From Louisiana highways to Texas garages to Florida driveways—this hour of The Car Doctor covers it all. John from Louisiana reports a blown head gasket on his 2018 Honda Accord 2.0 turbo, part of a growing issue among Honda owners. Ron explains why turbo engines are failing and how to push Honda for support when repairs run into the thousands. An email from Daniel reveals a shop mistake that left his car misfiring after a routine service, highlighting why road tests and customer care are critical. Then Tyler in Texas struggles with a Nissan Frontier throwing P0335 crankshaft sensor codes after an engine rebuild—Ron points to factory bulletins and lab scope diagnostics as the way forward. The hour wraps with Tom in Florida debating Mobil 1 vs. Amsoil oil.
Keywords: Honda Accord head gasket failure, Nissan Frontier P0335, auto repair shop mistakes, lab scope diagnostics, Amsoil vs Mobil 1, Car Doctor podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow
dot com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your engines. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you and welcome. Yeah, let's we're looking forward to
this in another hour of great Order repair Radio. I'm
happy to be here for all of you. Let me
just point out too, real quick company by the name
of Powerpro. I think a lot of us are familiar
with them. They've come out with a new meter, their
DM three hundred, great approach to solve a very old
hard problem looking for vehicle electrical draws. The DM three
(01:11):
hundred gives us the ability to do milli vault draw
testing across fuses, and it does the calculations inside. You know,
it used to be that we would measure milli vaults
across a fuse, do a look up on a chart,
and then decide is that a correct milli vault number
(01:32):
or not. The DM three hundred does it for you,
and it makes the conversion right on the display, and
it tells you what the ampage draw is. It makes
that conversion from milli vaults to ampage and so on.
So we're gonna be road testing that in the coming week.
So I just wanted to point that out and we're
looking forward to doing that. We'll get that up on
(01:52):
our YouTube channel. We'll talk about it up here. And
I bet you I can wrangle Brandon to get me
someone to interview my contact guy over there a power probe.
But right now, let's go over and talk to Let's
go to John on Louisiana, New Iberia, Louisiana, the home
of Tabasco saus John. Yes, yeah, it is okay, what's
(02:14):
going on? With you in your twenty eighteen Honda Accord.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I have a twenty eighteen Honda Accord two point zero
that I love, love driving it, and I started having
some problems with needing to add coolant to it. Took
it to my mechanic. He checked it, did a pressure check,
replaced my radiator cap, continued and I was still losing
(02:42):
coolant and they started throwing codes. Went back to my
mechanic and tested it and said, I have a blown
head gasket between cylinder one and two.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And as I started looking into that and getting on
some Honda forums, I found out that this is quite
the issue.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yep, absolutely absolutely. It's become a very common phenomenon, and
it's funny how the industry is just accepting it. I
know there's a couple of conversations from Honda about it,
but there's no recall. And the only answer I've got
is because every everybody always wants to know is there
a recall, they just either haven't hit the numbers yet
(03:24):
or they just don't have anything definitive. And usually it's
on higher mileage vehicles. How many miles are on your car.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
One hundred and thirty five thousand, right, and I talked
to a mechanic and he talked to one of the
Honda mechanics that he trained in the area, and he said,
it's becoming a very big issue. Right around one hundred
thousand miles. They're failing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And you know, I blame part of it on you're
a turbocharged car. Correct, Yes, you know there's that extra
pressure on an engine because we've got to make things
turbo charge, and it's it's one of the reasons I
cringe at it. But you know, it's hard. You can't
find anything today that isn't turbo charged. It's almost like
and you can't find anything today that's not CVT transmission.
(04:10):
The other week link in a lot of vehicles Honda
included and yes, you know that's that's that's an issue.
So I would tell you to get it done obviously
Honda factory parts, and keep all your receipts because you
never know what the next six months to a year
will bring in terms of if Honda will actually, you know,
do anything about it and make good for it. You know,
(04:32):
they it takes. It just takes a certain number of complaints, complainers,
and I would tell you to complain to Honda. I
would tell you to talk to Honda and say, look,
I'm a loyal Honda customer. I'm assuming, right, John, you've
had more than a few of these. Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I've had a bunch of Hondas all the way back
to the Honda CRX when it first came out and
made car of the year, right, Honda Odyssey's accords, and
I've always driven those cars three hundred thousand plus us
never had any engine troubles, and I've I've explained to you,
I've had a issue with a twenty seventeen Honda Civic
(05:09):
with the CBT going out, and I was like, what now.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Another another common failure? Yeah, another common issue that they've
they've had their issues with. Did you have the timing
chain problem on your two Leader?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Okay, you may, and I guess when they're doing the
head GISs, get to look to see if there's any
updated parts for that as well. The two fours had problems.
The two Leaders had some issues. The one fives, the
little one to five Leader turbo charge motor has some
engine issues. It's funny how they've engineered themselves into a corner.
I think that they've got these weak links going on.
(05:48):
And it's not just Honda. A lot of the car
companies are going through it right now. And I'm not
sure why, you know, did the engineers get together and collude.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's sad because I have been such a loyal Honda guy.
My wife has a twenty sixteen Honda pilot and when
I found out I had CBT issues, I was like,
do I have a CBT transmission in that? And I don't.
I'm happy, yeah, but you know, yeah, it's making me
look at some other brands, you know, and maybe we
(06:19):
need enough people out there in the radio land to
raise some smoke about this issue with the two point ohers.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yep. Well, and that's part of the reason, you know, Listen,
I went to you. I wanted to hear this story.
But and that's a fair point. That's I always like
to present this to the radio audience and say, hey,
you know, what's everybody else doing? And by all means
we want to hear about it, but I also want
to encourage you. I would talk to, you know, the
dealership where it's being done. I would talk to Honda corporate. Look,
(06:47):
I'm a loyal Honda customer. You know, we know this
is a problem. Just because it hasn't hit bulletin level
yet doesn't mean that it's not an issue. And I
want to know what you're going to do to make
me happy. They've got to do something for you know,
it'd be nice. Hey, you take a fifty to fifty split, right,
they do some labor and you know parts, and you know,
just to see yeah, you know it's it's because.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
What I'm hearing is that's a five thousand dollars problem.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, it's a big problem. It's it's an expensive Yeah,
it's a chunk, right, it's a chunk. And they're going
to tell you, well, you know it's got one hundred
and forty thousand miles on it, mister John, And uh,
you know your answer is going to be, well, look
at my oil change records, you know, And I should
I should ask that question in all fairness, I'm sure,
but have you done your maintenance you know as per
(07:35):
what what they call for, and you've got your receipts
for oil changes, and you know your sixty or ninety
thousand mile service if they if they required you to
change cool into the specific time interval, and you know mileage.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You did all that, yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So you know it kind of makes the argument, Hey,
I did everything you told me to do. I did
all the service. You know what's going on, and you
know you want to keep me as a customer. You
got to do something for me. The powers in your hands.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It makes me think of the Aaron Brockovich movie. Yep,
we just need one person to scream loud and a lot, right,
and sometimes you get the industry's attention attention. Well, you
get your younger person that's real good on social media
and they don't like the heat that that can bring.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, it takes a certain number of complaints. It
starts off, you know, when they have failures like this,
It starts off as a service campaign dealer level. You know, hey,
mister Honda dealer, if you see X y Z customer
come in and they've got this particular problem, we want
you to do this, this routine, this method, this replacement,
(08:49):
and we want to try and nip this in the butt.
