August 19, 2024 • 45 mins
The Breakfast Club sit down with director Lee Daniels and actress Andra Day to dive deep into their latest film, ‘The Deliverance.' Lee Daniels opens up about the process of creating faith thrillers and the impact these stories have on audiences. Daniels' touches on his experiences working with Mo'Nique, Jussie Smollett. Listen for more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The Breakfast Club Morning, everybody in stee j n V,
Jess hilarious, Charlamagne the guy.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We are the Breakfast Club. Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Jess is on maternity leave, so Laura Lossa is holding
it down with us, and we got some special guests
in the building. New film Deliverance is on Netflix August thirtieth.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have Lee Daniels and Andre Day.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome Andre, Lee, Andrew.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
You working, and and I said, and Day, Andrew you
And I know.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Some people do say you literally character character, you always
get it right. You were seriously just asking her?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
He has never said I'm always in her character when
she's working, but I am always even Billy Red.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How are y'all feeling? First and foremost, how y'all feeling good?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I feel like good?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah? Really, yeah, I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I'm always good.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
When did y'all develop this chemistry?
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Because it's clearly can't be just something that's you know, done,
when y'all are working like you must have liked we're
each other.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
We're together.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I told her, I was like, you stuck for like right.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I didn't want her for I didn't want to beat
her for Billy because she hadn't acted before. Yeah, I
really didn't, you know. And then she didn't want to
do Billy.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I hadn't acted before.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And then I met her, Yeah, talking to the mic,
I met her, and then I fell in love with her,
and then we just sort of like we it became
kismet and then you see what that chemistry is like
you always see what the chemistry is, like what it
is on screen, and what she was was what Billy
was was the lovely hair for each other.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, same, it was. We had.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I didn't want to do it either because I was
just you know, scared to act and because I had
never done it before and I do respect the craft.
But I was like, well, let me just meet with him,
because you know, at the end of the day, it's
a great person to meet, Like he's a legend, and
maybe he wants music for the movie something like that,
you know, And we did. We literally just fell in love.
And also that day fell and I love Billie Holliday,
like that's where the day and my name comes from.
(02:04):
And so I saw in him. He was a huge
fan of Lady Sings of Blues, but he had discovered
newly her story how she was fighting against racial terror
in America, singing strange fruit like to the detriment of
her you know, her life was in danger, and so
he really wanted to tell that story vindicate her legacy.
And that was just like Wow, that's amazing. And then
(02:26):
you know, you don't often meet people who believe in you,
sometimes even more than you believe in yourself, and that
is That's how Lee has been in my life. So
at this point it went from like Hey, I don't
know how to just like I trust him and when
it comes to anything.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
So Lee, as a director, do you have like actors
and actresses that are like amused for you, like sort
of like when the painter finds a favorite color of
favorite hue, they use it in all their art.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, any Yes, Monique is one of them. Nicole Kitman
is one of them. Glenn Close now is one of them,
Andrew is certainly one of them. Uh, They're a group
of people that Taraji p Henson, there's a group of
actors that you just know that. No, I'm a nigga
that know that. I you know, I don't I'm not
(03:12):
politically correct when I'm talking and you know, I come
from a specific generation that you know and and and
that they that they protect me from myself, and I
don't know how to Sometimes I don't know the rules
of today.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
I don't want you to. I want you to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And sometimes because there's things that that he could have
said twenty years ago that would be fine that he
can't say now, they would try to quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Sixty five you know how to.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
Know how people did? I love watching you in interviews.
You don't do a lot of them, though, Is that why?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Because because I know that you know this, this this
new cancel coach something, I'm like, like, my right before
I pushed sin, I got social media. I have to
hire what. I gotta hire a social media person out
to tell you not to push. I literally have to
hire a social media person because I'll say the wrong word. It. Yeah,
(04:13):
it's really crazy. That's not how it started.
Speaker 8 (04:15):
And for you, let me tell y'all.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
He turned the whole phone off. He said, just.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Now, how was Monique doing?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You mentioned Monique? How was she doing?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
She's great? You know what? And that made me take
a look at this that interview that you know when
she was up here called them Leonard.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It was fantastic getting back together with her. It was
part of the reason that we did the film. For
me was I think we're in some dark time. I'm
always a step ahead of it. I think I'm a
little psychic because I'm a little ahead of everything that's happened.
And I remember when I did Empire, it was really
too uh because I was experiencing so much homophobia from
(05:07):
the from from from my own people. It was hard
enough to get movies made as a black man when
I came into Hollywood because it was sort of pre
Spike Lee and posted black exploiterra era, exploitation era, and
but the homophobia was really real, and I dealt with
it with my own people. So anyway I did, I
(05:31):
did Empire, and that, you know, i'd even know what
I was doing. I was expressing my feelings, you know.
And the same thing with with this right here, this,
I feel we're in dark times. I know that we're
in dark times, and for me, it was about finding
my higher power, you know. And after I did the movie,
(05:51):
there was a group of us that were summoned to Uh,
to Biden's We were trying to figure out how to
get him into office as black men voting for him.
And so it was Chris Rock and Sam Jackson.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
Wasting your time t he was table you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, no, no, this is before we understand that.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Meeting that he needed to step years ago, you need
to step me.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
What what made you think that? Because I was because
he's been saying for a long time and people were
saying that we were were not representing and this, that
and the other. But we've seen it and felt.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
A year ago I was saying he should step down, and.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
He was giving me hell for I was really I
was giving you that.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Did you walked in that meeting and he was like, what, No,
this is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The president of the United States. Whoa But he was
he would come back with very much like alertness. He
was like he would be like this and say is
he there? And then you come up and go, I've
done more for black people than any president in the
United States of America, including Obama. And he started listing
off the facts and listing off the facts and like
(06:59):
I think we the teeth was like, well, you should
tell people this. You should be out in the streets
telling people this because black men need to understand this,
and and he said, I'm too busy trying to stop
nuclear war.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Now, see, I'm glad you said continue I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
He said, I'm too busy trying to stop nuclear war
to go out and promote myself and what I'm doing,
because I'm doing the work. And then I realized that
in that moment how serious he was, because he got it,
got real somber in there. And I said, this is
the reason why I'm doing my movie, because it like
this boom right now going by, we better be able
(07:34):
to find it. I don't care whether it's Allah for me,
it's Jesus is Buddha. We need to find our higher power.
And that was the purpose of me trying to do
this film.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Right now, I said, what I was saying about, I'll
talk about earlier this week. There's so much casual conversation
about nuclear war, and like everybody's so focused and distracted
about the nonsense, like Donald Trump and you almost had
a call the other day and Donald Trump literally said
on the call, we should be worried about nuclear warming
because North Korea is crazy, China's crazy, Russ crazy. All
the take is one maniac to push a button, and
(08:04):
we focused on all the nonsense that he said instead
of like, no, listen to what he said just now
and to hear that Biden said that to you, that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, it was terrible, and so because we could be
going tomorrow, and so for me, it was really about
and that was part of Monique too. You know, part
of the healing of it all is like, you know,
who cares whether I don't care what I did, I mean,
whatever it was that I upset you about, I upset you.
I'm sixty five years old. I don't want to. I
want to make sure that I'm good. You know that
this is as much I can spread as much love
(08:34):
and do as much healing as I can. And that
was part of the whole journey of this of this film.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's about break down. What it's about for people that
don't know you're good at it really good.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's uh, you know, okay, So you know where do
I start with this? It's it's really well, first of all,
it's a story about this single mother, single black mother,
and she's really she's dealing with a At the crux
of it, there's spirit, like he said, trying to scare
you to your higher power. But there's also a lot
(09:06):
of generational trauma. So it's this idea that she's trying
to be the best mother that she can be. She's
trying to pour into her kids with all the tools
that she's been given, which is not much, but she
has been given a lot of pain. And so her
mother has now moved into the house with her, so
she's kind of faced with that trauma daily. But her
mother is also a product of trauma. So it's definitely talking.
It's physically she is fighting demons, right. The kids are
(09:28):
actually possessed, and so you have that element, that horror
element in there, but she's also battling her own personal demons.
And I love the metaphor that the demons that we
don't deal within ourselves, they will absolutely possess our kids
in future generations and robos of our futures. It's really,
you know, one of the things I say, and we've
talked about the genre a lot, because that's the cause.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Is it thriller? Is it horror?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I think that for people to think that this is
solely a horror movie, they would be remiss to walk
away from it based on just that there's it's a
faith based thriller, it's a family drama, it is a
horror movie. So there's a lot of elements, but it's
based on a true story. Ultimately, it's based on the
Haunting of a house in Gary, Indiana, the Amazon LaToya
(10:15):
and LaToya amens, but loosely based off of that. Lee
really did a great job of just creating new characters
in their own life. So I think there's a lot
of lessons in it. There's a lot of healing in it.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
There was a friend of mine actually who went to
one of the screenings, and I actually saw her in
church that following weekend and I had asked her if
she goes here? She said no, I watched the movie
and then I showed up here on Sunday. And so
I think there's a lot of healing and transformation, as
he said, regardless of what your faith is. But you know,
she's she's a budding alcoholic. You know, she's dealing with addictions.
