Sunroof Drains, Honest Oil Changes & a Flash-Fixed Buick
Quick hits this week: why sunroof drains are “house gutters” for your car, the oil-change must-dos most shops skip (clean work, proper torque, new crush washers), and a Chevy 2500 6.6L gas with rising oil consumption—what to ask the dealer and why it can cook cats/O2 sensors. Plus, a 2013 Buick’s harsh “slam into Drive” solved by the second factory software update (Opus IVS). Next week: Mercedes-AMG with Matt DeLorenzo.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian the Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred. Here direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow
dot com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now,
start your engines. The Car Doctor is in the garage
(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So where do we begin this hour at eight five
five five six on nine nine zero zero. A couple
of new videos up on the YouTube channel. By the way,
I failed to mention it last hour. We've got one
up there. I think it's up now or it's coming tomorrow.
The one about sunroof drains where we talk a little
bit about sunroof maintenance and some of the things to
look for, some of the simple things you can do
because you're in that time of year. We're in that
time of year when leaves and sticks and all the
(01:12):
junk seems to fall out of the sky and everybody
ends up with clogged sunroof drains and you know, gee,
I've got these couple of thousand dollars worth of wet
interior to deal with, and how do I deal with it?
And you know, as I point out to everybody, a
sunroof is a calculated water leak.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's I can prove it to you in one simple thought.
If a sunroof isn't designed to leak water, then why
do they put drains in them? Because nobody drives around
with the sunroof opening a rain storm. So you know,
you've got to start thinking about sunroof train maintenances. Like
the gutters on the house. It's got to be cleared out.
Let's so that's coming up on YouTube. It's not there now,
it'll be there tomorrow. So I speak to the guys. Anyway,
(01:46):
let's let's get going, because we've got a bunch of one,
two through or five, six Okay, let's go to Tim.
Let's go to Tim in Pennsylvania. We're gonna talk about
oil changes. So go ahead, Tim, share your thoughts. What's
going on, babe?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I used to do my own oil changes, you know,
to save some money back in the old ays. But
the last all, maybe you know, ten years, I go
to the dealer. I tell you my last, my last
trip to the dealer for an oil change. This is
a Honda took it the end. Now, when I when
I washed my cars about twice a year, I'll take
(02:19):
the wheels off. They're the wheels. They're not you know,
steel wheels with a wheel covers. These are in a
solid wheel. So I like take them off and clean
them up in the back, you know, and make sure
they're good to go. And so I rotate the tires
while I'm doing that. Of course, so I go into
the dealership and I say, change the oil and filter.
Don't rotate the tires. I just did that yesterday. So
(02:42):
fast forward. He says, your car's done. He said, we
changed the oil and rotated the tires. I said, hey,
you know, I asked you not to do that. He said,
I'm sorry. He said, we'll put them back to the
way they were. Who knows, you know, so long In short,
he comes back and it's all done, and he says.
I start to reach for my wallet and he said,
(03:04):
there's no charge for the oil change. I said, excuse me,
He said, oh yeah, he said, since we messed up
and rotated your tires, he said, you know we're not
going to change it for the oil change an honorable shop, yes,
And I said, well, I appreciate that. I said, well,
it's not that big a deal. I'd rather pay for
my oil change, right he said. He insisted, no, no, nope.
(03:24):
So about a week later, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I was going to say, so you're honorable as well. See,
you're the kind of guy that you get it right.
You're willing to pay for good quality service and if
they make a mistake, because people make mistakes. That's why
there's erasers on pencils, right, they stand up and they
make good on it. You were going to say something
to him.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, I have this saying. I say, you know, if
for one person to get something for nothing, somebody else
has to get nothing for something, right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, And that's the absolute truth. I think I get
frosty about oil changes because we'll see new customers come
in from other shops or somebody come in and we'll
do an oil oil change. It's rare when we see
an oil change done right by a previous shop. And
I'm not sure if we're just too picky or and
I'm not bragging about us. I just it's just simple
obvious things. We'll see oil changes that you know, there's
(04:13):
oil running down the frame, there's oil that's slopped and
left over, there's oil filters that are loose, there's drain
plug caskets that aren't changed. There's there's no way any
care or consideration was given when that oil change was done,
because it's done poorly. And you know, what are we
paying for. If we're going to pay for it, let's
get it done right. If we're going to do it
(04:34):
cock eyed, then let's not do it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And you had mentioned a back to crush washers. Yep. Well,
after a week after my oil change, I noticed a
little pool of oil on my garage floor. I touch
it and it's obviously clean engine oil. So we don't
put many miles on the car, so you know, we
hadn't driven very far but so well, but it happened
(05:00):
is the crush crush washer had failed either at you know,
who knows it Maybe wasn't maybe it was overtightened like
you talked about.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Or maybe it wasn't, or maybe it wasn't changed.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Uh that's yeah, that's possible. So I go back to
the dealer and he takes it back and he dropped.
You know, they have that that engine cover underneath that
aluminum cover. What had happened enough leaked out and it
laid in that pan until it found a hole and
then started to drip through. So he says, you know,
(05:35):
we cleaned that pan really well for you replace the
engine oil completely. Uh, of course, you know what it's like.
You take that drain plug at you know you're gonna
get oil.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's all gone at that point. And and yes, you know,
i'd be curious if you look on your invoice, your
original invoice. Well you didn't get one, right, No.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yes, I still got to an invoice said no charge.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I wonder if the drain plug gasket is on there
at no charge. See, because because a repair shop in
a modern age where we use computers, if they're pulling
a part out of inventory, they always put it on
the they have to put it on the order so
that the computer knows to pull it down, so they
need to reorder when it hits the magic number. So,
(06:22):
for example, if I stock fifty Honda drain plug gaskets,
and I probably stock one hundred because it's such a
common number. If I stock one hundred, every time I
use one, I put it on the order because we
charge for it, and it pulls one down. And then
when it hits a certain number, when it hits twenty,
when I've got twenty left, we reorder eighty, so we
maintain one hundred. So I'm always curious, is that is
(06:45):
any drain plug gasket if the vehicle calls for it
on the invoice, Because if it's not on the invoice,
either they're giving it to me for free out of
the kindness of their heart, or they're not changing it,
And you know which is it? And I'm always curious.
Certain gms don't take drain plug gaskets anymore. Certain fours
don't take drainplug gaskets anymore. Every Honda I've ever worked
(07:08):
on takes a drain plug gasket, and I'd be curious
if they changed that one.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Now I have to check that that invoice. You know,
it's for me when I was doing it. You know,
why would you not do something for back then? It
was probably a fifty cent item?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right right?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Right? People would change your engine oil but leave the
same filter in. You know, I always say, why would
you put half a quarter of dirty oil in with
the new right?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well? Yeah, it's you know, Tim, it's mind boggling to
me that when we look at the price of a vehicle,
how much is a replacement vehicle for you? Now, Tim,
if you were going out and buy a car today,
what's your budget? What are you going to spend thirty
forty fifty.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
For my Honda? Probably twenty six? Okay to handa Civic?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, so you're buying a basic model, your mid grade? Yeah?
Well have you have you have you priced a new
Civic lately? Are they only twenty two?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
This is a twenty four?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Okay? Oh okay, all right, so jeez, are only twenty six?
See here in New Jersey? I bet you that's a
thirty thousand dollars car. Because New Jersey just somehow they
find these things to charge us for. I haven't quite
figured it out yet when I look at prices of cars,
but it's still twenty six right, it's twenty six thousand
dollars once you put a dollar dream plug gasket on it,
(08:20):
exactly right, because it's it's And then if you get
into something more, you know, how much isn't a court?
