November 15, 2025 • 29 mins
Is MAGA dead? In Part Two, we continue our discussion of Laura Ingraham's interview of President Trump by breaking down the H-1B scam in a way that everyone else is missing. Note: Some adult language.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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(00:23):
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links to stay support what you love or goes away.
So we want to continue on with this interview that
Laura Ingram gave to President Trump, and it was a
pretty good interview, pretty revealing, kind of shows that he's
a little bit out of touch on things right now,
especially with this H one B visa issue. So this
(00:48):
is a continuation of this interview that Laura Ingram had
with Donald Trump and the topic of H one B
visas came up, and this was Trump's response, We.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Have potentially the greatest economy in the history of our country.
We have again Biden did in just a short period
of time. Biden couldn't raise anything, no investment. I think
investment went out of our country. I'm now at almost
eighteen trillion dollars in nine months. That's the biggest in
(01:18):
the history of the world. China's never done it, never
done anywhere near that. And all that money is coming in,
it's investment, it's building auto plants, it's building AI. Is
that way, by the way, we're leading China by a
lot on AI. We have potentially the greatest already it is.
But when these things open up, there's never going to
(01:39):
be a country like what we have right now. And
is that the Republicans have to talk about it a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And does that mean the H one B visa thing
will not be a big priority for your administration because
if you want to raise wages for American workers, you
can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We also do have to bring in talent when we country.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Talent, know you don't we don't have talent in no, you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Don't have you don't have certain talent. And you have
to people have to learn. You can't take people off
an unapplyment like an unemployment line and say I'm going
to put you into a factory who we're going to
make missiles or I'm going to.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Put do we ever do it before?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Well, And I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants. They
had people from from South Korea that need batteries all
their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's
not an easy thing and very dangerous. A lot of explosions,
a lot of problems. They had like five or six
hundred people early stages to make batteries and to teach
(02:38):
people how to do it well. They wanted them to
get out of the country. You're going to need that lure.
I mean, I know you and I disagree on this.
You can't just say a country's coming in, going to
invest ten billion dollars to build a plant and going
to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked
in five years, and they're going to start making their missiles.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So there's a lot there, especially this missiles argument that
he keeps making. Since when do foreign nationals make missiles?
I actually worked for a military contractor for several years,
for five years. There's no foreign nationals working on missiles. Okay.
That is just not something that you can hire. You
need a clearance, You need a government clearance to get
(03:20):
through and to work on these kinds of projects, and
none of those people are foreign nationals. Him making this
argument that you're going to have h one BVSA people
working on missiles is a ludicrous argument. It's a gas
lighting argument. It's like how he went to the hbcused
historically historically black colleges when making his argument for wanting
(03:41):
six hundred thousand Chinese nationals in our universities. It's ludicrous,
and I think that it's anybody that has a brain
that hears him say that is going to be frustrated
with that. Also, in regards to this battery plant that
he's talking about, I'm going to take put to the
side this talented people that we don't have talented people
(04:03):
here in the United States. I'm gonna chalk that up
to a misstatement. I think that you can make the
argument that he was saying that we don't have the
trained people to do what these manufacturing facilities because there
has just.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
Been no manufacturing in the United States for.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
How long now for it's been a while, So I'm
gonna be charitable on that comment. But in regards to
this Hyundai battery manufacturing facility out in Georgia, they got
raided by first of all, they got raided by his
ice and the reason why they got raided was because
they were doing manual labor. They had a visa that
(04:41):
didn't allow manual labor. Okay, manual labor is not skilled labor.
The H one B visa is for people that are
quote unquote highly skilled, and so if you're doing manual labor,
you're not highly skilled. So that was why ICE raided.
They looked into this and studied it four months and
(05:01):
they ended up going in there and I think it
was like three hundred, three hundred plus people that they
ended up you know, hauling out of there because they
were all of these Koreans, South Koreans that that that
Hyundai brought over here to work in that facturing facility.
If that's the case, then why in the hell are
we even fucking bringing the manufacturing back here to the
(05:22):
United States if we're just going to have South Korean
nationals working in the manufacturer Now. I understand if they
have some consultants there, I understand, if they have some
training people, some high level training people that are going
to train American workers, I get that. But when you
are primarily manned by South Korean nationals, that is not
(05:43):
what bringing manufacturing back to the United States means. Okay,
it's just not and so I think he's gaslighting people
on that. Also, some news that came forward that Trump's
company quietly sought out a record number of foreign workers
through various other kinds of visa programs into his businesses. Okay,
(06:06):
so it's not just skilled labor that you're bringing in.
This labor, it's cheaper labor. We did an episode on
this called Learned to Code, where we spoke to people
that one was a computer scientist or computer programmer that
had worked in the business for years that had to
train his replacement, his Indian replacement. We spoke to another
(06:27):
South African gentleman who was actually one of the visa recipients,
who argued that this H one B visa and similar
visas were a problematic and were being corrupted and we're
being used in a corrupt way. He was saying that
we should be getting rid of that visa. And this
was somebody that had benefited from it, someone that came
(06:47):
in the United States with it. He's a whistleblower. This
is why people like Nick Fuentis are so popular, is
when you have a president who has done a complete
one eighty on this. During twenty sixteen, he was all
against H one bbs. He continually spoke out against H
one B visas and saying that they were corrupt and
(07:08):
that we should be get rid of them.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
Well, first of all, I think, and I know the
H one be very well, and it's something that I
frankly use and I shouldn't be allowed to use. We
shouldn't have it. Very very bad for workers. And second
of all, I think it's very important to say, well,
I'm a businessman and I have to do what I
have to do, and it's sitting there waiting for you.
