Today on The Breakfast Club, Debbie Allen Talks Her New Barbie Tribute Doll, DA Dance Academy, 'Fame', Mariah Carey, Kobe. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every day a waygo click your ass up the Breakfast Club,
finish with y'all done morning.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Everybody's DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are
the Breakfast Club. Lonla Roses here as well. And we
got a special guest in the building, a legendary guest,
the legend. Some guests are special, some a legendary and iconic.
That's right, and we have the iconic, the legendary, Miss
Debbie Allen.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome morning, thank.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
You, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
How are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I feel really good. I'm on New York Time, I'm
on New York Air. I'm feeling good to be in
New York. I like I missed the city. Every time
I come. There's so much happening. Saturday morning, I woke
up and there was this big protest outside the whole.
I heard all this noise and I looked down and
there was like half a million people in Times Square.
(00:51):
And then I went to new restaurants and saw new shows,
saw two new shows.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I love New York absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah. Condolences too on the loss.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Of your mother, as I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Absolutely, and I was I was thinking about you when
you was coming in. Man, because you know, you've built
such a legacy, you know, Broadway, television and film. When
you think about the word legacy, now, does it mean
what you've done.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Or who you've helped? Do it? After you?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Oh, well, you know what, I would have to say,
who I'm helping, because that's real legacy. You know, I
have so many hundreds of kids that I'm educating at
the dance school and across around the world with the
you know, the internet has allowed us to be international
(01:45):
bink of you know, we can have these ig classes. Yeah,
Legacy I think has to do with the future and
what see if you're planning, what path you have lit
that helps people find their way.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
When you started dancing into drama, did you know that
that was going to be your career? Did you know
that was that? Because even to this day, you know,
I have kids, I was telling you that dance, and
I always think to myself, well, what does dance take
them to? But then when I look at your career,
I'm like, there's no, there's so many possibilities. Did you
ever think that that was going to be a career.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I was determined at four years old that that was
going to be my career. Because we were watching television
and we would watch musicals would come on every Saturday morning,
and I so wanted to replace that Shirley Temple, honey.
I wanted that to be me going up and down
those steps with Bill Robinson and all those glorious musical films.
(02:39):
I saw myself in that world. And then it was
a challenge to get the training in the segregated South
where I grew up. But Mom was always very resourceful
and she found ways. And yeah, I think children can
see themselves, and this is why you have to make
it possible for them by letting them see other things.
(03:02):
I remember when Mom wouldn't let me go to the
circus because she wanted me to go and see this
East Indian dance company, and I was kicking and screaming,
I want to see those clowns and those lions. But
when I saw that dance company, I saw a whole
nother language of dance that I didn't know had not seen.
I was probably eight years old. But this is why
(03:24):
we have to expose our children to more, which is
why right now we need more and more and more education,
more cultural problem programs for children, art programs, and just
take them on those field trips to take them to
see art exhibits, take them to see dance concerts or
music concerts or you know, little plays at the why
(03:48):
anything that is outside of the box of the video
game shots of it all and television. Mom used to
make us think that the television was broke, so we
would take our butts out.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's what makes it so important to debiela Dance Academy.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Right, congratulations, it is quite a landmark.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Let's let's talk about what that means, because, as I
was saying, when I'm out there on the road with
my daughters, a lot of times we don't see too
many people that look like us. Yeah, and a lot
of that is not because we can't dance. It's because
we can't afford it. The traveling, the costumes, the privates,
it's it's a lot. And I didn't realize until I
jumped in and my wife bead like, we need another check.
(04:30):
I'm like, another check, but it's so expensive. So talk
about the importance of opening that school.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Will The Debbiellan Dance Academy is in cultural Oases that
now has a middle school, has programs for boys, elders,
cancer patients, but for young people. It is designed to
be an open door for whoever it is that has
the spirit of the dance and come through that door
and find the class and I will get a program
(04:56):
for you. I basically said no to competent I've been
asked year after year after year, and I don't do
them because I want children to compete with themselves. I
want them to be in the classroom. I want them
to be in the dance studio and see where am I?
Did I do that turn? Can I balance? Can I
(05:17):
do the passe? Can I you know, what is it
that I'm learning? Can I do that tap? Break? And
I think it's great, Like you say, the competition world
is a great experience. It teaches children performance and a
lot of things and does cost a lot of money,
and so it would be not possible for so many
(05:37):
of us. It's just not possible. So where I'm living,
I am raising money every minute of my waking life
to give more opportunity to the kids. I mean, right
now is very difficult with all the foolishness is going
on in Washington, the foolishness is going on with the
nonprofit world. I mean, you can't even write a grant
(05:59):
now and say you're you know, focused on brown and
black children. You can't even say that. You can't say
you're dealing with disabled you can't. I mean, there's so
many this is ridiculous. So it means that we're going
to just become more grassroots the way we were in
the fifties hunting, because that's what it was. It was
(06:20):
you have to get your community together, and there's a
big community of diverse people who want to see the
arts prevail and programs prevail because that's the future. What
The creativity that it takes to create a vallet like
revelations is the same creativity that will cure cancer. It's
(06:42):
the same part of your brain that we are developing. Creativity.
You have to think outside the box to figure these
things out and to come to some you know, understanding
or level of accomplishments. And to me, creativity is the
closest you can be to God is to be creative.
So the Debbie all and Dans Academy is a real
(07:04):
purpose in my life and my husband, Norman Nixon's life,
my daughter's life, my son, the whole community. We have
a community of parents and people who love us in
the nationwide because we have to, you know, throw that
tin cup out there everywhere. I mean, if I could
say a million people just send me two dollars, it
(07:25):
would help us get through a whole year of programming
an opportunity. We have a program called we have a
program called Sons of Data, and that's for the boys.
I have more boys in my school than any school
I bet in America. I don't make them with the tights.
(07:47):
They can come to ballet class in their shorts or
the sweatpants, but they are there. I mean, I got
thirty boys, and there's a program Sons of Data that
offers a scholarship for them. If all they have to
do is say I want raise the hand, I want
to come wow, and then they're there. David Coburn has
been very supportive of this program, but it needs to expand.
(08:10):
I just I just don't have enough hours in the
day to do all that I know I could do,
and I just have to keep working. And I have
a great team that is helping me.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now while we're here. Just tell them how they can donate,
because people listening right now, and you talk about the school.
