Today on The Breakfast Club, Lecrae Talks New Album 'Reconstruction,' KDot Mention, Young Thug Comments, J.Cole, Faith. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Every day up waiting, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
You don't finished for y'all done more thing everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
It's the j Envy Jess, Hilariy Schela mean the guy
we are the breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Laila Roses here as well. We got a special guest
in the building. You got the good brother, lukra what's up? Brother,
was handing? Man? How you feeling, man, I'm good man.
It's good to be here with y'all.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Good to see you, brother. I was in the reconstruction man,
and I told him earlier. I said, if if Lucre
wasn't a quote unquote Christian rapper, they.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Would have to put this in rap album of the
Year category.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Wow, that's big.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I truly believe that that's big. This is a phenomenal
body of work.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I appreciate that. Man, Like, yeah, man, I mean, you know.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
You live what you live with you you you know. However,
how they meet you is how they see you. So
it's like they met me in the four walls of
the church, so you know that's the box. But I'm
a product of hip hop, so you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's all love. But I appreciate that. That means a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Bro absolutely that.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I want to start off with diving into the album.
First of all, how long wanted to take you to
do this album? Because this album is you could tell
you you took a lot into doing this album. I
mean even to the beat selection and it sounds like
a movie you ain't dropping.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
A few years, right, Yeah, I ain't put out an
album album in a minute. Yeah, it took me a while.
I just you know, we pieced it together. You know
what I'm saying, We pieced it together. I was real
meticulous and just like, you know what I mean, let me,
let me really like push the boundaries and stretch stuff out.
I was giving s one.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Aheadache, you know what I'm saying, Like, hey, can you
add a little bit? Can you tweak this? Can you
do this? You know what I'm saying. So it took
me a little while, but it was worth it. Man.
People rush music these days.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Man, they just make like disposable music, and I just
I just felt like it's time out for Audy.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Are you tired of being put in that box that
that you're I don't want to say people don't take
you serious, but they look at you a certain way
where they should just look at you as an artist,
a hip hop artist.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I would appreciate it. I would appreciate if they listen.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
You call me what you want to call me, hip
hop artists, but listen. Yeah, just listen to the music.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't care what you if you want to call
me whatever.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Gospel rapper, Christian rapper, Listen, that's it. Because I think
there's a misnom where people get it twisted and they
think that the music gonna sound like this or you
know what I'm saying. I'm still scarred from Like I
went to an NBA practice and like handed a But
when I did my first church closed mixtape and I
handed a player by joint.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
He was like, I don't listen to no gospel rap.
I was like, bruh, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You probably had a horrible season that season.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Listen. I'm not gonna mention that.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Like when somebody give you a Jesus pamphlet in the
street and you look at.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
It, you can't throw it. You gotta give it to
somebody else you can throw it out. Yeah, man, So
I don't I don't like that. I don't like that
people say it's corny. I'm like, bro, you got I
don't know where you even got this, Like when's the
last time you just sat and listened to a body
of work to even create.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This idea of it. So you know, as long as
you listen, I don't care.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
When I listened to it, it was my first time
listening to one of your full projects. I definitely expected
something different because of the name Reconstruction. Oh yeah, especially
because I think of you as a gospel rap artist.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And he just said it wouldn't be that.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
I mean, I'm just saying like it just happens naturally.
So I thought reconstruction gospel rap artists. I thought it
was going to be very like kind of like wrap,
but alter call is it wasn't that.
Speaker 8 (03:13):
It was more about your story, right, Why the name
reconstruction A.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Lot of different reasons.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
So reconstruction is like it's a theme, it's thematic for
my life and what I've experienced. But it's also just
the eraror we living in. We dispose people, we throw
them away. So like you see what happened at the
Coldplay concert with the Hry you know what I'm saying,
And it was like social media was excited to destroy them,
like tear them down.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
They was wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
For a lot of reasons.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
First of all, anyway, I'm not even gonna get in
a while, they was wrong. But I mean, first of all, bro,
what is you doing while you got you wrapped up
at the car? I mean, you was wrong for cheating
on your wife, but you're really wrong. You wild for.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like being bowed up hugged up like that in public.
You at whole CEO you you tripping.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
But the way social media was excited to destroy them
was is like that's what we get excited about. In
Mahamie Mike d he was tearing a part of a
treehouse in his backyard and he was doing it piece
by piece, like let me be careful because he didn't
want to just demolish it, because he wants to reuse
that would And that's what I feel like reconstructions about
it is like, God don't just want to destroy people.
(04:24):
He wants to reconstruct and reuse them. I work in
prisons all the time. I was in a prison not
too long ago, and it was a dude in there,
and I don't condone none of the stuff he did.
You know, he did some hainous things. They whooped him,
they beat him up when he first got there. But
over the course of his years there, like he's been influential,
He's changed people's.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Lives, He's done a lot.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
And how long do we got to like be looked
at as this terrible human being before it's like something
different can happen with him.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So that's kind of why I did reconstruction.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
The second reason why is because you know, the reconstruction
era in American history is a time period where you know,
disenfranchised people where but to come up from the rubble
and make a difference in society.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So it's like both both pieces.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You know, I've heard you also speak about deconstructing your
your faith before me.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So what did you discover about God?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I guess when you script away religion that made you
want to do a reconstruction.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I got.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
I caught a lot of flak from the Evangelical church
when when when black bodies were being laid in the street,
and I was very open about it, and uh, and
you know, people was like really hated that I was
standing up for social issues and and and it gave
me a lot of tension with the church, with with
you know, the broader church, American church, and so I
(05:39):
was like, well, maybe this whole thing is wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So I was ready to throw it all away.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
I went to Egypt and I got to see like
some of the Christians over there, and it was different.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
I got to read about Ethiopia and see how Christianity
was not started in America.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It's not this white man's religion.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
It's something that existed outside of the European narrative. And
you know, shout out to my white brothers and sisters,
but I'm just saying, they don't they It's a lot
of things have been co opted. It's not like this
European religion. So I had to tear down these like
American ideas of what God is, what church is, and
(06:16):
reconstruct from the perspective that the Bible really gives.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
So it's kind of like eating mom's spaghetti, Like if
you got the recipe from two twenty five years ago,
and now you're leaving out stuff that ain't the same recipe.
And I feel like the faith, so much stuff has
been left out. So I just wanted to rebuild on
the foundation. Jesus is my foundation and let's rebuild this
thing in a healthier way.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And that's what what reconstruction looks like.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
You know, in the first track, you talk about being
church heard, and it's so in threats because I was
just having a conversation with my good sister Debbie Brown
yesterday and she was talking about religious trauma, trauma people
have experienced, yeah, being in the.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Church, right, Like, what is church heard to you?
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Church heard is you know when the people that you
expect to serve you well, the people that you expect
to become your family and love you well, let you down.
But it happens everywhere, right, every It's not just in
the church. It could be you know, I remember when
the Game was crying because he thought hip hop was
(07:18):
gonna be something that it wasn't, you know what I'm saying.
And it's like he was hip hop hurt, you know
what I mean. People have expectations and the expectations ain't met.
And I think the problem is we blame God and
it ain't. That's not a God hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's the people hurt.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
People let you down, God didn't, you know what I'm saying.
So I think people turning back on church because of that.
And I you know, for me, man, I love I
you know, I ain't getting sponsored by Chipotle, but I
love Chipotle.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
They're good, but certain Chipotle's they don't be seasoning that food. Right.
It don't make me say I hate Chipotle. I'll never
go to Chipotle again.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I may not go to that one or I may
not go and buddy working behind, but I still love Chippotle.
So I think that's what people do with God and
with church, like oh, they had a terrible experience. I'm
done with God. My mom, you know, she grew up
in a religious world like that, she was done. She
didn't raise me in church because she was like, they
burnt me too bad. So you know, we had to
work through that trauma with her.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So I get it.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, for people that don't know, you know, you said
your mom didn't raise you in church, So how did
you become? And you've talked about a million one time, Yeah,
but how did you become the way that you become
if you weren't raised in church Because people to automatically
assume or he must have been born in church.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
He was on church on Tuesdays or Wednesdays.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
He did this on Thursday he did Bible study like so,
so to break that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Down, I was a straight hippie. My mom was a hippie.
She had a Buddha in the room.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
She was blazing, like, no real thoughts of who guy was,
the universe everything. She was just a wild hippie. So
that's how I grew up. And then I just was searching.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I studied Rastafarianism because I like to smoke. I studied Islam,
I studied you know, I studied a lot of things,
and I was really curious.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I was.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I was seeking. I was kind of like gen Z.
Gen Z's very spiritual. They like, well, I don't know
what's up. That's kind of how I was. And I
didn't want to mess with Christianity because I felt like
it was rigid and it was like suits and ties.
But then I went to this conference in Atlanta and I,
you know, I'm like nineteen and I see like.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Dudes with cornrows. I see this group from Philly.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Named Cross Movement and they it was baggy jeans and
it was on the block. And I was like they
had that like five percent of energy, but they was
Christians and I was like, oh, this is crazy. I
didn't know this existed, so that intrigued me, and it
made me say, well, wait a minute, if these dudes
are Christians, maybe there's something to this.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And then I.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Listened and I hadn't you know it, existential experience with God,
where you know, my heart got changed literally you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And I trusted in Jesus. And then I was like,
now what do I do?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know what I mean, I rap.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I like to rap. So the first album I listened to,
that to me was like gospel.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I didn't listen to. Gospel was a miseducation Lauryn Hill.
So I said, I want to do what she doing.
And that was kind of like the impetus of me
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You stop smoking weed? Are you still enjoyed the burning bush?
