August 12, 2023 • 35 mins
Ron starts this episode talking about how you click with some people when it comes to car repair with the story of a 12 Grand Cherokee : takes a call on a 14 Dodge Dart with multiple error codes and it is going into limp mode : takes a call on a 19 Fusion with transmission problems : takes a call on a 20 Jeep Compass where the engine has start stop technology and the caller has concerns.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
How's my driving.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'll tell you mom, write this number down one eight
hundred eat s eight.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Uh never mind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Ron A Aian radios are just an integral part of
the vehicle today. And I'm not saying you can never
get an aftermarket radio ever. Again, I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying it has to be installed correctly, the
car Doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I get this noise in my grayer end of my truck.
One guy says it's my rear end. It can't be fixed.
Another mechanic says that Juia wheels can be fixed.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Somebody else does.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That's my shock. I want you to get your hands
on this bullet and read it, and then make the
dealer read it. Clunking noise rear vehicle from leaf Spring Bolts.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
Welcome to the radio home of ron An Aian, the
Car Doctor since nineteen ninety one. This is where car
owners the world over to learn to for their definitive
opinion on automotive repair. If your mechanics giving you a
busy signal, pick up the phone and call in.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The garage doors are opening, but I am here to
take your call at eight five five five six oh
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hundred and now he.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Running.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Did you ever meet somebody and you know, have a
conversation and you knew within five minutes whether or not
you were just going to click and get it and
be on the same wavelength and not a question of
like or dislike. Just you know, all we all see
the world a little bit different. Some of us think
the sky is azure blue. Some of us thinks that's
(01:39):
sky blue. Some of them thinks it's pretty blue. You know,
there's different shades of blue. There's different shades of right
and wrong. There's different shades of my path, your path,
and my thought process, your thought process. I guess it's
difference of opinion, but some of it's silly when it
comes to cars. And I have an eyewitness to this.
He saw this happen. He was sitting there in the
(02:01):
shop when this happened. And he actually can verify that
what I'm saying is the absolute truth.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You must be talking about me.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
You were the eyewitness Tom. Tom was in the shop.
Was that Friday? Was that this past Friday? Right, yes, sir,
And we brought Tom in. Tom needed another oil change
his on his escape because you know this is going
to be the five hundred thousand mile we're gonna put
this car in the Smithsonian. One day at the way,
Tom rolls miles and he came down for you know,
a Friday morning oil change, and we were done doing
(02:32):
his oil change, and we were having our ten o'clock
coffee break, snack break as it were, and Tom came in.
Another Tom came in to pick up his twenty twelve
Jeep Brancherokee, and Tommy's Tommy's a nice enough guy. I've
known him forever. He's a he's a sort of regular customer.
He sometimes wanders away. I'm not sure why. And then
(02:55):
he comes right back, and you know, it's it's like dating, right,
you just dah, I'm not interesting, Yeah, okay, and then
you go see the other guy. Yeah, okay, he's not Okay,
I'm back that thing. So we all got done. We
got done servicing is jeep. We had fixed an exhaust leak.
It doesn't matter what we fixed, but we fixed an
exhaust leak. Chrysler, I gotta tell you, boy, now, I
understand why jeep means junk each and every part. Because
(03:18):
the exhaust clamps on a Jeep, all right, it's not
a traditional U clamp style clamp. It's a stainless steel
well it's not standard. It looks stainless, but it's a
it's a flat stamped steel clamp. I think there's some
element of stainless in it by the way it looks,
but it is magnetic, so it's not one hundred percent.
And the bolt at the top, which is made out
(03:39):
of the real cheesiest metal, snaps and so you have
to but to fix it you have to buy this clamp.
And this is a seventy five dollars clamp that Jeep sells.
It's just and you need two of them. So we
got done patching up Tom's jeep, fixing the exhaust on
the what's now at eleven year old jeep? Right, I
keep thinking it's new, it's not. I remember the day
bought it, and Tommy and I were talking about the
(04:00):
age of the truck and the jeep, and you know,
the things that he's done and hasn't done. He turned
to me and he said, and you know, I still
have the original battery in the car. And I was floored,
because sometimes when you wander away, you know, I can't
keep track. I don't know where you've been. It's not
like a doctor's office. They don't although I don't know
how much doctors do it, but they don't relay you know,
(04:22):
medical records like service records back and forth to say, well,
when he came to us, this is what we did,
and this is what we did when he was with us,
and so on. So a lot of times, in order
to repair, you're either going to guess or you're going
to try and do a checklist, which some people just
don't want to do. They don't see the value in it,
they don't want to spend the money. And others just
you know, they let you do what you have to do.
(04:45):
Tom was telling us, telling us all it was Danny.
Tom and I were in the room talking to the
other Tom. And Tom has explained to us he's got
a twelve year old battery and it works great and
it's and I said to myself.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Almost fell off my chair when he said that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, you know. And I said, but you know, five
six years average life cycle. We want to go the distance.
I mean, you're you know, you're I said, Tom, you're
the odd ball, You're the one that's you know, they
just don't go that long. And he said, yeah, but
that's like my my key problem because he's also got
a problem with this key. His jeep has that that
funky plastic key with the remote built in that you know,
(05:19):
the door lock has to recognize, or the geep has
to recognize for the door lock mechanism, the key when
it walks up, so it unlocks the door. And it
doesn't always work, so he has to fumble and take
out the manual key unlock it, and then it may
or may not start, and he has to fumble that.
And he explained to us his procedure and process. And
he said, but it always starts. And I said, yeah,
but a lot of times it sets off the alarm.
(05:40):
I said, Tom, you've got an unstable battery or an
older battery. You've got an unstable remote access unlocked system. Yeah,
but it never fails. It always starts for me. It
always gets me going, it always and I'm thinking and
I'm looking, you know, you ever like when somebody says,
God never hits me with a lightning bolt, and you're
looking through the ceiling like where's it coming from? You know,
like you're just expecting it. You don't stand near chimneys
(06:03):
and open windows when people say that. And he walks out,
you know, he left, He paid his Billy walked out.
All was good, and we're sitting there munching on our bagels,
and it was between the three of us there was
that collective wow, right Tom, was that collective wow energy
was in the room, like we just couldn't believe what
we had just.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Heard, oh exactly, and then and then and then then
he proceeds to go out to the car and he
goes to start the car, and all of a sudden,
you hear his alarm going off, the horns honking, the
lights are flashing, and I said, wait, because if his
process works, he should be able to turn it off
(06:41):
within thirty seconds. And we sat there quietly, munching our bagels,
and it just and a minute went by, and two
minutes went by, and two and a half minutes went by,
and we looked out the window and all he could do,
all poor Tom could do. He's looking at his key
and he's trying to figure out what to do and
(07:02):
why it's happening, which is replicant of the conversation we
had not three minutes prior. Danny, would you go, please
rescue Tom. So Danny walks out, and you know, Danny
knows the trick. We've shown him.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Danny knows the trick. It's you pop out the start button,
you put it in the lock cylinder that's there in
the in the in the dashboard, and it turned off
the alarm. And then he didn't come back in, which
is the best part. He didn't come back in to say, Okay,
I want to get this diagnosed and repaired. You know,
(07:39):
when I see cars stuck on the side of the road,
I feel sorry for people, and I still do. I wonder,
what's you know? And I will stop from time to
time if I think there's something I can do, if
they're in a dangerous situation, if they're alone, you know,
wait till help arise, make sure they can get help that.