After the campaign level. Let's say campaign levels one hundred cars.
I'm exaggerating because you know who knows what the numbers are,
but just to show you the proportion for them, to
write a bulletin, that number goes from one hundred to
one thousand, because understand, when they write a bulletin, not
only are they writing a bulletin and admitting that they've
(09:10):
got a problem, they're going to run it through legal,
They're going to run it through marketing, they're going to
talk to everybody because now this represents the company and
its public information. And then for it to go from
bulletin level to recall, it takes a lot more. It's
a lot, it's a much bigger number. That thousand incidents
(09:31):
becomes one hundred thousand incidents or more, and you know,
the concern there is that and this is you know,
they haven't had enough or as many complaints as required
yet because they will recall something before the government tells
them to recall it. Because if the government says recall it,
(09:51):
the government makes them recall it, and it finds them.
And the fine on vehicle recalls went up quite a
bit five six years ago. That that's what started all
the heavy recoil. Instance, if you're cool with the air
bag scenarios and everything that we went through between twenty
fifteen and twenty twenty, that's what started all that, So
document document everything, John, talk to the dealer, talk to
(10:13):
Honda Corporate, tell them you want to open up a
complaint in case they've got to do something for you.
Otherwise you're going to fix this and move on to
the next one. You're not the first person I know
of that went through this, and my advice to them
is exactly what I'm telling you here. It may take
a while, but I'd be willing to bet you'll get
something eventually.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And the only other thing I would like to add
is low profile tires and rims are good for one thing,
a photo. Yeah yeah, Well, I thing I did was
get rid of them. Well they get real tires and
real rims.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
You know, they're good for two things. They're good for
a photo and for generating bad wheels and chopped up
tires when you hit a pothole.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, I'm I work in the offshore all industry, so
if I get off of a boat at two in
the morning, I'm not going to look at my tire
and put an airro gate on it. And I've ruined
about three or four tires driving down the highway at night.
When I hear my tire just goes goes. You know out.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Let's let the car be fun, but make it practical.
And I get that percent, one hundred percent. John, it
was a pleasure, sir. I hope they I hope they
solve it for you. If if you feel the need,
you know where to find this. You give us a
call back, and we're glad to talk about this again
and keep everybody updated on your trials and tribulations.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
All right, thank you so much. Come down and need
some good Cajun food and tobasco.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I might take you up on that, John, you'd be well,
my friend. Yes, sir, you're very welcome. I'm Ronning Andy
and the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Let's go to the email big. I love doing emails.
Ron loved listening to your show. I've been a long
time listener since the days of New York. Thought you
might make this little story. This comes to us from Daniel.
(11:52):
I dropped my car off yesterday to have a regular
service in some minor suspension work done. I picked it
up the say afternoon and paid the nearly eight hundred
dollars bill and went started up in the yard. Straight
away I noticed the misfire. The car was shaking and
struggling to maintain an idol. I went back into the
office to report the issue, as it definitely wasn't misfiring
when I dropped it off, but now it was. I'm
(12:12):
not unreasonable, and the misfire could be entirely coincidental and
have nothing to do with the work done. But I
was told at the desk, without them even looking at
the car, we only did an oil change, which meant
to me not our fault, and that it could be
a foul plug for moving it back and forth in
the workshop, and to take it home down the freeway
and hope that it would clear itself and if not,
bring it back tomorrow. I wasn't confident taking the car
(12:34):
home as the idol was that bad, and most certainly
I didn't want to break down on the freeway either.
They were very reluctant to spend any time. I've got
to wonder, is this a long term I guess it
is as long term mechanic. That's crazy, he goes on
to say. Daniel goes on to say I had to
really press them to at least put a scan tool
on it, which they finally did. By the way, when
they lifted the hen when they lifted the hood the
(12:57):
engine to plug in the tool, it was idling so badly,
rocking side to side. This has to be an older
German car. The mechanic hooked up the scan tool and
it reported a misfire. He checked around the engine bay
and under one of the plastic valve covers discovered a
vacuum pipe, one end of it not attached to anything.
As soon as he reconnected, if the misfire went away,
it would seem as part of the oil change, and
(13:17):
removing some of the plastic shrouding the pipe became dislodged. Again,
I'm not unreasonable and I know these things happened. It
could have been that it was unconnected to the oil
change and a brand new problem that was just bad timing.
The reluctance to spend five ten minutes in the yard
and even the plug in a scan tool was disappointing.
Knowingly sending a customer away with a misfiring car and
(13:39):
to not at least put a scan tool on it
very least am my being unreasonable. So it turned out
it was their fault. It left me with a bitter
taste when after just paying eight hundred dollars they wouldn't
give me the courtesy of five to ten minutes in
the yard to see where the car had started misfiring
upon my collection of it. Anyway, I thought you'd be
interested in hearing the story, and you might want to
talk about it on the show. I am. I did,
I would, of course. I'm certain that I visited your workshop.
(14:01):
You not have knowingly sent me down the freeway with
a misfiring car, not at least without spending a few
minutes to try and see what the problem might be
before making a judgment call on if it was safe
enough to use or not. Perhaps I'm unreasonable and expecting
too much from my mechanic hind reguards, Daniel, No, Daniel,
I'll tell you what. I read this not to bash somebody,
but no, you're not being unreasonable. Look, you know, you
(14:23):
leave a car with a mechanic, it's in their charge,
you know, courtesy and consideration thereof, and they're trying to
if they're doing the job right. And this is what
you're looking for, and I think most people are. You're
looking to know that when you leave that shop the
vehicle is in as proper working order as the budget
that supports it. Allows and is proper working order? Is
(14:44):
what you had requested to be done? Yes, I agree
one hundred percent that it never should have come to that,
you know, but I agree hundred percent they were obligated
to go out and look at the car if it
wasn't making that because it had are they making it
when it parked it? It sounds like a some sort
of crank case ventilation tube with manifold vacuum in it
was which allowed air to come into the engine was
(15:06):
knocked loose and it created a lean misfire. Look at
this way. A fuel system misfires, right, but it created
a lean misfire and they had to know it upon
finishing up with the oil change. I think it's really important.
And one of the things my why change your oil here? Signed?
I have a sign up in the shop, why change
your oil here? Because it talks about, you know how,
(15:31):
other than what a quick loop does. A quick loob
doesn't do road tests, right a quick looping they bring
the car in, they drop the oil, they change it,
and boom, they go on with their day. A repair
shop has the ability, and a lot of shops don't
do this, And I'm amazed and Daniel I think your
shop is one of them where they don't road test
(15:51):
things both prior and after the oil change. And I
think it's a very important piece of the puzzle. I
think they absolutely we have to. I think it's really
important that a shop does an oil change they do
a rod test both before and after, because they would
have discovered this and it would save them the embarrassment,
it would save you the aggravation, and perhaps they would
(16:13):
come to you and say, hey, Daniel, by the way,
this tube falls out of the intake manifold or falls
out of the valve cover. It's easy enough, the gromets
are dried out. It's an older vehicle. You would only
be so happy too, Let's fix it. Let's order some
parts and get it solved. So yeah, I think they
I think they missed the mark. I really do. And
(16:34):
I think that their handling of it was poor. I
think a smart repair shop keeps a scan tool by
the door just for this occasion. We keep an OBD
two only dedicated scan tool quick, Simple, down and dirty
right by the door, the door tool, we call it.
