October 14, 2023 • 35 mins
Ron starts this episode with a story of a funny misfire : discussed disconnecting a battery : answers an email about an 18 Colorado and changing the starter : answers an email on a 16 Suburban with a boatload of issues : and answers an email on an 08 Landcruiser with multiple fault lights.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Ron an Aian, I understand what it is to deal
with broken cars. It hits me at a personal level,
that hits me at a professional level. And I know
why you asked the questions you asked. Is the rest
of the car okay? And that's a great question to ask.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Sell Yahood, shine, great John and Vilvin, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
The.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Car Doctor.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We want to take off the intake manifold and the
valve cover gap a valve cover because they're different. And
take the intake manifold and the valve cover off of
the two thousand and four engines and put it on
the two thousand and two which is in the car stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
That is funny.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
That should work.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, the Car
Doctor since nineteen ninety one. This is where car owners
the world overturn to for their definitive opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up
the phone and call in.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The garage doors are opening, but I am here to
take your call at eight five five five six oh
ninety nine hundred and now he running and we're off
en running Milker by naming the car hockey at your service.
Now you kick off this hour of Automotive Radio and
solve your problem. I want to talk to you about
(01:30):
you know, I thought we'd do some stuff this hour,
talking about tips from the Bays. You guys seem to
like that. I tell you stories about, you know, cars
that we fix in the bays and some of the
strange things we've seen. And we had a good one recently.
It was a twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen Jeep
Cherokee Grand Cherokee with the V six three point six
liter V six that had a misfire fault. It was
(01:50):
setting a misfire on cylinder too. And I went through
normal diagnosis. You know, these are known for misfires and
all sorts of engine and mechanical issues. And I went
through normal you know diagnosis. First, obviously verify the condition,
looked at freeze framed data, looked to see when did
it occur. But it was a funny misfire. It really
(02:11):
only occurred at idle and at lower than normal engine speeds,
you know, anything high on the power band. After about
twelve hundred rpm, it seemed to go away. And you know,
yet and cruising down the road at thirty thirty thirty
five miles an hour. You would see nothing, no misfire,
no misfires. On a scan tool. Everything looked normal. And
then yet you get down to idle and as the
(02:34):
slower you went, it would it was like it was
speede sensitive. You would see it start to misfire again.
So you know, obviously I went through the usual due diligence,
looking at ignition, considering ignition, moving things around. I didn't
want to start doing injectors because it always stayed with
cylinder two. And you know, I could have surely gone
(02:56):
the injector route, but something told me no, because it
was odd, and injector goes bad, it's bad, and injector
doesn't have a problem where it's going to be a
a change. Only you know at idol it's going to
be different than it is under load.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
And I.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Scoped the injector and I looked at it's on off rate,
and I you know, I looked at and watched the
pintle move electrically, and everything seems smooth and easy. So
I started thinking about, you know, what could this be mechanically,
because you know, I had narrowed it down to where, okay,
this is something mechanical now this particular engine, and it's
been there for more than a few years. Chrysler has
(03:35):
gone to their VVL system variable valve lift, and it
includes four solenoids on this engine. Number two cylinder had it,
and they're they're turning on and off different cylinders at
different times for fuel economy and emissions and all the
other things that they tell us the reasons that they're
doing this. And I started thinking, could this be an issue?
(03:55):
So as I went through it, and you know, watched
different things have and in some of the things I
look at, all right, I look at I look at
a lot of different things I look at, you know,
throttle angle, all right? Is it? Is it calling for
more throttle than I normally would expect to see? You know,
where are fuel trims?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
All right?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You guys hear me talk about fuel trims. Fuel trims
are a great barometer for you know, what's ailing an engine.
And you know, listen, just tell me what's tell me
what's good. I'll tell you what's bad. And that's that's
really what I'm looking for. You know, I checked oil
level because oil level is critical on a modern day engine.
You know, it's especially on a variable lift engine. Something
(04:33):
that's got you know, oil solenoids and controls. Oil level
was good, Oil pressure was good, although there was a
variation on oil pressure that caught my eye and I'll
tell you about more about that in a minute. But
I went through all the obvious things and and really
found nothing. Everything seemed to make sense. I did ve
volumetric efficiency test, which is measuring, you know, pulling air
(04:53):
into the engine as the engine mechanically capable, and it
passed VE. Yet it always ran worse at idle. And
you know, I like VeVe as a measurement of how
much can an engine breathe can it suck in enough air?
You know, is it matching the Cubican's displacement or the
(05:14):
leader displacement of the engine to the amount of airflow
coming in? And you know, you can learn a lot
by looking at ve volumetric efficiency. And we don't talk
about it enough here, but it's something that's in the arsenal.
But I came back to oil pressure because I noticed
it sounds funny now, but in looking at oil pressure,
I noticed oil pressure at idle was right on the
(05:36):
fuzzy edge of minimum and the needle would fluctuate it.
It had some bounce to it, and that caught my eye,
like why was that? What was that? You know, you
start looking at everything. It was almost funny how the
needle was moving, almost like it was a bad gauge.
And I said, well, let's assume it's not. You know,
I looked at the sending unit and you know, there
(05:58):
was no leaks and everything seemed okay there. And I
could have gone through, pulled the mechanical you know, pull
this sending unit and put a mechanical gauge in. But
I had no lifter noise. I had and these engines
are you know, they're kind of notorious for that. They
do have a lot of lifter issues and cam issues
we've seen over time. But I came back to that
oil pressure. That oil pressure just continued to bother me.
(06:21):
On a hunch, I pulled the valve cover for you know,
cylinder number two for that bank, and I looked it
over and over and over, and I didn't I didn't
see anything. Everything looked right, you know, rockers looked correct.
There seemed to be you know, engine was clean inside.
I didn't see anything ot and it wasn't a super
high mileage vehicle. This was a I think it was
(06:41):
like forty eight thousand miles. It wasn't a lot of
mileage on this vehicle. And then I noticed, you know,
up front, if you could see it, there are two
cam sprockets in take in take and exhaust, and you
know the timing chain is that there is a dual
overhead cam timing chain motor and in between the two
sprockets there are three bolts. Well, I actually had two bolts,
(07:05):
because I had two bolts coming out of the head
horizontally that you were there. And then there was an
open hole that was threaded in it. It almost looked
like it was supposed to be there. But then what
caught my eye was if I looked down and to
the left, there was a bolt laying there. The parts
aren't supposed to fall off as you go right. Gee,
(07:29):
what the heck is this? And then I realized I
was looking at the open oil galley and evidently this
is getting to be a common thing. I started doing
some research and a lot of mechanics are talking about this,
that they're seeing this particular bolt, especially cylinder number two
because cylinder number two has a variable valve lift solenoid
(07:52):
on it, and this bolt fell out of the hole.
It loosened up and fell out of the hole and
it lost oil pressure. It couldn't because that's how they're
doing it. They're using the solenoid to flow oil to
deactivate the cylinder through this super fancy Kakamami rocker arms
design set up that they've got. And it just wasn't working,
and it wasn't working properly, and you know, at idle
(08:14):
it would create a miss but all idle it had
enough to make it go away. So I, you know,
put some seal a on the bolt threads, popped it
back in, made sure it was tight towards with the
spec and put it all back together and it was fixed.
And I mentioned this to you because I think it's, well, yeah,
it's probably the first time, you know what, I've used
(08:37):
oil pressure to diagnose a problem. And it made me
think about, you know, how technology and diagnostics have changed.
It's evolved right over the years. We're going to start
using everything because everything becomes everything in the sense that
everything is involved in an engine, and it changes the
systems and the components, and you know, the different ways
that we're going to attack and solve the diagnostic dilemma
(08:58):
of the car today in the car in the future.