But you know, a lot of times now lately, I wonder,
are they creating their own problem? Tom's creating his problem.
(08:03):
He's not ready. It's it's the vehicle is not set
to go at the drop of a hat. And I
think vehicles have to be ready to go at the
drop of a hat, because you never want an emergency's
gonna come up. Hence, hence the definition of emergency, something
unexpected of gigantic proportions. It's gonna have some sort of
an impact on you and the surrounding neighborhood. You know,
the part that really sort of floors me. And I didn't.
(08:26):
I don't think I told my Tom this, but maybe
I did the other time with the jeep. He's a
volunteer fireman, and I just wonder, you know, if the
alarm goes off at three in the morning, will his
car start? Will he get there? What's the reliability factor?
Speaker 6 (08:45):
You know, I'd like to have a picture of all
three of our faces, you, me and Danny when that
thing was going off, because that's when you mentioned he
was a fireman.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
One of the things I've learned, and I take this
and I mean this very very seriously. You know, sometimes
I get up on stick and I kid with you guys,
but you know, the road is a very unforgiving place,
and emergencies and accidents they have no timeline, they have
no guidelines. They happen when they want to happen. The
problems come up when they want to come up. There's
(09:18):
no way to predict it, and you've got to be prepared,
you know. Listen, I was a boy scout for four
years I never got pasted the rank of tenderfoot. That's
a whole nother story for another day, because I was
too busy working on the Scoutmaster's car to tell you
the truth. But you know, at the age of fourteen,
but you know, you got to be prepared. You got
(09:39):
to be ready. And I encourage all of you as
we kick off this hour of the Car Doctor welcome.
By the way, don't be like Tom. You know, batteries
have a lifespan. Key fobs, if they're broken, there's a
reliability factor and it's not going to get any cheaper
as time goes by. And at the best it's going
to is break down in front of a repair shop.
(10:01):
The worst it's going to break down at two o'clock
in the morning in the middle of nowhere. And you know,
either one's not a good scenario because it's going to
interrupt your day. It just depends to what degree. And
you know how bad you want to be inconvenient, So
be a good scout, be prepared. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running ating of
(10:22):
the car Doctor. I'll be right back after this. Don't
go away. I don't see.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
A vehicle not taking you where you want to go, Well,
call Ron, He's the expert at making your vehicle take
you where you need it eight.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Five five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
And now back to Ron.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Hey, let's go out to John and Elco, Nevada. John.
Welcome to the car doctor, Sir, how can I help?
Speaker 7 (10:47):
Yeah? I have a two thousand and fourteenth Dodge Dark
zero Okay, it's got to one point four. Uh, if
you'll inject, I'm multi injecting with turbo. And and uh,
what started it all is I replaced cabin filter and
after he placed it, I drove about two miles. Then
(11:10):
it went into status mode on me. Limpin and front
of mine came over and put a code reader on it,
and he came up with about six codes on it.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay. So to do to do the cabin filter on
that vehicle? Is that where the cabin filter comes out
the driver's.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Side, No, it comes out the passenger comes.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Out the passenger side, okay. And what sort of FULK
codes did you have?
Speaker 7 (11:39):
I had a P one six A zero.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (11:44):
And then I had a P two one two two
and a P two one seven, then a U one
one four A you zero one zero four and a
U one one five six okay, P six So.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The use the user communication faults, the twenty one and
the twenty one twenty seven are related to the accelerator,
pedal position, censor or assembly. And what was the what
was the first one.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
That you said, Uh A P one six A zero.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Okay, P one six A zero is related. And when
you did this, you took out from the passenger.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
Side, Yeah, I took it out. I vacuumed where the
filter went into right because it was empty. It had
a lot of dog hair and all that stuff in it,
so I figured I'd better sweep it out, uh, and
all that stuff. I swept it out, put the filter
back in it, closed it all up. Uh. Drove about
(12:56):
two three miles down to the gas station, left the
running as I was stealing it, and on the way home,
I didn't even go a mile until my check engine
light on and anti traction light came on. Okay. And
when an angel A stas mode.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
P zero one six eight you said, or P one
zero six.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
Eight, P one eight apple zero.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay, P one a apple zero I'm not familiar with,
so I've got to get I'd have to.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
When I googled it for the code, It said.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Edward Thomas Electronic throttle Control. Okay, well you were you
were nowhere near any of the throttle control material. Did
you disconnect any connectors?
Speaker 7 (13:50):
No, I just took one screw out, vacuumed it, put
the filter back in, and put screw back in.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Okay, because this is all referencing the throttle pedal assembly,
which is on the other side, right, it's on the
driver's side down by the down on the floor. That's
the traditional gas pedal. All right, right, if you clear
the codes, do they come right back?
Speaker 7 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, so you've got a hard fault. So the next
step is we've got a troubleshoot it. Now what this
is all about is this is a drive by wire car.
Like so many cars today, there is no direct connection
between the engine and the and the pedal assembly. It's
all done by wiring. Okay, So if you were if
you were to diagnose the twenty one to twenty two
(14:34):
and the twenty one to twenty seven, they talk about
connectivity Down at the accelerator pedal. There's a five vault
signal that comes out on two separate wires, goes to
the accelerator pedal assembly. Then there's a separate ground for
each circuit that goes back to the PCM, the main
engine powertrain control module. All right, and this is talking
(14:55):
about signals being pulled low or short to ground on
both legs. Oh okay, all right, so you know, obviously
I'm gonna tell you to go back over the cabin filter.
Is there is there wiring harness near where you worked
that you could somehow have pinched, pushed on, not realized
(15:15):
and damaged that feeds the other side of it.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
No wiring, there's no wiring there.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
This was a straight open the door. Put put it
back in, and we're done, right, Okay, Then we're gonna
have to look and you can start if you can
with a scan tool to look at and if you'r
does your scan tool display data?
Speaker 7 (15:38):
It's one of the it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's a cheaper one, doesn't matter if it's cheaper, cheaper, cheaper,
high dollar? Is it? Does it display data stream? Does
it at least show you ob D two? Does it
show you basic data?
Speaker 7 (15:51):
It just gives you the code and that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay and all that. Yeah, then you can't really fix
it with that because I don't I don't want to
send you down to the accelerator pedal assembly unless you
got a wiring diagram and a digital vault ometer and
you're good with wiring that you could start to pick
it out. But somebody would need to look at data
stream and what signals do they see coming out of
that accelerator pedal assembly. I you know, just for the conversation,
(16:15):
go ahead, I.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Could undineath where the pedal is, the pedal and the
censor unit. It's all one piece. Yep. There's five wires
coming off of it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Right, that's correct. There's two or five vault supply, two
or ground and one is going to be if memory
serves me correct, the main five vault supply to the
throttle body itself. Okay, So actually I take that back.
You've got two accelerator pedal signals, you've got two accelerator
pedal grounds. You should have six wires.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
I think there was five on it my memory, because
it's out in another place where I got I lmed
it two.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Okay, but there should be six wires. There should be
two rounds, two five volt references and two accelerator pedal
signals one and two if not you If not, you've
got something unique. I believe there's six okay, so maybe
that's part of the problem where the sixth wire go.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
Right, because I never touched anything over there. I wasn't
anywhere near it.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Right right now, I get it, John, I get it.
