September 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Today on The Breakfast Club, Demaurice Smith Talks 'Turf Wars,' NFL 'Unincorporated,' Colin Kaepernick, Shedeur Sanders. Listen For More!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every day a week ago, clicks.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Up the breakfast club.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
You're finish, the y'all done morning. Everybody is the j
Envy Jess, hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud. We are to breakfast club.
Lawla roses here as well. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed, he said, just call them
dep deep, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Morris Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome man, there's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
I'm sorry I'm a little late. I would have crushed
breakfast had I been here earlier.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, you still got time to get something done.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
But you're the former executive director of the nfl PA.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Tell us what that title helped you know?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Simply, you're the head of the union. You represent all
eighteen hundred and thirty five players. You go to war
with thirty one billionaires. You do the best to make
sure our guys get paid. You make sure that they
have health care, make sure that they have control over
their work. You govern their pensions, their post career training, everything.
(00:56):
So you're the union representing a lot of players and
they're look, they're for most of our guys, it's their
first job, which makes it difficult to sometimes represent them.
Because they've never had the kind of jobs I had
coming up paper routes, working at a pizza place. Those
guys come into the business of football believing and understanding
(01:17):
how to play the game. They know virtually nothing about
the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business. And
your job is the head of the union. At least
for me, I only had one way of doing it.
You know, my coach used to call it ten toes
to the line every day, going up against the guys
who you know, sit in the sky suites and want
our dudes to work. And then the other thing is, man,
(01:39):
just tell the guys the truth. And sometimes they don't
want to hear it because they've grown up in a
culture of football that rewards them for everything they do
on the field, and they have a misunderstanding that Jerry
Jones doesn't care wow, and robber Craft doesn't care. And
you know, there's always that sign on draft Day that says,
(02:01):
welcome to the NFL family. And I told the same
rookies for fourteen years, you are not in the family
because you are not in the will. It's reality. I
mean again, some guys don't like to hear that because
it's a little brutal. That's where I came from, and
that's kind of the way I want to do business.
(02:22):
But you're not in the will.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
What's the most difficult thing you have to deal with
with being headed at union? As far as dealing with teams?
What's the worst thing that the most thing that they
hate giving up? And I'm sure you can control control
what type of control all of it?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You know? I forget it was listening to Dion, who
was always great to me. He always had this line,
you either you either chase the game or chase the bag, right,
you know the bag, you chase the money, And sometimes
our guys are just focused on the money. What drives
the NFL is control. They want to control everything and
(02:55):
a you know, for example, up until twenty eleven, the
National Football League had the unilateral right, exclusive right to
add as many games to the schedule as possible.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was just crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
They could have gone up to twenty one games, twenty
three games if they wanted to. I mean, I'm a
little older than everybody else in the room. Don't say
anything else, happy birthday, But I remember a fourteen game season.
I remember a sixteen game season, you know, when it
went from fourteen to sixteen, the players never got any
more money. Wow, I don't know nobody does, right, it's
(03:27):
they No. From when they went from a twelve game
season to a fourteen game season to a sixteen game season,
they never got an increased shaff revenue.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I get it because the contract contract already sept for
the you.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You you just spread out the money along day, right,
And even guys when I came in in two thousand
and nine didn't understand that. Right. Yes, revenue increases, so
the cap goes up, but it's just like you know,
you're working at a I worked at Jerry's subshop, right,
you work Monday through Friday, Boston, give a you know
how you how you deal with your life or what
(04:02):
you've got going that day. But if the guy comes
in and says, hey, man, I got a good idea.
Everybody's gonna work on Saturday and Sunday, first question out
of my mouth would be what how much overtime on
a game? When they went from twelve to fourteen to sixteen,
the players never got paid overtime excury. So in twenty eleven,
I mean we went through a war. I mean they
(04:23):
declare a war on us. I do war. The big
win for the players in twenty eleven was we wrestled
back that unilateral control and we got the ability to
govern our work. So you know that resulted in you know,
you fast forward to twenty twenty. The league wanted a
seventeenth game. Fine, you know, the players wanted a seventeenth game. Fine.
(04:46):
Some players didn't won a seventeenth game. Fine, but it's
a democracy, so the players voted for a seventeenth game.
The kicker there was the league bought a seventeenth game
in twenty twenty for approximately one point six one point
seven billion dollars over a ten year period. It was
a game they had for free in twenty eleven. The
(05:09):
game of football. The reason I wrote the book. It's
about power, and I think that at the end of
the day, I never wanted a football book because I'm
not a football guy. I was. My high school coach
will tell you I was probably the worst high school
football player he's ever seen. But I wanted to write
Turf Wars because it's about power.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I love the header it says to fight for the
soul of America's game because I thought to myself, does
the NFL have a soul.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
The NFL does not have a soul. The players have
a soul, right, And the NFL is the largest, most unregulated,
socialistic business in America. The NFL privatizes their wealth and
socializes their cost.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So you think about stadiums, for example, every state and
local government goes through a referendum to get taxpayers to
pay for the owners stadium. We pay for it. He
keeps the profit. So would they do better than anybody
else in the country. There are no ten ks, there
(06:18):
are no ten qs, There is no annual report, there's
no public board of directors, there's no sec control, there's
no attorney general control, there's no state attorney general control.
They are a completely unregulated business. Up to a few
years ago, the NFL League Office was a five oh
(06:40):
one c six nonprofit. They're gonna do twenty five billion
dollars next year.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
How can a corporation like that be a nonprofit not
a corporation?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
But I'm saying, got time breakdown a little history, all right. So,
first thing that happens in nineteen sixties, they have the
AFL American Football League and the NFL. Those two entities merge, right,
So think about it, like Low's and Home Depot. Right,
if Loans and Home Depot merged, what would be the
(07:12):
price of hammer five hundred dollars?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Because there's no competition In the nineteen sixties, That's exactly
what the NFL did. They became the merger of Low's
and Home Depot. So they merged. The only way they
could merge was they needed special legislation from Congress, which
they got. So think about it. The taxpayers, who these
dudes are supposed to work for, allowed the NFL and
(07:39):
the AFL to merge, which basically meant they eliminated all
of the competition from now until the end of time.
First thing that happened. Second, under the Sports Broadcasting Act,
they also have the unique ability of negotiating singular television contracts.
So instead of the RAMS doing a TV contract, or
(07:59):
the Patriot It's or anybody else, the NFL does one
big TV contract a year. Virtually nobody else can do that,
So they've cornered the market on the merger, cornered the
market on media. At the end of the day, all
of the teams are not corporations. They are LLC's and
LLPs limited liability partnerships. So you know, my job is
(08:22):
to audit the teams, which you know gave me an
ulcer and you know, got me addicted to Johnny Walker Blue.
But you think of those corporations, you take something like
the Dallas Cowboys, there is no one singular Dallas Cowboy entity.
They're made up of dozens of little LLPs and LLCs.
(08:42):
They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other,
they pay each other. So the way this thing works
from a tax liability standpoint is that they do everything right.
You know what they pay in taxes at the end
of the year. Yeah, so they're not a corporation. They
don't file anything public. Make it even crazier, you cannot
(09:05):
find an audited financial statement for any NFL team or
the NFL as it exists. They do not create audited
financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So when they put those numbers out and they say, hey,
we made this year this amount this year, that's just
something they're throwing out there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There's just something they're throwing out there. And you know,
and look, I like magazines like Fortune that do the
valuations of teams that's not based on any audited financial statement.
I mean, the only people who audit them is the
NFL Players Association, and we can't talk about how much money.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I always wanted to know what a player is. There
certain things that they cannot give a certain player, like,
for instance, let's say I don't want to say I'll
use Lebron James, right. I know it's not the same sport.
But let's say I wanted Lebron to stay on my
team right right now, he's probably the biggest player, biggest draw.
Could they Could they give Lebron a percentage of a team?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No? Why is not? Because I like Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Why didn't you ask about I'm.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Trying to play, Yeah, who has the leveraged.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Patrick Mahomes, Pat Trady or Brady Tom Tom somebody like that.
