October 18, 2023 • 46 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Morning, everybody, It's DJ Envy Charlamagne de Guy. We are
to Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Indeed,
we have Nicole Levont.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
How are you feeling this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I feel so happy to be in New York, honestly
because my parents just rolled in New York and met here,
and my mom grew up here. And I just feel
Clarence and Jackie everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I feel. I woke up this morning, I'm looking at
this city. I'm all right, Mom, all right, Dad, let's
do this.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Did you always have that connected with New York? Yes? Okay,
why because of the story.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Of yeah and just being here, and you know, I
was actually conceived in New York and then they moved
to La and yes, I'm an La girl, but I
always spent time here. Oh my cousins are here, so
Jamaica Queens and New Rochelle and you know, Harlow, I
got people all over in New Jersey, and so I
just love New York.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
How do you know you was conceived it? That's not
a good one. That's not something mose kids. Did you
ask those ques.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I did the timeline. Okay, by the time you moved
to La. Okay, I was like, you were pregnant when
you moved Chela got you, you know. I was like, okay,
so I'm a New Yorker.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
This is Nicole Avon, the daughter of the legendary Clarence Avant,
the legendary of the legendary daughter of Jacqueline Avon, And
she wrote a book Think You'll be Happy. And you
know how I feel about your father. I've told you
that a million times. I got the opportunity to tell
mister Clarence himself he's one of my top four inspirations
ever in this entertainment business.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Like he was the guy.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you for saying that. He really was. I mean,
he's stealth I've never seen I mean he was ninety
two when he passed, and that man going through his
whole life and documenting his life and looking at everything.
I said, you had a million opportunities to quit and
would have every reason to quit, and no one would
(01:55):
have ever judge you. And he looked at me like,
why would you. You don't quit, You don't get to quit.
You could pause, you could pivot, but no, like, your
life is your life. You don't know how long you're
going to be here. And his whole thing is like,
you come with a number and you end with a number,
So what are you going to do with your dash?
(02:18):
That was it, What are you going to do with
your life? And it wasn't not fame for him. His
whole thing is, you know, greatness is very different from
being famous, and a lot of people now the new
generations are, oh, if I'm famous, I'm famous, I'll be great. No,
you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because
you're alive. You don't have to have a title to
(02:39):
be great, you know, or worthy or important or significant,
you know. So that's what I'm feeling a lot that
that was his whole thing. Even when he was passing away,
and as you know, his last days with me, he
was you know, his last words basically were like, keep
your mind right, girl, keep your mind right. It's okay, daddy,
I will.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
That's gonna be the name of a book, book keep.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, keep your mind right.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yes, and with all his okay because this book is
thinking you'll be happy.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Let people know why that title is.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes, So I think you'll be happy moving through grief
with great grays and gratitude. This I was already writing
a book in twenty twenty after I did The Black
Out Father, and I thought, you know what, I'm going
to write a book maybe based on the themes of
The Black Got Father, which were I picked three themes grit, grayson, gratitude.
(03:30):
And then I'm writing it and a couple of drafts
and they weren't right and nothing was landing. And then
this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a
you know, a home invasion, and I'm like, oh God,
And I thought, well, I have this book that I
was writing. Well, I'm not going to I'm not putting
this out. How are you going to put it out?
A book on grit, grays and gratitude after this. But
(03:51):
my father was like, mm mmm, no, you don't. You
don't let anyone take your life. You don't let anyone
stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing.
So I said, yeah, but Dad, it's called grit, grace,
and gratitude. And then think you'll be happy. Those were
the last words that my mom said to me at
eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a
(04:13):
sweet potato pie, and she said, you know, because my
dad typical clearance. They came for Thanksgiving the week before that.
He took his leftovers and we didn't even get to
the pie that my mom brought for me. And she
was so proud that she brought me this great pie
and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving she'said,
come get your pie, Come get your pie. And I said, Mom,
you and this pie, it's okay. And then she texted
(04:37):
me that night at eight o'clock and we went back
and forth about the sweet potato pie and I said,
I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it, I'll
come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy.
Never saw her again, never heard from her again. And
so when that happened, I thought, you know what. And
then we looked at when I was showing my publisher
(04:57):
my team the last text, they were like, that's the
title of the book because your mom actually didn't just
say I think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie.
You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to
go forward in life. That was your mantra to go
because my mom was a big believer on your words
(05:19):
and your actions and your thoughts will create your life.
It just can't change. We see proof of that every
single day. So I was like, right, I think you'll
be happy. Okay, okay, I'm gonna do this, like and
I'm going to move through my grief.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I was gonna ask how long did it take and
how difficult was it? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It was? So I started writing right after she. I
finished writing after she passed, so, you know, a year
and a half, two years all together, three years. And
it was difficult to write because it was reopening the wound.
Kind of felt like salt going back into the wound.
But it was all so the most cathartic thing I
(06:01):
could have ever done, because I was able to share
stories and remember stories about her. That did make me happy,
that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon jackie A,
you know what we used to call her, Jackie A,
was my mother. And she really took pride in raising
(06:21):
her children and supporting her family and loving her family.
And she loved history and all history, but especially my history.
She's like, you need to know who you are before
you leave this house every day, So She had this
thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was
letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to id B. Wells,
(06:44):
Harriet Tubman to George Washington, Carver and Hank Earon and
so and so. So She's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art,
You're going to see the greats Josephine Baker. There was
not a day where I didn't walk out of my
house where I didn't look at Josephine or Ruby Bridges.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
My mom's whole point is like, so when you go
out in the world, you will understand who you come from,
what stock do you come from? And then so no
matter what comes against you, you'll know the truth of
you owe these people all life. You know, you owe people.
These people could have quit and could have taken their
own lives, and they fought, and here you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Are doing this book.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Also had to be tough because you're honoring your mother
with this book. But then the late Great Clarence Avon
passed away. So how you've been navigating that?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You know, it was the last twenty months. So when
my mom when we left the hospital, so my mom,
you know, she was shot. She was shot in the back.
She made it to the hospital. She did not die
in her house. She made it to the hospital. She
you know, was in surgery. You know, they did what
they could, but she lost way too much blood. From
(07:56):
that moment, I looked at my father right when they
gave us the news, I said, Okay, you're coming home
with me. Let's just we were all shocked, drama, stress,
all that. I just said, come home with me. And
then for the last twenty months, I said, Okay, you're
gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're
gonna be together. I'm not going to leave you. You're not
gonna leave me, and we're gonna get through this shit
(08:21):
as best as we can. I don't even know what that.
I don't even know what it looks like.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Daddy.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, I was like, I was like, but we are
going to We're going to get through it. And he
would catch me sometimes he's like, get out of that
quicksand get out of that quicksand because I can see
you just spiraling. And he was so great because he
was still Clarence and he basically was like this is
I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He
(08:46):
never even used that word he would say when Jackie
disappeared the day Jackie disappeared, because it was so you
know what, and but to have him for twenty months
living under my roof with my husband, and we just decided, Okay,
our intention with him is he's going to feel safe,
he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure.
(09:11):
And it was the best twenty months I actually could
have ever had, because yes, I grew up with him,
but I left home at eighteen, never really came back home,
would spend time with him, but he was busy, Clarence
amount was doing things, and so I never really had
all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as
an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man,
(09:33):
I received so much more wisdom. And it was just
out of a tragedy that was the best thing that
could have happened, was that I got to live with
Clarence again.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Did you kind of feel like he was transitioning soon?
Because they always say when couples have been together that long.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I love that you asked that question. I swear to you.
The first three weeks I kept thinking, oh my god,
we probably have three weeks with him. Wow, we probably
have two months with him. Wow, because to your point,
all science shows, everybody shows like, oh, usually if its
spouse dies, especially at an older age, the next one
goes right after and within six months, and I thought,
(10:11):
oh my god, how am I gonna go? How are
we gonna do this? And then three months we'll go, by,
then another three months ago. By by the time we
got to nine months, I looked at him and I said,
he's Clarence Abon. I don't know what to tell you.
I said, now I understand why I call him the Godfather.
Like he he he. He would always say to me,
I'm gonna live as long as I can, and when
(10:33):
it's time for me to go. He literally read the
New York Times obituary column every single day, and he'd
read about other people's lives. He loved it, and he
was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm
just making sure I'm not in here today. And then
I would say no. My teas him, and I said,
one day I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're
gonna have the whole page. He goes, Oh, Nicole, please,
(10:55):
they probably won't put me in there. I maybe I
have a little paragraph, and when he died, the New
York Times gave him the whole back age and I went,
there you go.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Now we know grief isn't linear. And now the thing
I love about your book is it feels like everything
your mother and father instilled and you helped you to
be able to navigate this.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's not linear. It's like
a rollercoaster. Grief is just some days you're good and
you're like, oh, I got this, and then a song
would come on the radio. I mean, my mom loved
the Spinners and she loved easy music. You know, she
loved the Commodorees and the Spinners and Al Green, any
of those guys came out on the radio. I was
(11:36):
just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill
Withers would come on and I think of you know,
I think of my mom, and grief just it's waves.
But it also hits every single human being on this planet.
