Mario chats with filmmaker & producer Curtis Scoon about his documentary Black, White, & Blue, social media, race relations, politics, and more in this fascinating and informative episode of LTM.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, excited for this episode of listen to Mario
Mario Lopez here. And this guy I feel is the
most fascinating follow on Twitter, and I've been following him
for a while and he's smart and provocative, polarizing for
some people, but really really fascinating as a person with
his backstory and where he is today, Mr Curtis Schoon.
(00:20):
They describe him as the man who is doing for
the black gangster what Mortin Scorsese did for the Mafia,
catapulting it into popular cultures. So let's get into it.
Maria Curtis Schoon, How are you, sir? I'm good. How
are you? Um? Well, I'm very excited to talk to
you because I've been following you on Twitter now for
(00:42):
at least a few years, and I think you're the
most fascinating follow on Twitter. Incredibly articulate and intelligent and
an independent thinker that's not afraid to touch on sensitive
or what people can perceive as sensitive controversial subjects. And
you always have such a great response to people who
(01:03):
have a difference of opinion, and you you you choose
to engage, which I like, and that's what I think
is wrong, quite frankly, with with the dialogue in this
country is you're getting your certain thought bubbles and you
only talk to people who share the same view as
opposed to That's one of the downfalls I think of
social media because you can segregate yourself that way, as
(01:24):
opposed to actually creating a dialogue, being open to diversity
of thought, learning something and growing as a people. Was
so but before so giving you props there. Um, Yeah,
it's funny because you've been described as the dos Ecks
of Twitter, the most interesting man uh in the world.
And and also I love this description, uh the guy
(01:45):
who's doing for the black gangster what Martin Scorsese did
for the Mafia, catapulting it into into the popular culture.
So it's uh, it's those are those are? Those are
pretty uh cool labels? Uh, if you will. But yeah,
you're from I know you're from New York, from Queens right,
and growing up you well you did? Did you have
a normal, pretty childhood or what what was the backstory there? Well? Well,
(02:07):
first of all, let me just say, um, thank you
so much for the compliments. Man, I appreciate it. You know, um,
growing up in New York, for me, I've always been
a hustler man. You know. Um, I could remember starting
around when I was eleven years old, going to Chinatown
and negotiating with what I thought was Chinese suppliers but
(02:28):
turned out to be Italians in Little Italy, which was
next door, and I buy fireworks and come back. I
was the neighborhood distributor. So I kind of had an
appetite for making money. To you that you were slinging
fireworks years old, I'll remember clearly, like yesterday, you know.
And um, so I've always kind of been ambitious and
(02:52):
thinking outside the box. And um, I like to think
that I've been an asset to everyone in my circle.
So a lot of people are kind of loyal to
me and protective of me for that reason. And did
you I play sports at all? Did you have any
interest in that? Was it always sort of like a
hustler mentality and and and making money? Yeah, you know,
(03:17):
I missed out on a lot of things due to
my pursuit of money. And it's not even from a
love of money perspective. To me, the success was validation
of my ideas and my beliefs in the way I
saw things, Because when you conceive an idea there's no
more validation than the the money to success gives you.
(03:40):
At least that's how I saw it at that time. No,
but I never played sports or anything like that at all.
So how did you get How did that evolve into
the hip hop world and getting into the rap game
and in that respect, I happened that that that's um coincidence.
I grew up in Hollow Queens and anybody, anyone who
(04:02):
knows about rapping knows that Russell Simmons and Run DMC
came from Hollys Queens. I was, you know those guys
before Running DMC. I've known him since I was seven
years old. We were classmates all the way to thirteen. Yeah.
As a matter of fact, Run used to DJ in
my in my house sometimes and I'd go to his house.
(04:24):
I thought I wanted to be a d J too,
But you know, yeah, and I remember when he first
started rapping and everything else. Yeah, all of those guys.
I mean, like I literally grew up with those guys.
As a matter of fact, I have a scar under
here with DMC tackled me in the snow and my
tooth went through my lip. You know what I mean.
(04:46):
He was a really strong, you know, like big kids. Okay,
he laid me out, kind of good. First concert ever
went to R DMC when I was a kid. They
were touring only beastie boys back in the day. You know,
they they all res possible for the commercialism of rap.
They really are the pioneers exactly. They were the first
with the endorsement deals, uh, the bling, the big change
(05:10):
that the street clothes. They really set the trend that
everyone's following. And I happened to have been there and
Russell started deaf jamming, So I've been around that rap thing. Yeah,
from the commercial genesis, you know what I mean? So
how did you get tied up? And I know it's
all cleared up now, but how do people think or
do they still think, that you actually had a hand
in killing jam Master Jay? You know, um I got.
(05:36):
That's still unsolved. It might crack. Yeah, it's absolutely unsolved.
But how can I say it? I guess when I
was younger, I had a somewhat of a reputation for
what um I'm taking any ship, that's right, okay, for
not taking any ship. And it was well known that
um Jay had owed me a couple of dollars, but
(05:58):
What people didn't know is that he had also set
up a meeting with me for me with Lee York Cohen.
Me and Jay had to understanding a relationship that people
aren't the wealth, and a lot of times when people
are on the outside, they connect dots that don't connect,
and you know, two and two they come up with six,
(06:18):
you know what I'm saying. So they're they're not privy
to what's going on, so they can only speculate. So
when you combine mine, I guess, reputation and the fact
you knew him and you know and and so on
and so forth. So people started drawing conclusions, how how
(06:40):
much trouble did you did you get in throughout the years?
And was it something it was mainly a product of
wrong place, wrong time. She seemed like with such a
good mindset, even as a kid, ambitious as you know,
you silly kid stuff. Or did it get pretty serious
most of the time. Uh, it's been pretty serious, you know.
But the thing is right, Um, I'm fifty four, a
(07:04):
few months from fifty five, and we're talking about events
when I was twenty years old one. So, and anybody
who grew up in any inner city understand that those
are the most um farm of years and volatile years
if you you don't have the proper guidance, you know
(07:28):
what I mean. Yeah, But at the end of the day,
I don't have any convictions. I've never done time in prison,
and I'm a legitimate business man who employed dozens of
people to this day. You know, So I look at
it as um growing pains, you know, That's how I
(07:49):
look at it. Well, put well, put what I find
fascinating to on Twitter and correct me if I'm wrong. No, no, uh,
you didn't go to university, right, No higher education as
far because you're incredibly articulate and a really good writer.
There was no studying involved or really no. Um. I
did attend college for one year, and really that was
(08:10):
only because I was appeal in a case and appeal
was it succeeded, which is why I have no convictions.
But my bill was continued while I was out on appeal.
I was a twenty two year old freshman. But it
was purely illegal strategy for me. I guess you could say,
I'm gonna think of man, I'm gonna think I'm a reader.
(08:31):
Um My, I Q was tested. It was at one
thirty eight which is borderline genius. I retained information, I
remember everything you know tales, and I'm really good at
assessing people in situations and all of that is played
into helping me navigate through life and help me with
my success. Yeah, yeah, books part in can't here twice
(08:54):
as smart as everybody else and somehow, Um, and I
want to get back into your business in a second.
But now, which I thought was really cool, is your
a filmmaker also? And I saw your your latest documentary,
Black White and Blue. I know he self financed it. Uh,
you narrated it, and I thought it was I thought
it was excellent, very telling, and um, it made me think.
(09:15):
I wanted to pause and and sort of I saw
with a buddy of mine and wanted to discuss some
stuff and then go back to it. And it was
just why why let me? I'm kind of all over
the place. But why do you think I thought it
was it was important? Why do you think it wasn't
given more coverage or pushed by other black outlets. Well,
(09:36):
my film, in my opinion, is an authentic black narrative.
And the difference with that and what we have and
what we see is that because my film was funded
by black people, myself created and made by black people,
it tends to be more organic in its delivery. Now
(10:00):
when you when you speak from a black perspective, right,
most of the people you see are celebrities who are
on the payroll of different corporate entities. Their politics can
never be in opposition to the people who pay them,
so they are already compromised. I think it's kind of
(10:22):
dangerous for celebrities or or high profile individuals who aren't
self reliant to be too involved with political expressions because
they have to watch what they say, which means they
cannot be honest in some situations. Now that's not to
(10:44):
say that their employers are always dishonest, but if their
perspective isn't in alignment with their employers, they're jeopardizing their livelihood.
