Why Car Repairs Really Cost So Much | The Car Doctor
Car repair bills are rising—and Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor, breaks down why. In this episode, he shares real stories from the repair shop, from rising subscription fees for tools like Identifix to the hidden expenses of modern diagnostics. Learn how technology, labor, and supply chain challenges all drive repair costs—and what every car owner should know before their next service visit.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners Alife. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join The Conversation Live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow
dot com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to The Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to tell you why i oder repair is
so expensive. I think it's a good place to story.
You guys love the stories from the shop, real stiff
from the days. Well here's a real one and it
happened to this week. I have to tell you the
story this way. I'm going to start here, so it's
a little bit of a layered thing. So bear with me.
One of my information systems, Identifis, is going up thirty
(01:11):
five dollars next month. You know now it'll be well
over two hundred dollars for this identification subscription. That that's good.
It does provide some timely information. It is I always
say it's Google on steroids. It gives me verified repairs
and helps sometimes point you in a direction when you're
up against it and you're trying to find a direction.
(01:34):
It will help dig through the pattern failures and put
it all together in one paragraph. It's not perfect, but
it's a direction. It's another informational source. But there's a
cost that comes with it. So you always look at
cost as part of being in business, like anyplace else. Right,
the eggs cost more for the diner, they raise their price.
(01:55):
The beef costs more for the burger place, they raise
their price. This isn't about auto repair raising their price.
Auto repair is deemed expensive anyway, And neither one of
those is really pertinent to this conversation, except everything has value.
Everything that you do in a repair shop you really
have to consider. There's a value to that. There's a
(02:16):
value to what your mechanic is trying to do if
they're trying to do it right, and they're not a
bad mechanic. And the Lord knows there are a bunch
of bad mechanics out there. So one of my favorite
guys in the whole world, my trans builder. I love
him the death great guy. He got himself in a box.
One of the local body shops brought him a twenty
(02:39):
sixteen twenty fifteen gmc akadia recently that remember I told
you this is layered. I started with identifics, remember that
for the second that brought him a gmc acadia that
had a bucking and a shuddering sensation to it. Now,
the body shop tried to diagnose it themselves. And I
know the body shop. They tend not to want to
(03:00):
pay for diagnosis. They tend not to want to diagnose things.
They tend to do things cock eyed, in my opinion,
and it's one of the reasons we don't do business.
It's just easier to you know, fences make the best neighbors,
as they say. And they brought him this transmission or
this vehicle saying that they had diagnosed it themselves. They
(03:22):
put a torque converter in it for the transmission, thinking
that it was a bad torqu converter on lockup, but
that didn't repair it. Now there was no real diagnosis
done is the way it was explained to me. And
that's the part that floors me. See, this is where
order repair gets expensive. Right, had we start this? Why
is auto repair so expensive? They did a repair based
(03:44):
on it felt like this. I never heard anything about.
We pulled out a scan tool, we pulled out a scope,
we did some diagnostics, we looked at bolted nothing just
it must be a converter because it feels like a converter.
Or maybe they did because if you looked at the
pattern failure and I a fix, they would point you
towards a converter. So I, you know, I work with
(04:07):
my trans guy. Listen, I have a great relationship with him.
We can we can walk in and if I were
to drop off something my own vehicle, say hey, rebuild
this for me, they'll rebuild it. And you know it's
a it's a it's an equal great quality exchange of
energy between the two of us. So now he's in
the now he's in the box. He's got this vehicle
that they've already done a transmission or done transmission work too,
(04:29):
which and I wanted to point this out. To put
a converter, a torque converter in a twenty fifteen, twenty
sixteen a Kadi Chevy Traverse, that generation of GM product
is no simple task. This isn't three hours and it's done.
The last time I saw a quote from the dealer
to put a trans in that generation of traverse, a
transmission was eleven grand, and I believe the trans is
(04:51):
around sixty five hundred and seven grand. The risk being
labored because you take everything out, the trans and the
drive train, it comes out as an assembly on a bench,
a portable power bench they call it, and it lowers
down and then you split it. And so this is
a lot of work. But somehow the body shop struggled
through it. They had their night mechanic do it, as
(05:11):
I understand it, and he's a very old school kind
of mechanic, and he would, you know, see to the pants,
sweat of his brow, muscle his way through it, and
he got this torque converter swapped out. Yeah, and it
didn't do anything because the car still had the same problem.
Thirty three thirty four miles an hour, that car still
(05:33):
had that shutter shake, just like a misfire, just like
a bad torque converter. It felt just like that. So
my trans guy, Tom, we're gonna call him. Tom, gets
this transmission or this car with an alleged bad transmission
that the body shop at least wants him to look
(05:55):
at do a diagnosis. Tom looks at it. And one
of the things I love about Tom is, you know what,
He's one of the most honest mechanics I've ever met.
He knows when he's in over his head. Look, I
know when I'm in over my head and I gotta
go get more information. Tom knows when he's in over
his head and he's got to go get more information.
Turns out, on this particular day, I was the more information.
(06:16):
He came over. He said, listen, do you have five minutes?
I didn't, but I always, you know, I always respond
to that cry for help. I would have been good
at a carnival, you know, when they yell hey, Rube
and everybody comes running because the tent's going to fall down.
I would have been great at that. So you know,
Tom comes over, he yells hey, Rube, and off we go.
Scan tool in hand, and I'm thinking about this and
(06:37):
I look at it on a scan tool, and yes,
scan tool is reporting misfires, but they're odd in the
way that it's being reported. Now, Fortunately for Tom and
for the body shop and for the vehicle owner. I
just completed training with Automotive Training Group Misfire and cylinder
(06:58):
power contribution Diagnosed, and this is a whole new way
of looking at misfires. It's a very different ideology. Instead
of you know, living by the code, dying by the code,
living by symptoms, we're looking for specific values biometric pressure, manifold, vacuum,
throttle angle, volumetric efficiency. We're looking at heart rate, blood pressure,
(07:19):
all the critical measurements that you go through to determine
is the engine in reasonable mechanical condition? Yes, okay, your
problem is somewhere else. I haven't got it mastered yet.
I'm not claiming I do. It's a very different way
to look at things, and I'm just learning the ins
and the outs. But here was a chance to test.
(07:42):
The two nights I spent in class and the subsequent
seven days I spent after reading the book every night
and mapping out some theories and possibilities and patterns and
good time to learn. Right, here's that moment. This car
passed every test under the sun. There was no mis
fire coming out of this car. And I said that
with confidence to Tom. I said, this is not a misfire.
(08:04):
This is something else. And when I looked at it
all the time that we're driving the car, even when
it first came over the ABS and the traction control
lighter on HM. So I go in and there's no
fault codes and you know, lived by the code, died
by the code. I don't care the lights on. It's
(08:25):
trying to tell me something. I go look at data
display and data stream for the ABS system, for the
antalock brakes, and I look at the four wheel speed sensor.
It's a great place to start, just in case you're wondering.
And all four report correct mileage except the right rear
wheel speed sensor looks fuzzy. And I'm using a scan tool,
(08:47):
so you can't put too much trust in your interpretation.
