INTERVIEW: Rodney Jerkins & Jon Keith On Songwriters Hall of Fame, Michael Jackson, Music Industry Shift +More

Today on The Breakfast Club, Rodney Jerkins & Jon Keith On Songwriters Hall of Fame, Michael Jackson, Music Industry Shift. Listen For More!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Breakfast Club.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Morning.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
Everybody is the j n V. Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the Guy.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special guests
in the building, right. We got the o G, the icon,
the legend, Rodney Jerkins celebrating thirty years of Dog Child.
He's inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Congratulations, and
he also brought his new artist, John Keith.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, how are you feeling?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
First and foremost?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm good, bro, I'm good, You're good.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
Bless John Keith. No pressure.

Speaker 5 (00:31):
But Rodney has sold over five hundred million records worldwide.
He's worked with Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Brandy, Justin Bieber,
syl Sam Smith, just to name.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
No pressure, No pressure.

Speaker 6 (00:41):
Okay, easy work.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
So how are you feeling?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
First?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
And four morefore we got to get to you know,
I like to bring when we have icons and legends
like you. I like to start from the from the beginning.
Now you from Atlantic City, from Atlantic City? And how
did you get into music? What made you say I
want to be a producer?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
And then being.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
From Atlantic City, anybody from Atlantic City to tell you
it's very difficult to get out there. How did you
get out there where people started hearing your beats and
you started selling some stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:06):
My mom was a housekeeper.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
She would go and she would take other people's houses
and she would hear these little kids playing piano or
being taught. She was like, I need them. I need
this guy to teach my son. So I'm five years old.
I didn't want to play the piano, to be honest,
but my dad had a house rule. You gotta play piano.
Live under this roof, all siblings play, we all play.
I took the lessons, and probably when I was about

(01:28):
ten to eleven, I discovered like I wanted to be
a producer. I heard Michael Jackson's album and then I
started like, you know, back in the day you read
the credits. Yeah, was someone that I really admired from
Teddy Rowley on a lot of credits, and I'm like, no,
I want to do this.

Speaker 6 (01:43):
I needed to do this.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So back in the day, there was a magazine called
black Beat, and I saw an interview and it said
like it had like all the top producers, Pete Rock,
you know, everybody, and it was like, we use the
NPC to.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Make the BEATBC sixty back then, and I was.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Like, I need this, I need this, can't afford that.
My dad borrowed twelve hundred dollars off his life insurance
got the NPC for me. We're going.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Random question. How was it growing up in Atlantic City?

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Because I love Atlantic City because my daughter does a
lot of cheerleading competitions, and for some reason, when I
go out there, I just get a good piece of mind,
Like I go out there and writing all types of stuff.
How was it growing up there?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
As a job?

Speaker 6 (02:24):
It was hard.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Because there wasn't there was no outlet. There was no
studios there, there was no outlet for music. So I
did to get on New Jersey transit up, you know,
taking that too and a half half an hour bus
ride pretty much every other day just to try to
get put on. But yeah, but let me tell you
I got discovered. I got discovered by Teddy Riley at
the Impact Convention. Where was that at Blank City?

Speaker 5 (02:46):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Break that down?

Speaker 2 (02:47):
So he heard a demo that I produced. He wasn't
really into the guy singing the demo, but he was like, Yo,
this producer is dope.

Speaker 6 (02:56):
So the manager told me.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I told my dad I'm like, Dad, Teddy heard it.
We need to go see him. He's like, where's he at?
I said, well, the credits say he's in Virginia Beach,
so we gotta go to Virginia Beach. My dad was
like that's like a six hour drive. Like whatever, let's go.

Speaker 6 (03:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah. So we hop in the car, we hop in
the van, the church van because my dad's a pastor,
hopping in the church man. We go to Virginia Beach
standing in Teddy Rally. He was in his parking lot
probably for like half.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
The day now for people that don't know Teddy Rally
from Harlem, he built this huge studio in Virginia Beach
and it was beautiful. Everybody worked there, from Pharrell to
Bobby Brown to Michael Jackson.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yep. So we go there in the parking lot, were
just waiting for him to show up, and then finally
he shows up, like six seven hours later. Pull up
on him. I'm like, I'm the kid that produced. I'm
like literally fourteen years old. I'm like, you just heard
my beat. He was like that was you and I
was like yeah. He was like, come on, come in
the studio. From then, you know, rest is history, and
so now and then I'm getting inducted at Teddy Rally's

(03:55):
the one inducted me.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 7 (03:57):
So where did the famous child come from? Where did
you get that?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
I just, you know, it was really the name itself
came from the style that I felt that I was created.
I loved dark minded chords. I was I was youthful,
you know, I'm a young kids. So I kind of
took those words and played with it. But then I
just started saying I didn't know that I was really
one of the first ones, probably maybe the first one
doing a producer. I didn't know it at the time
because I was just like, I was just trying to

(04:24):
brand myself, you know, in a way, because I wasn't
the type that wanted to be like him and be
on the microphone rapping all the time, even though you know,
I could spit a little bit, but I didn't want
to do that. So I was like, how they gonna
know who did the record? So I was like child,
I was saying, and then what happened was the artist
started to say it, so like Tony Braxon sang it,
and then Whitney said it, and then Michael said it

(04:46):
and then her said it. They just started saying so
I was like, yeah, I ain't got to say no,
want let them say it.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
I love that was there like a producer beat camp
really because it was y'all. It was you for real neptunes.
There was a bunch of y'us. So I was working
in that beat camp because you had producers. You're learning
from an icon, but you' all became your own and
your own separate ways.

Speaker 6 (05:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think that's what was special about being in VA
is like Teddy's studio, Like you wanted to get into
his room and see what he was doing, right, And
when I came forelling him was already there. So I
was the one. I was the one that had to
really kind of wait for my turn because he was
already down there. And it was kind of like Teddy
was cool because he wasn't like signing nobody, so it

(05:30):
was more so just like yo, you here, let me
hear what you got. So I been there and I'm
just waiting for my shot, and then eventually he'd be like,
all right, come in, little bro, and then you press playing.
It's just like all right, cool, We're gonna get to
work and that's how it kind of happened.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
How many hits did you make back then that you
didn't get the credit.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
For I got credit for my head. I always I
always think, So it's funny you say that, though, right.
I always look at like how people do their business,
and whatever's wrong with their business, it's not gonna be
wrong with my business. So there's a lot of ms
stakes that I would see in the industry, and I'd
be like, y'all allow that to happen.

Speaker 6 (06:04):
That can't happen to me, you know.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And and I've learned to play in a position affair
with my artists. I've learned to be I want to be.
I want to be one of those dudes where when
you know, like, oh you did the deal with him,
you got a good deal, you know. And and a
lot of producers now that's blown up, came from my camp,
d Mile Tommy Brown, like these are like the people

(06:29):
who did the mau just did. I think every Bruno
Mars record that you can think of, you know, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
I don't I don't know any of the new We
don't read the credits anymore, like that stream.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
They don't even understand what it means. They don't even
understand what it means. Like then, I think we were
in a different day right back in the day was
it was a producer driven industry. It wasn't foul sharing,
so I wasn't sending you a fiul like I'm in
the studio with Michael. I'm in the studio with and
I'm doing their vocals with him, I'm coaching them. Now
it's just like, Yo, send the files and we're gonna

(07:03):
cut that tonight and send it back to you.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
And you gotta break that down.

Speaker 7 (07:06):
In personal engagement, like it's none of that.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is not at all, not at all. I think I
think that's where the game is lost. I think there's
a lot of producers and artists that don't even know
each other. Yeah, And it's and here's the difference too.
Remember like when credits was a thing, Yes, right, well,
credits was a thing, but it was also a thing
where you might only saw three to four names on

(07:28):
a song. The only time you saw multiple names is
when someone with someone sampled. Now you see ten fifteen
names on the record, You're like, dang, like who wrote what?
Like nobody can there's no real identity of a songwriter
anymore over a producer anymore, because it's so many names,
so we don't know who did what.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
And then a lot of that have to do a
sample sometimes though.

Speaker 6 (07:49):
That's what I'm saying this.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Back in the day, it didn't Now no, Now it's
just because you've been foul sharing. So it's like if
I if I'm working on the track and I started
and I'm like, oh, this is dope, let me send
it to him, and then he's like, Yo, this is dope,
but I think I could do a better eight o weight.
The minute that he has is eight o weight. He's
now a co producer, and then he sends it over

(08:11):
him He's like, yeah, this is fire. But yo, what
if we add this pad? Soon as he had that pad?
Now he's a producer. Now you got three producers versus
the one when I started out. Every song that I did,
I produce. So you're talking about fifty percent of the
publishing his mind right out the gate. That's how it
starts with every record. Fifty percent. Now I'm look at
when I look at splits, now I'll be seeing a

(08:33):
producer like seven percent five percent. Yo, what happened?