She's trying to cope in a bunch of ways. She's
(10:48):
trying to be better than the generation that came before her,
which is what we're all trying.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And so Basically it's about yeah, I think that, and
then we think that she's abusing her kids. Mm hm,
and uh so social services comes, the cops come, the
principal come, take the kids away, and there's it. And
then they see a little kid walking up upside down
(11:13):
behind the wall, so they realize that. But they still
got to take the kids because the kids are being
abused in the house. And so it's, uh, she's fighting
social services because they will not believe that she's not
beating her kids and the demon in the house. It's
about black women not being believed, and it's also about
(11:37):
it's also it's also about finding she has to she
has to find her higher power to fight that demon
that's in the house.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
And I like y'all talking about horror, right, because it's
not just the demons that are the horror, Like you said,
it's the generation of abuse. It's the alcoholism, it's the poverty,
it's the addictions.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Those are all horror. Precious was a horror movie, to.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Absolutely I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Some people say it was a comedy.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
No.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
I think to his point, if you were a daughter
and you grew up in a household with a mom
who is dealing with her own things and doesn't know
how to mother you through that. You watch something like
President it make you be like, oh, shoot, I remember
that feeling like it does give that. I felt like
that watching this definitely okay.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
So how do you not get traumatized?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I you know, I don't know that I didn't get traumatized. No, No,
I mean I'm a praying person. I'm a person of faith,
so I think that, you know, even going into it,
you know, there has to be like intention, right, I
think this if this was just sort of exploiting you know,
black pain, if this was exploiting kind of the demonocral.
I believe in the spirit, realm, right, I'm a Christian,
(12:48):
I'm a believer. So even initially when he first brought
it to me, initially it was a yes, just because
at this point I had just really again fallen in
love with this person. I'm like, I trust him completely,
I'm excited about everything he's doing. But my only hesitation was, oh,
do I want to do something that.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Deals with that?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Obviously, if you've come from any type of church background,
it can be very very they're very strong opinions about
why would.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
You don't turn exactly?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So they you know, like you said, people feel like,
oh they can jump on you. They can do But
I think we also have this misconception that we're never
supposed to look into that world or talk about that world.
But for me, the scriptures that I read, I'm like,
it's all throughout it. And I think what I loved
about this, and what I loved about Lee's goal is
that he didn't want to just kind of, you know,
marinate in that area. He wanted to show a story
(13:38):
of overcoming and that's what she does. And so for me,
it was really it was praying going into it, like
I I what I will say is that I I
had a hesitation just because of the the subject matter,
but I prayed about it, and I was reminded in
prayer that it's like, if you believe what you say
you believed, then that means you have authority over these things.
You know they are they are under your foot. And
(14:00):
if you're going to be a light, then you have
to go into dark places. And so I really love
that represented in the movie. And so I think that's
probably why we prayed a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I mean, I knew that's the reason why you were
You were right for it. Because you were a believer,
you really believed. And there's a scene in the film
for those that have seen the film when she's fighting
the devil where she just breaks out in tongue and
the ad my white a d was like, Okay, so
this isn't scripted, let's do we cut? Do we do whatever?
You know, and she's speaking in tongue and I'm like,
(14:29):
this is God working. We're gonna let it be gonna
until she's tired.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Oh you really went into speaking in tongue like that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh wow, Okay, that was That was her and so
and so That's when I knew she was right for
the role. I mean, I knew that there was only
one person that could play this role, and an actor
that really believed, that believed. Is it true?
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Y'all had a preacher on set every day every day?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Are you kidding me? We were terrified. I mean, like,
my mother didn't want me to do this movie. In
the beginning after Precious, I was offered this film and
I didn't want to do it because you know, I
felt like I was revisiting it already with a woman
that was abusing her kids. But more importantly, I know
how I work and I demand the truth. I work
from a place of like I'm an open portal. I'm
(15:11):
an open portal and and and I know what comes
to me and when I give out, and I said,
this is gonna this is gonna land in my spirit.
And so and that's why I sat on it for
such a long time, y'all. I didn't want to do
the movie after Precious and I just realized that it's
not about the darkness. It's really about finding your light
and about finding a higher power.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
And yeah, what do you because you you're with this
material longer than anybody, from beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
My sister, I haven't talked about this yet, but my
sister is in the scene. Who's done all my movies
with me, every one of my movies. She's in my movies. Uh,
my sister was in the chemo scene with Glenn, and
the following day she was diagnosed with you know this
lung cancer.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
No, it was it was dark.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You got popped in your face, remember that. Yeah, it
was the fire she's putting out, a fire of demons.
And then that's the thing that happened. My dog died.
It was everything that Yeah, Jesus, Yeah, it was it
was everything that you think. And that's with praying practically
before every scene. Now, Netflix was like when they when
(16:24):
we first busted out in prayer, Netflix was like, I'm sorry,
but we're gonna have to call HR because.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
We can't pray.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Well, you know, I go, Okay, So I got to
make an announcement to three hundred people those that don't
want to pray steps, but please, you gotta let us press.
We got to ask permission to pray. Now. Break.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
It's different where we come from because we're rooted in
that right. But so a question for you with your
crazy with Leah, how is she right now?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
How is she doing that?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Not Leah my sister, you know, my sister Lea who
does Wow, she's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:04):
I'm from Delaware, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm from Delaware though,
So y'all are like, we know you guys, like you
guys went to Hollywood, you did all this stuff, so
familiar with the family.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
My sister Girly who I created Empire, got you to
my sister Girley who I created Empire after Cookie. The
character of Cookie, she was a drug dealer and so
that turned her life around and everything, and she was
I'm really proud of her. She she turned her life
around and she works for me in locations she does.
(17:36):
She was just diagnosed during working for the films. It
was devastating.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Would you dive into another movie like this because it
seems so dark? Again, I don't do scary movies, but
it just seems so dark, and it's like it's hard
to get out of. I started watching. I don't do
scary movies. So when it starts getting a little crazy,
I know, I start hearing noises and.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's a little scary. I think that, I think that.
I don't think that I will do it again because
it takes all Like you said, it's like all consuming.
They're gone, I'm in that edit room. I'm still hearing
noises and so and and and then also it's difficult
to it's a different type of a film for me
to do. You know, it's a different, whole different experience
because dramas like this boom boom boom, boom boom boom,
(18:23):
and I got that down. This experience is like it's
like a slow dance, you know, you got It's like
it's a whole different sort of thing that you're doing.
And I don't. I just did it as an artist
that just sort of grow.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I love it, though.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I think you ended up really creating almost a subgenre
of horror. Like we've been talking about this a lot,
and that's why I say it's it's not a typical
horror movie.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
It's very I.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Don't know what it is.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
It's like a soulful, dark thriller.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
Like it's like it sits with you, like I want
to watch it with my mom and my grandmom because
we got some stuff we need to talk about.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But at the same time, you might jump a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
And one of my questions for you, after seeing seeing
parts of it I didn't watch the full thing, was
when you because we're precious the mom, the daughter had
the issue. Now you see this here again from your life,
Where does that come from? Or is that just something
you think is something that needs to be addressed, or
is that something personal to you?
Speaker 5 (19:16):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, it's all. Everything that you see is a part
of my life. Everything is part of my life. It's
personal and and what I do is I live my
demons out through through all of my works. So everything
you see on screen is a part of what it
is My life experience the Glenn Close character. Her character
was written she was black, so I tried to separate
(19:40):
it because I really wanted to separate myself from LaToya Amens.
So I made this character white because I have so
many mixed race friends. What is it like to be
a black girl with a white mom? What is it?
We all we all know that black we all know
that white girl, white woman that only days black men,
that has black children. We've never seen her on screen before.
(20:01):
Glenn Close plays that chick with the baby hair and
the jewelry and cut off shorts and this you know,
to me, that was And I'm so proud that she
was able to delve into that because that's a character
that we've never Black people know her. I don't think
white people. I don't think white critics will understand the film.
White critics will never understand oh completely. What is Glenn
(20:23):
What is this? She's a g for attempting to play
this role.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
The beef between well two questions.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
What was the beef between Monique's character and the grandma
And did that relationship in the movie reflect what you
and Monique was going through at the time.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
The beef between the grandmam that was real. They caught
that right. It was just that, you know, you know,
the grandmom knew that Monique was not right, and Monique
didn't like the grandmom didn't care that the grand mom knew,
so that it was that type of energy. And No,
(20:58):
that had nothing to do with me what me and
Nique was going through at all. Going back to work
with Monique was was like being on a bike and
and it was great, man, it was just great. She
she's phenomenal. And what I loved about this right here
in this race here is that imprecious. She was the
abuser in this she's the social worker in Gucci and jewelry,
(21:23):
looking beautiful going after the abuser.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
The conversation that you and Monique had. We saw the
picture you posted when y'all were out to dinner. Y'all
were reflecting. You said, just now it was like riding
a bike, like it's just something you naturally get to
do after a while.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Did I post that to you posted.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
That riding bike.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
No, The picture and I just you're riding the bike
made me think about it because you said, y'all were
reflecting all your friendship, Like, what's the what's the moments
that you guys reflect on during this that helped her,
not even help her, because Monique is amazing on screen,
but kind of like helped the working relationship in real life.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Like what are y'all reflecting on?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Remember, Precious?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Like? What is that conversation? Like at that dinner, At.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That dinner we had already it was just having fun.
We were just eating and having.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Fun, already squashed your beef and problems, worked on the film,
and at that dinner, it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Was just like, can you believe this is over with?
This movie is over with? You know, here's the thing, Monique,
we not only did I want to make sure that
she was good, but I wanted to make sure that
we worked again and that she was paid well for
what it was. It was really important to me that
she felt it.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But now you hear more and more artists talking about,
you know, they're finally getting their value, they're finally getting
their work.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Because she deserves not just Monique, I mean a lot
of black actresses and actors of coming up here recently,
but like we're finally getting out.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Saying it's because of Tyler Perry parents.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I think that I come from a generation and the
last generation of just we were just so happy to
get in the door. I don't think you understand, like
they weren't doing black cinema. I was just lucky to
get I was blessed to be able to tell stories
like Monsters Ball, Are you kidding me? Like? Are you
kidding me? Like? They laughed me out of every studio
(23:21):
in Hollywood when I came to them with masters. But
who wants to see a fat kid at the end
died by what? No? With a mixed race what like?
