Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Please welcome to the stage all forever.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Vice President Kamala Harad.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good evening, good afternoon, good evening, Thank you all, Thank
you all for taking the time to be with us
this afternoon. And Charlamagne, thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, it's happy hour. We should be drinking or something
we should have. We should have more than water in
these cups. How are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I am well. Thank you for asking. It's good to
be back in Birmingham. It really is who It was
important to me to come back here and well, I
love you back, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It being on the book top, I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We can't understand what you just said. Being on the
book tour, I feel like being back out on the
campaign trail.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's different, but it's good to be out and talking
with folks and most of all, listening to folks. It's
similar in terms of it's a pretty intense schedule, but
not nearly as intense as one hundred and seven days,
and it's a different time. We got a lot to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Lots to talk about. Well, you know, I loved one
hundred and seven days.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And the reason I loved one hundred and seven days
is because I just love honesty, you know, and it
felt like, you know, you got a lot off of
your chest, a lot of things that you've been wanting
to say, but I guess I couldn't say you decided
to say in the book.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Was that a hard process?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So writing the book was a process of reflection for me,
and I tend to be very task oriented, and especially
in those hundred and seven days. You know, my prayer
every night was God, please let me have done everything
I could have done in that day, and thank you.
(02:08):
And then of course the election happened, and then after
that I certified the election January sixth. That was a
very difficult day. I write about that, and then the inauguration.
And before the inauguration, actually Doug and I, my husband
(02:29):
and I were packing up DC to go back home
to California, and the wildfires erupted in California and we
were literally Charlemagne packing boxes watching the TV when the
chirn said fire approaching Kamala Harris's house. We were actually
(02:51):
under a mandatory evacuation from our house in LA. We
were in DC, but we could not go back to
our house, and the evacuation wasn't lifted until January nineteenth,
and the election was on the I mean, the inauguration
was on the twentieth. So not until the day before
the inauguration that we needed to leave did we know
if we'd even have a home to go back to.
All of that to say, there really was not much
time for reflection for me. And then when I got back,
(03:16):
it was about literally and figuratively unpacking, and there was
a lot to unpack. And I decided to write about
the one hundred and seven days and to reflect in
a way I had not allowed myself before. And the
reflection is about the joys. It's about the ups, the downs,
(03:39):
the reflection around how I would have done some things differently.
But also I write the book with the hopes that
we all will remember the optimism and the feeling of
(03:59):
the possibilities for our country. Dare I say the joy
that we will remember that in a way that reminds
us it's in us. It's in each of us, and
we cannot let the outcome of one election or one
individual or circumstance dim or extinguish that light that is
(04:23):
in each of us y and especially in moments of darkness,
that is, in particular when we need to see that
light in ourselves, in each other, to shine a light
on this path and to take us to the next
(04:44):
step where we do not lose our fight and we
understand that it is worth it because we love our
country and it is our country. It is our country.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Have been have you been shocked by the reaction to
the book, because you know, I've heard people say, oh,
it's just a book full of excuses, But I'm like, well,
did you read it? Because the person that you hold
the most accountable is herself, and I think you took
take a little too much blame.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
If you ask me, well, I listen. I believe in
speaking truth, and I do talk about, for example, certain
interviews I would have done differently, certain decisions or things
that I would have said are done differently. But you know, look,
I didn't write the book for the pundits, and frankly
(05:34):
just to be very candid, because why not just continue
to be candid. I do believe that God will judge us,
not based on what other people say about us, but
based on what we do. And so that's how I
feel about that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
You write about finding your own voice during those hundred
and seven days. What parts of you felt silenced while
you were serving as vice president.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Can not find my voice. I always had my voice,
it wasn't lost. But I was vice president, I was
not president, and it's the first time in my elected
career that I was not the number one. I was
the number two, and that took some adjustment, there's no question,
But the reality of it is during the campaign those
(06:23):
one hundred and seven days, I was able to do
a lot of what I do believe is important about
talking about the needs of the American people in a
way that was reflective of my priorities. One of the
things I've reflected on, for example, is that we did
a lot of good work in our administration, but I
(06:45):
would have done some things differently. For example, we did
the Infrastructure built, which was very important and very good
good work. We did the Chips Act, which was about
technology and what we need to do in terms of
creating and manufacturing it here in the United States. But
(07:06):
if I had to do it again and do it differently,
I would have first done the family piece that was
about extension of the child tax credit, paid family leave,
affordable childcare. I would have done that first. Putting money
in people talking well and to deal with the immediate needs.
(07:27):
And that's why in the one hundred and seven days,
I prioritize just exactly that. So my priority in one
hundred and seven days included what we needed to do
based on my own experience taking care of my mother
when she was sick, which is getting Medicare to cover
home health care. For those of us who are taking
(07:48):
care of our family members and in particular the Sandwich
generation as we call those folks who are raising young
children and taking care of your elder parents and relatives.