So it might be best for them to be behind
the scenes and maybe supply need two different movements and things.
But what we have in the black community is controlled
(11:06):
talent elements are the vanguard and doing the speaking. It's
not just with the celebrities. I'm I'm speaking of them
the politicians because we don't even fund out politicians, so
who funds them? Because that's who they are beholden to.
You know, a lot of black people were proud about
Obama getting elected asked him how much money they donated
(11:28):
to his campaign. So what do you expect in return
if you did not finance his campaign? Because if he's
gonna run again, and he knows he needs a billion
dollars to run for president, he's got to make deals
with the people who finance him. And that's on the
macro level. On even on a local level, running for
mayor state reps or whatever, we simply don't support our candidates,
(11:54):
and then we feel like we're betrayed when they promote
the agendas and issues of the people who did fund them.
You see, yes, So because it didn't fit the narrative,
did you feel black ball with the partnering expression? You know,
you know I did. I did. But but you know what,
(12:18):
I'm gonna tell you something right about my personality, Like
you put me in a situation, and you know, like
some people that go after the weakest targets, I like challenges.
I'm a big game hunter. I knew what the obstacles
were gonna be before I embarked on that journey. I
knew they weren't gonna like what I had to say.
(12:40):
I knew they weren't gonna like me, but they can't
parade people like a d Ray McKesson, who was the
face of Black Lives Matter, and so he's an accurate
representation of the black struggle. See, I know that struggle.
I am a product of that struggle, you know, And
I've been on both size of that struggle. I've been
(13:01):
on the the negative in my youth and now on
the positive as an adult. So my my education is
well rounded when it comes to the issues and how
to really address them. A lot of these guys they
go to school and they learn things. They're indoctrinated. They're
not really educated. And that's what I do on Twitter.
(13:22):
I give them an education that goes against their indoctrination.
And that's why the backlash is so strong, which, by
the way, I should point out. On Amazon, this documentary
has a rating of four point five stars out of five,
so it's been very well reviewed and received, which should
obviously give you a lot of gratification. Off of that,
Why did you start off with the Freddy Gray situation
(13:44):
in Baltimore? Well, well, oh, so let me say that.
On Vimeo It's been seen in thirteen countries as well.
You know a lot of people they like it. But
you know, again, the narrative isn't the popular one now,
the Freddy racist I think it's important to you, Yes, yes,
thank you. You know, um, the Freddy Great situation. Well,
(14:08):
aside from wanting to tell the story, I had to
frame it in a narrative that was relative to the times,
that was current. And around the time I started And
let me also say that Twitter, social media inspired me
to make this film and most of the people that
(14:28):
are in the film were contacted through my social media presence,
so yeah, you know, and and around the time after
Obama's second term, this whole Black Lives Matter things started moving.
First of all, it was with um Trayvon Martin. Then
(14:51):
came Michael Brown. But because I live in the DC area,
the Freddy Freddy Gray situation was the closest to me,
you know what I mean, in proximity, and it was very,
very explosive those riots. Like I know people in Baltimore,
I'm familiar with Baltimore. I've been in and out of
(15:13):
Baltimore since the eighties. Baltimore is a very, very rough,
violent place, so when that happened, I knew it was
gonna be worse than anything that happened in Ferguson. You
know what I mean. Let me ask you this soon,
because I've always wanted to ask you this. Why is
it if you give a difference of opinion and I've
(15:35):
seen it on your timeline and it's not excuse me
going along with um whatever the narrative is at the moment.
Other fellow African Americans are quick to say coon in,
Uncle Tom and all the wise. That rhetoric always that's
that's the only it seems like the Victorian seems so well.
(15:56):
I'll let you answer, but let me say that at first,
that social media is not accurate representation of what's going
on in the world. A lot of those people are
paid provocateurs, you know, and I used them as a foil,
so to speak. I engaged them deliberately so I could
have an opportunity to say more things and more things.
(16:20):
And if you pay attention, my following keeps growing. I'm
shadow band on Twitter. On Twitter, people screenshot and send
me saying that my tweets aren't coming up on their
timeline even though they follow me. They have to literally
come to my page. You see. So if I'm the sellout,
why why is there so much effort and in censoring me?
(16:45):
You understand what I'm saying, yeah, and seeing the sellouts
are the ones who are making money off of trauma
and tragedy. I am not. As a matter of fact,
I've been offered situations to to do certain things for money,
and I feel like if I take the money, it'll
undermine my credibility. You understand, like I genuinely care about
(17:10):
the community. And when I say I care about the
black community, it's not like I only care about black people,
because that's not the case. I really feel that everyone
has an opinion on what's what's wrong with these people?
Why can't they get it together? That's just that I
want to. I want to help help the community as
(17:31):
best I can, because I believe charity starts at home,
and by helping the community, I'll be helping everybody else.
Because they seem to be so concerned about us. You know,
they talk about, uh, black kids are born out of
wedlock in New York City right now. Um, they're the
black abortion rate outpaces the birth rate. There's of the
(17:58):
prison population are black people and nobody's addressing any of that.
So if I want to speak on that rather than
speak on um, gender issues, feminist issues, those things. You know,
I'm not saying those issues aren't important, but they've got
(18:20):
nothing to do with me that they're not the priority
for me. You know, if I got a nail fungus
and a bullet hole, which one am I going to
attend to first? You understand what I'm talking. That's a
great example, and you can you put your money in
with your mouth, is with your with your business financing,
with the films and your employees. That's where it counts.
That's where it's really about the American and giving back.
(18:41):
So let me get your take on a group like
Black Lives Matter. What are your thoughts? Well, you got
a guy, d Ray McKesson. He's an openly gay black man.
He has a strong social media presence because he also
coincidentally has a really good relationship with the founder of Twitter.
(19:04):
Jack Dorsey. Is heated the individual that essentially started No,
he he isn't. He came to face. I don't know
how he face. It was started actually by two or
three black lesbian women. See and you'll see a consciant
theme when it comes to people who are anointed black leaders.
(19:24):
But anyway, Deray mckinsson interesting, Dray mckisson his his He
was granted credibility through social media and he met with
Obama at least five times in the White House to
talk about what who knows? Who is the guy? Because
(19:48):
that was to me, in my opinion, that was done
to validate him and present him as an authentic black
you know leader. He ran for me in Baltimore, in
the city that he's from, after the Freddy Gray thing.
He was one of the best funded candidates at a
fundraiser farm in New York Wall Street. You see, you
(20:10):
gotta connect the dots, look at where the money's coming from,
because I'm gonna get into something else in a little bit.
But he couldn't get three per cent of the vote
in his own city, super popular on Twitter, sat with
the president sitting president five times, and nobody in his
city know him. So it's a gross misrepresentation of what's
(20:33):
important to us and who represents us, and that motivated
me to make the film. You see our voice, it
is not it's not being heard right now. You've got
every black politician in Congress and the Senate have endorsed
um uh bill called HR two. What is that bill?
(21:00):
That bill is to expand the Civil Rights Act to
include gender issues, sexuality issues, and so on and so forth.
And again I have nothing against anybody dealing with those issues. However,
in nineteen sixty four, when the Civil Acts Civil Rights
Act was passed, no one was hanging gays, no one
(21:24):
was hosing gaze down, no one was sicking dogs on them.
It was it was passed specifically for us. And even
after it was passed, the greatest beneficiaries of the Civil
Rights Act were white women. So it's never been to
our benefit. As a matter of fact, if you want
to trace the destruction and dismantling of Black society and
(21:48):
the Black family, it begins with integration and the Civil
Rights Act. Since to bring the Civil Rights era. My
one of my favorite things about uh Dr Martin Luther
King as he was faith based obviously, and he came
from a place of faith. You you knew what was right,
(22:09):
you know it was wrong. That was essentially his infrastructure,
of of his of his teachings, right, I think, and
tell me if I'm wrong, I think he'd be met
with controversy today, it seems right, It seems like there's
almost like a war against Christianity and it's a bad word. Recently,
(22:29):
um there was tweets about the awful situation that happened
in Sri Lanka and they were they felt they were
praying for the hashtag Easter worshippers. You don't worship Easter.
There's no Easter to worship. That's Jesus, that's that's it's Christianity.
