September 8, 2025 • 30 mins
“As some Central PA counties rank among the highest number of human-trafficking offenses in the state, a local organization provides victims with all that is needed to help them survive and thrive.” http://www.peacepromise.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Selvia Moss. This is Insight, a presentation of
iHeartMedia where we really do care about our local communities
and all our listeners who live here. There is absolutely nothing,
nothing that makes me angrier than the issue that we're
going to talk about today. The manner in which the
perpetrators of this crime prey upon those who are especially vulnerable,
(00:22):
quite often many of them very young, is by gaining
their trust. The trauma that it presents to its victims
has long lasting and physical, mental, and emotional consequences, and
it can also and often leads to death. Commonly referred
to as modern day slavery, Human sexual trafficing is not new.
(00:44):
It's been around for hundreds of years. However, with the
advent of the Internet excuse me, the world of human
sexual trafficking has drastically changed. It's no longer necessary to
move exploited individuals to a specific physical location. Now, thanks
to bed streaming, a victim can remain in one location
and be exploited all around the world. I can't believe
(01:06):
that's horrible. But on the positive side, video streaming has
also helped law enforcement intervene in human sexual trafficking crime
by investigating these incidents and working to remove the victims.
Something extremely important that you should be aware of is
that Pennsylvania ranks ninth in the nation for the most
reported cases of human trafficking. Even more important for you
(01:30):
to know and to tell everyone you know, is that
this hidden and widespread problem has extended its tentacles here
in central Pennsylvania. In fact, Dauphin, York and Lancaster Counties
are among the ten top counties in the whole state
with the highest number of offenses filed against those committing
human sexual traffic trafficking. Out of all this shocking news
(01:53):
comes word about a local organization that for about seventeen
years has been saving and changing the lives of young
women in the Harrisburg area who had been victims of
human sexual trafficking and to provide us with a real
insight into the issue of human trafficking here in central
pa is a truly and I meet that from the
bottom of my heart is a truly remarkable woman. Is
the founder and executive director of the organization known as
(02:16):
Peace Promise. I got to tell you I came across
something that Patty her name is Patty Seaman, as I said,
She's got her own story to tell. I was looking
for some things that people expressed other than me about Patty,
and I came across this someone had written. Patty is
hands down one of the most incredible humans I've ever known.
(02:37):
She's worked as an advocate for an adopt or excuse me,
an advocate and an adoptive mom too many as they
journey out of sex work, sexual exploitation, addiction, and domestic violence.
She spent eight years volunteering for this nonprofit known as
Peace Promise before she was hired as its official executive director.
(02:58):
Patty's become the mother to those I've been motherless, a
fierce mama bear who's always ready to encourage and support
her girls through challenges and setbacks. But you don't need
to be one of Patty's girls to know how incredible
she is. Patty is one of those special people who
will offer support and understanding while also sharing wisdom and insight.
And you won't even know she's doing that, but she
(03:20):
always gives you the opportunity for your own freedom of choice.
I adore you, Patty, honest God. I met Patty I
know ten twelve years ago to a woman's conference and
a lady that was holding a mutual friends of ours
said to me, you got to meet Patty Seman. I said, well,
what does she do? She goes, oh, and she told me.
I said, where is she? Where is she? Because anybody
(03:41):
listens to this program knows anybody does anything to young
kids get out of my way. I don't care if
it doesn't have to be in my kids. I think
it's horrible. So I'm really anxious. A lot's been going on,
and I think the really coolest thing that's been going
on is I remember talking to you about and I've
talked to a lot of nonprofits. The number one thing
(04:02):
is the core of everything is volunteers. But you need money,
right and the best way to do is find a
way that you can create some sort of profit extension
of yourself. And like the Goodwill does with the stores.
Son of a gun. There she did it. So we're
going to talk about that. But first of all, I
want to get right to all this about human traffic,
(04:23):
and I understand it pulls in about ninety nine billion
dollars a year around the world. Unbelievable. We hear the
phrase and like some people, like I said last week
on my program. Some people think they know what the
answer is. Oh, well just to this, Well, it's not.
It's complicated, it's human, okay. But for those who don't
(04:45):
truly understand, how would you define sexual trafficking.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So there's a lot of people believe that there has
to be movement, right, that we have to be taking
somebody from one place to the next. That's actually not.
What trafficking is is when somebody else is profiting off
the sale of another sexuality, and that is typically done
through force, fraud, or corrosion. Okay. What we miss though,
(05:12):
is that this is such it becomes such a local problem.
So we've as a society, we've looked at like a
lot of other countries. We've seen that there's trafficking problems there.
But when we start looking locally, we start finding the
problem because the problem is buried in our local communities.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Why you see buried. I heard that before.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's buried because it is the family secret, it is
relationship secret, so it's it's undercover. People are missing it
because it doesn't look the way we're trained to believe
it should look. Right, we don't have victims coming and
asking for help because they don't know they're victims.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
We know what this si? What's his name? I say,
Dummer Epstein Case. I was thinking I heard different people say, well,
why don't these women speak out that this is going on? Idiot,
why don't you do some research and find out that
when women are raped into abuse, they very seldom report
it for a lot of different reasons. It messes you up,
(06:12):
and it's scary. That really upset me when I heard that.
You know, it's not simple, but go ahead. I'm sorry.
I didn't want to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So imagine that. Imagine how scary that is. But imagine
if it was your mom that introduced you into it, Like,
how do you how do you reconcile that? How do
you go and report? How do you go and say
my mom sold me to the landlord and that happens?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It's time. Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So that's we miss it a lot because it doesn't
look the way we think it should look.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And it's something if it's not someone that you know,
these these traffickers find a way to gain the trust,
correct of somebody who's already traumatized. Correct, That is so horrible.