They didn't want to see that kind of stuff. So
I had to go get drug money to develop this story.
Y'all know my history. Y'all saw it up there with
Damon Dash. I had to go into the streets to
get my art done, and I didn't care about it
at all because the art was going to live and
(23:43):
I would do anything. I would fall on the store
from my art. Hollywood wasn't fucking with me at all.
No studio. Every single solitary movie I've ever done has
been independently financed. The first time I stepped into a
anything was was with Empire Answer to the Suits studio.
I was like, what I got to answer to people. Okay,
(24:04):
that was you know, that was the first time.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Why do you think the street dude understood you more
than Hollywood at that time or was it one of
those things they.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Were like, here's a thing, right, I can't really scream
homophobia with black men all the way because you know again,
you know that was where my support came from financially,
because they see you for what you are, which is
a creative genius, creative genius you know, who can help
(24:30):
them do greater things with their money. Like you know
what I mean, what does sexuality.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Have to do with it?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Question?
Speaker 7 (24:38):
Another question for you and for both of y'all. When
the Demon reveals.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
They made a movie about demon.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
You can't wait to this crush run over?
Speaker 7 (24:51):
When the Demon reveals himself to Ebony in the car
and then she gets out she runs off. Is that
symbol symbolizing like how you know there's things going on
and then you kind of ignore, like you can't ignore it?
Or like was it not even that deep? And like
why it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Even that It was like it was a slow It
was a slow It was like an onion onion up opening,
like this is coming, It's coming. It's coming and again,
you know, I don't. Again. I don't look at it
as a as a horror.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
You are so annoying because you said it's all right,
back to the one, back to girlfa table broke.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Uh the it is? You know it's again? You know
I don't again. It's a faith based thriller. And I
think that the minute we start looking at her, it's
not hard because if you come in with Netflix even
wondered that they wanted to jump scare every two seconds.
I said, that's not me. I don't know how to
do it. I'm I am, and I want to examine
the human condition. So it's a slow sort of burn
(26:04):
into hell. Yeah, you think you're watching precious and I
yanked the rug from under you, and you're really watching
a thriller. Why do you think it's so hard for
Ebony to do? Right? A white woman called you. Can
you imagine your white mother calling you Ebony?
Speaker 4 (26:21):
No, we remember we talked about that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
We were actually going to put that as a line
in the movie too, because it was just like what
kind of white woman named her child Ebony? Like she
was just so excited to have black kids. But I
think I mean, listen. You know, it's a really interesting question.
Why is it hard for Ebony to do right? Why
is it hard for any of us to do right?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
You know what I mean? Like, don't we all struggle
with it to some degree?
Speaker 5 (26:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You know? So I think that, like I said, you know,
I don't know that, and I don't know that she
always thinks that she is doing you know what I'm saying.
So this is when you actually, when you just spoke
about that scene where the demon kind of finally manifest
in the car and she's running and she's paranoid. I
think she's again we're dealing with a movie where and
(26:59):
this is often a thing in culture, right black women.
You know, we were talking about believing black women. Black
women are believed, But I thought about it the other
day and I was like, honestly, they're rarely even listened to,
you know what I'm saying. So I think I hate
when people are like, oh, black women allowed, and da
da da. But also we have had to work to
take our space and to make our voice heard and
to actually get people to listen to not just our
(27:21):
struggles but our triumphs and our support. You know, Like
I always remind people, there would be no I have
a dream speech if it was not black women who
actually organize and put that event together. So I think
we see a similar thing in Ebony is that she's
not I think it's hard, she's not being believed, and
it's a lot of pressure. You know, it's not you
can't it's a lot of weight to hold, and sometimes
(27:41):
you're gonna stumble, you know what I mean, and you
need help. And I think in that scene in particular,
you know, for me, it was just like she is
not even sure of what she's seeing. So forget society
or the social worker DCS, her mother, you know, forget
all of those people believing her. She's now kind of
questioning herself. Am I actually losing my mind? Am I
going crazy?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
That's what you feel that so much all the time?
Am I crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I exactly?
And am I to fright the power?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Today? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
I'm trying. I was like, oh, okay, I felt that.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Am I You're constantly questioning yourself, even if you don't
have to do with demons. It's just like, am I
going crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I insecure?
Am I losing my mind. So I think that she's
a human, you know what I mean, She is definitely
a human.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You know. We never talked about that.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, but you you wrote it in there. There's a
lot of things.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
He was just telling me the person. I didn't do
much directing in that scene because you just sudden knew it.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And now I'm not gonna let him do this. He
always give his credit away. Yes you did.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
You are always doing amazing directing and a lot of directing,
and it is amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But you just did it. I remember that there's a
scene where she's outside. She's like this, you know what
I mean, why why she should be doing that? But
I haven't directed her to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
But that's the question.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
The constant like am I actually crazy? You know what
I'm saying. So, and I think that's why. You know,
it's like anxiety, and I think that's what leads to
like addiction. Right, we see her struggling with alcoholism. So,
but she's trying. I don't think she's always not doing right.
I think she genuinely thinks she is doing right and
then and she's just she's a human, you know what
I mean, She's really trying.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The thing the scene that we was just describing, you know,
you questioning yourself. That is something that black people constantly do, right,
because there's all of these things that we know are
on top of us. We know that we're being oppressed, right,
but then there's other society will be like, you're bugging sexism, homophobia,
please right?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Exactly, it's always chopped up to conspiracy or you know
what I'm saying, And it's we're supposed to act like.
And honestly, sometimes I just wonder, in order to survive
and not lose your mind, you kind of almost have
to sort of be on autopilot for a little bit,
you know, because you're right, we do know the food
is killing us, right, we do know politics are probably
not really actually working for us, but we're required to
show up and vote otherwise we're not doing our civic
(29:57):
duty or not, you know, and of course those things matter,
but there's a there's an era of that where we're
supposed to act like we don't know that other things
are happening above us. I'll say above us, but I
don't like saying that. Maybe just in the realm where
we at, you know, so, and I think so we
see that exemplified in the movie.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
She kind of it's like you feel fractured.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So I think she captured the depression right, and the
and the addiction right, you know, as a as a
recovering addict or as an addict. She captured the truth
of what it's like to wake up every day and
to fight depression and to get up out of bed
and not want to do drugs or to drink. She
(30:39):
captured that wholeheartedly with accuracy, I think, even better than
you did in Billy Holliday.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
It was actually, first of all, when you said that
on set, I was ready to cry, but it was
harder and it was funny because I was questioning myself.
People were like, Billy Holliday will be the hardest role
you ever play. So okay, I was like, Nigga, does.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
A lot wear me out right now? And I kind
of was like, am I crazy? Or have I just
lost it? Am I am? I? Maybe? Yeah, She's just.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
She required me to deal with like you said when
you watched it, the same way. Playing her, she required
me to deal with things in my personal life, to
talk to myself about things and I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
And for my faith to grow and to change.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I don't think I could have played her if I
did not almost have my own therapy, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Surrounding it?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
What do you want people to get out of this movie?
What do you at the end it is, what do
you want them to get out of it?
Speaker 5 (31:32):
Really?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
That you have to find because tomorrow isn't promised. You
have to find there's no This is not a joke.
Especially you have to sitting down with Biden, this sleepy ass,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
So why y'all got mad when I told them to
step down? He just goes back to what I'm saying.
I'm gon t Let me tell you anotherhing about this movie.
Let me tell you another thing about this movie. This
movie shows you that I mean, I do like to
this movie that if you don't deal, if you don't
acknowledge your demons, you have to acknowledge them. Once they
(32:05):
reveal themselves, you have to acknowledge them. And that's how
you deal with them when they say, you can't heal
what you don't reveal. So when these things reveal themselves
to you, you have to deal with them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
So that goes back what I'm gonna talking about depression
And something that really hit home was when you were
bold enough to like sit there and say that we
get depressed, that this is this is real and uh.
And that's when I had a new found respect for
what you do because it's like nobody that's that's something
(32:35):
that's me, like coming out of the closet, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That people don't Yeah, we don't talk about me. We
don't talk We can't talk about it. Yeah, yeactly for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Even though we all deal with it for generations. Like
my dad.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
My dad was going to therapy two and three times
a week, he was on ten to twelve different medications,
and he tried to kill himself back in the day.
I didn't find none of this out until twenty eighteen
after I started talking about my own issues.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So imagine if he would have opened up to me when.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
I was a child, when I was hiding in the
woods because I was having bad panic attacks.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Because it and how was he received in the community
like with that right, because at your father at the
time going to therapy, that's crazy. I mean, talking to
like my elders and parents about therapy right now was
kind of like, oh, well, you know, we don't really
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
That you're from a small town, so everybody had to know.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I wonder if you didn't talked to people about it.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Well, you know when I asked my mom, I said, Mom,
you know that was going through all that. My mom
exact words was, I thought he was playing crazy to
get a check.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Because I love my father.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
I love him so much.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I was talking to him about therapy the other Danny
he told me. I was like, Dad, you can't hold
on to everything right because things faster, they sit, they
did it.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
He was like yeah, he was like yeah. I was like, so,
you know, I want.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
You to just think about therapy and don't think about
it in terms of it's not that you're crazy.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
It's just you check in with your health.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You get your heart looked at, you get so why
would you not get your mind looked at it? It
has direct impact on your heart, on your body. He said, yeah, yeah,
well you know Nigga my dad's sophie from Detroit. He
really liked a nigga from Detroit. He was like, yeah,
you know, I've actually learned. He's like, I actually kind
of do my own therapy.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I've learned.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I take it, and I put it in this box,
and then I like, you know, I basically a compartmentalize place.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
So I tuck it away real deep.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I was like, right, I said, but all them little
prisoners are going to build up at a certain point.