I would wherever it is, whoever's working on it. Your
next step is going to be to have them look
at accelerator pedal signal. You know, And this is simple
to do. This is basic stuff, you know. Drive by
wire car is simply a throttle position censor on steroids.
There there's two centers at the accelerator pedal, all right.
(17:47):
One goes zero to five volts, one goes five volts
to zero. There's two censors at the throttle body at
the other end. One goes five vaults to zero. One
goes zero to five vaults. They're always opposite and correlating
and checking each other to make sure everybody's where they're
supposed to be. That's how the computer knows there's a fault.
So it sounds like there's a hard wiring fault somewhere
(18:09):
in this vehicle. This should actually be fairly easy to test,
just a matter of either scoping or scan graphing that, etc.
Of that throttle pedal assembly, that accelerator pedal assembly, and
working your way out from there. If you need a
wiring diagram, send me an email. I'm running ny in
the car doctor. We'll be back right after this. Don't
go away. Sounds like the death star is coming. Run
(18:55):
Nani in the card doctors here first though, let's get
over to Christian in Kentucky. Nineteen fusion and welcome to
the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, I've got a nineteen fusion and I had a
thirteen also, and both the thirteen went out transmission went
out at about one hundred and sixty eight thousand miles.
And now I've got a twenty nineteen transmission.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
With one hundred and sixty two.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Thousand and it'll drive fine for a week, and then
it will start to act like it hits out of
the air, like the transmission floods level is low, okay,
And so then it'll kind of rend like, you know,
like you're riding a clutch on a motorcycle, right. And
it may do that for a day or two, and
then I can drive it for another week or two
(19:39):
and not have a bit of problem with it. Man,
You know, everybody just keeps saying, hey, it's a you
just need to rebuild the whole transmission or put a remanufactured.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yet, how many how many miles are on this Christian
one hundred.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Sixty two hundred and sixty eight? I know the fusion
has issues with transmission?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Well, everything has Everything has issues with transmissions. So you
know that's a that's a generic statement. How many how
many times you could changed the trans fluid?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
About four times?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, all right, it's fair, that's fair. Is it setting
any fault codes?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
No, I'm not getting any service lights or anything like
I did on the thirteen. So it's just kind of
you know, it's odd not you know, I'm taking it
to transmission shops, and you know it's kind of oi
those odd things. I was just you know, looking and
trying to debate if I want to try to rebuild
it myself.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Well components, you know, here's here's here's here's where I
think you're going to end up. All right, No, you know,
not that. I don't think you could rebuild it if
you ever rebuilt an automatic transmission before, I should probably
ask that question.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, old back in the day.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, old school stuff, right.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Fund school stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sure, How did I know that? I kind of had
that in the back of my head. Yeah, you know,
we we've all done that, right, you know at some
point needless to say, it's transmissions to transmission. But the
newer stuff is it's different but the same. The problem is, well,
let me ask let me say this too. First step,
regardless of whether there's a light on or not on
(21:11):
the dish, has anybody scanned for fault codes?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Okay, they found and haven't found anything. Okay, that's fair.
The reason I say that is because a lot of
time is it pending? Is it about to happen? But
it hasn't happened yet. In your case, it hasn't happened.
That's not even setting a fault. And it does what
it it flares and its shift, it's just a longer
shift between two gears.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, it's like if you're sitting at the stoplight you
start to take off, It's like you're riding the clutch
coming out of you know, on a motorcycle, right, you know,
it's just kind of slow going to echine reds but
aren't moved and all of a sudden picks up a
little speed and then it goes. Now sometimes it may
be where I'm in it lands like you're low on
transmission to it and just lam and I've taken the
(21:55):
board dealership and then look at it.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I just you know, anyway, if you if you now
you've got it, obviously you've got it, and drive at
that point correct? Yes, what have you tried putting it
down into first when it doesn't?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I have not reached up manually and put it in
a burst and done that through the manual.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I always do that because I want to know am
I starting out in the proper gear? That Sometimes that
that tells me something right where I'm starting out in
second gear for some reason, And I'll pull the trends
into first, and all of a sudden it drives normal,
and then I'll, you know, I'll manually shift it. And
then at least I can say, okay, I'm starting out
in the wrong gear. Where does that put me? And
(22:38):
then I'll look at an oil flow chart and say, well,
you know, I don't think it's going to matter because
the labor to get the trends out of your car
is going to be prohibitive to just repairing it. I
think you're gonna end up doing an overhaul. My concern
is is it mechanical in the trans or is it
electronic on the outside?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Right, And the thirteen I had rebuilt and it lasted.
You know, I drove it two hundred and sixty eight
thousand miles last thannother one hundred thousand miles with a rebuild.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I traded it in on the nineteenth, right, so you know,
and that was a at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That was a you know, thirty two hundred dollars repair.
Now that's repairs, you know, thirty eight to forty six
hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And you know, I'm just trying to side you go
to a low mileage one that's from a wrecking yard,
or you know, and chance and put it in yourself
or pay somebody to do it. That's that's really the level.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I think. If the low mileage one from the wrecking
yard is five hundred bucks, I think you do it yourself.
If it's if it's an exact match, all right, you know,
the question is what are the wrecking yards asking for them?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
They're they're looking. I mean, you can find them online
for you know, eight hundred bucks, right or so eight hundred,
nine hundred dollars, and so to me that seems reasonable, right,
But you could also buy a whole complete transmission rebuild
kit with steel balls rather than the little plastic forcelain
balls or whatever they say that can be causing problems
with these electronic shifts in these newer cars. And you know,
(24:16):
you can buy these kids for like four hundred and
fifty dollars five hundred dollars, and that's the new valve
body and everything. So that's why I was just kind
of I'm going to delimit. You know, I still owe
seven grand on the car. I'm not going to get
that trade in with that type of mind.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, I get it, I get it. Let me, let me,
let me. Let me ask you this question. Do you
have the time to rebuild this transmission yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Over a week?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (24:40):
I could do it, yes, Okay?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Is that a week that you're gonna miss work or
you got something else to drive?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I work from home and I have something else I
could drive you.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, then yeah, rebuild it yourself. Rebuild it yourself, because
that way you know what was done right. If listen,
I never deter anybody from doing something themselves. If you
I think you've got the gumption. And I'm not saying
you do or don't. It sounds like you do. To
tell you the truth. If you think you can rebuild
it yourself, just you know, you got to be aware
you're gonna run to a couple of special tools there
(25:09):
here and there. But I've come to the conclusion that
there are people out there like yourself that are going
to be creative and innovative and either borrow tools or
build something that make it work to you know, to
press clutch packs and put things apart.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And you know that's well, I was asking, you know,
is it worth trying to rebuild a new electronic with electronics?
Is you know I haven't dove into one before, right, Well,
totally different, you know, it's the same but different.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'll answer the question this way, then all right, if
that's if that's what the real question is, because if
originally I thought it was a matter of saving dollars.
Our local trans rebuilder, the guy that will send transmissions
to and say here because we don't do transit in
house anymore. For just this reason, we haven't done transis
in house in about fifteen years. Our local builder in town,
(25:55):
he would buy a unit from Ford and install it.