You know, I would say that this has become such
a problem. I sort of think we're going to see Chrysler, Jeep,
whoever it is, you know, whoever the company will want
to believe, whoever they are at this point, they're going
to you know, probably put out a bolt in for it.
They haven't as of yet. But like I said, I
saw oil pressure you know, dropping to you know, twenty
(09:22):
maybe nineteen eighteen, nineteen twenty p side idol and you know,
it got worse in gear. The lower the RPN went,
the worse it went. And you know, I noticed after
I put the bolt in that I never saw oil
pressure go below thirty two pounds. So who to funk it? Right?
Oil pressure can help you diagnose a diagnosed a vehicle
(09:44):
engine problem misfire that you know, it's it's it's there, right,
It's just different technology. So if you have one of
these and you know you're you're up against it, if
you're a mechanic and you're trying to diagnose a misfire,
start thinking about the different ways that you know the
vehicle can operate it's not all just straight started up.
It's always in six cylinder mode. It's always kind of
(10:06):
chugging along because there are there are differences. You know,
there are things that will make it change in its approach,
and you know, it's just it's just different. Customers a
very happy because you know, he had been to a
couple of other repair shops and they were starting to
talk about and I kind of knew he'd been to
other repair shops because you could see, you know, this
this was a new spark plug and this was a
(10:28):
new coil, and you know the parts changes were hard
at it, trying to sell things and you know, not
diagnose anything. And you know, he was happy because he
was down to the point where he was. He confided
in me afterwards. They never tell you this upfront going in,
but he confided in me afterwards. How you know he
had been hearing from a couple of the other repair
shops that this was a mechanical condition in the engine
(10:50):
and it must need an engine because all these engines
are junk. You know, I'm not a fan of this
particular motor. I've seen it do some strange things, haven't
seen it do this shit, though, And I guess the
variable valve motors are just now getting to the age
where they're becoming more predominant and after market shops versus
the dealer, and we're going to start to see more
and more of this, you know. But yeah, he was
(11:12):
very happy. We put that bolt back in, snugged it
up and all as well. So technology marches on right
as the car changes, so do we as we change
our approach to fixing it. So there's your story. Start
off this hour. More to come. I'm running Enning of
the Car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Don't go away, good time.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Ride it on the wall so you don't forget to
call for car advice. Done right? Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Now back to row.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Welcome back, run Nanting the Car Doctor. Let's do a
quick piece of email. I'm trying to make this a
diagnostic tip, and you know some of the things I
found ore. Let's do an email. Hey, Ron, I've got
a twenty three Chevy Silverado that every once in a
while we'll go into a no crank, no start condition.
I push the button, nothing happens, and I'm not quite
sure what to do. I've taken it back to the
dealership several times, and they've been unable to produce it
(12:12):
because it happens so intermittently. And I want to know
what your thoughts are. I figured you might have a
tip up your sleeve. Fred in Wyoming. Yeah, Fred, no
place to get stuck Wyoming, Right, a lot of space
out there in between, you know, Fred, I've seen this
or I've heard of this. I haven't seen it, but
I have heard of this before. As a matter of fact,
one of the mechanics forums that I belong to where
I'm always reading, there was conversation that someone there is
(12:36):
having a similar problem twenty three Chevy Silverado with a
push button start, where every four or five months they
would go out on a road call and the vehicle
would be in this no crank, no start condition, and
the repair for it became to disconnect both battery cables,
which obviously is something we don't want to do, and
(12:57):
you know, tie them together, you know, to short them
together and let them bleed down and then it starts
over and then the truck starts well. And listen, I
tell you guys this because you know, obviously this is
not something you want to do. You don't want to
start getting in the habit of to fix a vehicle
disconnect the battery, especially on a modern day vehicle because
(13:17):
of all the profile, all the information, all the adaptives,
everything that would have to be reset. And it's just
not it's great to get you out of trouble, right,
we want you to get home, we want you to
be safe, get off the road. But it's not something
we want you to do. Hey, let me fix the car,
you know, disconnect the cables. Okay, we're good. No, that's
not how we want to do this professionally. And they
(13:38):
were talking about it in the forum. How this is.
They've been doing this every four or five months. I
went and I started doing some research on this, and
you know, I had heard of this briefly. I didn't
really do my homework prior. But GM has a bulletin
out there. Fred twenty three, na Desho twenty four, No crank,
no start. What happens is all right, and there's a
software update that your vehicle is going to get. Here
(13:59):
we are software right, and here's a vehicle. Fred tells me,
this vehicle's got eighty two hundred miles on it. Here's
a vehicle that eighty two hundred miles. It's a twenty three,
it's current model year, and already the software has an issue.
But in particular, this one has a problem, likely with
the trans control module. The transmission control module, as weird
as this sounds, is causing an anomaly. Where because it's
(14:24):
in the pipeline, it's on the network, I should say, right,
because a car is just a big collection of computers
and networks and tied together. That if there's thirty modules,
all right, thirty computers on this vehicle, and this trans
control module is number eight, but it's before the body
(14:44):
control module, which is number nine in the lineup of modules. Right, Well,
the trans control module falls off the communications bus. It
all of a sudden, the vehicle can't talk to it
for whatever reason, And all of a sudden, now things
after that trans control module may or may not be
able to be communicated with. Well, if you can't get
(15:04):
to the BCM, it can't tell it the crank it
nothing happens. So the fix thread is tell your dealer
to go back and look for this bullet. And it's
fairly new. It's only out within the last two months,
I believe, and I think they've actually got an update
for it already and they're going to find that by
doing a software update to the trans control module that
(15:25):
will solve the vehicles problem. That will, you know, make
it go away. No parts are required, it's strictly a
software update and you know it should you should be
good to go. You know, the need for research on
vehicles just continues to grow. It just amazes me. You know,
every week, it's more and more and more. When I
(15:48):
go through diagnostic, initial process, initial check in, initial research,
it's the numbers up. I think the number now is
somewhere between thirty to forty five minutes of you know,
beyond the road test, just just reading and the research
and the different places that you have to look because
that's what cars have become. They continue to grow in technology,
(16:11):
and as the technology grows, so does the need for research.
And it's just something you've got to accept. You know,
you're going to be paying mechanics technicians whatever you want
to call us, to be standing in front of a
computer to do research. We can't fix the car without it.
Someone said to me the other day, again, God, I
hate this. I wish this would just go away. But
it doesn't want to die, you know, is I thought
you just plugged in a tool and it said this
(16:32):
was wrong. No plugging in a tool. It just gathers information.
You know. It's no different than when you go to
the doctor and he you know, he listens to your
heart rate, they look at your blood pressure. They'll you know,
put you on their little scope or meter or whatever
you want to call it that you see beeping along
in the er or in the doctor's office, and they'll
tell you, well, your your blood pressure's lower, your heart
(16:52):
rate's high, or something in between. It doesn't mean you
have a bad heart or bad blood It's just an indicator.
And you know that's all scan tool does. It just
gives you information of what different sensors are reporting, and
it's just indicators of what could be and things to
look at and things to consider. So you know, to
get a vehicle. If I was researching this, Fred, if
(17:15):
you're out there listening for everybody else, If I was
researching this in the shop, yeah, I've got to set
routine steps one through ten and looking for bulletins and
updates is all part of it. And you know that
takes time and obviously costs money. And that's why research
has value to it, and that's why the guy that
doesn't research, in my opinion, is really stealing from people.
(17:37):
They're just well, I think it's this. I think it's
that we'll try this, we'll try that. You know, everybody
guesses at some point, but I'd like to hope that
they're going to learn their lesson and you know, do
their diagnosis prior to it. So just just be mindful.
But yeah, Fred, that should and by the way, Fred,
that should be under warranty twenty three with you know,
eight thousand miles on it, whatever you got there, that
(18:00):
should very well be under warranty. And you know, it
would probably and I think this is where the future
of the industry is going. It would probably be wise
going forward. On a modern day vehicle, you know, you're
going for an oil change, ask them, hey, is there
any updated software, any bulletins that you're aware of for
just softwares for no starts or just you know, calibration conditions.