No one gets to escape grief. Grief is different for everybody.
(11:58):
But the thing that helped me be calm or calm
me down about it was when I got anxious, was
I'm not the only one who's grieving today. I'm not
the only one. There are mothers who are burying their
children around the world. There are mothers in our children's
hospital right who work in three jobs. There're a five
year old has leukemia, and that's grief. Your dog dies,
(12:21):
it's grief, yea, your grandparents, whatever it is, or sometimes
it's not even a death. You're fired from a job
that you loved and you gave so much of your
efforts and you were just don't know what happened. Grief
is hard, but it is you are able to move
through it. Now.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I want to talk forgiveness and faith, right, Yes, now,
you talk about that. You talk about that a lot
in the book, and that's very difficult for most people
to forgive, and especially with something like that, you kind
of lose a little bit of faith at first. Oh,
how did you get that faith back? If you ever
got it back, And let's talk about forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yes, good question. So my faith in that moment, It's
interesting when it happened, I walked back to my car,
Like Ted and my father left the hospital separately, I
had my own car and immediately, like my grandmother always
the first scripture that came to me, I am strong
(13:17):
in the Lord and in the power of the I
am strong in the Lord and in the power of
I just kept saying it over and over and over
again and then and then all of a sudden, I
was like, wait a minute, No, actually, no, I'm not
strong in the Lord? Like where where is everybody? Where
was anybody from my mom? You know? You definitely go there.
But then I snapped right back into it, like, no,
you know what faith isn't about. You can't just say
(13:42):
I have faith when everything is going right. Faith isn't
for when everything is going right. Faith is for when
everything is going wrong. Actually, it's easy to trust God
when everything's great right, It's very difficult to trust the
universe and the divine when things blow up. But people
have been doing this since the beginning of time. They
have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all
(14:04):
sitting here today is because people kept their faith in
God and planted seeds for us right to have freedom
to live the lives that we want to live while
they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it,
and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come
to them over and over, physical, emotional, spiritual trauma, then
(14:29):
I'm going to have to kind of tap into that
energy of other people who've also gone through this and
make and I had just had to make a decision
to stay in faith, even though I didn't know, even
though I didn't feel like being in faith. I just
made a decision. I just came home and I said, Okay, God,
I don't understand any of this. I don't know what
(14:49):
to do with this. I don't know who to call.
I don't know what book to pick up. And then
it was, you know my scripture, you know what I say?
And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and
the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's
going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life.
Death is a part of life. How we die, we
don't know. And then you know. And then in the
(15:10):
book I write TD Jakes and it's a true story.
I literally walked up in my room and I fell
to my knees, like, God, this is not happening. And
the phone rang and it's a no caller idea. I
don't think I'll hold on. I didn't know who it was.
I didn't I it was a detective or somebody, And
he said, is this Nicole and I said yes. He said,
(15:32):
this is Bishop TD Jakes. I said, oh my god,
well I just fell to my knees. He goes, he goes,
He goes, how are you holding up? I go, I
just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good,
We're going to pray. And he did his thing and
then he said, tell me why you're angry, but you're
angry about I go, well, obviously what I'm angry about.
(15:52):
I'm angry that someone did this. I'm angry about this.
I'm disappointed. And he said, okay, now are we going
to get this moment of five minutes gonna Are we
gonna focus on your mom's eighty one years of her
life and what she gave and what she did, or
are we going to give this full five minutes where
(16:13):
you're gonna go, because if you don't turn your mind quickly,
this is going to be a disaster. And I said,
I want to focus on the eighty one years. And
then the forgiveness part was the hardest, because you know,
forgiveness is a hard word, and it's a tricky word.
And I think a lot of people say I can
never forgive that because I've said that too, which means
(16:35):
I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's
never ever ever condoning a bad behavior. Ever. I forgave
so that I could peace in my heart. I forgave
for myself. I was like, Okay, I give up the
anger and the frustration and the sadness and the disappointment.
(16:57):
I give it up. I give it back to God
because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give
me your burdens. Okay, okay, well here in mine because
I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed, and I'm so just
take all this and every day I had to do that.
But I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person.
I don't care about his name, I didn't care about
his past. I didn't care about I didn't care. I
(17:18):
was like, I'm not giving him if any space in
my brain or my heart because I don't have a
bitter heart. I never had a bitter heart. But if
you don't forgive, you will have a better heart. And again,
to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation.
I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have
hurt me. I never reconciled with them.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I just forgave them.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
That was it. It was like, I just don't I
don't even want to have I don't want to carry
any weight in my body or carry the poison of
unforgiveness because it's not gonna bring my mom back. It's
not gonna bring Jackie back.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I don't think forgiveness is linear either, though.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, oh it's not.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Oh no, oh no.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Forgiveness is like all up, oh no. It's not like
oh I forgive and it goes away. It's it's like
I said it to some recently, it's if you have
like a pure white wash cloth and it's dipped in tar, right,
and you got to go back with that wash cloth
and try to clean it off. It takes a long time.
That's forgiveness. Forgiveness is an everyday thing. I mean sometimes
(18:26):
I just universally, I'm like, I forgive everyone and everything.
Before I go to sleep, I forgive everyone and everything.
And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I asked
that I am forgiven for everything that I have done,
consciously or unconsciously.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So what if you in your mind you be like
I forgive them, then you like, but fuck them.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I feel like God knows your.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Hot one hundred percent. I was like, I'm not. I'm
not trying to create any more karma at all. So
my whole thing is like, I want justice to be served.
That's that was my whole thing. I'm not trying to
get back in anybody or I want this to happen
to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not.
I don't justice be served. That's that's that's the piece
(19:09):
that I'll have for me if I get that. But
forgiveness is not linear. You're right. Forgiveness is and it's hard.
Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's but but
it is throughout scripture and most scriptures throughout history because
of this reason, and it's for us, it's not for
(19:30):
the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness has
talked about in all the good books so much, because
it's you could be really bitter or you know, my
friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust and she
said to her, the one thing you owe me, And
she was a child when she was in the Holocaust,
four or five, and she said, you owe me a
life that's what you owe me a life, you owe
(19:53):
you owe me a life, that's it. But you got
to give me a life because I survived so that
you could be here. And that always stuck with me
that you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother's
like we were born. It's you know, slavery, all of
us like this.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You always a life.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Sh'd go do something.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
You know what I thought about in the book too,
because you talk about how you know, the person who
took your mother's life with somebody that your mother would
have helped.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So it made me wonder, I wonder what.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Miss Jackie would have wanted for this young man in
a situation like that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, I think miss Jackie definitely would for sure want
justice and for sure want to make sure that anybody
like this right, anybody male, female, black, white, anybody with
any kind of energy that could be reckless or negative
or whatever, just please don't be in society, because she
(20:48):
would never want this to happen to anybody else. Surely
that that was the whole My whole thing was, I
just don't want I just want justice to be served
so that this doesn't happen to if I can prevent
this to for happening to somebody else by this person.
Then that's how.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I honor my mom.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
That's it, And there was nothing else. Nothing about him
is nothing I don't have. I don't want to have that.
I don't want to hate. And that was my first
prayer when I got down on my knees. The first
thing I said was, God, do not let me hate
this person, because I can. I'm already there. I'm there,
and I don't want to. I don't want to hate anyone.
(21:26):
And that was not Jackie. She ain't hate anyone. She
was in the inner city all the time. I'd be
in the back of the car, like, why are we
going to Watts again? You know, she said, because they
need us. She was around South Central all the time,
and she loved doing that anywhere anywhere in the world,
but especially Los Angeles. Like, you're going to share your blessings,
(21:49):
you should be grateful for your blessings, live out your blessings,
enjoy your blessings. But a lot of people missed the
second part, which is then also sir, and share your
blessings with other people, so then it all goes around
so that it's not you're not hoarding. Oh this is
mine and I earned this, and you know, you go
(22:10):
do your own thing. My mom was like, people had
to open doors for me, People open doors for your father.
People open doors all the time. So she believed in
a bridge and she believed, you know, we're all going
to cross this bridge, and then when we get to
the other side, we need to make sure that other
people can cross.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Not a phrase, it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Break that down, Clarence. So one of his isms was,
it is what it is, now what are you going
to do about it? And that was Clarence's ways of acceptance.
So his whole thing was looking cool. I'm not trying
to be hard. It's not crass. It's not saying, oh,
(22:50):
it is what it is, Oh screw you. He was saying,
you have to at least own it and don't pretend
this shit didn't happen. It is what it is. So
whether it's I lost my job, my wife ran out
on me, I got in this car accident, whatever it is,
it is what it is, and then you own it
and then you can make a better decision once you
(23:12):
take accountability. It is what it is. Now what am
I going to do about it? So for him, for example,
he had Sussex records. He was super successful. He started
then putting his hands in everything, and he was stretched
so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station.
He owned a radio station, he owned, He got into
the oil business, he got into publishing, he got into
(23:32):
all these things. It was too much for him, and
he admitted, and I was a little arrogant. So everything crashed.
Bill left. He was like, I don't want to be
a part of this. I'm leaving Sussex. I'm going here.
