The Breakfast Club Sits Down With RZA To Discuss Wu-Tang Final Chamber Tour, Cultural Leaders In Hip-Hop, Time Capsule, Aaliyah. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is the j Envy Jesse, Larry Charlamage, the guy.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The building, the legend Rizza. He's your back bound back
in the building. How you feeling, brother, I feel super great.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, everything is lovely. I see you guys are
back on tour.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yes, indeed, Wu Tang Clan. The Final Chamber.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
How difficult was that to put together?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, you know, it's uh not as difficult as it
used to be, you know what I mean, but now
this is our last chance to run around the globe together,
and uh yeah, it kind of was. Everybody you know,
agreed that it was the time we started thinking of
a name. Everybody's like this one that that that the
Final Chamber And with that we are Why the Final
(00:48):
Chamber though, Like, how do you know you're putting the
period on this? Is it just for the tour just
Wu Tang in general? Oh? No, for the Wu Tangs's
why that's why we see that. We put that Wu
Tang forever in there, because it's you know, who tank
is beyond just our physical presence of it, you know,
what I mean. But far as us coming together and
coming to your city, all non members on stage, you
(01:10):
know what I mean. You know, when you get your ticket,
you're getting all that. You're getting that, you know what
I mean, because sometimes you go to a Woo show
you might get four five, you know what I mean.
So it's just like now here, we all are clear
your schedule for this, you know what I mean, And
it's running around the globe one more time together. So
we'll start right here in America, give it to you know,
then shoot across the water, you know what I mean,
(01:31):
show some love and just you know, kind of the
best way I can say it is take off that
it's kind of a burden to all come together because
everybody got a life, a job, or something going on
in their lives. And so what we said when that
that sign go up, we all come and the sign
went up, and everybody said, did the Residency make it
(01:52):
easier for everybody to say, Yo, we can do this
the residency health But even at the Residency we have
some absentees, you know what I mean. But it really
helped because it really helped just that consistency of coming together,
the consistency of our brotherhood. Our brotherhood really never never
diminished over the years. And I think for Wu Tang
(02:13):
we represent community unity. You gotta that's that's you know,
so many of us was inspired by Ya the Woo.
It's like, you know, your whole neighborhood on stage, you
know what I mean. And I think that we could
use that right now. I think you know what I mean,
like even autistically for the for the culture, you could
(02:33):
come in and look at the example of the wool. Yeah,
so the time is now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Does it financially makes sense? And the reason I asked
said all eight members, you got DJs, you got everybody
comes to at least one person security or whatever that means.
So that's a lot of money to put out. But
you know, Wu Tang is always, you know, for the hood.
So I'm sure you guys are not charging astronomical prices.
So financially, was it a financial thing? Is one of
those things? Was like, we just need to do this
regardless of finance.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh, the finances. The finance is so beautiful because if
you take a moment right just be and think about
the Wu Tang legacy and think about how many families
it's eating off of that legacy, you know what I mean.
I'm talking about thousands, right. That legacy has went on
from the music to sparking other em c's to figure
(03:23):
out their careers, to inspire other producers and mcs to
and DJs to get up and say, Yo, I'm a DJ.
Now gonna so. And then when you go on a tour,
you know, I mean our tour. You know, I just
saw the tour bus count got about eight buses. That's
(03:44):
crazy to tell you, and then all the trucks. You know,
the production for this tour is crazy. We took time
to really produce something. You know, since the New York
state of mind, we've only kept elevating the level of production.
So it's going to be it's so many families, you know,
union workers, truck drivers, caterers, I mean, the security, it's
(04:10):
a it's a it's a it's a it's a village
that's going to eat off of this. And that's that's
the beauty of it in all reality. What's the differ
between torring has grown men versus when you're always younger. Yeah,
that's a good question. I think, like as many you
men right before you trying to get shortage of line
outside your door. You're kind of touring for the experience
of of you know, sex, drugs and rock and roll. Right,
(04:34):
But now you know, you're you're, you're, you're moving with maturity,
and I think you really I can speak for myself
to some of the one talking. I think I really
can understand the impact of what the music do and
what it means. Right when somebody hears I grew up
on the crime side of the New York Times, and
(04:56):
and they they relate that back to their life having
secondhand you know what I mean. Even though a lot
of us is doing better, a lot of us is
doing worse, you know what I mean. So I think
that as a man touring around the world and showing
our culture, it's more meaning meaningful than ever. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I've seen in an interview that you said you went
to each member and said, what do you want to
be on this tour? What do you need? And you
was able to give everybody that. How difficult was that?
And was there anybody that you couldn't give what they wanted?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now, at the end of the day, you know, you gotta,
you know, be satisfied, right, So we know we do
with mathematics, right, and we know that that when there's dissatisfaction,
it breathes confusion, right. They say, you know, even with
seventy percent of the people were satisfied, the other thirty
(05:48):
percent was dissatisfied, and that other thirty percent winning started
their own shit and now you got competition. So you
got to strive to resatisfaction. And satisfaction is when someone
can say yoh for me. You know, I don't care
if it's just like yo, I just want Banana's every
night and my dressing what he wants. You know what
I mean. It's accommodate that it's accommodate the comfortability because
(06:13):
I think I know I see it different. My brother
de Vne see it different. Our whole management team. We
know that when you are going out on the road,
you leave in your family, you know what I mean,
You're leaving with you your routine of life. And so
we want to make you as comfortable as possible. So
this becomes a moment of joy versus a moment of work.
(06:34):
Are you confident that every single member is going to
show up for the show. I mean I'm confident for
confidence sake, and I mean of course I'm confident, you
know what I mean. But you know, this is life,
you know what I mean. You can make a wrong
turn on the ninety five, end up in a small
town for the night, you know what I mean. But nah,
I mean far as the intention, right, it's all about
intention and the intention. Everybody is intending to be here.
(06:57):
So if there's the glitch in the matrix, you know,
we're deal with it. And then and there's an album
to come with this too. No no, no, I mean
a lot of Mathematics has a new album that he
he's he put together called Black Sansum uh uh. He
got a new song called Mandingo. He took all like
the Black Exploitation and Kung Fu movies and did an
album and got the entire Wu Tang clan MC's on it,
(07:20):
got Benny the Butcher cool g just just one of
those a lot of Mathematics albums. It's that's dope, and
he so that that's just ironically it is coming out
around the same time. But it wasn't like it wasn't
it wasn't like it was a strategy plan. It was
just like he finished it at the time. When the when,
(07:40):
the when the tour is about to happen, so that's
a blessing for him. And then I did hear I
can say this on the air. I did hear some
of Ray Kwan's new album too. He's yeah, yeah, one
of those. Yeah, I'm excited. So hopefully he gets that
album before the tour drops. And and uh, are you
(08:02):
involved in raisonal album? Just you know from the abbot,
you know what I mean, it comes to the temple
and see if the abbot, you know, wanting to add
some flavor to it or get some wisdom or advice,
you know what I mean. But he's the foundation of it.