Would they give a percentage?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Because they would?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They would? They is a different question. I think the
answer is no. No team wants to give a player
a share of the team because no team wants to
give up that control. Right. But to your question, can
they pay them that if the player demanded No, because
that would be a violation of the salary cap. So
(10:41):
the way the salary cap work, I mean, I'll make
it really simple. You take all of the revenue that
you generate in in sport. Players get about fifty percent
of that revenue, that all, and then you divide that
by thirty two teams. That's salary cap. Which it's not
that complicated. If you gave an individual player a certain
ownership interest in the team, that would be a violation
(11:02):
of the salary cap rules. And here's why.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And wouldn't all the owners have to agree on it?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh, all the owners.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Would have to agree on it, and they never would
like you got to play it like Brady right and
said Brady says.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I want to I want to leave New England.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Can't do it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
They said, you know what would give you one percent
of the team.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Can't disdain he can't do it. I mean, look, if
the players wanted to negotiate a new CBA and made
and made that, you know, something that the players would
want more power to them. I think it would be uh.
I would think it would be a bigger fight than
you saw Kaepernick deal with because none of the players.
You know, again, these are for the most part, these
teams fall into two big categories. Either they are family
(11:37):
owned teams. You know, the Rooneyes, the Maras, the Hunts,
or it's a set of owners who made some outside
money and they bought a team and they're generating money
for their own They do not want to share anything, right.
I mean, I'll give you the best example. There is
no NFL team in the country that couldn't give their
(12:02):
city a percentage of the team if they wanted taxpayers
to help pay them for a stadium. Think about San Diego.
A few years ago, they wanted to stay in San Diego,
they put up a referendum to see if taxpayers would
pay for a new stadium. Taxpayers, overwhelmingly in San Diego
said nah, we don't want to use our tax money
(12:23):
for a new stadium. So the Chargers left and went
to Los Angeles. The only thing Dean Spanos had to
do if he really wanted to stay in San Diego,
if he put his money where his mouth is and said,
I want the fans of San Diego to love us.
I love the city of San Diego. The only thing
(12:45):
he had to do was to do what you asked
about Lebron. He could have gone to the city of
San Diego and said, hey, look, I want taxpayer revenue
to build a stadium. Here's what I'll do. I'll give
the city of San Diego five percent of the team,
and the Medisons will own part of the churches. Did
you do that, No.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Some type of structure like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
They have a different structure the city and shareholders own
on the team. And you know why that happened, right,
because it's all history and I'm just I'm just a
dork at the end of the day. Right. So, you know,
back in the day, you know, you had all of
these teams based in these traditional textile cities, you know,
Kansas City, Green Bay, you know, Chicago, Pittsburgh. I mean,
(13:32):
these are working class towns that I'm not knocking any
any of those cities, but those cities did not become
Los Angeles, Boston, and in Atlanta or certainly New York. Right.
So you've got a little team in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Green Bay, Wisconsin. Everybody there knew that if we don't
figure out something to try to keep this team in
(13:54):
Green Bay, this team is going to another place. And
this is before this is Beforeville, this is before expansion
teams anywhere else. Yeah, So the deal was they figured
out a way of woe. We will give you everything
you want for a new stadium. But here's here's the pull.
(14:14):
We want the city to own the stadium and own
the team. And they said yes. But from the day
green Bay was the green Bay Packers went to a
public ownership, how many teams followed that model to stay
in their traditional city? Not one pure greed, pure greed
(14:35):
and pure control. Right, And so you know, look, I
wanted to write this book. Again, I'm not a football guy.
I wanted to write this book because the way that
the NFL is run is the way that our country
is run.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Down. I'm here for that.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If you if you looked behind the current president's inauguration,
who was standing behind him? All the rich billionaire guys. Right,
it is about control over money. If you have control,
you will have the money for us to figure out
a way how to get back to a system that
(15:11):
truly represents us, to have congressmen and congressomomen who truly
represent us. We all have to understand that this is
all about power. It has it is, yes, I get it.
Everybody wants to focus on money. It's about control and power.
And if you are either unwilling or unable to go
(15:33):
ten toes to the line to confront power like a
player's union did for fifteen years. You're just gonnat your
ass beat and the reality is man, you can I
love the eight years of Obama, but everything from the
middle end of his term until now. We lost the
(15:53):
women's right to abortion, we have lost the Voting Rights Act.
We have lost the ability needs to control redistricting and
jerrymandering in state houses DC. My home city is a
home city that's got the National Guard patrolling. Let's get
it clear. They're only patrolling the safe areas in DC.
(16:14):
Let's not get it twisted right. They're not in The
National Guard is not in Southeast.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Where I grew up.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Really, they're downtown at Union Station happening. I mean, unless
somebody drops an ice cream cone, you know. But again,
you know, you're looking at a president that literally federalized
the occupation of the nation's capital, and that's where I
grew up, that's where my parents grew up. But this
(16:43):
is a president and a party that has run rough
shod and I'm a Democrat. They have run rough shot
over the Democratic Party for the last fifteen to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's been a blow up.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Been a blowout, and my critique of the Democratic Party
a misunderstanding of power. These people are not to be
negotiated with. They are not to be trusted. You cannot
sit there and decide that you are going to make
some sort of agreement with them and expect for them
(17:21):
to hold up their side of the agreement. They're not
going to do it.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
We magic question if the Democrats based off this analogy
are the players and the Republicans are the owners.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Who's the NFLPA.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
NFLPA is the players, NFL YEAHA is a union man
of Democrats in this situation. Democrats in this situation. I mean,
it's it's put it this way. I mean, I had
a rough fight over fifteen years. I mean everything from
the Flategate to ray Rice to cap to COVID. I'm
not saying we won every fight, but we fought every fight.
(17:55):
And you lose one of the fights, you don't want
to fight.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The Republicans, that definitely don't.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And I think in this analogy, at the end of
the day, look, I don't have any friends at the
nationale Football League. I Am not going to get a
holiday gift from any one of these I know it's
a family show, so I keep it clean. I'm not
gonna have any family show from these mfs. I mean
I was gonna. You know, my mom might be listening.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
She's like, normally I would go Look, I go with
Harbor with our guys, right, because hard with our.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Good God, like, are you drinking?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I don't know what's in this. No, I go hard
with our guys because look, our guys come into the
NFL system believing that because they are one of the
top two hundred and fifty guys that make it to
the league every year when they walk across the stage
at the draft, it always boiled my blood that our
(19:12):
dudes hugged Roger Goodell like he gave them some shit.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
They didn't earn it.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, the only reason you were on the stage is
you were one of the top two hundred and fifty guys.
He didn't give you anything, So shake his fucking hand
like a grown ass man, right, and then walk away.
I mean, I worked for big law firms.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They gave me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You know, I got great jobs. There. There was a
day and I didn't walk in and hug the managing
partner like he gave me some stuff. I think you
have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these
people are out to blow us out.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
How did you look at Roger Goodett? Did you look
at him as moyal but an outlier adversary.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Pure ass adversary. Wow, I mean, look Roger, I mean he.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
He's there to protect the owners basically.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That's not even basically. I mean he the commissioner is
a myth. So they created this title called commissioner way
back in the day because it makes us think, Oh,
the dude's in the middle and he's just making sure
that football is good for the players and football is
good for the good for the owners. No, Roger gets
paid sixty three million dollars a year sixty four. I
(20:20):
mean he may have gotten the bonus. I don't know.
I don't I don't get you, and I know I
know when we do have lunch, he buys. So No,
he gets paid sixty three sixty four million dollars to
represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life.
I'm not even mad about the money, is the plane.
(20:40):
That's the kind of thing where you're.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like Jesus, No football him to be objective about players.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
He's not paid to be an Are you able to
beat his?
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Well, were you able to beat his honest when you
were in your role.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I mean, I cannot get a gif. I came from
out of football. Just background for me. I was a
homicide prosecutor for eight years in DC. After that I
went to a big law firm. I didn't have anything
to do with sports when I got elected into the job.
So I came after a you know what I consider
a legend, a guy named Gene Upshaw who was the
former executive director. But Jean died in the job. You know,
(21:19):
he went into the hospital on a Wednesday and died
on a Sunday. And you know I ran against two
former NFLPA presidents and you know I won. They didn't.
So I always took the job from a standpoint of
I never looked for an NFL job. I never wanted
to work for a team. I don't need anything from
the owners. I wasn't there to become your friend. So
(21:43):
I know how to do one thing. I know how
to do war right, and I know how to how
I was hired at Latham and these big, big law
firms to basically represent the richest, biggest companies in the
world and do game strategy.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
That's what I know how hard was it for you
navigating a Colin Kaepernick situation because people felt like y'all
were hands off.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
You are very vocal, it seemed like you would be
hands off.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But I wasn't hands off on that one. Yeah. You know,
the first person to do an interview after Colin nelt
was me because I knew exactly how the league was
going to turn that story. And you know, I didn't
know that he was going to kneel. You know, it
was a preseason game, and I remember getting a call
from one of my PR guys that this is now
(22:29):
going to be a thing. It's going to be a
thing tomorrow. So I gave an interview with the nation
I think that night or that morning to frame this
is why he's kneeling, and this is why he's doing it.
