The $49 Bagel Test — Why a Real Oil Change Costs What It Costs
Bagels don’t get price complaints—but oil changes do. Ron compares a $49 North Jersey bagel run to the true value of a proper oil change: factory drain-plug gaskets, under-car inspection, torque specs, shields off/on, and a road test that keeps you safe at highway speeds. Plus: a Buick saved by an “it-won’t-work” ECU re-flash, diagnosing a P0300 random misfire and lean trims (cat damage risk), Quadra-jet hot-start basics, and chasing brake shake after a subframe swap with dial indicators and mount checks. Call in your oil-change price and what you actually got.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred. Here direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardctorshow
dot com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I want to know, and I'm trying to keep it
real right because that's what you guys want. You want
real car Doctor's stuff. Somebody asked me, whats and how
long does it take you to get ready to do
the show? And I you know, I'm either doing it
all the time in my head or I don't do
it at all I just sit down and I start talking.
This is sit down and start talking kind of a show. Frankly,
(01:13):
I was really going to sit down. I want to
talk to you about reflashing and how reflashing fixed a
buick this week that I didn't expect it to fix
because the bulletin wasn't supposed to work and we knew
that going in, and I wanted to make a whole
big thing about that. But then I went for bagels today.
Bagels are a weekend tradition if you're from New Jersey,
especially North Jersey. It's sort of like, you know, it's
(01:36):
like soul food. If you're a North Jersey person, you
just got to get your bagels. And I guess it's
a New York thing, right, we all do our bagels.
And I noticed something. I bought a dozen bagels. There
were seventeen bucks. Okay, that's not so bad. The price
of everything has gone up. I got three breakfast sandwiches.
Now in New Jersey, having tailor egg and cheese is
(01:56):
you know, it's a rite of passage, all right. In
North we call it tailor ham. In South Jersey, I
think they call it pork roll.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
What they do in Central Jersey. But whatever it is,
everybody enjoys it. By the time I bought three sandwiches
and a dozen bagels, it was forty nine dollars in change.
And I sat there and I went, huh, Now, I
know things are going up, and I know things are expensive,
and I know we're all going to complain and say
it's taris and it's this and that. But still fifty
bucks for a dozen bagels and three sandwiches. It's not
(02:25):
the fifty dollars for that. I've never heard anybody complain
about it. I've never heard anybody complain about the price
of bagels and bacon, egg and cheese and tailor egg
and cheese sandwiches. But I hear so. And you know
where this is going, right, Hey, you want real wrong
here it is? How come everybody complains about the price
of an oil change? How come everybody complains about the
(02:47):
price of the thing that gets you back and forth
and keeps you safe and you commute out onto the
highway and you travel, and you go do business and
you go to do family. Nobody really says, gee, I
really appreciate getting a great oil change. Why is that?
Are we thinking, right, I don't think you are not
one minute. And I sat there and I watched this morning, right.
(03:09):
I watched the line of people walk in and out
of the bagel store, which, by the way, had the
sign up that said we charged one price for cash
and one price for credit card. M hm. So you
know how come they can get away with it? But
every other business seems to get stared at. And I
don't want to hear that. The food industry is hard
to make a living in. You know what, don't go
into the food industry. That's that's what it is. It's
(03:32):
you know, I'm talking about order repair. I'm going to
be a little selfish for a moment. Why is it
nobody in the bagel line sat there and said, well, gee,
I can go get the dough, I can go get
the poppy seas, I can go get the everything fix,
and I can go buy my own tailor hand. I
can do this at home. Nobody talks about that. But
the first time you tell somebody an oil change, a
real oil change is close to two hundred dollars, you'd
(03:55):
think we burned the Statue of liberty. It's just that crazy.
And all of a sudden, you hear well, I can
go to Walmart and I can buy oil for you know,
six dollars a court, three dollars a quart. I can
buy this oil filter for you know, ninety nine cents,
and I can do it in my driveway. And you
think you're getting just as good a bagel? Do you are?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
You?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Are you really getting as good an oil change in
your driveway as the guy that's doing it in the bay.
I don't think so. I don't think it can be.
I don't think you're getting a full look under the car.
I don't think you're getting a professional to sit there
and peek at brakes and check tires and wiggle the
front end, do a road test, a trained ear, a
certified mechanic. We're talking about a good oil change. We're
(04:38):
not talking about the local idiot. We're talking about somebody
that's taking the time to look the car over correctly.
Nobody talks about that. But everybody wants a cheap oil change.
But boy, that bagel. I can't wait till the bagel
price is hit, you know, thirty dollars for a dozen,
I want to say, everybody does, then what are you
paying for an oil change? I want to know. I
want to hear about it. I want to hear it
(05:00):
by email. I want to hear it by phone phones
A five to five five six zero nine nine zero
zero email me Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. What are
you paying for an oil change? Do you think it's
too much? Do you think it's not enough? Do you
know what you're actually getting? What does that oil change intel?
I see an awful lot of oil change mistakes made,
(05:24):
and I see an awful lot of things that have
to be corrected, the simplest of which is the drain
plug gasket on the drain plug. I'm not sure why,
and I've been talking about, complaining, about ranting about bitchin
about this for years that you know, if it's a
(05:46):
if it's some type of a metal gasket, we'll talk
about Honda's. Honda's a favorite, Nissan's right behind it, sometimes
Toyota's after that depends on what the GET drain plug
comes with from the factory. A Honda drain plug gasket
by definition of Honda the manufacturer. The vehicle manufacturer says
change the aluminum drain plug gas get every oil change,
(06:07):
it's it's supposed to be done. That's not ron's rule.
That's manufacturer's rule supposed to be followed by the dealer
and everybody else doing an oil change to do it properly.
Why because they don't want you to overtighten the drain
plug to get it to seal and ruin the threads
in the oil pan. Ergo, that's where we get stripped
oil pants from. But yet I had won this week.
(06:29):
I had a Honda drain plug this week, I literally
had to. I ended up throwing it out because I
just I couldn't. I ended up I bolted the head
of the drain plug in a vice, and I took
a hammer and a chisel trying to get the drain
plug gas get off because it was it was so
crushed and to the point of being deformed onto the
(06:50):
head of the bolt. And what do you do with that?
But nobody's complaining about We complained about Batels when they
made bad but we don't complain about the price.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I've had a few people come in and tell me, hey,
that's a great oil change you did. I really appreciate
because they sat there and they'll sit in the shop.
We'll do a waight to oil change and it takes
forty five minutes to an hour to do a proper
oil change on a lot of vehicles. I'm not talking
your bread and butter garden variety four cylinder wonder cars,
something from fifteen years ago, where it's around the block
(07:25):
up in the air. Still takes twenty minutes to a
half hour, but it's not We have to take down
body shields and panels and access and remove all these
rusty bolts that have been on there and corroded, because
everything corrodes within three to five years. I'm not talking
about that stuff, but people have come to appreciate a good,
thoroughly done oil change. I always tell everybody about maintenance.