How much is a CRV? You know we see upwards
of some cars thirty five to forty thousand dollars in
a simple oil change. You know, it's it's it's just
such an important part of the maintenance plan that it
keeps that vehicle running to two hundred thousand miles? How
many what did you drive before this? Tim And then
(08:43):
I'll let you go. I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
It was a twenty sixteen onto Civic.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
How many miles did you have on it?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I had ninety six thousand, and I just I wanted
a change, right.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Hey, you know what, I get that right. Sometimes we
see the bells and whistles on the newer car. We
want the next shiny penny. I understand that one hundred percent.
So you know, I get that one hundred percent. And
I always say life's too short. If you can afford it,
do it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
But you know, back in the day when I was
doing work and big work, like that. You know, we'd
put a clutch in a car, you know, and it's
the same same principle. You know, why would you not
replace the throat bearing if you had that all taken apart,
why wouldn't you replace the throughout bearing at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Sometimes the thinking is the factory port might be better
than the replacement part, depends on what we're changing. And
then sometimes the thinking is we're cheap and we don't
want to and you know, it's it's kind of like people,
and I'm sorry, I got to call it right. There's
people out there that'll do brake pads without replacing rotors,
(09:54):
and they'll they'll yell at me all day long how
they've been doing it for years and they never have
an issue, and you know, the breaks always seem to work.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
My answer is, well, how do you know they won't
work better if you properly break them in, Properly break
them in on a break roader that's been scored and
cross hatched and designed to seat the pads correctly. You
don't know, we don't know, we don't know. I will
say that udoy pair is a very exact science done
in an unexact manner in multiple places around this great
(10:23):
country of ours, and I always wonder how much better
things would be and how much longer cars would run
if they were done properly all the way. And I'll
leave it there, all right, sir?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
All right, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Tim. Good luck to you in yours. Eight five five
five six oh nine nine zero zero run An aiming
the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this. Hey,
let's go to Russell and then I want to go
talk to Tom somewhere around in the rest of this hour.
But any event, let's go to Russell up in Maine first, Russell.
Run An Aiming the car Doctor. At your service, sir,
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:55):
So I've been driving chevyes for years and that's all
I buy, and fourteen thousand miles on it has the
six to sixth gas engine in it, right, and between
oil changes, I'm losing two to three courts of of
oil between oil changes.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What's your oil? What's your oil change in of oil? Russell?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
What is your oil change interval?
Speaker 5 (11:23):
It's I think it's like five thousand whatever it is
on the thing when you reset it and it tells
you to change oil on that time, because it can.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It can be. Don't assume, I mean I would look
at it. Are they giving you a sticker when they're
doing the service.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No, I do all my own oil changes.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Okay, so you know they can they can. Yeah, all right,
So you're doing it every five thousand miles and you're
losing two to three courts. You've seen GM bulletin and
I've got a number for you if you want to
write it down, sure, okay, three dash oh six dash
show one dash O twenty three l okay, all right.
(12:00):
And it talks about higher than normal engine oil consumption.
Are you eighty six hundred GVW and above?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What's the what's the gross vehicle weight rating?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
It's the three quarter ton.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I don't know what I think you are, So I
think you are probably eighty six hundred and above. There
is an oil consumption test as outlined in that bulletin,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you point blank, I
think that's too high. And I drive that same truck.
I own that same truck, all right, Yeah, I have
a twenty two Silverado HD sixty six twenty five hundred,
et cetera. And I haven't had that problem yet knock Wood.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I only have I
only have forty thousand miles on it now, right, and
I've done every one of the oil changes, and it's
odd to me. Like I said, I I had the
six ozero before, I've had all the five threes. I've
never had a problem like that, right, So I like it.
I don't see it leaking anywhere.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I I think I don't know what powertrain coverage is
on that, but I mean you're close to it. I know,
I know base coverage was three thirty six and you're
just on the cusp of getting out. But I would
I would, I would just make a fuss about it
now before you go any further down the road. And
if that bolton in hand, because they're going to start
to and understand I've read the bullet in because it's
(13:18):
my own truck. I remember it. And they start to
talk about Kaka Mamy, things like, well, we're gonna start
talking about quarts of oil consumed versus how many pounds
of fuel burned. I'm thinking, what we're gonna you know,
I don't understand so we've now come up with another
Kaka Mamy way to understand and explain why oil consumption
(13:39):
is okay, you know, and it's not just the oil consumption.
Frankly Russell, I almost don't care about the court of oil,
all right. It's it's it's the damage it's doing to
the rest of the vehicle, the oxygen sensors, the catalytic converters.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Well, that's what I'm thinking. It's going out the exhaust right,
getting down in there somewhere. It's got to be causing some.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Because it's going out and it's becoming carbon on the
strata of the catalytic converter, and that's going to become
an issue long long term. It's you know, that's a problem.
And yeah, now I haven't seen this as a common problem.
I've seen this on a few you fall into that
category unfortunately. So you know, whether there's a fix for it,
(14:22):
whether they're they're just going to say, well, you know,
it's okay, I don't know, right, but you know that's
the bulletin. For them to write a bulletin means they've
had more than a few problems, know that going in, right,
They don't write they don't write bulletins just for the
sake of doing it. Because for a car company, think
about what goes into writing a bulletin. Right, Hey, if
(14:43):
you own this vehicle, here's the potential problem, here's the
potential solution. They have to go through. They have to
go through engineering. First of all, somebody has to write it.
Then they have to go through engineering. Then they have
to go through legal. Right, think of all the things
a car company would have to run past a bunch
of lawyers to just fight, Hey, we're gonna put this
notice out and tell us that it's okay, that we're
not going to get sued, that we're not going to
(15:04):
lose our shirts, that we're not going to you know,
be in court five thousand times because of this bulletin,
et cetera, et cetera. So for them to publish a bulletin,
more than two guys have the problem, and you know
it's it's let me ask you this the oil that
you're using. I'm just gonna ask some dumb questions if
I can. Obviously, it's the right viscosity. Obviously, it's it's
(15:29):
dexos rated.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
It's SAE five W thirty right, yep.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But Dexos.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Okay, all right, and that's an eight court system if
I recall correctly, right, yes, yeah, yes, maybe that's why
they think two quarts is okay.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Yeah, But this last one, that's why I'm calling. Because
the last oil cheams I did three courts. Three courts.
I was like, wow, I've done two quarts before. It
was three quarts of this last yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So whatever, whatever it is, it's getting worse. And I
think you're probably going to start with the dealer. You're
going to end up at the corporate level, because you're
probably going to have to call somebody a corporate and
say you want an oil consumption test and tell them, Hey,
I'm a lifelong Chevy fan. I've been driving Chevy's for
the last twenty five years, and this is the first
one I've got a problem with. Open your mouth, as
(16:16):
Mom would say, you know, don't be afraid. You know,
it's interesting in business, and I'm small business, right, but
it's interesting, you know. I look at something as a warranty.
Customers will come in with their invoices in hand, and
I kind of laughed at him and say, you don't
need an invoice. I remember doing the job. It was
two and a half years ago. You got you got
(16:37):
fifteen thousand miles out of it. You're three thousand miles past.
You should have gotten thirty thousand miles out of it. Right,
and you always do the right thing, and that's what
you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That's say, you're gonna find out who these people are.