It just looks fuzzy. It's jagged. It's not a smooth,
clean signal if we're going to trust the scan tool.
And the reason we don't trust the scan tool is
because it's not an exact one for one pixel data
exchange of information. It's interpreted, it's buffered, we're going through
the memory of the scan tool. There's one hundred of
(09:09):
the reasons why we always say get out the labscope.
But this pattern from the right rear wheel speed sensor
was convoluted enough that I knew something was up. Now
I'm doing Tom a favor, and I'm happy to do
it for him, and I'm not gonna do more than that.
I just handed him back the car and I said
(09:30):
I'd start with fixing the right rear wheel speed sensor circuit.
I don't know that it's a sensor. I don't know
if it's a wheelbaring. I don't know what it is.
But there's something wrong with that right rear wheel speed
circuit that it's aggravating the car to turn on the
abs and traction control lights. And perhaps perhaps you're gonna
fix the car because I could find nothing else wrong.
(09:52):
Everything else, everything else was spot on the money. Mode
six data freees frame, the time of occurrence, mass airflow sensor,
grahams perc second manifold, vacuum, barometric pressure. All of it
was right on the money. I gave him back the car. Now,
keep in mind the body shop put it, took trans
in and out. Okay, they were on the verge of
(10:15):
doing coils and spark plugs when they handed it to Tom.
They also, by the way, took the trans in and
out on one hundred and twenty thousand mile eight year
old vehicle and only put a torquenverter in and on
a trans It's got the durability of a potato chip
in the Atlantic Ocean. Just not a real strong prospect
for survivability. And now they've got this. Maybe it's a
(10:35):
wheel bearing. We know it needs a wheel bearing, let's
start there. Or whatever it is. Turned out it was
a wheel bearing. I'm giving it away. But they ended
up putting a wheel bearing in it because the metallic
tone ring was beat up in half missing, and Tom
discovered that when he went back to his shop put
it up in the air and he started probing around.
He called me Thursday, Hey, Ron, I just want to
(10:55):
let you know the car's fixed. The wheel bearing. The
problem with the right rear fixed problem. You were right, see,
I think what was going on was I think because
that car gets vehicle speed input information off the anti
lock brakes. That it saw an erratic signal out of
the right rear, and it treated the car like it
(11:17):
was going into fuel cut. Fuel cut is something we
haven't talked about in probably every bit of thirty thirty
five years. Fuel cut is a condition in vehicles where
you look at the speed rating of the tires T HV.
T is good for one hundred and twelve miles an hour.
H is good for one hundred and twenty three miles
an hour. V is good for one hundred and forty
(11:37):
six miles an hour. For a twenty minute extended rod test,
et cetera. The government mandated in the eighties that the
vehicles exceeded their tire speed rated miles per hour, the
manufacturer would throw that vehicle into fuel cuts, shut off
the injectors, and just shut it down so the vehicle
can't go any faster. This car seemed like it was
(11:58):
going into fuel cut. When I look at the fuel trim,
I saw it. When I looked at a couple of
other things, I saw it, and I said, this car
is in fuel cut. But I'm not sure why, but
let's fix the wheel speed sensor. Maybe it's affecting vehicle speed.
So I fixed the car. I didn't get paid, Tom
didn't get paid, the body shop got paid. And my
(12:19):
point becomes they probably spent upwards of I don't know,
ten eleven thousand dollars for what should have been a
seven hundred dollars repair because of improper diagnosis. Why is
auto repair so expensive? It's not. There's just a bunch
of bad actors in it that aren't doing the job right.
Eight five five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
(12:40):
I'm fired up and ready to go. Come on back,
let's talk. I'm ronnin Eny in the Car Doctor as
a matter of fact, and then I'll drop the subject
for the moment. Automotive Training Group is bringing that Misfire
Cylinder Contribution class back to New Jersey in September in
Edison on Wednesday, Thursday nights. I think it is the
(13:01):
third and the fourth. I'm going to be there. I'm
going to take the class again because there's never an
excuse for not taking and gathering more information. It was
that good of a class. Let's let's go to Norman
and open the garage doors. Norman. Welcome to the Car Doctor, sir.
How can I help?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yes? Thank you, Ron, I enjoy your show. Every week,
you know, thank you bringing forth these scenarios. And I've
done a lot of mechanic work in my time. I'm
a little older than you are. They told me we're
sixty eight. I'm seventy five.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Now, come on, nobody's older than me. But I get it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
No, right, we're not ready for the geriatric ward yet,
not yet anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
The nuthouse maybe, but definitely not the geriatric ward. So yeah,
what's going on?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
All right? Well, well, I just first of all, I'm
seeing about buying a scan tool. It's not that involved,
but one I saw just to you know, get my
feet wet with some of the newer stuff. Well, the
top Don have you ever heard of there?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I've heard of top Don. Yeah, I've heard of top Don.
I've never played with one. I've heard good stories about them,
good results. I would have no problem with suggesting somebody
go look at one. Whenever I look at a scan tool,
I always look at you know, how fast is the tool,
what's the ability of the tool to arrange the information.
(14:20):
Where a scan tool falls down is get into the
scenario you're looking to fuel trim problem. Can I go
into can I go in to vehicle your make model
and display short term, long term oxygen sensors, engine RPM,
calculated load. You know specific data PIDs that I want
(14:43):
to see easily? Can I Can I retain it? Can
I save it as a favorite?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
This whenever I look at fuel trim, I want this
menu to come up. I want this option. I want
to look at this every time. Can I do that?
How easy is it to move data around? Can I
just bag and drop? Can I take the oxygen sensor
from the top and drag it to the bottom of
the list or do I have to go in and
build the list in some sort of So always I
always look at data management as one of the things.
(15:12):
I also look at how easy is it for me
to print or store the data so I can go
in and when I'm looking at a car with known
good If I'm doing a health check and I've got
a perfectly good twenty twenty three Lexus GX four sixty,
I want to see what is Lexus called for? How
do they allow mass airflow sensor Graham's per second at idle?
(15:33):
You know, where's fuel trim, go under load? What's calculated load?
That kind of thing? How easy can I gather heart rate?
Blood pressure and data and store it to compare to
the next problem vehicle of that generation. So that's that's
important to me, all right. The rest is fluff, you
know after that by directional control is great, but it's
(15:57):
going to be limited by the dollars I'm going to spend.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah. And then of course, you know you have you
have a real good understanding of the fundamentals of an
engine and stuff like that. You have to interject old
time sery too, sure, absolutely, because it makes sense. And
and I was always one for diagnosing and everything else.
And you know, like the battery with a hydrometer and
this and that, and and and and and I usually
(16:23):
would come to a favorable results where you know, I
would use the theory of old school and and and
and you know I'd figure stuff out. Yep. But you know,
with a scan tool, I mean it does, you know,
maybe help point you in the right direction. But then
you still have to use your acclimated native intelligence to
uh accompany me a companient the findings of a scan.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I you know, Norman, I always say a scan tool
gathers information. You still got to use that gray matter
between your ears that God gave you and that's really
that's really the bottom line. So I would look at
the top down. I would you know what sort of
bi directional control? What sort of software updates? Let me
(17:07):
ask you this, Norman, real quick. Do you have a
second question? I hear the music. I'll answer it after
we take the pause. All right, Sit tight, don't go,
don't go anywhere, Norman. Let me pull over and take
this pause so I don't rush you. I don't want to.