So he told me, he was like, I just tuck
it away, and I was like, Dad, that's suppression. I
was like, that's the opposite of what we're talking about.
I was like, you got to talk about these things.
So it's just different the mentality.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
And another conversation. I hope this movie opens up to
this point. We're talking about some people definitely need therapy. Well,
some niggas need to exorcism. So how many niggas do
you know but actually need an exorcism?
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I think so, I think so listen, we're working in
the team.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'm sure. But I think also that because I was
thinking about this as as I was watching, a lot
of church people will say there's too much cursing in this,
there's too much like there's too much violence in this.
How can this be a faith based anything? Because there
and then you get into the politics of the church.
You know, you can get to the politics at the
(35:10):
church and just sort of deal with that bullshit, or
you can deal with spirituality and know that Jesus walked
with bookers drunks.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I've already gotten I literally got somebody hit me
the other day and was like, hey, you know, I
mean they asked politely, you know what I'm saying, but
it was like, hey, I don't understand how.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
You're a believer and would do a movie about demons.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
And I was just like, I remember, I think when
I get asked those questions, it's like, Okay, take a second,
take a beat. You could get offended, right, you know,
or you could just be like, there's not understanding here.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There's a lack of understanding. Maybe it's not on my part,
you know what I'm.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Saying, But I think that I it's always interesting to
me as a believer. I'm like, I read scripture, you
know what I mean. I do devotion. Everybody scripture. I
was like, niggas demons in a Bible, Like, I don't
know what to tell you. There's crazy things like the
whole premise is not that this life is clean and
perfect and not scary and not what's that it's all
of those things. We just have somewhere to put it,
and as he said, if it's a different faith, you
(36:05):
got somewhere to put it, you know. Like, so that's
really and and something a why. We have a why
for how to navigate this craziness, you know what I'm saying.
So the idea that we're not supposed touch those things,
to me is very, very weird and not realistic.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
You know.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Sometimes we use the demon thing to avoid the actual
issue though, right like when the grandma goes to the
past thing and tells us she thinks the house has
evil energy. It ain't just demon, just everything else you
talked about. It's the trauma, is the alcohol abuse, it's
the addiction. But it's like we'll talk about something supernatural
to avoid making better choices.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Right and unresolved issues with her daughter, because I think,
if I'm clear, I don't remember you and I talked
about this. But if I'm clear, you know, Alberta may
have changed. She received the Lord, you know what I mean.
She has transformed her life. And and that's why when
Ebane says to her, like you might have your little
church friends full, but I don't think we ever hear
a moment in there where Alberta goes to ebony and says, hey,
I'm really sorry for everything I did to you and
(36:59):
allowed happened to you. It's more like I don't want
to talk about that. I've transformed.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Now.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Let me just be good to the grandkids and good
to everyone else around me.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And that's the way it works.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, it's really but it's hard because sometimes you need,
like you said, you just averting the issue. Sometime you
actually need to look somebody in the face and with
humility say I acknowledge what happened to you, what I
did to you, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know what I'm saying, Which was part of my
journey with Monique.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Yeah, got you, Yes, you know, and you did.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
It first, right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah. I called her out of the blue, you know,
I wondered her and I was working on this y'all
see that that other horror movie that she did. Yes,
So this young this young filmmaker. I help a lot
of young filmmakers. Okay, So this young filmmaker called me
f out of the blue and said, listen, I'm working
on this movie and I need your help. So I said, okay,
(37:49):
So I saw the potential in the movie. It was incredible.
This kid was just incredible. And I worked with the
movie for free for six months because it was Monique.
She didn't know it. Six months. I helped him edit
the film because it was a little independent film and
and I was like, this bitch is fucking good. She's
fucking real good. That was part of me realizing I
(38:12):
had to she had to work. She just had to
continue to People are missing out on her work as
an artist. And uh so finally I said, listen, you
don't notice, but I've been working on this movie. I've
been working on this movie for like four or five months,
six months.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
She said, you sneaky bitch.
Speaker 7 (38:29):
I know, come here cuts him out.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And so that that was the beginning of art of
my healing through this kid that I was helping with
his film.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, and how did you how? I wanted to know
you know, I know you and Dame squashed your beef
as well.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
How did you?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
How did that happen? How did that healing happen?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
That happened because I was told by my all white
team at the time time that I didn't know him
any money, and I knew in my heart that if
I owed the drug. Even though the movie didn't make money,
the movie did not make money. So in theory, on paper,
I didn't know him any money, but I knew in
(39:15):
my heart that I told him I was gonna pay
him his money. So it was a it was a
it was a man to mand thing. But I'm listening
now to Hollywood because I'm in I've done an empire,
and I was like, Okay, this is the way to
white people with this. This is way he's supposed to work. No,
it don't work like that. And so even though we
took a the movie took a hit, shadow Boxer took
(39:36):
a hit, I was you know I did. I did
the right thing with him.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Too, And how was that combination?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Did take a public humiliation for me to understand that
I did the right thing. Otherwise I would have been
just scurtainy, and I don't think so MA would have
come to I would have had that come to Jesus,
But he put it Jesus a little earlier.
Speaker 6 (39:58):
I know you got to go in a few but
I want to ask you Lee about you know, because
you you've birthed a lot of people out here, right,
Jesse Smilett. What's that relationship like now? Because I remember
a few years ago they said, y'all were no longer
on speaking terms.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
We text.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
We text each other. Uh, we text each other. Here's
a movie that's coming that's out. I think that's coming out.
I haven't seen it yet. Uh. Look, it's it's so complicated, guys,
it's so complicated. Life is so complicated because of the incident,
because of the hoax, because it's themself. It's complicated. But
(40:32):
that whole situation was complicated. And I still don't know
what to believe. Honestly, I don't know what to believe
when people say he didn't do it. He did do it.
God bless him on his journey.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
And is there room for him to come back? Is
what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
And because because somebody like you, it takes other black
people to keep that grace in that door open for people,
other blacks that make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I work with him again, yeah, or I don't work
with him again.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
Would you cast him in something?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
H Yeah? I would cast him in something again. Got you?
It's a sun to me. You know, he was like
and he also represented me, and he also represented the
movement that we that I tried to to start, which
I didn't even know I was starting and I was
(41:18):
so busy worried about Cookie's hat and the music that
we were playing. This was before Insecure, This is before
Black Panther, this we started that it was, it was
before all of it. The fact we didn't didn't even
know what it was. But I was so worried about
the the I was so worried about, like getting everything right.
It's the phone right here, you know, on the set
that I didn't know what was happening in the zeitgeist.
(41:42):
So yeah, it's complicated.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
Empire definitely ushered in the new Black renaissance in cinema.
But yeah, the only reason I asked that is because
we see white actors make mistakes and get chance after
chance after chance. It's like with our our people, they
just get thrown away, just started black ball, never work again.
But it takes people like you to make sure that
they keep working.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
H Yeah, well, we appreciate you, and the film Deliverance
is out on August thirtieth on Netflix, and thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
You guys are invited.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Don't wait so long, I mean seven years probably.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I don't right now. Today today's it's in theaters in theaters,
It's on Netflix, August thirty.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Well, thank you guys for joining us. Andrew, I know
you'll be here again because you're working.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
I'll see'll for Exhibiting Forgiveness. It was the next movie
that comes out in October. Yeah, what was it called
Exhibiting Exhibiting Forgiveness. Yeah, it's actually the painter. Have you
heard of Titus Kafard. Are you familiar with his work?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
If you?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
If you yeah, if you're yes, If you've not seen
his work, you should, Definitely. He's a painter, is actually
what he is. He's working in the Mad Everything. He's
from Detroit, actually, but he very similar. He tells truthful stories.
But he he has never done a movie before. He
just needed apparently painting was just not sufficing. He needed
a medium to be able to reconcile his relationship with
(43:08):
his father, who was definitely a victim of sort of
the crack epidemic, and so reconciling that relationship and and
learning how to forgive, and so he just started writing
his story down and he wrote a script. So this
is his debut, uh directorial debut, in its first time
writing a script. It's called Exhibiting Forgiveness. It stars Andre Holland,
Andre new ellis John Jokes and myself, and and he
(43:31):
just he really beautifully talks about that. Forgiveness is an
amazing concept. Obviously, we've seen it today, We've talked about
it so much today, but I think we forget how
hard fought forgiveness can really be. You know, it always
feels like you're letting someone get away with someone, or
you may get away with something, You're making yourself more
vulnerable to more pain. But so it really dives into
the idea that it strengthens you. But it is a
(43:53):
hard fought battle. So that's that's October.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
When it comes out Your life is hilarious.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
You thought he was going to.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
This man man and co. It was just like, okay,
acting it is. I was like, okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
She's one of the most phenomenal actors I've ever worked with,
and I worked with all of them.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Truly, You're not gonna make me crying here, no, I really,
I really do love him. Between him and Missasha Smith,
who's also in this, I love her.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
She She's just one conversation director.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
She's director director, an incredible, incredible acting coach, and a
phenomenal actor.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
She also should be a motivational speaker.
Speaker 7 (44:40):
She she she gets you together in a voicemade she
could when she tells you.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So, this is what cracks me up. This is how
she would have got Biden together. She just looked at
and be like, coach excessive. And she stopped and she
look at me and she was like, I'm like, so,
I finished doing a little work and I'm looking at
her for a respond.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
She look at me, She's like, sys, it's terrible.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Might be top three realist niggas.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
My favorite, but both of them are the same.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
That's why I was like, I know, if I'm in
the coaching session, I'm not getting no bullshit. If I'm
on set, I'm not getting no bullshit. When they say cut,
I'm like, we got it. Like that's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
We appreciate you for joining us again. Thank you, sir,
Andrew Day Lee Daniels.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 5 (45:31):
Breakfast Club.
