Check Out "All the Smoke" Podcast

This episode on All the Smoke Podcast Charlamagne joins in on the discussion and speak about Nipsey's legacy, his top 7 artists, and looking up to Jay-Z. He also opens up about his most memorable interviews and social justice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Piece to the planet. I go by the name of
Charlemagne the God. Now maybe you know, maybe you don't,
but I have partnered with iHeartRadio to launch a brand
new network called The Black Effect. All right, podcast network,
the place where black coaches celebrated in black voices are heard.
One of the shows that you know, I love, I
was a fan of before we even partnered with each
other is My Man. Matt Barns and Stephen Jackson, collectively

(00:22):
known is All a Smoke. Okay, All the Smokers, a
podcast that talks about basketball, but really they just talk
about life. Man. And you know, Matt Barns and Stephen Jackson,
they don't bite their tongue for nobody. Some people call
them out spoken, some people call them controversial. I just
call them two real black men, all right, two real
men of color. I write, two real individuals period. All Right,
Matt Barns and Stephen Jackson. I've been on the show

(00:45):
and that felt surreal for me because I'm such a
fan of the show man. But just to be able
to say those are my partners, and you know they
rocket with the Black Effect, that means more than you
would ever know. Man. So in the second you'll get
to hear an episode I appeared on for the show,
and if you like it, I hope you'll go on
All the Smoke in your podcast listening app and subscribe
so you never missed an episode. Welcome back, season two,

(01:12):
All the Smoke from our beautiful New York location. Excited
about today's guest, someone I really look up to in
this space, one of the strongest black voices to me
in the country, Charlotte Magne Matt, Thank you, bro, Thank
you for having me. Man. You know, I love All
the Smoke. I love when I get this opportunity to
actually be on shows that I actually listen. Yeah, we'll

(01:39):
get into how we're really working together later, but let's
just let's get into it. Man. The climate of America
is on the brink of changing. I think it's it's
finally reared. It's naked head and people are starting to
realize that there's some real issues here. What did you
just thought of where we're at as a society right now?
I think weever we're at, it's no going back. I'm

(01:59):
one of them who have first voted in O eight
when President Obama, you know, in the White House, and
I'm beyonest. I only voted for him because he was black.
It was Blacknie was cool, he had the culture, you know.
But I think right now a lot of us are
more politically sophisticated, and we understand that you have to
have the right people in the office to make certain
things happen, you know. And I think those rose colored
glasses that we all wore when Barack was in the

(02:21):
White House, that's over. Like, I don't care if it's
Joe Biden's into the Harris, whoever's in there. We're not
just gonna be in love with them because they're in there,
you know what I mean. That's not where the change
comes to change comes is continuing to push once they
get in the White House. So I think wherever we're
at in this country, there's no going back because both
sides have been exposed right like we've been to it's
not all sweet and not The other side definitely knows

(02:42):
it's not all sweet. But then we also know that
there's a whole other side it talking about what are
you all this shit? You're talking about? What they're talking about.
That's what trips me out is we've been able to
wake some people up and heighten their senses and step
outside of themselves and be vulnerable to trying to understand
the pain that the black community goes through. But there's
a lot of people that feel like we're crazy for

(03:04):
even addressing this and what are we talking about it?
And it's all bullshit? Why why would they want to
relinquish that kind of power? Right? You know what I'm saying.
They got power, they got privileged, Why would they want
to relinquish it. We're definitely gonna have to fight for that, right.
I kind of honestly like we're gonna be in this
spot until Indian and Black bood have a fingerprint on
the constitution of how this country's actually ran, because the

(03:26):
president only can do so much, right, you know what
I'm saying. And then again, I don't believe in voting
for the lesser evil evil. It's evil, you know what
I'm saying. And if we understand that the system is
built for us to be in this position, is still
fighting to this day that we have to have us
say so how it's ran, and that's really the only
way we're gonna stop this shit, you know what I'm saying.
Because a lot of times, like I said, we vote

(03:46):
for people that we don't even that happy histories of
hating us. Absolutely, you know what I'm saying, So what
kind of what kind of situation is that? You know,
I'm so we vote for somebody who we know hate us.
They don't make no sense the way I kind of
look at that situation though, And since well, since we're
here now, I think as the black community, we ask
people to understand and try to grow if you were

(04:07):
a certain way. So at the first thing everyone points
out is Biden's tracker, And by no mean am I
justifying anything. That's just kind of just the way I
kind of look at it. We look at his track record,
and he could definitely say he was against the black community. Yeah,
eighty six eighty six mandatory minimum senting saying eighty eight
crack laws and you got more time for crackton Code
ninety four crime bill like yeah, so you can definitely.

(04:29):
So for him to say anything other to me, I
just you're right, I made a mistake. That's what I
want to hear. That's it. And then to me, But
like I said, so, the way I'm looking at his tracker,
he's quick, and look at your tracker getting ship. It's
gonna be honest with you. But to me, it's just like,
can he possibly change? Can he possibly see through a
different lens? Did being with brought for that amount of

(04:49):
time rub off on him? So we're looking at someone
who can possibly have changed where he came from. On
the other hand, we know who this other, who the
current president is, what he's about, what is makeup is,
who is base is. So to me, it's just like
people say the lesser two evils, and I would agree
to an extent. But I'm looking at someone who can
possibly have changed, and if he's in office, he's gonna
have to prove that he changed, because we realize he

(05:11):
realized he could be gone after one tournament if he's
able to make it. Or are we picking someone who
we know who he is? Yeah, I don't even look
at Joe Biden as a change agent. I look at
him as a pathway to change. And I honestly feel
like keeping the seat one old white male leadership that
ain't the pathway to change. The more old white male
leadership is in his position, know what I mean? From
the inception of how this country was put together, it

(05:33):
was built for this old white male patriarchy. And everybody
else was considered secondary fourth. So I don't look at
either one of them as change agents. I definitely don't
look at Biden as a change as definitely don't look
at Trumps the change ad. But I think Biden is
a pathway to change, right, you know what I mean?
And it like you say talking about forgiving, let me
go back to that, because you know how they do us.

(05:55):
We could be on TV, that's right, all the stuff
we're doing right now, that's right. We got a great show,
all the stuff I'm doing in the community. As soon
as I get on seeing then the person they do
is talk about the brawl. That's right, you know what
I'm saying. But they want to, but they want to
don't work like that. That's that's why I personally don't
give a fuck about criticizing and Joe Biden. Like you

(06:15):
shouldn't criticize Joe Biden. You're gonna ruin his chances after
all that? Like why can't I not critique him, call
out his flaws, call out his record, and still vote
for him? Right? Like what kind of world do we
live in? One posted this shy Just be quiet, That's
what that's literally, he's like, you're telling people to shut
up and vote the way people tell athletes to shut
up and dream. Like. I'm not gonna shut up and vote.
I'm a vote based off my interest and I'm gonna

(06:36):
call out the things I don't like. And if you
put some things on the table that I do, like, hey,
I rock with that. And you're saying, forget this person.
But you got a cousin that took two dollars from you,
that you that you grew up with your whole life
between forgating me one time. Ain't forgating me still two
dollars everything a little bit to the social justice movement,
you know. I kind of feel like when Kobe passed,

(06:59):
it was it's been a domino effective negative things to
happen since then. We before life ain't been the same, right,
I ain't gone. I feel like there was a bitching
the matrix after that. She had just been going like Dawn.
It's a great point, you know. So we get to
the pandemic, and then we get to the George Floyd situation, which,