I don't want to. Just drop the call. I'm running
any and the car doctor will be back with Norman
right after this. Don't go anywhere. Let's go back to Norman. Norman.
(17:28):
You're still there, sir, Norman, Connecticut. Yes, sir, you had
a second question, Norman, Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just before we move on to
the next thing. Now, I told you what I was
singing about getting for scan tool and stuff. Do you
have one that you maybe would for what? I just
want to just get my feet wet and get going.
What did you ever recommendation I liked?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I like the stuff from Autel, I like the stuff
from Launch. You know, if you can, if you can
afford it, and it's in the price point, snap on
makes a great tool for and again we're back to
what are the parameters? Okay, you know there's no such
thing as getting your feet wet with a scan tool.
I've come to that conclusion. You just got to jump
in and it's it's it's not about it's not about price.
(18:11):
It's you know, George Burns. You remember George Burns. You
used to sing a song I want to be eighteen again.
You know, there's a lot of things in life I
can't get and I'm always looking for a cheap scan tool.
But I'm not because I'm just I'm looking for something
that's gonna make me relevant and keep me current. And
I I just know that a scan tool is a
throwaway item, Norman. A couple of years from now, you're
(18:32):
gonna throw it away and you're gonna buy it again.
And that's just that's just that's the price of technology. Brother.
So all right, second question the.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Hotel and launch when you have a model or no.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Because I like the companies, go go take a you know,
just go take a look at the companies and buy
the biggest screen you can.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Say.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Listen, you and I are in the same age group.
You know, we wanna we want to one of my
software information systems the other day made a big deal
out they're giving me a mobile app so I can
look at information on my phone. I'm like, dude, are
you kidding? I want a biggest I want a twenty
two inch monitor. I don't want a phone screen two
by three. So we got to move on. What's your
second question? Comment in order?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
In a battery test or I was looking at the
top down to the V twenty two hundred with it
checks the battery status too. I was thinking to get
one of those.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
They're all doing you know, you know, they're all doing
that by an algorithm, by a mathematical algorithm, and they're okay.
You know what, if you're doing maintenance in the shop
and you want to just check batteries on a regular basis,
somebody comes in for an oil change and it's it's
twice a year, you're gonna do a mathematical calculation load test.
I'm sorry, mathematical calculation battery test. But the reality is,
(19:48):
if you can go buy an old school carbon pile
load something, Associated still makes them. They're still out there
from Associated test equipment. They're excellent. They're excellent diagnostic tool.
You know, when I want to take a stress test,
I'll listen to what the doctor says, but I'll go
run on the treadmill because I actually want to see
how I do under underload and under duress. And there's
(20:09):
just there's nothing else quite like it. All right, kiddo,
Is there a third partner?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
One more thing real quick? Yeah, I have some equipment
out here in the yard that's been sitting because I
told you I had a foot problem. I've been out
of business for about ten years six anyway, and anyway,
I want to bring this stuff back. And I thought
that you know, I know, you said change everything that's wet,
and I was thinking to bring some of this stuff
(20:35):
back with the you know, full of plugs, fog it
and then you know, turn turn it over with a
wrench behind. I just whoop it over the starter, yep.
And I know one time what I did with a
tractor that had been sitting for years, put the oil
down there. And then what I did up on some horses,
I put a salamander heater not too far away from
the block, you know what I mean, the heat, and
(20:57):
then I'd turn it on and then shut it off,
so i'd may make the metal expand contract, spand and contract.
And then I turned it over with the PTO shaft
and the back on the tractor, and I didn't break
a ring or anything, you know, afraid if it was
because I put a wrench on it first and it
didn't want to move sure, so I didn't want it,
so I did that, and then it looked over and
(21:18):
it was fine. So I was thinking of doing the
same thing. It was all my stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
They bring it back, you know, Norman, it can't hurt.
All it's going to cost you is a little bit
of time, and you know you've got time. Time's the
cheapest thing you have right now. I would say it
makes a lot of sense to me, and I would
tell you to follow that rule of thumb, and you
know the rest of it about oil in the top
end and making sure it's free and easy before you
start it, and try and start it on a separate
fuel source. If it runs, then maybe you want to
(21:43):
go through the fuel system as well to make sure
nothing is rotted or damaged there. I appreciate the conversation, Norman.
I've got to move on. Let's go to phil and
Maine twenty two Toyota and some questions about an intermittent
random misfire. Look at this, Phil, Welcome to the car doctor, sir,
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It was pretty much as I described. I bought this
truck brand new two years ago April, and within a
very short time I begin to feel the smith like
a plug breaking down, or maybe little bit of water
and fuel, something of that nature. So I took it
back to the dealer and it was in there about
a half hour, and a lady at the counter tells
me that that's normal. I've got a questionnaire from Toyota
(22:24):
on the computer here, probably a year ago, and they
wanted to know how I was doing with a new truck.
I described the problem to them as best I could.
I never heard back from them. I just wonder if
you've run into something like this.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
How many miles are on this truck, Phil.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Almost twelve thousand.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, not at that mileage, so so have you. And
I'm not saying it's not happening, and I'm not saying
it's normal. My question is, have you taken a ride
with the technician at the point of failure?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
No? I have, No, They've never offered that to me.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Well, it's time for you to tell them, Hey, I
want to go for a ride with somebody. I don't
think this is normal, you know, is it? Is it
really a misfire? And I'm just I'm spitballing with you, right,
is it? Is it? It feels like a misfire. It
could be it could be torque converter, shutter, it could
be something electrical, because.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I've read something to the effect that some of these
problems are toyotas or transmission related to something. I've tried
down shifting it when it's doing this, it doesn't make
any difference. It's still missing. It's an automatic, but drop
it back and it doesn't help anything.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You know, it would seem that part of the diagnosis
here would be to look at cylinder misfires, to look
at mode six, which is the behind the scenes machine
language data that the vehicle computer will generate. Is it
actually detecting a fault code or is it a driving
characteristic of the vehicle twelve thousand miles. I wouldn't expect
anything to be wrong with it, but you know, the
(23:52):
first step is if if you're experiencing it and they're
telling you it's normal, can they show you another twenty
two Tacoma. They have another one lying around that they
can take you for a ride and say, yeah, look
this one does it too good question?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I think it just brushed me off, right.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's what it sounds like to me. Because a real misfire,
a shutter, a shake, a hesitation out of the vehicle,
should generate more than just one guy named Philip and
up in Maine registering a complaint. It seems that there
would be hundreds of thousands of these as having a
potential problem. It seems like I would have run into it.
I haven't. Those are usually one of the very best
(24:29):
running vehicles out there, to be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
They've had a scan tool run onto something that might
have brought up a code or anything.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, they might have, but you know I can show you.
Oh listen, the vehicle I talked about in the open
did not set a misfire code. But if you looked
at it on scan tool, it looked like it was misfiring.