But it's very bad. It's very bad for business in
(07:30):
terms of it's very bad for our workers, and it's
unfair for our workers, and we should end it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Now that he had the Silicon Valley Bros. On his back,
he's been completely behind this and it's been a fiasco. Okay,
you have the VEC. We did a story we opened
up our What's an American series on this topic with
Vivek basically chastising the American people, calling them lazy, that
they aren't willing to work hard, they're basically not as
(07:56):
smart as some of these Indian H one B visas
that were coming in here. He made a huge push
and a huge art argument for H one bvsays because
the United States doesn't have the talent. It's a very
complicated issue. As someone that came from the STEM world
that worked, I got a master's and applied physics. I
worked in the aerospace business for years. I wanted that
(08:19):
to be my line of work. There was several reasons
that kind of pushed me out of that, one of
them being that there was no there's no loyalty. The
money that you could make in that space was nowhere
near what you could make on your own as an entrepreneur.
And the reason why is because of this H one
BV set was getting flooded. It was affecting the entire
engineering wages, even in the military contractor space. Because if
(08:42):
you're paying say it engineer eighty thousand dollars in the
military contracting space, and you look into the general public,
if those people started offering one ndred one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars for those jobs in the non military
based engineering jobs, of course it would have been a
brain drain away from from the military space. So of
(09:04):
course they kept all of the prices down all across
the board. Now I think that this has been such
a fiasco because now you have the vex's opponent for
governor in Ohio citing his tweet. They are literally taking
magas talking points the Democrats and running with it and
(09:25):
owning it. Now it is their topic. Now you have
AOC welcoming Trump supporters into her campaign. You have Mom Donnie.
The reason why Mom Donnie has became so popular is
because his focus is on America. I want to play
this clip for you guys really quickly. This was one
of the debates. This was kind of the turning point
for his debate and why he was taken more seriously.
(09:48):
In New York City, people were making a rational decision.
They saw the candidates that were out there in New
York City and they were asked a question, what will
be the first foreign government that you will visit once
you become mayor? And this was their responses.
Speaker 9 (10:03):
My first four visit by a mayor of New York
is always considered significant.
Speaker 10 (10:06):
Where would you go first first visit?
Speaker 6 (10:08):
I would visit the Holy Land.
Speaker 10 (10:10):
Boy, what Trump is doing to Canada, There's a lot
of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
For us to partner better with them.
Speaker 8 (10:15):
I'd love to meet Claudia Scheinbaum.
Speaker 9 (10:16):
But I probably head to Colombia, to my parents' homeland.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
I'd like to go to the Caribbean as my first visit.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I would go to Israel.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yeah, I'd make my fourth trip to Israel followed by
my fifth trip to Ukraine, two of our greatest allies.
I would stay in New York City.
Speaker 9 (10:30):
My plans are to address New Yorkers across the five
boroughs and focus on that.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, so here you have people are wondering why would
people vote for mom Donnie. You have each one of
these New York City mayoral candidates saying I'm going to
go to Israel. I'm going to go to Columbia, I'm
going to go Ukraine. I'm going to this is our
greatest ally. And he says I'm not going anywhere. I'm
staying right here in New York.
Speaker 7 (10:53):
Well played.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I mean, that is as maga as you get. And
the Democrats are just basically taking this maga message and
now owning it.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Now we've got Trump basically simping for H one.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
B visas you know, and I think Eric Weinstein has
been a really good voice on this. He spoke about
you know, H one b's and the kind of history
behind them, And we talked about that in our What's
an American series? If you haven't heard it, go check
it out. We kind of tell the story behind H
one b's in one of the later episodes in that series.
But they were it was basically a plan by industry
(11:34):
to lower the cost of engineers. That is why H
one B came in. They faked a shortage of engineers
and then they started slowly bringing them in and then
flooding the system, which is why now when you get
Silicon Valley, how most of the workers there are foreign born.
It's an astronomical amount of people there are either immigrants
(11:56):
or on H one B visas. So now you have
the administration coming out to kind of battle against this,
and the White House sent out Treasury Secretary Bisent to
talk about this plan and kind of trying to maybe
walk it back a little bit or some or somehow
kind of softened Trump's word from the interview. And this
is what Biscent said.
Speaker 9 (12:16):
There's twenty thirty years we have all short precision manufacturing jobs.
And the President's point here is we again, we can't
snap our fingers and say you're going to learn how
to build ships overnight. We want to bring semiconductor industry
back to the US. There will be big facilities in Arizona.
So I think the president's vision here is to bring
(12:40):
in overseas workers where these jobs went to have skills,
who have the skills, three five, seven years to train
the US workers. Then they can go home the US
workers fully takeover.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
So that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You understand the concern that people have, Hey, an American
can have that job, why you.
Speaker 10 (12:58):
Give it to it?
Speaker 6 (12:59):
But an American can have that job so specific skills,
because we haven't built ships in the US for years,
we haven't built semiconductors. So this idea of overseas partners
coming in teaching American workers then returning home, that's a
home run.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Got chat.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, So there's a lot that he said there, and
I'm going to give him a little bit of grace
with some of it. But some of it I think
is completely erroneous. You know, he's saying that he's using
shipbuilding as an example. All Right, some of the biggest
shipbuilders are not from India. So why are seventy plus
percent of these h one B workers from India when
(13:37):
they did this raid of this Hyundai battery plant. We
didn't hear stories about how they were These people were
training Americans. They were there to work. They were there
to build the plant and get the plant ready to open.
They weren't their training. And as we've seen throughout history
of the United States, these people end up staying. They
end up staying. We have an astronomical amount of H
(14:00):
one B workers here that are taking American jobs that
aren't here to just train. They're here to work. It's
cheaper labor, it's slave labor. In order for them to
stay here in the United States. They work ridiculous hours.
It drives down the working conditions for American workers. It
drives down the cost for American workers. A lot of
times they'll get miscategorized and they'll do a certain kind
(14:24):
of high level work but be listed as a lower
level job. Because they are, they want to pay them less.
If we were really if H one b's were really
used to bring in the most skilled workers, why are
seventy plus percent coming from India. Why don't we see
a percentage coming from Germany, and a percentage coming from Poland,
(14:44):
and a percentage coming from England and a percentage coming
from any number of other countries. Why seventy plus percent
coming from India. Why ten to fifteen percent coming from China?