We actually call it the door tool. It's the old
blue and gray and we can plug in and we
(16:57):
can get information out of a vehicle and under a minute.
And any good customer is worth a minute, any good
customer is worth five minutes. And somebody that's a long
term customer, of course, and that's part of what it is.
This is a service business. You can tell them from me.
I think they missed the mark. I think they should
have done this differently. And know that you know it's
(17:18):
up to them to make it up to you. But
I would also think about getting those grommets repaired and replaced. Daniel.
I appreciate the email, and I hope you got what
you wanted out of this, and I hope they give
you something good to make up for it. I'm on
an ending in the car, doctor, I'll be back right
after this. Don't go away. Let's go to the great
state of Texas. Let's go talk to Tyler and Waller.
(17:38):
Am I saying that right, Tyler Waller Texas?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Or you are?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Do I get a caboy hat and spurs? Am I ready?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yes? Almost? I mean, what's going on with your twenty
twelve niece on frontier?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Here?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
This I'm reading this, This doesn't look good. Tell us
the story.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Well, I got it back from having the engine read
remaining fectured at Thunderbolt transmission and came up with a
hard start roughdal throwing a few codes. The main one
that's concerned is the P zero three, three five. The
others are chassis codes, right, So took it back to them.
(18:19):
They worked on it for three weeks, couldn't figure it out.
They checked wire harness and all that, and it supposedly
came back right. So whenever I got I got it back,
I went and looked at it. Still tried changing sensors
with OEM brand parts, because if you don't change both
of them at the same time, sometimes it the ECM
(18:39):
compares the signal from both of them, so through cause
the code. But nothing there no luck them changing lass.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Is this so just a couple of things. First of all,
the chassis codes? Was it an eleven thirty, eleven thirty
two and something sequential along those lines?
Speaker 5 (18:59):
There was a eleven thirty see eleven thirty two and
a C eleven sixty three.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All right, disregard those for the moment. As I'm sure
you are, go go take a look at Nissan bulletin.
Nissan's got a couple of bulletins out on this. The
last one I saw was NTB sixteen Dish one one
six dated November of sixteen, and they talk about how
a Nissan of this generation will set a fault code
(19:28):
see eleven thirty and so on when it has a
ratic engine signal. Okay, okay, so so let's just take
that off the plate for the moment. All right, what
sort of scan tool do I have access to?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
The Enova OBED two scanner that look hooks up to
a phone on the app okayer appone.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So the downside to this is it's gonna be pretty slow,
all right, because it's got a it's an interface that's
probably a Bluetooth connection to you your phone. I'm guessing
it is, yes, sir, So the data being buffered isn't
going to be great when you if you clear this
fault code? How long before it comes back the.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Moment you start to crank you turn the key again?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, So, so will it come back with just turning
the key to the on position or will it come
back it doesn't come back until.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
You crank it the moment you start to crank it.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Okay, So I think you've got an issue with the flywheel.
Just from my seat. Here the fly with the crank
centers in the back of the block.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Correct, correct, it is, Yes, it's it's a passenger side.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right, and it's triggered off the flywheel. And I'm wondering
if when the machine shop rebuilt it, did we did
we grab something from a different Nissan. Nissans get funny,
they they you know, I've seen twelves and thirteen's be different.
I don't know that for effect on yours. I'd have
to go look at part numbers, but I'm thinking you've
(21:04):
got an incorrect part back on your vehicle. What I
what I'd love to do, if I had access to it,
is to put a lab scope on this. And I'm
not I'm not a lab scope guy. I don't go
I don't go running towards a lab scope for every
possible thing. But I'd love to see electrically what this
signal is putting out. And I bet it's I bet
it's putting out garbage. I bet it's putting out an
(21:25):
incorrect signal. And what I would really like to do is,
let me ask you this question, Tyler, do you understand
what I'm saying when I'm with a lab scope and
looking at the crank signal.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yes, it compares the electrical signals and shows.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, so so it Yeah, if we had if we
had a bicycle, two sprockets, big Sprocket, little Sprocket, and
there was a dot at you know, a matching dot
on each sprocket, and is as as the small Sprocket
went around twice the little the big Sprocket would go
around once, okay, and we would see that relationship. And
(22:01):
if we had the ability to put a sensor on it,
we would see how it came up. It came up,
it came up, and they would they would index to
each other. You could actually overlay the signals and see
the beginning of and the end of each signal and
know that they're in alignment. All right. I'd love to
see that. I'd love to see a cam crank labscope
sink test here. And you know what am I seeing?
(22:23):
Because the fact that this the fact that this comes
up right away as soon as you start to crank it,
but it doesn't come up when you just turn the
key on, tells me this is not a circuit fault.
This is a performance fault. You get it?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I do yes.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So, in other words, if you took the crank sensor
and unplugged it and turn the key to the omposition.
Depending on how the software interprets it, in most cases,
it will set a crank sensor circuit fault, not a
performance fault, right it It sets a performance fault in
the sense that it's it's plugged in, it can see
(23:04):
the signal go down. If it's monitoring that voltage in
voltage out, it's seeing signal go in. It's not seeing
a correct change. It's not seeing the voltage on that
line being pulled down as it would expect it to do.
So it's saying, hey, P zero three thirty five, it's
applausibility error. It doesn't make any sense to the computer.
So I this is a This is a real good
(23:26):
example of why I would use a scope. And the
scope is usually about four or five on my list
of when I pull it out, there's a you know,
there's a few things I look at first, but I
think in this case, I just want to cut to
the chase, the fact that it wasn't there before they
did the engine, because once you clear up that three
thirty five, you're going to find I'm willing to bet
that the C eleven thirty clears up too, and the
(23:48):
rest of them. Okay, all right, does your that This
is where it gets a little dicey. If we had
a scan tool. If you had a scan tool that
connected right to the OBED two port and it wasn't
that data buffer, you might be able to see cranking
r pm because it would be fast enough. It would
be a direct connection. You might be able to see
(24:10):
cranking r PM while you're cranking it if you disabled
fuel for example, all right, and you could see you know,
crank signal out that way. But I think the only
hope we've got here is we've got to We've got
to look at this as far as do a cam
crank sync, make sure that the engine is and and
for that matter, is the engine mechanically in time? Can
(24:32):
we can we check the mechanical timing. But to do that,
we've got to take the front cover off.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Right, the timing chains on the front y. It's dual
overhead cam with a crank chef in the bottom right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
So you know, this is an example. We're going and
doing cam crank sinc. With a labscope is going to
give us an electrical picture of what kind of mechanical
condition we're in? Does the does the trans shop? And
I have to ask why is a trans shop rebuilding
an engine?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
They do transmissions and motors, and they started with motors,
move to transitions, but they keep.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
It just it just sounds funny, right, it's just you know,
transmiss Yeah, I get it, But I would ask them,
can they can they put a labpscope on this? Can
they do a cam crank sync? Can they show you
an electronic picture of the bicycle sprockets and that they're
in time right? And then and then as they rev
it up, you know, go for a ride. As you
(25:29):
rev it up, you should see them maintain that that
that balance, that synchronization. If this vehicle has variable valve
timing on it, you will see the cam you know,
go forward, go backwards accordingly. Although I don't think a
twelve had vv T. I don't think it was in
the cards for that generation.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
So I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, it's it's a pretty basic This is a pretty
basic bread and butter vehicle. So all right, kiddo, But
that's that's where I would go. And you know, if
you need more, you know, where to find me.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
All right, absolutely, all right, tell you very much.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You're very welcome. You'd be well to emphasize the point.