(07:22):
you know, my man right here was was front and
the biggest or if not the biggest so testing in
the history of our country. What was your take from
from all that. When that George Floyd video hit, man,
I remember exactly why I was at because I was
trying to avoid it, and the reason I was trying
to avoid it because I think, sometimes, man, we passed,
We just passed trauma amongst each other. You know, you

(07:43):
be on social media and it's another video of the
video of this person, the video of that person. It's
just like, damn, who were trying to prove we know
what's going to get in our country, Like, yeah, the
other side need to see that. And I remember my
homegirl called me. It was actually it was difficly had
she called me and we was on the phone and
she was telling me about it and she was crying,
and I'm like, man, I'm trying to avoid it. And
as I'm watching CNN, the video pops up, so I

(08:05):
was forced to look at it. And I think that
the reason that video was so impactful is because of
that exact reason. A lot of us that know what's
going on, we can avoid it. A lot of white
people can definitely avoid it because that ain't even that
world at all. But when we were forced to be
still because of that coronavirus, and we sitting at home
and we got to watch that eight minutes and forty
six seconds. Man, when I saw that, my immediate thought

(08:28):
was I felt defeated. And the reason I felt defeated
because I'm like, man, if this this black man can
be out in broad daylight, this cops kneeling on his neck.
I'm watching all the other brothers and sisters around just
feeling hopeless, you know what I mean, not knowing what
to do in that moment. I know they want to help,
I know they want to react, but they don't want
to end up there. It's just like I felt defeated.
I'm like, what do what? What do we do? And

(08:48):
then when I saw everybody start tannh it up and
burnish it down, I'm like, what's the what other reaction
did you expect from people? Like? It's only but so
much yea, a community of people can take. Especially in
the city wars been going on, a lot of people
didn't even know that. Well, I say, when the George
Floyd situational hit. Unfortunately, when we've, like you said, we've
become so immune to it. We see police brutality, it's

(09:10):
it's a shot and kill. We saw for nearly nine minutes,
a man suffer and vague and plead and called for
his dead mom. You know what I mean, Like, I
think that having to see, like you said, having to
see that because the world was still, is the reason
that the light came on. And some people said. But
then at the same time, instantly he did this and
his his past as this, and he he was he

(09:32):
was resisting, and he was doing all this and he
you know, he had underlying, Like I mean, even the
corner came out and gave you know, a bullshit, you know,
an autopsy results. So it's crazy that even when we
when it's on your face in front of your children,
to your grandmother and everyone can see it, you still
try to deny shit. Yeah, it was the lack of empathy.
For me, it was just the lack of empathy of

(09:53):
watching that that that that devil have his knee on
on the brother's neck. And no, you mean to tell
me not one other officers had the empathy to be like, yo, seconds,
god damn, not one until you've seen the other interview,
I mean, the other view where they're going outside of
quite all of them. It's like, yo, what faith are
we supposed to have? Is black people in this system,

(10:16):
like seriously, like that, I don't can't remember the young
lady neighbor when she said they should be lucky. Black
people just want equality and not revenge. That is a
very powerful statement to meet because it's the truth, Like
we should all just be tearing this shit up based
off the history that we based off what we've gone
through in this country. And then the first thing they
want to point out is the fact that things are
getting torn up, but they never want to talk about, like, well,

(10:37):
why is it getting torn up? Why are they doing
They're just there were just wild animals. That's the way
they want to pay us an act. But let's address
why they're frustrated, why they're Why did Kentucky board up
the downtown before they gave the result of the cops
because it wasn't because they knew. Why did they tell
the cops not to go on vacation and stay like
because they knew they weren't going to serve justice, Like,

(11:00):
let's look at the root issue of why this other
shit is happening. I loved it too though, because it
activated so many people in our community, like of all colors. Man,
when I saw Stephen and Trey and Tamika at that
press conference. Man, I'm just like, wow, you know, and
I know that it was people telling you to stand down.
They're like, oh, Steven, you're good. You got pild of
dollars what you care for? But what was that like? Though?

(11:22):
But they said they I mean, you know, I didn't
pay no attention to it, you know how I am.
You know, I've always been my brother's keeople, you know
what I mean. And like I said, that's the closest
person I can said of my twin ever in my life.
You know, even though he wasn't real brothers, but I
did with him what I do for any one of
my brothers. You know what I'm saying. If it costs
me to go stand up and use my voice and
my status to speak up for justice place for anybody,

(11:43):
you know, I was gonna do it, head up chests.
But what was it like for you? You've been a
leader in locker rooms and on the floor, But what
to like being a leader or a culture for a
movement for something that was the country has never seen,
the world has never seen. I just leave with my heart, bro,
just try to do what I know is right. You
know what I'm saying, I treat everybody the same. I
don't have a history of racism. I don't have a

(12:05):
history of hate towards nobody. So I walk in high
I talk it. You know what I mean. I wear
my emotions on my sleeve and what you see is
what you get with me. But at the same time,
I know I don't have all the answers. You know
what I'm saying. I know, just like we talked about,
I might not see what I'm fighting for, you know
what I'm saying, But as long as I have, I
know I had a hand in it. You know what
I'm saying. I know I'm living up my death is

(12:26):
gonna be worthy. How do you feel even though you
are doing what's right, you're met with so much pushback, resistance,
death threats, Like how does that? Because I'm sure you've
probably faced it. Europe very vocal in space, especially on
social media. I get them so much. It's just like, okay,
you want to see me that I can literally tweet

(12:47):
out thank you God for blessing me with another day
of life, and somebody be like I was praying you
die literally every day, right. But what they don't know
is when they do stuff like that, you're just showing
how much you die inside, be showing how your life is.
And I'm powerful, we are, And then that they see,
like Tournament said, why would they ever want to give

(13:07):
that away? Because they see us. They've done everything they
possibly can to keep a whole community, a whole set
of people down. We continue to climb the ladder. But
that's gonna be divine though. I always say that, like
when I'll be speaking about black privilege, right and no
people hear me say that. It's like, oh, I don't
know this thing as black privilege, but I'm not talking
about something systemic. I'm talking about something spiritual. Yeah, you
know what I'm saying. I really do feel like it's

(13:28):
a privilege and I honored to be in this black skin.
And I feel like where they're power line systemically, all
power lies spiritually. And I feel like that's why things
are shifting that because for I'm not gonna say for
the first time, but for the first time in probably
a long time, it's a collected mindset of black people
saying no, something has to change, and they're putting energy

(13:49):
towards that and speaking it into the universe and it's
just like things are literally shifting around us systemically. Now
we're getting the chance to really get like some some
systemic change happening. So I think it's a beautiful thing.
At the end of the day when this year is old,
but we're gonna look back and be like that was
the that was the year. That was the cat change.
You know, I faced a lot of kickback personally because
I'm biracial. You know, my mom is Italian, my dad

(14:11):
is black, and people are like, well, how are you
so this isn't that Because I've seen the good and
bad on both sides. I've got it. I was growing up.
I was never white enough, I was never black enough.
So I've seen the good side and bad side from
both sides. But there was an incident in high school
that KKK came in nearly damn near burned my high
school down. And that's when I realized, like, no matter
how proud I am to be a biracial like, I'm
looked at as a black man. I never knew he was.