And if these H one visas were so valuable, if
(15:05):
they were, they brought in so many incredible minds and
incredibly thinking people and incredibly skilled people, why isn't China
doing infinity Indian H one B visas over there. It's
because it's a bunch of bullshit. It's a bullshit line
that has been fed to the American public for decades,
and people are furious over this, and they're frustrated over this.
(15:28):
This is why people jumped on the Trump train, bring
manufacturing home, to drive up job growth here in the
United States, get rid of illegal immigrants, to focus on
the American people, and to constantly be fed this gas
lighting from even this administration, even this administration that has
been viewed as the hardline administration. You know what, you
(15:50):
cannot be upset when somebody like a Nick went has
comes onto the scene because we tried the Trump route,
and now the American public is saying, maybe we need
to go even hardliner, Maybe we need to to go
harder on this issue because our guy Trump is even
gaslighting us on this. They send out people like Kevin O'Leary. Okay,
(16:12):
Kevin O'Leary is a big kind of Trump proponent. He
goes out there into the American media and speaks about
Trump's policies and is usually a proponent of Trump's He's
usually the person on the panel that argues for Trump's position.
Speaker 7 (16:27):
If you're not familiar with Kevin O'Leary, he's also on
Shark Tank. He's one of the main guys from Shark Tank.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I believe yes. Here he is talking about H one
b's and how if America doesn't take H one b's
then China will take them.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Reality and legal or number one economy on Earth, the
American economy, how is it built immigration? Look after the
second word warl the scientists we brought into this country.
We curate the best, We bring them here to create
jobs and companies. What's going on right now in policy
that I don't agree with is I teach at Harvard
and MIT and many other colleges. If we don't bring
(17:06):
we curate these amazing students from all over the world,
and we bring them into a cohort to train them
how to become entrepreneurs in America. They want to stay.
If we don't do it, the Chinese will. So I'm
just saying, let's figure this out. Do we want the
Chinese to train them or do we want them? We
want them, every single one of them. Okay, let's say
(17:29):
he want them to get their passports and their families
get passports, their create jobs, and I will invest in them,
every single one of them.
Speaker 11 (17:38):
Ask a real quick question. One hundred thousand dollars per
H one B Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Nuts?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Okay, first of all, Kevin Mary, who in the fuck
are you to say we all right? You're not even
an American citizen. He has three citizenships. He's a citizen
of Canada, he's a citizen of Ireland, and he's a
citizen of the United Arab Emirates. Okay, the UAE, How
in the fuck is he saying we need to bring
(18:05):
in these H one B visas into the United States.
Why in the fuck is this guy on a panel
on CNN making that argument about the United States. The
man is not even an American and he's criticizing the
American public that is pushing back on this policy. Fuck
this guy, I'm sorry that I'm getting like that. But
(18:26):
I'm looking at these kinds of people that go out
there into the American public and act like they're Americans,
and they're not. This guy is pushing policies that are
taking away jobs from the American people. He's going out
there on the airwaves making erroneous arguments. Here he is
again in this same panel, going on and saying that
(18:47):
the H one B visas bring in geniuses.
Speaker 11 (18:50):
I do think the H one B program needs some attention,
It needs some degree of reform.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Often sign signed to come to America or to Shanghai.
What do you want?
Speaker 10 (19:01):
It's about fidding for telling up here we're brilliant.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
I'm not fighting against an H one B visa, Folks.
I'm the daughter of immigrants. Both my parents are naturalized
citizens of this country.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
You should be.
Speaker 11 (19:10):
I am saying there are real concerns that people have
about companies that abuse the system.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
We're talking about genius bringing sixty five thousand geniuses to America.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Kevin, you know, okay, they're not geniuses. That is a
completely different visa. H one B visa doesn't bring in geniuses.
There are completely separate visas for that. There's the one
and the EB one A. Okay, So this guy can't
even get it right. He's making erroneous arguments. He's coming
(19:44):
on the American airwaves and and spewing lies to the public,
and he's making arguments as if China is going to
take these people. China is not going infinity h one
b Okay, They're not doing that. They know that they
can't do that because they have to care of their people.
That's the model there, and that model in many ways
(20:08):
is superior to ours in regards to taking care of
your people. They're nationalists. This man looks at America as
an economic zone. He's not an American, He's a Canadian.
So I want to continue this conversation about this h
one b v says and about some other people that
are coming to Trump's defense, because what you're starting to
(20:29):
see now is there's a separation now on the right.
We've spoke about this now for a couple of weeks.
There is kind of this fight for the heart of
the right right now that's happening, and these two factions
that are fighting for the heart of the right are
landing on two different sides of this issue. And I
think you're starting to see these kind of battle lines created,
and we're going to get to that right after the break.
(20:54):
You're listening to Red Pilled America's Vamboogie Join the Fambam.
Go to Redpilled America dot com and click join in
the top menu. We need you guys support, so close
out this conversation about the H one b's because you're
starting to see this fault line being created by the
factions that are fighting for the heart of the Republican Party.
But you're also seeing the Democrats take these maga issues.
(21:18):
This interview that we just played for you guys with
Abby Phillips from CNN, she sounded maga over Kevin O'Leary, who,
by the way, is not an American citizen. If you guys
have got the drift on that one. She sounds like
the mega person basically saying that these H one B
visas need reform, that they are being used improperly, while
(21:42):
Kevin O'Leary is saying that it brings in geniuses, which
it doesn't.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Listen, If the Republicans don't change course on this, we
are going to lose the White House next time around,
because the Democrats are sounding very very maga when Abby
Phillips from CNN sounds totally reasonable. We have a problem on.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The right, serious problem. And when you have AOC basically
welcoming Trump supporters into her camp, she is seeing the
opportunity right now. You know they're going but they're going
to fill that void with Marxist populism, Okay, with far
left populism instead of right wing populism that Trump that
(22:25):
got Trump to the White House. And you see it
time and time again. You cannot make the argument that
these H one BV says are purely for skilled workers
and bringing in the best and the brightest from around
the world and the geniuses. When seventy one percent are
from India, ten to fifteen percent are from China, and
then you get like one percent from Philippines, one percent
(22:50):
from South Korea, and eighty plus percent of them are
for entry level and junior level jobs. How are these
people the highly skilled people that are training American people,
American workers. This is data that's out there, that's put
out there by the American government. It's very well known
(23:10):
that these are not highly skilled people. It's constantly gamed.