The problem with a repair like this is it ran
good until it spun. The bearing in the engine failed
and now it doesn't. So and the shop tyler said
had gone through and don somewhat inspecting of wiring. Things
are connected correctly, and everything's backward it's supposed to be.
(26:25):
It's time to do some basic testing. And that's why
I say it's time for a labscope. I want to
see crank signal. I want to see crank signal in
relation to the CAM position sensor in relation to the
CAM signal. I'm looking for an anomaly, something that's out
of place. The trigger device. All right, everybody talks about
(26:45):
the crank sensor. What triggers the sensor. The crank sensor
reads and creates a signal based on how its stimulated
off of either the flywheel in some cases, in this case,
the crank shaft. But there is a tone ring on
the crank shaft that is indexed and it might have
(27:06):
it might have thirty right angle or thirty right angle snubs.
Think of the top of a castle, right how the
top of a castle looks. It's a square top, square top,
square top. It might have thirty square tops, evenly spaced,
except for one, and that one is as the index,
so it means something to the crank position censored to
(27:27):
the engine computer. It's an index showing relationship of number
one cylinder or number three or however they're going to
index it. Every manufacturer seems to do it a little different.
But my point becomes the only way you're going to
see that short of taking the engine apart, and you
might either taking the engine apart anyway, is to use
a labscope and to look at that signal and how
does that signal index off of number one cylinder firing
(27:50):
in relation to the cam, in relation to the cam
and i'm sorry, in relation to the crank and does
everything line up? And that's where I think Tyler has
to go on this enough. If this is not external wiring,
and it's not a PCM, and I'm not saying it
is or isn't. I'm just saying we've got to go
start testing. Here's a perfect example of looking at tell
(28:10):
me what's good, I'll tell you what's bad. Let's go
look at individual components and test them, take them out
of the car in our mind and test them. And
the best way we're going to do that is with
a lab scope. Now, the good news is there are
easy ways to do this, depending upon what this shop has.
And I'm not sure that the engine shop is going
to have this, but Tyler, if you're still listening, if
(28:32):
they find certain scan tools, snap On, the snap On Triton,
the snap On Zeus Plus both have labscopes. Both have
known waveform patterns in them, so you'll see a good
waveform pattern. They'll even tell you how to hook up
all right, so they don't have to necessarily be a
great scope person. If they know how to hook up
(28:52):
basic meter leads and understand the theory behind it, they'll
be able to do this. There are others. There's Peko,
There's you know, there's other Launch makes a lab scope.
There's all sorts of different ways to look at this,
all different manufacturers. But the thing I like about snap
On is that it gives you a known good picture.
Of course, you can always go look at images also,
(29:12):
but Tyler, if you're learning on this one, this isn't
the car to learn on. You've got to go find
somebody that's labscope capable. But those are the reasons and
some of the things and some of the options you have.
So I bet this is going to come out to
be if this is internal, there's something about that crank,
either the part, the way it was assembled, the way
it was indexed. Something. But a labscope check, a cam
(29:35):
crank sink check will tell us and get to the
bottom of this once and for all. I'm not on
an ad in the card. Doctor. Let's pull over, take
a pause. We're back right after this. Well, we're back.
Let's go. Let's go to the sunny state of Florida
before they melt, because I bet it's warm down there.
Let's go talk to Tom and Lakeland, Florida. Tom, you're
on with the car doctor, sir, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I have a two thousand and five Chrysler Sea Bring convertible.
It has maybe seven thousand miles. I've owned it for
four years and I've used Mobile one oil with it,
and I'm thinking of switching to AMS oil, which is
(30:17):
a little bit more pricey, Right, is worth? Is it
worth the investment?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Probably not? Listen, ams Oil's good oil, all right. I
have no doubt in my mind, I have no knocks
against amz oil. I often wonder why amz oil didn't
make it bigger, and I always think it's distribution and
how they how they came to market, or how they
come to market. Mobile one's good oil to me. Mobile
one's a lot easier to get than AMS oil, you know, especially,
(30:45):
I'll tell you what. From a New Jersey point of view,
Mobile one's easier to get than amzoil. I can pick
up the phone and have Mobile one delivered. I can't
do that with ams oil. Do I think?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I do?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I think amz oil is a better oil for a
two thousand and five Chrysler. No, I don't think it's
gonna matter a whole heck of a lot, right, I
think if what you've been doing is working, car doesn't
burn any oil, the engines quiet, the oil comes out,
you know, relatively quick and clean, no sludge build up.
It's working. Why change it, right? You know, it's that simple,
(31:18):
you know, just just stay on top of your oil
changes and you'll be just fine, now, you know. Having
said that, there are situations where I would use amazoil
over anything else. They've got some really great products there.
Gear oil, I think is really superb. As a matter
of fact, I ran Amzoyil gear oil in my first
hot rod in the rear end of fifty seven old's
(31:40):
rear with forty eight zuomis, and you know that rear
never failed where everybody else was having their issues, that
that rear never failed. And I really believe it was
part of the lubrication that I had in it, because
the amazoil could take a beating. So there's a time
and a place. But you've started with mobile one, it's
readily available to you. I don't see the point in
changing now.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Would the filter be a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What kind of filter are you using?
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I'm using?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, you know, good quality frame that you know there's
there's there's less expensive versions of FRAM, there's the Hype,
there's the HP version of FRAM. So there are better
filters out there. Me personally, I like a Wix. I
like I like Wix's uh performance version of a filter.
They make a great filter, and I you know, I
(32:27):
would have no qualms with that. There's you know, it's
funny we as a society, we seem there's cheap versions
of filters, there's expensive versions of filters. There's a lot
of good filters out there. Honestly, I think I think
most of the filters are made by one of three
companies and then market it under their own name. So
I think to answer the question, just use the better
(32:47):
version of whatever's readily available and quickly available, and I
think you'll be just fine. So you know that, coupled
along with your mobile, I will be the way to go.