You're afraid to say the word. We've gotten to the
point where now Christianity, Christians are a controversial word. And
(22:51):
so I was thinking, man Dr King wouldn't would be
met with controversy today and might not have the impact
that he had. Am I wrong about that? No, you're
not wrong. Right before he died, Dr King has quoted
as saying he fears that he has integrated his people
into a burning house. You see. And and the thing
(23:13):
is the reason why there was such a shift and
dismantling of the black communities because prior to integration, we
had strong family values. See an integration, it stripped us
of that. What happened was the people who who backed
us with integration, we started adopting their values. And their
(23:36):
values tend to be anti family sometimes, you know, and
they push a whole lot of different things and we
and we are like the canary in the coal mine.
We are the the outcome of what happens when you
dismantle the patriarchy and so on and so forth. Prior,
prior to integration, although we had our problems with racism,
(24:00):
had more black entrepreneurs, more black families, more black fathers,
and all the things that we complain about today, we had.
But no one wants to acknowledge that we started losing
it with integration and why. It's not simply just the
racial factor. It's the fact that we started adopting the
value system of people who maybe maybe they had the
(24:23):
means that they could live those alternative lifestyles and so
on and so forth, and did not affect them as much.
But we weren't in that position. But it's fascinating because
because it really is about the nuclear family. You can't
teach a young man to be a man without a
father present. There. Only a father can really have that
(24:43):
sort of influence and impact on on an individual, so
that the importance of family is not And maybe it
goes back to the Christianity. But it's not. It's not
it seems like it's not a mandate, it's not celebrate
it's not even discussed, you know, h And it really
is that simple, right, That's amazing. Listen, my son right,
(25:07):
his mom sent him to live with me when he
was thirteen years old, and that was two years after
the incident with J. M J. So I was dealing
with my own personal term more and even in the
midst of that, I provided the proper guidance for him
(25:27):
to make him a man. He's twenty eight today. I
ain't been out line. I wouldn't look forward to that.
He's twenty eight to day. He has his own car
dealership business. He sells realistic he has a clothing line.
He graduated from college with no debt because I stayed
(25:47):
on him and made sure he got the Whope scholarship.
I didn't have the means at the time, but I
provided him the proper guidance. To this day, I don't
give him any money, but I give him all the
advice that I think young men need from all the
men who have walked the path that that's in front
of them. You know, absolutely, no, totally agree with that
(26:10):
I loved um dr W Randy short documentary What's his
back Story? Where'd you find that cat? He had some
great things to say. Here's the thing, right, even though
I had my views, I didn't want to make a
propaganda piece. I wanted objectivity, so I always looked for
opposing views. If you notice, I had pro black life.
(26:31):
Black lives matter so important. I love that. I love
hearing but and I love hearing him back to back
so they can say you can make your I'm not
biased at all, you know. But anyway, I saw Randy
on YouTube promoting Donald Trump. I said, I need a
black Trump supporter, you know. Yeah, So so I just
(26:56):
your producer had I dispatched my assist and he contacted
tracked Randy down. Randy happened to live in d C.
Randy's a fascinating guy. He went to Harvard Divinity School
and he was there when Obama was there, and Um
Randy gave me a perspective. He said things that a
(27:17):
lot of black people say privately, but they wouldn't go
on the record and say because they don't want to
lose their job. They don't. You don't understand you have
to have you have to have a certain viewpoint and
think and this this this town that's supposed to be
so inclusive and about diversity, they're all cool. Look unless
this diversity of thoughts right than than you're risking your
(27:39):
career coming to an hand. So so so Randy, Randy,
Now he said certain things, He touched on certain things
that um controversial, but they were accurate. He spoke about
Black lives matter in a way that turned out to
be real, you know. And also, Randy, he has to
(28:01):
be my favorite subject in the film from um from
a marketing standpoint, because his views set my film apart
from all the others that speak about the same things.
No other documentary filmmaker would put the content in there
(28:23):
that Randy provided and enrisch the scrutiny order or being
ostracized for it, you know, And it was Randy is
both problematic for my project, but I think in the
long run he'll be what makes the project stand out
(28:44):
because these things, it's like running a marathon. These things
have life forever and you never know when it's gonna
catch on, and they could. I'm looking to put it
in a university system at some point, because those are
the people that need to see this. They need to
see both sides to combat that indoctrination that they're getting,
because we know they're not. They're we're seeing one side
(29:06):
very clear from the professors and on why do you
think with both the black community that you know community
for that matter, it's sort of pounded in that you
gotta be a Democrats and they don't. They don't even
want you to entertain the other side. You touch upon it,
I know when you're films, but you know, um, I'm
(29:30):
a political and I just want to do what works,
and I want to I think I think what they
call it dog whistling and virtue signaling and all these things.
I think these things are easy. It's easy to appeal
(29:52):
to people's emotions and fears. It's easier to appeal to
their emotions and fears than to provide salute. And that's
why you have so much of that going on. You know, like, um,
when you look at the democratic field right now, what
do they have to like twenty candidates or something ridiculous
like that. They all are all they're all saying the
(30:12):
same thing, and they're not really standing out as far as, uh,
giving difference of opinions or even for their solutions, right,
But it seems like they're sort of up in the
annie saying the same thing. So I'm very it's it's
fascinating sort of to see. I'm curious how the primary
is going to be and when a debate happens when
(30:34):
you're saying the same thing, how do you how do you?
How do you stand out? Trump is getting reelected And
I've been saying that for a while and it doesn't
matter who's on the other side of that. They don't
have anybody because what they've done is they've conditioned the
voters to indulge in a popularity contest because they don't
(30:54):
have any answers for the issues. So it's about it's
gonna be some some random nonser, Uh, this one's for this,
Uh gave marriage and this one's for this one, and
things that the average person don't really doesn't it doesn't
affect them, you know, Trump, Trump is talking about the economy.
(31:17):
Who doesn't care about it? Even if you're gay, if
you go bro, you're gonna get divorced. They they still
gotta pay half to you. To me, to be a
good politician, you gotta deal with universal issues, not these
couture issues, you know. And speaking of politicians, you know,
(31:38):
in the film, there's um sonator Coleman, right, Coleman Young
out of Detroit. I end up backing him for Malia
and backed him when he ran again. Rashida ran against
Rashida Talib for congresswoman in the thirteenth district. And the
reason why I did that is because he was an outsider.
(31:58):
No one was giving him any support it and I
felt like through him, I could impact change in a
majority black, uh city like Detroit. You know. Any lost
both times, but I gave it a try, and I
put my money on the line, you know. And I
knew it was an uphill battle, but I still had
to give it a shot. And and and and we
(32:21):
have to support our candidates. I wanted to lead by example.
I don't just want to get up here and say
this to you and not do it myself. I took
I took losses and hits. I'm met Coleman when I
interviewed him for the film. His father was the first
black mayor Detroit and uh he was mayor for five terms.
And if you ever go to Detroit, I mean it's
(32:45):
not a nice place, man. It looks like a third
world country. You know, Trump would call it something else,
but still you know it's it's term. I mean blocks
of abandoned houses is yeah, they're going and take all
the pipes. How what a heat of everything that could
be sold? Right? Well, I don't know if you cruise
(33:07):
drowned out. We've got some tense cities going on San Francisco.
I happened. It was so ridiculous. The other day I
posted something that from their own local newscast. They put
out um essentially a map of where human feces has
been reported in the city, and the whole thing was covered.
(33:29):
It was like a hundred and eighteen thousand incidents. I
was like, oh my, who is just dropping in and
then dropping bombs right in the middle. How is that?
I was like, isn't that like the most expensive place
to live and that yet we have that. It's really
kind of scary on on a big level of what's
going on, because you know what automation and in artificial
(33:54):
intelligence and all these things a lot of jobs. There's
not a lot of room for unskilled label let me
say that, you know what I mean, And I don't
know what people are thinking. I don't know if they're
getting ready if they're you know, like I want to
see work done in the school system. I want to
see the kids learn to do cyber security and things
(34:17):
that are like in the twenty one century. All this
historical reenactments and these historical impersonators in this love affel
with nostalgia, this is gonna hurt us big time. Well,
I want I want to go have a couple of things,
uh with you here and get your take. Um uh
And again, Curtis, I love how as a kid you
(34:37):
went through whatever you went through. But I mean now
you know, you employ over fifty people and pretty impressive
as a just a street guy who who went didn't
go to college, and and uh m, now getting into
the film industry and now you have possible interest in
the city of Detroit with Dan Gilbert, who of course
is the owner of the Calves. Um, what's your what
are your thoughts on like the Nipsey Hustle situation? You know,
(35:00):
I didn't I didn't really know much about Nipsey. Um.