Here is a veteran from Silicon Valley speaking about that
Palmer Lucky, who's kind of famous for creating those virtual
reality headsets that Meta ended up buying. He ended up
going onto the Facebook board and then got fired or
got pushed out for supporting Trump and donating to Republican candidates.
(23:33):
Here is him speaking about the H one B visa
and how it's being gamed in Silicon Valley.
Speaker 10 (23:38):
Of course, there's so much H one B of use.
You would not believe what I saw when I was
in Silicon Valley. It's it is insane. It's obviously a
program to try and replace US workers with basically slave
labor that can't ever escape, like the H one B
abuse is crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So he's very clear there anyone that speaks frankly on it.
He's one of those kinds of guys that can do
that because he's been already been canceled by Silicon Valley,
so he can speak freely about it now. Of course,
you have people like Denesh Desosa Desusa, however the hell
you pronounce his name coming forward, Indian Chap that's been
here for a while. He came forward and said that
(24:14):
Americans are basically lazy and stupid as well. He went
to the Vivek Ramaswami route when he posted this on
the H one bs from MAGA sources, I learned that
our students have zero attention span, can't do simple math,
possess no critical reasoning skills, have serious behavioral issues, and
are three to four years behind in cognitive development. Are
(24:38):
these the best in the world, whiz kids who can
ace any job? That's Denesh Desosa. That's what he thinks
about the American worker. Okay, but for some reason, India
has all of the most skilled people in the world.
Seventy one percent of our H one b's come from there.
Can they create a government in their country that is dominant? No,
(25:03):
of course they can't. Denesh, don't talk about American people
in that regard when you know that this H one
B visa is being abused to basically replace American workers
with cheaper labor.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Here's the thing. It's lucrative to jump on this narrative. Okay,
if you're in conservative media and you jump on this narrative,
it seems to do pretty well for you. Truth telling,
not lucrats, not.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So much, not so much. You also have Ben Shapiro
coming out in favor of these H one B visas
This is Ben Shapiro speaking on this topic.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
There are in fact certain positions in the United States
that require a level of expertise that may not be
reachable in the numbers that are currently being turned out
by American universities. That is a shortcoming of our educational system,
and it is a problem, and so you can say
we should up our game education. I agree, we should
absolutely up our game educationally. But in the meantime, if
you do not bring in the labor supply, particularly to tech,
(26:01):
tech will go find the labor supply, and so what
you will end up with is in office that was
employing thirty Americans and three h onebvisa people. If the
cost grow too high, simply moving to another country where
they hire thirty Indians and zero Americans. Right, this is
the problem with the reason companies offshore is not because
it's easy or fun to simply move your company somewhere else.
(26:23):
It's because the labor cost becomes so prohibitive in the
United States that companies move away, and you can try
to teariff them back, but all that does is artificially
raise the price on Americans. Again, we're talking about affordability.
There are trade offs in economics, autarchy comes with the
fun feeling that everybody in America is making American product.
It comes with the very large downside their products are
economically inefficient, they don't work as well, and you're not
(26:45):
globally competitive.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
All right, So there he is making the argument for
h one BV says, of course they are clearly taking
American jobs. You have one point two million Americans graduated
from college this in twenty twenty four. The data that's
come out on that, eight hundred and sixty eight thousand
of them found jobs by the October twenty twenty four timeframe.
The rest did not. So that's what over almost four
(27:09):
hundred thousand people that did not find jobs from their
graduation let's say of June to October two thousand and
twenty four, but in that time four hundred thousand h
one bs are approved. So it's almost a direct correlation
there between almost four hundred thousand Americans not finding jobs
in that timeframe and four hundred thousand, h one b
(27:31):
people finding jobs and being approved. So I don't think
there's any shortage of American workers skilled American workers. And
by the way, I wonder if Ben Shapiro would be
a proponent of this in Israel, bringing in all of
these Indian h one bs into Israel and then eventually
having a pathway to citizenship. Because I guarantee you and
(27:54):
I know because I looked into this, they don't have
a similar program. They have a foreign visa worker program
with no path to being an American city. Isn't our
h onebvs A program has a path to become an
American citizen. And that is also part of this problem.
It's not just the fact that we are displacing American workers.
(28:14):
It is also a long term thing because these people
eventually end up becoming American citizens.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
Well, I know exactly what Ben Shapiro would say to you.
He'd say, you're being very anti Semitic right now.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
He definitely would, So, I mean, and so you have
that he's saying. And this is the other argument that
they make is that, oh, we're brain draining these other
countries and that's good, We're bringing the smart people here.
Or we've already made the argument and the data is
very clear on that that it's not the smart people.
But why do we want to braindrain these other countries?
Why should we not want them to improve their countries,
(28:50):
so we don't have so many immigrants coming over here
make their countries better. Why do we want to brain
drain them? We want to drain them of their resources.
How is that a moral value that we're going to
drain these people of their smart people? The logic there
(29:11):
is a corporatist logic. It's somebody that cares about and
views the United States as a corporation, as an economic
zone as rather than a people with a shared culture
and with land that they love and with families that
they want to build and provide for. It's just a
(29:31):
completely different mindset. And this is where we're starting to
see this fault line happen amongst the Republican and amongst
the right. And I want to get into that. I
want to dig into that more in a part three
of Fambogie. So join us over there, because the fault
lines have been drawn, and.