He wouldn't build it himself. And when I asked him
want and that's what most people right, well, when I
ask him why, because the tolerances inside those transmissions today
are so critical. It's not just air checking something with
an air hose to see if the ball moves anymore.
There's there's a lot more to it because well, one
(26:16):
of the reasons is there's there's less to a transmission
in terms of you know, case sized, diameter, strength, et cetera.
You know, they're they're they're taking weight out where they can.
They're trying to get things down to an exact science,
to an exact moment, to an exact point of failure.
If you want my opinion that you know, it's it's
a very much more precise piece of equipment that thirteen
to the nineteen, that nineteen to twenty three, if we
(26:39):
talk about a newer vehicle. So you know, that's why
I say, how much time do you have? Right? You know,
it's it's how much time do you have? If My
point is if a local builder that's been doing them
for fifty years, fifty five years as policy in his
shop won't rebuild them in the shop. That tells me something,
(27:01):
you know, that's that's that's the commitment. You know, that's
like here in New Jersey. As far as this sounds,
I'm just curious. You're in Kentucky. How many engine machine
shops do you have in your area near your house? Any? Ten? Five?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
There's there's one left. We still got some track late
model stuff around.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Okay, that's one, but there's one in our town.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
There there was probably.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Four right right, there isn't There isn't an engine There
isn't an engine machine shop rebuilder. Uh, North Jersey as
far as I know from the city of Newark, North
and that's a pretty big area. So you know, that's
another reason things don't get rebuilt in in in shops
anymore because of there's no demand. And when the demand
(27:48):
goes away, the skill set goes away, the special tools
go away, so everything collectively goes back to the bigger sources,
in this case, the manufacturer who's rebuilding that trends, testing
it and then sending it out with a guarantee.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So, well, do you have a recommendation of two besides
the board dealership, because I know there are some transmission
people to buy remanufactured. One of the one of the dealers,
one of the transmission shop says, yeah, we want to
rebuild it. We'll just we'll buy a doing because it
comes with a three year, thirty six mile right and
where Jasper, is there anybody else out there that is
recommendable for new.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I'll tell you what if Jasper's not doing it, Jasper's
not doing it for a reason, all right, So I
think it kind of gets into I think it kind
of gets into if Jasper's not doing it, I think
your best bet is forward, as you know, there's a reason,
there's something there. They're doing there. They see something, they
want to do something, and they're they're giving you a warranty,
(28:41):
best control go to from dealer to deal in nationwide coverage.
I think you've answered your own question. Good luck to you, Christian.
Let us know what you decide, and I'll look forward
to what you end up doing. I'm running ending in
the car Doctor. We're back right after this every every way.
(29:04):
See welcome back, Running the car Doctor. Let's let's go
over to Francine and Delaware. Franccene. Welcome to the car Doctor.
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yes, Hello, this is not the first time I've spoken
to you. Thanks for your help. I have a twenty
twenty cheap compass what new have less than five thousand
miles on it? I get it, oil changes, you know, well,
whenever needed. At the dealership they and I think I
talked to you about this, They put in a battery
(29:35):
maintainer because I wasn't driving the car enough. So that's
been working fine. My question today is that cheap? That
model cheap? When you go to a full stop signed,
you know, or a full stop at the light, the
engine goes way down, almost off, supposedly to save gasoline,
(29:56):
but as I'm finding out from others, not the best thing.
Some people turn them off all together, okay, because they
say it could cause damage to other parts of the car.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
So are you are you're you're telling me that this
vehicle has start stop technology where it will pull down
to a stop sign and shut off and then restart.
Or you're saying it idles low.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It must idle very low. I don't think it turns
off all together, but it idled very low.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well, if you look at the if you look at
the engine techometer, your vehicle has a spinometer and an
engine speed indicator. Correct?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Is the engine speed indicator go to zero?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I really haven't paid attention to that.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I'll have to look.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
But the gentleman that answered the phone when I called,
he said his daughter has a car like that, and
he understands the circumstances, and he told her to turn
it off.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, yeah, let's back up thought's but let's keep apples
to apples, all right? In reference in reference to the jeep,
All right, if we're talking about start stop or is
it really a low idle speed. The reason I'm asking
is because that particular jeep, the Compass, in eighteen and nineteen,
they had problems with the wiring harness under the passenger
(31:20):
side seat where the harness was having poor connectivity by
the inboard seat mounts, and damage to the harness would
cause the vehicle to actually stall and you may or
may not get a fault code. So that's why I'm asking.
You know, I'm wondering, are you having a stalling event
or are you seeing a start stop event and misconstruing
it for a problem, So you know this is really no.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
No, I don't think that is a problem. They're saying
others that have the jeeps are saying that you're better
off turning that item off for good so that it
does not and supposedly save you. Guess, because this on
(32:04):
off that it does or goes high and low, it
could cause a problem to other parts of the car.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Gotcha? Okay, now I got you.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
We whether it's a transmission or whatever else.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, So I'm going to tell you this first of all,
starts stop is part of federal emissions control policy. That
being said, I'm also trying to be practical about this.
I'm not a fan of start stop. It's more wear
and tear on the starter. It's more wear and tear
on the vehicle. I also don't like the idea of
on a cold winter morning, the vehicle shuts off. Well,
(32:40):
I know that runs until it warms up, but then
the vehicle shuts off in cold weather as the vehicle
gets older. Will it start each and every time? You know,
there's a point of security. The vehicle starts at your house.
If it fails to start, you get out, you walk
back into the house. If the vehicle stalls or shuts
off two miles from the house after it's warmed up
and it doesn't rest, you're not walking that two miles
(33:01):
and freezing cold weather. That's a problem. Francene, sit tight.
Let me pull over and take a pause. I want
to finish up with you on the other side of this,
and then we'll get you solved. I'm running any in
the car. Doctor will return right after this. Who's gone
and got Welcome back? Running in the car, doctor, Francine Delaware,
(33:26):
you're still there.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yes, I'm here, So start stop.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know, they came out with it six seven years ago.
They deem it an essential part of the emission control
plans going forward because yeah, they're trying to cut down
on emissions, they're trying to save fuel. I see it
as wear and tear on the vehicle. I see an
awful lot of wear and tear on the vehicle. You know,
the oil change becomes critical, the battery becomes critical. The
(33:50):
starter should it ever failed, that starter is oh, I
don't know if if a gas engine starter is two
three hundred dollars, that start stop starter, because it's so
much more heavy duty is anywhere from eleven hundred to
fifteen hundred dollars and up for the average start stop vehicle.
It just becomes more expensive. There are software manufacturers, or
(34:11):
there are hardware manufacturers that have software that would plug
into the OBD two port that will cause that vehicle
to bypass and not allow start stop to happen. You'd
have to do some research to find them online and
then obviously read the reviews before we plug something in.
Is everybody satisfied with it? The one thing I want
to leave you with is there's a bulletin from Chrysler
(34:31):
with regards to the throttle body on your vehicle. All right,
bulletin number nine dish double O three dash twenty. It
came out ninesh double O three dash twenty. I believe
it's revision C or D nine. Yes, maam, it's revision
C or D. They talk about potential problems with the
(34:51):
throttle body on that vehicle. You may want to take
it into your jeep dealer and ask them to review
make sure that that does not apply to your vehicle
so you're not caught short and that could be causing
your low IDOL issue. But you know, as gars far
as start stop goes, those are my thoughts. I appreciate
the conversation Frans scene. I'm on an ending of the
card doctor reminding you the mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
See you
How's my driving.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'll tell you mom, write this number down one eight
hundred eat s eight.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Uh never mind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Ron A Aian radios are just an integral part of
the vehicle today. And I'm not saying you can never
get an aftermarket radio ever. Again, I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying it has to be installed correctly, the
car Doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I get this noise in my grayer end of my truck.