(07:47):
We've been talking a lot about maintenance in the last
couple of weeks, right, I always tell everybody maintenance is
a very hard thing to sell because somebody comes in
and you do fifteen hundred dollars worth of service. Whatever
it is, you know, fuel system cleaning, cylinder examination, spark plugs,
you know, coolant, any kinds of fluids. It adds up quick, right,
(08:08):
twelve fifteen and eighteen things to move in chunks of
three hundred. You can spend two grand on some of
these maintenance. Suber Rus probably the worst suber Us at
sixty thousand miles. It's a major service. It's a lot
of work if you're doing it by the book, and
then if you're doing it by real world, the combination,
you know, like what does it need, where's the environment,
what's it operating in? But you don't really see the
(08:29):
value in that until much later, until you look down
at the odometer and you go, wow, the car's got
one hundred and forty thousand miles on it. It feels
really good, Like, I guess the money I spent a
sixty thousand got me here, and so does that proper
oil change? And somebody's gonna write me. Some internet troll
(08:50):
is going to write me and say, ron, I changed
my own oil and my car's got two hundred thousand
miles on it. Yeah, great, you're the guy. You're the
But the majority of people, because understand whom my area are,
and says my audience, the majority of my audience does
not do their own oil changes. They go somewhere and
they listen to the man behind the counter, and I'm
just trying to explain to them what they should be
looking for. To that man behind the counter, much like
(09:13):
they look to that man behind the counter to get
a good bagel. I've never heard anybody walk in and
say I need a dozen bagels. I want the coldest,
hardest tales. A matter of fact, give me yesterday's bagels.
That's what I want to pay for today. No, everybody
wants hot, fresh bagels. They always walk and say, hey,
the bagel's fresh. Is the oil change any good? How
good do you do an oil change? Somebody emailed me
(09:35):
this week and they wanted a price on something. Hey,
can you give me a price quote on I don't
even know what it was because I didn't give it
really much of a thought because they didn't even tell
me what kind of vehicle it was, which made the
whole point conversation kind of ridiculous. But nobody asked me,
and nobody ever really asks me, how well do I
do this repair? What effort goes into this repair? Am
(09:57):
I qualified to do this repair? They just assumed, because
probably because their father did it forty five years ago
and he's dead now. But you know, his father told
him the story when he was sitting on his lap
when he was seven, and he remembers that fifty years later.
It's gonna be a good hour. Eight five, five, five,
six oh nine nine zero zero. Come on back, let's
talk about it. I'm ronnin Eny and the car doctor. Okay,
(10:23):
I'm calm. See I start talking about oil changes, and
I get a little off the rails. It just because
I compare everyday life to cars, and I just look
at the inequality, and I don't think we understand it.
Because order repairs a vital, vital part of our society.
Let's talk to Billy in Colorado. Billy, talk to me.
(10:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Hey, Ron, good to talk to you, you two, sir.
So this one's got a sordid backstory. I'll keep it
as short as I can. It's a two thousand and
six pathfinder with the four leader V six right. Came
to me two years ago, needed new primary cats, and
uh so, the the good ones were twenty four hundred,
(11:06):
the cheap ones verse seven hundred. So I took a
chance on the cheap ones. That's a mistake I'll never
make again. And uh so, just.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Out of curiosity, Just out of curiosity, Billy, is there
any do you recall? Is there any physical difference between
the aftermarket cat versus the O wee cat and say.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, and in manufacturing quality, don't even get me started.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
It didn't.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You get what you paid for, right, Oh?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
If that ye? So at that time when I first
did the work, the timing chain had a nasty rattle
to it did not have the vacuum supercharger wine and
the owner decided to keep putting that off. So it
comes back to me a month ago, two years after
(11:55):
the original repair, and it was it had a PO
three hundred and reduced power. And I knew what the
problem was before I even looked at the car, just
as it as it pulled up to my house, I
could hear the blown exhaust gasket. It blew out between
(12:16):
the primary and secondary cats because the packing that holds
the element in the metal housing disintegrated and clogged the
secondary cat and the pressure just blew out the gasket
in between. So the cat was still under warranty because
it's a cow cat, which is required to Colorado right,
(12:37):
And so replaced the primary cat, got it the secondary
cat and put it back together and it ran great
for a month. Just came back with the same symptoms
as far as the PO three hundred and reduced power.
(12:58):
And when it came months ago, the the timing chain
noise had gotten much worse. Clank and rattles is awful.
So we were talking about doing it, and it was
getting close to the point where he thought he might.
You know, he's kind of go, no.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Go on the cars man, how many how many miles
on the car?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Two and fifty?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Right?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And uh So, anyway, it it comes in yesterday and
same symptoms except no exhaust leak and the clank and
rattle is horrible. I'm like, you know, it could be
another cat problem somehow, or it could finally be having
you know, failure from the timing chain. So to check
(13:42):
for exhaust blockage, I did a man of a vacuum
test and it passed. It's you know, getting normal response
on the vacuum.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What was MANIFL vacuum bill at Idle.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Well, so it's a it's sixteen. Remember we get lower vacuums.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, you're you're because you're Europe in the mountains. Sure.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
Sure, it was sixteen at Idol and then it went
up to about seventeen at about two to three thousand
r pm.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Still seems low. I have to tell you know, even
with raised elevation, that still seems off by a couple
of points.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Right, Well, you know it's you know, it's not It's
not in your car, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I'm just saying i'd be curious,
you know, you might want to you might want to
just do a quick vacuum test on something else of
similar lineage, just to compare, just for curiosity sake. All right,
that's that's that's number one. Is it using coolant at all?
Are you going through any coolant?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, So so the real question is, you know it's misfiring.
Which comes first? Is the cat melting?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Is it damaged from something? Or is it is it
misfiring causing the cat failure? Which came first? The chicken
or the egg?
Speaker 6 (14:56):
So the the cat that I replaced, uh the second
time is on the left bank, and it's adding fuel
on the left bank. So that's almost certainly where the
mysfires are coming from.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And what is the what is the difference in fuel
trim left or right bill?
Speaker 6 (15:17):
It's adding it's basically zero on the right bank, and
it's uh it's adding like uh ten to fifteen percent
on the left bank.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's that's a pretty good that's a pretty good off
base measurement. So what that's what that's telling me is
the left side of the motor is running lean.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Yes, or or you know that you know, it's just
it's mysfiring. So you've got both, you know, unburnt.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Fuel and oxygen. Sure oxygen? Is it? Is it physically
misfiring at the time that you're doing your fuel trim measurement?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Oh yeah, listening run runs like uh runs badly?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Gotcha? Thank you? I gotcha?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, So it's got a it's got a physical miss
So has it identified anyone but ticular cylinder more sowers.
It's just a P zero three hundred.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Just three hundred. And I did a load balance test
power balance test, and nothing jumped out at me.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, and I don't know if it's accurate to do
that now, because if you've got the physical misfire, does
it have a good cat on it or a bad
cat on it? Now?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Right?
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Well, I mean that's you know, basically, I want to
figure out what tests I can do, you know, before
I tear open the exhaust again to find out.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I would want to do. You own a borscope sure.
Can we look at can we look at the piston
tops or the intake valves left bank to right bank.
I'm wondering, if I'm wondering if this engine is burning oil,
I'll ask I don't think so. You wonder if he
knows he has mentioned it? You know, it might maybe
(16:53):
it's burning two quarts of oil in between his five
thousand mile oil change intervals? Or is the next question?
