🚗💡 “Cheaper” isn’t always smarter.
This week the show, Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor shared two stories that hit home:
One listener passed on Ron’s $1,229 AC repair quote — using OEM parts and solid labor — and chose the cheaper shop instead. Even though he admitted it might fail.
Another caller inherited a beautiful 2004 Chevy van from his mom… but the frame was rotted out. Emotion said fix it. Logic — and Ron — said let it go.
The takeaway?
“The cost of quality is remembered long after the price is paid.”
Car repair isn’t just about tools and parts — it’s about long-term thinking, safety, and trust.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners Alife. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five five five six zero
nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five five
(00:25):
six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to honest
answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow dot
com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think the older I get and the more I
fix cars, the more I lose my understanding of people
and what they're thinking. I remember Billy, my first boss,
when I was a kid. When I was sixteen, Billy
always told me, he said, you'll never understand people there.
You can't make sense that. I've been a rational thought
process and That was quite a while ago, and I
still remember it to this day because it just doesn't
(01:11):
make sense. So if you find yourself saying it doesn't
make sense, it's irrational, right, so you can't. I've been
picking up the phone more at the shop lately, trying
to We've gotten busier and busier, and I know more
and more people are looking for us and looking for me.
They want to talk to me. I'm not sure why
the sound of my voice seems to soothe people sometimes,
(01:34):
and okay, I'm trying to play the game and be
there for him. So I picked up the phone this
week quite a few times, and one of the calls
that I missed but I texted back and then we
had conversation via email went something like this, Hey, Ron,
I've got a twenty nineteen Jeep Grand Cherokee and I
(01:56):
need an AC condenser replaced. Can you give me a
cost because I'm having a hard time with the estimate
that I've already gotten of around one thousand and fifty dollars. Yeah, okay, sure,
I'll play and understand my hesitancy if you can, If
(02:16):
you will, please. Air conditioning has traditionally been expensive. It
just is people will drive their car with ball tires,
with black oil, with bad windshow wipers and cracked glass.
But if the air conditioning doesn't work, oh my god,
we've got to have air. And it's always been that approach.
(02:38):
And my theory is that this is why the manufacturers
intentionally make the cost to repair so high. The parts
alone can be astronomical. Now, this being a twenty nineteen Jeep,
this is what we call twelve thirty four YF. This
is the refrigerant that is priced somewhere between liquid gold
and silver. It's just very very expensive stuff. So I'll
(03:00):
look it up. I looked it up in order to
give him a quote, and I found that there were
really no condensers in the aftermarket that I would prefer
to use. And by that, I'm saying none of the
brands that I like, none of the choices, none of
the manufacturers that I've become familiar with that I know,
work that don't give a problem, that don't make you
(03:21):
have to think, well, I have to redo this again.
They just work. So I quoted in Oe right from Chrysler,
right from Jeep, which I was going to tend to
do that anyway, because it's a newer vehicle, and I
think it takes the aftermarket a while to catch up
on making valid parts. And in this case, I was
in my opinion right again because I couldn't find anything
(03:43):
I recognize in terms of a brand. So I wrote
it up and I was twelve hundred and forty dollars.
Twelve hundred and twenty nine dollars. I think it came
out to adding in the cost of the refrigerant, same
amount of labor. Yeah, you know, flat rate out of
the book was two and a half hours. I rounded
it up to three and I was twelve hundred and
twenty nine dollars. So I wrote back and I broke
(04:04):
it all down and I said, here's what it costs,
here's why, and here's the pitfalls, here's what you have
to be aware of. And here's what I'm doing different
than the other guy. Because you listen, we all try
to sell ourselves. That's business, right, But you're trying to
also point out because I'm trying to educate that person,
just like i'm trying to educate you here when we're
talking you and I during this radio show or podcast,
(04:25):
however you're taking this show, I'm trying to give you information.
And he wrote back and he said, okay, great, I'm
going to go with the other guy because he's cheaper.
Because he's cheaper. And that just sat with me for
a while. I chewed on that for twenty four hours,
and I wrote back and I said, listen, I understand price,
(04:48):
but I just want you to know that the parts
I'm using are original cheap, because I couldn't fathom in
my mind how anybody was going to take the bumper
in the front grille in the front of this keep
apart because it's a big repair to do a condenser
and do it cheaper, not using same parts. I don't
(05:09):
you could do it, but you'd be losing money. And yeah,
it's possible. Some guys don't know how to run a business.
There's a lot of stupidity in the world. I understand
that too, you know, look around you some days. So
he wrote back, and this is what really, this is
where it got irrational. Always says, I know, absolutely, you're
doing a quality job. I'm just going with the other
(05:29):
guy because he was less money, even though I know
I might have to redo it again. That just stopped me.
I wasn't sure how to respond to that one of
the things I've always tried to teach you in the
thirty plus years of being together here on radio and
podcast and whatever forms of communication you and I get
(05:49):
together with is you know, you get what you pay for,
and be aware of what you're paying for, but always
try to look at it as you know, a long
jayvity of repair and proximity of repairent and what else
might need to be done, and what exactly are you
trying to accomplish. This is a twenty nineteen vehicle, it's
(06:10):
six years old, It only had sixty three thousand miles
on it. It wasn't you know, a tired old vehicle.
And if you're trying to go the distance, if you're
trying to go to one hundred and fifty to two
hundred thousand miles, aren't you better off with a better
quality part. Of course, the argument could be made that
the original part only lasted six years and it only
(06:32):
went sixty three thousand miles. But my suspicion is because
it's a condenser, and in some of the conversation I
had with this gentleman, is that there was damage to
the condenser. A piece of road debris came up and
hit it and caused the problem, and that very well
could be true. I don't know, because I still haven't
seen the vehicle, and I don't know that I will
(06:53):
anytime soon. Always know what you're buying. Always try to
make a rational, calm decision. Don't predicate it. Always on price.
You can. Hey, you're allowed to do whatever you want
to do, but you're going to find that somewhere along
the way you're going to get bit and that bite
really hurts, It leaves teeth marks. Because there's an adage
(07:18):
on the snap On tool truck that I think about.
It goes something to the effect of the value of
quality is long forgotten after the price is paid and remembered,
something to that effect. And they're talking about that you
buy quality, you get quality. You don't buy quality, you
get a headache. And that's absolutely true. So when it
(07:39):
comes to auto repair, remember that's what you're trying, that's
what you're shooting for. I've also noticed in the last
couple of months, seven eight months now that more and
more people are looking for information, and I think that's
because nobody's really giving out straight answers anymore. Maybe people
(08:00):
don't know straight answers, But I think it's driving people
to the point of misunderstanding and what are they trying
to accomplish? And it's difficult. Fixing cars is tough, Dealing
with people sometimes is tougher, and it's just an overwhelming
(08:22):
task at moments, which is why I always try to
explain to you from the perspective of a mechanic, but
I'm also trying to look at it from your point
of view too. Someone said to me the other day
we were talking about who will be interested in fixing
cars in the future, and someone brought up the fact that, well,
it won't be the next generation coming up, the youngsters,
(08:43):
And I said, why is that. Why do you feel
like that? And they said because of the cost. And
I understand that, And I understand that this generation is
hoping for automated robots and self driving cars and all
the promised wiz Bank technology of the future. Will it come?