But I also knew in a heartbeat that again going
back to this power man, once the league realized that
this is an individual player making a political statement that
(22:54):
is rooted in history and rooted in fact, I knew
in a nanosecond that they were going to come after
him and come after anybody who supported him. That's just
the way they played the game, right And so for me,
you know, I go into game mode, you know, first,
make sure that the message is out there in two.
If there ever comes a day when we believe that
(23:15):
he is going to be blackballed for what he's doing,
that's why we joined his lawyers and we sued the
National Football League for blackballer.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
I know you talk about it in your book a bit,
but do you feel like he was black.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Ball one hundred percent? I mean, look at I don't
want to say anything that gets a whole bunch of
other quarterbacks mad at me. But in the year that
Colin wasn't signed other than the top five quarterbacks in
(23:46):
the league, you know at that time, and I'm just
talking about everybody from from Braiding, from Brady to Aaron Rodgers,
everybody in the middle, Breeze, Pat Peyton, everybody. Colin was
one of the top ten quarterbacks in the league. I
mean everybody there were. There were a bunch of other
guys who had jobs, quarterback jobs. I don't think it's
(24:09):
close that he was better than fifty percent of the
starting quarterbacks in the National Football League at the time.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
When he worked out with the Raiders are when I know,
when Rock Nation had put together the workout that he
was supposed to go to, but then he went somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You the one in it, Yeah, the tryout in it
in Atlanta?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, what do you think of those two situations? They
were just for shore or Hey.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Look, I nobody was more stunned than me that he
didn't go through with that tryout in Atlanta. I know
that there was a fight over some waiver or or
something like that. But you know, there were a bunch
of college scouts there, I'm sorry, a bunch of pro
scouts there. Sorry about that pro scouts there, and he decided,
(24:54):
you know, for his own reasons, that that he wasn't
going to throw that day. That that surprised me. He
had disappointed me.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
He just went up the.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Road he did.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
He went to a high school, high.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
School where all the all the all the scouts want.
Speaker 9 (25:08):
Yeah, you know, and again I just can't be blunt, right,
But there were also dudes catching for him that day
who were looking for jobs to They didn't go to.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
The houschol got you got you got you got, you
got you.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So look, the you lose one hund of the fights,
you don't fight, right. If if I would have had
to wave way to a magic Wand would I have
wanted him to go throw that day and in front
of a bunch of scouts and show off that freakin'
arm and show off you know, his feet and his footwork.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Yes, you go to be hard to keep him out
of the league after that if he had a good show.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yes, yeah, because I think the pressure shifts, right. I mean,
everybody was there in Atlanta. Press was there, scouts are there. Man,
he is going to do well. And it is, at
least from the way that I look at the game strategy,
it becomes incredibly hard from that moment for the league
(26:09):
to continue to hold him out of the league when
you've got thirty some odd scouts there, the media is there,
and he does well. I mean I just look at
pressure points, right. That puts the maximum amount of pressure
on the league at that moment. And what I have
loved to see him go through that process. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
But you know what, man, you know from your standpoint,
And I just got a couple of questions about Theavnick situation.
Why why him though, because he wasn't the only player kneeling,
so he was.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
The guy that started it. So you know, if you're
reading the you know and again, I just I'm just
a war guy. If you know, whether it's you know,
the Art of War or Machiavelli's Treatise on War, you know,
there isn't a warrior campaign in the world that doesn't
(26:59):
try to kill the League general, right, And nobody really
wants to talk about it that way. But I don't
care what war you have ever waged, or whatever war
any country has ever waged from literally the beginning of time.
(27:19):
If you get an opportunity to kill the general, you
kill the general. And I think that the League took
the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick because
it was a hope, and I think it was misguided.
I think it was a hope that if they show
(27:40):
the rest of the players that they can control what
happens to somebody with a loud voice, If they can
control someone who looks like they might be bigger than
the league, what do they do. They send a message
to that guy you and they say, oh no, no, no,
we can control and put a bullet and you, And
(28:01):
that's a message to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I don't think it did it from Neil.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
No, it didn't. And and honestly I thought that was
one of the That was one of the best times,
one of the few great times that I had in
the job, because guys responded to that in a way.
I'm always looking for guys to be to have a
lettle of solidarity between them. And I mean, the owners
are serial killers, Let's not again. They are absolute killers.
(28:28):
And for the union to survive, forget us winning, for
us to just survive, we need more solidarity on our
side than you do with the owners. And that's what
you saw with our guys. And then that you know,
that night after the President gave that speech in Huntsville,
you know where he called and said, you know, wouldn't
it be great if every owner right? I mean, I
(28:50):
am sure that he did not understand that he called
every NFL player's mothers.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Son of a bitch.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I mean, you know, from where we come from, you
can say a lot of things. You get to that point,
there is going to be a laying of hands on
you when you say. And I think when the Republicans
woke up that morning and realized that even Trump had
gone over the line by calling players mothers a bitch.
(29:22):
And that was the weekend you saw every player kneel.
I mean I talk about it in the book. I
flew to watch the Cowboys play, not because I'm a
Cowboys fan. I went, we can go look. I mean
that Michael Parsons thing work. I mean, you don't have
to talk about it.
Speaker 10 (29:42):
Okay, I don't know, you know, Okay, sharp objects, you
said that we that you went because.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I knew Jerry's team was gonna kneel. And you know,
Jerry had come out and said, nobody's kneeling on my
team because that's the way that he believes in control.
I knew his team was gonna kneel, and I wanted
to see what he was gonna do.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
He moved his.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Self from the end of the line to the middle
of the line and knelt because for the only time
that he has run that team, he understood the difference
between being on the train or being in front of
the train, and he chose to be on the train
because his guys decided as a group of men this
(30:31):
and I was proud of him. But that's the job, right.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Another question, because y'all see you got with Colin's lawyers
and you sewed the NFL.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, there was a settlement.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Do you think that's when leverage was lost. Was that
the right thing to do except to settlement?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, I mean, so we represented him with his lawyers.
His lawyers did the settlement. We didn't. I didn't know
about the settlement. I woke up and saw it on
the news.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh so the NFLV he didn't even know about it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
No, that doesn't make since welcome to part of my job.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
That's how people were confused about it. I saw. I
was saying with the hands on, hands off things.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
People were confused where y'all stood because things were happening
and y'all and.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
It's hard because you know, again, you know, I'm a lawyer,
and lawyers have attorney client privilege. I didn't know about
the settlement. The NFL paid did not know about the settlement.
We woke up and found out about it that morning,
and as a result, it dismissed our part of the
case against the league. That's the way it happens. He
has the right to do that. He has the right
(31:30):
to be represented by his own lawyers. Fine. At the
same time, you know, I always tried to not second
guest lawyers, you know, because I'm not there. I don't
know what the terms of the settlement were I don't
know how much money exchanged hands. I wasn't involved in negotiations,
so I'm not gonna I'm not going to second guess
(31:51):
another lawyer, but I will say this, the nflpa's job
is to protect players, and again, I only know one
way of doing that, and that is to start off
at one hundred miles an hour and go to one
hundred and fifty and if there's something in the way,
you run over it. We were more interested in the
(32:16):
facts of who made the decision to black ball a quarterback,
a black quarterback of the National Football League. I'm interested
in what's in your phone. I'm interested in what emails
you're sending. I'm interested because I get all of that
in discovery, right, just like the you know, the collusion
(32:38):
lawsuit that I filed against the players after Deshaun Watson.
I filed that lawsuit before I left. I wasn't there
for the ruling, But the reason I filed that lawsuit is, Man,
we're looking for the truth because the truth gives us
the ability to fight the control right. So my job
(32:59):
in any callue usion lawsuit, man, I'm going hard and
there's nothing to settle for the for the right.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So once you take all that money, you you you
waive all the rights to set the discovery and everything.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It's like you don't care about you don't care about
the actual issue anymore.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You never got it.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Okay, So I'm not second guessing anyone, but we're all
you all on the same.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Page about that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Obviously, not anybody read the book. Yeah, there's stuff that
I'm trying to avoid saying saying because I had conversations
with their side of the lawyer. So I can't divulge anything.
