Code P0203, winter-readiness, and two electrical gremlins. Ron opens with a 2015 Jeep Wrangler 3.6L that set P0303 (misfire) and P0203 (injector circuit). He walks through smart diagnostics: verify injector resistance against known-good cylinders, check the circuit from PCM to injector, then confirm with a scope or a swap test—because a component can ohm “good” cold and fail hot. From there, he pivots to fall-and-winter driving prep in response to an RV-fire traffic shutdown: fuel up, pack essentials, and plan for long, no-exit stretches. Classic-iron detour: documenting a ’67 Chevy II Nova (VIN/cowl tag and build sheet beat a window sticker). Then it’s a ’96 Olds Aurora with a fickle charge (don’t trust the dash—test the alternator feed and wiring) and an ’09 Escape no-crank likely flirting with anti-theft/steering-lock issues.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation Live every Saturday from two to four
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zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five five five
(00:25):
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and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your engines. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to talk to you about a bunch of
things today. I want to talk to you about a
P zero two of three, just what it means. I
want to talk to you a little bit about full
driving into winter. Are you ready for the road? What
do you have in the car, And maybe we'll talk
a little bit about what went on in the shop
this week. But it's it's it's a funny time in
the repair shop business right now. It's it's on the
quieter side. And I you know, we go through this
(01:12):
every year and it's interesting to see how it unfolds
and what exactly happens. I want to talk about P
zero two o three. P zero two oh three is
a fault card. Well, I'll tell you the whole story.
We had a twenty fifteen Jeep Wrangler V six to
three point six came into the shop this week and
it had a little bit of a misfire going on.
(01:36):
Reported P zero three to oh three cylinder misfire P
zero two oh three injector circuit fault. Now, if you notice, right,
we've always talked about misfires, you and I. We've always
said when an engine runs rough, when it doesn't seem
to be smooth at idle and the check engine light
comes on and the light starts to flash, that we
(01:59):
always our brain always kicks in. Okay, it's got a misfire.
It needs a spark plug. Right, I don't know, we're
just you know, they did a real great job of
beating that into our heads for the past sixty or
seventy years and then modern day vehicles came along, and
now it's different, and it's been that way for a while.
It's been different for a while. So we're gonna look
(02:21):
at P zero two OHO three. We're going to talk
about that. They talk about it as an injector driver's
circuit fault or an injector's circuit fault. They don't say driver,
they don't say injector, They say the circuit. That means
anything in the circuit. Right, If this were your house
and we're looking for a problem with the lamp, what's
in the lamp circuit? The bulb, the switch that turns
(02:43):
the lamp on and off, the physical wiring that goes
from the wall socket to the lamp that goes to
the bulb, and the wiring behind the wall that goes
downstairs into the basement of the fuse box and goes,
you know, to feed the circuit to come up off
the breaker or the fuse if it's an older home.
So it's a circuit fault. It's not saying it's any
(03:06):
one particular component, but it's also saying that you have
to test everything and look at everything. An injector's circuit
fault is a pretty easy code to diagnose. It really is.
All right, we're going to go through and of course
we're going to look at the injector. Now, getting to
the injector might be a little bit of a chore.
In the case of this wrangler, Number three sits on
(03:27):
the passenger side in between one and five, and it
was a simple process to get to the injector, connector
unplug it. And we read about fourteen omns of resistance
well the circuit and I know this just from having
done these before. Those injectors typically read between ten, ten
(03:48):
and sixteen homs of resistance. So I'm kind of in
the sweet spot. I'm okay, I've got a good number.
What do you do if you don't know the number?
I heard that question. I've heard that a couple of times.
We've been talking about circuit performance faults with all of
you out on Facebook and some of the questions coming
up off the YouTube channel and stuff. And you know,
(04:09):
what are you going to do when you're looking for
a number and you don't have any service information. Well,
you've got six injectors, Go look at one of the
other five, Go look at one that's running correctly. And
if cylinder one is fourteen homes and cylinder five is
fourteen homes, and then cylinder three at fourteen homes is
probably a safe bet. Now, the one thing that a
resistance check doesn't do is it won't show you how
(04:32):
well that's going to work underload, And it won't show
you how well that component, light bulb, injector or anything
in between is going to work as it's as it
as its temperature varies. So you know, our resistance check
is a good place to start. And it's surely something
great you can do at home if you're do it
yourself or but the best way to look at it injector,
(04:53):
just for the record, put it up on a labscope
and look at the trace, follow the heart rate, see
where it goes. Does it match the the other five?
Does it match the other two? Does it match one
of them? If you stack them up and look at
them top the bottom. This injector measured good. I pulled
that on a Chrysler. You have to pull out the
ASD relay, the automatic shutdown relay, and I checked the
(05:15):
circuit live. I'm sorry. I checked the circuit from termination
at the PCM out to the injector to make sure
that it read the same. And it did. It read
fourteen point three homes. It went up three tenths of
an home. Nothing nothing, terminal, no pun intended. So do
I have a bad computer? I could. It's possible, right,
(05:37):
the driver, the piece inside the computer, the electronic component
that actually switches that injector on and off. Sure that
could be battered and beaten. Ten years old, one hundred
and sixty thousand miles. Anything's possible. But how do I know?
Pretty simple? All right, you're ready, Why don't we just
swap the injectors? You know, when it's an emission misfire?
(06:00):
What do I tell you to do? Move the plug,
move the coil, keep track of where it goes. Does
it follow that particular fault? Does it follow and go
where it's where it's gonna go. Well, let's move the injector.
We move the injector to cylinder one. My problem now,
I set a P zero two oh one. Diagnosis confirmed.
I've got a bad injector that measured correctly as far
(06:24):
as resistance. But once the vehicle warmed up, once that
injector got warm and started to work, it started to
break down. P zero two oh three P zero two
oh circuit performance faults. They're becoming more common. We're seeing
more of them. It doesn't necessarily meet a bad injector.
Most of the time it does. I will give you that,
(06:46):
But you do have to look around for other things.
Because one of the items that we always look for
on an older vehicle with higher mileage, especially on the jeeps,
where the wiring harness runs up and around the intake plant,
is we're looking for critters, right, We're looking for damage
to the wiring harness. Did somebody nibble on something and
they do? Right, So we want to make sure all
these things are there. But don't be afraid of it.
(07:07):
And that's my point, and that's why I wanted to
talk to you about it today. You know, it's just
a component, it's just an electrical device. It's just it's
you would test it the way you test anything else.
How does it work? Put it on the bench and
test it. How are you going to test that particular component?
Put a set of injectors in it? All right? At
my suggestion, the customer agreed, higher mileage, older vehicle, I
(07:30):
prefer a set of injectors because if one's going bad
at ten years old, one hundred and sixty. When's the
next one? And what I have to take apart? And
you know, it's a little more cost effective and it's
best done in sets in my opinion. But bottom line p.