From time to time?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Initially I stopped, then years down the line, I picked
it back up, then.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I stopped again.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
It's medical now, I mean, it ain't that for me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's a lot of other things, but it ain't that
for me.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It's not I mean, you know, first of all, whether
I thought it was okay or not okay, the way
my anxiety is set up, I don't need to ever
touch nobody.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That's why I hear where you go. I deal with anxiety. Okay,
I got really bad anxiety. But yeah, Tativa would always
make me have the worst paying attacks in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, but the Indigo does the opposite.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You know, you can get it to you can get
it's so medical now, you can get it to where
it'll take out the paranoil, take out the you know,
anxiety inducing effects.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You can get it. Damn it customary the way you
want much.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I'm gonna just meditate, you know what I'm saying. I
would just siting meditated, enjoyed the sea breeze.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But hey man, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I don't want to. I don't want to devil. I
don't want to play with that. When you know I
don't have some bad panic attacks before, bro, I wouldn't
even want to. I wouldn't want to go back.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
I mean, you talk about a lot of your life
stuff in the album, so I know some of the background.
But like church wise, like because you talk so different
than a lot of the church leaders or people that
are in faith, do you get anxiety from that? Like
when you put out interviews, I watched one you were
talking to uh, I forget his name is Mike. You
all were talking about like church nominations and that not
being a real thing anymore. Oh yeah, And I was like,
(11:24):
I could never watch this with my grandma.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nah. I mean, I you just gotta know who rock
with you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I'm not afraidist to just tell the truth. Like I
just after you being in this game, been in this
game for so long, you realize like there's always gonna
be a critic. There's always gonna be somebody, and if
you don't stand for what you believe in, somebody's gonna
knock you off your pivot. I played the game too long,
you know, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Like I danced, I was.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
I remember my first time coming here. I was so nervous.
I was like, all right, what I gotta say. Let
me not mess this up. And you know, you start
feeling like I gotta represent the Christians. I gotta represent
the hip hop community. I gotta you know, and then
after a while you're just like, bro, I'm just I'm
gonna be who God called.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Me to be.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
And I don't really got time to wrestle with all
these weird things. I remember being so like torn and
how do I navigate? Like my first time meeting j
Cole was such an embarrassing moment because I I felt
like you saw me.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It was like, how
do I what was the story?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
So we was at we was at a super Bowl
party years back, and uh, now I was I was tipsy.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I was you know what I'm saying, I was indulging
a little too much.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
But uh and I no longer drink, by the way,
so case anybody, it ain't a religious thing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It's a sobriety thing. But uh, I approached j Cole
and then I'm like, okay, what do I do? What
do I say? That's Jake Cole?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
I don't And then what comes out of my mouth is, hey, bro,
do you believe in Jesus?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
And it was just like not hello, now, what's up?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Bro?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
My name is like nothing. It was just like who
is Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You said it? Like what's that you claim?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Press? Like for the Kingdom? It was like I was,
you know what I'm saying, Like I really tragicked me.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
So he was like, I mean I grew up in church,
but I'm processing what I believe, and you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And I was like, all right. I was like, well
take my number down.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
He took my number down, and then I was like
he walked away when and I said, hey, man, you
didn't even put my number in my name in your phone.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
How you gonna call me back? You don't know my name?
I really crashing out like an idiot. You know who
you are? I said that to him. He looked, he
was like, I know who you are, nigga. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
I was like, oh, I felt stupid, but it was
that era. You know, this is like ten years ago, but.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was stupid.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
It like just nervous, not knowing who to be, not
knowing how to walk in my own identity, not knowing
how to be who God called me to be, and
just and I think it just took time for me
to get comfortable in my own skin. So I don't
really like you, like you was saying, I don't trip
no more when like the religious community may be mad
at me, the non religious came to be maybe mad
(14:00):
at me, but you met.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Since then, I ain't to me if I was I'm
not gonna front if I was called i'd be like
Craig fake and I really not say that I met
you drunk as hell. He couldn't tell though, if you're
talking like that, he ran, I believe in Jesus did
I deserved that one?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Y'all haven't spoke at all. I wonder what he thinks
to you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I don't know, bro, I don't know. It was bad, crazy.
It was bad, Bro, it was bad. But I mean,
but I own it. It's like I own it. You
know what I'm saying. I own my story. It's like,
that's kind of what you did the Prince.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Same thing, Yes it is. What's the first thing you said?
The Prince? First of all? How it is Prince?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
He one morning he was up here at the radio station,
like five in the morning.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Somebody was like your princess him, like Prince, why would
prince be hit?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
And he we went, we put the station on all
over we went, and he was walking down the hall
with two old white women and he was nice as hell.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
He came up to us, spoke not nice as hell,
I'm sorry, he was nice as heaven. And he came
up to us. What's the first thing you said? I
that I grew up. Jehovah Witness too.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Didn even say hello, that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's the same story.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Like that's what you did. You said it was awkward
and I got you hello. Yeah, six o'clock in the morning.
I mean, that's that's religious trauma. That's a big what
are you.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Talking about that?
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Let's take a minute there, legends, can we talk about
that forgion.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
That's that's such religious trauma. That's like, yeah, my brother.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
That's coy Oh. Yeah, that's that's cult action. And I
know Jeova's winning is gonna come to me for that.
But that's a that's a whole cult.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I don't think it's a cult. I have to say
that because my mom is.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I mean, you don't mean it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I got to say because my mom, somebody's going to
send this to her. I don't think it's a cult.
But I understand what you're saying, because man, when you're
a kid and you growing up and everybody else celebrating
the holiday.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Religion, religion is the term religion. I mean Biblically, religion
is like it's a practice, right, But what we mean
in our society is like it is rules without relationship
in a lot of way. It's like religion to me
is if you love your wife, you come home with
flowers and you say, here's what I'm supposed to give you, sweetheart.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
That's religious relationship.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Is I was thinking about you all day, baby, I
got you some flowers and I just wanted to show
you some That's relationship. So to me, it's like I
came out to woman, I can't have birthday parties, and
I got to do all these things and button up this.
I don't even know if I got a relationship with God, Like,
why would I want to be connected to a God
who don't want to.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
How do you raise kids in religion then, because I
think a lot of people would say that there's like,
I mean, you don't have that right because you said
your mom didn't. Really, Yeah, I got three kids, but okay,
so are you raising your kids in religion and how
do you do it?
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Then?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In relationship?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, that's how I mean.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I don't like, Hey, kids, I'm bringing we're going to
church because I feel like this is the healthiest place
for you because I've met God. I don't My daughter's
the only one of my kids who's gotten baptized. Because
I'm like I don't want to force nothing on y'all.
Y'all gonna have to make this decision for yourself. This
was her decision that she made, and we celebrate that.
(17:20):
I've had hard convos with my oldest son, who was like,
I don't know if I believe this is would I
be a Muslim if I done live in this house?
And we have those dialogues, and I love those, like, yeah,
let's go there. Let's have these conversations so that he
can but I want him to see the consistency of
my life. He's like, nah, Dad, Like he talks about
the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
gentle and self control, but then he lives it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
He apologizes when he mess up because I.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
Just passed, but then I come back and like he
sees that I have a relationship with God and for him,
he's made that decision on his own as well. But
it's like, I'm not saying you better, I'm saying this
is what I feel like is the healthiest way.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
That's why I don't like the holdest fellowship at the
Kingdom Hall. You know, that's actually what turned me off
to it. Whether I whether I realized that or not.
But as I got older, I realized the reason I
was turned off to it is when watching my father
get this fellowship. The father needed help in that moment.
He was with substance abuse issues. Yeah, you know this
fellowship of man for that, and then they make you
(18:18):
come to the Kingdom Hall, but nobody speaks to you,
and they announced to the whole congregation.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Such and such has been this fellowship from the Kingdom.
I'm like, God, but your pops is in there and
they just cancel them might dinner from everybody.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Nobody talks like they don't talk to you when you're
fellow and how you supposed to heal?
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I see what I'm saying, Like crazy, that's what I'm saying,
Like like I don't get that. I was just when
I was walking down the street yesterday, a dude on
the block passed me the flyer and then he was
like a street preacher and he ended up being a
dope one. But a lot of times my issue with
street preachers too is just like, bro, you yelling at people,
you condemning people like you don't even know their names.
I got the one dude ran upon me as I
(18:53):
was leaving a wu Tang concert and he was.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Like, look right, what are you doing here? I was like,
enjoying some music, you know what I'm saying, Like you know?
But then he was blasting me and blasting people around him.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
So I walked up to this table and I'm like, bro,
he was in an argument with another dude, and I said, yo,
my man, what's your name? And the dude he was
arguing with told me his name. I said, where you're from?
You told me where he's from. I said, word, man,
you want to get together sometime, maybe get coffee and
talk about what you believe.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
He's like, I'm down. I said, how.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
About you try that my guy, instead of yelling at
him and telling him he's going to hell?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
But it's like, that's the stuff I don't I can't
fool with. Like it's like, there ain't no relationship in that.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
How do you maintain faith in a culture like hip
hop that often monetizes your trauma?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
But resistion?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Woo, that's a that's a that's a deep one right there. Bro.
I think I think there's irresponsibility. I get it.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
You a young dude off the block. This is an
opportunity for you to get a check. The industry, the
powers that be say hey, tell that story five more
times and you're gonna get more checks. And you don't
know an enough about who you are, your own identity,
your value, your self worth to even understand.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Like I'm being like, you.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Know, used, But I don't think that's how hip hop started.
That wasn't the the the how it initiated. It was
us as grits in the community telling what was going
on around us, not like trying to like capitalize off
artists trauma, porn, you know what I'm saying. So I
don't like that, and so that's why I do bring
(20:27):
the healing side. That's why even when I collaborate with
other artists, like you know, and I did a song
with Walker back in the day, and I was like,
let's talk about the other side of the game. Everybody
talks about selling drugs, but no one talks about the
like I done sold drugs, You done sold drugs, but
no one talks about the trauma that come with that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
The what's it like sitting.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Behind you know, a cell, what's it like seeing my
daddy is you know, was a crack addict for it
for years and just to see that reality and live
live under that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
So it's like, let's talk about the trauma of that
and in the healing aspect of it is I'm walking
and breathing as a healed individual.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
I think people want me to be perfect so many
times without understanding where I came from, what I came through,
and it's like, we'll be perfect, and I'm like, look,
I'm not as bad as you think I am. But
I'm not as good as you think I am either.