So if like you were and I were talking a
little bit ago this whole thing. The majority of the
people are people, these kids. You know, how what percentage
(07:09):
did you tell me?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So trafficking in the United States, the most recent statistics
that I've seen is that thirty three percent are trafficked
by a caregiver or guardian, so parent, caregiver, guardian. Another
twenty eight percent have been trafficked or exploited by an
(07:32):
intimate partner. So that's sixty one percent right there, of
our reported trafficking cases in the United States that are
identifying that it's been somebody in their inner circle, somebody
who should be a place of safety for them, who
has actually been the one to exploit them in profit
off of them.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh, good god, it's unbelievable. You know, we talked about
young girls are young boys.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, but I do need to clarify that a lot
of who we are working with are now grown adults. Okay,
so most of the most of the women that we're
working with are most of them are over the age
of eighteen, but they've all been abused, or the majority
(08:18):
of them have been abused at a younger age and
they've been introduced into so most of them had some
type of traumatic childhood sexual abuse, and that set them
down the path and from there. You know, sometimes we
have we have a lot of parents who didn't they
missed the mark. Let's just say, they missed the mark
(08:40):
and raising their children and they allowed things to happen
or sadly, I have had a lot of mothers who
have decided that since they had gone this route of
you know, prostitution and stuff, that that would be a
good thing to introduce their daughters to.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I can't imagine anything like that, but I think one
of the points I want to make is it's just
like drug and alcohol abuse. It's a generational thing.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Correct, and they are very intertwined together.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh my god, my god. Well, when you meet the
girls that you do, are they well, let me ask
you this. Typically, and for a lot of the times,
they're a truck stop. So if I stop at a
truck stop and I how do I know a girl
is being she could possibly be traffick.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We're so we're not. We did start at the truck stops.
This promise is not currently doing a lot at the
truck stops. But one thing I can tell you is that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
They are well at any place.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Any place. It's really going to be hard to spot,
Like what does a trafficking victim look like unless they're
out there saying, hey, this is what's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, but these traffickers are they know how to result because.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They're praying, they're meeting them. They're not to you know,
they're they're spending a few weeks gaining their trust. They're
becoming the boyfriend. That's how they're doing it. They're you know,
most of the traffickers are very, very good with words,
they're very cunning, they're very they're they're able to manipulate,
(10:18):
they're able to and then there's some that just use threats,
you know, that's all it takes is threaten, threaten your family,
threaten your children. But then there's also a lot of
exploitation that's not fitting those definitions of having a pimper
or trafficker. There's a lot of So we work with
(10:39):
anybody who's been exploited in the commercial sex industry because
remember those indicat those those two categories I gave you
about the caretaker and the intimate partner. That's really hard
to identify necessarily that you're a victim of trafficking, and
nobody wants to be a victim. However, we work with
anybody who's been exploited, So that could be a personal
choice to go work in a club setting, sell videos
(11:03):
or anything like that, but we know that there's still
there's still something there that caused pain, sure, and that
normally goes back to abuse or neglect as a child,
and so we're combating that constantly.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's horrible. Where I remember you saying that the places
that you went you can try to get the provide
some sort of trust. Yeah, after I mean, how do
you transfer that trust from a traffic or your norm
I'm saying, why would they trust you? In other words,
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It takes consistency. So I can tell you now some
of them will try to cling to us very quickly
because they want that person to be responsible for them,
because they're used to having somebody else making their decisions
and stuff like that. That's hard because we've got to
have boundaries that say, you know what, Yes, I care
(11:56):
about you, but we need to be independent right code.
But we build that trust over time, we teach them
it takes time to build safe relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, let's let me ask you about that, and that
that is what you do you different. There's different aspects
of what you do. Say you come across this young girl,
she's willing, do you well before we get that at
if we should, If we suspect that the young girl's
being traffick, do we call you? Do we call our
local cops? Do we call the state polpet.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That somebody is being trafficked? There is the national Trafficking
Hotline number. However, I am going to say that in
Dolphin County we should be calling We should be calling
nine one one, or we should be calling in. There
is a task force and both Dolphin and Cumberland County
there are task force and that is what I recommend
(12:47):
is that we call into our local task force. Good okay,
because that way they're able to receive the information and
do something.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, Now back to what we were talking about. Okay,
you have this young lady and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So we have well where that's where what we're doing
comes into play. Peace Promise. Knew that we needed something different,
We needed to answer the call. Our focus is really
on that aftercare and restoration. So that means that we
meet somebody, we build that trust with them, and that
could be years or it could be months, but we
(13:22):
build that trust and we want to give them opportunities.
We realized very very early on that a lot of
the women we work with actually are leaders. They've just
never had the self. Yes, they've never had the opportunity,
they've never seen themselves that way.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
No, it's funny you should say that, because the programs
that I've done with domestic violence and usually these women
are not these weak little women. These women are lawyers
and doctors and they're being abused and knocked down. And
people say, you're a doctor, what's the matter with you? Well,
(14:01):
guess what. Those are the women that can eat. And
I never understood how they can be among the top
that are that are abused. Why did they take it?
They're educated, but you know what it's not has nothing
to do with education, right, right, So.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
We get this awesome opportunity to walk beside them and
to journey life with them. But we knew that, you know,
we have these leaders, but we were watching them struggle
in so many different areas of life and it wasn't
their fault. See, when you've grown up with a deficit,
maybe it was a love deficit, maybe it was maybe
(14:37):
it was a deficit in life skills. Maybe it was
an educational deficit. Whatever that deficit is, you're going to struggle.