All right, I appreciate the call.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'm Ron an Any and the car Doctor. We're back
right after this. This is my least favorite part of
the show and my favorite part of the show. My
least favorite because well it's coming to an end, but
my most favorite because that means when this one ends,
another hour begins somewhere out in the radio universe. So
but in any event, I want to thank everybody that
(33:20):
took part in today's show. It was great to talk
to everybody. I especially enjoyed Tom and Florida, and for
Tyler in Texas, I hope that you know, he's able
to find somebody with a labscope to get a look
at what I was talking about and see what that
crank sensor is doing, and you know, we can kind
of go from there. But for everybody else, I just
want to remind you real quick one last time. As always,
(33:40):
I'm Ron and Andy and the Car Doctor. Till the
next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See you
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to
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and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your engines. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you and welcome. Yeah, let's we're looking forward to
this in another hour of great Order repair Radio. I'm
happy to be here for all of you. Let me
just point out too, real quick company by the name
of Powerpro. I think a lot of us are familiar
with them. They've come out with a new meter, their
DM three hundred, great approach to solve a very old
hard problem looking for vehicle electrical draws. The DM three
(01:11):
hundred gives us the ability to do milli vault draw
testing across fuses, and it does the calculations inside. You know,
it used to be that we would measure milli vaults
across a fuse, do a look up on a chart,
and then decide is that a correct milli vault number
(01:32):
or not. The DM three hundred does it for you,
and it makes the conversion right on the display, and
it tells you what the ampage draw is. It makes
that conversion from milli vaults to ampage and so on.
So we're gonna be road testing that in the coming week.
So I just wanted to point that out and we're
looking forward to doing that. We'll get that up on
(01:52):
our YouTube channel. We'll talk about it up here. And
I bet you I can wrangle Brandon to get me
someone to interview my contact guy over there a power probe.
But right now, let's go over and talk to Let's
go to John on Louisiana, New Iberia, Louisiana, the home
of Tabasco saus John. Yes, yeah, it is okay, what's
(02:14):
going on? With you in your twenty eighteen Honda Accord.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I have a twenty eighteen Honda Accord two point zero
that I love, love driving it, and I started having
some problems with needing to add coolant to it. Took
it to my mechanic. He checked it, did a pressure check,
replaced my radiator cap, continued and I was still losing
(02:42):
coolant and they started throwing codes. Went back to my
mechanic and tested it and said, I have a blown
head gasket between cylinder one and two.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And as I started looking into that and getting on
some Honda forums, I found out that this is quite
the issue.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yep, absolutely absolutely. It's become a very common phenomenon, and
it's funny how the industry is just accepting it. I
know there's a couple of conversations from Honda about it,
but there's no recall. And the only answer I've got
is because every everybody always wants to know is there
a recall, they just either haven't hit the numbers yet
(03:24):
or they just don't have anything definitive. And usually it's
on higher mileage vehicles. How many miles are on your car.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
One hundred and thirty five thousand, right, and I talked
to a mechanic and he talked to one of the
Honda mechanics that he trained in the area, and he said,
it's becoming a very big issue. Right around one hundred
thousand miles. They're failing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And you know, I blame part of it on you're
a turbocharged car. Correct, Yes, you know there's that extra
pressure on an engine because we've got to make things
turbo charge, and it's it's one of the reasons I
cringe at it. But you know, it's hard. You can't
find anything today that isn't turbo charged. It's almost like
and you can't find anything today that's not CVT transmission.
(04:10):
The other week link in a lot of vehicles Honda
included and yes, you know that's that's that's an issue.
So I would tell you to get it done obviously
Honda factory parts, and keep all your receipts because you
never know what the next six months to a year
will bring in terms of if Honda will actually, you know,
do anything about it and make good for it. You know,
(04:32):
they it takes. It just takes a certain number of complaints, complainers,
and I would tell you to complain to Honda. I
would tell you to talk to Honda and say, look,
I'm a loyal Honda customer. I'm assuming, right, John, you've
had more than a few of these. Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I've had a bunch of Hondas all the way back
to the Honda CRX when it first came out and
made car of the year, right, Honda Odyssey's accords, and
I've always driven those cars three hundred thousand plus us
never had any engine troubles, and I've I've explained to you,
I've had a issue with a twenty seventeen Honda Civic
(05:09):
with the CBT going out, and I was like, what now.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Another another common failure? Yeah, another common issue that they've
they've had their issues with. Did you have the timing
chain problem on your two Leader?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Okay, you may, and I guess when they're doing the
head GISs, get to look to see if there's any
updated parts for that as well. The two fours had problems.
The two Leaders had some issues. The one fives, the
little one to five Leader turbo charge motor has some
engine issues. It's funny how they've engineered themselves into a corner.
I think that they've got these weak links going on.
(05:48):
And it's not just Honda. A lot of the car
companies are going through it right now. And I'm not
sure why, you know, did the engineers get together and collude.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's sad because I have been such a loyal Honda guy.
My wife has a twenty sixteen Honda pilot and when
I found out I had CBT issues, I was like,
do I have a CBT transmission in that? And I don't.
I'm happy, yeah, but you know, yeah, it's making me
look at some other brands, you know, and maybe we
(06:19):
need enough people out there in the radio land to
raise some smoke about this issue with the two point ohers.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yep. Well, and that's part of the reason, you know, Listen,
I went to you. I wanted to hear this story.
But and that's a fair point. That's I always like
to present this to the radio audience and say, hey,
you know, what's everybody else doing? And by all means
we want to hear about it, but I also want
to encourage you. I would talk to, you know, the
dealership where it's being done. I would talk to Honda corporate. Look,
(06:47):
I'm a loyal Honda customer. You know, we know this
is a problem. Just because it hasn't hit bulletin level
yet doesn't mean that it's not an issue. And I
want to know what you're going to do to make
me happy. They've got to do something for you know,
it'd be nice. Hey, you take a fifty to fifty split, right,
they do some labor and you know parts, and you know,
just to see yeah, you know it's it's because.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
What I'm hearing is that's a five thousand dollars problem.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, it's a big problem. It's it's an expensive Yeah,
it's a chunk, right, it's a chunk. And they're going
to tell you, well, you know it's got one hundred
and forty thousand miles on it, mister John, And uh,
you know your answer is going to be, well, look
at my oil change records, you know, And I should
I should ask that question in all fairness, I'm sure,
but have you done your maintenance you know as per
(07:35):
what what they call for, and you've got your receipts
for oil changes, and you know your sixty or ninety
thousand mile service if they if they required you to
change cool into the specific time interval, and you know mileage.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You did all that, yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So you know it kind of makes the argument, Hey,
I did everything you told me to do. I did
all the service. You know what's going on, and you
know you want to keep me as a customer. You
got to do something for me. The powers in your hands.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It makes me think of the Aaron Brockovich movie. Yep,
we just need one person to scream loud and a lot, right,
and sometimes you get the industry's attention attention. Well, you
get your younger person that's real good on social media
and they don't like the heat that that can bring.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, it takes a certain number of complaints. It
starts off, you know, when they have failures like this,
It starts off as a service campaign dealer level. You know, hey,
mister Honda dealer, if you see X y Z customer
come in and they've got this particular problem, we want
you to do this, this routine, this method, this replacement,
(08:49):
and we want to try and nip this in the butt.
After the campaign level. Let's say campaign levels one hundred cars.