Will it ever get here in some shape or form?
(09:05):
I don't know. We can't afford to fix the cars
that we're currently driving. How are we going to afford
to maintain and fix the car of the future that
isn't even made yet. And when we make decisions to
put cheaper parts on, to go less distance in mileage,
just because are we going to make any good decisions
(09:26):
at all? The Emperor has no clothes. A five five
five six zero nine nine zero zero running aading of
the car doctor. I will be back right after this
to kick the garage doors wide open. Don't go away,
and let's go to Brian in Wisconsin, Oh for Chevy
Express van. Brian, Welcome to the car doctor, sir, how
(09:46):
can I help?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Hey, thanks for taking my call age.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
My pleasure, You're welcome. What's going on?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, we got we got a vehicle from my parents.
My mother passed away last year and left us this
two thousand and four Chevy Express Wallduck conversion van with
one hundred and eighty thousand miles on it, and in
her honor, we were just going to start driving it
off to the west this this fall. So we took
it into our local person to get everything checked out,
(10:15):
fluids and hoses and belts, and the guy calls me
back and says, hey, the frame on this thing is gone.
He says, I'm afraid to put it on the lift.
My question is what do we do now? You know
we have a I think I sent you a picture.
We have a vehicle that's that looks really good. My
wife and I are looking to move into like a
(10:36):
sprinter or a pro master or a transit, you know,
to replace, you know, because we want to do some
traveling this fall or the you know, the upcoming years.
We figured we'd drive this thing and you know, into
the dust. But I think I'm afraid that we can't
do anything now.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right the dust sort of caught up to you.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, so what do we do now?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You know, keep in mind you're and I saw the picture.
It's a nice looking vehicle. Yeah, but keep in mind,
you know, you're seeing the top side. Until you see
the bottom, you only see half the vehicle. So that
being said, is the frame really rotted or is it
just one section? Did it? Did somebody go around and
(11:16):
give it what I call the hammer test, you know,
I I typically will take a twelve or a fourteen
ounce ballpeen hammer and gently tap the frame all the
way around, and how does it sound? How badly rotted
is the frame? Now? The other well, go ahead, go ahea, yeah, Well.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What happened is is you know, our guy said, hey, listen,
this is this is above me. So he sent these
photos off to a person who does frame repairs a
local heavy duty truck place. They called me back and said, yeah,
we looked at this, and we talked to the other
deal or the other you know, the other mechanic, and
(11:52):
he was afraid to take a hammer to it because
he was afraid he wasn't gonna be able to get
it out of his parking lot. That's how bad it
was in certain areas.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So okay, so let's assume the frame really is, you know, garbage.
Let's just let's just assume it's rotted. So the choices
are simple. It's either we're going to slide a replacement
frame underneath it, or we're going to jump the vehicle.
There's no there's no two ways to look at this.
This doesn't sound like a case of or a victim
(12:22):
for hey, I can I can patch it together, And
patching frames together is dicey at best. The person doing
the welding has to really be good at it, and
it also has to be legal in the state, and
every state seems to have different laws on governing how
frames are repaired. There's a lot of legal issues when
you're dealing with something like this. But you know, my
(12:43):
first question to you, Brian, is is this going to
be an emotional decision or a dollar decision?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
No, well, we're going to buy another van, you know.
That was my second part of the question is is
you know we're looking to get into a sprinter or something.
And my question was, we're going to drive this scene
to the dirt. I don't know how much money I
want to put into it. It's you know, I mean,
it's it's emotional. But then the hardest part about it
is that it's in such a good it's in such
good shape that you hate, you hate to scrap it.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
So what do we do now you scrap it?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Do we? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, or you go get you know, you start looking
around southern California, southern Texas, places with no salt, no snow,
and buying a donor vehicle and you you know, maybe
the body's banged up on that, but the frame is solid.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, I'm gonna ask you a question. How much would
a frame replacement on a full sized van like that,
I mean go for in your shop? I mean that
both guys that I talked to said, you're looking at
eight to ten grand.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Probably you have to start adding up hours, right, how many?
How many hours are involved? I've got a venture to guess.
You've easily got three to five days of solid eight
hour days. Two man crew, transfer, transferring everything over, blocking
everything out, lifting the body if the body can be supported,
lifting the body up on a frame, and then transferring.
(14:04):
But the other side of that is even the donor frame.
Is the donor frame going to come cleaner? Do you
have to take the donor frame out of the donor vehicle?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, right, I'd never even thought of that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, right, So if you have to take the donor frame,
so now you're doing the job almost twice, and then
you've got this donor body to get rid of.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah right, you're yeah. I think you're already making the
decision for me. Now I want to know is it is.
Do I take it to a person and say, hey, listen,
is it worth anything for parts? Or do I trade
it into somebody for the next vehicle and say, hey, listen,
this is the problem with it. Now, I just want
to get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think I think it's a matter of conscience. I myself,
I would scrap it for parts because this way I know,
and I'm not saying, whoever you're dealing with is on scrupulous,
But this way I know for sure it's you don't
know how things change hand. You don't know what goes
on after you shake hands and walk out the door,
that the next guy doesn't pass it off on the
next guy and passes it off on the th guy
(15:00):
and it ends up in some third world country as
a as a as a cruising van from America and
it's got this bad frame in it. So and you know,
Mom will look down on you and smile and say
you did the right thing, Brian, and she will right,
you know, yeah, she will. I appreciate that, you know.
And then if you want to, if you want to
remember the van, I would start looking. When you go
into the supermarket or the toy store, find yourself a matchbox,
(15:23):
because they made vans like that, and you could, you know,
stick it on the dashboard of the new sprinter because
the other side of this is, you know, the other
side of this is all right that let's say you
put a frame in it. Let's say it's two thousand bucks,
and we go through the trouble and we swap the
frame over and we put a frame in this right
we find some guy. We find a kid working cheap
(15:43):
on the weekend, and it takes them four weeks and
he does the frame swamp all kind of impractical, but
just for the sake, let's get money out of the equation,
all right, And we find it. We do this frame
swap by some shade of miracle of circumstance. You're still
driving a twenty two year old vehicle cross country yep,
and G the brake line broke, ge, the brake caliper
(16:06):
locked up. Ge, the water pump went south. Oh boy,
the radiator sprung a leak. Oh, I need to you know,
And where are we going to find these parts that
we can't find. We can't find parts for six year
old cars, much less twenty four year old cars or
twenty two year old cars. So what's the reliability factor?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, you're we listened to your soul out. My wife
and I and we both laugh at each other because
we both drive older vehicles and it is a problem
finding parts. Yeah, you take it in and they're like,
this car is almost on the edge of where they
you don't even want to touch it anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So listen, I'm looking at I'm just about ready to
put my seventy two money Carlo on the road, like
I'm really close to getting the plates and I'm gonna
go drive it. And I'm thinking to myself, but where
you know? I drove this car in college. I'd go
to Boston, I'd go to Kentucky, I'd go up and
down the Eastern seaboard. But that was a while ago.