He came to me right during the holidays when he
felt like he had a nice I just call it
(08:24):
a body of work, your body of work. I was
gonna call it dough like piece of dope, the mold,
that's you know what I mean. But yeah, now and
we vibed out listen to it twice and then say ah,
yeah I had some vision and get shared my vision.
But you know that's it. It's him doing it is
always you know, he's a general always you know know
how to lead hisself. But then it also as a general,
(08:45):
you know, as wise as the check in with the
abbot and be like, yo, your abbot, what's your what's
your two cents? On this? The thing would raise music.
You gotta clean your palate whenever you listen to any
new Red Quorn album. And when I mean clean your palate,
you can't have no purple tape on your mind, because
the purple tap set the ball. It's extremely high. It's
probably it might be the greatest hip hop album of
all time. It's in that conversation, one of those absolutely
(09:08):
just in that conversation. Well, one thing about him, it's
a few MC's right in our in our business that
just when they open their mouth, it sounds like a record.
Nas is one of course, you know the biggie was
one Jay Ray ghost ghosts. But no matter what, like
when you hear them, you hear a record, you snoop,
(09:28):
you hear them, you hear a record, you know what
I mean? And so on on this on this new music,
it's just like he's choosing unique ways, unique tracks. But
as soon as his voice come in, it's like, oh,
it's a record, you know what I mean? Was it difficult?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Who was the most difficult to get to do this?
And not because of them being difficult, but maybe because
of scheduling.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, you got Meth.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
That's acting, you're acting and producing. You got Ray Corn
that owns a bunch of businesses, and these brothers leaving
their families.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Who was the most difficult to get?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was like, this is gonna be a little tough.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I mean, if anyone, if anyone else, uh, you know,
I won't say difficult, but let's just say. You know,
like you know, who does the most shows out of
all of us who know the who were listen to
Jesus he's like a jazz musician, yo, like his skep.
(10:20):
It's like you call him yo, want to do the
resident Say, oh, I got forty shows I'm going to Europe,
or Yo, I'm going to twenty shows in Canada. Wow,
he just I mean he stays that Liquids Forward album
arguably one of the best hip hop albums of all
time too, it's just go go. So you got to
check his schedule because he's definitely knocking a hundred one
(10:44):
hundred hundred fifty shows out a year, and so we
actually have to pace and wait from it. And I
had to wait for Yeah, I give him a calls
like like, I'll just schedule for this year, like you
know what I mean. He was like, I'm good. I
didn't I need this much time and Bunk Bung me
(11:04):
as well. I want to get back to the tour.
I want to ask you about Liquid So since were
on it, because we was having a whole debate last
night in the group chat just about Wu Tang songs
Wu Tang music because you know, my guy beat Out
put out a top ten greatest Wu Tang records and
and on Liquid Swords Cold World it goes Co World
Labels Fourth Chamber in the shadow boxing. That's probably one
(11:26):
of the greatest sequences on an album. Do you do
you remember arranging that? Yeah, definitely, definitely that was my
That's that's one of my specialties. I think, not knowing then, right,
the natural ability of editor edit editing, or or having
a through line of storytelling. Right. But it was always
(11:46):
been my personality and at that time it was only
expressed music. Now was being expressed and I direct films
and TV shows and all that, but it was it
was it was the same type of energy, like I
could feel the way it goes. I can feel like
when the listener is listening. It's like, oh yo, I
want your emotion to rise up, get them up. By
(12:08):
the time you got the Fourth Chamber, you you driving,
you you might get a ticket, you know what I mean?
And I wanted you know, you know you feel that
right here? Yeah, I always strive to get that feeling
to have your spine for that, I said lyrics, I
said mark to the wooden soldier to see cycle punks
(12:29):
ride the hold. It's a thousand and holds to the square.
We stand through like flair escaped from the dragons lair.
In particular, my beats travel like a vortex up your
spine to the top of your That's that's my that's
my goal to hit you bam And I'm good. What
do I time you listening to your verse on Fourth Chamber?
Because it's so relevant to today. That's why I mean, nah,
(12:51):
I mean I've been I'm back into the study of
what of everything over right now? You know this tour, folksore,
we got special guests under je Jews and so it's
like this is gonna be a lyrical tool, you know
what I mean. It's gonna be one of those tours
that you know you're gonna get your sweat off guarantee
you gonna get your jumps, You're gonna get your your classics.
But it's gonna be those moments you're gonna be like.
(13:15):
I needed that, you know what I mean, because because
you know words in the beginning was the word, and
the word became flesh, you know what I mean. And
so those words are healing, you know what I mean.
It's like and and you know we needed. I had
something I was gonna say to y'all this morning. A
law segregation and discrimination is a sickness to any nation.
(13:36):
When you deny a portion of the population the chance
to experience the elevation, it will only lead to the
decimation of your system and the next generation will pay
for the mistake that will result in economic inflation, ghetto living,
and it's in black Latinos and European immigrants stuffed inside
housing tenements, low income recipients. They gotta choose between the
(13:59):
food or the rent. Neighborhoods are cramped like pow camps
and X mark the spot where the incitious policies were stamped.
Bad health, increase in bad policing, and the's gentrification that
Michael and Brad is leasing at night. They feel fright
from the dimly lit street lights. My man, gee, he
could beef and fight, but he couldn't eat right. Loud
(14:22):
sounds echoing gunshots. He couldn't sleep right. While what a
life when your life ain't worried for a loaf of
bread or a box of white rice. Yeah, blessed be
the meek. It's attorney of the cheek. But j Bonde
just knocked them out with a sneaky right and put
them off his feet. It could come last, it could
come fast. In the blast knock your senses back to
(14:43):
the past. It's like old popping sounds, a big brass
section you hear from old jazz. Me I stick to
a piano key speak from a low a minor to
a soprano. E bob, it's the abodem C. What's different.
That's something just there city money. That's something I was saying,
(15:04):
share something here in the in the in the phone,
in the phone book.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You're getting back in the booth.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Didn't because it sounds like you you ready, it ain't
you know whether it's in the booth or not. This tour,
like I said, this is like this is that moment
for for the WO to that w that wisdom that
you that unpredictability, like let's let's get that back into
the system. You know, I honestly feel that WO is
(15:29):
like a part of hip hop culture that's needed, you
know what I mean. And whether we could be the
ones that continue to physically do it, or some young
brothers are listening, they pick it up and they come
and bring that wave like there's a there's some young
brothers I know, Coach Contra, I've been seeing them. Yeah,
you know what I mean, good flows, good style, good everything.
(15:49):
If they once they start injecting a little more wisdom
into that, you know what I mean. You know, hip
hop needs that, you know what I mean. It ain't
all just about uh you know, all our money, guns
and sex and drugs, you know what I mean. That's
a portion of it, but it's not the it's not
all of it. I saw you say something recently where
you said Hot ninety seven Bannon Wutang's music contributed to
(16:12):
I guess, not just the decline of the group, but
just the decline of New York sound and every ante.
I mean, you know, we could date that, you know
what I mean, We could look at it and see
it happening. Because when you're dealing with business, right, like
all of us, you know, we we got jobs, right,
and so we got to come in and do our job.