I'm exaggerating because you know who knows what the numbers are,
but just to show you the proportion for them, to
write a bulletin, that number goes from one hundred to
one thousand, because understand, when they write a bulletin, not
only are they writing a bulletin and admitting that they've
(09:10):
got a problem, they're going to run it through legal,
They're going to run it through marketing, they're going to
talk to everybody because now this represents the company and
its public information. And then for it to go from
bulletin level to recall, it takes a lot more. It's
a lot, it's a much bigger number. That thousand incidents
(09:31):
becomes one hundred thousand incidents or more, and you know,
the concern there is that and this is you know,
they haven't had enough or as many complaints as required
yet because they will recall something before the government tells
them to recall it. Because if the government says recall it,
(09:51):
the government makes them recall it, and it finds them.
And the fine on vehicle recalls went up quite a
bit five six years ago. That that's what started all
the heavy recoil. Instance, if you're cool with the air
bag scenarios and everything that we went through between twenty
fifteen and twenty twenty, that's what started all that, So
document document everything, John, talk to the dealer, talk to
(10:13):
Honda Corporate, tell them you want to open up a
complaint in case they've got to do something for you.
Otherwise you're going to fix this and move on to
the next one. You're not the first person I know
of that went through this, and my advice to them
is exactly what I'm telling you here. It may take
a while, but I'd be willing to bet you'll get
something eventually.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And the only other thing I would like to add
is low profile tires and rims are good for one thing,
a photo. Yeah yeah, Well, I thing I did was
get rid of them. Well they get real tires and
real rims.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
You know, they're good for two things. They're good for
a photo and for generating bad wheels and chopped up
tires when you hit a pothole.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, I'm I work in the offshore all industry, so
if I get off of a boat at two in
the morning, I'm not going to look at my tire
and put an airro gate on it. And I've ruined
about three or four tires driving down the highway at night.
When I hear my tire just goes goes. You know out.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Let's let the car be fun, but make it practical.
And I get that percent, one hundred percent. John, it
was a pleasure, sir. I hope they I hope they
solve it for you. If if you feel the need,
you know where to find this. You give us a
call back, and we're glad to talk about this again
and keep everybody updated on your trials and tribulations.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
All right, thank you so much. Come down and need
some good Cajun food and tobasco.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I might take you up on that, John, you'd be well,
my friend. Yes, sir, you're very welcome. I'm Ronning Andy
and the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Let's go to the email big. I love doing emails.
Ron loved listening to your show. I've been a long
time listener since the days of New York. Thought you
might make this little story. This comes to us from Daniel.
(11:52):
I dropped my car off yesterday to have a regular
service in some minor suspension work done. I picked it
up the say afternoon and paid the nearly eight hundred
dollars bill and went started up in the yard. Straight
away I noticed the misfire. The car was shaking and
struggling to maintain an idol. I went back into the
office to report the issue, as it definitely wasn't misfiring
when I dropped it off, but now it was. I'm
(12:12):
not unreasonable, and the misfire could be entirely coincidental and
have nothing to do with the work done. But I
was told at the desk, without them even looking at
the car, we only did an oil change, which meant
to me not our fault, and that it could be
a foul plug for moving it back and forth in
the workshop, and to take it home down the freeway
and hope that it would clear itself and if not,
bring it back tomorrow. I wasn't confident taking the car
(12:34):
home as the idol was that bad, and most certainly
I didn't want to break down on the freeway either.
They were very reluctant to spend any time. I've got
to wonder, is this a long term I guess it
is as long term mechanic. That's crazy, he goes on
to say. Daniel goes on to say I had to
really press them to at least put a scan tool
on it, which they finally did. By the way, when
they lifted the hen when they lifted the hood the
(12:57):
engine to plug in the tool, it was idling so badly,
rocking side to side. This has to be an older
German car. The mechanic hooked up the scan tool and
it reported a misfire. He checked around the engine bay
and under one of the plastic valve covers discovered a
vacuum pipe, one end of it not attached to anything.
As soon as he reconnected, if the misfire went away,
it would seem as part of the oil change, and
(13:17):
removing some of the plastic shrouding the pipe became dislodged. Again,
I'm not unreasonable and I know these things happened. It
could have been that it was unconnected to the oil
change and a brand new problem that was just bad timing.
The reluctance to spend five ten minutes in the yard
and even the plug in a scan tool was disappointing.
Knowingly sending a customer away with a misfiring car and
(13:39):
to not at least put a scan tool on it
very least am my being unreasonable. So it turned out
it was their fault. It left me with a bitter
taste when after just paying eight hundred dollars they wouldn't
give me the courtesy of five to ten minutes in
the yard to see where the car had started misfiring
upon my collection of it. Anyway, I thought you'd be
interested in hearing the story, and you might want to
talk about it on the show. I am. I did,
I would, of course. I'm certain that I visited your workshop.
(14:01):
You not have knowingly sent me down the freeway with
a misfiring car, not at least without spending a few
minutes to try and see what the problem might be
before making a judgment call on if it was safe
enough to use or not. Perhaps I'm unreasonable and expecting
too much from my mechanic hind reguards, Daniel, No, Daniel,
I'll tell you what. I read this not to bash somebody,
but no, you're not being unreasonable. Look, you know, you
(14:23):
leave a car with a mechanic, it's in their charge,
you know, courtesy and consideration thereof, and they're trying to
if they're doing the job right. And this is what
you're looking for, and I think most people are. You're
looking to know that when you leave that shop the
vehicle is in as proper working order as the budget
that supports it. Allows and is proper working order? Is
(14:44):
what you had requested to be done? Yes, I agree
one hundred percent that it never should have come to that,
you know, but I agree hundred percent they were obligated
to go out and look at the car if it
wasn't making that because it had are they making it
when it parked it? It sounds like a some sort
of crank case ventilation tube with manifold vacuum in it
was which allowed air to come into the engine was
(15:06):
knocked loose and it created a lean misfire. Look at
this way. A fuel system misfires, right, but it created
a lean misfire and they had to know it upon
finishing up with the oil change. I think it's really important.
And one of the things my why change your oil here? Signed?
I have a sign up in the shop, why change
your oil here? Because it talks about, you know how,
(15:31):
other than what a quick loop does. A quick loob
doesn't do road tests, right a quick looping they bring
the car in, they drop the oil, they change it,
and boom, they go on with their day. A repair
shop has the ability, and a lot of shops don't
do this, And I'm amazed and Daniel I think your
shop is one of them where they don't road test
(15:51):
things both prior and after the oil change. And I
think it's a very important piece of the puzzle. I
think they absolutely we have to. I think it's really
important that a shop does an oil change they do
a rod test both before and after, because they would
have discovered this and it would save them the embarrassment,
it would save you the aggravation, and perhaps they would
(16:13):
come to you and say, hey, Daniel, by the way,
this tube falls out of the intake manifold or falls
out of the valve cover. It's easy enough, the gromets
are dried out. It's an older vehicle. You would only
be so happy too, Let's fix it. Let's order some
parts and get it solved. So yeah, I think they
I think they missed the mark. I really do. And
(16:34):
I think that their handling of it was poor. I
think a smart repair shop keeps a scan tool by
the door just for this occasion. We keep an OBD
two only dedicated scan tool quick, Simple, down and dirty
right by the door, the door tool, we call it.