And then when you add pain to that, and you
add trauma, because they've all experienced trauma right now. Sure
you've got areas of their brain that's frozen that didn't
learn basic skills, or maybe did learn basic skills but
didn't learn how to regulate emotionally in things. So that's
(15:01):
where this continuum of care that surrounds our girls comes in.
But we also need to take care of their basic needs. Right,
So to take care of your basic needs, everybody believes
the first thing we need to do is housing. That
is crucial. Yes, people need stability in housing, but that
wasn't what we felt called to. We knew that there
was another step to maintain your housing. You need to
(15:23):
have employment in life skills, right right, So we came
at this from a different approach. Our approach was that
Peace Promise. Our nonprofit has opened two for profit businesses.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Tell me, count me, Okay, I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
We have soaps by Survivors, which was started by a
survivor in twenty fifteen actually, and they make lip balms,
body butters. We've got card diffusers, We've got soap, We've
got amazing products. And then we also opened good Ground
(15:56):
Coffee Shop in camp Hill's cool. So we have this
ability to have workplaces that are set up specifically to
try to and we're not always perfect, but to try
to overcome some of the trauma that our survivors have experience,
to be a safe place for them to come to
work where they also get to have, you know, relationships
(16:21):
that they're building with other people that they may not
have built before. We have our volunteers come in. There's
so many different areas where people can volunteer with us
now with the coffee shop and soaps, but then we
also as part of their employment with us, they do groups.
So they do groups normally it's twice a week. We
(16:42):
get three to four life skills in a month, and
those life skills can be anywhere from something really heavy,
like you know, we've done interacting with law enforcement. That's
one of my favorites because a lot of our because
a lot of our girls are afraid of law enforcement,
they haven't had good interaction with them, or they've been
programmed to believe that the law enforcement the judicial system
(17:05):
is out to get them. So I have a passion
to teach them that that's not the case, that there's
law enforcement out there that wants to help them, that
the judicial system wants to help them. So I bring
in people to build relationship with them so that they
get to see. When you get to see the police
officer and his flip flops with his kids, he's no
(17:26):
longer he becomes a friend, right, And then you have
a resource and we do things like they've set up
medical power of attorneys, They've they've gone through what a
sexual assault forensic exam looks like in he is one
of their friends ever needs to do it. But then
we also do things like crocheting and learning how to
bake cookies and going on trips with our kids and
(17:51):
all kinds of fun things so that they're getting to
experience the things they missed out on a lot of
times in their childhood. And then we have a second
group every week that that's our core groups, where we
really get into those relational hurts, the relational things that
have happened to us, where we talk about what boundaries
look like, what healthy connections and communication looks like. We've
(18:13):
done the book Safe People, where we've looked at what
healthy relationships should look like. So we begin to see
what a healthy relationship looks like, and that's how we
combat that person from being vulnerable. Then to the next
person who comes around looking for them. The next person
who comes around looking for that person who had vulnerabilities
(18:34):
is going to find somebody who's now a powerful person
who's removed their vulnerabilities and is no longer going to go,
no longer going to settle for anything else in her life.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
We know you don't have to be someone who's been
sexually trafficked or abused to go. Seriously, how many of
you girlfriends, my girlfriends, people we know have those same issues?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But the thing is is when you've been.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Exploited, yeah, and that's a totally I've.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Also been isolated, you don't have those relationships.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
See, you and I can walk in a room, we
have a group of friends. We can walk in a
room and say, oh, this just happened with my house
and the plumbing is the all screwed up, and I
don't I don't even know who to call. And what's
going to happen is somebody in that room's going to go, oh,
I have a great plumber.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Names blah blah blahyah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
When you don't have those people, you're on your own
in life.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And they they are looking for it's not a plumber,
it's a life skill, it's an emotional.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It's somebody to show up for you. You know, years
ago when this all started, I'm a Christian. I don't
hide that from anybody. I'm a pastor also, and when
I started all this, you know, it was kind of like,
I don't know what we're doing. And we would go
into so many settings and people would say what are
we going to do and I'd say, I don't know
what we're going to do. That's because I was giving
(19:48):
one assignment and one assignment only, and that was to
show up. God told me exactly who I'm supposed to
show up for, and I show up and He does
the rest. And there's amazing things happening. We are watching
people walk into freedom that they've never experienced before. They're
setting themselves free from bad thought processes, from believing that
(20:09):
they can't be something other than who they currently are.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, you're reprogramming them, is what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And the amazing thing is is that they you know,
they are there, but they're not required to do the groups.
They get to choose to do the groups with us.
They actually get a bonus for doing those groups with us.
That brings them up to a livable wage. We want
our staff to be at a livable wage because that's
the other problem that we find is a lack of education,
(20:37):
the lack of the life skills, the lack of job experience.
All those things add up to a poor resume, and
that poor resume means a lower pay rate. So we
want to ensure that they're getting a good pay rate.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Well see that's what I don't think people realize. I
mean we've just mentioned this, but those girls are required
to work at the at the coffee shop. Right, Oh, well,
they're not required.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's a choice to work there.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, I mean just like, yo, yeah, that is so cool.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They're back in the kitchen making they're making the sandwiches,
they're they're making your coffee. You know, we have survivor
staff and non survivor staff. We don't identify between them
because they're all staff. Right, So yeah we have it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Tell us where it's located. I was checking that out
all the things you mentioned about the soaps and everything.
You can order that stuff online, right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You can order all of our products online. You can
buy all of the soap products inside of Soap Spy
or inside of Good Ground Coffee. Our location is two
forty four South seventeenth Street in camp Hill.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What's that close to It's close to Carns.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Oh, okay, the West Shore Plaza. It's right behind the
West Shore Plaza.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And the menu is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, we just started smoothies.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Oh my gosh, we love started smoothie.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah. I got to get over there. Yeah, next time.
