September 1, 2025 • 50 mins
Today on The Breakfast Club, Patientce Foster Talks Iconic Artist Rollouts, Building Brand Legacy, Representing Cardi B. Listen For More!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Every day, Up we click yours up the breakfast Club
fish for y'all done morning. Everybody's the j n V.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Jess hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are the breakfast Club.
Law La Rosa is here as well. We got a
special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, she's the only
other person from Delaware that I know. You know, you know,
you know Joe Biden President Joe Body, Yes.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I know him as well.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
And you know, as Patience, what the FuG Patience.
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Ladies, and you know what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm about you, you know on imagine every players she
says in Patience, what the fuck when she's about to,
I guess do something she's not supposed to with Patience.
So she said, Patience be like, yeah, when when Carty's
about to do something she's not supposed to be, I
guess you pop up in her mind, like.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
CARDI what Patience is the founder and CEO of Cream Labs.
But you know she's behind you know some of the biggest.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Artists rollouts in hip hop?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Correct, right?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And you've been with Cardis since they one?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah? Wow, yes, ten years as of said Timber of
this year. Wow.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But let's start that. How did you meet Cardy and
how did you get on part of her team?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:05):
I love this story.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
So when I had my son, I decided not to
go back and work for Hurts. I was renting cars Hurts.
After I graduated college, I ended up having to rent cars.
There were no jobs. So I decided to open up
a salon in Wilmington called Victated the salon with my
tax refund money.
Speaker 6 (01:27):
I've been so for instance, day when we was in
there doing all the f I was in the photo shit.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Continue on, you know what.
Speaker 7 (01:35):
So basically I was, you know, just operating in the salon.
But I opened the salon because I always wanted to
be a publicist. So I'm like, I'm going to use
my stylist as like my case studies my clients while
I self teach myself right, so I would look for
opportunities for them outside of the booth was like my
selling point. So fast forward maybe four years. My partner
(01:56):
actually who's here. He was bringing a lot of talent
and celebrities to Wilmington, and we're a very very small market,
so there's not a ton of talent that comes in
and out of Wilmington, especially because we're so close to Philly,
so he would throw live events. There were a ton
of different events and talent and celebrities that you know,
he would bring out. So my stylists were telling me, Hey,
(02:19):
this girl named Carti is coming to Delaware, She's coming
to dance.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
We want to do her hair and makeup.
Speaker 7 (02:24):
I didn't follow her at the time, but I, you know,
I followed their lead, and I reached out to Bunn
and asked him, you know, would you mind putting in
a word with Cardi and her management.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
You know, we'll do her hair and her makeup at
no cost.
Speaker 7 (02:36):
So he followed through and he made the connection, the
very first connection between myself and Cardi. And she pulled
up with her manager at the time and a pt cruiser.
She had this orange wig on, yes.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Cruiser. This was so early on.
Speaker 7 (02:54):
This was like literally like before love and hip hop
are any So yeah, she pulled up, she got her
hair and makeup done, and she was just like, you
want to come to the club with me? And I'm like, oh,
you know, I got a sitter, why not. So we
go to the club and she gets dressed. She asked
(03:16):
me to help me pick her money up while she's dancing,
We order some wings, We go our separate ways.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
At the end of the night.
Speaker 7 (03:22):
And about maybe a month or two later, I had
started filling out internship applications because I was just like,
I'm twenty six.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
I think I was Oh. I was like, oh my gosh,
I was twenty six, and I'm like, you know, my
son is two three at the time, I really still
want to be a publicist. I need to make a move.
Speaker 7 (03:39):
So I just started filling out all of these internship
applications for fashion week, which is kind of what segued
us into that space, and I took an internship. I
slept on my friend's couch in Newark, New Jersey, and
maybe my third day on the job, I ran into
Cardi backstage. She was walking in the Gypsy Sports show
because they want it all like internet or you know,
(04:00):
social media personalities, and she was like, oh, like, what.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Are you doing here? Are you doing hair? And I
was like, no, I'm a publicist.
Speaker 7 (04:07):
She was like, oh, I need one of those, and
I was like okay, and her and chef invited me
to dinner that night, and I walked in and they
introduced me as her new publicist.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
And that's how.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
This was before.
Speaker 7 (04:22):
We were selling makeup, watch, popping, cosmetics, a lot of everything.
The cosmetics, I'm sorry, your hair salon, Oh no no.
So as we continued to like grow and the business grew,
I you know, leveraged my what I was building with
her into an agency, which is how cream Labs came about.
(04:44):
And you know, I decided that, you know, maybe like
six years after having the salon open, I just didn't
have the capacity, where the bandwidth to do it. And
the industry and the salon, like the salon industry has
shifted so much. People wanted their own suites, their own brands.
So I just focused on building out and expanding the agency.
See but that's what you know, all of it led
up into building with Hardy.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Did you do her half for her recent court case?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
I was here for the whigs, like definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But talk about that.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
I mean, Charlayne mentioned that it's funny. But I think
even when we saw her switching wigs recently, people instantly
started remembering the first time we saw her in court
and everything was a moment when she was showing up
the court right, And you guys have been really good
about making moments from the beginning? Was Cardi always the
artist that wanted to do that? Did you have to
talk her into it? How did What was her first
moment where she's like I needed this, how I need
(05:38):
to live the rest of my career?
Speaker 7 (05:40):
Her first moment, I would say it was the week
that we met. Is the week that we decided to
work with each other, which was fashion week. And I
say that because the way that she showed up. So
once we decided, like, all right, we're gonna work together,
there was a few shows left and the last show
that normally had during fashion week was The Blonde. So
(06:02):
you know, as an intern, my job was to get
people from their black trucks to the front, you know,
to their front row seat. So I'm like, you know,
nobody really knows you outside of the personality that you
built on social media. Let's just start increasing your visibility
right away. And again I'm like self teaching myself at
this point, I'm just doing what feels right. So I
told her to come to the show, and I was
(06:23):
just gonna seat her, and I'm like, just come and
just look like you belong. Like she shows up in
a turban these like wooden nipple pasties and like a
flared bell bottom pant, and everybody was just like if
they didn't know who she was, they wanted to know
who she was. And I just set her. I just
found a spot on the front row and just set her.
(06:44):
And that told me that she was number one. She
was willing to be collaborative and trusting. It wasn't like
why I gotta do this, or I'm not really invited,
I don't want to show up. I'm not gonna always
get an invite in the very beginning. Sometimes you got
to show people why you should be invited, right, and
that does come with a risk, obviously, but she was
willing to, like bugget, She's like, Okay, where I gotta be,
(07:05):
I'm gonna show up, what I gotta wear, Okay, I'm there,
and she just went with it.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
So at that moment, I.
Speaker 7 (07:09):
Knew like she loved and wanted to leave an impression
wherever she went and really make a moment. And I
think we just always carried that same energy throughout everything
we did.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I love that because that really defines Cardy B as
a person. A lot of times people don't hear that
side of it. Charlamagne and myself. We've seen her early on,
so we've seen the grind. We've seen her eating the
McDonald's in the morning, we've seen her going to the
teen parties, and we've seen that grind and the clubs
and the strip clubs and the regular clubs and this.
So I love that story because it shows that, you know,
sometimes people are like, oh, no's that No, she deserves
(07:42):
to be here.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
She worked league absolutely against all odds, and it's great
that I was so fortunate to number one be you know,
just given the space to like, we're gonna figure this
out together. You've never been necessarily a publicist of x
amount of years, never been a superstar, Like, you're just
gonna figure this out and trust in one another's intuition,
(08:04):
in one another's vision.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
And she literally like being there to see all the nose.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
I love that I'm still in a seat to be
able to see all of those people just eat their words,
like so many people were just like it'll never happen
for her.
Speaker 8 (08:18):
I love more, particularly about your story, how you went through,
how you use the hair industry to step into.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Pr Yeah, that is so dope. Yeah, it was, I
mean living in a place like Wilmington, and Lauren knows
like where we're Delaware.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
Down wherever we go, it's like, yes, we're from Delaware,
but the community in the network is so small, it's
so limited, and to be in a space like public relations,
you have to put yourself in spaces where you can
rub elbows and kiss babies and build a network. So
I still felt like before I put myself out there,
I wanted to have enough confidence.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
And experience just from an entry level point of view.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
So looking at my stylists more like clients was really
what helped me to feel like, Okay, I got enough
confidence to walk into a space and feel like I
know how to represent people.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Even if it's on a small level.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
I feel like I had the fundamentals to represent someone
and help leverage whatever talent they have into a brand.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I didn't know that that's what I was doing.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
So early on, but now that I'm much more aware
of my capabilities than what I'm able to do, I
know that I'm able to take talent and leverage that
into a brand, a brand that is sustainable outside of
just one category.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Imagine question, there's between managing talent and managing the perception
of the talent.
Speaker 7 (09:39):
I mean, I think that that's a piece of it,
Managing the perception of the talent, because the perception is
essential to the value of the brand at the end
of the day. But managing the talent, I mean, I
think there's a lot of different aspects to managing the talent.
You have day to day, you need someone who's consistently
paying attention to the logistics, the calendar, all of the
(10:01):
things that keep everything moving.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
And then you have people that have their expertise.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
You have your music managers, you have your brand managers,
and I think managing the talent overall is just making
sure that there's consistently a strategy, there's consistently a plan,
Like I don't know if people think that it's just
we're just winging it. Like there's always a plan and
there's always a goal. There's always like we know exactly
what it is that we want to do and what
(10:25):
we want to accomplish. But I think really managing the
talent is understanding the product itself, which is what the
talent is, whether it's music, whether it's making clothes, whatever
it is, and then understanding how you create a relationship
that's engaging with that audience in a way that grows
the brand, that builds value in the brand, because at
(10:47):
the end of the day, you want to be able
to leverage that brand into something that is legacy for you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Let me ask a question, how do you decide when
somebody's a friend or when somebody's a client? Right, because
you're going to have clients to pay you for certain things.
But I'm assuming Cardi B. Is not just a client.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
She's your friend, meaning you can see that.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
But like, so if you're working with somebody and now
Cardi B Is beefing with that person, you can't work
with that person anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
But what a client is just like it's just a check.
So how do you decide that?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And if Cardi's like, you know, let's say it's not
rocking with somebody, you say, ah, well, I can't work
with that person anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
How does that work?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I mean, that's a very real thing.
Speaker 7 (11:20):
Like and I think also it's just what is your
philosophy as what is your philosophy as an entrepreneur or
a boss or whatever it is that you do, right,
And I feel like whatever your philosophy is and your
principles are, is how you show up.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
When it comes to making those type of decisions.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
And my philosophy is a lot different from other people,
Like there is no real defining line between personal and business.