This didn't happen all of a sudden, Sussex folded, radio station,
folded everything. He's in full debt, and he said, I
had to look at myself and say, it is what
(23:55):
it is. So I screwed up on this, this, this
and this. I'm in debt. Oh, the government, this the
irs is in my office and da da da da dah.
And then he said, and I looked at myself in
the mirror, and I said, now what am I going
to do about it? And then he slowly but surely
started picking putting the pieces together. Jackie came in and
(24:15):
he was too. He was a little proud of, you know,
asking his friends for help. But my mom wasn't too proud,
so she would go drive around with me in the
back cars, in the back seats, sometimes going to his friends, saying,
Clarence doys everything for everybody. Where is somebody for Clarence.
He's had a bad break. He's been pulling you all
up this whole time. Where And Jerry Moss, who just
(24:38):
passed away, the founder of A and M Records. He
was in the M and A and M Records. He
and Herb Albert God bless them, and Joe Smith different times,
but they wrote they gave my parents seed money to
start over, and that's what they did. And then Taboo
Records started, and then and then the first band was
SOS Band and it was take your Time, do it Right,
(25:01):
And that was our comeback song in the Avon house,
and you know, me and my mom played it every day.
She was like, this is what I mean. You know,
if you if you own what it is and you
take accountability, you try at least have the intention to
start over. Look what happens now. We got the number
one song here and then Jimmy and Terry followed that,
(25:21):
then La and Face followed that, and then it was
Bobby Brown, and I'll be sure all these people Wayney Houston.
Everything followed that. But if my dad had not owned
it and owned his mistakes. And he said to me,
I said, what happened with the radio station? You had
the only black radio station on the West coast. He goes,
I was just arrogant. I didn't want to listen to
(25:42):
anybody in radio who knew better than I did. He said.
I just thought I'm clar and to say, but I'm
you know, I'm wealthy and successful. I'm living in Beverly Hills,
he goes, and then boom it all just wow crash,
you know. And so he always reminded me of of
you know, I'd call him if I had issues in
the Bahamas and the embassy. He was like, Nicole, Nicole,
(26:06):
you cannot make a great decision, which you need to
do right now if you do not accept what it
is right now. So you need to just say, okay, this,
this doesn't feel right, these people are doing this, this
is this. Then go into what are you gonna do
about it?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And make a decision, explain it to people. What just
choosing to swim me not going down?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Oh, not going down with that as do Jackie shit
every time. Because so my mom was big on She
loved the idea of She's like, look, life is gonna
She was like, you know, she's such a philosopher. She's like, life,
it's like being in an ocean. Some days are going
to be really calm, some days are going to be
rough seas. You never know what you're gonna get. We
(26:48):
think we do, we don't. And her whole point is,
whatever wave comes at you, whatever whatever storm comes, you
must make a choice. You have to choose to swim.
Just don't go down with the ship. It happens to everybody.
You gotta choose to just swim. It's dark, it's cold,
(27:10):
you don't know how you're going to get there, she goes,
And maybe you don't make it, but at least choose
to try to swim. Don't go down with the ship.
Which is why that was the mantra in my head
of every time I wanted to go down with the ship.
After this, I wanted to go down a lot, and
I was going down a lot, and I would hear
my mom like, you know, take a nap, take a
(27:31):
nap and rest, but you got to get out there,
and you have to swim for me, you know, swim
for me, swim so that people remember me. Right, Like
my dad would say, you know, righte about Jackie, Like
I don't know what to write, he goes right about Jackie,
right about are a lot right about this? Like it
should be. He believed in legacy, you know, That's why
he did everything. What he did was he was trying
(27:52):
to create legacy, whether it was Hank Aaron or you know,
Bill Withers or anybody like we're this is legacy to
be passed on to the next generations, like we all
survive and thrive on other people's legacy.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
It's not because you said you never saw your mom
after the text, but in the book you speak about
seeing her.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yes, crazy and beautiful. And I'm telling you it was.
And it was on Christmas Eve, and it was early morning,
and I had gotten up and I was like, oh god,
oh my god. And I thought, this is how are
we going to do Christmas? How are we going to
do Christmas? And I walked downstairs and I was I
(28:37):
found some ornaments that she had and I was putting
them on the tree and everything. And then I swear
to you, I felt this energy which made me turn around.
I go, mom, and she was like she was standing
right there, and then and then it was she was gone,
but she was with me, and I felt her, and
I felt her in the room, and then I was
(28:59):
and then all of a sudden, it was probably the
first time I really smiled in a couple of weeks,
like I felt a smile. I felt myself smile, and
then I knew for sure because she'd always say the
spirit is everlasting. She always told me that energy is
real and the spirit is everlasting, and I knew in
that moment. I said, oh, Mommy, okay, you're here and
(29:22):
you are everlasting. Okay, okay. And I remember looking at
a spider that I was. I would have usually killed
the spider. It was a big ass reader. My mom
always would take the paper, get the tissue, like talk
to the insect, and that it was Christmas Eve. I
go and in honor of you, I'm not gonna kill
this spider. But I felt her and I knew she
(29:44):
was there, and it was perfect that it was Christmas Eve.
And we had the best dinner that night with Clarence.
We poured him his wine, we played him his music
because you had to have Duke on. You had Duke Ellington,
Frank Sinatra, count Base, see Quincy Jones, and he remembered,
He's like, I used to go to Birdland and I
(30:04):
was here with Jackie. And then that's when we realized
how the healing was going to start for Clarence was, Oh,
we're going to play all this music from the sixties,
the seventies, the eighties, but mostly the sixties. When he
met my mom, when he was in New York, when
he was running and he was learning from Joe and
he was just becoming Clarence. It was all that music
(30:26):
because as we all know, with music, it ignites, it
just reignites every memory. I mean, I could listen to
his song from the eighties. I could tell you what
I was wearing, what perfumer I was wearing, who I
had a crush on in high school, what car I
was in. I went to this football game when this
song was playing. I danced with this at the prom. Mean,
that's what music does. So I used music. That was
(30:49):
my tool to play it for Clarence every single day.
So breakfast we played Frank Sinatra, dinner, we were Duke Ellington,
you know. Then it was count Basie and Quincy Jones,
and it was just music transformed him.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Was this book like a closure for you to get
your feelings out, to get everything out?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, it was. It was a lot of crying and
a lot of joy at the same time, because I
really did feel, Okay, I do believe that I do
believe that things are in divine I always pray for
divine order always, and I was like, I don't know
how this is divine, whatever it is, So this is
(31:30):
what I'm doing if this is how I'm honoring Jackie
in a book. First, and then I wanted to become
more like her. So I started doing the things that
she did, you know. I started reaching out to the
community more. I didn't just you know, write a check.
I was like, let me come down and see these
kids today. Let me go and deliver these books myself.
Let me go to this museum and see this exhibition.
(31:52):
What Jackie would have wanted. And then she started to
live within me in a different way, you know. And
so and now kind of with my dad, it's the same.
It's the same thing. I get now what he was
doing for Ali and everybody was like, we got to
put these people on maps so that nobody forgets. We
(32:13):
have to create our own legacy like everybody else does.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
When you talk about legacy, and you know the way
you speak of the house you grew up like.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I can't remember what the encounter was. Was the encounter
in your house?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I was at their house or in their house?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah? Oh my oh I'm sorry my mom, yeah, my house.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
So with the house you grew up in, how do
you get rid of that? Do you keep it? I
can't sell it?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Like I know, I know, it's so funny. I in
the beginning of that house, I was like, hold on,
let me just hold on. And I went through a
lot of things with my dad, And of course my
dad was like, get this to this museum, get this
to this Smithsonian, get this to the African American Museum.
I mean he was you know. Clarence was like, we didn't.
(32:59):
We didn't collect all this, you know. He said to me,
he goes, see, like I told you you don't take
shit with you. Look at all this. She's gone. Everything's here.
I'm gonna be gone. Everything's here. So we went through
his wishes, went through my mom's wishes. Thank god, they
wrote everything down. They were ordered like that. And then
I was like, okay, And then he's so funny you
(33:20):
say that. And then he looked at me and goes,
I go, Dad, so there's some people want to buy
the house. Don't sell this house, at least not while
I'm alive. Don't sell this house. He goes, this is
my house. He ain't taking my house. I ain't letting
nobody take my house. I pay for this house. This
is my house. I've been in Beverly Hills for over
fifty years in the same house. And what has come
(33:41):
through this house And then now when I look at it,
I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling,
and I'm like, m I don't think so. I don't
think so I might use it as something else, like
it's still a Meca of greatness. And I'm telling you,
I'm not just saying this. I'm not being delusional when
I tell you. And the energy there is so positive.
(34:02):
It is the most powerful it's ever been. It's almost
like she was struck by lighting and that was it.
And now the energy there, the hummingbirds are everywhere. The energy,
the vibration is high, and there are when I look
at it, and I look at like every specific piece
of art, this black artist and Jacob Lawrence when Jacob
(34:23):
was just starting, and my parents are like an Ernie Barnes.