My priority was around getting homeowners or potential homeowners down
payment assistance so they could have formen home. Things of
(08:09):
that nature. Were the priorities that I had in one
hundred and seven days that I was able to effectuate
because I was the top of the ticket.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, I never understood, and we talked about this before, like,
you know, the economy does better when they are Democrats
in the White House. That's right, Statistical, that's right, that's right.
But Democrats are never able to message that to the
American people.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Why, well, that's a broad statement, Charlmayne. I mean I
think that, but to your point, I will say this,
I do believe that when we reflect on where we are,
and reflect on where we are in the context of
the election in twenty four you know, one third of
the voters voted for the current president, one third voted
(08:57):
for us, and one third did not vote. So part
of it is the first takeaway for me, we have
a lot of work to do on that one third
that did not vote. About figuring out what we need
to do to connect and allow people to know their
voice is important and a priority. The other piece of
it is to remember two thirds did not vote for
(09:20):
this man. And also when we are then thinking about
you know, and everyone has a relative, a neighbor or
coworker who voted differently than them, and when we're trying
(09:40):
to reconcile it all, I would suggest that part of
what we should agree is on is that I do
believe there are a fair number of people who voted
for the current president on one issue, which is they
believed him when he said he would bring down the
costs and prices. They believed him because that was their
(10:03):
number one issue. Now, he did not tell the truth.
There are young children here, so I'll say it that way.
He did not tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
There's a lot of kids in him.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yes, it's kind of the mad nae.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
By eight o'clock show. Will you should have came to
the eight o'clock show. We will the data clutch.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And and and and as and as evident with the
fact that price of groceries is up, inflation is up,
unemployment is up as of today, he did not tell
the truth. But when we try to reconcile the differences
around how people voted in the election, I think there's
some work that we have to do to one recognize
(10:48):
who did not vote, also to ask for a certain
subsection of who did vote other than differently than we did. Why.
And the other piece that I would ask us to
reflect on is let's also not make assumptions that the
people who voted differently than us are working with the
(11:09):
same set of information. And this goes to your point.
And I didn't say that a different set of facts
because there's two plus two us for every day, all
the time. That's a fact, but a different set of information.
(11:29):
And I do believe again, part of why I wrote
the book is what did we learn that helps us
figure out today in the future. Part of one of
the biggest challenges to our democracy is mis and disinformation.
Which is rampant and is everywhere, And how do we
focus on that as part of what is ailing us
(11:52):
as a society and a democracy. And how do we then,
each of us think of our own power and our
elective power to do what we can to make sure
we are working with the same information in terms of facts.
That's part of the work we need to do.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, I wonder if people just don't know what to
believe because it's so much information.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
I think that's part of it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And how do you how do you direct people to say, hey, no,
this is actually the truth. Because everybody, even when they're
telling their lives things that they're telling the truth.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I think some people are telling lies and they know
they're telling lies, they do, and they're doing it to
distract from what they're really up to. H you know
part of this, you know what I'm saying, right, Well.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Damn, what are they doing in the dark?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Because I swear everything they're doing in the lights seems crazy?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Well you know that, but you know, but but you're
so Okay, here's why we need to understand. We're not
the crazy ones. Okay, it's the matinee. So here's the thing,
(13:14):
is that part of it is that they are basically
trying to give and throw out information that is inaccurate
to distract from what they are up to, which is
that this is one of the most corrupt, callous, and
incompetent presidents of the United States we've ever had. And
(13:44):
part of what they're attempting to do is to suggest,
which is about gas lighting and scapegoating, that it is
those who are relatively powerless that are the cause for
our predicament. To distract from us looking at the powerful.
(14:07):
They're basically saying to people, you have less because of
people who have even less than you, to distract from
what they are doing to line their pockets with corrupt
(14:27):
and dare I say, it's certainly unconstitutional behaviors that are
about a few people amassing and centralizing power to the
exclusion of the whole. They are working against the best
(14:50):
interest of working people in America. This shut down, by
the way, they're trying to again scapegoat on this. Let's
be clear who owns, who runs the House, who runs
the Senate, who's in the White House, who's to blame
for the shut down? Thank you, yeah, come on, you're right.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
But then there's polls that say, there's poles that came
out yesterday that say most of America is starting to
blame Democrats for the shutdown, Like how do you combat that?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
What we have to keep reminding folks of who's in power.
And again, this is my point, that they are trying
to deflect from the people who are in power, to
absolve them from any responsibility for what's happening in our
country right now, and we can't let them. And that's
where I always will say that ultimately, part of my
(15:52):
optimism about you know, and it's waned a bit since
the election, I give you that, but it's still here.
And part of my optimism is always going to be
because there are those who are powerful in those places,
but the greatest power is with the people. The greatest
power is with the people and our ability to then
(16:16):
talk with each other and remind each other of what
is actually happening and deconstructed in a way that we
can see where the dots line up in terms of
where this leads to who is actually responsible. And you know, look,
I think that part of what we have to also
understand is so much of what we are experiencing now.
