Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor – Show Summary: “Proximity of Repair”
This week, Ron explores the concept of proximity of repair—the idea that if a mechanic is already accessing one part of the car, related repairs nearby shouldn't be billed as full separate jobs. He illustrates this with a 2017 Toyota RAV4 that came in after a $79.95 oil change at a dealer. The customer was hit with nearly $5,000 in recommended repairs, including axles, seals, and ball joints. Ron broke down the quote and found much of the labor was inflated due to overlapping work.
Ron warns against loss leader oil changes that lead to unnecessary upsells and urges listeners to question labor charges: “Are they already in that area of the car?” Always ask.
This Weeks Calls:
Anthony from Maine reports repeated issues with his 2020 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid—dead battery, hybrid recall, and a Smart Key failure.
Barbara called about her rusted 2010 Buick Lucerne. She’s put $4,000 into it but now needs $6,000 in bodywork to pass inspection.
Ron’s advice: Don’t do it. The car’s too old, the rust too deep. Time to move on.
The Mystery Battery Drain:
Caller Fred has found a 2.6-amp draw on a 2005 Lesabre but couldn’t isolate it.
Ron’s advice: Start with the underhood fuse box — it likely feeds the rest. Pulling fuses in the wrong order can mislead you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners Alife. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
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zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
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channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your injuries. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I want to talk about proximity of repair today. Hello
and welcome. We had a boy. There's a lot I
could talk about this week because let me tell you
it was it was a full moon Thursday, wasn't it.
I think so? And you could see it. Everybody was,
you know, full moon auto repair shows. Let me let
me preface today by this, okay, before we get started,
(01:11):
or as we get started. Full Moon Auto Repair and
Full Moon Auto Repair shows are usually wild. So I
don't know what's going to happen in the next two hours,
but I'm wide open anything as possible, you know. I
can tell you that it was the week of It
was just it was just simple things. Well, how did
the car get here while I drove it? Okay? Great,
(01:31):
and you know, but I had to make a left
and a right and it wasn't a clear cut answer.
And I said, and who's putting gas in it? And
it was in reference to a Toyota that the gas
cap was left off and it had set a fault coat.
And she said, well, I am, I paid for it.
I said, yeah, I know. But do you do it
yourself or do you have somebody do it for you? Well,
you can't do it for yourself in New Jersey. You
have to have somebody do it it. Just I just
(01:52):
wanted clear cut yes or no answers. And I couldn't
get that. It was that isn't what got me. It
was it was all the rest of the repairs that
were mixed and around these this week that you know,
made me kind of kick my head to the side,
and this week was a study in human emotion is
probably the best way that I could describe it. And
I was telling Tom before the show it even ended,
(02:12):
you know, here we are show day, and I went,
I went to my favorite deli here in New Jersey
to get to get to get lunch. And Paul, the
owner knows what I do, you know, mechanic, and he
knows what the day is today. He says, hey, you
getting ready to do your show today? And the woman
standing at the front of the line was sitting there listening.
And the second time it happened to me today, I
(02:33):
got to stop talking and she kicked her head to
the side. When and Paul said what times the show starting?
I said two o'clock and he said, and she's looked
at me and she went are you Ron? And Andian?
And the guy for people back in the Delhi line
kick picked his head up from the phone and just went, huh.
So it's just been that kind of a week. It
just it's just weird. By the way, Wilkes Delhi Mawa.
(02:55):
I have to do a shout out best potato salad
in the county, absolutely the best. It's just just great.
And he's not paying me to say that. He doesn't
even know I'm saying it. So But anyway, we had
a Toyota this week, another one, a different one, a
RAF four, a seventeen RAF four that had gone to
the local Toyota dealer and it went in for an
(03:15):
oil change. It went in for the seventy nine ninety
five special, which again I love these lost Leader oil changes.
I love the fact that we still can't figure it out,
meaning the motoring public and the rest of the industry
can't figure it out that we're losing money on this.
But let's keep doing it anyway, Let's mislead the public
on what an oil change's value is, because an oil change,
(03:38):
it's more than the monetary value. It's about the thoroughness
and the accuracy and the safety. And I could probably
talk for two hours just about how many things we
see wrong on a simple oil change, because there's no
such thing as simple anymore. There just isn't wrong. Gas
gets no, gas gets loose, drain plugs, filters that are
(03:58):
crushed on that you have to air. You question the
validity of the quality of the oil when you look
at the bill. Are they really using oil rated for
your European class of automobile? Are they really using oil
rated for a turbo charger? And so on and so
on and so on, because some of the questions I
get indicate to me that people are still thinking it's
conventional oil. They're shocked that we're using a full synthetic.
(04:20):
They're looking for the cheapest way out because they don't
realize the true value of an oil change. So we
had this Toyota that came in after the seventy nine
Andy five special, and it as usual, they got the
seventy nine to ninety five, they had the oil change done,
and they had the list of forty eight and thirty
two dollars in change of service work that the vehicle needed.
(04:42):
It needed two front drive axles, It needed a left
side axle seal, It needed trans fluid service, it needed
transfer case fluid service. You know, it needed two lower
ball joints, It needed a wheel alignment, and the list
went on and on and on. Ron, can you tell
us that this really needs it?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Or not?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Trust you? And I get that, And I think I
wrote myself notes during the week as I'm keeping track
of this in my diary because I'm collecting thoughts for
the book, which I have started, by the way, and
you know, trust is just so high up in that
list of what you guys are looking for. But what
got me with this wrap four? As I read it,
(05:23):
it was five hours to replace both front drive axles. Okay,
I don't argue the time that right side axle. As
a matter of fact, we're in the process of doing
the job. We had to cut the axle bearing support off,
which is no easy task because there's a plastic overhang
of the intake manifold on this particularly four cylinder Toyota
that makes it a little You gotta be careful what
you're doing there, all right, But then it was three
(05:47):
hours to do the two ball joints that you have
to unbolt to get the axle out, and then it
was an hour I'm sorry, it was two hours to
get the axle seal out of the left side of
the transmission which once the axel was out, to change it.
It's if it takes you longer than fifteen minutes, you
shouldn't be allowed to fix cars, because either that, you know,
(06:09):
you can't chew gum and walk at the same time.
There's something wrong with you that you're just not equipped
or you're just not capable. It's one or the other.
And when I added it up, the nine and a half,
almost ten hours that the dealer was quoting for this repair.
And I shouldn't say dealer, because I think I see
this another repair. I see this. I do see this
in other repair shops. The repair facility, which just happened
to be a dealer, I'll be fair, was almost eleven
(06:32):
hours of work that is probably I legitimate in all
three to five. And I just you know that seventy
nine to ninety five oil change just generates so much work.
And there's the loss leader. And I explained this to Frank,
the customer. We talked about it. You know, he wanted
to go over it because he was a little bit
shocked how much work this eighty thousand mile wrapped four
(06:54):
Because Toyota does obviously have such a good service reputation,
you know, they last and so on and so forth.