Zero two of three is not so intermountable. It's not
so insurmountable. Proper proper addiction really helps. I'm probably thinking
(07:56):
about I'm probably a little stuttering and a little floundering
because I'm thinking about poor Tom Ray last night, which
I want to get in after we pull over. Tom
called me last night. He was traveling north in New
Jersey on route to eighty seven, and he said, I
don't know, I may not make it home in time
for the show tomorrow because there's big black smoke billowing
off the highway. And I talked to him again this morning.
(08:19):
And when do you hear what was on fire in Mahwah,
New Jersey? When we come back right after this eight
five five five six zero nine nine zero zero, the
car doctor is going to return. Don't go anywhere, you
know what? Before we go to Tom, keep you in
suspense a little longer. Let's go to Chris in Florida.
I want to keep Chris waiting. It's long distance. So Chris,
(08:41):
how are you today, my friend? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Pretty good? How are you all right?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
How can I help?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Nineteen sixty seven Chevy two Nova Ben Decode and the
Protecto plate and the uh have the windowsticker. I was
just curious which one was the most relevant because from
the protective place, it looks as though I have a
famous six car, and but there's a difference on the
window sticker. When it comes to the engine, I.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Would go by. I would go by the cowl tag
Vin Vin and cowl tag overright windows sticker. And the
only reason I say that is because it's easier for
somebody to manufacture and print a window sticker than it
is a cow tag and e vent Although it can
be done, it's not It's not impossible.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
That's what I thought. And it was one on a car.
The family had all the paperwork, so the Protecto plate
and everything is pristine.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So did they have a build sheet?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I found a couple of build sheets, but they're
only the paint codes interior and exterior.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So I if the build if the build sheets in
the car, it's under the back seat, under the back
seat by the wheelhouse and it's not there. Right.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I found both of those. I found two of them,
one under the front seat, one behind in the back seat.
But they only cover the interior paint codes and the
cloth colors and all that interior exterior.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right. Well you get now, now, now to that point,
you could take that build sheet that's telling you interior
colors and seats and so forth, and you could you
could decode the cowl tag and see if the information matches,
and it should it does. Okay then, but.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Okay, so I did all the cow tag also and
have that right, but it doesn't really show all the
dates match for being a famous six car. The Protecto plate.
The engine code on the Protecto plate is z I,
and I traced that back to being a ALL seventy nine.
(10:46):
So but then on like I said, the window sticker,
there's the serial numbers are the same on the on
both documents, on all the documents, it's just that the
engines or vary. But I was going to go buy
the Protecto plate because I thought that that had it
more relevant.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
So, and I know what you're looking for, because if
it's an L seventy nine, it's obviously worth a lot
of money. Yeah, how many protective plates do you have?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Just one? It came with the original one that they
made from the factory, right, and is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It it matches the owner's manual looks like older writing.
I mean something this old is going to be kind
of weathered. It's fifty right, it's made a metal.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They impress those and I have that plate plus the
copy version where they overlaid it and show you it
because it's in reverse when it's on the the you
know the use of metal type of.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right on the on the imprinter. Sure, yes, so you know.
I think the answer to the question is there are
there are Obviously there are guys out there that are
you know, proclaimed experts and sources. You know what, you
know what you're looking for, and it won't matter what
you and I say. It's going to matter or what
they say and authenticate the car as right. So what
(12:03):
what engines in the car? Now?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Three twenty seven? This is where the twist is. It's
got to see epoch in it, and it's got l
seventy nine pistons in it. Because I put a camera
in there and looked at the uh the number on
top of the piston and it's three eight six six
nine five four, right, which is I don't have the
document on me, right right, yeah, right, that's the old
(12:29):
TRW pop up pistons. So it there's no way to
tell from what I read with a CE motor because
that's either a warny replacement or parts department engine.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And I would I would, I would bet it's a
you know, it's a warranty replacement because when those cars
first came out, nobody knew how to drive them, and
they were blowing engines. It wouldn't be the most impossible
thing to ruin an engine in one of those because
of the horsepower they put out. So I think it
really comes back to number one. Is it an L
(13:06):
seventy nine car?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
All right?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
If it's a real else, If it's a real L
seventy nine car and it's got a replacement engine in
it for whatever reason, warranty, parts department, you know, we
just wanted to change the engine, et cetera. Great, it's
still an original L seventy nine chassis. It's still worth
it's still worth some money. It's not worth what an
L seventy nine complete would be, obviously, but it's worth something.
(13:29):
The other the other side of the coin here, Chris,
unless you are you planning to sell it or do
you want to just drive it? No, I'm gonna keep it,
dri drive it, you know what, because there's there's too
many cars today that nobody really knows what they are
and nobody appreciates them for what they are, and they
just they put them in the garage. Oh, I'm saving it,
saving it for what, you know, because when you and
(13:50):
I are gone, nobody's gonna want these things. Nobody understands
the history behind them. And it's it's a shame, it
really is, you know, and it's it's just it's it's
good dinner table conversation too.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I think it's an L seventy nine, but it could
be this, and it could be that, you know, it's
I would be more stoked that it's an original L
seventy nine car. The engine's gone, you can't do anything
about it, but you actually do own a piece of
history there.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Right, Yeah, And we're going to enjoy it. We're just
trying to, you know, it's fun to decipher everything, right,
figure it all out.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I remember in high school my brother had We didn't
even realize what it was but he had a sixty
five Chevelle SS three ninety six car by the time
he got it in the early seventies. It had a
two eighty three in it because the original big block
was gone, but it also had the tack on the
console and it was a four speed car. And yeah,
(14:43):
you know what it was, right, it was a three
ninety six, three seventy five car. It was one of
the original you know, was that an L seventy eight?
That was an L seventy eight car? I thought, I
can't sure, I can't, Yeah, I can't. I can't remember
the number, but I know I know any soul that
years later, and we just sold it as a small
block chevel didn't, you know. It just didn't mean anything.
(15:05):
But that was a piece of automotive history. I think
those are the cars. The first year sixty five, they
produced less than two hundred of them or something, so
it was just a it was just a rear, just
a weird rear option car, so low numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I have a seventy two also that I built. I drove.
That was the first car I drove cross country when
I came in the Air Force, right, I drove from
Pennsylvania to Florida.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, you can't do that. You can't do that today, right,
you know. Well, and the problem is, you know the
problem with all the older cars. It's not that they
won't go the distance, but if they break, you can't
buy parts in the middle of Pennsylvania anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You can't get a water pump in Ohio, you can't
get you know, it's it's very different. I went to
college in a seventy two Monte Carlo all day long
for four years, and you know, I broke down on
the side of the Garden State Park walk into Newark
and get radiator hoses and belts and things that had
fallen off.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And so on and so on.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And you could do that today. Yeah, we'll have that
for you in three days. Great.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Got to order it online.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Got to order it online. It's it's everything that everything's
a bigger you know, depots and warehouses and you know,
just a very just a very different time. But then
again we're spoiled because look at how the car is today.
They just kind of rock it along and it's it's
rare when one of them does break and leave you stranded. Souh,
But I get it. I get it. Hey, listen, enjoy
the car. What color is it?