One guy says it's my rear end. It can't be fixed.
Another mechanic says that Juia wheels can be fixed.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Somebody else does.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That's my shock. I want you to get your hands
on this bullet and read it, and then make the
dealer read it. Clunking noise rear vehicle from leaf Spring Bolts.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
Welcome to the radio home of ron An Aian, the
Car Doctor since nineteen ninety one. This is where car
owners the world over to learn to for their definitive
opinion on automotive repair. If your mechanics giving you a
busy signal, pick up the phone and call in.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The garage doors are opening, but I am here to
take your call at eight five five five six oh
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hundred and now he.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Running.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Did you ever meet somebody and you know, have a
conversation and you knew within five minutes whether or not
you were just going to click and get it and
be on the same wavelength and not a question of
like or dislike. Just you know, all we all see
the world a little bit different. Some of us think
the sky is azure blue. Some of us thinks that's
(01:39):
sky blue. Some of them thinks it's pretty blue. You know,
there's different shades of blue. There's different shades of right
and wrong. There's different shades of my path, your path,
and my thought process, your thought process. I guess it's
difference of opinion, but some of it's silly when it
comes to cars. And I have an eyewitness to this.
He saw this happen. He was sitting there in the
(02:01):
shop when this happened. And he actually can verify that
what I'm saying is the absolute truth.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You must be talking about me.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
You were the eyewitness Tom. Tom was in the shop.
Was that Friday? Was that this past Friday? Right, yes, sir,
And we brought Tom in. Tom needed another oil change
his on his escape because you know this is going
to be the five hundred thousand mile we're gonna put
this car in the Smithsonian. One day at the way,
Tom rolls miles and he came down for you know,
a Friday morning oil change, and we were done doing
(02:32):
his oil change, and we were having our ten o'clock
coffee break, snack break as it were, and Tom came in.
Another Tom came in to pick up his twenty twelve
Jeep Brancherokee, and Tommy's Tommy's a nice enough guy. I've
known him forever. He's a he's a sort of regular customer.
He sometimes wanders away. I'm not sure why. And then
(02:55):
he comes right back, and you know, it's it's like dating, right,
you just dah, I'm not interesting, Yeah, okay, and then
you go see the other guy. Yeah, okay, he's not Okay,
I'm back that thing. So we all got done. We
got done servicing is jeep. We had fixed an exhaust leak.
It doesn't matter what we fixed, but we fixed an
exhaust leak. Chrysler, I gotta tell you, boy, now, I
understand why jeep means junk each and every part. Because
(03:18):
the exhaust clamps on a Jeep, all right, it's not
a traditional U clamp style clamp. It's a stainless steel
well it's not standard. It looks stainless, but it's a
it's a flat stamped steel clamp. I think there's some
element of stainless in it by the way it looks,
but it is magnetic, so it's not one hundred percent.
And the bolt at the top, which is made out
(03:39):
of the real cheesiest metal, snaps and so you have
to but to fix it you have to buy this clamp.
And this is a seventy five dollars clamp that Jeep sells.
It's just and you need two of them. So we
got done patching up Tom's jeep, fixing the exhaust on
the what's now at eleven year old jeep? Right, I
keep thinking it's new, it's not. I remember the day
bought it, and Tommy and I were talking about the
(04:00):
age of the truck and the jeep, and you know,
the things that he's done and hasn't done. He turned
to me and he said, and you know, I still
have the original battery in the car. And I was floored,
because sometimes when you wander away, you know, I can't
keep track. I don't know where you've been. It's not
like a doctor's office. They don't although I don't know
how much doctors do it, but they don't relay you know,
(04:22):
medical records like service records back and forth to say, well,
when he came to us, this is what we did,
and this is what we did when he was with us,
and so on. So a lot of times, in order
to repair, you're either going to guess or you're going
to try and do a checklist, which some people just
don't want to do. They don't see the value in it,
they don't want to spend the money. And others just
you know, they let you do what you have to do.
(04:45):
Tom was telling us, telling us all it was Danny.
Tom and I were in the room talking to the
other Tom. And Tom has explained to us he's got
a twelve year old battery and it works great and
it's and I said to myself.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Almost fell off my chair when he said that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, you know. And I said, but you know, five
six years average life cycle. We want to go the distance.
I mean, you're you know, you're I said, Tom, you're
the odd ball, You're the one that's you know, they
just don't go that long. And he said, yeah, but
that's like my my key problem because he's also got
a problem with this key. His jeep has that that
funky plastic key with the remote built in that you know,
(05:19):
the door lock has to recognize, or the geep has
to recognize for the door lock mechanism, the key when
it walks up, so it unlocks the door. And it
doesn't always work, so he has to fumble and take
out the manual key unlock it, and then it may
or may not start, and he has to fumble that.
And he explained to us his procedure and process. And
he said, but it always starts. And I said, yeah,
but a lot of times it sets off the alarm.
(05:40):
I said, Tom, you've got an unstable battery or an
older battery. You've got an unstable remote access unlocked system. Yeah,
but it never fails. It always starts for me. It
always gets me going, it always and I'm thinking and
I'm looking, you know, you ever like when somebody says,
God never hits me with a lightning bolt, and you're
looking through the ceiling like where's it coming from? You know,
like you're just expecting it. You don't stand near chimneys
(06:03):
and open windows when people say that. And he walks out,
you know, he left, He paid his Billy walked out.
All was good, and we're sitting there munching on our bagels,
and it was between the three of us there was
that collective wow, right Tom, was that collective wow energy
was in the room, like we just couldn't believe what
we had just.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Heard, oh exactly, and then and then and then then
he proceeds to go out to the car and he
goes to start the car, and all of a sudden,
you hear his alarm going off, the horns honking, the
lights are flashing, and I said, wait, because if his
process works, he should be able to turn it off
(06:41):
within thirty seconds. And we sat there quietly, munching our bagels,
and it just and a minute went by, and two
minutes went by, and two and a half minutes went by,
and we looked out the window and all he could do,
all poor Tom could do. He's looking at his key
and he's trying to figure out what to do and
(07:02):
why it's happening, which is replicant of the conversation we
had not three minutes prior. Danny, would you go, please
rescue Tom. So Danny walks out, and you know, Danny
knows the trick. We've shown him.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Danny knows the trick. It's you pop out the start button,
you put it in the lock cylinder that's there in
the in the in the dashboard, and it turned off
the alarm. And then he didn't come back in, which
is the best part. He didn't come back in to say, Okay,
I want to get this diagnosed and repaired. You know,
(07:39):
when I see cars stuck on the side of the road,
I feel sorry for people, and I still do. I wonder,
what's you know? And I will stop from time to
time if I think there's something I can do, if
they're in a dangerous situation, if they're alone, you know,
wait till help arise, make sure they can get help that.
But you know, a lot of times now lately, I wonder,
are they creating their own problem? Tom's creating his problem.