You're gonna find out what GM is all about. You know, Gee, Russell,
We're sorry you went through this. We're gonna you know,
we're going to warranty this. We're gonna find out. We're
gonna get to the root cause of it. Car company
somewhere down the line or maybe even now, have got
to realize that they can't continue to I'm gonna say, cheat,
(17:08):
cheat the American consumer people have had.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Especially with the price of vehicles these days. A truck
like that, you know, it's like fifty sixty dollars, A
truck like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
That is Yeah, is that a WT or what? What?
What body style is that?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
It's the custom it's four door, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That's a that's a that's probably a sixty five seventy
thousand dollars truck. Now it's it's nuts. So do that
you're armed with the bulletin. Russell, you got some knowledge,
call me back, let me know what they Let me
know what they tell you. And Gay is another vehicle owner.
I'm kind of curious myself, but you keep you keep
fighting the fight, Russell. Let me know what happens. I'm
ron an Ady and the car doctor. We'll be back
(17:43):
right after this.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
From the city street. It's to the open road tonight. Hell, Ronald,
keep you roll right.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Enough? Thank you back in the green room. So let's
let's go to Rochelle and then we'll come to Tom
in Wisconsin. Rochelle, how can I help you? Am I
saying that name right?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Rochelle? Okay, how can I help you there?
Speaker 4 (18:34):
So? I got a twenty seventeen Jeep Compass and I
bought it new. It's got the bodystyll as Bees. They
switched the body styles right in the middle of the year.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
But I've never had to put brakes on it. Yeah,
this is the first time. I got one hundred and
forty two thousand miles on it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
But I always take it into the dealership to get
the oil changed because I still have a warranty that
I bought the extended warranty. So I took it in.
They did the oil change and inspection, and the roter
was warped. I could feel a little bit of the shimmy,
you know. And I asked them about it, and they said,
completely safe. You got over half your break life left,
(19:11):
don't worry about it. Three weeks later, I got metal
on metal, but they quoted me nine hundred and seventy
dollars for two front breaks and rotors. So and I'm like, well, crap,
I don't have that. So I called around and I
found an actual break especialty place and I got it
for five hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So let me ask you this question. Your extended warranty
does it or really break doesn't cover breaks? Okay, now,
so that being said, all right, unless your warranty policy
says something contrary. Most extended warranties and most base warranties
don't require you to service a vehicle at the dealership.
(19:52):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I know, I know, I just you're trying to build
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well yeah, yeah, you're trying to build a relationship so
that when you I do have a problem, they go in.
You go in, and you know, they know, hey, it's Rochelle.
They're going to take care of me right right now.
How do you feel? Oh?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I really feel that because I'm a woman, they quoted
me in an unreasonable price, thinking that I'm going to
pay it because this is the only place I go.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Right. Well, that and they've shown you that they're incompetent. Yeah,
don't don't.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Rule higher college kids. And the breaks place that I
went to, they showed me the little gauge thing that
you use to measure the brakes and they're like, it's
so simple to use yep. And I'm like, how did
they mess this up?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Congratulations you found a bad repair shop or they were
you know, and I can't say, I can't say give
them a second chance. They were having a bad day.
You know what. There's too much, there's too much at stake.
There's there's you know, when somebody's car is on the lift.
You know what, I hold your life in my hands.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Well, and I'm I'm a transport driver off, so I
transport people back and forth to hospital and stuff, right,
and they know that.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, and your your time is important, your skill level
is important, and your life is important. Obviously. Yeah, Unfortunately,
bad experience and you may want to write and talk
to the front of the you know, the owner. Talk
to the front of the horses. My dad used to say,
and let them let them know why you won't be
coming back because of this concern, and see how they
handle it. You never know, you never know what they
(21:19):
might do.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
But you think, sorry, should I just drop it?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
H What do you feel best about? Is it going
to eat at you?
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Well, I've been so angry. I haven't been wanting I
want to call him, but I've been so angry. I
don't want to blow Why don't.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
You, Why don't you? Why don't you write a letter?
I like writing. I like writing letters because I can
sit down, I can have a cup of coffee, a
cup of tea whatever, a doughnut, a little it is
a little rite. Write my letter. I can get my
thoughts straight. I can I can say what I want
to say clearly. And then I would find out who
(21:54):
the owner of the dealership or the general manager is
and send it to him spence seven bucks, send it
to him certified mail, right, and then you know he
got it. And if they ignore you, oh, then you've
got a reason to pursue it further. Maybe deceptive fraud practices,
et cetera with the attorney general of your state. Maybe
(22:16):
just a bad review on the website. Hey, I took
these steps. Nobody can ever argue with a rational approach right.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Nobody can ever write I have wanted to when I
was right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I took these steps. This is what happened. You know,
whether it's because I'm a woman with it's because they
don't like people with blue eyes, green eyes, red eyes, whatever,
just because maybe they were having a bad day. Not acceptable,
But whatever it happened, I'm asking I'm asking you to
make it right. I'm asking you to look at it
from my perspective that I come to you because I
trust you, I count on your professionalism, and when I
(22:48):
needed you the most, you let me down. You want
me to write the letter, that great, all right, but
that's you know, that's what. Don't be emotional. You know
you need to talk about, say, you need to talk
about how you trusted them up to this point and
they've lost one soldier, so to speak, all right, and
see how they react. Don't be accusatory. It's it's funny
(23:11):
how businesses react, right. You know, maybe dealer parts are
more money I'd have to look the job up. To me,
that's to me, that's an hour and a half, two
hours worth of labor. What's their labor rate? You know,
go go figure that out. If the dealer's labor rate
is two hundred dollars, so it's four hundred dollars in labor,
is it six hundred dollars in parts? I know parts
(23:33):
have gone up, everything's gone up, and I would think
that's probably not far off the mark. Actually, because I've
seen Chrystler. I've seen I've seen Chrysler rotors. Chrysler break
parts are through the roof, and I don't understand why.
So I'm not trying to make an excuse for them. Rochelle, Okay,
I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised. We bought a
(23:54):
set of rear rear roadors for of course, that was
a full sized Dodge thirty five hundred Diesel duly pick
up something. Blah blah blah blah blah. I think the
rotors were four hundred dollars a piece or some crazy number. Yeah,
but that's a truck. But even so, all right, how
about a parts breakdown? You know, can you explain it?
(24:15):
To me in English, you know, expertise at the counter. Hey, Rochelle,
you know what our labor rate is two hundred dollars.
It's about two hours for us to do this job.
You can do the math. That's four hundred bucks. And
you know, Chrysler parts are super expensive. Now Chrysler does,
at least Chrysler in this part of the country in
the Northeast, they have an ulterior what they call their
(24:36):
economy line. It's not a bad break rotor, it's not
a bad break pad. We use them all the time.
We've had We've had great success with them. We've had
probably zero comebacks, you know. So it's as my parts
guys tell me, Ron, it's a cheaper alternative to Chrysler
because Chrysler's break parts are just out of site for
some reason. And you know, it kind of makes sense.