How could all this? And I explained the to I said, yes,
the axle boots are not ripped, which is what he
was told. I said, they're seeping. The band clamps have
started to loosen up, they're seeping grease. I said, the
one on the left side is a little more beat
up and fragile. You know, if you want to put
(07:15):
two axles in it, I get it. If you want,
we can reboot it. We gave him some options. He
plans on keeping the cars, so he opted for you know,
new axles right from Toyota. Fine, wonderful, we'll do that.
And it's probably, like I said, four or five hours
of work, you know, with an alignment. And and he said,
but why, he said, why do they do that? Because
(07:36):
you know and I get it. Listen, you guys get
upset when you discover this. And I explained proximity of
repair to him. And if you walk away from this
opening rant with one phrase in your head, I want
you to remember that proximity of repair. Ask them, Hey,
you're taking ball joints at when you are the ball
joints anywhere near the axle are is the axle seal?
(07:59):
You know, as a result of taking the axle out,
you know, why is it so much to do in
axle seal that's already exposed. There's a layered effect when
you're working on cars. And I explained that to Frank.
I said, well, I don't understand because you're basically you know,
when you take the ball joint, disassemble it, it's three
nuts and the ball joints out. It's fifteen minutes. But
yet they've got three hours quoted. You've got to look
(08:23):
and understand. Look at a grocery store if you want
to understand how water repair works. In some cases, there's
a huge truth to the fact that most grocery stores
you ever noticed this, they put the ice cream and
cookies all the way in the back, and the vegetables
are the first thing you see when you walk in
the store. I think it's because nobody ever goes running
(08:44):
into a grocery store and says, oh my god, where's
the spinach? Right in a fit of Oh I've got
to have my spinach tonight. I'm gonna be Popeye. I'm
dating myself again. You know, it's where's the ice cream?
I'm in the mood for ice cream. Nobody's sitting at
their kitchen table after dinner goes. I think I'm in
the move for a bowl of spinach. It's a nice, warm,
wellus night. Let me so it's a trip to the supermarket.
(09:05):
If the junk food run. Everybody in America does it.
And where is it. It's all the way in the
back of the store, so you have to walk past everything.
It's a loss leader in the sense because they'll put
it on sale two for one. Auto repair kind of
does the same thing they bring in for the cheap
oil change. It gives them another opportunity to do the upsell,
to look the vehicle over, take the chance that there's
(09:28):
something wrong with it, or maybe something close to being
wrong with it, and they take another swing at selling
this stuff. I had a similar experience, and I'll tell
you this real quick and then we're going to go,
because it's not just auto repair. Has anybody been getting
phone calls from QuickBooks into it. I've been getting phone
calls that the credit card on file is going to
(09:48):
expire in the service I'm paying for. It isn't going
to be valid after such and such a date in July.
And I know for a fact the credit card is valid.
I manage it. I manage that account. So after the
third phone call, voicemail, email message, I said, you know what,
let me let me call customer service. I call customer service.
Long story short. The guy that I could barely understand
(10:11):
about five maybe eight minutes into the conversation of yeah,
you do have the right credit card on file. By
the way, how would you like QuickBooks online? We've got
a special going on now. So I stopped them. I said,
hold up, I said, you're trying to sell me more
service from a company so inept and incapable. You can't
keep track of the credit card or this is just
outright to seat, which is it? And that's when he
(10:36):
started the backpedal. And you know one good thing about
udo repair, I can I can usually spot the nonsense
right away. And I tell you these things because I'm
trying to teach you. Hopefully, if you don't know how
to spot the nonsense, think about proximity of repair, think
about how does the car feel? How could that much
be wrong with it? And by all means, if you
(10:58):
have any doubts, be like Frank, go get a second opinion.
Frank saved about two grand and it's it's not because
you know it's us. A second opinion might generate something else.
And hopefully you've got a more trusted mechanic than Frank
did when he went to that particular repair shop, facility dealership,
(11:18):
et cetera. Eighty five five six zero nine nine zero
zero running in the car doctor. I'm coming back right
after this to open the phones. Let's see where we go.
Stay tuned. Let's get over to Anthony. Your return call
from last week, Anthony Maine, still dealing with his twenty
RAB hybrid. Anthony, Welcome back to the car doctor, sir.
What'd you find out?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Well, here's what I found out. First of all, I'd
like to pick up your last thing you've talked about
was nonsense from some company. Well, I took my car,
my RAB four, back to the dealer, and the basic
what they told me the problem was your car needs
to be drink driven more. And I mentioned this some friends.
(12:03):
They said, what your car needs to be driven more?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Refresh our memory, Anthony, what was wrong with this car?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Battery problems?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Okay, not the hybrid battery, the regular battery.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Well, no, no, that thing is. I think it's both.
I think it was the regular battery. And then the
second time I brought to the dealer, I think was
the hybrid battery. It was like a battery recall.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, right, so right, I remember this. This had the
main wiring harness running along the floor pan recalled done
to it exactly. So the problem with the car is
that it doesn't start or it's turning on false codes.
What was the actual condition?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Okay, the first time it's it the battery was just
dead and it had to be jump started to get home.
The second time, on April sixteenth, that's when I had
that hybrid problem, battery problem, and I had to wait
six weeks for to get repaired because there are other
cars waiting to be other toyos waiting to be fixed.
(13:05):
Then the third time, on July fourth, of all days,
I got a warning that said smart key malfunction see
owners manual. I think I talked about this last Saturday,
right and it said press SOS button. Well, it turns
out there is no SOS button on the twenty twenty
(13:26):
rav four. So at this time, and I paid thirty
two thousand for this last July, and I believe in
you know, three strikes and you're out. And I've already
you know, filling out information about the main Lemon law.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
How many miles are how many miles are on it now? Anthony?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
About one hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You've got one hundred thousand miles on this car.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
In a year or you no, no, right right now?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
You went from third went from thirty two thousand to
one hundred thousand miles in a year.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
No, no, thirty two thousand dollars is what I Oh, Okay,
how many miles I'm sorry, How many miles were on
it when you bought it?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
How many miles did you drive in a year? Is
what I'm trying to find out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah, what do you think, ballpark? I've got it right here,
right from here. Yeah, seven thousand and thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Reasonable, it's a reasonable amount of mileage.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
But what it is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But what you're describing to me is three different scenarios.
You're describing a dead battery, You're describing a hybrid fault,
which I would assume turned on some check engine lights
or dashboard warning lights or it was it was right.