One of my friends says, where we going for lunch?
Follow me? Well, you know what, over the years, let
me ask you this. That's tough stuff you do. That's
heartbreaking stuff you do.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
How do you keep it together? Well?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I have amazing support team. I have a husband that
has the best sense of humor and he has my
back no matter what. God has always been good to me,
and I have the ability to go out into nature
and to sit and that's what I need most of
the time. It is hard stuff that I need, but
(22:31):
it's not that I do. But it's not sometimes it's
not even stuff that needs to be shared with others.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Oh, I understand. I know you're saying, of course, well,
over the years, it's been difficult. How do you how
do you define the success of your organization?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's two parts, well three god, yea God. First, we
have an amazing, committed team of leader.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
No what I'm Oh, maybe I missed? Are you misunderstood meybe?
It was my fault the way I phrased it. Accountability
to yourself. How do you know that you've been successful
by the number of the girls that come through there
and come out the other end, or successfully or what?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Success is hard to gauge in this, honestly, because but
I would say we have over forty women that have
successfully exited the commercial sex industry with some level with
assistance from us. But how I viewed the success as
watching the individual. When I got to be part of
a wedding in twenty twenty three in Tulu, Mexico, and
(23:42):
I was able to present them with a family Bible,
it was the most beautiful experience. And that girl everybody
in this area had written her off. She was a
heroin addict. She was a known local prostitute. She was
trafficked across our country, and she had two sisters that
were murdered here in Harrisburg, and she was just set
(24:06):
up for failure in life. And when I tell you
that her and her husband are running two barbershops, they
have two amazing children. I got to be present for
the birth of one of them, and watching her smile,
watching her get in a huge pickup truck and drive
(24:27):
me from the airport when she didn't think she could
ever have a driver's license.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
That's how you measure success. Oh my god, the lives.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
When you when you get to see somebody get their ged,
get to be a mom, those things, those are success.
That's how I measure success is watching their lives change.
I have never been so happy for things that don't
even affect me as I have been in this job.
(24:55):
I watch people get blessings and.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I can imagine jump upside.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
One of our girls cars needed repaired earlier this year
and it was going to be a big bill. I
was screaming at the top of my lungs when a
text message came through that somebody was going to cover
that bill in full. It had nothing to do with me,
but I was so happy. That's how you measure success.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's right, absolutely, And it's all about faith. That's what
it's all about people. You're available to talk to people,
aren't you.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I am.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I'm sure you've talked a lot of organizations. You got
some incredible partners. How do people support you? What do
you need?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
What do we need? Well, obviously we need money. We
always need money. Our dreams are not to stop where
we are. We are still in the middle of our
capital campaign to pay off our building. We want to
be mortgage free on that space so that we can
start to pursue other dreams. We have some ideas the
things we'd like to do in the future, providing some
(25:57):
offset for housing for our girls and things like that.
So we always need financial donations. But we also need
people with skill sets that they want to bring to
the table. Give me example where you fromm We need
a network of attorneys for different types of cases, right,
We need estate planning attorneys, we need family law attorneys.
We need we need people who come in and teach
(26:20):
life skills. We have different I need some doctors to
teach on some different things. So, but we also need
some moms to come in and teach us how to
take care of our kids. Sometimes you know, there's always
needs for volunteers to come in, plug in with us,
get to know us, get to know our survivors. We
have other ways to volunteer that are a lot less dramatic,
(26:45):
Like we be part of our five K coming up
in October. We have our five K October fourth sign up.
Get a team and be part of it. You can
walk like I will, or you can run like I won't.
But there's still lots of things you can do in
lots of ways you can get involved. Nobody is outside
of being able to help My eighty three year old mother.
(27:09):
Oh she meets, she tells me, tell the story.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
My mom was moving here. She decided at eighty one
years old that she was going to move to Harrisburg.
And I had just finished chemo therapy. I was in
the middle of the woods with my husband down in
Stony Creek and we were fishing, and I was in
camouflage and everything, and there was these two women and
we normally don't run into a lot of people, and
(27:34):
they asked us if we could help show them where
the path was to get to the main trail. So,
of course, being pastors, we said, let us lead you
to the path, and we started showing them the way.
About halfway up, I was out of breath because of
finishing chemo, so my husband just sat down and we
told the ladies they could go around us because I was,
you know, done with chemo. And she said, oh, I
(27:55):
told you so to her friend, and her friends said,
you can't just assume every bald woman. I said, well,
in this case, you can. By the time we got
to the top, we're laughing and joking and we're talking
about the fact that the only thing I need now
is a house for my mom to move here, but
there was no way we were going to find one
in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But you didn't tell about the joypart.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Well, oh well yeah, when my mom said she was
moving here, she kept saying that we need joy, we
need joy, we need joy. Well, the person I met
in the middle of the woods was Joy Daniels.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And she found my mama house.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Isn't that awesome?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And her office has been a supporter of peace Promise
ever since.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Oh, she's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yes, Patty, you've got to wrap things up. Anybody wants
to get in touch with you, buy the stuff. How
do they get a hold of you? First of all,
what give us your web address?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You're going to go to www dot peacepromise dot org.
You can register for our five K on there. You
can send a volunteer request or you can request survivor
support on there.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And I also want to mention the National Human Trafficking
Hotline is one eight eight. I would let me do
that again one eight eight eight three seven three seven
eight eight eight or text help to two three three
seven three three. Patti Seemen, Executive director of Peace Promise.