I'm a human being in the middle trying to walk
this thing out as best I can.
Speaker 7 (21:18):
Yeah, dang, that was Yeah, people in church on talk
like that. I like what you and Tim Ross do
a whole lot because of that. But I guess one
of my questions, and maybe I'll stop asking you faith
based questions, is at what point when so you grew
up in this household where your mom is not pressing
you to do any right and then you find God
(21:40):
through your own journey, at what point do you because
you've said you hate the church.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
You said it on this album.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I said I hated, hated, hated, Yes, so what makes.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
You bring people?
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Because when people find God, they go find a physical church,
and a lot of times they can't separate the two, right,
what makes you bring people to a physical church to
expose them to what might become a.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Church is Yeah, I love the church. I love the church.
The big sea. The people who love God all around
the world is global. It's not American. The models that
we see for church are generally like sometimes it's an
industrial complex. Sometimes it's a system. The work still get done.
Like sometimes it's like I get it. It's like it's
(22:24):
an infrastructure. It's a system. There's lights, and there's cameras,
and there's these things, like it's an oratorial speech being
given in music, it's a Broadway production, I get it.
That's not what church is. That is a expression from
the people who love God. But what church is is
(22:45):
a gathering of God's people who come together to you know,
as a community, to live out, to celebrate God, to
navigate their lifestyle. So some of the other things that
get built up that we call church, you know, shout
out to my guy Carl Lenz and yeah, you know,
(23:07):
he was a part of that complex, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And it's like they're made the pastors are made out
to be gurrules. None of them are Gur rules. They
giraffes on ice skates. They don't got it.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
They don't got it figured out, you know. But everyone
sees them as gurus. So when they fall aslip, they
should be responsible. But they've been propped up to be
these gurrules, and it's like, bro, they fooling themselves thinking
they got it all together. So I don't hate the church.
I love the church. The expressions we see a lot
of times in America, I think are silly, you know
(23:40):
what I'm saying, But I navigate him and I.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Deal with them because that's where we are as a culture.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
You know what I'm saying. It's like it's like hip hop.
It's like, I know what hip hop used to look like.
I know it looks like now. I think some stuff
is silly. I think having to make a TikTok go
viral for people to enjoy your song is silly.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
But it's where we are. So I'm not just down
in it. I'm like, not stupid y'all, dumb y'all. It's like,
it's where we are.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I love Call for the same reason I love a
lot of your music is because y'all are not afraid
to show people that you made mistakes. Y'all not afraid
to show people that you flawed. Y'all not afraid to
show people that you still wrestle with the same things.
We all wrestle with, the insecurities, Like I love on
to die for the party When you started off, he said,
I was wrestling, like should I write a verse? The
culture got enough cloud chasing bultures out here trying to
prove they work.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
They need attention.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
They can't imagine me not trying to make myself look
bigger off of this Kendrick Mintion.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Like when you hear you rap that, I can hear
you wrestling with write man, you know what I mean? Like,
but he did shout me out.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
I mean, I can't just let this go by s
see man, I was telling you right, DOT will throw
you a He'll throw you a layup.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it's like, do I dunk this or not? Because
because I don't, especially for him, because he got so
many cloud chasers, he got so many just so for me.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
For for Kendrick to for not to mention me in
the song and say, I wonder what La Cray would
do that first of all, you're paying homage to like
my lifestyle, my processing. It's not like he's a good craze,
a good rapper. He's saying, I wonder what cra would
do in this, yeah, this circumstance. And for me, it's
like I didn't want to say nothing my homie at
(25:15):
He was like, you need to respond.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I said, nah, Bro, I ain't. That's lame, like eyes nasty.
It just feels nasty. He was like, Bro, the world
is watching, the world is listening. The man said your name.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Asked you a question.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
He did ask me a question, and so I was like, ah,
I try.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
And I really didn't even like it when I was
writing it. And then I see I didn't even like it,
and it just you know, So I sent out the
whole album and.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I said, you pick a song. Man, I'm waiting. I
ain't hurt nothing back.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Love the last line on it. You said, you said
love his patience. So I'm trusting in the narrative. And
christ ain't watched the party die. He died in status
of it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Basically, like you know on the song he was saying
his on his song, you know, watch the party die?
It's kind of like it's like, man, y'all, he sees
the dysfunction and he's like, ugh, you know what I mean,
And we all see the dysfunction, and we all like,
but if we really want to end all the evil
(26:24):
that exists out there, that means we gonna die too,
you know, because there's evil that exists in here. So
you got to be also mad at yourself. And Jesus
didn't sit back and say, yeah, y'all are disgusting. He said,
I'm gonna I'm gonna take that disgust on myself.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I'm gonna lay my life down and let y'all walk
across my back to cleanliness and to wholeness. Instead of
condemning y'all, I'm gonna reach my hand out.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
To save y'all.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
So that was the picture, was pain instead of just
being condemning. Because when you see something that you hate,
you're like, but then you gotta look in the mirror
sometimes and be like, and if I want it all.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
To go, I gotta go with it. So Jesus is like, yes, whack,
but I'm I'll take your ugliness on me, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
So because Kendrick said, f these words up or showing
what prayer do. So you showing him what prayer do empathy.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
That's how I got it. I said that earlier he
was like, I ain't hear that. That wasn't right.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, what Kendrick said, that is what I said.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
I said.
Speaker 8 (27:22):
What I said was from what I took from your verse.
Speaker 7 (27:25):
You decided or you you self reflected, and you said
I can't watch the party die because if the party
had died, I would have died too.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Because that is what I said.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
I said, because you felt like you were a part
of what people are saying is disgusting. At one point
you had to find your mission. Literally what I said,
and you said, I didn't hear that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
She heard you say that eloquently.
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Basically, that's what I took from it. He said something else,
but we're gonna let him ride.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But I do have a question.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, you know record with Killer Mike and t I crazy.
Do you get people when you ask people for like
you send your album to cat out or you send
songs to other artists? Do you a lot of times
do artists not want to do it because they put
you in that box? Do they question themselves because.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
You they won't say that, They've never said it overtly.
I'm sure that's an issue for people. I've never heard it.
When people get to know me, there's a level of respect.
So like me and Mike go years back, like killing
Mike and our good friends. You know what I'm saying,
Like that's my dog. But I mean we've had some
some conversations. You know, obviously we don't agree on everything,
(28:33):
but he respects me and I respect him, and so
it's like this mutual respect where it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I see where you at and I'm gonna come on
your playing field and rock with you.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
There.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
There might be some other people who like, now, why
would we do something?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Why would I fool with him?
Speaker 5 (28:49):
They ain't never said it to me, but I'll be
feeling like in my experience, people people closet they faith
and they look for outlets to express it, and then
I give them the outlet a lot of times like
they like I want to like I remember when I mean,
I don't know about faith wise, but I know twenty
one Savage has said some somewhere along the line like
(29:10):
he wish he didn't have to rap about the stuff
he rap about all the time, and it's like, that's
what people expect of them. And I'm like, I think
there's a lot of people who feel like that in
the faith world. And it's like, yes, this gave me
a chance to say, well, what I really wanted to say,
you know what I mean? So, but yeah, I don't know, man,
they if they if that's how they feel, that's how
they feel.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I think people like that have never listened to your music.
When I listen to Headphones, that's not a gospel record, that's.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Not a faith based record. That's a record about grief, yep.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
And there's three brothers that are dealing with various levels
of grief and different people that they're grieving, and they're
just expressing that. And even that same what you say
that I hope you got headphones and heaven? Yeah, oh man, Honestly,
it just gave me chills, Like damn, that's a dope
way of saying, y'all, I hope that d.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Can't hear me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yep, That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is.
I try to find common ground. That's what I try
to do. Where's our common ground?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Cause, like the Reconstruction album is not just like reconstructing
your faith, reconstruct your marriage, reconstruct your life, reconstruct your
finances like there's common ground. I may have a different
angle on, but I'm still living the same life you
live in, Like I'm still out here experiencing it. Like
I'm gonna lose people. You're gonna lose people. I'm gonna
deal with family issues. You're gonna deal with family issues.
(30:22):
So I'm like, let's talk about it in song. And
you know, I catch a lot of flak, Like, man,
I love my dude, big krit Man. When we did
a feature years ago, they blacked my Christian The religious folks,
the religious fans blasted him so bad. It made him
feel they was blasting me, saying, how dare you collaborate
(30:42):
with this like worldly artist. It made him feel a
way about Christians because they was on my head and
he was like, am I this filthy, ugly, nasty person
like dang? And I'm like, man, why would you not
want to welcome somebody into the conversation about these things?
You want to shun them and push them away instead
(31:02):
of welcoming men.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
To have conversations. So I want to reconstruct that.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
I want to like reconstruct that type of dynamic in
relationship and redefine people's experience with Christians, because I think
it's it's a weird dynamic, you know what I'm saying,
It's just really weird in America.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
Has that worked for you?
Speaker 7 (31:18):
I saw your response to Young Thug when he tweeted,
if you're a rapper and you're a rat, you've got
to just go gospel twenty. You try to reach out
and kind of give him that like, Hey, it's good
over here. It's not a grave yard. It's a garden.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Have y'all spoke, Nah, but I'm down, Like Thug, holler
at me. I mean, it's not a graveyard, it's a garden.
Were thriving, were growing, I got health, I got My
life comes with the same hardship as anybody else's. Like,
you won't get wisdom without suffering, so you gonna suffer.