Speaker 6 (08:40):
You know? So I'm blessing the time that I came up.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, And I gotta ask, now you just glazed
over Michael Jackson. Talk about how you started working with
Michael Jackson. How was that call? And how was he
in the studio? Because you were actually in the studio.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
With him, the greatest, the greatest artist I've ever worked with,
hands down, like and you know Mike was so special
and different that he pushed you to limits like you
can't have imagine Like I remember him telling me, you
got to get exhausted in the music. I'm like, what, Like,
I ain't know what. I'm twenty one years old. He's
talking about twenty one year old kid working with Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
How did they call?

Speaker 6 (09:15):
How was that?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
How did he reach out? Oh? It called yo, this
is real crazy. It called from a dream, but it happened.
It happened from a dream. I was in my mom
say that before. I was in my mom and dad's
house on the couch, took a nap and I had
a dream, literally had this dream that I was pulling
up to this studio with glass windows, and I saw

(09:36):
Michael Jackson in the red shirt, that red shirt with
the black pants in the window. I woke up from
the dream, told my mother and father the dream. I
just had the phone rings like ten minutes later, lady
by the name of Carol beer Seger calls. You probably
even know what that is, she wrote, that's what friends
are four, it's the older lady whatever.

Speaker 6 (09:56):
She said.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I had saved my name out at the time of
Destney's Child. She goes, Ronnie, I love this song you
have out. I wonder know if you would have to
come to my house and work this week. And I
was like, I didn't even know she was. She was like,
I'm working with Michael Jackson. I was like where, She's
like bell Air. I was like, I'm in Jersey, but
I'm out. I'm going for real. I got on the

(10:17):
plane and I stayed in the hotel until she called me.
She called me on Thursday, four days later and was like,
can you come to the house today. I'm like, yeah,
I came. I kid, you not pulling up the driveway,
I looked to the left. I see Michael Jackson in
the window with the red.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Shirt damn, staring out the window.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Just like just like the dream. And I was like,
nobody can't tell me. God, ain't real have you ever.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Told him that?

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Did you tell him literally talk? I'm like, you know,
he blieves and stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (10:45):
That was how I was supposed to happen.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
Is that how you said?

Speaker 2 (10:47):
I supposed to Mike's voice is actually giving it. That's
how I supposed to you a little deeper than that, right,
but it was true? Like it like like I just
feel like God just went like he showed me exactly
how going to be. So I can't have the story
to be able to tell him one day I was
supposed to be.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
I want to say, envy. It's glossed over, not glazed.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
Even though Michael Jackson deserves all the glazing because he's
the greatest of all time.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
It's glossed over. Jesus, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Talk about working with MJ.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
How is that amazing? Well?

Speaker 6 (11:19):
He worked me hard, bro, He's different.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like he'd be like he would call three four o'clock
in the morning, be like can I hear what you're
working on over the phone, and I'll be like, I'm
actually not working right now. I'm actually trying to take
a nap because I've been up for thirty hours. No, Well,
can you go to the studio right now?

Speaker 6 (11:36):
Play? Like, he's like that.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So I get up and drive to the studio and playing,
and Mike was so crazy with it that this was crazy.
I would playing some of the phone. He'd be like,
can you turn the high hats down three DB's and
then make sure he's goes and make sure that pay
to the left. And I'll be like, really he goes, yes,

(11:58):
And I would be bugging and out. But only thing
I can think of right, which is crazy. Right. Michael
Jackson was taught by Barry Gordy Quincy Jones, Teddy Robby,
So that school. I'm a part of that school now, right,
And I'm getting what he learned from Barry Gordon Quincy Jones.

(12:21):
So I'm taking it all in. I'm learning. But dude
was he was incredible, bro like and a great person.

Speaker 6 (12:28):
Like you know.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
We we used to bet. We used to bet DVDs.
We played pool together, bet DVDs, bet DVDs. I used
to I used to bet him he beat me because
I scratch. And we go shopping right here, Virgin Music
Store on Tom Square.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
He would walk in there with you, he put.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
The disguise on. We went.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
We went there and I had to buy the DVDs.
A lot of people don't notice. I took Michael to
Record Park and basketball.

Speaker 6 (12:56):
No one knows this. Y'all know it now.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
But when we did My World, Michael kept saying, we
need to go to a club and test it out.
And I was like, I was like, I got one better.
I said, I'm gonna take this as spot called Record Park,
and I didn't let him get out the car, but
I just wanted him to feel the energy. So I
went to the Record Park and I played the record
and they was going crazy. They didn't know that Mike.

(13:19):
The window was cracked the whole time. They didn't know
Mike was in the car.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
And I'm gonna tell you how cool we got this,
how cool we got.

Speaker 6 (13:29):
I'm in Manhattan one time I could sense that.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm every time I went Mike, He's in disguise when
he goes out, like it's always that. One day I
was like, yo, hey, Mike, I'm coming to pick you up,
and he was like wow. I was like, just be read,
I'm coming to pick you up. I had a blue
Peakcock Bentley convertible. I dropped the top. I pulled up
to his apartment and I said, Yo, Mike, come out.

Speaker 6 (13:55):
He's like, let me get skipped. Skip was his security guard.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
It's like no, no, no, no, no, no, come out.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
I'm trying to kill Michael.

Speaker 6 (14:01):
Listen, I'm trying to kill him.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm I'm trying to let him see what I know
he wanted to see, right, and I knew no one
would do that for him but me. He gets in
my car. I put the windows up, but the top
is off. And I remember this day because that was
the day that Hot ninety seven was playing the Janet
Jackson Black Street record that just came out, and it

(14:25):
came on and I'm playing Hot ninety seven. I'm rolling
through Manhattan with Michael and he's going crazy. He's love.
He's just loving the fact. When we got back to
the apartment, he looked at him and he's like, thank you,
that's it. I'm just like, noo, this is what it's about,
trying to get him killed. I was just trying to
let him see reality because he ain't seen it in
so long. You feel what I'm saying, And that spills

(14:47):
over into our production, That spills over to Rock my World,
it spills over to what we're trying to create because
you have to still have a sense of what's going on,
or you can't really create from a real place.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
You know, like you talk about my Jackson. You worked
with them, you worked with Whitney, you worked with Brandy Beyonce.
What's something they all had in common in the studio
that separated them from everybody else?

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Tenacity, patience. You're talking about artists that focused on making albums,
which is another art form that we've lost a little bit. Right,
It wasn't about like just the single, it was about
like how to make a great a great album. I
felt like a lot of them sometimes got caught up
in trying to compete with themselves, especially Michael, like he

(15:34):
was overly trying to compete with himself. You never beat Thriller,
that's how could you?

Speaker 6 (15:40):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
But he believed he would, right, He believed he could.
He believed he would, which is crazy to think about it. Right,
if Michael was alive or was doing what he was
doing in the streaming world, I believe he could have
beat it. Really, yeah, I believe he could have been.

Speaker 5 (15:57):
But you know what's interesting with an album, like, are
any artists what are you trying to beat Are you
trying to beat yourselves? Are you just trying to be
better musically? I would think you just would want to
be better musically.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I don't.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I think someone like Michael got obsessed with knowing the
numbers that he that he did was so high that
he wasn't competing against anyone else anymore. Musically. It wasn't
a race with Prince anymore. It wasn't all He's like,
I already beat you. Now I'm trying to beat me right.
And And how I noticed to be factual was because

(16:30):
he didn't say that. He would say, I think there's
a day where I could do a billion cells. He
literally would say that, So that lets me know that
he's racing for that. He's racing for a number. And
he had to because in his mind he was like,
how do you stay hungry? How do you stay when
you're the greatest? Like how do you get up for

(16:51):
the fight? Like you know, a lot of great fighters
lose fights because they just can't get up for the
fight anymore because they've done That's why you got to
You gotta give props to someone of Floyd Mayweather. You
got be like, yo, this dude stayed hungry, like, no
matter what, some people get to forty and forty two
and no and they ready to just I'm done with it.
I'm not putting in that time no more. He saw
he had. He was super competitive. He was super competitive

(17:14):
with me, meaning like he would challenge me and tell me, like, yo,
that producer over there, he's coming for you.