(08:03):
He's not ready. It's it's the vehicle is not set
to go at the drop of a hat. And I
think vehicles have to be ready to go at the
drop of a hat, because you never want an emergency's
gonna come up. Hence, hence the definition of emergency, something
unexpected of gigantic proportions. It's gonna have some sort of
an impact on you and the surrounding neighborhood. You know,
the part that really sort of floors me. And I didn't.
(08:26):
I don't think I told my Tom this, but maybe
I did the other time with the jeep. He's a
volunteer fireman, and I just wonder, you know, if the
alarm goes off at three in the morning, will his
car start? Will he get there? What's the reliability factor?
Speaker 6 (08:45):
You know, I'd like to have a picture of all
three of our faces, you, me and Danny when that
thing was going off, because that's when you mentioned he
was a fireman.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
One of the things I've learned, and I take this
and I mean this very very seriously. You know, sometimes
I get up on stick and I kid with you guys,
but you know, the road is a very unforgiving place,
and emergencies and accidents they have no timeline, they have
no guidelines. They happen when they want to happen. The
problems come up when they want to come up. There's
(09:18):
no way to predict it, and you've got to be prepared,
you know. Listen, I was a boy scout for four
years I never got pasted the rank of tenderfoot. That's
a whole nother story for another day, because I was
too busy working on the Scoutmaster's car to tell you
the truth. But you know, at the age of fourteen,
but you know, you got to be prepared. You got
(09:39):
to be ready. And I encourage all of you as
we kick off this hour of the Car Doctor welcome.
By the way, don't be like Tom. You know, batteries
have a lifespan. Key fobs, if they're broken, there's a
reliability factor and it's not going to get any cheaper
as time goes by. And at the best it's going
to is break down in front of a repair shop.
(10:01):
The worst it's going to break down at two o'clock
in the morning in the middle of nowhere. And you know,
either one's not a good scenario because it's going to
interrupt your day. It just depends to what degree. And
you know how bad you want to be inconvenient, So
be a good scout, be prepared. Eight five five five
six zero nine nine zero zero. I'm running ating of
(10:22):
the car Doctor. I'll be right back after this. Don't
go away. I don't see.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
A vehicle not taking you where you want to go, Well,
call Ron, He's the expert at making your vehicle take
you where you need it eight.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Five five five six zero nine nine zero zero.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
And now back to Ron.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Hey, let's go out to John and Elco, Nevada. John.
Welcome to the car doctor, Sir, how can I help?
Speaker 7 (10:47):
Yeah? I have a two thousand and fourteenth Dodge Dark
zero Okay, it's got to one point four. Uh, if
you'll inject, I'm multi injecting with turbo. And and uh,
what started it all is I replaced cabin filter and
after he placed it, I drove about two miles. Then
(11:10):
it went into status mode on me. Limpin and front
of mine came over and put a code reader on it,
and he came up with about six codes on it.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay. So to do to do the cabin filter on
that vehicle? Is that where the cabin filter comes out
the driver's.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Side, No, it comes out the passenger comes.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Out the passenger side, okay. And what sort of FULK
codes did you have?
Speaker 7 (11:39):
I had a P one six A zero.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (11:44):
And then I had a P two one two two
and a P two one seven, then a U one
one four A you zero one zero four and a
U one one five six okay, P six So.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The use the user communication faults, the twenty one and
the twenty one twenty seven are related to the accelerator,
pedal position, censor or assembly. And what was the what
was the first one.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
That you said, Uh A P one six A zero.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Okay, P one six A zero is related. And when
you did this, you took out from the passenger.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
Side, Yeah, I took it out. I vacuumed where the
filter went into right because it was empty. It had
a lot of dog hair and all that stuff in it,
so I figured I'd better sweep it out, uh, and
all that stuff. I swept it out, put the filter
back in it, closed it all up. Uh. Drove about
(12:56):
two three miles down to the gas station, left the
running as I was stealing it, and on the way home,
I didn't even go a mile until my check engine
light on and anti traction light came on. Okay. And
when an angel A stas mode.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
P zero one six eight you said, or P one
zero six.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
Eight, P one eight apple zero.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay, P one a apple zero I'm not familiar with,
so I've got to get I'd have to.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
When I googled it for the code, It said.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Edward Thomas Electronic throttle Control. Okay, well you were you
were nowhere near any of the throttle control material. Did
you disconnect any connectors?
Speaker 7 (13:50):
No, I just took one screw out, vacuumed it, put
the filter back in, and put screw back in.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Okay, because this is all referencing the throttle pedal assembly,
which is on the other side, right, it's on the
driver's side down by the down on the floor. That's
the traditional gas pedal. All right, right, if you clear
the codes, do they come right back?
Speaker 7 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, so you've got a hard fault. So the next
step is we've got a troubleshoot it. Now what this
is all about is this is a drive by wire car.
Like so many cars today, there is no direct connection
between the engine and the and the pedal assembly. It's
all done by wiring. Okay, So if you were if
you were to diagnose the twenty one to twenty two
(14:34):
and the twenty one to twenty seven, they talk about
connectivity Down at the accelerator pedal. There's a five vault
signal that comes out on two separate wires, goes to
the accelerator pedal assembly. Then there's a separate ground for
each circuit that goes back to the PCM, the main
engine powertrain control module. All right, and this is talking
(14:55):
about signals being pulled low or short to ground on
both legs. Oh okay, all right, so you know, obviously
I'm gonna tell you to go back over the cabin filter.
Is there is there wiring harness near where you worked
that you could somehow have pinched, pushed on, not realized
(15:15):
and damaged that feeds the other side of it.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
No wiring, there's no wiring there.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
This was a straight open the door. Put put it
back in, and we're done, right, Okay, Then we're gonna
have to look and you can start if you can
with a scan tool to look at and if you'r
does your scan tool display data?
Speaker 7 (15:38):
It's one of the it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's a cheaper one, doesn't matter if it's cheaper, cheaper, cheaper,
high dollar? Is it? Does it display data stream? Does
it at least show you ob D two? Does it
show you basic data?
Speaker 7 (15:51):
It just gives you the code and that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay and all that. Yeah, then you can't really fix
it with that because I don't I don't want to
send you down to the accelerator pedal assembly unless you
got a wiring diagram and a digital vault ometer and
you're good with wiring that you could start to pick
it out. But somebody would need to look at data
stream and what signals do they see coming out of
that accelerator pedal assembly. I you know, just for the conversation,
(16:15):
go ahead, I.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Could undineath where the pedal is, the pedal and the
censor unit. It's all one piece. Yep. There's five wires
coming off of it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Right, that's correct. There's two or five vault supply, two
or ground and one is going to be if memory
serves me correct, the main five vault supply to the
throttle body itself. Okay, So actually I take that back.
You've got two accelerator pedal signals, you've got two accelerator
pedal grounds. You should have six wires.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
I think there was five on it my memory, because
it's out in another place where I got I lmed
it two.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Okay, but there should be six wires. There should be
two rounds, two five volt references and two accelerator pedal
signals one and two if not you If not, you've
got something unique. I believe there's six okay, so maybe
that's part of the problem where the sixth wire go.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
Right, because I never touched anything over there. I wasn't
anywhere near it.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Right right now, I get it, John, I get it.