But I can tell you that I woke up and
found out about the settlement from I think ESPN le.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Me, what were your thoughts on the way to handle
the Sanders young man control same situation?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Do you think that would think about?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Who?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Look, I don't know what happened, you know, I borrow
this line from from James Baldwin all the time. I
don't know if in your heart you're a racist, but
I see what you do. Right. So I look at
the way in which a young black man knelt during
(34:12):
a preseason game and the league turned. I believe every
gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick. And again, let's
be clear, he didn't interrupt a game. He didn't kneel
on the field, he didn't stop the game in any way.
(34:33):
This was all before the game, right, So no one
can make an argument to me like they did during
anthem that well, you know, d this is impacting you know,
the economics of the game, or this is impacting football. No,
even if it's during the national anthem, this is before
the game, right. And I got to sit in the stands.
I look, I watch guys in the in the stands
(34:54):
during the national anthem, buying another beer, swinging another beer.
You go to Baltimore in the middle of the national anthem,
they yell, oh in favor of the Baltimore Orioles. If
you're going to say that that's disrespectful for him kneeling,
it's disrespectful. Just as respectful for you to say something
about the Baltimore Orioles during the national anthem. But I
don't see anybody you know, pulling down or turning guns
(35:18):
on dudes on that. They went after Colin because he
was iconic and they were afraid that what he was
doing would lead to other people doing things and they
would lose control. Then you get to the shod right,
(35:40):
I don't know. I'm just being nice on the But
then you get to Shud and again I wasn't. Nobody
invites me into the draft rooms. But I asked myself
a pretty simple linear question, is is he better than
(36:00):
Johnny Manziel Chadar Sanders.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Johnny Manziel, Yes in college? Come on, l was a
beast in college.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now come on, man like he? I mean, I like
Johnny Manziel. I mean, yeah, Johnny Zelle's two people. If
you put them side by side. As far as who
is more likely to be a pro caliber quarterback, Chadur
beats him to death. Right, it's inexplicable for him to
fall as far as he did in the draft. You
(36:31):
think about the number of quarterbacks that the NFL owners
pull off of the draft line. He was predictable first
round pull So so every other prognosticator is wrong and
the NFL is right. No, that doesn't make any sense.
I just go back to the number of quarterbacks that
(36:52):
they pulled off that line. After you get to the
middle of the second round. Every one of those quarterbacks
that you pulled off the line, I would have taken
Chador over any one of those dudes. So I find
it inexplicable except for one thing of why he would
drop so far in the draft on the draft side,
(37:14):
because remember, think about it, you draft this guy, you
know he still doesn't make the team. Right. I find
it inexplicable that a person of his caliber, the things
that he was able to accomplish in college, for him
to drop as far as he did in the draft round.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I agree with that. I disagree with the Johnny Manziel comparison.
Like Johnny Menzel was a beast, he won the Heisman Trophy,
Like Johnny was different college.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's something to pros, right, But there's a lot of
dudes in who do well in college. I guess we're
you know, we agree to disagree, But here I think
we can agree on there's only a lot of guys
who perform in a college system whose size and skill
will not make them terribly successful in the pro system.
(38:00):
And I think that when you look at the arm
strength and the size of Shador and what he was
able to demonstrate in college, both with his feet and
his ability to his ability to throw just crazy right,
what he was able to do in college mimicked what
I thought he should be able to do. In the
(38:21):
National Football League. But fine, we can disagree about all that.
I keep coming back to this guy dropped so far
in the draft despite everybody rating him at a much
higher level, and.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
Also the people like that. I think people were awaiting
like his debut. I think he was two point two
million views.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
It was the But doesn't so he plays well? We
know that, right.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
But his third scring on the Browns right now is
how much.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
You know Spring on the Browns right now?
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I guess what I would say is there are.
Speaker 8 (38:59):
I'm sorry, I was just asking how much does that matter?
Like because no one wanted to see him.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
None to an NFL scout, NFL coach, you know, quarterback,
quarterback coach, man, they don't care about likes man. They
care about whether you can deliver the ball in a
in a three x three box with you run and right,
throwing right, and whether or not you can throw that
ball on a line for thirty yards. That's what they
(39:25):
care about it. That's all they care about. My point is,
coming out of college, when you take all of the
predictors about Shador, did all of those predictive qualities point
to him going higher than when he came out. Yes,
and again I don't know, but I do know one thing.
(39:48):
There is not an NFL owner that liked the way
in which he carried himself in college. That is not
That is not their vibe.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right. It's so interesting about this conversation.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And I feel like, and I'm just going back to
this because I feel like, if Colin Kaepernick hadn't to
settle and went through with the collusion, and you're all
able to get these emails and everything else, improve who
was doing what? Owners would never be able to collude
against the player like they did sh your door ever
again it was president.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Or they would never be able to collude against players
like we found out in the most recent lawsuit. No,
this was I fouled the lawsuit against the National Football
League that they were colluding against players getting free agent contracts. Wow,
I'll file that in twenty twenty two or twenty three.
(40:44):
I was gone by the time the arbitrator ruled on
the case. And not throw any shade on my successor.
But it's easy. Well, facts, man, Facts hurt. And so
for whatever reason, it's still mind boggling to me my successor,
(41:06):
who's gone now decided that they would enter into a
secret agreement with the league and not tell the players
about the result of the lawsuit. And for whatever reason,
my successor told the players that the players lost the
collusion lawsuit that I filed, when in reality, the arbitrator
(41:26):
found that the management council that runs the National Football
League colluded and told teams not to urge teams not
to give guaranteed contracts to players. Now, that's something that
I would have told the players, because first of all,
they're entitled to know. And second, as soon as you
as soon as I would have found out that the owners,
(41:48):
the owners who run the league, you know, Craft, Jones,
Mara Rooney, all of those guys are on their executive committee.
Once I would have found out that those people told
the teams to not do guarantee contracts, I sue on
behalf of every player going back to twenty fifteen. That's
(42:09):
what I would have done, because look, you lose one
hundred percent of the fights. You never fight.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
So when you find out the owners of colluding to
what happens, I don't well if.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
In this case the conen for the for the owners,
it could be could be cataclysmic. I mean, think about it,
if if there were a player who I'm just gonna
try to make the math eas Let's just do Lamar,
you know, if Lamar or Russell Wilson or any of
(42:40):
these guys, the young man in San Diego, Herbert, sorry,
the Chargers Herbert. Let's just say that he wants a
fully guaranteed contract, and just to make the math easy,
he wants a fully guaranteed contract at three hundred million,
and the owner only gives him a contract of one
hundred and fifty million guaranteed. Theoretically, your damages are between
(43:02):
one hundred and fifty million and three hundred million that
he didn't get times every player that didn't get a
fully guaranteed contract. So you know, historically, if you think
about the one of the reasons the Major League Baseball
Union became so powerful. Yes, they went through a strike
in nineteen ninety four, but what really broke the owners
(43:24):
in the eighties and the nineties, the baseball owners they
lost collusion cases lost them. And how it's.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Billions, so cabinet could have started president.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Anyway, read the book to make I'm not trying to,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
It's ain't even about him. This is about how that
president could have been started to take these owners.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Because it's about the strategy of power.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yes, because you're writing the book. Owners aren't stupid. Morons
on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that
a single massive army is more powerful than thirty two
regional ones, especially while fending off an attack. And it
made me think about it, because you can have all
the money in the world, but if their unity and
group operation.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
One hundred percent, that keeps them in one hundred percent. Man,
you want to be the next executive director of the NFL. No,
I guess I had to do a pitch too much.
Pick up the Thank you appreciate it, you do.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Bill Simmons podcast, Man, I would love to, Yeah, I
would love to.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I would love to think y'all have a great column.
We love to turn for wars.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
DeMarcus Smith, thank you for having tomorrow drow d.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Just tomorrows. Yeah. My mom, my mom wanted to call
me Lot Cannard or my dad did, but thank god,
thank god, my mother stepped in.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
My name is Lenard. That's close.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, but Lot Connard is the duck. Yeah, that would
have been a little bit rough.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Would you look like a duck when you was born?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
As damn that. I just the man. It went from.
We were on such a when he was born.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
No, no, no, you know what, he's man.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
He's mad about the cowboys thing.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
Yeah, so salty, and so she was gonna name you Lochannard.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
She was My dad wanted to name me Locknard. My
mother was like, uh no.
Speaker 11 (45:11):
Yeah, Lenard means clown, so yeah, real crazy. We appreciate you,
but you guys, what just means what I.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Went show.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Thank you brother, the Breakfast Club this morning.