(16:39):
I know it feels overwhelming I know that it is
a source of everything from great sadness, depression to anger.
It results in people rightly feeling like, you know, put
the covers over my head, wake me up when it's over.
It's exhausting, It is all of that, and it feels chaotic.
(17:04):
But here's what you are. But no, no, no, no no,
because here's the thing. Let's not conflate what feels chaotic
with what is actually a high velocity event that is
about the swift implementation of a plan that has been
decades in the making. That's what we are witnessing. Project
(17:26):
twenty twenty five did not just fall out of the sky.
The Federalist Society, the Heritage Foundation, this stuff has been
decades in the making. Part of what I write about
is you look at it's the person who's in the
White House right now. Is an interesting combination of a
(17:49):
pattern that was taking place where it's almost you can
attribute it to Ronald Reagan's celebrity, Newt Gingrich's base level
of discourse, and Pat Buchanan's nativism, all piled into one.
What we are.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yes, and that's not a drink you want.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well, but think about it. Think about think about how
this path has been building over a period of time.
This thing about what they're doing to try and destroy
the Department of Education school lunch programs, head start, this
is not new. This has been part of a longstanding
agenda to attack public education, what they're doing with the FCC.
(18:38):
And I will tell you, yes, I predicted just about
all of it.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I've been wanting her to stay that for so long.
But what I wanted you to tweet it in all caps.
I was right about every everything, but.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
The one thing I did not predict. I did not
predict the capitulation. I did not, you know, I, among
many things, am a lifelong and therefore devout public servant.
I've worked with the private sector over the years, doing
good work, and I have always believed that if push
(19:21):
came to shove, the titans of industry would at some
point be the guardrails around our democracy. And instead, what
we have seen is titans of industry bend the knee
at a foot of a tyrant. One has to ask why,
(19:44):
and I think the answer is obvious. Either it's because
they heard what I said on the debate stage that
the man yields to favor and flattery, so say he
should get a Nobel Peace Prize, or because they want
a merger approved, or they want to avoid an investigation,
(20:05):
or they just think that I don't know, they're going
to lose their house in the Hamptons and they're yacht,
they'll be okay, But the level of fear and the
thing that I have to say is whether it be
members of Congress, including members of the president's on party,
(20:27):
or those CEOs or titans of industry, this is the
thing that's so is so troubling and disappointing. Doesn't begin
to explain it. They know it's not right. They know
it's not right. It's not like we have to evangelize
about a good number of these people who are doing
(20:49):
nothing or are yielding. They know it's not right, but
they're feckless. They are not willing to stand up and right, baby,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I know you said why, but but why like like
like seriously, has America always been a house of cars?
Have these people just been, you know, waiting for their
opportunity to show who they really are?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Like?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
What is it? But I do believe that it is
about power. It is about power. And this this is
not new to America. It is probably the most blatant
example in recent history. But it is and this is
why I again say, but the greatest power is with
the people, and we will continue to know that and
(21:44):
exert that. But we we got some work to do
that is about us, kind of like getting some rest
after that last election and then getting back out there
tomorrow is a is a big day, no.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Kings rally, right, right, Let's look at it in terms
of I mean most recently that that win.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
This again, the person in the White House who has
just got this fragile little ego, so sensitive and could
not take the jokes of a political satirest so uses
a r e the FCC, a federal agency which is
(22:36):
the people's agency, to threaten retribution and they take the
man off the air of political satires. But what happened
The people spoke with your pocketbooks. That's right. And Kimmel
is back on the stage.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Right by the way, I loved Kamala Harris. I mean
this is the one.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
When when you were writing the book, did you think
about the critics who say you're too overly cautious and
you play it too safe.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I didn't write it for them. What we're in.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Why why is it so hard for a lot of
politicians to just like defire the political fight a political
script and just say what they really feel, especially in
the position you were in.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
You know, first of all, I think that it's really
important that people know where they stand, and especially at
this moment in time, and if you if you understand
where you are grounded in terms of your morals and
your values and your principles, this is not a time
to splice and dice words. It's a time to speak truth.
(24:09):
And that's what people need to do. And by the way,
and let's not put all the let's not put all
the responsibility only on Democrats though, because everybody needs to
speak truth. And that gets back to my point about
what's happening in the Republican Party. I served in the
Senate for four years. I served in Congress as a
(24:30):
United States Senator, and I know, I know how some
of these folks think, and I know they know what's
happening is wrong. But there I guess into self preservation
as their first priority over the oath they took to
the Constitution of the United States, and that's a shame.