Speaker 5 (16:31):
It is?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Deep water blue?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oof, very pretty, very pretty. A friend of mine in
high school had a sixty six Novid two and Alan
storms with a storm and we called it the storm
and six. He had a six in it, and I
bet he wishes he still had that today too, anyway,
So a pleasure, Chris. Enjoy the car, all right, and
(16:54):
if you, if you, if you, if you find out
more about it, give us a call. We're always curious
about where these cars aren't what they really become. So
all right, be well, you're very welcome, sir. Yes, sir.
Having a documented car like that, just for the record,
it's exciting. It's different. It's a piece of history. It's
enough just to get to own a sixty seven Chevy Nova,
(17:15):
but to own a sixty seven Chevy Nova L seventy nine.
I should have asked Chris, he could have verified this.
I think it was a three twenty seven three point
fifty horse car, and it was very rare and very
very much sought after then as it is today. Hey,
five point five five six zero nine nine zero zero,
run a ding in the car, doctor. I am back
right after this. Hey, let's uh real quick, Tom, can
(17:40):
we tell the story in two minutes? Tom Ray? On
the on the on the I think so two eighty seven.
So here's my roving reporter, Tom Ray. The third off
and imitated, never duplicated the woman only not a phony,
no baloni. What happened on the road yesterday? Tom?
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Well, I was on a I was at one of
my client stations, got on I eighty seven north and
this is an area it's about six miles from New
York New Jersey border, and traffic just came to a
screeching halt and there's this big black smoke cloud up ahead,
and we're just sitting there and sitting there and cop
cars and ambulances and everything else flying up the side
(18:14):
of the road. And eventually, about a half an hour later,
we finally got up there and it was an RV.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Wow, there was only about a quarter of it left.
It was burned all the way down to the frame.
There's a lot, there's a lot in an RV that'll burn.
An RV goes out, it's no wonder. It was so
much smoke, it was like it's worse.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Than the house.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
They had to close the highway they had to close
the highway later to get it out of there. It
was off to the side of the road, but they
had to close it to get it out of there. So, uh,
it was a it was an interesting, interesting trip.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
When you told me this story, Tom, it made me
think and say to myself, we're into fall, we're going
to get into winter weather. Just as a reminder for everyone,
if you were low on fumes, low on guess you
would have been running on fumes. You might not have
made it. That's true.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
And it's it's actually funny because I did stop at
a gas station on my way out there and I
said something just said to me, you know, you don't
need it, but go ahead and top off the tank.
And you know, instead of just a bag of chips,
why don't you get something a little more substantial and
grab a soda while you're at it. And it's a
good thing I did because I got to eat supper
in the car.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
And it was great.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So and the road, as I always say, is a
very unforgiving place. But we just want to remind everybody
with the fall in the winter, you know, if it's summer,
maybe you're going to get out of the car and
sit and wait for the traffic to dissipate. But yeah,
when it's cold, when it's rainy, when it's bad weather,
you're stuck in the car, make sure it's got gas.
Make sure you've made a pit stop as well as
for the car if you can when you have to,
(19:41):
and don't count on things working quite right, especially as
winter weather approaches. So just and I should.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Add that in this strutch of the road, you have
to go about five miles before you find an exit
because the next next exit is Malwah. Then you hit
the New York New Jersey state line, and nowhere in
that median is there a turnaround.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
For the cops.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
So it's not like you could just slip into the
other lane and go the opposite direction. There's nowhere to go.
It's on guardrail on that.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Side, right, So you sit there. What are you gonna do?
You sit there? And I have to point out RVs
are probably the only thing worse than an RV fire
is an EV fire, because when the evs go And
when I called you yesterday and you told me about
the smoke, I said, I wonder if that is an
EV to myself. But the issue with an RV is
it's got everything that a house has in it, plus
(20:30):
gasoline plus chemical plus, so.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
It's got insulation, it's got two by fours, it's got
the kitchen table, it's got stoves, it's probably got propane
tanks attached to it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Right, So it's a big kaboom. But well, we're glad
you're safe, and we appreciate you being out there and
letting us know what's going on. So just a little
reminder for everybody. Let's open the phones up. Let's go
to Elmer in Wisconsin, ninety six old. See what's going
on here? Elmer, Welcome to the car doctor, sir, how
can I help?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Thank you? I have a ninety six Ozobila Aurora and
he's got an electrical problem. I've had it in a
shop for a couple of years and they got stumped
with They thought they had it fixed, and it was
getting courage. You could see it on the information that
there had vote fourteen fifteen votes. Then all of a
sudden it would go down to eleven ten, and then
the colors run crafty and they couldn't get it to charge,
and they changed the austin three times, and they say
(21:20):
it's charging adultator, but it's not coming through getting to
the battery, so I don't know where where the voters
regulator is at.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well, the vote the voltage regulator is built into the alternator.
All right, it's all part and parcel. So having said that, okay,
I remember the olds Auroras. As a matter of fact, Lou,
my former office manager, had a ninety six Aurora, and
I went through a lot with this car, more than
(21:48):
I want to remember. And I remember we had an
alternator charging system issue way back when. I mean we're
talking thirty years ago, twenty five years ago, when Lou
had it and it turned out that diagnosed it as
a bad alternator, put a replacement on, had a similar situation.
Put another replacement on, had a similar situation, and I said,
(22:08):
wait a minute, something's not making sense here. Now. One
of the things that you have to know is the
way this system works. The alternator is fed roughly five
volts sometimes a little more from the main engine, from
the powertrain control module, from the PCM. So one of
the first things you want to check is does it
(22:30):
have five vaults coming out of the PCM. If it
has if it has five volts coming out of the
PCM if it's got battery hot at the battery the
heavy red wire, all right, that shows I've got connection
to the battery if it's got and obviously it has
to be grounded. Okay. Next My next step is I'm
(22:51):
going to take a battery. I'm going to take a
test light battery hot, and I am going to apply
that voltage because that's that's going to drop across the bulb,
all right, and I am gonna I am going to
put that too to the red wire. Where the red
wire comes at the alternator. Does the alternator start to charge?
(23:13):
If the alternator charges, then my problem is elsewhere if
the alternator doesn't. What I ended up having to do
is I had to find a different supplier. They there's
something particular about that generation alternator. Those vehicles that I
don't know that and I don't want to say they're
all bad. I just I questioned the rebuilding carrier. I
(23:35):
just remember, you know you're striking a nerve here, Elmurra.
I remember that car from twenty five years ago, and
it we ended up with a different brand of alternator
and the problem went away. But you just have to
you know, there's four wires that come out to that alternator,
the heavy red, the light red, the blue, and I
think it was yellow or gray gray at the connector plug.
(23:58):
You know, I want to know, I want to know.
I want to do my pin test there.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
What do I have?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What can I check? All right? The voltage?
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Thing that did happen?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
One thing that did happen at the connector plug. Those
wires are one of them broke. They broke and I
tried to put them back together and it was very
thin wire. So I'm wondering whether those were three wires
maybe a connect connected well.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, are they connected? Well? Are they connected to the
right terminal?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I thought I had my color you know, connected up,
but it was it was not clear.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So first yeah, first, first first things first is let's well,
went and bought.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
A new connector from GM and it wasn't the same.