I saw a few interviews with him. He came across
to me as a a very intelligent guy, you know,
and um, from all reports they say he was an entrepreneur,
successful one. I mean, some of the numbers heard seemed
(35:22):
sort of fantastic to me. But you know, I don't know.
I just don't know. I think I saw Able du
Verne say Nipsey it is responsible for creating a quarter
of a million jobs. I mean, you know, I don't.
I don't know. I haven't done anything. I think it's
deaf as a tragedy. Um. Other than that, I don't
(35:46):
know what he was doing. It seems from what I know,
from where I stand, it seemed like it was positive.
It doesn't I don't really know the guy either, never
had the top tune in me. But I was like,
you know what, man, it made an extra tragic because
he was giving back to his community. It seemed like
he was doing well. But then damn it if if
somebody from your own hoods always take you out and
that's why you want to get out, you know, Lepsy.
(36:08):
I will say this because Nipsey was only thirty three, right, right,
And I remember when I was thirty three. You know,
it's kind of like that age when you come from
a place where he comes from, you're still kind of
in and out. You don't want to be totally distant, right,
and you don't want to know. I know because of
us that you don't even want that. You don't want
(36:29):
to look like a sellout to your homies. But at
the same out you're trying to kind of get out
but still keep a foot in. I know exactly what
you mean. You see. Now, at my age, I only
go places I need to go, and I don't deal
with people to deal with, right, exactly know. It's that
you're right, you get older. As I've gotten older, my
circle has gotten smaller and I've gotten happier. That's people
as drama, right, He was at that peculiar sort of age, right, Yeah,
(36:54):
I think a number two years and he might not
have been out there anymore. Right. It is unfortunate you
had a good laugh over this whole justse Smolette situation
and A from the beginning, I thought it sounded highly suspicious. Um,
and he's still I saw something the other day saying
he's still having night nightmares over the attack and my
man is not backing down. Well, you know, just is
(37:18):
a That whole story is called his ice. He's a
he's a sociopathic drama queen. He uh he He just
craves attention, man, you know, and um and people are
given it to him. Nobody believes, nobody would sense believe
that story. You know. But aside from the foolishness, you
(37:41):
gotta look at the people who are supporting him and
trying to cover him Kamala Harris wife, because it fits
the narrative too. He was checking off a lot of boxes, right,
He checks off a lot of boxes with the designated
spokespeople for the black community. You know what I mean?
These people are propped up. They don't represent our interests,
(38:05):
but they have a lot of protection and support. On
one hand, I heard he was making a hundred thousand
hours the episode for Empire. I was like, man, this
guy is lucky because he's not even a great actor.
You know what, well, he's definitely not a good producer.
(38:25):
He got two brothers that come to try to talk
about terms aboard to the bagpe losing skills are suspected.
The least so used too many props, got no creative
And this is the quality of opposition that Trump is facing.
Do you know, I didn't believe Trump was gonna win
in I did not, you know, I thought he had
(38:48):
a real good chance until the bus and he started
talking about grabbing, you know, and I was like, oh, man,
that might be that might be the blow. I was
actually surprised after that. Before that, I thought he had
a good shop. But after that, I go, oh, that's
that's gonna be it. I mean, you can't be talking
about that and you'd be a president. And shocked the
hell out of me after that. It's right, I never
took them seriously. I thought he was doing it as promotion,
(39:10):
SOE promote, you know. Oh. I think he surprised himself too,
and he's like, oh I might winnes you know, and
and and it was that same point was said in
the film. As a matter of fact. One person said
that that he was shocked that he wont But I
think what as a country, as a nation, we underestimated
how tired the people were. But what the other side
(39:33):
was doing that even with all his differences in outlandish
behavior and talk, people said, you know what, let's try
something different, right, And I think tired of being politically
correct and someone that obviously it wasn't his uh you know,
is articular polite as say you're you're but because I
(39:53):
think people, yeah, you're right. It was just sort of refreshing, right,
and they said, why won't we get this du to
show they they want to try something different. They didn't
like what they had, you know what I mean, say
went the other way and and also again not not
the harp on it, but I did make the film
as a voice for black people. I think we got
to stop looking for political solutions for social problems. You know,
(40:17):
those are things that we have to address within our
family structures and so forth. That's where it starts. Yeah,
a couple of things before it's two more things before
we have to wrap it up right here. Do you
think that Colin Kaepernick actually accomplish anything interview? I mean,
he got a book deal, that's what he accomplished. As
(40:38):
far as it caused, I don't even know what that's about.
I'm still not sure. I first I heard it was
about the anthem, the words of the ante anthem or racist,
and then for the police brutality. I don't know. To me,
it's political grandstanding. You're not gonna get the anthem changed
(41:01):
by doing that. You're not gonna stop police brutality by
doing that. So what are you trying to do over them?
To raise your own profile. You know, he has a
really good deal with Nike, got a book deal. They
gave him the Mohammed Ali Award or something like that.
I guess he said he did a lot of self
(41:22):
promotion there and took people on the ride. Do you
think it's interesting that he you never see him out
speaking about these causes. That's what's always I've found that.
I don't I don't, you know, I mean never, never, never.
I don't think. I don't think Kaepernick it is the
brightest bulb in the chandelier, and he's quiet for his
(41:44):
own protection. That's what I think. I think he couldn't
sit here and do what I'm doing with you right
now because he's not gonna be able to think on
his feet, because if he was, they would capitalize on it.
They would put him out there if he was sharp man,
Why wouldn't they use it? Why wouldn't they exploit it?
So I gotta I gotta question is intelligence? I do
(42:07):
alc Alexandro Casio Quartet. He's the star of the Democratic
Party and and and looks like the future is What
does that say about us as a society? Well, she
she represents um what they called millennials or whatever. Um.
(42:32):
I think her appeal it's primarily to people who feel
like this system, the way of doing things, this isn't
gonna work for them. It comes out of hopelessness. But
they just gotta do their job. Man, They gotta get
out of here and compete. If somebody like me with
(42:54):
my background, with the cloud that I have hanging over
my head, you know, can on the niche and make
a difference. They just have to be committed. They got
to stop posting on Instagram and and a whole of
They gotta get focused, you know what I mean, Like
they can't. And I'm talking about how constituents the people.
(43:15):
The socialism thing, I'm not a I'm not a I'm
not a fan of socialism at all. I'm not Capitalism
isn't perfect, But even socialism, to me, is funded by capitalism.
Venezuela sold its oil for all the socialist programs in
the world marketplace. You see what I'm saying. Is there
an example of when socialism has worked or been successful?
(43:38):
Not that, not that I know of none, You know
what I mean, It's embraced right now. I do believe
though in civilized societies we should have some some degree
of care the elderly, the sick, and so on and
so forth. You know, those things are those things are necessary.
We can't just be the lord of jungle, but to
(44:01):
make that the standard for everybody, I think that's gonna
it stagnates development of civilization and the individual competition is good.
I love to compete American way. Yeah, I love to
compete absolutely. Curtis Man, I could sit here and talk
to you for another couple of hours. You just gonna
(44:22):
have to come back. You're come busy right here. Congratulations
on on everything and uh and I mean that. And
listen if you haven't checked it out. The documentary Black
White and Blue, um directed by Asian Norris, who was
a friend of yours and produced by Mr Curtis Scoon,
is definitely a worthwhile watch. Really enjoyed speaking with you, sir. Okay,
(44:44):
and let them know what they can find it on.
Where did you tell them? Where can they find it? Yeah,
you gotta go on Black White and Blue film dot com.
You can find the film on Amazon and Vimeo right now,
and also check out the theme song I'm a songwriter
as well. Hold on now you're going next level with
the songwriter and follow him on Twitter. That's right, and
(45:09):
where can they follow you on Twitter? At Curtis School.