Speaker 6 (45:32):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
A week ago, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club
finished
Every day a week ago, clicks.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Up the breakfast club.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
You're finish, the y'all done morning. Everybody is the j
Envy Jess, hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud. We are to breakfast club.
Lawla roses here as well. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed, he said, just call them
dep deep, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Morris Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome man, there's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
I'm sorry I'm a little late. I would have crushed
breakfast had I been here earlier.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, you still got time to get something done.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
But you're the former executive director of the nfl PA.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Tell us what that title helped you know?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Simply, you're the head of the union. You represent all
eighteen hundred and thirty five players. You go to war
with thirty one billionaires. You do the best to make
sure our guys get paid. You make sure that they
have health care, make sure that they have control over
their work. You govern their pensions, their post career training, everything.
(00:56):
So you're the union representing a lot of players and
they're look, they're for most of our guys, it's their
first job, which makes it difficult to sometimes represent them.
Because they've never had the kind of jobs I had
coming up paper routes, working at a pizza place. Those
guys come into the business of football believing and understanding
(01:17):
how to play the game. They know virtually nothing about
the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business. And
your job is the head of the union. At least
for me, I only had one way of doing it.
You know, my coach used to call it ten toes
to the line every day, going up against the guys
who you know, sit in the sky suites and want
our dudes to work. And then the other thing is, man,
(01:39):
just tell the guys the truth. And sometimes they don't
want to hear it because they've grown up in a
culture of football that rewards them for everything they do
on the field, and they have a misunderstanding that Jerry
Jones doesn't care wow, and robber Craft doesn't care. And
you know, there's always that sign on draft Day that says,
(02:01):
welcome to the NFL family. And I told the same
rookies for fourteen years, you are not in the family
because you are not in the will. It's reality. I
mean again, some guys don't like to hear that because
it's a little brutal. That's where I came from, and
that's kind of the way I want to do business.
(02:22):
But you're not in the will.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
What's the most difficult thing you have to deal with
with being headed at union? As far as dealing with teams?
What's the worst thing that the most thing that they
hate giving up? And I'm sure you can control control
what type of control all of it?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You know? I forget it was listening to Dion, who
was always great to me. He always had this line,
you either you either chase the game or chase the bag, right,
you know the bag, you chase the money, And sometimes
our guys are just focused on the money. What drives
the NFL is control. They want to control everything and
(02:55):
a you know, for example, up until twenty eleven, the
National Football League had the unilateral right, exclusive right to
add as many games to the schedule as possible.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was just crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
They could have gone up to twenty one games, twenty
three games if they wanted to. I mean, I'm a
little older than everybody else in the room. Don't say
anything else, happy birthday, But I remember a fourteen game season.
I remember a sixteen game season, you know, when it
went from fourteen to sixteen, the players never got any
more money. Wow, I don't know nobody does, right, it's
(03:27):
they No. From when they went from a twelve game
season to a fourteen game season to a sixteen game season,
they never got an increased shaff revenue.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I get it because the contract contract already sept for
the you.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You you just spread out the money along day, right,
And even guys when I came in in two thousand
and nine didn't understand that. Right. Yes, revenue increases, so
the cap goes up, but it's just like you know,
you're working at a I worked at Jerry's subshop, right,
you work Monday through Friday, Boston, give a you know
how you how you deal with your life or what
(04:02):
you've got going that day. But if the guy comes
in and says, hey, man, I got a good idea.
Everybody's gonna work on Saturday and Sunday, first question out
of my mouth would be what how much overtime on
a game? When they went from twelve to fourteen to sixteen,
the players never got paid overtime excury. So in twenty eleven,
I mean we went through a war. I mean they
(04:23):
declare a war on us. I do war. The big
win for the players in twenty eleven was we wrestled
back that unilateral control and we got the ability to
govern our work. So you know that resulted in you know,
you fast forward to twenty twenty. The league wanted a
seventeenth game. Fine, you know, the players wanted a seventeenth game. Fine.
(04:46):
Some players didn't won a seventeenth game. Fine, but it's
a democracy, so the players voted for a seventeenth game.
The kicker there was the league bought a seventeenth game
in twenty twenty for approximately one point six one point
seven billion dollars over a ten year period. It was
a game they had for free in twenty eleven. The
(05:09):
game of football. The reason I wrote the book. It's
about power, and I think that at the end of
the day, I never wanted a football book because I'm
not a football guy. I was. My high school coach
will tell you I was probably the worst high school
football player he's ever seen. But I wanted to write
Turf Wars because it's about power.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I love the header it says to fight for the
soul of America's game because I thought to myself, does
the NFL have a soul.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
The NFL does not have a soul. The players have
a soul, right, And the NFL is the largest, most unregulated,
socialistic business in America. The NFL privatizes their wealth and
socializes their cost.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So you think about stadiums, for example, every state and
local government goes through a referendum to get taxpayers to
pay for the owners stadium. We pay for it. He
keeps the profit. So would they do better than anybody
else in the country. There are no ten ks, there
(06:18):
are no ten qs, There is no annual report, there's
no public board of directors, there's no sec control, there's
no attorney general control, there's no state attorney general control.
They are a completely unregulated business. Up to a few
years ago, the NFL League Office was a five oh
(06:40):
one c six nonprofit. They're gonna do twenty five billion
dollars next year.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
How can a corporation like that be a nonprofit not
a corporation?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
But I'm saying, got time breakdown a little history, all right. So,
first thing that happens in nineteen sixties, they have the
AFL American Football League and the NFL. Those two entities merge, right,
So think about it, like Low's and Home Depot. Right,
if Loans and Home Depot merged, what would be the
(07:12):
price of hammer five hundred dollars?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Because there's no competition In the nineteen sixties, That's exactly
what the NFL did. They became the merger of Low's
and Home Depot. So they merged. The only way they
could merge was they needed special legislation from Congress, which
they got. So think about it. The taxpayers, who these
dudes are supposed to work for, allowed the NFL and
(07:39):
the AFL to merge, which basically meant they eliminated all
of the competition from now until the end of time.
First thing that happened. Second, under the Sports Broadcasting Act,
they also have the unique ability of negotiating singular television contracts.
So instead of the RAMS doing a TV contract, or
(07:59):
the Patriot It's or anybody else, the NFL does one
big TV contract a year. Virtually nobody else can do that,
So they've cornered the market on the merger, cornered the
market on media. At the end of the day, all
of the teams are not corporations. They are LLC's and
LLPs limited liability partnerships. So you know, my job is
(08:22):
to audit the teams, which you know gave me an
ulcer and you know, got me addicted to Johnny Walker Blue.
But you think of those corporations, you take something like
the Dallas Cowboys, there is no one singular Dallas Cowboy entity.
They're made up of dozens of little LLPs and LLCs.
(08:42):
They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other,
they pay each other. So the way this thing works
from a tax liability standpoint is that they do everything right.
You know what they pay in taxes at the end
of the year. Yeah, so they're not a corporation. They
don't file anything public. Make it even crazier, you cannot
(09:05):
find an audited financial statement for any NFL team or
the NFL as it exists. They do not create audited
financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So when they put those numbers out and they say, hey,
we made this year this amount this year, that's just
something they're throwing out there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There's just something they're throwing out there. And you know,
and look, I like magazines like Fortune that do the
valuations of teams that's not based on any audited financial statement.
I mean, the only people who audit them is the
NFL Players Association, and we can't talk about how much money.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I always wanted to know what a player is. There
certain things that they cannot give a certain player, like,
for instance, let's say I don't want to say I'll
use Lebron James, right. I know it's not the same sport.
But let's say I wanted Lebron to stay on my
team right right now, he's probably the biggest player, biggest draw.
Could they Could they give Lebron a percentage of a team?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No? Why is not? Because I like Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Why didn't you ask about I'm.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Trying to play, Yeah, who has the leveraged.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Patrick Mahomes, Pat Trady or Brady Tom Tom somebody like that.
Would they give a percentage?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Because they would?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They would? They is a different question. I think the
answer is no. No team wants to give a player
a share of the team because no team wants to
give up that control. Right. But to your question, can
they pay them that if the player demanded No, because
that would be a violation of the salary cap. So
(10:41):
the way the salary cap work, I mean, I'll make
it really simple. You take all of the revenue that
you generate in in sport. Players get about fifty percent
of that revenue, that all, and then you divide that
by thirty two teams. That's salary cap. Which it's not
that complicated. If you gave an individual player a certain
ownership interest in the team, that would be a violation
(11:02):
of the salary cap rules. And here's why.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And wouldn't all the owners have to agree on it?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh, all the owners.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Would have to agree on it, and they never would
like you got to play it like Brady right and
said Brady says.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I want to I want to leave New England.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Can't do it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
They said, you know what would give you one percent
of the team.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Can't disdain he can't do it. I mean, look, if
the players wanted to negotiate a new CBA and made
and made that, you know, something that the players would
want more power to them. I think it would be uh.