And then you're describing a smart key situation. You're you're
describing three different faults. So what has that got to
(14:50):
do with you driving the vehicle? More? When you when
you when the car did the last fault? The smart
key SOS button Mischig Gossa's mom would say, yeah, how
did you get the car started?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I had a toad to the dealer.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Okay, and what they do.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
This is and that's what happened. They sent me that
informed or they they told me that the car needs
to be driven.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
More so, does the car work properly?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Now?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, it works properly.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Now, so are they telling you? Are they blaming it
on the fact that the we'll call it the starting battery,
not the hybrid battery. Are they blaming it on that
the starting battery was low voltage?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I don't know about that. That's good. But they did
replace the battery back in November when this whole problem happened.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So the smart key problem, this is the second time
you've had this situation. It occurred back in November as well.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
No, the smart keyth thing only happened on July fourth.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Okay, what happened last November?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It happened again. The car was just dead November fifth,
set for twelve hours and then I was ready to
go home and nothing happened. Car wouldn't even turn over,
and that's when I had to have it towed home.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I've got to tell you, this car sounds like it's
got an intermittent parasitic draw.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Okay, Yeah, and you're gonna probably talk about the Oh god,
what are you to called the I have it written
down here for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to talk about.
I'm gonna talk about let's diagnose it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask them to do a long
term diagnosis. And the way you're gonna do it is
somebody's gonna take a digital vault home meter, a multimeter,
put it in min max record mode. Uh huh, and
(16:52):
let the car sit for twenty four hours on silent
draw and set it up and measure the draw it.
Does it ever wake up? In other words, you can
take you take a multimeter, which is the electrical measuring device. Uh.
If you leave it on, most most dv oms digital
voltome meters go to sleep after twenty minutes. But if
(17:13):
you if you put it in men max mode, the
meters stay awake. The biggest the biggest risk you've got
doing a test like this is you're gonna you're gonna
kill the nine volt battery. So it'll cost you four bucks.
All right, stay put in, Anthony, let me let me
pull over and take this puse. When we come back,
I'll finish up with you. I've got a bunch of
(17:34):
calls we're backed up on. But let me let me
just finish with you. So I give you a good direction,
and you know, have a pencil and paper ready. We'll
talk about a few things. I'm ronnin Any and the
car doctor eight five five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. I'll be back right after this. Okay, we're back,
and let's get right back to Anthony. Anthony, I got
two minutes for you. Listen to me. Have you a
(17:55):
couple of questions. Have you talked to Toyota Corporate yet
about this car?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yes? Yes I did.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And when you talk to the Toyota dealer, are you
talking to the service manager or one of the writers?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay, what car of car did you drive before this Toyota?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I actually I regular Toyota Wrap four.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay? Has you're driving that makes it even worse? Have
your driving habits changed since you purchased this vehicle? Still
driving about the same amount of miles?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Okay. So my question is this that I want you
to ask them since this is the second car I've
purchased from you, guys, because I believe in you, guys,
that you can help me with my motoring needs. Why
is it? Since I haven't changed my driving habits, why
is it all of a sudden this particular car requires
me to drive it more in order to prevent the
battery from going dead.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, at three dollars a down.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Too right, right, Well, that's it's material, but it's immterial.
It's it's we're talking about physics here. Either this car
has an intermittent electrical drain or some sort of an
electrical problem that you go out there, hit the smart
key button and the battery voltage is so low, And
I'd like to hear that. I'd like to hear somebody say, hey,
(19:06):
we diagnosed it was towed in. It said, you know,
smart key problem, YadA YadA yah. And if the battery
voltage falls below a specific voltage, if it goes below
ten point two volts, the system won't work. I'd like
to hear, Hey, battery voltage was low. The draw came
up and pulled it down. It was enough to turn
on dashlights, but not enough to start the car. That
type of a thing.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, can I just I want to mention real quick
before we go. It says they checked for the draw
on system. And found system within specifications. Then they checked
the system when the DCM updates, none found. I just
thought that that should be interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know, if somebody's got an intermittent problem and I
checked for it Tuesday at three o'clock, but the problem
happens Tuesday at six o'clock, what good is that. That's
why I want to do a twenty four hour draw test,
or even a thirty six hour draw test, as long
as you want to give up the vehicle, all right,
and you know by by using a DVM or recording
(20:03):
lab scope or some piece of diagnostic equipment that will
stay on and you know, do a heart trace like
you're hooked up in the hospital. Right let the car,
Let the car sit and look for a draw because
the only other option is you've got to replace the vehicle.
And I know, I know you're already leaning in that direction.
I would give them. I would give them a shot.
I would give the dealer itself a shot. I would
(20:23):
give Toyota Corporate a shot. You've got the ammunition, brother,
talk to them, Explain to them, you're my mechanics. Tell
me what to do with this car. Because I have
a hard time buying that it's about driving more because
it's different than my last car. All right, call us back,
let us know what you find. Barbara and Pennsylvania. I
know you have to run. Okay, I'm so sorry probing.
(20:48):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Okay, I have a twenty ten vehiclescern. I bought it
in December twenty fifteen. It had thirty five thousand miles.
It had only owners before that. The friend I bought
it from bought it at five thousand miles and put
about thirty thousand on it, and he said, you know,
ran really well well in I need to get it
(21:12):
inspected in Pennsylvania by the end of July. And it's
I've put since last December all new. I had the
transmission not flushed, but changed new transmission lines, new motor mount.
I've had the front and that both bearing hub assemblies done,
(21:36):
and all new brake lines because the brakes failed. And
so I've put like four thousand dollars in it since December.
And I checked with a very reputable, highly recommended body
shop that several people had recommended. So he's fair, honest,
and he does good work. And he gave me an
estimate of six thousand dollars for the bodywork because the
(21:58):
rocker annals are gone. And he said, because it's a
unibody construction, he would want to do it properly for
it to be safe, and he wouldn't recommend that I
have the body work done. But you know, and in
twenty twenty two, I hit a deer. The front you
know of the car was crunched back, so I had
(22:20):
to get a new hood, new radiator, new headlights. So
I've I feel like I've kind of rebuilt this car.
I've had new you know, new brakes, I think number.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Well, not yet you haven't. You haven't done the body yet, kiddo.
So but you're closed.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
You just don't know which way to go here.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And your question to me is should you fix it?
Because the part I think you left out is in
Pennsylvania you need a rust free you can't have sharp
edges and rust in order to pass the inspection.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Right, right, And I don't want to fix just to
you know, pass inspection, but so it will be safe too, right.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So how many how many miles around the car? Now?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It has one hundred and eight And I always get
you a changed you know, I've put new rear shocks
on I mean I've put a lot of you know,
little things, wintled wiper motor, left pass or driver's side
right the window motor. I mean, it's just I feel
like I've been rebuilding it. Right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
The problem is it's fifteen years old, it's got one
hundred and ten thousand miles on it. Regardless of the
money that you've put in it, it now needs structural repair.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know, rust is for lack of a better way
to put it, cancer and it's it's hard to get
all of it because it just spreads. It's it's bad.