We actually call it the door tool. It's the old
blue and gray and we can plug in and we
(16:57):
can get information out of a vehicle and under a minute.
And any good customer is worth a minute, any good
customer is worth five minutes. And somebody that's a long
term customer, of course, and that's part of what it is.
This is a service business. You can tell them from me.
I think they missed the mark. I think they should
have done this differently. And know that you know it's
(17:18):
up to them to make it up to you. But
I would also think about getting those grommets repaired and replaced. Daniel.
I appreciate the email, and I hope you got what
you wanted out of this, and I hope they give
you something good to make up for it. I'm on
an ending in the car, doctor, I'll be back right
after this. Don't go away. Let's go to the great
state of Texas. Let's go talk to Tyler and Waller.
(17:38):
Am I saying that right, Tyler Waller Texas?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Or you are?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Do I get a caboy hat and spurs? Am I ready?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yes? Almost? I mean, what's going on with your twenty
twelve niece on frontier?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Here?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
This I'm reading this, This doesn't look good. Tell us
the story.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Well, I got it back from having the engine read
remaining fectured at Thunderbolt transmission and came up with a
hard start roughdal throwing a few codes. The main one
that's concerned is the P zero three, three five. The
others are chassis codes, right, So took it back to them.
(18:19):
They worked on it for three weeks, couldn't figure it out.
They checked wire harness and all that, and it supposedly
came back right. So whenever I got I got it back,
I went and looked at it. Still tried changing sensors
with OEM brand parts, because if you don't change both
of them at the same time, sometimes it the ECM
(18:39):
compares the signal from both of them, so through cause
the code. But nothing there no luck them changing lass.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Is this so just a couple of things. First of all,
the chassis codes? Was it an eleven thirty, eleven thirty
two and something sequential along those lines?
Speaker 5 (18:59):
There was a eleven thirty see eleven thirty two and
a C eleven sixty three.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All right, disregard those for the moment. As I'm sure
you are, go go take a look at Nissan bulletin.
Nissan's got a couple of bulletins out on this. The
last one I saw was NTB sixteen Dish one one
six dated November of sixteen, and they talk about how
a Nissan of this generation will set a fault code
(19:28):
see eleven thirty and so on when it has a
ratic engine signal. Okay, okay, so so let's just take
that off the plate for the moment. All right, what
sort of scan tool do I have access to?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
The Enova OBED two scanner that look hooks up to
a phone on the app okayer appone.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So the downside to this is it's gonna be pretty slow,
all right, because it's got a it's an interface that's
probably a Bluetooth connection to you your phone. I'm guessing
it is, yes, sir, So the data being buffered isn't
going to be great when you if you clear this
fault code? How long before it comes back the.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Moment you start to crank you turn the key again?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, So, so will it come back with just turning
the key to the on position or will it come
back it doesn't come back until.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
You crank it the moment you start to crank it.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Okay, So I think you've got an issue with the flywheel.
Just from my seat. Here the fly with the crank
centers in the back of the block.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Correct, correct, it is, Yes, it's it's a passenger side.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right, and it's triggered off the flywheel. And I'm wondering
if when the machine shop rebuilt it, did we did
we grab something from a different Nissan. Nissans get funny,
they they you know, I've seen twelves and thirteen's be different.
I don't know that for effect on yours. I'd have
to go look at part numbers, but I'm thinking you've
(21:04):
got an incorrect part back on your vehicle. What I
what I'd love to do, if I had access to it,
is to put a lab scope on this. And I'm
not I'm not a lab scope guy. I don't go
I don't go running towards a lab scope for every
possible thing. But I'd love to see electrically what this
signal is putting out. And I bet it's I bet
it's putting out garbage. I bet it's putting out an
(21:25):
incorrect signal. And what I would really like to do is,
let me ask you this question, Tyler, do you understand
what I'm saying when I'm with a lab scope and
looking at the crank signal.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yes, it compares the electrical signals and shows.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, so so it Yeah, if we had if we
had a bicycle, two sprockets, big Sprocket, little Sprocket, and
there was a dot at you know, a matching dot
on each sprocket, and is as as the small Sprocket
went around twice the little the big Sprocket would go
around once, okay, and we would see that relationship. And
(22:01):
if we had the ability to put a sensor on it,
we would see how it came up. It came up,
it came up, and they would they would index to
each other. You could actually overlay the signals and see
the beginning of and the end of each signal and
know that they're in alignment. All right. I'd love to
see that. I'd love to see a cam crank labscope
sink test here. And you know what am I seeing?
(22:23):
Because the fact that this the fact that this comes
up right away as soon as you start to crank it,
but it doesn't come up when you just turn the
key on, tells me this is not a circuit fault.
This is a performance fault. You get it?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I do yes.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So, in other words, if you took the crank sensor
and unplugged it and turn the key to the omposition.
Depending on how the software interprets it, in most cases,
it will set a crank sensor circuit fault, not a
performance fault, right it It sets a performance fault in
the sense that it's it's plugged in, it can see
(23:04):
the signal go down. If it's monitoring that voltage in
voltage out, it's seeing signal go in. It's not seeing
a correct change. It's not seeing the voltage on that
line being pulled down as it would expect it to do.
So it's saying, hey, P zero three thirty five, it's
applausibility error. It doesn't make any sense to the computer.
So I this is a This is a real good
(23:26):
example of why I would use a scope. And the
scope is usually about four or five on my list
of when I pull it out, there's a you know,
there's a few things I look at first, but I
think in this case, I just want to cut to
the chase, the fact that it wasn't there before they
did the engine, because once you clear up that three
thirty five, you're going to find I'm willing to bet
that the C eleven thirty clears up too, and the
(23:48):
rest of them. Okay, all right, does your that This
is where it gets a little dicey. If we had
a scan tool. If you had a scan tool that
connected right to the OBED two port and it wasn't
that data buffer, you might be able to see cranking
r pm because it would be fast enough. It would
be a direct connection. You might be able to see
(24:10):
cranking r PM while you're cranking it if you disabled
fuel for example, all right, and you could see you know,
crank signal out that way. But I think the only
hope we've got here is we've got to We've got
to look at this as far as do a cam
crank sync, make sure that the engine is and and
for that matter, is the engine mechanically in time? Can
(24:32):
we can we check the mechanical timing. But to do that,
we've got to take the front cover off.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Right, the timing chains on the front y. It's dual
overhead cam with a crank chef in the bottom right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
So you know, this is an example. We're going and
doing cam crank sinc. With a labscope is going to
give us an electrical picture of what kind of mechanical
condition we're in? Does the does the trans shop? And
I have to ask why is a trans shop rebuilding
an engine?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
They do transmissions and motors, and they started with motors,
move to transitions, but they keep.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
It just it just sounds funny, right, it's just you know,
transmiss Yeah, I get it, But I would ask them,
can they can they put a labpscope on this? Can
they do a cam crank sync? Can they show you
an electronic picture of the bicycle sprockets and that they're
in time right? And then and then as they rev
it up, you know, go for a ride. As you
(25:29):
rev it up, you should see them maintain that that
that balance, that synchronization. If this vehicle has variable valve
timing on it, you will see the cam you know,
go forward, go backwards accordingly. Although I don't think a
twelve had vv T. I don't think it was in
the cards for that generation.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
So I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, it's it's a pretty basic This is a pretty
basic bread and butter vehicle. So all right, kiddo, But
that's that's where I would go. And you know, if
you need more, you know, where to find me.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
All right, absolutely, all right, tell you very much.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You're very welcome. You'd be well to emphasize the point.