That's c U R T I S S c O
O and is a Nancy. Thank you sir? All right,
thank you, so don't forget a new episodes, and listen
to Mario dropping every Friday, all on Mario dot com
to catch up on the podcast, and please make sure
you follow listen to Mario on I Heart Radio and
(45:31):
subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts. More
fun next week. Thank you so much for listening
All right, excited for this episode of listen to Mario
Mario Lopez here. And this guy I feel is the
most fascinating follow on Twitter, and I've been following him
for a while and he's smart and provocative, polarizing for
some people, but really really fascinating as a person with
his backstory and where he is today, Mr Curtis Schoon.
(00:20):
They describe him as the man who is doing for
the black gangster what Mortin Scorsese did for the Mafia,
catapulting it into popular cultures. So let's get into it.
Maria Curtis Schoon, How are you, sir? I'm good. How
are you? Um? Well, I'm very excited to talk to
you because I've been following you on Twitter now for
(00:42):
at least a few years, and I think you're the
most fascinating follow on Twitter. Incredibly articulate and intelligent and
an independent thinker that's not afraid to touch on sensitive
or what people can perceive as sensitive controversial subjects. And
you always have such a great response to people who
(01:03):
have a difference of opinion, and you you you choose
to engage, which I like, and that's what I think
is wrong, quite frankly, with with the dialogue in this
country is you're getting your certain thought bubbles and you
only talk to people who share the same view as
opposed to That's one of the downfalls I think of
social media because you can segregate yourself that way, as
(01:24):
opposed to actually creating a dialogue, being open to diversity
of thought, learning something and growing as a people. Was
so but before so giving you props there. Um, Yeah,
it's funny because you've been described as the dos Ecks
of Twitter, the most interesting man uh in the world.
And and also I love this description, uh the guy
(01:45):
who's doing for the black gangster what Martin Scorsese did
for the Mafia, catapulting it into into the popular culture.
So it's uh, it's those are those are? Those are
pretty uh cool labels? Uh, if you will. But yeah,
you're from I know you're from New York, from Queens right,
and growing up you well you did? Did you have
a normal, pretty childhood or what what was the backstory there? Well? Well,
(02:07):
first of all, let me just say, um, thank you
so much for the compliments. Man, I appreciate it. You know, um,
growing up in New York, for me, I've always been
a hustler man. You know. Um, I could remember starting
around when I was eleven years old, going to Chinatown
and negotiating with what I thought was Chinese suppliers but
(02:28):
turned out to be Italians in Little Italy, which was
next door, and I buy fireworks and come back. I
was the neighborhood distributor. So I kind of had an
appetite for making money. To you that you were slinging
fireworks years old, I'll remember clearly, like yesterday, you know.
And um, so I've always kind of been ambitious and
(02:52):
thinking outside the box. And um, I like to think
that I've been an asset to everyone in my circle.
So a lot of people are kind of loyal to
me and protective of me for that reason. And did
you I play sports at all? Did you have any
interest in that? Was it always sort of like a
hustler mentality and and and making money? Yeah, you know,
(03:17):
I missed out on a lot of things due to
my pursuit of money. And it's not even from a
love of money perspective. To me, the success was validation
of my ideas and my beliefs in the way I
saw things, Because when you conceive an idea there's no
more validation than the the money to success gives you.
(03:40):
At least that's how I saw it at that time. No,
but I never played sports or anything like that at all.
So how did you get How did that evolve into
the hip hop world and getting into the rap game
and in that respect, I happened that that that's um coincidence.
I grew up in Hollow Queens and anybody, anyone who
(04:02):
knows about rapping knows that Russell Simmons and Run DMC
came from Hollys Queens. I was, you know those guys
before Running DMC. I've known him since I was seven
years old. We were classmates all the way to thirteen. Yeah.
As a matter of fact, Run used to DJ in
my in my house sometimes and I'd go to his house.
(04:24):
I thought I wanted to be a d J too,
But you know, yeah, and I remember when he first
started rapping and everything else. Yeah, all of those guys.
I mean, like I literally grew up with those guys.
As a matter of fact, I have a scar under
here with DMC tackled me in the snow and my
tooth went through my lip. You know what I mean.
(04:46):
He was a really strong, you know, like big kids. Okay,
he laid me out, kind of good. First concert ever
went to R DMC when I was a kid. They
were touring only beastie boys back in the day. You know,
they they all res possible for the commercialism of rap.
They really are the pioneers exactly. They were the first
with the endorsement deals, uh, the bling, the big change
(05:10):
that the street clothes. They really set the trend that
everyone's following. And I happened to have been there and
Russell started deaf jamming, So I've been around that rap thing. Yeah,
from the commercial genesis, you know what I mean? So
how did you get tied up? And I know it's
all cleared up now, but how do people think or
do they still think, that you actually had a hand
in killing jam Master Jay? You know, um I got.
(05:36):
That's still unsolved. It might crack. Yeah, it's absolutely unsolved.
But how can I say it? I guess when I
was younger, I had a somewhat of a reputation for
what um I'm taking any ship, that's right, okay, for
not taking any ship. And it was well known that
um Jay had owed me a couple of dollars, but
(05:58):
What people didn't know is that he had also set
up a meeting with me for me with Lee York Cohen.
Me and Jay had to understanding a relationship that people
aren't the wealth, and a lot of times when people
are on the outside, they connect dots that don't connect,
and you know, two and two they come up with six,
(06:18):
you know what I'm saying. So they're they're not privy
to what's going on, so they can only speculate. So
when you combine mine, I guess, reputation and the fact
you knew him and you know and and so on
and so forth. So people started drawing conclusions, how how
(06:40):
much trouble did you did you get in throughout the years?
And was it something it was mainly a product of
wrong place, wrong time. She seemed like with such a
good mindset, even as a kid, ambitious as you know,
you silly kid stuff. Or did it get pretty serious
most of the time. Uh, it's been pretty serious, you know.
But the thing is right, Um, I'm fifty four, a
(07:04):
few months from fifty five, and we're talking about events
when I was twenty years old one. So, and anybody
who grew up in any inner city understand that those
are the most um farm of years and volatile years
if you you don't have the proper guidance, you know
(07:28):
what I mean. Yeah, But at the end of the day,
I don't have any convictions. I've never done time in prison,
and I'm a legitimate business man who employed dozens of
people to this day. You know, So I look at
it as um growing pains, you know, That's how I
(07:49):
look at it. Well, put well, put what I find
fascinating to on Twitter and correct me if I'm wrong. No, no, uh,
you didn't go to university, right, No higher education as
far because you're incredibly articulate and a really good writer.
There was no studying involved or really no. Um. I
did attend college for one year, and really that was
(08:10):
only because I was appeal in a case and appeal
was it succeeded, which is why I have no convictions.
But my bill was continued while I was out on appeal.
I was a twenty two year old freshman. But it
was purely illegal strategy for me. I guess you could say,
I'm gonna think of man, I'm gonna think I'm a reader.
(08:31):
Um My, I Q was tested. It was at one
thirty eight which is borderline genius. I retained information, I
remember everything you know tales, and I'm really good at
assessing people in situations and all of that is played
into helping me navigate through life and help me with
my success. Yeah, yeah, books part in can't here twice
(08:54):
as smart as everybody else and somehow, Um, and I
want to get back into your business in a second.
But now, which I thought was really cool, is your
a filmmaker also? And I saw your your latest documentary,
Black White and Blue. I know he self financed it. Uh,
you narrated it, and I thought it was I thought
it was excellent, very telling, and um, it made me think.
(09:15):
I wanted to pause and and sort of I saw
with a buddy of mine and wanted to discuss some
stuff and then go back to it. And it was
just why why let me? I'm kind of all over
the place. But why do you think I thought it
was it was important? Why do you think it wasn't
given more coverage or pushed by other black outlets. Well,
(09:36):
my film, in my opinion, is an authentic black narrative.
And the difference with that and what we have and
what we see is that because my film was funded
by black people, myself created and made by black people,
it tends to be more organic in its delivery. Now
(10:00):
when you when you speak from a black perspective, right,
most of the people you see are celebrities who are
on the payroll of different corporate entities. Their politics can
never be in opposition to the people who pay them,
so they are already compromised. I think it's kind of
(10:22):
dangerous for celebrities or or high profile individuals who aren't
self reliant to be too involved with political expressions because
they have to watch what they say, which means they
cannot be honest in some situations. Now that's not to
(10:44):
say that their employers are always dishonest, but if their
perspective isn't in alignment with their employers, they're jeopardizing their livelihood.