Like my business is very personal, Like my business feeds
my kid, My business builds my livelihood and keeys my
livelihood and maintains a lifestyle that I like to live. Like,
so my business is very personal because you know, if
(11:56):
you compromise my business, now you're compromising the way I eat.
So when it comes to cardying any other client, and
anyone can tell you wherever there are boundaries or there's
an opposition, or someone that you know has done something
in a way that not only makes them feel away,
but has messed with their business and their livelihood, I
(12:18):
could never do business with you.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, And that's just what it is.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Like. I think some people try to convince themselves that
it's okay because it's just business. But there is no
way that you don't have any emotional attachment or personal
relationship with somebody that you go into a conference room
or on a conference call every day and fight.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
For them to eat.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
We got to have a personal relationship that doesn't turn
off when I decide I want to take another check
from somebody that doesn't align with you, Like, we got
to be on the same side for this to work.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
Yeah, do you guys generally only manage artists or is
it actresses?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
It's actress.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
We're not specific to artists or the company that we've
recently announced and built Fifth and Freedom. It's not just
specific to artists. It's just specific to talent, but talent
that is talent that I can see true value in. Like,
because one of the main things about Fifth and Freedom
is that it's a new way of management, and it's
(13:15):
a new way of looking at talent where some people
are just more reactive. They're waiting on an email, they're
waiting for a deal, they're waiting to respond. Like it's
about being proactive but also making sure that we're not
limiting the talent to this one category. That we're building
a brand that can sustain over years without necessarily having
to be active in one category. So it's about like
(13:35):
building legacy, equitable opportunities, like joint ventures, things that you know,
at the end of the day, they'll have something to
pass down or they'll have something to fall back on.
Because everybody doesn't whether you're an artist, whether you're an influencer,
you may not want to make content every single day.
Once you breach a certain point, it gets tiring. You
may not be inspired. You may not be ready to
(13:56):
drop a project every other month to meet a certain
goal or drop a single right, but how are you
sustaining in between time? I think that comes from like
building real brand value, so that way you can, you know,
build a true legacy.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
How do you deal with somebody like Lauren? First of all,
I'm no serious, right because you know Lauren from Delaware?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
But she thinks to ask your question she's from Delaware.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
No, I want to know how do you deal with her?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So, meaning you know she's a she's gonna poke the bell,
She's gonna find out the story. But that's your client, right,
and so she's gonna call you and say I just
heard this, but you don't want the story out, or
maybe the story is wrong. In most cases you can
just say in the middle finger keep it moving. But
now with her, and I've heard her call you mad times,
mad time?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
So how do you deal with somebody that's a friend
but you have a client and he can't hold water
for nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Right?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
You so you ask anything that's wrong.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But like I said, so, how do you deal with like,
you know, because you have relationship for TMZ, these blocks,
how do you deal with that?
Speaker 7 (15:05):
I mean, I think like I'm just real big on
like whoever I'm dealing with on a level like that,
you're calling me directly and we're having conversations about things
that are pertaining to clients. Like we already have a
level of trust there and a level of respect because
most people will send out and I was a publicist
years ago. I am no longer the publicist for everyone
(15:26):
that is.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Still mentioning.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Labs. What's your title?
Speaker 7 (15:32):
I'm also the co founder in Fifth and Freedom with
my partner, But but I'm also I'm the brand Ford Carti.
I'm her brand manager and her creative director. Yes, so
at the end of the day, I work across her
entire business at the end of the day because again
like the longest standing member of her you know, of
(15:52):
her group, of her of her team. So I'm involved
in every single conversation at the end of the day
because we built that currency of trust there. But no,
I was a publicist and that was you know what
got me into the spaces that I needed to be in.
But as I understood what I'm truly capable of, just
(16:13):
outside of helping to control narratives and stories.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So you got old pictures of Lauren to make sure
she don't putting that now.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
You used to share Airbnb in l A and go
out to like awards. We weren't. We didn't have a
name at the time, so we weren't on the list.
So we were just Fana. We've been We've been friends
for well over well over a decade.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
We grew up together. So but how I deal to
your to answer your question? I think it's just already
a level of respect there. So she's not gonna she's
gonna tell me what it is. This is the information
I have. What do you want to do with that information?
Speaker 6 (16:53):
Right?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
And there's two things for me. Are you on the
record or are we off the record? Number One?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
You always on the record, Lauren.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Journalists guys really do.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
So it's a lot of times when I call her
too and be like completely before she even starts.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Completely you know what I mean. Yeah, So it's like
I'm going to approach I don't.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
I think I do a very good job, Like I
don't blur the lines between what I do as a
professional and who I am as a person, because they're
pretty much aligned. Like who I am as a professional
is how I show up as a person. So how
I deal with her is just in any friendship. Let's
be transparent, Let's be honest with each other. This is
what I have to say. This is what I'm not
(17:36):
gonna say hypothetically. I'm gonna say this, and you know,
we just work through it together. And I don't ever
think for a moment I'm never going to have a
conversation with somebody that got a second guest, is this information?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Want to leave this phone call?
Speaker 7 (17:50):
So it's like I think, because of our friendship and
the trust and the history that we have there, we
can do good business.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So how do you decide what's best for your client?
What's best for your girl? And what I mean by
that is like, you know, you see, like somebody like
Lauren in the position she's in, she's growing, like you know,
she's building her name. You might have some information that
you could be I could get the People magazine, but
if I give it them law and it's really gonna
help brown girl grinding.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So what are you do in those situations.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
I think it depends on the situation.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
For wherever there's controversy, drama, no punt intended, right, that's
not ever. That's never been a part of my process
or my systems, Like I'm never feeding. I know there's
people that think like, oh, this is a pr stunt,
like never feeding or setting up a stunt, right, But
in terms of like exclusives, like oh, we have this
(18:36):
like great information or something we want to share about
the album, Like of course, like I would want, you know,
my friend to have the exclusive, but when it comes
to the client, it's just like you if you love
me and you say you're my friend, then you respect
the fact that I have to do what's best for
my client and that's just you know. And if that
level of understanding is just not there, then we're truly
(18:58):
we're not friends.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
And we can't do business.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
I will say, there's been plenty of time. And also too,
I think it's like a trade thing because like for me,
it's like okay, maybe if I know this or you're
just giving me this, But then your client whoever, is like,
we want to go another place with it. I'm like
I talk to her all the time, she'll call me
about something else. There's been many times where I couldn't
do something, but on the back end, it's like, ooh,
I might get another story that's bigger, or you might
come to me and say, hey, this is announcing Like
(19:20):
so there, it's a transactional thing as well for me.
But I want to talk about when, like so Carti says,
patients be like what the fuck. There's a lot of
moments because y'all don't stage these things, but people always
think things are stage. So like the Harper's Bizarre Party moment,
the Nicki Minaj Cardi b the fight at the Harper's
Bazar party.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
First, well, she didn't even hear the she wasn't there
when when Cardi made the record, because you heard it
when when.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Cardi played for you, you were surprised when she when
she said, yeah.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
I wasn't I wasn't there for when she when she
recorded the record, like what the fuck? In real life,
I was just like taken back because.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Why did it have to be me?
Speaker 7 (19:59):
But I mean, I guess it only makes sense because
a lot of people probably think that there's this this
yes man complex and our relationship and it's the complete opposite,
like I'm gonna always have her back right, wrong, oring different,
like there's never gonna be a time that I was
standing down from that. But at the same time, where
we don't agree, we don't agree respectfully right, and we
(20:21):
handle that like adults, and I think we do a
really good job of like we know that our loyalty
as like friends and basically sisters is you know, the
core of our relationship. But it really doesn't blur the
lines when it comes to like being direct about you know,
business decisions or just you know, life decisions.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
We don't always see eye to eye. So there are
plenty of times that she does.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
And I don't know why the Internet thinks that I've
like have these strings and control what she says or
what she can do, Like I think her fans kind
of have this idea like take her phone, make her
get off the internet, like it's a grown ass woman,
Like she's the one do and say as she please,
and yes, from time to time she asked for suggestions
or advisement, But there are some times where she jumps
(21:05):
out the window and she do and say whatever she
want to do, and I am looking like what the fuck?
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Like so like the talent that's coming into fitting freedom.
I think what I was going to ask was, there's
a lot of those moments in their big because of
who she is and become of her personality. How do
you in real time strategize and figure it out where
it doesn't hit her brand or her business too hard
and it works out in her favor or at least
(21:30):
her narrative is in her faure.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
I will almost say it's in the reverse.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
It's kind of like in the reverse, like I'm not
thinking when something happens like damage control, which oh my god,
like the Association of Publicists, please.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Don't kill me.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
I'm not thinking like, oh my god, I need to
get in crisis control, because I think what you build
from the beginning, in the tone you set with your
client in terms of authenticity, is what carries you through
those moments. Because when those moments happen, I don't have
to jump into damage control because we've been who we
(22:03):
are from the beginning. She's been authentic in who she
is from the beginning. She's been unapologetic and unfiltered from
the beginning. So it really sometimes in a lot of
these moments just doubles down on who she's always shown
up as so I think it's really in the opposite
for me, Like I'm not in that moment. Of course,
if it's absolutely crazy, let's talk through it, let's figure
it out. But it's not a lot of like spinning
(22:26):
of the narrative and coming up with things that may
not necessarily be true to help say faced like and
I love that she's just a woman that she just
stands on her shit, Like damn, I did say that
and I fucked up, but you know, yeah, fuck it.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
So do you feel with your pr background, right, do
you feel that all publicity is good publicity?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
I understand it, I understand what it means, but I
still I do still feel like things can be harmful,
Like unless all you care about is the attention, that's
the advantage of you know, everything is publicity.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
But if you truly care about.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
A brand that's going to build value and be valuable
X amount of years from now, then you should care
about You do have to care about what could possibly
be harmful.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
And I think a lot of times for her, she
gets this backlash up.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
You don't have to explain everything, you don't need to
say everything, And I think there are some times that
I'm kind of like.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I feel like we could have not said something, But
I also feel like I love that she feels the
need to set the record straight.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
So that way, when a conversation does come up with
a potential brand partner or you know, a potential partner
just in business, or you know, what have you, it's like,
I made sure to clear my name and set the
record straight, and if what I'm saying is not true,
you prove to me that it's not true. And I
feel like she calls a lot of people's bluff and
she makes sure to stand on exactly what she thinks
(23:57):
and how she feels, and sometimes that comes out and
Instagram comments or tweets or what have you. But you know,
I don't think that all publicity is good publicity. I
think that all publicity is attention. But all attention is
not good attention.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So sometimes don't know the difference. Bad things about you
and it's like, damn, she got mentioned a million.
Speaker 7 (24:18):
Times and out right, but it's like what is she
getting mentioned for? You know, at the end of the day,
especially if it's something that defames your character, it's one thing.