It's a bigger wire than it was the wireless on there.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Welcome to order repair common, So it.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Made it real difficult to try and mess those wires up. Right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, it's it's it's just the way they do it.
They make it a generic, bigger plug, bigger wire. We
that generally happens. I would say eighty percent of the time.
But what you want to do is get a wiring
diagram and break out. You know, does the red wire
go to the L terminal and so on? Do we
have proper control? There's ways to verify that we've got
(25:13):
the wires, choices, wires in the right places. And if
we do, then you've got a circuit. Test it the
way I'm describing it, don't be surprised if you have
to try a different brand of alternator. But now that
you tell me that, I'm going to say, make sure
your wire's in the right spot before you go any further.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
What about the power wire that goes from the alternator
back to the battery. Is there be a problem in that?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
There could? But do you have you know, if the
battery's got fourteen or twelve and a half volts in
it and you measure twelve and a half volts at
the alternator, then you're good right.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Well, after you drive it a while, the votes, like
I said, go down on the indicator on the information panel.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's shows you how many votes is run.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
It okay, but all of a sudden that goes down.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, and I'm not doubting that. I'm not doubting that
the is losing voltage. All right, but at the moment
of that failure, what does it show at the alternator itself?
But but right, since the alternator is low on charge, okay,
(26:16):
or since the battery is low on charge, you're gonna
probably read the same thing once you do this. You
got a cigarette lighter in the car, Yeah, why don't
you rig up a vault meter to a cigarette lighter adapter.
Forget the dashboard, forget forget the car, take the car
out of the equation. Right, cigarette lighters a straight shot
back to a fuse. If your volt if your voltage
(26:38):
there matches the vehicle. Now you've got something I would
consider accurate, not computer buffered, to tell you what's going on,
and start to look at that. All right, all right,
but first things first, you've got to fix and verify
you're wiring at the plug, and then you call me back.
All right, kiddo, all right, good enough, alrighty you let
me know, Yes, sir, you're very welcome. Eight five five
(26:58):
five six zero nine nine zero zero running in the card. Doctor,
I'll be back right after the stunk away. Hey, let's
go to Glenn and Tennessee. Glenn.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
You're there, sir, Yes, I am. How you doing good?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Shir tell me your story.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Okay. So I got a two thousand and nine FOURD escape.
About six months ago. I started having issues with the
ignition switch. So when I put the ignition the key
into the ignition switch, I had problems to the engine
turning over. So I've done some research on it and
found out that it could possibly be the ignition switch
(27:33):
itself inside the steering column. So I ordered a switch.
It was an OEM replacement. I put the switch in.
It never fixed the problem, and from that point on
it just seemed like it's gotten worse. I can do
my remote start on it. It's fine. From the remote key,
I can do the remote switch. It works fine. But
(27:56):
when I put the key in and try to turn
it over a lot of times just and turnover, it binds.
It doesn't bind up. It turns freely. But but when
I get when I get to the stopping point where
it should be cranking over, the engine does nothing. The
lights are on the dash, but the engine doesn't crank over.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, and this is different than what it was prior
to you changing the ignition switch.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
No, it's actually exactly the same. It just seems that
it doesn't start more times than it than it did before.
It's gotten worse.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Okay, but the cluster, the cluster is lit up.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, all right it is.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Do you have a scan tool?
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I do?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
All right? When the key is in that on position
and then you go to crank right, look on you Now,
I'm not talking about something OBD two. Do you have
a Do you have something that'll go year make model?
I do not.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I just got to standard OBD.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Okay. You know what I was going to do is
take it down the path of can we see you know,
vehicle manufacturer. I don't believe it's going to be there
in OBD two. A vehicle manufacturer would give us the
ability to see key position. And I'd be curious to
know does does the vehicle? Does the PCM recognize key position?
(29:19):
All right?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And what I'm thinking about is if the lock cylinder
is turning? Okay, I want to know do you have
an anti theft event? Is the first thought that comes
to my mind. All right. You know, if you look
on your dashboard, you've got that little plastic bubble with
the red light that blinks.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
There's a there's a lock on it, there's a lock
that comes up on it, right.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Does it Does it change when there's a problem, Remember
what O nine was like. But I thought that it
blinks steady, and then if it saw an anti theft moment,
it will blink fast or change how fast it blinks
or something. I just want to verify that I don't
have an anti theft event going on here, all right,
because what you're describing to me is that. The other
(30:04):
thing I want to mention is you're aware, but I
think you're past this. But I just want to mention
there is a bulletin out there that talks about changing
the steering lock module, the entire module assembly bulletin number
nine Dash nineteen Dash fifteen, very the the the late eights,
(30:25):
because watch where you are, Glenn, the late O eights
and the early tens and all of the nines. So
like baby, you're right in the middle of it. I'm
all ver susceptible to this bulletin. And you know, there
was a there was a procedure of does it do this?
Does it do that? Yes? Yes, yes, no, no, no,
change the lock module. At one point it was under
(30:45):
warranty but not every car got repaired like that, So
that's on my mind, all right, if if you you know,
my next step would be, because you're proficient enough to
take it apart, I would get out a wiring diagram
and I would find the wire that's telling the PCM. Hey,
I'm in crank mode. I'd put a voltmeter on it, okay,
(31:09):
because I just want to know do I have signal?
If I have signal out of the switch and I'm
not being activated out of the PCM. Now, I'm starting
to think I've got a theft issue. And where am
I going there? Everybody forgets about anti theft and and
you know what, I think it's bred into us. It's
our father's fault. They bred it into us that it's
(31:30):
always something mechanical. So all right, do those things? Yeah,
tell you what? Sit tight? Sit tight, Glenn, Sit tight,
Let me pull out. I don't want to rush you.
Sit tight. Let me pull over and take this. I'll
come back and we'll talk about it some more. I'm
running ady in the car. Doctor. I'll be back right
after this. And we are back. Glenn, you're still there, sir,
(31:51):
I am, yeah. I didn't want to cut you short.
So what we're going to say, you had a question.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
What was the recall? The bulletin number you were talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The bullet bulletin number was nine dash nineteen dash fifteen.
It's a bulletin, not a recall, and it talks about,
you know, and it questions and puts you in a
position of do you need a steering lock module? Predominantly
for vehicles that had problems with the key binding not turning.
You have to push it in to get it to go.
You know, does it was it? Was it rough? Was
(32:20):
it smooth? Et cetera.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
The only the only thing that I say is when
I try to insert it into the into the switch itself,
it's a little stubborn. Well, once it's in there and
I rotated, it seems free.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well when you say switch, let's let's let's let's clarify
our terms. All right. So, so when you're putting the
key in, you're putting the key in the lock cylinder,
just like you're putting the key in the lock cylinder
of the door, right, No different. At the end of
the lock cylinder, you're then turning the switch. Yes, okay,
(32:55):
just so we're both on the side. I like to
be clear in my relationships. So yeah, and listen, that's
not to say you don't have two problems, right, Who's
who's to say you don't have, you know, an issue
with the steering lock module and an issue with the
with the no start with the no crank. But look
at anti theft. Remember what I said. At the back
of the ignition switch, there'll be one wire that feeds
(33:17):
the PCM and says, hey, I'm in crank you know,
engage the starter. And there's a couple other things that'll
look at there. But that is a part of the
controlled area network. And one last thing the instrument cluster
is the anti theft system. So maybe looking at that anyway,
let me know what happens, Glenn, I'm running NY in
the car doctor till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive,
they're priceless. See you.