But I don't be worried about noe, you know, warrants,
(31:54):
you know what I'm saying. I go home to my
wife on a regular basis, I'm raising my kids. We
have great relationship dynamic. Like I got accolades, I got awards.
That's not what I do it for I pay my
bills on time. I'm fine, I'm not in a graveyard.
And I guess to me, I'm like, why do rats
have to go to gospel? Like?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
What is?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
To me?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It sounds like that's a lame place for lane? The
lane we send the lanes over there. And I'm like, okay,
I mean in a sense, you're right, because Jesus makes
the lame walk.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
They used to do that too, whenever like an artist
would get in trouble, like an artist would get in
trouble to.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Be like he got a gospel right.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I've seen that in my own
I've seen artists get in trouble in my phone, you ring, Hey,
you need to make a song?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Cut it out.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I'm dead serious.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I ain't even no names.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I ain't names.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
I love the Brick by Brick record too, because when
I saw it, I'm like, what look about to do
with this one?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
What was the mindset with that.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Brick by brick?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
You know what I'm saying is really just a song
about building. Man, if you're gonna reconstruct something, you do
a brick by brick, You know what I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Saying, if you played it out like it might have
been dope.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
I mean, yes, but you know what I'm saying, it's
a play on words. It's a double entendre. It's also
tapping into my you know, old ways. But then it's
like it's a different types of brick, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And I'm moving these days.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
And then I got this young spit of Miso, you
know what I'm saying. She out of Houston, and she five,
and I was like, yo, that's another thing. It's a
whole young crop of the you know, young cropper of
artists who killing it. And it's like, man, I'm just
trying to shine some light as an og. Now I'm like,
let me shine some light back on these young artists
and let them do their thing. Because when I first
(33:42):
came up, it was just me and I was like, man,
it's just me out here. You know, I'm doing the
BT cipher. Them jokers put me in an international cipher.
They didn't even know what category.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
To put me in, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
So I'm like, well, I don't know what. So now
it's like, nah, I'm not rolling solo no more. I'm
letting it I'm opening the doors for everybody.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
He was in the street selling dope. And I know
you probably used to pray in but you can God
bless me? Can God really bless the trap?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
He did?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You ain't.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
I don't know if you heard my Bible story, bro.
I literally I was making a run. I'm trespassing on
school property. I was wild and I was at a
high school on school property. They say, called the police.
I thought I looked like a high school student, so
but I could didn't I was. They called the police.
The police came. I'm ditching. I'm running about the school.
(34:33):
I get back to my car. As soon as I
get to my car with work in my car, the
police snatched me up. And I didn't have a lot,
and that was no keys. I wouldn't know, you know,
I wouldn't jay z out here, you know what I'm saying.
But I'm not trying to put his business out here.
I'm just saying I wouldn't pushing uh. But uh, but
(34:56):
the police come and they snatched me up. Now, the
crazy part about it was I had a Bible in
my car that my grandmother had given me, and I
was at.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
This point, I'm a Christian but I'm just wilding. I'm
just on a downward trajectory.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
But I was reading my Bible a lot, and I
had some phases where I highlighted a lot of stuff.
I got notes in that joint. I got it on
a dash. The police officer comes in my he I'm
sitting in the back of the car. He come searched
my car and he come back. He said, that's your Bible.
I said, yeah, that's my Bible. He said, you've been
reading that Huh. I said, yes, sir, I need to
read it more. He said, I want you to stay
(35:32):
in that Bible. Get out of my car. And I
was like, okay, I go back to my car. Work gone,
work is gone.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Wow. I don't know if that was an angel or
real police officer. I don't know what. I don't ask
no questions. I'm here though. Wow, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So when you're writing, how do you discern between what's
meant for, like I guess the booth and it what's
meant for, like the prayer closet.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
For me, if it exposes somebody else's business, I try
not to rap about it unless I get their approval,
you know, because I tell a lot of stories, and
I got a lot of people involved in different stuff,
and you know, if it's too personal, if they like, hey,
you're telling my story now, bro, then I'm like, you're right.
I respect that. So then I try to respect that myself.
(36:21):
I don't mind being transparent, you know what I'm saying.
And shout out to my man, Jason Wilson, I say,
y'all had him on the pot too.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Jason.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
He my dude, he said, man, he said, stop saying
be vulnerable, be transparent.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, that's good.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
So you know, I don't want to put myself in
a position where I'm my hands is up and you
can do whatever you want to do to me. But
I want to be open and transparent so that you
can relate. You can see my scars, because if you
see my scars, then you know your wounds can heal.
So I don't mind sharing some of the stuff that
I got, but I just try to keep other people's
business out of it. I take that to the prayer closet,
(36:55):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So what does it mean to be in the world right?
Not of it? But your job as an MC is
the move crowds in the world.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, I mean you be in it. You know what
I'm saying. I was of it for a season. I
have my season. I talk about it on my you
know I had. I've been. I've been like sober, like
eight years I've been.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
You know, it's people don't understand this industry will get
you like they don't get it, like fame is fake,
it's a drug, it's not real. But boy, when you
you know, ten years ago I had a number one
album in the country, like over everybody, everybody calling my phone,
all my favorite artists. You get gassed. You start like,
(37:38):
oh man, I'm somebody, and you forget you. It was
already somebody. God God knew you before any of these
other people did. So I was in my you know,
I got absorbed, and what ended up happening for me
is I wasn't I was not in the world and
I was of it. But I was trying to fight it,
(37:59):
and I was trying to play tug of war. It
wasn't like I just gave up. It was like I
have moments I dip in, dip out. So you can't
play tuggle war by yourself. You know what I'm saying.
So now I'm out here, I'm more confident in who
I am. I keep people with me and I want
to relate, you know what I'm saying. I'm also not
tempted by the same stuff. And I think a lot
of times.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
People will be like, why are you over there? I'm like, bro,
that that's so ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Like I ain't that don't do nothing for me, you
know what I'm saying, Like, I am not tempted BYuT
half of the things that used to be a temptation.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Like I'm just I'm past that phase of life. I'm
sure you are. If you was to blaze up right now,
I wouldn't be like, oh God, what do I do?
What do I do? Do I take it or not?
I just be like I'm not smoking, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (38:39):
So you say you keep people with you?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah? Is it?
Speaker 7 (38:42):
Because sometimes too, when people get into like the spiritual
realm of like having this relationship with God, they separate
from anybody that doesn't is not at the same place
in the journey.
Speaker 8 (38:51):
So who are the people that you keep it with you?
Speaker 4 (38:53):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:54):
I keep I keep two types of people, or really
three types of people with me, I keep I keep
people who are a half a step ahead of me.
People are walking alongside of me, and people are half
a step behind me.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
So if you half a step ahead of me, I
can learn something from me. You know, I feel like
Jason Wilson half a step ahead of me. I'm like, man,
I can learn something from Jason three or four, you
know what I'm saying. So I keep people like that
around me, people who have a step, who walking along
side of me, like yeah, you we on the same page,
on the same mission.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And people who have a step.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
I gotta keep young, young, young hitters with me all
the time because I want them to see learn, grow, build,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
So, and you got to know you can learn from
anybody as well.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
So that's what I try to expose them to, is
like I want the youngins to see I'm not like starstruck.
I want the people who next to me to get
exposed as well, because I'm like, I'm sitting.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
In here with Entrepreneur podcasts guru.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
It's like I can sit and learn from them, and
I want my peers to have access to that and
be able to technoledge as well, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
So yeah, I love what.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
You're doing, man, because I feel like there's a lot
of people turning away from like traditional faith structures and
they're looking for God and other things. And I think
it's the artists in the pastors because I give pastors
to you know, pastor Saturday robbing is so much credit.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
It's the past is like that that are meeting people
where they are.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Fact.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know that's going to really give give, reintroduce hope,
yep to a generation.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
I'm one hundred percent with it. And I mean, you know,
some are gonna be non traditional, some gonna be trad.
You just got to run in your lane, you know,
I run in my lane. I love different people who
got different applications. And it's not me against anybody else,
you know, it's me. I ain't trying to compete with you.
I'm trying to eat with you, you know what I mean.
So who, I want to see the church thrive. I
(40:38):
want to see people like find God and really be consistent.
And you know I got to be consistent number one.
But then too, I just I know everybody. I know
what I needed. I needed a group of dudes from
Philly with baggy pants and corn rolls to say I
love the Lord, and I was like, word, I needed that.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You know what I'm saying. I did. I would you
would have never got me with the traditional you know,
come on in son and meet the Lord. I would
have never came. So I just try to be what
I needed that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
What did Kendrick say when you heard die for the Party?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Honestly, I ain't talked to dot like one on one
in a minute we talked. We got some of the
same friends. So the last thing I heard was Yo,
they rocking with it.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And and they was. He was.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
He was in the middle of doing Super Bowl stuff,
so you know what I'm saying. So it was like
one of them type of situations. But I did send
him the whole project, and I was, you know, I
put on him and like, redo the album. If you
send that verse in.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You know, I don't care, just pick one, but die
for the Party would be hard, because yeah, it'd be hard.
So yeah, I'm with it.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Let's get into H two. Oh I feel you?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Okay? All right? It tapped in.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
What you want to hear? I want to play the
joint with t I N play.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Let's play here, let's.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Get into it. We appreciate you for joining us. The
album comes out on the twenty second of August. Am
I right, yes, August twenty second Reconstruction, get it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I would love to have you at the mental Wealth
Text Bowl, man. You know I do this thing every
year called.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
The mental Wealth Text Boy, And you know I think
a religious trauma panel would be really man, bro say less,
I'm there.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It's easy, it's light work.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah, say let's all right, Well let's look craye.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Good morning every day.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Up weak, click your ass up, the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
You're finish for y'all done it.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Every day up waiting, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
You don't finished for y'all done more thing everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
It's the j Envy Jess, Hilariy Schela mean the guy
we are the breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Laila Roses here as well. We got a special guest
in the building. You got the good brother, lukra what's up? Brother,
was handing? Man? How you feeling, man, I'm good man.