So it might be best for them to be behind
the scenes and maybe supply need two different movements and things.
But what we have in the black community is controlled
(11:06):
talent elements are the vanguard and doing the speaking. It's
not just with the celebrities. I'm I'm speaking of them
the politicians because we don't even fund out politicians, so
who funds them? Because that's who they are beholden to.
You know, a lot of black people were proud about
Obama getting elected asked him how much money they donated
(11:28):
to his campaign. So what do you expect in return
if you did not finance his campaign? Because if he's
gonna run again, and he knows he needs a billion
dollars to run for president, he's got to make deals
with the people who finance him. And that's on the
macro level. On even on a local level, running for
mayor state reps or whatever, we simply don't support our candidates,
(11:54):
and then we feel like we're betrayed when they promote
the agendas and issues of the people who did fund them.
You see, yes, So because it didn't fit the narrative,
did you feel black ball with the partnering expression? You know,
you know I did. I did. But but you know what,
(12:18):
I'm gonna tell you something right about my personality, Like
you put me in a situation, and you know, like
some people that go after the weakest targets, I like challenges.
I'm a big game hunter. I knew what the obstacles
were gonna be before I embarked on that journey. I
knew they weren't gonna like what I had to say.
(12:40):
I knew they weren't gonna like me, but they can't
parade people like a d Ray McKesson, who was the
face of Black Lives Matter, and so he's an accurate
representation of the black struggle. See, I know that struggle.
I am a product of that struggle, you know, And
I've been on both size of that struggle. I've been
(13:01):
on the the negative in my youth and now on
the positive as an adult. So my my education is
well rounded when it comes to the issues and how
to really address them. A lot of these guys they
go to school and they learn things. They're indoctrinated. They're
not really educated. And that's what I do on Twitter.
(13:22):
I give them an education that goes against their indoctrination.
And that's why the backlash is so strong, which, by
the way, I should point out. On Amazon, this documentary
has a rating of four point five stars out of five,
so it's been very well reviewed and received, which should
obviously give you a lot of gratification. Off of that,
Why did you start off with the Freddy Gray situation
(13:44):
in Baltimore? Well, well, oh, so let me say that.
On Vimeo It's been seen in thirteen countries as well.
You know a lot of people they like it. But
you know, again, the narrative isn't the popular one now,
the Freddy racist I think it's important to you, Yes, yes,
thank you. You know, um, the Freddy Great situation. Well,
(14:08):
aside from wanting to tell the story, I had to
frame it in a narrative that was relative to the times,
that was current. And around the time I started And
let me also say that Twitter, social media inspired me
to make this film and most of the people that
(14:28):
are in the film were contacted through my social media presence,
so yeah, you know, and and around the time after
Obama's second term, this whole Black Lives Matter things started moving.
First of all, it was with um Trayvon Martin. Then
(14:51):
came Michael Brown. But because I live in the DC area,
the Freddy Freddy Gray situation was the closest to me,
you know what I mean, in proximity, and it was very,
very explosive those riots. Like I know people in Baltimore,
I'm familiar with Baltimore. I've been in and out of
(15:13):
Baltimore since the eighties. Baltimore is a very, very rough,
violent place, so when that happened, I knew it was
gonna be worse than anything that happened in Ferguson. You
know what I mean. Let me ask you this soon,
because I've always wanted to ask you this. Why is
it if you give a difference of opinion and I've
(15:35):
seen it on your timeline and it's not excuse me
going along with um whatever the narrative is at the moment.
Other fellow African Americans are quick to say coon in,
Uncle Tom and all the wise. That rhetoric always that's
that's the only it seems like the Victorian seems so well.
(15:56):
I'll let you answer, but let me say that at first,
that social media is not accurate representation of what's going
on in the world. A lot of those people are
paid provocateurs, you know, and I used them as a foil,
so to speak. I engaged them deliberately so I could
have an opportunity to say more things and more things.
(16:20):
And if you pay attention, my following keeps growing. I'm
shadow band on Twitter. On Twitter, people screenshot and send
me saying that my tweets aren't coming up on their
timeline even though they follow me. They have to literally
come to my page. You see. So if I'm the sellout,
why why is there so much effort and in censoring me?
(16:45):
You understand what I'm saying, yeah, and seeing the sellouts
are the ones who are making money off of trauma
and tragedy. I am not. As a matter of fact,
I've been offered situations to to do certain things for money,
and I feel like if I take the money, it'll
undermine my credibility. You understand, like I genuinely care about
(17:10):
the community. And when I say I care about the
black community, it's not like I only care about black people,
because that's not the case. I really feel that everyone
has an opinion on what's what's wrong with these people?
Why can't they get it together? That's just that I
want to. I want to help help the community as
(17:31):
best I can, because I believe charity starts at home,
and by helping the community, I'll be helping everybody else.
Because they seem to be so concerned about us. You know,
they talk about, uh, black kids are born out of
wedlock in New York City right now. Um, they're the
black abortion rate outpaces the birth rate. There's of the
(17:58):
prison population are black people and nobody's addressing any of that.
So if I want to speak on that rather than
speak on um, gender issues, feminist issues, those things. You know,
I'm not saying those issues aren't important, but they've got
(18:20):
nothing to do with me that they're not the priority
for me. You know, if I got a nail fungus
and a bullet hole, which one am I going to
attend to first? You understand what I'm talking. That's a
great example, and you can you put your money in
with your mouth, is with your with your business financing,
with the films and your employees. That's where it counts.
That's where it's really about the American and giving back.
(18:41):
So let me get your take on a group like
Black Lives Matter. What are your thoughts? Well, you got
a guy, d Ray McKesson. He's an openly gay black man.
He has a strong social media presence because he also
coincidentally has a really good relationship with the founder of Twitter.
(19:04):
Jack Dorsey. Is heated the individual that essentially started No,
he he isn't. He came to face. I don't know
how he face. It was started actually by two or
three black lesbian women. See and you'll see a consciant
theme when it comes to people who are anointed black leaders.
(19:24):
But anyway, Deray mckinsson interesting, Dray mckisson his his He
was granted credibility through social media and he met with
Obama at least five times in the White House to
talk about what who knows? Who is the guy? Because
(19:48):
that was to me, in my opinion, that was done
to validate him and present him as an authentic black
you know leader. He ran for me in Baltimore, in
the city that he's from, after the Freddy Gray thing.
He was one of the best funded candidates at a
fundraiser farm in New York Wall Street. You see, you
(20:10):
gotta connect the dots, look at where the money's coming from,
because I'm gonna get into something else in a little bit.
But he couldn't get three per cent of the vote
in his own city, super popular on Twitter, sat with
the president sitting president five times, and nobody in his
city know him. So it's a gross misrepresentation of what's
(20:33):
important to us and who represents us, and that motivated
me to make the film. You see our voice, it
is not it's not being heard right now. You've got
every black politician in Congress and the Senate have endorsed
um uh bill called HR two. What is that bill?
(21:00):
That bill is to expand the Civil Rights Act to
include gender issues, sexuality issues, and so on and so forth.
And again I have nothing against anybody dealing with those issues. However,
in nineteen sixty four, when the Civil Acts Civil Rights
Act was passed, no one was hanging gays, no one
(21:24):
was hosing gaze down, no one was sicking dogs on them.
It was it was passed specifically for us. And even
after it was passed, the greatest beneficiaries of the Civil
Rights Act were white women. So it's never been to
our benefit. As a matter of fact, if you want
to trace the destruction and dismantling of Black society and
(21:48):
the Black family, it begins with integration and the Civil
Rights Act. Since to bring the Civil Rights era. My
one of my favorite things about uh Dr Martin Luther
King as he was faith based obviously, and he came
from a place of faith. You you knew what was right,
(22:09):
you know it was wrong. That was essentially his infrastructure,
of of his of his teachings, right, I think, and
tell me if I'm wrong, I think he'd be met
with controversy today, it seems right, It seems like there's
almost like a war against Christianity and it's a bad word. Recently,
(22:29):
um there was tweets about the awful situation that happened
in Sri Lanka and they were they felt they were
praying for the hashtag Easter worshippers. You don't worship Easter.
There's no Easter to worship. That's Jesus, that's that's it's Christianity.