If it's like if it's about something frivolous like wardrobe
or a rumor, like a surface you know, gossip topic,
but something that defames your character and just your moral compass,
(24:41):
Like those still have real repercussions. A lot of people
think that no one has any sort of principle anymore
when it comes to these businesses. Everybody just wants a name.
They just want a celebrity. You know, they'll pay for no,
Like there's still moral clauses and contracts. There are still
people that have principles and they want to know how
you show up as a person. So if you are
(25:02):
defaming who I am and my character which could possibly
stand in the way or intervene or interfere with what
I'm building, then I'm set the record.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Straates that like how do these slations headlines hurt or
help deals with corporate brands?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I mean.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
They they do hurt, right, especially if it's a lot
of brands. The brand partnerships go deeper than just the money,
Like what's the upfront guarantee? Like how are we structuring
this partnership? Like there's still compliance at the end of
the day. They want A lot of brands still want
to know this is a decent person. They show up
(25:40):
as a decent person, and when they go out into
the space or in the marketplace to represent my brand
or my company, they can be trusted, right because they've
obviously spent millions of dollars in resources and manpower to
build whatever it is that they're building, and they don't
want to compromise that. So a salacious headline. If you
think about press, right, there's never a time where a
headline will go up about a particular person or topic
(26:03):
and they don't end that article recount every other thing
that is attached to that person. So and also, right
before this happened, such and such was supposed to sign
a deal or is signing a deal with this company.
So now you're you know, if I'm a publicist for
this brand and I'm getting these Google alerts, this person
who I'm supposed to be doing business with is now
showing up in my alerts in correlation to the name
(26:24):
of my brand or my company in a terrible way.
So to your point, even earlier, is all press good press.
That's not good press for them, especially depending on whatever
that brand is built upon. If their geared towards mothers
or their geared towards a certain type of audience, and
that headline is either prejudiced or hurtful against that audience.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
That's not good press.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
You know, want to say what I'm saying, So, I
mean salacious headlines do you know come with a certain
level of damage when you're building outside of just your
self brand and most talent, if they're smart, they're building
a brand of their own so that they can.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
Collaborate and partner with other companies and other brands.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How do you decide when an artist should lean into
controversy versus when they should fall.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Back leaning into controversy? I think it depends what we're considering.
Is if what we're considering controversy it's something that is
authentic or true to the person, then you lean in
because it's who you are.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Right. If the controversy is centered around.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
Something negative or counterproductive, something that if it continues in
the press cycle, will continue to hurt the brand or
hurt the name, then you lean out of it. But
I'm just I've been so big and you know, obviously
Cardi played a really big role in this that coming
into this industry ten years ago, there were so many
people that said, if you team up with her and
put your name next to her. You're gonna box yourself in.
(27:55):
You'll only be able to represent people that's urban. You
guys won't make it past love and hip hop like
that was that way.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Would literally give.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Y'all clothes for her. Remember y'all were trying to think
she was loving hip hop was about the hat thing
y'all were trying to startle her. They woudn't even give
y'all clothes.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
Yeah, we didn't have a budget for a stylist at
the time, and we were just kind of figuring out
per project with hair and makeup. So I was literally googling,
like how to ask for wardrobe from brands.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
So I would go out.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I would get to New York early, pull up the
Turnpike and go to all these different boutiques and try
to pull and this one boutique said like, she's not
our girl, Like this doesn't represent who our woman is.
And years later, obviously it's like, hey, we have these clothes,
we want her to wear them, like and you know,
then how do you proceed with that? Well, that's a
colin conversation. I've learned my scope and my boundaries, but
(28:44):
you know, like that's a wardrobe conversation.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
But at the same time, you know, maybe be a
little petty.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Sometimes, you know, right, Cardi is an interesting case study
for me because I'm like, if you couldn't see Cardi coming,
you had no vision. I thought Cardi was a suic
doll from the day I in what But you just
knew this girl is going to be a stop absolutely.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
I mean, some people are programmed to think that the
only way to success is the easiest path to success,
which is something that is easy to digest and easy
to package, and that for them is.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
The selling point.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
Oh, I can easily package them. I know what kind
of clothes to put on them, do their hair, put
them here, put them there, get them a deal here
like that. For me, some people think that that's just
the easiest path to success. But I still don't know
necessarily what it is in that moment where it was
just like this is to me more relatable and just
more people are behind the eight ball than they are
(29:40):
in front of it. So if you can't build every
single brand on on this idea that this is a
fantasy life, or this is a lifestyle you can't have,
or this is a person you can't sit with or
you can't hang out with, like we're in a day
and age now when we saw it early, like people
want to see themselves and the people that they support
or the people that they listened to. And even with
(30:03):
Fifth and Freedom, we recently signed our first overall management
act season four, which is Thank You. So there's a
Netflix show that's out right now called Building the Band.
It's a singing It was a singing show, not a
competition necessarily, but kind of where they Basically it was
(30:23):
set up like Love Island, so all of the contestants
started off inside of a pod. You couldn't see anyone else,
so you had to pick your band member based on
the sound of their voice, how well they sung, or
you know, only only what you could hear, not what
you could see. So you formed your band in that way,
and then you were at the you know, I forget
maybe the second or third episode you were revealed to
(30:46):
your other band members. So I was in Turks and
we decided not to go to dinner that night. We
binge watched this show on Netflix, and I immediately fell
in love with this group because they were so different.
Each and every group member represents someone else represents a
different audience, a different type of person, and everyone thought
(31:06):
that they were gonna win. I thought they were gonna win, right,
And the winners that did win are extremely talented, beautiful girls.
And I think that the industry, and depending on who's
navigating what conversation, people are determining what is more marketable
versus what is not, and what is more marketable sometimes
gets the upper hand or the opportunity first. And I
(31:29):
DM them and I was just like, I like y'all,
I love that, and I want to work with y'all.
And my friend was just like you just DM people.
I DM people all the time, like there's no shame
in no ego when it's something that I want or
something that we want to do. And they DM me back,
maybe like two or three weeks later, and we immediately clicked.
(31:50):
And I knew that from the synergy of my relationship
with Cardi and what we built, I know that I
have a vision. I can see the same thing that
I saw like in her, I see in them. And
when I brought it to my partner Bun, he immediately
saw it too. It wasn't even a conversation of like,
I don't know it was like they're fire as hell,
(32:11):
Like we want to work with them and I want
to use every network and resource I have to help
to help build them out.
Speaker 8 (32:18):
So I think that is so dope. Has that ever
been a thing, though? Have you ever said, look, Budden,
it's why I brought him to your partner? And he's like,
has he ever disagreed about any talent that you wanted
to I don't know.
Speaker 6 (32:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Have you ever disagreed about talent?
Speaker 7 (32:36):
It's more or less like I think he's super compromising
when it comes to me, and I'm like, oh, I
have this vision, but then like I'm not as and
that's why it's a partnership. And there's a balance, right
because I'm way more like brand center, brand focused building
out you know, the creative vision, the brandy and a identity.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
He's like more on the music side in terms of
like the ear and like seeing the talent. So it's
like I'm very.
Speaker 7 (33:02):
Like there's you know, you have your rap, you have
your and sometimes I'm just like and I'm like super
millennial like so like the new rap and the new
like the TikTok phase and everything. I'm like sometimes I'm
just not with it. But he's like, no, I'm telling you, like,
give it a year. And I will say every time
he's ever said that, like a year is passed and
he's like, see, I told you, like this is you know,
(33:24):
So he has his finger definitely more on the polls.
But you know, when it came to season four, we
were like completely aligned, like we want to represent them and.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
You know, because you have a partner you can trust. Though, Yeah,
now you get your name, Patience.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, did your mom tell you why she names
you that?
Speaker 7 (33:43):
I think when I asked her she says something to
the effect of, like with everything that was happening in
the room at the time, she was yelling out for
like or she was saying she needed patients or something.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Because I was supposed to be Alexis was supposed to No,
she didn't question always.
Speaker 8 (34:11):
I'm got a question because I don't know why they
take digs at this girl, like they know they don't
nobody know father listen.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
So this is another PR question right now.
Speaker 8 (34:21):
You hear about this a lot, but do people really
put like do publics really put celebrities together as PR
stunts like couples? Like is it like a I'm like
some couples, they're gonna dog me out in her Facebook
group chat. But there are people that still believe that
(34:43):
they need stunts to help drive an album or release
or build engagement on social media. And I personally feel
like if you need a stunt like that, there's something
else missing or lacking, like you to put someone.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
I've never done it. I never thought it was real.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Some people do.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I mean, there are some people that are like, we
need a good stunt, we need something that's gonna drive
a conversation, especially if people feel like they're losing momentum
or they're not being talked about enough. Like there are
people that not everybody, but there are people that still
practice that.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
Jesus Christy.
Speaker 8 (35:25):
I remember they were saying it about money bag Yo
and Megnae Stallion, and they were both hot at that time,
so I didn't feel like that was one that they
could have said that about.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
But that's that was like in conversations.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I'm like, they both got their peaks.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Why would that have to happen?
Speaker 8 (35:41):
And I just never thought it was real, But you
hear about those things and now I got a real
live person would have publicists background.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
And I just wanted to know I have a question
for you. I guess some people would ask, like everybody can't.
Everybody's story doesn't end up like Cardi B's. So when
a person comes to you there knew how do you
take them from zero to one hundred and what happens
if it doesn't work?
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Nine times out of ten, I don't take on many
new clients. I think early on it was like there
was this level of like high energy and momentum, and
people were reaching out like I want to work with you,
and I'm like, yeah, like let's do it, Like I
want to build my roster, and I thought that quantity
is what I needed in terms of like building a
really successful agency. But once I reached a place of
(36:27):
like more maturity and understanding and experience, you really want
to build with the person that And everyone doesn't get
the opportunity to do that because some people, you know,
they switch up, they change, but you really want to
build with the person that's turning the lights on for you.
A lot of a lot of celebrities and people of
you know, people with public profiles, what.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Have you, they don't.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
They don't value their team in a way where they
feel like credit is always due, or they feel like
they want to share with the world. These are the
people that are helping me build. From the very beginning,
there was never any There was never any like, there
was no energy that was like I don't want to
I don't want people to know who works with me
(37:12):
right like, And I think too. That's why a lot
of people will say like I pioneered like this shift
in the PR industry because the beginning there are still
Facebook groups patients because they used to feel like people
just knew her too much or she was trying to
be known too much.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
But Cardi always platform patients a lot talked about and
also I think there was a lot of times where
you were all she had. We would see you with her,
so we we wanted to know who you were.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
By the way, I grew up a school.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
Publishers were mad about that.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't know why, because that's the old school way
of doing thing. Remember Lizzie Grumman, she had a whole
TV show on MTV.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
And she was a public.