The car was six years old at the time. And
(16:57):
now I'm faced with what happens when the water pump
goes bad? Now do I have to put all these
parts in the trunk and there'll be no room for suitcases?
So where am I going? And you know, so, I think,
as a matter of safety and convenience and conscience, I
would talk to your current mechanic. Tell him, here's the
choices of vans. I'm looking at. What is he the
(17:19):
most comfortable working on, What is he capable of working on?
Find something that you like, let him look it over,
and then do a frame treatment to it, obviously so
that the rust doesn't happen to the next one. But
I'd scrap Mom's van in her memory and she'll be
happy with that, and she'll smile down and give you
a kiss on the air. Good luck to you, Brian.
I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm running
ady in the car. Doctor, I'll be back right after this.
(17:41):
Don't go away, and we continue to continue. As Carpenter
Bob would say. You ever hang out with Carpenter Bob
Wall that's a rare experience, let me tell you. And
it's funny, you know, Carpenter Bob story for you longtime listeners.
You know, yeah, he's still around. He's still driving a van.
I got to pull Carpenter Bob's van on the lift
the other day. Now it's not the Ford van that
(18:02):
we all remember from so many years ago. Now it's
a Chevy astro Van. The only problem is Carpenter Bob
went and for those new people, Carpenter Bob is America's Carpenter.
I keep telling you, guys that you just don't want
to believe me. But Carpenter Bob went from driving a
nineteen eighty four E three fifty Ford van that was
yay big to a two thousand Chevy astro Van. The
(18:24):
only complication is he's got He's got everything from the
E three to fifty inside the astro van, which is
two thirds the size and I can't figure out. I
pulled this van on the lift the other day. And
you ever ride in one of those vehicles that are
so overloaded, like when you're sitting in the sea, it
kind of ooe woo. You know. It's it's sort of
like you got fourteen people piled on top of one
(18:45):
another and you're trying to walk around with him on
your shoulders. You're just the sway is just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But while I was there the other day when you
had that on the lift, and I mean the lift
was kind of about bowing in.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Right, it just right, Tom saw it. So it's it's
just But yeah, Carpenter Bob is alive and well and
doing well. And if you come to the shop one day,
you'll see him because he'll be sitting in his favorite chair,
which we don't really think it's his favorite chairs, just
that's the chair he's always sitting. And now he's gray, yes,
now great, Oh he's great. Yeah, But Carter Bob is
a great great grandpa.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yes he is.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
He's a great Actually, he's a great grandpa is what
it is. So he's he's creeping up there, he's getting
in age, but he's still trucking along and we love
him for it. But yes, he's become a fixture at
the shop and we're glad to have him. Let's go
over to Josh and Wisconsin. A return call from a
couple of weeks ago. Josh, Welcome back to the car doctor, sir,
what's on your mind today?
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Good afternoon, Ron. Yes, you had a caller two weeks ago.
I believe the name was Bill Okay and he was
working on a vehicle. I think he was redoing some
stuff and he was having an issue with the radio
and static, and nobody had hit on the point of
(20:02):
have we installed maybe some LED headlights aftermarket headlights? And
I only say that because on probably three of my vehicles,
I've installed LED aftermarket headlights, and when the running lights
are on, we're fine. But as soon as you turn
(20:23):
on either the headlights or the high beams, I will
lose radio signal unless I'm very close to a location.
So being north of Green Bay, Wisconsin, there's a distance
to travel for most of those radio stations, and I
will lose those stations when the headlights kick on. Minute
I turn the headlights off, I get them back.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So I've got LEDs in my plow truck. I've got
LED's aftermarket LED's and my plow truck after market LED's,
and my suburban and my Thunderbird, and I don't have
that problem. I'm not saying I'm not saying you can't.
But my experience to date has not been that So Okay,
(21:06):
maybe it's the brand of Led.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I've got different brands LEDs, and I have either stock
radios in these vehicles and or an aftermarket stereo. And
I've come up with the problem in every vehicle I've
had no right And if it's I have Toyota. So
(21:29):
if it's a Chevy, if it's a Ford, they may
have RF blocking components I don't know, or they may
be shielded so that that doesn't affect them as much.
Or it was just a thought.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh listen, I dig it, I get it. I appreciate it,
I really do it. And then again, is it a
green Bay thing? Is it something? Because Green Bay has
a different signal? And I would have to turn to
Tom and ask him, as the chief engineer, do radio
signals vary by location? And can they be affected by that?
But I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So, and then I know traveling it doesn't matter if
the minute the headlights come on. I I certain radio
stations are definitely affected by it, and it seems to
be if they're weaker. I definitely notice the difference, and and.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
To enhance the conversation if it were true, and I'm
not saying it's not because for you it's real. Right Listen,
we're all we're all stimulated by by our experiences. Then
why are they still selling LED lamps? And why isn't
anybody else complaining? But think of all the millions of
people buying those LED bulbs. You would think by now
(22:35):
somebody would have said, hey, you can't put LEDs in
these vehicles because the radio doesn't work.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Sure understood. I know there's a warning on some of
these labels, and I'm aware of that. It was just
a thought for me to give to him that, Hey,
I know a lot of people are doing.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
This very very fair, very fair point job, and don't
don't don't detect anything above and beyond that. I dig it.
I get what you're saying. It's it's it's I never
even thought of it because I've never had that as
an experience. You know, that's that's But you know what
(23:14):
if he's out there listening. I think you're right. I
think it was Bill. If Bill is out there, if
he does have l eds and it unplug, it does
it go away? So but but I think his problem,
I'm trying to remember the call wasn't his problem that
it didn't do it if the engine was off, but
it only it only did it with the engine running.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Running, and that would throw me back to running lights
or some some other component. Maybe he's added that has
some kind of RF interference once the vehicle's running, right,
that would just be my.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's fair, that's fair. So yeah, see, now I had
I've had LEDs in my suburban for a long time,
and only recently, in the last couple of months, I've
noticed the AMCGNO is starting to become crummy that I
get static on certain stations. And I'm blaming that on
the radio because it's there, whether the headlights are on
(24:09):
or not. So, but you know, what to be continued,
Maybe somebody out there has got answers, Maybe somebody's got
a different experience than you or I, and then we
can talk about that.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yeah, hey, you know, I'm all about the conversation.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely have something to do with his his
vicinity and the Green Bay Packers and lambeau Field. Will
you stop? Come on, Giant season is coming.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, let's go. Listen, We're gonna talk about the Giants
after this season because if they don't do anything better,
let's not turn this into a sports show, please. So
eight five five five six oh nine nine zero zero. God,
I'm getting it from all sides today. I'm running any
in the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
(24:54):
Let's get over and talk to Andrew from Alabama. Andrew,
you're on with the Car Doctor at eight five five
five zero nine nine zero zero. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Hey?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Ron?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
How you doing? Good man? What's cooking?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Well? I've got this twenty twelve twist a tundra. I'm
actually talking to you from inside it on the bluetooth
right now, got my scan tool hooked up, I got
a got a light on the dashboard here. Uh so
uh before we get into that, though, for probably the
past I don't know six months or so, my horn
(25:28):
stopped working, or rather started working intermittently. Okay, and and
now I'm at a at the point where the horn
does not work at all. Recently, the light came on
my dashboard, and I've got a code B one eight
one one says it's an open and drivers squib.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Circuit, rights air big clock spring or the spiral cat.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yes, sir, I was I was thinking that these two
problems may be related. I wanted to get your opinion
on on what I could check before I just go
throw in parts.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Of this thing.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Easy easy, easy stuff. First, all right, is go find
the horn under the hood and using fused power, whether
you use something like a power probe or a fuse
jumper wire, apply power momentarily to the horn feed. Does
the horn blow? It should, But let's let's let's let's
solve the easy problem first. If the horn, if the
horn blows, which I expect it will, then then we
(26:28):
know it's not the component. So then I would go
back to the base of the steering column. I find
a wiring diagram, identify which connector leads up to that
airbag clock spring and unplug it. Go scan it again.