Everybody but my parents like, we gotta support these black
artists and we gotta you know, and finding letters of
like James Baldwin and all these things. It's just I
don't know what I'm gonna do with that.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Hou.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's so funny that you said that maybe that was
my dad giving you a signe. I'm not gonna sell it,
I know, I know, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
They gotta get the book. We can't give the too much,
but I do. Got a couple more questions though.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Did you ever feel imposta syndrome in any way because
you were Clarence and Jackie's daughter, like you were getting
opportunities because of them and that you.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I know, actually I didn't, only because this goes back
to being Jackie. My mom made sure that I worked
jobs since I was thirteen. Like ten, I was answering phones,
I mean all the time, but I was thirteen, fourteen,
I was you know, she had to back then, you
had to sign the paper to allow your child to
work at fourteen you know under California or whatever. I
(35:20):
was a hostess, I was a waitress. I sold shoes.
I worked at Bullocks. I was terrible at selling shoes
because I couldn't put the boots back in the box properly.
It's a very hard job. It's really it's particular. But
my mom's point was, you need to learn how to
work on your own and not in a fancy situation. So, yes,
you will have internships later in life, but you're gonna work,
(35:44):
and you're gonna meet people that you will you would
have never met otherwise. And you're gonna understand how paycheck
to paycheck. You don't have to you. Yeah, you're collecting
and you get to put it in a savings account.
They don't this, and I need you to see this.
And she helped me with not having imposter syndrome also
(36:06):
because she would say to me, and Alex, you do
you Your spirit came to do whatever it's here to do.
My spirit, my soul is here to do what it's
supposed to do. If you want to be a teacher, great,
If you want to be a psychologist, great. If you
want to be a journalist, which I wanted to do, great,
I'll help you go to school. But she never felt
(36:29):
they never said you must do what we did and
you must stand in our shoes. They were really great
at please go create your own life, please, like we
gave you life, so we don't know what your life is.
And sometimes doors would open, and then sometimes they wouldn't,
which was great also because then I would you know,
(36:49):
at eighteen nineteen, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll get this
job for sure, and then I didn't, and I'm thinking, well,
wait a minute, wait a minute. Well I'm Clarence ave
moon staughter, I'm Jackie evemonstaughter. And then my mom said
you no, no, nicol people get to say no. I mean,
I've always told the story I got fired from a
job once and I said, can you believe they fired me?
Could you believe they fired me? She said, did they
fire you? Did you fire yourself? Did you fire yourself?
(37:12):
Because she knew, She says, you would call me all
the time on the big cell phones. You're the ones
that were this big, so you would call me like,
oh ten minutes, say to work, I hate this job.
My boss wus know me and she goes, And then
you were the first one out. You were the last
one to get there, so you fired yourself and you
know so she helped me with finding my own passion
(37:35):
and reminded me and Alex that you guys can do
really whatever you want to do. You do not have
any pressure from us to feel it, to feel that
you have to fill our shoes. And my dad's like,
my shoes are filled, my feeter in them. He goesn't
get in your own shake because don't follow my shadow.
(37:55):
He's like, go make your own shadow. Stop standing behind me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
What do you think the greatest lesson is you learned
from your mother? The ultimate one?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
And oh there's so many that it's really simple. Jackie
Avont really believed in She loved history and the importance
of history and culture, different cultures, you know, learning about
different cultures. She hated cultural appropriation. She was like, it's
cultural appreciation. What is happening with people? You know what
(38:22):
I mean? Like, she loved that. But she gave me
this sense of a zest for life. She loved being alive.
She believed in hope, She believed in compassion, and she
lived a compassionate life. She lived a life of service,
and she lived a life of giving and kindness, And
the greatest lesson I got from her was use your
(38:46):
freedom wisely, use your thoughts, wisely, use your words wisely.
You can take you could. Really, we're the only creatures
on earth that we can release our past. Right, we
don't have to carry if we don't want to. You
could really try to release it, manage it something. But
we're the only creatures on the earth that actually have
an imagination that allows us to create the future that
(39:10):
we want. That was her greatest lesson, Like, do not
forget that the power within you is the same power
that creates worlds and stars and you know what I mean,
you're connected to the same thing. So that's what she
gave me. This understanding of life and understanding of living
(39:33):
a worthy life, that you know, live a significant life.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Is that what you want people to get out of
his book by reading his book?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The main thing, Yeah, it's I want people to really
get that. You know, life can be hard, and all
of us go through trials and tribulations, but we always
have a choice on how we're going to deal with
those trials and tribulations. And my hope that when people
read the book, because it doesn't necessarily have to be
(40:00):
about grief. You know, the title is Think You'll Be Happy,
So it is a positive book. But I hope they're
inspired and motivated and courage to live the best life
that they can and understand while they're doing that that
they are still they are significant and important and valuable,
regardless of what their title is. Regardless like, you could
(40:21):
still have a meaningful life and that life is really
worth living.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
I just got through more questions. Yeah, what does Climax
North Carolina mean to you?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yes? And you know that you know what that means
to me that if you can come out of climax,
you could do anything. I mean, if you come out
of Climax North Carolina, you can do anything in the world.
If you if your mind is open and you're prepared.
You have no idea what's going to happen, but you
can do anything.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Who in this industry do you think is close to
being the Black Godfather.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
One? There's a few, you know, it's interesting. Reggie Hudlin
we did the celebration of life from my parents just
last Wednesday in LA and Reggie Hudn was great. He
got up and he said, what Clarence Avon has taught
us the question that we should ask ourselves is what
is your assignment? Clarence Avon understood his assignment, and I
(41:25):
think it's anybody who understands their assignment and anybody who
opens doors for people or makes connections for people, and
who is excited to see the magic that happens as
opposed to what am I going to get out of this?
That's the next Clarence Avant. Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Is there's somebody in front of the camera, behind the scenes.
It's two that come to my mind.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Who comes to your mind?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Tyler Ferry.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Absolutely, I was just gonna say, Tyler, I was I'm
just gonna seeing them on Thursday. I was gonna say,
Tyler is probably the most the closest to my out
in his actions. Yes, because Tyler and look at his life. Yeah,
I mean, come on, if somebody had every right to quit,
Tyler Perry had every single right to quit life. He
had right, we would all understand how. I get why
(42:15):
he quit. I get why he just threw in the towel.
Tyler not only became one of the most successful black
man in America, one of them, not just that he
has is so focused and so on purpose about turning
around and going into every community and was like, if
you have the will, I have the way, come on
(42:37):
and I'm going to bring you and I'm going to
teach you. And he's disciplined Tyler, and he has disciples
around him, right, and he's teaching always. But the thing
I love about Tyler Perry is that he wants to
see people succeed. He knows the law that there's enough
for there's more than enough for everybody, and that no
one can take from Tyler Perry or take from you,
(43:00):
or take from you or you or you anything that's
meant for you, no one can take it anyway. So Tyler,
I think embodies the most of Clarence Saba because he
doesn't expect anything in return. He does it with this
this love. You know. Oprah's the same way, Like they
put it out there and then it's like, you know,
(43:22):
it's for grabs.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
But Tyler Foreshore absolute, it'd be Tyler jay Z and
probably Oprah for me.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're they're doing it. And by the way,
look at all their Look where they all come from,
the best examples of it doesn't proof, doesn't matter where
you start, It matters where you finish doesn't matter. And
it is a journey, and all journeys are hard. By
the way, you've had hard time. We've all who who.
(43:52):
I don't know anyone on earth who hasn't had a
bump in the road or a hard journey. Some are
harder than others. I know that, but I think you
know having role models like that. And I'm working with
Tyler now. We're working on a film together called The
Six Triple Eight. It's gonna be out next year. I
wasn't supposed to be a plug, but I'm gonna plug it.
And I think Kerry Washington, she might have talked about it.
(44:14):
She was here, and it's great. But Tyler and I
wanted to keep legacy going. And this is a great
American story that just happens to be about all female,
all black battalion in the arm and what they did
and how they helped us win World War Two. I
was like, well, this is an important story, and I
call Tyler. I was like, you should do it, because
Tyler gets it. Tyler understands the responsibility that we have.
(44:40):
It's not about just telling stories and being rich and
a fancy card, a big house. Tyler understands on a
very deep, soulful level, that these are ripple effects when
I'm gone, when all of us in this room are gone,
that whatever we put out there, it's gonna live, like
this book is gonna live.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Absolutely. My last question.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
They always say, don't cry because it's over, Smile because
it happened.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
What have you done more of Oh?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
I love that I laughed. I try to laugh a lot.
I watch a lot of comedy. The Comedians saved me.
I was watching Chappelle for the last twenty months. I've
never watched so many Netflix comedy specials, Sebastian Chappelle, Chris Rock, everybody.