(14:39):
If you mean his daddy, you were like, yeah, you nigga,
you meet his daddy, bros. Daddy the change two fifteen
in the morning that's how purple he is. Yeah, people
don't understand, like, what are you talking about your half white?
I'm just say you're right, and I'm very proud to
be that. But in this world you're not as a
biracial person, you don't get a choice. They make it
for you. Like Obama's biracial, But what is he our

(15:00):
first black president? You know what I mean? So if
you could have drop a drop of black in you,
that's what you are. And people have a hard time
even from the black side. You know you ain't black,
all right, you got me, you know what I mean.
So it's just like it's there's a lot of inter
battles amongst the bigger battles that need to kind of
decease and understand men, if we come together as black
and brown and then all of our other allies throughout

(15:21):
the rainbow of colors, we can really make a change.
But that's the only way we're gonna do it. It's
not just going to be basketball in the bubble. It's
not just going to be celebrities. It's gonna take all
of us together to change something we didn't create in
the first place. Do you feel like a sense of
privilege me, yeah, never never never have people. Well, you're rich,

(15:45):
but people are like you, like you said earlier, like Jack,
stand down, you're rich like people. That's the first you
got money. You don't feel like when we came from
this this movie. We came from foodstances, we came from
sharing bedrooms, we came from moving. I came from drugs
and drug abuse and violence and you know all that
kind of ship. I mean privilege from the white side
though the police because I never said I wouldn't say privilege.

(16:06):
I get lucky because I played basketball sometimes, so they'll
recognize that side. But as far as just nah, because
regular every day life, A police always can't tell that
you right, half white. He don't don't care, don't give
a fuck if you telling them that. He probably like,
we got somebody here on drugs right now? Can you
sit more backup? Police? What do you feel like the
NBA's role has been in the bubble and did you

(16:30):
kind of like the idea of them going back or
did you think they shouldn't. I like the idea And
tell Stephen made me think twice about it when you
say I was all for it. I know Stephen saying
man they don't need to come back. We need to
you know, this is a chance to get some real change.
And I was like, damn. So that was a whole
other conversation that started. Should they go back, they not

(16:50):
go back, and um, I felt like they should have
went back because I knew eventually the news cameras were
gonna go away from the protest right, and being I
knew the news cameras were gonna go away, we needed
those brothers on that stage to do it exactly what
I mean, to keep that conversation going. They did, Lebron did,
and I heard you said. I think it was the

(17:10):
first episode of all this smoke where you was talking
about how the little known players they didn't have a voice.
We wouldn't heard, we wouldn't hurdle exactly. But now when
they speak at that bubbles the NBA logo, And that
was my only pushing in. Jack and I, you know,
agreed to disagree, and most saw points on most sides
because we were on opposite spectrums. Like I thought, just
what you said, like, their voice is much stronger, it's

(17:32):
gonna resonate, it's gonna go around the world. When they
have the NBA logo, behind it. Individually, We're gonna hear Lebron,
We're gonna hear CP. But do we hear docs plea?
Do we hear George Hills plea? Do we hear Fred
van Pleep? Like we don't hear these other Please? If
we're not together in that bubble, what do you feel
like now that we're coming to an end to keep
the momentum going that the NBA and particularly can do

(17:55):
to keep this message going. I don't, to be honest
with you, I'm not sure outside of like real donations
into the black community. Like I saw the number that
they put up. I think it was like three that
ain't ship for the NBA then thirty owners, Like that's
my thing is I just I think the owners should

(18:16):
step up because, to be honest with you, a lot
of these owners are on the exact opposite side of
where their players stand, the exact opposite side. And when
you're an owner, you're a billionaire. You have these connections
to be able to start conversations, open up dialogues in
whatever political avenue you're in, you know what I mean.
So I just think it's more of because a lot
of them didn't want to talk there are some that
went out of their way to talk. There's a lot

(18:37):
of coaches that went out of their way to talk,
but a lot of them sat on there, kept their
mouth shutting, sat on their hands, you know what I mean.
So to me, it's more about align with your players.
Understand what your players are talking about, even if you
may not completely agree, but just have this conversation. And
we need the owners and players to come more together.
And you hit on the head. Three hundred million sounds
like a lot to the average people, but over ten
years and well, if you think about these owners are

(18:59):
playing each you know, they're two star players over three
hundred million, you know what I mean. So it's not
for thirty people to come up. It's that wasn't I
think it's a great start, but I think it's not enough,
and we have to continue to keep pressure on them
because they're you know, their arenas are in these predominantly
poor cities, and you know, people have to budget a
whole month's salary to go to a game and take
a family and to get food and to buy you know,

(19:21):
merchandise and that kind of stuff. So like I like
Robert Smith's two percent planning where he wanted all of
these top corporations to put two percent of their net
income into black owned banks because then the black owned
banks could take care of basically of the community people want.
They get loans and house loans, whatever it is. That
that's something that NBA should commit to because a lot
of these problems that we have in these communities can

(19:43):
be fixed by people with money. Film gotta wait on government,
so they should be talking. And I also think the
NBA needs something kind of like the NFL has with
the Inspire Change thing, you know what I mean, Like, uh,
the thing Rock Nation them is heading like they need
somebody to dictate where that money goes to the brothers
that's already on the ground doing things. And it's not

(20:03):
necessarily a big name some of these big name corporations
just sucking money away and it's not we don't have nope,
but get in touch. You should have it, like a
city leader in every city that you trust, or some
kind of liaison that tells you, like, you know, that
group of there's really doing something for that that group
of there's this, So let's allocate let's through them three million,
Let's throw them seven you know what I mean To
really know where the money is because until you're walking,

(20:24):
because every neighborhood is different. Houston's problems, in Atlanta's problems
are different than the problems in sacrament in Oakland, you
know what I mean. So you have to be in
tune with who's in these cities to see which programs
best fit and best work in these cities. But there
needs to be transparency on where this money is definitely going.
I thought the NBA did a great job of keeping
the players safe first and foremost, with being in the

(20:47):
bubble and being tested and doing a great job at that.
And then you see this administration reckless, maskless, calling it
a hoax, making fun of whatever, and now the president
has it like what kind of irony? I don't I
don't think that's irony. I think he earned it. I
think I think he earned it, and he got exactly

(21:10):
what he deserved. Like if you're gonna throw your middle
finger to something and act like it doesn't exist, that's
usually the thing that points you right in your face.
And that's what happened with COVID. And what did he
say when he got the number of how many people?
Does it is? What it is? Is? What it is,
so you can'tnot feel bad for people feeling like that
towards him. No, I'm not. I'm the type of person
I don't wish death on nobody. I don't wish death

(21:30):
on him at all. But I don't even believe he
really got the ship. He would have to die in
order to be believe that he got it. I'm being
honest with you. Because it's October. We got that whole
October surprise thing going on, and you saw someone tweeted
maybe two weeks ago, this is gonna be I posted
it the other day. Since this is gonna be Trump's
October surprises, He's gonna be sick, and he's gonna dominate
the headlines for two weeks on how hard he's working

(21:51):
with these fake pictures of him working and scribbling his
name on it. Polutely like. The gimmicks are incredible. And
it might be a cash out plan, right if he
know that he leaving in in November, he know he
getting voted out, he might have an investment into the
pharmaceutical company, and he's out there telling people he's taking
these experimental cocktails. I saw the stock shoot up for
UM someone the r leach. It's someone I can't remember

(22:15):
the name of the pharmaceutical company, but it's shot up
two percent after he told everybody he took this experimental cocktail,
and they from Queen's He from queens, the people, the
founders of the company. I don't know. That's just how
I be thinking. He's always had a mean hustle to me,
before this presidency and before he kind of showed his
head or whatever hand he's had to play to get
to where he's at. He's always had a mean He

(22:36):
hasn't always won, but he's always been a mean, hustling
business happy trying to benefit. He got a motive in
everything he's doing. Bro. I mean, it's what role would
you like to see the black community play, um, not
only amongst us coming together, but on the federal level
and the state level of power. We need more black