But by virtue, by virtue of me eliminating the other factors,
which was part of that conversation, I knew it wasn't
a misfire. I knew it was something else, So somebody's
(24:58):
got to really sit down and want to diagnos and
the answer you're probably going to get well, if it
doesn't set a code, we can't diagnose it, which is nonsense.
It just means they don't want to. So you've got
to find somebody that can diagnose and really lay it
on the line. But first step, First show me another
twenty two Tacoma that runs the same and that customer
is not complaining, right yep?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
So all right, sir, okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You're very welcome. You'll be well. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero. Look at this, I
got out right on time, Tom, aren't you proud of me?
I'll be back right after this. I'm running any in
the car Doctor. The phone number is eight five to
five five six zero nine nine zero zero, the card
Doctor's twenty four to seven hot line, and Larry from
Wisconsin is next up. Larry. Welcome to the Car.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Doctor, sir Sllo, thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Welcome. What's going on?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I got this twenty fifteen Chevy Silverado and like take off,
put it in drives, start going and it'll come up
dash grade, brake activated, will come on if I take
my foot off the gas a little bit, just kind
of slow down, that'll come on and then it'll shift down.
(26:12):
And then when I'm not even going down the hill,
it's on a flat, and then it'll go off that
grade brake activator will go off and it won't come
back on. But when I'm driving down the road going
forty to fifty miles an hour, the truck will shift down,
you know, so the RPMs go up and it'll shift
down again. If I hit the gas, then it'll shift
(26:33):
up and go, you know, right back where I need
to be.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So the trans has the trans has an erratic shifting issue.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Correct, But then here's the other question. And then so
somebody told me, well, I put it in manual, put
it all the way down to manual, and shift it manually,
and the transmission runs just fine. I can drive it around.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Okay, right because shift because perceived value is it's it's
sensing that it's under a load. Let me ask this question,
does it do it all the time or is it okay?
When you first start out cold, and then it gets
worse as the hotter it gets.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I think it's worse as hotter it gets.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Okay, what color is the gas cap? Serious question?
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Shoot?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yellow or black? It's it's it's it's not an it's
not an e eighty five vehicle.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Okay, so it's probably a black gas cap. It's just
it's just that's that's how I remember it. So if
this is okay, if this is, if this is worse
the hotter it gets, don't you have on your on
your dash information centered can't you bring up trans temperature
as one of the PIDs as one of the data displays?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I think I can.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Okay, go for a ride with the truck. Watch it.
You know what is it? It's a fifteen hundred right, yep, okay,
with no load, no trailer, no load in the bed. Right,
what's your trans temperature? Where does it go that? If
that trans temp goes above two hundred degrees? I bet
(28:10):
you've got a restricted fancy word here, Larry, thermal bypass
valve on the trans cooler, all right, I bet it's
sticking shut. And it's it's it's seeing the raising temperature,
the lack of fluid. The converter's coming on. It's starting
to downshift. It's starting to act radically now and if
(28:33):
that's the case, you may find that solving that solves
the problem. But if you don't, then it goes on.
You may end up having to put a trans in it.
I'm trying to avoid that just just as a possible
just as a possibility of direction. You know, typically typically
lower temperature, we typically see one hundred and forty one
hundred and sixty degrees of trans cooler. If we see
(28:55):
two hundred degrees and more, that that trans is working
way too hot. It's possible that has a stuck bypass valve,
which would not be uncommon on that generation Silverado. And
it's I almost want to say, I can't remember if
it applied to the fifteens or not, but there was
sort of a campaign and a quiet recall, not a
(29:16):
manufacturer's recall, but if you took it into the deal
of the dealer was like, oh yeah, you need a
thermal bypass valve, and they were changing them no charge,
or they were doing it at a lower cost, trying
to make customer satisfaction a priority if you follow what
I'm saying. So you know, but that's that's where I
think I would go with that, That's where I would
start for sure does.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
That one throw a code then, because they I've ad
it on it. Nope, local mechanic here, and it would
it's not throwing a code of any sort in all.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Listen, I'm going to sell a t shirt one of
these days. You know what it's going to say on it.
No code, No live by the code, die by the code.
I don't I don't care. I don't care if it's
got a code or not. I want to know what
the symptoms and the conditions are. Always always look for that.
The code just tells you that you're right, right, you know,
when you get a vehicle, when you get a vehicle
(30:03):
that's misfiring and you can accurately diagnose it and go, yeah,
it's a misfire on cylinder two, and then it sets
a P zero three zero two. You go, well, I
guess I was right. The computer agrees with me, you know.
But I'm not counting on the truck to tell me everything.
I've got to look at it all, all right.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Kiddo, Right, yep, Well, thanks a lot, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Good luck. Let me know what happens A five five, five,
six zero nine nine zero zero running any in the car?
Doctor flying through the hour. I'll be back right after this.
So I thought just for fun, because I'm always thinking,
you know, how can I make this show more interesting?
Funner's funner a word I think, so more funner. I
(30:41):
went to chat GPT this week and I asked it
a couple of questions, and I think we're going to
try this for a while and see what it works out,
I said, I asked it, I said, across the country,
what are drivers talking about? What does it you guys
want to know? So, according to chat GPT, artificial intelligence.
And I always say artificial intelligence sometimes is better than
real intelligence, especially when there's absence of it across the country.
(31:02):
You guys are asking, is now the time to hold
onto your car or cut your losses before teriff tack
on the estimated four to ten thousand dollars per vehicle
even more for evs. It says analysts estimate that there
will be twenty five percent import teriffs which will raise
car prices by four to ten thousand dollars at some
point this year, and up to twelve thousand dollars for evs.
(31:23):
And that comes to us out of Business Insider and
Financial Times staggering number and I agree with that, and
I think some of the things you have to think
about is all right, what's the total overall costs? Though too,
because there was also a conversation where I asked it.
I said, you know, what are people concerned about when
buying a new car, and it said cost. It seems
(31:45):
that the average price of a new vehicle now just
a grocery getter back and forth to work, a couple
of you know, creature comforts, air conditioning, power steering, which
is all standard stuff now anyway, right, and the safety
features forty eight eight dollars fifty g's and then people
are like everyday people like you and I were all
(32:07):
concerned about it, right, the cost of service plans and
service contracts and maintaining the vehicle and how long will
it last. It's all coming to roost. Average new car price,
it says, in June of this year, was forty eight,
six hundred and ninety nine dollars, and tariffs will push
them higher, forcing buyers to consider repair over replacement, which
(32:29):
I agree. I think that you are considering repair over replacement,
but I think you've got to commit that from the
right perspective. First of all, I think you've got to
have the right mechanic, and you've got to have a
good one, not a bad one, which obviously that's a criteria,
but you've also got to have some trust and faith
in them and understand that. And I've got a lot
of stories I could do that if this hour wasn't
(32:50):
And then where we talk about, well I put a transmission,
and if the transmission was six grand, g if he
needs an engine, that's eleven grand. That's seventeen thousand dollars
into a car, but it's fifty for a new one.