(29:14):
I can't ever thank you enough for all the wonderful
things that you do. You're amazing. I'm Sylvia Moss. This
has been insight. Don't forget that. Insight airs on our
ten iheartstations or anytime on your favorite podcast step. Thanks
so much for listening to se you next week
Hi, I'm Selvia Moss. This is Insight, a presentation of
iHeartMedia where we really do care about our local communities
and all our listeners who live here. There is absolutely nothing,
nothing that makes me angrier than the issue that we're
going to talk about today. The manner in which the
perpetrators of this crime prey upon those who are especially vulnerable,
(00:22):
quite often many of them very young, is by gaining
their trust. The trauma that it presents to its victims
has long lasting and physical, mental, and emotional consequences, and
it can also and often leads to death. Commonly referred
to as modern day slavery, Human sexual trafficing is not new.
(00:44):
It's been around for hundreds of years. However, with the
advent of the Internet excuse me, the world of human
sexual trafficking has drastically changed. It's no longer necessary to
move exploited individuals to a specific physical location. Now, thanks
to bed streaming, a victim can remain in one location
and be exploited all around the world. I can't believe
(01:06):
that's horrible. But on the positive side, video streaming has
also helped law enforcement intervene in human sexual trafficking crime
by investigating these incidents and working to remove the victims.
Something extremely important that you should be aware of is
that Pennsylvania ranks ninth in the nation for the most
reported cases of human trafficking. Even more important for you
(01:30):
to know and to tell everyone you know, is that
this hidden and widespread problem has extended its tentacles here
in central Pennsylvania. In fact, Dauphin, York and Lancaster Counties
are among the ten top counties in the whole state
with the highest number of offenses filed against those committing
human sexual traffic trafficking. Out of all this shocking news
(01:53):
comes word about a local organization that for about seventeen
years has been saving and changing the lives of young
women in the Harrisburg area who had been victims of
human sexual trafficking and to provide us with a real
insight into the issue of human trafficking here in central
pa is a truly and I meet that from the
bottom of my heart is a truly remarkable woman. Is
the founder and executive director of the organization known as
(02:16):
Peace Promise. I got to tell you I came across
something that Patty her name is Patty Seaman, as I said,
She's got her own story to tell. I was looking
for some things that people expressed other than me about Patty,
and I came across this someone had written. Patty is
hands down one of the most incredible humans I've ever known.
(02:37):
She's worked as an advocate for an adopt or excuse me,
an advocate and an adoptive mom too many as they
journey out of sex work, sexual exploitation, addiction, and domestic violence.
She spent eight years volunteering for this nonprofit known as
Peace Promise before she was hired as its official executive director.
(02:58):
Patty's become the mother to those I've been motherless, a
fierce mama bear who's always ready to encourage and support
her girls through challenges and setbacks. But you don't need
to be one of Patty's girls to know how incredible
she is. Patty is one of those special people who
will offer support and understanding while also sharing wisdom and insight.
And you won't even know she's doing that, but she
(03:20):
always gives you the opportunity for your own freedom of choice.
I adore you, Patty, honest God. I met Patty I
know ten twelve years ago to a woman's conference and
a lady that was holding a mutual friends of ours
said to me, you got to meet Patty Seman. I said, well,
what does she do? She goes, oh, and she told me.
I said, where is she? Where is she? Because anybody
(03:41):
listens to this program knows anybody does anything to young
kids get out of my way. I don't care if
it doesn't have to be in my kids. I think
it's horrible. So I'm really anxious. A lot's been going on,
and I think the really coolest thing that's been going
on is I remember talking to you about and I've
talked to a lot of nonprofits. The number one thing
(04:02):
is the core of everything is volunteers. But you need money,
right and the best way to do is find a
way that you can create some sort of profit extension
of yourself. And like the Goodwill does with the stores.
Son of a gun. There she did it. So we're
going to talk about that. But first of all, I
want to get right to all this about human traffic,
(04:23):
and I understand it pulls in about ninety nine billion
dollars a year around the world. Unbelievable. We hear the
phrase and like some people, like I said last week
on my program. Some people think they know what the
answer is. Oh, well just to this, Well, it's not.
It's complicated, it's human, okay. But for those who don't
(04:45):
truly understand, how would you define sexual trafficking.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So there's a lot of people believe that there has
to be movement, right, that we have to be taking
somebody from one place to the next. That's actually not.
What trafficking is is when somebody else is profiting off
the sale of another sexuality, and that is typically done
through force, fraud, or corrosion. Okay. What we miss though,
(05:12):
is that this is such it becomes such a local problem.
So we've as a society, we've looked at like a
lot of other countries. We've seen that there's trafficking problems there.
But when we start looking locally, we start finding the
problem because the problem is buried in our local communities.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Why you see buried. I heard that before.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's buried because it is the family secret, it is
relationship secret, so it's it's undercover. People are missing it
because it doesn't look the way we're trained to believe
it should look. Right, we don't have victims coming and
asking for help because they don't know they're victims.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
We know what this si? What's his name? I say,
Dummer Epstein Case. I was thinking I heard different people say, well,
why don't these women speak out that this is going on? Idiot,
why don't you do some research and find out that
when women are raped into abuse, they very seldom report
it for a lot of different reasons. It messes you up,
(06:12):
and it's scary. That really upset me when I heard that.
You know, it's not simple, but go ahead. I'm sorry.
I didn't want to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So imagine that. Imagine how scary that is. But imagine
if it was your mom that introduced you into it, Like,
how do you how do you reconcile that? How do
you go and report? How do you go and say
my mom sold me to the landlord and that happens?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It's time. Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So that's we miss it a lot because it doesn't
look the way we think it should look.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And it's something if it's not someone that you know,
these these traffickers find a way to gain the trust,
correct of somebody who's already traumatized. Correct, That is so horrible.