And you know, I would leave it up to the
body guy if the body guy is cringing and repairing it,
because he can cut out and patch and do panels
(23:50):
where he sees it. But it's where else is it
that you can't see? And in two years when the
rust starts to bubble the paint and and do the
same thing with the metal again. M hmm, you're you're
throwing good money after bed and then you're then you're
ten grand into a fifteen year old, hundred thousand mile car,
(24:11):
right that I know.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I'm just in, you know, between a rock and a
hard place. Probably way to go. Yeah, you afation.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I guess let's let's let's let's do this by the
numbers real quick. Okay, you know, can you afford to
go out and buy another car?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, I if I have no choice, I'll just, you know,
have to bite the bullet and do it. You know,
people say, well, what's your budget? I said, I didn't
have a I don't have a budget for a new car.
I know you say you should put away money, you know,
et cetera, in anticipation, but right right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You just you just you just it's hard to catch
up these days. I understand that.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
My concern is and I always play. I play this
game at the counter, you know, and you know the
game that's coming. We're going to talk about what if?
So if if? What if you put all this money
into the body and the body comes out great, and
three months from now the trans itself fails and it's
five thousand dollars to put a transmission in the car.
It's conceivable. It's fifteen years old, it's got the mileage
(25:15):
all right, and you've put enough parts on this car.
You said you did break lines, right, not just breaks themselves,
but you did break lines.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
The lines themselves, all new breaks, rotors, pads, and the
new brake lines because it's just failed. I didn't have
a choice. I had never told right now because it's
all new transmission lines just.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Because it's that rusty. Right, you're changing these things because
it's that rusty. So in my mind, I'm seeing a car.
The word I use is crunchy. It's getting crunchy under there.
I think we go look at used cars. I think
we put a budget down. It doesn't have to be new.
(25:55):
I think we go and try and see as much
as it might hurt. What twenty five thousand dollars would
buy WHOA, Yeah, well that's that's the game.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Listen. I know someone just purchased a two thousand and
seven Lexus es three hundred nine grand for the car,
nine percent interest, one hundred thousand miles, so the used
car market. And as I said to him, I said, lou,
you know you're buying something seventeen years old, nine grand,
one hundred thousand miles. You're going to be married to
(26:25):
this for five years. Whatever happens happens. And he understands
that he's willing to roll the dice, but you know,
to get out of and to get into something age
and mileage costs now, it really does unless you unless
you find that clean one owner whatever. But you know what,
Pennsylvania salt snow high, you know, high rust. It's considered
(26:46):
part of the rust belt. I'm not picking on Pennsylvania.
I love Pennsylvania, but you know, I know what happens
to the cars out there. I think I think, as
as much as it's going to hurt, I think adding
more money, you know, you know, you don't push the
chips back on the table when you've when you've sort
of gotten this far and run the risk.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Okay, well, how my next question is how do I
go about selling.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
This as is somebody? Because listen, do you like me? Well,
you know, two thousand dollars? Okay, just come up with
a number, you know what. And I'm not I'm not
condoning this, but some people, Listen, I just inspected a jeep.
(27:31):
It was two years overdue inspection, two years and the
girl's father is a lawyer. So I'm not picking on lawyers,
but I'm saying, you think somebody would have situational awareness
of legality. Some people will drive a car that isn't
inspected and they don't care. Wow, right and right, and
the fact that you have a conscious and you're trying
to follow the rules of the road. Don't penalize yourself
(27:54):
if somebody wants to give you money for it. Here
it is, Here are my bills, Here's what I've done.
It needs this bodywork rep haired in order to pass inspection, because,
for all you know, somebody from New Jersey will buy it.
In New Jersey. You could drive that car, which is
a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So all right, okay, thank you very much. I enjoy
your show.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Thank you, thank you. I hope I help you be well.
I'm running Andy in the car. Doctor. We're back right
after this. Okay, Fred North Carolina, you're there.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Okay, Let's see if I can squeeze you in and
I'll come back to you after the pause. Oh five,
builcle saber. You've got a battery draw right right, So
give me a real quick yeah, give me a quick
rundown on what's going on here.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
This is a friend's car.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
She needed help.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
She has a drawled owner battery. Apparently overnight it will discharge.
She'll get it recharged. Her mechanic right, sorry about that.
Go ahead, Fred, and then maybe the next night it
will draw down again and she won't be able to
turn the if you won't be able to start it.
So I said, I can get you started at least
(29:05):
trying to figure out where the problem is. So I'd
agreed to do that, and I tested the parasitic drawl
on her battery. I waited, well, I disconnected the negative
terminal from the negative cable, put those multimeter in series,
(29:25):
put it on ten amps. It was immediately reading six
point six amps. This is before it goes to sleep.
So I wait ten minutes and write. About ten minutes,
I see the numbers start changing and it gets to
about two point six two point seven amps. I wait,
and I wait, and I wait and await. I went
await another hour, and it's still sitting on that same spot.
(29:48):
So I said, okay, well, there's probably a light bulb
in somewhere. Well, I proceed to pull one fuse at
a time and watch the meter, which fuse box. I
started with the back seat fuse box, which is all
the accessory stuff anyway, and I'm not in the car.
(30:08):
I'm you know, I can see the meter, but I'm
not in the car. I'm just pulling fuses. I'm sorry,
I'm in the back seat, but they all the doors
are closed. Apologize, I forgot that. I'm sitting in the
back seat, Well what what's left of the back seat
and pulling one circuit fuse at a time. And I've
(30:28):
sent you a spreadsheet which shows all of the circuits
that have significantly drops in the in the uh in
the amverriage when I pull a fuse. But they and
there's there's a dozen of them. All these circuits have
current going through them. And I put the one fuse
(30:50):
back and it goes back to the two point sixty
seven amps or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Do you pull fuses out of the underhood fuse box?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Yeah, I did that too, after I finished with the
back seat fuse box.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Okay, and what kind of result did you get there?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Well, there were two circuits there that were drawing. One
was the powertrain control module battery how do you know
what that is? And then another one called accessory. Those
are just the names of the circuit.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, tell you what fretz. Sit tight, hang on, let
me pull over. When I come back, we'll have some
answers for you. Don't go away, I'm running Anie in
the car. Doctor, we will return run an Innian right here. Fred,
you're still there, I'm here. So let's let's back up
a second. You've got two fuses that are causing the
draw to go away, PCM and accessory.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
No, no, no, I've got twelve circuits that are drawing.
Those two were pretty small ones. I've got eight or
ten in the backseat fuse box.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, well, let's back one. Yeah, let's back up a second, though. See,
I want you to start with the front fuse box.
What you're doing is what you're doing is great. You
got the right idea, but you're starting backwards because the
front box feeds the rear box.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Okay, So I.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Want to know which fuse up front kills the rear
box kills the draw. One of the fuses up front
has to kill the draw.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Well, I pulled. I pulled all the fuses one at
a time. I didn't none of them came to two
point six amps. I had the forty four MILLIONAM draw
on the powertrain control module battery and a one hundred
and forty five milli MILLIAMP draw under accessory. The two
(32:29):
circuits under the hood.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Did any of the front fuses being pulled caused the
draw to go away.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
No, they never got below it's the drop went from
two point six two point seven amps to one hundred
and forty five millionamps below that. That's as far as
it would draw.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Right, But that's that's Hang on a second. That's pulling
a front fuse fuse box.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, okay, the whole the whole circuit had two point
seven amps coming through, right, But.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Keep in mind when you when you start pulling fuses,
when you start pulling fuses and plugging them back in,
you're going to rewake up modules that went to sleep.