I think vehicles are going to be have to be
(18:21):
software updated on a regular basis. I'm running naming the
card doctor be back right after this number.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Ron's into his own the auto zoned studio, and he
held me back right after this.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Welcome back to the auto's own studio. Here's Ron. Hey, hey,
we're back running naming the car doctor here at by
the way eight five five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. Let me point out that phone number eight
five five five six zero nine nine zero zero is
twenty four to seven. And we're trying to do a
thing where we've gotten a few calls where if you
need something midweek Wednesday nights, the night that you know,
(19:08):
call leave a message, say hey, Ron, I'd like to
talk to you Wednesday night. We'll put you in the
Wednesday night taping, but not a show set up, if
you know what I'm saying. And this way you get
talk to me in midweek you have a car problem,
and that way I get to put it up on
air and help everybody with the with the problem. Because
you know, just trying to spread the information around. I
want to do an email real quick from Gary Wright,
say hey, Ron, heard you're talking about how difficult a
(19:29):
twenty eighteen Colorado starter changes. I had my twenty eighteen
four x four Colorado in for sixty five thousand mile
five year oil change and check up. Got them to
drain and flush the cooling system with I like to
which I like to do around five years. Yeah, so
I get that mention that with my all four point
three s ten's I always replaced thermis status a preventative
ever since my nineteen seventy four Nova had a stuck
(19:51):
thermostat at ninety thousand miles. Lol. They left and said,
I don't think you want us to do that. It's
an eight to nine hundred dollars job. Apparently Shevy now
puts thermistat inside the eennginell it' it's always kind of
been inside the engine, Gary, but they actually put it
in or it's sort of in a difficult spot up
front there in the intake. Who would do that? And
truck had the trans shutter around month nine, like the
eight speed transits of that era. Wonder what the long
(20:14):
term implications are? So last question, let's comment first, Gary,
go and take a look at GM bulletins sixteen NA
dash OH one to nine, and it talks about transmission
adaptive functions and problems with shifts, slips or flares. Came
out May of this year, and it talks with some
specific things to do and ways to diagnose it as possibility,
(20:38):
and it seems like some of the dealers are missing
this one because people are going in and they're not
using the right keywords I guess in the search, so
it doesn't necessarily come up. But mention sixteen NAO one
nine to them if they're having a problem, and perhaps
that will help them to locate it, because I believe
it applies to everything going all the way back through
twenty fifteen. Actually now twenty eight did have some very
(21:01):
specific problems with torqu converters. It seems like GM had
some torque converter issues, and I'm suspecting that the shutter
you're getting is actually on converter. Apply, so take note
of when it happens. Is it you're in that fifth
or sixth gear and the converter comes on, You see
the RPM drop because it goes to direct lock, and
(21:23):
that's where the shutter happens. If so, and you don't
mention you mentioned now, you don't say did you change
the trans fluid? Sixty five thousand miles five years old?
A problem trans or a transit's developing a problem. I
changed the fluid. I would change the fluid. I would
look for metal content. I would look for debris in
the pan. I would be doing my due diligence, and
then when I put it back together, I would consider
(21:45):
putting some sort of anti shutter agent in it. All right,
get yourself down to your local AutoZone. They'll have it
on the shelf. Just tell them what you're trying to do.
There's a couple of different brands out there. The majority
of them work. I haven't found one that doesn't. There's
one in a red tube with white letters, a little
small thing I can't remember. I think it's anti shutter,
I believe is what it's called. We have it sitting
(22:05):
on the shelf at the shop and we'll use it
from time to time. And the idea is it's putting
more of a bite into the fluid and it helps
with if the converter itself is glazed over, because what's
happening from the sounds of it, it could be that
the torque converter when it applies. Think of a centrifical
clutch in a minibike. And I say this all the
time that the lining the it's not really clutch material,
(22:30):
but I'll use that term. The clutch material is glazed
and it doesn't apply smoothly, and the shutter agent, the
anti shutter agent, will help give it a little bit
of bite because short of that, if it continues, at
the very least, you're headed for a converter. The long
term implications could be that you're putting debris through the
trams and you're gonna end up having to rebuild the
(22:53):
trans prematurely, because how does an automatic transmission work. It's
all hydraulics, it's all fluid, it's all circuits, it's passing
fluid through a orifice smaller than the eye of a needle.
And now you're driving a trends it's breaking apart material
that over time will put sediment in the crud as
(23:14):
we call it, throughout and it's going to make a problem.
So and by the way, the starter, Yeah, that starter
looks like a whole lot of fun to do. We
definitely don't want to do that job. So not something
that's high on the list of I can't wait till
that breaks and we have to do that. I want
to tell you about this twenty sixteen suburban and what's
really on my mind is that you are keeping your
(23:36):
vehicles longer. And we've noticed it and we're seeing, you know,
the average age of the vehicle fleet now is going
on twelve and a half years and two hundred thousand
miles doesn't scare you on vehicles, And I think part
of it is because you're looking at the price of
new vehicles. You know, we had to customer bring us
a twenty sixteen suburban with two hundred and one thousand
(23:58):
miles on it had a laundry list of things going
on with it, all sorts of problems, missfire, cold, a
low level abs, brake, shutter, you know, some body damage
to the back hatch. But the bones of the car
was good, the bones of the truck was good. It
was it was a good vehicle. It you know, it
(24:19):
did well. You know, it wasn't that beat up. It
didn't look like it had two hundred thousand miles on
It looked like it had eighty to one hundred thousand
miles on it interior wise, and except for the debt
in the back hatch. And it takes time, you know,
and I think, if you're going to do that to
your mechanic, you've got to be patient. Brian was very patient.
He let us, you know, go through it step by step,
(24:41):
and it took about three weeks off again on again
because of all the other work we have rolling through
the shop. Because that's a that's a pick at it
kind of a job. It's hard to get out a
job like that and stay with it the whole time,
simply because a lot of questions developed. You know, I
chased the cold start misfire first. It was set a
P zero fifty D and that was my biggest concern obviously,
(25:05):
because does it need injectors? Does it have you know,
an engine problem? You know, do I have valve damage?
Do I have an issue with AFM act of fuel management?
With a rock or a roller or something? Just you know,
always chase the hard thing first. It's easy to fix
the easy stuff. No, no, no kidding, right, So it
turned out that the previous group of mechanics, and you know,
(25:29):
I look at this stuff and I understand why my
industry has the ripet has. So I took out six
Denso spark plugs and two AC delcos at two hundred
and one thousand miles, meaning that at the one hundred
thousand miles spark plug change and we only changed six
of them, which is not uncommon. Right, The two hardest
plugs were left in the engine just to because we
(25:50):
couldn't get to those kind of you know, I just
scratched my head, I really do. The misfire was on seven. Interestingly,
when I pulled it upon art, the plug wire on
number seven just literally fell apart in my hands. And
once I had it open, once I had all the
plugs out, I did something I don't normally do, but
because I was looking for a problem, I did it.
(26:13):
I took a borscope. You know, a borscope is what
your plumber or your carpenter to look inside the walls
or the pipes might do. I did a camera inspection
inside the engine, and I could see a lot of
heavy carbon deposits all right two hundred and one thousand miles.
The inside of the engine looked like it oil was
clean inside. Looking inside the valve cover with it, you know,
was clean there. They had done their oil changes using
(26:35):
good oil and stuff, but you could see that, you know,
it had some carbon deposits. I don't think they knew
what fuel system cleaning was all about, or any type
of tank additive during the process to you know, help
maintain and keep the engine clean of carbon. So you know,
where do you start. Put a fresh set of plugs
(26:56):
in it, fresh set of wires, did two carbon cleaning,
ran it through twice, put a tank additive in it,
and lo and behold the misfire was gone cold. It
was fixed. And I was already to do injectors. I
was thinking we had an injector problem. GM does have
injector problems on this particular vehicle, if you have one.