Now my code should change to an open circuit. It
should also change the code right because now now I
can't see anything, and if it does, that tells me
(26:50):
the problem is from the ba bottom of the column
to the top of the steering wheel. And then I'm
going to tell you, you know, if you have the
capability and you know how to do it, you know
you've got to get the airbag out of there and
get down to the clock spring. In all likelihood put
a clock spring in it, and that'll that'll solve it
for you.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Okay, So in your in your opinion to do, do
you think these these two problems are related.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, my gut tells me yes, all right, that's sort.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Of what I was thinking. But uh, you know, as
I've as I've listened to your show for a long time,
you know you want you want proof, you want evidence. Yeah,
and uh so I was sort of just looking looking
for a good way I could I could start looking
for evidence.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
The other the other thing you could do is you
know the other thing you could do, Andrew, is unplug
the horn and put a light bulb from the hot lead. Well,
let's talk about how does the horn work. The horn
is grounded and then you're applying voltage to it, and
the horn coil is the electrical load, right, But it's
(27:52):
it's no different than if I put a light bulb there.
And you can do this on any car. If you
want to see how it works, you know, go look
at a known good, right, always look at good before
you look at bed. And put a light bulb one
leg of the light bulb, you know, in a socket,
put it to the hot lead from the horn, and
then touch the other lead to ground when you push
the horn button. What happens the light bulb light's right,
(28:12):
we're applying voltage. We're applying voltage across a load. So
you know, if you don't see your light bulb light
up in your broken truck and we've and we've and
you've got twelve vaults there, then you've got a bad
ground or a bad bulb. But if the light bulb
doesn't light up and you don't have twelve vaults, you
know the problem is that way, right? Yes, okay, same
(28:37):
thing as doing it. It's just applying twelve vaults to the
horn with the wire disconnected. Twelve volts is twelve vaults.
Ground is ground.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
One of the things I always try to teach, and
did teach when I did teach, is take the component out,
put it on your bench. I don't care what we're
working on. You know, a connecting rod or rear end
or an electrical component. How would you test it on
the bench. If you can test it on the bench
the way it operates in the vehicle, then you've got
half the battle beat. And and maybe maybe you don't
(29:05):
have to take it and put it on your bench.
Maybe you can just separate it in your mind. You know,
I've always looked at cars as every component makes up
the structure. So how would I test the component whether
it's attached to the structure or not. So in your case,
verify the horn. Then I'm gonna go back up and
take a harder look at that clock spring. Now, the
(29:25):
one question I've got for you is have you ever
taken an air bag out?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
No, but I understand you need to exercise caution. Is
there explosive devices, yeah, and you can definitely get injured caution.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Caution is an understatement. I've been to a few classes
where for the purpose of scaring us half to death,
they will they will detonate an air big You've never
seen anything go so high in the air and all
your life, brother, it just it takes off like a shot.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
It's oh yeah, I've definitely seen the Instagram videos. You know,
someone's sitting on the tire and and it's I.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Can't emphasize it enough, and I would, I would tell
you point blank that when you do come down and
make the determination if it is and if it is
the clock spring. I'm a fan of oe clock springs.
I don't care what they cost.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I absolutely I'm in the same boat I generally with
most components on this this vehicle. I'm I'm gonna tend
to try to get oem if possible.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yep, just just because I always worry. Listen, I don't
like the fact that we're riding around with something that
has the equivalent force of a twelve gage shotgun in
front of our face. Most of the time. I just
it bothers the heck out of me. But I've come
to accept it. But that is the equivalent they say that.
They say an airbag going off is like the kick
of a twelve gage. So that's that's that's quite a shot,
(30:47):
all right. But attack it like that and I think
you'll find that it's going to be the clock spring.
But you know, just break down the circuit and if
you want, what you could do is there are kids
out there that will put a plug resistance across the circuit.
So what am I saying? In other words, the way
the computer knows the clock spring is good. It doesn't
(31:09):
just run voltage up and back down. It does a
resistance check. There's a resistance value, and it varies by manufacturer.
Each clock spring has a different resistance value. All right,
there are kits out there if you want to diagnose this,
that you can purchase that, say, for a twelve Toyota tundred,
it's going to have a resistance value of eighteen homes
(31:29):
and it'll give you the ability to dial eighteen homes
in and all of a sudden the problem goes away.
Now you know, the problem is definitely between the bottom
of the column and the top of the steering wheel.
And you know, my guess would be it's a clock spring.
At that point, at the very least, you're gonna pull
it out and you can start home checking it and
looking at it. But in all likelihood, you're gonna put
a clock spring in this vehicle high mileage.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh, I've got two eighty eight, four eighty nine. Yeah,
and I reckon that's just broken in, just.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Broken in, baby. But that's where you're headed, and that's
where I would take it, Andrew. I appreciate the call.
Good luck. Let us know if you need anything else.
I'm running any of the Car Doctor. We're back right
after this. Let's finish up the hour here. Hey, Ron,
I heard you talking last week about giving away T shirts.
I missed out on that show. Where can I get
my T shirt? Well, I'll tell you what there, Russ,
(32:18):
you can get out the cardoctorshow dot com and click
on the merchandise button. We have them up for sale.
We've had them there for a long long time. Sales
are doing well. But if you want your own card
Doctor T shirt, you can get it there, and we
appreciate it. And I wish somebody would explain to me
because I don't understand it why RI Automotive T shirts
are out selling Car Doctor T shirts. I don't know
if I should be offended or not, since I'm both
one and the same, but it's the weirdest thing. RI
(32:39):
Automotive T shirts, which are available there as well, Russ,
and for everybody else Cardoctorshow dot com. RI Automotive T
shirts are out selling Car Doctor T shirts two to one.
I can't figure it out, but maybe I'm gonna have
a whole bunch of I'll keep waiting. I'm thinking maybe
I'm gonna have like four hundred people show up to
work one day at the shop and I won't notice
it's them because they'll be wearing the blue and white.
But of that's where you can go. Get that and
(33:02):
another call. Another email, this one from Tom writes in
from North Carolina. Hey, Ron, I heard you talking in
last week about a jump pack, but I came in
at the end of the show and I couldn't catch
the whole thing. Can you tell me again? What's the
name of the product you were talking about? Yeah, Tom,
you're talking about I was talking about. I was talking
about the Schumacher jump Pack, Part number sixteen eleven. Works
(33:23):
real well, rugged, does a lot of things. USB ports
three and one charging a lot of great features. The
Schoemacher sixteen eleven is what you're after. I'm Ronning Aeny
and the car Doctor reminding you till the next time.
Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners Alife. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
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Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
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(00:25):
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start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think the older I get and the more I
fix cars, the more I lose my understanding of people
and what they're thinking. I remember Billy, my first boss,
when I was a kid. When I was sixteen, Billy
always told me, he said, you'll never understand people there.
You can't make sense that. I've been a rational thought
process and That was quite a while ago, and I
still remember it to this day because it just doesn't
(01:11):
make sense. So if you find yourself saying it doesn't
make sense, it's irrational, right, so you can't. I've been
picking up the phone more at the shop lately, trying
to We've gotten busier and busier, and I know more
and more people are looking for us and looking for me.
They want to talk to me. I'm not sure why
the sound of my voice seems to soothe people sometimes,
(01:34):
and okay, I'm trying to play the game and be
there for him. So I picked up the phone this
week quite a few times, and one of the calls
that I missed but I texted back and then we
had conversation via email went something like this, Hey, Ron,
I've got a twenty nineteen Jeep Grand Cherokee and I
(01:56):
need an AC condenser replaced. Can you give me a
cost because I'm having a hard time with the estimate
that I've already gotten of around one thousand and fifty dollars. Yeah, okay, sure,
I'll play and understand my hesitancy if you can, If
(02:16):
you will, please. Air conditioning has traditionally been expensive. It
just is people will drive their car with ball tires,
with black oil, with bad windshow wipers and cracked glass.
But if the air conditioning doesn't work, oh my god,
we've got to have air. And it's always been that approach.
(02:38):
And my theory is that this is why the manufacturers
intentionally make the cost to repair so high. The parts
alone can be astronomical. Now, this being a twenty nineteen Jeep,
this is what we call twelve thirty four YF. This
is the refrigerant that is priced somewhere between liquid gold
and silver. It's just very very expensive stuff. So I'll
(03:00):
look it up. I looked it up in order to
give him a quote, and I found that there were
really no condensers in the aftermarket that I would prefer
to use. And by that, I'm saying none of the
brands that I like, none of the choices, none of
the manufacturers that I've become familiar with that I know,
work that don't give a problem, that don't make you
(03:21):
have to think, well, I have to redo this again.
They just work. So I quoted in Oe right from Chrysler,
right from Jeep, which I was going to tend to
do that anyway, because it's a newer vehicle, and I
think it takes the aftermarket a while to catch up
on making valid parts. And in this case, I was
in my opinion right again because I couldn't find anything
(03:43):
I recognize in terms of a brand. So I wrote
it up and I was twelve hundred and forty dollars.
Twelve hundred and twenty nine dollars. I think it came
out to adding in the cost of the refrigerant, same
amount of labor. Yeah, you know, flat rate out of
the book was two and a half hours. I rounded
it up to three and I was twelve hundred and
twenty nine dollars. So I wrote back and I broke
(04:04):
it all down and I said, here's what it costs,
here's why, and here's the pitfalls, here's what you have
to be aware of. And here's what I'm doing different
than the other guy. Because you listen, we all try
to sell ourselves. That's business, right, But you're trying to
also point out because I'm trying to educate that person,
just like i'm trying to educate you here when we're
talking you and I during this radio show or podcast,
(04:25):
however you're taking this show, I'm trying to give you information.
And he wrote back and he said, okay, great, I'm
going to go with the other guy because he's cheaper.
Because he's cheaper. And that just sat with me for
a while. I chewed on that for twenty four hours,
and I wrote back and I said, listen, I understand price,
(04:48):
but I just want you to know that the parts
I'm using are original cheap, because I couldn't fathom in
my mind how anybody was going to take the bumper
in the front grille in the front of this keep
apart because it's a big repair to do a condenser
and do it cheaper, not using same parts. I don't
(05:09):
you could do it, but you'd be losing money. And yeah,
it's possible. Some guys don't know how to run a business.
There's a lot of stupidity in the world. I understand
that too, you know, look around you some days. So
he wrote back, and this is what really, this is
where it got irrational. Always says, I know, absolutely, you're
doing a quality job. I'm just going with the other
(05:29):
guy because he was less money, even though I know
I might have to redo it again. That just stopped me.
I wasn't sure how to respond to that one of
the things I've always tried to teach you in the
thirty plus years of being together here on radio and
podcast and whatever forms of communication you and I get
(05:49):
together with is you know, you get what you pay for,
and be aware of what you're paying for, but always
try to look at it as you know, a long
jayvity of repair and proximity of repairent and what else
might need to be done, and what exactly are you
trying to accomplish. This is a twenty nineteen vehicle, it's
(06:10):
six years old, It only had sixty three thousand miles
on it. It wasn't you know, a tired old vehicle.
And if you're trying to go the distance, if you're
trying to go to one hundred and fifty to two
hundred thousand miles, aren't you better off with a better
quality part. Of course, the argument could be made that
the original part only lasted six years and it only
(06:32):
went sixty three thousand miles. But my suspicion is because
it's a condenser, and in some of the conversation I
had with this gentleman, is that there was damage to
the condenser. A piece of road debris came up and
hit it and caused the problem, and that very well
could be true. I don't know, because I still haven't
seen the vehicle, and I don't know that I will
(06:53):
anytime soon. Always know what you're buying. Always try to
make a rational, calm decision. Don't predicate it. Always on price.
You can. Hey, you're allowed to do whatever you want
to do, but you're going to find that somewhere along
the way you're going to get bit and that bite
really hurts, It leaves teeth marks. Because there's an adage
(07:18):
on the snap On tool truck that I think about.
It goes something to the effect of the value of
quality is long forgotten after the price is paid and remembered,
something to that effect. And they're talking about that you
buy quality, you get quality. You don't buy quality, you
get a headache. And that's absolutely true. So when it
(07:39):
comes to auto repair, remember that's what you're trying, that's
what you're shooting for. I've also noticed in the last
couple of months, seven eight months now that more and
more people are looking for information, and I think that's
because nobody's really giving out straight answers anymore. Maybe people
(08:00):
don't know straight answers, But I think it's driving people
to the point of misunderstanding and what are they trying
to accomplish? And it's difficult. Fixing cars is tough, Dealing
with people sometimes is tougher, and it's just an overwhelming
(08:22):
task at moments, which is why I always try to
explain to you from the perspective of a mechanic, but
I'm also trying to look at it from your point
of view too. Someone said to me the other day
we were talking about who will be interested in fixing
cars in the future, and someone brought up the fact that, well,
it won't be the next generation coming up, the youngsters,
(08:43):
And I said, why is that. Why do you feel
like that? And they said because of the cost. And
I understand that, And I understand that this generation is
hoping for automated robots and self driving cars and all
the promised wiz Bank technology of the future. Will it come?
Will it ever get here in some shape or form?