And then and there are the ones, and then there
(24:52):
are also to make the point. They are also the
ones who have decided not to run for reelection because
they can't stand and to be in that environment where
they are suppressed. Talk about being silenced from going against
the herd. Because one of the things that the Republican
Party does very well is discipline and you know, fall
(25:16):
in line. They do that very well, and you know,
one could argue that that's part of the genius of
their success. But I don't know if that's part of
what we think of as being who we are the
spirit of Americans and who we are as Americans, which
is to stand up for what we believe is right
and for the principles of our constitution, like our count
(25:39):
equality and freedom and fairness and justice.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I guess that's what's scary when you talk about you know,
you know, these people are thinking about self preservation because
they're moving like there's not an election next year, there's
not an election in twenty twenty eight. Like they're moving
like you know what this is gonna be, He's gonna be.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Here for a while.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I don't know if that's right. I think that there
are First of all, i'd say that part of the punditry,
the political pundits that I think I would like them
to think differently. I'm getting kind of bored with the
whole chatter, especially on cable news, that is this whole
(26:18):
like savior complex. Who is the Savior? Who is the one?
Where's the Messiah? We have a lot of stars in
the party. We have a lot of stars. And instead
of everyone spending full time just getting themselves all twisted
(26:41):
up about who is the one? What is the one?
See that we have so many and let's see what
where our riches are and go out with a sense
of the fight that is grounded in what we know
to be right, and instead of all these circular conversations.
I find it actually at this point quite boring.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
These pundits might be really calling for Jesus at a
time like this, though they might.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Well, I'm just talking about the people who are on
earth right now.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
How much how much of Kamala Harris in this book
is the politician and how much is the woman who's
just who just don't give.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
A f no more.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
I'm the same person that I've always been, and so
that's just it.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Do you do you? We cannot hear you. You don't
know what you say?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Do you feel like the Democratic Party truly supported your
leadership or they just relieved you could study the ship
after Biden stepped aside.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
But that's a big thing to say the Democratic Party there.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Was what a Biden administration?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well, I write about it instry. I write about how
I felt about people in their answers feel like. But
here's the thing. If we think about where we are
now and moving forward, we've got to have the fight
in us and we have to understand that this is
(28:26):
not a time for sitting around complaining about all they
are cheating. They're just not fair, they're not playing by
the rules. We need to fight fire with fire.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
We need to fight fire with fire. So when I
look at where the Democratic Party is today, that's what
I applaud those who are understanding that this is not
a time to try and be the ones who are
holding up the standard when they are stealing our lunch.
(29:02):
We will not compromise our values or principles. These things
can coexist where we have our principles and our values,
but we know how to roll up our sleeves and
throw a punch instead of just taking a punch.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Her I wish we asked Johnny Walker or something, because this.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Is good anybody that's.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
The that's literally the only thing that like like for me,
it's like this is this is the Kamala Harris we
all know and we love, and this is why we
like seeing you just be honest at a time like this. Now,
another thing I want to talk about, Like we've all
seen the clips of people interrupting you at these book events, right,
(29:53):
please nobody do that tonight?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
All right?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And it always makes me wonder if they've read the book,
like the people who are in supportive palt us not,
have they actually read the book? Because in the book
you called Biden's comments on Gaza inadequate and forced. What
word would you use to describe the administration's role in
that moment?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
I firmly believe we could have done more. We had
a certain level of leverage that we did not exercise.
Whether it was about what we did in terms of
supplying support at what level? It about what about speaking
(30:44):
publicly about what we knew to be wrong? I think
we could have done more and should have.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Did you ever feel complicit in decisions as right? Did
you ever feel complicit in decisions that went against your conscience?
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I the people in the administration were very clear about
how it felt.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, you wrote that Net and Yahoo wanted Trump in
the seat across from him, not you, not Joe. So
what do you think that's said about how foreign leaders
really view, you know, the current administration and the Biden administration.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I think, and I again, for the sake of repetition,
I predicted it, and it's exactly what we're saying. I
said on the debate stage, they one are laughing at us.
If you look at it in the context of, again
(31:51):
a disgraceful speech that the president gave before the United Nations.
He did it when he was president the first time,
and again was disgraceful. You look at it in terms
of the whole flattery or favor. He accepted a plane,
(32:18):
the president of the United States, from a foreign government.
Remember we all learned back in the day, what is
a trojan horse? Some people might call it a jet plane.
I'd call it a trojan horse. And let me tell
you something. I spent four years flying around the world
(32:41):
on Air Force two and taking very important, highly classified
meetings with the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, generals
and others in an environment on that plane that was
highly protected for those classified conversations, because you can only
(33:06):
imagine how much foreign governments want to have access to
our classified information which we possess in the best interest
of our national security. And this man wants a big
plane so bad because you know, his plane is not
that big, that Trump plane, and he wants it so
(33:30):
he can have it when he's out of office. They
talk about giving it to the library. You know who's
going to be flying around on that plane. And this
is on top of remember early on they were using
Signal Charlemagne to plan out war plans. We would get
(33:52):
ourselves out of bed in the middle of the night,
all of us wherever we were to go to what
it was called what it's called a skiff, which is
a secure facility, or go to the situation room to
have those conversations. These people are so lazy that they're
sitting back texting each other about war plans, and then
(34:16):
so dumb to not know a reporter as in the
tax chain.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
With our national security interests at stake, And if it
weren't so incredibly harmful, it would be the thing of
a great comedy sketch.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
It will be any but it's extre.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And this is the thing about having people who don't
fully appreciate the strength and power and therefore solemn responsibility
that comes with these issus that it is not about them,
(35:03):
It is about you, It is about us. It is
about we the people. And that is what is so tragic.