So if like you were and I were talking a
little bit ago this whole thing. The majority of the
people are people, these kids. You know, how what percentage
(07:09):
did you tell me?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So trafficking in the United States, the most recent statistics
that I've seen is that thirty three percent are trafficked
by a caregiver or guardian, so parent, caregiver, guardian. Another
twenty eight percent have been trafficked or exploited by an
(07:32):
intimate partner. So that's sixty one percent right there, of
our reported trafficking cases in the United States that are
identifying that it's been somebody in their inner circle, somebody
who should be a place of safety for them, who
has actually been the one to exploit them in profit
off of them.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh, good god, it's unbelievable. You know, we talked about
young girls are young boys.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, but I do need to clarify that a lot
of who we are working with are now grown adults. Okay,
so most of the most of the women that we're
working with are most of them are over the age
of eighteen, but they've all been abused, or the majority
(08:18):
of them have been abused at a younger age and
they've been introduced into so most of them had some
type of traumatic childhood sexual abuse, and that set them
down the path and from there. You know, sometimes we
have we have a lot of parents who didn't they
missed the mark. Let's just say, they missed the mark
(08:40):
and raising their children and they allowed things to happen
or sadly, I have had a lot of mothers who
have decided that since they had gone this route of
you know, prostitution and stuff, that that would be a
good thing to introduce their daughters to.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I can't imagine anything like that, but I think one
of the points I want to make is it's just
like drug and alcohol abuse. It's a generational thing.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Correct, and they are very intertwined together.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh my god, my god. Well, when you meet the
girls that you do, are they well, let me ask
you this. Typically, and for a lot of the times,
they're a truck stop. So if I stop at a
truck stop and I how do I know a girl
is being she could possibly be traffick.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We're so we're not. We did start at the truck stops.
This promise is not currently doing a lot at the
truck stops. But one thing I can tell you is that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
They are well at any place.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Any place. It's really going to be hard to spot,
Like what does a trafficking victim look like unless they're
out there saying, hey, this is what's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, but these traffickers are they know how to result because.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They're praying, they're meeting them. They're not to you know,
they're they're spending a few weeks gaining their trust. They're
becoming the boyfriend. That's how they're doing it. They're you know,
most of the traffickers are very, very good with words,
they're very cunning, they're very they're they're able to manipulate,
(10:18):
they're able to and then there's some that just use threats,
you know, that's all it takes is threaten, threaten your family,
threaten your children. But then there's also a lot of
exploitation that's not fitting those definitions of having a pimper
or trafficker. There's a lot of So we work with
(10:39):
anybody who's been exploited in the commercial sex industry because
remember those indicat those those two categories I gave you
about the caretaker and the intimate partner. That's really hard
to identify necessarily that you're a victim of trafficking, and
nobody wants to be a victim. However, we work with
anybody who's been exploited, So that could be a personal
choice to go work in a club setting, sell videos
(11:03):
or anything like that, but we know that there's still
there's still something there that caused pain, sure, and that
normally goes back to abuse or neglect as a child,
and so we're combating that constantly.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's horrible. Where I remember you saying that the places
that you went you can try to get the provide
some sort of trust. Yeah, after I mean, how do
you transfer that trust from a traffic or your norm
I'm saying, why would they trust you? In other words,
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It takes consistency. So I can tell you now some
of them will try to cling to us very quickly
because they want that person to be responsible for them,
because they're used to having somebody else making their decisions
and stuff like that. That's hard because we've got to
have boundaries that say, you know what, Yes, I care
(11:56):
about you, but we need to be independent right code.
But we build that trust over time, we teach them
it takes time to build safe relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, let's let me ask you about that, and that
that is what you do you different. There's different aspects
of what you do. Say you come across this young girl,
she's willing, do you well before we get that at
if we should, If we suspect that the young girl's
being traffick, do we call you? Do we call our
local cops? Do we call the state polpet.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That somebody is being trafficked? There is the national Trafficking
Hotline number. However, I am going to say that in
Dolphin County we should be calling We should be calling
nine one one, or we should be calling in. There
is a task force and both Dolphin and Cumberland County
there are task force and that is what I recommend
(12:47):
is that we call into our local task force. Good okay,
because that way they're able to receive the information and
do something.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, Now back to what we were talking about. Okay,
you have this young lady and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So we have well where that's where what we're doing
comes into play. Peace Promise. Knew that we needed something different,
We needed to answer the call. Our focus is really
on that aftercare and restoration. So that means that we
meet somebody, we build that trust with them, and that
could be years or it could be months, but we
(13:22):
build that trust and we want to give them opportunities.
We realized very very early on that a lot of
the women we work with actually are leaders. They've just
never had the self. Yes, they've never had the opportunity,
they've never seen themselves that way.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
No, it's funny you should say that, because the programs
that I've done with domestic violence and usually these women
are not these weak little women. These women are lawyers
and doctors and they're being abused and knocked down. And
people say, you're a doctor, what's the matter with you? Well,
(14:01):
guess what. Those are the women that can eat. And
I never understood how they can be among the top
that are that are abused. Why did they take it?
They're educated, but you know what it's not has nothing
to do with education, right, right, So.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
We get this awesome opportunity to walk beside them and
to journey life with them. But we knew that, you know,
we have these leaders, but we were watching them struggle
in so many different areas of life and it wasn't
their fault. See, when you've grown up with a deficit,
maybe it was a love deficit, maybe it was maybe
(14:37):
it was a deficit in life skills. Maybe it was
an educational deficit. Whatever that deficit is, you're going to struggle.
And then when you add pain to that, and you
add trauma, because they've all experienced trauma right now. Sure
you've got areas of their brain that's frozen that didn't
learn basic skills, or maybe did learn basic skills but
didn't learn how to regulate emotionally in things. So that's
(15:01):
where this continuum of care that surrounds our girls comes in.