(24:59):
It's you know, do you do you need owe stuff
on a on a seventeen jeep summit? I don't think
so as well.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And where I went where I took it at the
actual break dealerships or break specialty place, I would think
they would be more expensive, but they were, you know,
half the price right and also warrantyed for two years.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Right right, So Lesson learned write a letter.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeap, all right, d I will do that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You're very welcome. You'd be well. Tom hasn't. Tom has
an interesting comment about oil changes. I know Tom wants
to get in here today.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
Well, I've been listening to all this stuff about oil
changes and the price of oil changes, and you know,
the price of quality and such. This actually doesn't involve
oil changes. It involves changing in oil company. With my house,
I've been with a company for twenty seven years. Called
to get having to go out and clean the furnace,
and they said okay, and and by the way, here's
(26:00):
what your service contract will be this year. So it
went up one hundred bucks. And it used to cover
everything at one hundred percent. Now I get a whopping
twenty percent off all parts in labor. And I went,
wh wha, wha, wha Wait a minute, you increase the
price of the package and I'm getting less right, And
they said yeah, And I said, well, I'm going to
shop around. Well I found a mom and pop place
(26:21):
across town, and their service contract is just a little
bit more on all what these guys wanted. But it
covers everything one hundred percent, and the woman apologized. She said,
last year it was this. I said, lady, I'm a
small business guy, parts, parts, labor. Everything is up in price.
As I get it, I said, it's not about the
(26:42):
money I want. I want the peace of mind that
I'm not going to get hit with a big bill
if this thing dies.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And as the moral to the story, you're looking for quality.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Looking, I'm looking for quality. I don't care about it. Well,
I care about the price, but I mean, you know,
we're arguing one hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, We're not
arguing ten thousand dollars. Right, It's like, come on, just stop.
So I changed companies and the other company was like, well,
this is this is what we're doing. I said, well,
that's nice. It's not for me.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Have a nice day. They didn't.
Speaker 7 (27:10):
Didn't even try to keep.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Me well and see see, and that's you know, that's
that's the sad part that they don't try to keep you.
So let me ask you this, when the price of
bagels gets to be thirty dollars a dozen, you're still
buying them.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
No, I'm gonna come over to your place when you
buy them.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
By the way, I think we owe Dodge and apology.
I think I misread his letter, so yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
I think he did.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
He was being funny, but you know what he says,
it's your fault. So I'm gonna blame you.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Of course, well shill you find out what we're paying
for that band.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So we're gonna so we're gonna apologize to Dodge, but
we're gonna blame Tom Ray. Let's go to break. I'm
running Andy in the car doctor eight five five five
six oh nine nine zero zero. I'll be back right
after this. You know, you wonder if kids win drag
racing today in like a Prius or an EV or
something with crash avoidance, would dead Man's curve really apply
(28:01):
because you got close to the edge, would it just
sort of bounce you back so you couldn't go over
the guardrail? It wouldn't. Think of what a dramatic movie
cultural type icon that would be fifty years from now
be boring. I want to talk to you about computer flashing.
I don't know where I get these ideas from. I
want to talk to you about computer flashing. Flashing once again.
We had a twenty thirteen buick in the shop this
(28:23):
week and the customer complaint was harsh engagement into drive,
and it was it was true. It came to us
from another shop. The shop had done a couple of
trans services trying to alleviate it. They found a bulletin
that talked about doing flashing. Do a flash update for software.
You know, this is a twelve year old, sixty thousand
(28:44):
mile vehicle. And the customer woke up one day and
one day it worked, and the next day put it
in gear and it banged so hard it would rattle
your fillings. It was just like a you know, hard hit.
I had my doubts. I won't I won't you know,
light to you about it. I had my doubt, said, gee,
how would a software update on something that was good
one day bad the next fix the problem? But you
(29:07):
know what, I think you have to try. I think
computer flashing software updates to a modern vehicle, anything made
in the last twenty years has gotten to the point
that a software update is an important piece of the
diagnostic solution. It really is it. It's just part of
the process. You've got to do it. So we dialed
up our Opus. Of course, we've got an Opus IVF
(29:29):
scan tool set up, and we dialed up and logged
in with them, and they dialed back into the shop
and it's great. I'll tell you, I don't know why
anybody tries doing flashing on their own. If you have
an Opus, you're you're you know, you've got your problem
solved because it's just being done for you. The hardware
is up to date, the software is correct. And we
did the update and it didn't work. And I was
(29:51):
ready to hand the car back to the other shop
and say, you know, we tried, like we agreed, and
it's you know, X number of dollars and it's time
for a trans and then the tech at Opus said,
by the way, there's an internal memo that I'm reading.
Hang on a second, and I waited. There's an internal
memo that says, if you're doing this bulletin and this
software update and it doesn't work, try this bulletin and
(30:15):
this software update. And it's a note from General Motors.
It talks about and it's not a public released memo,
is the way it was explained to me. So if
this doesn't work, try this, so do this update. It's
sort of like, you know, a Windows update. Let's do
this Windows update. If your computer doesn't work right, Well,
try this computer update. The second update fixed the car.
(30:35):
It it it fixed this transmission that you put it
in drive. It was just woof like like factory brand new.
And the shop that we were doing the workforce said,
what did they do to it?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And that's the beauty or that's the horror, depending on
your perspective of software updates. You don't know what they did.
You don't know what the engineer was thinking. You don't
know what they modified, you don't know what they changed.
All you know is you tried and it's fixed. And
that's the world of order repair. That's what order repair
has come to. And I think it's forward thinkers like
(31:10):
the folks over at Opus that are marching us down
this path, that are keeping us current, that are allowing
us to repair all these vehicles because without software updates,
and more importantly, without having the ability to access the
hardware and the software at some sort of economical cost.
You know, you've got to look at that. But I
just wanted to tell you it's a tale of two
(31:31):
software updates. The first one didn't work, the second one
did thanks to Opus. I'm running ady in the car. Doctor,
I'll be back right after this, and we come to
the end of another exclusive hour of the Car Doctor,
and it's been a pleasure to be here with you.
Next week we're going to get to talk to Mett
(31:51):
di Lorenzo. Matt wrote a great book, Mercedes AMG, which
is Mercedes hot rods, right and Mercedes cars and things
like that. And at first you go, oh, come on,
a Mercedes can't be fast. And then you start to
read the book and you listen to Matt and you go, wow,
you know it's it really is a hot rod. And
(32:11):
we're actually going to get an explanation. I'm not even
going to attempt to pronounce it here, but you know, Matt,
in my preliminary interview with him, he did explain to
me what AMG stands for. It's very German and it's
very hard to pronounce. But because I've always looked at
it and said American, No, it's got nothing to do
with it. It's related to the town in Germany where
(32:33):
the whole corporation started some forty or fifty years ago.
But we're going to go through the history of Mercedes.
They're racing prowess, we're going to talk about flying pigs.
That was one of the cars that wasn't supposed to
be as fast as it was and do what it
was supposed to do. But that's next week, and maybe
we'll give this book away. I've got a copy of
it in front of me. It's got my fingerprints all
(32:54):
over it. But it's got some great color pictures and
the complete explanation of what it's all about. So we
got something out of this week. And I guess the
point of all of this this week is, you know,
we've been talking a lot about maintenance. We've been talking
a lot about different kinds of service. Is know what
you're getting, you know, know what you're paying for, Know
what you're getting, and you know understand it's still a machine.
(33:16):
No matter how many computers they hang on it, it
still requires annual maintenance. It still requires some scheduled service.
And you've got to learn to break down the estimates
and don't be afraid to ask, Hey, it's like the
one Lady Rochelle with the jeep nine hundred and seventy
dollars for breaks. How many hours of that is labor?
How much of that is parts? Are they factory parts?
(33:38):
And we never even addressed that in our conversation with her,
I just made the assumption. But you know, they could
also be using the economy line of breakpart and double dipping,
as I like to say, And I don't like that,
so always ask for an explanation. How do things break down?