Put aside personalities, put aside egos or lack thereof, the
matters that we are discussing are such a grave and
(35:23):
important nature that to have people who do not understand
the that they possess the power in the public trust
and to instead be convinced of their personal entitlement is
so incredibly dangerous to who we are as a country. Well,
(35:49):
let's save each other. That we're here to save each other.
We are doing this together. We have midterms coming up,
and we have local, state, and federal elections, and this
is a time for us we cannot afford to. Let's
(36:09):
never let anybody take our power from us. Let's never
let anybody or situation take our power from us. It
is ours. And whether it is just read or amping
up the engagement with our friends, our neighbors, our cousins
and play cousins, whether it be what we do to
(36:32):
you know, be more active in our church or where
we pray, whether it be to get more involved in
nonprofit organizations which are so thinly spread right now, and
being attacked by this administration, and then and then being
a part of whether it be peaceful protests or or
getting involved in the next election cycle. Let's not seed
(36:55):
our power. Let's not seed our power, because then they win.
We cannot let our spirit be defeated. Then they win.
So that's the charge for us. All We will get
through this, but I cannot guarantee it won't get worse
before it gets better. Right, So let's be clear eyed.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
How much worse do you think it could get?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
I mean, God only knows every day, something is happening
every single day, and so I don't know how much
worse it can get. But we should assume it's going
to get worse, and maybe much worse. And so let's
be braced to some extent. And then But the other
(37:42):
thing that is so critically important for us and for
the young people in our lives is to not allow
them to have us normalize this. There is nothing normal
about what is happening right now. Nothing normal.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
That is a great point, But I mean a lot
of these young people don't have anything else to compare
it to. So that's the scariest part, right, like this
is their normal. They may just accept it as such.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
That's right, and that's where we have a collective responsibility
to help them know otherwise. I've just met with a
young group of brilliant young people here in Birmingham this
afternoon and you know, they were talking with me, for example,
about the fact that their main source of information is online.
(38:32):
They're not really read they're not reading legacy media at all.
They're not reading the paper, whether it be online or otherwise.
Most of what they are also receiving is video. But
good for them, and they were between about age eighteen
and twenty two, and they are This was something that
(38:54):
again my optimism. They know that they are being fed
information that is for a large part inaccurate. They know it,
and so what they're asking is where can they go
for accurate information? And that's the charge that each of
(39:14):
us has, right And then it is you know, whether
it be what we're reading, whether it be Associated Press,
New York Times, other what we have. You know, those
of us of an older generation were not let's say
gen Z. That's where we have an added responsibility, as
we always will have to those who are coming up,
(39:34):
to share with them our knowledge not only about fact
but also history, especially when there are full on attacks
to rewrite history and revise history according to their perspective
on what we should be teaching.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Oh, I want to go back to Palatine for one second,
because you said something in the book, and I've been
wanting to ask you just how did you emotionally reconcile
working in an administration that, in your words, didn't fully
express empathy for Palestinians.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
It was very difficult. I mean I so I was
in conversations where, for example, you know that five months
into the war, I gave a speech at the foot
(40:30):
of the Edmund Pettis Bridge on the commemoration of Bloody Sunday,
and I write about this. I gave a speech and
I was the first at the highest level of our
administration to talk about the fact that Palestinians were starving,
(40:50):
and it was not received well within the White House
that I did that I spoke of ceasefire months. This
was a year and a half ago at least, and
I I couldn't not speak about it as much as
(41:11):
I could but I was not president. I would be
in conversations where, for example, about the starvation issued. You know,
early on it became very clear that there was no
running water or clean water, and then people would start
and this was when Israel it was allowing the government
(41:34):
of Israel. Let me say, the government of Israel was
allowing humanitarian aid and I would say, look, so they
would talk about this many tons of flour and I
literally said in one of the meetings, look, I cook.
So let me tell you, you can't do a thing
with flower if you don't have water. So what are
(41:57):
we talking about in terms of what are they actually eating?
To be very specific about it, I asked, like, what
are women doing around their monthly needs?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
What?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
And you know, and usually it was a room full
of men who don't have never experienced monthly needs in
that way.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
I would hope not that would be different.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Well, but you understand my point. So it was. It was.