The laughter really is the healing bomb. It really does
shift your energy. My heart would break open in different ways,
(45:33):
and I would go to sleep every night during my
trauma and my stress, I would watch comedy before I
went to sleep. I needed to laugh before I laid
my head down on the pillow. Yeah wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well the book. Pick it up. Think you'll be happy,
grief and gratitude. That's right. Thank you so much. I
appreciate it so much.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Happy to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Good morning. Wake that ass up Earth in the morning
at Breakfast Club
Speaker 3 (46:07):
MHM
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Morning, everybody, It's DJ Envy Charlamagne de Guy. We are
to Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Indeed,
we have Nicole Levont.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
How are you feeling this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I feel so happy to be in New York, honestly
because my parents just rolled in New York and met here,
and my mom grew up here. And I just feel
Clarence and Jackie everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I feel. I woke up this morning, I'm looking at
this city. I'm all right, Mom, all right, Dad, let's
do this.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Did you always have that connected with New York? Yes? Okay,
why because of the story.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Of yeah and just being here, and you know, I
was actually conceived in New York and then they moved
to La and yes, I'm an La girl, but I
always spent time here. Oh my cousins are here, so
Jamaica Queens and New Rochelle and you know, Harlow, I
got people all over in New Jersey, and so I
just love New York.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
How do you know you was conceived it? That's not
a good one. That's not something mose kids. Did you
ask those ques.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I did the timeline. Okay, by the time you moved
to La. Okay, I was like, you were pregnant when
you moved Chela got you, you know. I was like, okay,
so I'm a New Yorker.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
This is Nicole Avon, the daughter of the legendary Clarence Avant,
the legendary of the legendary daughter of Jacqueline Avon, And
she wrote a book Think You'll be Happy. And you
know how I feel about your father. I've told you
that a million times. I got the opportunity to tell
mister Clarence himself he's one of my top four inspirations
ever in this entertainment business.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Like he was the guy.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you for saying that. He really was. I mean,
he's stealth I've never seen I mean he was ninety
two when he passed, and that man going through his
whole life and documenting his life and looking at everything.
I said, you had a million opportunities to quit and
would have every reason to quit, and no one would
(01:55):
have ever judge you. And he looked at me like,
why would you. You don't quit, You don't get to quit.
You could pause, you could pivot, but no, like, your
life is your life. You don't know how long you're
going to be here. And his whole thing is like,
you come with a number and you end with a number,
So what are you going to do with your dash?
(02:18):
That was it, What are you going to do with
your life? And it wasn't not fame for him. His
whole thing is, you know, greatness is very different from
being famous, and a lot of people now the new
generations are, oh, if I'm famous, I'm famous, I'll be great. No,
you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because
you're alive. You don't have to have a title to
(02:39):
be great, you know, or worthy or important or significant,
you know. So that's what I'm feeling a lot that
that was his whole thing. Even when he was passing away,
and as you know, his last days with me, he
was you know, his last words basically were like, keep
your mind right, girl, keep your mind right. It's okay, daddy,
I will.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
That's gonna be the name of a book, book keep.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, keep your mind right.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yes, and with all his okay because this book is
thinking you'll be happy.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Let people know why that title is.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes, So I think you'll be happy moving through grief
with great grays and gratitude. This I was already writing
a book in twenty twenty after I did The Black
Out Father, and I thought, you know what, I'm going
to write a book maybe based on the themes of
The Black Got Father, which were I picked three themes grit, grayson, gratitude.
(03:30):
And then I'm writing it and a couple of drafts
and they weren't right and nothing was landing. And then
this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a
you know, a home invasion, and I'm like, oh God,
And I thought, well, I have this book that I
was writing. Well, I'm not going to I'm not putting
this out. How are you going to put it out?
A book on grit, grays and gratitude after this. But
(03:51):
my father was like, mm mmm, no, you don't. You
don't let anyone take your life. You don't let anyone
stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing.
So I said, yeah, but Dad, it's called grit, grace,
and gratitude. And then think you'll be happy. Those were
the last words that my mom said to me at
eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a
(04:13):
sweet potato pie, and she said, you know, because my
dad typical clearance. They came for Thanksgiving the week before that.
He took his leftovers and we didn't even get to
the pie that my mom brought for me. And she
was so proud that she brought me this great pie
and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving she'said,
come get your pie, Come get your pie. And I said, Mom,
you and this pie, it's okay. And then she texted
(04:37):
me that night at eight o'clock and we went back
and forth about the sweet potato pie and I said,
I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it, I'll
come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy.
Never saw her again, never heard from her again. And
so when that happened, I thought, you know what. And
then we looked at when I was showing my publisher
(04:57):
my team the last text, they were like, that's the
title of the book because your mom actually didn't just
say I think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie.
You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to
go forward in life. That was your mantra to go
because my mom was a big believer on your words
(05:19):
and your actions and your thoughts will create your life.
It just can't change. We see proof of that every
single day. So I was like, right, I think you'll
be happy. Okay, okay, I'm gonna do this, like and
I'm going to move through my grief.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I was gonna ask how long did it take and
how difficult was it? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It was? So I started writing right after she. I
finished writing after she passed, so, you know, a year
and a half, two years all together, three years. And
it was difficult to write because it was reopening the wound.
Kind of felt like salt going back into the wound.
But it was all so the most cathartic thing I
(06:01):
could have ever done, because I was able to share
stories and remember stories about her. That did make me happy,
that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon jackie A,
you know what we used to call her, Jackie A,
was my mother. And she really took pride in raising
(06:21):
her children and supporting her family and loving her family.
And she loved history and all history, but especially my history.
She's like, you need to know who you are before
you leave this house every day, So She had this
thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was
letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to id B. Wells,
(06:44):
Harriet Tubman to George Washington, Carver and Hank Earon and
so and so. So She's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art,
You're going to see the greats Josephine Baker. There was
not a day where I didn't walk out of my
house where I didn't look at Josephine or Ruby Bridges.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
My mom's whole point is like, so when you go
out in the world, you will understand who you come from,
what stock do you come from? And then so no
matter what comes against you, you'll know the truth of
you owe these people all life. You know, you owe people.
These people could have quit and could have taken their
own lives, and they fought, and here you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Are doing this book.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Also had to be tough because you're honoring your mother
with this book. But then the late Great Clarence Avon
passed away. So how you've been navigating that?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You know, it was the last twenty months. So when
my mom when we left the hospital, so my mom,
you know, she was shot. She was shot in the back.
She made it to the hospital. She did not die
in her house. She made it to the hospital. She
you know, was in surgery. You know, they did what
they could, but she lost way too much blood. From
(07:56):
that moment, I looked at my father right when they
gave us the news, I said, Okay, you're coming home
with me. Let's just we were all shocked, drama, stress,
all that. I just said, come home with me. And
then for the last twenty months, I said, Okay, you're
gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're
gonna be together. I'm not going to leave you. You're not
gonna leave me, and we're gonna get through this shit
(08:21):
as best as we can. I don't even know what that.
I don't even know what it looks like.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Daddy.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, I was like, I was like, but we are
going to We're going to get through it. And he
would catch me sometimes he's like, get out of that
quicksand get out of that quicksand because I can see
you just spiraling. And he was so great because he
was still Clarence and he basically was like this is
I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He
(08:46):
never even used that word he would say when Jackie
disappeared the day Jackie disappeared, because it was so you
know what, and but to have him for twenty months
living under my roof with my husband, and we just decided, Okay,
our intention with him is he's going to feel safe,
he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure.
(09:11):
And it was the best twenty months I actually could
have ever had, because yes, I grew up with him,
but I left home at eighteen, never really came back home,
would spend time with him, but he was busy, Clarence
amount was doing things, and so I never really had
all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as
an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man,
(09:33):
I received so much more wisdom. And it was just
out of a tragedy that was the best thing that
could have happened, was that I got to live with
Clarence again.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Did you kind of feel like he was transitioning soon?
Because they always say when couples have been together that long.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I love that you asked that question. I swear to you.
The first three weeks I kept thinking, oh my god,
we probably have three weeks with him. Wow, we probably
have two months with him. Wow, because to your point,
all science shows, everybody shows like, oh, usually if its
spouse dies, especially at an older age, the next one
goes right after and within six months, and I thought,
(10:11):
oh my god, how am I gonna go? How are
we gonna do this? And then three months we'll go, by,
then another three months ago. By by the time we
got to nine months, I looked at him and I said,
he's Clarence Abon. I don't know what to tell you.
I said, now I understand why I call him the Godfather.
Like he he he. He would always say to me,
I'm gonna live as long as I can, and when
(10:33):
it's time for me to go. He literally read the
New York Times obituary column every single day, and he'd
read about other people's lives. He loved it, and he
was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm
just making sure I'm not in here today. And then
I would say no. My teas him, and I said,
one day I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're
gonna have the whole page. He goes, Oh, Nicole, please,
(10:55):
they probably won't put me in there. I maybe I
have a little paragraph, and when he died, the New
York Times gave him the whole back age and I went,
there you go.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Now we know grief isn't linear. And now the thing
I love about your book is it feels like everything
your mother and father instilled and you helped you to
be able to navigate this.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's not linear. It's like
a rollercoaster. Grief is just some days you're good and
you're like, oh, I got this, and then a song
would come on the radio. I mean, my mom loved
the Spinners and she loved easy music. You know, she
loved the Commodorees and the Spinners and Al Green, any
of those guys came out on the radio. I was
(11:36):
just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill
Withers would come on and I think of you know,
I think of my mom, and grief just it's waves.
But it also hits every single human being on this planet.