You know, does that seventeen? Call it twenty with odds
and ends? What does that get you? You guys are
thinking about a lot, which is why you need to
be here listening to me every weekend. A five, five, five,
(33:10):
six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running ady in
the car. Doctor. It's been a pleasure till the next time.
Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. Really, see you
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners Alife. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join The Conversation Live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow
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and be sure to subscribe to The Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to tell you why i oder repair is
so expensive. I think it's a good place to story.
You guys love the stories from the shop, real stiff
from the days. Well here's a real one and it
happened to this week. I have to tell you the
story this way. I'm going to start here, so it's
a little bit of a layered thing. So bear with me.
One of my information systems, Identifis, is going up thirty
(01:11):
five dollars next month. You know now it'll be well
over two hundred dollars for this identification subscription. That that's good.
It does provide some timely information. It is I always
say it's Google on steroids. It gives me verified repairs
and helps sometimes point you in a direction when you're
up against it and you're trying to find a direction.
(01:34):
It will help dig through the pattern failures and put
it all together in one paragraph. It's not perfect, but
it's a direction. It's another informational source. But there's a
cost that comes with it. So you always look at
cost as part of being in business, like anyplace else. Right,
the eggs cost more for the diner, they raise their price.
(01:55):
The beef costs more for the burger place, they raise
their price. This isn't about auto repair raising their price.
Auto repair is deemed expensive anyway, And neither one of
those is really pertinent to this conversation, except everything has value.
Everything that you do in a repair shop you really
have to consider. There's a value to that. There's a
(02:16):
value to what your mechanic is trying to do if
they're trying to do it right, and they're not a
bad mechanic. And the Lord knows there are a bunch
of bad mechanics out there. So one of my favorite
guys in the whole world, my trans builder. I love
him the death great guy. He got himself in a box.
One of the local body shops brought him a twenty
(02:39):
sixteen twenty fifteen gmc akadia recently that remember I told
you this is layered. I started with identifics, remember that
for the second that brought him a gmc acadia that
had a bucking and a shuddering sensation to it. Now,
the body shop tried to diagnose it themselves. And I
know the body shop. They tend not to want to
(03:00):
pay for diagnosis. They tend not to want to diagnose things.
They tend to do things cock eyed, in my opinion,
and it's one of the reasons we don't do business.
It's just easier to you know, fences make the best neighbors,
as they say. And they brought him this transmission or
this vehicle saying that they had diagnosed it themselves. They
(03:22):
put a torque converter in it for the transmission, thinking
that it was a bad torqu converter on lockup, but
that didn't repair it. Now there was no real diagnosis
done is the way it was explained to me. And
that's the part that floors me. See, this is where
order repair gets expensive. Right, had we start this? Why
is auto repair so expensive? They did a repair based
(03:44):
on it felt like this. I never heard anything about.
We pulled out a scan tool, we pulled out a scope,
we did some diagnostics, we looked at bolted nothing just
it must be a converter because it feels like a converter.
Or maybe they did because if you looked at the
pattern failure and I a fix, they would point you
towards a converter. So I, you know, I work with
(04:07):
my trans guy. Listen, I have a great relationship with him.
We can we can walk in and if I were
to drop off something my own vehicle, say hey, rebuild
this for me, they'll rebuild it. And you know it's
a it's a it's an equal great quality exchange of
energy between the two of us. So now he's in
the now he's in the box. He's got this vehicle
that they've already done a transmission or done transmission work too,
(04:29):
which and I wanted to point this out. To put
a converter, a torque converter in a twenty fifteen, twenty
sixteen a Kadi Chevy Traverse, that generation of GM product
is no simple task. This isn't three hours and it's done.
The last time I saw a quote from the dealer
to put a trans in that generation of traverse, a
transmission was eleven grand, and I believe the trans is
(04:51):
around sixty five hundred and seven grand. The risk being
labored because you take everything out, the trans and the
drive train, it comes out as an assembly on a bench,
a portable power bench they call it, and it lowers
down and then you split it. And so this is
a lot of work. But somehow the body shop struggled
through it. They had their night mechanic do it, as
(05:11):
I understand it, and he's a very old school kind
of mechanic, and he would, you know, see to the pants,
sweat of his brow, muscle his way through it, and
he got this torque converter swapped out. Yeah, and it
didn't do anything because the car still had the same problem.
Thirty three thirty four miles an hour, that car still
(05:33):
had that shutter shake, just like a misfire, just like
a bad torque converter. It felt just like that. So
my trans guy, Tom, we're gonna call him. Tom, gets
this transmission or this car with an alleged bad transmission
that the body shop at least wants him to look
(05:55):
at do a diagnosis. Tom looks at it. And one
of the things I love about Tom is, you know what,
He's one of the most honest mechanics I've ever met.
He knows when he's in over his head. Look, I
know when I'm in over my head and I gotta
go get more information. Tom knows when he's in over
his head and he's got to go get more information.
Turns out, on this particular day, I was the more information.
(06:16):
He came over. He said, listen, do you have five minutes?
I didn't, but I always, you know, I always respond
to that cry for help. I would have been good
at a carnival, you know, when they yell hey, Rube
and everybody comes running because the tent's going to fall down.
I would have been great at that. So you know,
Tom comes over, he yells hey, Rube, and off we go.
Scan tool in hand, and I'm thinking about this and
(06:37):
I look at it on a scan tool, and yes,
scan tool is reporting misfires, but they're odd in the
way that it's being reported. Now, Fortunately for Tom and
for the body shop and for the vehicle owner. I
just completed training with Automotive Training Group Misfire and cylinder
(06:58):
power contribution Diagnosed, and this is a whole new way
of looking at misfires. It's a very different ideology. Instead
of you know, living by the code, dying by the code,
living by symptoms, we're looking for specific values biometric pressure, manifold, vacuum,
throttle angle, volumetric efficiency. We're looking at heart rate, blood pressure,
(07:19):
all the critical measurements that you go through to determine
is the engine in reasonable mechanical condition? Yes, okay, your
problem is somewhere else. I haven't got it mastered yet.
I'm not claiming I do. It's a very different way
to look at things, and I'm just learning the ins
and the outs. But here was a chance to test.
(07:42):
The two nights I spent in class and the subsequent
seven days I spent after reading the book every night
and mapping out some theories and possibilities and patterns and
good time to learn. Right, here's that moment. This car
passed every test under the sun. There was no mis
fire coming out of this car. And I said that
with confidence to Tom. I said, this is not a misfire.
(08:04):
This is something else. And when I looked at it
all the time that we're driving the car, even when
it first came over the ABS and the traction control
lighter on HM. So I go in and there's no
fault codes and you know, lived by the code, died
by the code. I don't care the lights on. It's
(08:25):
trying to tell me something. I go look at data
display and data stream for the ABS system, for the
antalock brakes, and I look at the four wheel speed sensor.
It's a great place to start, just in case you're wondering.
And all four report correct mileage except the right rear
wheel speed sensor looks fuzzy. And I'm using a scan tool,
(08:47):
so you can't put too much trust in your interpretation.
It just looks fuzzy. It's jagged. It's not a smooth,
clean signal if we're going to trust the scan tool.