(09:05):
I don't know. We can't afford to fix the cars
that we're currently driving. How are we going to afford
to maintain and fix the car of the future that
isn't even made yet. And when we make decisions to
put cheaper parts on, to go less distance in mileage,
just because are we going to make any good decisions
(09:26):
at all? The Emperor has no clothes. A five five
five six zero nine nine zero zero running aading of
the car doctor. I will be back right after this
to kick the garage doors wide open. Don't go away,
and let's go to Brian in Wisconsin, Oh for Chevy
Express van. Brian, Welcome to the car doctor, sir, how
(09:46):
can I help?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Hey, thanks for taking my call age.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
My pleasure, You're welcome. What's going on?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, we got we got a vehicle from my parents.
My mother passed away last year and left us this
two thousand and four Chevy Express Wallduck conversion van with
one hundred and eighty thousand miles on it, and in
her honor, we were just going to start driving it
off to the west this this fall. So we took
it into our local person to get everything checked out,
(10:15):
fluids and hoses and belts, and the guy calls me
back and says, hey, the frame on this thing is gone.
He says, I'm afraid to put it on the lift.
My question is what do we do now? You know
we have a I think I sent you a picture.
We have a vehicle that's that looks really good. My
wife and I are looking to move into like a
(10:36):
sprinter or a pro master or a transit, you know,
to replace, you know, because we want to do some
traveling this fall or the you know, the upcoming years.
We figured we'd drive this thing and you know, into
the dust. But I think I'm afraid that we can't
do anything now.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right the dust sort of caught up to you.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, so what do we do now?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You know, keep in mind you're and I saw the picture.
It's a nice looking vehicle. Yeah, but keep in mind,
you know, you're seeing the top side. Until you see
the bottom, you only see half the vehicle. So that
being said, is the frame really rotted or is it
just one section? Did it? Did somebody go around and
(11:16):
give it what I call the hammer test, you know,
I I typically will take a twelve or a fourteen
ounce ballpeen hammer and gently tap the frame all the
way around, and how does it sound? How badly rotted
is the frame? Now? The other well, go ahead, go ahea, yeah, Well.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What happened is is you know, our guy said, hey, listen,
this is this is above me. So he sent these
photos off to a person who does frame repairs a
local heavy duty truck place. They called me back and said, yeah,
we looked at this, and we talked to the other
deal or the other you know, the other mechanic, and
(11:52):
he was afraid to take a hammer to it because
he was afraid he wasn't gonna be able to get
it out of his parking lot. That's how bad it
was in certain areas.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So okay, so let's assume the frame really is, you know, garbage.
Let's just let's just assume it's rotted. So the choices
are simple. It's either we're going to slide a replacement
frame underneath it, or we're going to jump the vehicle.
There's no there's no two ways to look at this.
This doesn't sound like a case of or a victim
(12:22):
for hey, I can I can patch it together, And
patching frames together is dicey at best. The person doing
the welding has to really be good at it, and
it also has to be legal in the state, and
every state seems to have different laws on governing how
frames are repaired. There's a lot of legal issues when
you're dealing with something like this. But you know, my
(12:43):
first question to you, Brian, is is this going to
be an emotional decision or a dollar decision?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
No, well, we're going to buy another van, you know.
That was my second part of the question is is
you know we're looking to get into a sprinter or something.
And my question was, we're going to drive this scene
to the dirt. I don't know how much money I
want to put into it. It's you know, I mean,
it's it's emotional. But then the hardest part about it
is that it's in such a good it's in such
good shape that you hate, you hate to scrap it.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
So what do we do now you scrap it?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Do we? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, or you go get you know, you start looking
around southern California, southern Texas, places with no salt, no snow,
and buying a donor vehicle and you you know, maybe
the body's banged up on that, but the frame is solid.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, I'm gonna ask you a question. How much would
a frame replacement on a full sized van like that,
I mean go for in your shop? I mean that
both guys that I talked to said, you're looking at
eight to ten grand.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Probably you have to start adding up hours, right, how many?
How many hours are involved? I've got a venture to guess.
You've easily got three to five days of solid eight
hour days. Two man crew, transfer, transferring everything over, blocking
everything out, lifting the body if the body can be supported,
lifting the body up on a frame, and then transferring.
(14:04):
But the other side of that is even the donor frame.
Is the donor frame going to come cleaner? Do you
have to take the donor frame out of the donor vehicle?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, right, I'd never even thought of that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, right, So if you have to take the donor frame,
so now you're doing the job almost twice, and then
you've got this donor body to get rid of.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah right, you're yeah. I think you're already making the
decision for me. Now I want to know is it is.
Do I take it to a person and say, hey, listen,
is it worth anything for parts? Or do I trade
it into somebody for the next vehicle and say, hey, listen,
this is the problem with it. Now, I just want
to get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think I think it's a matter of conscience. I myself,
I would scrap it for parts because this way I know,
and I'm not saying, whoever you're dealing with is on scrupulous,
But this way I know for sure it's you don't
know how things change hand. You don't know what goes
on after you shake hands and walk out the door,
that the next guy doesn't pass it off on the
next guy and passes it off on the th guy
(15:00):
and it ends up in some third world country as
a as a as a cruising van from America and
it's got this bad frame in it. So and you know,
Mom will look down on you and smile and say
you did the right thing, Brian, and she will right,
you know, yeah, she will. I appreciate that, you know.
And then if you want to, if you want to
remember the van, I would start looking. When you go
into the supermarket or the toy store, find yourself a matchbox,
(15:23):
because they made vans like that, and you could, you know,
stick it on the dashboard of the new sprinter because
the other side of this is, you know, the other
side of this is all right that let's say you
put a frame in it. Let's say it's two thousand bucks,
and we go through the trouble and we swap the
frame over and we put a frame in this right
we find some guy. We find a kid working cheap
(15:43):
on the weekend, and it takes them four weeks and
he does the frame swamp all kind of impractical, but
just for the sake, let's get money out of the equation,
all right, And we find it. We do this frame
swap by some shade of miracle of circumstance. You're still
driving a twenty two year old vehicle cross country yep,
and G the brake line broke, ge, the brake caliper
(16:06):
locked up. Ge, the water pump went south. Oh boy,
the radiator sprung a leak. Oh, I need to you know,
And where are we going to find these parts that
we can't find. We can't find parts for six year
old cars, much less twenty four year old cars or
twenty two year old cars. So what's the reliability factor?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, you're we listened to your soul out. My wife
and I and we both laugh at each other because
we both drive older vehicles and it is a problem
finding parts. Yeah, you take it in and they're like,
this car is almost on the edge of where they
you don't even want to touch it anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So listen, I'm looking at I'm just about ready to
put my seventy two money Carlo on the road, like
I'm really close to getting the plates and I'm gonna
go drive it. And I'm thinking to myself, but where
you know? I drove this car in college. I'd go
to Boston, I'd go to Kentucky, I'd go up and
down the Eastern seaboard. But that was a while ago.
The car was six years old at the time. And
(16:57):
now I'm faced with what happens when the water pump
goes bad? Now do I have to put all these
parts in the trunk and there'll be no room for suitcases?
So where am I going? And you know, so, I think,
as a matter of safety and convenience and conscience, I
would talk to your current mechanic. Tell him, here's the
choices of vans. I'm looking at. What is he the
(17:19):
most comfortable working on, What is he capable of working on?