(22:57):
people wanting to be a part of that system. You
know what I'm saying. Because even though I think the
whole system needed to be overhauled, everything, I think they
need to start over. We need to write a whole
new constitution, a whole new Bill of rights, everything, because
we were not at that table when those things were
initially written. But until we can do that. We got
to have people that are in these positions of power,

(23:17):
and we have to empower them in order to be
able to give them the strength they need to stand
up to that system. Because what happens is a lot
of us getting those positions and we just go along
to get along. You know what I'm saying, We're just
trying to rock the boat too much. It's just like, so,
what's what's the point of you being there? We don't
need black faces, you know, in those spaces just because
I want you in there because you care about our interest.
So I would encourage. Like when I see Scarface running

(23:39):
for political officers in Houston, I like that. Yeah, I
want to do something like that. Yeah, I know you
want to run from man. I want to see Killer
Mike getting the polost. I want to see people that
I know have our interests at heart get involved. Now,
a lot of us might be scared because we know
the background checks is crazy, but who cares. You know
what I'm saying sounds crazy too, absolutely, So I just

(24:01):
want to see more of us in those positions of power,
and I want them to know that we got their
back and we're empowering them to really show up as
they full self. That's really the biggest thing. Right, You're right,
because that's been our biggest problem. We're scared to get
behind our brother and even though we know any going
in direction, we're scared to get behind it because we
want to lead instead of just following him and get

(24:22):
a team player. That's our biggest problem. I always say,
you can get you can get way more done when
you stop worrying about who get the credit for it, right,
I mean that's what That's a doc rivers thing. Be
a star in your role. I mean everyone has a
role to play. We can all we all have a
role to playing together. You know who the leaders are
like and I see to me, Tomka Mallory is my leader. Yeah,
if you have to, you have to call yourself the leader.
You're probably not the bride, not the leading one. That's

(24:42):
like if you have to give yourself a nickname, my nigga,
that's not really your nickname. You know your name. I'm right,
someone else because you're so doping. What you're doing is
how you're supposed to be a leader or how you
get these nicknames. So anyway, so how do we get
to this point? You're upbringing your parents Jehovah Witness. You're
dad was from from Jehovah to practicing Islam. Um, what

(25:04):
was that like growing up in a situation like that.
I mean, you know, when you're a kid, you don't
really have no say it no matter. You know. My
grandmother's Baptist mom and Jehovah Witness. My mom said get up,
and there's time to go to the Kingdom. All this
time to go to the Kingdom Hall. When my dad
gets this fellowship from the Kingdom Hall, he gets into
Islam and he hands me the autobiography of Malcolm X.
I read the Autobiography of Malcolm X when he hands
Messed to the Black Man by Alijah Muhammad. I Messed

(25:26):
to the Black Man by Ali Muhammad. When he tells
me to sit down and you're gonna watch these speeches
from Donovan and flu Back Grun. I sai down and
I watched those speeches. It's really just about what sticks
with you as you get older than what I realized
is a little bit, a little bit of all of it.
The stuff that jehoa Witness has taught, it's stuck with me.
You know, it's stuff for the holidays, my wife and
kids love the holiday, so we definitely do Christmas. But

(25:47):
being a Muslim Islam, like all of that stuff sticks.
I don't really consider myself anything. But there's a little
bit of everything, a little bit of all of them.
If you got to re learn yourself, you gotta reteach
yourself too. A lot of stuff that I was tart
as a kid, I don't believe now because as a
as a as a man adult, I understand stuff differently.
You know. It's a lot of stuff was told in
a point of view, but it's a lot of stuff

(26:07):
is told you as a kid to really to put
a band aid over some shit and not really give
you the full understanding. But as you come adult that
some of those things you don't believe you understand now.
I heard you say I don't even know what show
was if we're just talking off air. Blat the weed
in my heart that you've learned more in this this
last six eight months than you remember learning your whole life. Yeah,

(26:29):
like educated yourself in and made the effort because I
want to know what I'm talking about. You know, I
ain't never talked to you about going back to school
and get my history degree. You know what. I'm in
the process of doing that because it sparked when when
Brod died. It sparks something God put me in a
position out at the naxt for like I always say,
but it sparks something maybe that was supposed to happen.
And my heart is in the right place. So everything

(26:49):
that I'm trying to do, I want to know what
I'm talking about, being educated about what I'm saying. I
feel the same way. I just know that I'm never
gonna be as smart as some people like you hit
Michael Leric Dyson talk Oh yeah, no killing mic talk like,
hey man, they just got it. I just I just
wanted words. Yeah. To me, my thing is just knowing
what I'm talking about. I can't be you know what
I mean. Some people are blessed to be educated and
be able to just spit that like some of these

(27:11):
routes like jay Z is just very intelligent. They could
just put it out there. I just want to have
a proper understanding of things right. And even when we
go back talking about religion, I remember when I started
doing personal Bible study with one of the Brothers of
the Kingdom. While he would come to my mom has
to do personal study with me, and as I started
to read the Bible for myself, a lot of it
just didn't make sense. Like I said, Adam was first man,
even the first woman. They had Kane, they had Able,

(27:33):
Kane kills Able and goes off and finds a wife.
There's only four people on the planet. But you know
what I mean, And it's just like I remember, I
remember reading Deuteronomy fourteen eight, and I think Deuteronomy fourteen
they said you should not touch the flesh of a
dead pig, nonetheless eat it. I remember asking the brother
about that, because from the South, we love polk. He's like, oh,
if you prey over the food, you know, it's cool,

(27:54):
it's good. I'm like, but Bible also said don't have
sex before marriage, So if I prey over the pussy before,
he couldn't explain that. He did the park though I
never understood. It's really both. But as a team, you

(28:15):
got in your fair share of trouble selling drugs, witness
to shooting, got arrested, had to go to jail, and
you sat down for forty one days. Charlemagne had that pack. Yeah,
I mean, you know what it was. I was in
high school getting in so much trouble, right, and like
my dad was my dad. My dad is a street dude,
Like he comes from that. Like you know, my dad
had his bouts with alcohol and cocaine, but he also

(28:38):
was a guy that was good with his hands. So
he had his construction business as well, you know what
I mean. So he had kind of like that balance.
But he knew that the lifestyle I was living. He
would always say, you gonna end up in jail, dead
or broke, sitting under the tree. That was his thing
to me. And so when I started getting in so
much trouble in school, I got kicked out of two
high schools, Like I kicked out of Berkeley High School.
And month what kind of trouble was it? Though? Like disruption, man,

(29:00):
I mean you're in class. Yeah, you're cutting up in class, class,
clowns fighting, just doing dumb shit, this dumb kid shit.
And so then they transfer me to Scraffild because that's
what my mom went to school. And it's just like
that was around sixteen seventeen. And then you start dabbling
into other things. You know, you see your boys selling weeds,
you see your boys selling a little dope, and you're like,

(29:21):
let me get into that, you know, and then I'm
just a guy who hung around those guys for a
while before I got involved. But the first time I
went to jail, one of my homeboys shot at somebody,
and you know that whole no snitching thing. So when
they come to pick us up, like all right, so
everybody everybody got hit with a it was an assault,
and Batty would attempt to kill charge everybody got everybody

(29:43):
where you're at that age, I think sixteen seventeen, because
they came and got me from high school and I
was either repeating tenth grade. I think I'd repeating ten grade,
so therefore be in eleventh grade, so they were looking
at level grade class. I was the ninth grade, the
tick grade. It looks like I was repeating. Once I
got the hospital was all bad. I felt. I felt

(30:06):
ninth grade. They went to summer school, pass went to tenth.
They fell tenth and when I feel temp, I think
my pops was like, nah, you're staying in tenth. I
FoST to graduated ninety six. I graduated ninety eight, and
they with me, Yeah, I'm just regular, Yeah, Jack said,
he checked out in like tenth grade. Two. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(30:27):
I really checked out. I really checked You didn't graduate school, Yeah, graduated,
but I checked out the way before that, years before,
and you were playing ball. It was all about who Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was all about who ball and puss. The teachers
was cool with it though, they yeah, that was cool
with it back then. Now I ain't telling know you
they was part of the playing back then. They're rocking
with it. They want to see you making right now.