The way you're doing it is right. You know what,
fred I want to talk to this about this off air.
Send me an email Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. All right,
we'll continue this conversation. I want to make sure you've
(33:27):
got a wiring diagram to follow and we'll take it
from there. Because you're trying to do a good thing,
Let's see if we can help you out a little
bit more. I'm running any in the car doctor until
the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See
you
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
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(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I want to talk about proximity of repair today. Hello
and welcome. We had a boy. There's a lot I
could talk about this week because let me tell you
it was it was a full moon Thursday, wasn't it.
I think so? And you could see it. Everybody was,
you know, full moon auto repair shows. Let me let
me preface today by this, okay, before we get started,
(01:11):
or as we get started. Full Moon Auto Repair and
Full Moon Auto Repair shows are usually wild. So I
don't know what's going to happen in the next two hours,
but I'm wide open anything as possible, you know. I
can tell you that it was the week of It
was just it was just simple things. Well, how did
the car get here while I drove it? Okay? Great,
(01:31):
and you know, but I had to make a left
and a right and it wasn't a clear cut answer.
And I said, and who's putting gas in it? And
it was in reference to a Toyota that the gas
cap was left off and it had set a fault coat.
And she said, well, I am, I paid for it.
I said, yeah, I know. But do you do it
yourself or do you have somebody do it for you? Well,
you can't do it for yourself in New Jersey. You
have to have somebody do it it. Just I just
(01:52):
wanted clear cut yes or no answers. And I couldn't
get that. It was that isn't what got me. It
was it was all the rest of the repairs that
were mixed and around these this week that you know,
made me kind of kick my head to the side,
and this week was a study in human emotion is
probably the best way that I could describe it. And
I was telling Tom before the show it even ended,
(02:12):
you know, here we are show day, and I went,
I went to my favorite deli here in New Jersey
to get to get to get lunch. And Paul, the
owner knows what I do, you know, mechanic, and he
knows what the day is today. He says, hey, you
getting ready to do your show today? And the woman
standing at the front of the line was sitting there listening.
And the second time it happened to me today, I
(02:33):
got to stop talking and she kicked her head to
the side. When and Paul said what times the show starting?
I said two o'clock and he said, and she's looked
at me and she went are you Ron? And Andian?
And the guy for people back in the Delhi line
kick picked his head up from the phone and just went, huh.
So it's just been that kind of a week. It
just it's just weird. By the way, Wilkes Delhi Mawa.
(02:55):
I have to do a shout out best potato salad
in the county, absolutely the best. It's just just great.
And he's not paying me to say that. He doesn't
even know I'm saying it. So But anyway, we had
a Toyota this week, another one, a different one, a
RAF four, a seventeen RAF four that had gone to
the local Toyota dealer and it went in for an
(03:15):
oil change. It went in for the seventy nine ninety
five special, which again I love these lost Leader oil changes.
I love the fact that we still can't figure it out,
meaning the motoring public and the rest of the industry
can't figure it out that we're losing money on this.
But let's keep doing it anyway, Let's mislead the public
on what an oil change's value is, because an oil change,
(03:38):
it's more than the monetary value. It's about the thoroughness
and the accuracy and the safety. And I could probably
talk for two hours just about how many things we
see wrong on a simple oil change, because there's no
such thing as simple anymore. There just isn't wrong. Gas
gets no, gas gets loose, drain plugs, filters that are
(03:58):
crushed on that you have to air. You question the
validity of the quality of the oil when you look
at the bill. Are they really using oil rated for
your European class of automobile? Are they really using oil
rated for a turbo charger? And so on and so
on and so on, because some of the questions I
get indicate to me that people are still thinking it's
conventional oil. They're shocked that we're using a full synthetic.
(04:20):
They're looking for the cheapest way out because they don't
realize the true value of an oil change. So we
had this Toyota that came in after the seventy nine
Andy five special, and it as usual, they got the
seventy nine to ninety five, they had the oil change done,
and they had the list of forty eight and thirty
two dollars in change of service work that the vehicle needed.
(04:42):
It needed two front drive axles, It needed a left
side axle seal, It needed trans fluid service, it needed
transfer case fluid service. You know, it needed two lower
ball joints, It needed a wheel alignment, and the list
went on and on and on. Ron, can you tell
us that this really needs it?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Or not?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Trust you? And I get that, And I think I
wrote myself notes during the week as I'm keeping track
of this in my diary because I'm collecting thoughts for
the book, which I have started, by the way, and
you know, trust is just so high up in that
list of what you guys are looking for. But what
got me with this wrap four? As I read it,
(05:23):
it was five hours to replace both front drive axles. Okay,
I don't argue the time that right side axle. As
a matter of fact, we're in the process of doing
the job. We had to cut the axle bearing support off,
which is no easy task because there's a plastic overhang
of the intake manifold on this particularly four cylinder Toyota
that makes it a little You gotta be careful what
you're doing there, all right, But then it was three
(05:47):
hours to do the two ball joints that you have
to unbolt to get the axle out, and then it
was an hour I'm sorry, it was two hours to
get the axle seal out of the left side of
the transmission which once the axel was out, to change it.
It's if it takes you longer than fifteen minutes, you
shouldn't be allowed to fix cars, because either that, you know,
(06:09):
you can't chew gum and walk at the same time.
There's something wrong with you that you're just not equipped
or you're just not capable. It's one or the other.
And when I added it up, the nine and a half,
almost ten hours that the dealer was quoting for this repair.
And I shouldn't say dealer, because I think I see
this another repair. I see this. I do see this
in other repair shops. The repair facility, which just happened
to be a dealer, I'll be fair, was almost eleven
(06:32):
hours of work that is probably I legitimate in all
three to five. And I just you know that seventy
nine to ninety five oil change just generates so much work.
And there's the loss leader. And I explained this to Frank,
the customer. We talked about it. You know, he wanted
to go over it because he was a little bit
shocked how much work this eighty thousand mile wrapped four
(06:54):
Because Toyota does obviously have such a good service reputation,
you know, they last and so on and so forth.
How could all this? And I explained the to I said, yes,
the axle boots are not ripped, which is what he
was told. I said, they're seeping. The band clamps have
started to loosen up, they're seeping grease. I said, the
one on the left side is a little more beat
up and fragile. You know, if you want to put
(07:15):
two axles in it, I get it. If you want,
we can reboot it. We gave him some options. He
plans on keeping the cars, so he opted for you know,
new axles right from Toyota. Fine, wonderful, we'll do that.