They actually bumped the warranty ten years, one hundred and
fifty thousand miles. They've extended the warranty on all these
(27:19):
five threes in Silverados and suburbans and the like, the
tahoes and such because of such injector problems. But you know,
my point is that you know, if you're going to
commit to an older vehicle, you've really got to commit
to it. Okay, And Brian wasn't surprised he put thirty
five hundred dollars into a two hundred thousand mile vehicle.
(27:40):
But the alternative was if you went out and bought
something new, it's ninety to one hundred grand. And you
say that a couple of times, and you start to
compare it in your head, and you go, you know,
it's not so bad, is it. And it's it's it's
a game of patience and you can't be surprised. But
you've also got a you know, I liked what Brian did.
Run check it out, tell me front to back. What
(28:02):
do you think it needs. He paid us for our time,
and we were able to sit down and come to
an intelligent conclusion and a rational approach. And there's things
that we're not going to fix. We're not going to
fix the park sensors. Eventually, we'll fix the right rear
axle seal that's just starting to seep. You know, I've
still got to deal with the abs pulse and shake
that's going on at low levels below eight miles an hour.
(28:25):
But frankly, it happened so intermittently and so randomly. I said, listen,
this is the best. This thing is running a long time.
You know, why don't you just take it, drive it,
and you know, let's see where it goes. Oh and
the other thing that was crazy was it needed a thermostat.
Right Gary before I was just talking about a thermistad
on his Colorado. The engine was running one hundred and
seventy eight degrees. Now I know where all the carbon
(28:47):
deposits came from. And for whatever reason, it never set
a fault code. It never set a tempt related fault,
which it should have. So it might have been environment
that it was operated. And I understand it was up
on a cherry farm I think Brian said somewhere up
in Michigan, his family's cherry farm. But bottom line, you
can fix an older vehicle, you can get more mileage
(29:07):
out of it. I think it's just about approach. And
I think it's as much, you know, the responsibility of
you the vehicle owner, and you the technician that's working
on it, to have a real good conversation and good
communication to get the job done. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero running any of the car, Doctor,
I'll be back right up to this, don't go away,
(29:36):
welcome back. Well, let's do a put a piece of email.
Hey doctor, I have a two thousand eight Toyota land
Cruiser or running any of the car doctor, by the way,
bought it new. I get so excited. I want to
get into the emails. I bought a I have a
two thousand a Toyota Take two. Hi, I'm back, I
have a two thousand eight Toyota land Cruiser bought it new.
It has two hundred and twenty three thousand miles on
(29:56):
it Texas Highway miles, mostly full time four wheel drive. Recently,
I got in and started up one morning in the
VSC check engine light and low four wheel drive lights
were on. The car was in four wheel drive low.
Never touched the thing. Went to the Toyota dealer and
they were able to take it out of four wheel low,
but they said the sensor in the transfer case is malfunctioning.
Best if I just replaced the entire transfer case assembly
(30:18):
is they don't go into repair sensors anymore at the dealership.
I am looking at twenty five hundred dollars for the
part and thirteen hundred dollars for labor. I would like
to find a transmission shop here in Houston that can
have a look and possibly make the repair for a
lot less. The car otherwise is in great condition. Is
it worth trying to find the shop to repair the
sensor in the transfer case or best to replace the
whole assembly? Anyway to locate a used part. Let me
(30:39):
know your thoughts on how to keep the psychiconic car
on the road. For another hundred thousand miles. Thanks Jim.
You know, Jim, I'm going to start the last part first.
Any way to lookate to use part. So any used
part you get is going to be from a two
thousand and eight Toyota land Cruiser, so it's fifteen years old.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The problem is it'll have high mileage on it and
you could end up right back in this position. You know,
in my mind, you know, what are we gonna save here?
If the parts? You know, I think they're talking about
the four wheel drive actuator assembly which bolts to the
outside of the case. You know, if we're talking and
I'm gonna take a guest here, it's been a while,
five hundred bucks, you know, a couple hours of labor
(31:17):
there is it an eight hundred thousand dollars repair versus
a four thousand dollar repair. But then what do you get?
You still have a transfer case that has two hundred
and twenty five thousand miles on it and if you
want to go another one hundred thousand, and I guess
a lot of it depends on what sort of shape
is the transfer case, what does the fluid look like?
You know, has the fluid ever been serviced. You know,
you say Texas Highway miles mostly, Yeah, I get it.
(31:41):
You know, the chains do stretch, they do, you know,
slap the side of the case. It's it's got two
hundred and twenty five thousand miles on it. We're not
talking one hundred thousand. We're not talking one hundred and
fifty thousand. We're talking, you know, almost a quarter million miles.
So in the back of my mind, if you want
to keep this going longer, you know, I think think
you have. First of all, I think you have to
(32:01):
play what if if the transmission were to fail, would
you put a trans in it? Not common? They do fail,
but not common. Would you put a trans in it?
The engines are pretty bulletproof for a half a million miles.
But if you're having problems with the transfer case now
and someone can go through it, or you're telling me
that Toyota can get you a transfer case for twenty
(32:21):
five hundred dollars and thirteen hundred dollars labor to put
it in, hey listen. At least you know what you
got right, and then you're done. And I like that
because then you don't have to revisit it again. I
think the used part is a problem because I think
it's going to have the agent mileage against it. I
think if you can find a shop in the Houston area,
I don't know of any or I would be glad
to send you, you know, it's worth having them take
(32:44):
a look at it. I think a lot of shops
are getting skitterish about sensor repair on older vehicles with
high mileage because and understand their position two weeks from now,
when it develops a problem, it's ever since and since
you touched it, it's now yours, and you know, you
could sign all the papers in the world you want.
But I've been down this road myself a few times
(33:05):
and it's just not pleasant. So I think, you know,
you can try doing the shop thing. You can try
finding a shop, But I think for longevity, because when
you get to another hundred thousand miles out of this
and then all of a sudden, hey, I'll drive it
another hundred thousand, at least the transfer case is done
when you were able to get the part. And that's
the other thing to consider, because parts will disappear for
(33:26):
that over time, because it's fifteen years old eight five, five,
five six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running aiding
the car doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Don't go away.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Now we're back and we're here to ramp things up.
Running the car Doctor at your surface. Quick piece of
email from Kathy doesn't say where she's from. On a
previous show, you shared your horror stories of replacing starters
on a Camaro L two and a collar out of
the six pickup. You really scared me because I have
these same vehicles parked in my garage. Should I sell both?
Get an EV No way, she says, big exclamation point.
(34:08):
I love the role of an internal combustion engine. Sent
from my iPad Kathy. Thanks Kathy, I appreciate that. I
think everybody appreciates the roar of an internal combustion engine.
And now I just think that you can't sell a
vehicle because it's going to have a difficult repair on it,
because they all have difficult repairs. And I think we
just have to get used to it and accept it.
And I think we have to ask more of our
mechanics and expect them to be trained and able to
(34:29):
deal with it. And I think you as consumers have
to be willing to pay the bill. It's not going
to get any cheaper to fix cars. It's as their
technology and they get more complicated, it's only going to
go up. And by the way, speaking of training, I
just want to bring up something we talk about the
NNGK NTK Shop Squad. If you Google search NNGK Shop
Squad you will find a link to their website and
(34:50):
if you've registered as a repair shop do it yourself
for etc. You know, we talk about the up and
coming webinars they've got going on, but they also give
you the ability look back at the webinars. You can
look back and see like the one they just did
recently about misfied diagnostics. Excellent webinar. I looked at it myself.