It was very challenging.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Is that one of the most challenging things when you
know you have all of these people out here who
believe in you and want to support you, and they
don't know what it is you're doing behind the scenes,
like behind the scenes, you're having these fights, behind the scenes,
you're having these you know, discussions, but the people don't.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Know that, right And and that is sadly the nature
of the work that I do and have done. That
not everything I know can I speak, especially if it's
obviously the classified nature. Plus as I write, it is
very important. I believe that in the relationship between the
(43:07):
president and vice president that there be a safe zone
of having conversations. They're not going to be shared. And
and I maintain that that is very important.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
What about when you know the president is dead wrong?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
What about?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
What what about when you know the president is just
dead wrong?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Well, if there is a disagreement, then there has to
be candor in that, and and that's what I engage in.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
You know, Uh, Governor jos Shapirou, you talk about you
talk about him in the book, and you said that
you feel like he might be overly ambitious?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Am I using the right words?
Speaker 3 (43:54):
That's not what I said, That's not your character. But
you might have what was what was well read open
the book?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I think it was. I thought it would overly ambitious?
Oh yes, yes, uh too ambitious?
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Maybe refer to the words I actually use and then
get to your point.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
The point.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
The point is really more and more so about you though,
like you know, that's some of the things that the
criticism they had about you, is that you might be
too ambitious, and you know, the president always had to
watch his back.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
So there is a saying in the White House lore
has it. Whether it's true or not, it's it's It
is repeated over many administrations in the years, which is
that the outgoing chief of staff of the President of
the United States will say to the incoming chief of staff,
(44:56):
to the incoming president, I says, regardless of party rule,
number one watched the vice president. And as I write
in the book, part of the dynamic that I was
aware of coming into the White House as vice President
was I had obviously run against the president and that
(45:20):
there may still be not on his behalf, but others
some hard feelings about that. But here's how I feel
about the subject that you are raising, which is ambition.
I applaud ambition in people, and I think that part
of the challenge that we face is to look at someone,
especially our young people, and say their ambition is a
(45:44):
bad thing, as though it is a fault of character,
instead of a strength of character to suggest that somehow,
if someone has ambition, we've conflated ambition with blind ambition.
Somehow it's bad. I encourage people to have ambition. I
think it is a good thing. I think it's part
(46:05):
of the American spirit to believe in what is possible,
to go for it, to roll up your sleeves. You know,
I have. I have lived my career and tried to
live my career where I don't hear no. I hear
no maybe the tenth time. I like to joke I
eat no for breakfast. I've mentored a lot of people
(46:27):
over the years, including now, and I tell them you don't.
And you know, somebody actually has the sweatshirt with one
of the sayings for my mother on it, which is
you don't ever let anybody tell you who you are.
You tell them who you are. Right. I think that
is a good thing. So there you go.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
And I mean, you should scare people when you walk
in rough.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Do I scare you?
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (46:55):
You know about trying to scare people. I'm not trying
to scare people at all.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Have you spoken to President Biden? Have you read the book?
Speaker 3 (47:06):
I have talked to him, And yeah, I mean he's
most recently, and we should all say a prayer for
his strong and full recovery. He's battling cancer right now
and he is a fighter. He is a fighter.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
So how do you feel about you telling you truth?
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I think he has. I think he's been actually very
supportive of me telling my truth. Joe Biden is a
good man. He is a very good man.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
He really is.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
He really is, and he was a good president and
he was a good president.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Did how did you reconcile protecting President Biden as your
friend but also protecting you know, the country as a leader, meaning.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
That you know when you saw things starting to slip?
You know, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
I don't know what you're talking about, Charlie Well President,
I did not see him start to slip in one way.
That's not what I what I talk about is about that.
Let's again, at that moment where everyone was just piling
on him, I was not about to participate in piling
on number one. Number two. That don't let's not mistake
(48:33):
whether someone has the ability to govern versus the vigor
that one might want in a candidate for election, because
those are two different things. And I never questioned, nor
do I on reflection his capacity to have been president.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
But you did say in the book that you didn't
think his decision to run again should have just been
his and his alone.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
That's a different point.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I did so with that said, how do you reconcile
being his friend but also knowing what's best for the country.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
What's best for the country in the context of an election,
is what you mean. I think that he I said
what I meant, which is on reflection. I think that
there that it was we should have and I and
(49:29):
I take I'm going to speak for myself that I
perhaps should have said something to him about that, suggesting
he reconsider running. And there are a number of reasons
I did not, including that I did believe that to
(49:50):
do that would come off as being very self serving
and therefore not effective. But it was a conversation that
should have and had.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, I thought you said you thought it would be
self serving.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Yes, I'm vice president of the United States at the time.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
But you actually would be looking out for the needs
of the country.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
I'm talking about how it would be interpreted.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Oh got you got you got you got you got
you got you got you.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
And therefore would it have been an effective conversation. I
don't believe that you have a conversation just because you
want to get something off of your chest. You also
have to, I think, be engaged and is it going
to be productive? And that was my point.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Another thing I got from the book, especially early on,
do you feel like you are loyal to a default
at least in this situation.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
I am a loyal person and I don't apologize for that,
but it can be I suppose a weakness, but it's
my nature.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I got a couple of audience questions. Okay, Cherrelle Garyl.