I would think it would be a bigger fight than
you saw Kaepernick deal with because none of the players.
You know, again, these are for the most part, these
teams fall into two big categories. Either they are family
(11:37):
owned teams. You know, the Rooneyes, the Maras, the Hunts,
or it's a set of owners who made some outside
money and they bought a team and they're generating money
for their own They do not want to share anything, right.
I mean, I'll give you the best example. There is
no NFL team in the country that couldn't give their
(12:02):
city a percentage of the team if they wanted taxpayers
to help pay them for a stadium. Think about San Diego.
A few years ago, they wanted to stay in San Diego,
they put up a referendum to see if taxpayers would
pay for a new stadium. Taxpayers, overwhelmingly in San Diego
said nah, we don't want to use our tax money
(12:23):
for a new stadium. So the Chargers left and went
to Los Angeles. The only thing Dean Spanos had to
do if he really wanted to stay in San Diego,
if he put his money where his mouth is and said,
I want the fans of San Diego to love us.
I love the city of San Diego. The only thing
(12:45):
he had to do was to do what you asked
about Lebron. He could have gone to the city of
San Diego and said, hey, look, I want taxpayer revenue
to build a stadium. Here's what I'll do. I'll give
the city of San Diego five percent of the team,
and the Medisons will own part of the churches. Did
you do that, No.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Some type of structure like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
They have a different structure the city and shareholders own
on the team. And you know why that happened, right,
because it's all history and I'm just I'm just a
dork at the end of the day. Right. So, you know,
back in the day, you know, you had all of
these teams based in these traditional textile cities, you know,
Kansas City, Green Bay, you know, Chicago, Pittsburgh. I mean,
(13:32):
these are working class towns that I'm not knocking any
any of those cities, but those cities did not become
Los Angeles, Boston, and in Atlanta or certainly New York. Right.
So you've got a little team in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Green Bay, Wisconsin. Everybody there knew that if we don't
figure out something to try to keep this team in
(13:54):
Green Bay, this team is going to another place. And
this is before this is Beforeville, this is before expansion
teams anywhere else. Yeah, So the deal was they figured
out a way of woe. We will give you everything
you want for a new stadium. But here's here's the pull.
(14:14):
We want the city to own the stadium and own
the team. And they said yes. But from the day
green Bay was the green Bay Packers went to a
public ownership, how many teams followed that model to stay
in their traditional city? Not one pure greed, pure greed
(14:35):
and pure control. Right, And so you know, look, I
wanted to write this book. Again, I'm not a football guy.
I wanted to write this book because the way that
the NFL is run is the way that our country
is run.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Down. I'm here for that.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If you if you looked behind the current president's inauguration,
who was standing behind him? All the rich billionaire guys. Right,
it is about control over money. If you have control,
you will have the money for us to figure out
a way how to get back to a system that
(15:11):
truly represents us, to have congressmen and congressomomen who truly
represent us. We all have to understand that this is
all about power. It has it is, yes, I get it.
Everybody wants to focus on money. It's about control and power.
And if you are either unwilling or unable to go
(15:33):
ten toes to the line to confront power like a
player's union did for fifteen years. You're just gonnat your
ass beat and the reality is man, you can I
love the eight years of Obama, but everything from the
middle end of his term until now. We lost the
(15:53):
women's right to abortion, we have lost the Voting Rights Act.
We have lost the ability needs to control redistricting and
jerrymandering in state houses DC. My home city is a
home city that's got the National Guard patrolling. Let's get
it clear. They're only patrolling the safe areas in DC.
(16:14):
Let's not get it twisted right. They're not in The
National Guard is not in Southeast.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Where I grew up.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Really, they're downtown at Union Station happening. I mean, unless
somebody drops an ice cream cone, you know. But again,
you know, you're looking at a president that literally federalized
the occupation of the nation's capital, and that's where I
grew up, that's where my parents grew up. But this
(16:43):
is a president and a party that has run rough
shod and I'm a Democrat. They have run rough shot
over the Democratic Party for the last fifteen to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's been a blow up.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Been a blowout, and my critique of the Democratic Party
a misunderstanding of power. These people are not to be
negotiated with. They are not to be trusted. You cannot
sit there and decide that you are going to make
some sort of agreement with them and expect for them
(17:21):
to hold up their side of the agreement. They're not
going to do it.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
We magic question if the Democrats based off this analogy
are the players and the Republicans are the owners.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Who's the NFLPA.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
NFLPA is the players, NFL YEAHA is a union man
of Democrats in this situation. Democrats in this situation. I mean,
it's it's put it this way. I mean, I had
a rough fight over fifteen years. I mean everything from
the Flategate to ray Rice to cap to COVID. I'm
not saying we won every fight, but we fought every fight.
(17:55):
And you lose one of the fights, you don't want
to fight.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The Republicans, that definitely don't.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And I think in this analogy, at the end of
the day, look, I don't have any friends at the
nationale Football League. I Am not going to get a
holiday gift from any one of these I know it's
a family show, so I keep it clean. I'm not
gonna have any family show from these mfs. I mean
I was gonna. You know, my mom might be listening.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
She's like, normally I would go Look, I go with
Harbor with our guys, right, because hard with our.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Good God, like, are you drinking?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I don't know what's in this. No, I go hard
with our guys because look, our guys come into the
NFL system believing that because they are one of the
top two hundred and fifty guys that make it to
the league every year when they walk across the stage
at the draft, it always boiled my blood that our
(19:12):
dudes hugged Roger Goodell like he gave them some shit.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
They didn't earn it.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, the only reason you were on the stage is
you were one of the top two hundred and fifty guys.
He didn't give you anything, So shake his fucking hand
like a grown ass man, right, and then walk away.
I mean, I worked for big law firms.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They gave me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You know, I got great jobs. There. There was a
day and I didn't walk in and hug the managing
partner like he gave me some stuff. I think you
have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these
people are out to blow us out.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
How did you look at Roger Goodett? Did you look
at him as moyal but an outlier adversary.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Pure ass adversary. Wow, I mean, look Roger, I mean he.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
He's there to protect the owners basically.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That's not even basically. I mean he the commissioner is
a myth. So they created this title called commissioner way
back in the day because it makes us think, Oh,
the dude's in the middle and he's just making sure
that football is good for the players and football is
good for the good for the owners. No, Roger gets
paid sixty three million dollars a year sixty four. I
(20:20):
mean he may have gotten the bonus. I don't know.
I don't I don't get you, and I know I
know when we do have lunch, he buys. So No,
he gets paid sixty three sixty four million dollars to
represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life.
I'm not even mad about the money, is the plane.
(20:40):
That's the kind of thing where you're.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like Jesus, No football him to be objective about players.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
He's not paid to be an Are you able to
beat his?
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Well, were you able to beat his honest when you
were in your role.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I mean, I cannot get a gif. I came from
out of football. Just background for me. I was a
homicide prosecutor for eight years in DC. After that I
went to a big law firm. I didn't have anything
to do with sports when I got elected into the job.
So I came after a you know what I consider
a legend, a guy named Gene Upshaw who was the
former executive director. But Jean died in the job. You know,
(21:19):
he went into the hospital on a Wednesday and died
on a Sunday. And you know I ran against two
former NFLPA presidents and you know I won. They didn't.
So I always took the job from a standpoint of
I never looked for an NFL job. I never wanted
to work for a team. I don't need anything from
the owners. I wasn't there to become your friend. So
(21:43):
I know how to do one thing. I know how
to do war right, and I know how to how
I was hired at Latham and these big, big law
firms to basically represent the richest, biggest companies in the
world and do game strategy.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
That's what I know how hard was it for you
navigating a Colin Kaepernick situation because people felt like y'all
were hands off.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
You are very vocal, it seemed like you would be
hands off.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But I wasn't hands off on that one. Yeah. You know,
the first person to do an interview after Colin nelt
was me because I knew exactly how the league was
going to turn that story. And you know, I didn't
know that he was going to kneel. You know, it
was a preseason game, and I remember getting a call
from one of my PR guys that this is now
(22:29):
going to be a thing. It's going to be a
thing tomorrow. So I gave an interview with the nation
I think that night or that morning to frame this
is why he's kneeling, and this is why he's doing it.