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation Live every Saturday from two to four
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zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five five five
(00:25):
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start your engines. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to talk to you about a bunch of
things today. I want to talk to you about a
P zero two of three, just what it means. I
want to talk to you a little bit about full
driving into winter. Are you ready for the road? What
do you have in the car, And maybe we'll talk
a little bit about what went on in the shop
this week. But it's it's it's a funny time in
the repair shop business right now. It's it's on the
quieter side. And I you know, we go through this
(01:12):
every year and it's interesting to see how it unfolds
and what exactly happens. I want to talk about P
zero two o three. P zero two oh three is
a fault card. Well, I'll tell you the whole story.
We had a twenty fifteen Jeep Wrangler V six to
three point six came into the shop this week and
it had a little bit of a misfire going on.
(01:36):
Reported P zero three to oh three cylinder misfire P
zero two oh three injector circuit fault. Now, if you notice, right,
we've always talked about misfires, you and I. We've always
said when an engine runs rough, when it doesn't seem
to be smooth at idle and the check engine light
comes on and the light starts to flash, that we
(01:59):
always our brain always kicks in. Okay, it's got a misfire.
It needs a spark plug. Right, I don't know, we're
just you know, they did a real great job of
beating that into our heads for the past sixty or
seventy years and then modern day vehicles came along, and
now it's different, and it's been that way for a while.
It's been different for a while. So we're gonna look
(02:21):
at P zero two OHO three. We're going to talk
about that. They talk about it as an injector driver's
circuit fault or an injector's circuit fault. They don't say driver,
they don't say injector, They say the circuit. That means
anything in the circuit. Right, If this were your house
and we're looking for a problem with the lamp, what's
in the lamp circuit? The bulb, the switch that turns
(02:43):
the lamp on and off, the physical wiring that goes
from the wall socket to the lamp that goes to
the bulb, and the wiring behind the wall that goes
downstairs into the basement of the fuse box and goes,
you know, to feed the circuit to come up off
the breaker or the fuse if it's an older home.
So it's a circuit fault. It's not saying it's any
(03:06):
one particular component, but it's also saying that you have
to test everything and look at everything. An injector's circuit
fault is a pretty easy code to diagnose. It really is.
All right, we're going to go through and of course
we're going to look at the injector. Now, getting to
the injector might be a little bit of a chore.
In the case of this wrangler, Number three sits on
(03:27):
the passenger side in between one and five, and it
was a simple process to get to the injector, connector
unplug it. And we read about fourteen omns of resistance
well the circuit and I know this just from having
done these before. Those injectors typically read between ten, ten
(03:48):
and sixteen homs of resistance. So I'm kind of in
the sweet spot. I'm okay, I've got a good number.
What do you do if you don't know the number?
I heard that question. I've heard that a couple of times.
We've been talking about circuit performance faults with all of
you out on Facebook and some of the questions coming
up off the YouTube channel and stuff. And you know,
(04:09):
what are you going to do when you're looking for
a number and you don't have any service information. Well,
you've got six injectors, Go look at one of the
other five, Go look at one that's running correctly. And
if cylinder one is fourteen homes and cylinder five is
fourteen homes, and then cylinder three at fourteen homes is
probably a safe bet. Now, the one thing that a
resistance check doesn't do is it won't show you how
(04:32):
well that's going to work underload, And it won't show
you how well that component, light bulb, injector or anything
in between is going to work as it's as it
as its temperature varies. So you know, our resistance check
is a good place to start. And it's surely something
great you can do at home if you're do it
yourself or but the best way to look at it injector,
(04:53):
just for the record, put it up on a labscope
and look at the trace, follow the heart rate, see
where it goes. Does it match the the other five?
Does it match the other two? Does it match one
of them? If you stack them up and look at
them top the bottom. This injector measured good. I pulled
that on a Chrysler. You have to pull out the
ASD relay, the automatic shutdown relay, and I checked the
(05:15):
circuit live. I'm sorry. I checked the circuit from termination
at the PCM out to the injector to make sure
that it read the same. And it did. It read
fourteen point three homes. It went up three tenths of
an home. Nothing nothing, terminal, no pun intended. So do
I have a bad computer? I could. It's possible, right,
(05:37):
the driver, the piece inside the computer, the electronic component
that actually switches that injector on and off. Sure that
could be battered and beaten. Ten years old, one hundred
and sixty thousand miles. Anything's possible. But how do I know?
Pretty simple? All right, you're ready, Why don't we just
swap the injectors? You know, when it's an emission misfire?
(06:00):
What do I tell you to do? Move the plug,
move the coil, keep track of where it goes. Does
it follow that particular fault? Does it follow and go
where it's where it's gonna go. Well, let's move the injector.
We move the injector to cylinder one. My problem now,
I set a P zero two oh one. Diagnosis confirmed.
I've got a bad injector that measured correctly as far
(06:24):
as resistance. But once the vehicle warmed up, once that
injector got warm and started to work, it started to
break down. P zero two oh three P zero two
oh circuit performance faults. They're becoming more common. We're seeing
more of them. It doesn't necessarily meet a bad injector.
Most of the time it does. I will give you that,
(06:46):
But you do have to look around for other things.
Because one of the items that we always look for
on an older vehicle with higher mileage, especially on the jeeps,
where the wiring harness runs up and around the intake plant,
is we're looking for critters, right, We're looking for damage
to the wiring harness. Did somebody nibble on something and
they do? Right, So we want to make sure all
these things are there. But don't be afraid of it.
(07:07):
And that's my point, and that's why I wanted to
talk to you about it today. You know, it's just
a component, it's just an electrical device. It's just it's
you would test it the way you test anything else.
How does it work? Put it on the bench and
test it. How are you going to test that particular component?
Put a set of injectors in it? All right? At
my suggestion, the customer agreed, higher mileage, older vehicle, I
(07:30):
prefer a set of injectors because if one's going bad
at ten years old, one hundred and sixty. When's the
next one? And what I have to take apart? And
you know, it's a little more cost effective and it's
best done in sets in my opinion. But bottom line p.
Zero two of three is not so intermountable. It's not
so insurmountable. Proper proper addiction really helps. I'm probably thinking
(07:56):
about I'm probably a little stuttering and a little floundering
because I'm thinking about poor Tom Ray last night, which
I want to get in after we pull over. Tom
called me last night. He was traveling north in New
Jersey on route to eighty seven, and he said, I
don't know, I may not make it home in time
for the show tomorrow because there's big black smoke billowing
off the highway. And I talked to him again this morning.
(08:19):
And when do you hear what was on fire in Mahwah,
New Jersey? When we come back right after this eight
five five five six zero nine nine zero zero, the
car doctor is going to return. Don't go anywhere, you
know what? Before we go to Tom, keep you in
suspense a little longer. Let's go to Chris in Florida.