You're afraid to say the word. We've gotten to the
point where now Christianity, Christians are a controversial word. And
(22:51):
so I was thinking, man Dr King wouldn't would be
met with controversy today and might not have the impact
that he had. Am I wrong about that? No, you're
not wrong. Right before he died, Dr King has quoted
as saying he fears that he has integrated his people
into a burning house. You see. And and the thing
(23:13):
is the reason why there was such a shift and
dismantling of the black communities because prior to integration, we
had strong family values. See an integration, it stripped us
of that. What happened was the people who who backed
us with integration, we started adopting their values. And their
(23:36):
values tend to be anti family sometimes, you know, and
they push a whole lot of different things and we
and we are like the canary in the coal mine.
We are the the outcome of what happens when you
dismantle the patriarchy and so on and so forth. Prior,
prior to integration, although we had our problems with racism,
(24:00):
had more black entrepreneurs, more black families, more black fathers,
and all the things that we complain about today, we had.
But no one wants to acknowledge that we started losing
it with integration and why. It's not simply just the
racial factor. It's the fact that we started adopting the
value system of people who maybe maybe they had the
(24:23):
means that they could live those alternative lifestyles and so
on and so forth, and did not affect them as much.
But we weren't in that position. But it's fascinating because
because it really is about the nuclear family. You can't
teach a young man to be a man without a
father present. There. Only a father can really have that
(24:43):
sort of influence and impact on on an individual, so
that the importance of family is not And maybe it
goes back to the Christianity. But it's not. It's not
it seems like it's not a mandate, it's not celebrate
it's not even discussed, you know, h And it really
is that simple, right, That's amazing. Listen, my son right,
(25:07):
his mom sent him to live with me when he
was thirteen years old, and that was two years after
the incident with J. M J. So I was dealing
with my own personal term more and even in the
midst of that, I provided the proper guidance for him
(25:27):
to make him a man. He's twenty eight today. I
ain't been out line. I wouldn't look forward to that.
He's twenty eight to day. He has his own car
dealership business. He sells realistic he has a clothing line.
He graduated from college with no debt because I stayed
(25:47):
on him and made sure he got the Whope scholarship.
I didn't have the means at the time, but I
provided him the proper guidance. To this day, I don't
give him any money, but I give him all the
advice that I think young men need from all the
men who have walked the path that that's in front
of them. You know, absolutely, no, totally agree with that
(26:10):
I loved um dr W Randy short documentary What's his
back Story? Where'd you find that cat? He had some
great things to say. Here's the thing, right, even though
I had my views, I didn't want to make a
propaganda piece. I wanted objectivity, so I always looked for
opposing views. If you notice, I had pro black life.
(26:31):
Black lives matter so important. I love that. I love
hearing but and I love hearing him back to back
so they can say you can make your I'm not
biased at all, you know. But anyway, I saw Randy
on YouTube promoting Donald Trump. I said, I need a
black Trump supporter, you know. Yeah, So so I just
(26:56):
your producer had I dispatched my assist and he contacted
tracked Randy down. Randy happened to live in d C.
Randy's a fascinating guy. He went to Harvard Divinity School
and he was there when Obama was there, and Um
Randy gave me a perspective. He said things that a
(27:17):
lot of black people say privately, but they wouldn't go
on the record and say because they don't want to
lose their job. They don't. You don't understand you have
to have you have to have a certain viewpoint and
think and this this this town that's supposed to be
so inclusive and about diversity, they're all cool. Look unless
this diversity of thoughts right than than you're risking your
(27:39):
career coming to an hand. So so so Randy, Randy,
Now he said certain things, He touched on certain things
that um controversial, but they were accurate. He spoke about
Black lives matter in a way that turned out to
be real, you know. And also, Randy, he has to
(28:01):
be my favorite subject in the film from um from
a marketing standpoint, because his views set my film apart
from all the others that speak about the same things.
No other documentary filmmaker would put the content in there
(28:23):
that Randy provided and enrisch the scrutiny order or being
ostracized for it, you know, And it was Randy is
both problematic for my project, but I think in the
long run he'll be what makes the project stand out
(28:44):
because these things, it's like running a marathon. These things
have life forever and you never know when it's gonna
catch on, and they could. I'm looking to put it
in a university system at some point, because those are
the people that need to see this. They need to
see both sides to combat that indoctrination that they're getting,
because we know they're not. They're we're seeing one side
(29:06):
very clear from the professors and on why do you
think with both the black community that you know community
for that matter, it's sort of pounded in that you
gotta be a Democrats and they don't. They don't even
want you to entertain the other side. You touch upon it,
I know when you're films, but you know, um, I'm
(29:30):
a political and I just want to do what works,
and I want to I think I think what they
call it dog whistling and virtue signaling and all these things.
I think these things are easy. It's easy to appeal
(29:52):
to people's emotions and fears. It's easier to appeal to
their emotions and fears than to provide salute. And that's
why you have so much of that going on. You know, like, um,
when you look at the democratic field right now, what
do they have to like twenty candidates or something ridiculous
like that. They all are all they're all saying the
(30:12):
same thing, and they're not really standing out as far as, uh,
giving difference of opinions or even for their solutions, right,
But it seems like they're sort of up in the
annie saying the same thing. So I'm very it's it's
fascinating sort of to see. I'm curious how the primary
is going to be and when a debate happens when
(30:34):
you're saying the same thing, how do you how do you?
How do you stand out? Trump is getting reelected And
I've been saying that for a while and it doesn't
matter who's on the other side of that. They don't
have anybody because what they've done is they've conditioned the
voters to indulge in a popularity contest because they don't
(30:54):
have any answers for the issues. So it's about it's
gonna be some some random nonser, Uh, this one's for this,
Uh gave marriage and this one's for this one, and
things that the average person don't really doesn't it doesn't
affect them, you know, Trump, Trump is talking about the economy.
(31:17):
Who doesn't care about it? Even if you're gay, if
you go bro, you're gonna get divorced. They they still
gotta pay half to you. To me, to be a
good politician, you gotta deal with universal issues, not these
couture issues, you know. And speaking of politicians, you know,
(31:38):
in the film, there's um sonator Coleman, right, Coleman Young
out of Detroit. I end up backing him for Malia
and backed him when he ran again. Rashida ran against
Rashida Talib for congresswoman in the thirteenth district. And the
reason why I did that is because he was an outsider.
(31:58):
No one was giving him any support it and I
felt like through him, I could impact change in a
majority black, uh city like Detroit. You know. Any lost
both times, but I gave it a try, and I
put my money on the line, you know. And I
knew it was an uphill battle, but I still had
to give it a shot. And and and and we
(32:21):
have to support our candidates. I wanted to lead by example.
I don't just want to get up here and say
this to you and not do it myself. I took
I took losses and hits. I'm met Coleman when I
interviewed him for the film. His father was the first
black mayor Detroit and uh he was mayor for five terms.
And if you ever go to Detroit, I mean it's
(32:45):
not a nice place, man. It looks like a third
world country. You know, Trump would call it something else,
but still you know it's it's term. I mean blocks
of abandoned houses is yeah, they're going and take all
the pipes. How what a heat of everything that could
be sold? Right? Well, I don't know if you cruise
(33:07):
drowned out. We've got some tense cities going on San Francisco.
I happened. It was so ridiculous. The other day I
posted something that from their own local newscast. They put
out um essentially a map of where human feces has
been reported in the city, and the whole thing was covered.
(33:29):
It was like a hundred and eighteen thousand incidents. I
was like, oh my, who is just dropping in and
then dropping bombs right in the middle. How is that?
I was like, isn't that like the most expensive place
to live and that yet we have that. It's really
kind of scary on on a big level of what's
going on, because you know what automation and in artificial
(33:54):
intelligence and all these things a lot of jobs. There's
not a lot of room for unskilled label let me
say that, you know what I mean, And I don't
know what people are thinking. I don't know if they're
getting ready if they're you know, like I want to
see work done in the school system. I want to
see the kids learn to do cyber security and things
(34:17):
that are like in the twenty one century. All this
historical reenactments and these historical impersonators in this love affel
with nostalgia, this is gonna hurt us big time. Well,
I want I want to go have a couple of things,
uh with you here and get your take. Um uh
And again, Curtis, I love how as a kid you
(34:37):
went through whatever you went through. But I mean now
you know, you employ over fifty people and pretty impressive
as a just a street guy who who went didn't
go to college, and and uh m, now getting into
the film industry and now you have possible interest in
the city of Detroit with Dan Gilbert, who of course
is the owner of the Calves. Um, what's your what
are your thoughts on like the Nipsey Hustle situation? You know,
(35:00):
I didn't I didn't really know much about Nipsey. Um.