What is his oil drain interval? Right? How often does
he change the oil?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
You know, I honestly don't know, and that sort of.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Comes to mind. So do this because I'm gonna run
out of clock. Let's borescope it. Do we have carbon
deposits left to right? What's an oil consumption issue? If
we pressurize the cooling system, plugs out, pressurize the cooling system,
come back in the morning. If we look with our borescope,
do we see coolant in any of the cylinders on
the left side? We probably won't, but we'll eliminate the fact.
(17:30):
Could we have a cep head guests gut on one
side versus the other, causing coolant leaks causing the cat
to self destruct. Let's start looking for the good and
the bed. I'll talk to you next week, Billy. I
always appreciate our conversations. I'm running eny in the car doctor.
I'll be back at eight five five five six zero
nine nine zero zero right after.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
This from the ctreet to the oven rule tonight. If
you run his head, Ron will keep you all right. Yeah,
(18:13):
he's a car doctor.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Car advisor. I didn't know we had a full band
in the green room back there. I didn't realize the
studio was that big. Did you guys had a wing
that I didn't say. You weren't looking well, I'll tell
you what, boy, just they're really because I heard some
(18:40):
noise in the background over here at corporate headquarters, and
I guess it was the band warming up. I don't
tell the American public, they'll complain. Let's go to Greg
and Florida. Greg, Yes, sir, how are you?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Hey? I'm blessed. How are you?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm good man? What's going on?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Hey? Yeah, I talked to you.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
I think it was three weeks ago about my should
be van and the quadrijet carburetor that was having hot
start issues, right, and I, uh, well, I want to
correct something I said. I've been working on it for
trying to fix it for eleven years. But the truth
is I haven't had it author a part in at
least five years, maybe six or seven. But I've been
thinking about fixing it right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, thinking counts, right, thinking counts. Sometimes sometimes we get
credit for enthusiasm. So uh huh, So you took it
apart and you tried to rebuild it, or you rebuilt it,
or where does it stand now?
Speaker 7 (19:32):
I decided to do another kid on it. H And
I had got it apart, and the needle valve was
one of the worst one, maybe the worst one I
ever saw. I don't know how it even ran. The
needle valve looked terrible on right. So you know, maybe
when I fixed it five or six years ago, it's
probably gotten worse over the years.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Did you did you happen to look at what I suggested?
I think this is the car where I talked about
the solder plugs in the base of the carburet coming loose.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
Well, I looked at them and they looked fine, they
looked solid, but I epoxied them anyway, and uh oh,
and I put a metal brass float in at this time.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Okay, and you're gonna tell me you're gonna tell me
it got better, but it's still it's still it's still floods.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
Well, it's better, but I don't want to say it's
flooding now because I haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Seen any black smoke.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Okay, it's starting a little easier, so I'm thinking maybe
it's my spark plugs.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, have you put plugs in it since you rebuilt
the carburetor?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have you driven it since you rebuilt the carburetor?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Have you gotten the engine up to running temperature and
taken it for a you know, an hour's ride?
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, I've driven it all right.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Have you pulled the plug?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Got an hour? But you know you have you metes?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Have you pulled the plug yet?
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Well?
Speaker 7 (20:52):
I pulled out number eight because I've had an oil
fouling issue in the past, but I'm running an engine attitude.
That's the oil consumption down a lot on it, right,
And the number eight plug didn't have any oil on it.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
It had had some fuel deposits.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Okay, was it was it?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
And I put it back in?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Was it wettish?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Didn't know it was? It was dry?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Okay. Did it look black?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
No, it was clean looking it.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
Like I said, it just had some light colored fuel
deposits on it.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What are what are fuel deposits? Greg? I don't think
I've ever heard that term.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
They're like, uh, a real fine build up. I kind
of like a rock is kind of. They're kind of
like cement, but like an alabaster color.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You sure that's not oil?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, I'm sure it's not oil?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay? Are you consuming? Does it? Does this engine burn oil?
Speaker 7 (21:47):
The use of some but like I said, when I
started using the added of that, it cut it way down.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, all right, so where does it stand now? What's
the question?
Speaker 7 (21:56):
Uh, I'm still having a little bit of issue with
the hot starts. I'm not getting the black smoke. And well,
I wanted to ask you about the spark plug. See
the ones I got in there are n gk iridium, right,
so I'm suspecting those, but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well what kind of well, let's let's what kind of
shape is the rest of the ignition system? And this
seventy five was the second year for CHI. If I
recall correctly, this has some type of electronic ignition in it. Correct?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah, it's got a HI right, and you.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Know how old are the wires? What kind of shape
is the is the cap and rotor in? If you
tell me you replaced it, my next question is going
to be whose were they? Was it good quality? Have
you purchased a spark tester from your local otoparts house
and look to see will this thing? You know, will
it jump a gap of forty thousands? Will it? Will
(22:49):
it jump a gap of fifty thousands?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Well?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You know, will it produce? Will that ignition coil that's
fifty two years old produce enough spark to fire this
cold engine to get into those conversations in your head?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Right?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Right?
Speaker 7 (23:03):
It sounds like something worth considering it. It's got Packard
spark plug wires on it. I don't know if those
are any good or not.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I think those are original.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
Oh well, no, I put them on there. I've changed wires,
the plug wires on it twice since I've had it.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay, how long god you do them?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Uh? Probably been five or six years at least, But
it hasn't had that many miles on it.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, Packard's a good product, But again, I would
start testing things before I just keep replacing things. Do
you have any kind of a spark tester? Greg, Let's
cut to the chase.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
Well, I got the one where I can hold the
UH wire off from the engine blocking.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, there's there's there's a bunch of there's a bunch
of yeah. One, I mean, there's a bunch of different
ones out there. You can go down to a parts
house and they make it where it alligator clips to
the engine is ground and then the other side plugs
into the spark plug wire and then you can adjust
the gap. So you can adjust and see what'll it reduce?
Thirty thousand volts? Fifty thousand volts, sixty thousand volts. I
(24:04):
believe Hi in seventy five was producing somewhere between thirty
and fifty thousand vaults. And you want to look and
see does it produce that much spark? Can it produce
that much spark?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Right?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
The thing?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
The other thing we're gonna want to be aware of,
and it's easy enough to do in seventy five, is
can we do some kind of a cylinder power balance test?
You know, get it get it hot, get it warm,
make sure you know it just the carburetor as good
as you can, right, does it idle smooth? If you
put a rag you might take two over the top
of the primary side of the carburetor. Does the engine
(24:39):
choke out, does it stall or does the engine speed
increase and run smoother? Meaning and if it does, that
shows me that we've got an internal problem in the carburetor.
Restrict the passageway, fuel in lit problems, something fuel enrichment
that you are cutting off air supply, changing the way
it runs, meaning that even though you rebuilt it and
put a kit and that it really should probably carburetor
(25:02):
should probably go out to somebody that'll do a professional
job and flow it on a bench. All right, So
putting gaskets in and getting a carburetor professionally rebuilt these days,
I think I pointed this out in our first conversation.