No one gets to escape grief. Grief is different for everybody.
(11:58):
But the thing that helped me be calm or calm
me down about it was when I got anxious, was
I'm not the only one who's grieving today. I'm not
the only one. There are mothers who are burying their
children around the world. There are mothers in our children's
hospital right who work in three jobs. There're a five
year old has leukemia, and that's grief. Your dog dies,
(12:21):
it's grief, yea, your grandparents, whatever it is, or sometimes
it's not even a death. You're fired from a job
that you loved and you gave so much of your
efforts and you were just don't know what happened. Grief
is hard, but it is you are able to move
through it. Now.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I want to talk forgiveness and faith, right, Yes, now,
you talk about that. You talk about that a lot
in the book, and that's very difficult for most people
to forgive, and especially with something like that, you kind
of lose a little bit of faith at first. Oh,
how did you get that faith back? If you ever
got it back, And let's talk about forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yes, good question. So my faith in that moment, It's
interesting when it happened, I walked back to my car,
Like Ted and my father left the hospital separately, I
had my own car and immediately, like my grandmother always
the first scripture that came to me, I am strong
(13:17):
in the Lord and in the power of the I
am strong in the Lord and in the power of
I just kept saying it over and over and over
again and then and then all of a sudden, I
was like, wait a minute, No, actually, no, I'm not
strong in the Lord? Like where where is everybody? Where
was anybody from my mom? You know? You definitely go there.
But then I snapped right back into it, like, no,
you know what faith isn't about. You can't just say
(13:42):
I have faith when everything is going right. Faith isn't
for when everything is going right. Faith is for when
everything is going wrong. Actually, it's easy to trust God
when everything's great right, It's very difficult to trust the
universe and the divine when things blow up. But people
have been doing this since the beginning of time. They
have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all
(14:04):
sitting here today is because people kept their faith in
God and planted seeds for us right to have freedom
to live the lives that we want to live while
they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it,
and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come
to them over and over, physical, emotional, spiritual trauma, then
(14:29):
I'm going to have to kind of tap into that
energy of other people who've also gone through this and
make and I had just had to make a decision
to stay in faith, even though I didn't know, even
though I didn't feel like being in faith. I just
made a decision. I just came home and I said, Okay, God,
I don't understand any of this. I don't know what
(14:49):
to do with this. I don't know who to call.
I don't know what book to pick up. And then
it was, you know my scripture, you know what I say?
And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and
the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's
going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life.
Death is a part of life. How we die, we
don't know. And then you know. And then in the
(15:10):
book I write TD Jakes and it's a true story.
I literally walked up in my room and I fell
to my knees, like, God, this is not happening. And
the phone rang and it's a no caller idea. I
don't think I'll hold on. I didn't know who it was.
I didn't I it was a detective or somebody, And
he said, is this Nicole and I said yes. He said,
(15:32):
this is Bishop TD Jakes. I said, oh my god,
well I just fell to my knees. He goes, he goes,
He goes, how are you holding up? I go, I
just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good,
We're going to pray. And he did his thing and
then he said, tell me why you're angry, but you're
angry about I go, well, obviously what I'm angry about.
(15:52):
I'm angry that someone did this. I'm angry about this.
I'm disappointed. And he said, okay, now are we going
to get this moment of five minutes gonna Are we
gonna focus on your mom's eighty one years of her
life and what she gave and what she did, or
are we going to give this full five minutes where
(16:13):
you're gonna go, because if you don't turn your mind quickly,
this is going to be a disaster. And I said,
I want to focus on the eighty one years. And
then the forgiveness part was the hardest, because you know,
forgiveness is a hard word, and it's a tricky word.
And I think a lot of people say I can
never forgive that because I've said that too, which means
(16:35):
I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's
never ever ever condoning a bad behavior. Ever. I forgave
so that I could peace in my heart. I forgave
for myself. I was like, Okay, I give up the
anger and the frustration and the sadness and the disappointment.
(16:57):
I give it up. I give it back to God
because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give
me your burdens. Okay, okay, well here in mine because
I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed, and I'm so just
take all this and every day I had to do that.
But I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person.
I don't care about his name, I didn't care about
his past. I didn't care about I didn't care. I
(17:18):
was like, I'm not giving him if any space in
my brain or my heart because I don't have a
bitter heart. I never had a bitter heart. But if
you don't forgive, you will have a better heart. And again,
to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation.
I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have
hurt me. I never reconciled with them.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I just forgave them.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
That was it. It was like, I just don't I
don't even want to have I don't want to carry
any weight in my body or carry the poison of
unforgiveness because it's not gonna bring my mom back. It's
not gonna bring Jackie back.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I don't think forgiveness is linear either, though.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, oh it's not.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Oh no, oh no.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Forgiveness is like all up, oh no. It's not like
oh I forgive and it goes away. It's it's like
I said it to some recently, it's if you have
like a pure white wash cloth and it's dipped in tar, right,
and you got to go back with that wash cloth
and try to clean it off. It takes a long time.
That's forgiveness. Forgiveness is an everyday thing. I mean sometimes
(18:26):
I just universally, I'm like, I forgive everyone and everything.
Before I go to sleep, I forgive everyone and everything.
And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I asked
that I am forgiven for everything that I have done,
consciously or unconsciously.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So what if you in your mind you be like
I forgive them, then you like, but fuck them.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I feel like God knows your.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Hot one hundred percent. I was like, I'm not. I'm
not trying to create any more karma at all. So
my whole thing is like, I want justice to be served.
That's that was my whole thing. I'm not trying to
get back in anybody or I want this to happen
to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not.
I don't justice be served. That's that's that's the piece
(19:09):
that I'll have for me if I get that. But
forgiveness is not linear. You're right. Forgiveness is and it's hard.
Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's but but
it is throughout scripture and most scriptures throughout history because
of this reason, and it's for us, it's not for
(19:30):
the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness has
talked about in all the good books so much, because
it's you could be really bitter or you know, my
friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust and she
said to her, the one thing you owe me, And
she was a child when she was in the Holocaust,
four or five, and she said, you owe me a
life that's what you owe me a life, you owe
(19:53):
you owe me a life, that's it. But you got
to give me a life because I survived so that
you could be here. And that always stuck with me
that you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother's
like we were born. It's you know, slavery, all of
us like this.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You always a life.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Sh'd go do something.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
You know what I thought about in the book too,
because you talk about how you know, the person who
took your mother's life with somebody that your mother would
have helped.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So it made me wonder, I wonder what.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Miss Jackie would have wanted for this young man in
a situation like that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, I think miss Jackie definitely would for sure want
justice and for sure want to make sure that anybody
like this right, anybody male, female, black, white, anybody with
any kind of energy that could be reckless or negative
or whatever, just please don't be in society, because she
(20:48):
would never want this to happen to anybody else. Surely
that that was the whole My whole thing was, I
just don't want I just want justice to be served
so that this doesn't happen to if I can prevent
this to for happening to somebody else by this person.
Then that's how.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I honor my mom.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
That's it, And there was nothing else. Nothing about him
is nothing I don't have. I don't want to have that.
I don't want to hate. And that was my first
prayer when I got down on my knees. The first
thing I said was, God, do not let me hate
this person, because I can. I'm already there. I'm there,
and I don't want to. I don't want to hate anyone.
(21:26):
And that was not Jackie. She ain't hate anyone. She
was in the inner city all the time. I'd be
in the back of the car, like, why are we
going to Watts again? You know, she said, because they
need us. She was around South Central all the time,
and she loved doing that anywhere anywhere in the world,
but especially Los Angeles. Like, you're going to share your blessings,
(21:49):
you should be grateful for your blessings, live out your blessings,
enjoy your blessings. But a lot of people missed the
second part, which is then also sir, and share your
blessings with other people, so then it all goes around
so that it's not you're not hoarding. Oh this is
mine and I earned this, and you know, you go
(22:10):
do your own thing. My mom was like, people had
to open doors for me, People open doors for your father.
People open doors all the time. So she believed in
a bridge and she believed, you know, we're all going
to cross this bridge, and then when we get to
the other side, we need to make sure that other
people can cross.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Not a phrase, it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Break that down, Clarence. So one of his isms was,
it is what it is, now what are you going
to do about it? And that was Clarence's ways of acceptance.
So his whole thing was looking cool. I'm not trying
to be hard. It's not crass. It's not saying, oh,
(22:50):
it is what it is, Oh screw you. He was saying,
you have to at least own it and don't pretend
this shit didn't happen. It is what it is. So
whether it's I lost my job, my wife ran out
on me, I got in this car accident, whatever it is,
it is what it is, and then you own it
and then you can make a better decision once you
(23:12):
take accountability. It is what it is. Now what am
I going to do about it? So for him, for example,
he had Sussex records. He was super successful. He started
then putting his hands in everything, and he was stretched
so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station.
He owned a radio station, he owned, He got into
the oil business, he got into publishing, he got into
(23:32):
all these things. It was too much for him, and
he admitted, and I was a little arrogant. So everything crashed.
Bill left. He was like, I don't want to be
a part of this. I'm leaving Sussex. I'm going here.