Speaker 7 (37:47):
Heley patron is how it is why I wanted to
be a publicist. It was her show on Bravo kel
On Earth that I was like, oh, like these are
the people that help the famous people either be famous,
get famous, stay famous, Like these are the brains, these
are the you know, the the people that are making
it happen. But I think early on, and my personal
opinion is that where people can't do is what drives
(38:11):
that like rhetoric around just like hate, like you hate
what someone else is doing because you can't show up
in the same way that they're showing them. People that
can do, people that can't criticize exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
And I do feel like that's where a lot of
it came from.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Like, well, you know, I wouldn't necessarily always wear black
to a carpet, but I also wouldn't be competing with
my client. But it's just like I don't want to
wear black, like you know what I mean, Like why
do I have to fall into this idea of being
a shadow that moves this person around? Because even when
I was younger and I look at the people. I
was watching Belly the other day and I'm looking at
(38:44):
the credits now and I'm like, you don't know that
there were it was this mirage of people that was
making they were making all of these these things happen,
and making your favorite artists be your favorite artist. And
that's also why, you know, when we were younger, you
didn't put being a publicist or a manager, or a
stylist or a video director on your list of things
(39:07):
you wanted to be when you grew up, because there
was no representation of that. It was just here's the star,
and the star is the star because they're a star.
And now as you've gotten older and people are giving
you purviews into all of the different pieces that make
these things happen, I think that why would you be
mad at that? Because now we've only created a conversation
for someone who thought they were limited to only wanting
(39:29):
to do a certain you know, certain careers or take
certain career paths. Now their eyes are open to what
is really possible in a world full of creativity and.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Music and entertainment.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
So, I mean a lot of people were definitely mad
at that, But I think that also came from being
with a person who was building in a celebrity space
that was also not your average celebrity. She platformed everyone
on her team, you know, she helped and everyone obviously
was already naturally talented. And I do feel like what
is for you is for you, And I feel like
we all would have ended up somewhere on a path
(40:05):
of success in what we were doing, but she helped
fuel that from not shielding us from the world but
saying like this, who's getting me dressed? This is my girl,
this is whomever, and allowing us to sit at so
many different tables and be a part of so many
different conversations. Conversations is what put me in a position
to be able to build outside of where I thought
(40:25):
I wanted to go. I only thought I wanted to
be a publicist whole time. I'm a I'm an innovator, manager,
creative director. Right, So yeah, I don't know how any other.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
So artists want to connect with fifferent freedom. How do
they do that? And I love what y'all talk.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
You said you want to empower authentic talent, provide tools
for financial literacy, mental wellness, and ownership opportunity.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, a lot of management companies aren't looking to do that.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
For the time now.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
They want their talent to show up and produce a
really quality, timeless product, music or whatever the product is,
Yet their mental wellness is left to the wayside. You
can't show up if you're not here, and you can't
show up if you're not here. Like a lot of
people are lost from just a mind, body and soul POV.
(41:10):
But they're still being sent call sheets to show up
at four am and get your glam done. But they're lost,
or they're empty, or they need someone to talk to.
So I feel like, if anything, when I just think
of things and a logistic you know, logis koay, And
we were thinking about what services to provide.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
I want my talent.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
We want our talent to always show up as their
best sales first and then they'll create their best product,
so mental wellness and then also you know, the equitable opportunities.
A lot early on in our career was all these
one off partnerships. Oh we got a bag for you,
we got a million dollars for you, right, and back
then it's like we young, we brown and black.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Million dollars is a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (41:53):
But as you get older and you start to really
you know, break down and try to understand how does
all this work? Like where did you even come up
with that number? And it's based on what they see
your value, and nine times out of ten they're gonna
pay you less than what your value for so, I
teamed up with a banker during the pandemic and he
started to flip the deals inside out to show me
(42:13):
that this is how much media value and brand value
your talent gave this company. This amount should have been
this amount. So then understanding that it is like, not
only should we be getting upfront guaranteed, we should be
looking for equity and ownership because we're driving a lot
of the a lot of these brands, we're driving their
valuation through the roof and we're not getting anything on
(42:34):
the exit. So that's when we started really talking about
what to build, you know, what we want that legacy
to be, what we want that company to be. And
that's what led into the joint venture with Revolving Forward
for Cardial So our partners a Revolving Forward, we're building
out a space in the fashion category and in the
beauty category. And maybe November of two, almost two years ago,
(43:00):
me and Cardi were on the phone. We pretty much
talk every single day all day, and we were just
talking about the opportunities that were on the table at
the moment, but what she really really wanted and she's like,
I want my mogul moment. I know that the value
that I've given these brands that I've worked with, I
need to be putting that into my company.
Speaker 5 (43:18):
I want that for me.
Speaker 7 (43:20):
And I asked her like, okay, so how do you
want to do this? And you know, she was like,
go find me the partners. And I immediately like literally
hung up the phone, and I'm thinking through all of
my contacts, like who can we partner with?
Speaker 5 (43:34):
Who can we partner with?
Speaker 7 (43:34):
Because I also understand my talent enough to know and
understand her bandwidth enough to know that we're not in
a space to.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
Design fulfilled deliver like we need partners.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
That can carry a lot of the weight and their
experience and they're resourceful, and then she can show up
and do what she does. And one thing that she's
always done for me is put me in a position
of power within her organizations and empower me to mitigate
those conversations and build in that way. So I was thinking,
and I started looking up recent IPOs and Revolve had
(44:07):
just gone public, taken their company public, and I think
their valuation at the time was between two or three billion.
And I remember there was someone that I knew from
my publicist days that was connected shout out to Adam
and Jen and Walker and Drous they represent Revolve, and
they connected me and maybe within two weeks, I had
lunch with the CMO at the Beverly Hills Hotel and
I pitched this idea that I had of them partnering,
(44:31):
not an influencer, not an ambassadorship, like we want to
come together and build a completely separate entity from Revolved
and from whatever else we're doing. And it took us
about a year and a half and now Cardi is
co founder and partners with the owners of Revolve, Michael Minte, Risa,
Mike Kaye, and we built a joint venture where she
(44:54):
has a large ownership and what will be two companies
and two different categ goryes. So that again she don't
ever want it. And I'm not saying she's not Bartigang,
Please don't drag me. She never puts out another album
after September nineteen. Make sure you guys, pre saved am
I the drama.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
She would have built.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
We would have built this equitable foundation that you know
she can do what she wants when she wants.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I do want to ask you, I never asked Cardy
this season, why didn't she do the movie with Parama.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
Was it the Assistant Living movie?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
It was whatever, it was a movie that she she
was supposed to do it in like a week of
film and she pulled out, like because.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I always felt like acting was a natural progression.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
Yeah. Yeah, she's I mean literally like, yes, she is
the drama in all of the ways, like in the
best ways. So she you know, I think one thing
about it is she knows how to make hard decisions
and have hard conversations. She wasn't in a space where
she was ready to deliver in that way. I don't
(45:56):
think she was there mentally. I think she maybe didn't
feel like and I'm just you know from what I know.
And one thing about Carti is she always wants to
be the absolute best in whatever she's doing. Like she
is such a competitor in that way, and she's so
driven in that way that I think she evaluated what
was in front of her and said, am I gonna
(46:17):
be able to show up and do my absolute best?
Speaker 5 (46:19):
No?
Speaker 7 (46:19):
And most people would have just done it anyway because
they would have been afraid of letting people down.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
But she's never She's never.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Afraid of having the hard conversation or letting people down,
and I think that's really kind of what it came
down to. But she is segueing into TV and film
this year and next year. We're working on a few
different projects, but she's definitely pulling her talents over to
the TV and film side and even the you know,
an executive producer side.
Speaker 8 (46:44):
So I love all things Cardi, I mean, dug right,
But I love even more hearing you talk about how
you challenged yourself doing these things like that, Like you're
just talking about the partnership with Forward and Revolve, Like
if that wouldn't have had and if you didn't challenge yourself,
that wouldn't have happened. None of this would You wouldn't
be here if you didn't just say, if you if
(47:06):
you gave up one.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
Day, like just that girl from Delaware, not car you know,
like you. I love that this is such a self
mad story. Yeah, I mean I could definitely, Yes. I
mean it's really dope too.
Speaker 7 (47:20):
Like Lauren, we grew up together, like we were going
to parties in high school, and like Charlemagne has been
someone that's seen our journey from the absolute, very very beginning.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
So it's just like they could. I love that there
are witnesses.
Speaker 7 (47:35):
To this journey that know it wasn't overnight, and that
also no, like I don't I don't really care what
people think about me, but I do want them to know,
like this has always been me. Like there's never been
a time in my life where I said I can't
have or I don't want to dream of this because
it'll be hard to get. And I do have to
like give a lot of that credit to my mother,
(47:56):
because the way that you are brought up and what
is instilled in you from the beginning in your household
is what you will carry now. I believe that I
was who I was at my core from the day
that I was born. But I do believe that my
mother had She's never made me feel like you can't
have what you want. I wanted to ice skate when
I was five. She bought me ice skates. I did
a few lessons. I wanted to tap dance. I went
(48:18):
to perform an arts school for acting and singing. I
wanted to leave and go to a regular high school
because I saw true life I'm a black cheerleader and said,
I want to go to regular high school and I
want to be a cheerleader for the football team, like
I want to go to Europe. There was never a
moment where she ever made me feel like what it
is you want you can't have. And I think just
carrying that through is like, if it's here for us
(48:40):
to see it, it's here for us to have it,
and God won't show you nothing you can't have.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
And I just live by that.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So man, thank you for coming patients.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
We ain't gonna never beat the Cardi brand manager.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Even Gratua, Fifth and Freedom, those artists are gonna be talent,
gonna be lucky.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
How did they reach out? Do you even want them to?
Speaker 7 (49:09):
Yeah, they could definitely reach us. We have Fifth in
Freedom on Instagram. You can reach out. I'm very We're
very active on our Instagram and obviously you know you
can see the services and things that we provide.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Are you looking for something in particular right now?
Speaker 5 (49:25):
I don't think we're ever looking for something in particular.
It really is just a field thing. Like we have
a really, really.
Speaker 7 (49:31):
Dope emerging artist that's coming out of Delaware, Billy Bird,
who we've been working with for a few years.
Speaker 5 (49:36):
But now we're even we're in a better position and
have a lot more.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
There's a lot more opportunity in like building her out,
because breaking artists out of very small markets is very difficult.
But she's so talented, she's so We're all like, so
I don't think we're really looking for anything, but we're
also not looking. So not do with that information, which
you will, his foster, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Hold up every day I wake up, Pack your ass
up the breakfast club.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You'll finish for y'all. Done.