If the dude say they paint it blue, and you
(16:32):
the painter, you got painted blue, right, even though you know,
like man, this blue was gonna really turn everybody away,
or its really the paint got let in it or whatever,
you still got to stick to the job. And I
think like at that time, you know, and even maybe
people were scared to fight for each other, you know
what I mean, And that's been one of our issues
(16:53):
I think as our culture, right. You know, there was
a point when the culture started because of money, we
did started accepting each other. I remember when when like
Master peeing them will come to New York and we
accepted that, you know what I mean, when Dre and
Snoop and Ice Cube, we accepted it. You know, Uh,
first we accept it from the music, right, and that
(17:15):
be that's private. But then when the money, when somebody's
blowing money, then you accept it because of the money.
And so now you admire them because of his money,
but not because of his skill, because of the culture,
you know what I mean. So when that starts happening,
it's almost like, uh, now you're you're you're diminished in
the culture because of the money. So, yeah, a dude
could make a hit at the end of the day,
(17:36):
we talk about hip hop hits. Hammer Hammer had hits. Baby, Yeah, okay,
he was. He was going diamond, you know what I mean,
and and and and people didn't accept that as hip
hop for some reason back then, even roasting that, right,
even roasting that And I know I was pretty hard
on him by myself, so I'm not like I wasn't,
(17:58):
you know, because I was on some right, But we
don't even give him his accolades. So he opened the
door at the end of the day, right for commercials,
we did all that. But yeah, yeah you're out Pete
like like see, that's why I say a law is
motion for he gives. He takes a floor, like like
you could take Like, let me give you a quick metaphor.
(18:19):
I won't go too deep, but let's look at you
of our greatest, our greatest artists, right fifty cents right,
and I'm gonna say yay, right, both caught a floor
in their jaw. Right, one from a car, some one
from a tragic street incident, but both now develop a
(18:43):
tone that attracts the world. So from a floor and
the jaw, you know what I mean, a lot blesses
them more. It's like it's like it's like, nah, now
you come back, and it's like this whole swag's whole
everything is. It's sharpened without even knowing, so hip hop itself.
(19:04):
They say the DJ the dude was like he said
he was in his crib, one of the old DJ's right,
he's in the crib and and his mom's coming and
he holds the record. Huh, and she's like, you know,
turn it down, blah blah blah. It's like holding it
now the scratch is invented. That's crazy, you know what
(19:24):
I mean. From a floor, I remember Easy Mob was
talking to was doing a similar siminar. I was there,
was gambling Hugh and he was saying like, Yo, how
do you guys get that one part of the song
that that that high hat? I think, and for the
Love of Money or one of their songs like those
hard hats, Like when it dropped out right there, I
sampled it. I used it in all my beasts, and
(19:46):
I think mister Gamble was like, oh that was a mistake. Wow.
So even from a mistake, right, we've given a chance
to to to to multiply and to make something great.
Yeah what was yours? Man? So many? To be quite frank,
it's just like sometimes you could go to your to
(20:07):
your to your beat machine and it's just glitches out,
you know what I mean. I feel like method man.
Uh the original drum where it happened was almost like
a glitch out. But I liked it. I just like
I just did not just immolated it. I immolated the mistake,
you know what I mean. But I think it was
(20:27):
not that the THEA, thea, like that's the that's the
bounce of it. So then so when a guy like
him got the gut there on the mic, he he
started riding his riding his horse, you know what I mean. So,
but there's others too that that that it just happens
like that, you know when it will flow, you know,
I mean even if you think about Shame right, I
(20:49):
mean Dirty came in late to the studio, but he
did that verse right one take and things like shame
with the bow that was like he just I said no, no, no, no,
go through it over soa nah, God, they're gonna love it. Wow.
(21:10):
I was like, all right, he was right, he was exactly.
I mean I actually actually I learned from that. But
one tree through that, but got through all of that.
I mean, that's the one thing about Dirty. If you
could talk about him for a moment, shout out to
y D. B. He'll be on the tour with us.
He'll be on Sunday. That's his son, his first born son,
(21:31):
bar Son. He'll be on the tour doing his father
verses for us. He's been doing it for years and
he's been doing a great job. But one thing about
Dirty he almost never say the same lyric twice. I mean,
say the lyric the same way twice. If he did it,
should show me y'all me yeammy yay next time you
(21:53):
do it. He's not gonna do it like that. He's
almost like a once again, like a jazz musician. He
just goes with the berry, you know what I mean,
and he'll tell he'll he'll say a rhyme that we
wrote when we was fourteen years old, and then he
was saying it during the woo era and eating motherfuckers up.
Because I'll go out the mic and now damager and
(22:13):
listen to his album. That lyric is on the album twice. Yeah, right,
because it was more of a performance, more of a
energy that he would bring versus just the lyrical content.
But he was very special and uh in that uh
and I think he helped bring freedom the hip hop expression. Yeah.
They used to talk about uh. They said Ji used
(22:34):
to write for Dirty sometimes that's true. Yeah, I'm like,
how do you write for dirty? Well that's what called
because we're cousins, right, so that's always That's like at
that table. We used to go to the Jizzer house.
You know, this is poverty days, justin may have just
you know, one box of old mill and we'll go
get some kaiser buns you know New York, that stander Baby,
(23:01):
and we're still stay there for three days on oat
milon kaiser buns, just making pause tapes and write and
writing songs, you know what I mean. Like so even
when it says when the MCS came deliver, we made
that when we was like fourteen fifteen and what we
was doing liquids spars, I was like, yo, let's do
that old routine we did at the table and that
pause tape and we did it and Bong Bong, you
(23:23):
know what do you do you ever.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Remember those records that you lost in the flood. Did
you ever get any of that or we're able to
produce that over or any of that at all?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Nothing ever came back like it like it was. Actually,
I'm glad you mentioned that, Envy. We're gonna there's a
uh we're building this time capsule for the tour, and
we're gonna invite our fans, you know, to come out
and somebody will win every night where you could take
something from your Wu nostalgia or your Woo history and
(23:56):
put it in this time capsule and we all know
we're gonna put it that it somewhere. I may put
it in the museum, but I'm going to collect something
from every you know, city, from somebody. But the first
thing I'm going to put in there, and I'm not
I'm kind of telling you that for the first time
because I was gonna surprise. I'm going to take those
(24:16):
discs that hadn't inspected Decks album. I'm gonna put it
in that time capsule and if somebody find it years
later and open it up and figure out that, you know,
the technology could get all that or whatever is on it.
Shock you don't have that now, there's no technology that
can get that now. It hasn't happened. We took uh
you know Deck's Matt. You know they they snuck a
(24:37):
few out and try to do it. You know what
I mean, because uh, it's on floppy disc yo. You
know what I mean. They took it to like to
the NASA people and then get it, you know what
I mean. Yeah, he's the one who suffered the most
from that flood, right, I would say autistically, yes, you
know what I mean. Economically everybody suffered. You know, it
(24:58):
was two floods. Like I don't know, I was just
I was. I just took it like noah, you know
what I mean, like wash all your shit away. I've
lost more in life than than I've shared. I'm out
of the lost phase. Got a good wife, you know
what I mean, who know how to keep keep life
organized for me and keep the balance. But before yeah,
(25:22):
I was definitely known for losing a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Now, that one album I can't remember his name, that
the gentleman bought. Did you ever get that album back?