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The Breakfast Club Morning, everybody in stee j n V,
Jess hilarious, Charlamagne the guy.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We are the Breakfast Club. Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Jess is on maternity leave, so Laura Lossa is holding
it down with us, and we got some special guests
in the building. New film Deliverance is on Netflix August thirtieth.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have Lee Daniels and Andre Day.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome Andre, Lee, Andrew.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
You working, and and I said, and Day, Andrew you
And I know.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Some people do say you literally character character, you always
get it right. You were seriously just asking her?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
He has never said I'm always in her character when
she's working, but I am always even Billy Red.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How are y'all feeling? First and foremost, how y'all feeling good?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I feel like good?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah? Really, yeah, I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I'm always good.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
When did y'all develop this chemistry?
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Because it's clearly can't be just something that's you know, done,
when y'all are working like you must have liked we're
each other.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
We're together.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I told her, I was like, you stuck for like right.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I didn't want her for I didn't want to beat
her for Billy because she hadn't acted before. Yeah, I
really didn't, you know. And then she didn't want to
do Billy.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I hadn't acted before.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And then I met her, Yeah, talking to the mic,
I met her, and then I fell in love with her,
and then we just sort of like we it became
kismet and then you see what that chemistry is like
you always see what the chemistry is, like what it
is on screen, and what she was was what Billy
was was the lovely hair for each other.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, same, it was. We had.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I didn't want to do it either because I was
just you know, scared to act and because I had
never done it before and I do respect the craft.
But I was like, well, let me just meet with him,
because you know, at the end of the day, it's
a great person to meet, Like he's a legend, and
maybe he wants music for the movie something like that,
you know, And we did. We literally just fell in love.
And also that day fell and I love Billie Holliday,
like that's where the day and my name comes from.
(02:04):
And so I saw in him. He was a huge
fan of Lady Sings of Blues, but he had discovered
newly her story how she was fighting against racial terror
in America, singing strange fruit like to the detriment of
her you know, her life was in danger, and so
he really wanted to tell that story vindicate her legacy.
And that was just like Wow, that's amazing. And then
(02:26):
you know, you don't often meet people who believe in you,
sometimes even more than you believe in yourself, and that
is That's how Lee has been in my life. So
at this point it went from like Hey, I don't
know how to just like I trust him and when
it comes to anything.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
So Lee, as a director, do you have like actors
and actresses that are like amused for you, like sort
of like when the painter finds a favorite color of
favorite hue, they use it in all their art.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, any Yes, Monique is one of them. Nicole Kitman
is one of them. Glenn Close now is one of them,
Andrew is certainly one of them. Uh, They're a group
of people that Taraji p Henson, there's a group of
actors that you just know that. No, I'm a nigga
that know that. I you know, I don't I'm not
(03:12):
politically correct when I'm talking and you know, I come
from a specific generation that you know and and and
that they that they protect me from myself, and I
don't know how to Sometimes I don't know the rules
of today.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
I don't want you to. I want you to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And sometimes because there's things that that he could have
said twenty years ago that would be fine that he
can't say now, they would try to quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Sixty five you know how to.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
Know how people did? I love watching you in interviews.
You don't do a lot of them, though, Is that why?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Because because I know that you know this, this this
new cancel coach something, I'm like, like, my right before
I pushed sin, I got social media. I have to
hire what. I gotta hire a social media person out
to tell you not to push. I literally have to
hire a social media person because I'll say the wrong word. It. Yeah,
(04:13):
it's really crazy. That's not how it started.
Speaker 8 (04:15):
And for you, let me tell y'all.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
He turned the whole phone off. He said, just.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Now, how was Monique doing?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You mentioned Monique? How was she doing?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
She's great? You know what? And that made me take
a look at this that interview that you know when
she was up here called them Leonard.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It was fantastic getting back together with her. It was
part of the reason that we did the film. For
me was I think we're in some dark time. I'm
always a step ahead of it. I think I'm a
little psychic because I'm a little ahead of everything that's happened.
And I remember when I did Empire, it was really
too uh because I was experiencing so much homophobia from
(05:07):
the from from from my own people. It was hard
enough to get movies made as a black man when
I came into Hollywood because it was sort of pre
Spike Lee and posted black exploiterra era, exploitation era, and
but the homophobia was really real, and I dealt with
it with my own people. So anyway I did, I
(05:31):
did Empire, and that, you know, i'd even know what
I was doing. I was expressing my feelings, you know.
And the same thing with with this right here, this,
I feel we're in dark times. I know that we're
in dark times, and for me, it was about finding
my higher power, you know. And after I did the movie,
(05:51):
there was a group of us that were summoned to Uh,
to Biden's We were trying to figure out how to
get him into office as black men voting for him.
And so it was Chris Rock and Sam Jackson.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
Wasting your time t he was table you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, no, no, this is before we understand that.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Meeting that he needed to step years ago, you need
to step me.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
What what made you think that? Because I was because
he's been saying for a long time and people were
saying that we were were not representing and this, that
and the other. But we've seen it and felt.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
A year ago I was saying he should step down, and.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
He was giving me hell for I was really I
was giving you that.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Did you walked in that meeting and he was like, what, No,
this is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The president of the United States. Whoa But he was
he would come back with very much like alertness. He
was like he would be like this and say is
he there? And then you come up and go, I've
done more for black people than any president in the
United States of America, including Obama. And he started listing
off the facts and listing off the facts and like
(06:59):
I think we the teeth was like, well, you should
tell people this. You should be out in the streets
telling people this because black men need to understand this,
and and he said, I'm too busy trying to stop
nuclear war.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Now, see, I'm glad you said continue I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
He said, I'm too busy trying to stop nuclear war
to go out and promote myself and what I'm doing,
because I'm doing the work. And then I realized that
in that moment how serious he was, because he got it,
got real somber in there. And I said, this is
the reason why I'm doing my movie, because it like
this boom right now going by, we better be able
(07:34):
to find it. I don't care whether it's Allah for me,
it's Jesus is Buddha. We need to find our higher power.
And that was the purpose of me trying to do
this film.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Right now, I said, what I was saying about, I'll
talk about earlier this week. There's so much casual conversation
about nuclear war, and like everybody's so focused and distracted
about the nonsense, like Donald Trump and you almost had
a call the other day and Donald Trump literally said
on the call, we should be worried about nuclear warming
because North Korea is crazy, China's crazy, Russ crazy. All
the take is one maniac to push a button, and
(08:04):
we focused on all the nonsense that he said instead
of like, no, listen to what he said just now
and to hear that Biden said that to you, that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, it was terrible, and so because we could be
going tomorrow, and so for me, it was really about
and that was part of Monique too. You know, part
of the healing of it all is like, you know,
who cares whether I don't care what I did, I mean,
whatever it was that I upset you about, I upset you.
I'm sixty five years old. I don't want to. I
want to make sure that I'm good. You know that
this is as much I can spread as much love
(08:34):
and do as much healing as I can. And that
was part of the whole journey of this of this film.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's about break down. What it's about for people that
don't know you're good at it really good.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's uh, you know, okay, So you know where do
I start with this? It's it's really well, first of all,
it's a story about this single mother, single black mother,
and she's really she's dealing with a At the crux
of it, there's spirit, like he said, trying to scare
you to your higher power. But there's also a lot
(09:06):
of generational trauma. So it's this idea that she's trying
to be the best mother that she can be. She's
trying to pour into her kids with all the tools
that she's been given, which is not much, but she
has been given a lot of pain. And so her
mother has now moved into the house with her, so
she's kind of faced with that trauma daily. But her
mother is also a product of trauma. So it's definitely talking.
It's physically she is fighting demons, right. The kids are
(09:28):
actually possessed, and so you have that element, that horror
element in there, but she's also battling her own personal demons.
And I love the metaphor that the demons that we
don't deal within ourselves, they will absolutely possess our kids
in future generations and robos of our futures. It's really,
you know, one of the things I say, and we've
talked about the genre a lot, because that's the cause.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Is it thriller? Is it horror?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I think that for people to think that this is
solely a horror movie, they would be remiss to walk
away from it based on just that there's it's a
faith based thriller, it's a family drama, it is a
horror movie. So there's a lot of elements, but it's
based on a true story. Ultimately, it's based on the
Haunting of a house in Gary, Indiana, the Amazon LaToya
(10:15):
and LaToya amens, but loosely based off of that. Lee
really did a great job of just creating new characters
in their own life. So I think there's a lot
of lessons in it. There's a lot of healing in it.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
There was a friend of mine actually who went to
one of the screenings, and I actually saw her in
church that following weekend and I had asked her if
she goes here? She said no, I watched the movie
and then I showed up here on Sunday. And so
I think there's a lot of healing and transformation, as
he said, regardless of what your faith is. But you know,
she's she's a budding alcoholic. You know, she's dealing with addictions.