This didn't happen all of a sudden, Sussex folded, radio station,
folded everything. He's in full debt, and he said, I
had to look at myself and say, it is what
(23:55):
it is. So I screwed up on this, this, this
and this. I'm in debt. Oh, the government, this the
irs is in my office and da da da da dah.
And then he said, and I looked at myself in
the mirror, and I said, now what am I going
to do about it? And then he slowly but surely
started picking putting the pieces together. Jackie came in and
(24:15):
he was too. He was a little proud of, you know,
asking his friends for help. But my mom wasn't too proud,
so she would go drive around with me in the
back cars, in the back seats, sometimes going to his friends, saying,
Clarence doys everything for everybody. Where is somebody for Clarence.
He's had a bad break. He's been pulling you all
up this whole time. Where And Jerry Moss, who just
(24:38):
passed away, the founder of A and M Records. He
was in the M and A and M Records. He
and Herb Albert God bless them, and Joe Smith different times,
but they wrote they gave my parents seed money to
start over, and that's what they did. And then Taboo
Records started, and then and then the first band was
SOS Band and it was take your Time, do it Right,
(25:01):
And that was our comeback song in the Avon house,
and you know, me and my mom played it every day.
She was like, this is what I mean. You know,
if you if you own what it is and you
take accountability, you try at least have the intention to
start over. Look what happens now. We got the number
one song here and then Jimmy and Terry followed that,
(25:21):
then La and Face followed that, and then it was
Bobby Brown, and I'll be sure all these people Wayney Houston.
Everything followed that. But if my dad had not owned
it and owned his mistakes. And he said to me,
I said, what happened with the radio station? You had
the only black radio station on the West coast. He goes,
I was just arrogant. I didn't want to listen to
(25:42):
anybody in radio who knew better than I did. He said.
I just thought I'm clar and to say, but I'm
you know, I'm wealthy and successful. I'm living in Beverly Hills,
he goes, and then boom it all just wow crash,
you know. And so he always reminded me of of
you know, I'd call him if I had issues in
the Bahamas and the embassy. He was like, Nicole, Nicole,
(26:06):
you cannot make a great decision, which you need to
do right now if you do not accept what it
is right now. So you need to just say, okay, this,
this doesn't feel right, these people are doing this, this
is this. Then go into what are you gonna do
about it?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And make a decision, explain it to people. What just
choosing to swim me not going down?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Oh, not going down with that as do Jackie shit
every time. Because so my mom was big on She
loved the idea of She's like, look, life is gonna
She was like, you know, she's such a philosopher. She's like, life,
it's like being in an ocean. Some days are going
to be really calm, some days are going to be
rough seas. You never know what you're gonna get. We
(26:48):
think we do, we don't. And her whole point is,
whatever wave comes at you, whatever whatever storm comes, you
must make a choice. You have to choose to swim.
Just don't go down with the ship. It happens to everybody.
You gotta choose to just swim. It's dark, it's cold,
(27:10):
you don't know how you're going to get there, she goes,
And maybe you don't make it, but at least choose
to try to swim. Don't go down with the ship.
Which is why that was the mantra in my head
of every time I wanted to go down with the ship.
After this, I wanted to go down a lot, and
I was going down a lot, and I would hear
my mom like, you know, take a nap, take a
(27:31):
nap and rest, but you got to get out there,
and you have to swim for me, you know, swim
for me, swim so that people remember me. Right, Like
my dad would say, you know, righte about Jackie, Like
I don't know what to write, he goes right about Jackie,
right about are a lot right about this? Like it
should be. He believed in legacy, you know, That's why
he did everything. What he did was he was trying
(27:52):
to create legacy, whether it was Hank Aaron or you know,
Bill Withers or anybody like we're this is legacy to
be passed on to the next generations, like we all
survive and thrive on other people's legacy.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
It's not because you said you never saw your mom
after the text, but in the book you speak about
seeing her.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yes, crazy and beautiful. And I'm telling you it was.
And it was on Christmas Eve, and it was early morning,
and I had gotten up and I was like, oh god,
oh my god. And I thought, this is how are
we going to do Christmas? How are we going to
do Christmas? And I walked downstairs and I was I
(28:37):
found some ornaments that she had and I was putting
them on the tree and everything. And then I swear
to you, I felt this energy which made me turn around.
I go, mom, and she was like she was standing
right there, and then and then it was she was gone,
but she was with me, and I felt her, and
I felt her in the room, and then I was
(28:59):
and then all of a sudden, it was probably the
first time I really smiled in a couple of weeks,
like I felt a smile. I felt myself smile, and
then I knew for sure because she'd always say the
spirit is everlasting. She always told me that energy is
real and the spirit is everlasting, and I knew in
that moment. I said, oh, Mommy, okay, you're here and
(29:22):
you are everlasting. Okay, okay. And I remember looking at
a spider that I was. I would have usually killed
the spider. It was a big ass reader. My mom
always would take the paper, get the tissue, like talk
to the insect, and that it was Christmas Eve. I
go and in honor of you, I'm not gonna kill
this spider. But I felt her and I knew she
(29:44):
was there, and it was perfect that it was Christmas Eve.
And we had the best dinner that night with Clarence.
We poured him his wine, we played him his music
because you had to have Duke on. You had Duke Ellington,
Frank Sinatra, count Base, see Quincy Jones, and he remembered,
He's like, I used to go to Birdland and I
(30:04):
was here with Jackie. And then that's when we realized
how the healing was going to start for Clarence was, Oh,
we're going to play all this music from the sixties,
the seventies, the eighties, but mostly the sixties. When he
met my mom, when he was in New York, when
he was running and he was learning from Joe and
he was just becoming Clarence. It was all that music
(30:26):
because as we all know, with music, it ignites, it
just reignites every memory. I mean, I could listen to
his song from the eighties. I could tell you what
I was wearing, what perfumer I was wearing, who I
had a crush on in high school, what car I
was in. I went to this football game when this
song was playing. I danced with this at the prom. Mean,
that's what music does. So I used music. That was
(30:49):
my tool to play it for Clarence every single day.
So breakfast we played Frank Sinatra, dinner, we were Duke Ellington,
you know. Then it was count Basie and Quincy Jones,
and it was just music transformed him.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Was this book like a closure for you to get
your feelings out, to get everything out?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, it was. It was a lot of crying and
a lot of joy at the same time, because I
really did feel, Okay, I do believe that I do
believe that things are in divine I always pray for
divine order always, and I was like, I don't know
how this is divine, whatever it is, So this is
(31:30):
what I'm doing if this is how I'm honoring Jackie
in a book. First, and then I wanted to become
more like her. So I started doing the things that
she did, you know. I started reaching out to the
community more. I didn't just you know, write a check.
I was like, let me come down and see these
kids today. Let me go and deliver these books myself.
Let me go to this museum and see this exhibition.
(31:52):
What Jackie would have wanted. And then she started to
live within me in a different way, you know. And
so and now kind of with my dad, it's the same.
It's the same thing. I get now what he was
doing for Ali and everybody was like, we got to
put these people on maps so that nobody forgets. We
(32:13):
have to create our own legacy like everybody else does.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
When you talk about legacy, and you know the way
you speak of the house you grew up like.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I can't remember what the encounter was. Was the encounter
in your house?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I was at their house or in their house?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah? Oh my oh I'm sorry my mom, yeah, my house.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
So with the house you grew up in, how do
you get rid of that? Do you keep it? I
can't sell it?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Like I know, I know, it's so funny. I in
the beginning of that house, I was like, hold on,
let me just hold on. And I went through a
lot of things with my dad, And of course my
dad was like, get this to this museum, get this
to this Smithsonian, get this to the African American Museum.
I mean he was you know. Clarence was like, we didn't.
(32:59):
We didn't collect all this, you know. He said to me,
he goes, see, like I told you you don't take
shit with you. Look at all this. She's gone. Everything's here.
I'm gonna be gone. Everything's here. So we went through
his wishes, went through my mom's wishes. Thank god, they
wrote everything down. They were ordered like that. And then
I was like, okay, And then he's so funny you
(33:20):
say that. And then he looked at me and goes,
I go, Dad, so there's some people want to buy
the house. Don't sell this house, at least not while
I'm alive. Don't sell this house. He goes, this is
my house. He ain't taking my house. I ain't letting
nobody take my house. I pay for this house. This
is my house. I've been in Beverly Hills for over
fifty years in the same house. And what has come
(33:41):
through this house And then now when I look at it,
I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling,
and I'm like, m I don't think so. I don't
think so I might use it as something else, like
it's still a Meca of greatness. And I'm telling you,
I'm not just saying this. I'm not being delusional when
I tell you. And the energy there is so positive.
(34:02):
It is the most powerful it's ever been. It's almost
like she was struck by lighting and that was it.
And now the energy there, the hummingbirds are everywhere. The energy,
the vibration is high, and there are when I look
at it, and I look at like every specific piece
of art, this black artist and Jacob Lawrence when Jacob
(34:23):
was just starting, and my parents are like an Ernie Barnes.