Because I know there was a fight to get it
back did you ever get it back?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Not personally, but it's owned by a group of people
called Please to Dial, and it just it continues to
increase in value and have his own life. I mean
they bought it for like four million. Uh, and now
there's people talking about like a whole other thing of
(25:55):
what it could be. So it's kind of one of
those things to have a life of his own.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
We ever gonna it or that's part of the deal
that they can never play it publicly.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Actually, I'm striving now at this phase since since we're
you know, at this age and kind of figure out something.
I mean, the thing was there was like not to
be it can't be commercialized for eighty eight years, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I mean, so it can't be sold, it can't be on,
can't can't be commercialized streaming service.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You could give it away. I told I told missus
Courli that in the beginning, I was like, yo, especially
just to give you a little backstory on that, I
met him before he became the most evilless man in
the world. I remember they had like the most evilest
man in the world. So I met him before he
became lex luthor. You know what I mean, Figure up
(26:44):
and you know, we sat down and he was telling me,
you know, he you know, I'm a wool fan. I
love fifty cent, I love hip hop of May Kwan.
You know some of some of his lyrics has made
me through business things. And he had a whole plan.
He was going to buy this Enigma machine. I don't
know if you know what the Enigma machines. Those are
(27:04):
the decoding machines they used to make uh in World
War Two when they had to figure out in fact
it led to the computer. So he wants to the
and all the turning papers. Who was the guy who
basically invented the computer? He was he was in the
WU album. He was like, I'm gonna get all these
things and he's gonna do something. I was like, okay,
(27:26):
what the you gonna do? But he had a plan.
Whatever he was going to do. Boom. And then when
he when went negative on him, like maybe a few
months later, I saw it on TV. I saw him
on the news. I said, I was telling him my wife, Yo,
that's the guy that'd be selling the album too. I
wouldn't sell it to him. I said, oh no, it's
already like a deal. Even though it wasn't the money
(27:47):
didn't exchange hands. It was already a deal and was
in contract for him. So I was say, nah, I
mean I sat down with him, I told him yes
and so so now that it's at the day that
he gets it and know he got a lot of
security everything, you know, and they kind of he had
some big dudes with him, and uh, I just said,
(28:07):
let me talk to him moment by himself committing kid,
He's still a kid to me, And I'm like, yo, listen,
if I was you, I was just get us a
way to the world, like do something good because people
were saying, like you're bad right now. He was like
just smiled at me and went worse. Yeah. So but
(28:29):
I think that that would be a beautiful thing if
if it was a way to give it or you know, yeah,
I just think it's it'll be nice to share it.
You know. If Wu Tang was starting to day, how
do you think the industry would treat a group like
Wu Tang. I think we'll still break through one we wasn't,
you know, remember we came through also like we would
(28:50):
rush in the building too. Now. So even though actually
think they built the building security because of Wu tang.
I'm sure Remotle, you can walk into a label like
get in the elevator.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Now before there was no front.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You can just go right upstairs.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, man, Now boy, you know what security downstairs and man, you.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Got all types of But it's like, you know what
I mean, black age, No, but no, no, I think
beyond all that, right, I think the talent. Man, look
at the kind of talent you got in the world.
You can see the talent. The proof of it is
just like even method Man's going to go ahead and
be a star. Ghost is going to go ahead and
be a star, you know what I mean. So it's
(29:32):
just like you couldn't I couldn't deny it. Expect the Deck,
who's up who don't get the credit as he should?
I think far as star level. I mean I won't
to say as far as star level because the fans
go crazy when he comes on stage, but I mean
far as within our industry, separating all those top names
we mentioned. Expect the Deck got some of the best
verses in hip hop history. It's not even close, you
(29:54):
know what I mean. And it's just like, okay, so,
but that talent is right there. His talent is what
the first thing you hear when you hear woo, the
first thing you hear I smoke on the mic, like smoking,
Joe freezing you like and your meeting your ears? Oh wow,
who's this guy? And then you think it's over. Then
another guy comes in he got it going on, like
oh wow, who's this guy? So I think the talent
(30:18):
will always break through, just like just like when you
see other talents, uh in our industry right now that
just have something that you know, know, you know, you
know Tyler in the our future, Tyler the creator and
his whole crew. Like den I couldn't when Frank Ocean
album came out. He was like, oh yo, it was
just on me, Pete.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Now on this tour bus, will there be a studio
on the bus? I'm sure with your mind there will
be a studio on the bus.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, well, actually there's a bush. So John Lennon, right,
John Lennon, his foundation has a bus called the John
Lennon Bus, which they use for a lot of education purposes.
And I had to travel with us on the last tour,
and I'm gonna have a travel in this store. So
it's not only a studio, but it's like when you
use it. It helps kids in the cities and all that,
(31:07):
and they take it around the world and teach music
education and continue John Lennon's legacy. You know, imagine all
the people living life is one right, Yeah, John Lennon,
that was that was crazy. I want to ask you
about the Fourth Chamber versus spit okay, because it's so
relevant today because you talk about you know, government control,
(31:29):
economic inequality, medium manipulation, all of that. Where when you
wrote that, was that prophecy or was that what you
were seeing at the time? A little bit of both? Right?
As an artist, like like, it's easy to say, you
know right now, oh yeah, I have some prophecy, but nah,
but as an artist you post to tap in right,
(31:52):
It's like to be quite frank, everybody is an antenna,
you know what I mean. The chemical is a biochemical
equation of your physical composition is receiving signals. You could
receive a thought right now from your man in la,
you know what I mean. Without this, this is kind
of a proof of us who grew up without having
(32:15):
this much power in our hands, Celliah, right, and that
it still sells all in your body, you know what
I mean. But as an artist, you get a signal,
you feel something. Some people say it woke them out
their sleep and they wrote songs. And yesterday heard Paul
McCartney say, yesterday he woke up. It was in his
dream and that song is forever, right. So I think
(32:38):
that I know that myself as an artist, I would
always just get hit with a joke of electricity and
I would just write. And so of course I was
studying at that time as well. You know, a tune
with mathematics. Mathematics don't lie, you know what I mean.
And it's just like some of the words just you know,
(32:59):
just just come to you and you gotta be grateful
and you let it out. And sometimes when you hear
yourself back, it's not even you're You're actually not. It's
like that recording is sometimes it's not you, you feel me.