The problem with a repair like this is it ran
good until it spun. The bearing in the engine failed
and now it doesn't. So and the shop tyler said
had gone through and don somewhat inspecting of wiring. Things
are connected correctly, and everything's backward it's supposed to be.
(26:25):
It's time to do some basic testing. And that's why
I say it's time for a labscope. I want to
see crank signal. I want to see crank signal in
relation to the CAM position sensor in relation to the
CAM signal. I'm looking for an anomaly, something that's out
of place. The trigger device. All right, everybody talks about
(26:45):
the crank sensor. What triggers the sensor. The crank sensor
reads and creates a signal based on how its stimulated
off of either the flywheel in some cases, in this case,
the crank shaft. But there is a tone ring on
the crank shaft that is indexed and it might have
(27:06):
it might have thirty right angle or thirty right angle snubs.
Think of the top of a castle, right how the
top of a castle looks. It's a square top, square top,
square top. It might have thirty square tops, evenly spaced,
except for one, and that one is as the index,
so it means something to the crank position censored to
(27:27):
the engine computer. It's an index showing relationship of number
one cylinder or number three or however they're going to
index it. Every manufacturer seems to do it a little different.
But my point becomes the only way you're going to
see that short of taking the engine apart, and you
might either taking the engine apart anyway, is to use
a labscope and to look at that signal and how
does that signal index off of number one cylinder firing
(27:50):
in relation to the cam, in relation to the cam
and i'm sorry, in relation to the crank and does
everything line up? And that's where I think Tyler has
to go on this enough. If this is not external wiring,
and it's not a PCM, and I'm not saying it
is or isn't. I'm just saying we've got to go
start testing. Here's a perfect example of looking at tell
(28:10):
me what's good, I'll tell you what's bad. Let's go
look at individual components and test them, take them out
of the car in our mind and test them. And
the best way we're going to do that is with
a lab scope. Now, the good news is there are
easy ways to do this, depending upon what this shop has.
And I'm not sure that the engine shop is going
to have this, but Tyler, if you're still listening, if
(28:32):
they find certain scan tools, snap On, the snap On Triton,
the snap On Zeus Plus both have labscopes. Both have
known waveform patterns in them, so you'll see a good
waveform pattern. They'll even tell you how to hook up
all right, so they don't have to necessarily be a
great scope person. If they know how to hook up
(28:52):
basic meter leads and understand the theory behind it, they'll
be able to do this. There are others. There's Peko,
There's you know, there's other Launch makes a lab scope.
There's all sorts of different ways to look at this,
all different manufacturers. But the thing I like about snap
On is that it gives you a known good picture.
Of course, you can always go look at images also,
(29:12):
but Tyler, if you're learning on this one, this isn't
the car to learn on. You've got to go find
somebody that's labscope capable. But those are the reasons and
some of the things and some of the options you have.
So I bet this is going to come out to
be if this is internal, there's something about that crank,
either the part, the way it was assembled, the way
it was indexed. Something. But a labscope check, a cam
(29:35):
crank sink check will tell us and get to the
bottom of this once and for all. I'm not on
an ad in the card. Doctor. Let's pull over, take
a pause. We're back right after this. Well, we're back.
Let's go. Let's go to the sunny state of Florida
before they melt, because I bet it's warm down there.
Let's go talk to Tom and Lakeland, Florida. Tom, you're
on with the car doctor, sir, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I have a two thousand and five Chrysler Sea Bring convertible.
It has maybe seven thousand miles. I've owned it for
four years and I've used Mobile one oil with it,
and I'm thinking of switching to AMS oil, which is
(30:17):
a little bit more pricey, Right, is worth? Is it
worth the investment?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Probably not? Listen, ams Oil's good oil, all right. I
have no doubt in my mind, I have no knocks
against amz oil. I often wonder why amz oil didn't
make it bigger, and I always think it's distribution and
how they how they came to market, or how they
come to market. Mobile one's good oil to me. Mobile
one's a lot easier to get than AMS oil, you know, especially,
(30:45):
I'll tell you what. From a New Jersey point of view,
Mobile one's easier to get than amzoil. I can pick
up the phone and have Mobile one delivered. I can't
do that with ams oil. Do I think?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I do?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I think amz oil is a better oil for a
two thousand and five Chrysler. No, I don't think it's
gonna matter a whole heck of a lot, right, I
think if what you've been doing is working, car doesn't
burn any oil, the engines quiet, the oil comes out,
you know, relatively quick and clean, no sludge build up.
It's working. Why change it, right? You know, it's that simple,
(31:18):
you know, just just stay on top of your oil
changes and you'll be just fine, now, you know. Having
said that, there are situations where I would use amazoil
over anything else. They've got some really great products there.
Gear oil, I think is really superb. As a matter
of fact, I ran Amzoyil gear oil in my first
hot rod in the rear end of fifty seven old's
(31:40):
rear with forty eight zuomis, and you know that rear
never failed where everybody else was having their issues, that
that rear never failed. And I really believe it was
part of the lubrication that I had in it, because
the amazoil could take a beating. So there's a time
and a place. But you've started with mobile one, it's
readily available to you. I don't see the point in
changing now.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Would the filter be a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What kind of filter are you using?
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I'm using?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, you know, good quality frame that you know there's
there's there's less expensive versions of FRAM, there's the Hype,
there's the HP version of FRAM. So there are better
filters out there. Me personally, I like a Wix. I
like I like Wix's uh performance version of a filter.
They make a great filter, and I you know, I
(32:27):
would have no qualms with that. There's you know, it's
funny we as a society, we seem there's cheap versions
of filters, there's expensive versions of filters. There's a lot
of good filters out there. Honestly, I think I think
most of the filters are made by one of three
companies and then market it under their own name. So
I think to answer the question, just use the better
(32:47):
version of whatever's readily available and quickly available, and I
think you'll be just fine. So you know that, coupled
along with your mobile, I will be the way to go.
All right, I appreciate the call.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'm Ron an Any and the car Doctor. We're back
right after this. This is my least favorite part of
the show and my favorite part of the show. My
least favorite because well it's coming to an end, but
my most favorite because that means when this one ends,
another hour begins somewhere out in the radio universe. So
but in any event, I want to thank everybody that
(33:20):
took part in today's show. It was great to talk
to everybody. I especially enjoyed Tom and Florida, and for
Tyler in Texas, I hope that you know, he's able
to find somebody with a labscope to get a look
at what I was talking about and see what that
crank sensor is doing, and you know, we can kind
of go from there. But for everybody else, I just
want to remind you real quick one last time. As always,
(33:40):
I'm Ron and Andy and the Car Doctor. Till the
next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See you
Host
Ron Ananian
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