Could you have a throttle shaft that's worn? And I'd
be amazed if you didn't. That is allowing a leak
and causing an air problem, and that can be the
(25:25):
cause of a hard start. You know, there's not a
lot here. You've got to eliminate ignition. This is a lawnmower, Greg,
Right here we go. We've got to eliminate ignition. We've
got to eliminate compression mechanical stuff, and we've got to
eliminate fuel. Have you stuck a vacuum gauge on the
engine to see what manifold vacuum is at idle when
the engine's warmed up and running.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
I just did that after rebuilding the carburetor and it's
almost eighteen steady idling.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, that's a good number. I like the number.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You may want to try adjusting mixture with the vacuum
gauge on there and play with it a little bit.
What gives you the best results?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know, you got to remember you're dealing with something
that's fifty one, almost fifty two years old. You can
follow specs and you can follow procedures, but some things
are going to go out the window because some things
have warner age to the point that it's not accounted
for in a factory procedure when the when the engine
in the vehicle was factory fresh, right, right, So a
little bit more fuel, a little bit more or less timing.
(26:27):
But I've got to cover the basics vacuum spark capability
and don't just keep throwing parts at it. And if
you have any doubt, try and find somebody that if
they do rebuild the carburetor ask them, do you flow
bench test the carburetor, meaning they will run a special,
a particular fluid through It's not gasoline, but they run
a fluid through it that has the same density as
(26:49):
gasoline because they're looking for, you know, flow through the
ports and they can actually measure how that carburetor will work.
There used to be guys out there that did that.
Most of them are gone now all right, yeah, you know.
The other option is if you wanted to try it,
if you have a local Where did I get it from?
I found a great carburetor for the Monte Carlo through
Advance Auto Parts. They've got there in line with some
(27:11):
company that's doing rebuilding, and I was impressed. The company
that rebuilt the carburetor, the name escapes me. They're out
of Chicago, bubble wrap, sealed, flow tested. They did it
just right. So do that and you give me a
call back and we can kind of go from there.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
All right, kiddo, are you running the quadrant yet? On
your money Carlo?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Now to GC right now?
Speaker 7 (27:30):
Okay, well, I'm considering putting that on my Chevy Man.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
I've got one.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, I'll tell you what before you do that, Greg,
let's get it running right, and let's get some of
the other things covered first before you start changing parts
and making it worse. Call me back, I'm running any
in the car, doctor. I'll return right after this. Let's
go to Renee in Maine real quick, seventeen PACIFICA. What's
going on Renee?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, so it started back last year. We actually I
was driving down the road and this is where it
all started, is I cracked the subprame on my vehicle,
just driving and just snapped. There was no rust, there
was no nothing. After that, we had to have some
breaks and rotors all around replaced. Obviously we had that done,
(28:17):
and then most recently we had to take it in
for some kind of like what we thought was the
breaks and rotors. Again, the breaks and roaders were done
back in May, mind you, and there was also like
almost kind of like a snapping sound and that like
the front end when you would kind of turn. The
(28:40):
guy couldn't said that our breaks and roaders were fine.
There was no wear or tear on them. He and
we were like, well, you know, this is what's happening
when we when we were breaking after a high speed,
it would shake consistently.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Steering wheel would shake renee.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, it wasn't so No, it wasn't really in the
steering wheel, Like you could feel a slight vibration in
the steering wheel. But the biggest area that we were
finding that we were feeling it is in the floorboard
if okay, your foot was going to go through the floorboard.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Okay, so was the brake pedal pulsing up and down
and you feel it more in the seed of your pants,
but a little bit in the steering wheel.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, not at all. The brake pedal seems to be
very steady. It seems steady. Yeah, it feels like it's
like under the like in the floor.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Okay. So so my concern becomes, you know, you had
some sort of subframe repair or did they replace the subframe.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
That was completely replaced?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Okay, good, that's really what should be done. So then
the next is how is the rest of the front suspension,
Tyrod's ball joints, things like that. Did they go through that?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, we replaced this this feeling that we're feeling. You
can feel it on the passenger side, but you can
mostly feel it on the driver side. We did while
it was in there, getting the brakes and rotors rechecked.
We had both inner and outer tyrod and done on
the passenger side. All brakes, rotors, bushings all look good
(30:19):
according to the shop that we're taking it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, So looking at it and measuring it are two
different things a vehicle. A vehicle can have good looking
brake roadors and thick enough brake pads and still have
a brake rotor that's out of round.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
So here's another thing is because we are breaks, my
husband actually did the brakes and roadors himself, and because
of that, our brake pads and rotors were actually still
under warranty. So to make sure that we covered all bases.
After the tyrod ends were replaced it, we brought it
right home. We took those brake pads of rotors off,
(30:56):
we brought them in and we got brand new, a
brand new set.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
And it still does the same thing.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
And it's still doing the same thing, and.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It only does it when you step on the brake, step.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
On the brake, or sometimes like when we're selling accelerating
up a hill, you know, we notice it like it
like starts to like, you know, just a little bit, the.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Steering wheel starts to shake when you're accelerating up a
hill a little bit, but not as but not as bad. Right, Okay,
there's two things I would like to see done to
this car, all right, I would I would really like
to see somebody put a dial indicator, which is a
very accurate measurement device, on the face of the brake
(31:37):
roaders and spin it, all right. It will give them
the ability to see if something is out of round
and concentric, meaning that it's it's it's spinning square to itself.
All right, So I want to dial indicate the front roaders.
I probably want to dial indicate the front hubs, just
because this car had a subframe and a bunch of
other front end work. Is everything square and where it
should be? And I'd like to do that to the
(31:58):
rear of the vehicle, all right? And then I'd like
to make sure do we have are the motor and
trans mounts correct because they had the subframe down, Is
everything tight? Is everything in line? And did they do
an alignment to this vehicle? And what does the alignment
look like?
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
We did actually when we had the tyron ends in there,
they did an alignment as well.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, yeah, then let's do those things that I just
discussed and you give me a call back and you
let me know what they're saying. We can go further
if we have to, but I think you're going to
find an answer with one of those two tests. I
appreciate it. Renee, good luck. Let me know. I'm ronnin
Andy and the Car Doctor. I'll be back right after
this feedback this hour, Todd writes in Todd's a Technician.
(32:43):
Writing in he says, Hey, I'm listening to the show.
I want to tell you, for the guy with the
Chevy Van that the spec is sixty to eighty thousand volts,
and if it doesn't jump either one of those, or
it doesn't jump eighty at a max, then the coil
is no good. I get it. I think some of
the early ones were less Todd, but I appreciate the thought. It's,
you know, fifty two years ago. It was a long time,
but let's get him started using a spark tester and
see if he can do that, and maybe that'll kind
(33:05):
of push things along and help get him going in
the right direction. But I appreciate your sharing your memories
right because that was a while ago. And Dodge writes
in talking about the band needs to start playing some
different songs, one of which is Run's oil change is
Gonna cost You. I think we're gonna move Dodge over
to the cheap oil change side of things because Dodge
doesn't want to pay for service and quality. Dodge wants
(33:25):
to do it the cheap way. But we say that
with love, like I know Dodge writes his emails with love, because,
after all, while else would he be listening to the
show just to aggravate me. Nah, I don't think so.