Learn to ask about the price of bagels. If you're
here with me for the first hour, you know what
I'm talking about. You know, learn to under understand why
(34:00):
things are going up, and learn to look at things
from a perspective of is it worth it? And you know,
if it's done right, it probably is. If it's not, well,
then that's a whole other, a whole nother part of
the conversation, because there's nothing worse than getting a very
bad and stale bagel. I'm ronning ay in the car
doctor till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
(34:21):
See you
You're listening to Ron and Nanian the Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, Weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
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zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
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(00:47):
and ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So where do we begin this hour at eight five
five five six on nine nine zero zero. A couple
of new videos up on the YouTube channel. By the way,
I failed to mention it last hour. We've got one
up there. I think it's up now or it's coming tomorrow.
The one about sunroof drains where we talk a little
bit about sunroof maintenance and some of the things to
look for, some of the simple things you can do
because you're in that time of year. We're in that
time of year when leaves and sticks and all the
(01:12):
junk seems to fall out of the sky and everybody
ends up with clogged sunroof drains and you know, gee,
I've got these couple of thousand dollars worth of wet
interior to deal with, and how do I deal with it?
And you know, as I point out to everybody, a
sunroof is a calculated water leak.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's I can prove it to you in one simple thought.
If a sunroof isn't designed to leak water, then why
do they put drains in them? Because nobody drives around
with the sunroof opening a rain storm. So you know,
you've got to start thinking about sunroof train maintenances. Like
the gutters on the house. It's got to be cleared out.
Let's so that's coming up on YouTube. It's not there now,
it'll be there tomorrow. So I speak to the guys. Anyway,
(01:46):
let's let's get going, because we've got a bunch of one,
two through or five, six Okay, let's go to Tim.
Let's go to Tim in Pennsylvania. We're gonna talk about
oil changes. So go ahead, Tim, share your thoughts. What's
going on, babe?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I used to do my own oil changes, you know,
to save some money back in the old ays. But
the last all, maybe you know, ten years, I go
to the dealer. I tell you my last, my last
trip to the dealer for an oil change. This is
a Honda took it the end. Now, when I when
I washed my cars about twice a year, I'll take
(02:19):
the wheels off. They're the wheels. They're not you know,
steel wheels with a wheel covers. These are in a
solid wheel. So I like take them off and clean
them up in the back, you know, and make sure
they're good to go. And so I rotate the tires
while I'm doing that. Of course, so I go into
the dealership and I say, change the oil and filter.
Don't rotate the tires. I just did that yesterday. So
(02:42):
fast forward. He says, your car's done. He said, we
changed the oil and rotated the tires. I said, hey,
you know, I asked you not to do that. He said,
I'm sorry. He said, we'll put them back to the
way they were. Who knows, you know, so long In short,
he comes back and it's all done, and he says.
I start to reach for my wallet and he said,
(03:04):
there's no charge for the oil change. I said, excuse me,
He said, oh yeah, he said, since we messed up
and rotated your tires, he said, you know we're not
going to change it for the oil change an honorable shop, yes,
And I said, well, I appreciate that. I said, well,
it's not that big a deal. I'd rather pay for
my oil change, right he said. He insisted, no, no, nope.
(03:24):
So about a week later, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I was going to say, so you're honorable as well. See,
you're the kind of guy that you get it right.
You're willing to pay for good quality service and if
they make a mistake, because people make mistakes. That's why
there's erasers on pencils, right, they stand up and they
make good on it. You were going to say something
to him.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, I have this saying. I say, you know, if
for one person to get something for nothing, somebody else
has to get nothing for something, right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, And that's the absolute truth. I think I get
frosty about oil changes because we'll see new customers come
in from other shops or somebody come in and we'll
do an oil oil change. It's rare when we see
an oil change done right by a previous shop. And
I'm not sure if we're just too picky or and
I'm not bragging about us. I just it's just simple
obvious things. We'll see oil changes that you know, there's
(04:13):
oil running down the frame, there's oil that's slopped and
left over, there's oil filters that are loose, there's drain
plug caskets that aren't changed. There's there's no way any
care or consideration was given when that oil change was done,
because it's done poorly. And you know, what are we
paying for. If we're going to pay for it, let's
get it done right. If we're going to do it
(04:34):
cock eyed, then let's not do it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And you had mentioned a back to crush washers. Yep. Well,
after a week after my oil change, I noticed a
little pool of oil on my garage floor. I touch
it and it's obviously clean engine oil. So we don't
put many miles on the car, so you know, we
hadn't driven very far but so well, but it happened
(05:00):
is the crush crush washer had failed either at you know,
who knows it Maybe wasn't maybe it was overtightened like
you talked about.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Or maybe it wasn't, or maybe it wasn't changed.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Uh that's yeah, that's possible. So I go back to
the dealer and he takes it back and he dropped.
You know, they have that that engine cover underneath that
aluminum cover. What had happened enough leaked out and it
laid in that pan until it found a hole and
then started to drip through. So he says, you know,
(05:35):
we cleaned that pan really well for you replace the
engine oil completely. Uh, of course, you know what it's like.
You take that drain plug at you know you're gonna
get oil.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's all gone at that point. And and yes, you know,
i'd be curious if you look on your invoice, your
original invoice. Well you didn't get one, right, No.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yes, I still got to an invoice said no charge.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I wonder if the drain plug gasket is on there
at no charge. See, because because a repair shop in
a modern age where we use computers, if they're pulling
a part out of inventory, they always put it on
the they have to put it on the order so
that the computer knows to pull it down, so they
need to reorder when it hits the magic number. So,
(06:22):
for example, if I stock fifty Honda drain plug gaskets,
and I probably stock one hundred because it's such a
common number. If I stock one hundred, every time I
use one, I put it on the order because we
charge for it, and it pulls one down. And then
when it hits a certain number, when it hits twenty,
when I've got twenty left, we reorder eighty, so we
maintain one hundred. So I'm always curious, is that is
(06:45):
any drain plug gasket if the vehicle calls for it
on the invoice, Because if it's not on the invoice,
either they're giving it to me for free out of
the kindness of their heart, or they're not changing it,
And you know which is it? And I'm always curious.
Certain gms don't take drain plug gaskets anymore. Certain fours
don't take drainplug gaskets anymore. Every Honda I've ever worked
(07:08):
on takes a drain plug gasket, and I'd be curious
if they changed that one.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Now I have to check that that invoice. You know,
it's for me when I was doing it. You know,
why would you not do something for back then? It
was probably a fifty cent item?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right right?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Right? People would change your engine oil but leave the
same filter in. You know, I always say, why would
you put half a quarter of dirty oil in with
the new right?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well? Yeah, it's you know, Tim, it's mind boggling to
me that when we look at the price of a vehicle,
how much is a replacement vehicle for you? Now, Tim,
if you were going out and buy a car today,
what's your budget? What are you going to spend thirty
forty fifty.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
For my Honda? Probably twenty six? Okay to handa Civic?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, so you're buying a basic model, your mid grade? Yeah?
Well have you have you have you priced a new
Civic lately? Are they only twenty two?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
This is a twenty four?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Okay? Oh okay, all right, so jeez, are only twenty six?
See here in New Jersey? I bet you that's a
thirty thousand dollars car. Because New Jersey just somehow they
find these things to charge us for. I haven't quite
figured it out yet when I look at prices of cars,
but it's still twenty six right, it's twenty six thousand
dollars once you put a dollar dream plug gasket on it,
(08:20):
exactly right, because it's it's And then if you get
into something more, you know, how much isn't a court?