And it's probably, like I said, four or five hours
of work, you know, with an alignment. And and he said,
but why, he said, why do they do that? Because
(07:36):
you know and I get it. Listen, you guys get
upset when you discover this. And I explained proximity of
repair to him. And if you walk away from this
opening rant with one phrase in your head, I want
you to remember that proximity of repair. Ask them, Hey,
you're taking ball joints at when you are the ball
joints anywhere near the axle are is the axle seal?
(07:59):
You know, as a result of taking the axle out,
you know, why is it so much to do in
axle seal that's already exposed. There's a layered effect when
you're working on cars. And I explained that to Frank.
I said, well, I don't understand because you're basically you know,
when you take the ball joint, disassemble it, it's three
nuts and the ball joints out. It's fifteen minutes. But
yet they've got three hours quoted. You've got to look
(08:23):
and understand. Look at a grocery store if you want
to understand how water repair works. In some cases, there's
a huge truth to the fact that most grocery stores
you ever noticed this, they put the ice cream and
cookies all the way in the back, and the vegetables
are the first thing you see when you walk in
the store. I think it's because nobody ever goes running
(08:44):
into a grocery store and says, oh my god, where's
the spinach? Right in a fit of Oh I've got
to have my spinach tonight. I'm gonna be Popeye. I'm
dating myself again. You know, it's where's the ice cream?
I'm in the mood for ice cream. Nobody's sitting at
their kitchen table after dinner goes. I think I'm in
the move for a bowl of spinach. It's a nice, warm,
wellus night. Let me so it's a trip to the supermarket.
(09:05):
If the junk food run. Everybody in America does it.
And where is it. It's all the way in the
back of the store, so you have to walk past everything.
It's a loss leader in the sense because they'll put
it on sale two for one. Auto repair kind of
does the same thing they bring in for the cheap
oil change. It gives them another opportunity to do the upsell,
to look the vehicle over, take the chance that there's
(09:28):
something wrong with it, or maybe something close to being
wrong with it, and they take another swing at selling
this stuff. I had a similar experience, and I'll tell
you this real quick and then we're going to go,
because it's not just auto repair. Has anybody been getting
phone calls from QuickBooks into it. I've been getting phone
calls that the credit card on file is going to
(09:48):
expire in the service I'm paying for. It isn't going
to be valid after such and such a date in July.
And I know for a fact the credit card is valid.
I manage it. I manage that account. So after the
third phone call, voicemail, email message, I said, you know what,
let me let me call customer service. I call customer service.
Long story short. The guy that I could barely understand
(10:11):
about five maybe eight minutes into the conversation of yeah,
you do have the right credit card on file. By
the way, how would you like QuickBooks online? We've got
a special going on now. So I stopped them. I said,
hold up, I said, you're trying to sell me more
service from a company so inept and incapable. You can't
keep track of the credit card or this is just
outright to seat, which is it? And that's when he
(10:36):
started the backpedal. And you know one good thing about
udo repair, I can I can usually spot the nonsense
right away. And I tell you these things because I'm
trying to teach you. Hopefully, if you don't know how
to spot the nonsense, think about proximity of repair, think
about how does the car feel? How could that much
be wrong with it? And by all means, if you
(10:58):
have any doubts, be like Frank, go get a second opinion.
Frank saved about two grand and it's it's not because
you know it's us. A second opinion might generate something else.
And hopefully you've got a more trusted mechanic than Frank
did when he went to that particular repair shop, facility dealership,
(11:18):
et cetera. Eighty five five six zero nine nine zero
zero running in the car doctor. I'm coming back right
after this to open the phones. Let's see where we go.
Stay tuned. Let's get over to Anthony. Your return call
from last week, Anthony Maine, still dealing with his twenty
RAB hybrid. Anthony, Welcome back to the car doctor, sir.
What'd you find out?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Well, here's what I found out. First of all, I'd
like to pick up your last thing you've talked about
was nonsense from some company. Well, I took my car,
my RAB four, back to the dealer, and the basic
what they told me the problem was your car needs
to be drink driven more. And I mentioned this some friends.
(12:03):
They said, what your car needs to be driven more?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Refresh our memory, Anthony, what was wrong with this car?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Battery problems?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Okay, not the hybrid battery, the regular battery.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Well, no, no, that thing is. I think it's both.
I think it was the regular battery. And then the
second time I brought to the dealer, I think was
the hybrid battery. It was like a battery recall.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, right, so right, I remember this. This had the
main wiring harness running along the floor pan recalled done
to it exactly. So the problem with the car is
that it doesn't start or it's turning on false codes.
What was the actual condition?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Okay, the first time it's it the battery was just
dead and it had to be jump started to get home.
The second time, on April sixteenth, that's when I had
that hybrid problem, battery problem, and I had to wait
six weeks for to get repaired because there are other
cars waiting to be other toyos waiting to be fixed.
(13:05):
Then the third time, on July fourth, of all days,
I got a warning that said smart key malfunction see
owners manual. I think I talked about this last Saturday,
right and it said press SOS button. Well, it turns
out there is no SOS button on the twenty twenty
(13:26):
rav four. So at this time, and I paid thirty
two thousand for this last July, and I believe in
you know, three strikes and you're out. And I've already
you know, filling out information about the main Lemon law.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
How many miles are how many miles are on it now? Anthony?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
About one hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You've got one hundred thousand miles on this car.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
In a year or you no, no, right right now?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
You went from third went from thirty two thousand to
one hundred thousand miles in a year.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
No, no, thirty two thousand dollars is what I Oh, Okay,
how many miles I'm sorry, How many miles were on
it when you bought it?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
How many miles did you drive in a year? Is
what I'm trying to find out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah, what do you think, ballpark? I've got it right here,
right from here. Yeah, seven thousand and thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Reasonable, it's a reasonable amount of mileage.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
But what it is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But what you're describing to me is three different scenarios.
You're describing a dead battery, You're describing a hybrid fault,
which I would assume turned on some check engine lights
or dashboard warning lights or it was it was right.
And then you're describing a smart key situation. You're you're
describing three different faults. So what has that got to
(14:50):
do with you driving the vehicle? More? When you when
you when the car did the last fault? The smart
key SOS button Mischig Gossa's mom would say, yeah, how
did you get the car started?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I had a toad to the dealer.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Okay, and what they do.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
This is and that's what happened. They sent me that
informed or they they told me that the car needs
to be driven.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
More so, does the car work properly?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Now?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, it works properly.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Now, so are they telling you? Are they blaming it
on the fact that the we'll call it the starting battery,
not the hybrid battery. Are they blaming it on that
the starting battery was low voltage?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I don't know about that. That's good. But they did
replace the battery back in November when this whole problem happened.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So the smart key problem, this is the second time
you've had this situation. It occurred back in November as well.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
No, the smart keyth thing only happened on July fourth.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Okay, what happened last November?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It happened again. The car was just dead November fifth,
set for twelve hours and then I was ready to
go home and nothing happened. Car wouldn't even turn over,
and that's when I had to have it towed home.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I've got to tell you, this car sounds like it's
got an intermittent parasitic draw.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Okay, Yeah, and you're gonna probably talk about the Oh god,
what are you to called the I have it written
down here for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to talk about.