But any event, I hope you got something out of
this hour. I know I did, and I was glad
to help everybody where I could. And I think you've
got to remember when we're giving out test specs and
we talk about things to do, and we're just trying
(33:46):
to get you guys back on the point of testing,
not guessing, and trying to you know what's good, what's bad,
and stop instead of looking just for what's bad till
the next time I'm running any In the card Doctor,
the mechanics aren't expensive, They're priceless.
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
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zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
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channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I want to know, and I'm trying to keep it
real right because that's what you guys want. You want
real car Doctor's stuff. Somebody asked me, whats and how
long does it take you to get ready to do
the show? And I you know, I'm either doing it
all the time in my head or I don't do
it at all I just sit down and I start talking.
This is sit down and start talking kind of a show. Frankly,
(01:13):
I was really going to sit down. I want to
talk to you about reflashing and how reflashing fixed a
buick this week that I didn't expect it to fix
because the bulletin wasn't supposed to work and we knew
that going in, and I wanted to make a whole
big thing about that. But then I went for bagels today.
Bagels are a weekend tradition if you're from New Jersey,
especially North Jersey. It's sort of like, you know, it's
(01:36):
like soul food. If you're a North Jersey person, you
just got to get your bagels. And I guess it's
a New York thing, right, we all do our bagels.
And I noticed something. I bought a dozen bagels. There
were seventeen bucks. Okay, that's not so bad. The price
of everything has gone up. I got three breakfast sandwiches.
Now in New Jersey, having tailor egg and cheese is
(01:56):
you know, it's a rite of passage, all right. In
North we call it tailor ham. In South Jersey, I
think they call it pork roll.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
What they do in Central Jersey. But whatever it is,
everybody enjoys it. By the time I bought three sandwiches
and a dozen bagels, it was forty nine dollars in change.
And I sat there and I went, huh, Now, I
know things are going up, and I know things are expensive,
and I know we're all going to complain and say
it's taris and it's this and that. But still fifty
bucks for a dozen bagels and three sandwiches. It's not
(02:25):
the fifty dollars for that. I've never heard anybody complain
about it. I've never heard anybody complain about the price
of bagels and bacon, egg and cheese and tailor egg
and cheese sandwiches. But I hear so. And you know
where this is going, right, Hey, you want real wrong
here it is? How come everybody complains about the price
of an oil change? How come everybody complains about the
(02:47):
price of the thing that gets you back and forth
and keeps you safe and you commute out onto the
highway and you travel, and you go do business and
you go to do family. Nobody really says, gee, I
really appreciate getting a great oil change. Why is that?
Are we thinking, right, I don't think you are not
one minute. And I sat there and I watched this morning, right.
(03:09):
I watched the line of people walk in and out
of the bagel store, which, by the way, had the
sign up that said we charged one price for cash
and one price for credit card. M hm. So you
know how come they can get away with it? But
every other business seems to get stared at. And I
don't want to hear that. The food industry is hard
to make a living in. You know what, don't go
into the food industry. That's that's what it is. It's
(03:32):
you know, I'm talking about order repair. I'm going to
be a little selfish for a moment. Why is it
nobody in the bagel line sat there and said, well, gee,
I can go get the dough, I can go get
the poppy seas, I can go get the everything fix,
and I can go buy my own tailor hand. I
can do this at home. Nobody talks about that. But
the first time you tell somebody an oil change, a
real oil change is close to two hundred dollars, you'd
(03:55):
think we burned the Statue of liberty. It's just that crazy.
And all of a sudden, you hear well, I can
go to Walmart and I can buy oil for you know,
six dollars a court, three dollars a quart. I can
buy this oil filter for you know, ninety nine cents,
and I can do it in my driveway. And you
think you're getting just as good a bagel? Do you are?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
You?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Are you really getting as good an oil change in
your driveway as the guy that's doing it in the bay.
I don't think so. I don't think it can be.
I don't think you're getting a full look under the car.
I don't think you're getting a professional to sit there
and peek at brakes and check tires and wiggle the
front end, do a road test, a trained ear, a
certified mechanic. We're talking about a good oil change. We're
(04:38):
not talking about the local idiot. We're talking about somebody
that's taking the time to look the car over correctly.
Nobody talks about that. But everybody wants a cheap oil change.
But boy, that bagel. I can't wait till the bagel
price is hit, you know, thirty dollars for a dozen,
I want to say, everybody does, then what are you
paying for an oil change? I want to know. I
want to hear about it. I want to hear it
(05:00):
by email. I want to hear it by phone phones
A five to five five six zero nine nine zero
zero email me Ron at cardoctorshow dot com. What are
you paying for an oil change? Do you think it's
too much? Do you think it's not enough? Do you
know what you're actually getting? What does that oil change intel?
I see an awful lot of oil change mistakes made,
(05:24):
and I see an awful lot of things that have
to be corrected, the simplest of which is the drain
plug gasket on the drain plug. I'm not sure why,
and I've been talking about, complaining, about ranting about bitchin
about this for years that you know, if it's a
(05:46):
if it's some type of a metal gasket, we'll talk
about Honda's. Honda's a favorite, Nissan's right behind it, sometimes
Toyota's after that depends on what the GET drain plug
comes with from the factory. A Honda drain plug gasket
by definition of Honda the manufacturer. The vehicle manufacturer says
change the aluminum drain plug gas get every oil change,
(06:07):
it's it's supposed to be done. That's not ron's rule.
That's manufacturer's rule supposed to be followed by the dealer
and everybody else doing an oil change to do it properly.
Why because they don't want you to overtighten the drain
plug to get it to seal and ruin the threads
in the oil pan. Ergo, that's where we get stripped
oil pants from. But yet I had won this week.
(06:29):
I had a Honda drain plug this week, I literally
had to. I ended up throwing it out because I
just I couldn't. I ended up I bolted the head
of the drain plug in a vice, and I took
a hammer and a chisel trying to get the drain
plug gas get off because it was it was so
crushed and to the point of being deformed onto the
(06:50):
head of the bolt. And what do you do with that?
But nobody's complaining about We complained about Batels when they
made bad but we don't complain about the price.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I've had a few people come in and tell me, hey,
that's a great oil change you did. I really appreciate
because they sat there and they'll sit in the shop.
We'll do a waight to oil change and it takes
forty five minutes to an hour to do a proper
oil change on a lot of vehicles. I'm not talking
your bread and butter garden variety four cylinder wonder cars,
something from fifteen years ago, where it's around the block
(07:25):
up in the air. Still takes twenty minutes to a
half hour, but it's not We have to take down
body shields and panels and access and remove all these
rusty bolts that have been on there and corroded, because
everything corrodes within three to five years. I'm not talking
about that stuff, but people have come to appreciate a good,
thoroughly done oil change. I always tell everybody about maintenance.