But I also knew in a heartbeat that again going
back to this power man, once the league realized that
this is an individual player making a political statement that
(22:54):
is rooted in history and rooted in fact, I knew
in a nanosecond that they were going to come after
him and come after anybody who supported him. That's just
the way they played the game, right And so for me,
you know, I go into game mode, you know, first,
make sure that the message is out there in two.
If there ever comes a day when we believe that
(23:15):
he is going to be blackballed for what he's doing,
that's why we joined his lawyers and we sued the
National Football League for blackballer.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
I know you talk about it in your book a bit,
but do you feel like he was black.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Ball one hundred percent? I mean, look at I don't
want to say anything that gets a whole bunch of
other quarterbacks mad at me. But in the year that
Colin wasn't signed other than the top five quarterbacks in
(23:46):
the league, you know at that time, and I'm just
talking about everybody from from Braiding, from Brady to Aaron Rodgers,
everybody in the middle, Breeze, Pat Peyton, everybody. Colin was
one of the top ten quarterbacks in the league. I
mean everybody there were. There were a bunch of other
guys who had jobs, quarterback jobs. I don't think it's
(24:09):
close that he was better than fifty percent of the
starting quarterbacks in the National Football League at the time.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
When he worked out with the Raiders are when I know,
when Rock Nation had put together the workout that he
was supposed to go to, but then he went somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You the one in it, Yeah, the tryout in it
in Atlanta?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, what do you think of those two situations? They
were just for shore or Hey.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Look, I nobody was more stunned than me that he
didn't go through with that tryout in Atlanta. I know
that there was a fight over some waiver or or
something like that. But you know, there were a bunch
of college scouts there, I'm sorry, a bunch of pro
scouts there. Sorry about that pro scouts there, and he decided,
(24:54):
you know, for his own reasons, that that he wasn't
going to throw that day. That that surprised me. He
had disappointed me.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
He just went up the.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Road he did.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
He went to a high school, high.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
School where all the all the all the scouts want.
Speaker 9 (25:08):
Yeah, you know, and again I just can't be blunt, right,
But there were also dudes catching for him that day
who were looking for jobs to They didn't go to.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
The houschol got you got you got you got, you
got you.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So look, the you lose one hund of the fights,
you don't fight, right. If if I would have had
to wave way to a magic Wand would I have
wanted him to go throw that day and in front
of a bunch of scouts and show off that freakin'
arm and show off you know, his feet and his footwork.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Yes, you go to be hard to keep him out
of the league after that if he had a good show.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yes, yeah, because I think the pressure shifts, right. I mean,
everybody was there in Atlanta. Press was there, scouts are there. Man,
he is going to do well. And it is, at
least from the way that I look at the game strategy,
it becomes incredibly hard from that moment for the league
(26:09):
to continue to hold him out of the league when
you've got thirty some odd scouts there, the media is there,
and he does well. I mean I just look at
pressure points, right. That puts the maximum amount of pressure
on the league at that moment. And what I have
loved to see him go through that process. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
But you know what, man, you know from your standpoint,
And I just got a couple of questions about Theavnick situation.
Why why him though, because he wasn't the only player kneeling,
so he was.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
The guy that started it. So you know, if you're
reading the you know and again, I just I'm just
a war guy. If you know, whether it's you know,
the Art of War or Machiavelli's Treatise on War, you know,
there isn't a warrior campaign in the world that doesn't
(26:59):
try to kill the League general, right, And nobody really
wants to talk about it that way. But I don't
care what war you have ever waged, or whatever war
any country has ever waged from literally the beginning of time.
(27:19):
If you get an opportunity to kill the general, you
kill the general. And I think that the League took
the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick because
it was a hope, and I think it was misguided.
I think it was a hope that if they show
(27:40):
the rest of the players that they can control what
happens to somebody with a loud voice, If they can
control someone who looks like they might be bigger than
the league, what do they do. They send a message
to that guy you and they say, oh no, no, no,
we can control and put a bullet and you, And
(28:01):
that's a message to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I don't think it did it from Neil.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
No, it didn't. And and honestly I thought that was
one of the That was one of the best times,
one of the few great times that I had in
the job, because guys responded to that in a way.
I'm always looking for guys to be to have a
lettle of solidarity between them. And I mean, the owners
are serial killers, Let's not again. They are absolute killers.
(28:28):
And for the union to survive, forget us winning, for
us to just survive, we need more solidarity on our
side than you do with the owners. And that's what
you saw with our guys. And then that you know,
that night after the President gave that speech in Huntsville,
you know where he called and said, you know, wouldn't
it be great if every owner right? I mean, I
(28:50):
am sure that he did not understand that he called
every NFL player's mothers.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Son of a bitch.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I mean, you know, from where we come from, you
can say a lot of things. You get to that point,
there is going to be a laying of hands on
you when you say. And I think when the Republicans
woke up that morning and realized that even Trump had
gone over the line by calling players mothers a bitch.
(29:22):
And that was the weekend you saw every player kneel.
I mean I talk about it in the book. I
flew to watch the Cowboys play, not because I'm a
Cowboys fan. I went, we can go look. I mean
that Michael Parsons thing work. I mean, you don't have
to talk about it.
Speaker 10 (29:42):
Okay, I don't know, you know, Okay, sharp objects, you
said that we that you went because.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I knew Jerry's team was gonna kneel. And you know,
Jerry had come out and said, nobody's kneeling on my
team because that's the way that he believes in control.
I knew his team was gonna kneel, and I wanted
to see what he was gonna do.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
He moved his.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Self from the end of the line to the middle
of the line and knelt because for the only time
that he has run that team, he understood the difference
between being on the train or being in front of
the train, and he chose to be on the train
because his guys decided as a group of men this
(30:31):
and I was proud of him. But that's the job, right.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Another question, because y'all see you got with Colin's lawyers
and you sewed the NFL.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, there was a settlement.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Do you think that's when leverage was lost. Was that
the right thing to do except to settlement?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, I mean, so we represented him with his lawyers.
His lawyers did the settlement. We didn't. I didn't know
about the settlement. I woke up and saw it on
the news.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh so the NFLV he didn't even know about it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
No, that doesn't make since welcome to part of my job.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
That's how people were confused about it. I saw. I
was saying with the hands on, hands off things.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
People were confused where y'all stood because things were happening
and y'all and.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
It's hard because you know, again, you know, I'm a lawyer,
and lawyers have attorney client privilege. I didn't know about
the settlement. The NFL paid did not know about the settlement.
We woke up and found out about it that morning,
and as a result, it dismissed our part of the
case against the league. That's the way it happens. He
has the right to do that. He has the right
(31:30):
to be represented by his own lawyers. Fine. At the
same time, you know, I always tried to not second
guest lawyers, you know, because I'm not there. I don't
know what the terms of the settlement were I don't
know how much money exchanged hands. I wasn't involved in negotiations,
so I'm not gonna I'm not going to second guess
(31:51):
another lawyer, but I will say this, the nflpa's job
is to protect players, and again, I only know one
way of doing that, and that is to start off
at one hundred miles an hour and go to one
hundred and fifty and if there's something in the way,
you run over it. We were more interested in the
(32:16):
facts of who made the decision to black ball a quarterback,
a black quarterback of the National Football League. I'm interested
in what's in your phone. I'm interested in what emails
you're sending. I'm interested because I get all of that
in discovery, right, just like the you know, the collusion
(32:38):
lawsuit that I filed against the players after Deshaun Watson.
I filed that lawsuit before I left. I wasn't there
for the ruling, But the reason I filed that lawsuit is, Man,
we're looking for the truth because the truth gives us
the ability to fight the control right. So my job
(32:59):
in any callue usion lawsuit, man, I'm going hard and
there's nothing to settle for the for the right.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So once you take all that money, you you you
waive all the rights to set the discovery and everything.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It's like you don't care about you don't care about
the actual issue anymore.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You never got it.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Okay, So I'm not second guessing anyone, but we're all
you all on the same.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Page about that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Obviously, not anybody read the book. Yeah, there's stuff that
I'm trying to avoid saying saying because I had conversations
with their side of the lawyer. So I can't divulge anything.