I'm gonna talk about let's diagnose it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask them to do a long
term diagnosis. And the way you're gonna do it is
somebody's gonna take a digital vault home meter, a multimeter,
put it in min max record mode. Uh huh, and
(16:52):
let the car sit for twenty four hours on silent
draw and set it up and measure the draw it.
Does it ever wake up? In other words, you can
take you take a multimeter, which is the electrical measuring device. Uh.
If you leave it on, most most dv oms digital
voltome meters go to sleep after twenty minutes. But if
(17:13):
you if you put it in men max mode, the
meters stay awake. The biggest the biggest risk you've got
doing a test like this is you're gonna you're gonna
kill the nine volt battery. So it'll cost you four bucks.
All right, stay put in, Anthony, let me let me
pull over and take this puse. When we come back,
I'll finish up with you. I've got a bunch of
(17:34):
calls we're backed up on. But let me let me
just finish with you. So I give you a good direction,
and you know, have a pencil and paper ready. We'll
talk about a few things. I'm ronnin Any and the
car doctor eight five five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. I'll be back right after this. Okay, we're back,
and let's get right back to Anthony. Anthony, I got
two minutes for you. Listen to me. Have you a
(17:55):
couple of questions. Have you talked to Toyota Corporate yet
about this car?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yes? Yes I did.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And when you talk to the Toyota dealer, are you
talking to the service manager or one of the writers?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay, what car of car did you drive before this Toyota?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I actually I regular Toyota Wrap four.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay? Has you're driving that makes it even worse? Have
your driving habits changed since you purchased this vehicle? Still
driving about the same amount of miles?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Okay. So my question is this that I want you
to ask them since this is the second car I've
purchased from you, guys, because I believe in you, guys,
that you can help me with my motoring needs. Why
is it? Since I haven't changed my driving habits, why
is it all of a sudden this particular car requires
me to drive it more in order to prevent the
battery from going dead.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, at three dollars a down.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Too right, right, Well, that's it's material, but it's immterial.
It's it's we're talking about physics here. Either this car
has an intermittent electrical drain or some sort of an
electrical problem that you go out there, hit the smart
key button and the battery voltage is so low, And
I'd like to hear that. I'd like to hear somebody say, hey,
(19:06):
we diagnosed it was towed in. It said, you know,
smart key problem, YadA YadA yah. And if the battery
voltage falls below a specific voltage, if it goes below
ten point two volts, the system won't work. I'd like
to hear, Hey, battery voltage was low. The draw came
up and pulled it down. It was enough to turn
on dashlights, but not enough to start the car. That
type of a thing.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, can I just I want to mention real quick
before we go. It says they checked for the draw
on system. And found system within specifications. Then they checked
the system when the DCM updates, none found. I just
thought that that should be interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know, if somebody's got an intermittent problem and I
checked for it Tuesday at three o'clock, but the problem
happens Tuesday at six o'clock, what good is that. That's
why I want to do a twenty four hour draw test,
or even a thirty six hour draw test, as long
as you want to give up the vehicle, all right,
and you know by by using a DVM or recording
(20:03):
lab scope or some piece of diagnostic equipment that will
stay on and you know, do a heart trace like
you're hooked up in the hospital. Right let the car,
Let the car sit and look for a draw because
the only other option is you've got to replace the vehicle.
And I know, I know you're already leaning in that direction.
I would give them. I would give them a shot.
I would give the dealer itself a shot. I would
(20:23):
give Toyota Corporate a shot. You've got the ammunition, brother,
talk to them, Explain to them, you're my mechanics. Tell
me what to do with this car. Because I have
a hard time buying that it's about driving more because
it's different than my last car. All right, call us back,
let us know what you find. Barbara and Pennsylvania. I
know you have to run. Okay, I'm so sorry probing.
(20:48):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Okay, I have a twenty ten vehiclescern. I bought it
in December twenty fifteen. It had thirty five thousand miles.
It had only owners before that. The friend I bought
it from bought it at five thousand miles and put
about thirty thousand on it, and he said, you know,
ran really well well in I need to get it
(21:12):
inspected in Pennsylvania by the end of July. And it's
I've put since last December all new. I had the
transmission not flushed, but changed new transmission lines, new motor mount.
I've had the front and that both bearing hub assemblies done,
(21:36):
and all new brake lines because the brakes failed. And
so I've put like four thousand dollars in it since December.
And I checked with a very reputable, highly recommended body
shop that several people had recommended. So he's fair, honest,
and he does good work. And he gave me an
estimate of six thousand dollars for the bodywork because the
(21:58):
rocker annals are gone. And he said, because it's a
unibody construction, he would want to do it properly for
it to be safe, and he wouldn't recommend that I
have the body work done. But you know, and in
twenty twenty two, I hit a deer. The front you
know of the car was crunched back, so I had
(22:20):
to get a new hood, new radiator, new headlights. So
I've I feel like I've kind of rebuilt this car.
I've had new you know, new brakes, I think number.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Well, not yet you haven't. You haven't done the body yet, kiddo.
So but you're closed.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
You just don't know which way to go here.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And your question to me is should you fix it?
Because the part I think you left out is in
Pennsylvania you need a rust free you can't have sharp
edges and rust in order to pass the inspection.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Right, right, And I don't want to fix just to
you know, pass inspection, but so it will be safe too, right.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So how many how many miles around the car? Now?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It has one hundred and eight And I always get
you a changed you know, I've put new rear shocks
on I mean I've put a lot of you know,
little things, wintled wiper motor, left pass or driver's side
right the window motor. I mean, it's just I feel
like I've been rebuilding it. Right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
The problem is it's fifteen years old, it's got one
hundred and ten thousand miles on it. Regardless of the
money that you've put in it, it now needs structural repair.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know, rust is for lack of a better way
to put it, cancer and it's it's hard to get
all of it because it just spreads. It's it's bad.
And you know, I would leave it up to the
body guy if the body guy is cringing and repairing it,
because he can cut out and patch and do panels
(23:50):
where he sees it. But it's where else is it
that you can't see? And in two years when the
rust starts to bubble the paint and and do the
same thing with the metal again. M hmm, you're you're
throwing good money after bed and then you're then you're
ten grand into a fifteen year old, hundred thousand mile car,
(24:11):
right that I know.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I'm just in, you know, between a rock and a
hard place. Probably way to go. Yeah, you afation.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I guess let's let's let's let's do this by the
numbers real quick. Okay, you know, can you afford to
go out and buy another car?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, I if I have no choice, I'll just, you know,
have to bite the bullet and do it. You know,
people say, well, what's your budget? I said, I didn't
have a I don't have a budget for a new car.
I know you say you should put away money, you know,
et cetera, in anticipation, but right right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You just you just you just it's hard to catch
up these days. I understand that.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
My concern is and I always play. I play this
game at the counter, you know, and you know the
game that's coming. We're going to talk about what if?