(07:47):
We've been talking a lot about maintenance in the last
couple of weeks, right, I always tell everybody maintenance is
a very hard thing to sell because somebody comes in
and you do fifteen hundred dollars worth of service. Whatever
it is, you know, fuel system cleaning, cylinder examination, spark plugs,
you know, coolant, any kinds of fluids. It adds up quick, right,
(08:08):
twelve fifteen and eighteen things to move in chunks of
three hundred. You can spend two grand on some of
these maintenance. Suber Rus probably the worst suber Us at
sixty thousand miles. It's a major service. It's a lot
of work if you're doing it by the book, and
then if you're doing it by real world, the combination,
you know, like what does it need, where's the environment,
what's it operating in? But you don't really see the
(08:29):
value in that until much later, until you look down
at the odometer and you go, wow, the car's got
one hundred and forty thousand miles on it. It feels
really good, Like, I guess the money I spent a
sixty thousand got me here, and so does that proper
oil change? And somebody's gonna write me. Some internet troll
(08:50):
is going to write me and say, ron, I changed
my own oil and my car's got two hundred thousand
miles on it. Yeah, great, you're the guy. You're the
But the majority of people, because understand whom my area are,
and says my audience, the majority of my audience does
not do their own oil changes. They go somewhere and
they listen to the man behind the counter, and I'm
just trying to explain to them what they should be
looking for. To that man behind the counter, much like
(09:13):
they look to that man behind the counter to get
a good bagel. I've never heard anybody walk in and
say I need a dozen bagels. I want the coldest,
hardest tales. A matter of fact, give me yesterday's bagels.
That's what I want to pay for today. No, everybody
wants hot, fresh bagels. They always walk and say, hey,
the bagel's fresh. Is the oil change any good? How
good do you do an oil change? Somebody emailed me
(09:35):
this week and they wanted a price on something. Hey,
can you give me a price quote on I don't
even know what it was because I didn't give it
really much of a thought because they didn't even tell
me what kind of vehicle it was, which made the
whole point conversation kind of ridiculous. But nobody asked me,
and nobody ever really asks me, how well do I
do this repair? What effort goes into this repair? Am
(09:57):
I qualified to do this repair? They just assumed, because
probably because their father did it forty five years ago
and he's dead now. But you know, his father told
him the story when he was sitting on his lap
when he was seven, and he remembers that fifty years later.
It's gonna be a good hour. Eight five, five, five,
six oh nine nine zero zero. Come on back, let's
talk about it. I'm ronnin Eny and the car doctor. Okay,
(10:23):
I'm calm. See I start talking about oil changes, and
I get a little off the rails. It just because
I compare everyday life to cars, and I just look
at the inequality, and I don't think we understand it.
Because order repairs a vital, vital part of our society.
Let's talk to Billy in Colorado. Billy, talk to me.
(10:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Hey, Ron, good to talk to you, you two, sir.
So this one's got a sordid backstory. I'll keep it
as short as I can. It's a two thousand and
six pathfinder with the four leader V six right. Came
to me two years ago, needed new primary cats, and
uh so, the the good ones were twenty four hundred,
(11:06):
the cheap ones verse seven hundred. So I took a
chance on the cheap ones. That's a mistake I'll never
make again. And uh so, just.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Out of curiosity, Just out of curiosity, Billy, is there
any do you recall? Is there any physical difference between
the aftermarket cat versus the O wee cat and say.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, and in manufacturing quality, don't even get me started.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
It didn't.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You get what you paid for, right, Oh?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
If that ye? So at that time when I first
did the work, the timing chain had a nasty rattle
to it did not have the vacuum supercharger wine and
the owner decided to keep putting that off. So it
comes back to me a month ago, two years after
(11:55):
the original repair, and it was it had a PO
three hundred and reduced power. And I knew what the
problem was before I even looked at the car, just
as it as it pulled up to my house, I
could hear the blown exhaust gasket. It blew out between
(12:16):
the primary and secondary cats because the packing that holds
the element in the metal housing disintegrated and clogged the
secondary cat and the pressure just blew out the gasket
in between. So the cat was still under warranty because
it's a cow cat, which is required to Colorado right,
(12:37):
And so replaced the primary cat, got it the secondary
cat and put it back together and it ran great
for a month. Just came back with the same symptoms
as far as the PO three hundred and reduced power.
(12:58):
And when it came months ago, the the timing chain
noise had gotten much worse. Clank and rattles is awful.
So we were talking about doing it, and it was
getting close to the point where he thought he might.
You know, he's kind of go, no.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Go on the cars man, how many how many miles
on the car?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Two and fifty?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Right?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And uh So, anyway, it it comes in yesterday and
same symptoms except no exhaust leak and the clank and
rattle is horrible. I'm like, you know, it could be
another cat problem somehow, or it could finally be having
you know, failure from the timing chain. So to check
(13:42):
for exhaust blockage, I did a man of a vacuum
test and it passed. It's you know, getting normal response
on the vacuum.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What was MANIFL vacuum bill at Idle.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Well, so it's a it's sixteen. Remember we get lower vacuums.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, you're you're because you're Europe in the mountains. Sure.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
Sure, it was sixteen at Idol and then it went
up to about seventeen at about two to three thousand
r pm.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Still seems low. I have to tell you know, even
with raised elevation, that still seems off by a couple
of points.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Right, Well, you know it's you know, it's not It's
not in your car, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I'm just saying i'd be curious,
you know, you might want to you might want to
just do a quick vacuum test on something else of
similar lineage, just to compare, just for curiosity sake. All right,
that's that's that's number one. Is it using coolant at all?
Are you going through any coolant?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, So so the real question is, you know it's misfiring.
Which comes first? Is the cat melting?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Is it damaged from something? Or is it is it
misfiring causing the cat failure? Which came first? The chicken
or the egg?
Speaker 6 (14:56):
So the the cat that I replaced, uh the second
time is on the left bank, and it's adding fuel
on the left bank. So that's almost certainly where the
mysfires are coming from.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And what is the what is the difference in fuel
trim left or right bill?
Speaker 6 (15:17):
It's adding it's basically zero on the right bank, and
it's uh it's adding like uh ten to fifteen percent
on the left bank.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's that's a pretty good that's a pretty good off
base measurement. So what that's what that's telling me is
the left side of the motor is running lean.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Yes, or or you know that you know, it's just
it's mysfiring. So you've got both, you know, unburnt.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Fuel and oxygen. Sure oxygen? Is it? Is it physically
misfiring at the time that you're doing your fuel trim measurement?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Oh yeah, listening run runs like uh runs badly?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Gotcha? Thank you? I gotcha?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, So it's got a it's got a physical miss
So has it identified anyone but ticular cylinder more sowers.
It's just a P zero three hundred.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Just three hundred. And I did a load balance test
power balance test, and nothing jumped out at me.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, and I don't know if it's accurate to do
that now, because if you've got the physical misfire, does
it have a good cat on it or a bad
cat on it? Now?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Right?
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Well, I mean that's you know, basically, I want to
figure out what tests I can do, you know, before
I tear open the exhaust again to find out.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I would want to do. You own a borscope sure.
Can we look at can we look at the piston
tops or the intake valves left bank to right bank.
I'm wondering, if I'm wondering if this engine is burning oil,
I'll ask I don't think so. You wonder if he
knows he has mentioned it? You know, it might maybe
(16:53):
it's burning two quarts of oil in between his five
thousand mile oil change intervals? Or is the next question?
What is his oil drain interval? Right? How often does
he change the oil?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
You know, I honestly don't know, and that sort of.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Comes to mind. So do this because I'm gonna run
out of clock. Let's borescope it. Do we have carbon
deposits left to right? What's an oil consumption issue? If
we pressurize the cooling system, plugs out, pressurize the cooling system,
come back in the morning. If we look with our borescope,
do we see coolant in any of the cylinders on
the left side? We probably won't, but we'll eliminate the fact.