It's almost like third person. That's why experience. That's why
I was like Dove Risa, like I mean, it's like
(33:21):
it's like it was it's a title, and even even
that name it came like that. It was like because
I was walking around Prince Rakin, Prince Rakin, it was
like the son was like and I might I might
have had a good smoke that day. I mean, it
was like, yo, dove, risa, what is that? Right? But
if you look at my look at the letters, right,
(33:42):
the R is why Kim said, it's the eighteenth letter
and R is for rule or ruler, So it means
you got to start to rule yourself. But a ruler, right,
it's not just the action of oh, he's the ruler
of the country. You know. A ruler is a measurement
device that you much use to measure everything before you
get into your square. Right. So now if I measure
(34:05):
everything first before I zig, when it's time for me
to zag, which could be going in the wrong direction,
I know I could always zig back and then that
as fa a law and that's that arm leg leg
arm head. And so in my life, I was like,
it was just time for me to be like I
(34:25):
asked to be the rissa. And then then my brother's
just like after we started moving, uh, moving our unit,
shout out the power, shout out to the vine, shut
out to Tarif. Before we start moving our unit, it
was like, yo, you the abbot, you know what I mean?
All right? That's so that's my title with the who
(34:45):
and the Abbot. But the universe gave me that title
the Rissa. So I wonder what you see now, like
when you see things like like ice raids, and then
you think about the Fourth Chamber verse and you was
like a hit was sent from the president to raide
your residents. You know, when you see stuff like the
coronavirus and stuff like that, you say, six million that
was just that from the Buboni flu auto bowla virus.
(35:07):
You're just speaking about this plague that took over, Like,
what do you what do you when you see was
what happened over the years and you think about that verse,
what do you well, yeah, no, I'd be like yo.
At one point, it's like, yeah, the reality is the reality, right,
word time time, words take time to materialize, right m
(35:31):
so and so we're now we're talking probably listeners talk
about Noah. He they said he preached for like three
hundred years. It's telling people, y'all, look, we're gonna have
to build these arcs and get in the water and go.
And they're like, man, first of all, keep in mind
he's in the desert talking him I was gonna rain,
so nobody they can't believe that. But the time for
(35:53):
the world to be materialized. Is the process of going
from a thought to a gas, to a liquid to
a solid manifestation. Right, So you may say something today
that won't manifest hill later. And so some of those
lyrics are that. Right. Even more, I think if you
(36:15):
go into into this song, impossible, oh my god. So
even there, it's like, you know, my verse starts off
with fusion of the five elements, right, which is mental
and physical. Right, and this is before uh, you know,
the strong feminist movement. I was saying that, you know,
(36:37):
women are going to be more celibate. H They're not
going to be messing with us like that. You know
what I'm saying, Ah that something that life will becomes irrelevant.
But the benelovent king will communicate to you through your dream, right,
so the most how he'll hit you through your dream
and give you a mental picture be formed. And then
a laws heard it scene everywhere and you're around the
(36:58):
atmosphere thermis vest by the fear trappersphere. Can you imagine
from one single idea everything appeared here that they're be
like that was a single idea, but it took time
for all that to grow. Scientists say the Big Bang
theory they're talking about I took billions of years. You know,
it's been trillions of years for it to grow, right,
So a mental picture has been playing a lossow seeing
(37:21):
everywhere else. You know, let there be light, and the
light is here. So anyway, sometimes you as an artist, right,
you know, you go back and look at science fiction,
and we watched Genie Roddenberry who created Star Trek, and
we're like, yo, wow, he had the flip phone. The
next thing, you know, the flip phone is in physical
(37:43):
existence versus being an artistic existence. Yeah, you know, it's
funny and you're saying impossible because when b Dot did
these Summer Reason these top ten best Wu Tang songs,
he had number ten Wu Tang and nothing to Fuck
With number nine, Win Awards, number eight, Mystery of Chest Boxing,
number seven, Reunited, number six, it's your number five, protecting
Neck number four? Can it be also simple? Number three?
(38:03):
Ice Cream? Number two? Time number one cream. We started
flaming them in the group check. We just just just
not a good list the list, but they're like very
commercialized right there. But we're saying, impossible is one of
those songs that should be on there? What do you
think of that list. First of all, well, no, the
(38:25):
list is up to the to the list maker, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
But but he gets that list from online. That's people
like that going is online. They hit him while he's
doing the live things, not just that.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And also that list might be the top ten streamers.
At the end of the day, you go and check
the top streamers. But those are the commercialized list. Those
are the ones that are casual fans. Those are the
ones that they Yeah, those are the ones you better perform. Yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean. We come there, you better
hit us, hit us, and look the beautiful thing is
went towards cap came out of nowhere, remember that. I mean,
(38:56):
that's some time ago. But once again, talent. Nobody knew
that this guy, you know what I mean, We knew him,
you know what I mean. I knew that, y'all. He's
one of the dopes mcs on it on Staten Island.
While we was growing up, me and him always had
tapes together, like we had our tapes were circulating before
who had tapes, you know what I mean. That's why
he's like me and reservoir name punting in the tablet
(39:18):
under under under vets. We paid our desks for mad years.
He was like, we was already having tapes. The other
brothers was doing that thing. But he comes out of
the out of the now and uh you God brings
them to the crib and you know, boom. I was
just happy to see him, you know, because capa Donna
is his name at first was original legit, I mean original, right,
(39:41):
So I was the original, you know what I mean.
And he was like, you know, his slang is ridiculous.
I mean he's like, you know Donna. J Bird thinks
that capp of Donna. I was like, it wasn't no
cap of Donna street on Staten Island. Yet like maybe
five years later there's like a cap of Donna name
got the I didn't. I didn't know what cap of
(40:01):
Donna was. Well, I think it's like it's like the
leader of of of of the of the Policethood or
something like that, you know what I mean. Yeah, because
there's a cap of Donna in the Catholic I think
in the Catholic religion there's something that's cap Donna. Yeah,
(40:22):
they had no drums, man. It was like a baseline
missing from winning war. Like when you turn it. No,
the drum, the drum, Yeah, the drums was filtered, was filtered.
The drums was filtered out with something. Something caused the
filter the phase and I left it. That was one
of those mistakes that you were talking about. Yeah, like
the filter phased out, and I was just like, I
(40:43):
just loved the verses and I love the energy of
the vibe of what was happening. But here's a man
that comes out, drops his thirty two bars it wasn't
a sixteen, and goes on to become a gold artist
from one verse. He's just like I would give it
expect a z on Nas like he had one verse
on nas joint, goes on, goes on to become a
(41:07):
yeah yeah it comes on and become a historical hip
hop artist. MC Kwamega. He just had to mention no, yeah,
one love Love, come come home and got a record deal.
That's the that's the power of hip hop. Y'all. How
did you what made y'all let Cappadonna go so long?
Did he write it or he already have it? He
just went in there and did it and just keep it. Yeah,
he just eded out. He aired out. I mean, he
(41:30):
hit it out you can't when you you know, back
in the day when even now, I guess, when you're
hearing something and you just hearing it and it's just
you can't stop listening. It's like it's like when young
Doug and what's like his young Doug Gucci and I
think it's Travis on that song Floyd Floyd Mayweather. It's
(41:52):
a long song. Yeah, I rocked the whole song all
the way through this. They're just they're just going in,
They're just going I'm like, yo, I play that, I'm
headed home. But I mean I still played as long
as probably was five seven years old now, but they
aired it out. It's just like that's what it is.
When you hear something that airs it out. You can't.