And the reason we don't trust the scan tool is
because it's not an exact one for one pixel data
exchange of information. It's interpreted, it's buffered, we're going through
the memory of the scan tool. There's one hundred of
(09:09):
the reasons why we always say get out the labscope.
But this pattern from the right rear wheel speed sensor
was convoluted enough that I knew something was up. Now
I'm doing Tom a favor, and I'm happy to do
it for him, and I'm not gonna do more than that.
I just handed him back the car and I said
(09:30):
I'd start with fixing the right rear wheel speed sensor circuit.
I don't know that it's a sensor. I don't know
if it's a wheelbaring. I don't know what it is.
But there's something wrong with that right rear wheel speed
circuit that it's aggravating the car to turn on the
abs and traction control lights. And perhaps perhaps you're gonna
fix the car because I could find nothing else wrong.
(09:52):
Everything else, everything else was spot on the money. Mode
six data freees frame, the time of occurrence, mass airflow sensor,
grahams perc second manifold, vacuum, barometric pressure. All of it
was right on the money. I gave him back the car. Now,
keep in mind the body shop put it, took trans
in and out. Okay, they were on the verge of
(10:15):
doing coils and spark plugs when they handed it to Tom.
They also, by the way, took the trans in and
out on one hundred and twenty thousand mile eight year
old vehicle and only put a torquenverter in and on
a trans It's got the durability of a potato chip
in the Atlantic Ocean. Just not a real strong prospect
for survivability. And now they've got this. Maybe it's a
(10:35):
wheel bearing. We know it needs a wheel bearing, let's
start there. Or whatever it is. Turned out it was
a wheel bearing. I'm giving it away. But they ended
up putting a wheel bearing in it because the metallic
tone ring was beat up in half missing, and Tom
discovered that when he went back to his shop put
it up in the air and he started probing around.
He called me Thursday, Hey, Ron, I just want to
(10:55):
let you know the car's fixed. The wheel bearing. The
problem with the right rear fixed problem. You were right, see,
I think what was going on was I think because
that car gets vehicle speed input information off the anti
lock brakes. That it saw an erratic signal out of
the right rear, and it treated the car like it
(11:17):
was going into fuel cut. Fuel cut is something we
haven't talked about in probably every bit of thirty thirty
five years. Fuel cut is a condition in vehicles where
you look at the speed rating of the tires T HV.
T is good for one hundred and twelve miles an hour.
H is good for one hundred and twenty three miles
an hour. V is good for one hundred and forty
(11:37):
six miles an hour. For a twenty minute extended rod test,
et cetera. The government mandated in the eighties that the
vehicles exceeded their tire speed rated miles per hour, the
manufacturer would throw that vehicle into fuel cuts, shut off
the injectors, and just shut it down so the vehicle
can't go any faster. This car seemed like it was
(11:58):
going into fuel cut. When I look at the fuel trim,
I saw it. When I looked at a couple of
other things, I saw it, and I said, this car
is in fuel cut. But I'm not sure why, but
let's fix the wheel speed sensor. Maybe it's affecting vehicle speed.
So I fixed the car. I didn't get paid, Tom
didn't get paid, the body shop got paid. And my
(12:19):
point becomes they probably spent upwards of I don't know,
ten eleven thousand dollars for what should have been a
seven hundred dollars repair because of improper diagnosis. Why is
auto repair so expensive? It's not. There's just a bunch
of bad actors in it that aren't doing the job right.
Eight five five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
(12:40):
I'm fired up and ready to go. Come on back,
let's talk. I'm ronnin Eny in the Car Doctor as
a matter of fact, and then I'll drop the subject
for the moment. Automotive Training Group is bringing that Misfire
Cylinder Contribution class back to New Jersey in September in
Edison on Wednesday, Thursday nights. I think it is the
(13:01):
third and the fourth. I'm going to be there. I'm
going to take the class again because there's never an
excuse for not taking and gathering more information. It was
that good of a class. Let's let's go to Norman
and open the garage doors. Norman. Welcome to the Car Doctor, sir.
How can I help?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yes? Thank you, Ron, I enjoy your show. Every week,
you know, thank you bringing forth these scenarios. And I've
done a lot of mechanic work in my time. I'm
a little older than you are. They told me we're
sixty eight. I'm seventy five.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Now, come on, nobody's older than me. But I get it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
No, right, we're not ready for the geriatric ward yet,
not yet anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
The nuthouse maybe, but definitely not the geriatric ward. So yeah,
what's going on?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
All right? Well, well, I just first of all, I'm
seeing about buying a scan tool. It's not that involved,
but one I saw just to you know, get my
feet wet with some of the newer stuff. Well, the
top Don have you ever heard of there?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I've heard of top Don. Yeah, I've heard of top Don.
I've never played with one. I've heard good stories about them,
good results. I would have no problem with suggesting somebody
go look at one. Whenever I look at a scan tool,
I always look at you know, how fast is the tool,
what's the ability of the tool to arrange the information.
(14:20):
Where a scan tool falls down is get into the
scenario you're looking to fuel trim problem. Can I go
into can I go in to vehicle your make model
and display short term, long term oxygen sensors, engine RPM,
calculated load. You know specific data PIDs that I want
(14:43):
to see easily? Can I Can I retain it? Can
I save it as a favorite?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
This whenever I look at fuel trim, I want this
menu to come up. I want this option. I want
to look at this every time. Can I do that?
How easy is it to move data around? Can I
just bag and drop? Can I take the oxygen sensor
from the top and drag it to the bottom of
the list or do I have to go in and
build the list in some sort of So always I
always look at data management as one of the things.
(15:12):
I also look at how easy is it for me
to print or store the data so I can go
in and when I'm looking at a car with known
good If I'm doing a health check and I've got
a perfectly good twenty twenty three Lexus GX four sixty,
I want to see what is Lexus called for? How
do they allow mass airflow sensor Graham's per second at idle?
(15:33):
You know, where's fuel trim, go under load? What's calculated load?
That kind of thing? How easy can I gather heart rate?
Blood pressure and data and store it to compare to
the next problem vehicle of that generation. So that's that's
important to me, all right. The rest is fluff, you
know after that by directional control is great, but it's
(15:57):
going to be limited by the dollars I'm going to spend.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah. And then of course, you know you have you
have a real good understanding of the fundamentals of an
engine and stuff like that. You have to interject old
time sery too, sure, absolutely, because it makes sense. And
and I was always one for diagnosing and everything else.
And you know, like the battery with a hydrometer and
this and that, and and and and and I usually
(16:23):
would come to a favorable results where you know, I
would use the theory of old school and and and
and you know I'd figure stuff out. Yep. But you know,
with a scan tool, I mean it does, you know,
maybe help point you in the right direction. But then
you still have to use your acclimated native intelligence to
uh accompany me a companient the findings of a scan.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I you know, Norman, I always say a scan tool
gathers information. You still got to use that gray matter
between your ears that God gave you and that's really
that's really the bottom line. So I would look at
the top down. I would you know what sort of
bi directional control? What sort of software updates? Let me
(17:07):
ask you this, Norman, real quick. Do you have a
second question? I hear the music. I'll answer it after
we take the pause. All right, Sit tight, don't go,
don't go anywhere, Norman. Let me pull over and take
this pause so I don't rush you. I don't want to.