Speaker 5 (50:09):
H
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Every day, Up we click yours up the breakfast Club
fish for y'all done morning. Everybody's the j n V.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Jess hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are the breakfast Club.
Law La Rosa is here as well. We got a
special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, she's the only
other person from Delaware that I know. You know, you know,
you know Joe Biden President Joe Body, Yes.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I know him as well.
Speaker 5 (00:24):
And you know, as Patience, what the FuG Patience.
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Ladies, and you know what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm about you, you know on imagine every players she
says in Patience, what the fuck when she's about to,
I guess do something she's not supposed to with Patience.
So she said, Patience be like, yeah, when when Carty's
about to do something she's not supposed to be, I
guess you pop up in her mind, like.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
CARDI what Patience is the founder and CEO of Cream Labs.
But you know she's behind you know some of the biggest.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Artists rollouts in hip hop?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Correct, right?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And you've been with Cardis since they one?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah? Wow, yes, ten years as of said Timber of
this year. Wow.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But let's start that. How did you meet Cardy and
how did you get on part of her team?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:05):
I love this story.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
So when I had my son, I decided not to
go back and work for Hurts. I was renting cars Hurts.
After I graduated college, I ended up having to rent cars.
There were no jobs. So I decided to open up
a salon in Wilmington called Victated the salon with my
tax refund money.
Speaker 6 (01:27):
I've been so for instance, day when we was in
there doing all the f I was in the photo shit.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Continue on, you know what.
Speaker 7 (01:35):
So basically I was, you know, just operating in the salon.
But I opened the salon because I always wanted to
be a publicist. So I'm like, I'm going to use
my stylist as like my case studies my clients while
I self teach myself right, so I would look for
opportunities for them outside of the booth was like my
selling point. So fast forward maybe four years. My partner
(01:56):
actually who's here. He was bringing a lot of talent
and celebrities to Wilmington, and we're a very very small market,
so there's not a ton of talent that comes in
and out of Wilmington, especially because we're so close to Philly,
so he would throw live events. There were a ton
of different events and talent and celebrities that you know,
he would bring out. So my stylists were telling me, Hey,
(02:19):
this girl named Carti is coming to Delaware, She's coming
to dance.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
We want to do her hair and makeup.
Speaker 7 (02:24):
I didn't follow her at the time, but I, you know,
I followed their lead, and I reached out to Bunn
and asked him, you know, would you mind putting in
a word with Cardi and her management.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
You know, we'll do her hair and her makeup at
no cost.
Speaker 7 (02:36):
So he followed through and he made the connection, the
very first connection between myself and Cardi. And she pulled
up with her manager at the time and a pt cruiser.
She had this orange wig on, yes.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Cruiser. This was so early on.
Speaker 7 (02:54):
This was like literally like before love and hip hop
are any So yeah, she pulled up, she got her
hair and makeup done, and she was just like, you
want to come to the club with me? And I'm like, oh,
you know, I got a sitter, why not. So we
go to the club and she gets dressed. She asked
(03:16):
me to help me pick her money up while she's dancing,
We order some wings, We go our separate ways.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
At the end of the night.
Speaker 7 (03:22):
And about maybe a month or two later, I had
started filling out internship applications because I was just like,
I'm twenty six.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
I think I was Oh. I was like, oh my gosh,
I was twenty six, and I'm like, you know, my
son is two three at the time, I really still
want to be a publicist. I need to make a move.
Speaker 7 (03:39):
So I just started filling out all of these internship
applications for fashion week, which is kind of what segued
us into that space, and I took an internship. I
slept on my friend's couch in Newark, New Jersey, and
maybe my third day on the job, I ran into
Cardi backstage. She was walking in the Gypsy Sports show
because they want it all like internet or you know,
(04:00):
social media personalities, and she was like, oh, like, what.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Are you doing here? Are you doing hair? And I
was like, no, I'm a publicist.
Speaker 7 (04:07):
She was like, oh, I need one of those, and
I was like okay, and her and chef invited me
to dinner that night, and I walked in and they
introduced me as her new publicist.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
And that's how.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
This was before.
Speaker 7 (04:22):
We were selling makeup, watch, popping, cosmetics, a lot of everything.
The cosmetics, I'm sorry, your hair salon, Oh no no.
So as we continued to like grow and the business grew,
I you know, leveraged my what I was building with
her into an agency, which is how cream Labs came about.
(04:44):
And you know, I decided that, you know, maybe like
six years after having the salon open, I just didn't
have the capacity, where the bandwidth to do it. And
the industry and the salon, like the salon industry has
shifted so much. People wanted their own suites, their own brands.
So I just focused on building out and expanding the agency.
See but that's what you know, all of it led
up into building with Hardy.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Did you do her half for her recent court case?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
I was here for the whigs, like definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But talk about that.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
I mean, Charlayne mentioned that it's funny. But I think
even when we saw her switching wigs recently, people instantly
started remembering the first time we saw her in court
and everything was a moment when she was showing up
the court right, And you guys have been really good
about making moments from the beginning? Was Cardi always the
artist that wanted to do that? Did you have to
talk her into it? How did What was her first
moment where she's like I needed this, how I need
(05:38):
to live the rest of my career?
Speaker 7 (05:40):
Her first moment, I would say it was the week
that we met. Is the week that we decided to
work with each other, which was fashion week. And I
say that because the way that she showed up. So
once we decided, like, all right, we're gonna work together,
there was a few shows left and the last show
that normally had during fashion week was The Blonde. So
(06:02):
you know, as an intern, my job was to get
people from their black trucks to the front, you know,
to their front row seat. So I'm like, you know,
nobody really knows you outside of the personality that you
built on social media. Let's just start increasing your visibility
right away. And again I'm like self teaching myself at
this point, I'm just doing what feels right. So I
told her to come to the show, and I was
(06:23):
just gonna seat her, and I'm like, just come and
just look like you belong. Like she shows up in
a turban these like wooden nipple pasties and like a
flared bell bottom pant, and everybody was just like if
they didn't know who she was, they wanted to know
who she was. And I just set her. I just
found a spot on the front row and just set her.
(06:44):
And that told me that she was number one. She
was willing to be collaborative and trusting. It wasn't like
why I gotta do this, or I'm not really invited,
I don't want to show up. I'm not gonna always
get an invite in the very beginning. Sometimes you got
to show people why you should be invited, right, and
that does come with a risk, obviously, but she was
willing to, like bugget, She's like, Okay, where I gotta be,
(07:05):
I'm gonna show up, what I gotta wear, Okay, I'm there,
and she just went with it.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
So at that moment, I.
Speaker 7 (07:09):
Knew like she loved and wanted to leave an impression
wherever she went and really make a moment. And I
think we just always carried that same energy throughout everything
we did.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I love that because that really defines Cardy B as
a person. A lot of times people don't hear that
side of it. Charlamagne and myself. We've seen her early on,
so we've seen the grind. We've seen her eating the
McDonald's in the morning, we've seen her going to the
teen parties, and we've seen that grind and the clubs
and the strip clubs and the regular clubs and this.
So I love that story because it shows that, you know,
sometimes people are like, oh, no's that No, she deserves
(07:42):
to be here.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
She worked league absolutely against all odds, and it's great
that I was so fortunate to number one be you know,
just given the space to like, we're gonna figure this
out together. You've never been necessarily a publicist of x
amount of years, never been a superstar, Like, you're just
gonna figure this out and trust in one another's intuition,
(08:04):
in one another's vision.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
And she literally like being there to see all the nose.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
I love that I'm still in a seat to be
able to see all of those people just eat their words,
like so many people were just like it'll never happen
for her.
Speaker 8 (08:18):
I love more, particularly about your story, how you went through,
how you use the hair industry to step into.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Pr Yeah, that is so dope. Yeah, it was, I
mean living in a place like Wilmington, and Lauren knows
like where we're Delaware.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
Down wherever we go, it's like, yes, we're from Delaware,
but the community in the network is so small, it's
so limited, and to be in a space like public relations,
you have to put yourself in spaces where you can
rub elbows and kiss babies and build a network. So
I still felt like before I put myself out there,
I wanted to have enough confidence.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
And experience just from an entry level point of view.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
So looking at my stylists more like clients was really
what helped me to feel like, Okay, I got enough
confidence to walk into a space and feel like I
know how to represent people.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Even if it's on a small level.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
I feel like I had the fundamentals to represent someone
and help leverage whatever talent they have into a brand.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I didn't know that that's what I was doing.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
So early on, but now that I'm much more aware
of my capabilities than what I'm able to do, I
know that I'm able to take talent and leverage that
into a brand, a brand that is sustainable outside of
just one category.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Imagine question, there's between managing talent and managing the perception
of the talent.
Speaker 7 (09:39):
I mean, I think that that's a piece of it,
Managing the perception of the talent, because the perception is
essential to the value of the brand at the end
of the day. But managing the talent, I mean, I
think there's a lot of different aspects to managing the talent.
You have day to day, you need someone who's consistently
paying attention to the logistics, the calendar, all of the
(10:01):
things that keep everything moving.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
And then you have people that have their expertise.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
You have your music managers, you have your brand managers,
and I think managing the talent overall is just making
sure that there's consistently a strategy, there's consistently a plan,
Like I don't know if people think that it's just
we're just winging it. Like there's always a plan and
there's always a goal. There's always like we know exactly
what it is that we want to do and what
(10:25):
we want to accomplish. But I think really managing the
talent is understanding the product itself, which is what the
talent is, whether it's music, whether it's making clothes, whatever
it is, and then understanding how you create a relationship
that's engaging with that audience in a way that grows
the brand, that builds value in the brand, because at
(10:47):
the end of the day, you want to be able
to leverage that brand into something that is legacy for you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Let me ask a question, how do you decide when
somebody's a friend or when somebody's a client? Right, because
you're going to have clients to pay you for certain things.
But I'm assuming Cardi B. Is not just a client.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
She's your friend, meaning you can see that.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
But like, so if you're working with somebody and now
Cardi B Is beefing with that person, you can't work
with that person anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
But what a client is just like it's just a check.
So how do you decide that?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And if Cardi's like, you know, let's say it's not
rocking with somebody, you say, ah, well, I can't work
with that person anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
How does that work?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I mean, that's a very real thing.
Speaker 7 (11:20):
Like and I think also it's just what is your
philosophy as what is your philosophy as an entrepreneur or
a boss or whatever it is that you do, right,
And I feel like whatever your philosophy is and your
principles are, is how you show up.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
When it comes to making those type of decisions.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
And my philosophy is a lot different from other people,
Like there is no real defining line between personal and business.
Like my business is very personal, Like my business feeds
my kid, My business builds my livelihood and keeys my
livelihood and maintains a lifestyle that I like to live. Like,
so my business is very personal because you know, if
(11:56):
you compromise my business, now you're compromising the way I eat.