(30:47):
They got their own motives. What was the path that
got you going into radio? How did you know that
was your calling? Or did it happen you wanted it?
How did it? Honestly, man, ray yeo was the first
thing that I ever did in my life that felt
constructive and positive because before that, like I was running

(31:08):
the streets the first time. You know, when you first
get out jail, you got to get a job, right.
So I worked it industrial, a Couci company is like
a warehouse. Got fired from there. Two weeks that I
worked in a flower guard and I worked there for
a week. That that shit with modern day slavery. It
was like me and a bunch of Mexicans out there
and I'm like this ain't for me, Like so I
quit that after a week. And then I don't see
bother day slavery. That that's I hate when people compare

(31:30):
things to slavery. But it was, it was a few,
it wasn't for me. Then I worked at a clothing
store called Demo in the mall, remember dem Ye, And
then I did tell the marketing. So I was the
guy that would call your house and try to sell
you tencds for a penny. So, and I worked at
taco about at one point my sister fired me after
two weeks. But I'm saying all that to say I
wanted to do anything exself with being in the street, right,

(31:51):
That's it. I did not want to be in a
pretty much two weeks after two weeks, he was a manager.
She was the manager. She hired me in five minutes.
How much free talk about the get during that time
too much? That's why that's talking about high school. But
that's why. I just wanted to do something positive. And
I remember reading this acronym for peace and it was
positive energy activated constant elevation. So I knew, as long

(32:14):
as I'm out here doing something positive, things with growth,
things of growth, things of growth. And then, like most
dudes in the hood. I wanted to rap. I'm clearly
too short to want to play ball. So it's just
like the people who I saw on TV that was
successful that looked like me were usually in rap or athletic.
I started picking up the pen and writing, and I
remember being in this recording studio. I met this guy
named Willie will and he did local radio as the

(32:34):
UNINITYU Jams and Charleston. I just asked him, I said,
yaw'd you getting the radio? He's like, I went done.
Then I got an internship. I'm like, yo, it's that easy.
He was like, yeah, this is nineteen ninety eight and
Charleston psychrolantic, So I ain't had to be in college
and none of that. And so that's what I did.
I went done then, and I got an internship. And
like just being in that environment, like the radio, you
know what I mean, watching artists come in and out
and being a contract and stuff. I'm like, this is

(32:55):
what I wanted to That's it, this is what I
want to do. When did you come to New York?
Two thousand and six came to me up for the
first well not the first time I had been in
New York, once before, so I did't. I didn't get
on a plane until I was like twenty one years old,
twenty two years I don't remember when that was. I
remember I came up here because my people's Never So
Deep records, doctor Robert Evans, his son Blessed. They had

(33:17):
a studio, I mean a record labe because Never was
so Deep. So they was up here mixing records. And
I flew up here with them for one weekend, but
then to live up here. I came here in two
thousand and six, and that's because Wendy Williams and her
husband they were looking for a co host. I didn't
even know, and I happened to be up here with
them for a party and she invited me on her
show and I was on her show for like twenty

(33:38):
twenty five minute and literally that night they was offering
me her co host slot. But it was like, yeah,
we can't pay you, we can give you a place
to stay. I'm like, shit, I'm making eight thousand an
hour in Columbia, so I Carolina right now, I might
as well make that move in New York and see
what happens. And that's what I did. I worked with
her for a year and a half for free. It
was the best and worst time in my life. Learned

(33:59):
a lot from her, just because she's such she's such
a great radio personality, such a great media personality. But
I also learned how not to treat people when you
are in that position that they were in. You know
what I'm saying. I always say that was the best
and the worst experience of my life because, yeah, they
were terrible to people. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Well,

(34:20):
you hear that. I wondered because I don't know and
I don't like to judge, but you hear that about
Ellen and how she had to do a whole of
makeshift with her crew behind the scenes because people said
they weren't treated right. So it's that that that kind
of stuff used to fly under the radar, but that's
not flying no more, and it's a good position to
be in no Oka. Once you call somebody like Ellen out,
the only apology is changed behavior. So now her staff

(34:43):
probably getting car service. Can I help you? You need
some rolls, pedals being thrown on the floor, they walk,
all types of stuff, because that's the only way that
she can rectify prove it. So you had a learning
experience with Wendy, which counterproted you a few years later
into the breakfast club. How did that whole how did
you and jin and be come together? Well? I got

(35:04):
fired from Wendy November of two thousand and eight. That
was just because like the economy was in the tilet
so like everybody was getting fired like that. I got
fired on November second. And the reason I remember that
President Black Obama became president of elect on November third,
so I fired on him a second They fired like
thirty people. So I was cool with that, even though
I had too much pride to go collect unemployment, you
know what I mean. My wife was working at the time,

(35:25):
so she was holding it down with the bills and stuff.
And then my daughter, my first daughter, was born Junior
that year, so I was just to stay at home
that And then I got put on the radio in
Philly like around maya, two thousand and nine, and so
I worked in Philly for like eight to nine months
and got fired again. And that time I went home.
I was like, man, I said, this city from me.
I'm going back to South Carolina. We all packed up, me,

(35:47):
my now wife, my first daughter. We went back to Cycline.
I stayed there for a year, but prior to that,
I always had kept in touch with my man g Spen,
you know. And g Spen was the assistant program director
that Pole one on five at the time, and he
he was the one that kind of like he had
bought Envy in. He had me on the radar and
that he was telling on Cadillac Jack, who was another
mentor of mine, just about us constantly. And so it

(36:12):
literally meant I was in New York for the summer
once and that the summer Old nine. I remember hitting
up Gemen like, y'a, I'm in town. He was like, Yo,
come to the station right now. So I went to
the station. And when I went to the station, he
was like, Yo, my, my, my boss, Cadillac Jack. He's
been in here watching your videos all morning. Because me
and Duvall was doing the little Duvalls doing the Hood
State of the Union, which was like a web series

(36:32):
that we would do. We just talk about topics, you know,
this before podcasts, and that's what we was doing, and
Cadillac was like, yo, man, you know. We had this
whole conversation. He actually asked me about Wendy's husband because
I had had a meeting with him before and when
They's husband was with me, and when, unbeknownst to me,
when we had left the meeting, everybody that worked in
that building was like, Yo, you cannot hire Charlotte Magne.