Speaker 6 (17:21):
He would tell me, just like I'd be like, you crazy.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
If you think he got a chance to get on
this project, you out of your mind. That's how we talked.
And the coldest thing I saw Mike do was a
friend of mine. He ran E and My Publishing, Big
John Big John Platt. Big Big John Platt is the
is the CEO of Sony Music Publishing now YEP, but

(17:44):
at the time he was running E and I. He
wanted to meet Mike, So I took Mike to E
and I to meet him. I went to go make
sure everything was okay inside. I came back out, Mike
was gone and there was a van parked.

Speaker 6 (17:58):
In the spot.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm like, what happened? Where do you go? The guy
got off the van and said Mike wanted some fried chicken,
so he went up to block the Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
That's how he was. That's how he was.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
And what was crazy was y'all were here to story
about jay Z doing the Summer Jam bringing Michael out of.

Speaker 8 (18:19):
Me.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yea, we heard stories he.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Brought Michael out Summer Jam. That doesn't happen without me
introducing him to micro jay Z Again, jay Z wants
to meet Michael Jackson. So my man, Big Chuck, Big John,
all of them call me like, yo, can you introduce
Jay to Mike. I'm like, yeah, I didn't even know
j yet. I'm like, yeah, I got him bring up
to the studio. That was the Actually, that was the

(18:43):
first time I seen Jay kind of in a just
a very chill like Michael Jackson, Like, this is Michael Jackson.
I introduced him to Michael. He had a great conversation.
We're talking. Next thing, you know. A couple months later,
he calls Michael to do Summer Jam.

Speaker 6 (18:58):
Like he does it.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
Then Michael and the Girls Girls Girl's Remix.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
There's a version of.

Speaker 6 (19:01):
Him, that's what they Yeah, that's what on on one
of the remixes.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, yeah, so I wanted to ask.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
No, No. It was just like I think, like I was.
It was funny because I was just there trying to
introdate I think even fifty cent. It was just I
was introducing him to people that wanted to meet him
and that he wanted to meet. Mike was a diehard
fifty fan at the time, like no other rapper mattered
to Michael fifty and Biggie I was big and Biggie

(19:28):
was Biggie was gone. Biggie was gone. I remember Michael
used to do crazy challenges with me. I remember I
was working on this song called Unbreakable and as I
as I'm finishing it, Michael goes, we need Biggie on it,
as if he was alive. That's the way he spoke,
and I was like, what you mean.

Speaker 6 (19:43):
He was like, I want Biggie on this. So I'm like, yo,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Get And then then I realized I had like an
a cappella for something that he did with Shock back
in the day, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
use this and see if I can time and get
it right. And I got it in there and he
was like, okay, good, We're good. I got Biggie.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
But they worked together in real life too, though. That's
I always see that picture. I don't know if it's really.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I don't know. Maybe he did, I don't know, you
know he, I know he Biggie and fifty was the
two people he constantly talked to me.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Can you imagine Michael Jackson wild in the what up gangster?

Speaker 5 (20:14):
Damn?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, low key, yeah, yes, I can imagine that.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
I'm interested in I was going to ask you about this,
but I want to ask you about it now.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm interested in your visions?

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Right? Who just told the division you had about Michael?
And I heard the vision you had about jay Z.
Has Michael or Whitney visited you?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
And then when he used to sing with my dad's
church in Pleasantville, New Jersey, a little church with fifty
fifty people in it, call me up one day.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
I think, Charloman a dream, but I'm in the dream.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
I had one of your visions.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah? Has has said again said, have they visited you
in a vision?

Speaker 6 (20:45):
Like you're saying since yeah, yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, Michael for sure, Michael for sure. Now you want
to share it, not not as much Whitney, but like,
but Michael for sure. Just lie to just be like,
I'm back in the lab with Michael created. And the
crazy thing is is when I've had that dream, which
just happened a few times, it was something like musically incredible,

(21:09):
and when I got up, I couldn't remember when what
I was creating in the dream. It was like, whoa,
it didn't sound like anything from here.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Like you was talking about Whitney coming to your dad's church.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah. Like so me and Whitney bonded when I worked
with her, spiritually rebonded. And one day she just called
me out the blue and she was just like, oh,
we had just finished working together album that came out.
She was like, hey, what you're doing, dark child? Early
in the early Sunday morning. I was like, it's like
eight o'clock in the morning. What you mean, what am
I doing? She goes, I want to go to church today,

(21:41):
and I was like okay, and she's like, no, I
want to go to your church. And I was like,
my church is like two and a half hours from
mind of New Jersey. She was like, I'm on my
way and she pulled up to church. It's like like
she pulled up and she sang. She whispered in my ear.
She was like, tell your daddy, I want to sing
this is like in nineteen ninety eight or nine, Wow

(22:02):
and crazy, she's saying, killed it. But here, three months
before she passed away, she called me up. I ain't
talked to her in like probably five years. She called
me side, I need to see you. I said, what's up?
She goes, we need to pray together. She's like, where
are you at? I said, I'm at my studio in Hollywood.
She goes, I'm on my way. She came all the

(22:25):
way down from Newport Beach, wherever she was living at
the Toime literally came in the studio and next thing
you know, it turned into like a church service in
the studio, just three months before she passed away. So
we've always had that, like some of that type of connection. Now.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
You also talked about the competition between Prince and Michael, right,
was it the competition where you couldn't work for Prince
because Mike had his people, Prince had his people?

Speaker 1 (22:49):
How serious was that competition case? We hear stories all
the time.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Mike definitely stopped me from working with a lot of
people at that time, just a lot of artists. A
lot of artists was calling me to work at that time,
and Mike was just like I'll pay you not to
work with them. Yeah, she was like he was like,
I need you And it wasn't a thing. It wasn't
a thing of i'll pay you not to work with
them because they're not good or anything like that. Was
more so I need you here, focused on locked in

(23:13):
on what we're doing.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
You know, we always hear a conspiracy theories, like you know,
they be like, oh, Bill Cobby was trying to buy NBC.
Michael's the only person I believe they really really tried
the railroad like that because of what he did with
the publishing in the music industry.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
He talked about it all the time. He talked about
it all the time. One thing I will say is
that in the studio he would always talk about how
he he lived in a certain fear. And I used
to always try to real him in a direction like, Yo,
you only to post to fear. God man can't don't.

(23:47):
Shouldn't have you feeling like that, No man should have
you living in that space. But he lived in that
space a lot because he felt like he had something
that was so valuable what he did, He had something
so value that people want it.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
He owned like half half of Sony ATV's publishers.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, I think what people have confused. I'm glad you
said it that way, because I think people have confused
the narrative. People for so long have said Michael owned
the Beatles catalog. I heard that Michael owned Sony ATV,
which is Babyface, Mariah the Beatles. Probably some of my
catalog was in there. Yes, Like, I mean, you got

(24:26):
three giants right at the time, you had three giants.
Sony was pretty much the biggest out the three at
that time, and they did a deal with him that,
you know forever. He felt that they want it back,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
And you think they threw all those cases at Michael
because they wanted it back.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
I think it could have had something to do with it.
I'm not going to say exactly that, but it could
have had something to do with it. But I believe
none of it because I was around Mike all the
time and I knew the kind of person he was,
So I'm like, they's really trying to kill his character.
And he would say it like he'd be like, he
just they just can't stand that I'm the greatest. He
would literally say that. He would literally say that he

(25:05):
just can't stand that I'm the greatest.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
How was his mind frame during that time?

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Did you feel like the culture, especially black people supported
him and loved him or did he feel like the
world was turning against him?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Now I would say we started to surround him with that,
like if you look, there was a period where I
think he didn't feel that, and I felt like he
was like, I need this right. So there were certain
people that he started to reach out to to put
their arms around him, and he started to feel that
that's why he would do it a summer jam with
jay Z. It was really like he knew, like, I

(25:38):
need people to have my back of this. And then
certain people did wrap their arms around him. And as
things progress, the one thing I can tell you about
Michael that I started to learn was his family was strong.
Like his family like when they got together and wore
all that white, they were run those white going into
court each day, you saw that unity in a different
type of light. You're like, oh yo, these Jackson's playing

(26:00):
around with this. They unified And I think that helped
him even though he was like probably going through a
mentally weak and all of that, and it's tough when
you know, you pretty much own something that everybody man.

Speaker 7 (26:17):
So after all that, John Keith, what you got going on?