Speaker 7 (29:52):
Let me promise you this, we have saved the very
best for last. So you are definitely going to want
to listen to part three of this week's Famboogie
This is Red Pilled America. You're listening to Red Pilled
America's Fambobbie. Join the fanban you add free access to
all of our back catalog what a red Pilled America
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(00:23):
storytelling that aligns with your viewpoint, guys, or like Adriana
links to stay support what you love or goes away.
So we want to continue on with this interview that
Laura Ingram gave to President Trump, and it was a
pretty good interview, pretty revealing, kind of shows that he's
a little bit out of touch on things right now,
especially with this H one B visa issue. So this
(00:48):
is a continuation of this interview that Laura Ingram had
with Donald Trump and the topic of H one B
visas came up, and this was Trump's response, We.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Have potentially the greatest economy in the history of our country.
We have again Biden did in just a short period
of time. Biden couldn't raise anything, no investment. I think
investment went out of our country. I'm now at almost
eighteen trillion dollars in nine months. That's the biggest in
(01:18):
the history of the world. China's never done it, never
done anywhere near that. And all that money is coming in,
it's investment, it's building auto plants, it's building AI. Is
that way, by the way, we're leading China by a
lot on AI. We have potentially the greatest already it is.
But when these things open up, there's never going to
(01:39):
be a country like what we have right now. And
is that the Republicans have to talk about it a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And does that mean the H one B visa thing
will not be a big priority for your administration because
if you want to raise wages for American workers, you
can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We also do have to bring in talent when we country.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Talent, know you don't we don't have talent in no, you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Don't have you don't have certain talent. And you have
to people have to learn. You can't take people off
an unapplyment like an unemployment line and say I'm going
to put you into a factory who we're going to
make missiles or I'm going to.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Put do we ever do it before?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Well, And I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants. They
had people from from South Korea that need batteries all
their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's
not an easy thing and very dangerous. A lot of explosions,
a lot of problems. They had like five or six
hundred people early stages to make batteries and to teach
(02:38):
people how to do it well. They wanted them to
get out of the country. You're going to need that lure.
I mean, I know you and I disagree on this.
You can't just say a country's coming in, going to
invest ten billion dollars to build a plant and going
to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked
in five years, and they're going to start making their missiles.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So there's a lot there, especially this missiles argument that
he keeps making. Since when do foreign nationals make missiles?
I actually worked for a military contractor for several years,
for five years. There's no foreign nationals working on missiles. Okay.
That is just not something that you can hire. You
need a clearance, You need a government clearance to get
(03:20):
through and to work on these kinds of projects, and
none of those people are foreign nationals. Him making this
argument that you're going to have h one BVSA people
working on missiles is a ludicrous argument. It's a gas
lighting argument. It's like how he went to the hbcused
historically historically black colleges when making his argument for wanting
(03:41):
six hundred thousand Chinese nationals in our universities. It's ludicrous,
and I think that it's anybody that has a brain
that hears him say that is going to be frustrated
with that. Also, in regards to this battery plant that
he's talking about, I'm going to take put to the
side this talented people that we don't have talented people
(04:03):
here in the United States. I'm gonna chalk that up
to a misstatement. I think that you can make the
argument that he was saying that we don't have the
trained people to do what these manufacturing facilities because there
has just.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
Been no manufacturing in the United States for.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
How long now for it's been a while, So I'm
gonna be charitable on that comment. But in regards to
this Hyundai battery manufacturing facility out in Georgia, they got
raided by first of all, they got raided by his
ice and the reason why they got raided was because
they were doing manual labor. They had a visa that
(04:41):
didn't allow manual labor. Okay, manual labor is not skilled labor.
The H one B visa is for people that are
quote unquote highly skilled, and so if you're doing manual labor,
you're not highly skilled. So that was why ICE raided.
They looked into this and studied it four months and
(05:01):
they ended up going in there and I think it
was like three hundred, three hundred plus people that they
ended up you know, hauling out of there because they
were all of these Koreans, South Koreans that that that
Hyundai brought over here to work in that facturing facility.
If that's the case, then why in the hell are
we even fucking bringing the manufacturing back here to the
(05:22):
United States if we're just going to have South Korean
nationals working in the manufacturer Now. I understand if they
have some consultants there, I understand, if they have some
training people, some high level training people that are going
to train American workers, I get that. But when you
are primarily manned by South Korean nationals, that is not
(05:43):
what bringing manufacturing back to the United States means. Okay,
it's just not and so I think he's gaslighting people
on that. Also, some news that came forward that Trump's
company quietly sought out a record number of foreign workers
through various other kinds of visa programs into his businesses. Okay,
(06:06):
so it's not just skilled labor that you're bringing in.
This labor, it's cheaper labor. We did an episode on
this called Learned to Code, where we spoke to people
that one was a computer scientist or computer programmer that
had worked in the business for years that had to
train his replacement, his Indian replacement. We spoke to another
(06:27):
South African gentleman who was actually one of the visa recipients,
who argued that this H one B visa and similar
visas were a problematic and were being corrupted and we're
being used in a corrupt way. He was saying that
we should be getting rid of that visa. And this
was somebody that had benefited from it, someone that came
(06:47):
in the United States with it. He's a whistleblower. This
is why people like Nick Fuentis are so popular, is
when you have a president who has done a complete
one eighty on this. During twenty sixteen, he was all
against H one bbs. He continually spoke out against H
one B visas and saying that they were corrupt and
(07:08):
that we should be get rid of them.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
Well, first of all, I think, and I know the
H one be very well, and it's something that I
frankly use and I shouldn't be allowed to use. We
shouldn't have it. Very very bad for workers. And second
of all, I think it's very important to say, well,
I'm a businessman and I have to do what I
have to do, and it's sitting there waiting for you.