So when it comes to cardying any other client, and
anyone can tell you wherever there are boundaries or there's
an opposition, or someone that you know has done something
in a way that not only makes them feel away,
but has messed with their business and their livelihood, I
(12:18):
could never do business with you.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, And that's just what it is.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Like. I think some people try to convince themselves that
it's okay because it's just business. But there is no
way that you don't have any emotional attachment or personal
relationship with somebody that you go into a conference room
or on a conference call every day and fight.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
For them to eat.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
We got to have a personal relationship that doesn't turn
off when I decide I want to take another check
from somebody that doesn't align with you, Like, we got
to be on the same side for this to work.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
Yeah, do you guys generally only manage artists or is
it actresses?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
It's actress.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
We're not specific to artists or the company that we've
recently announced and built Fifth and Freedom. It's not just
specific to artists. It's just specific to talent, but talent
that is talent that I can see true value in. Like,
because one of the main things about Fifth and Freedom
is that it's a new way of management, and it's
(13:15):
a new way of looking at talent where some people
are just more reactive. They're waiting on an email, they're
waiting for a deal, they're waiting to respond. Like it's
about being proactive but also making sure that we're not
limiting the talent to this one category. That we're building
a brand that can sustain over years without necessarily having
to be active in one category. So it's about like
(13:35):
building legacy, equitable opportunities, like joint ventures, things that you know,
at the end of the day, they'll have something to
pass down or they'll have something to fall back on.
Because everybody doesn't whether you're an artist, whether you're an influencer,
you may not want to make content every single day.
Once you breach a certain point, it gets tiring. You
may not be inspired. You may not be ready to
(13:56):
drop a project every other month to meet a certain
goal or drop a single right, but how are you
sustaining in between time? I think that comes from like
building real brand value, so that way you can, you know,
build a true legacy.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
How do you deal with somebody like Lauren? First of all,
I'm no serious, right because you know Lauren from Delaware?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
But she thinks to ask your question she's from Delaware.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
No, I want to know how do you deal with her?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So, meaning you know she's a she's gonna poke the bell,
She's gonna find out the story. But that's your client, right,
and so she's gonna call you and say I just
heard this, but you don't want the story out, or
maybe the story is wrong. In most cases you can
just say in the middle finger keep it moving. But
now with her, and I've heard her call you mad times,
mad time?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
So how do you deal with somebody that's a friend
but you have a client and he can't hold water
for nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Right?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
You so you ask anything that's wrong.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But like I said, so, how do you deal with like,
you know, because you have relationship for TMZ, these blocks,
how do you deal with that?
Speaker 7 (15:05):
I mean, I think like I'm just real big on
like whoever I'm dealing with on a level like that,
you're calling me directly and we're having conversations about things
that are pertaining to clients. Like we already have a
level of trust there and a level of respect because
most people will send out and I was a publicist
years ago. I am no longer the publicist for everyone
(15:26):
that is.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Still mentioning.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Labs. What's your title?
Speaker 7 (15:32):
I'm also the co founder in Fifth and Freedom with
my partner, But but I'm also I'm the brand Ford Carti.
I'm her brand manager and her creative director. Yes, so
at the end of the day, I work across her
entire business at the end of the day because again
like the longest standing member of her you know, of
(15:52):
her group, of her of her team. So I'm involved
in every single conversation at the end of the day
because we built that currency of trust there. But no,
I was a publicist and that was you know what
got me into the spaces that I needed to be in.
But as I understood what I'm truly capable of, just
(16:13):
outside of helping to control narratives and stories.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So you got old pictures of Lauren to make sure
she don't putting that now.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
You used to share Airbnb in l A and go
out to like awards. We weren't. We didn't have a
name at the time, so we weren't on the list.
So we were just Fana. We've been We've been friends
for well over well over a decade.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
We grew up together. So but how I deal to
your to answer your question? I think it's just already
a level of respect there. So she's not gonna she's
gonna tell me what it is. This is the information
I have. What do you want to do with that information?
Speaker 6 (16:53):
Right?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
And there's two things for me. Are you on the
record or are we off the record? Number One?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
You always on the record, Lauren.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Journalists guys really do.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
So it's a lot of times when I call her
too and be like completely before she even starts.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Completely you know what I mean. Yeah, So it's like
I'm going to approach I don't.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
I think I do a very good job, Like I
don't blur the lines between what I do as a
professional and who I am as a person, because they're
pretty much aligned. Like who I am as a professional
is how I show up as a person. So how
I deal with her is just in any friendship. Let's
be transparent, Let's be honest with each other. This is
what I have to say. This is what I'm not
(17:36):
gonna say hypothetically. I'm gonna say this, and you know,
we just work through it together. And I don't ever
think for a moment I'm never going to have a
conversation with somebody that got a second guest, is this information?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Want to leave this phone call?
Speaker 7 (17:50):
So it's like I think, because of our friendship and
the trust and the history that we have there, we
can do good business.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So how do you decide what's best for your client?
What's best for your girl? And what I mean by
that is like, you know, you see, like somebody like
Lauren in the position she's in, she's growing, like you know,
she's building her name. You might have some information that
you could be I could get the People magazine, but
if I give it them law and it's really gonna
help brown girl grinding.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So what are you do in those situations.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
I think it depends on the situation.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
For wherever there's controversy, drama, no punt intended, right, that's
not ever. That's never been a part of my process
or my systems, Like I'm never feeding. I know there's
people that think like, oh, this is a pr stunt,
like never feeding or setting up a stunt, right, But
in terms of like exclusives, like oh, we have this
(18:36):
like great information or something we want to share about
the album, Like of course, like I would want, you know,
my friend to have the exclusive, but when it comes
to the client, it's just like you if you love
me and you say you're my friend, then you respect
the fact that I have to do what's best for
my client and that's just you know. And if that
level of understanding is just not there, then we're truly
(18:58):
we're not friends.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
And we can't do business.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
I will say, there's been plenty of time. And also too,
I think it's like a trade thing because like for me,
it's like okay, maybe if I know this or you're
just giving me this, But then your client whoever, is like,
we want to go another place with it. I'm like
I talk to her all the time, she'll call me
about something else. There's been many times where I couldn't
do something, but on the back end, it's like, ooh,
I might get another story that's bigger, or you might
come to me and say, hey, this is announcing Like
(19:20):
so there, it's a transactional thing as well for me.
But I want to talk about when, like so Carti says,
patients be like what the fuck. There's a lot of
moments because y'all don't stage these things, but people always
think things are stage. So like the Harper's Bizarre Party moment,
the Nicki Minaj Cardi b the fight at the Harper's
Bazar party.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
First, well, she didn't even hear the she wasn't there
when when Cardi made the record, because you heard it
when when.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Cardi played for you, you were surprised when she when
she said, yeah.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
I wasn't I wasn't there for when she when she
recorded the record, like what the fuck? In real life,
I was just like taken back because.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Why did it have to be me?
Speaker 7 (19:59):
But I mean, I guess it only makes sense because
a lot of people probably think that there's this this
yes man complex and our relationship and it's the complete opposite,
like I'm gonna always have her back right, wrong, oring different,
like there's never gonna be a time that I was
standing down from that. But at the same time, where
we don't agree, we don't agree respectfully right, and we
(20:21):
handle that like adults, and I think we do a
really good job of like we know that our loyalty
as like friends and basically sisters is you know, the
core of our relationship. But it really doesn't blur the
lines when it comes to like being direct about you know,
business decisions or just you know, life decisions.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
We don't always see eye to eye. So there are
plenty of times that she does.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
And I don't know why the Internet thinks that I've
like have these strings and control what she says or
what she can do, Like I think her fans kind
of have this idea like take her phone, make her
get off the internet, like it's a grown ass woman,
Like she's the one do and say as she please,
and yes, from time to time she asked for suggestions
or advisement, But there are some times where she jumps
(21:05):
out the window and she do and say whatever she
want to do, and I am looking like what the fuck?
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Like so like the talent that's coming into fitting freedom.
I think what I was going to ask was, there's
a lot of those moments in their big because of
who she is and become of her personality. How do
you in real time strategize and figure it out where
it doesn't hit her brand or her business too hard
and it works out in her favor or at least
(21:30):
her narrative is in her faure.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
I will almost say it's in the reverse.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
It's kind of like in the reverse, like I'm not
thinking when something happens like damage control, which oh my god,
like the Association of Publicists, please.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Don't kill me.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
I'm not thinking like, oh my god, I need to
get in crisis control, because I think what you build
from the beginning, in the tone you set with your
client in terms of authenticity, is what carries you through
those moments. Because when those moments happen, I don't have
to jump into damage control because we've been who we
(22:03):
are from the beginning. She's been authentic in who she
is from the beginning. She's been unapologetic and unfiltered from
the beginning. So it really sometimes in a lot of
these moments just doubles down on who she's always shown
up as so I think it's really in the opposite
for me, Like I'm not in that moment. Of course,
if it's absolutely crazy, let's talk through it, let's figure
it out. But it's not a lot of like spinning
(22:26):
of the narrative and coming up with things that may
not necessarily be true to help say faced like and
I love that she's just a woman that she just
stands on her shit, Like damn, I did say that
and I fucked up, but you know, yeah, fuck it.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
So do you feel with your pr background, right, do
you feel that all publicity is good publicity?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
I understand it, I understand what it means, but I
still I do still feel like things can be harmful,
Like unless all you care about is the attention, that's
the advantage of you know, everything is publicity.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
But if you truly care about.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
A brand that's going to build value and be valuable
X amount of years from now, then you should care
about You do have to care about what could possibly
be harmful.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
And I think a lot of times for her, she
gets this backlash up.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
You don't have to explain everything, you don't need to
say everything, And I think there are some times that
I'm kind of like.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I feel like we could have not said something, But
I also feel like I love that she feels the
need to set the record straight.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
So that way, when a conversation does come up with
a potential brand partner or you know, a potential partner
just in business, or you know, what have you, it's like,
I made sure to clear my name and set the
record straight, and if what I'm saying is not true,
you prove to me that it's not true. And I
feel like she calls a lot of people's bluff and
she makes sure to stand on exactly what she thinks
(23:57):
and how she feels, and sometimes that comes out and
Instagram comments or tweets or what have you. But you know,
I don't think that all publicity is good publicity. I
think that all publicity is attention. But all attention is
not good attention.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So sometimes don't know the difference. Bad things about you
and it's like, damn, she got mentioned a million.
Speaker 7 (24:18):
Times and out right, but it's like what is she
getting mentioned for? You know, at the end of the day,
especially if it's something that defames your character, it's one thing.