I really enjoyed it until the next time I'm ronning
Andy and the guard doctor reminding you good mechanics aren't expensive,
(35:13):
they're priceless. See
Ron an Aian, I understand what it is to deal
with broken cars. It hits me at a personal level,
that hits me at a professional level. And I know
why you asked the questions you asked. Is the rest
of the car okay? And that's a great question to ask.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Sell Yahood, shine, great John and Vilvin, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
The.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Car Doctor.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We want to take off the intake manifold and the
valve cover gap a valve cover because they're different. And
take the intake manifold and the valve cover off of
the two thousand and four engines and put it on
the two thousand and two which is in the car stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
That is funny.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
That should work.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, the Car
Doctor since nineteen ninety one. This is where car owners
the world overturn to for their definitive opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up
the phone and call in.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The garage doors are opening, but I am here to
take your call at eight five five five six oh
ninety nine hundred and now he running and we're off
en running Milker by naming the car hockey at your service.
Now you kick off this hour of Automotive Radio and
solve your problem. I want to talk to you about
(01:30):
you know, I thought we'd do some stuff this hour,
talking about tips from the Bays. You guys seem to
like that. I tell you stories about, you know, cars
that we fix in the bays and some of the
strange things we've seen. And we had a good one recently.
It was a twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen Jeep
Cherokee Grand Cherokee with the V six three point six
liter V six that had a misfire fault. It was
(01:50):
setting a misfire on cylinder too. And I went through
normal diagnosis. You know, these are known for misfires and
all sorts of engine and mechanical issues. And I went
through normal you know diagnosis. First, obviously verify the condition,
looked at freeze framed data, looked to see when did
it occur. But it was a funny misfire. It really
(02:11):
only occurred at idle and at lower than normal engine speeds,
you know, anything high on the power band. After about
twelve hundred rpm, it seemed to go away. And you know,
yet and cruising down the road at thirty thirty thirty
five miles an hour. You would see nothing, no misfire,
no misfires. On a scan tool. Everything looked normal. And
then yet you get down to idle and as the
(02:34):
slower you went, it would it was like it was
speede sensitive. You would see it start to misfire again.
So you know, obviously I went through the usual due diligence,
looking at ignition, considering ignition, moving things around. I didn't
want to start doing injectors because it always stayed with
cylinder two. And you know, I could have surely gone
(02:56):
the injector route, but something told me no, because it
was odd, and injector goes bad, it's bad, and injector
doesn't have a problem where it's going to be a
a change. Only you know at idol it's going to
be different than it is under load.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
And I.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Scoped the injector and I looked at it's on off rate,
and I you know, I looked at and watched the
pintle move electrically, and everything seems smooth and easy. So
I started thinking about, you know, what could this be mechanically,
because you know, I had narrowed it down to where, okay,
this is something mechanical now this particular engine, and it's
been there for more than a few years. Chrysler has
(03:35):
gone to their VVL system variable valve lift, and it
includes four solenoids on this engine. Number two cylinder had it,
and they're they're turning on and off different cylinders at
different times for fuel economy and emissions and all the
other things that they tell us the reasons that they're
doing this. And I started thinking, could this be an issue?
(03:55):
So as I went through it, and you know, watched
different things have and in some of the things I
look at, all right, I look at I look at
a lot of different things I look at, you know,
throttle angle, all right? Is it? Is it calling for
more throttle than I normally would expect to see? You know,
where are fuel trims?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
All right?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You guys hear me talk about fuel trims. Fuel trims
are a great barometer for you know, what's ailing an engine.
And you know, listen, just tell me what's tell me
what's good. I'll tell you what's bad. And that's that's
really what I'm looking for. You know, I checked oil
level because oil level is critical on a modern day engine.
You know, it's especially on a variable lift engine. Something
(04:33):
that's got you know, oil solenoids and controls. Oil level
was good, Oil pressure was good, although there was a
variation on oil pressure that caught my eye and I'll
tell you about more about that in a minute. But
I went through all the obvious things and and really
found nothing. Everything seemed to make sense. I did ve
volumetric efficiency test, which is measuring, you know, pulling air
(04:53):
into the engine as the engine mechanically capable, and it
passed VE. Yet it always ran worse at idle. And
you know, I like VeVe as a measurement of how
much can an engine breathe can it suck in enough air?
You know, is it matching the Cubican's displacement or the
(05:14):
leader displacement of the engine to the amount of airflow
coming in? And you know, you can learn a lot
by looking at ve volumetric efficiency. And we don't talk
about it enough here, but it's something that's in the arsenal.
But I came back to oil pressure because I noticed
it sounds funny now, but in looking at oil pressure,
I noticed oil pressure at idle was right on the
(05:36):
fuzzy edge of minimum and the needle would fluctuate it.
It had some bounce to it, and that caught my eye,
like why was that? What was that? You know, you
start looking at everything. It was almost funny how the
needle was moving, almost like it was a bad gauge.
And I said, well, let's assume it's not. You know,
I looked at the sending unit and you know, there
(05:58):
was no leaks and everything seemed okay there. And I
could have gone through, pulled the mechanical you know, pull
this sending unit and put a mechanical gauge in. But
I had no lifter noise. I had and these engines
are you know, they're kind of notorious for that. They
do have a lot of lifter issues and cam issues
we've seen over time. But I came back to that
oil pressure. That oil pressure just continued to bother me.
(06:21):
On a hunch, I pulled the valve cover for you know,
cylinder number two for that bank, and I looked it
over and over and over, and I didn't I didn't
see anything. Everything looked right, you know, rockers looked correct.
There seemed to be you know, engine was clean inside.
I didn't see anything ot and it wasn't a super
high mileage vehicle. This was a I think it was
(06:41):
like forty eight thousand miles. It wasn't a lot of
mileage on this vehicle. And then I noticed, you know,
up front, if you could see it, there are two
cam sprockets in take in take and exhaust, and you
know the timing chain is that there is a dual
overhead cam timing chain motor and in between the two
sprockets there are three bolts. Well, I actually had two bolts,
(07:05):
because I had two bolts coming out of the head
horizontally that you were there. And then there was an
open hole that was threaded in it. It almost looked
like it was supposed to be there. But then what
caught my eye was if I looked down and to
the left, there was a bolt laying there. The parts
aren't supposed to fall off as you go right. Gee,
(07:29):
what the heck is this? And then I realized I
was looking at the open oil galley and evidently this
is getting to be a common thing. I started doing
some research and a lot of mechanics are talking about this,
that they're seeing this particular bolt, especially cylinder number two
because cylinder number two has a variable valve lift solenoid
(07:52):
on it, and this bolt fell out of the hole.
It loosened up and fell out of the hole and
it lost oil pressure. It couldn't because that's how they're
doing it. They're using the solenoid to flow oil to
deactivate the cylinder through this super fancy Kakamami rocker arms
design set up that they've got. And it just wasn't working,
and it wasn't working properly, and you know, at idle
(08:14):
it would create a miss but all idle it had
enough to make it go away. So I, you know,
put some seal a on the bolt threads, popped it
back in, made sure it was tight towards with the
spec and put it all back together and it was fixed.
And I mentioned this to you because I think it's, well, yeah,
it's probably the first time, you know what, I've used
(08:37):
oil pressure to diagnose a problem. And it made me
think about, you know, how technology and diagnostics have changed.
It's evolved right over the years. We're going to start
using everything because everything becomes everything in the sense that
everything is involved in an engine, and it changes the
systems and the components, and you know, the different ways
that we're going to attack and solve the diagnostic dilemma
(08:58):
of the car today in the car in the future.
You know, I would say that this has become such
a problem. I sort of think we're going to see Chrysler, Jeep,
whoever it is, you know, whoever the company will want
to believe, whoever they are at this point, they're going
to you know, probably put out a bolt in for it.