But it's very bad. It's very bad for business in
(07:30):
terms of it's very bad for our workers, and it's
unfair for our workers, and we should end it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Now that he had the Silicon Valley Bros. On his back,
he's been completely behind this and it's been a fiasco. Okay,
you have the VEC. We did a story we opened
up our What's an American series on this topic with
Vivek basically chastising the American people, calling them lazy, that
they aren't willing to work hard, they're basically not as
(07:56):
smart as some of these Indian H one B visas
that were coming in here. He made a huge push
and a huge art argument for H one bvsays because
the United States doesn't have the talent. It's a very
complicated issue. As someone that came from the STEM world
that worked, I got a master's and applied physics. I
worked in the aerospace business for years. I wanted that
(08:19):
to be my line of work. There was several reasons
that kind of pushed me out of that, one of
them being that there was no there's no loyalty. The
money that you could make in that space was nowhere
near what you could make on your own as an entrepreneur.
And the reason why is because of this H one
BV set was getting flooded. It was affecting the entire
engineering wages, even in the military contractor space. Because if
(08:42):
you're paying say it engineer eighty thousand dollars in the
military contracting space, and you look into the general public,
if those people started offering one ndred one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars for those jobs in the non military
based engineering jobs, of course it would have been a
brain drain away from from the military space. So of
(09:04):
course they kept all of the prices down all across
the board. Now I think that this has been such
a fiasco because now you have the vex's opponent for
governor in Ohio citing his tweet. They are literally taking
magas talking points the Democrats and running with it and
(09:25):
owning it. Now it is their topic. Now you have
AOC welcoming Trump supporters into her campaign. You have Mom Donnie.
The reason why Mom Donnie has became so popular is
because his focus is on America. I want to play
this clip for you guys really quickly. This was one
of the debates. This was kind of the turning point
for his debate and why he was taken more seriously.
(09:48):
In New York City, people were making a rational decision.
They saw the candidates that were out there in New
York City and they were asked a question, what will
be the first foreign government that you will visit once
you become mayor? And this was their responses.
Speaker 9 (10:03):
My first four visit by a mayor of New York
is always considered significant.
Speaker 10 (10:06):
Where would you go first first visit?
Speaker 6 (10:08):
I would visit the Holy Land.
Speaker 10 (10:10):
Boy, what Trump is doing to Canada, There's a lot
of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
For us to partner better with them.
Speaker 8 (10:15):
I'd love to meet Claudia Scheinbaum.
Speaker 9 (10:16):
But I probably head to Colombia, to my parents' homeland.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
I'd like to go to the Caribbean as my first visit.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I would go to Israel.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yeah, I'd make my fourth trip to Israel followed by
my fifth trip to Ukraine, two of our greatest allies.
I would stay in New York City.
Speaker 9 (10:30):
My plans are to address New Yorkers across the five
boroughs and focus on that.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, so here you have people are wondering why would
people vote for mom Donnie. You have each one of
these New York City mayoral candidates saying I'm going to
go to Israel. I'm going to go to Columbia, I'm
going to go Ukraine. I'm going to this is our
greatest ally. And he says I'm not going anywhere. I'm
staying right here in New York.
Speaker 7 (10:53):
Well played.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I mean, that is as maga as you get. And
the Democrats are just basically taking this maga message and
now owning it.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Now we've got Trump basically simping for H one.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
B visas you know, and I think Eric Weinstein has
been a really good voice on this. He spoke about
you know, H one b's and the kind of history
behind them, And we talked about that in our What's
an American series? If you haven't heard it, go check
it out. We kind of tell the story behind H
one b's in one of the later episodes in that series.
But they were it was basically a plan by industry
(11:34):
to lower the cost of engineers. That is why H
one B came in. They faked a shortage of engineers
and then they started slowly bringing them in and then
flooding the system, which is why now when you get
Silicon Valley, how most of the workers there are foreign born.
It's an astronomical amount of people there are either immigrants
(11:56):
or on H one B visas. So now you have
the administration coming out to kind of battle against this,
and the White House sent out Treasury Secretary Bisent to
talk about this plan and kind of trying to maybe
walk it back a little bit or some or somehow
kind of softened Trump's word from the interview. And this
is what Biscent said.
Speaker 9 (12:16):
There's twenty thirty years we have all short precision manufacturing jobs.
And the President's point here is we again, we can't
snap our fingers and say you're going to learn how
to build ships overnight. We want to bring semiconductor industry
back to the US. There will be big facilities in Arizona.
So I think the president's vision here is to bring
(12:40):
in overseas workers where these jobs went to have skills,
who have the skills, three five, seven years to train
the US workers. Then they can go home the US
workers fully takeover.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
So that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You understand the concern that people have, Hey, an American
can have that job, why you.
Speaker 10 (12:58):
Give it to it?
Speaker 6 (12:59):
But an American can have that job so specific skills,
because we haven't built ships in the US for years,
we haven't built semiconductors. So this idea of overseas partners
coming in teaching American workers then returning home, that's a
home run.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Got chat.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, So there's a lot that he said there, and
I'm going to give him a little bit of grace
with some of it. But some of it I think
is completely erroneous. You know, he's saying that he's using
shipbuilding as an example. All Right, some of the biggest
shipbuilders are not from India. So why are seventy plus
percent of these h one B workers from India when
(13:37):
they did this raid of this Hyundai battery plant. We
didn't hear stories about how they were These people were
training Americans. They were there to work. They were there
to build the plant and get the plant ready to open.
They weren't their training. And as we've seen throughout history
of the United States, these people end up staying. They
end up staying. We have an astronomical amount of H
(14:00):
one B workers here that are taking American jobs that
aren't here to just train. They're here to work. It's
cheaper labor, it's slave labor. In order for them to
stay here in the United States. They work ridiculous hours.
It drives down the working conditions for American workers. It
drives down the cost for American workers. A lot of
times they'll get miscategorized and they'll do a certain kind
(14:24):
of high level work but be listed as a lower
level job. Because they are, they want to pay them less.
If we were really if H one b's were really
used to bring in the most skilled workers, why are
seventy plus percent coming from India. Why don't we see
a percentage coming from Germany, and a percentage coming from Poland,
(14:44):
and a percentage coming from England and a percentage coming
from any number of other countries. Why seventy plus percent
coming from India. Why ten to fifteen percent coming from China?