I don't want to. Just drop the call. I'm running
any and the car doctor will be back with Norman
right after this. Don't go anywhere. Let's go back to Norman. Norman.
(17:28):
You're still there, sir, Norman, Connecticut. Yes, sir, you had
a second question, Norman, Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just before we move on to
the next thing. Now, I told you what I was
singing about getting for scan tool and stuff. Do you
have one that you maybe would for what? I just
want to just get my feet wet and get going.
What did you ever recommendation I liked?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I like the stuff from Autel, I like the stuff
from Launch. You know, if you can, if you can
afford it, and it's in the price point, snap on
makes a great tool for and again we're back to
what are the parameters? Okay, you know there's no such
thing as getting your feet wet with a scan tool.
I've come to that conclusion. You just got to jump
in and it's it's it's not about it's not about price.
(18:11):
It's you know, George Burns. You remember George Burns. You
used to sing a song I want to be eighteen again.
You know, there's a lot of things in life I
can't get and I'm always looking for a cheap scan tool.
But I'm not because I'm just I'm looking for something
that's gonna make me relevant and keep me current. And
I I just know that a scan tool is a
throwaway item, Norman. A couple of years from now, you're
(18:32):
gonna throw it away and you're gonna buy it again.
And that's just that's just that's the price of technology. Brother.
So all right, second question the.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Hotel and launch when you have a model or no.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Because I like the companies, go go take a you know,
just go take a look at the companies and buy
the biggest screen you can.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Say.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Listen, you and I are in the same age group.
You know, we wanna we want to one of my
software information systems the other day made a big deal
out they're giving me a mobile app so I can
look at information on my phone. I'm like, dude, are
you kidding? I want a biggest I want a twenty
two inch monitor. I don't want a phone screen two
by three. So we got to move on. What's your
second question? Comment in order?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
In a battery test or I was looking at the
top down to the V twenty two hundred with it
checks the battery status too. I was thinking to get
one of those.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
They're all doing you know, you know, they're all doing
that by an algorithm, by a mathematical algorithm, and they're okay.
You know what, if you're doing maintenance in the shop
and you want to just check batteries on a regular basis,
somebody comes in for an oil change and it's it's
twice a year, you're gonna do a mathematical calculation load test.
I'm sorry, mathematical calculation battery test. But the reality is,
(19:48):
if you can go buy an old school carbon pile
load something, Associated still makes them. They're still out there
from Associated test equipment. They're excellent. They're excellent diagnostic tool.
You know, when I want to take a stress test,
I'll listen to what the doctor says, but I'll go
run on the treadmill because I actually want to see
how I do under underload and under duress. And there's
(20:09):
just there's nothing else quite like it. All right, kiddo,
Is there a third partner?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
One more thing real quick? Yeah, I have some equipment
out here in the yard that's been sitting because I
told you I had a foot problem. I've been out
of business for about ten years six anyway, and anyway,
I want to bring this stuff back. And I thought
that you know, I know, you said change everything that's wet,
and I was thinking to bring some of this stuff
(20:35):
back with the you know, full of plugs, fog it
and then you know, turn turn it over with a
wrench behind. I just whoop it over the starter, yep.
And I know one time what I did with a
tractor that had been sitting for years, put the oil
down there. And then what I did up on some horses,
I put a salamander heater not too far away from
the block, you know what I mean, the heat, and
(20:57):
then I'd turn it on and then shut it off,
so i'd may make the metal expand contract, spand and contract.
And then I turned it over with the PTO shaft
and the back on the tractor, and I didn't break
a ring or anything, you know, afraid if it was
because I put a wrench on it first and it
didn't want to move sure, so I didn't want it,
so I did that, and then it looked over and
(21:18):
it was fine. So I was thinking of doing the
same thing. It was all my stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
They bring it back, you know, Norman, it can't hurt.
All it's going to cost you is a little bit
of time, and you know you've got time. Time's the
cheapest thing you have right now. I would say it
makes a lot of sense to me, and I would
tell you to follow that rule of thumb, and you
know the rest of it about oil in the top
end and making sure it's free and easy before you
start it, and try and start it on a separate
fuel source. If it runs, then maybe you want to
(21:43):
go through the fuel system as well to make sure
nothing is rotted or damaged there. I appreciate the conversation, Norman.
I've got to move on. Let's go to phil and
Maine twenty two Toyota and some questions about an intermittent
random misfire. Look at this, Phil, Welcome to the car doctor, sir,
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It was pretty much as I described. I bought this
truck brand new two years ago April, and within a
very short time I begin to feel the smith like
a plug breaking down, or maybe little bit of water
and fuel, something of that nature. So I took it
back to the dealer and it was in there about
a half hour, and a lady at the counter tells
me that that's normal. I've got a questionnaire from Toyota
(22:24):
on the computer here, probably a year ago, and they
wanted to know how I was doing with a new truck.
I described the problem to them as best I could.
I never heard back from them. I just wonder if
you've run into something like this.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
How many miles are on this truck, Phil.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Almost twelve thousand.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, not at that mileage, so so have you. And
I'm not saying it's not happening, and I'm not saying
it's normal. My question is, have you taken a ride
with the technician at the point of failure?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
No? I have, No, They've never offered that to me.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Well, it's time for you to tell them, Hey, I
want to go for a ride with somebody. I don't
think this is normal, you know, is it? Is it
really a misfire? And I'm just I'm spitballing with you, right,
is it? Is it? It feels like a misfire. It
could be it could be torque converter, shutter, it could
be something electrical, because.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I've read something to the effect that some of these
problems are toyotas or transmission related to something. I've tried
down shifting it when it's doing this, it doesn't make
any difference. It's still missing. It's an automatic, but drop
it back and it doesn't help anything.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You know, it would seem that part of the diagnosis
here would be to look at cylinder misfires, to look
at mode six, which is the behind the scenes machine
language data that the vehicle computer will generate. Is it
actually detecting a fault code or is it a driving
characteristic of the vehicle twelve thousand miles. I wouldn't expect
anything to be wrong with it, but you know, the
(23:52):
first step is if if you're experiencing it and they're
telling you it's normal, can they show you another twenty
two Tacoma. They have another one lying around that they
can take you for a ride and say, yeah, look
this one does it too good question?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I think it just brushed me off, right.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's what it sounds like to me. Because a real misfire,
a shutter, a shake, a hesitation out of the vehicle,
should generate more than just one guy named Philip and
up in Maine registering a complaint. It seems that there
would be hundreds of thousands of these as having a
potential problem. It seems like I would have run into it.
I haven't. Those are usually one of the very best
(24:29):
running vehicles out there, to be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
They've had a scan tool run onto something that might
have brought up a code or anything.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, they might have, but you know I can show you.
Oh listen, the vehicle I talked about in the open
did not set a misfire code. But if you looked
at it on scan tool, it looked like it was misfiring.
But by virtue, by virtue of me eliminating the other factors,
which was part of that conversation, I knew it wasn't
a misfire. I knew it was something else, So somebody's
(24:58):
got to really sit down and want to diagnos and
the answer you're probably going to get well, if it
doesn't set a code, we can't diagnose it, which is nonsense.