She says, the Voting Rights Act has long symbolized.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
Pronounce your name right, Chiel, There you are Hi.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
It's Cherrelle Cherrell, Charrell Gal.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
The Voting Rights Act has long symbolized the promise of
equal access to democracy. As those protections are being rolled back,
how do we ensure that our generation doesn't just defend
that promise, which scrimtens it.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
So I think everyone saw, and if not, I'd invite
everyone over the weekend if you have some time to
take a look at those arguments before the Supreme Court
this week. They're trying to wholesale get rid of the
voting Rights Act. And I have to say to you,
as a young leader, that part of your legacy being
(51:48):
here in Birmingham is that it is young leaders who
imagined and dreamed that you would be here right now
that are the from this region and from this place
that are the reason that we got the Voting Rights
Act in the first place. And it is part of
(52:10):
your legacy to fight to maintain as best as we
can those protections. But right now we are witnessing a
reversal of those hard fought rights that the American people
should have to have access to the polls as a
way to express their voice through their vote about the
(52:33):
future of their country and their government. The arguments that
happened in the United States Supreme Court this week, I've
just started to review them. I must try and spend
some time this weekend reading it in whole. But it's
outrageous and it's basically around a case out of Louisiana,
(52:53):
where I believe there are six congressional seats in Louisiana,
and I believe that tho they decided in Louisiana that
they only had one that had a black representative to Congress,
and they would expand it to two. And now there
are a bunch of plainists saying no, that the Voting
(53:13):
Rights Acts Section two should not apply and get rid
of that which will affect it is estimated of I'm
going to get the number approximately right, but just under
about ten democratic seats will be wiped out. Where we
think the ruling is headed actually goes to that place.
And that's where it's going to be about you and
(53:38):
all of us as leaders, regardless of our age, to
stand up in particular around what we do around local
elections congressional elections, to fight for these protections because they
are very much under attack right now. And it's a
cry and shame. It's a crime and shame when again
to your point, Charlemagne, they're so blatantly apologetically trying to
(54:02):
roll back the advances we've made in civil rights. And
again this suggestion that civil rights are just for some,
they're for all of us. Everybody benefits when each other's
civil rights are protected. Everyone benefits. And that's part of
the scapegoating and gas lighting that's happening right now. So
(54:26):
we're counting on you, and I know you. I've just
put a heavy burden on you. Welcome to the club.
And I'm glad you're here. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
You mentioned a Supreme couote. Why do we still act
like they're legitimate institution.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Because we want them to be, because we want them
to be. But you're right, I mean, this is about
back to the point about this has been decades in
the making. We are where we are because of an
agenda that has been in about longstanding jerry mandering, taking
(55:04):
over state houses, manipulating who receives judicial appointments. This is
all we are seeing, like I said, the implementation of
a plan that has been a long time in the making,
(55:24):
and we have to see where it is heading to
know where we have to head. And that includes, for example,
I think part of the mistake, at least in hindsight,
is we drop the ball on what was happening at
a local and state level. And that's part of the
(55:48):
price we're paying. And that relates to everything from who
you elect as your local sheriff to mayor, to governor,
to your state house representative and what we all need
to do and I think we have allowed and it's
all of us is I'm not pointing a finger at
(56:09):
anyone in particular, but the future of our democracy is
not only going to be determined by who sits in
the White House, it is all of these positions, and
therefore we do have power at a local level. We
do have school board elections for goodness sakes so important
(56:29):
when we think about the future of where we're putting
resources in the education of our children, and are we
actually teaching them about the history of the Voting Rights Act,
and are we teaching them about the history of who
we are not to mention civics around three co equal
branches of government to your point, and the need for
the safeguards and the backstops.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
We'll go back to all these questions because we running
out of time.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
But if Democrats knew what Republicans were planning all of
these is where was the defense? If you knew what
their offense was going to be, where was the defense.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
I think that we have to see what happened and
know what we need to do in the future. I
think you're right. I mean, one could argue, how could
this just how could this happen? Yes, I think that's
a fair question. I think that's a fair question.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Because y'all talking about Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
What of January first, coming, we get A twenty twenty six,
and then the Project twenty twenty seven and the Project
twenty twenty eight, they might have this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (57:26):
You are absolutely correct, and that's why the moment, the
present moment, requires us to be active and see what's
right in front of us and deal with that with
an I to work where we need to go. For example,
part of what I have been thinking a lot about
in terms of where we are now in the future,
(57:46):
I think a lot about gen Z and I'll tell
you why. First of all, they are gen Z as
a population of people demographically are larger in number than Boomers,
So boomers handle that there are more of them. They
(58:10):
are between about age thirteen and twenty seven twenty eight.