(36:52):
If when They's husband is his manager, that guy is
bad news. Right. So I remember him saying to me,
is that still managing? I said no? He said why.
I said, because when I pray to God to take
negativity out of my life, he's not swinging at things,
He's swinging at people that of the embodiment of that negativity.
And I'm like, he was like oh. And then he

(37:14):
was like, yeah, how long can you wait for this job?
And I'm like, for this whenever the opportunity presents it.
So and then like I think we started November that
year that was two thousand and ten years. Ten years
tap now right, yeah, next month, next month will be
ten years, yeah or whatever they say. I don't know
what i'saying, Yeah, November November ten years Who was some
of the most memorable terviewed you guy from the beginning

(37:35):
of the current man. That's that's such a broad question
because I really sat down in front of people that
I never thought I'd be sitting down, you know what
I'm saying, when you I'm doing radio twenty two years
when I sit back and I think about when I
first started. You know, I've sat down with Senator Clinton.
Sen Hillary Clinton and Senator sat down with Donalman Minsterwards
Fiercon quite a few times. I sat down with Dick Gregory,

(37:57):
you know, Angela Baskett like stuff like that freached me out,
Like I ask Angela basket like, I don't know how
everybody else feel about her, but me, I'm like, yo.
I sat there with Magic Johnson, like I get I
got to ask Magic about catching h like you know
what i mean, Like and asking him a question of
that I've always thought about, Like when you first got it,

(38:17):
did you think about every little woman that you've been
with throughout your whole life and be like, damn, I
bet you it was the young lady Sacramento And he
was like, hell, yeah, you know what I'm saying. But
it's just like but it's just like those conversations. I
never thought I'd be able to ask the stuff I've

(38:38):
always thought about with people to them, you know what
I mean. So it's just like, man, I don't. I
can't sit here and say which one is more memorable,
because sitting down with Lorenz State is memorable to me,
you know what I mean, Like sitting down with me
along is memorable to me. This is memorable, sitting down
with a vice president Joe Biden, any of those ones
that go viral, like you know what I mean, Like
all of these people mean something to me in various ways.

(39:01):
Was there a person or a time you felt kind
of like, damn, I just interviewed so and so, like
I feel like I've made it now? Was there a
time like that light came on? When did you feel
like you had made it? Nah? No, Nah, I still
now because you know, we live in such a fast
paced world. You're only as good as your last conference.
So it's just like I'm supposed to just sit back

(39:21):
and be cool. Because Hillary Clinton talked about hot sauce,
It's like, nah, what's next? And then literally, you know
what's so crazy? That week that that Hillary Clinton hot
sauce thing was Monday. That Friday was bird Man put
some respect on Monday. So it's just like that's the
way it moves. It moves just that fast, Like Hillary
be your biggest interview on the Monday. Literally that was
our biggest interview ever on a Monday, and then Friday. No,

(39:42):
this is really your biggest in like numbers wise, analytical
analytic wise, this is your biggest interview ever. So it's
just like, I don't know, I don't never feel like
I've I've made it, haven't. I haven't got to Definitely
I did get to a place of worthy. I got
to that place last and symbol you know, me just
feeling like I'm worthy, like not dealing with imposter s
and drone, like I'm right where I'm supposed to be

(40:02):
because God wants me to be here. But I never
felt like, you know, I've made it. Who are some
of the people you looked up to in this space
or who have actually mentored you in this space? Oh? Man,
so many? I mean from Afar, people like Pete Green.
You know, Pete Green was dope. You know, there's a
movie called Talk to Me Class and like pet is

(40:26):
like pd is what I think every black radio personality
should be, you know, and he reminded me so much
of me because he didn't have no formal training, Like
he was a voice in jail, you know, like That's
how he basically got discovered and ended up getting put
on the radio. You know. So it's just like him
the time Joiners of the world, because when it comes
to the business of radio, those are the brothers that

(40:47):
figured it out early. You know, they figured out that
ownership part of it of it early. You know, Steve Harvey,
Doug Banks, you know, Swaying, Big Boy, Are Martinez, Wendy Williams,
and the beauty of it. These are people, some of
these people I've actually gotten a chance to get game
from right, you know, like I want cent for three Agie.

(41:07):
I talked to Angie Martinez now often. You know Big Boy,
he works at iHeart like me and him have conversation.
Suey has always giving me games. So it's just like
I learned from all of them, you know what I mean,
because they all paved the way for me to even
be doing what I'm doing. You mentioned ownership, which I love. Um,

(41:28):
you've recently teamed up with iHeart uh and created Black Effect.
Can you tell us what that's about? Yeah, the Black
Effect podcast network. Man, It's like, um, the audio business
is booming, you know, and I've been with Breakfast Club
for ten years. But I've been doing my own podcast,
The Brilliant Idiots for like six years, you know, so
I had a ten percent ownership stake in a podcast

(41:48):
network called Loudspeaker. You know, so I've been watching, you know,
just the inner workings of the podcast game from that
perspective for a long time. And then you know, when
you sit back and you start seeing Bill Simmons on
what he's doing with the ringer, and you see what
Gimblet is doing, and you see what anchor is doing,
you see what Barstool is doing. You sit back and
me like, well, why there's no black network like that?

(42:11):
You know what I mean? You got these networks that
have black shows, but was the network that's like majority
on black and it's really paying attention to what's going
on in our coach and really knows the voices that
needs to be you know, amplified. It's just like, let me,
let me build that. So that's where my mind has
been for like the past three or four years. And
I knew my my contract was up in the symbol.

(42:32):
I think I put myself in a position to where
they would want to negotiate with me. You know, I
think I got a little bit of that didn't cause
it Black left reach, you know. So I was like, look, man,
you know I don't want to be talented, like you know,
you already know. I'm in this podcast space. You know,
I'm going to take this somewhere, so let's figure it out,

(42:53):
you know. And it was with it, it was it
was not no hesitation, like literally no hesitation. So we
created this whole old other company called the Black Effect
Podcast Network. I'm a majority owner of it, you know,
along with I Heart, And it's enabling me to use
their resources and their finances to invest in us. And
I love it too because, like we said, with the

(43:13):
allocation of the NBA money, they need to be able
to work with pillars in those communities. Absolutely, you're a
pillar of our communities. Like you said, You're able to
use I Heearts resources and all the amazing ship that
comes with our heart to help focus on us and
help grow us. And you know, I'm excited to obviously
having all the Smoke as a partner. Man. I'm happy
at y'all partner. I remember I remember when they hit

(43:34):
hit me and it was like, yo, we might have
a chance of partner with all the Smokes I'm like
do it. I'm like, I'm like, do it. Give them
whatever they want, you know what I mean. And it
was like, say, think black leverage because y'all got numbers.
They know, like they can't front on y'all. They can't
tell y'all what they think y'all should get. There's a

(43:57):
there's a marketing value and you either got to meet
that at don't we know we were We appreciate it, man,
Look like I said, we obviously showtime shout out Showtime.
So yeah, no, I heartened Black Effect. We're proud to
be a part of that family too. You know, you
and I talk once a week on just strategizing and
how can That was the first thing I told when
I when I went got over that, I was like, bro,
I want to help you really grow this shit. Like

(44:17):
you know, I'm not just a talking head on a
podcast like less. Like they put someone in control now
that really has a post for our culture. So that
made me excite, Like they gave me hope, like okay,
here we come. And what I hit him the other day,
I was like, what do you think about a black barstool?
And He's like, shit, that's what we're trying to Now
that's what you just said. That the whole time you
called him the black Death Simmons, Simmons deal Simmons. Yeah,

(44:38):
because I told me about the cash out, like Bill did.
I told I told Madam, like, Yo, that's what I see.
All the smoke eventually beating. He wants us to give
us a little let me tell him, and I want
to see all the smoke, have all the smoke need
just it's network where they're just rolling out those voices
and sports that are like y'all, you know what I'm saying,
Like there's it, and only y'all know that. Only Matt

(45:00):
and Steven know who those other boys are that are
like y'all, those guys that are cut from that cloth. Yeah, absolutely,
Like that's that's that's why this show works. Plenty sports
guys have gotten together and done shows. We ain't never
seen sports from a real nigga perspective, right, And that's
just the truth to the rep. I've also liked that

(45:21):
you've been for a while, Like you said, you've had
your podcast, You've dabbled in MTV reproductions. Uh, you have
the emerging Hollywood on YouTube. One thing that I thought
was really dope though, because you've we've been hearing your
growth and in your evolution as as not only a
black man but a businessman as well. But one thing