And if these H one visas were so valuable, if
(15:05):
they were, they brought in so many incredible minds and
incredibly thinking people and incredibly skilled people, why isn't China
doing infinity Indian H one B visas over there. It's
because it's a bunch of bullshit. It's a bullshit line
that has been fed to the American public for decades,
and people are furious over this, and they're frustrated over this.
(15:28):
This is why people jumped on the Trump train, bring
manufacturing home, to drive up job growth here in the
United States, get rid of illegal immigrants, to focus on
the American people, and to constantly be fed this gas
lighting from even this administration, even this administration that has
been viewed as the hardline administration. You know what, you
(15:50):
cannot be upset when somebody like a Nick went has
comes onto the scene because we tried the Trump route,
and now the American public is saying, maybe we need
to go even hardliner, Maybe we need to to go
harder on this issue because our guy Trump is even
gaslighting us on this. They send out people like Kevin O'Leary. Okay,
(16:12):
Kevin O'Leary is a big kind of Trump proponent. He
goes out there into the American media and speaks about
Trump's policies and is usually a proponent of Trump's He's
usually the person on the panel that argues for Trump's position.
Speaker 7 (16:27):
If you're not familiar with Kevin O'Leary, he's also on
Shark Tank. He's one of the main guys from Shark Tank.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I believe yes. Here he is talking about H one
b's and how if America doesn't take H one b's
then China will take them.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Reality and legal or number one economy on Earth, the
American economy, how is it built immigration? Look after the
second word warl the scientists we brought into this country.
We curate the best, We bring them here to create
jobs and companies. What's going on right now in policy
that I don't agree with is I teach at Harvard
and MIT and many other colleges. If we don't bring
(17:06):
we curate these amazing students from all over the world,
and we bring them into a cohort to train them
how to become entrepreneurs in America. They want to stay.
If we don't do it, the Chinese will. So I'm
just saying, let's figure this out. Do we want the
Chinese to train them or do we want them? We
want them, every single one of them. Okay, let's say
(17:29):
he want them to get their passports and their families
get passports, their create jobs, and I will invest in them,
every single one of them.
Speaker 11 (17:38):
Ask a real quick question. One hundred thousand dollars per
H one B Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Nuts?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Okay, first of all, Kevin Mary, who in the fuck
are you to say we all right? You're not even
an American citizen. He has three citizenships. He's a citizen
of Canada, he's a citizen of Ireland, and he's a
citizen of the United Arab Emirates. Okay, the UAE, How
in the fuck is he saying we need to bring
(18:05):
in these H one B visas into the United States.
Why in the fuck is this guy on a panel
on CNN making that argument about the United States. The
man is not even an American and he's criticizing the
American public that is pushing back on this policy. Fuck
this guy, I'm sorry that I'm getting like that. But
(18:26):
I'm looking at these kinds of people that go out
there into the American public and act like they're Americans,
and they're not. This guy is pushing policies that are
taking away jobs from the American people. He's going out
there on the airwaves making erroneous arguments. Here he is
again in this same panel, going on and saying that
(18:47):
the H one B visas bring in geniuses.
Speaker 11 (18:50):
I do think the H one B program needs some attention,
It needs some degree of reform.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Often sign signed to come to America or to Shanghai.
What do you want?
Speaker 10 (19:01):
It's about fidding for telling up here we're brilliant.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
I'm not fighting against an H one B visa, Folks.
I'm the daughter of immigrants. Both my parents are naturalized
citizens of this country.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
You should be.
Speaker 11 (19:10):
I am saying there are real concerns that people have
about companies that abuse the system.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
We're talking about genius bringing sixty five thousand geniuses to America.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Kevin, you know, okay, they're not geniuses. That is a
completely different visa. H one B visa doesn't bring in geniuses.
There are completely separate visas for that. There's the one
and the EB one A. Okay, So this guy can't
even get it right. He's making erroneous arguments. He's coming
(19:44):
on the American airwaves and and spewing lies to the public,
and he's making arguments as if China is going to
take these people. China is not going infinity h one
b Okay, They're not doing that. They know that they
can't do that because they have to care of their people.
That's the model there, and that model in many ways
(20:08):
is superior to ours in regards to taking care of
your people. They're nationalists. This man looks at America as
an economic zone. He's not an American, He's a Canadian.
So I want to continue this conversation about this h
one b v says and about some other people that
are coming to Trump's defense, because what you're starting to
(20:29):
see now is there's a separation now on the right.
We've spoke about this now for a couple of weeks.
There is kind of this fight for the heart of
the right right now that's happening, and these two factions
that are fighting for the heart of the right are
landing on two different sides of this issue. And I
think you're starting to see these kind of battle lines created,
and we're going to get to that right after the break.
(20:54):
You're listening to Red Pilled America's Vamboogie Join the Fambam.
Go to Redpilled America dot com and click join in
the top menu. We need you guys support, so close
out this conversation about the H one b's because you're
starting to see this fault line being created by the
factions that are fighting for the heart of the Republican Party.
But you're also seeing the Democrats take these maga issues.
(21:18):
This interview that we just played for you guys with
Abby Phillips from CNN, she sounded maga over Kevin O'Leary, who,
by the way, is not an American citizen. If you guys
have got the drift on that one. She sounds like
the mega person basically saying that these H one B
visas need reform, that they are being used improperly, while
(21:42):
Kevin O'Leary is saying that it brings in geniuses, which
it doesn't.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Listen, If the Republicans don't change course on this, we
are going to lose the White House next time around,
because the Democrats are sounding very very maga when Abby
Phillips from CNN sounds totally reasonable. We have a problem on.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The right, serious problem. And when you have AOC basically
welcoming Trump supporters into her camp, she is seeing the
opportunity right now. You know they're going but they're going
to fill that void with Marxist populism, Okay, with far
left populism instead of right wing populism that Trump that
(22:25):
got Trump to the White House. And you see it
time and time again. You cannot make the argument that
these H one BV says are purely for skilled workers
and bringing in the best and the brightest from around
the world and the geniuses. When seventy one percent are
from India, ten to fifteen percent are from China, and
then you get like one percent from Philippines, one percent
(22:50):
from South Korea, and eighty plus percent of them are
for entry level and junior level jobs. How are these
people the highly skilled people that are training American people,
American workers. This is data that's out there, that's put
out there by the American government. It's very well known
(23:10):
that these are not highly skilled people. It's constantly gamed.