But I can tell you that I woke up and
found out about the settlement from I think ESPN le.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Me, what were your thoughts on the way to handle
the Sanders young man control same situation?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Do you think that would think about?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Who?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Look, I don't know what happened, you know, I borrow
this line from from James Baldwin all the time. I
don't know if in your heart you're a racist, but
I see what you do. Right. So I look at
the way in which a young black man knelt during
(34:12):
a preseason game and the league turned. I believe every
gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick. And again, let's
be clear, he didn't interrupt a game. He didn't kneel
on the field, he didn't stop the game in any way.
(34:33):
This was all before the game, right, So no one
can make an argument to me like they did during
anthem that well, you know, d this is impacting you know,
the economics of the game, or this is impacting football. No,
even if it's during the national anthem, this is before
the game, right. And I got to sit in the stands.
I look, I watch guys in the in the stands
(34:54):
during the national anthem, buying another beer, swinging another beer.
You go to Baltimore in the middle of the national anthem,
they yell, oh in favor of the Baltimore Orioles. If
you're going to say that that's disrespectful for him kneeling,
it's disrespectful. Just as respectful for you to say something
about the Baltimore Orioles during the national anthem. But I
don't see anybody you know, pulling down or turning guns
(35:18):
on dudes on that. They went after Colin because he
was iconic and they were afraid that what he was
doing would lead to other people doing things and they
would lose control. Then you get to the shod right,
(35:40):
I don't know. I'm just being nice on the But
then you get to Shud and again I wasn't. Nobody
invites me into the draft rooms. But I asked myself
a pretty simple linear question, is is he better than
(36:00):
Johnny Manziel Chadar Sanders.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Johnny Manziel, Yes in college? Come on, l was a
beast in college.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now come on, man like he? I mean, I like
Johnny Manziel. I mean, yeah, Johnny Zelle's two people. If
you put them side by side. As far as who
is more likely to be a pro caliber quarterback, Chadur
beats him to death. Right, it's inexplicable for him to
fall as far as he did in the draft. You
(36:31):
think about the number of quarterbacks that the NFL owners
pull off of the draft line. He was predictable first
round pull So so every other prognosticator is wrong and
the NFL is right. No, that doesn't make any sense.
I just go back to the number of quarterbacks that
(36:52):
they pulled off that line. After you get to the
middle of the second round. Every one of those quarterbacks
that you pulled off the line, I would have taken
Chador over any one of those dudes. So I find
it inexplicable except for one thing of why he would
drop so far in the draft on the draft side,
(37:14):
because remember, think about it, you draft this guy, you
know he still doesn't make the team. Right. I find
it inexplicable that a person of his caliber, the things
that he was able to accomplish in college, for him
to drop as far as he did in the draft round.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I agree with that. I disagree with the Johnny Manziel comparison.
Like Johnny Menzel was a beast, he won the Heisman Trophy,
Like Johnny was different college.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's something to pros, right, But there's a lot of
dudes in who do well in college. I guess we're
you know, we agree to disagree, But here I think
we can agree on there's only a lot of guys
who perform in a college system whose size and skill
will not make them terribly successful in the pro system.
(38:00):
And I think that when you look at the arm
strength and the size of Shador and what he was
able to demonstrate in college, both with his feet and
his ability to his ability to throw just crazy right,
what he was able to do in college mimicked what
I thought he should be able to do. In the
(38:21):
National Football League. But fine, we can disagree about all that.
I keep coming back to this guy dropped so far
in the draft despite everybody rating him at a much
higher level, and.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
Also the people like that. I think people were awaiting
like his debut. I think he was two point two
million views.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
It was the But doesn't so he plays well? We
know that, right.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
But his third scring on the Browns right now is
how much.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
You know Spring on the Browns right now?
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I guess what I would say is there are.
Speaker 8 (38:59):
I'm sorry, I was just asking how much does that matter?
Like because no one wanted to see him.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
None to an NFL scout, NFL coach, you know, quarterback,
quarterback coach, man, they don't care about likes man. They
care about whether you can deliver the ball in a
in a three x three box with you run and right,
throwing right, and whether or not you can throw that
ball on a line for thirty yards. That's what they
(39:25):
care about it. That's all they care about. My point is,
coming out of college, when you take all of the
predictors about Shador, did all of those predictive qualities point
to him going higher than when he came out. Yes,
and again I don't know, but I do know one thing.
(39:48):
There is not an NFL owner that liked the way
in which he carried himself in college. That is not
That is not their vibe.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right. It's so interesting about this conversation.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And I feel like, and I'm just going back to
this because I feel like, if Colin Kaepernick hadn't to
settle and went through with the collusion, and you're all
able to get these emails and everything else, improve who
was doing what? Owners would never be able to collude
against the player like they did sh your door ever
again it was president.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Or they would never be able to collude against players
like we found out in the most recent lawsuit. No,
this was I fouled the lawsuit against the National Football
League that they were colluding against players getting free agent contracts. Wow,
I'll file that in twenty twenty two or twenty three.
(40:44):
I was gone by the time the arbitrator ruled on
the case. And not throw any shade on my successor.
But it's easy. Well, facts, man, Facts hurt. And so
for whatever reason, it's still mind boggling to me my successor,
(41:06):
who's gone now decided that they would enter into a
secret agreement with the league and not tell the players
about the result of the lawsuit. And for whatever reason,
my successor told the players that the players lost the
collusion lawsuit that I filed, when in reality, the arbitrator
(41:26):
found that the management council that runs the National Football
League colluded and told teams not to urge teams not
to give guaranteed contracts to players. Now, that's something that
I would have told the players, because first of all,
they're entitled to know. And second, as soon as you
as soon as I would have found out that the owners,
(41:48):
the owners who run the league, you know, Craft, Jones,
Mara Rooney, all of those guys are on their executive committee.
Once I would have found out that those people told
the teams to not do guarantee contracts, I sue on
behalf of every player going back to twenty fifteen. That's
(42:09):
what I would have done, because look, you lose one
hundred percent of the fights. You never fight.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
So when you find out the owners of colluding to
what happens, I don't well if.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
In this case the conen for the for the owners,
it could be could be cataclysmic. I mean, think about it,
if if there were a player who I'm just gonna
try to make the math eas Let's just do Lamar,
you know, if Lamar or Russell Wilson or any of
(42:40):
these guys, the young man in San Diego, Herbert, sorry,
the Chargers Herbert. Let's just say that he wants a
fully guaranteed contract, and just to make the math easy,
he wants a fully guaranteed contract at three hundred million,
and the owner only gives him a contract of one
hundred and fifty million guaranteed. Theoretically, your damages are between
(43:02):
one hundred and fifty million and three hundred million that
he didn't get times every player that didn't get a
fully guaranteed contract. So you know, historically, if you think
about the one of the reasons the Major League Baseball
Union became so powerful. Yes, they went through a strike
in nineteen ninety four, but what really broke the owners
(43:24):
in the eighties and the nineties, the baseball owners they
lost collusion cases lost them. And how it's.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Billions, so cabinet could have started president.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Anyway, read the book to make I'm not trying to,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
It's ain't even about him. This is about how that
president could have been started to take these owners.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Because it's about the strategy of power.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yes, because you're writing the book. Owners aren't stupid. Morons
on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that
a single massive army is more powerful than thirty two
regional ones, especially while fending off an attack. And it
made me think about it, because you can have all
the money in the world, but if their unity and
group operation.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
One hundred percent, that keeps them in one hundred percent. Man,
you want to be the next executive director of the NFL. No,
I guess I had to do a pitch too much.
Pick up the Thank you appreciate it, you do.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Bill Simmons podcast, Man, I would love to, Yeah, I
would love to.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I would love to think y'all have a great column.
We love to turn for wars.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
DeMarcus Smith, thank you for having tomorrow drow d.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Just tomorrows. Yeah. My mom, my mom wanted to call
me Lot Cannard or my dad did, but thank god,
thank god, my mother stepped in.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
My name is Lenard. That's close.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, but Lot Connard is the duck. Yeah, that would
have been a little bit rough.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Would you look like a duck when you was born?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
As damn that. I just the man. It went from.
We were on such a when he was born.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
No, no, no, you know what, he's man.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
He's mad about the cowboys thing.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
Yeah, so salty, and so she was gonna name you Lochannard.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
She was My dad wanted to name me Locknard. My
mother was like, uh no.
Speaker 11 (45:11):
Yeah, Lenard means clown, so yeah, real crazy. We appreciate you,
but you guys, what just means what I.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Went show.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Thank you brother, the Breakfast Club this morning.
Speaker 6 (45:32):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
A week ago, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club
finished
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