(45:41):
that touched me was the the the Wi Fi situation
that you provided was it was it in Columbia. Yeah,
talk to us about that because that ship, just like
that was so dope. Yeah, change my man, man, Stephen Benjamin.
You know what I'm saying to Steve Benjamin black Man,
Columbia Socroline. That's why local politics is so important because
I can't pick up the phone and get to the president,

(46:02):
you know what I mean. But I'm from South Carolina.
I've lived in Columbia and my wife went to the
University of South Carolina. I can pick up the phone
and hit my man, Steven. It's just a matter of like, yo, Steve,
what does the city need right now? Because I usually
do a book bag drive every year, and I've been
doing that for years at my hometown Amongst Corner, but
that just didn't feel right this year. So I just
reached out to Steve and he was like, man, that's
so I'm so happy you hit me. And he introduced

(46:23):
me to this company called Ignite Cities and basically what
Ignite Cities is doing is making sure that people have
WiFi in these various areas, you know. And it was
just like, Yo, this is how much it's gonna cost,
and they can make it happen. I'm like, that's easy,
you know. So now that I did it, it got
it gets the ball rolling on the city because now
the city look kind of crazy like our citizens. I'll

(46:49):
do us. So now the next round they gotta handle that.
So it's just like, you know, that's why I don't
really like to talk about things like that. But I
realized it's just like why people start right, people stunting.
They get inspired. You see somebody with a car that
you want, you damn I want that. You see somebody
with a chain, I'm like, well I want to do
that now. Like I said, the fact that I saw
you do that, I was going to ask you how

(47:11):
because I want to get to the poor. Like people
don't understand, like we're in a new I mean, I
have kids and we're on online school and that ship
is terrible. But I couldn't imagine if my kids couldn't
get online and get their schoolwork done. You know what
you said you saw some kids trying to take Wi
Fi from Taco Bell. Yeah, they're sitting right next to
Taco Bell. Yeah. It was an article I read and
it was these kids. It was literally doing that homework.
And Steven had already Steven already told me about him ansament.

(47:36):
So when when I read that article and I and
he told me, I was a man, we gotta do
this asap. Right, let's let's get this. I need to Yeah,
I'm trying to do that in Sacramento too, So I
need to get that infom gonna gonna talk how important
has it been for you in your journey? Like I said,
I just saying your praises, but how important has it
been for you to empower the black voice not only
in your space, but in the athletic space and the

(47:58):
politics space and the unity space. That's all I care about.
Like if I was an NBA player, I would definitely
want to lead the league and assist more than scoring points.
Like that's all I care about. Like literally, like I've
always regardless of what platform I was on, whether it
was Breakfast Club, whether it was my podcast, whether it
was the shows I was doing on Viacom, like uncommon
sense like I always want to give everybody else an opportunity,

(48:21):
you know what I mean? Because I feel like that's
how you live forever. Right, Eventually your star is gonna burnout.
Eventually people will get tired and seeing you front and
center all the time. So what keeps you alive? Who
you opened the door for? When I look at guys
like jay Z, Like, look at the all the fruit
off jay Z's tree, Well, I mean no Rihanna and

(48:45):
Kanye Yeah, Jay Cole, people like another person who got
the fruit from a tree, you know what I mean?
Like I want to be that, Like you want to
be that guy that you empowered space though too, you're
doing it in the new space, and music has been
that They've had their struggles, don't get me wrong, and
they've been able to do it. But you're in this

(49:06):
multimedia space that has has been and still is dominated
by a certain culture. So I just want to do
it for the things that I know I'm good at,
Like I'm good in the audio space, I'm good in
the book world, you know what I'm saying. So being
that I'm good in those spaces, I can provide opportunities
in those spaces. Right, let's what's up. That's my fun.
Interview has been going. That's probably to me, this has

(49:27):
been the most smooth interview we've done. Just on been
it's flowing, even slid in a couple of questions. Yeah,
it's still in it. Um, we're coming to the end
and ship went by quick as fuck. Um. Top five
hip hop albums in your mind before you start, Good

(49:49):
Trouble eight songs. I'm dropping on George blad birthday. I'm
gonna send it to your earl though. Good Trouble. Okay,
who I know you got trade on that, but just
me on that. Oh all right, okay, okay, self pluck.
That's all. We gotta show. Top five either we can
do We can either do albums or we can do artists.
It's easy for me to do artists. Let's do artists.
And I really do have a top out of top seven.

(50:12):
My top seven is jay Z number one. He probably
he probably means the most ghost Face is my favorite
rapper of all time, but jay Z is probably the
most important rapper of of of of all time to me,
right then, Scarface, love Face, t I Jeez, Killer, Mike

(50:34):
in in Nas. That's that's my that's my top seven
that I can go listen to any of the albums
at any given time and be be contents my top
five or seven. With the top five or seven, I'm
going Park jay Z, Face Nas, bund b Yeah one

(51:01):
Cole one Cole. We forget about Bunn only because he
was part of a group like your name if I
name groups, Yeah, I'm putting u g K. You know
what I'm saying. But we forget about how cold Bunn is. Yeah,
I got pot, I got Big, I got Jay, I
got snoot God Nip about to say you got as

(51:25):
much you listen to Nip Bro. You gotta love yours.
I love I love that man. That that that that
that legacy. That's what you call a stolen legacy. So
fast see, I see I gotten. My brother always puts
me on the music. So when I was coming to
LA in two thousand and nine ten, He's like, you
gotta listen to Nick, Like he's just he's your fun
with him. So I started listening to his ship and

(51:45):
instantly fell in love. And then I came to the
Lakers the next season, so I hit dude on a
d M and he hit me right back. I'm like, YO,
need to the Lakers. You know when Ucla come to
a game, came to a game and just hit it
off with him. I mean, Jenny went down to Earth
and and I've seen him evolved from when he was
riding around a little show and I'd be falling them
to two shows and we'd be upstairs. I'll be with
a bunch of sixties upstairs on the Lakers smoking weed.
Like is that Matt marsh from the Lakers back they're

(52:08):
smoking with you know what I mean. So to be
able to see his elevation from when I when I
when I learned them on him in O nine to
what he left us with, like he said that was
a star shot down early I met. I'm saying with
my homegirl, deVie Brown. She was doing radio in La
on Cadis when I used to go out there. She
used to put me on all the new rappers. So
it was Kendrick, it was Nipsey, it was Glasses Malone,
Bishop Lunt, and I remember hearing that bullets Ain got

(52:30):
no Name. I was like, God, co right, damn for
his evolution to the content in which he wrapped it,
he rapped about his evolvement to and his evolution and
she was heard it through every project Shaw Mailbox Money
up until Victory Lap and that was what to think about.
That was his first album though, yeah, History Lap was
his first. I mean he obviously he has if you

(52:52):
know his history, he's got his history. But that was
just his That was number one and it was called
Victory Laps. Like, think about that, your first debut album
on the mer label, which ends up being your last
album is called Victory Lap Like. It's almost like some foreshadows,
some poh like many he said, they said he two
pockets generation. We got to ask him a question that
we didn't we getting asked our guess, so, who do

(53:14):
you think should be on our show next? But when
you answer that question, you gotta be somebody that you
can help us get on here everybody? You know he
said jay Z about jay Z on all the smoke
will be fired everybody. I want to see Shack on
him with some reason. I just tapped in with Shaq Shack.
Even motherfucking Hollywood, Inness, bro, we hit you last week.