If it's like if it's about something frivolous like wardrobe
or a rumor, like a surface you know, gossip topic,
but something that defames your character and just your moral compass,
(24:41):
Like those still have real repercussions. A lot of people
think that no one has any sort of principle anymore
when it comes to these businesses. Everybody just wants a name.
They just want a celebrity. You know, they'll pay for no,
Like there's still moral clauses and contracts. There are still
people that have principles and they want to know how
you show up as a person. So if you are
(25:02):
defaming who I am and my character which could possibly
stand in the way or intervene or interfere with what
I'm building, then I'm set the record.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Straates that like how do these slations headlines hurt or
help deals with corporate brands?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I mean.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
They they do hurt, right, especially if it's a lot
of brands. The brand partnerships go deeper than just the money,
Like what's the upfront guarantee? Like how are we structuring
this partnership? Like there's still compliance at the end of
the day. They want A lot of brands still want
to know this is a decent person. They show up
(25:40):
as a decent person, and when they go out into
the space or in the marketplace to represent my brand
or my company, they can be trusted, right because they've
obviously spent millions of dollars in resources and manpower to
build whatever it is that they're building, and they don't
want to compromise that. So a salacious headline. If you
think about press, right, there's never a time where a
headline will go up about a particular person or topic
(26:03):
and they don't end that article recount every other thing
that is attached to that person. So and also, right
before this happened, such and such was supposed to sign
a deal or is signing a deal with this company.
So now you're you know, if I'm a publicist for
this brand and I'm getting these Google alerts, this person
who I'm supposed to be doing business with is now
showing up in my alerts in correlation to the name
(26:24):
of my brand or my company in a terrible way.
So to your point, even earlier, is all press good press.
That's not good press for them, especially depending on whatever
that brand is built upon. If their geared towards mothers
or their geared towards a certain type of audience, and
that headline is either prejudiced or hurtful against that audience.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
That's not good press.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
You know, want to say what I'm saying, So, I
mean salacious headlines do you know come with a certain
level of damage when you're building outside of just your
self brand and most talent, if they're smart, they're building
a brand of their own so that they can.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
Collaborate and partner with other companies and other brands.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How do you decide when an artist should lean into
controversy versus when they should fall.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Back leaning into controversy? I think it depends what we're considering.
Is if what we're considering controversy it's something that is
authentic or true to the person, then you lean in
because it's who you are.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Right. If the controversy is centered around.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
Something negative or counterproductive, something that if it continues in
the press cycle, will continue to hurt the brand or
hurt the name, then you lean out of it. But
I'm just I've been so big and you know, obviously
Cardi played a really big role in this that coming
into this industry ten years ago, there were so many
people that said, if you team up with her and
put your name next to her. You're gonna box yourself in.
(27:55):
You'll only be able to represent people that's urban. You
guys won't make it past love and hip hop like
that was that way.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Would literally give.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Y'all clothes for her. Remember y'all were trying to think
she was loving hip hop was about the hat thing
y'all were trying to startle her. They woudn't even give
y'all clothes.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
Yeah, we didn't have a budget for a stylist at
the time, and we were just kind of figuring out
per project with hair and makeup. So I was literally googling,
like how to ask for wardrobe from brands.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
So I would go out.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I would get to New York early, pull up the
Turnpike and go to all these different boutiques and try
to pull and this one boutique said like, she's not
our girl, Like this doesn't represent who our woman is.
And years later, obviously it's like, hey, we have these clothes,
we want her to wear them, like and you know,
then how do you proceed with that? Well, that's a
colin conversation. I've learned my scope and my boundaries, but
(28:44):
you know, like that's a wardrobe conversation.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
But at the same time, you know, maybe be a
little petty.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Sometimes, you know, right, Cardi is an interesting case study
for me because I'm like, if you couldn't see Cardi coming,
you had no vision. I thought Cardi was a suic
doll from the day I in what But you just
knew this girl is going to be a stop absolutely.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
I mean, some people are programmed to think that the
only way to success is the easiest path to success,
which is something that is easy to digest and easy
to package, and that for them is.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
The selling point.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
Oh, I can easily package them. I know what kind
of clothes to put on them, do their hair, put
them here, put them there, get them a deal here
like that. For me, some people think that that's just
the easiest path to success. But I still don't know
necessarily what it is in that moment where it was
just like this is to me more relatable and just
more people are behind the eight ball than they are
(29:40):
in front of it. So if you can't build every
single brand on on this idea that this is a
fantasy life, or this is a lifestyle you can't have,
or this is a person you can't sit with or
you can't hang out with, like we're in a day
and age now when we saw it early, like people
want to see themselves and the people that they support
or the people that they listened to. And even with
(30:03):
Fifth and Freedom, we recently signed our first overall management
act season four, which is Thank You. So there's a
Netflix show that's out right now called Building the Band.
It's a singing It was a singing show, not a
competition necessarily, but kind of where they Basically it was
(30:23):
set up like Love Island, so all of the contestants
started off inside of a pod. You couldn't see anyone else,
so you had to pick your band member based on
the sound of their voice, how well they sung, or
you know, only only what you could hear, not what
you could see. So you formed your band in that way,
and then you were at the you know, I forget
maybe the second or third episode you were revealed to
(30:46):
your other band members. So I was in Turks and
we decided not to go to dinner that night. We
binge watched this show on Netflix, and I immediately fell
in love with this group because they were so different.
Each and every group member represents someone else represents a
different audience, a different type of person, and everyone thought
(31:06):
that they were gonna win. I thought they were gonna win, right,
And the winners that did win are extremely talented, beautiful girls.
And I think that the industry, and depending on who's
navigating what conversation, people are determining what is more marketable
versus what is not, and what is more marketable sometimes
gets the upper hand or the opportunity first. And I
(31:29):
DM them and I was just like, I like y'all,
I love that, and I want to work with y'all.
And my friend was just like you just DM people.
I DM people all the time, like there's no shame
in no ego when it's something that I want or
something that we want to do. And they DM me back,
maybe like two or three weeks later, and we immediately clicked.
(31:50):
And I knew that from the synergy of my relationship
with Cardi and what we built, I know that I
have a vision. I can see the same thing that
I saw like in her, I see in them. And
when I brought it to my partner Bun, he immediately
saw it too. It wasn't even a conversation of like,
I don't know it was like they're fire as hell,
(32:11):
Like we want to work with them and I want
to use every network and resource I have to help
to help build them out.
Speaker 8 (32:18):
So I think that is so dope. Has that ever
been a thing, though? Have you ever said, look, Budden,
it's why I brought him to your partner? And he's like,
has he ever disagreed about any talent that you wanted
to I don't know.
Speaker 6 (32:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Have you ever disagreed about talent?
Speaker 7 (32:36):
It's more or less like I think he's super compromising
when it comes to me, and I'm like, oh, I
have this vision, but then like I'm not as and
that's why it's a partnership. And there's a balance, right
because I'm way more like brand center, brand focused building
out you know, the creative vision, the brandy and a identity.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
He's like more on the music side in terms of
like the ear and like seeing the talent. So it's
like I'm very.
Speaker 7 (33:02):
Like there's you know, you have your rap, you have
your and sometimes I'm just like and I'm like super
millennial like so like the new rap and the new
like the TikTok phase and everything. I'm like sometimes I'm
just not with it. But he's like, no, I'm telling you, like,
give it a year. And I will say every time
he's ever said that, like a year is passed and
he's like, see, I told you, like this is you know,
(33:24):
So he has his finger definitely more on the polls.
But you know, when it came to season four, we
were like completely aligned, like we want to represent them and.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
You know, because you have a partner you can trust. Though, Yeah,
now you get your name, Patience.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, did your mom tell you why she names
you that?
Speaker 7 (33:43):
I think when I asked her she says something to
the effect of, like with everything that was happening in
the room at the time, she was yelling out for
like or she was saying she needed patients or something.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Because I was supposed to be Alexis was supposed to No,
she didn't question always.
Speaker 8 (34:11):
I'm got a question because I don't know why they
take digs at this girl, like they know they don't
nobody know father listen.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
So this is another PR question right now.
Speaker 8 (34:21):
You hear about this a lot, but do people really
put like do publics really put celebrities together as PR
stunts like couples? Like is it like a I'm like
some couples, they're gonna dog me out in her Facebook
group chat. But there are people that still believe that
(34:43):
they need stunts to help drive an album or release
or build engagement on social media. And I personally feel
like if you need a stunt like that, there's something
else missing or lacking, like you to put someone.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
I've never done it. I never thought it was real.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Some people do.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I mean, there are some people that are like, we
need a good stunt, we need something that's gonna drive
a conversation, especially if people feel like they're losing momentum
or they're not being talked about enough. Like there are
people that not everybody, but there are people that still
practice that.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
Jesus Christy.
Speaker 8 (35:25):
I remember they were saying it about money bag Yo
and Megnae Stallion, and they were both hot at that time,
so I didn't feel like that was one that they
could have said that about.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
But that's that was like in conversations.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I'm like, they both got their peaks.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Why would that have to happen?
Speaker 8 (35:41):
And I just never thought it was real, But you
hear about those things and now I got a real
live person would have publicists background.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
And I just wanted to know I have a question
for you. I guess some people would ask, like everybody can't.
Everybody's story doesn't end up like Cardi B's. So when
a person comes to you there knew how do you
take them from zero to one hundred and what happens
if it doesn't work?
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Nine times out of ten, I don't take on many
new clients. I think early on it was like there
was this level of like high energy and momentum, and
people were reaching out like I want to work with you,
and I'm like, yeah, like let's do it, Like I
want to build my roster, and I thought that quantity
is what I needed in terms of like building a
really successful agency. But once I reached a place of
(36:27):
like more maturity and understanding and experience, you really want
to build with the person that And everyone doesn't get
the opportunity to do that because some people, you know,
they switch up, they change, but you really want to
build with the person that's turning the lights on for you.
A lot of a lot of celebrities and people of
you know, people with public profiles, what.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Have you, they don't.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
They don't value their team in a way where they
feel like credit is always due, or they feel like
they want to share with the world. These are the
people that are helping me build. From the very beginning,
there was never any There was never any like, there
was no energy that was like I don't want to
I don't want people to know who works with me
(37:12):
right like, And I think too. That's why a lot
of people will say like I pioneered like this shift
in the PR industry because the beginning there are still
Facebook groups patients because they used to feel like people
just knew her too much or she was trying to
be known too much.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
But Cardi always platform patients a lot talked about and
also I think there was a lot of times where
you were all she had. We would see you with her,
so we we wanted to know who you were.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
By the way, I grew up a school.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
Publishers were mad about that.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't know why, because that's the old school way
of doing thing. Remember Lizzie Grumman, she had a whole
TV show on MTV.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
And she was a public.