(17:30):
Could we have a cep head guests gut on one
side versus the other, causing coolant leaks causing the cat
to self destruct. Let's start looking for the good and
the bed. I'll talk to you next week, Billy. I
always appreciate our conversations. I'm running eny in the car doctor.
I'll be back at eight five five five six zero
nine nine zero zero right after.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
This from the ctreet to the oven rule tonight. If
you run his head, Ron will keep you all right. Yeah,
(18:13):
he's a car doctor.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Car advisor. I didn't know we had a full band
in the green room back there. I didn't realize the
studio was that big. Did you guys had a wing
that I didn't say. You weren't looking well, I'll tell
you what, boy, just they're really because I heard some
(18:40):
noise in the background over here at corporate headquarters, and
I guess it was the band warming up. I don't
tell the American public, they'll complain. Let's go to Greg
and Florida. Greg, Yes, sir, how are you?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Hey? I'm blessed. How are you?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm good man? What's going on?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Hey? Yeah, I talked to you.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
I think it was three weeks ago about my should
be van and the quadrijet carburetor that was having hot
start issues, right, and I, uh, well, I want to
correct something I said. I've been working on it for
trying to fix it for eleven years. But the truth
is I haven't had it author a part in at
least five years, maybe six or seven. But I've been
thinking about fixing it right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, thinking counts, right, thinking counts. Sometimes sometimes we get
credit for enthusiasm. So uh huh, So you took it
apart and you tried to rebuild it, or you rebuilt it,
or where does it stand now?
Speaker 7 (19:32):
I decided to do another kid on it. H And
I had got it apart, and the needle valve was
one of the worst one, maybe the worst one I
ever saw. I don't know how it even ran. The
needle valve looked terrible on right. So you know, maybe
when I fixed it five or six years ago, it's
probably gotten worse over the years.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Did you did you happen to look at what I suggested?
I think this is the car where I talked about
the solder plugs in the base of the carburet coming loose.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
Well, I looked at them and they looked fine, they
looked solid, but I epoxied them anyway, and uh oh,
and I put a metal brass float in at this time.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Okay, and you're gonna tell me you're gonna tell me
it got better, but it's still it's still it's still floods.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
Well, it's better, but I don't want to say it's
flooding now because I haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Seen any black smoke.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Okay, it's starting a little easier, so I'm thinking maybe
it's my spark plugs.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, have you put plugs in it since you rebuilt
the carburetor?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have you driven it since you rebuilt the carburetor?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Have you gotten the engine up to running temperature and
taken it for a you know, an hour's ride?
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, I've driven it all right.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Have you pulled the plug?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Got an hour? But you know you have you metes?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Have you pulled the plug yet?
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Well?
Speaker 7 (20:52):
I pulled out number eight because I've had an oil
fouling issue in the past, but I'm running an engine attitude.
That's the oil consumption down a lot on it, right,
And the number eight plug didn't have any oil on it.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
It had had some fuel deposits.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Okay, was it was it?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
And I put it back in?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Was it wettish?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Didn't know it was? It was dry?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Okay. Did it look black?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
No, it was clean looking it.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
Like I said, it just had some light colored fuel
deposits on it.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What are what are fuel deposits? Greg? I don't think
I've ever heard that term.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
They're like, uh, a real fine build up. I kind
of like a rock is kind of. They're kind of
like cement, but like an alabaster color.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You sure that's not oil?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, I'm sure it's not oil?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay? Are you consuming? Does it? Does this engine burn oil?
Speaker 7 (21:47):
The use of some but like I said, when I
started using the added of that, it cut it way down.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, all right, so where does it stand now? What's
the question?
Speaker 7 (21:56):
Uh, I'm still having a little bit of issue with
the hot starts. I'm not getting the black smoke. And well,
I wanted to ask you about the spark plug. See
the ones I got in there are n gk iridium, right,
so I'm suspecting those, but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well what kind of well, let's let's what kind of
shape is the rest of the ignition system? And this
seventy five was the second year for CHI. If I
recall correctly, this has some type of electronic ignition in it. Correct?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah, it's got a HI right, and you.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Know how old are the wires? What kind of shape
is the is the cap and rotor in? If you
tell me you replaced it, my next question is going
to be whose were they? Was it good quality? Have
you purchased a spark tester from your local otoparts house
and look to see will this thing? You know, will
it jump a gap of forty thousands? Will it? Will
(22:49):
it jump a gap of fifty thousands?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Well?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You know, will it produce? Will that ignition coil that's
fifty two years old produce enough spark to fire this
cold engine to get into those conversations in your head?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Right?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Right?
Speaker 7 (23:03):
It sounds like something worth considering it. It's got Packard
spark plug wires on it. I don't know if those
are any good or not.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I think those are original.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
Oh well, no, I put them on there. I've changed wires,
the plug wires on it twice since I've had it.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay, how long god you do them?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Uh? Probably been five or six years at least, But
it hasn't had that many miles on it.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, Packard's a good product, But again, I would
start testing things before I just keep replacing things. Do
you have any kind of a spark tester? Greg, Let's
cut to the chase.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
Well, I got the one where I can hold the
UH wire off from the engine blocking.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, there's there's there's a bunch of there's a bunch
of yeah. One, I mean, there's a bunch of different
ones out there. You can go down to a parts
house and they make it where it alligator clips to
the engine is ground and then the other side plugs
into the spark plug wire and then you can adjust
the gap. So you can adjust and see what'll it reduce?
Thirty thousand volts? Fifty thousand volts, sixty thousand volts. I
(24:04):
believe Hi in seventy five was producing somewhere between thirty
and fifty thousand vaults. And you want to look and
see does it produce that much spark? Can it produce
that much spark?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Right?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
The thing?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
The other thing we're gonna want to be aware of,
and it's easy enough to do in seventy five, is
can we do some kind of a cylinder power balance test?
You know, get it get it hot, get it warm,
make sure you know it just the carburetor as good
as you can, right, does it idle smooth? If you
put a rag you might take two over the top
of the primary side of the carburetor. Does the engine
(24:39):
choke out, does it stall or does the engine speed
increase and run smoother? Meaning and if it does, that
shows me that we've got an internal problem in the carburetor.
Restrict the passageway, fuel in lit problems, something fuel enrichment
that you are cutting off air supply, changing the way
it runs, meaning that even though you rebuilt it and
put a kit and that it really should probably carburetor
(25:02):
should probably go out to somebody that'll do a professional
job and flow it on a bench. All right, So
putting gaskets in and getting a carburetor professionally rebuilt these days,
I think I pointed this out in our first conversation.
Could you have a throttle shaft that's worn? And I'd
be amazed if you didn't. That is allowing a leak
and causing an air problem, and that can be the
(25:25):
cause of a hard start. You know, there's not a
lot here. You've got to eliminate ignition. This is a lawnmower, Greg,
Right here we go. We've got to eliminate ignition. We've
got to eliminate compression mechanical stuff, and we've got to
eliminate fuel. Have you stuck a vacuum gauge on the
engine to see what manifold vacuum is at idle when
the engine's warmed up and running.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
I just did that after rebuilding the carburetor and it's
almost eighteen steady idling.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, that's a good number. I like the number.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You may want to try adjusting mixture with the vacuum
gauge on there and play with it a little bit.