It's good to be here with y'all.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Good to see you, brother. I was in the reconstruction man,
and I told him earlier. I said, if if Lucre
wasn't a quote unquote Christian rapper, they.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Would have to put this in rap album of the
Year category.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Wow, that's big.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I truly believe that that's big. This is a phenomenal
body of work.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I appreciate that. Man, Like, yeah, man, I mean, you know.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
You live what you live with you you you know. However,
how they meet you is how they see you. So
it's like they met me in the four walls of
the church, so you know that's the box. But I'm
a product of hip hop, so you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's all love. But I appreciate that. That means a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Bro absolutely that.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I want to start off with diving into the album.
First of all, how long wanted to take you to
do this album? Because this album is you could tell
you you took a lot into doing this album. I
mean even to the beat selection and it sounds like
a movie you ain't dropping.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
A few years, right, Yeah, I ain't put out an
album album in a minute. Yeah, it took me a while.
I just you know, we pieced it together. You know
what I'm saying, We pieced it together. I was real
meticulous and just like, you know what I mean, let me,
let me really like push the boundaries and stretch stuff out.
I was giving s one.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Aheadache, you know what I'm saying, Like, hey, can you
add a little bit? Can you tweak this? Can you
do this? You know what I'm saying. So it took
me a little while, but it was worth it. Man.
People rush music these days.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Man, they just make like disposable music, and I just
I just felt like it's time out for Audy.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Are you tired of being put in that box that
that you're I don't want to say people don't take
you serious, but they look at you a certain way
where they should just look at you as an artist,
a hip hop artist.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I would appreciate it. I would appreciate if they listen.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
You call me what you want to call me, hip
hop artists, but listen. Yeah, just listen to the music.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't care what you if you want to call
me whatever.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Gospel rapper, Christian rapper, Listen, that's it. Because I think
there's a misnom where people get it twisted and they
think that the music gonna sound like this or you
know what I'm saying. I'm still scarred from Like I
went to an NBA practice and like handed a But
when I did my first church closed mixtape and I
handed a player by joint.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
He was like, I don't listen to no gospel rap.
I was like, bruh, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You probably had a horrible season that season.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Listen. I'm not gonna mention that.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Like when somebody give you a Jesus pamphlet in the
street and you look at.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
It, you can't throw it. You gotta give it to
somebody else you can throw it out. Yeah, man, So
I don't I don't like that. I don't like that
people say it's corny. I'm like, bro, you got I
don't know where you even got this, Like when's the
last time you just sat and listened to a body
of work to even create.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This idea of it. So you know, as long as
you listen, I don't care.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
When I listened to it, it was my first time
listening to one of your full projects. I definitely expected
something different because of the name Reconstruction. Oh yeah, especially
because I think of you as a gospel rap artist.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And he just said it wouldn't be that.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
I mean, I'm just saying like it just happens naturally.
So I thought reconstruction gospel rap artists. I thought it
was going to be very like kind of like wrap,
but alter call is it wasn't that.
Speaker 8 (03:13):
It was more about your story, right, Why the name
reconstruction A.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Lot of different reasons.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
So reconstruction is like it's a theme, it's thematic for
my life and what I've experienced. But it's also just
the eraror we living in. We dispose people, we throw
them away. So like you see what happened at the
Coldplay concert with the Hry you know what I'm saying,
And it was like social media was excited to destroy them,
like tear them down.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
They was wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
For a lot of reasons.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
First of all, anyway, I'm not even gonna get in
a while, they was wrong. But I mean, first of all, bro,
what is you doing while you got you wrapped up
at the car? I mean, you was wrong for cheating
on your wife, but you're really wrong. You wild for.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like being bowed up hugged up like that in public.
You at whole CEO you you tripping.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
But the way social media was excited to destroy them
was is like that's what we get excited about. In
Mahamie Mike d he was tearing a part of a
treehouse in his backyard and he was doing it piece
by piece, like let me be careful because he didn't
want to just demolish it, because he wants to reuse
that would And that's what I feel like reconstructions about
it is like, God don't just want to destroy people.
(04:24):
He wants to reconstruct and reuse them. I work in
prisons all the time. I was in a prison not
too long ago, and it was a dude in there,
and I don't condone none of the stuff he did.
You know, he did some hainous things. They whooped him,
they beat him up when he first got there. But
over the course of his years there, like he's been influential,
He's changed people's.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Lives, He's done a lot.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
And how long do we got to like be looked
at as this terrible human being before it's like something
different can happen with him.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So that's kind of why I did reconstruction.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
The second reason why is because you know, the reconstruction
era in American history is a time period where you know,
disenfranchised people where but to come up from the rubble
and make a difference in society.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So it's like both both pieces.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You know, I've heard you also speak about deconstructing your
your faith before me.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So what did you discover about God?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I guess when you script away religion that made you
want to do a reconstruction.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I got.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
I caught a lot of flak from the Evangelical church
when when when black bodies were being laid in the street,
and I was very open about it, and uh, and
you know, people was like really hated that I was
standing up for social issues and and and it gave
me a lot of tension with the church, with with
you know, the broader church, American church, and so I
(05:39):
was like, well, maybe this whole thing is wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So I was ready to throw it all away.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
I went to Egypt and I got to see like
some of the Christians over there, and it was different.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
I got to read about Ethiopia and see how Christianity
was not started in America.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It's not this white man's religion.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
It's something that existed outside of the European narrative. And
you know, shout out to my white brothers and sisters,
but I'm just saying, they don't they It's a lot
of things have been co opted. It's not like this
European religion. So I had to tear down these like
American ideas of what God is, what church is, and
(06:16):
reconstruct from the perspective that the Bible really gives.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
So it's kind of like eating mom's spaghetti, Like if
you got the recipe from two twenty five years ago,
and now you're leaving out stuff that ain't the same recipe.
And I feel like the faith, so much stuff has
been left out. So I just wanted to rebuild on
the foundation. Jesus is my foundation and let's rebuild this
thing in a healthier way.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And that's what what reconstruction looks like.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
You know, in the first track, you talk about being
church heard, and it's so in threats because I was
just having a conversation with my good sister Debbie Brown
yesterday and she was talking about religious trauma, trauma people
have experienced, yeah, being in the.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Church, right, Like, what is church heard to you?
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Church heard is you know when the people that you
expect to serve you well, the people that you expect
to become your family and love you well, let you down.
But it happens everywhere, right, every It's not just in
the church. It could be you know, I remember when
the Game was crying because he thought hip hop was
(07:18):
gonna be something that it wasn't, you know what I'm saying.
And it's like he was hip hop hurt, you know
what I mean. People have expectations and the expectations ain't met.
And I think the problem is we blame God and
it ain't. That's not a God hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's the people hurt.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
People let you down, God didn't, you know what I'm saying.
So I think people turning back on church because of that.
And I you know, for me, man, I love I
you know, I ain't getting sponsored by Chipotle, but I
love Chipotle.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
They're good, but certain Chipotle's they don't be seasoning that food. Right.
It don't make me say I hate Chipotle. I'll never
go to Chipotle again.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I may not go to that one or I may
not go and buddy working behind, but I still love Chippotle.
So I think that's what people do with God and
with church, like oh, they had a terrible experience. I'm
done with God. My mom, you know, she grew up
in a religious world like that, she was done. She
didn't raise me in church because she was like, they
burnt me too bad. So you know, we had to
work through that trauma with her.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So I get it.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, for people that don't know, you know, you said
your mom didn't raise you in church, So how did
you become? And you've talked about a million one time, Yeah,
but how did you become the way that you become
if you weren't raised in church Because people to automatically
assume or he must have been born in church.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
He was on church on Tuesdays or Wednesdays.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
He did this on Thursday he did Bible study like so,
so to break that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Down, I was a straight hippie. My mom was a hippie.
She had a Buddha in the room.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
She was blazing, like, no real thoughts of who guy was,
the universe everything. She was just a wild hippie. So
that's how I grew up. And then I just was searching.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I studied Rastafarianism because I like to smoke. I studied Islam,
I studied you know, I studied a lot of things,
and I was really curious.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I was.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I was seeking. I was kind of like gen Z.
Gen Z's very spiritual. They like, well, I don't know
what's up. That's kind of how I was. And I
didn't want to mess with Christianity because I felt like
it was rigid and it was like suits and ties.
But then I went to this conference in Atlanta and I,
you know, I'm like nineteen and I see like.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Dudes with cornrows. I see this group from Philly.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Named Cross Movement and they it was baggy jeans and
it was on the block. And I was like they
had that like five percent of energy, but they was
Christians and I was like, oh, this is crazy. I
didn't know this existed, so that intrigued me, and it
made me say, well, wait a minute, if these dudes
are Christians, maybe there's something to this.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And then I.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Listened and I hadn't you know it, existential experience with God,
where you know, my heart got changed literally you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And I trusted in Jesus. And then I was like,
now what do I do?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know what I mean, I rap.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I like to rap. So the first album I listened to,
that to me was like gospel.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I didn't listen to. Gospel was a miseducation Lauryn Hill.
So I said, I want to do what she doing.
And that was kind of like the impetus of me
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You stop smoking weed? Are you still enjoyed the burning bush?