I saw a few interviews with him. He came across
to me as a a very intelligent guy, you know,
and um, from all reports they say he was an entrepreneur,
successful one. I mean, some of the numbers heard seemed
(35:22):
sort of fantastic to me. But you know, I don't know.
I just don't know. I think I saw Able du
Verne say Nipsey it is responsible for creating a quarter
of a million jobs. I mean, you know, I don't.
I don't know. I haven't done anything. I think it's
deaf as a tragedy. Um. Other than that, I don't
(35:46):
know what he was doing. It seems from what I know,
from where I stand, it seemed like it was positive.
It doesn't I don't really know the guy either, never
had the top tune in me. But I was like,
you know what, man, it made an extra tragic because
he was giving back to his community. It seemed like
he was doing well. But then damn it if if
somebody from your own hoods always take you out and
that's why you want to get out, you know, Lepsy.
(36:08):
I will say this because Nipsey was only thirty three, right, right,
And I remember when I was thirty three. You know,
it's kind of like that age when you come from
a place where he comes from, you're still kind of
in and out. You don't want to be totally distant, right,
and you don't want to know. I know because of
us that you don't even want that. You don't want
(36:29):
to look like a sellout to your homies. But at
the same out you're trying to kind of get out
but still keep a foot in. I know exactly what
you mean. You see. Now, at my age, I only
go places I need to go, and I don't deal
with people to deal with, right, exactly know. It's that
you're right, you get older. As I've gotten older, my
circle has gotten smaller and I've gotten happier. That's people
as drama, right, He was at that peculiar sort of age, right, Yeah,
(36:54):
I think a number two years and he might not
have been out there anymore. Right. It is unfortunate you
had a good laugh over this whole justse Smolette situation
and A from the beginning, I thought it sounded highly suspicious. Um,
and he's still I saw something the other day saying
he's still having night nightmares over the attack and my
man is not backing down. Well, you know, just is
(37:18):
a That whole story is called his ice. He's a
he's a sociopathic drama queen. He uh he He just
craves attention, man, you know, and um and people are
given it to him. Nobody believes, nobody would sense believe
that story. You know. But aside from the foolishness, you
(37:41):
gotta look at the people who are supporting him and
trying to cover him Kamala Harris wife, because it fits
the narrative too. He was checking off a lot of boxes, right,
He checks off a lot of boxes with the designated
spokespeople for the black community. You know what I mean?
These people are propped up. They don't represent our interests,
(38:05):
but they have a lot of protection and support. On
one hand, I heard he was making a hundred thousand
hours the episode for Empire. I was like, man, this
guy is lucky because he's not even a great actor.
You know what, well, he's definitely not a good producer.
(38:25):
He got two brothers that come to try to talk
about terms aboard to the bagpe losing skills are suspected.
The least so used too many props, got no creative
And this is the quality of opposition that Trump is facing.
Do you know, I didn't believe Trump was gonna win
in I did not, you know, I thought he had
(38:48):
a real good chance until the bus and he started
talking about grabbing, you know, and I was like, oh, man,
that might be that might be the blow. I was
actually surprised after that. Before that, I thought he had
a good shop. But after that, I go, oh, that's
that's gonna be it. I mean, you can't be talking
about that and you'd be a president. And shocked the
hell out of me after that. It's right, I never
took them seriously. I thought he was doing it as promotion,
(39:10):
SOE promote, you know. Oh. I think he surprised himself too,
and he's like, oh I might winnes you know, and
and and it was that same point was said in
the film. As a matter of fact. One person said
that that he was shocked that he wont But I
think what as a country, as a nation, we underestimated
how tired the people were. But what the other side
(39:33):
was doing that even with all his differences in outlandish
behavior and talk, people said, you know what, let's try
something different, right, And I think tired of being politically
correct and someone that obviously it wasn't his uh you know,
is articular polite as say you're you're but because I
(39:53):
think people, yeah, you're right. It was just sort of refreshing, right,
and they said, why won't we get this du to
show they they want to try something different. They didn't
like what they had, you know what I mean, say
went the other way and and also again not not
the harp on it, but I did make the film
as a voice for black people. I think we got
to stop looking for political solutions for social problems. You know,
(40:17):
those are things that we have to address within our
family structures and so forth. That's where it starts. Yeah,
a couple of things before it's two more things before
we have to wrap it up right here. Do you
think that Colin Kaepernick actually accomplish anything interview? I mean,
he got a book deal, that's what he accomplished. As
(40:38):
far as it caused, I don't even know what that's about.
I'm still not sure. I first I heard it was
about the anthem, the words of the ante anthem or racist,
and then for the police brutality. I don't know. To me,
it's political grandstanding. You're not gonna get the anthem changed
(41:01):
by doing that. You're not gonna stop police brutality by
doing that. So what are you trying to do over them?
To raise your own profile. You know, he has a
really good deal with Nike, got a book deal. They
gave him the Mohammed Ali Award or something like that.
I guess he said he did a lot of self
(41:22):
promotion there and took people on the ride. Do you
think it's interesting that he you never see him out
speaking about these causes. That's what's always I've found that.
I don't I don't, you know, I mean never, never, never.
I don't think. I don't think Kaepernick it is the
brightest bulb in the chandelier, and he's quiet for his
(41:44):
own protection. That's what I think. I think he couldn't
sit here and do what I'm doing with you right
now because he's not gonna be able to think on
his feet, because if he was, they would capitalize on it.
They would put him out there if he was sharp man,
Why wouldn't they use it? Why wouldn't they exploit it?
So I gotta I gotta question is intelligence? I do
(42:07):
alc Alexandro Casio Quartet. He's the star of the Democratic
Party and and and looks like the future is What
does that say about us as a society? Well, she
she represents um what they called millennials or whatever. Um.
(42:32):
I think her appeal it's primarily to people who feel
like this system, the way of doing things, this isn't
gonna work for them. It comes out of hopelessness. But
they just gotta do their job. Man, They gotta get
out of here and compete. If somebody like me with
(42:54):
my background, with the cloud that I have hanging over
my head, you know, can on the niche and make
a difference. They just have to be committed. They got
to stop posting on Instagram and and a whole of
They gotta get focused, you know what I mean, Like
they can't. And I'm talking about how constituents the people.
(43:15):
The socialism thing, I'm not a I'm not a I'm
not a fan of socialism at all. I'm not Capitalism
isn't perfect, But even socialism, to me, is funded by capitalism.
Venezuela sold its oil for all the socialist programs in
the world marketplace. You see what I'm saying. Is there
an example of when socialism has worked or been successful?
(43:38):
Not that, not that I know of none, You know
what I mean, It's embraced right now. I do believe
though in civilized societies we should have some some degree
of care the elderly, the sick, and so on and
so forth. You know, those things are those things are necessary.
We can't just be the lord of jungle, but to
(44:01):
make that the standard for everybody, I think that's gonna
it stagnates development of civilization and the individual competition is good.
I love to compete American way. Yeah, I love to
compete absolutely. Curtis Man, I could sit here and talk
to you for another couple of hours. You just gonna
(44:22):
have to come back. You're come busy right here. Congratulations
on on everything and uh and I mean that. And
listen if you haven't checked it out. The documentary Black
White and Blue, um directed by Asian Norris, who was
a friend of yours and produced by Mr Curtis Scoon,
is definitely a worthwhile watch. Really enjoyed speaking with you, sir. Okay,
(44:44):
and let them know what they can find it on.
Where did you tell them? Where can they find it? Yeah,
you gotta go on Black White and Blue film dot com.
You can find the film on Amazon and Vimeo right now,
and also check out the theme song I'm a songwriter
as well. Hold on now you're going next level with
the songwriter and follow him on Twitter. That's right, and
(45:09):
where can they follow you on Twitter? At Curtis School.
That's c U R T I S S c O
O and is a Nancy. Thank you sir? All right,
thank you, so don't forget a new episodes, and listen
to Mario dropping every Friday, all on Mario dot com
to catch up on the podcast, and please make sure
you follow listen to Mario on I Heart Radio and
(45:31):
subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts. More
fun next week. Thank you so much for listening
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