I would wherever it is, whoever's working on it. Your
next step is going to be to have them look
at accelerator pedal signal. You know, And this is simple
to do. This is basic stuff, you know. Drive by
wire car is simply a throttle position censor on steroids.
There there's two centers at the accelerator pedal, all right.
(17:47):
One goes zero to five volts, one goes five volts
to zero. There's two censors at the throttle body at
the other end. One goes five vaults to zero. One
goes zero to five vaults. They're always opposite and correlating
and checking each other to make sure everybody's where they're
supposed to be. That's how the computer knows there's a fault.
So it sounds like there's a hard wiring fault somewhere
(18:09):
in this vehicle. This should actually be fairly easy to test,
just a matter of either scoping or scan graphing that, etc.
Of that throttle pedal assembly, that accelerator pedal assembly, and
working your way out from there. If you need a
wiring diagram, send me an email. I'm running ny in
the car doctor. We'll be back right after this. Don't
go away. Sounds like the death star is coming. Run
(18:55):
Nani in the card doctors here first though, let's get
over to Christian in Kentucky. Nineteen fusion and welcome to
the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, I've got a nineteen fusion and I had a
thirteen also, and both the thirteen went out transmission went
out at about one hundred and sixty eight thousand miles.
And now I've got a twenty nineteen transmission.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
With one hundred and sixty two.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Thousand and it'll drive fine for a week, and then
it will start to act like it hits out of
the air, like the transmission floods level is low, okay,
And so then it'll kind of rend like, you know,
like you're riding a clutch on a motorcycle, right. And
it may do that for a day or two, and
then I can drive it for another week or two
(19:39):
and not have a bit of problem with it. Man,
You know, everybody just keeps saying, hey, it's a you
just need to rebuild the whole transmission or put a remanufactured.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yet, how many how many miles are on this Christian
one hundred.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Sixty two hundred and sixty eight? I know the fusion
has issues with transmission?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Well, everything has Everything has issues with transmissions. So you
know that's a that's a generic statement. How many how
many times you could changed the trans fluid?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
About four times?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, all right, it's fair, that's fair. Is it setting
any fault codes?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
No, I'm not getting any service lights or anything like
I did on the thirteen. So it's just kind of
you know, it's odd not you know, I'm taking it
to transmission shops, and you know it's kind of oi
those odd things. I was just you know, looking and
trying to debate if I want to try to rebuild
it myself.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Well components, you know, here's here's here's here's where I
think you're going to end up. All right, No, you know,
not that. I don't think you could rebuild it if
you ever rebuilt an automatic transmission before, I should probably
ask that question.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, old back in the day.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, old school stuff, right.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Fund school stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sure, How did I know that? I kind of had
that in the back of my head. Yeah, you know,
we we've all done that, right, you know at some
point needless to say, it's transmissions to transmission. But the
newer stuff is it's different but the same. The problem is, well,
let me ask let me say this too. First step,
regardless of whether there's a light on or not on
(21:11):
the dish, has anybody scanned for fault codes?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Okay, they found and haven't found anything. Okay, that's fair.
The reason I say that is because a lot of
time is it pending? Is it about to happen? But
it hasn't happened yet. In your case, it hasn't happened.
That's not even setting a fault. And it does what
it it flares and its shift, it's just a longer
shift between two gears.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, it's like if you're sitting at the stoplight you
start to take off, It's like you're riding the clutch
coming out of you know, on a motorcycle, right, you know,
it's just kind of slow going to echine reds but
aren't moved and all of a sudden picks up a
little speed and then it goes. Now sometimes it may
be where I'm in it lands like you're low on
transmission to it and just lam and I've taken the
(21:55):
board dealership and then look at it.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I just you know, anyway, if you if you now
you've got it, obviously you've got it, and drive at
that point correct? Yes, what have you tried putting it
down into first when it doesn't?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I have not reached up manually and put it in
a burst and done that through the manual.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I always do that because I want to know am
I starting out in the proper gear? That Sometimes that
that tells me something right where I'm starting out in
second gear for some reason, And I'll pull the trends
into first, and all of a sudden it drives normal,
and then I'll, you know, I'll manually shift it. And
then at least I can say, okay, I'm starting out
in the wrong gear. Where does that put me? And
(22:38):
then I'll look at an oil flow chart and say, well,
you know, I don't think it's going to matter because
the labor to get the trends out of your car
is going to be prohibitive to just repairing it. I
think you're gonna end up doing an overhaul. My concern
is is it mechanical in the trans or is it
electronic on the outside?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Right, And the thirteen I had rebuilt and it lasted.
You know, I drove it two hundred and sixty eight
thousand miles last thannother one hundred thousand miles with a rebuild.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I traded it in on the nineteenth, right, so you know,
and that was a at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That was a you know, thirty two hundred dollars repair.
Now that's repairs, you know, thirty eight to forty six
hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And you know, I'm just trying to side you go
to a low mileage one that's from a wrecking yard,
or you know, and chance and put it in yourself
or pay somebody to do it. That's that's really the level.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I think. If the low mileage one from the wrecking
yard is five hundred bucks, I think you do it yourself.
If it's if it's an exact match, all right, you know,
the question is what are the wrecking yards asking for them?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
They're they're looking. I mean, you can find them online
for you know, eight hundred bucks, right or so eight hundred,
nine hundred dollars, and so to me that seems reasonable, right,
But you could also buy a whole complete transmission rebuild
kit with steel balls rather than the little plastic forcelain
balls or whatever they say that can be causing problems
with these electronic shifts in these newer cars. And you know,
(24:16):
you can buy these kids for like four hundred and
fifty dollars five hundred dollars, and that's the new valve
body and everything. So that's why I was just kind
of I'm going to delimit. You know, I still owe
seven grand on the car. I'm not going to get
that trade in with that type of mind.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, I get it, I get it. Let me, let me,
let me. Let me ask you this question. Do you
have the time to rebuild this transmission yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Over a week?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (24:40):
I could do it, yes, Okay?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Is that a week that you're gonna miss work or
you got something else to drive?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I work from home and I have something else I
could drive you.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, then yeah, rebuild it yourself. Rebuild it yourself, because
that way you know what was done right. If listen,
I never deter anybody from doing something themselves. If you
I think you've got the gumption. And I'm not saying
you do or don't. It sounds like you do. To
tell you the truth. If you think you can rebuild
it yourself, just you know, you got to be aware
you're gonna run to a couple of special tools there
(25:09):
here and there. But I've come to the conclusion that
there are people out there like yourself that are going
to be creative and innovative and either borrow tools or
build something that make it work to you know, to
press clutch packs and put things apart.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And you know that's well, I was asking, you know,
is it worth trying to rebuild a new electronic with electronics?
Is you know I haven't dove into one before, right, Well,
totally different, you know, it's the same but different.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'll answer the question this way, then all right, if
that's if that's what the real question is, because if
originally I thought it was a matter of saving dollars.
Our local trans rebuilder, the guy that will send transmissions
to and say here because we don't do transit in
house anymore. For just this reason, we haven't done transis
in house in about fifteen years. Our local builder in town,
(25:55):
he would buy a unit from Ford and install it.
He wouldn't build it himself. And when I asked him
want and that's what most people right, well, when I
ask him why, because the tolerances inside those transmissions today
are so critical. It's not just air checking something with
an air hose to see if the ball moves anymore.