But we also need to take care of their basic needs. Right,
So to take care of your basic needs, everybody believes
the first thing we need to do is housing. That
is crucial. Yes, people need stability in housing, but that
wasn't what we felt called to. We knew that there
was another step to maintain your housing. You need to
(15:23):
have employment in life skills, right right, So we came
at this from a different approach. Our approach was that
Peace Promise. Our nonprofit has opened two for profit businesses.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Tell me, count me, Okay, I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
We have soaps by Survivors, which was started by a
survivor in twenty fifteen actually, and they make lip balms,
body butters. We've got card diffusers, We've got soap, We've
got amazing products. And then we also opened good Ground
(15:56):
Coffee Shop in camp Hill's cool. So we have this
ability to have workplaces that are set up specifically to
try to and we're not always perfect, but to try
to overcome some of the trauma that our survivors have experience,
to be a safe place for them to come to
work where they also get to have, you know, relationships
(16:21):
that they're building with other people that they may not
have built before. We have our volunteers come in. There's
so many different areas where people can volunteer with us
now with the coffee shop and soaps, but then we
also as part of their employment with us, they do groups.
So they do groups normally it's twice a week. We
(16:42):
get three to four life skills in a month, and
those life skills can be anywhere from something really heavy,
like you know, we've done interacting with law enforcement. That's
one of my favorites because a lot of our because
a lot of our girls are afraid of law enforcement,
they haven't had good interaction with them, or they've been
programmed to believe that the law enforcement the judicial system
(17:05):
is out to get them. So I have a passion
to teach them that that's not the case, that there's
law enforcement out there that wants to help them, that
the judicial system wants to help them. So I bring
in people to build relationship with them so that they
get to see. When you get to see the police
officer and his flip flops with his kids, he's no
(17:26):
longer he becomes a friend, right, And then you have
a resource and we do things like they've set up
medical power of attorneys, They've they've gone through what a
sexual assault forensic exam looks like in he is one
of their friends ever needs to do it. But then
we also do things like crocheting and learning how to
bake cookies and going on trips with our kids and
(17:51):
all kinds of fun things so that they're getting to
experience the things they missed out on a lot of
times in their childhood. And then we have a second
group every week that that's our core groups, where we
really get into those relational hurts, the relational things that
have happened to us, where we talk about what boundaries
look like, what healthy connections and communication looks like. We've
(18:13):
done the book Safe People, where we've looked at what
healthy relationships should look like. So we begin to see
what a healthy relationship looks like, and that's how we
combat that person from being vulnerable. Then to the next
person who comes around looking for them. The next person
who comes around looking for that person who had vulnerabilities
(18:34):
is going to find somebody who's now a powerful person
who's removed their vulnerabilities and is no longer going to go,
no longer going to settle for anything else in her life.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
We know you don't have to be someone who's been
sexually trafficked or abused to go. Seriously, how many of
you girlfriends, my girlfriends, people we know have those same issues?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But the thing is is when you've been.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Exploited, yeah, and that's a totally I've.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Also been isolated, you don't have those relationships.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
See, you and I can walk in a room, we
have a group of friends. We can walk in a
room and say, oh, this just happened with my house
and the plumbing is the all screwed up, and I
don't I don't even know who to call. And what's
going to happen is somebody in that room's going to go, oh,
I have a great plumber.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Names blah blah blahyah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
When you don't have those people, you're on your own
in life.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And they they are looking for it's not a plumber,
it's a life skill, it's an emotional.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It's somebody to show up for you. You know, years
ago when this all started, I'm a Christian. I don't
hide that from anybody. I'm a pastor also, and when
I started all this, you know, it was kind of like,
I don't know what we're doing. And we would go
into so many settings and people would say what are
we going to do and I'd say, I don't know
what we're going to do. That's because I was giving
(19:48):
one assignment and one assignment only, and that was to
show up. God told me exactly who I'm supposed to
show up for, and I show up and He does
the rest. And there's amazing things happening. We are watching
people walk into freedom that they've never experienced before. They're
setting themselves free from bad thought processes, from believing that
(20:09):
they can't be something other than who they currently are.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, you're reprogramming them, is what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And the amazing thing is is that they you know,
they are there, but they're not required to do the groups.
They get to choose to do the groups with us.
They actually get a bonus for doing those groups with us.
That brings them up to a livable wage. We want
our staff to be at a livable wage because that's
the other problem that we find is a lack of education,
(20:37):
the lack of the life skills, the lack of job experience.
All those things add up to a poor resume, and
that poor resume means a lower pay rate. So we
want to ensure that they're getting a good pay rate.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Well see that's what I don't think people realize. I
mean we've just mentioned this, but those girls are required
to work at the at the coffee shop. Right, Oh, well,
they're not required.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's a choice to work there.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, I mean just like, yo, yeah, that is so cool.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They're back in the kitchen making they're making the sandwiches,
they're they're making your coffee. You know, we have survivor
staff and non survivor staff. We don't identify between them
because they're all staff. Right, So yeah we have it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Tell us where it's located. I was checking that out
all the things you mentioned about the soaps and everything.
You can order that stuff online, right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You can order all of our products online. You can
buy all of the soap products inside of Soap Spy
or inside of Good Ground Coffee. Our location is two
forty four South seventeenth Street in camp Hill.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What's that close to It's close to Carns.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Oh, okay, the West Shore Plaza. It's right behind the
West Shore Plaza.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And the menu is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, we just started smoothies.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Oh my gosh, we love started smoothie.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah. I got to get over there. Yeah, next time.