From time to time?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Initially I stopped, then years down the line, I picked
it back up, then.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I stopped again.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
It's medical now, I mean, it ain't that for me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's a lot of other things, but it ain't that
for me.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It's not I mean, you know, first of all, whether
I thought it was okay or not okay, the way
my anxiety is set up, I don't need to ever
touch nobody.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That's why I hear where you go. I deal with anxiety. Okay,
I got really bad anxiety. But yeah, Tativa would always
make me have the worst paying attacks in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, but the Indigo does the opposite.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You know, you can get it to you can get
it's so medical now, you can get it to where
it'll take out the paranoil, take out the you know,
anxiety inducing effects.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You can get it. Damn it customary the way you
want much.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I'm gonna just meditate, you know what I'm saying. I
would just siting meditated, enjoyed the sea breeze.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But hey man, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I don't want to. I don't want to devil. I
don't want to play with that. When you know I
don't have some bad panic attacks before, bro, I wouldn't
even want to. I wouldn't want to go back.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
I mean, you talk about a lot of your life
stuff in the album, so I know some of the background.
But like church wise, like because you talk so different
than a lot of the church leaders or people that
are in faith, do you get anxiety from that? Like
when you put out interviews, I watched one you were
talking to uh, I forget his name is Mike. You
all were talking about like church nominations and that not
being a real thing anymore. Oh yeah, And I was like,
(11:24):
I could never watch this with my grandma.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nah. I mean, I you just gotta know who rock
with you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I'm not afraidist to just tell the truth. Like I
just after you being in this game, been in this
game for so long, you realize like there's always gonna
be a critic. There's always gonna be somebody, and if
you don't stand for what you believe in, somebody's gonna
knock you off your pivot. I played the game too long,
you know, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Like I danced, I was.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
I remember my first time coming here. I was so nervous.
I was like, all right, what I gotta say. Let
me not mess this up. And you know, you start
feeling like I gotta represent the Christians. I gotta represent
the hip hop community. I gotta you know, and then
after a while you're just like, bro, I'm just I'm
gonna be who God called.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Me to be.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
And I don't really got time to wrestle with all
these weird things. I remember being so like torn and
how do I navigate? Like my first time meeting j
Cole was such an embarrassing moment because I I felt
like you saw me.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It was like, how
do I what was the story?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
So we was at we was at a super Bowl
party years back, and uh, now I was I was tipsy.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I was you know what I'm saying, I was indulging
a little too much.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
But uh and I no longer drink, by the way,
so case anybody, it ain't a religious thing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It's a sobriety thing. But uh, I approached j Cole
and then I'm like, okay, what do I do? What
do I say? That's Jake Cole?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
I don't And then what comes out of my mouth is, hey, bro,
do you believe in Jesus?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
And it was just like not hello, now, what's up?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Bro?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
My name is like nothing. It was just like who
is Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You said it? Like what's that you claim?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Press? Like for the Kingdom? It was like I was,
you know what I'm saying, Like I really tragicked me.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
So he was like, I mean I grew up in church,
but I'm processing what I believe, and you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And I was like, all right. I was like, well
take my number down.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
He took my number down, and then I was like
he walked away when and I said, hey, man, you
didn't even put my number in my name in your phone.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
How you gonna call me back? You don't know my name?
I really crashing out like an idiot. You know who
you are? I said that to him. He looked, he
was like, I know who you are, nigga. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
I was like, oh, I felt stupid, but it was
that era. You know, this is like ten years ago, but.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was stupid.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
It like just nervous, not knowing who to be, not
knowing how to walk in my own identity, not knowing
how to be who God called me to be, and
just and I think it just took time for me
to get comfortable in my own skin. So I don't
really like you, like you was saying, I don't trip
no more when like the religious community may be mad
at me, the non religious came to be maybe mad
(14:00):
at me, but you met.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Since then, I ain't to me if I was I'm
not gonna front if I was called i'd be like
Craig fake and I really not say that I met
you drunk as hell. He couldn't tell though, if you're
talking like that, he ran, I believe in Jesus did
I deserved that one?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Y'all haven't spoke at all. I wonder what he thinks
to you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I don't know, bro, I don't know. It was bad, crazy.
It was bad, Bro, it was bad. But I mean,
but I own it. It's like I own it. You
know what I'm saying. I own my story. It's like,
that's kind of what you did the Prince.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Same thing, Yes it is. What's the first thing you said?
The Prince? First of all? How it is Prince?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
He one morning he was up here at the radio station,
like five in the morning.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Somebody was like your princess him, like Prince, why would
prince be hit?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
And he we went, we put the station on all
over we went, and he was walking down the hall
with two old white women and he was nice as hell.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
He came up to us, spoke not nice as hell,
I'm sorry, he was nice as heaven. And he came
up to us. What's the first thing you said? I
that I grew up. Jehovah Witness too.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Didn even say hello, that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's the same story.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Like that's what you did. You said it was awkward
and I got you hello. Yeah, six o'clock in the morning.
I mean, that's that's religious trauma. That's a big what
are you.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Talking about that?
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Let's take a minute there, legends, can we talk about
that forgion.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
That's that's such religious trauma. That's like, yeah, my brother.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
That's coy Oh. Yeah, that's that's cult action. And I
know Jeova's winning is gonna come to me for that.
But that's a that's a whole cult.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I don't think it's a cult. I have to say
that because my mom is.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I mean, you don't mean it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I got to say because my mom, somebody's going to
send this to her. I don't think it's a cult.
But I understand what you're saying, because man, when you're
a kid and you growing up and everybody else celebrating
the holiday.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Religion, religion is the term religion. I mean Biblically, religion
is like it's a practice, right, But what we mean
in our society is like it is rules without relationship
in a lot of way. It's like religion to me
is if you love your wife, you come home with
flowers and you say, here's what I'm supposed to give you, sweetheart.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
That's religious relationship.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Is I was thinking about you all day, baby, I
got you some flowers and I just wanted to show
you some That's relationship. So to me, it's like I
came out to woman, I can't have birthday parties, and
I got to do all these things and button up this.
I don't even know if I got a relationship with God, Like,
why would I want to be connected to a God
who don't want to.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
How do you raise kids in religion then, because I
think a lot of people would say that there's like,
I mean, you don't have that right because you said
your mom didn't. Really, Yeah, I got three kids, but okay,
so are you raising your kids in religion and how
do you do it?
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Then?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In relationship?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, that's how I mean.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I don't like, Hey, kids, I'm bringing we're going to
church because I feel like this is the healthiest place
for you because I've met God. I don't My daughter's
the only one of my kids who's gotten baptized. Because
I'm like I don't want to force nothing on y'all.
Y'all gonna have to make this decision for yourself. This
was her decision that she made, and we celebrate that.
(17:20):
I've had hard convos with my oldest son, who was like,
I don't know if I believe this is would I
be a Muslim if I done live in this house?
And we have those dialogues, and I love those, like, yeah,
let's go there. Let's have these conversations so that he
can but I want him to see the consistency of
my life. He's like, nah, Dad, Like he talks about
the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
gentle and self control, but then he lives it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
He apologizes when he mess up because I.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
Just passed, but then I come back and like he
sees that I have a relationship with God and for him,
he's made that decision on his own as well. But
it's like, I'm not saying you better, I'm saying this
is what I feel like is the healthiest way.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
That's why I don't like the holdest fellowship at the
Kingdom Hall. You know, that's actually what turned me off
to it. Whether I whether I realized that or not.
But as I got older, I realized the reason I
was turned off to it is when watching my father
get this fellowship. The father needed help in that moment.
He was with substance abuse issues. Yeah, you know this
fellowship of man for that, and then they make you
(18:18):
come to the Kingdom Hall, but nobody speaks to you,
and they announced to the whole congregation.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Such and such has been this fellowship from the Kingdom.
I'm like, God, but your pops is in there and
they just cancel them might dinner from everybody.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Nobody talks like they don't talk to you when you're
fellow and how you supposed to heal?
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I see what I'm saying, Like crazy, that's what I'm saying,
Like like I don't get that. I was just when
I was walking down the street yesterday, a dude on
the block passed me the flyer and then he was
like a street preacher and he ended up being a
dope one. But a lot of times my issue with
street preachers too is just like, bro, you yelling at people,
you condemning people like you don't even know their names.
I got the one dude ran upon me as I
(18:53):
was leaving a wu Tang concert and he was.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Like, look right, what are you doing here? I was like,
enjoying some music, you know what I'm saying, Like you know?
But then he was blasting me and blasting people around him.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
So I walked up to this table and I'm like, bro,
he was in an argument with another dude, and I said, yo,
my man, what's your name? And the dude he was
arguing with told me his name. I said, where you're from?
You told me where he's from. I said, word, man,
you want to get together sometime, maybe get coffee and
talk about what you believe.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
He's like, I'm down. I said, how.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
About you try that my guy, instead of yelling at
him and telling him he's going to hell?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
But it's like, that's the stuff I don't I can't
fool with. Like it's like, there ain't no relationship in that.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
How do you maintain faith in a culture like hip
hop that often monetizes your trauma?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
But resistion?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Woo, that's a that's a that's a deep one right there. Bro.
I think I think there's irresponsibility. I get it.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
You a young dude off the block. This is an
opportunity for you to get a check. The industry, the
powers that be say hey, tell that story five more
times and you're gonna get more checks. And you don't
know an enough about who you are, your own identity,
your value, your self worth to even understand.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Like I'm being like, you.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Know, used, But I don't think that's how hip hop started.
That wasn't the the the how it initiated. It was
us as grits in the community telling what was going
on around us, not like trying to like capitalize off
artists trauma, porn, you know what I'm saying. So I
don't like that, and so that's why I do bring
(20:27):
the healing side. That's why even when I collaborate with
other artists, like you know, and I did a song
with Walker back in the day, and I was like,
let's talk about the other side of the game. Everybody
talks about selling drugs, but no one talks about the
like I done sold drugs, You done sold drugs, but
no one talks about the trauma that come with that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
The what's it like sitting.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Behind you know, a cell, what's it like seeing my
daddy is you know, was a crack addict for it
for years and just to see that reality and live
live under that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
So it's like, let's talk about the trauma of that
and in the healing aspect of it is I'm walking
and breathing as a healed individual.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
I think people want me to be perfect so many
times without understanding where I came from, what I came through,
and it's like, we'll be perfect, and I'm like, look,
I'm not as bad as you think I am. But
I'm not as good as you think I am either.