She's trying to cope in a bunch of ways. She's
(10:48):
trying to be better than the generation that came before her,
which is what we're all trying.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And so Basically it's about yeah, I think that, and
then we think that she's abusing her kids. Mm hm,
and uh so social services comes, the cops come, the
principal come, take the kids away, and there's it. And
then they see a little kid walking up upside down
(11:13):
behind the wall, so they realize that. But they still
got to take the kids because the kids are being
abused in the house. And so it's, uh, she's fighting
social services because they will not believe that she's not
beating her kids and the demon in the house. It's
about black women not being believed, and it's also about
(11:37):
it's also it's also about finding she has to she
has to find her higher power to fight that demon
that's in the house.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
And I like y'all talking about horror, right, because it's
not just the demons that are the horror, Like you said,
it's the generation of abuse. It's the alcoholism, it's the poverty,
it's the addictions.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Those are all horror. Precious was a horror movie, to.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Absolutely I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Some people say it was a comedy.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
No.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
I think to his point, if you were a daughter
and you grew up in a household with a mom
who is dealing with her own things and doesn't know
how to mother you through that. You watch something like
President it make you be like, oh, shoot, I remember
that feeling like it does give that. I felt like
that watching this definitely okay.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
So how do you not get traumatized?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I you know, I don't know that I didn't get traumatized. No, No,
I mean I'm a praying person. I'm a person of faith,
so I think that, you know, even going into it,
you know, there has to be like intention, right, I
think this if this was just sort of exploiting you know,
black pain, if this was exploiting kind of the demonocral.
I believe in the spirit, realm, right, I'm a Christian,
(12:48):
I'm a believer. So even initially when he first brought
it to me, initially it was a yes, just because
at this point I had just really again fallen in
love with this person. I'm like, I trust him completely,
I'm excited about everything he's doing. But my only hesitation was, oh,
do I want to do something that.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Deals with that?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Obviously, if you've come from any type of church background,
it can be very very they're very strong opinions about
why would.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
You don't turn exactly?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So they you know, like you said, people feel like,
oh they can jump on you. They can do But
I think we also have this misconception that we're never
supposed to look into that world or talk about that world.
But for me, the scriptures that I read, I'm like,
it's all throughout it. And I think what I loved
about this, and what I loved about Lee's goal is
that he didn't want to just kind of, you know,
marinate in that area. He wanted to show a story
(13:38):
of overcoming and that's what she does. And so for me,
it was really it was praying going into it, like
I I what I will say is that I I
had a hesitation just because of the the subject matter,
but I prayed about it, and I was reminded in
prayer that it's like, if you believe what you say
you believed, then that means you have authority over these things.
You know they are they are under your foot. And
(14:00):
if you're going to be a light, then you have
to go into dark places. And so I really love
that represented in the movie. And so I think that's
probably why we prayed a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I mean, I knew that's the reason why you were
You were right for it. Because you were a believer,
you really believed. And there's a scene in the film
for those that have seen the film when she's fighting
the devil where she just breaks out in tongue and
the ad my white a d was like, Okay, so
this isn't scripted, let's do we cut? Do we do whatever?
You know, and she's speaking in tongue and I'm like,
(14:29):
this is God working. We're gonna let it be gonna
until she's tired.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Oh you really went into speaking in tongue like that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh wow, Okay, that was That was her and so
and so That's when I knew she was right for
the role. I mean, I knew that there was only
one person that could play this role, and an actor
that really believed, that believed. Is it true?
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Y'all had a preacher on set every day every day?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Are you kidding me? We were terrified. I mean, like,
my mother didn't want me to do this movie. In
the beginning after Precious, I was offered this film and
I didn't want to do it because you know, I
felt like I was revisiting it already with a woman
that was abusing her kids. But more importantly, I know
how I work and I demand the truth. I work
from a place of like I'm an open portal. I'm
(15:11):
an open portal and and and I know what comes
to me and when I give out, and I said,
this is gonna this is gonna land in my spirit.
And so and that's why I sat on it for
such a long time, y'all. I didn't want to do
the movie after Precious and I just realized that it's
not about the darkness. It's really about finding your light
and about finding a higher power.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
And yeah, what do you because you you're with this
material longer than anybody, from beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
My sister, I haven't talked about this yet, but my
sister is in the scene. Who's done all my movies
with me, every one of my movies. She's in my movies. Uh,
my sister was in the chemo scene with Glenn, and
the following day she was diagnosed with you know this
lung cancer.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
No, it was it was dark.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You got popped in your face, remember that. Yeah, it
was the fire she's putting out, a fire of demons.
And then that's the thing that happened. My dog died.
It was everything that Yeah, Jesus, Yeah, it was it
was everything that you think. And that's with praying practically
before every scene. Now, Netflix was like when they when
(16:24):
we first busted out in prayer, Netflix was like, I'm sorry,
but we're gonna have to call HR because.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
We can't pray.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Well, you know, I go, Okay, So I got to
make an announcement to three hundred people those that don't
want to pray steps, but please, you gotta let us press.
We got to ask permission to pray. Now. Break.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
It's different where we come from because we're rooted in
that right. But so a question for you with your
crazy with Leah, how is she right now?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
How is she doing that?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Not Leah my sister, you know, my sister Lea who
does Wow, she's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:04):
I'm from Delaware, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm from Delaware though,
So y'all are like, we know you guys, like you
guys went to Hollywood, you did all this stuff, so
familiar with the family.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
My sister Girly who I created Empire, got you to
my sister Girley who I created Empire after Cookie. The
character of Cookie, she was a drug dealer and so
that turned her life around and everything, and she was
I'm really proud of her. She she turned her life
around and she works for me in locations she does.
(17:36):
She was just diagnosed during working for the films. It
was devastating.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Would you dive into another movie like this because it
seems so dark? Again, I don't do scary movies, but
it just seems so dark, and it's like it's hard
to get out of. I started watching. I don't do
scary movies. So when it starts getting a little crazy,
I know, I start hearing noises and.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's a little scary. I think that, I think that.
I don't think that I will do it again because
it takes all Like you said, it's like all consuming.
They're gone, I'm in that edit room. I'm still hearing
noises and so and and and then also it's difficult
to it's a different type of a film for me
to do. You know, it's a different, whole different experience
because dramas like this boom boom boom, boom boom boom,
(18:23):
and I got that down. This experience is like it's
like a slow dance, you know, you got It's like
it's a whole different sort of thing that you're doing.
And I don't. I just did it as an artist
that just sort of grow.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I love it, though.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I think you ended up really creating almost a subgenre
of horror. Like we've been talking about this a lot,
and that's why I say it's it's not a typical
horror movie.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
It's very I.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Don't know what it is.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
It's like a soulful, dark thriller.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
Like it's like it sits with you, like I want
to watch it with my mom and my grandmom because
we got some stuff we need to talk about.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But at the same time, you might jump a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
And one of my questions for you, after seeing seeing
parts of it I didn't watch the full thing, was
when you because we're precious the mom, the daughter had
the issue. Now you see this here again from your life,
Where does that come from? Or is that just something
you think is something that needs to be addressed, or
is that something personal to you?
Speaker 5 (19:16):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, it's all. Everything that you see is a part
of my life. Everything is part of my life. It's
personal and and what I do is I live my
demons out through through all of my works. So everything
you see on screen is a part of what it
is My life experience the Glenn Close character. Her character
was written she was black, so I tried to separate
(19:40):
it because I really wanted to separate myself from LaToya Amens.
So I made this character white because I have so
many mixed race friends. What is it like to be
a black girl with a white mom? What is it?
We all we all know that black we all know
that white girl, white woman that only days black men,
that has black children. We've never seen her on screen before.
(20:01):
Glenn Close plays that chick with the baby hair and
the jewelry and cut off shorts and this you know,
to me, that was And I'm so proud that she
was able to delve into that because that's a character
that we've never Black people know her. I don't think
white people. I don't think white critics will understand the film.
White critics will never understand oh completely. What is Glenn
(20:23):
What is this? She's a g for attempting to play
this role.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
The beef between well two questions.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
What was the beef between Monique's character and the grandma
And did that relationship in the movie reflect what you
and Monique was going through at the time.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
The beef between the grandmam that was real. They caught
that right. It was just that, you know, you know,
the grandmom knew that Monique was not right, and Monique
didn't like the grandmom didn't care that the grand mom knew,
so that it was that type of energy. And No,
(20:58):
that had nothing to do with me what me and
Nique was going through at all. Going back to work
with Monique was was like being on a bike and
and it was great, man, it was just great. She
she's phenomenal. And what I loved about this right here
in this race here is that imprecious. She was the
abuser in this she's the social worker in Gucci and jewelry,
(21:23):
looking beautiful going after the abuser.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
The conversation that you and Monique had. We saw the
picture you posted when y'all were out to dinner. Y'all
were reflecting. You said, just now it was like riding
a bike, like it's just something you naturally get to
do after a while.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Did I post that to you posted.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
That riding bike.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
No, The picture and I just you're riding the bike
made me think about it because you said, y'all were
reflecting all your friendship, Like, what's the what's the moments
that you guys reflect on during this that helped her,
not even help her, because Monique is amazing on screen,
but kind of like helped the working relationship in real life.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Like what are y'all reflecting on?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Remember, Precious?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Like? What is that conversation? Like at that dinner, At.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That dinner we had already it was just having fun.
We were just eating and having.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Fun, already squashed your beef and problems, worked on the film,
and at that dinner, it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Was just like, can you believe this is over with?
This movie is over with? You know, here's the thing, Monique,
we not only did I want to make sure that
she was good, but I wanted to make sure that
we worked again and that she was paid well for
what it was. It was really important to me that
she felt it.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But now you hear more and more artists talking about,
you know, they're finally getting their value, they're finally getting
their work.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Because she deserves not just Monique, I mean a lot
of black actresses and actors of coming up here recently,
but like we're finally getting out.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Saying it's because of Tyler Perry parents.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I think that I come from a generation and the
last generation of just we were just so happy to
get in the door. I don't think you understand, like
they weren't doing black cinema. I was just lucky to
get I was blessed to be able to tell stories
like Monsters Ball, Are you kidding me? Like? Are you
kidding me? Like? They laughed me out of every studio
(23:21):
in Hollywood when I came to them with masters. But
who wants to see a fat kid at the end
died by what? No? With a mixed race what like?
They didn't want to see that kind of stuff. So
I had to go get drug money to develop this story.