Here is a veteran from Silicon Valley speaking about that
Palmer Lucky, who's kind of famous for creating those virtual
reality headsets that Meta ended up buying. He ended up
going onto the Facebook board and then got fired or
got pushed out for supporting Trump and donating to Republican candidates.
(23:33):
Here is him speaking about the H one B visa
and how it's being gamed in Silicon Valley.
Speaker 10 (23:38):
Of course, there's so much H one B of use.
You would not believe what I saw when I was
in Silicon Valley. It's it is insane. It's obviously a
program to try and replace US workers with basically slave
labor that can't ever escape, like the H one B
abuse is crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So he's very clear there anyone that speaks frankly on it.
He's one of those kinds of guys that can do
that because he's been already been canceled by Silicon Valley,
so he can speak freely about it now. Of course,
you have people like Denesh Desosa Desusa, however the hell
you pronounce his name coming forward, Indian Chap that's been
here for a while. He came forward and said that
(24:14):
Americans are basically lazy and stupid as well. He went
to the Vivek Ramaswami route when he posted this on
the H one bs from MAGA sources, I learned that
our students have zero attention span, can't do simple math,
possess no critical reasoning skills, have serious behavioral issues, and
are three to four years behind in cognitive development. Are
(24:38):
these the best in the world, whiz kids who can
ace any job? That's Denesh Desosa. That's what he thinks
about the American worker. Okay, but for some reason, India
has all of the most skilled people in the world.
Seventy one percent of our H one b's come from there.
Can they create a government in their country that is dominant? No,
(25:03):
of course they can't. Denesh, don't talk about American people
in that regard when you know that this H one
B visa is being abused to basically replace American workers
with cheaper labor.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Here's the thing. It's lucrative to jump on this narrative. Okay,
if you're in conservative media and you jump on this narrative,
it seems to do pretty well for you. Truth telling,
not lucrats, not.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So much, not so much. You also have Ben Shapiro
coming out in favor of these H one B visas
This is Ben Shapiro speaking on this topic.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
There are in fact certain positions in the United States
that require a level of expertise that may not be
reachable in the numbers that are currently being turned out
by American universities. That is a shortcoming of our educational system,
and it is a problem, and so you can say
we should up our game education. I agree, we should
absolutely up our game educationally. But in the meantime, if
you do not bring in the labor supply, particularly to tech,
(26:01):
tech will go find the labor supply, and so what
you will end up with is in office that was
employing thirty Americans and three h onebvisa people. If the
cost grow too high, simply moving to another country where
they hire thirty Indians and zero Americans. Right, this is
the problem with the reason companies offshore is not because
it's easy or fun to simply move your company somewhere else.
(26:23):
It's because the labor cost becomes so prohibitive in the
United States that companies move away, and you can try
to teariff them back, but all that does is artificially
raise the price on Americans. Again, we're talking about affordability.
There are trade offs in economics, autarchy comes with the
fun feeling that everybody in America is making American product.
It comes with the very large downside their products are
economically inefficient, they don't work as well, and you're not
(26:45):
globally competitive.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
All right, So there he is making the argument for
h one BV says, of course they are clearly taking
American jobs. You have one point two million Americans graduated
from college this in twenty twenty four. The data that's
come out on that, eight hundred and sixty eight thousand
of them found jobs by the October twenty twenty four timeframe.
The rest did not. So that's what over almost four
(27:09):
hundred thousand people that did not find jobs from their
graduation let's say of June to October two thousand and
twenty four, but in that time four hundred thousand h
one bs are approved. So it's almost a direct correlation
there between almost four hundred thousand Americans not finding jobs
in that timeframe and four hundred thousand, h one b
(27:31):
people finding jobs and being approved. So I don't think
there's any shortage of American workers skilled American workers. And
by the way, I wonder if Ben Shapiro would be
a proponent of this in Israel, bringing in all of
these Indian h one bs into Israel and then eventually
having a pathway to citizenship. Because I guarantee you and
(27:54):
I know because I looked into this, they don't have
a similar program. They have a foreign visa worker program
with no path to being an American city. Isn't our
h onebvs A program has a path to become an
American citizen. And that is also part of this problem.
It's not just the fact that we are displacing American workers.
(28:14):
It is also a long term thing because these people
eventually end up becoming American citizens.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
Well, I know exactly what Ben Shapiro would say to you.
He'd say, you're being very anti Semitic right now.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
He definitely would, So, I mean, and so you have
that he's saying. And this is the other argument that
they make is that, oh, we're brain draining these other
countries and that's good, We're bringing the smart people here.
Or we've already made the argument and the data is
very clear on that that it's not the smart people.
But why do we want to braindrain these other countries?
Why should we not want them to improve their countries,
(28:50):
so we don't have so many immigrants coming over here
make their countries better. Why do we want to brain
drain them? We want to drain them of their resources.
How is that a moral value that we're going to
drain these people of their smart people? The logic there
(29:11):
is a corporatist logic. It's somebody that cares about and
views the United States as a corporation, as an economic
zone as rather than a people with a shared culture
and with land that they love and with families that
they want to build and provide for. It's just a
(29:31):
completely different mindset. And this is where we're starting to
see this fault line happen amongst the Republican and amongst
the right. And I want to get into that. I
want to dig into that more in a part three
of Fambogie. So join us over there, because the fault
lines have been drawn, and.
Speaker 7 (29:52):
Let me promise you this, we have saved the very
best for last. So you are definitely going to want
to listen to part three of this week's Famboogie
Hosts And Creators
Adryana Cortez
Patrick Courrielche
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