I'm a human being in the middle trying to walk
this thing out as best I can.
Speaker 7 (21:18):
Yeah, dang, that was Yeah, people in church on talk
like that. I like what you and Tim Ross do
a whole lot because of that. But I guess one
of my questions, and maybe I'll stop asking you faith
based questions, is at what point when so you grew
up in this household where your mom is not pressing
you to do any right and then you find God
(21:40):
through your own journey, at what point do you because
you've said you hate the church.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
You said it on this album.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I said I hated, hated, hated, Yes, so what makes.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
You bring people?
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Because when people find God, they go find a physical church,
and a lot of times they can't separate the two, right,
what makes you bring people to a physical church to
expose them to what might become a.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Church is Yeah, I love the church. I love the church.
The big sea. The people who love God all around
the world is global. It's not American. The models that
we see for church are generally like sometimes it's an
industrial complex. Sometimes it's a system. The work still get done.
Like sometimes it's like I get it. It's like it's
(22:24):
an infrastructure. It's a system. There's lights, and there's cameras,
and there's these things, like it's an oratorial speech being
given in music, it's a Broadway production, I get it.
That's not what church is. That is a expression from
the people who love God. But what church is is
(22:45):
a gathering of God's people who come together to you know,
as a community, to live out, to celebrate God, to
navigate their lifestyle. So some of the other things that
get built up that we call church, you know, shout
out to my guy Carl Lenz and yeah, you know,
(23:07):
he was a part of that complex, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And it's like they're made the pastors are made out
to be gurrules. None of them are Gur rules. They
giraffes on ice skates. They don't got it.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
They don't got it figured out, you know. But everyone
sees them as gurus. So when they fall aslip, they
should be responsible. But they've been propped up to be
these gurrules, and it's like, bro, they fooling themselves thinking
they got it all together. So I don't hate the church.
I love the church. The expressions we see a lot
of times in America, I think are silly, you know
(23:40):
what I'm saying, But I navigate him and I.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Deal with them because that's where we are as a culture.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
You know what I'm saying. It's like it's like hip hop.
It's like, I know what hip hop used to look like.
I know it looks like now. I think some stuff
is silly. I think having to make a TikTok go
viral for people to enjoy your song is silly.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
But it's where we are. So I'm not just down
in it. I'm like, not stupid y'all, dumb y'all. It's like,
it's where we are.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I love Call for the same reason I love a
lot of your music is because y'all are not afraid
to show people that you made mistakes. Y'all not afraid
to show people that you flawed. Y'all not afraid to
show people that you still wrestle with the same things.
We all wrestle with, the insecurities, Like I love on
to die for the party When you started off, he said,
I was wrestling, like should I write a verse? The
culture got enough cloud chasing bultures out here trying to
prove they work.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
They need attention.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
They can't imagine me not trying to make myself look
bigger off of this Kendrick Mintion.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Like when you hear you rap that, I can hear
you wrestling with write man, you know what I mean? Like,
but he did shout me out.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
I mean, I can't just let this go by s
see man, I was telling you right, DOT will throw
you a He'll throw you a layup.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it's like, do I dunk this or not? Because
because I don't, especially for him, because he got so
many cloud chasers, he got so many just so for me.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
For for Kendrick to for not to mention me in
the song and say, I wonder what La Cray would
do that first of all, you're paying homage to like
my lifestyle, my processing. It's not like he's a good craze,
a good rapper. He's saying, I wonder what cra would
do in this, yeah, this circumstance. And for me, it's
like I didn't want to say nothing my homie at
(25:15):
He was like, you need to respond.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I said, nah, Bro, I ain't. That's lame, like eyes nasty.
It just feels nasty. He was like, Bro, the world
is watching, the world is listening. The man said your name.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Asked you a question.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
He did ask me a question, and so I was like, ah,
I try.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
And I really didn't even like it when I was
writing it. And then I see I didn't even like it,
and it just you know, So I sent out the
whole album and.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I said, you pick a song. Man, I'm waiting. I
ain't hurt nothing back.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Love the last line on it. You said, you said
love his patience. So I'm trusting in the narrative. And
christ ain't watched the party die. He died in status
of it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Basically, like you know on the song he was saying
his on his song, you know, watch the party die?
It's kind of like it's like, man, y'all, he sees
the dysfunction and he's like, ugh, you know what I mean,
And we all see the dysfunction, and we all like,
but if we really want to end all the evil
(26:24):
that exists out there, that means we gonna die too,
you know, because there's evil that exists in here. So
you got to be also mad at yourself. And Jesus
didn't sit back and say, yeah, y'all are disgusting. He said,
I'm gonna I'm gonna take that disgust on myself.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I'm gonna lay my life down and let y'all walk
across my back to cleanliness and to wholeness. Instead of
condemning y'all, I'm gonna reach my hand out.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
To save y'all.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
So that was the picture, was pain instead of just
being condemning. Because when you see something that you hate,
you're like, but then you gotta look in the mirror
sometimes and be like, and if I want it all.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
To go, I gotta go with it. So Jesus is like, yes, whack,
but I'm I'll take your ugliness on me, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
So because Kendrick said, f these words up or showing
what prayer do. So you showing him what prayer do empathy.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
That's how I got it. I said that earlier he
was like, I ain't hear that. That wasn't right.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, what Kendrick said, that is what I said.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
I said.
Speaker 8 (27:22):
What I said was from what I took from your verse.
Speaker 7 (27:25):
You decided or you you self reflected, and you said
I can't watch the party die because if the party
had died, I would have died too.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Because that is what I said.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
I said, because you felt like you were a part
of what people are saying is disgusting. At one point
you had to find your mission. Literally what I said,
and you said, I didn't hear that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
She heard you say that eloquently.
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Basically, that's what I took from it. He said something else,
but we're gonna let him ride.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But I do have a question.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, you know record with Killer Mike and t I crazy.
Do you get people when you ask people for like
you send your album to cat out or you send
songs to other artists? Do you a lot of times
do artists not want to do it because they put
you in that box? Do they question themselves because.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
You they won't say that, They've never said it overtly.
I'm sure that's an issue for people. I've never heard it.
When people get to know me, there's a level of respect.
So like me and Mike go years back, like killing
Mike and our good friends. You know what I'm saying,
Like that's my dog. But I mean we've had some
some conversations. You know, obviously we don't agree on everything,
(28:33):
but he respects me and I respect him, and so
it's like this mutual respect where it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I see where you at and I'm gonna come on
your playing field and rock with you.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
There.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
There might be some other people who like, now, why
would we do something?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Why would I fool with him?
Speaker 5 (28:49):
They ain't never said it to me, but I'll be
feeling like in my experience, people people closet they faith
and they look for outlets to express it, and then
I give them the outlet a lot of times like
they like I want to like I remember when I mean,
I don't know about faith wise, but I know twenty
one Savage has said some somewhere along the line like
(29:10):
he wish he didn't have to rap about the stuff
he rap about all the time, and it's like, that's
what people expect of them. And I'm like, I think
there's a lot of people who feel like that in
the faith world. And it's like, yes, this gave me
a chance to say, well, what I really wanted to say,
you know what I mean? So, but yeah, I don't know, man,
they if they if that's how they feel, that's how
they feel.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I think people like that have never listened to your music.
When I listen to Headphones, that's not a gospel record, that's.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Not a faith based record. That's a record about grief, yep.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
And there's three brothers that are dealing with various levels
of grief and different people that they're grieving, and they're
just expressing that. And even that same what you say
that I hope you got headphones and heaven? Yeah, oh man, Honestly,
it just gave me chills, Like damn, that's a dope
way of saying, y'all, I hope that d.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Can't hear me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yep, That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is.
I try to find common ground. That's what I try
to do. Where's our common ground?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Cause, like the Reconstruction album is not just like reconstructing
your faith, reconstruct your marriage, reconstruct your life, reconstruct your
finances like there's common ground. I may have a different
angle on, but I'm still living the same life you
live in, Like I'm still out here experiencing it. Like
I'm gonna lose people. You're gonna lose people. I'm gonna
deal with family issues. You're gonna deal with family issues.
(30:22):
So I'm like, let's talk about it in song. And
you know, I catch a lot of flak, Like, man,
I love my dude, big krit Man. When we did
a feature years ago, they blacked my Christian The religious folks,
the religious fans blasted him so bad. It made him
feel they was blasting me, saying, how dare you collaborate
(30:42):
with this like worldly artist. It made him feel a
way about Christians because they was on my head and
he was like, am I this filthy, ugly, nasty person
like dang? And I'm like, man, why would you not
want to welcome somebody into the conversation about these things?
You want to shun them and push them away instead
(31:02):
of welcoming men.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
To have conversations. So I want to reconstruct that.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
I want to like reconstruct that type of dynamic in
relationship and redefine people's experience with Christians, because I think
it's it's a weird dynamic, you know what I'm saying,
It's just really weird in America.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
Has that worked for you?
Speaker 7 (31:18):
I saw your response to Young Thug when he tweeted,
if you're a rapper and you're a rat, you've got
to just go gospel twenty. You try to reach out
and kind of give him that like, Hey, it's good
over here. It's not a grave yard. It's a garden.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Have y'all spoke, Nah, but I'm down, Like Thug, holler
at me. I mean, it's not a graveyard, it's a garden.
Were thriving, were growing, I got health, I got My
life comes with the same hardship as anybody else's. Like,
you won't get wisdom without suffering, so you gonna suffer.