They haven't as of yet. But like I said, I
saw oil pressure you know, dropping to you know, twenty
(09:22):
maybe nineteen eighteen, nineteen twenty p side idol and you know,
it got worse in gear. The lower the RPN went,
the worse it went. And you know, I noticed after
I put the bolt in that I never saw oil
pressure go below thirty two pounds. So who to funk it? Right?
Oil pressure can help you diagnose a diagnosed a vehicle
(09:44):
engine problem misfire that you know, it's it's it's there, right,
It's just different technology. So if you have one of
these and you know you're you're up against it, if
you're a mechanic and you're trying to diagnose a misfire,
start thinking about the different ways that you know the
vehicle can operate it's not all just straight started up.
It's always in six cylinder mode. It's always kind of
(10:06):
chugging along because there are there are differences. You know,
there are things that will make it change in its approach,
and you know, it's just it's just different. Customers a
very happy because you know, he had been to a
couple of other repair shops and they were starting to
talk about and I kind of knew he'd been to
other repair shops because you could see, you know, this
this was a new spark plug and this was a
(10:28):
new coil, and you know the parts changes were hard
at it, trying to sell things and you know, not
diagnose anything. And you know, he was happy because he
was down to the point where he was. He confided
in me afterwards. They never tell you this upfront going in,
but he confided in me afterwards. How you know he
had been hearing from a couple of the other repair
shops that this was a mechanical condition in the engine
(10:50):
and it must need an engine because all these engines
are junk. You know, I'm not a fan of this
particular motor. I've seen it do some strange things, haven't
seen it do this shit, though, And I guess the
variable valve motors are just now getting to the age
where they're becoming more predominant and after market shops versus
the dealer, and we're going to start to see more
and more of this, you know. But yeah, he was
(11:12):
very happy. We put that bolt back in, snugged it
up and all as well. So technology marches on right
as the car changes, so do we as we change
our approach to fixing it. So there's your story. Start
off this hour. More to come. I'm running Enning of
the Car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Don't go away, good time.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Ride it on the wall so you don't forget to
call for car advice. Done right? Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Now back to row.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Welcome back, run Nanting the Car Doctor. Let's do a
quick piece of email. I'm trying to make this a
diagnostic tip, and you know some of the things I
found ore. Let's do an email. Hey, Ron, I've got
a twenty three Chevy Silverado that every once in a
while we'll go into a no crank, no start condition.
I push the button, nothing happens, and I'm not quite
sure what to do. I've taken it back to the
dealership several times, and they've been unable to produce it
(12:12):
because it happens so intermittently. And I want to know
what your thoughts are. I figured you might have a
tip up your sleeve. Fred in Wyoming. Yeah, Fred, no
place to get stuck Wyoming, Right, a lot of space
out there in between, you know, Fred, I've seen this
or I've heard of this. I haven't seen it, but
I have heard of this before. As a matter of fact,
one of the mechanics forums that I belong to where
I'm always reading, there was conversation that someone there is
(12:36):
having a similar problem twenty three Chevy Silverado with a
push button start, where every four or five months they
would go out on a road call and the vehicle
would be in this no crank, no start condition, and
the repair for it became to disconnect both battery cables,
which obviously is something we don't want to do, and
(12:57):
you know, tie them together, you know, to short them
together and let them bleed down and then it starts
over and then the truck starts well. And listen, I
tell you guys this because you know, obviously this is
not something you want to do. You don't want to
start getting in the habit of to fix a vehicle
disconnect the battery, especially on a modern day vehicle because
(13:17):
of all the profile, all the information, all the adaptives,
everything that would have to be reset. And it's just
not it's great to get you out of trouble, right,
we want you to get home, we want you to
be safe, get off the road. But it's not something
we want you to do. Hey, let me fix the car,
you know, disconnect the cables. Okay, we're good. No, that's
not how we want to do this professionally. And they
(13:38):
were talking about it in the forum. How this is.
They've been doing this every four or five months. I
went and I started doing some research on this, and
you know, I had heard of this briefly. I didn't
really do my homework prior. But GM has a bulletin
out there. Fred twenty three, na Desho twenty four, No crank,
no start. What happens is all right, and there's a
software update that your vehicle is going to get. Here
(13:59):
we are software right, and here's a vehicle. Fred tells me,
this vehicle's got eighty two hundred miles on it. Here's
a vehicle that eighty two hundred miles. It's a twenty three,
it's current model year, and already the software has an issue.
But in particular, this one has a problem, likely with
the trans control module. The transmission control module, as weird
as this sounds, is causing an anomaly. Where because it's
(14:24):
in the pipeline, it's on the network, I should say, right,
because a car is just a big collection of computers
and networks and tied together. That if there's thirty modules,
all right, thirty computers on this vehicle, and this trans
control module is number eight, but it's before the body
(14:44):
control module, which is number nine in the lineup of modules. Right, Well,
the trans control module falls off the communications bus. It
all of a sudden, the vehicle can't talk to it
for whatever reason, And all of a sudden, now things
after that trans control module may or may not be
able to be communicated with. Well, if you can't get
(15:04):
to the BCM, it can't tell it the crank it
nothing happens. So the fix thread is tell your dealer
to go back and look for this bullet. And it's
fairly new. It's only out within the last two months,
I believe, and I think they've actually got an update
for it already and they're going to find that by
doing a software update to the trans control module that
(15:25):
will solve the vehicles problem. That will, you know, make
it go away. No parts are required, it's strictly a
software update and you know it should you should be
good to go. You know, the need for research on
vehicles just continues to grow. It just amazes me. You know,
every week, it's more and more and more. When I
(15:48):
go through diagnostic, initial process, initial check in, initial research,
it's the numbers up. I think the number now is
somewhere between thirty to forty five minutes of you know,
beyond the road test, just just reading and the research
and the different places that you have to look because
that's what cars have become. They continue to grow in technology,
(16:11):
and as the technology grows, so does the need for research.
And it's just something you've got to accept. You know,
you're going to be paying mechanics technicians whatever you want
to call us, to be standing in front of a
computer to do research. We can't fix the car without it.
Someone said to me the other day, again, God, I
hate this. I wish this would just go away. But
it doesn't want to die, you know, is I thought
you just plugged in a tool and it said this
(16:32):
was wrong. No plugging in a tool. It just gathers information.
You know. It's no different than when you go to
the doctor and he you know, he listens to your
heart rate, they look at your blood pressure. They'll you know,
put you on their little scope or meter or whatever
you want to call it that you see beeping along
in the er or in the doctor's office, and they'll
tell you, well, your your blood pressure's lower, your heart
(16:52):
rate's high, or something in between. It doesn't mean you
have a bad heart or bad blood It's just an indicator.
And you know that's all scan tool does. It just
gives you information of what different sensors are reporting, and
it's just indicators of what could be and things to
look at and things to consider. So you know, to
get a vehicle. If I was researching this, Fred, if
(17:15):
you're out there listening for everybody else, If I was
researching this in the shop, yeah, I've got to set
routine steps one through ten and looking for bulletins and
updates is all part of it. And you know that
takes time and obviously costs money. And that's why research
has value to it, and that's why the guy that
doesn't research, in my opinion, is really stealing from people.
(17:37):
They're just well, I think it's this. I think it's
that we'll try this, we'll try that. You know, everybody
guesses at some point, but I'd like to hope that
they're going to learn their lesson and you know, do
their diagnosis prior to it. So just just be mindful.
But yeah, Fred, that should and by the way, Fred,
that should be under warranty twenty three with you know,
eight thousand miles on it, whatever you got there, that
(18:00):
should very well be under warranty. And you know, it
would probably and I think this is where the future
of the industry is going. It would probably be wise
going forward. On a modern day vehicle, you know, you're
going for an oil change, ask them, hey, is there
any updated software, any bulletins that you're aware of for
just softwares for no starts or just you know, calibration conditions.