And then think about them as a generation they've only
known the climate crisis, incredibly important phases of their education
because of the pandemic, we're taken from them around education, socialization.
(58:32):
If you think about the pandemic in terms of the
statistics which I remain, I believe it's still true. One
in four Black Americans lost a family member to COVID
and what that meant in terms of trauma experienced in
a family. You look at it in terms of the
fact that it is estimated gen Z when they graduate,
(58:54):
be it high school or college, will probably have up
to ten to twelve jobs in their lifetime. Previous generations
we could expect when we came out of high school,
came out of college, we'd have one job and that's
where we would retire. Okay, So many of our students,
if they're in college, for example, they're not sure if
(59:15):
what they're studying now by the day they graduate, be
that next year or in three or four years, will
actually lead to an employable job and work. And so
I say all that to say that they are They're
having a very specific experience. They are also, as I
(59:38):
have come to know them and have members of that
generation in my family, incredibly impatient. They are not sitting
around waiting for us to figure it out, and they
have a stake in what's happening right now. Part of
what I think about the future of the Democratic Party
(59:58):
as it relates to gen Z, I actually am here
to say I believe that part of what we need
to do to fix things is lower the voting age
to sixteen. I think we should sit with that for
a minute. I see some people need to I think
we should lower the national voting age to sixteen, because
(01:00:24):
if we are talking with our young people about what
is important, they will tell us everything that is about
tomorrow in the next five and ten and twenty years,
They'll lay it all out for us. They are not
invested in the way things have been. They are not
benefiting from tradition or status quo as it has existed
(01:00:44):
for decades. They're right now, present and very clear eyed
about how we need to address the future. And if
we give them the power to make decisions about who
isn't elected office and allow them to help inform the priorities,
I think our future is brighter. Wow, I think our
(01:01:07):
future is brighter.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I had another audience question. Her name is Lindsey Hall.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
She's seventeen, but I feel like you already answered it
because her question was, I have always been afraid of
speaking up first. So what advice would you give young
women like myself who want to lead but feel afraid
of being.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Labeled too ambitious?
Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Where are you?
Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Where you at? Lindsay where?
Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Wait?
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Let's see where it's where? Wait? Turnle you up there?
Oh there you are?
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Oh she all the way up there?
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Wow? Right there?
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
What's up, Lindsey.
Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Okay, first of all, can we all applaud Lindsay please
for being here. So I think first thing first, I
want you to hear and remember what you just heard
and hold on to it, which is is you may
be the first to do many things. You may be
(01:02:05):
alone in many rooms where you're the only one like you,
and everybody else around the table is different than you
in terms of their life experience or how they look.
And I want you to never feel alone and always
know and hear in your heart and soul the applause
you just heard. To know that there are a whole
lot of people that are encouraging your ambition and encouraging
(01:02:27):
you to have the energy and the excitement about doing
things that are about making this world better. See. So,
don't ever allow yourself to be limited in terms of
(01:02:49):
what you think you are capable of based on other
people's limited ability to see what's possible. Don't let their
limitations be yours. Don't ever let their life limitations be yours. Okay,
like you're over. I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Listen, this has been a great conversation. We're over time,
but I want to make sure we close by continuing
to talk about the fight ahead, right, Like like during
the campaign in your speech you're saying, when we fight,
we win, and in your Howard speech you acknowledge that
sometimes the.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Fight takes a while.
Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
What did that fight look like? Now? What weapons should
we be using?
Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
We should be using the weapon the power of our voice,
of our vote, of our pocketbook. Are we should be
using the strength I think of it as strength, right,
are the strength of our ability to create community? You know,
(01:03:50):
so many people right now, there's so much fear, so
much fear, and so many people are feeling attacked and
are being attacked. Literally, Yes, people are on edge, Charlemagne,
and I think one of the counteractions to that is
(01:04:11):
us doing everything we can to create and reinforce community.
Like I'd ask you, if you don't know the person
sitting next to you, just look at them and say
how you doing? You know, and just we're in church,
(01:04:33):
but right, just let's yeah, you know, what we can
be doing is to remind each other we're not alone.
We are all in this together, and that's our power
and that's our weapon among these people that are trying
(01:04:53):
to divide our country and turn American against each other
because part of what I'd add, Charlemagne, I think part
of what we have to fight against right now is
there is an incredible amount of miss and distrust in
our world right now, and there's an incredible amount of
distrust between the American people of each other. And that
(01:05:16):
distrust is not only about what people are worried about
and you know, cannot lock my front door, but a
concern about whether can I trust that you are not
a threat to my very existence. That's part of what's
happening in our country right now. And the great anecdote
(01:05:38):
encounter action to that, I believe, is to keep working
in community with a sense of the collective. And so
that's that's our power, and that's the power that we
have that we should use every day.
Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah, make some noise for offer, every vice president. I
like what that young lady calls you. She called you
big sister, General.
Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
I like that. Listen, so listen Mason North again for
coming the iris.
Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Shaw