Speaker 4 (26:21):
That's ready to get to you.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
Yet we're gonna get to you. But you got to
sit here and look, we didn't have an interview. I
prefer that I don't. I don't want to go after Michael.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (26:39):
You also helped shape the sound of Early Destiny Child.
Did you see Beyonce be coming to Beyonce?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
We now know from the first session, say my name
was our first session and then you know we worked
together again. And when I got to day Dave with
her and Jade, that's what I really knew. I saw
the difference, right because in the group, in the group format,
she still was in the group, so she might have
been like somewhat. You know, if you really look at
Destney Chaud as the group, they never really showed her

(27:09):
as the leader. You know how you're in certain groups
and you know like that's the that's the leader. No,
it was kind of trying to position them somewhat like
a boys and men where they all could do their thing.
But we saw the leadership qualities when we worked with her, right,
But when I got to Deja vu Bro. I remember
playing her to demo to Deja voud for first time.
When the song went off, she was already telling me

(27:30):
her visual for the visuals. Wow. So she was like,
this is how I see it. I'm gonna paja on it.
Like she was like, this is she reminds me of
so much of Michael was scary. Like at that time,
I was like, Yo, she just came and she just
came into her own like mic like she's now you know,
I could just see the elevation of that, you know
what I mean, Like.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Really quickly, I want to ask, you know, at all,
besides Whitney and Michael Jackson, who's one of your best
artists to work with, Like the time and the fact
that they're there all the time, they're gonna grind it out,
They're amazing a vocalist.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Who is that next person? Of course, besides Beyonce.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Probably probably Brandy. I would think that's my girl. Take
us into a session with Brandy. Yeah, it was just
like well Brandy, it was. It was it was the
regiment that she had that was interested right, especially when
I was doing Never Say Never but Full Moon, especially
like she was playing tennis with Serena Williams before the

(28:26):
session every day, right, which was.

Speaker 6 (28:29):
Interesting, was crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, she was practicing with Serena every day. And she
would come in the studio shout out to my man
Paris Davis, because he was the an R like a
real an R cat right, and he had her. He
was the one that said you need to be playing tennis,
so he had her, had her playing tennis early in
the morning. Come in the studio and John can tell

(28:52):
you as an artist. Nowadays, artists can do a song
on one day. They've done it in and out a
few hours, it's done. We was doing songs. It was
taking us three four days. We really working on backgrounds
just on one day. I remember times where people, a
lot of artists would actually be like, yo, Rodney, please
let me.

Speaker 6 (29:09):
I'm tired.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I'm like, we ain't done, Like it's not right yet.
Until we get this thing right, We're not done. Brandy
was one of those artists that would go the full
length and not complain about it. Michae would even sometimes
complain like Ridan, I'm getting horse like his vocalal s
would call me Seth Raves a call be like you're working,
you're working them too hard, right, and you're working too
hard And I'm like, yo, we're working on music, working
on this song, bro, like what we do?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
How does that affect you now with these new artists
right because they're not staying in the studio that long
hour two? So how do you still have that same
conversation with a new artist and say, nah, I need
you to come back, I need you to stay longer.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
It's not happening.

Speaker 7 (29:46):
And then, like you said, you'll be like you used
to be, like, look, we're not done. So and your
artists stay there because they know the work and dedication
is gonna make for great music. You tell one of
these you know, new artists that.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
They don't even know what they don't even know what
eight to ten hours, twelve hours it was times. You
know me personally, I stay in the studio. People know,
like I wouldn't leave. I'd be at two three days straight.
People like after three four hours, they kind of like, yo's.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Go to the music is worse.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm like, yo, that's not even like a nine to
five though, Like you like think about it, like if
you was working, like you're not even giving you a
full nut of file right now. So I don't know
when that that that shift happened exactly. I think like
maybe hip hop caused.

Speaker 6 (30:26):
It, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Or maybe when we hear stories of like when Lil
Wayne says you, I'm working on this album from the hotel,
it may have created a narrative like yo, I don't
need to go in the studio on the booth anymore.
I could just do like he did a record right
out of his car that's fired, like they you know,
maybe that's what happened, like something something had to shift
technology technology, So.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
What does it take to build a superstar in today's game?

Speaker 5 (30:50):
When the attention span is so short and most of
these guys and girls I already think they are brand.

Speaker 6 (30:56):
I try to encourage, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
I try to encourage artists to do what I was
taught in that study, like study everybody before you like
know the errors of music and go deep into it,
understanding what it takes to be great. Right, It's not
just like I got a song that's that's dope and
it's popping, or I'm gonna do this TikTok video Da
da da dah, like that's gonna come, it's gonna go.

(31:19):
But if you really study and understand, Like there's a
reason why a Michael was a Michael because he looked
at Jackie Wilson and James Brown and he was like, Okay,
I'm gonna add that to my repertoire, right, and I'm
I'm gonna learn how to do what they do and
take it to the next level. Nowadays, like I think
artists are looking at each other around and saying, yo,

(31:44):
I got something hotter than that, or I need to
get a feature like instead of really going back and
being like, yo, I want to know why this person
sold sixty million, Like why would Thriller sell sixty million albums?
There's a reason it was great.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
Yeah, the quality there's one hundred now right.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Forty? You know that that's crazy you think about it,
like like when we was talking about it, it was at
sixty and that was like fifteen years ago. Now I
was at one hundred. But the reason why is because
you had these geniuses, right, not just Quincy and Mike,
Bruce Swedeen on the mixing, the best musicians in the world.

(32:20):
Like they cared. It wasn't about let me just give
my homie to play guitar on this part right here,
now I need David Williams to play. I need the
best like you gotta be. He gotta be close to
Prince to play on this song. And that's what we missing.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
Who are you studying, mister keith Man? You know what
I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Now?

Speaker 6 (32:38):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (32:39):
After looking up with Rodney, it's kind of like where
I really started my study journey, you know what I'm saying. So, like,
I just I just texted him the other day. I
was like, hey, man, what are the best Michael Jackson documentaries?
You know what I'm saying? He was like, the one
I'm in.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
But you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (32:56):
Of course, you know what I'm saying. I've been you
know what I'm saying. I've been I've been looking at
the Beatles. I've been looking at Michael Jackson recently a
lot of because of what you know I'm saying. He
talks about with his like his competitive spirit and like
his drive to just.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Be great, you know.

Speaker 8 (33:15):
And so yeah, I mean that's what That's kind of
where I've been recently.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Yeah, where are you from?

Speaker 8 (33:22):
Ill from San Diego?

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah, California. Are labels still investing in artists development?

Speaker 5 (33:27):
The way they used to is that like the responsibility
of people like you now or the other producer are
like the.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Manager labels gonna do that. Like I don't even know
the last time I really had a real A and
R conversation with like a real like you know, back
in the day, the an rs get involved and really
helped shape what it's gonna look like nowadays, just just.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Like digital research, the chasing numbers.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Now, yeah, it's the numbers. And and by the way,
we can't blame the an rs. So let's let's put
this out here. No, you can't, because everything starts with
the top down. You're gonna from the top. So it's
whatever the mandate of the top is telling you. The
mandate is, we don't need seventeen creative A and rs anymore.
I remember when I worked at death Cham with under
j in La, there was seventeen an rs in a room,

(34:13):
right creatives. Then that the top says, Now, the top says,
we don't need seventeen in room. We need we need
ten digital researchers.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
But then you look at a label like TDE, who
was basically an.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
A and R that's independent. What is the digital research
that's the difference. It's searching numbers, that's the difference. That's independent, right,
the independent labels all day long. We gonna do that
for him for our artists, right, But those major labels,
that's why they do deals with the TV right because
they're doing it like, Yo, you guys do that? Well,
can you guys do that? We just cut all The

(34:48):
thing we really care about is those numbers. But market
share is the key to these, to the major labels.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
But then you look at what Timberland did. Do you
agree with Timberland did said he's signing his first AI artists,
which is a fake artists making a beat. Do you
agree with that? Because that takes away from the creative process,
That takes away from what he's doing him.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
You don't think Timberland has to be creative to do that? Yeah, absolutely,
one hundred has.

Speaker 6 (35:11):
To be creative to do that.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Right, if I think we getting to the point where
the music industry is becoming funny, right, Remember Kanye did
a song he was talking about like poop poop whatever,
one of the best beats ever. What he was basically saying, well,
he's saying was like I can say anything, and y'all
foods is going to buy because y'all, this is where

(35:35):
we're at, right.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Top twenty record, by the way, too crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
There you go.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
That's where we at though.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
But I think, I think what Timblin is doing with
the AI thing is like he's figured out a tool.
It's a tool, right, he's figured out. I think people
are scared, that's scared to death of AI, like it's
going to replace human. Oh it's not, because you still
have to control it. You still have to be the
one to prompt do the prompts. It's still it's still
for I can't just it's not just waking up like

(36:02):
I'm new Charlotte. Man. It's not that. It's not that
you have to literally you have to be almost a
You have to be an incredible prompter to be able
to to make it do some of some incredible things.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Somebody would say, if you put all that effort into AI,
why not put it into an artist.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Artist sometimes talk back, Yan, damn, listen, listen.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
But that I saw an artist say exactly what you
just said.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
They said they don't want us talking back anymore.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Listen, listen, somebody listen. I talked to Timblin in death
about this. I can't wait to see what he does
with this.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Right is a genius.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
He's a genius, So I can't wait see with that.
But I think a lot of times, like I think
he's at a place in his life where he's just like, yo,
I need to be just doing what I feel I
want to do. Differently, I don't know if I want to.
I don't know if I got the energy to be
dealing with some of the stuff that I've been dealing with,
you know, and the labels and all that. I just
you know, I'm gonna just do this, and I'm gonna
tell this thing exactly what I needed to do, and

(37:07):
whatever it does, it does. If it wins, it wins.
If it don't, it don't. He don't.