I think vehicles are going to be have to be
(18:21):
software updated on a regular basis. I'm running naming the
card doctor be back right after this number.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Ron's into his own the auto zoned studio, and he
held me back right after this.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Welcome back to the auto's own studio. Here's Ron. Hey, hey,
we're back running naming the car doctor here at by
the way eight five five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. Let me point out that phone number eight
five five five six zero nine nine zero zero is
twenty four to seven. And we're trying to do a
thing where we've gotten a few calls where if you
need something midweek Wednesday nights, the night that you know,
(19:08):
call leave a message, say hey, Ron, I'd like to
talk to you Wednesday night. We'll put you in the
Wednesday night taping, but not a show set up, if
you know what I'm saying. And this way you get
talk to me in midweek you have a car problem,
and that way I get to put it up on
air and help everybody with the with the problem. Because
you know, just trying to spread the information around. I
want to do an email real quick from Gary Wright,
say hey, Ron, heard you're talking about how difficult a
(19:29):
twenty eighteen Colorado starter changes. I had my twenty eighteen
four x four Colorado in for sixty five thousand mile
five year oil change and check up. Got them to
drain and flush the cooling system with I like to
which I like to do around five years. Yeah, so
I get that mention that with my all four point
three s ten's I always replaced thermis status a preventative
ever since my nineteen seventy four Nova had a stuck
(19:51):
thermostat at ninety thousand miles. Lol. They left and said,
I don't think you want us to do that. It's
an eight to nine hundred dollars job. Apparently Shevy now
puts thermistat inside the eennginell it' it's always kind of
been inside the engine, Gary, but they actually put it
in or it's sort of in a difficult spot up
front there in the intake. Who would do that? And
truck had the trans shutter around month nine, like the
eight speed transits of that era. Wonder what the long
(20:14):
term implications are? So last question, let's comment first, Gary,
go and take a look at GM bulletins sixteen NA
dash OH one to nine, and it talks about transmission
adaptive functions and problems with shifts, slips or flares. Came
out May of this year, and it talks with some
specific things to do and ways to diagnose it as possibility,
(20:38):
and it seems like some of the dealers are missing
this one because people are going in and they're not
using the right keywords I guess in the search, so
it doesn't necessarily come up. But mention sixteen NAO one
nine to them if they're having a problem, and perhaps
that will help them to locate it, because I believe
it applies to everything going all the way back through
twenty fifteen. Actually now twenty eight did have some very
(21:01):
specific problems with torqu converters. It seems like GM had
some torque converter issues, and I'm suspecting that the shutter
you're getting is actually on converter. Apply, so take note
of when it happens. Is it you're in that fifth
or sixth gear and the converter comes on, You see
the RPM drop because it goes to direct lock, and
(21:23):
that's where the shutter happens. If so, and you don't
mention you mentioned now, you don't say did you change
the trans fluid? Sixty five thousand miles five years old?
A problem trans or a transit's developing a problem. I
changed the fluid. I would change the fluid. I would
look for metal content. I would look for debris in
the pan. I would be doing my due diligence, and
then when I put it back together, I would consider
(21:45):
putting some sort of anti shutter agent in it. All right,
get yourself down to your local AutoZone. They'll have it
on the shelf. Just tell them what you're trying to do.
There's a couple of different brands out there. The majority
of them work. I haven't found one that doesn't. There's
one in a red tube with white letters, a little
small thing I can't remember. I think it's anti shutter,
I believe is what it's called. We have it sitting
(22:05):
on the shelf at the shop and we'll use it
from time to time. And the idea is it's putting
more of a bite into the fluid and it helps
with if the converter itself is glazed over, because what's
happening from the sounds of it, it could be that
the torque converter when it applies. Think of a centrifical
clutch in a minibike. And I say this all the
time that the lining the it's not really clutch material,
(22:30):
but I'll use that term. The clutch material is glazed
and it doesn't apply smoothly, and the shutter agent, the
anti shutter agent, will help give it a little bit
of bite because short of that, if it continues, at
the very least, you're headed for a converter. The long
term implications could be that you're putting debris through the
trams and you're gonna end up having to rebuild the
(22:53):
trans prematurely, because how does an automatic transmission work. It's
all hydraulics, it's all fluid, it's all circuits, it's passing
fluid through a orifice smaller than the eye of a needle.
And now you're driving a trends it's breaking apart material
that over time will put sediment in the crud as
(23:14):
we call it, throughout and it's going to make a problem.
So and by the way, the starter, Yeah, that starter
looks like a whole lot of fun to do. We
definitely don't want to do that job. So not something
that's high on the list of I can't wait till
that breaks and we have to do that. I want
to tell you about this twenty sixteen suburban and what's
really on my mind is that you are keeping your
(23:36):
vehicles longer. And we've noticed it and we're seeing, you know,
the average age of the vehicle fleet now is going
on twelve and a half years and two hundred thousand
miles doesn't scare you on vehicles, And I think part
of it is because you're looking at the price of
new vehicles. You know, we had to customer bring us
a twenty sixteen suburban with two hundred and one thousand
(23:58):
miles on it had a laundry list of things going
on with it, all sorts of problems, missfire, cold, a
low level abs, brake, shutter, you know, some body damage
to the back hatch. But the bones of the car
was good, the bones of the truck was good. It
was it was a good vehicle. It you know, it
(24:19):
did well. You know, it wasn't that beat up. It
didn't look like it had two hundred thousand miles on
It looked like it had eighty to one hundred thousand
miles on it interior wise, and except for the debt
in the back hatch. And it takes time, you know,
and I think, if you're going to do that to
your mechanic, you've got to be patient. Brian was very patient.
He let us, you know, go through it step by step,
(24:41):
and it took about three weeks off again on again
because of all the other work we have rolling through
the shop. Because that's a that's a pick at it
kind of a job. It's hard to get out a
job like that and stay with it the whole time,
simply because a lot of questions developed. You know, I
chased the cold start misfire first. It was set a
P zero fifty D and that was my biggest concern obviously,
(25:05):
because does it need injectors? Does it have you know,
an engine problem? You know, do I have valve damage?
Do I have an issue with AFM act of fuel management?
With a rock or a roller or something? Just you know,
always chase the hard thing first. It's easy to fix
the easy stuff. No, no, no kidding, right, So it
turned out that the previous group of mechanics, and you know,
(25:29):
I look at this stuff and I understand why my
industry has the ripet has. So I took out six
Denso spark plugs and two AC delcos at two hundred
and one thousand miles, meaning that at the one hundred
thousand miles spark plug change and we only changed six
of them, which is not uncommon. Right, The two hardest
plugs were left in the engine just to because we
(25:50):
couldn't get to those kind of you know, I just
scratched my head, I really do. The misfire was on seven. Interestingly,
when I pulled it upon art, the plug wire on
number seven just literally fell apart in my hands. And
once I had it open, once I had all the
plugs out, I did something I don't normally do, but
because I was looking for a problem, I did it.
(26:13):
I took a borscope. You know, a borscope is what
your plumber or your carpenter to look inside the walls
or the pipes might do. I did a camera inspection
inside the engine, and I could see a lot of
heavy carbon deposits all right two hundred and one thousand miles.
The inside of the engine looked like it oil was
clean inside. Looking inside the valve cover with it, you know,
was clean there. They had done their oil changes using
(26:35):
good oil and stuff, but you could see that, you know,
it had some carbon deposits. I don't think they knew
what fuel system cleaning was all about, or any type
of tank additive during the process to you know, help
maintain and keep the engine clean of carbon. So you know,
where do you start. Put a fresh set of plugs
(26:56):
in it, fresh set of wires, did two carbon cleaning,
ran it through twice, put a tank additive in it,
and lo and behold the misfire was gone cold. It
was fixed. And I was already to do injectors. I
was thinking we had an injector problem. GM does have
injector problems on this particular vehicle, if you have one.