You can't, you don't. Don't cut it.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Do you remember some of those legendary battles in the studios,
some of that you people might not know off that
you're there one day and this it might be this
ortist and this, and they just going back and forth
and it's disgusting but great.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean yeah, I mean far as Wool competition. One
thing I love about my brother is that it could
get all the way up to fuck you it could
get that tense and and everything's cool.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Who's the worst with that?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
That always gets personal and it I mean you can
guess that you got yeah the grouch, the grouch come on,
because he's unfiltered. You don't give a fuck, you know
what I mean? And you know yeah, you know yeahay,
Dirty would have been like that too. Oh dirty, But
(43:02):
see what think about? No? The thing about Dirty though, right,
because Dirty was like that, you know what I mean.
I mean, I mean, man, dirty, yeah, but Dirty. I
think with him it was it was it was always
like I guess, like he's like like he'll yeo yeo, yell,
get you, get you hyped up, and then kiss you
(43:25):
on your nose. You see what I mean. That's something
magical about that, you know what I mean? And so
so so for him, it's always like you can't help,
but like that's crazy. I love this dude, yo, you
know what I mean? Well, uie, No, it wasn't no kiss.
It's like it's like it's like this and ship and
(43:48):
actually somebody else does he gotta slot slow it down?
You know what I mean? Who's that person? Who's who's
the It could be anybody like like I think Master Tiller, Uh,
I mean the knife member declinent. I think he's he's
he's he's always been, uh a balancer. Yeah, in fact,
shout out the Master Killer. He's working on a new
(44:09):
album called Balance right now. I think that also. I
think another MC once again. He just had those eight
balls on chest boxing, you know what I mean? But
yet mm hmm built the career. Who's your favorite m and?
Who think? I mean the Jizza is the is, the is,
the is the head man. You know, I argue with
(44:32):
people if you want to argue, you know, and especially
at that time, if you go and check the Jius
lyrics and his catalog the lyrics, I don't think you're
gonna find no other m C. You know that that
have given that compared to him lyrically. I mean I
put as my favorite MC, and and the way that
(44:55):
he approached the mic and and the things that he's done.
You think about label back then, Well, he's using every label,
but he's telling you a cohesive, clear story, you know
what I mean, with metaphors and wit and yeah, and
then he goes on to do it again with Fame,
and then he goes on and do it with Animal Planet.
(45:17):
You know when he did it with Animal Planet, which
was crazy because he just use all the football teams
and we're talking about how the Jaguars against the Lions,
and I was like, yo, that was like justus. He's
d but he takes him It might take him like
a year to write a verse like that. He won't
write it like like ray Hits, you hit the pin
(45:39):
and be done in an hour and it shit be
fly marvelous, fly shit, you know what I mean. The
just it's like he's still working on it, like he
got songs he's still been working on for ten years.
Because he won't. He won't say it if he done,
if he done something quick, he'll do it just because
(45:59):
he asked to do it. But that's not that's not
his best intention as an His intention as an MC
is to make it almost biblical or something like almost
like everything is. There's no filler, no words of feeling
the ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
You know, do we need another another Wou Tang type
group or person to break the mold? Like you think
about when Protecting that came out. That was so unlike
the mold that ever came out right. It was it
was no real hook. There was just versus. It didn't
even start with the verses started what you like, It
was just totally left, but it caught. Do you think
(46:37):
we need something like that to break the mold because
everything is starting to sound monotonous.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, you always need a fresh jold of energy. And
I think we're gonna get it. Man. It's MC's or
artists right now, just that's in their college dorm, or
in their mom's crib or even in the in the projects,
you know, with better equipment than we had right with
his laptop or whatever, and they and they just they're
(47:02):
just cooking and they're gonna come and show us. I
also have a small prediction for hip hop, Like I
think that hip hop will get us. We'll get the
we'll get the it's like before we was. There's been
a lot of dratifying of gangsterism, right, I think hip
(47:24):
hop will now get artists that they don't they was.
They weren't drug dealers, they're not criminals. They've studied this art,
they've studied they lived hip hop in their form uh,
and they're going to bring a wave that won't feel
so threatening. And we had that And I'm not saying
(47:44):
that they wasn't from the streets, right, but think of
Dayla and Trip right, think of Black Sheep and km
D most think of most Death and Tyler, right. But
I was even going earlier than them because they come after.
It goes like that that they kind of most Definitely, Yeah,
you know what I mean. I feel like we just
(48:04):
had that though the last fifteen years. Really if you
think about it, because you think about the Kendricks, the Drakes,
the j Coles, the Willets, the Big Sean, the Chance,
the Rappers, the Raps, these like they not on that
they've been the top guys. And yeah, I guess you're right,
but but I'm still I think it's something else different though,
because they they they I still think it's more like,
(48:26):
how can I put it that it ain't just that
not from the streets, it's it's it's still another spoonful
of that's missing, like another spoonful of like the multi
layer Okay, the fashion of it. Right, So out of
those you name, who has the fashion the fashion I
(48:49):
don't know, maybe I guess maybe maybe, maybe, I don't.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Know know, I mean, it's big fashion and influential. I
don't think any of those guys exactly as far as influence,
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Only maybe a SAP definitely okay, But then a SAP
gives you the streets and the fashion, right you see.
I mean I'm talking about where it'll be. They can
they can fight it because they they've been training their
whole life, uh in some some uh some class. They
(49:20):
could play the instruments because they've been playing the instruments.
They got a college degree because their parents they don't
go to college. They love hip hop. They know they
could quote Slick Rick, you know what I mean, They
could quote Kendrick. You know what I mean, they could
do all of that.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Artists from the hood, but that's not hood, not not
gangs to win to college, got the degree, but study
hip and.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Maybe not from the hood. Maybe he's from the uh college,
that's definitely, that's right, right clods is that uh? But
they're not the fashion definitely not the fashion. No, no, no,
it's so I'm just saying, I think there's a generation
of him that's going to come through that that they
(50:04):
could have been as beautiful as an R and B
artist this use that right, as witty as a hip
hop artist, as focused as a I don't know, it's
is called a fashion artist, right and yet physically powerful
as ghost Face Killer. There's only one.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
There's only one like that, Kanye. He's the only one
that's not from the hood, very fashionable, very influenced. He
was not spitting gangster, but he No, he.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Don't got the physical like he's not intimidating, but but
he but he is a pioneer of that particular that
you gotta like Kendrick though for me, of course. Listen,
one of kendricks first samples on his early songs, it
was he sampled me and I cleared it for free,
(50:55):
you know what I mean? Say I keep that, you
know what I mean? Yeah, And that's listen, he was
it just before he was about to go to the
top of the world. I just heard it. You know
he's spending it's the dope m C. Yeah. I gave
Kendrick the credit ten years ago. I mean, and uh,
and it's only gotten better.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, And Run the Jewels is the perfect fit. But
but why did you choose Run the Jewels? Was it
something that you had him on the roll before.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I was Running jew We did a show with them,
We did two shows with them before and and and
this this may sound like they're like they're like, to me,
running Jewels are like raised against the machine. I think
about that for a moment. They are like, you know,
(51:46):
their lyrics and they're they're having fun of course, but
they're also politically conscious. Their fans are like diehard like
diehard Wolf fans. They and the energy we did. We
did two shows with him. It was like and we
was like, oh, Ship, you know what I mean. It's
(52:06):
like it's like it's like I didn't know how big
raising the machine was because I'm in my bubble. But
when I when when we was in Europe, there was like,
you should go see these guys. And I went and
saw them. I was like, oh, Ship, that's the energy
that I love. Yeah, this put those energies together. It
was the same thing with one of the Jewels. They
(52:27):
had twenty thousand going crazy, you know what I mean.