If somebody wants to donate that two dollars, Like you said,
a million people, how can they donate?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
If you go on the Debbie Allen Dance Academy dot com,
you'll see there's a program called Rhythm of Giving. Or
you can just see how to get in touch with
Deanan Bartello, or just how to drop through you know,
PayPal or what gotcha you might want to do.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You know, it's interesting because you've been directing and choreographing
for decades. How do you keep your art evolving when
the culture itself always keeps shifting so fast.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Well, that's what's exciting, because I'm with these young people
all the time, and there's a new language every you know,
a couple of years that you have to you know,
I mean, the Afro beat right now is everything I was.
I have been Mariah Carey's creative director many times, and
(09:17):
last year when I worked with Jenna Tompkins to do
her show, I introduced the style of dance, the Afro Beat,
into the choreography and it was amazing to do Joy
to the world with that style of dance. The dancers
were on a respiraated child with the first number, because
that afro beat is serious. Yeah, it's fast, but it
(09:42):
takes a lot of energy to do it, and they
loved it. So that's what's beautiful. The nature of the
universe has changed, and anybody that doesn't understand that, well, sorry, what.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Do you teach or how do you teach the artist
you work with, like a Mariah Carey or even like
a you've been working with her for some time too,
about longevity and as things change, because things will change, like,
how do you teach them how to you know relevance
and impact?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Like what the career you have? Well, I don't think
I have to teach Mariah Carey about longevity. I mean,
she's been the song bird yeah for so long, and
she's got a new album out. She is one of
these creative geniuses who writes her music and I've never
gone into a production where she didn't have an idea
(10:31):
about what she thinks it is. So I don't know
if that's I mean you're asking me about.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
I guess it's like the mentorship because even the way
that people look at you and how you handle just
anything you deal with and throughout your career, there's a
lot coming your way because of who you are. Mariah
Carey has a lot coming her way every day. I
guess I'm asking what the mentorship between you and these
women and men that you're working with that are these
big stars, What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
It's very personal, It's very personal. I think part of
what I bring wherever I'm working is a motherhood, embrace,
push knowledge, idea. I mean, I just said a lot
of things that I don't know if you got all that.
(11:18):
But when people work with me, they know that I
come with a huge experience in many things, and sometimes
it's very intimidating to people. I've had some battles that
you would be surprised, and I think it has a
lot to do with my expertise and ability. I'm an
(11:42):
executive producing director of Gray's Anatomy. We're in season twenty two.
We know Shonda Rhimes put me there to be an
integral part of keeping that show in energetic and moving,
and I hire all the directors. I hire new directors.
Felicia Shaw just became a director on Gray's and Nat
(12:07):
yeah she's a new one. Yeah, we kind of like her.
But there to work with incredible showrun and make Marinus
who you know, I read every outline. I'm part of
the casting you know, and I've worked with dps who
are brilliant. I produced the movie Amista with Steven Spielberg,
(12:31):
which will always be a big, big accomplishment for all
of us. It's not just me. For all of us
to get that movie made, you'd be hard pressed to
do it today the way things are going. But I
have such a wealth of experience. That is a big
thing that I bring, So I see things very quickly.
(12:52):
I can make decisions very quickly. You know, I'm here
doing auditions for Joe Turner's Coming Gone, and I'm I'm
seeing such wonderful new talent that I had not known before.
But even in that process, I can see immediately this
one has the potential. This one is talented, but not
(13:13):
right for this part. I mean, it's just experience.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I love people who got intention. You know, you said
at four years old you knew you wanted to do dance.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, how did that lead to something like fame?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Well, because I stayed the course and I went and
studied and did the work. I've been taking dance class
my whole life. I was here at the New York
School of Ballet Richard Thomas, John Boy on the walterins
his dad and mom had the best ballet school here
in New York, the New York School of Ballet. And
I was like a little, you know, urchin trucking around
(13:50):
the streets and bought my dance card. And in my class,
I'd look up and Rudolph new Rev would be in
the class, or Mikhayel Barishnikov would be in a class,
Margot Fontang. These are icons in the world of ballet.
And then right across town is Alvin Alely wow, Alvin
(14:13):
Ale you know you, I don't know. I think my
effort has proven successful because I've always done the work.
When you come up in the dance world, it's like
being an athlete. It's why Kobe Bryant and I were friends.
He loved dance and we had a very good relationship.
You train, train, train, train, train. You can't shoot enough,
(14:36):
you can't practice enough, you know, jump shots, whatever they're practiced.
You know those drills that they do to stay in shape.
You have to do the work. And this is something
young people really need right now to understand that you
don't get to get there and stay if you haven't
done the work. Mister Copeland, Oh my god, mister Copeland,
(15:00):
and you know, she's retiring tomorrow night from the American
Ballet Theater. Wow. I would be on stage with her.
She invited me to be on stage with her. But
this is not an ending, but a beginning of what
else she's gonna do. Yeah, but she trained train train,
train train. You know, I've had parents come in you
(15:20):
you your daughter's and dance, and I've had parents say, well,
my daughter, you know, she just miss Allen. She just
feels like, you know, she's doing the same thing all
the time. I said, because she needs to. She has
to learn how to point that foot turning out. I say,
damn it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
You said you and Kobe were friends. How did y'all
get tight? How did y'all get so cool?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, Kobe actually grew up in Italy. Fame was one
of the biggest shows internationally Italy. I still can't walk
down the street, it was that popular. So I came
to a Laker game and he was on the court.
He looked at me and he was like ah, And
I was like I'm looking at him, like oh wow.
(16:05):
And then that admiration was there. And then years later
he actually was interested in learning how to tap dance. Well,
we didn't get to that. But we were going to
get to that. And it was Michael Jackson's death that
really kind of brought us closer because Michael was somebody
(16:28):
that I was very close to. And I was talking
about Michael on television as saying he was he practiced practices.
I said, he was like Kobe Bryant. I said that
in an interview, and then Kobe called me, said, Debbie,
Michael and I were friends. I'll say what. He and
Michael had become friends, and so we started talking and
(16:53):
he was writing these incredible books, and we were making
plans to turn one of his books into the most
incredible Broadway show. We were making plans. He had all
universe that he was creating with animators and composers, and
he brought me in because he respected what I do
(17:16):
and what we could do together. And when we were
building the Debi Allan Dance Academy, which is now the
Rhymes Performing Arts Center, because Shonda Rhymes gifted us the building,
which was amazing, amazing, but we had to raise a
lot of money to build it, and so we took
a meeting and Kobe was the first one. He was
(17:39):
He put a million dollars towards building the DeBie Allen
Dance Academy.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And now we have a wall called the Kobe Bryant
Wall of Light that has all the donors and his
name at the top of that. And so we had
a lot of plans and he loved dance. You know,
it's being an athlete to be a dancer. So Kobe Bryant,
(18:05):
Wallace Sandenberg, Barry Gordy, Shonda Rhimes, the Ford Foundation, they've
been our big angels.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Outside of the discipline that you just talked about and
doing the work, what else did your role as Lydia
and Fame teach you that like served you so well
for the rest of your career.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Well, I actually got an opportunity to create these dances,
and as a child, I was watching them in the movies.