Y'all know my history. Y'all saw it up there with
Damon Dash. I had to go into the streets to
get my art done, and I didn't care about it
at all because the art was going to live and
(23:43):
I would do anything. I would fall on the store
from my art. Hollywood wasn't fucking with me at all.
No studio. Every single solitary movie I've ever done has
been independently financed. The first time I stepped into a
anything was was with Empire Answer to the Suits studio.
I was like, what I got to answer to people. Okay,
(24:04):
that was you know, that was the first time.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Why do you think the street dude understood you more
than Hollywood at that time or was it one of
those things they.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Were like, here's a thing, right, I can't really scream
homophobia with black men all the way because you know again,
you know that was where my support came from financially,
because they see you for what you are, which is
a creative genius, creative genius you know, who can help
(24:30):
them do greater things with their money. Like you know
what I mean, what does sexuality.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Have to do with it?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Question?
Speaker 7 (24:38):
Another question for you and for both of y'all. When
the Demon reveals.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
They made a movie about demon.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
You can't wait to this crush run over?
Speaker 7 (24:51):
When the Demon reveals himself to Ebony in the car
and then she gets out she runs off. Is that
symbol symbolizing like how you know there's things going on
and then you kind of ignore, like you can't ignore it?
Or like was it not even that deep? And like
why it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Even that It was like it was a slow It
was a slow It was like an onion onion up opening,
like this is coming, It's coming. It's coming and again,
you know, I don't. Again. I don't look at it
as a as a horror.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
You are so annoying because you said it's all right,
back to the one, back to girlfa table broke.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Uh the it is? You know it's again? You know
I don't again. It's a faith based thriller. And I
think that the minute we start looking at her, it's
not hard because if you come in with Netflix even
wondered that they wanted to jump scare every two seconds.
I said, that's not me. I don't know how to
do it. I'm I am, and I want to examine
the human condition. So it's a slow sort of burn
(26:04):
into hell. Yeah, you think you're watching precious and I
yanked the rug from under you, and you're really watching
a thriller. Why do you think it's so hard for
Ebony to do? Right? A white woman called you. Can
you imagine your white mother calling you Ebony?
Speaker 4 (26:21):
No, we remember we talked about that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
We were actually going to put that as a line
in the movie too, because it was just like what
kind of white woman named her child Ebony? Like she
was just so excited to have black kids. But I
think I mean, listen. You know, it's a really interesting question.
Why is it hard for Ebony to do right? Why
is it hard for any of us to do right?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
You know what I mean? Like, don't we all struggle
with it to some degree?
Speaker 5 (26:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You know? So I think that, like I said, you know,
I don't know that, and I don't know that she
always thinks that she is doing you know what I'm saying.
So this is when you actually, when you just spoke
about that scene where the demon kind of finally manifest
in the car and she's running and she's paranoid. I
think she's again we're dealing with a movie where and
(26:59):
this is often a thing in culture, right black women.
You know, we were talking about believing black women. Black
women are believed, But I thought about it the other
day and I was like, honestly, they're rarely even listened to,
you know what I'm saying. So I think I hate
when people are like, oh, black women allowed, and da
da da. But also we have had to work to
take our space and to make our voice heard and
to actually get people to listen to not just our
(27:21):
struggles but our triumphs and our support. You know, Like
I always remind people, there would be no I have
a dream speech if it was not black women who
actually organize and put that event together. So I think
we see a similar thing in Ebony is that she's
not I think it's hard, she's not being believed, and
it's a lot of pressure. You know, it's not you
can't it's a lot of weight to hold, and sometimes
(27:41):
you're gonna stumble, you know what I mean, and you
need help. And I think in that scene in particular,
you know, for me, it was just like she is
not even sure of what she's seeing. So forget society
or the social worker DCS, her mother, you know, forget
all of those people believing her. She's now kind of
questioning herself. Am I actually losing my mind? Am I
going crazy?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
That's what you feel that so much all the time?
Am I crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I exactly?
And am I to fright the power?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Today? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
I'm trying. I was like, oh, okay, I felt that.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Am I You're constantly questioning yourself, even if you don't
have to do with demons. It's just like, am I
going crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I insecure?
Am I losing my mind. So I think that she's
a human, you know what I mean, She is definitely
a human.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You know. We never talked about that.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, but you you wrote it in there. There's a
lot of things.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
He was just telling me the person. I didn't do
much directing in that scene because you just sudden knew it.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And now I'm not gonna let him do this. He
always give his credit away. Yes you did.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
You are always doing amazing directing and a lot of directing,
and it is amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But you just did it. I remember that there's a
scene where she's outside. She's like this, you know what
I mean, why why she should be doing that? But
I haven't directed her to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
But that's the question.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
The constant like am I actually crazy? You know what
I'm saying. So, and I think that's why. You know,
it's like anxiety, and I think that's what leads to
like addiction. Right, we see her struggling with alcoholism. So,
but she's trying. I don't think she's always not doing right.
I think she genuinely thinks she is doing right and
then and she's just she's a human, you know what
I mean, She's really trying.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The thing the scene that we was just describing, you know,
you questioning yourself. That is something that black people constantly do, right,
because there's all of these things that we know are
on top of us. We know that we're being oppressed, right,
but then there's other society will be like, you're bugging sexism, homophobia,
please right?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Exactly, it's always chopped up to conspiracy or you know
what I'm saying, And it's we're supposed to act like.
And honestly, sometimes I just wonder, in order to survive
and not lose your mind, you kind of almost have
to sort of be on autopilot for a little bit,
you know, because you're right, we do know the food
is killing us, right, we do know politics are probably
not really actually working for us, but we're required to
show up and vote otherwise we're not doing our civic
(29:57):
duty or not, you know, and of course those things matter,
but there's a there's an era of that where we're
supposed to act like we don't know that other things
are happening above us. I'll say above us, but I
don't like saying that. Maybe just in the realm where
we at, you know, so, and I think so we
see that exemplified in the movie.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
She kind of it's like you feel fractured.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So I think she captured the depression right, and the
and the addiction right, you know, as a as a
recovering addict or as an addict. She captured the truth
of what it's like to wake up every day and
to fight depression and to get up out of bed
and not want to do drugs or to drink. She
(30:39):
captured that wholeheartedly with accuracy, I think, even better than
you did in Billy Holliday.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
It was actually, first of all, when you said that
on set, I was ready to cry, but it was
harder and it was funny because I was questioning myself.
People were like, Billy Holliday will be the hardest role
you ever play. So okay, I was like, Nigga, does.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
A lot wear me out right now? And I kind
of was like, am I crazy? Or have I just
lost it? Am I am? I? Maybe? Yeah, She's just.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
She required me to deal with like you said when
you watched it, the same way. Playing her, she required
me to deal with things in my personal life, to
talk to myself about things and I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
And for my faith to grow and to change.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I don't think I could have played her if I
did not almost have my own therapy, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Surrounding it?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
What do you want people to get out of this movie?
What do you at the end it is, what do
you want them to get out of it?
Speaker 5 (31:32):
Really?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
That you have to find because tomorrow isn't promised. You
have to find there's no This is not a joke.
Especially you have to sitting down with Biden, this sleepy ass,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
So why y'all got mad when I told them to
step down? He just goes back to what I'm saying.
I'm gon t Let me tell you anotherhing about this movie.
Let me tell you another thing about this movie. This
movie shows you that I mean, I do like to
this movie that if you don't deal, if you don't
acknowledge your demons, you have to acknowledge them. Once they
(32:05):
reveal themselves, you have to acknowledge them. And that's how
you deal with them when they say, you can't heal
what you don't reveal. So when these things reveal themselves
to you, you have to deal with them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
So that goes back what I'm gonna talking about depression
And something that really hit home was when you were
bold enough to like sit there and say that we
get depressed, that this is this is real and uh.
And that's when I had a new found respect for
what you do because it's like nobody that's that's something
(32:35):
that's me, like coming out of the closet, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That people don't Yeah, we don't talk about me. We
don't talk We can't talk about it. Yeah, yeactly for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Even though we all deal with it for generations. Like
my dad.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
My dad was going to therapy two and three times
a week, he was on ten to twelve different medications,
and he tried to kill himself back in the day.
I didn't find none of this out until twenty eighteen
after I started talking about my own issues.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So imagine if he would have opened up to me when.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
I was a child, when I was hiding in the
woods because I was having bad panic attacks.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Because it and how was he received in the community
like with that right, because at your father at the
time going to therapy, that's crazy. I mean, talking to
like my elders and parents about therapy right now was
kind of like, oh, well, you know, we don't really
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
That you're from a small town, so everybody had to know.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I wonder if you didn't talked to people about it.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Well, you know when I asked my mom, I said, Mom,
you know that was going through all that. My mom
exact words was, I thought he was playing crazy to
get a check.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Because I love my father.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
I love him so much.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I was talking to him about therapy the other Danny
he told me. I was like, Dad, you can't hold
on to everything right because things faster, they sit, they
did it.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
He was like yeah, he was like yeah. I was like, so,
you know, I want.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
You to just think about therapy and don't think about
it in terms of it's not that you're crazy.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
It's just you check in with your health.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You get your heart looked at, you get so why
would you not get your mind looked at it? It
has direct impact on your heart, on your body. He said, yeah, yeah,
well you know Nigga my dad's sophie from Detroit. He
really liked a nigga from Detroit. He was like, yeah,
you know, I've actually learned. He's like, I actually kind
of do my own therapy.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I've learned.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I take it, and I put it in this box,
and then I like, you know, I basically a compartmentalize place.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
So I tuck it away real deep.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I was like, right, I said, but all them little
prisoners are going to build up at a certain point.
So he told me, he was like, I just tuck
it away, and I was like, Dad, that's suppression. I
was like, that's the opposite of what we're talking about.