Speaker 6 (37:10):
I don't think he's caring like that.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
It's hard to make a hit regardless, right, And it's
gonna be even harder when people know it's coming from
AI because the consumer is already gonna put a field.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
A force field up to reject.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
They're not gonna even want to consume it properly because
it's AI.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
They're not even gonna give it an honesty here.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I feel like you shouldn't have said nothing.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I'm one hundred percent agreement. Like sometimes the Bible says,
don't let your left hand know what your right hand
is doing.

Speaker 6 (37:38):
Sometimes you just gotta go.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Let people hear it. Then they be like, oh, that
was dope. Then after the fact you're like, no.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Do you think timeless music can still break through in
this world that rewards the microwave success and the algorithm with.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
I think when people really when you really put your
heart into something, there's still a thinking. I still believe
that there's people that really late and it's relatable content,
relatable subjects, relable things that we we go through a
daily basis, and when you put your heart into it,
I think there's people waiting for that. I just think
that we've been we've been part of the problem of

(38:13):
not giving it anymore. Right us producers, the labels that
you need, you need the independent labels to now stand
up to be able to give that.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
So if a young producer came to you right now
and they was like, how do I create my own brand?

Speaker 4 (38:26):
How do I create one Beyonce in this era? Is
there a blueprint for that?

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Didn't like, didn't jay Z say like, if you've made
a made a whole, make another whole. Ain't no blueprint, right,
You just gotta work hard and put the effort. If
that's something that you really want to try to do.
I just think again, it goes back to you got
to study the craft right and and go hard.

Speaker 6 (38:52):
And see what you can come up with.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
And and be patient, because I think the thing is
everybody wants to quit the quick thing right now tomorrow.
We gotta be this tomorrow now, Like some stuff takes two, three,
four years. You gotta be patient. You know what?

Speaker 7 (39:06):
Now we got Remember back in the day, you used
to be able to buy like albums and everything like that,
and now everything is new, Like with technology, we got streaming. Now,
how does that affect songwriting and like splits for songs,
producers and everything.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Terror On the songwriting side, there's two components, right. You
have the master side, which is great. Then you have
the publishing side. On the streaming side, it's terrible. It's listen,
I'm an advocate against what's going on. There's no reason
why if I got a record and it does a
billion streams and I have the publishing on it, I

(39:43):
should be able to buy a house from that. When
you think so a billion streams. I couldn't even probably
pay too much of an apartment billion off a billion
streams with publishing. That's facts. It's so lopsided. That's why
I believed. I still believe in radio. I tell him

(40:04):
a heart be like ya, he got a song at
like number twenty four of me in mainstream right now,
and I'm like, yo, bro, don't just run away from that,
Like that's that's You're gonna reap those benefits real soon.
We yeah, you like that. I didn't realize, like I've
seen people like literally myself make a living off a
radio role. I'm like, man, it's like the streaming world.

(40:26):
It's like night and day.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
But somewhere along the line people don't. I don't know
where the disconnect is.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
But radio royalties paid way more than screaming ever could ever.
I don't understand why you're not telling your artists make records.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
For radio, I said, because I believe that it's still
a road to discovery. So no matter what, like, yo,
you make a high record. Yeah, of course, these young
this generation is going to Spotify and Apple Music and
seeing the streams and getting excited, right, and it's great,
But at the same time, you got miles and feed
you got you know, and so you don't just all

(40:59):
right doing this for radio? Come on, what else?

Speaker 7 (41:02):
Do you feel like a songwriters like a money long
and a neo they keep songs for themself, you know
what I mean, because they're not making no money writing,
you know, for these new artists.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
So that's right.

Speaker 6 (41:12):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Did you feel disrespected when you heard just hilarious rendition
of the Boy's Mind?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
No mind? I thought I thought it was hilarious, but
I thought it was hilarious. You mean a little more
all was said wrong? That's you straight next time?

Speaker 1 (41:39):
What was it one record that you were surprised took
off the way that it was.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
It might have been that one, the Boy's Mind, Yeah,
because we were going through this battle when we did.
When I was doing to Never Say Never project, You understand,
I was a kid bro, So there was there were
some people that didn't believe that I should do the
whole album. Executive produced the whole album. And I'm in
there and I'm like, and I'm I'm young, but I'm
super confident, like y'all are tripped and like this is fire,

(42:07):
and they was telling me this is crazy.

Speaker 6 (42:08):
They were telling me at the end of the project.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
They were like, so, yeah, we gotta go fly down
Atlanta to work with JD to get a single.

Speaker 6 (42:15):
We gotta go.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Then we're gonna do wid cleft to get a single.
And I was like, in the studio you kind of
feel disrespected, especially when you've done like nine songs. So
you're trying to tell me we just did nine songs,
and you told me, I don't got the first single.
And this is my body of work that I'm putting
my any and I don't got the first single.

Speaker 6 (42:31):
I swear on everything I level.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I packed my bags up and went home from LA
I went back to went back to Jersey, and I said,
y'all figure it out, damn. And then they called back
and was like, oh wait, wait, wait wait. I was like,
y'all a trip. We got singles left and right, just
put them things out.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
What had you nine you recorded already? What was some
of the ones you recorded already?

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Top of the World with Mace, Wow? The Boy's Mind,
which was early early on in the project. I mean
we had Angel in the Sky, we had dined, I
had this much everything.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
How did the Boy's Mind? Was that your idea and
how did that come about?

Speaker 6 (43:03):
How did the boy's mind's funny?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I was just again at my dad at my dad's house,
and I was like playing this harp sound and I
was like, again, it goes back to studying, right. Nobody
used a harp sound in urban music for but when
they used they used it one way. Chucky Thompson and
different producers like Dave Hall back in the day and
the Untouchables, they used a harp sound like it's called glitts,

(43:28):
like it would come down like a glist. I heard
and I liked the sound of it. I was like,
what if I made it like rhythmic? And I broke
it up, like broken into rhythm. So I just started
doing it, and my dad came down with a little tapercord.
Hes To always had a little taper cod like that's incredible.
You gotta you gotta lay that, and then I laid
it down. In Paris, Davis Brady's A and R he
heard and we did it on We recorded on Brandy

(43:50):
and he was like, Yo, what if we put Monica
on this? And you know at that time, Monica and
Brandy they kind of didn't like each other. It was
definitely it was definitely a few between the two and
I was like, Oh, that's never gonna happen. Knowing Brandy
and knowing how that's never gonna happen, it's like, nah,
I think it could happen, like if I get you
on the phone with Dallas Austin and I was like

(44:10):
all right, And then next thing you know, it started
to shape. And even when it came out. Here's the thing,
I wasn't surprised that it was going to do well.
I didn't know it was going to stay number one
for that long. It's like thirteen fourteen weeks number one,
Like we did sixteen million albums sold on that project.
So like those type of things for my first my

(44:32):
second album was that gena talking about my second album
that I produced executive producer.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
To do those numbers was kind of crazy.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
You know, it's crazy back then, right like nowadays, people
manufactured the drama, didn't try to do the music with
that record.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
It was the song the.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
Music, and then people started speculating about the drama after
the fact, like they're really a boy that they arguing over.
We know that they got beat with each other, so
that's and plus the video.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I mean, you think about them doing a tour, right,
they're about to do a tour together, talking about like this,
why did they do a tour again?

Speaker 6 (45:00):
Other fifteen years ago?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (45:02):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (45:03):
Like, but you know it's time off everything.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I get it, But like dag like man, imagine them
doing the tour together fifteen that would.