How much is a CRV? You know we see upwards
of some cars thirty five to forty thousand dollars in
a simple oil change. You know, it's it's it's just
such an important part of the maintenance plan that it
keeps that vehicle running to two hundred thousand miles? How
many what did you drive before this? Tim And then
(08:43):
I'll let you go. I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
It was a twenty sixteen onto Civic.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
How many miles did you have on it?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I had ninety six thousand, and I just I wanted
a change, right.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Hey, you know what, I get that right. Sometimes we
see the bells and whistles on the newer car. We
want the next shiny penny. I understand that one hundred percent.
So you know, I get that one hundred percent. And
I always say life's too short. If you can afford it,
do it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
But you know, back in the day when I was
doing work and big work, like that. You know, we'd
put a clutch in a car, you know, and it's
the same same principle. You know, why would you not
replace the throat bearing if you had that all taken apart,
why wouldn't you replace the throughout bearing at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Sometimes the thinking is the factory port might be better
than the replacement part, depends on what we're changing. And
then sometimes the thinking is we're cheap and we don't
want to and you know, it's it's kind of like people,
and I'm sorry, I got to call it right. There's
people out there that'll do brake pads without replacing rotors,
(09:54):
and they'll they'll yell at me all day long how
they've been doing it for years and they never have
an issue, and you know, the breaks always seem to work.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
My answer is, well, how do you know they won't
work better if you properly break them in, Properly break
them in on a break roader that's been scored and
cross hatched and designed to seat the pads correctly. You
don't know, we don't know, we don't know. I will
say that udoy pair is a very exact science done
in an unexact manner in multiple places around this great
(10:23):
country of ours, and I always wonder how much better
things would be and how much longer cars would run
if they were done properly all the way. And I'll
leave it there, all right, sir?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
All right, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Tim. Good luck to you in yours. Eight five five
five six oh nine nine zero zero run An aiming
the car Doctor. I'll be back right after this. Hey,
let's go to Russell and then I want to go
talk to Tom somewhere around in the rest of this hour.
But any event, let's go to Russell up in Maine first, Russell.
Run An Aiming the car Doctor. At your service, sir,
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:55):
So I've been driving chevyes for years and that's all
I buy, and fourteen thousand miles on it has the
six to sixth gas engine in it, right, and between
oil changes, I'm losing two to three courts of of
oil between oil changes.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What's your oil? What's your oil change in of oil? Russell?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
What is your oil change interval?
Speaker 5 (11:23):
It's I think it's like five thousand whatever it is
on the thing when you reset it and it tells
you to change oil on that time, because it can.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It can be. Don't assume, I mean I would look
at it. Are they giving you a sticker when they're
doing the service.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No, I do all my own oil changes.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Okay, so you know they can they can. Yeah, all right,
So you're doing it every five thousand miles and you're
losing two to three courts. You've seen GM bulletin and
I've got a number for you if you want to
write it down, sure, okay, three dash oh six dash
show one dash O twenty three l okay, all right.
(12:00):
And it talks about higher than normal engine oil consumption.
Are you eighty six hundred GVW and above?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What's the what's the gross vehicle weight rating?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
It's the three quarter ton.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I don't know what I think you are, So I
think you are probably eighty six hundred and above. There
is an oil consumption test as outlined in that bulletin,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you point blank, I
think that's too high. And I drive that same truck.
I own that same truck, all right, Yeah, I have
a twenty two Silverado HD sixty six twenty five hundred,
et cetera. And I haven't had that problem yet knock Wood.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I only have I
only have forty thousand miles on it now, right, and
I've done every one of the oil changes, and it's
odd to me. Like I said, I I had the
six ozero before, I've had all the five threes. I've
never had a problem like that, right, So I like it.
I don't see it leaking anywhere.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I I think I don't know what powertrain coverage is
on that, but I mean you're close to it. I know,
I know base coverage was three thirty six and you're
just on the cusp of getting out. But I would
I would, I would just make a fuss about it
now before you go any further down the road. And
if that bolton in hand, because they're going to start
to and understand I've read the bullet in because it's
(13:18):
my own truck. I remember it. And they start to
talk about Kaka Mamy, things like, well, we're gonna start
talking about quarts of oil consumed versus how many pounds
of fuel burned. I'm thinking, what we're gonna you know,
I don't understand so we've now come up with another
Kaka Mamy way to understand and explain why oil consumption
(13:39):
is okay, you know, and it's not just the oil consumption.
Frankly Russell, I almost don't care about the court of oil,
all right. It's it's it's the damage it's doing to
the rest of the vehicle, the oxygen sensors, the catalytic converters.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Well, that's what I'm thinking. It's going out the exhaust right,
getting down in there somewhere. It's got to be causing some.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Because it's going out and it's becoming carbon on the
strata of the catalytic converter, and that's going to become
an issue long long term. It's you know, that's a problem.
And yeah, now I haven't seen this as a common problem.
I've seen this on a few you fall into that
category unfortunately. So you know, whether there's a fix for it,
(14:22):
whether they're they're just going to say, well, you know,
it's okay, I don't know, right, but you know that's
the bulletin. For them to write a bulletin means they've
had more than a few problems, know that going in, right,
They don't write they don't write bulletins just for the
sake of doing it. Because for a car company, think
about what goes into writing a bulletin. Right, Hey, if
(14:43):
you own this vehicle, here's the potential problem, here's the
potential solution. They have to go through. They have to
go through engineering. First of all, somebody has to write it.
Then they have to go through engineering. Then they have
to go through legal. Right, think of all the things
a car company would have to run past a bunch
of lawyers to just fight, Hey, we're gonna put this
notice out and tell us that it's okay, that we're
not going to get sued, that we're not going to
(15:04):
lose our shirts, that we're not going to you know,
be in court five thousand times because of this bulletin,
et cetera, et cetera. So for them to publish a bulletin,
more than two guys have the problem, and you know
it's it's let me ask you this the oil that
you're using. I'm just gonna ask some dumb questions if
I can. Obviously, it's the right viscosity. Obviously, it's it's
(15:29):
dexos rated.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
It's SAE five W thirty right, yep.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But Dexos.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Okay, all right, and that's an eight court system if
I recall correctly, right, yes, yeah, yes, maybe that's why
they think two quarts is okay.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Yeah, But this last one, that's why I'm calling. Because
the last oil cheams I did three courts. Three courts.
I was like, wow, I've done two quarts before. It
was three quarts of this last yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So whatever, whatever it is, it's getting worse. And I
think you're probably going to start with the dealer. You're
going to end up at the corporate level, because you're
probably going to have to call somebody a corporate and
say you want an oil consumption test and tell them, Hey,
I'm a lifelong Chevy fan. I've been driving Chevy's for
the last twenty five years, and this is the first
one I've got a problem with. Open your mouth, as
(16:16):
Mom would say, you know, don't be afraid. You know,
it's interesting in business, and I'm small business, right, but
it's interesting, you know. I look at something as a warranty.
Customers will come in with their invoices in hand, and
I kind of laughed at him and say, you don't
need an invoice. I remember doing the job. It was
two and a half years ago. You got you got
(16:37):
fifteen thousand miles out of it. You're three thousand miles past.
You should have gotten thirty thousand miles out of it. Right,
and you always do the right thing, and that's what
you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That's say, you're gonna find out who these people are.
You're gonna find out what GM is all about. You know, Gee, Russell,
We're sorry you went through this. We're gonna you know,
we're going to warranty this. We're gonna find out. We're
gonna get to the root cause of it. Car company
somewhere down the line or maybe even now, have got
to realize that they can't continue to I'm gonna say, cheat,
(17:08):
cheat the American consumer people have had.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Especially with the price of vehicles these days. A truck
like that, you know, it's like fifty sixty dollars, A
truck like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
That is Yeah, is that a WT or what? What?