I was like, you got to talk about these things.
So it's just different the mentality.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
And another conversation. I hope this movie opens up to
this point. We're talking about some people definitely need therapy. Well,
some niggas need to exorcism. So how many niggas do
you know but actually need an exorcism?
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I think so, I think so listen, we're working in
the team.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'm sure. But I think also that because I was
thinking about this as as I was watching, a lot
of church people will say there's too much cursing in this,
there's too much like there's too much violence in this.
How can this be a faith based anything? Because there
and then you get into the politics of the church.
You know, you can get to the politics at the
(35:10):
church and just sort of deal with that bullshit, or
you can deal with spirituality and know that Jesus walked
with bookers drunks.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I've already gotten I literally got somebody hit me
the other day and was like, hey, you know, I
mean they asked politely, you know what I'm saying, but
it was like, hey, I don't understand how.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
You're a believer and would do a movie about demons.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
And I was just like, I remember, I think when
I get asked those questions, it's like, Okay, take a second,
take a beat. You could get offended, right, you know,
or you could just be like, there's not understanding here.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There's a lack of understanding. Maybe it's not on my part,
you know what I'm.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Saying, But I think that I it's always interesting to
me as a believer. I'm like, I read scripture, you
know what I mean. I do devotion. Everybody scripture. I
was like, niggas demons in a Bible, Like, I don't
know what to tell you. There's crazy things like the
whole premise is not that this life is clean and
perfect and not scary and not what's that it's all
of those things. We just have somewhere to put it,
and as he said, if it's a different faith, you
(36:05):
got somewhere to put it, you know. Like, so that's
really and and something a why. We have a why
for how to navigate this craziness, you know what I'm saying.
So the idea that we're not supposed touch those things,
to me is very, very weird and not realistic.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
You know.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Sometimes we use the demon thing to avoid the actual
issue though, right like when the grandma goes to the
past thing and tells us she thinks the house has
evil energy. It ain't just demon, just everything else you
talked about. It's the trauma, is the alcohol abuse, it's
the addiction. But it's like we'll talk about something supernatural
to avoid making better choices.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Right and unresolved issues with her daughter, because I think,
if I'm clear, I don't remember you and I talked
about this. But if I'm clear, you know, Alberta may
have changed. She received the Lord, you know what I mean.
She has transformed her life. And and that's why when
Ebane says to her, like you might have your little
church friends full, but I don't think we ever hear
a moment in there where Alberta goes to ebony and says, hey,
I'm really sorry for everything I did to you and
(36:59):
allowed happened to you. It's more like I don't want
to talk about that. I've transformed.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Now.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Let me just be good to the grandkids and good
to everyone else around me.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And that's the way it works.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, it's really but it's hard because sometimes you need,
like you said, you just averting the issue. Sometime you
actually need to look somebody in the face and with
humility say I acknowledge what happened to you, what I
did to you, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know what I'm saying, Which was part of my
journey with Monique.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Yeah, got you, Yes, you know, and you did.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
It first, right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah. I called her out of the blue, you know,
I wondered her and I was working on this y'all
see that that other horror movie that she did. Yes,
So this young this young filmmaker. I help a lot
of young filmmakers. Okay, So this young filmmaker called me
f out of the blue and said, listen, I'm working
on this movie and I need your help. So I said, okay,
(37:49):
So I saw the potential in the movie. It was incredible.
This kid was just incredible. And I worked with the
movie for free for six months because it was Monique.
She didn't know it. Six months. I helped him edit
the film because it was a little independent film and
and I was like, this bitch is fucking good. She's
fucking real good. That was part of me realizing I
(38:12):
had to she had to work. She just had to
continue to People are missing out on her work as
an artist. And uh so finally I said, listen, you
don't notice, but I've been working on this movie. I've
been working on this movie for like four or five months,
six months.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
She said, you sneaky bitch.
Speaker 7 (38:29):
I know, come here cuts him out.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And so that that was the beginning of art of
my healing through this kid that I was helping with
his film.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, and how did you how? I wanted to know
you know, I know you and Dame squashed your beef
as well.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
How did you?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
How did that happen? How did that healing happen?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
That happened because I was told by my all white
team at the time time that I didn't know him
any money, and I knew in my heart that if
I owed the drug. Even though the movie didn't make money,
the movie did not make money. So in theory, on paper,
I didn't know him any money, but I knew in
(39:15):
my heart that I told him I was gonna pay
him his money. So it was a it was a
it was a man to mand thing. But I'm listening
now to Hollywood because I'm in I've done an empire,
and I was like, Okay, this is the way to
white people with this. This is way he's supposed to work. No,
it don't work like that. And so even though we
took a the movie took a hit, shadow Boxer took
(39:36):
a hit, I was you know I did. I did
the right thing with him.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Too, And how was that combination?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Did take a public humiliation for me to understand that
I did the right thing. Otherwise I would have been
just scurtainy, and I don't think so MA would have
come to I would have had that come to Jesus,
But he put it Jesus a little earlier.
Speaker 6 (39:58):
I know you got to go in a few but
I want to ask you Lee about you know, because
you you've birthed a lot of people out here, right,
Jesse Smilett. What's that relationship like now? Because I remember
a few years ago they said, y'all were no longer
on speaking terms.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
We text.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
We text each other. Uh, we text each other. Here's
a movie that's coming that's out. I think that's coming out.
I haven't seen it yet. Uh. Look, it's it's so complicated, guys,
it's so complicated. Life is so complicated because of the incident,
because of the hoax, because it's themself. It's complicated. But
(40:32):
that whole situation was complicated. And I still don't know
what to believe. Honestly, I don't know what to believe
when people say he didn't do it. He did do it.
God bless him on his journey.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
And is there room for him to come back? Is
what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
And because because somebody like you, it takes other black
people to keep that grace in that door open for people,
other blacks that make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I work with him again, yeah, or I don't work
with him again.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
Would you cast him in something?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
H Yeah? I would cast him in something again. Got you?
It's a sun to me. You know, he was like
and he also represented me, and he also represented the
movement that we that I tried to to start, which
I didn't even know I was starting and I was
(41:18):
so busy worried about Cookie's hat and the music that
we were playing. This was before Insecure, This is before
Black Panther, this we started that it was, it was
before all of it. The fact we didn't didn't even
know what it was. But I was so worried about
the the I was so worried about, like getting everything right.
It's the phone right here, you know, on the set
that I didn't know what was happening in the zeitgeist.
(41:42):
So yeah, it's complicated.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
Empire definitely ushered in the new Black renaissance in cinema.
But yeah, the only reason I asked that is because
we see white actors make mistakes and get chance after
chance after chance. It's like with our our people, they
just get thrown away, just started black ball, never work again.
But it takes people like you to make sure that
they keep working.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
H Yeah, well, we appreciate you, and the film Deliverance
is out on August thirtieth on Netflix, and thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
You guys are invited.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Don't wait so long, I mean seven years probably.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I don't right now. Today today's it's in theaters in theaters,
It's on Netflix, August thirty.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Well, thank you guys for joining us. Andrew, I know
you'll be here again because you're working.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
I'll see'll for Exhibiting Forgiveness. It was the next movie
that comes out in October. Yeah, what was it called
Exhibiting Exhibiting Forgiveness. Yeah, it's actually the painter. Have you
heard of Titus Kafard. Are you familiar with his work?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
If you?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
If you yeah, if you're yes, If you've not seen
his work, you should, Definitely. He's a painter, is actually
what he is. He's working in the Mad Everything. He's
from Detroit, actually, but he very similar. He tells truthful stories.
But he he has never done a movie before. He
just needed apparently painting was just not sufficing. He needed
a medium to be able to reconcile his relationship with
(43:08):
his father, who was definitely a victim of sort of
the crack epidemic, and so reconciling that relationship and and
learning how to forgive, and so he just started writing
his story down and he wrote a script. So this
is his debut, uh directorial debut, in its first time
writing a script. It's called Exhibiting Forgiveness. It stars Andre Holland,
Andre new ellis John Jokes and myself, and and he
(43:31):
just he really beautifully talks about that. Forgiveness is an
amazing concept. Obviously, we've seen it today, We've talked about
it so much today, but I think we forget how
hard fought forgiveness can really be. You know, it always
feels like you're letting someone get away with someone, or
you may get away with something, You're making yourself more
vulnerable to more pain. But so it really dives into
the idea that it strengthens you. But it is a
(43:53):
hard fought battle. So that's that's October.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
When it comes out Your life is hilarious.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
You thought he was going to.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
This man man and co. It was just like, okay,
acting it is. I was like, okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
She's one of the most phenomenal actors I've ever worked with,
and I worked with all of them.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Truly, You're not gonna make me crying here, no, I really,
I really do love him. Between him and Missasha Smith,
who's also in this, I love her.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
She She's just one conversation director.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
She's director director, an incredible, incredible acting coach, and a
phenomenal actor.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
She also should be a motivational speaker.
Speaker 7 (44:40):
She she she gets you together in a voicemade she
could when she tells you.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So, this is what cracks me up. This is how
she would have got Biden together. She just looked at
and be like, coach excessive. And she stopped and she
look at me and she was like, I'm like, so,
I finished doing a little work and I'm looking at
her for a respond.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
She look at me, She's like, sys, it's terrible.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Might be top three realist niggas.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
My favorite, but both of them are the same.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
That's why I was like, I know, if I'm in
the coaching session, I'm not getting no bullshit. If I'm
on set, I'm not getting no bullshit. When they say cut,
I'm like, we got it. Like that's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
We appreciate you for joining us again. Thank you, sir,
Andrew Day Lee Daniels.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 5 (45:31):
Breakfast Club.
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Dateline NBC
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.