Find something that you like, let him look it over,
and then do a frame treatment to it, obviously so
that the rust doesn't happen to the next one. But
I'd scrap Mom's van in her memory and she'll be
happy with that, and she'll smile down and give you
a kiss on the air. Good luck to you, Brian.
I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm running
ady in the car. Doctor, I'll be back right after this.
(17:41):
Don't go away, and we continue to continue. As Carpenter
Bob would say. You ever hang out with Carpenter Bob
Wall that's a rare experience, let me tell you. And
it's funny, you know, Carpenter Bob story for you longtime listeners.
You know, yeah, he's still around. He's still driving a van.
I got to pull Carpenter Bob's van on the lift
the other day. Now it's not the Ford van that
(18:02):
we all remember from so many years ago. Now it's
a Chevy astro Van. The only problem is Carpenter Bob
went and for those new people, Carpenter Bob is America's Carpenter.
I keep telling you, guys that you just don't want
to believe me. But Carpenter Bob went from driving a
nineteen eighty four E three fifty Ford van that was
yay big to a two thousand Chevy astro Van. The
(18:24):
only complication is he's got He's got everything from the
E three to fifty inside the astro van, which is
two thirds the size and I can't figure out. I
pulled this van on the lift the other day. And
you ever ride in one of those vehicles that are
so overloaded, like when you're sitting in the sea, it
kind of ooe woo. You know. It's it's sort of
like you got fourteen people piled on top of one
(18:45):
another and you're trying to walk around with him on
your shoulders. You're just the sway is just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But while I was there the other day when you
had that on the lift, and I mean the lift
was kind of about bowing in.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Right, it just right, Tom saw it. So it's it's
just But yeah, Carpenter Bob is alive and well and
doing well. And if you come to the shop one day,
you'll see him because he'll be sitting in his favorite chair,
which we don't really think it's his favorite chairs, just
that's the chair he's always sitting. And now he's gray, yes,
now great, Oh he's great. Yeah, But Carter Bob is
a great great grandpa.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yes he is.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
He's a great Actually, he's a great grandpa is what
it is. So he's he's creeping up there, he's getting
in age, but he's still trucking along and we love
him for it. But yes, he's become a fixture at
the shop and we're glad to have him. Let's go
over to Josh and Wisconsin. A return call from a
couple of weeks ago. Josh, Welcome back to the car doctor, sir,
what's on your mind today?
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Good afternoon, Ron. Yes, you had a caller two weeks ago.
I believe the name was Bill Okay and he was
working on a vehicle. I think he was redoing some
stuff and he was having an issue with the radio
and static, and nobody had hit on the point of
(20:02):
have we installed maybe some LED headlights aftermarket headlights? And
I only say that because on probably three of my vehicles,
I've installed LED aftermarket headlights, and when the running lights
are on, we're fine. But as soon as you turn
(20:23):
on either the headlights or the high beams, I will
lose radio signal unless I'm very close to a location.
So being north of Green Bay, Wisconsin, there's a distance
to travel for most of those radio stations, and I
will lose those stations when the headlights kick on. Minute
I turn the headlights off, I get them back.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So I've got LEDs in my plow truck. I've got
LED's aftermarket LED's and my plow truck after market LED's,
and my suburban and my Thunderbird, and I don't have
that problem. I'm not saying I'm not saying you can't.
But my experience to date has not been that So Okay,
(21:06):
maybe it's the brand of Led.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I've got different brands LEDs, and I have either stock
radios in these vehicles and or an aftermarket stereo. And
I've come up with the problem in every vehicle I've
had no right And if it's I have Toyota. So
(21:29):
if it's a Chevy, if it's a Ford, they may
have RF blocking components I don't know, or they may
be shielded so that that doesn't affect them as much.
Or it was just a thought.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh listen, I dig it, I get it. I appreciate it,
I really do it. And then again, is it a
green Bay thing? Is it something? Because Green Bay has
a different signal? And I would have to turn to
Tom and ask him, as the chief engineer, do radio
signals vary by location? And can they be affected by that?
But I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So, and then I know traveling it doesn't matter if
the minute the headlights come on. I I certain radio
stations are definitely affected by it, and it seems to
be if they're weaker. I definitely notice the difference, and and.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
To enhance the conversation if it were true, and I'm
not saying it's not because for you it's real. Right Listen,
we're all we're all stimulated by by our experiences. Then
why are they still selling LED lamps? And why isn't
anybody else complaining? But think of all the millions of
people buying those LED bulbs. You would think by now
(22:35):
somebody would have said, hey, you can't put LEDs in
these vehicles because the radio doesn't work.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Sure understood. I know there's a warning on some of
these labels, and I'm aware of that. It was just
a thought for me to give to him that, Hey,
I know a lot of people are doing.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
This very very fair, very fair point job, and don't
don't don't detect anything above and beyond that. I dig it.
I get what you're saying. It's it's it's I never
even thought of it because I've never had that as
an experience. You know, that's that's But you know what
(23:14):
if he's out there listening. I think you're right. I
think it was Bill. If Bill is out there, if
he does have l eds and it unplug, it does
it go away? So but but I think his problem,
I'm trying to remember the call wasn't his problem that
it didn't do it if the engine was off, but
it only it only did it with the engine running.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Running, and that would throw me back to running lights
or some some other component. Maybe he's added that has
some kind of RF interference once the vehicle's running, right,
that would just be my.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's fair, that's fair. So yeah, see, now I had
I've had LEDs in my suburban for a long time,
and only recently, in the last couple of months, I've
noticed the AMCGNO is starting to become crummy that I
get static on certain stations. And I'm blaming that on
the radio because it's there, whether the headlights are on
(24:09):
or not. So, but you know, what to be continued,
Maybe somebody out there has got answers, Maybe somebody's got
a different experience than you or I, and then we
can talk about that.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yeah, hey, you know, I'm all about the conversation.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely have something to do with his his
vicinity and the Green Bay Packers and lambeau Field. Will
you stop? Come on, Giant season is coming.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, let's go. Listen, We're gonna talk about the Giants
after this season because if they don't do anything better,
let's not turn this into a sports show, please. So
eight five five five six oh nine nine zero zero. God,
I'm getting it from all sides today. I'm running any
in the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
(24:54):
Let's get over and talk to Andrew from Alabama. Andrew,
you're on with the Car Doctor at eight five five
five zero nine nine zero zero. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Hey?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Ron?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
How you doing? Good man? What's cooking?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Well? I've got this twenty twelve twist a tundra. I'm
actually talking to you from inside it on the bluetooth
right now, got my scan tool hooked up, I got
a got a light on the dashboard here. Uh so
uh before we get into that, though, for probably the
past I don't know six months or so, my horn
(25:28):
stopped working, or rather started working intermittently. Okay, and and
now I'm at a at the point where the horn
does not work at all. Recently, the light came on
my dashboard, and I've got a code B one eight
one one says it's an open and drivers squib.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Circuit, rights air big clock spring or the spiral cat.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yes, sir, I was I was thinking that these two
problems may be related. I wanted to get your opinion
on on what I could check before I just go
throw in parts.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Of this thing.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Easy easy, easy stuff. First, all right, is go find
the horn under the hood and using fused power, whether
you use something like a power probe or a fuse
jumper wire, apply power momentarily to the horn feed. Does
the horn blow? It should, But let's let's let's let's
solve the easy problem first. If the horn, if the
horn blows, which I expect it will, then then we
(26:28):
know it's not the component. So then I would go
back to the base of the steering column. I find
a wiring diagram, identify which connector leads up to that
airbag clock spring and unplug it. Go scan it again.