One of my friends says, where we going for lunch?
Follow me? Well, you know what, over the years, let
me ask you this. That's tough stuff you do. That's
heartbreaking stuff you do.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
How do you keep it together? Well?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I have amazing support team. I have a husband that
has the best sense of humor and he has my
back no matter what. God has always been good to me,
and I have the ability to go out into nature
and to sit and that's what I need most of
the time. It is hard stuff that I need, but
(22:31):
it's not that I do. But it's not sometimes it's
not even stuff that needs to be shared with others.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Oh, I understand. I know you're saying, of course, well,
over the years, it's been difficult. How do you how
do you define the success of your organization?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's two parts, well three god, yea God. First, we
have an amazing, committed team of leader.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
No what I'm Oh, maybe I missed? Are you misunderstood meybe?
It was my fault the way I phrased it. Accountability
to yourself. How do you know that you've been successful
by the number of the girls that come through there
and come out the other end, or successfully or what?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Success is hard to gauge in this, honestly, because but
I would say we have over forty women that have
successfully exited the commercial sex industry with some level with
assistance from us. But how I viewed the success as
watching the individual. When I got to be part of
a wedding in twenty twenty three in Tulu, Mexico, and
(23:42):
I was able to present them with a family Bible,
it was the most beautiful experience. And that girl everybody
in this area had written her off. She was a
heroin addict. She was a known local prostitute. She was
trafficked across our country, and she had two sisters that
were murdered here in Harrisburg, and she was just set
(24:06):
up for failure in life. And when I tell you
that her and her husband are running two barbershops, they
have two amazing children. I got to be present for
the birth of one of them, and watching her smile,
watching her get in a huge pickup truck and drive
(24:27):
me from the airport when she didn't think she could
ever have a driver's license.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
That's how you measure success. Oh my god, the lives.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
When you when you get to see somebody get their ged,
get to be a mom, those things, those are success.
That's how I measure success is watching their lives change.
I have never been so happy for things that don't
even affect me as I have been in this job.
(24:55):
I watch people get blessings and.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I can imagine jump upside.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
One of our girls cars needed repaired earlier this year
and it was going to be a big bill. I
was screaming at the top of my lungs when a
text message came through that somebody was going to cover
that bill in full. It had nothing to do with me,
but I was so happy. That's how you measure success.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's right, absolutely, And it's all about faith. That's what
it's all about people. You're available to talk to people,
aren't you.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I am.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I'm sure you've talked a lot of organizations. You got
some incredible partners. How do people support you? What do
you need?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
What do we need? Well, obviously we need money. We
always need money. Our dreams are not to stop where
we are. We are still in the middle of our
capital campaign to pay off our building. We want to
be mortgage free on that space so that we can
start to pursue other dreams. We have some ideas the
things we'd like to do in the future, providing some
(25:57):
offset for housing for our girls and things like that.
So we always need financial donations. But we also need
people with skill sets that they want to bring to
the table. Give me example where you fromm We need
a network of attorneys for different types of cases, right,
We need estate planning attorneys, we need family law attorneys.
We need we need people who come in and teach
(26:20):
life skills. We have different I need some doctors to
teach on some different things. So, but we also need
some moms to come in and teach us how to
take care of our kids. Sometimes you know, there's always
needs for volunteers to come in, plug in with us,
get to know us, get to know our survivors. We
have other ways to volunteer that are a lot less dramatic,
(26:45):
Like we be part of our five K coming up
in October. We have our five K October fourth sign up.
Get a team and be part of it. You can
walk like I will, or you can run like I won't.
But there's still lots of things you can do in
lots of ways you can get involved. Nobody is outside
of being able to help My eighty three year old mother.
(27:09):
Oh she meets, she tells me, tell the story.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
My mom was moving here. She decided at eighty one
years old that she was going to move to Harrisburg.
And I had just finished chemo therapy. I was in
the middle of the woods with my husband down in
Stony Creek and we were fishing, and I was in
camouflage and everything, and there was these two women and
we normally don't run into a lot of people, and
(27:34):
they asked us if we could help show them where
the path was to get to the main trail. So,
of course, being pastors, we said, let us lead you
to the path, and we started showing them the way.
About halfway up, I was out of breath because of
finishing chemo, so my husband just sat down and we
told the ladies they could go around us because I was,
you know, done with chemo. And she said, oh, I
(27:55):
told you so to her friend, and her friends said,
you can't just assume every bald woman. I said, well,
in this case, you can. By the time we got
to the top, we're laughing and joking and we're talking
about the fact that the only thing I need now
is a house for my mom to move here, but
there was no way we were going to find one
in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But you didn't tell about the joypart.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Well, oh well yeah, when my mom said she was
moving here, she kept saying that we need joy, we
need joy, we need joy. Well, the person I met
in the middle of the woods was Joy Daniels.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And she found my mama house.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Isn't that awesome?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And her office has been a supporter of peace Promise
ever since.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Oh, she's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yes, Patty, you've got to wrap things up. Anybody wants
to get in touch with you, buy the stuff. How
do they get a hold of you? First of all,
what give us your web address?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You're going to go to www dot peacepromise dot org.
You can register for our five K on there. You
can send a volunteer request or you can request survivor
support on there.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And I also want to mention the National Human Trafficking
Hotline is one eight eight. I would let me do
that again one eight eight eight three seven three seven
eight eight eight or text help to two three three
seven three three. Patti Seemen, Executive director of Peace Promise.
(29:14):
I can't ever thank you enough for all the wonderful
things that you do. You're amazing. I'm Sylvia Moss. This
has been insight. Don't forget that. Insight airs on our
ten iheartstations or anytime on your favorite podcast step. Thanks
so much for listening to se you next week
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