What gives you the best results?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know, you got to remember you're dealing with something
that's fifty one, almost fifty two years old. You can
follow specs and you can follow procedures, but some things
are going to go out the window because some things
have warner age to the point that it's not accounted
for in a factory procedure when the when the engine
in the vehicle was factory fresh, right, right, So a
little bit more fuel, a little bit more or less timing.
(26:27):
But I've got to cover the basics vacuum spark capability
and don't just keep throwing parts at it. And if
you have any doubt, try and find somebody that if
they do rebuild the carburetor ask them, do you flow
bench test the carburetor, meaning they will run a special,
a particular fluid through It's not gasoline, but they run
a fluid through it that has the same density as
(26:49):
gasoline because they're looking for, you know, flow through the
ports and they can actually measure how that carburetor will work.
There used to be guys out there that did that.
Most of them are gone now all right, yeah, you know.
The other option is if you wanted to try it,
if you have a local Where did I get it from?
I found a great carburetor for the Monte Carlo through
Advance Auto Parts. They've got there in line with some
(27:11):
company that's doing rebuilding, and I was impressed. The company
that rebuilt the carburetor, the name escapes me. They're out
of Chicago, bubble wrap, sealed, flow tested. They did it
just right. So do that and you give me a
call back and we can kind of go from there.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
All right, kiddo, are you running the quadrant yet? On
your money Carlo?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Now to GC right now?
Speaker 7 (27:30):
Okay, well, I'm considering putting that on my Chevy Man.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
I've got one.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, I'll tell you what before you do that, Greg,
let's get it running right, and let's get some of
the other things covered first before you start changing parts
and making it worse. Call me back, I'm running any
in the car, doctor. I'll return right after this. Let's
go to Renee in Maine real quick, seventeen PACIFICA. What's
going on Renee?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, so it started back last year. We actually I
was driving down the road and this is where it
all started, is I cracked the subprame on my vehicle,
just driving and just snapped. There was no rust, there
was no nothing. After that, we had to have some
breaks and rotors all around replaced. Obviously we had that done,
(28:17):
and then most recently we had to take it in
for some kind of like what we thought was the
breaks and rotors. Again, the breaks and roaders were done
back in May, mind you, and there was also like
almost kind of like a snapping sound and that like
the front end when you would kind of turn. The
(28:40):
guy couldn't said that our breaks and roaders were fine.
There was no wear or tear on them. He and
we were like, well, you know, this is what's happening
when we when we were breaking after a high speed,
it would shake consistently.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Steering wheel would shake renee.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, it wasn't so No, it wasn't really in the
steering wheel, Like you could feel a slight vibration in
the steering wheel. But the biggest area that we were
finding that we were feeling it is in the floorboard
if okay, your foot was going to go through the floorboard.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Okay, so was the brake pedal pulsing up and down
and you feel it more in the seed of your pants,
but a little bit in the steering wheel.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, not at all. The brake pedal seems to be
very steady. It seems steady. Yeah, it feels like it's
like under the like in the floor.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Okay. So so my concern becomes, you know, you had
some sort of subframe repair or did they replace the subframe.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
That was completely replaced?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Okay, good, that's really what should be done. So then
the next is how is the rest of the front suspension,
Tyrod's ball joints, things like that. Did they go through that?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, we replaced this this feeling that we're feeling. You
can feel it on the passenger side, but you can
mostly feel it on the driver side. We did while
it was in there, getting the brakes and rotors rechecked.
We had both inner and outer tyrod and done on
the passenger side. All brakes, rotors, bushings all look good
(30:19):
according to the shop that we're taking it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, So looking at it and measuring it are two
different things a vehicle. A vehicle can have good looking
brake roadors and thick enough brake pads and still have
a brake rotor that's out of round.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
So here's another thing is because we are breaks, my
husband actually did the brakes and roadors himself, and because
of that, our brake pads and rotors were actually still
under warranty. So to make sure that we covered all bases.
After the tyrod ends were replaced it, we brought it
right home. We took those brake pads of rotors off,
(30:56):
we brought them in and we got brand new, a
brand new set.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
And it still does the same thing.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
And it's still doing the same thing, and.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It only does it when you step on the brake, step.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
On the brake, or sometimes like when we're selling accelerating
up a hill, you know, we notice it like it
like starts to like, you know, just a little bit, the.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Steering wheel starts to shake when you're accelerating up a
hill a little bit, but not as but not as bad. Right, Okay,
there's two things I would like to see done to
this car, all right, I would I would really like
to see somebody put a dial indicator, which is a
very accurate measurement device, on the face of the brake
(31:37):
roaders and spin it, all right. It will give them
the ability to see if something is out of round
and concentric, meaning that it's it's it's spinning square to itself.
All right, So I want to dial indicate the front roaders.
I probably want to dial indicate the front hubs, just
because this car had a subframe and a bunch of
other front end work. Is everything square and where it
should be? And I'd like to do that to the
(31:58):
rear of the vehicle, all right? And then I'd like
to make sure do we have are the motor and
trans mounts correct because they had the subframe down, Is
everything tight? Is everything in line? And did they do
an alignment to this vehicle? And what does the alignment
look like?
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
We did actually when we had the tyron ends in there,
they did an alignment as well.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, yeah, then let's do those things that I just
discussed and you give me a call back and you
let me know what they're saying. We can go further
if we have to, but I think you're going to
find an answer with one of those two tests. I
appreciate it. Renee, good luck. Let me know. I'm ronnin
Andy and the Car Doctor. I'll be back right after
this feedback this hour, Todd writes in Todd's a Technician.
(32:43):
Writing in he says, Hey, I'm listening to the show.
I want to tell you, for the guy with the
Chevy Van that the spec is sixty to eighty thousand volts,
and if it doesn't jump either one of those, or
it doesn't jump eighty at a max, then the coil
is no good. I get it. I think some of
the early ones were less Todd, but I appreciate the thought. It's,
you know, fifty two years ago. It was a long time,
but let's get him started using a spark tester and
see if he can do that, and maybe that'll kind
(33:05):
of push things along and help get him going in
the right direction. But I appreciate your sharing your memories
right because that was a while ago. And Dodge writes
in talking about the band needs to start playing some
different songs, one of which is Run's oil change is
Gonna cost You. I think we're gonna move Dodge over
to the cheap oil change side of things because Dodge
doesn't want to pay for service and quality. Dodge wants
(33:25):
to do it the cheap way. But we say that
with love, like I know Dodge writes his emails with love, because,
after all, while else would he be listening to the
show just to aggravate me. Nah, I don't think so.
But any event, I hope you got something out of
this hour. I know I did, and I was glad
to help everybody where I could. And I think you've
got to remember when we're giving out test specs and
we talk about things to do, and we're just trying
(33:46):
to get you guys back on the point of testing,
not guessing, and trying to you know what's good, what's bad,
and stop instead of looking just for what's bad till
the next time I'm running any In the card Doctor,
the mechanics aren't expensive, They're priceless.
Host
Ron Ananian
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