So if if? What if you put all this money
into the body and the body comes out great, and
three months from now the trans itself fails and it's
five thousand dollars to put a transmission in the car.
It's conceivable. It's fifteen years old, it's got the mileage
(25:15):
all right, and you've put enough parts on this car.
You said you did break lines, right, not just breaks themselves,
but you did break lines.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
The lines themselves, all new breaks, rotors, pads, and the
new brake lines because it's just failed. I didn't have
a choice. I had never told right now because it's
all new transmission lines just.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Because it's that rusty. Right, you're changing these things because
it's that rusty. So in my mind, I'm seeing a car.
The word I use is crunchy. It's getting crunchy under there.
I think we go look at used cars. I think
we put a budget down. It doesn't have to be new.
(25:55):
I think we go and try and see as much
as it might hurt. What twenty five thousand dollars would
buy WHOA, Yeah, well that's that's the game.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Listen. I know someone just purchased a two thousand and
seven Lexus es three hundred nine grand for the car,
nine percent interest, one hundred thousand miles, so the used
car market. And as I said to him, I said, lou,
you know you're buying something seventeen years old, nine grand,
one hundred thousand miles. You're going to be married to
(26:25):
this for five years. Whatever happens happens. And he understands
that he's willing to roll the dice, but you know,
to get out of and to get into something age
and mileage costs now, it really does unless you unless
you find that clean one owner whatever. But you know what,
Pennsylvania salt snow high, you know, high rust. It's considered
(26:46):
part of the rust belt. I'm not picking on Pennsylvania.
I love Pennsylvania, but you know, I know what happens
to the cars out there. I think I think, as
as much as it's going to hurt, I think adding
more money, you know, you know, you don't push the
chips back on the table when you've when you've sort
of gotten this far and run the risk.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Okay, well, how my next question is how do I
go about selling.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
This as is somebody? Because listen, do you like me? Well,
you know, two thousand dollars? Okay, just come up with
a number, you know what. And I'm not I'm not
condoning this, but some people, Listen, I just inspected a jeep.
(27:31):
It was two years overdue inspection, two years and the
girl's father is a lawyer. So I'm not picking on lawyers,
but I'm saying, you think somebody would have situational awareness
of legality. Some people will drive a car that isn't
inspected and they don't care. Wow, right and right, and
the fact that you have a conscious and you're trying
to follow the rules of the road. Don't penalize yourself
(27:54):
if somebody wants to give you money for it. Here
it is, Here are my bills, Here's what I've done.
It needs this bodywork rep haired in order to pass inspection, because,
for all you know, somebody from New Jersey will buy it.
In New Jersey. You could drive that car, which is
a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So all right, okay, thank you very much. I enjoy
your show.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Thank you, thank you. I hope I help you be well.
I'm running Andy in the car. Doctor. We're back right
after this. Okay, Fred North Carolina, you're there.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Okay, Let's see if I can squeeze you in and
I'll come back to you after the pause. Oh five,
builcle saber. You've got a battery draw right right, So
give me a real quick yeah, give me a quick
rundown on what's going on here.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
This is a friend's car.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
She needed help.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
She has a drawled owner battery. Apparently overnight it will discharge.
She'll get it recharged. Her mechanic right, sorry about that.
Go ahead, Fred, and then maybe the next night it
will draw down again and she won't be able to
turn the if you won't be able to start it.
So I said, I can get you started at least
(29:05):
trying to figure out where the problem is. So I'd
agreed to do that, and I tested the parasitic drawl
on her battery. I waited, well, I disconnected the negative
terminal from the negative cable, put those multimeter in series,
(29:25):
put it on ten amps. It was immediately reading six
point six amps. This is before it goes to sleep.
So I wait ten minutes and write. About ten minutes,
I see the numbers start changing and it gets to
about two point six two point seven amps. I wait,
and I wait, and I wait and await. I went
await another hour, and it's still sitting on that same spot.
(29:48):
So I said, okay, well, there's probably a light bulb
in somewhere. Well, I proceed to pull one fuse at
a time and watch the meter, which fuse box. I
started with the back seat fuse box, which is all
the accessory stuff anyway, and I'm not in the car.
(30:08):
I'm you know, I can see the meter, but I'm
not in the car. I'm just pulling fuses. I'm sorry,
I'm in the back seat, but they all the doors
are closed. Apologize, I forgot that. I'm sitting in the
back seat, Well what what's left of the back seat
and pulling one circuit fuse at a time. And I've
(30:28):
sent you a spreadsheet which shows all of the circuits
that have significantly drops in the in the uh in
the amverriage when I pull a fuse. But they and
there's there's a dozen of them. All these circuits have
current going through them. And I put the one fuse
(30:50):
back and it goes back to the two point sixty
seven amps or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Do you pull fuses out of the underhood fuse box?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Yeah, I did that too, after I finished with the
back seat fuse box.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Okay, and what kind of result did you get there?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Well, there were two circuits there that were drawing. One
was the powertrain control module battery how do you know
what that is? And then another one called accessory. Those
are just the names of the circuit.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, tell you what fretz. Sit tight, hang on, let
me pull over. When I come back, we'll have some
answers for you. Don't go away, I'm running Anie in
the car. Doctor, we will return run an Innian right here. Fred,
you're still there, I'm here. So let's let's back up
a second. You've got two fuses that are causing the
draw to go away, PCM and accessory.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
No, no, no, I've got twelve circuits that are drawing.
Those two were pretty small ones. I've got eight or
ten in the backseat fuse box.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, well, let's back one. Yeah, let's back up a second, though. See,
I want you to start with the front fuse box.
What you're doing is what you're doing is great. You
got the right idea, but you're starting backwards because the
front box feeds the rear box.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Okay, So I.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Want to know which fuse up front kills the rear
box kills the draw. One of the fuses up front
has to kill the draw.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Well, I pulled. I pulled all the fuses one at
a time. I didn't none of them came to two
point six amps. I had the forty four MILLIONAM draw
on the powertrain control module battery and a one hundred
and forty five milli MILLIAMP draw under accessory. The two
(32:29):
circuits under the hood.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Did any of the front fuses being pulled caused the
draw to go away.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
No, they never got below it's the drop went from
two point six two point seven amps to one hundred
and forty five millionamps below that. That's as far as
it would draw.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Right, But that's that's Hang on a second. That's pulling
a front fuse fuse box.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, okay, the whole the whole circuit had two point
seven amps coming through, right, But.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Keep in mind when you when you start pulling fuses,
when you start pulling fuses and plugging them back in,
you're going to rewake up modules that went to sleep.
The way you're doing it is right. You know what,
fred I want to talk to this about this off air.
Send me an email Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. All right,
we'll continue this conversation. I want to make sure you've
(33:27):
got a wiring diagram to follow and we'll take it
from there. Because you're trying to do a good thing,
Let's see if we can help you out a little
bit more. I'm running any in the car doctor until
the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See
you
Host
Ron Ananian
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