I was watching the movie. Now I was able to
be in charge of what the camera was doing, and
I had all of these ideas from when I was
four years old and so on Fame, I worked with
(18:46):
one of the old jacks, Bill Spencer. He had been
the a camera operator on all those big MGM musicals
and he was just say, oh, kid, we can't do this,
we can't do that. I said why Bill, And then
if he couldn't give me an answer, then he would
go figure it out. So we became friends. So fame
was like going to graduate school. It was like getting
(19:07):
a PhD in directing because it was new. Nobody was
there to tell us or to tell me how to
make this work week to week to week. I had
to figure it out. And then one day he took
me in the archives of MGM. Because I used to
write dance notes so people would understand where we it
(19:28):
would say the music, how long it is, what the
action was with the choreo, what the camera shot is.
He took me in the archives of the MGM musicals
from back in the day and showed me that's what
they did to and nobody taught me. It was just
a way to communicate. So fame really set me up
(19:51):
to do everything that I'm doing right now all the way.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Now, I've heard you say dance is storytelling with the body. Yeah, damn.
Expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Well, you know, in the dance where you don't have words,
you're not singing, you're through your physical being expressing what
is the story? You're expressing love, you're expressing joy, anger,
it's I think the most ancient of all art forms
is dance because when you look at ancient civilizations before
(20:27):
they could write or could know the language, they were
stamping on the ground for rain, for harvest, birth movement,
that proclaiming your existence on this earth. That dance, and
it goes back to Mother Africa where we were stamping
(20:48):
on that ground. I mean, that's the beginning. That's the beginning.
That's the one. That's what Jason Samuel Smith, it is
the one.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, it was it about the movement of the perfection?
Is the movement of perfection?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
All of that? But it's that spirit. See the spirit
in you is what makes you move like that. That
is something that's in your blood memory. That's your DNA speaking.
That's the universe telling you what you already know. It's community,
it's that call and response. Yeah, it's there. We all
(21:33):
have it. We all have it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Who was the most difficult person to teach how to dance?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
That was like they just don't.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Have it now, you know, I can't say people you
know that would be so.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Let's change it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Who was the hardest to teach because they just were
so good and needed to be pushed to the next level.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Then, Oh, I've had students, some that you might not know.
Are you talking about people that I work with professional, Well,
let me put it this way. I worked with Sammy
Davids Junior. He did a special with me. I've never
seen anybody like him. I could show him something one time,
(22:13):
and he did it. He was incredible. So it was
difficult to do much because he'd be like, okay, kid,
what else you got? All right, Sammy, I'm done now.
I think I'm good. It was a challenge for me
to work with him.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You don't get discussed enough. I don't feel like Sammy
gets discussed enough.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
You know, there's an effort to do plays and movies
about him. I know Lena Waite as one she's working on,
and I'm excited that she's thinking about making it into
a show I did. We were working on a Broadway
show called Sammy with the original people that did all
his music and everything, and I did a workshop of
(22:56):
this years ago. This might have been Oh my god,
it had to be almost twenty years ago. And in
that workshop everybody came because it was about Sammy. We
raised a million dollars that day to do the show,
and it didn't go forward because the people that were
in charge of the script just couldn't understand that we
(23:19):
needed to whittle it down. It was you know, when
you have a life story that that full. I mean,
Josephine Baker was a mini series. Yeah, or either you
have to figure out what part of their life are
you going to tell? Because I worked with Bob Fosse
and Sweet Charita, and he told me and I believed
him and I learned that from him. Kid, if anything
(23:40):
over three hours is too long, too long, baby, you know.
But Sammy is someone that he's one of the most
legendary and incredible artists to ever step on a stage.
As a child, you can look at that film of
him when he's five exists. He was a deer man
(24:04):
who had quite a struggle, quite a struggle in his lifetime.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Barbie is honoring you with your own tribute doll. What
went through your mind when you first got that call.
I'm assuming that you're getting your own Barbie doll.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I know it was like getting an Oscar. It was like, yeah,
because I grew up in Texas and we didn't have
any dolls that looked like us at all, and I
was big on playing with my dolls, and I knew
about the Barbie Tribute collection, and I was so excited
(24:41):
when they made Shonda Rhimes a Barbie doll, and I
was just loving that and mister Copeland. But then when
they called to say they wanted to make me one,
I just was so touched because I knew this had
more to do with young people than anybody. Although all
of my older friends to buying them up, child to
(25:01):
buy them up, but the kids. I showed this doll
to some of the students in my school. I actually
videotaped it. It was so precious. They were so proud
of it. They all wanted it. It looks like them,
somebody that looks like them, that is dancing, that's you know.
And so we worked on what she was going to
look like and how she was going to dress. And
(25:24):
I said, let's dress her like fame, because that's your idea. Amazing,
Let's do fame. And I used to wear these pants
designer Giovanni Demura. I don't know where he is now,
but I had those pants in every color. I went
around the world, and I'm just excited about it, and
(25:46):
everybody's excited about this. Yeah, it puts me in a
one more realm of history that is very humbling. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Another image of black excellent. Yeah, You've created a lot
of them. So I'll be wondering what's your measure for
authentic representation today?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
You know, I don't know if I ever measure it.
I experience it and it speaks to me or it doesn't.
I mean that movie centers absolutely ooh, it said so
many things. But when Ryan Coogler took that dance floor
(26:33):
and went in and out of time, you know, I
wanted to go and be that boy's mama, wanted to
go over there and just love him. Get over here,
come over here. He honored all of us doing that.
That was breathtaking. So it's coming in different waves. Or
(26:55):
when I see the the artwork of the kids that
I see, or you know, black excellence is something that's
on the rise, and it's just gonna get stronger. Now.
The challenges we have is gonna make us stronger, not
gonna shut us down.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I agree. I have a strange sense of optimism about
all of this. I do, I really do.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
I think you're right that you're here, that you all
are here, and you are speaking every day. You have
millions of people, millions of people's attention. You have a
platform to plow through a lot of bs and you
do on a daily basis, And so we are grateful
that you're here and you're gonna be here.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I gotta ask you know this week, this week coming
up is homecoming week, right. A different world was the
reason why I went to HBCU. I got to see it.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I seen what it was. So I have to ask, she.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Is not gonna teach you a one two one two
to go at the.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Home different world off of what college?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
What college?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
This is every about it?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Okay, So let me say this. A different world existed
for a year before I got there, and I was
brought in by the creative of the executives to come
and see what was wrong and fix it. And I
did because I had that HBCU experience, which none of
the people there had. I went to Howard University.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Sorry, and Howard University.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I'm sorry for both of y'all because university is where.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Sorry, but Hampton is great.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
But you know, Howard, we were the school, the first
school to take over the a building the school because
we were demanding black studies. We pulled up the gate
and threw it on the dean's desk. You at Brown
let us. I was had my big afrochi and I
(28:55):
was all up in there to us later. You know,
we didn't think about dying and nothing like that. The
parents were sending us orange juice and boiled eggs and
begging us to come out. We're gonna come out when
we get where we were. Then what how many months
later Kent State did that and four kids were killed
(29:15):
by the National Guard. What the hell we knew? Say
it loud, black and I'm proud was our anthem. We
had Mary McKee bo coming, We had Stokely Carmichael named them.
They all came to Howard. We were in Washington, d C. Wow.
(29:36):
So coming into a different world, we could no longer
do shows about people walking around holding eggs. We had
to do shows that were culturally relevant, socially responsible, and
stilled a lot of fun. And we did that and
(29:56):
so Susan fails Hill. She is one of the most
incredible writers on this planet. She was the showrunner with
a real book of all when we did La Riats,
Mammy Dearess, all those shows that are so memorable, it
starts with the writing and Susan and who else was
(30:18):
in that writing room. Gina Prince bythewood, Reggie bythewood, Gina
Prince is getting rid of child y'all getting rid of
woman King was one thing, honey, Yes, but she is
the director of the Children of Blood and Bone. This book.
I don't know if you know about it, but actually
Kobe Bryant gave me this book before he died. He said, Debbie,
(30:39):
you gotta read this. They were all in the writer's room,
along with Yvette Lee Browser who you know she is
other There was so much talent and energy and she
h together, we just engaged. And I was always in
the principal's office. I say, I was always called into
(30:59):
the network. Really, oh god, oh my god, y'all have
no idea what I had to go through. And still
and still what were their upsets? Why were they calling you? Oh,
because you.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Took it from a sitcom to a social movement?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know, because we did the first show
about AIDS, right Whooping Goldberg. We knew whoo people was
gonna win that Oscar. She's been my friend forever. I said, Whoopy,
would you come Debbie? You know I'm there. She came.
I had her. They didn't care. I said, AIDS is
(31:32):
killing our people, your people, everybody. We need to do this.
And they were going to strike that show down. Bill
Cosby stood up and said, all right, we might not
have advertisers, but you're gonna get to do the show.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
He stood up single handedly and made it happen. So
doing shows about date rape or you know, I was
just always called into the office. Why did we have
to do Why did I said, Chad, we can't just
talk about you know, somebody bumping in the corner. We're
gonna do some of that too.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
We'll give you the courage to continue to make those
changes because a lot of people would conform, right, A
lot of people would see the networks complaining and saying
you're gonna lose sponsors and be like, Okay, I have
them dancing with you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, But I had an army at my back. Susan
Fails was right there ahead writing I had but cast
we you know, I gave them a voice. That was
part of what I did because sometimes in Hollywood when
I was first starting, the writers were like gods and
the actors are like Okay, you just do what I
(32:43):
tell you. And that has changed because actors have to
have a voice. That's you know, Gary David Goldberg, who
did Family Ties, wanted me to take a big seat
at that show when I chose a different world. But
I had worked with him in Michael J. Fox. And
what I loved about Gary David Goldberg after every table reading,
(33:05):
he opened the floor to the actors with them sitting
there with the writers, what did you think? What are
your ideas? That's a real collaboration that was not happening
and we made it happen. And you know, God bless
the whole staff, crew, actors, writers, it was. It's not
(33:29):
just me, it was all of us.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So what's your process for I guess telling hard truths,
you know, without losing I guess the entertainment value of
it all because I know you're directing the reboot too.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I think I saw.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, I've been working with the reboot on Netflix and
there are some changes there that we're trying to make.
You see where it goes? Well, what is your question?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
How do you tell the hard truths? How do you
tell hard truths and still keep it entertaining?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Basically because that's the way the world is. In the
middle of all this, you'll find something to laugh about.
In the middle of this, you'll see somebody you want
to kiss. Yeah, that riot is happening, but ooh baby,
look at that boy over there. Who is that? You know,
real life doesn't stop because of it will stop you.
(34:18):
It makes you think and have to talk and address
but it goes on.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Miss Debbie Allen has to leave as well too.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Guys, Yes, okay, you got last I do have a
last one, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Like Fame showed what art could be, right and a
Different World showed what education could be. How do you
think your work has shaped how young people now see
the intersection between art and intellect and activism.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
You know, there's such a good question. And I appreciate
that question because because Netflix just rebooted A Different World
the original on and a lot of people are talking
to me and asking me. But the mind of young people,
the curiosity is what you want. You want them to
be curious. And I think when they see these shows,
(35:06):
when they see me and I make myself accessible, they
feel like they could do something too. That is really
that's what it's about. They could do something to do.
I'm still learning. I'm still at this ripe old age.
I'm getting ready to direct August Wilson's Joe Turner's Coming
Gone on Broadway in the spring, and I am in
(35:28):
school because you can't come up there. It's like you
can't direct Shakespeare if you don't understand the language the period.
I am up in the August Wilson school of thought. Deep, deep,
deep deep. So by the time we open in April,
that show is going to be amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
But oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Who is going to be a child? Ticks to go
on sale November fifth. I have to say that out loud.
Brian Morland, who actually produced Othello Denzel's Othellos, is our producer.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
I'm just saying, I'm still in school. So I'm putting
together a whole pack of information about nineteen eleven. What
was happening, what was the music? Who's president? What's happening
in Europe? You got to know all of these things.
What was happening not to in Pittsburgh. Where were we
with the Great migration? Where are we with emancipation? Where
(36:23):
are we legally with civil rights? You got to do
the work, and I am still doing the work.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
Mss Debellen, have you ever taught a proper twerk? I
just want to know. I don't know through all your lessons. No,
you need help through all your lessons. I just want
to know, like, have you ever taught twurkage ever?
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Well, you know, I don't know if I've taught it,
but my husband is always on me to stop doing it.
That's all.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, even married so long.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Okay, I want me to do it in public. I
could do it in the bedroom, yes, ma'am. Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Let me appreciate you for joining us. If you're out
and about, make sure you pick up her Barbie doll.
Also donate to the school and thank you so much.
And please don't be a stranger. Anytime you in the city,
pull up on us.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
I'll be coming back here to direct that player. I
come and visit.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You'll think I'm always I will definitely be there.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
It's miss Debbie Allen. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning,
every day, Breakfast Club.
Every day a waygo click your ass up the Breakfast Club,
finish with y'all done morning.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Everybody's DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are
the Breakfast Club. Lonla Roses here as well. And we
got a special guest in the building, a legendary guest,
the legend. Some guests are special, some a legendary and iconic.
That's right, and we have the iconic, the legendary, Miss
Debbie Allen.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome morning, thank.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
You, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
How are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I feel really good. I'm on New York Time, I'm
on New York Air. I'm feeling good to be in
New York. I like I missed the city. Every time
I come. There's so much happening. Saturday morning, I woke
up and there was this big protest outside the whole.
I heard all this noise and I looked down and
there was like half a million people in Times Square.
(00:51):
And then I went to new restaurants and saw new shows,
saw two new shows.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I love New York absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah. Condolences too on the loss.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Of your mother, as I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Absolutely, and I was I was thinking about you when
you was coming in. Man, because you know, you've built
such a legacy, you know, Broadway, television and film. When
you think about the word legacy, now, does it mean
what you've done.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Or who you've helped? Do it? After you?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Oh, well, you know what, I would have to say,
who I'm helping, because that's real legacy. You know, I
have so many hundreds of kids that I'm educating at
the dance school and across around the world with the
you know, the internet has allowed us to be international
(01:45):
bink of you know, we can have these ig classes. Yeah,
Legacy I think has to do with the future and
what see if you're planning, what path you have lit
that helps people find their way.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
When you started dancing into drama, did you know that
that was going to be your career? Did you know
that was that? Because even to this day, you know,
I have kids, I was telling you that dance, and
I always think to myself, well, what does dance take
them to? But then when I look at your career,
I'm like, there's no, there's so many possibilities. Did you
ever think that that was going to be a career.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I was determined at four years old that that was
going to be my career. Because we were watching television
and we would watch musicals would come on every Saturday morning,
and I so wanted to replace that Shirley Temple, honey.
I wanted that to be me going up and down
those steps with Bill Robinson and all those glorious musical films.
(02:39):
I saw myself in that world. And then it was
a challenge to get the training in the segregated South
where I grew up. But Mom was always very resourceful
and she found ways. And yeah, I think children can
see themselves, and this is why you have to make
it possible for them by letting them see other things.
(03:02):
I remember when Mom wouldn't let me go to the
circus because she wanted me to go and see this
East Indian dance company, and I was kicking and screaming,
I want to see those clowns and those lions. But
when I saw that dance company, I saw a whole
nother language of dance that I didn't know had not seen.
I was probably eight years old. But this is why
(03:24):
we have to expose our children to more, which is
why right now we need more and more and more education,
more cultural problem programs for children, art programs, and just
take them on those field trips to take them to
see art exhibits, take them to see dance concerts or
music concerts or you know, little plays at the why
(03:48):
anything that is outside of the box of the video
game shots of it all and television. Mom used to
make us think that the television was broke, so we
would take our butts out.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's what makes it so important to debiela Dance Academy.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Right, congratulations, it is quite a landmark.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Let's let's talk about what that means, because, as I
was saying, when I'm out there on the road with
my daughters, a lot of times we don't see too
many people that look like us. Yeah, and a lot
of that is not because we can't dance. It's because
we can't afford it. The traveling, the costumes, the privates,
it's it's a lot. And I didn't realize until I
jumped in and my wife bead like, we need another check.
(04:30):
I'm like, another check, but it's so expensive. So talk
about the importance of opening that school.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Will The Debbiellan Dance Academy is in cultural Oases that
now has a middle school, has programs for boys, elders,
cancer patients, but for young people. It is designed to
be an open door for whoever it is that has
the spirit of the dance and come through that door
and find the class and I will get a program
(04:56):
for you. I basically said no to competent I've been
asked year after year after year, and I don't do
them because I want children to compete with themselves. I
want them to be in the classroom. I want them
to be in the dance studio and see where am I?
Did I do that turn? Can I balance? Can I
(05:17):
do the passe? Can I you know, what is it
that I'm learning? Can I do that tap? Break? And
I think it's great, Like you say, the competition world
is a great experience. It teaches children performance and a
lot of things and does cost a lot of money,
and so it would be not possible for so many
(05:37):
of us. It's just not possible. So where I'm living,
I am raising money every minute of my waking life
to give more opportunity to the kids. I mean, right
now is very difficult with all the foolishness is going
on in Washington, the foolishness is going on with the
nonprofit world. I mean, you can't even write a grant
(05:59):
now and say you're you know, focused on brown and
black children. You can't even say that. You can't say
you're dealing with disabled you can't. I mean, there's so
many this is ridiculous. So it means that we're going
to just become more grassroots the way we were in
the fifties hunting, because that's what it was. It was
(06:20):
you have to get your community together, and there's a
big community of diverse people who want to see the
arts prevail and programs prevail because that's the future. What
The creativity that it takes to create a vallet like
revelations is the same creativity that will cure cancer. It's
(06:42):
the same part of your brain that we are developing. Creativity.
You have to think outside the box to figure these
things out and to come to some you know, understanding
or level of accomplishments. And to me, creativity is the
closest you can be to God is to be creative.
So the Debbie all and Dans Academy is a real
(07:04):
purpose in my life and my husband, Norman Nixon's life,
my daughter's life, my son, the whole community. We have
a community of parents and people who love us in
the nationwide because we have to, you know, throw that
tin cup out there everywhere. I mean, if I could
say a million people just send me two dollars, it
(07:25):
would help us get through a whole year of programming
an opportunity. We have a program called we have a
program called Sons of Data, and that's for the boys.
I have more boys in my school than any school
I bet in America. I don't make them with the tights.
(07:47):
They can come to ballet class in their shorts or
the sweatpants, but they are there. I mean, I got
thirty boys, and there's a program Sons of Data that
offers a scholarship for them. If all they have to
do is say I want raise the hand, I want
to come wow, and then they're there. David Coburn has
been very supportive of this program, but it needs to expand.
(08:10):
I just I just don't have enough hours in the
day to do all that I know I could do,
and I just have to keep working. And I have
a great team that is helping me.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now while we're here. Just tell them how they can donate,
because people listening right now, and you talk about the school.
If somebody wants to donate that two dollars, Like you said,
a million people, how can they donate?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
If you go on the Debbie Allen Dance Academy dot com,
you'll see there's a program called Rhythm of Giving. Or
you can just see how to get in touch with
Deanan Bartello, or just how to drop through you know,
PayPal or what gotcha you might want to do.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You know, it's interesting because you've been directing and choreographing
for decades. How do you keep your art evolving when
the culture itself always keeps shifting so fast.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Well, that's what's exciting, because I'm with these young people
all the time, and there's a new language every you know,
a couple of years that you have to you know,
I mean, the Afro beat right now is everything I was.
I have been Mariah Carey's creative director many times, and
(09:17):
last year when I worked with Jenna Tompkins to do
her show, I introduced the style of dance, the Afro Beat,
into the choreography and it was amazing to do Joy
to the world with that style of dance. The dancers
were on a respiraated child with the first number, because
that afro beat is serious. Yeah, it's fast, but it
(09:42):
takes a lot of energy to do it, and they
loved it. So that's what's beautiful. The nature of the
universe has changed, and anybody that doesn't understand that, well, sorry, what.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Do you teach or how do you teach the artist
you work with, like a Mariah Carey or even like
a you've been working with her for some time too,
about longevity and as things change, because things will change, like,
how do you teach them how to you know relevance
and impact?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Like what the career you have? Well, I don't think
I have to teach Mariah Carey about longevity. I mean,
she's been the song bird yeah for so long, and
she's got a new album out. She is one of
these creative geniuses who writes her music and I've never
gone into a production where she didn't have an idea
(10:31):
about what she thinks it is. So I don't know
if that's I mean you're asking me about.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
I guess it's like the mentorship because even the way
that people look at you and how you handle just
anything you deal with and throughout your career, there's a
lot coming your way because of who you are. Mariah
Carey has a lot coming her way every day. I
guess I'm asking what the mentorship between you and these
women and men that you're working with that are these
big stars, What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
It's very personal, It's very personal. I think part of
what I bring wherever I'm working is a motherhood, embrace,
push knowledge, idea. I mean, I just said a lot
of things that I don't know if you got all that.
(11:18):
But when people work with me, they know that I
come with a huge experience in many things, and sometimes
it's very intimidating to people. I've had some battles that
you would be surprised, and I think it has a
lot to do with my expertise and ability. I'm an
(11:42):
executive producing director of Gray's Anatomy. We're in season twenty two.
We know Shonda Rhimes put me there to be an
integral part of keeping that show in energetic and moving,
and I hire all the directors. I hire new directors.
Felicia Shaw just became a director on Gray's and Nat
(12:07):
yeah she's a new one. Yeah, we kind of like her.
But there to work with incredible showrun and make Marinus
who you know, I read every outline. I'm part of
the casting you know, and I've worked with dps who
are brilliant. I produced the movie Amista with Steven Spielberg,
(12:31):
which will always be a big, big accomplishment for all
of us. It's not just me. For all of us
to get that movie made, you'd be hard pressed to
do it today the way things are going. But I
have such a wealth of experience. That is a big
thing that I bring, So I see things very quickly.
(12:52):
I can make decisions very quickly. You know, I'm here
doing auditions for Joe Turner's Coming Gone, and I'm I'm
seeing such wonderful new talent that I had not known before.
But even in that process, I can see immediately this
one has the potential. This one is talented, but not
(13:13):
right for this part. I mean, it's just experience.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I love people who got intention. You know, you said
at four years old you knew you wanted to do dance.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, how did that lead to something like fame?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Well, because I stayed the course and I went and
studied and did the work. I've been taking dance class
my whole life. I was here at the New York
School of Ballet Richard Thomas, John Boy on the walterins
his dad and mom had the best ballet school here
in New York, the New York School of Ballet. And
I was like a little, you know, urchin trucking around
(13:50):
the streets and bought my dance card. And in my class,
I'd look up and Rudolph new Rev would be in
the class, or Mikhayel Barishnikov would be in a class,
Margot Fontang. These are icons in the world of ballet.
And then right across town is Alvin Alely wow, Alvin
(14:13):
Ale you know you, I don't know. I think my
effort has proven successful because I've always done the work.
When you come up in the dance world, it's like
being an athlete. It's why Kobe Bryant and I were friends.
He loved dance and we had a very good relationship.
You train, train, train, train, train. You can't shoot enough,
(14:36):
you can't practice enough, you know, jump shots, whatever they're practiced.
You know those drills that they do to stay in shape.
You have to do the work. And this is something
young people really need right now to understand that you
don't get to get there and stay if you haven't
done the work. Mister Copeland, Oh my god, mister Copeland,
(15:00):
and you know, she's retiring tomorrow night from the American
Ballet Theater. Wow. I would be on stage with her.
She invited me to be on stage with her. But
this is not an ending, but a beginning of what
else she's gonna do. Yeah, but she trained train train,
train train. You know, I've had parents come in you
(15:20):
you your daughter's and dance, and I've had parents say, well,
my daughter, you know, she just miss Allen. She just
feels like, you know, she's doing the same thing all
the time. I said, because she needs to. She has
to learn how to point that foot turning out. I say,
damn it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
You said you and Kobe were friends. How did y'all
get tight? How did y'all get so cool?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, Kobe actually grew up in Italy. Fame was one
of the biggest shows internationally Italy. I still can't walk
down the street, it was that popular. So I came
to a Laker game and he was on the court.
He looked at me and he was like ah, And
I was like I'm looking at him, like oh wow.
(16:05):
And then that admiration was there. And then years later
he actually was interested in learning how to tap dance. Well,
we didn't get to that. But we were going to
get to that. And it was Michael Jackson's death that
really kind of brought us closer because Michael was somebody
(16:28):
that I was very close to. And I was talking
about Michael on television as saying he was he practiced practices.
I said, he was like Kobe Bryant. I said that
in an interview, and then Kobe called me, said, Debbie,
Michael and I were friends. I'll say what. He and
Michael had become friends, and so we started talking and
(16:53):
he was writing these incredible books, and we were making
plans to turn one of his books into the most
incredible Broadway show. We were making plans. He had all
universe that he was creating with animators and composers, and
he brought me in because he respected what I do
(17:16):
and what we could do together. And when we were
building the Debi Allan Dance Academy, which is now the
Rhymes Performing Arts Center, because Shonda Rhymes gifted us the building,
which was amazing, amazing, but we had to raise a
lot of money to build it, and so we took
a meeting and Kobe was the first one. He was
(17:39):
He put a million dollars towards building the DeBie Allen
Dance Academy.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And now we have a wall called the Kobe Bryant
Wall of Light that has all the donors and his
name at the top of that. And so we had
a lot of plans and he loved dance. You know,
it's being an athlete to be a dancer. So Kobe Bryant,
(18:05):
Wallace Sandenberg, Barry Gordy, Shonda Rhimes, the Ford Foundation, they've
been our big angels.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Outside of the discipline that you just talked about and
doing the work, what else did your role as Lydia
and Fame teach you that like served you so well
for the rest of your career.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Well, I actually got an opportunity to create these dances,
and as a child, I was watching them in the movies.
I was watching the movie. Now I was able to
be in charge of what the camera was doing, and
I had all of these ideas from when I was
four years old and so on Fame, I worked with
(18:46):
one of the old jacks, Bill Spencer. He had been
the a camera operator on all those big MGM musicals
and he was just say, oh, kid, we can't do this,
we can't do that. I said why Bill, And then
if he couldn't give me an answer, then he would
go figure it out. So we became friends. So fame
was like going to graduate school. It was like getting
(19:07):
a PhD in directing because it was new. Nobody was
there to tell us or to tell me how to
make this work week to week to week. I had
to figure it out. And then one day he took
me in the archives of MGM. Because I used to
write dance notes so people would understand where we it
(19:28):
would say the music, how long it is, what the
action was with the choreo, what the camera shot is.
He took me in the archives of the MGM musicals
from back in the day and showed me that's what
they did to and nobody taught me. It was just
a way to communicate. So fame really set me up
(19:51):
to do everything that I'm doing right now all the way.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Now, I've heard you say dance is storytelling with the body. Yeah, damn.
Expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Well, you know, in the dance where you don't have words,
you're not singing, you're through your physical being expressing what
is the story? You're expressing love, you're expressing joy, anger,
it's I think the most ancient of all art forms
is dance because when you look at ancient civilizations before
(20:27):
they could write or could know the language, they were
stamping on the ground for rain, for harvest, birth movement,
that proclaiming your existence on this earth. That dance, and
it goes back to Mother Africa where we were stamping
(20:48):
on that ground. I mean, that's the beginning. That's the beginning.
That's the one. That's what Jason Samuel Smith, it is
the one.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, it was it about the movement of the perfection?
Is the movement of perfection?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
All of that? But it's that spirit. See the spirit
in you is what makes you move like that. That
is something that's in your blood memory. That's your DNA speaking.
That's the universe telling you what you already know. It's community,
it's that call and response. Yeah, it's there. We all
(21:33):
have it. We all have it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Who was the most difficult person to teach how to dance?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
That was like they just don't.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Have it now, you know, I can't say people you
know that would be so.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Let's change it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Who was the hardest to teach because they just were
so good and needed to be pushed to the next level.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Then, Oh, I've had students, some that you might not know.
Are you talking about people that I work with professional, Well,
let me put it this way. I worked with Sammy
Davids Junior. He did a special with me. I've never
seen anybody like him. I could show him something one time,
(22:13):
and he did it. He was incredible. So it was
difficult to do much because he'd be like, okay, kid,
what else you got? All right, Sammy, I'm done now.
I think I'm good. It was a challenge for me
to work with him.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You don't get discussed enough. I don't feel like Sammy
gets discussed enough.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
You know, there's an effort to do plays and movies
about him. I know Lena Waite as one she's working on,
and I'm excited that she's thinking about making it into
a show I did. We were working on a Broadway
show called Sammy with the original people that did all
his music and everything, and I did a workshop of
(22:56):
this years ago. This might have been Oh my god,
it had to be almost twenty years ago. And in
that workshop everybody came because it was about Sammy. We
raised a million dollars that day to do the show,
and it didn't go forward because the people that were
in charge of the script just couldn't understand that we
(23:19):
needed to whittle it down. It was you know, when
you have a life story that that full. I mean,
Josephine Baker was a mini series. Yeah, or either you
have to figure out what part of their life are
you going to tell? Because I worked with Bob Fosse
and Sweet Charita, and he told me and I believed
him and I learned that from him. Kid, if anything
(23:40):
over three hours is too long, too long, baby, you know.
But Sammy is someone that he's one of the most
legendary and incredible artists to ever step on a stage.
As a child, you can look at that film of
him when he's five exists. He was a deer man
(24:04):
who had quite a struggle, quite a struggle in his lifetime.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Barbie is honoring you with your own tribute doll. What
went through your mind when you first got that call.
I'm assuming that you're getting your own Barbie doll.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I know it was like getting an Oscar. It was like, yeah,
because I grew up in Texas and we didn't have
any dolls that looked like us at all, and I
was big on playing with my dolls, and I knew
about the Barbie Tribute collection, and I was so excited
(24:41):
when they made Shonda Rhimes a Barbie doll, and I
was just loving that and mister Copeland. But then when
they called to say they wanted to make me one,
I just was so touched because I knew this had
more to do with young people than anybody. Although all
of my older friends to buying them up, child to
(25:01):
buy them up, but the kids. I showed this doll
to some of the students in my school. I actually
videotaped it. It was so precious. They were so proud
of it. They all wanted it. It looks like them,
somebody that looks like them, that is dancing, that's you know.
And so we worked on what she was going to
look like and how she was going to dress. And
(25:24):
I said, let's dress her like fame, because that's your idea. Amazing,
Let's do fame. And I used to wear these pants
designer Giovanni Demura. I don't know where he is now,
but I had those pants in every color. I went
around the world, and I'm just excited about it, and
(25:46):
everybody's excited about this. Yeah, it puts me in a
one more realm of history that is very humbling. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Another image of black excellent. Yeah, You've created a lot
of them. So I'll be wondering what's your measure for
authentic representation today?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
You know, I don't know if I ever measure it.
I experience it and it speaks to me or it doesn't.
I mean that movie centers absolutely ooh, it said so
many things. But when Ryan Coogler took that dance floor
(26:33):
and went in and out of time, you know, I
wanted to go and be that boy's mama, wanted to
go over there and just love him. Get over here,
come over here. He honored all of us doing that.
That was breathtaking. So it's coming in different waves. Or
(26:55):
when I see the the artwork of the kids that
I see, or you know, black excellence is something that's
on the rise, and it's just gonna get stronger. Now.
The challenges we have is gonna make us stronger, not
gonna shut us down.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I agree. I have a strange sense of optimism about
all of this. I do, I really do.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
I think you're right that you're here, that you all
are here, and you are speaking every day. You have
millions of people, millions of people's attention. You have a
platform to plow through a lot of bs and you
do on a daily basis, And so we are grateful
that you're here and you're gonna be here.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I gotta ask you know this week, this week coming
up is homecoming week, right. A different world was the
reason why I went to HBCU. I got to see it.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I seen what it was. So I have to ask, she.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Is not gonna teach you a one two one two
to go at the.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Home different world off of what college?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
What college?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
This is every about it?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Okay, So let me say this. A different world existed
for a year before I got there, and I was
brought in by the creative of the executives to come
and see what was wrong and fix it. And I
did because I had that HBCU experience, which none of
the people there had. I went to Howard University.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Sorry, and Howard University.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I'm sorry for both of y'all because university is where.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Sorry, but Hampton is great.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
But you know, Howard, we were the school, the first
school to take over the a building the school because
we were demanding black studies. We pulled up the gate
and threw it on the dean's desk. You at Brown
let us. I was had my big afrochi and I
(28:55):
was all up in there to us later. You know,
we didn't think about dying and nothing like that. The
parents were sending us orange juice and boiled eggs and
begging us to come out. We're gonna come out when
we get where we were. Then what how many months
later Kent State did that and four kids were killed
(29:15):
by the National Guard. What the hell we knew? Say
it loud, black and I'm proud was our anthem. We
had Mary McKee bo coming, We had Stokely Carmichael named them.
They all came to Howard. We were in Washington, d C. Wow.
(29:36):
So coming into a different world, we could no longer
do shows about people walking around holding eggs. We had
to do shows that were culturally relevant, socially responsible, and
stilled a lot of fun. And we did that and
(29:56):
so Susan fails Hill. She is one of the most
incredible writers on this planet. She was the showrunner with
a real book of all when we did La Riats,
Mammy Dearess, all those shows that are so memorable, it
starts with the writing and Susan and who else was
(30:18):
in that writing room. Gina Prince bythewood, Reggie bythewood, Gina
Prince is getting rid of child y'all getting rid of
woman King was one thing, honey, Yes, but she is
the director of the Children of Blood and Bone. This book.
I don't know if you know about it, but actually
Kobe Bryant gave me this book before he died. He said, Debbie,
(30:39):
you gotta read this. They were all in the writer's room,
along with Yvette Lee Browser who you know she is
other There was so much talent and energy and she
h together, we just engaged. And I was always in
the principal's office. I say, I was always called into
(30:59):
the network. Really, oh god, oh my god, y'all have
no idea what I had to go through. And still
and still what were their upsets? Why were they calling you? Oh,
because you.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Took it from a sitcom to a social movement?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know, because we did the first show
about AIDS, right Whooping Goldberg. We knew whoo people was
gonna win that Oscar. She's been my friend forever. I said, Whoopy,
would you come Debbie? You know I'm there. She came.
I had her. They didn't care. I said, AIDS is
(31:32):
killing our people, your people, everybody. We need to do this.
And they were going to strike that show down. Bill
Cosby stood up and said, all right, we might not
have advertisers, but you're gonna get to do the show.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
He stood up single handedly and made it happen. So
doing shows about date rape or you know, I was
just always called into the office. Why did we have
to do Why did I said, Chad, we can't just
talk about you know, somebody bumping in the corner. We're
gonna do some of that too.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
We'll give you the courage to continue to make those
changes because a lot of people would conform, right, A
lot of people would see the networks complaining and saying
you're gonna lose sponsors and be like, Okay, I have
them dancing with you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, But I had an army at my back. Susan
Fails was right there ahead writing I had but cast
we you know, I gave them a voice. That was
part of what I did because sometimes in Hollywood when
I was first starting, the writers were like gods and
the actors are like Okay, you just do what I
(32:43):
tell you. And that has changed because actors have to
have a voice. That's you know, Gary David Goldberg, who
did Family Ties, wanted me to take a big seat
at that show when I chose a different world. But
I had worked with him in Michael J. Fox. And
what I loved about Gary David Goldberg after every table reading,
(33:05):
he opened the floor to the actors with them sitting
there with the writers, what did you think? What are
your ideas? That's a real collaboration that was not happening
and we made it happen. And you know, God bless
the whole staff, crew, actors, writers, it was. It's not
(33:29):
just me, it was all of us.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So what's your process for I guess telling hard truths,
you know, without losing I guess the entertainment value of
it all because I know you're directing the reboot too.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I think I saw.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, I've been working with the reboot on Netflix and
there are some changes there that we're trying to make.
You see where it goes? Well, what is your question?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
How do you tell the hard truths? How do you
tell hard truths and still keep it entertaining?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Basically because that's the way the world is. In the
middle of all this, you'll find something to laugh about.
In the middle of this, you'll see somebody you want
to kiss. Yeah, that riot is happening, but ooh baby,
look at that boy over there. Who is that? You know,
real life doesn't stop because of it will stop you.
(34:18):
It makes you think and have to talk and address
but it goes on.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Miss Debbie Allen has to leave as well too.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Guys, Yes, okay, you got last I do have a
last one, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Like Fame showed what art could be, right and a
Different World showed what education could be. How do you
think your work has shaped how young people now see
the intersection between art and intellect and activism.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
You know, there's such a good question. And I appreciate
that question because because Netflix just rebooted A Different World
the original on and a lot of people are talking
to me and asking me. But the mind of young people,
the curiosity is what you want. You want them to
be curious. And I think when they see these shows,
(35:06):
when they see me and I make myself accessible, they
feel like they could do something too. That is really
that's what it's about. They could do something to do.
I'm still learning. I'm still at this ripe old age.
I'm getting ready to direct August Wilson's Joe Turner's Coming
Gone on Broadway in the spring, and I am in
(35:28):
school because you can't come up there. It's like you
can't direct Shakespeare if you don't understand the language the period.
I am up in the August Wilson school of thought. Deep, deep,
deep deep. So by the time we open in April,
that show is going to be amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
But oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Who is going to be a child? Ticks to go
on sale November fifth. I have to say that out loud.
Brian Morland, who actually produced Othello Denzel's Othellos, is our producer.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
I'm just saying, I'm still in school. So I'm putting
together a whole pack of information about nineteen eleven. What
was happening, what was the music? Who's president? What's happening
in Europe? You got to know all of these things.
What was happening not to in Pittsburgh. Where were we
with the Great migration? Where are we with emancipation? Where
(36:23):
are we legally with civil rights? You got to do
the work, and I am still doing the work.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
Mss Debellen, have you ever taught a proper twerk? I
just want to know. I don't know through all your lessons. No,
you need help through all your lessons. I just want
to know, like, have you ever taught twurkage ever?
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Well, you know, I don't know if I've taught it,
but my husband is always on me to stop doing it.
That's all.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, even married so long.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Okay, I want me to do it in public. I
could do it in the bedroom, yes, ma'am. Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Let me appreciate you for joining us. If you're out
and about, make sure you pick up her Barbie doll.
Also donate to the school and thank you so much.
And please don't be a stranger. Anytime you in the city,
pull up on us.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
I'll be coming back here to direct that player. I
come and visit.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You'll think I'm always I will definitely be there.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
It's miss Debbie Allen. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning,
every day, Breakfast Club.
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