They actually bumped the warranty ten years, one hundred and
fifty thousand miles. They've extended the warranty on all these
(27:19):
five threes in Silverados and suburbans and the like, the
tahoes and such because of such injector problems. But you know,
my point is that you know, if you're going to
commit to an older vehicle, you've really got to commit
to it. Okay, And Brian wasn't surprised he put thirty
five hundred dollars into a two hundred thousand mile vehicle.
(27:40):
But the alternative was if you went out and bought
something new, it's ninety to one hundred grand. And you
say that a couple of times, and you start to
compare it in your head, and you go, you know,
it's not so bad, is it. And it's it's it's
a game of patience and you can't be surprised. But
you've also got a you know, I liked what Brian did.
Run check it out, tell me front to back. What
(28:02):
do you think it needs. He paid us for our time,
and we were able to sit down and come to
an intelligent conclusion and a rational approach. And there's things
that we're not going to fix. We're not going to
fix the park sensors. Eventually, we'll fix the right rear
axle seal that's just starting to seep. You know, I've
still got to deal with the abs pulse and shake
that's going on at low levels below eight miles an hour.
(28:25):
But frankly, it happened so intermittently and so randomly. I said, listen,
this is the best. This thing is running a long time.
You know, why don't you just take it, drive it,
and you know, let's see where it goes. Oh and
the other thing that was crazy was it needed a thermostat.
Right Gary before I was just talking about a thermistad
on his Colorado. The engine was running one hundred and
seventy eight degrees. Now I know where all the carbon
(28:47):
deposits came from. And for whatever reason, it never set
a fault code. It never set a tempt related fault,
which it should have. So it might have been environment
that it was operated. And I understand it was up
on a cherry farm I think Brian said somewhere up
in Michigan, his family's cherry farm. But bottom line, you
can fix an older vehicle, you can get more mileage
(29:07):
out of it. I think it's just about approach. And
I think it's as much, you know, the responsibility of
you the vehicle owner, and you the technician that's working
on it, to have a real good conversation and good
communication to get the job done. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero running any of the car, Doctor,
I'll be back right up to this, don't go away,
(29:36):
welcome back. Well, let's do a put a piece of email.
Hey doctor, I have a two thousand eight Toyota land
Cruiser or running any of the car doctor, by the way,
bought it new. I get so excited. I want to
get into the emails. I bought a I have a
two thousand a Toyota Take two. Hi, I'm back, I
have a two thousand eight Toyota land Cruiser bought it new.
It has two hundred and twenty three thousand miles on
(29:56):
it Texas Highway miles, mostly full time four wheel drive. Recently,
I got in and started up one morning in the
VSC check engine light and low four wheel drive lights
were on. The car was in four wheel drive low.
Never touched the thing. Went to the Toyota dealer and
they were able to take it out of four wheel low,
but they said the sensor in the transfer case is malfunctioning.
Best if I just replaced the entire transfer case assembly
(30:18):
is they don't go into repair sensors anymore at the dealership.
I am looking at twenty five hundred dollars for the
part and thirteen hundred dollars for labor. I would like
to find a transmission shop here in Houston that can
have a look and possibly make the repair for a
lot less. The car otherwise is in great condition. Is
it worth trying to find the shop to repair the
sensor in the transfer case or best to replace the
whole assembly? Anyway to locate a used part. Let me
(30:39):
know your thoughts on how to keep the psychiconic car
on the road. For another hundred thousand miles. Thanks Jim.
You know, Jim, I'm going to start the last part first.
Any way to lookate to use part. So any used
part you get is going to be from a two
thousand and eight Toyota land Cruiser, so it's fifteen years old.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The problem is it'll have high mileage on it and
you could end up right back in this position. You know,
in my mind, you know, what are we gonna save here?
If the parts? You know, I think they're talking about
the four wheel drive actuator assembly which bolts to the
outside of the case. You know, if we're talking and
I'm gonna take a guest here, it's been a while,
five hundred bucks, you know, a couple hours of labor
(31:17):
there is it an eight hundred thousand dollars repair versus
a four thousand dollar repair. But then what do you get?
You still have a transfer case that has two hundred
and twenty five thousand miles on it and if you
want to go another one hundred thousand, and I guess
a lot of it depends on what sort of shape
is the transfer case, what does the fluid look like?
You know, has the fluid ever been serviced. You know,
you say Texas Highway miles mostly, Yeah, I get it.
(31:41):
You know, the chains do stretch, they do, you know,
slap the side of the case. It's it's got two
hundred and twenty five thousand miles on it. We're not
talking one hundred thousand. We're not talking one hundred and
fifty thousand. We're talking, you know, almost a quarter million miles.
So in the back of my mind, if you want
to keep this going longer, you know, I think think
you have. First of all, I think you have to
(32:01):
play what if if the transmission were to fail, would
you put a trans in it? Not common? They do fail,
but not common. Would you put a trans in it?
The engines are pretty bulletproof for a half a million miles.
But if you're having problems with the transfer case now
and someone can go through it, or you're telling me
that Toyota can get you a transfer case for twenty
(32:21):
five hundred dollars and thirteen hundred dollars labor to put
it in, hey listen. At least you know what you
got right, and then you're done. And I like that
because then you don't have to revisit it again. I
think the used part is a problem because I think
it's going to have the agent mileage against it. I
think if you can find a shop in the Houston area,
I don't know of any or I would be glad
to send you, you know, it's worth having them take
(32:44):
a look at it. I think a lot of shops
are getting skitterish about sensor repair on older vehicles with
high mileage because and understand their position two weeks from now,
when it develops a problem, it's ever since and since
you touched it, it's now yours, and you know, you
could sign all the papers in the world you want.
But I've been down this road myself a few times
(33:05):
and it's just not pleasant. So I think, you know,
you can try doing the shop thing. You can try
finding a shop, But I think for longevity, because when
you get to another hundred thousand miles out of this
and then all of a sudden, hey, I'll drive it
another hundred thousand, at least the transfer case is done
when you were able to get the part. And that's
the other thing to consider, because parts will disappear for
(33:26):
that over time, because it's fifteen years old eight five, five,
five six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running aiding
the car doctor. I'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Don't go away.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Now we're back and we're here to ramp things up.
Running the car Doctor at your surface. Quick piece of
email from Kathy doesn't say where she's from. On a
previous show, you shared your horror stories of replacing starters
on a Camaro L two and a collar out of
the six pickup. You really scared me because I have
these same vehicles parked in my garage. Should I sell both?
Get an EV No way, she says, big exclamation point.
(34:08):
I love the role of an internal combustion engine. Sent
from my iPad Kathy. Thanks Kathy, I appreciate that. I
think everybody appreciates the roar of an internal combustion engine.
And now I just think that you can't sell a
vehicle because it's going to have a difficult repair on it,
because they all have difficult repairs. And I think we
just have to get used to it and accept it.
And I think we have to ask more of our
mechanics and expect them to be trained and able to
(34:29):
deal with it. And I think you as consumers have
to be willing to pay the bill. It's not going
to get any cheaper to fix cars. It's as their
technology and they get more complicated, it's only going to
go up. And by the way, speaking of training, I
just want to bring up something we talk about the
NNGK NTK Shop Squad. If you Google search NNGK Shop
Squad you will find a link to their website and
(34:50):
if you've registered as a repair shop do it yourself
for etc. You know, we talk about the up and
coming webinars they've got going on, but they also give
you the ability look back at the webinars. You can
look back and see like the one they just did
recently about misfied diagnostics. Excellent webinar. I looked at it myself.
I really enjoyed it until the next time I'm ronning
Andy and the guard doctor reminding you good mechanics aren't expensive,
(35:13):
they're priceless. See
Host
Ron Ananian
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