Speaker 7 (45:09):
Have been crazy, but it's gonna be crazy though they
didn't get along.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
What made you and brandy chemistry work so well?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I think I think my my musicality, So what I
what I did with Brandy, I would make Brandy match
whatever I played. I don't know if that makes sense,
right if I played, if I played a sound, I
wanted her to become the sound and I'm playing, so
I would tell her. I would be like, you're the
strings now, like I'm gonna play the strings, but I

(45:36):
need you to be the string. And she did it
incredibly well. Like no, I feel like when she cut
her vocals, like she's the warmth that come off her
is just different. Her tone, her tone bar none is
probably the best tone we've probably ever heard in the
longest time. Right, I always say, like for me, it's
it's Jasmine Sullivan and Brandy like those tongs, those warm

(45:58):
tones and yeah, and its just and it's just like
you know, I feel like you know, within the first
hour of a session whether it's gonna go right or
it's gonna go left. And when we got in it
just you just knew. Like we did five songs in
the first five days, the first five songs on the
Never Seen.

Speaker 6 (46:16):
That we did in the first five days.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (46:18):
Anybody you ever worked with in the studio, you've been
in there for a hour and it didn't go right,
and you was like, ah.

Speaker 6 (46:24):
That happens, looking for so.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
It happens. It does. It happens all the time, like
you know, you know, like you go like, I'll finished
the session, but I'd be like, man, I wish it
could have went better, Like I know, like out the gate,
like it was just cool. It was it was our
it wasn't you know, it could have went better. And
sometimes I'd be like, I would like to do a
reup on that, you know, because a lot of it

(46:51):
is psychology, like when you're working with people, you gotta
kind of understand like and also timing. I imagine you
working with somebody but that the best.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Day to work with them.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
You got them that day and back in the day
was really tough for us, right because sometimes like when
I did say my name, for example, say my name
with Dusty Child, I only had them for a day. Wow.
So it was like one of those things where you
got you know, you got Dusky Child for a day,
or you got Kirk Franklin for a day. Like I'm like,
all right, I gotta go and I gotta show up
and show out and one day, right and you don't

(47:22):
know what you're gonna get.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
Yeah, Well, they have an artist you worked with who
completely surprised you in the booth, like somebody whose talent
is hit different when they got on the mic.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I think, I think, I think scissors underestimated. Like like
I think sometimes like artists will vocalize based on what's hot,
on what's going on, when there's so much more there.
They're just not giving it because they don't have to, right,
I think there's a lot more there, Like a lot

(47:52):
of a lot of times when I work with says,
A lot of times I actually would get some brandy
out of it.

Speaker 6 (47:56):
I'd be like, m.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Look like some of the some of the stuff she done,
like something brand he mighta would have done. But then
there's just certain little things, just little nuances that I'm like, oh,
that's something, But I don't know that she fully even
yet knows that she can even go somewhere else. I
feel like.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
It's one of those people that the more she does
the work personally, like they improve her mental and emotional
well being.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
It's going to translate to the music.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
And the question is like, well, for me, this is
what I believe. I just believe that don't happen unless
you find God. M hmm. I believe there's no there
ain't I don't. I believe there is. It's real simple
unless and I'm not saying she don't know God or
had an experience with God, so don't get that part twisted.
But I believe like in order for us to mentally

(48:49):
be at our best state is when we know God right,
because the Bible says that he's not the author of confusion.
So and you gotta have a sober mind, right, Your
mind got to be on point, and that only comes
from an understand a real understanding, a real relationship. I
think people have twisted the narrative too much of religious

(49:11):
So that's religious. Well, I ain't got nothing to do
with nothing. It's relationship, Like, what's your relationship? Like, I
have a great relationship with my four kids, right, I
got two boys, two girls. I have a great relationship.
I'm their father. I have a father, a heavenly father.
I have a great relationship with It ain't religious. It's

(49:35):
just like I know how to talk to him and
I hear him speak to me as simple as that.
So I feel like when you when you have that relationship,
it creates clear path for the things that you create
and the things that you want to do.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
One time, I feel like maybe it's just me. Do
you feel like you were oversaturated at one point?

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Like it was just so much you were doing stopped.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
It just felt like it stopped.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, what happened. The stop was when I stopped. So
what happened, I can tell you when it happened. It
was after Michael too, like I needed a break. Before Michael,
I was just talking about this like there was it
was a moment where like the phone is ringing and
everybody's calling you and you've made it, but you're trying
to please everybody. The industry is like knocking at the door.

(50:25):
We got this for we got there wedn't do this remax, No, no,
can you be it? And you're just like me. I'm
so creative. I could do nine ten tracks in a day.
It's easy for me. So it became like, oh I could, yeah,
put me in the studio song, so I got that.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
I got that.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
So three hundred and sixty five days out the year
and I'm in a lab.

Speaker 6 (50:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
My catalog is thick, like people don't even understand, Like
we talk about songs that come out, but nobody understands
the songs that no one's ever heard, the unrelease gems
right on the ground versus yeah, peoplen't understand like all
of that right, And then it comes to point where
it's like like what he just said, Like mentally, you

(51:04):
start feeling like you have nothing less and that's when
you have to figure out, Okay, what am I going
to do? And there's this knock and it's not me knocking,
it's God knocking. Like you're giving too much attention to
everybody else. You put too much into this industry and

(51:28):
not into me. And God showed me. God showed me
at an early age that man will always let you down,
but he never leaves us. He never for said, He's
always knocking, even when we go astray, even when I
always try to put things in knowledge of my kids,
even when I tell my kids don't go over there,

(51:48):
but they still do it right, It doesn't mean I'm
not chasing them. I'm still going to get them. That's
how he is with us, Like, yeah, I see you
over there, you're doing that, But I got something bigger
for you. You burnt yourself out because you don't want
to You didn't want to listen to I can show
you how to do things with balance. Mhm, knock on

(52:09):
the door, come and get me. And then I have
to submit to it. And then when I submit to it,
I see my life change in a whole different way.
And now now my creative, my creativity is on a
different level. It's beyond music. Music is just a little
small that was just a little small piece of everything,
But it showed me something way greater through my through

(52:32):
my family.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
Did the depths of Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston debt
bring you close.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
To to God as well?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah? I was really technically I was kind of really
more hurt when being passed. I remember being I remember
being in La when that happened and I and I
was like, I gotta go home, man, like this this
is just too much. Yeah, Like this industry I think
creates that sometime, the pressure of the industry, the press, Like.

Speaker 6 (53:01):
Yo, us people.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
The biggest problem that we have in this music in
the street is one of the toughest sins. It's called vanity.
I remember one time, right, I'm a big guy. I
remember one time I was like getting myself together, right,
and I'm working hard too. I think it's like two
thousand and sixty. I mean, I'm running the mountains, I'm doing everything.
I'm dropping me and I read my I'm on FaceTime.

(53:26):
I hit Mike Tyson one time, was one of my
best friends, and I said, yeah, like, yo, he seen me.
He like, but don't get it twisted. Brother, So he said,
don't get it twisted. But I said, what he's like,
vanity will kill you. He told me that. The thing
hit me so hard because I was like, Yo, that's
what our industry's built on. Everybody that does what they do,

(53:46):
or all these pictures on the wall, they smiling a
lot of these pictures, but where they go home, they crying.
They going home, they lonely, they go home, they looking
at the wall, and like, listen, they stressed out because
they had to put the thing on, the mask. They
had to put it on, you know. And that's why
we at least I tell people, listen, let's stop playing

(54:09):
around with this now, like we've been here long enough.
And I say that to y'all. Y'all been here long enough.
Y'all know what it is to get up early in
the morning, come to work, do what you gotta do.
Da da da dah. Right, can't tell me that it
ain't no pressure in it. That is just easy. I'm
just gonna wake up and do my thing. No, So
I tell people like, yo, what's your relationship like with God?
Not no religious stuff, what's your relationship like? Because if

(54:33):
you're not tapped in, tapped in, you're not living your
best You can lie put the smile on it back,
live on my best life.

Speaker 6 (54:39):
No, you're not.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
If you're not really tapped in. If you don't know
what's to come to tomorrow, tomorrow proverb says this. It says,
don't boast about what you got today because you don't
know what's to come tomorrow. That's the vanity part, you know.
I'm killing it right now? How many times we heard that?
And the next day by where they go, where's the song?

(55:00):
What happened? Puffing our chest out? God don't want that.
He wants us actually to be humble, right, y'all got
the pride month?

Speaker 6 (55:11):
Thing happened right?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Well? Really, if you want to get technical, to Bible
said pride country for the fall.

Speaker 6 (55:17):
So we poke it.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
If we puffed out with pride too much, we bound
a fall.

Speaker 6 (55:22):
And how many times you've seen somebody puff their chest out?

Speaker 2 (55:24):
And then what happens?