Everybody but my parents like, we gotta support these black
artists and we gotta you know, and finding letters of
like James Baldwin and all these things. It's just I
don't know what I'm gonna do with that.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Hou.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's so funny that you said that maybe that was
my dad giving you a signe. I'm not gonna sell it,
I know, I know, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
They gotta get the book. We can't give the too much,
but I do. Got a couple more questions though.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Did you ever feel imposta syndrome in any way because
you were Clarence and Jackie's daughter, like you were getting
opportunities because of them and that you.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I know, actually I didn't, only because this goes back
to being Jackie. My mom made sure that I worked
jobs since I was thirteen. Like ten, I was answering phones,
I mean all the time, but I was thirteen, fourteen,
I was you know, she had to back then, you
had to sign the paper to allow your child to
work at fourteen you know under California or whatever. I
(35:20):
was a hostess, I was a waitress. I sold shoes.
I worked at Bullocks. I was terrible at selling shoes
because I couldn't put the boots back in the box properly.
It's a very hard job. It's really it's particular. But
my mom's point was, you need to learn how to
work on your own and not in a fancy situation. So, yes,
you will have internships later in life, but you're gonna work,
(35:44):
and you're gonna meet people that you will you would
have never met otherwise. And you're gonna understand how paycheck
to paycheck. You don't have to you. Yeah, you're collecting
and you get to put it in a savings account.
They don't this, and I need you to see this.
And she helped me with not having imposter syndrome also
(36:06):
because she would say to me, and Alex, you do
you Your spirit came to do whatever it's here to do.
My spirit, my soul is here to do what it's
supposed to do. If you want to be a teacher, great,
If you want to be a psychologist, great. If you
want to be a journalist, which I wanted to do, great,
I'll help you go to school. But she never felt
(36:29):
they never said you must do what we did and
you must stand in our shoes. They were really great
at please go create your own life, please, like we
gave you life, so we don't know what your life is.
And sometimes doors would open, and then sometimes they wouldn't,
which was great also because then I would you know,
(36:49):
at eighteen nineteen, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll get this
job for sure, and then I didn't, and I'm thinking, well,
wait a minute, wait a minute. Well I'm Clarence ave
moon staughter, I'm Jackie evemonstaughter. And then my mom said
you no, no, nicol people get to say no. I mean,
I've always told the story I got fired from a
job once and I said, can you believe they fired me?
Could you believe they fired me? She said, did they
fire you? Did you fire yourself? Did you fire yourself?
(37:12):
Because she knew, She says, you would call me all
the time on the big cell phones. You're the ones
that were this big, so you would call me like,
oh ten minutes, say to work, I hate this job.
My boss wus know me and she goes, And then
you were the first one out. You were the last
one to get there, so you fired yourself and you
know so she helped me with finding my own passion
(37:35):
and reminded me and Alex that you guys can do
really whatever you want to do. You do not have
any pressure from us to feel it, to feel that
you have to fill our shoes. And my dad's like,
my shoes are filled, my feeter in them. He goesn't
get in your own shake because don't follow my shadow.
(37:55):
He's like, go make your own shadow. Stop standing behind me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
What do you think the greatest lesson is you learned
from your mother? The ultimate one?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
And oh there's so many that it's really simple. Jackie
Avont really believed in She loved history and the importance
of history and culture, different cultures, you know, learning about
different cultures. She hated cultural appropriation. She was like, it's
cultural appreciation. What is happening with people? You know what
(38:22):
I mean? Like, she loved that. But she gave me
this sense of a zest for life. She loved being alive.
She believed in hope, She believed in compassion, and she
lived a compassionate life. She lived a life of service,
and she lived a life of giving and kindness, And
the greatest lesson I got from her was use your
(38:46):
freedom wisely, use your thoughts, wisely, use your words wisely.
You can take you could. Really, we're the only creatures
on earth that we can release our past. Right, we
don't have to carry if we don't want to. You
could really try to release it, manage it something. But
we're the only creatures on the earth that actually have
an imagination that allows us to create the future that
(39:10):
we want. That was her greatest lesson, Like, do not
forget that the power within you is the same power
that creates worlds and stars and you know what I mean,
you're connected to the same thing. So that's what she
gave me. This understanding of life and understanding of living
(39:33):
a worthy life, that you know, live a significant life.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Is that what you want people to get out of
his book by reading his book?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The main thing, Yeah, it's I want people to really
get that. You know, life can be hard, and all
of us go through trials and tribulations, but we always
have a choice on how we're going to deal with
those trials and tribulations. And my hope that when people
read the book, because it doesn't necessarily have to be
(40:00):
about grief. You know, the title is Think You'll Be Happy,
So it is a positive book. But I hope they're
inspired and motivated and courage to live the best life
that they can and understand while they're doing that that
they are still they are significant and important and valuable,
regardless of what their title is. Regardless like, you could
(40:21):
still have a meaningful life and that life is really
worth living.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
I just got through more questions. Yeah, what does Climax
North Carolina mean to you?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yes? And you know that you know what that means
to me that if you can come out of climax,
you could do anything. I mean, if you come out
of Climax North Carolina, you can do anything in the world.
If you if your mind is open and you're prepared.
You have no idea what's going to happen, but you
can do anything.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Who in this industry do you think is close to
being the Black Godfather.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
One? There's a few, you know, it's interesting. Reggie Hudlin
we did the celebration of life from my parents just
last Wednesday in LA and Reggie Hudn was great. He
got up and he said, what Clarence Avon has taught
us the question that we should ask ourselves is what
is your assignment? Clarence Avon understood his assignment, and I
(41:25):
think it's anybody who understands their assignment and anybody who
opens doors for people or makes connections for people, and
who is excited to see the magic that happens as
opposed to what am I going to get out of this?
That's the next Clarence Avant. Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Is there's somebody in front of the camera, behind the scenes.
It's two that come to my mind.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Who comes to your mind?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Tyler Ferry.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Absolutely, I was just gonna say, Tyler, I was I'm
just gonna seeing them on Thursday. I was gonna say,
Tyler is probably the most the closest to my out
in his actions. Yes, because Tyler and look at his life. Yeah,
I mean, come on, if somebody had every right to quit,
Tyler Perry had every single right to quit life. He
had right, we would all understand how. I get why
(42:15):
he quit. I get why he just threw in the towel.
Tyler not only became one of the most successful black
man in America, one of them, not just that he
has is so focused and so on purpose about turning
around and going into every community and was like, if
you have the will, I have the way, come on
(42:37):
and I'm going to bring you and I'm going to
teach you. And he's disciplined Tyler, and he has disciples
around him, right, and he's teaching always. But the thing
I love about Tyler Perry is that he wants to
see people succeed. He knows the law that there's enough
for there's more than enough for everybody, and that no
one can take from Tyler Perry or take from you,
(43:00):
or take from you or you or you anything that's
meant for you, no one can take it anyway. So Tyler,
I think embodies the most of Clarence Saba because he
doesn't expect anything in return. He does it with this
this love. You know. Oprah's the same way, Like they
put it out there and then it's like, you know,
(43:22):
it's for grabs.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
But Tyler Foreshore absolute, it'd be Tyler jay Z and
probably Oprah for me.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're they're doing it. And by the way,
look at all their Look where they all come from,
the best examples of it doesn't proof, doesn't matter where
you start, It matters where you finish doesn't matter. And
it is a journey, and all journeys are hard. By
the way, you've had hard time. We've all who who.
(43:52):
I don't know anyone on earth who hasn't had a
bump in the road or a hard journey. Some are
harder than others. I know that, but I think you
know having role models like that. And I'm working with
Tyler now. We're working on a film together called The
Six Triple Eight. It's gonna be out next year. I
wasn't supposed to be a plug, but I'm gonna plug it.
And I think Kerry Washington, she might have talked about it.
(44:14):
She was here, and it's great. But Tyler and I
wanted to keep legacy going. And this is a great
American story that just happens to be about all female,
all black battalion in the arm and what they did
and how they helped us win World War Two. I
was like, well, this is an important story, and I
call Tyler. I was like, you should do it, because
Tyler gets it. Tyler understands the responsibility that we have.
(44:40):
It's not about just telling stories and being rich and
a fancy card, a big house. Tyler understands on a
very deep, soulful level, that these are ripple effects when
I'm gone, when all of us in this room are gone,
that whatever we put out there, it's gonna live, like
this book is gonna live.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Absolutely. My last question.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
They always say, don't cry because it's over, Smile because
it happened.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
What have you done more of Oh?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
I love that I laughed. I try to laugh a lot.
I watch a lot of comedy. The Comedians saved me.
I was watching Chappelle for the last twenty months. I've
never watched so many Netflix comedy specials, Sebastian Chappelle, Chris Rock, everybody.
The laughter really is the healing bomb. It really does
shift your energy. My heart would break open in different ways,
(45:33):
and I would go to sleep every night during my
trauma and my stress, I would watch comedy before I
went to sleep. I needed to laugh before I laid
my head down on the pillow. Yeah wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well the book. Pick it up. Think you'll be happy,
grief and gratitude. That's right. Thank you so much. I
appreciate it so much.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Happy to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Good morning. Wake that ass up Earth in the morning
at Breakfast Club
Speaker 3 (46:07):
MHM
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