I want to keep Chris waiting. It's long distance. So Chris,
(08:41):
how are you today, my friend? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Pretty good? How are you all right?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
How can I help?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Nineteen sixty seven Chevy two Nova Ben Decode and the
Protecto plate and the uh have the windowsticker. I was
just curious which one was the most relevant because from
the protective place, it looks as though I have a
famous six car, and but there's a difference on the
window sticker. When it comes to the engine, I.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Would go by. I would go by the cowl tag
Vin Vin and cowl tag overright windows sticker. And the
only reason I say that is because it's easier for
somebody to manufacture and print a window sticker than it
is a cow tag and e vent Although it can
be done, it's not It's not impossible.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
That's what I thought. And it was one on a car.
The family had all the paperwork, so the Protecto plate
and everything is pristine.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So did they have a build sheet?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I found a couple of build sheets, but they're
only the paint codes interior and exterior.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So I if the build if the build sheets in
the car, it's under the back seat, under the back
seat by the wheelhouse and it's not there. Right.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I found both of those. I found two of them,
one under the front seat, one behind in the back seat.
But they only cover the interior paint codes and the
cloth colors and all that interior exterior.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right. Well you get now, now, now to that point,
you could take that build sheet that's telling you interior
colors and seats and so forth, and you could you
could decode the cowl tag and see if the information matches,
and it should it does. Okay then, but.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Okay, so I did all the cow tag also and
have that right, but it doesn't really show all the
dates match for being a famous six car. The Protecto plate.
The engine code on the Protecto plate is z I,
and I traced that back to being a ALL seventy nine.
(10:46):
So but then on like I said, the window sticker,
there's the serial numbers are the same on the on
both documents, on all the documents, it's just that the
engines or vary. But I was going to go buy
the Protecto plate because I thought that that had it
more relevant.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
So, and I know what you're looking for, because if
it's an L seventy nine, it's obviously worth a lot
of money. Yeah, how many protective plates do you have?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Just one? It came with the original one that they
made from the factory, right, and is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It it matches the owner's manual looks like older writing.
I mean something this old is going to be kind
of weathered. It's fifty right, it's made a metal.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They impress those and I have that plate plus the
copy version where they overlaid it and show you it
because it's in reverse when it's on the the you
know the use of metal type of.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right on the on the imprinter. Sure, yes, so you know.
I think the answer to the question is there are
there are Obviously there are guys out there that are
you know, proclaimed experts and sources. You know what, you
know what you're looking for, and it won't matter what
you and I say. It's going to matter or what
they say and authenticate the car as right. So what
(12:03):
what engines in the car? Now?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Three twenty seven? This is where the twist is. It's
got to see epoch in it, and it's got l
seventy nine pistons in it. Because I put a camera
in there and looked at the uh the number on
top of the piston and it's three eight six six
nine five four, right, which is I don't have the
document on me, right right, yeah, right, that's the old
(12:29):
TRW pop up pistons. So it there's no way to
tell from what I read with a CE motor because
that's either a warny replacement or parts department engine.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And I would I would, I would bet it's a
you know, it's a warranty replacement because when those cars
first came out, nobody knew how to drive them, and
they were blowing engines. It wouldn't be the most impossible
thing to ruin an engine in one of those because
of the horsepower they put out. So I think it
really comes back to number one. Is it an L
(13:06):
seventy nine car?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
All right?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
If it's a real else, If it's a real L
seventy nine car and it's got a replacement engine in
it for whatever reason, warranty, parts department, you know, we
just wanted to change the engine, et cetera. Great, it's
still an original L seventy nine chassis. It's still worth
it's still worth some money. It's not worth what an
L seventy nine complete would be, obviously, but it's worth something.
(13:29):
The other the other side of the coin here, Chris,
unless you are you planning to sell it or do
you want to just drive it? No, I'm gonna keep it,
dri drive it, you know what, because there's there's too
many cars today that nobody really knows what they are
and nobody appreciates them for what they are, and they
just they put them in the garage. Oh, I'm saving it,
saving it for what, you know, because when you and
(13:50):
I are gone, nobody's gonna want these things. Nobody understands
the history behind them. And it's it's a shame, it
really is, you know, and it's it's just it's it's
good dinner table conversation too.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I think it's an L seventy nine, but it could
be this, and it could be that, you know, it's
I would be more stoked that it's an original L
seventy nine car. The engine's gone, you can't do anything
about it, but you actually do own a piece of
history there.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Right, Yeah, And we're going to enjoy it. We're just
trying to, you know, it's fun to decipher everything, right,
figure it all out.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I remember in high school my brother had We didn't
even realize what it was but he had a sixty
five Chevelle SS three ninety six car by the time
he got it in the early seventies. It had a
two eighty three in it because the original big block
was gone, but it also had the tack on the
console and it was a four speed car. And yeah,
(14:43):
you know what it was, right, it was a three
ninety six, three seventy five car. It was one of
the original you know, was that an L seventy eight?
That was an L seventy eight car? I thought, I
can't sure, I can't, Yeah, I can't. I can't remember
the number, but I know I know any soul that
years later, and we just sold it as a small
block chevel didn't, you know. It just didn't mean anything.
(15:05):
But that was a piece of automotive history. I think
those are the cars. The first year sixty five, they
produced less than two hundred of them or something, so
it was just a it was just a rear, just
a weird rear option car, so low numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I have a seventy two also that I built. I drove.
That was the first car I drove cross country when
I came in the Air Force, right, I drove from
Pennsylvania to Florida.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, you can't do that. You can't do that today, right,
you know. Well, and the problem is, you know the
problem with all the older cars. It's not that they
won't go the distance, but if they break, you can't
buy parts in the middle of Pennsylvania anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You can't get a water pump in Ohio, you can't
get you know, it's it's very different. I went to
college in a seventy two Monte Carlo all day long
for four years, and you know, I broke down on
the side of the Garden State Park walk into Newark
and get radiator hoses and belts and things that had
fallen off.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And so on and so on.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And you could do that today. Yeah, we'll have that
for you in three days. Great.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Got to order it online.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Got to order it online. It's it's everything that everything's
a bigger you know, depots and warehouses and you know,
just a very just a very different time. But then
again we're spoiled because look at how the car is today.
They just kind of rock it along and it's it's
rare when one of them does break and leave you stranded. Souh,
But I get it. I get it. Hey, listen, enjoy
the car. What color is it?
Speaker 5 (16:31):
It is?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Deep water blue?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oof, very pretty, very pretty. A friend of mine in
high school had a sixty six Novid two and Alan
storms with a storm and we called it the storm
and six. He had a six in it, and I
bet he wishes he still had that today too, anyway,
So a pleasure, Chris. Enjoy the car, all right, and
(16:54):
if you, if you, if you, if you find out
more about it, give us a call. We're always curious
about where these cars aren't what they really become. So
all right, be well, you're very welcome, sir. Yes, sir.