What body style is that?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
It's the custom it's four door, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That's a that's a that's probably a sixty five seventy
thousand dollars truck. Now it's it's nuts. So do that
you're armed with the bulletin. Russell, you got some knowledge,
call me back, let me know what they Let me
know what they tell you. And Gay is another vehicle owner.
I'm kind of curious myself, but you keep you keep
fighting the fight, Russell. Let me know what happens. I'm
ron an Ady and the car doctor. We'll be back
(17:43):
right after this.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
From the city street. It's to the open road tonight. Hell, Ronald,
keep you roll right.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Enough? Thank you back in the green room. So let's
let's go to Rochelle and then we'll come to Tom
in Wisconsin. Rochelle, how can I help you? Am I
saying that name right?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Rochelle? Okay, how can I help you there?
Speaker 4 (18:34):
So? I got a twenty seventeen Jeep Compass and I
bought it new. It's got the bodystyll as Bees. They
switched the body styles right in the middle of the year.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
But I've never had to put brakes on it. Yeah,
this is the first time. I got one hundred and
forty two thousand miles on it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
But I always take it into the dealership to get
the oil changed because I still have a warranty that
I bought the extended warranty. So I took it in.
They did the oil change and inspection, and the roter
was warped. I could feel a little bit of the shimmy,
you know. And I asked them about it, and they said,
completely safe. You got over half your break life left,
(19:11):
don't worry about it. Three weeks later, I got metal
on metal, but they quoted me nine hundred and seventy
dollars for two front breaks and rotors. So and I'm like, well, crap,
I don't have that. So I called around and I
found an actual break especialty place and I got it
for five hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So let me ask you this question. Your extended warranty
does it or really break doesn't cover breaks? Okay, now,
so that being said, all right, unless your warranty policy
says something contrary. Most extended warranties and most base warranties
don't require you to service a vehicle at the dealership.
(19:52):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I know, I know, I just you're trying to build
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well yeah, yeah, you're trying to build a relationship so
that when you I do have a problem, they go in.
You go in, and you know, they know, hey, it's Rochelle.
They're going to take care of me right right now.
How do you feel? Oh?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I really feel that because I'm a woman, they quoted
me in an unreasonable price, thinking that I'm going to
pay it because this is the only place I go.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Right. Well, that and they've shown you that they're incompetent. Yeah,
don't don't.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Rule higher college kids. And the breaks place that I
went to, they showed me the little gauge thing that
you use to measure the brakes and they're like, it's
so simple to use yep. And I'm like, how did
they mess this up?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Congratulations you found a bad repair shop or they were
you know, and I can't say, I can't say give
them a second chance. They were having a bad day.
You know what. There's too much, there's too much at stake.
There's there's you know, when somebody's car is on the lift.
You know what, I hold your life in my hands.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Well, and I'm I'm a transport driver off, so I
transport people back and forth to hospital and stuff, right,
and they know that.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, and your your time is important, your skill level
is important, and your life is important. Obviously. Yeah, Unfortunately,
bad experience and you may want to write and talk
to the front of the you know, the owner. Talk
to the front of the horses. My dad used to say,
and let them let them know why you won't be
coming back because of this concern, and see how they
handle it. You never know, you never know what they
(21:19):
might do.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
But you think, sorry, should I just drop it?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
H What do you feel best about? Is it going
to eat at you?
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Well, I've been so angry. I haven't been wanting I
want to call him, but I've been so angry. I
don't want to blow Why don't.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
You, Why don't you? Why don't you write a letter?
I like writing. I like writing letters because I can
sit down, I can have a cup of coffee, a
cup of tea whatever, a doughnut, a little it is
a little rite. Write my letter. I can get my
thoughts straight. I can I can say what I want
to say clearly. And then I would find out who
(21:54):
the owner of the dealership or the general manager is
and send it to him spence seven bucks, send it
to him certified mail, right, and then you know he
got it. And if they ignore you, oh, then you've
got a reason to pursue it further. Maybe deceptive fraud practices,
et cetera with the attorney general of your state. Maybe
(22:16):
just a bad review on the website. Hey, I took
these steps. Nobody can ever argue with a rational approach right.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Nobody can ever write I have wanted to when I
was right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I took these steps. This is what happened. You know,
whether it's because I'm a woman with it's because they
don't like people with blue eyes, green eyes, red eyes, whatever,
just because maybe they were having a bad day. Not acceptable,
But whatever it happened, I'm asking I'm asking you to
make it right. I'm asking you to look at it
from my perspective that I come to you because I
trust you, I count on your professionalism, and when I
(22:48):
needed you the most, you let me down. You want
me to write the letter, that great, all right, but
that's you know, that's what. Don't be emotional. You know
you need to talk about, say, you need to talk
about how you trusted them up to this point and
they've lost one soldier, so to speak, all right, and
see how they react. Don't be accusatory. It's it's funny
(23:11):
how businesses react, right. You know, maybe dealer parts are
more money I'd have to look the job up. To me,
that's to me, that's an hour and a half, two
hours worth of labor. What's their labor rate? You know,
go go figure that out. If the dealer's labor rate
is two hundred dollars, so it's four hundred dollars in labor,
is it six hundred dollars in parts? I know parts
(23:33):
have gone up, everything's gone up, and I would think
that's probably not far off the mark. Actually, because I've
seen Chrystler. I've seen I've seen Chrysler rotors. Chrysler break
parts are through the roof, and I don't understand why.
So I'm not trying to make an excuse for them. Rochelle, Okay,
I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised. We bought a
(23:54):
set of rear rear roadors for of course, that was
a full sized Dodge thirty five hundred Diesel duly pick
up something. Blah blah blah blah blah. I think the
rotors were four hundred dollars a piece or some crazy number. Yeah,
but that's a truck. But even so, all right, how
about a parts breakdown? You know, can you explain it?
(24:15):
To me in English, you know, expertise at the counter. Hey, Rochelle,
you know what our labor rate is two hundred dollars.
It's about two hours for us to do this job.
You can do the math. That's four hundred bucks. And
you know, Chrysler parts are super expensive. Now Chrysler does,
at least Chrysler in this part of the country in
the Northeast, they have an ulterior what they call their
(24:36):
economy line. It's not a bad break rotor, it's not
a bad break pad. We use them all the time.
We've had We've had great success with them. We've had
probably zero comebacks, you know. So it's as my parts
guys tell me, Ron, it's a cheaper alternative to Chrysler
because Chrysler's break parts are just out of site for
some reason. And you know, it kind of makes sense.
(24:59):
It's you know, do you do you need owe stuff
on a on a seventeen jeep summit? I don't think
so as well.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And where I went where I took it at the
actual break dealerships or break specialty place, I would think
they would be more expensive, but they were, you know,
half the price right and also warrantyed for two years.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Right right, So Lesson learned write a letter.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeap, all right, d I will do that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You're very welcome. You'd be well. Tom hasn't. Tom has
an interesting comment about oil changes. I know Tom wants
to get in here today.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
Well, I've been listening to all this stuff about oil
changes and the price of oil changes, and you know,
the price of quality and such. This actually doesn't involve
oil changes. It involves changing in oil company. With my house,
I've been with a company for twenty seven years. Called
to get having to go out and clean the furnace,
and they said okay, and and by the way, here's
(26:00):
what your service contract will be this year. So it
went up one hundred bucks. And it used to cover
everything at one hundred percent. Now I get a whopping
twenty percent off all parts in labor. And I went,
wh wha, wha, wha Wait a minute, you increase the
price of the package and I'm getting less right, And
they said yeah, And I said, well, I'm going to
shop around. Well I found a mom and pop place
(26:21):
across town, and their service contract is just a little
bit more on all what these guys wanted. But it
covers everything one hundred percent, and the woman apologized. She said,
last year it was this. I said, lady, I'm a
small business guy, parts, parts, labor. Everything is up in price.