Speaker 7 (37:47):
Heley patron is how it is why I wanted to
be a publicist. It was her show on Bravo kel
On Earth that I was like, oh, like these are
the people that help the famous people either be famous,
get famous, stay famous, Like these are the brains, these
are the you know, the the people that are making
it happen. But I think early on, and my personal
opinion is that where people can't do is what drives
(38:11):
that like rhetoric around just like hate, like you hate
what someone else is doing because you can't show up
in the same way that they're showing them. People that
can do, people that can't criticize exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
And I do feel like that's where a lot of
it came from.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Like, well, you know, I wouldn't necessarily always wear black
to a carpet, but I also wouldn't be competing with
my client. But it's just like I don't want to
wear black, like you know what I mean, Like why
do I have to fall into this idea of being
a shadow that moves this person around? Because even when
I was younger and I look at the people. I
was watching Belly the other day and I'm looking at
(38:44):
the credits now and I'm like, you don't know that
there were it was this mirage of people that was
making they were making all of these these things happen,
and making your favorite artists be your favorite artist. And
that's also why, you know, when we were younger, you
didn't put being a publicist or a manager, or a
stylist or a video director on your list of things
(39:07):
you wanted to be when you grew up, because there
was no representation of that. It was just here's the star,
and the star is the star because they're a star.
And now as you've gotten older and people are giving
you purviews into all of the different pieces that make
these things happen, I think that why would you be
mad at that? Because now we've only created a conversation
for someone who thought they were limited to only wanting
(39:29):
to do a certain you know, certain careers or take
certain career paths. Now their eyes are open to what
is really possible in a world full of creativity and.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Music and entertainment.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
So, I mean a lot of people were definitely mad
at that, But I think that also came from being
with a person who was building in a celebrity space
that was also not your average celebrity. She platformed everyone
on her team, you know, she helped and everyone obviously
was already naturally talented. And I do feel like what
is for you is for you, And I feel like
we all would have ended up somewhere on a path
(40:05):
of success in what we were doing, but she helped
fuel that from not shielding us from the world but
saying like this, who's getting me dressed? This is my girl,
this is whomever, and allowing us to sit at so
many different tables and be a part of so many
different conversations. Conversations is what put me in a position
to be able to build outside of where I thought
(40:25):
I wanted to go. I only thought I wanted to
be a publicist whole time. I'm a I'm an innovator, manager,
creative director. Right, So yeah, I don't know how any other.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
So artists want to connect with fifferent freedom. How do
they do that? And I love what y'all talk.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
You said you want to empower authentic talent, provide tools
for financial literacy, mental wellness, and ownership opportunity.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, a lot of management companies aren't looking to do that.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
For the time now.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
They want their talent to show up and produce a
really quality, timeless product, music or whatever the product is,
Yet their mental wellness is left to the wayside. You
can't show up if you're not here, and you can't
show up if you're not here. Like a lot of
people are lost from just a mind, body and soul POV.
(41:10):
But they're still being sent call sheets to show up
at four am and get your glam done. But they're lost,
or they're empty, or they need someone to talk to.
So I feel like, if anything, when I just think
of things and a logistic you know, logis koay, And
we were thinking about what services to provide.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
I want my talent.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
We want our talent to always show up as their
best sales first and then they'll create their best product,
so mental wellness and then also you know, the equitable opportunities.
A lot early on in our career was all these
one off partnerships. Oh we got a bag for you,
we got a million dollars for you, right, and back
then it's like we young, we brown and black.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Million dollars is a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (41:53):
But as you get older and you start to really
you know, break down and try to understand how does
all this work? Like where did you even come up
with that number? And it's based on what they see
your value, and nine times out of ten they're gonna
pay you less than what your value for so, I
teamed up with a banker during the pandemic and he
started to flip the deals inside out to show me
(42:13):
that this is how much media value and brand value
your talent gave this company. This amount should have been
this amount. So then understanding that it is like, not
only should we be getting upfront guaranteed, we should be
looking for equity and ownership because we're driving a lot
of the a lot of these brands, we're driving their
valuation through the roof and we're not getting anything on
(42:34):
the exit. So that's when we started really talking about
what to build, you know, what we want that legacy
to be, what we want that company to be. And
that's what led into the joint venture with Revolving Forward
for Cardial So our partners a Revolving Forward, we're building
out a space in the fashion category and in the
beauty category. And maybe November of two, almost two years ago,
(43:00):
me and Cardi were on the phone. We pretty much
talk every single day all day, and we were just
talking about the opportunities that were on the table at
the moment, but what she really really wanted and she's like,
I want my mogul moment. I know that the value
that I've given these brands that I've worked with, I
need to be putting that into my company.
Speaker 5 (43:18):
I want that for me.
Speaker 7 (43:20):
And I asked her like, okay, so how do you
want to do this? And you know, she was like,
go find me the partners. And I immediately like literally
hung up the phone, and I'm thinking through all of
my contacts, like who can we partner with?
Speaker 5 (43:34):
Who can we partner with?
Speaker 7 (43:34):
Because I also understand my talent enough to know and
understand her bandwidth enough to know that we're not in
a space to.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
Design fulfilled deliver like we need partners.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
That can carry a lot of the weight and their
experience and they're resourceful, and then she can show up
and do what she does. And one thing that she's
always done for me is put me in a position
of power within her organizations and empower me to mitigate
those conversations and build in that way. So I was thinking,
and I started looking up recent IPOs and Revolve had
(44:07):
just gone public, taken their company public, and I think
their valuation at the time was between two or three billion.
And I remember there was someone that I knew from
my publicist days that was connected shout out to Adam
and Jen and Walker and Drous they represent Revolve, and
they connected me and maybe within two weeks, I had
lunch with the CMO at the Beverly Hills Hotel and
I pitched this idea that I had of them partnering,
(44:31):
not an influencer, not an ambassadorship, like we want to
come together and build a completely separate entity from Revolved
and from whatever else we're doing. And it took us
about a year and a half and now Cardi is
co founder and partners with the owners of Revolve, Michael Minte, Risa,
Mike Kaye, and we built a joint venture where she
(44:54):
has a large ownership and what will be two companies
and two different categ goryes. So that again she don't
ever want it. And I'm not saying she's not Bartigang,
Please don't drag me. She never puts out another album
after September nineteen. Make sure you guys, pre saved am
I the drama.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
She would have built.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
We would have built this equitable foundation that you know
she can do what she wants when she wants.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I do want to ask you, I never asked Cardy
this season, why didn't she do the movie with Parama.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
Was it the Assistant Living movie?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
It was whatever, it was a movie that she she
was supposed to do it in like a week of
film and she pulled out, like because.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I always felt like acting was a natural progression.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
Yeah. Yeah, she's I mean literally like, yes, she is
the drama in all of the ways, like in the
best ways. So she you know, I think one thing
about it is she knows how to make hard decisions
and have hard conversations. She wasn't in a space where
she was ready to deliver in that way. I don't
(45:56):
think she was there mentally. I think she maybe didn't
feel like and I'm just you know from what I know.
And one thing about Carti is she always wants to
be the absolute best in whatever she's doing. Like she
is such a competitor in that way, and she's so
driven in that way that I think she evaluated what
was in front of her and said, am I gonna
(46:17):
be able to show up and do my absolute best?
Speaker 5 (46:19):
No?
Speaker 7 (46:19):
And most people would have just done it anyway because
they would have been afraid of letting people down.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
But she's never She's never.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Afraid of having the hard conversation or letting people down,
and I think that's really kind of what it came
down to. But she is segueing into TV and film
this year and next year. We're working on a few
different projects, but she's definitely pulling her talents over to
the TV and film side and even the you know,
an executive producer side.
Speaker 8 (46:44):
So I love all things Cardi, I mean, dug right,
But I love even more hearing you talk about how
you challenged yourself doing these things like that, Like you're
just talking about the partnership with Forward and Revolve, Like
if that wouldn't have had and if you didn't challenge yourself,
that wouldn't have happened. None of this would You wouldn't
be here if you didn't just say, if you if
(47:06):
you gave up one.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
Day, like just that girl from Delaware, not car you know,
like you. I love that this is such a self
mad story. Yeah, I mean I could definitely, Yes. I
mean it's really dope too.
Speaker 7 (47:20):
Like Lauren, we grew up together, like we were going
to parties in high school, and like Charlemagne has been
someone that's seen our journey from the absolute, very very beginning.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
So it's just like they could. I love that there
are witnesses.
Speaker 7 (47:35):
To this journey that know it wasn't overnight, and that
also no, like I don't I don't really care what
people think about me, but I do want them to know,
like this has always been me. Like there's never been
a time in my life where I said I can't
have or I don't want to dream of this because
it'll be hard to get. And I do have to
like give a lot of that credit to my mother,
(47:56):
because the way that you are brought up and what
is instilled in you from the beginning in your household
is what you will carry now. I believe that I
was who I was at my core from the day
that I was born. But I do believe that my
mother had She's never made me feel like you can't
have what you want. I wanted to ice skate when
I was five. She bought me ice skates. I did
a few lessons. I wanted to tap dance. I went
(48:18):
to perform an arts school for acting and singing. I
wanted to leave and go to a regular high school
because I saw true life I'm a black cheerleader and said,
I want to go to regular high school and I
want to be a cheerleader for the football team, like
I want to go to Europe. There was never a
moment where she ever made me feel like what it
is you want you can't have. And I think just
carrying that through is like, if it's here for us
(48:40):
to see it, it's here for us to have it,
and God won't show you nothing you can't have.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
And I just live by that.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So man, thank you for coming patients.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
We ain't gonna never beat the Cardi brand manager.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Even Gratua, Fifth and Freedom, those artists are gonna be talent,
gonna be lucky.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
How did they reach out? Do you even want them to?
Speaker 7 (49:09):
Yeah, they could definitely reach us. We have Fifth in
Freedom on Instagram. You can reach out. I'm very We're
very active on our Instagram and obviously you know you
can see the services and things that we provide.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Are you looking for something in particular right now?
Speaker 5 (49:25):
I don't think we're ever looking for something in particular.
It really is just a field thing. Like we have
a really, really.
Speaker 7 (49:31):
Dope emerging artist that's coming out of Delaware, Billy Bird,
who we've been working with for a few years.
Speaker 5 (49:36):
But now we're even we're in a better position and
have a lot more.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
There's a lot more opportunity in like building her out,
because breaking artists out of very small markets is very difficult.
But she's so talented, she's so We're all like, so
I don't think we're really looking for anything, but we're
also not looking. So not do with that information, which
you will, his foster, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Hold up every day I wake up, Pack your ass
up the breakfast club.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You'll finish for y'all. Done.
Speaker 5 (50:09):
H
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DJ Envy
Jess Hilarious
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