It just means they don't want to. So you've got
to find somebody that can diagnose and really lay it
on the line. But first step, First show me another
twenty two Tacoma that runs the same and that customer
is not complaining, right yep?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
So all right, sir, okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You're very welcome. You'll be well. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero. Look at this, I
got out right on time, Tom, aren't you proud of me?
I'll be back right after this. I'm running any in
the car Doctor. The phone number is eight five to
five five six zero nine nine zero zero, the card
Doctor's twenty four to seven hot line, and Larry from
Wisconsin is next up. Larry. Welcome to the Car.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Doctor, sir Sllo, thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Welcome. What's going on?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I got this twenty fifteen Chevy Silverado and like take off,
put it in drives, start going and it'll come up
dash grade, brake activated, will come on if I take
my foot off the gas a little bit, just kind
of slow down, that'll come on and then it'll shift down.
(26:12):
And then when I'm not even going down the hill,
it's on a flat, and then it'll go off that
grade brake activator will go off and it won't come
back on. But when I'm driving down the road going
forty to fifty miles an hour, the truck will shift down,
you know, so the RPMs go up and it'll shift
down again. If I hit the gas, then it'll shift
(26:33):
up and go, you know, right back where I need
to be.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So the trans has the trans has an erratic shifting issue.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Correct, But then here's the other question. And then so
somebody told me, well, I put it in manual, put
it all the way down to manual, and shift it manually,
and the transmission runs just fine. I can drive it around.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Okay, right because shift because perceived value is it's it's
sensing that it's under a load. Let me ask this question,
does it do it all the time or is it okay?
When you first start out cold, and then it gets
worse as the hotter it gets.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I think it's worse as hotter it gets.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Okay, what color is the gas cap? Serious question?
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Shoot?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yellow or black? It's it's it's it's not an it's
not an e eighty five vehicle.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Okay, so it's probably a black gas cap. It's just
it's just that's that's how I remember it. So if
this is okay, if this is, if this is worse
the hotter it gets, don't you have on your on
your dash information centered can't you bring up trans temperature
as one of the PIDs as one of the data displays?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I think I can.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Okay, go for a ride with the truck. Watch it.
You know what is it? It's a fifteen hundred right, yep, okay,
with no load, no trailer, no load in the bed. Right,
what's your trans temperature? Where does it go that? If
that trans temp goes above two hundred degrees? I bet
(28:10):
you've got a restricted fancy word here, Larry, thermal bypass
valve on the trans cooler, all right, I bet it's
sticking shut. And it's it's it's seeing the raising temperature,
the lack of fluid. The converter's coming on. It's starting
to downshift. It's starting to act radically now and if
(28:33):
that's the case, you may find that solving that solves
the problem. But if you don't, then it goes on.
You may end up having to put a trans in it.
I'm trying to avoid that just just as a possible
just as a possibility of direction. You know, typically typically
lower temperature, we typically see one hundred and forty one
hundred and sixty degrees of trans cooler. If we see
(28:55):
two hundred degrees and more, that that trans is working
way too hot. It's possible that has a stuck bypass valve,
which would not be uncommon on that generation Silverado. And
it's I almost want to say, I can't remember if
it applied to the fifteens or not, but there was
sort of a campaign and a quiet recall, not a
(29:16):
manufacturer's recall, but if you took it into the deal
of the dealer was like, oh yeah, you need a
thermal bypass valve, and they were changing them no charge,
or they were doing it at a lower cost, trying
to make customer satisfaction a priority if you follow what
I'm saying. So you know, but that's that's where I
think I would go with that, That's where I would
start for sure does.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
That one throw a code then, because they I've ad
it on it. Nope, local mechanic here, and it would
it's not throwing a code of any sort in all.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Listen, I'm going to sell a t shirt one of
these days. You know what it's going to say on it.
No code, No live by the code, die by the code.
I don't I don't care. I don't care if it's
got a code or not. I want to know what
the symptoms and the conditions are. Always always look for that.
The code just tells you that you're right, right, you know,
when you get a vehicle, when you get a vehicle
(30:03):
that's misfiring and you can accurately diagnose it and go, yeah,
it's a misfire on cylinder two, and then it sets
a P zero three zero two. You go, well, I
guess I was right. The computer agrees with me, you know.
But I'm not counting on the truck to tell me everything.
I've got to look at it all, all right.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Kiddo, Right, yep, Well, thanks a lot, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Good luck. Let me know what happens A five five, five,
six zero nine nine zero zero running any in the car?
Doctor flying through the hour. I'll be back right after this.
So I thought just for fun, because I'm always thinking,
you know, how can I make this show more interesting?
Funner's funner a word I think, so more funner. I
(30:41):
went to chat GPT this week and I asked it
a couple of questions, and I think we're going to
try this for a while and see what it works out,
I said, I asked it, I said, across the country,
what are drivers talking about? What does it you guys
want to know? So, according to chat GPT, artificial intelligence.
And I always say artificial intelligence sometimes is better than
real intelligence, especially when there's absence of it across the country.
(31:02):
You guys are asking, is now the time to hold
onto your car or cut your losses before teriff tack
on the estimated four to ten thousand dollars per vehicle
even more for evs. It says analysts estimate that there
will be twenty five percent import teriffs which will raise
car prices by four to ten thousand dollars at some
point this year, and up to twelve thousand dollars for evs.
(31:23):
And that comes to us out of Business Insider and
Financial Times staggering number and I agree with that, and
I think some of the things you have to think
about is all right, what's the total overall costs? Though too,
because there was also a conversation where I asked it.
I said, you know, what are people concerned about when
buying a new car, and it said cost. It seems
(31:45):
that the average price of a new vehicle now just
a grocery getter back and forth to work, a couple
of you know, creature comforts, air conditioning, power steering, which
is all standard stuff now anyway, right, and the safety
features forty eight eight dollars fifty g's and then people
are like everyday people like you and I were all
(32:07):
concerned about it, right, the cost of service plans and
service contracts and maintaining the vehicle and how long will
it last. It's all coming to roost. Average new car price,
it says, in June of this year, was forty eight,
six hundred and ninety nine dollars, and tariffs will push
them higher, forcing buyers to consider repair over replacement, which
(32:29):
I agree. I think that you are considering repair over replacement,
but I think you've got to commit that from the
right perspective. First of all, I think you've got to
have the right mechanic, and you've got to have a
good one, not a bad one, which obviously that's a criteria,
but you've also got to have some trust and faith
in them and understand that. And I've got a lot
of stories I could do that if this hour wasn't
(32:50):
And then where we talk about, well I put a transmission,
and if the transmission was six grand, g if he
needs an engine, that's eleven grand. That's seventeen thousand dollars
into a car, but it's fifty for a new one.
You know, does that seventeen? Call it twenty with odds
and ends? What does that get you? You guys are
thinking about a lot, which is why you need to
be here listening to me every weekend. A five, five, five,
(33:10):
six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running ady in
the car. Doctor. It's been a pleasure till the next time.
Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. Really, see you
Host
Ron Ananian
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