(53:35):
You said he was coming, then Jack hitching and he
said he was coming. Then you disappeared to start doing
all these motherfucking commercials. I just talked to him last week.
Though he gave me his new number. He said it's on.
He said, as soon as the playoffs over. Playoffs are
about to be over shot. And we know you you
know you got to go to all these banks and
make all these deposits because you're getting all this money,
but you know, just making a time for us. Man.
You know why I want to see Shack on here,
because Shaq got he got some real nigga. He's suppressing

(53:56):
oh Man, But it's only because yeah, yeah, yeah, But
I think if he gets around, y'all will ye. He
was one of the craziest teams. I can't wait to
talk about man, the ship he used to do in
the locker room. If he talks about it, it's gonna
blow people away. That motherfucker was a seven foot two,

(54:16):
three hundred and sixty pound kid like media funny as mother.
That's the inside info that y'all have that people don't have.
He was in the locker room with Shack doing so
the conversations are different. That's why even if you watch
the show like Drink Champs with Nori, right, no reason
Nori can talk to these guys the way he does
Roll with him inside information. That's what they are saying

(54:39):
with us, because we've been there, we felt every emotion
we've been you know what I mean? So I like
that shot. Five dinner guests that are alive, Oh Man,
Um Donabole, Elijah Muhammad, Martin Luther King, Junior, Pop Nip
and who my Angelo. Considering the climate we're in right now,
one book you would recommend for people to read Message

(55:02):
well for black people or just in general. I tell everybody, man,
you've got to if you've never read a Message to
the Black Man Biologih Muhammad, that's an amazing book for
every black man on this planet to read, you know
what I mean, because there's so many different life lessons
that we can apply to what's going on now, from
police to politics, to diet to you know, mental health, mindfulness, everything.

(55:23):
It's like an honorable ALTI Muhammad was was eighty years
ahead of everybody when he wrote that book. On the
flip side, people who are trying to align with us,
a book you would recommend for them to read or
understand us honestly, to understand us man, I think the
autobiography of Malcolm X and the reason I say the
autography of Malcolm X is because you see what happens
when a black man is put in a certain environment, right,

(55:47):
but you also see what happens when a black person
has provided an opportunity. Because I always say, the greatest
book about growth and evolution that I've ever read in
my life is the autobiography of Malcolm X. Malcolm Little
going to Malcolm X. And I think that's what one
thing people don't understand about the Nation of Islam. They
provide that opportunity for black people that America's not, you
know what I'm saying. They provide those tools and those

(56:08):
resources for black people that America is not. And that's
how you can get a Malcolm Little to turn into
a Malcolm X. That's why you can get a cascious
Clay to turn to a Muhammad Ali, you know what
I mean. So it's just like I think that if
white people read that book, they would understand that black
people aren't inherently evil, you know what I mean. This
system put us in a fucked up position, and in

(56:32):
order for this system the really atone for its sins,
it's got to provide things for us to get us out.
And since we know that's not gonna happen. We're gonna
have to do it ourselves straight up. Last question, who
is your one figure you look up to that all
lives a lot? Oh that's jay Z for sure. Definitely

(56:56):
good question. Explain yours and then I Z jay Z
for me because and you're so crazy. When I when
I first listened to jay Z, I didn't. I didn't
like jay Z only because, like you know, I come
from the South. I was into like the gritty, grimy stuff.
So it was just like, let dude was talking about
so much money and all that big Willie tall. It
was like, I don't want to hear that. But the

(57:17):
reason I look up to him is because it's just
like watching his evolution from coming in the game as
a rapper entrepreneur. But the things he used to talk
about to all to always, when I say always, always
showing us where he's at in his life. If you
listen to every jay Z album, you could tell exactly
what he was at in his life. He went from

(57:37):
the player who was kicking girls out at sticks in
the morning to now being the husband, family man, going
to therapy. And if you've ever had the pleasure of
just being up at rock Nation. It's just like, that's
what you would want your company to look like. This
his family and it's his long time friends. Yeah, he's
really like the blueprint, you know, and the way he

(57:59):
just quiet lee shows up for his people all the time,
like and it has been doing it for years. Were
just getting hipped to all of the things that that
that he's done. But it's just like when I look
at him, he's just a good representation of what I
think a black man is. Like. You know, you you
dealt the worst hand you make, you make the you
make the best of that hand you would dealt become

(58:21):
a billionaire, but you take your your people with you
every step of the way. The people that are willing
to grow what you doing the one that I will grow.
It ain't meant for everybody, but the ones that are
that are willing to grow with you, and they're supposed
to be there, they still with you. And he represents
that that to me. Jack, to answer your question, I
guess I look at it different. Um. You know, to
be able to play as long as I play in

(58:42):
the NBA, my transition into this space, there's people I
look up to. So he's one of them. Um, Stephen A.
Smith is one of them. Michael Strahan, who is to
me the ultimate because he was able to cross from
professional athlete to sports but then to mainstream media too,
And that's what I really want to do. Like I
love sports, but I want to transition into like real

(59:03):
um life. And then Kevin Fraser, Kevin Kevin Is. Kevin's
helped me in this space. You told me one, I
didn't know I could need more. Yeah, but Jack surprised me.
I wasn't ready for my own question. Who's yours? I
think the only person I look up to as my
little brother. But it's simple fact that I wanted to
be that guy that day to one woman through high school,

(59:26):
had kids by working one family, doing everything to write,
so I got kids all over the place. Y know
what I'm saying, that's only because you're allergic to column
So that's not really that. That's not what it was.
That's not what it was. But uh but seriously, though, Nah,
I honestly look up to my little brother because he's
done everything the right way. Obviously he wanted my life.
He wanted to play basketball, but it didn't work out

(59:46):
for him. But his life and the way the man
he is and how he takes care of our whole
family when anybody called, he there for him. That's the
that's the man. I really want to shout out to
Stamp Barley and not twins, got twins and Junior. Yeah,
that's crazy you say that about because it's it's guys
that I've I'm totally faithful to my wife. Now, I've

(01:00:07):
been faithful for four years since I told twenty and sixty.
But hello, you've been with her. I like it, though
it's a change. You got to start somewhere a date
with Jack that is real. It's like, Yo, we do
look up to these guys that are faithful today women
yea early on. You know what I'm saying, Like I
didn't had that kind of discipline because you know how
tough it is. You know how tough it is. Like

(01:00:29):
I didn't fire anybody, the kids, because I've never been
perfect when it comes to that. That's that's so hard though,
that's another good Well. I just I just think he
understood what he wanted with his life at a young age,
you know what I'm saying, Like being saying, my grandmother,
my grandfather been together for so long. You know what
I'm saying my mom, you know, she really just dedicated.
I like to us, it's certain things that triggered him
to do things the right way. He was around me,

(01:00:50):
He's seen me doing all that stuff, he's seen women
around me. He was just so focused on doing things
the right way, and that's what I wanted, but I
was distracted by other ship. Yeah, I didn't want to
do my household the way my father and I love
my pops, you know what I'm saying. But I didn't
want to do my household the way I saw him
do his house. You know what I'm saying. He got
caught with his digging the dirt. He's still with the
same woman, so clearly that was meant to be right.
But my mom got divorced and then that kind of,

(01:01:12):
like to me, messed the family up, right, So I
didn't want to do that in my house. You know. Well,
that's a wrap, Charlotte bay Man. We appreciate your time.
They've been waiting on that, man. Thank you for having me.
That's a wrap. All the Smoke You can find this
on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart Family Black Effects Yes,

(01:01:36):
and All the Smoke Network coming soon. You shout out Snoop,
This is all a smoke. A production of The Black
Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime