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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that answer up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We
are the Breakfast Club. He got some special guest joining
us this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We have Kerrie Washington and Delroy Lindo.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Welcome, Thank you, Good morning to you both.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
Carrie, first and foremost, How are you you still catching
COVID like a twenty twenty right?
Speaker 6 (00:27):
I am, I'm back in the twenty twenty era. God
help us. I'm doing okay. I'm getting better one day
at a time. But thank you for being able to
do this virtually because I love our show and I
want to be able to talk about our show and
not get anybody else sick.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That's Delroy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
How you doing, brother, I'm doing well. I'm doing very well.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Thank you, go well man s Luthor You Delroy the
legend you've been. You've been acting for almost fifty years.
I haven't been fifty.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Uh I lose track, but somewhere around there. Yeah, what
does that mean to you? What does it mean to me?
You know what I'm really I feel fortunate that I'm
still working to be honest man knock on wood and
still doing work that people seem interested in that feels
real good, and this feels good being involved with a
project like this, isn't that right?
Speaker 6 (01:15):
In his Washington I was just thinking, we're the lucky ones,
you know that he's still working because he is. To me,
Delwar is one of our national treasures. He's like, he's
an og He's on my mount rushmore of acting. So
that he's still doing it is so generous really, because
he could be like, I'm good, I've brought my a game.
(01:38):
Everybody knows how good I am. But he's still like
invested in everything he does. He makes better because he's
in it. So we're blessed that he's.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Still working and he just brings us joy, not because
of his you know craft. You know, whenever we get
a glimpse of that meme where he's dancing in the
club in Five Bloods, that didn't look like acting to
me though, like he was just having a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I like the energy, So you know what, that's that's
a that's a good example of something having caught on.
I had that I had no idea about, you know,
but it's it's it's a terrific kind of example of
the work kind of reaching a broader audience. The fact
that it gets on to social media like that becomes
(02:19):
like a thing in itself, which is which is an
added an added bonus to UH to being an actor
and working because you know, when we're doing that scene,
I didn't think about that. I didn't think that it
was going to be on social media like that. So
it's it's good.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
How many times you had to do that take?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know what? We did it maybe twice because Spike
thought about it in the moment. It was literally, we're
going to do no no, no. Yeah, that was not
that was not scripted, right. Wow, we were in the club.
We were doing another scene in the club. He said,
let's just do this, and I think we did it twice. Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Yeah, who before we will get in the un prison
but before who, lets you know that that was going
so viral and still goes viral.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
My son okay, my son and I started getting you know,
look at this, look at this, look at this, but
I I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Season two of Unprisoned is out now on Hulu. For
people who've never seen, break down what Unprisoned is about.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Start from season one.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Carrie, you want to take that. I mean, I'm I'm
not only because I'm happy to talk about it, but
I want Carry to talk about it just because my
involvement with this. The reason I want Carry to talk
about it is because Carrie is the one who who
brought me into this project. And as I said last night,
(03:44):
I don't know if you heard this Carrie, but her leadership,
her relationship to this project, and because she has a
particular relationship to the project, she has a relationship to
everybody involved in the project. And she was the one
(04:05):
who reached out to me initially to say will you
come do this? So you know, it sits in her
heart in a way that I mean, I want her
to talk about it because she's partially responsible for getting
the thing off the ground. So you take it, Miss Washington, sir.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
I mean, one of the things I love about being
a producer is that I get to be a part
of work like this with people that I so admire
and telling stories that I think matter. So this show
is inspired by the life of a woman named Tracy
McMillan whose dad was in and out of prison her
whole life, and it's really about this kind of intergenerational
(04:47):
relationship between a dad, his daughter, and his grandson, and
when the dad comes out of prison, he comes to
live with them and kind of how the three of
them figure out how to coexist. So it's about what
it's like to be a returning citizen, you know, when
you're leaving the system and trying to re enter into
(05:08):
the world. But it's also about what it means to
love a returning citizen and be in a family that's
grappling with how we are impacted by this so called
justice system. And it's so meaningful to me because there's
so many of us who have been impacted by the system,
who have family members who've been incarcerated or been incarcerated ourselves.
(05:32):
I mean, we did. We were at a film festival
last year when the show first aired, and we did
four sit down interviews, and three out of four of
the journalists had a parent who had been incarcerated, and
they were all different races too. I mean, this story,
I'm very proud. The story is very much the story
of a black family and the particular challenges and joy
that we experience, but this is also an American story,
(05:55):
like we are all dealing with the tragedy that is
the justice system in this country and how it impacts
us and for generations. But what I love. One thing
I would say is that you wouldn't think, having said
all that, you would think it's like like a very
heavy show. But part of what made me fall in
love with this show is that it's a comedy. I mean,
it's a dramedy, but there's a lot of joy and
(06:19):
love and laughter because that's also who we are as
a people, Like we are resilient, we are survivors, and
and this character that Delaware plays, Edwin, is like such
a beautiful example of how we may have stereotypes about
who's in the system.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Or think we have stereotypes. We think we know who
those people are, and we do not. I gotta I
gotta jump in really quickly because at least Carrie, yes,
we are a black family. But one of the strengths
of this work is that we are dealing with our humanity,
and humanity transcends race, right, And I've been thinking since
(07:05):
Five Bloods. Actually I started articulating this in a lot
of the interviews that I was doing around Five Bloods.
If you think you guys know this one of the
main problems that African descended people have had since time immemorial.
Is the rejection of our humanity. That's that's that's the
(07:28):
that's the beginning, the middle, and the end of the
thing right there, that we are not considered to be
human now with a show like this, with work like this,
Yes it's a black family, but I believe that one
of the strengths of this work has to do with
the fact that we're first and foremost presenting human beings
who happen to be black, and because we're investigating the
(07:49):
foibles of that, of the of those dynamics. I think,
on what you think, Carrie, but I think it's resonated,
transcended itself beyond this is an example domination of a
black family, right and that's one of the strengths of
this work. I will tell you that last night, Carrie
at the SOD he had the premiere screening last night,
(08:13):
And this has happened to me a lot in the
in the two years we've been doing this. Sister came
up to me and said, mister Linnoy, I just want
to thank you for the work. My daddy was incarcerated
for ten years when I was a little girl, and
the notes that you all are hitting in this work
really resonate for me personally, and that's another one of
(08:36):
the strengths of this work. As far as I'm concerned
that it has, you know, peggybacking on what Carrie said,
it touches people in personal ways, and I'm not necessarily
surprised about that, but it's every time it happens, it's
an affirmation of the strength and the value of what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know, well, you talk about you know, I was
watching you talk about breaking generational curses, right, that seems
one of the things that was most important because you
touch things of family members going to jail and how
a lot of times when they come out people feel ashamed.
You talk about biracial relationships, fathers trying to get back
into their daughter and do those things. So why was
that all important? Because those are all topics in our community.
Sometimes we don't necessarily talk about outside the house a man.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
So as Carrie was speaking, she talked about the process
that is that's a live in this work of these
three individuals, myself, my daughter, and my grand my grandson
Carrie's son played by Folly. We're also and I hadn't
(09:43):
thought about this in these terms until you said it, Carrie,
we're also unpacking what it means to love, what does
love look like? Right? And when you talk about the
intergenerational blockages to that and how well, for instance black
Men as an example, how we are socialized to believe
(10:08):
we are supposed to be a certain way and our
general your generation, my gen we're all trying to interrupt that.
And this show is at the heart of that because
we're trying to figure out and you say it, Carrie
in the in the first episode of season two, that
we need to break this chain, we need to break
(10:30):
this process of this into generational pathology. We're repeating itself
over and over and over again. So there are all
kinds of aspects to this work that, yeah, speak to
the condition of being an African descented person and what
we deal with as families, as individuals. But it's human, man,
(10:52):
it's human love.
Speaker 6 (10:55):
But I loved about your question was that you said
these are that we don't necessarily talk about outside the home,
and the reason we don't is because we think we're
the only ones. And so we have this shame, right,
we have shame that causes us to keep our secrets
and not air our dirty laundry. The power of a
(11:17):
show like this is that we get to we get
to provide people with an opportunity to see themselves reflected
on a larger scale. Right, So people get to be
in their homes, but they know that they're not alone
because we're all dealing with trauma of some sort. We're
all trying to figure out how to love our kids.
We're all trying to figure out how to love our parents.
We're all trying to figure out how to free ourselves,
(11:39):
whether it's free ourselves from prison bars or free ourselves
from the limitations that other people have placed on us.
We're all on these journeys ourselves. Yes, yes, So we
get to with joy and humor. We get to kind
of say to somebody, like, here's the dirty laundry. Every
every family has it. We're all navigating it. If we
(12:02):
can put it out there and talk about it more freely,
we can actually free ourselves. That's the joy of the show.
It's like this family is drama is out for you
all to consume and take in feel less alone, and
then we all move forward together.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
And it plays that in therapy too. I was going
to say it plays that in therapy.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Like you know, we've been talking about in the last
couple of years more and more about going to therapy,
but it plays out in therapy, and one time that
was something that nobody ever talked about going therapy getting help.
So the fact that as a family I'll go together
is I thinks big as well.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Before we get to the therapy aspect, I want to
go back to the intergenerational thing because you know, carries
that something just now we don't talk about it outside
of the house because we don't talk about it inside
of the house.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And that's what I love that y'all doing the show.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Y'all are having those intergenerational conversations within the house. So
just talk to people about how important it is to
have intergenerational conversations, to not be so segregated in the home.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh man, we're we're all talking this morning, and I'm
listening to carry and I'm listening to the questions you
guys are coming up with. What's occurring to me as
it relates to your question and as it relates to
just my own life. There's a safety We get to
examine these dynamics within the construct of this television show,
(13:23):
right frankly, and partially my answer to that question is
that I get to investigate for myself, as a human
being on the planet, how these things, how intergenerational trauma
pathology has impacted me. And I get to use the
(13:47):
conduit of Edwin, the character that I'm playing, to investigate
some things that are very personal to me. As a
result of that, I come on a show like this
and we in this case, as black man, as black woman,
get to discuss these things, right, And honestly, sometimes I
(14:08):
feel I can, and I've said this before, sometimes I
feel I can be more articulate in my work addressing
certain issues than I can as a regular human being.
That's trippy, frankly, because because when I take a half
a step back and recognize that, acknowledge that, then I'm
(14:30):
faced with the challenge of Okay, man, you did this
in an acting job. Now address it for yourself outside
of the process of acting.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Right, You open up the conversation. You open up the conversation.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that's
powerful is that for me, when you watch the show,
if you watch it with loved ones, you have in
the same way that dol is saying, like he can
explore his is shoes through Edwin. You also, somebody watching
the show can explore their issues through Page my character, right,
Like you can have a conversation with your husband about
(15:11):
something that Page is going through, and it gives you
like space to kind of hide behind pages crazy because
she's a little bit neurotic and crazy, and that way
it makes it easier. I think when our store, when
the storytelling that we're exposed to is telling the truths
about all of us, then it makes everything easier to
(15:31):
talk about, whether it's in our home or outside our home.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So hold on, go ahead, carry, go ahead, go ahead,
go ahead. Okay. So another personal kind an anecdotal affirmation.
I'm in the Apple Store about I don't know, five
months ago getting a new phone. Sister comes up to
me in the Apple Store and says, thank you for unprisoned,
and she goes on to talk about the fact that
(15:55):
her daddy was was incarcerated. But then she said, I
think I told you this carry. I'm not sure my
Auntie is exactly what Kerry Washington is doing. That's my
aunt right there. Again, these personal, these personal anecdotal affirmations
that we're doing what we're doing has a particular kind
(16:19):
of value, you know, And going back to your your
original question, what I call you man, I call you Charlemagne,
call you Charlemage the God.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
What do people call you Charlemagne? That's fine, charm.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Going back to your original question, I don't know that
we saw all of the potential, Carrie, when you and
I had that very first zoom call, when you first
kind of pitched this to me, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
I begged you to come beyond the show.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I wasn't gonna put you out there like that when
we first had the conversation, we didn't necessarily know it
would have this kind of resonance and impact. But there
was one critical and I do need to We need
to include Tracy in this, right, Tracy McMillan, whose life
journey has been the inspiration for this work. They said
(17:20):
to me, little Tracy, and Carry said to me, they
wanted to break the stereotypical image that people have of
a formally incarcerated cat. Right. You think, oh, this cat's
been InCAR This cat's been in and out of prison
since his daughter was a little girl. His last bid
(17:42):
was seventeen year. He did a seventeen year bid But
then Tracy said to me, but if you might if
my father walked into this into a restaurant right now
and just sat down and started to have a conversation,
you would not necessarily know that he had been that
he's a formerly incarcerated. That piqued my interest, right because
then I said, well, what kind of what kind of
a cat is this? What's his personality? The charm when
(18:05):
I met him? Absolutely? So to to what I'm getting
at is the fact that from the very beginning we
were about the business of attempting to break stereotypes.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Let me ask you a question. Sure, you're in your seventies.
I talk about that part. Man, I'm sorry, my back.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Look good, look very good. I'm looking at you like inspiration.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But the reason I say that is my father is
he just turned eighty. My mother's in her seventies. God
bless thank Yeah. Absolutely so when I when I look
at them, their way of thinking and their way of
doing things is totally different from us. Right, So how
was that what you acting? Because things evolved? So you know,
when my mom and dad it was like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
A kid's place is a kid's place.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
They didn't talk about things. But my kids is a
lot different.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And how was it for you evolving to a different
way of thinking, a different way of learning and seeing
the world.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay, so I have a I have a son. He's
just turned twenty three. And the joke that I tell
and Karen and I as parents have had these kinds
of conversations as parents, our relationship to our kids. Right,
what I always say about, for instance, my father who
(19:18):
did not raise me. What I took from the way
that my dad did not raise me. He gave me
a really good lesson in what not to do in
terms of raising my son. And that's valuable. That's really
valuable for me. I would say that because my son
(19:40):
is twenty three and I've been raising him for you know,
twenty plus years. My ethos, my philosophy, my way of
being with my son has evolved and developed way before
I started doing on prison however, had is for you all.
(20:01):
But likewise, I came up in a time when little
kids should be seen and not heard. Right. One of
the first components of and I don't want to tell
anybody how to raise their kids, but community, but communication
is everything everything everything you got we have to talk
to each other. We got to talk to our kids
(20:23):
because frankly, as you all know, those of us who
are parents, kids see everything, whether whether they articulate it
to you or not. They are watching and they see
everything and they know bullshit, right, So I guess lesson
number one. Challenge Number one for me as a parent
(20:45):
is how can I be as And I'm not always successful,
but how can one be as authentic as one can be?
And I know that's a very hackneyed and overused term,
but to try to be as genuine and open with
my child as I can be. And that's one of
(21:06):
the challenges. And by extension, by extension, how do we
do that with our friends? How do we do that
with our loved ones? Man? How do we do that?
And it's an ongoing process, but I got to say something.
I gotta say something. I'm really thankful for this conversation
right now, right that this whether it be the fact
(21:29):
that this work has helped to engender this kind of
a conversation, but the fact of the matter is we're
having the conversation, and we're having the conversation. Yes, we're
having the conversation around the work, but we're having a
conversation around the ideas the dynamics that this work has
produced and what we as human beings who happen to
(21:50):
be black, are challenged to negotiate, right And I come
back again, care that's sister who the young lady in
the in the Apple store who said, that's my auntie
right there and looking at you, guys have not seen
the second season, I'm assuming right now. Okay, So I
(22:10):
looked at the episodes from the second season a few
weeks ago, and I gotta tip my hat to the fact,
Carrie that you do not shy away from Page's neuro seas.
You don't shy away from that. You jump in both feet,
now you do you do? You jump in both.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Finally found a character that's as crazy as I am.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Oh check that out, check that out. But you go there,
you go there, you do it. And as as an
actor working with that, working opposite that, as an actor,
as a human being playing against that, it's admirable. It's admirable,
and it all. Can you know what's.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
Interesting, Delry, I want to tell you what's interesting for
me is there's something I think there's a little bit
more of that for me in this season. And I
don't I don't think it's unrelated to Actually the last
time that I was here at the breakfast club. I
don't think it's unrelated to my memoir because there was
something about me writing my book and being like as
(23:12):
fully vulnerable in the world that could possibly be that
allowed me to understand that Page also was ready to
be vulnerable at a different level. Like this season, she's
ready to be like more raw and because she really
(23:32):
wants to heal, Like so much of what this season
about is about, guys, is that my son is struggling.
And so even though my dad and I have been
like dancing around each other trying to coexist, when his grandson,
my son starts to struggle. That's the thing that gets
us in family therapy because we're like, whatever stuff we're
(23:57):
working out, whatever issues we have, it should stop with us.
We should not be passing this on to the next generation.
And the only way to do that is if we
show up and like unpack it. If we wrestle with
the stuff that is limiting us, that is preventing us
from being who we want to be. If we can
(24:19):
unpack that stuff, then we can prevent ourselves from passing
it on to him. So, you know, I think a
lot of it is like I was doing that work
in between season one and season two in my own
life so much that I really understand this like need
that Page has to do the work to really figure
out who she is so that she doesn't irresponsibly just
(24:43):
pass her issues on to the next generation.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
I want to ask about that, Kara, because you know
Page is a therapist on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Clearly she's a therapist who needs a therapist. So I
want to ask every.
Speaker 6 (24:53):
All of them, do let me tell you that your
therapist doesn't have a therapist, get a new therapist.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Now that I'm going to ask, how do you believe
therapy is going to help pay? But in real life
we go to a therapist who didn't have a therapist.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
I think one of the things I love about this
season is like some of the funniest episodes this season.
I don't know if you agree, Delaware, but I think
our therapy scenes are some of the funniest episodes this season.
Like last season, we.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Had a big.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
Right last season, we had a big dance battle scene.
This season we have an episode where we're in family
therapy and it actually turns into a wrestling match like
a WWF wrestling match. It's so much fun, and it
really is this idea of like we have to wrestle
with it. We have to wrestle with this stuff. And
(25:43):
I think a therapist, nobody's perfect, So to me, I
always want to make sure that my therapist is in
therapy because nobody is perfect everybody. Therapy is not about
being wrong or bad or broken. It's about perspective and growth,
so everybody should be to me, if you're a therapist,
(26:04):
you should also be bouncing your ideas off of somebody
so that you are fully responsible for the time you're
with your clients and you're not projecting your stuff onto
your patients.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
One thing I did see that it's going to be,
it's gonna a lot of people are gonna really take
to it is when I guess there's a scene where
your son wants to talk to his dad.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
And you're like, no, it's not going to happen. I
don't like him, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And I know that happens in a lot of relationships
where women might not mess with their baby.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
That's not right, thought carry. But but you're like father.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And he's like, I want to tax my dad and
that's the rest of the mass that I've seen, so
talk about that a little.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Bit and how that scene came about.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
It's so so again this is like inspired by Tracey
McMillan's life, but also we have this incredible room of writers,
also led by Ivette Lee Bowser, who is like a
comedic goddess, like she was behind and living single. Like
all the shows in the nineties that we love the most,
Yvette Bowser had her fingerprint on them, and so she's
(27:06):
part of why we're able to have this incredible comedic
tone in what we do. Also, Tracy's just hilarious too.
But this issue of like you know, Page has issues
around control and she feels like her baby daddy hasn't
been present in the way that she's wanted him to be,
(27:26):
and so she has a block on their relationship, which
is so ironic, right because she knows the issues that
she deals with from her own dad being in and
out of her life, and yet she's repeating that pattern
with her son by preventing his dad. So I will
let you know that they work through it, and we
do get to meet his dad this season, which is
(27:47):
amazing and it's very humbling for Paige to have to,
you know, be open to that. And one of the
things I want to talk to you, Delroy, because this
is one of the ways you see where the intergenerational
village is so important, because there are ways in which
Page doesn't know how to walk her son through this journey,
(28:11):
but her father, as another man, can walk her son
through this journey with a different kind of wisdom and
a different kind of presence. And so you realize why
it's so important for us to be able to work
on our family connections and heal our family wounds, because
the more that we're able to be in community with
our family, the more growth we can have.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He is my grandson. Finn is an extraordinary bridge between
you and I on this journey.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, and the.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Young act of Folly who's grown like exponentially in this work.
And I met his parents last night and I told
him and his mom started, I'm gonna start crying. But
it's it's brilliant that he is there functioning as this bridge.
(29:11):
And you know, we're sitting here and we're having this
conversation and I didn't know it would be all this.
I mean, Carrie, I mean, you know, We didn't know
it would it would resonate like this. We didn't know
that it would.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
It's telling a story that that that needed to be
told in our communities. It's actually a new story for
our community. Over the last few years, we've been having
these conversations. So to see it in artists like Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And and and we Hm, we didn't know would have this.
I did not know it would have this impact necessarily.
But what I did know, and this is what I
tried to speak to last night, Carrie, was that there
was a real commit There seemed to be a real
commitment to we want to. We want to we want
(29:58):
to try to climb up the this mountain, we want
to try to traverse this mountain, and we want to
try to do this thing. And that was the and
we want to try to do it like this, And
I don't mean that it was kind of prepackaged, but
our objectives were we want to we want to flip
the script on this thing if we can. And that
(30:19):
was one of the things that uh got my attention
and made me feel, Okay, yeah, I want I'd like
to be a part of this journey, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
So I think the irony of miss Washington having COVID
right now, is that during COVID so many of us
were forced to sit down and be still. Yeah, for
the first time in a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
So a lot of people.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Had to look in that mirror, and that made a
lot of people start realizing, I don't really necessarily like
what I see.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I need to go do some work on myself. Yes,
but I'll tell you a little secret. If you would
have asked me what did and I was like everybody else.
First of all, I got the first round of COVID
and it kicked me in my in my behind. I mean,
it did a number on me. But if you would
say to me in that in that eight months that
(31:11):
you were in the house with your family, how has it?
How did it change you? I know it did change me,
but I'd be hard pressed to articulate it. HM. One
of the things that was, and this is gonna sound
so weird, but one of the things that was, I
(31:31):
didn't mind being in the house.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I loved it.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
The anxiety, parental paranoia was gone. I know everybody, yet
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I did too, And I was not aware of that.
I was just in it, just doing it, and and
and turning TV on, and and and watching things that
you wouldn't ordinarily watch that part. I dug that part.
So what does that say about me?
Speaker 5 (31:58):
But when you're doing work with full cold because I
was in therapy full cold, oh you.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Were oh yeah, yeah, no, no, now see this, Well, you've.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
Always been doing work on yourself, Joie, right. I think
through your through your craft, you are a very self
self aware person. I think you use the work to
do a lot of the kinds of self reflection that
other people do in therapy.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I want to believe that. No, that is true. It
is true because I have not had Yes, I've had
therapists over the years, but my journey. The journalist asked
me last night, She said, uh, something like, you know
what your what's your personal relationship to therapy? You know,
have you have you been in therapy? How has therapy
(32:43):
helped you? And I looked at her and I said, uh,
next question please, Because what that question did was it
challenged me to investigate my own relationship to therapy. Now
(33:05):
I was not about to do that with this journalist
right right. But to your question, was I doing work before?
And to what Carrie said again, It sounds like a
real hackneyed cliche, but but my work has saved my life.
(33:26):
It's saved my life, has saved my sanity. My work,
my work, my work, and my work has become has
has become even more important to me because I haven't
had a journey, a consistent journey with a therapist. I
didn't come out of the school it said, black man,
(33:47):
I don't know therapy. I didn't come out of that school.
But I had this thing, and I still have this
thing in my head. I wanted a black mail therapist.
I felt I wanted a black male therapist, and they're
hard to find. I mean, it may not be as
difficult now, but historically for myself, knowing years ago that
(34:08):
I needed to be in therapy. When I started looking
and I was right here in New York City, living
in New York, I wanted a black therapist, and I
found one eventually who retired. Had he not retired, I
would have stayed with him. But it's hard. It's hard
to find a therapist that one really vibes with, who
kind of gets it. And I felt that with all
(34:30):
of the other dynamics, I needed a black man.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
I felt like I needed a black somebody's culturally competent. Yes,
you don't got to explain things.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Certain things too. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
You know another theme in this show.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
I love any conversation about dealing with your in a child,
So so Kerry talk about the significance.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Of the interactions Page has with her in a child.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That little girl is brilliant.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
She's Jordan McIntosh, She's phenomenal. And you know, if you
haven't seen the show yet, for anybody who's listening, go
back and watch the first season also because we get
to meet Edwin's in Her Child as well, and it's
one of my favorite episodes of the series. But I
working with Jordan is so joyous for me. You know,
(35:18):
when we were casting this character of Little Page, there
were actually two actresses. It came down to these two
young actresses, and one of them looked more like me
than Jordan, Like she really looked like me, And we
were going back and forth between like is it her
is a Jordan and the difference between what they brought
(35:39):
to the roles both extraordinary young actresses. But the other
girl who looked more like me was had this kind
of sweet innocence of a child, and Jordan comes out
the box swinging right. She's like bold and she's so
spunky and bold and exciting, adventurous. And what we realized
(36:03):
in that process of casting, we had to ask ourselves, like,
what is the point of Little Page on the show?
And what we wanted Little Page to be was we
wanted her to be you know, that part of you
that exists before society tells you that you're not enough,
that part of you that is brave and bold and fearless.
(36:23):
And it's before a teacher tells you you move too slow,
or you're too loud, or you're not pretty enough, or
you're not like all the ways that society gets in
your head. And that's what Jordan was. Jordan was that
fierceness of Page, of me before the world told me
a lie that I was not enough. And so when
we hired her, it was such a gift to the
(36:46):
show because that's what the inner child work is, you know,
and if you've never heard of it from anybody who's listening,
sometimes in therapy, you'll you'll build a relationship with your
younger self, with your inner child, because you want to
go back and do the work to heal the spaces
in you that adults weren't able to take care of
(37:06):
because listen, the adults in our life are not perfect.
I know as a mom, I'm not perfect, right, Like,
we do the best we can. But part of being
an adult is saying like, Okay, maybe I didn't get
everything I needed as a child, but now it's my
job to go back and heal myself so that I
can move forward. I can't just sit around blaming my
mom and dad and whoever whatever teacher in third grade
(37:27):
for who I am today, Like who I am today
is somebody who can take responsibility and heal myself and
move forward. So the relationship with the little Page with
my inner child on the show is so important because
it's part of how Page is doing the work to
grow and move forward.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
What about you, Linda Well said Carrie Well said, Well said, Okay,
something that everything the carriage just said, everything that Carriages
(38:02):
articulated makes me think about something that I actually suffer from,
and that is hiding behind my work. Everything that much
of what you just said, you're articulating how you try
(38:24):
to fuse who you are, where you are in your
process as a human being, and how you apply all
of that into your work and specifically on prison. Yeah,
but I would say more broadly, just who you are
on the planet, and that unprisoned is informing that it's
(38:46):
not the other way around, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
For me.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And you mentioned that little boy one episode we had him,
that young man as my and a child in one
episode last in season one, that scene Carrie where he
came and held my hand.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
And the beautiful thing about kids so often they're just
they're just being just being kids. They're just being kids,
they're just being human beings. And there was this profound
Oh god, there was this profound he came in here,
openness and just thereness, and that connected me with who
(39:37):
I might have been as a child. And it was,
it was, it was, it was if you, it was.
It was a really strong scene for all of us.
To your question. My response to your question is, I
(40:02):
am not sure. Honestly, I'm really not sure what my
relationship is to In the work, one does one's job.
(40:27):
The result of one doings one doing one's job, you
then share that with audiences and it lands, however, it
lands in a job like this and various other jobs
that I've done that have that have that have meant
something to people. I don't. Necessarily I do not unless
(40:48):
I'm asked by a journalist tell me about X, tell
me about one. I don't deconstruct how or why. But
I'm kind of compelled to deconstruct when I'm asked for
and questions when I'm engaging in certain conversations. So when
you say to me, what about you, mister Lindo, my
first response is.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And on some level that's a that's a that's that's
that's a scary place to be. But it affirms that
throughout all of my foibles, all of my insecurities, all
of my neuroses as a as a human being, something
in the work centrally has some value to my fellow
(41:38):
human beings. And that's why one wants to be an
actor in the first place.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
Is it because the character Edwin is forcing Delroy lindo
to have to deal with some things that del Roy
Lindo's never dealt with. Because I was gonna ask, like,
even with the inner child thing, you know, you being
an elder, does your inner child.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Ever get the healing they deserve?
Speaker 5 (41:58):
And because they say when you're eat questions, when you
get to your age now. It's like you go back
to great question. Great question. And I would say that
I'm navigating that. I don't know if it's my inner child.
I guess it is my inner child. I'm navigating that as.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
We speak, partially through the work, but I'm also running
a memoir right now, and in and in and and
Carrie and I have talked about this somewhat, but then
and in engaging in that process and engaging in stuff
that happened to me when I was four or five, six, seven,
eight years old? Right right?
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
How does one understand that? How does one get to
a place of understanding with that stuff? And I'm I'm
I'm unpacking all of that right now. So I would
say I would say that this I know more now
than I knew four five years ago. I know more
(43:07):
now than I did ten years ago. For sure, your question,
how is that for you, mister Lindo, It's it's it's
it's an unfolding and evolving process as we speak.
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Because but even that, I'm sorry, I don't want to
interrupt you. Go ahead carry even that as I sit
here watching you as one of our greatest, as one
of our wisest as one of our best. It's for
you to have the courage to sit at a table
and say, I don't know, I'm in process, I'm unpacking,
(43:43):
I'm unfolding. That gives so many of us permission to
be in process. And to me, that's so much of
what we need is just the permission to not have
to like walk out the door and be perfect and
have all the answers, but to say, like, it's okay
that I have days where I'm not sure. It's okay
that I have days when I need help. And I
(44:06):
think I think that's one of the things that I
love about our show is that we're so in process.
We are a family that is so in processed, but
there's so much joy. Like we're not pulling our guts
out to suffer. We're doing the work because you get
to see all through the season every time we do
(44:26):
the work. On the other side is more love, is
more joy, is more acceptance, more belonging, even.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
When the love is flawed, Even when the love is flawed.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Right, yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Is flawed all day long. Right, And we're we're what's this,
We're in the We're in the mud man and we're
trying to see it and and mold it and fit
all that. And that's profoundly human. You said something, it's
profoundly human. You said something that's connected to what we're
(44:59):
discussing right now. You said, I'm going on Stephen Colbert tonight.
Did you say that given the events of the last
what day is this Tuesday?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Thursday? When it is okay? All right? So given the
events of uh since last Friday and Saturday and Sunday,
and you're going onto a You're going into a a
sphere where I don't know if you're going to talk
about that.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
But we are because it's live after the convention to.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Night, okay, And I'm wondering, and this is too, This
is this speaks to how how we connect with ourselves
and how we communicate in the world. How much realness
do you bring to that.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
All of it? Because this is a moment that's way
bigger than us right now.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's way bigger than that in us, And I'm scared
right now.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
We're at a very pivotal point in our society.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Right now, but it's more pivotal than the pivotal than
how pivotal it was last week.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Yes, of course, yes, of course, Sharper.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Now because the way this has come down in the
last four or five days absolutely scary. Oh, it's terrified
about what.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
The Supreme Court is doing, what I don't even think
is in a legitimate court anymore.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
On top of on the way there's a yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
It's a lot, it's a lot, and and and what
we're what we've been talking about in this, in this,
in this, in this conversation has to do with a
certain kind of truth that we as actors are trying
to get to. Truth for ourselves as human beings, truth
for ourselves as as as creative workers. And we're trying
(46:49):
to bring all of that together, and we're and we're
we're putting it out there and now we the next
another dimension of having messed around with that truth is
now dealing with how that truth has impacted our actors,
I'm sorry, our audiences.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Which is crazy as is. You know, Carrie, A lot
of this seems like scandal. A lot of it seems
like we've seen it before on your show. Can you
talk about that, how this seems like it's like it's
reliving again and.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
It was a whole episode of Scandal that this happened, yes, life, Yes,
because people were saying people were saying, it's stage, but
we know it's not stage.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
But the episode of Scandal when he did stage it.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
Yeah, I think you know. One of the things that
that I want us to be talking about more is
that too many of us are not participating in the process.
Are not are thinking that it's okay to not vote,
our feeling like there's no point in participating.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
They set up like that, Carrie, the process is set
up like that.
Speaker 6 (47:58):
I know, I know, but let me let me just say.
What concerns me is that so much of it stems
from this belief that we have internalized that we don't matter.
And that's part of why this work that we do
matters to me, is because we tell these stories so
that people see themselves, so that they know that they matter.
(48:20):
And I want people to participate in our democratic process
because I want you to know that you matter. Like
this word democracy is getting thrown around, what I want
to remind people is that what it means is a
government for the people. By now, we don't do that
perfectly in this country. I know that we all know that,
(48:41):
but we don't fix it by stepping out of the process.
And I know that that's hard, because life is very
hard for a lot of us, and we feel like
we want to step out of the process because the
process isn't made for us, and the process isn't isn't
working for us, and the process doesn't include us. We
(49:04):
have to force ourselves into the process because the alternative
is not a government by the people for the people,
but an autocrat, which means like a president who does
whatever he wants, he wants however he wants, and accountability.
They're not being coy about it, like they have a
(49:25):
very clear point by point this project twenty five it
will have a catastrophic impact on education, on healthcare, on
the economy, and they're not being shy about it. They
are telling us that they want to change the government
so that it is no longer a government by the
(49:46):
people for the people, that it doesn't even have that
dream that it's going to be a government for the
president and his friends, and we are not his friends.
Speaker 5 (49:56):
I'm wondering, if you know, the way the Supreme Court
is set up beca not even a legitimate institution anymore.
I'm wondering, right now, are we do we even have
a healthy enough democracy to have a free and fair
election in November.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Okay, totally legitimate question. One thing carry for all of
us because this is this is this is it's beyond
critically important. It's existential. It's existential. I don't think that
(50:27):
the people who are not participating are necessarily doing it
consciously internalized. They've internalized this narrative that says, as you said,
you don't matter, it doesn't matter, you don't count, it
doesn't matter, and you internalize that and then it becomes
w t F. That's right, that's what we have.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
That's what we have to address when sorry.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
No, no, that's what has to be addressed. That's that's
what has to be on some level, the process in
which folk have internalized just what you said, it doesn't matter.
How do we unpack that, How do we deconstruct that
and say, yeah, it matters, And how do we articulate
that in a way that turns them on, flips the
(51:18):
switch for them.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
I don't know when.
Speaker 6 (51:22):
I don't know, but I do, But I do know
that all the concerns we have will not be fixed
by stepping out of the process, by deciding that there's
nothing we can do that will not for sure be
that will not move us toward a solution. So don't don't.
(51:42):
I don't know what each person wants to do, but
there's so much that we can do right now. We
can check our own voter registration. We can reach out
to five friends who we know aren't planning to vote
and beg them, try to help them to understand. Because
the best person to communicate somebody to the importance of
voting as somebody's friend or family member, not a celebrity,
not a politician, not anything. We can all support grassroots organizations.
(52:07):
There are grassroots organizations all over the country who are
doing the heavy work of democracy building. We can support
those organizations. We can focus on local races. We can volunteer,
we can make phone calls. We can if we have
the money to donate, we can do it. There's there
is so much that we can do. And I find
that when I am feeling hopeless and afraid, the more
(52:31):
that I click into community and try to do something,
the better I feel. So, even if it's just like
a part of your own mental health strategy, because I
believe that that participating in politics is part of how
I exercise self care and self love like I express
my love for my community by showing up in my
(52:52):
democratic process because I know that it matters.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
This is the Black Dinner table. You think about all
the issues we.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
Come biracial, coming from jail.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Everything.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
God, I mean, we appreciate you guys for joining us
so much.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
We need you guys.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
We need you guys back and especially uh, you know, individually,
so we can talk about your both of your careers anniversary.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
We got to discuss almost die. Oh, I know, I got,
I know, y'all got to go.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
I do have to ask the Romeo on the die
question because mister Lindo, you worked with a Lea, you
played a Leah's father. Does it make you appreciate life
more because you're still here at seventy one and those
two beautiful individuals have.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yes, Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. And that I
didn't know DMX as well, uh because we didn't work together.
But that young lady was such a beautiful spirit man
and I don't know she had this, I didn't know
who she was before we did the film. Extraordinarily beautiful spirit.
(53:59):
She was like a spune. She just wanted she wanted
to learn. She wanted to she wanted to move herself
forward in terms of whatever her public, what, what her
image was. The young lady that I knew, that I
interacted with was a profoundly beautiful spirit. You know, it
(54:21):
broke my heart when we lost her.
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Man, you remember where you were.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
I know exactly where I was. I was in the
e r with my son. I was in the room
with my son. My son had developed this breathing thing,
and we took him to the hospital. It is being
seen by a doctor. And I stepped outside. I stepped
outside to the parking lot and I started getting all
these texts, so sorry to hear, so sorry to hear.
(54:48):
And I said what what what? What? And I and
then a friend of mine said, oh my god, we
lost a Leah. And I screamed out and I didn't know.
I screamed that there were two sisters in the parking
lot and they said, sir, are you all right? And
that's where I was. I was in the I was
in the Oakland Children's Hospital in the parking lot when
(55:09):
I found out about a Leah. Wow. So to your question, man,
and one doesn't always think about these things in these
kinds of terms. I'm so I'm so fortunate to still
be here. But man, yeah, and then DMX, we didn't
(55:30):
have any scenes together. I was walking down Canal Street.
I was walking on Canal and Houston Street and this
car pulls up, a big black SUV and the window
rolls down. It's d MX. Yo yo yo yo yo. Man,
keep doing what you're doing now, bet that that that
was it. But the respect, the connection, you know what
(55:51):
I mean. So the fact that they are no longer
here and I am I'm I'm being a parent, I'm working,
I'm doing im important, I'm having important communications with important people.
And when I say important, I'm talking about people who
(56:12):
are culturally plugged in and committed to moving our culture forward.
But it's not just it's not just this cultural thing.
It's the fact that we happen to be human beings,
African descented human beings, and we're trying to move this
(56:32):
thing forward for all of us. And I got to
say this, it ain't just about black people. It's about
the condition of being a human being on the planet,
of what we contribute, what we continue to contribute, what
we contributed historically, and the fact that all the stuff
we bring to the table right in this process of
(56:53):
living that constantly gets downplayed and undervalued. And it's our jobs,
going back to what we talked about originally in the
beginning of this conversation, to interrupt that process and say, uh,
we're here, we're important, this is what we do, and
y'all have to listen to us. And it's critical to
(57:13):
tell those met to tell those stories to our children
because they will then take it that step further.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
All right, well, there you have it Season two.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Thank you, God, bless y'all.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
We thank you for joining us. Kerry Washington, Delroy Lindo,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Feel better, feel better, Wake that ass up in the morning.
Breakfast Club.
Wake that answer up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We
are the Breakfast Club. He got some special guest joining
us this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We have Kerrie Washington and Delroy Lindo.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Welcome, Thank you, Good morning to you both.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
Carrie, first and foremost, How are you you still catching
COVID like a twenty twenty right?
Speaker 6 (00:27):
I am, I'm back in the twenty twenty era. God
help us. I'm doing okay. I'm getting better one day
at a time. But thank you for being able to
do this virtually because I love our show and I
want to be able to talk about our show and
not get anybody else sick.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That's Delroy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
How you doing, brother, I'm doing well. I'm doing very well.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Thank you, go well man s Luthor You Delroy the
legend you've been. You've been acting for almost fifty years.
I haven't been fifty.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Uh I lose track, but somewhere around there. Yeah, what
does that mean to you? What does it mean to me?
You know what I'm really I feel fortunate that I'm
still working to be honest man knock on wood and
still doing work that people seem interested in that feels
real good, and this feels good being involved with a
project like this, isn't that right?
Speaker 6 (01:15):
In his Washington I was just thinking, we're the lucky ones,
you know that he's still working because he is. To me,
Delwar is one of our national treasures. He's like, he's
an og He's on my mount rushmore of acting. So
that he's still doing it is so generous really, because
he could be like, I'm good, I've brought my a game.
(01:38):
Everybody knows how good I am. But he's still like
invested in everything he does. He makes better because he's
in it. So we're blessed that he's.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Still working and he just brings us joy, not because
of his you know craft. You know, whenever we get
a glimpse of that meme where he's dancing in the
club in Five Bloods, that didn't look like acting to
me though, like he was just having a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I like the energy, So you know what, that's that's
a that's a good example of something having caught on.
I had that I had no idea about, you know,
but it's it's it's a terrific kind of example of
the work kind of reaching a broader audience. The fact
that it gets on to social media like that becomes
(02:19):
like a thing in itself, which is which is an
added an added bonus to UH to being an actor
and working because you know, when we're doing that scene,
I didn't think about that. I didn't think that it
was going to be on social media like that. So
it's it's good.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
How many times you had to do that take?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know what? We did it maybe twice because Spike
thought about it in the moment. It was literally, we're
going to do no no, no. Yeah, that was not
that was not scripted, right. Wow, we were in the club.
We were doing another scene in the club. He said,
let's just do this, and I think we did it twice. Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Yeah, who before we will get in the un prison
but before who, lets you know that that was going
so viral and still goes viral.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
My son okay, my son and I started getting you know,
look at this, look at this, look at this, but
I I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Season two of Unprisoned is out now on Hulu. For
people who've never seen, break down what Unprisoned is about.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Start from season one.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Carrie, you want to take that. I mean, I'm I'm
not only because I'm happy to talk about it, but
I want Carry to talk about it just because my
involvement with this. The reason I want Carry to talk
about it is because Carrie is the one who who
brought me into this project. And as I said last night,
(03:44):
I don't know if you heard this Carrie, but her leadership,
her relationship to this project, and because she has a
particular relationship to the project, she has a relationship to
everybody involved in the project. And she was the one
(04:05):
who reached out to me initially to say will you
come do this? So you know, it sits in her
heart in a way that I mean, I want her
to talk about it because she's partially responsible for getting
the thing off the ground. So you take it, Miss Washington, sir.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
I mean, one of the things I love about being
a producer is that I get to be a part
of work like this with people that I so admire
and telling stories that I think matter. So this show
is inspired by the life of a woman named Tracy
McMillan whose dad was in and out of prison her
whole life, and it's really about this kind of intergenerational
(04:47):
relationship between a dad, his daughter, and his grandson, and
when the dad comes out of prison, he comes to
live with them and kind of how the three of
them figure out how to coexist. So it's about what
it's like to be a returning citizen, you know, when
you're leaving the system and trying to re enter into
(05:08):
the world. But it's also about what it means to
love a returning citizen and be in a family that's
grappling with how we are impacted by this so called
justice system. And it's so meaningful to me because there's
so many of us who have been impacted by the system,
who have family members who've been incarcerated or been incarcerated ourselves.
(05:32):
I mean, we did. We were at a film festival
last year when the show first aired, and we did
four sit down interviews, and three out of four of
the journalists had a parent who had been incarcerated, and
they were all different races too. I mean, this story,
I'm very proud. The story is very much the story
of a black family and the particular challenges and joy
that we experience, but this is also an American story,
(05:55):
like we are all dealing with the tragedy that is
the justice system in this country and how it impacts
us and for generations. But what I love. One thing
I would say is that you wouldn't think, having said
all that, you would think it's like like a very
heavy show. But part of what made me fall in
love with this show is that it's a comedy. I mean,
it's a dramedy, but there's a lot of joy and
(06:19):
love and laughter because that's also who we are as
a people, Like we are resilient, we are survivors, and
and this character that Delaware plays, Edwin, is like such
a beautiful example of how we may have stereotypes about
who's in the system.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Or think we have stereotypes. We think we know who
those people are, and we do not. I gotta I
gotta jump in really quickly because at least Carrie, yes,
we are a black family. But one of the strengths
of this work is that we are dealing with our humanity,
and humanity transcends race, right, And I've been thinking since
(07:05):
Five Bloods. Actually I started articulating this in a lot
of the interviews that I was doing around Five Bloods.
If you think you guys know this one of the
main problems that African descended people have had since time immemorial.
Is the rejection of our humanity. That's that's that's the
(07:28):
that's the beginning, the middle, and the end of the
thing right there, that we are not considered to be
human now with a show like this, with work like this,
Yes it's a black family, but I believe that one
of the strengths of this work has to do with
the fact that we're first and foremost presenting human beings
who happen to be black, and because we're investigating the
(07:49):
foibles of that, of the of those dynamics. I think,
on what you think, Carrie, but I think it's resonated,
transcended itself beyond this is an example domination of a
black family, right and that's one of the strengths of
this work. I will tell you that last night, Carrie
at the SOD he had the premiere screening last night,
(08:13):
And this has happened to me a lot in the
in the two years we've been doing this. Sister came
up to me and said, mister Linnoy, I just want
to thank you for the work. My daddy was incarcerated
for ten years when I was a little girl, and
the notes that you all are hitting in this work
really resonate for me personally, and that's another one of
(08:36):
the strengths of this work. As far as I'm concerned
that it has, you know, peggybacking on what Carrie said,
it touches people in personal ways, and I'm not necessarily
surprised about that, but it's every time it happens, it's
an affirmation of the strength and the value of what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know, well, you talk about you know, I was
watching you talk about breaking generational curses, right, that seems
one of the things that was most important because you
touch things of family members going to jail and how
a lot of times when they come out people feel ashamed.
You talk about biracial relationships, fathers trying to get back
into their daughter and do those things. So why was
that all important? Because those are all topics in our community.
Sometimes we don't necessarily talk about outside the house a man.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
So as Carrie was speaking, she talked about the process
that is that's a live in this work of these
three individuals, myself, my daughter, and my grand my grandson
Carrie's son played by Folly. We're also and I hadn't
(09:43):
thought about this in these terms until you said it, Carrie,
we're also unpacking what it means to love, what does
love look like? Right? And when you talk about the
intergenerational blockages to that and how well, for instance black
Men as an example, how we are socialized to believe
(10:08):
we are supposed to be a certain way and our
general your generation, my gen we're all trying to interrupt that.
And this show is at the heart of that because
we're trying to figure out and you say it, Carrie
in the in the first episode of season two, that
we need to break this chain, we need to break
(10:30):
this process of this into generational pathology. We're repeating itself
over and over and over again. So there are all
kinds of aspects to this work that, yeah, speak to
the condition of being an African descented person and what
we deal with as families, as individuals. But it's human, man,
(10:52):
it's human love.
Speaker 6 (10:55):
But I loved about your question was that you said
these are that we don't necessarily talk about outside the home,
and the reason we don't is because we think we're
the only ones. And so we have this shame, right,
we have shame that causes us to keep our secrets
and not air our dirty laundry. The power of a
(11:17):
show like this is that we get to we get
to provide people with an opportunity to see themselves reflected
on a larger scale. Right, So people get to be
in their homes, but they know that they're not alone
because we're all dealing with trauma of some sort. We're
all trying to figure out how to love our kids.
We're all trying to figure out how to love our parents.
We're all trying to figure out how to free ourselves,
(11:39):
whether it's free ourselves from prison bars or free ourselves
from the limitations that other people have placed on us.
We're all on these journeys ourselves. Yes, yes, So we
get to with joy and humor. We get to kind
of say to somebody, like, here's the dirty laundry. Every
every family has it. We're all navigating it. If we
(12:02):
can put it out there and talk about it more freely,
we can actually free ourselves. That's the joy of the show.
It's like this family is drama is out for you
all to consume and take in feel less alone, and
then we all move forward together.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
And it plays that in therapy too. I was going
to say it plays that in therapy.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Like you know, we've been talking about in the last
couple of years more and more about going to therapy,
but it plays out in therapy, and one time that
was something that nobody ever talked about going therapy getting help.
So the fact that as a family I'll go together
is I thinks big as well.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Before we get to the therapy aspect, I want to
go back to the intergenerational thing because you know, carries
that something just now we don't talk about it outside
of the house because we don't talk about it inside
of the house.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And that's what I love that y'all doing the show.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Y'all are having those intergenerational conversations within the house. So
just talk to people about how important it is to
have intergenerational conversations, to not be so segregated in the home.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh man, we're we're all talking this morning, and I'm
listening to carry and I'm listening to the questions you
guys are coming up with. What's occurring to me as
it relates to your question and as it relates to
just my own life. There's a safety We get to
examine these dynamics within the construct of this television show,
(13:23):
right frankly, and partially my answer to that question is
that I get to investigate for myself, as a human
being on the planet, how these things, how intergenerational trauma
pathology has impacted me. And I get to use the
(13:47):
conduit of Edwin, the character that I'm playing, to investigate
some things that are very personal to me. As a
result of that, I come on a show like this
and we in this case, as black man, as black woman,
get to discuss these things, right, And honestly, sometimes I
(14:08):
feel I can, and I've said this before, sometimes I
feel I can be more articulate in my work addressing
certain issues than I can as a regular human being.
That's trippy, frankly, because because when I take a half
a step back and recognize that, acknowledge that, then I'm
(14:30):
faced with the challenge of Okay, man, you did this
in an acting job. Now address it for yourself outside
of the process of acting.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Right, You open up the conversation. You open up the conversation.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that's
powerful is that for me, when you watch the show,
if you watch it with loved ones, you have in
the same way that dol is saying, like he can
explore his is shoes through Edwin. You also, somebody watching
the show can explore their issues through Page my character, right,
Like you can have a conversation with your husband about
(15:11):
something that Page is going through, and it gives you
like space to kind of hide behind pages crazy because
she's a little bit neurotic and crazy, and that way
it makes it easier. I think when our store, when
the storytelling that we're exposed to is telling the truths
about all of us, then it makes everything easier to
(15:31):
talk about, whether it's in our home or outside our home.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So hold on, go ahead, carry, go ahead, go ahead,
go ahead. Okay. So another personal kind an anecdotal affirmation.
I'm in the Apple Store about I don't know, five
months ago getting a new phone. Sister comes up to
me in the Apple Store and says, thank you for unprisoned,
and she goes on to talk about the fact that
(15:55):
her daddy was was incarcerated. But then she said, I
think I told you this carry. I'm not sure my
Auntie is exactly what Kerry Washington is doing. That's my
aunt right there. Again, these personal, these personal anecdotal affirmations
that we're doing what we're doing has a particular kind
(16:19):
of value, you know, And going back to your your
original question, what I call you man, I call you Charlemagne,
call you Charlemage the God.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
What do people call you Charlemagne? That's fine, charm.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Going back to your original question, I don't know that
we saw all of the potential, Carrie, when you and
I had that very first zoom call, when you first
kind of pitched this to me, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
I begged you to come beyond the show.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I wasn't gonna put you out there like that when
we first had the conversation, we didn't necessarily know it
would have this kind of resonance and impact. But there
was one critical and I do need to We need
to include Tracy in this, right, Tracy McMillan, whose life
journey has been the inspiration for this work. They said
(17:20):
to me, little Tracy, and Carry said to me, they
wanted to break the stereotypical image that people have of
a formally incarcerated cat. Right. You think, oh, this cat's
been InCAR This cat's been in and out of prison
since his daughter was a little girl. His last bid
(17:42):
was seventeen year. He did a seventeen year bid But
then Tracy said to me, but if you might if
my father walked into this into a restaurant right now
and just sat down and started to have a conversation,
you would not necessarily know that he had been that
he's a formerly incarcerated. That piqued my interest, right because
then I said, well, what kind of what kind of
a cat is this? What's his personality? The charm when
(18:05):
I met him? Absolutely? So to to what I'm getting
at is the fact that from the very beginning we
were about the business of attempting to break stereotypes.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Let me ask you a question. Sure, you're in your seventies.
I talk about that part. Man, I'm sorry, my back.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Look good, look very good. I'm looking at you like inspiration.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But the reason I say that is my father is
he just turned eighty. My mother's in her seventies. God
bless thank Yeah. Absolutely so when I when I look
at them, their way of thinking and their way of
doing things is totally different from us. Right, So how
was that what you acting? Because things evolved? So you know,
when my mom and dad it was like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
A kid's place is a kid's place.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
They didn't talk about things. But my kids is a
lot different.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And how was it for you evolving to a different
way of thinking, a different way of learning and seeing
the world.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay, so I have a I have a son. He's
just turned twenty three. And the joke that I tell
and Karen and I as parents have had these kinds
of conversations as parents, our relationship to our kids. Right,
what I always say about, for instance, my father who
(19:18):
did not raise me. What I took from the way
that my dad did not raise me. He gave me
a really good lesson in what not to do in
terms of raising my son. And that's valuable. That's really
valuable for me. I would say that because my son
(19:40):
is twenty three and I've been raising him for you know,
twenty plus years. My ethos, my philosophy, my way of
being with my son has evolved and developed way before
I started doing on prison however, had is for you all.
(20:01):
But likewise, I came up in a time when little
kids should be seen and not heard. Right. One of
the first components of and I don't want to tell
anybody how to raise their kids, but community, but communication
is everything everything everything you got we have to talk
to each other. We got to talk to our kids
(20:23):
because frankly, as you all know, those of us who
are parents, kids see everything, whether whether they articulate it
to you or not. They are watching and they see
everything and they know bullshit, right, So I guess lesson
number one. Challenge Number one for me as a parent
(20:45):
is how can I be as And I'm not always successful,
but how can one be as authentic as one can be?
And I know that's a very hackneyed and overused term,
but to try to be as genuine and open with
my child as I can be. And that's one of
(21:06):
the challenges. And by extension, by extension, how do we
do that with our friends? How do we do that
with our loved ones? Man? How do we do that?
And it's an ongoing process, but I got to say something.
I gotta say something. I'm really thankful for this conversation
right now, right that this whether it be the fact
(21:29):
that this work has helped to engender this kind of
a conversation, but the fact of the matter is we're
having the conversation, and we're having the conversation. Yes, we're
having the conversation around the work, but we're having a
conversation around the ideas the dynamics that this work has
produced and what we as human beings who happen to
(21:50):
be black, are challenged to negotiate, right And I come
back again, care that's sister who the young lady in
the in the Apple store who said, that's my auntie
right there and looking at you, guys have not seen
the second season, I'm assuming right now. Okay, So I
(22:10):
looked at the episodes from the second season a few
weeks ago, and I gotta tip my hat to the fact,
Carrie that you do not shy away from Page's neuro seas.
You don't shy away from that. You jump in both feet,
now you do you do? You jump in both.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Finally found a character that's as crazy as I am.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Oh check that out, check that out. But you go there,
you go there, you do it. And as as an
actor working with that, working opposite that, as an actor,
as a human being playing against that, it's admirable. It's admirable,
and it all. Can you know what's.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
Interesting, Delry, I want to tell you what's interesting for
me is there's something I think there's a little bit
more of that for me in this season. And I
don't I don't think it's unrelated to Actually the last
time that I was here at the breakfast club. I
don't think it's unrelated to my memoir because there was
something about me writing my book and being like as
(23:12):
fully vulnerable in the world that could possibly be that
allowed me to understand that Page also was ready to
be vulnerable at a different level. Like this season, she's
ready to be like more raw and because she really
(23:32):
wants to heal, Like so much of what this season
about is about, guys, is that my son is struggling.
And so even though my dad and I have been
like dancing around each other trying to coexist, when his grandson,
my son starts to struggle. That's the thing that gets
us in family therapy because we're like, whatever stuff we're
(23:57):
working out, whatever issues we have, it should stop with us.
We should not be passing this on to the next generation.
And the only way to do that is if we
show up and like unpack it. If we wrestle with
the stuff that is limiting us, that is preventing us
from being who we want to be. If we can
(24:19):
unpack that stuff, then we can prevent ourselves from passing
it on to him. So, you know, I think a
lot of it is like I was doing that work
in between season one and season two in my own
life so much that I really understand this like need
that Page has to do the work to really figure
out who she is so that she doesn't irresponsibly just
(24:43):
pass her issues on to the next generation.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
I want to ask about that, Kara, because you know
Page is a therapist on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Clearly she's a therapist who needs a therapist. So I
want to ask every.
Speaker 6 (24:53):
All of them, do let me tell you that your
therapist doesn't have a therapist, get a new therapist.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Now that I'm going to ask, how do you believe
therapy is going to help pay? But in real life
we go to a therapist who didn't have a therapist.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
I think one of the things I love about this
season is like some of the funniest episodes this season.
I don't know if you agree, Delaware, but I think
our therapy scenes are some of the funniest episodes this season.
Like last season, we.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Had a big.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
Right last season, we had a big dance battle scene.
This season we have an episode where we're in family
therapy and it actually turns into a wrestling match like
a WWF wrestling match. It's so much fun, and it
really is this idea of like we have to wrestle
with it. We have to wrestle with this stuff. And
(25:43):
I think a therapist, nobody's perfect, So to me, I
always want to make sure that my therapist is in
therapy because nobody is perfect everybody. Therapy is not about
being wrong or bad or broken. It's about perspective and growth,
so everybody should be to me, if you're a therapist,
(26:04):
you should also be bouncing your ideas off of somebody
so that you are fully responsible for the time you're
with your clients and you're not projecting your stuff onto
your patients.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
One thing I did see that it's going to be,
it's gonna a lot of people are gonna really take
to it is when I guess there's a scene where
your son wants to talk to his dad.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
And you're like, no, it's not going to happen. I
don't like him, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And I know that happens in a lot of relationships
where women might not mess with their baby.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
That's not right, thought carry. But but you're like father.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And he's like, I want to tax my dad and
that's the rest of the mass that I've seen, so
talk about that a little.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Bit and how that scene came about.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
It's so so again this is like inspired by Tracey
McMillan's life, but also we have this incredible room of writers,
also led by Ivette Lee Bowser, who is like a
comedic goddess, like she was behind and living single. Like
all the shows in the nineties that we love the most,
Yvette Bowser had her fingerprint on them, and so she's
(27:06):
part of why we're able to have this incredible comedic
tone in what we do. Also, Tracy's just hilarious too.
But this issue of like you know, Page has issues
around control and she feels like her baby daddy hasn't
been present in the way that she's wanted him to be,
(27:26):
and so she has a block on their relationship, which
is so ironic, right because she knows the issues that
she deals with from her own dad being in and
out of her life, and yet she's repeating that pattern
with her son by preventing his dad. So I will
let you know that they work through it, and we
do get to meet his dad this season, which is
(27:47):
amazing and it's very humbling for Paige to have to,
you know, be open to that. And one of the
things I want to talk to you, Delroy, because this
is one of the ways you see where the intergenerational
village is so important, because there are ways in which
Page doesn't know how to walk her son through this journey,
(28:11):
but her father, as another man, can walk her son
through this journey with a different kind of wisdom and
a different kind of presence. And so you realize why
it's so important for us to be able to work
on our family connections and heal our family wounds, because
the more that we're able to be in community with
our family, the more growth we can have.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He is my grandson. Finn is an extraordinary bridge between
you and I on this journey.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, and the.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Young act of Folly who's grown like exponentially in this work.
And I met his parents last night and I told
him and his mom started, I'm gonna start crying. But
it's it's brilliant that he is there functioning as this bridge.
(29:11):
And you know, we're sitting here and we're having this
conversation and I didn't know it would be all this.
I mean, Carrie, I mean, you know, We didn't know
it would it would resonate like this. We didn't know
that it would.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
It's telling a story that that that needed to be
told in our communities. It's actually a new story for
our community. Over the last few years, we've been having
these conversations. So to see it in artists like Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And and and we Hm, we didn't know would have this.
I did not know it would have this impact necessarily.
But what I did know, and this is what I
tried to speak to last night, Carrie, was that there
was a real commit There seemed to be a real
commitment to we want to. We want to we want
(29:58):
to try to climb up the this mountain, we want
to try to traverse this mountain, and we want to
try to do this thing. And that was the and
we want to try to do it like this, And
I don't mean that it was kind of prepackaged, but
our objectives were we want to we want to flip
the script on this thing if we can. And that
(30:19):
was one of the things that uh got my attention
and made me feel, Okay, yeah, I want I'd like
to be a part of this journey, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
So I think the irony of miss Washington having COVID
right now, is that during COVID so many of us
were forced to sit down and be still. Yeah, for
the first time in a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
So a lot of people.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Had to look in that mirror, and that made a
lot of people start realizing, I don't really necessarily like
what I see.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I need to go do some work on myself. Yes,
but I'll tell you a little secret. If you would
have asked me what did and I was like everybody else.
First of all, I got the first round of COVID
and it kicked me in my in my behind. I mean,
it did a number on me. But if you would
say to me in that in that eight months that
(31:11):
you were in the house with your family, how has it?
How did it change you? I know it did change me,
but I'd be hard pressed to articulate it. HM. One
of the things that was, and this is gonna sound
so weird, but one of the things that was, I
(31:31):
didn't mind being in the house.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I loved it.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
The anxiety, parental paranoia was gone. I know everybody, yet
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I did too, And I was not aware of that.
I was just in it, just doing it, and and
and turning TV on, and and and watching things that
you wouldn't ordinarily watch that part. I dug that part.
So what does that say about me?
Speaker 5 (31:58):
But when you're doing work with full cold because I
was in therapy full cold, oh you.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Were oh yeah, yeah, no, no, now see this, Well, you've.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
Always been doing work on yourself, Joie, right. I think
through your through your craft, you are a very self
self aware person. I think you use the work to
do a lot of the kinds of self reflection that
other people do in therapy.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I want to believe that. No, that is true. It
is true because I have not had Yes, I've had
therapists over the years, but my journey. The journalist asked
me last night, She said, uh, something like, you know
what your what's your personal relationship to therapy? You know,
have you have you been in therapy? How has therapy
(32:43):
helped you? And I looked at her and I said, uh,
next question please, Because what that question did was it
challenged me to investigate my own relationship to therapy. Now
(33:05):
I was not about to do that with this journalist
right right. But to your question, was I doing work before?
And to what Carrie said again, It sounds like a
real hackneyed cliche, but but my work has saved my life.
(33:26):
It's saved my life, has saved my sanity. My work,
my work, my work, and my work has become has
has become even more important to me because I haven't
had a journey, a consistent journey with a therapist. I
didn't come out of the school it said, black man,
(33:47):
I don't know therapy. I didn't come out of that school.
But I had this thing, and I still have this
thing in my head. I wanted a black mail therapist.
I felt I wanted a black male therapist, and they're
hard to find. I mean, it may not be as
difficult now, but historically for myself, knowing years ago that
(34:08):
I needed to be in therapy. When I started looking
and I was right here in New York City, living
in New York, I wanted a black therapist, and I
found one eventually who retired. Had he not retired, I
would have stayed with him. But it's hard. It's hard
to find a therapist that one really vibes with, who
kind of gets it. And I felt that with all
(34:30):
of the other dynamics, I needed a black man.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
I felt like I needed a black somebody's culturally competent. Yes,
you don't got to explain things.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Certain things too. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
You know another theme in this show.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
I love any conversation about dealing with your in a child,
So so Kerry talk about the significance.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Of the interactions Page has with her in a child.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That little girl is brilliant.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
She's Jordan McIntosh, She's phenomenal. And you know, if you
haven't seen the show yet, for anybody who's listening, go
back and watch the first season also because we get
to meet Edwin's in Her Child as well, and it's
one of my favorite episodes of the series. But I
working with Jordan is so joyous for me. You know,
(35:18):
when we were casting this character of Little Page, there
were actually two actresses. It came down to these two
young actresses, and one of them looked more like me
than Jordan, Like she really looked like me, And we
were going back and forth between like is it her
is a Jordan and the difference between what they brought
(35:39):
to the roles both extraordinary young actresses. But the other
girl who looked more like me was had this kind
of sweet innocence of a child, and Jordan comes out
the box swinging right. She's like bold and she's so
spunky and bold and exciting, adventurous. And what we realized
(36:03):
in that process of casting, we had to ask ourselves, like,
what is the point of Little Page on the show?
And what we wanted Little Page to be was we
wanted her to be you know, that part of you
that exists before society tells you that you're not enough,
that part of you that is brave and bold and fearless.
(36:23):
And it's before a teacher tells you you move too slow,
or you're too loud, or you're not pretty enough, or
you're not like all the ways that society gets in
your head. And that's what Jordan was. Jordan was that
fierceness of Page, of me before the world told me
a lie that I was not enough. And so when
we hired her, it was such a gift to the
(36:46):
show because that's what the inner child work is, you know,
and if you've never heard of it from anybody who's listening,
sometimes in therapy, you'll you'll build a relationship with your
younger self, with your inner child, because you want to
go back and do the work to heal the spaces
in you that adults weren't able to take care of
(37:06):
because listen, the adults in our life are not perfect.
I know as a mom, I'm not perfect, right, Like,
we do the best we can. But part of being
an adult is saying like, Okay, maybe I didn't get
everything I needed as a child, but now it's my
job to go back and heal myself so that I
can move forward. I can't just sit around blaming my
mom and dad and whoever whatever teacher in third grade
(37:27):
for who I am today, Like who I am today
is somebody who can take responsibility and heal myself and
move forward. So the relationship with the little Page with
my inner child on the show is so important because
it's part of how Page is doing the work to
grow and move forward.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
What about you, Linda Well said Carrie Well said, Well said, Okay,
something that everything the carriage just said, everything that Carriages
(38:02):
articulated makes me think about something that I actually suffer from,
and that is hiding behind my work. Everything that much
of what you just said, you're articulating how you try
(38:24):
to fuse who you are, where you are in your
process as a human being, and how you apply all
of that into your work and specifically on prison. Yeah,
but I would say more broadly, just who you are
on the planet, and that unprisoned is informing that it's
(38:46):
not the other way around, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
For me.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And you mentioned that little boy one episode we had him,
that young man as my and a child in one
episode last in season one, that scene Carrie where he
came and held my hand.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
And the beautiful thing about kids so often they're just
they're just being just being kids. They're just being kids,
they're just being human beings. And there was this profound
Oh god, there was this profound he came in here,
openness and just thereness, and that connected me with who
(39:37):
I might have been as a child. And it was,
it was, it was, it was if you, it was.
It was a really strong scene for all of us.
To your question. My response to your question is, I
(40:02):
am not sure. Honestly, I'm really not sure what my
relationship is to In the work, one does one's job.
(40:27):
The result of one doings one doing one's job, you
then share that with audiences and it lands, however, it
lands in a job like this and various other jobs
that I've done that have that have that have meant
something to people. I don't. Necessarily I do not unless
(40:48):
I'm asked by a journalist tell me about X, tell
me about one. I don't deconstruct how or why. But
I'm kind of compelled to deconstruct when I'm asked for
and questions when I'm engaging in certain conversations. So when
you say to me, what about you, mister Lindo, my
first response is.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And on some level that's a that's a that's that's
that's a scary place to be. But it affirms that
throughout all of my foibles, all of my insecurities, all
of my neuroses as a as a human being, something
in the work centrally has some value to my fellow
(41:38):
human beings. And that's why one wants to be an
actor in the first place.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
Is it because the character Edwin is forcing Delroy lindo
to have to deal with some things that del Roy
Lindo's never dealt with. Because I was gonna ask, like,
even with the inner child thing, you know, you being
an elder, does your inner child.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Ever get the healing they deserve?
Speaker 5 (41:58):
And because they say when you're eat questions, when you
get to your age now. It's like you go back
to great question. Great question. And I would say that
I'm navigating that. I don't know if it's my inner child.
I guess it is my inner child. I'm navigating that as.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
We speak, partially through the work, but I'm also running
a memoir right now, and in and in and and
Carrie and I have talked about this somewhat, but then
and in engaging in that process and engaging in stuff
that happened to me when I was four or five, six, seven,
eight years old? Right right?
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
How does one understand that? How does one get to
a place of understanding with that stuff? And I'm I'm
I'm unpacking all of that right now. So I would
say I would say that this I know more now
than I knew four five years ago. I know more
(43:07):
now than I did ten years ago. For sure, your question,
how is that for you, mister Lindo, It's it's it's
it's an unfolding and evolving process as we speak.
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Because but even that, I'm sorry, I don't want to
interrupt you. Go ahead carry even that as I sit
here watching you as one of our greatest, as one
of our wisest as one of our best. It's for
you to have the courage to sit at a table
and say, I don't know, I'm in process, I'm unpacking,
(43:43):
I'm unfolding. That gives so many of us permission to
be in process. And to me, that's so much of
what we need is just the permission to not have
to like walk out the door and be perfect and
have all the answers, but to say, like, it's okay
that I have days where I'm not sure. It's okay
that I have days when I need help. And I
(44:06):
think I think that's one of the things that I
love about our show is that we're so in process.
We are a family that is so in processed, but
there's so much joy. Like we're not pulling our guts
out to suffer. We're doing the work because you get
to see all through the season every time we do
(44:26):
the work. On the other side is more love, is
more joy, is more acceptance, more belonging, even.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
When the love is flawed, Even when the love is flawed.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Right, yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Is flawed all day long. Right, And we're we're what's this,
We're in the We're in the mud man and we're
trying to see it and and mold it and fit
all that. And that's profoundly human. You said something, it's
profoundly human. You said something that's connected to what we're
(44:59):
discussing right now. You said, I'm going on Stephen Colbert tonight.
Did you say that given the events of the last
what day is this Tuesday?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Thursday? When it is okay? All right? So given the
events of uh since last Friday and Saturday and Sunday,
and you're going onto a You're going into a a
sphere where I don't know if you're going to talk
about that.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
But we are because it's live after the convention to.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Night, okay, And I'm wondering, and this is too, This
is this speaks to how how we connect with ourselves
and how we communicate in the world. How much realness
do you bring to that.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
All of it? Because this is a moment that's way
bigger than us right now.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's way bigger than that in us, And I'm scared
right now.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
We're at a very pivotal point in our society.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Right now, but it's more pivotal than the pivotal than
how pivotal it was last week.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Yes, of course, yes, of course, Sharper.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Now because the way this has come down in the
last four or five days absolutely scary. Oh, it's terrified
about what.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
The Supreme Court is doing, what I don't even think
is in a legitimate court anymore.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
On top of on the way there's a yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
It's a lot, it's a lot, and and and what
we're what we've been talking about in this, in this,
in this, in this conversation has to do with a
certain kind of truth that we as actors are trying
to get to. Truth for ourselves as human beings, truth
for ourselves as as as creative workers. And we're trying
(46:49):
to bring all of that together, and we're and we're
we're putting it out there and now we the next
another dimension of having messed around with that truth is
now dealing with how that truth has impacted our actors,
I'm sorry, our audiences.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Which is crazy as is. You know, Carrie, A lot
of this seems like scandal. A lot of it seems
like we've seen it before on your show. Can you
talk about that, how this seems like it's like it's
reliving again and.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
It was a whole episode of Scandal that this happened, yes, life, Yes,
because people were saying people were saying, it's stage, but
we know it's not stage.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
But the episode of Scandal when he did stage it.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
Yeah, I think you know. One of the things that
that I want us to be talking about more is
that too many of us are not participating in the process.
Are not are thinking that it's okay to not vote,
our feeling like there's no point in participating.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
They set up like that, Carrie, the process is set
up like that.
Speaker 6 (47:58):
I know, I know, but let me let me just say.
What concerns me is that so much of it stems
from this belief that we have internalized that we don't matter.
And that's part of why this work that we do
matters to me, is because we tell these stories so
that people see themselves, so that they know that they matter.
(48:20):
And I want people to participate in our democratic process
because I want you to know that you matter. Like
this word democracy is getting thrown around, what I want
to remind people is that what it means is a
government for the people. By now, we don't do that
perfectly in this country. I know that we all know that,
(48:41):
but we don't fix it by stepping out of the process.
And I know that that's hard, because life is very
hard for a lot of us, and we feel like
we want to step out of the process because the
process isn't made for us, and the process isn't isn't
working for us, and the process doesn't include us. We
(49:04):
have to force ourselves into the process because the alternative
is not a government by the people for the people,
but an autocrat, which means like a president who does
whatever he wants, he wants however he wants, and accountability.
They're not being coy about it, like they have a
(49:25):
very clear point by point this project twenty five it
will have a catastrophic impact on education, on healthcare, on
the economy, and they're not being shy about it. They
are telling us that they want to change the government
so that it is no longer a government by the
(49:46):
people for the people, that it doesn't even have that
dream that it's going to be a government for the
president and his friends, and we are not his friends.
Speaker 5 (49:56):
I'm wondering, if you know, the way the Supreme Court
is set up beca not even a legitimate institution anymore.
I'm wondering, right now, are we do we even have
a healthy enough democracy to have a free and fair
election in November.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Okay, totally legitimate question. One thing carry for all of
us because this is this is this is it's beyond
critically important. It's existential. It's existential. I don't think that
(50:27):
the people who are not participating are necessarily doing it
consciously internalized. They've internalized this narrative that says, as you said,
you don't matter, it doesn't matter, you don't count, it
doesn't matter, and you internalize that and then it becomes
w t F. That's right, that's what we have.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
That's what we have to address when sorry.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
No, no, that's what has to be addressed. That's that's
what has to be on some level, the process in
which folk have internalized just what you said, it doesn't matter.
How do we unpack that, How do we deconstruct that
and say, yeah, it matters, And how do we articulate
that in a way that turns them on, flips the
(51:18):
switch for them.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
I don't know when.
Speaker 6 (51:22):
I don't know, but I do, But I do know
that all the concerns we have will not be fixed
by stepping out of the process, by deciding that there's
nothing we can do that will not for sure be
that will not move us toward a solution. So don't don't.
(51:42):
I don't know what each person wants to do, but
there's so much that we can do right now. We
can check our own voter registration. We can reach out
to five friends who we know aren't planning to vote
and beg them, try to help them to understand. Because
the best person to communicate somebody to the importance of
voting as somebody's friend or family member, not a celebrity,
not a politician, not anything. We can all support grassroots organizations.
(52:07):
There are grassroots organizations all over the country who are
doing the heavy work of democracy building. We can support
those organizations. We can focus on local races. We can volunteer,
we can make phone calls. We can if we have
the money to donate, we can do it. There's there
is so much that we can do. And I find
that when I am feeling hopeless and afraid, the more
(52:31):
that I click into community and try to do something,
the better I feel. So, even if it's just like
a part of your own mental health strategy, because I
believe that that participating in politics is part of how
I exercise self care and self love like I express
my love for my community by showing up in my
(52:52):
democratic process because I know that it matters.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
This is the Black Dinner table. You think about all
the issues we.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
Come biracial, coming from jail.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Everything.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
God, I mean, we appreciate you guys for joining us
so much.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
We need you guys.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
We need you guys back and especially uh, you know, individually,
so we can talk about your both of your careers anniversary.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
We got to discuss almost die. Oh, I know, I got,
I know, y'all got to go.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
I do have to ask the Romeo on the die
question because mister Lindo, you worked with a Lea, you
played a Leah's father. Does it make you appreciate life
more because you're still here at seventy one and those
two beautiful individuals have.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yes, Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. And that I
didn't know DMX as well, uh because we didn't work together.
But that young lady was such a beautiful spirit man
and I don't know she had this, I didn't know
who she was before we did the film. Extraordinarily beautiful spirit.
(53:59):
She was like a spune. She just wanted she wanted
to learn. She wanted to she wanted to move herself
forward in terms of whatever her public, what, what her
image was. The young lady that I knew, that I
interacted with was a profoundly beautiful spirit. You know, it
(54:21):
broke my heart when we lost her.
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Man, you remember where you were.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
I know exactly where I was. I was in the
e r with my son. I was in the room
with my son. My son had developed this breathing thing,
and we took him to the hospital. It is being
seen by a doctor. And I stepped outside. I stepped
outside to the parking lot and I started getting all
these texts, so sorry to hear, so sorry to hear.
(54:48):
And I said what what what? What? And I and
then a friend of mine said, oh my god, we
lost a Leah. And I screamed out and I didn't know.
I screamed that there were two sisters in the parking
lot and they said, sir, are you all right? And
that's where I was. I was in the I was
in the Oakland Children's Hospital in the parking lot when
(55:09):
I found out about a Leah. Wow. So to your question, man,
and one doesn't always think about these things in these
kinds of terms. I'm so I'm so fortunate to still
be here. But man, yeah, and then DMX, we didn't
(55:30):
have any scenes together. I was walking down Canal Street.
I was walking on Canal and Houston Street and this
car pulls up, a big black SUV and the window
rolls down. It's d MX. Yo yo yo yo yo. Man,
keep doing what you're doing now, bet that that that
was it. But the respect, the connection, you know what
(55:51):
I mean. So the fact that they are no longer
here and I am I'm I'm being a parent, I'm working,
I'm doing im important, I'm having important communications with important people.
And when I say important, I'm talking about people who
(56:12):
are culturally plugged in and committed to moving our culture forward.
But it's not just it's not just this cultural thing.
It's the fact that we happen to be human beings,
African descented human beings, and we're trying to move this
(56:32):
thing forward for all of us. And I got to
say this, it ain't just about black people. It's about
the condition of being a human being on the planet,
of what we contribute, what we continue to contribute, what
we contributed historically, and the fact that all the stuff
we bring to the table right in this process of
(56:53):
living that constantly gets downplayed and undervalued. And it's our jobs,
going back to what we talked about originally in the
beginning of this conversation, to interrupt that process and say, uh,
we're here, we're important, this is what we do, and
y'all have to listen to us. And it's critical to
(57:13):
tell those met to tell those stories to our children
because they will then take it that step further.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
All right, well, there you have it Season two.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Thank you, God, bless y'all.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
We thank you for joining us. Kerry Washington, Delroy Lindo,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Feel better, feel better, Wake that ass up in the morning.
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