But I don't be worried about noe, you know, warrants,
(31:54):
you know what I'm saying. I go home to my
wife on a regular basis, I'm raising my kids. We
have great relationship dynamic. Like I got accolades, I got awards.
That's not what I do it for I pay my
bills on time. I'm fine, I'm not in a graveyard.
And I guess to me, I'm like, why do rats
have to go to gospel? Like?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
What is?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
To me?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It sounds like that's a lame place for lane? The
lane we send the lanes over there. And I'm like, okay,
I mean in a sense, you're right, because Jesus makes
the lame walk.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
They used to do that too, whenever like an artist
would get in trouble, like an artist would get in
trouble to.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Be like he got a gospel right.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I've seen that in my own
I've seen artists get in trouble in my phone, you ring, Hey,
you need to make a song?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Cut it out.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I'm dead serious.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I ain't even no names.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I ain't names.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
I love the Brick by Brick record too, because when
I saw it, I'm like, what look about to do
with this one?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
What was the mindset with that.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Brick by brick?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
You know what I'm saying is really just a song
about building. Man, if you're gonna reconstruct something, you do
a brick by brick, You know what I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Saying, if you played it out like it might have
been dope.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
I mean, yes, but you know what I'm saying, it's
a play on words. It's a double entendre. It's also
tapping into my you know, old ways. But then it's
like it's a different types of brick, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And I'm moving these days.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
And then I got this young spit of Miso, you
know what I'm saying. She out of Houston, and she five,
and I was like, yo, that's another thing. It's a
whole young crop of the you know, young cropper of
artists who killing it. And it's like, man, I'm just
trying to shine some light as an og. Now I'm like,
let me shine some light back on these young artists
and let them do their thing. Because when I first
(33:42):
came up, it was just me and I was like, man,
it's just me out here. You know, I'm doing the
BT cipher. Them jokers put me in an international cipher.
They didn't even know what category.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
To put me in, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
So I'm like, well, I don't know what. So now
it's like, nah, I'm not rolling solo no more. I'm
letting it I'm opening the doors for everybody.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
He was in the street selling dope. And I know
you probably used to pray in but you can God
bless me? Can God really bless the trap?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
He did?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You ain't.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
I don't know if you heard my Bible story, bro.
I literally I was making a run. I'm trespassing on
school property. I was wild and I was at a
high school on school property. They say, called the police.
I thought I looked like a high school student, so
but I could didn't I was. They called the police.
The police came. I'm ditching. I'm running about the school.
(34:33):
I get back to my car. As soon as I
get to my car with work in my car, the
police snatched me up. And I didn't have a lot,
and that was no keys. I wouldn't know, you know,
I wouldn't jay z out here, you know what I'm saying.
But I'm not trying to put his business out here.
I'm just saying I wouldn't pushing uh. But uh, but
(34:56):
the police come and they snatched me up. Now, the
crazy part about it was I had a Bible in
my car that my grandmother had given me, and I
was at.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
This point, I'm a Christian but I'm just wilding. I'm
just on a downward trajectory.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
But I was reading my Bible a lot, and I
had some phases where I highlighted a lot of stuff.
I got notes in that joint. I got it on
a dash. The police officer comes in my he I'm
sitting in the back of the car. He come searched
my car and he come back. He said, that's your Bible.
I said, yeah, that's my Bible. He said, you've been
reading that Huh. I said, yes, sir, I need to
read it more. He said, I want you to stay
(35:32):
in that Bible. Get out of my car. And I
was like, okay, I go back to my car. Work gone,
work is gone.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Wow. I don't know if that was an angel or
real police officer. I don't know what. I don't ask
no questions. I'm here though. Wow, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So when you're writing, how do you discern between what's
meant for, like I guess the booth and it what's
meant for, like the prayer closet.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
For me, if it exposes somebody else's business, I try
not to rap about it unless I get their approval,
you know, because I tell a lot of stories, and
I got a lot of people involved in different stuff,
and you know, if it's too personal, if they like, hey,
you're telling my story now, bro, then I'm like, you're right.
I respect that. So then I try to respect that myself.
(36:21):
I don't mind being transparent, you know what I'm saying.
And shout out to my man, Jason Wilson, I say,
y'all had him on the pot too.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Jason.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
He my dude, he said, man, he said, stop saying
be vulnerable, be transparent.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, that's good.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
So you know, I don't want to put myself in
a position where I'm my hands is up and you
can do whatever you want to do to me. But
I want to be open and transparent so that you
can relate. You can see my scars, because if you
see my scars, then you know your wounds can heal.
So I don't mind sharing some of the stuff that
I got, but I just try to keep other people's
business out of it. I take that to the prayer closet,
(36:55):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So what does it mean to be in the world right?
Not of it? But your job as an MC is
the move crowds in the world.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, I mean you be in it. You know what
I'm saying. I was of it for a season. I
have my season. I talk about it on my you
know I had. I've been. I've been like sober, like
eight years I've been.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
You know, it's people don't understand this industry will get
you like they don't get it, like fame is fake,
it's a drug, it's not real. But boy, when you
you know, ten years ago I had a number one
album in the country, like over everybody, everybody calling my phone,
all my favorite artists. You get gassed. You start like,
(37:38):
oh man, I'm somebody, and you forget you. It was
already somebody. God God knew you before any of these
other people did. So I was in my you know,
I got absorbed, and what ended up happening for me
is I wasn't I was not in the world and
I was of it. But I was trying to fight it,
(37:59):
and I was trying to play tug of war. It
wasn't like I just gave up. It was like I
have moments I dip in, dip out. So you can't
play tuggle war by yourself. You know what I'm saying.
So now I'm out here, I'm more confident in who
I am. I keep people with me and I want
to relate, you know what I'm saying. I'm also not
tempted by the same stuff. And I think a lot
of times.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
People will be like, why are you over there? I'm like, bro,
that that's so ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Like I ain't that don't do nothing for me, you
know what I'm saying, Like, I am not tempted BYuT
half of the things that used to be a temptation.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Like I'm just I'm past that phase of life. I'm
sure you are. If you was to blaze up right now,
I wouldn't be like, oh God, what do I do?
What do I do? Do I take it or not?
I just be like I'm not smoking, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (38:39):
So you say you keep people with you?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah? Is it?
Speaker 7 (38:42):
Because sometimes too, when people get into like the spiritual
realm of like having this relationship with God, they separate
from anybody that doesn't is not at the same place
in the journey.
Speaker 8 (38:51):
So who are the people that you keep it with you?
Speaker 4 (38:53):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:54):
I keep I keep two types of people, or really
three types of people with me, I keep I keep
people who are a half a step ahead of me.
People are walking alongside of me, and people are half
a step behind me.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
So if you half a step ahead of me, I
can learn something from me. You know, I feel like
Jason Wilson half a step ahead of me. I'm like, man,
I can learn something from Jason three or four, you
know what I'm saying. So I keep people like that
around me, people who have a step, who walking along
side of me, like yeah, you we on the same page,
on the same mission.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And people who have a step.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
I gotta keep young, young, young hitters with me all
the time because I want them to see learn, grow, build,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
So, and you got to know you can learn from
anybody as well.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
So that's what I try to expose them to, is
like I want the youngins to see I'm not like starstruck.
I want the people who next to me to get
exposed as well, because I'm like, I'm sitting.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
In here with Entrepreneur podcasts guru.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
It's like I can sit and learn from them, and
I want my peers to have access to that and
be able to technoledge as well, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
So yeah, I love what.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
You're doing, man, because I feel like there's a lot
of people turning away from like traditional faith structures and
they're looking for God and other things. And I think
it's the artists in the pastors because I give pastors
to you know, pastor Saturday robbing is so much credit.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
It's the past is like that that are meeting people
where they are.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Fact.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know that's going to really give give, reintroduce hope,
yep to a generation.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
I'm one hundred percent with it. And I mean, you know,
some are gonna be non traditional, some gonna be trad.
You just got to run in your lane, you know,
I run in my lane. I love different people who
got different applications. And it's not me against anybody else,
you know, it's me. I ain't trying to compete with you.
I'm trying to eat with you, you know what I mean.
So who, I want to see the church thrive. I
(40:38):
want to see people like find God and really be consistent.
And you know I got to be consistent number one.
But then too, I just I know everybody. I know
what I needed. I needed a group of dudes from
Philly with baggy pants and corn rolls to say I
love the Lord, and I was like, word, I needed that.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You know what I'm saying. I did. I would you
would have never got me with the traditional you know,
come on in son and meet the Lord. I would
have never came. So I just try to be what
I needed that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
What did Kendrick say when you heard die for the Party?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Honestly, I ain't talked to dot like one on one
in a minute we talked. We got some of the
same friends. So the last thing I heard was Yo,
they rocking with it.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And and they was. He was.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
He was in the middle of doing Super Bowl stuff,
so you know what I'm saying. So it was like
one of them type of situations. But I did send
him the whole project, and I was, you know, I
put on him and like, redo the album. If you
send that verse in.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You know, I don't care, just pick one, but die
for the Party would be hard, because yeah, it'd be hard.
So yeah, I'm with it.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Let's get into H two. Oh I feel you?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Okay? All right? It tapped in.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
What you want to hear? I want to play the
joint with t I N play.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Let's play here, let's.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Get into it. We appreciate you for joining us. The
album comes out on the twenty second of August. Am
I right, yes, August twenty second Reconstruction, get it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I would love to have you at the mental Wealth
Text Bowl, man. You know I do this thing every
year called.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
The mental Wealth Text Boy, And you know I think
a religious trauma panel would be really man, bro say less,
I'm there.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It's easy, it's light work.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah, say let's all right, Well let's look craye.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Good morning every day.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Up weak, click your ass up, the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
You're finish for y'all done it.
The Breakfast Club News
Hosts And Creators
Charlamagne Tha God
DJ Envy
Jess Hilarious
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