Having a documented car like that, just for the record,
it's exciting. It's different. It's a piece of history. It's
enough just to get to own a sixty seven Chevy Nova,
(17:15):
but to own a sixty seven Chevy Nova L seventy nine.
I should have asked Chris, he could have verified this.
I think it was a three twenty seven three point
fifty horse car, and it was very rare and very
very much sought after then as it is today. Hey,
five point five five six zero nine nine zero zero,
run a ding in the car, doctor. I am back
right after this. Hey, let's uh real quick, Tom, can
(17:40):
we tell the story in two minutes? Tom Ray? On
the on the on the I think so two eighty seven.
So here's my roving reporter, Tom Ray. The third off
and imitated, never duplicated the woman only not a phony,
no baloni. What happened on the road yesterday? Tom?
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Well, I was on a I was at one of
my client stations, got on I eighty seven north and
this is an area it's about six miles from New
York New Jersey border, and traffic just came to a
screeching halt and there's this big black smoke cloud up ahead,
and we're just sitting there and sitting there and cop
cars and ambulances and everything else flying up the side
(18:14):
of the road. And eventually, about a half an hour later,
we finally got up there and it was an RV.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Wow, there was only about a quarter of it left.
It was burned all the way down to the frame.
There's a lot, there's a lot in an RV that'll burn.
An RV goes out, it's no wonder. It was so
much smoke, it was like it's worse.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Than the house.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
They had to close the highway they had to close
the highway later to get it out of there. It
was off to the side of the road, but they
had to close it to get it out of there. So, uh,
it was a it was an interesting, interesting trip.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
When you told me this story, Tom, it made me
think and say to myself, we're into fall, we're going
to get into winter weather. Just as a reminder for everyone,
if you were low on fumes, low on guess you
would have been running on fumes. You might not have
made it. That's true.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
And it's it's actually funny because I did stop at
a gas station on my way out there and I
said something just said to me, you know, you don't
need it, but go ahead and top off the tank.
And you know, instead of just a bag of chips,
why don't you get something a little more substantial and
grab a soda while you're at it. And it's a
good thing I did because I got to eat supper
in the car.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
And it was great.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So and the road, as I always say, is a
very unforgiving place. But we just want to remind everybody
with the fall in the winter, you know, if it's summer,
maybe you're going to get out of the car and
sit and wait for the traffic to dissipate. But yeah,
when it's cold, when it's rainy, when it's bad weather,
you're stuck in the car, make sure it's got gas.
Make sure you've made a pit stop as well as
for the car if you can when you have to,
(19:41):
and don't count on things working quite right, especially as
winter weather approaches. So just and I should.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Add that in this strutch of the road, you have
to go about five miles before you find an exit
because the next next exit is Malwah. Then you hit
the New York New Jersey state line, and nowhere in
that median is there a turnaround.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
For the cops.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
So it's not like you could just slip into the
other lane and go the opposite direction. There's nowhere to go.
It's on guardrail on that.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Side, right, So you sit there. What are you gonna do?
You sit there? And I have to point out RVs
are probably the only thing worse than an RV fire
is an EV fire, because when the evs go And
when I called you yesterday and you told me about
the smoke, I said, I wonder if that is an
EV to myself. But the issue with an RV is
it's got everything that a house has in it, plus
(20:30):
gasoline plus chemical plus, so.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
It's got insulation, it's got two by fours, it's got
the kitchen table, it's got stoves, it's probably got propane
tanks attached to it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Right, So it's a big kaboom. But well, we're glad
you're safe, and we appreciate you being out there and
letting us know what's going on. So just a little
reminder for everybody. Let's open the phones up. Let's go
to Elmer in Wisconsin, ninety six old. See what's going
on here? Elmer, Welcome to the car doctor, sir, how
can I help?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Thank you? I have a ninety six Ozobila Aurora and
he's got an electrical problem. I've had it in a
shop for a couple of years and they got stumped
with They thought they had it fixed, and it was
getting courage. You could see it on the information that
there had vote fourteen fifteen votes. Then all of a
sudden it would go down to eleven ten, and then
the colors run crafty and they couldn't get it to charge,
and they changed the austin three times, and they say
(21:20):
it's charging adultator, but it's not coming through getting to
the battery, so I don't know where where the voters
regulator is at.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well, the vote the voltage regulator is built into the alternator.
All right, it's all part and parcel. So having said that, okay,
I remember the olds Auroras. As a matter of fact, Lou,
my former office manager, had a ninety six Aurora, and
I went through a lot with this car, more than
(21:48):
I want to remember. And I remember we had an
alternator charging system issue way back when. I mean we're
talking thirty years ago, twenty five years ago, when Lou
had it and it turned out that diagnosed it as
a bad alternator, put a replacement on, had a similar situation.
Put another replacement on, had a similar situation, and I said,
(22:08):
wait a minute, something's not making sense here. Now. One
of the things that you have to know is the
way this system works. The alternator is fed roughly five
volts sometimes a little more from the main engine, from
the powertrain control module, from the PCM. So one of
the first things you want to check is does it
(22:30):
have five vaults coming out of the PCM. If it
has if it has five volts coming out of the
PCM if it's got battery hot at the battery the
heavy red wire, all right, that shows I've got connection
to the battery if it's got and obviously it has
to be grounded. Okay. Next My next step is I'm
(22:51):
going to take a battery. I'm going to take a
test light battery hot, and I am going to apply
that voltage because that's that's going to drop across the bulb,
all right, and I am gonna I am going to
put that too to the red wire. Where the red
wire comes at the alternator. Does the alternator start to charge?
(23:13):
If the alternator charges, then my problem is elsewhere if
the alternator doesn't. What I ended up having to do
is I had to find a different supplier. They there's
something particular about that generation alternator. Those vehicles that I
don't know that and I don't want to say they're
all bad. I just I questioned the rebuilding carrier. I
(23:35):
just remember, you know you're striking a nerve here, Elmurra.
I remember that car from twenty five years ago, and
it we ended up with a different brand of alternator
and the problem went away. But you just have to
you know, there's four wires that come out to that alternator,
the heavy red, the light red, the blue, and I
think it was yellow or gray gray at the connector plug.
(23:58):
You know, I want to know, I want to know.
I want to do my pin test there.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
What do I have?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What can I check? All right? The voltage?
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Thing that did happen?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
One thing that did happen at the connector plug. Those
wires are one of them broke. They broke and I
tried to put them back together and it was very
thin wire. So I'm wondering whether those were three wires
maybe a connect connected well.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, are they connected? Well? Are they connected to the
right terminal?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I thought I had my color you know, connected up,
but it was it was not clear.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So first yeah, first, first first things first is let's well,
went and bought.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
A new connector from GM and it wasn't the same.
It's a bigger wire than it was the wireless on there.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Welcome to order repair common, So it.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Made it real difficult to try and mess those wires up. Right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, it's it's it's just the way they do it.
They make it a generic, bigger plug, bigger wire. We
that generally happens. I would say eighty percent of the time.