There's there's a lot more to it because well, one
(26:16):
of the reasons is there's there's less to a transmission
in terms of you know, case sized, diameter, strength, et cetera.
You know, they're they're they're taking weight out where they can.
They're trying to get things down to an exact science,
to an exact moment, to an exact point of failure.
If you want my opinion that you know, it's it's
a very much more precise piece of equipment that thirteen
to the nineteen, that nineteen to twenty three, if we
(26:39):
talk about a newer vehicle. So you know, that's why
I say, how much time do you have? Right? You know,
it's it's how much time do you have? If My
point is if a local builder that's been doing them
for fifty years, fifty five years as policy in his
shop won't rebuild them in the shop. That tells me something,
(27:01):
you know, that's that's that's the commitment. You know, that's
like here in New Jersey. As far as this sounds,
I'm just curious. You're in Kentucky. How many engine machine
shops do you have in your area near your house? Any? Ten? Five?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
There's there's one left. We still got some track late
model stuff around.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Okay, that's one, but there's one in our town.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
There there was probably.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Four right right, there isn't There isn't an engine There
isn't an engine machine shop rebuilder. Uh, North Jersey as
far as I know from the city of Newark, North
and that's a pretty big area. So you know, that's
another reason things don't get rebuilt in in in shops
anymore because of there's no demand. And when the demand
(27:48):
goes away, the skill set goes away, the special tools
go away, so everything collectively goes back to the bigger sources,
in this case, the manufacturer who's rebuilding that trends, testing
it and then sending it out with a guarantee.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So, well, do you have a recommendation of two besides
the board dealership, because I know there are some transmission
people to buy remanufactured. One of the one of the dealers,
one of the transmission shop says, yeah, we want to
rebuild it. We'll just we'll buy a doing because it
comes with a three year, thirty six mile right and
where Jasper, is there anybody else out there that is
recommendable for new.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I'll tell you what if Jasper's not doing it, Jasper's
not doing it for a reason, all right, So I
think it kind of gets into I think it kind
of gets into if Jasper's not doing it, I think
your best bet is forward, as you know, there's a reason,
there's something there. They're doing there. They see something, they
want to do something, and they're they're giving you a warranty,
(28:41):
best control go to from dealer to deal in nationwide coverage.
I think you've answered your own question. Good luck to you, Christian.
Let us know what you decide, and I'll look forward
to what you end up doing. I'm running ending in
the car Doctor. We're back right after this every every way.
(29:04):
See welcome back, Running the car Doctor. Let's let's go
over to Francine and Delaware. Franccene. Welcome to the car Doctor.
How can I help?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yes, Hello, this is not the first time I've spoken
to you. Thanks for your help. I have a twenty
twenty cheap compass what new have less than five thousand
miles on it? I get it, oil changes, you know, well,
whenever needed. At the dealership they and I think I
talked to you about this, They put in a battery
(29:35):
maintainer because I wasn't driving the car enough. So that's
been working fine. My question today is that cheap? That
model cheap? When you go to a full stop signed,
you know, or a full stop at the light, the
engine goes way down, almost off, supposedly to save gasoline,
(29:56):
but as I'm finding out from others, not the best thing.
Some people turn them off all together, okay, because they
say it could cause damage to other parts of the car.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
So are you are you're you're telling me that this
vehicle has start stop technology where it will pull down
to a stop sign and shut off and then restart.
Or you're saying it idles low.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It must idle very low. I don't think it turns
off all together, but it idled very low.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well, if you look at the if you look at
the engine techometer, your vehicle has a spinometer and an
engine speed indicator. Correct?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Is the engine speed indicator go to zero?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I really haven't paid attention to that.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I'll have to look.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
But the gentleman that answered the phone when I called,
he said his daughter has a car like that, and
he understands the circumstances, and he told her to turn
it off.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, yeah, let's back up thought's but let's keep apples
to apples, all right? In reference in reference to the jeep,
All right, if we're talking about start stop or is
it really a low idle speed. The reason I'm asking
is because that particular jeep, the Compass, in eighteen and nineteen,
they had problems with the wiring harness under the passenger
(31:20):
side seat where the harness was having poor connectivity by
the inboard seat mounts, and damage to the harness would
cause the vehicle to actually stall and you may or
may not get a fault code. So that's why I'm asking.
You know, I'm wondering, are you having a stalling event
or are you seeing a start stop event and misconstruing
it for a problem, So you know this is really no.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
No, I don't think that is a problem. They're saying
others that have the jeeps are saying that you're better
off turning that item off for good so that it
does not and supposedly save you. Guess, because this on
(32:04):
off that it does or goes high and low, it
could cause a problem to other parts of the car.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Gotcha? Okay, now I got you.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
We whether it's a transmission or whatever else.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, So I'm going to tell you this first of all,
starts stop is part of federal emissions control policy. That
being said, I'm also trying to be practical about this.
I'm not a fan of start stop. It's more wear
and tear on the starter. It's more wear and tear
on the vehicle. I also don't like the idea of
on a cold winter morning, the vehicle shuts off. Well,
(32:40):
I know that runs until it warms up, but then
the vehicle shuts off in cold weather as the vehicle
gets older. Will it start each and every time? You know,
there's a point of security. The vehicle starts at your house.
If it fails to start, you get out, you walk
back into the house. If the vehicle stalls or shuts
off two miles from the house after it's warmed up
and it doesn't rest, you're not walking that two miles
(33:01):
and freezing cold weather. That's a problem. Francene, sit tight.
Let me pull over and take a pause. I want
to finish up with you on the other side of this,
and then we'll get you solved. I'm running any in
the car. Doctor will return right after this. Who's gone
and got Welcome back? Running in the car, doctor, Francine Delaware,
(33:26):
you're still there.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yes, I'm here, So start stop.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know, they came out with it six seven years ago.
They deem it an essential part of the emission control
plans going forward because yeah, they're trying to cut down
on emissions, they're trying to save fuel. I see it
as wear and tear on the vehicle. I see an
awful lot of wear and tear on the vehicle. You know,
the oil change becomes critical, the battery becomes critical. The
(33:50):
starter should it ever failed, that starter is oh, I
don't know if if a gas engine starter is two
three hundred dollars, that start stop starter, because it's so
much more heavy duty is anywhere from eleven hundred to
fifteen hundred dollars and up for the average start stop vehicle.
It just becomes more expensive. There are software manufacturers, or
(34:11):
there are hardware manufacturers that have software that would plug
into the OBD two port that will cause that vehicle
to bypass and not allow start stop to happen. You'd
have to do some research to find them online and
then obviously read the reviews before we plug something in.
Is everybody satisfied with it? The one thing I want
to leave you with is there's a bulletin from Chrysler
(34:31):
with regards to the throttle body on your vehicle. All right,
bulletin number nine dish double O three dash twenty. It
came out ninesh double O three dash twenty. I believe
it's revision C or D nine. Yes, maam, it's revision
C or D. They talk about potential problems with the
(34:51):
throttle body on that vehicle. You may want to take
it into your jeep dealer and ask them to review
make sure that that does not apply to your vehicle
so you're not caught short and that could be causing
your low IDOL issue. But you know, as gars far
as start stop goes, those are my thoughts. I appreciate
the conversation Frans scene. I'm on an ending of the
card doctor reminding you the mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
See you
Host
Ron Ananian
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