Speaker 6 (55:26):
Y'all seeing it right now?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Real time, literally real time.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
So you know, I think there's rules. There's rules that
God wanted to established as a father to his children.
That's what I believe, just the same way you would
to your children. And those rules we sometimes look at
like I ain't doing that. It's too You've got too
many laws? You got? Why is it so many rules?
Because you know how he was going to act.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Have you ever thought that, you know, I want to
change my name to the light child?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Maybe no, you wrestle with that. Not light child, I
like child, not like child. It's not dark not like child.
But you know what, because I never I never call
myself dark child based on dark like that that wasn't
the intentions right, it was some people thought it was
because I was dark skinned. Me, I knew it where
it came from. Came from the chords that I used

(56:15):
to play as a kid, these minor chords. But it's
funny sometimes sometimes I sit and I wrestled, and I'm like, yo,
like is that through people where they see that in
the wrong light, in the wrong way, you know, And
I do. I wrestle with that sometimes with.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
An artist if you don't see God in.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Them right now, it's different for me. Yeah, there was
a time where like I would have been stroudled in
that fence over and over again because I didn't look
at I didn't look at it for what it was.
And I think over the last two years, there's been

(56:50):
a new birth that happened. Like I get it now.
I get it now. When Jesus told Niko demons, he
said you got to be born again, I get it now,
like and even Nicodine was like, what born again? What
you mean by that? What you mean like I thought
the wound born that got had that happen? No, like
born again in your spirit, like you have to be

(57:13):
born again. And so there's a lot of times people
will call me all the time, Yo, I want you.
I just I can show you. I just got a
call again in the studio, what are the artist? And
I was like, I can't do that. I can't do it.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
Why, it's just, it's not why.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
I now. What I can do and what I will
continue to do is speak what I believe is true.
So I had an.

Speaker 6 (57:35):
Artist one time.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I had someone call me recently about an artist coming
to my studio and I said, or when they leave,
I mean when I if I do a record with them,
it might not be the record they expect to do.
They're like what. I was like, yeah, I guess real
over here and I said, They said, well, how real
is I said, well, every two weeks we do a
thing called Worship Alive at my studio where we have

(57:59):
kind of church in the studio and you experienced it.
They're like, you do that. I'm like, yeah, I guess
really real, Like I want to. I want to see
people changed, and you can't see people change unless you change.
And I'm a work in progress. I'm a work in progress.
We all all right, we all work in progress. We
send daily so you know, so, but I do. I

(58:22):
believe that there's I believe that there's hope for people.
I believe I want to see I want to see
people's relationships form with their father, with their creator.

Speaker 5 (58:30):
So are you a I guess a faithful artist because
I know the Aliens Alive is a faith label.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (58:36):
So I'm a Christian artist. I mean I was raising
the church. You know what I'm saying. My my my
father is he's a pastor now, but you know that's
kind of new, but he's he's always been in some
kind of leadership.

Speaker 6 (58:47):
In the church.

Speaker 8 (58:48):
But even like you know, for me, like I only
I got I got no hobbies. I do music, and
I'm like, I'm a Bible nerd.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
That's it. I don't.

Speaker 8 (58:56):
I don't I don't do sports. I don't do I
don't dovideo games like that's it, you.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (59:01):
So, yeah, proudly, proudly artist.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
What did you see in John that said I want
to work with him?

Speaker 6 (59:11):
I think he wanted to kill himself.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
And when you get to a vulnerable state in your music,
sometimes people it goes over people's heads. And when I
heard some of the things that he was saying. I
was like, WHOA, Like he's special like this this, this
dude right here is special. Special. He just needs the
right team with him, and and he keeps getting better.

(59:38):
He's not just a he's not just a rapper, singer,
like musician, does all his music, producers everything, oh nine,
Like he's a beast. But but I knew I heard
his heart in his music and I heard something that
could that was that could penetrate the youth differently, because
I believe people go through things and they just don't
talk about it. And here's my question, right, I got

(59:59):
a question, right, why is it so quick? Like when
you think when we think about radio, why is it
so quick that we are so quick to play music
from people who play their experiences or what they go through,
what their lifestyle is. But when someone on the face side,
it's hard to play that. Why is that? What's what's

(01:00:21):
what's the factor of it? Right? So because because people
used to say, oh, yeah, well that's cheesy, that's what
they Oh, that's corny, right, And I was like, well,
then I'm gonna be the difference maker in that, and
I'm gonna find some artists that ain't corny that y'all
can bob your hads to still listen to still groove
to Da Da da dah. But they got a message
with it, right. So then when I when I came across,

(01:00:43):
I was like, he's one of the ones. He's keeping.
He's telling you his story, telling you what he's going through.
He's telling you that he was literally about to do
in his life. And where the change came. It didn't.
It didn't come from just sitting down and getting some
help from talking to somebody. It came from him. But
he's to say, a Bible nerd, digging deep into his word, right,

(01:01:04):
and so and if that becomes an ultimate change, how
can that help someone else?

Speaker 6 (01:01:08):
I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
But honestly, that's what we kind of grew up on.
Like when you think about like the artists we grew
up on, like they were doing that. Like it may
have been in a street form or whatever you want
to call it, but if you actually listening to the music,
there's a lot of socially redeeming value.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
And they but why don't they play it? Why don't
they play the ones? So? Is it because they because
they edified Christ? Is that the reason why? And we
are we so lost. Are we so lost that when
someone's their their reality is what his reality may be,
what he feels Jesus did for him right and redeeming

(01:01:43):
his life. If that's really, if that's his reality and
he's speaking on it, why can't we play that well?

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
I think that if if DJs and program directors, if
they actually had their hearts open and not their pockets
and not dealing with industry politics, they probably would accept
more of that because there's plenty of it, Like you
know you have rahaps to, you know you have the
Kendricks last missed the morale and the Big Step was
like that was incredible, but.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You got Little Baby and Kirk Franklin, you got Glow
and really new record Franklin. And it was good seeing
it at the BT Awards where the gospel category had
rappers doing God.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
But to his point, radio is playing style.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Man, no, no, no no, But know what I mean
by stopping, it's like I don't like that. Let me
tell you what part like that because you can't go
and do ninety percent of something and then say, Okay,
I'm gonna do ten percent of this and then I'm
gonna go win the awards with the ten percent that
I do when you got dudes doing it every single day,
and it's that why it's that lifestyle.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
I don't disagree with that, But to your point where
all works in progress, and what if that's God's way
of saying, look, you're doing all of this, you don't
get no rewards for it, but you did this record
and you got rewarded for it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
What if that makes that person in that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
I ain't concerned about no rewards. You think he you
really think God is concerned about it. You think he's
concerned about a songwriter this whole thing for me? You
really think that? Be honest? Why do you think that?

Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
Because I think that it's your testimony, right, You've told
us how you've opened up to God, and you know
you've given your life to God and you're continuing to
be rewarded for it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
And I think that will make people be like, damn,
I want to do what he's doing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
It's not just about beats, it's about the work he's
done on himselves spiritually.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I'm glad you think that. I don't think that, And
I'll tell you why. This is what I believe. When
you play a basketball game, right, a team that's playing basketball.
There's no reason to play on a team. Let's say,
in any NBA team, there's no really reason to play
unless the goal is to get to the finals. We've

(01:03:44):
put too much on our finals being here on earth.
If our finals was really predicated in what it really
is on eternal, we would play the game different. I personally,
I don't think that God is really concerned about the reward.
I think he's concerned about the ultimate reward in Heaven

(01:04:08):
that he wants to give his children. In the Book
of James's Talking, it talks about enduring.

Speaker 6 (01:04:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
We're all in this race, right, trying to make it,
trying to live our lives and do whatever. But this
is not the ultimate ending like some people just think
it ends and it's over. No, there's an eternal real
He promises it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
So you show me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
We're in his word where he says that he states
things that didn't happen. What do you mean you show
me in the Bible where things that were talked about
right that didn't happen, it happened. Like if they said
it was going to be a storm, this factually happened.
I want to actually had there was people that don't

(01:04:56):
that literally if you told me, if you talked about
certain things right now, I witnessed it and then I
can go back and write about it, like, yes, you
know what I mean said, that's what happened. Like people
are like John was sitting, But that's.

Speaker 5 (01:05:06):
Like your dreams. Like God showed you Michael Jackson. You
went to go work with Michael Jackson, and you were
rewarded for that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
See you got the reward wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
No, you got a reward of a relationship with Michael.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
My reward, okay, my reward was when Michael called me
to pray for him. In two thousand and three, I'm
in a studio with Chris Tucker and my father. We
at the studio. Michael was going through that trial and
he said where yesman, he said, can you can I come?
I just need prayer. That's the reward, all the accolades,
it just comes and all that. That's what the world seeds.