But what you want to do is get a wiring
diagram and break out. You know, does the red wire
go to the L terminal and so on? Do we
have proper control? There's ways to verify that we've got
(25:13):
the wires, choices, wires in the right places. And if
we do, then you've got a circuit. Test it the
way I'm describing it, don't be surprised if you have
to try a different brand of alternator. But now that
you tell me that, I'm going to say, make sure
your wire's in the right spot before you go any further.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
What about the power wire that goes from the alternator
back to the battery. Is there be a problem in that?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
There could? But do you have you know, if the
battery's got fourteen or twelve and a half volts in
it and you measure twelve and a half volts at
the alternator, then you're good right.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Well, after you drive it a while, the votes, like
I said, go down on the indicator on the information panel.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's shows you how many votes is run.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
It okay, but all of a sudden that goes down.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, and I'm not doubting that. I'm not doubting that
the is losing voltage. All right, but at the moment
of that failure, what does it show at the alternator itself?
But but right, since the alternator is low on charge, okay,
(26:16):
or since the battery is low on charge, you're gonna
probably read the same thing once you do this. You
got a cigarette lighter in the car, Yeah, why don't
you rig up a vault meter to a cigarette lighter adapter.
Forget the dashboard, forget forget the car, take the car
out of the equation. Right, cigarette lighters a straight shot
back to a fuse. If your volt if your voltage
(26:38):
there matches the vehicle. Now you've got something I would
consider accurate, not computer buffered, to tell you what's going on,
and start to look at that. All right, all right,
but first things first, you've got to fix and verify
you're wiring at the plug, and then you call me back.
All right, kiddo, all right, good enough, alrighty you let
me know, Yes, sir, you're very welcome. Eight five five
(26:58):
five six zero nine nine zero zero running in the card. Doctor,
I'll be back right after the stunk away. Hey, let's
go to Glenn and Tennessee. Glenn.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
You're there, sir, Yes, I am. How you doing good?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Shir tell me your story.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Okay. So I got a two thousand and nine FOURD escape.
About six months ago. I started having issues with the
ignition switch. So when I put the ignition the key
into the ignition switch, I had problems to the engine
turning over. So I've done some research on it and
found out that it could possibly be the ignition switch
(27:33):
itself inside the steering column. So I ordered a switch.
It was an OEM replacement. I put the switch in.
It never fixed the problem, and from that point on
it just seemed like it's gotten worse. I can do
my remote start on it. It's fine. From the remote key,
I can do the remote switch. It works fine. But
(27:56):
when I put the key in and try to turn
it over a lot of times just and turnover, it binds.
It doesn't bind up. It turns freely. But but when
I get when I get to the stopping point where
it should be cranking over, the engine does nothing. The
lights are on the dash, but the engine doesn't crank over.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, and this is different than what it was prior
to you changing the ignition switch.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
No, it's actually exactly the same. It just seems that
it doesn't start more times than it than it did before.
It's gotten worse.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Okay, but the cluster, the cluster is lit up.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, all right it is.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Do you have a scan tool?
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I do?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
All right? When the key is in that on position
and then you go to crank right, look on you Now,
I'm not talking about something OBD two. Do you have
a Do you have something that'll go year make model?
I do not.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I just got to standard OBD.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Okay. You know what I was going to do is
take it down the path of can we see you know,
vehicle manufacturer. I don't believe it's going to be there
in OBD two. A vehicle manufacturer would give us the
ability to see key position. And I'd be curious to
know does does the vehicle? Does the PCM recognize key position?
(29:19):
All right?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And what I'm thinking about is if the lock cylinder
is turning? Okay, I want to know do you have
an anti theft event? Is the first thought that comes
to my mind. All right. You know, if you look
on your dashboard, you've got that little plastic bubble with
the red light that blinks.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
There's a there's a lock on it, there's a lock
that comes up on it, right.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Does it Does it change when there's a problem, Remember
what O nine was like. But I thought that it
blinks steady, and then if it saw an anti theft moment,
it will blink fast or change how fast it blinks
or something. I just want to verify that I don't
have an anti theft event going on here, all right,
because what you're describing to me is that. The other
(30:04):
thing I want to mention is you're aware, but I
think you're past this. But I just want to mention
there is a bulletin out there that talks about changing
the steering lock module, the entire module assembly bulletin number
nine Dash nineteen Dash fifteen, very the the the late eights,
(30:25):
because watch where you are, Glenn, the late O eights
and the early tens and all of the nines. So
like baby, you're right in the middle of it. I'm
all ver susceptible to this bulletin. And you know, there
was a there was a procedure of does it do this?
Does it do that? Yes? Yes, yes, no, no, no,
change the lock module. At one point it was under
(30:45):
warranty but not every car got repaired like that, So
that's on my mind, all right, if if you you know,
my next step would be, because you're proficient enough to
take it apart, I would get out a wiring diagram
and I would find the wire that's telling the PCM. Hey,
I'm in crank mode. I'd put a voltmeter on it, okay,
(31:09):
because I just want to know do I have signal?
If I have signal out of the switch and I'm
not being activated out of the PCM. Now, I'm starting
to think I've got a theft issue. And where am
I going there? Everybody forgets about anti theft and and
you know what, I think it's bred into us. It's
our father's fault. They bred it into us that it's
(31:30):
always something mechanical. So all right, do those things? Yeah,
tell you what? Sit tight? Sit tight, Glenn, Sit tight,
Let me pull out. I don't want to rush you.
Sit tight. Let me pull over and take this. I'll
come back and we'll talk about it some more. I'm
running ady in the car. Doctor. I'll be back right
after this. And we are back. Glenn, you're still there, sir,
(31:51):
I am, yeah. I didn't want to cut you short.
So what we're going to say, you had a question.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
What was the recall? The bulletin number you were talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The bullet bulletin number was nine dash nineteen dash fifteen.
It's a bulletin, not a recall, and it talks about,
you know, and it questions and puts you in a
position of do you need a steering lock module? Predominantly
for vehicles that had problems with the key binding not turning.
You have to push it in to get it to go.
You know, does it was it? Was it rough? Was
(32:20):
it smooth? Et cetera.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
The only the only thing that I say is when
I try to insert it into the into the switch itself,
it's a little stubborn. Well, once it's in there and
I rotated, it seems free.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well when you say switch, let's let's let's let's clarify
our terms. All right. So, so when you're putting the
key in, you're putting the key in the lock cylinder,
just like you're putting the key in the lock cylinder
of the door, right, No different. At the end of
the lock cylinder, you're then turning the switch. Yes, okay,
(32:55):
just so we're both on the side. I like to
be clear in my relationships. So yeah, and listen, that's
not to say you don't have two problems, right, Who's
who's to say you don't have, you know, an issue
with the steering lock module and an issue with the
with the no start with the no crank. But look
at anti theft. Remember what I said. At the back
of the ignition switch, there'll be one wire that feeds
(33:17):
the PCM and says, hey, I'm in crank you know,
engage the starter. And there's a couple other things that'll
look at there. But that is a part of the
controlled area network. And one last thing the instrument cluster
is the anti theft system. So maybe looking at that anyway,
let me know what happens, Glenn, I'm running NY in
the car doctor till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive,
they're priceless. See you.
Host
Ron Ananian
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