As I get it, I said, it's not about the
(26:42):
money I want. I want the peace of mind that
I'm not going to get hit with a big bill
if this thing dies.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And as the moral to the story, you're looking for quality.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Looking, I'm looking for quality. I don't care about it. Well,
I care about the price, but I mean, you know,
we're arguing one hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, We're not
arguing ten thousand dollars. Right, It's like, come on, just stop.
So I changed companies and the other company was like, well,
this is this is what we're doing. I said, well,
that's nice. It's not for me.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Have a nice day. They didn't.
Speaker 7 (27:10):
Didn't even try to keep.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Me well and see see, and that's you know, that's
that's the sad part that they don't try to keep you.
So let me ask you this, when the price of
bagels gets to be thirty dollars a dozen, you're still
buying them.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
No, I'm gonna come over to your place when you
buy them.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
By the way, I think we owe Dodge and apology.
I think I misread his letter, so yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
I think he did.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
He was being funny, but you know what he says,
it's your fault. So I'm gonna blame you.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Of course, well shill you find out what we're paying
for that band.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So we're gonna so we're gonna apologize to Dodge, but
we're gonna blame Tom Ray. Let's go to break. I'm
running Andy in the car doctor eight five five five
six oh nine nine zero zero. I'll be back right
after this. You know, you wonder if kids win drag
racing today in like a Prius or an EV or
something with crash avoidance, would dead Man's curve really apply
(28:01):
because you got close to the edge, would it just
sort of bounce you back so you couldn't go over
the guardrail? It wouldn't. Think of what a dramatic movie
cultural type icon that would be fifty years from now
be boring. I want to talk to you about computer flashing.
I don't know where I get these ideas from. I
want to talk to you about computer flashing. Flashing once again.
We had a twenty thirteen buick in the shop this
(28:23):
week and the customer complaint was harsh engagement into drive,
and it was it was true. It came to us
from another shop. The shop had done a couple of
trans services trying to alleviate it. They found a bulletin
that talked about doing flashing. Do a flash update for software.
You know, this is a twelve year old, sixty thousand
(28:44):
mile vehicle. And the customer woke up one day and
one day it worked, and the next day put it
in gear and it banged so hard it would rattle
your fillings. It was just like a you know, hard hit.
I had my doubts. I won't I won't you know,
light to you about it. I had my doubt, said, gee,
how would a software update on something that was good
one day bad the next fix the problem? But you
(29:07):
know what, I think you have to try. I think
computer flashing software updates to a modern vehicle, anything made
in the last twenty years has gotten to the point
that a software update is an important piece of the
diagnostic solution. It really is it. It's just part of
the process. You've got to do it. So we dialed
up our Opus. Of course, we've got an Opus IVF
(29:29):
scan tool set up, and we dialed up and logged
in with them, and they dialed back into the shop
and it's great. I'll tell you, I don't know why
anybody tries doing flashing on their own. If you have
an Opus, you're you're you know, you've got your problem
solved because it's just being done for you. The hardware
is up to date, the software is correct. And we
did the update and it didn't work. And I was
(29:51):
ready to hand the car back to the other shop
and say, you know, we tried, like we agreed, and
it's you know, X number of dollars and it's time
for a trans and then the tech at Opus said,
by the way, there's an internal memo that I'm reading.
Hang on a second, and I waited. There's an internal
memo that says, if you're doing this bulletin and this
software update and it doesn't work, try this bulletin and
(30:15):
this software update. And it's a note from General Motors.
It talks about and it's not a public released memo,
is the way it was explained to me. So if
this doesn't work, try this, so do this update. It's
sort of like, you know, a Windows update. Let's do
this Windows update. If your computer doesn't work right, Well,
try this computer update. The second update fixed the car.
(30:35):
It it it fixed this transmission that you put it
in drive. It was just woof like like factory brand new.
And the shop that we were doing the workforce said,
what did they do to it?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And that's the beauty or that's the horror, depending on
your perspective of software updates. You don't know what they did.
You don't know what the engineer was thinking. You don't
know what they modified, you don't know what they changed.
All you know is you tried and it's fixed. And
that's the world of order repair. That's what order repair
has come to. And I think it's forward thinkers like
(31:10):
the folks over at Opus that are marching us down
this path, that are keeping us current, that are allowing
us to repair all these vehicles because without software updates,
and more importantly, without having the ability to access the
hardware and the software at some sort of economical cost.
You know, you've got to look at that. But I
just wanted to tell you it's a tale of two
(31:31):
software updates. The first one didn't work, the second one
did thanks to Opus. I'm running ady in the car. Doctor,
I'll be back right after this, and we come to
the end of another exclusive hour of the Car Doctor,
and it's been a pleasure to be here with you.
Next week we're going to get to talk to Mett
(31:51):
di Lorenzo. Matt wrote a great book, Mercedes AMG, which
is Mercedes hot rods, right and Mercedes cars and things
like that. And at first you go, oh, come on,
a Mercedes can't be fast. And then you start to
read the book and you listen to Matt and you go, wow,
you know it's it really is a hot rod. And
(32:11):
we're actually going to get an explanation. I'm not even
going to attempt to pronounce it here, but you know, Matt,
in my preliminary interview with him, he did explain to
me what AMG stands for. It's very German and it's
very hard to pronounce. But because I've always looked at
it and said American, No, it's got nothing to do
with it. It's related to the town in Germany where
(32:33):
the whole corporation started some forty or fifty years ago.
But we're going to go through the history of Mercedes.
They're racing prowess, we're going to talk about flying pigs.
That was one of the cars that wasn't supposed to
be as fast as it was and do what it
was supposed to do. But that's next week, and maybe
we'll give this book away. I've got a copy of
it in front of me. It's got my fingerprints all
(32:54):
over it. But it's got some great color pictures and
the complete explanation of what it's all about. So we
got something out of this week. And I guess the
point of all of this this week is, you know,
we've been talking a lot about maintenance. We've been talking
a lot about different kinds of service. Is know what
you're getting, you know, know what you're paying for, Know
what you're getting, and you know understand it's still a machine.
(33:16):
No matter how many computers they hang on it, it
still requires annual maintenance. It still requires some scheduled service.
And you've got to learn to break down the estimates
and don't be afraid to ask, Hey, it's like the
one Lady Rochelle with the jeep nine hundred and seventy
dollars for breaks. How many hours of that is labor?
How much of that is parts? Are they factory parts?
(33:38):
And we never even addressed that in our conversation with her,
I just made the assumption. But you know, they could
also be using the economy line of breakpart and double dipping,
as I like to say, And I don't like that,
so always ask for an explanation. How do things break down?
Learn to ask about the price of bagels. If you're
here with me for the first hour, you know what
I'm talking about. You know, learn to under understand why
(34:00):
things are going up, and learn to look at things
from a perspective of is it worth it? And you know,
if it's done right, it probably is. If it's not, well,
then that's a whole other, a whole nother part of
the conversation, because there's nothing worse than getting a very
bad and stale bagel. I'm ronning ay in the car
doctor till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
(34:21):
See you
Host
Ron Ananian
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