I was like, oh shit. Even though I know killing
Mike for years, you know, from his first gold album.
Uh you know, of course everybody loved Michael, but just
took Mike on too back in the day. Yeah, yeah, no,
Mike said that just a took him on to a game.
(52:48):
God by the game. Yeah, he said Jesus, He's he said,
just a pioneered them, just one of those dudes that really,
you know, sparked In's brand. But yeah, they did. This
is a this is a nice like I said, this
is a lyrical combination right here, and yeah, we talked
about it for almost a year and then bunk here
(53:08):
living it. What's the most underrated Wu Tang song that
you think deserves more love? And that when y'all performed
on tour, everybody just goes crazy. Well depending where you're at, right,
But I know one Wu Tang songs that definitely seem
like I don't think New York has ever even heard it.
Gravel Pit. Oh of course that was with the video y'all.
(53:29):
Just like the Flintstones and all that. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
all the fur coats and all that. But man, overseas,
you could play it twice in the in the concert,
I love it, Yeah, but in New York play that,
you know what I mean, somebody get mad that come on,
like go to somebody stop frowning at you? Like, yo, God,
who your math? Like doing my verse? Whether the video
(53:56):
or just if you know what it was a it
was a I think it was I think I was reaching.
I was like, I attempted to make a song in
the reserve way that was like poppy commercial radio. Yeah,
but we never needed that, I know, but I didn't
know what the hi of the backstory of that song
(54:16):
real quick, know that song was. It was it was
meant for Leah. So Leah, we was in the studio,
you know, we talked about it and I said, I
wanted to have this whole Flenchtone concept and have you
dressed up like like Betty, Yeah, like pebbles, pebbles, but
you know, because a little you know, such in great
shape and all that. And I just had this whole
(54:38):
plan and she was to be like, yeah, we agreed,
and it just you know, things went when Yeah, so
she was gonna sing over that beat and everything. Wow,
and imagine how on it yeah, because it was more
dancey and I get what you're saying. Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Was there any other artists that you guys worked with
that just never came to Fruition.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
X or not? I think not Wu Tang Clan itself,
but I think, you know, all the members then blessed
with everybody. But on the album called the On the
W's the What's the album where it's the only Wu
Tang album that was like, yo, let's let it. Let
our brothers in some peers in so Bosters on itg
(55:25):
Is on it, Snoopers on it, Batman is on it,
you know what I mean? And those is you know
Wo Cousins members. Yeah. Yeah. My last question man, you
talked about the importance of discipline and self mastery throughout
your entire career. Why is that so important for people
to have in the industry now, because I feel like
it's the lack of it. Yeah, definitely. You know, if
(55:48):
you don't know the ledge like knowledge yourself, know the ledge,
you're going to fall off the edge. And it's really
as simple as that. You know, your health is your wealth,
all the things. You know. Being the youngest fun so
they come in our coming the industry. You know, they're young.
It's exciting, you know, I mean the blue pill, red pill,
yellow pill, you know what I mean. And you know
(56:09):
and and and you got and live. But you know,
since everything is more potent, you know what I mean,
And everything is like, uh, before we could take ten
years to take you out, could take you out now
one year. That's that just like just like the information.
Before it took forever to get the information. Now you
(56:30):
could just press the button. It's the same thing with negativity,
and so I would tell I was just shout out
all my young artists out there or even mature artists.
Definitely take time to build yourself, build your mind. Don't
get too caught up in it, you know what I mean.
Look at this as as as as your work as
your love, but keep yourself and your family first. We
(56:53):
had think you.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Appreciate you for joining us. The tickets are on sale
right now, get your tickets.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Appreciate you, Rizz, appreciate you too, brother. It's the Breakfast Club.
It's Rizzo Bong Bong. Wake that ass up Earth in
the morning. The Breakfast Club. M hm.
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is the j Envy Jesse, Larry Charlamage, the guy.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The building, the legend Rizza. He's your back bound back
in the building. How you feeling, brother, I feel super great.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, everything is lovely. I see you guys are
back on tour.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yes, indeed, Wu Tang Clan. The Final Chamber.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
How difficult was that to put together?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, you know, it's uh not as difficult as it
used to be, you know what I mean, but now
this is our last chance to run around the globe together,
and uh yeah, it kind of was. Everybody you know,
agreed that it was the time we started thinking of
a name. Everybody's like this one that that that the
Final Chamber And with that we are Why the Final
(00:48):
Chamber though, Like, how do you know you're putting the
period on this? Is it just for the tour just
Wu Tang in general? Oh? No, for the Wu Tangs's
why that's why we see that. We put that Wu
Tang forever in there, because it's you know, who tank
is beyond just our physical presence of it, you know,
what I mean. But far as us coming together and
coming to your city, all non members on stage, you
(01:10):
know what I mean. You know, when you get your ticket,
you're getting all that. You're getting that, you know what
I mean, because sometimes you go to a Woo show
you might get four five, you know what I mean.
So it's just like now here, we all are clear
your schedule for this, you know what I mean, And
it's running around the globe one more time together. So
we'll start right here in America, give it to you know,
then shoot across the water, you know what I mean,
(01:31):
show some love and just you know, kind of the
best way I can say it is take off that
it's kind of a burden to all come together because
everybody got a life, a job, or something going on
in their lives. And so what we said when that
that sign go up, we all come and the sign
went up, and everybody said, did the Residency make it
(01:52):
easier for everybody to say, Yo, we can do this
the residency health But even at the Residency we have
some absentees, you know what I mean. But it really
helped because it really helped just that consistency of coming together,
the consistency of our brotherhood. Our brotherhood really never never
diminished over the years. And I think for Wu Tang
(02:13):
we represent community unity. You gotta that's that's you know,
so many of us was inspired by Ya the Woo.
It's like, you know, your whole neighborhood on stage, you
know what I mean. And I think that we could
use that right now. I think you know what I mean,
like even autistically for the for the culture, you could
(02:33):
come in and look at the example of the wool. Yeah,
so the time is now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Does it financially makes sense? And the reason I asked
said all eight members, you got DJs, you got everybody
comes to at least one person security or whatever that means.
So that's a lot of money to put out. But
you know, Wu Tang is always, you know, for the hood.
So I'm sure you guys are not charging astronomical prices.
So financially, was it a financial thing? Is one of
those things? Was like, we just need to do this
regardless of finance.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh, the finances. The finance is so beautiful because if
you take a moment right just be and think about
the Wu Tang legacy and think about how many families
it's eating off of that legacy, you know what I mean.