(01:05:40):
But now that I'm older and look back, I'm like, though,
the ultimate reward and I'm blessed to have all these stories, right,
But the ultimate reward was the time that we prayed together.
The ultimate reward is when I go to his funeral
and Signdra Crouch and Seth Riggs. His vocal quote says, yeah, yeah, Mi,

(01:06:03):
Michael received Christ two weeks ago. He had us prayed
and he did the sentence. That's the reward. That's what
I'm trying to get everybody under secure.

Speaker 5 (01:06:12):
But how do we know that God didn't connect you
and Michael for that reason?

Speaker 6 (01:06:16):
He might have.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
That's what I'm saying right now.

Speaker 5 (01:06:18):
God has expanded your territory so much that you are
Rodney dark child Jerkins. Your testimony hits different, my brother,
when you on the microphone telling people that they need
to find God, and these are the reasons why their
ears are open a little bit more facts.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
But their ears are open because of the work that
you did with everybody else. That's why you always say
when we're talking about putting the medicine in the candy,
but let me.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
Do about God. By the way, I love the bates
about God.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
You know we can hang if you loved it. That
means you're being called, but go ahead. Did you say
your catalog? Yeah, several Christ several times recently.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
It's the reason I ask is recently they said that
you sold your catalog And why you know you talk
about owning yourself some stuff several times?

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Seven times? Why several times? Because I know things that
they don't teach, y'all. I know things that know that
most people don't know. I know that there's a thirty
five year copyright law which after thirty five years, what's
mine comes back to me. I know that in any business,
you're a businessman. In any business, you build an asset, right,

(01:07:29):
And when you build an asset, when you get a
multiple that you're satisfied with, you make that move and
you take that and you invest in other things.

Speaker 6 (01:07:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
So where they've been getting people at for years, it's
telling people wait un till they're old and decrepit, until
they sell the catalog. That's the wrong narrative, right. They've
done that to every I know. A friend of mine
has sold his catalog several times, and how he every

(01:08:00):
time you get a three year MPs, which means good numbers,
three years of good numbers, there's people that want to
buy that. Right, So let me ask you a question.
If it takes me eighty years, Let's say I'm making
a million dollars a year and I'm twenty years old.

(01:08:21):
I'm making a million dollars a year, and you give
me and you give me eighty million dollars at twenty
years old. I would have been one hundred years old
to get that eighty million. Dam give me the eighty now.
I know what to do with that, I know what
to invest in. Give me that now. So I tell

(01:08:44):
people what the real is and what they should know
and they should all like. And one thing that people
don't really talk about is copyright law. A lot of
people don't understand that there is a US copyright law
and every thirty five years you have to do the
work and put the things in motion, but you get
your copyrights back. Now, all my artists that are signing
my label, they own their masters. You feel, I'm saying

(01:09:09):
because and I want him to do the same. I
want I want to be able to tell him when
it's time, Yo, it's time.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
For you to let that go.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Well, why because you got a family and you got
things that you want to do. And trust me, I've
done this over and over again. And what people don't
realize is that a lot of times the press releases
confused people right because they'll say, oh so and so
sell Timulin Solar's catalog so and so justin beables. So
people ain't selling their whole catalogs. Bro like people people

(01:09:40):
not selling with everything. Sometimes you sell increments little things
here and there, right and you and you and you
play the numbers game. You see what those multiples gonna
look like. And if you, if you do the timing
of everything, you say that, Okay, well I'm gonna be
ninety hundred years old, I might be gone. I could
do that. Put that into my children. Now that's how,

(01:10:03):
that's how.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
That's how did you give your ten percent to the church?

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Radley gotta go?

Speaker 6 (01:10:10):
Yeah, yes, I don't even that's the whole debate.

Speaker 5 (01:10:13):
By the way, Now, I don't feel like I got need
no money.

Speaker 6 (01:10:17):
That's the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Can we leave on the prayer? You got any last questions?

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
Can we leave on the prayer?

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
If we might gonna pray, gonna be let him pray?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Wait, hold on.

Speaker 6 (01:10:29):
By the way, by the way, No, but listen, real
real quick though.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
My man John Key June twenty seven, got this project
coming out, and I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:10:36):
Super excited about his project.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
He's gonna get a song on too this morning to
a lot of you know miles a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Yeah, they got a whound album. DJ Head.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
He put me on the Miles a while ago. Now,
like he ain't even the funny thing. He didn't even
tell me that Miles was a faith based artist. Yeah,
he just said, you're listening to this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:10:52):
He is a big advocate of just saying putting in
the frontcause you know, people gotta uh, there's a stigma
about Christian artists and that they're a certain way, that
they they got to sound a certain way. And so
like when when you hear people that sound like Miles
or sound like me, or sound like Indie Tribe or
no Big Deal whatever, you know what I'm saying, Like, uh,
they're like, oh wait, hold up, this is Christian and

(01:11:14):
it's like everything you're like, dag, I didn't know it
was like that, because the thing is, it's like, you
know what I'm saying, those of us who do it
well are not on a mission to make a genre
of Christian music. We're just making music and we're Christians,
so we're not gonna rap or sing about stuff that's

(01:11:36):
not our life, you know what I'm saying. So like,
but that's also why, like you know what he said,
Like in my music, I'm always I'm gonna tell you, like, yeah,
I was struggling with you know, the thoughts to take
my life since I was eleven years old. I'm gonna
talk about that, and it's not gonna be the happy
rainbows and sunshine.

Speaker 7 (01:11:54):
Yo.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (01:11:55):
When you get life with Jesus, everything is just good
and it's like, na, like, let's talk about real life
because people live real life and you know they don't
they don't understand what what uh what Life with Jesus
is like you know what I'm saying. So it's like
we fall in love, you know what I'm saying, We
get angry. We I'm saying like there's a there's all
kinds of stuff that goes on, and it's like, you

(01:12:16):
know what I'm saying, if you making music that's Christian
music and it's only uh worship, and it's like, well,
if I'm you know what I'm saying, If if I
want to listen to love songs, then I got to
go listen to the wildness that's out there right now.
I'm saying debauchery or whatever, because ain't no love songs
that like can still be about what I'm saying a

(01:12:38):
person loving another person, but from a point of view
someone who who understands that these things are echoes of God,
you know. And so yeah, you know what I'm saying,
that's me. But yeah, me and Miles just just did something.
And then uh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:12:52):
Okay, you got your own festival Holy Smoke.

Speaker 8 (01:12:55):
Yeah, we got a festival Holy Smoke. That's August fourteenth
through sixteenth in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my brothers an
indie tribe. No big deal of the Iceberg Troy Deshaun,
Mikelvie with a.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah on me. You have to experience it because then
it would make you understand what it's all about. For real.

Speaker 6 (01:13:15):
If y'all want to come.

Speaker 7 (01:13:17):
That's Christian I will pay for y'all to Christian Weed
like that.

Speaker 8 (01:13:25):
You come to us. We did a year where like
you know, because it's it's fully operated, it's fully artists
owned and operated, right, So it's us who do it,
and I'm in charge of the creative direction for it.
And this year or not this year. A couple of
years ago we did like a whole like green like
kind of thing, you know what I'm saying. Like that
was like the colors for it. So I was like,

(01:13:45):
what I thought y'all was Christian?

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
This is is a weed fest.

Speaker 8 (01:13:49):
I was like, what is a weed fast?

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Why does it?

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
What does that even mean?

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:13:53):
No, it's not no, but you're saying a lot of
people of us suggested that to us, We're gonna go
ahead and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Not do it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
Let's play a recommend what you want to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
From me?

Speaker 8 (01:14:10):
Oh, man, I don't know what that's out?

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Whatever you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Put the records on the char Okay, we do Club
It's a song with him and Mobs minute from the
West Indies project called Club do It.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
We'll get into it now, but now we got closed
out with a prayer.

Speaker 8 (01:14:25):
Brothers man, Hey, what's up God?

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
And I'm playing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Father.

Speaker 8 (01:14:30):
We thank you for this time, just uh you know,
being able to sit down and talk talk about things
that uh you know, concern you, because it all concerns you, Father,
So we just thank you for that. We thank you
for uh you know open hearts. Just asked that you
would uh plant any seeds that that you you know,
wanted to plant during this conversation, and that yeah, you
would just be present with us the rest of the
day of Jesus.

Speaker 4 (01:14:51):
Man Rodney Jerks the legend. Congratulations again, Songwriters Hall of.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Fame, John Keith Rodney Jerkins. It's the Breakfast Club good
morning

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Wake that airs up early in the morning at Breakfast
Club