Now my code should change to an open circuit. It
should also change the code right because now now I
can't see anything, and if it does, that tells me
(26:50):
the problem is from the ba bottom of the column
to the top of the steering wheel. And then I'm
going to tell you, you know, if you have the
capability and you know how to do it, you know
you've got to get the airbag out of there and
get down to the clock spring. In all likelihood put
a clock spring in it, and that'll that'll solve it
for you.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Okay, So in your in your opinion to do, do
you think these these two problems are related.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, my gut tells me yes, all right, that's sort.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Of what I was thinking. But uh, you know, as
I've as I've listened to your show for a long time,
you know you want you want proof, you want evidence. Yeah,
and uh so I was sort of just looking looking
for a good way I could I could start looking
for evidence.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
The other the other thing you could do is you
know the other thing you could do, Andrew, is unplug
the horn and put a light bulb from the hot lead. Well,
let's talk about how does the horn work. The horn
is grounded and then you're applying voltage to it, and
the horn coil is the electrical load, right, But it's
(27:52):
it's no different than if I put a light bulb there.
And you can do this on any car. If you
want to see how it works, you know, go look
at a known good, right, always look at good before
you look at bed. And put a light bulb one
leg of the light bulb, you know, in a socket,
put it to the hot lead from the horn, and
then touch the other lead to ground when you push
the horn button. What happens the light bulb light's right,
(28:12):
we're applying voltage. We're applying voltage across a load. So
you know, if you don't see your light bulb light
up in your broken truck and we've and we've and
you've got twelve vaults there, then you've got a bad
ground or a bad bulb. But if the light bulb
doesn't light up and you don't have twelve vaults, you
know the problem is that way, right? Yes, okay, same
(28:37):
thing as doing it. It's just applying twelve vaults to the
horn with the wire disconnected. Twelve volts is twelve vaults.
Ground is ground.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
One of the things I always try to teach, and
did teach when I did teach, is take the component out,
put it on your bench. I don't care what we're
working on. You know, a connecting rod or rear end
or an electrical component. How would you test it on
the bench. If you can test it on the bench
the way it operates in the vehicle, then you've got
half the battle beat. And and maybe maybe you don't
(29:05):
have to take it and put it on your bench.
Maybe you can just separate it in your mind. You know,
I've always looked at cars as every component makes up
the structure. So how would I test the component whether
it's attached to the structure or not. So in your case,
verify the horn. Then I'm gonna go back up and
take a harder look at that clock spring. Now, the
(29:25):
one question I've got for you is have you ever
taken an air bag out?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
No, but I understand you need to exercise caution. Is
there explosive devices, yeah, and you can definitely get injured caution.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Caution is an understatement. I've been to a few classes
where for the purpose of scaring us half to death,
they will they will detonate an air big You've never
seen anything go so high in the air and all
your life, brother, it just it takes off like a shot.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
It's oh yeah, I've definitely seen the Instagram videos. You know,
someone's sitting on the tire and and it's I.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Can't emphasize it enough, and I would, I would tell
you point blank that when you do come down and
make the determination if it is and if it is
the clock spring. I'm a fan of oe clock springs.
I don't care what they cost.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I absolutely I'm in the same boat I generally with
most components on this this vehicle. I'm I'm gonna tend
to try to get oem if possible.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yep, just just because I always worry. Listen, I don't
like the fact that we're riding around with something that
has the equivalent force of a twelve gage shotgun in
front of our face. Most of the time. I just
it bothers the heck out of me. But I've come
to accept it. But that is the equivalent they say that.
They say an airbag going off is like the kick
of a twelve gage. So that's that's that's quite a shot,
(30:47):
all right. But attack it like that and I think
you'll find that it's going to be the clock spring.
But you know, just break down the circuit and if
you want, what you could do is there are kids
out there that will put a plug resistance across the circuit.
So what am I saying? In other words, the way
the computer knows the clock spring is good. It doesn't
(31:09):
just run voltage up and back down. It does a
resistance check. There's a resistance value, and it varies by manufacturer.
Each clock spring has a different resistance value. All right,
there are kits out there if you want to diagnose this,
that you can purchase that, say, for a twelve Toyota tundred,
it's going to have a resistance value of eighteen homes
(31:29):
and it'll give you the ability to dial eighteen homes
in and all of a sudden the problem goes away.
Now you know, the problem is definitely between the bottom
of the column and the top of the steering wheel.
And you know, my guess would be it's a clock spring.
At that point, at the very least, you're gonna pull
it out and you can start home checking it and
looking at it. But in all likelihood, you're gonna put
a clock spring in this vehicle high mileage.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh, I've got two eighty eight, four eighty nine. Yeah,
and I reckon that's just broken in, just.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Broken in, baby. But that's where you're headed, and that's
where I would take it, Andrew. I appreciate the call.
Good luck. Let us know if you need anything else.
I'm running any of the Car Doctor. We're back right
after this. Let's finish up the hour here. Hey, Ron,
I heard you talking last week about giving away T shirts.
I missed out on that show. Where can I get
my T shirt? Well, I'll tell you what there, Russ,
(32:18):
you can get out the cardoctorshow dot com and click
on the merchandise button. We have them up for sale.
We've had them there for a long long time. Sales
are doing well. But if you want your own card
Doctor T shirt, you can get it there, and we
appreciate it. And I wish somebody would explain to me
because I don't understand it why RI Automotive T shirts
are out selling Car Doctor T shirts. I don't know
if I should be offended or not, since I'm both
one and the same, but it's the weirdest thing. RI
(32:39):
Automotive T shirts, which are available there as well, Russ,
and for everybody else Cardoctorshow dot com. RI Automotive T
shirts are out selling Car Doctor T shirts two to one.
I can't figure it out, but maybe I'm gonna have
a whole bunch of I'll keep waiting. I'm thinking maybe
I'm gonna have like four hundred people show up to
work one day at the shop and I won't notice
it's them because they'll be wearing the blue and white.
But of that's where you can go. Get that and
(33:02):
another call. Another email, this one from Tom writes in
from North Carolina. Hey, Ron, I heard you talking in
last week about a jump pack, but I came in
at the end of the show and I couldn't catch
the whole thing. Can you tell me again? What's the
name of the product you were talking about? Yeah, Tom,
you're talking about I was talking about. I was talking
about the Schumacher jump Pack, Part number sixteen eleven. Works
(33:23):
real well, rugged, does a lot of things. USB ports
three and one charging a lot of great features. The
Schoemacher sixteen eleven is what you're after. I'm Ronning Aeny
and the car Doctor reminding you till the next time.
Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See
Host
Ron Ananian
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