I'm talking about thousands, right. That legacy has went on
from the music to sparking other em c's to figure
(03:23):
out their careers, to inspire other producers and mcs to
and DJs to get up and say, Yo, I'm a DJ.
Now gonna so. And then when you go on a tour,
you know, I mean our tour. You know, I just
saw the tour bus count got about eight buses. That's
(03:44):
crazy to tell you, and then all the trucks. You know,
the production for this tour is crazy. We took time
to really produce something. You know, since the New York
state of mind, we've only kept elevating the level of production.
So it's going to be it's so many families, you know,
union workers, truck drivers, caterers, I mean, the security, it's
(04:10):
a it's a it's a it's a it's a village
that's going to eat off of this. And that's that's
the beauty of it in all reality. What's the differ
between torring has grown men versus when you're always younger. Yeah,
that's a good question. I think, like as many you
men right before you trying to get shortage of line
outside your door. You're kind of touring for the experience
of of you know, sex, drugs and rock and roll. Right,
(04:34):
But now you know, you're you're, you're, you're moving with maturity,
and I think you really I can speak for myself
to some of the one talking. I think I really
can understand the impact of what the music do and
what it means. Right when somebody hears I grew up
on the crime side of the New York Times, and
(04:56):
and they they relate that back to their life having
secondhand you know what I mean. Even though a lot
of us is doing better, a lot of us is
doing worse, you know what I mean. So I think
that as a man touring around the world and showing
our culture, it's more meaning meaningful than ever. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I've seen in an interview that you said you went
to each member and said, what do you want to
be on this tour? What do you need? And you
was able to give everybody that. How difficult was that?
And was there anybody that you couldn't give what they wanted?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now, at the end of the day, you know, you gotta,
you know, be satisfied, right, So we know we do
with mathematics, right, and we know that that when there's dissatisfaction,
it breathes confusion, right. They say, you know, even with
seventy percent of the people were satisfied, the other thirty
(05:48):
percent was dissatisfied, and that other thirty percent winning started
their own shit and now you got competition. So you
got to strive to resatisfaction. And satisfaction is when someone
can say yoh for me. You know, I don't care
if it's just like yo, I just want Banana's every
night and my dressing what he wants. You know what
I mean. It's accommodate that it's accommodate the comfortability because
(06:13):
I think I know I see it different. My brother
de Vne see it different. Our whole management team. We
know that when you are going out on the road,
you leave in your family, you know what I mean,
You're leaving with you your routine of life. And so
we want to make you as comfortable as possible. So
this becomes a moment of joy versus a moment of work.
(06:34):
Are you confident that every single member is going to
show up for the show. I mean I'm confident for
confidence sake, and I mean of course I'm confident, you
know what I mean. But you know, this is life,
you know what I mean. You can make a wrong
turn on the ninety five, end up in a small
town for the night, you know what I mean. But nah,
I mean far as the intention, right, it's all about
intention and the intention. Everybody is intending to be here.
(06:57):
So if there's the glitch in the matrix, you know,
we're deal with it. And then and there's an album
to come with this too. No no, no, I mean
a lot of Mathematics has a new album that he
he's he put together called Black Sansum uh uh. He
got a new song called Mandingo. He took all like
the Black Exploitation and Kung Fu movies and did an
album and got the entire Wu Tang clan MC's on it,
(07:20):
got Benny the Butcher cool g just just one of
those a lot of Mathematics albums. It's that's dope, and
he so that that's just ironically it is coming out
around the same time. But it wasn't like it wasn't
it wasn't like it was a strategy plan. It was
just like he finished it at the time. When the when,
(07:40):
the when the tour is about to happen, so that's
a blessing for him. And then I did hear I
can say this on the air. I did hear some
of Ray Kwan's new album too. He's yeah, yeah, one
of those. Yeah, I'm excited. So hopefully he gets that
album before the tour drops. And and uh, are you
(08:02):
involved in raisonal album? Just you know from the abbot,
you know what I mean, it comes to the temple
and see if the abbot, you know, wanting to add
some flavor to it or get some wisdom or advice,
you know what I mean. But he's the foundation of it.
He came to me right during the holidays when he
felt like he had a nice I just call it
(08:24):
a body of work, your body of work. I was
gonna call it dough like piece of dope, the mold,
that's you know what I mean. But yeah, now and
we vibed out listen to it twice and then say ah,
yeah I had some vision and get shared my vision.
But you know that's it. It's him doing it is
always you know, he's a general always you know know
how to lead hisself. But then it also as a general,
(08:45):
you know, as wise as the check in with the
abbot and be like, yo, your abbot, what's your what's
your two cents? On this? The thing would raise music.
You gotta clean your palate whenever you listen to any
new Red Quorn album. And when I mean clean your palate,
you can't have no purple tape on your mind, because
the purple tap set the ball. It's extremely high. It's
probably it might be the greatest hip hop album of
all time. It's in that conversation, one of those absolutely
(09:08):
just in that conversation. Well, one thing about him, it's
a few MC's right in our in our business that
just when they open their mouth, it sounds like a record.
Nas is one of course, you know the biggie was
one Jay Ray ghost ghosts. But no matter what, like
when you hear them, you hear a record, you snoop,
(09:28):
you hear them, you hear a record, you know what
I mean? And so on on this on this new music,
it's just like he's choosing unique ways, unique tracks. But
as soon as his voice come in, it's like, oh,
it's a record, you know what I mean? Was it difficult?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Who was the most difficult to get to do this?
And not because of them being difficult, but maybe because
of scheduling.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, you got Meth.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
That's acting, you're acting and producing. You got Ray Corn
that owns a bunch of businesses, and these brothers leaving
their families.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Who was the most difficult to get?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was like, this is gonna be a little tough.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I mean, if anyone, if anyone else, uh, you know,
I won't say difficult, but let's just say. You know,
like you know, who does the most shows out of
all of us who know the who were listen to
Jesus he's like a jazz musician, yo, like his skep.
(10:20):
It's like you call him yo, want to do the
resident Say, oh, I got forty shows I'm going to Europe,
or Yo, I'm going to twenty shows in Canada. Wow,
he just I mean he stays that Liquids Forward album
arguably one of the best hip hop albums of all
time too, it's just go go. So you got to
check his schedule because he's definitely knocking a hundred one
(10:44):
hundred hundred fifty shows out a year, and so we
actually have to pace and wait from it. And I
had to wait for Yeah, I give him a calls
like like, I'll just schedule for this year, like you
know what I mean. He was like, I'm good. I
didn't I need this much time and Bunk Bung me
(11:04):
as well. I want to get back to the tour.
I want to ask you about Liquid So since were
on it, because we was having a whole debate last
night in the group chat just about Wu Tang songs
Wu Tang music because you know, my guy beat Out
put out a top ten greatest Wu Tang records and
and on Liquid Swords Cold World it goes Co World
Labels Fourth Chamber in the shadow boxing. That's probably one
(11:26):
of the greatest sequences on an album. Do you do
you remember arranging that? Yeah, definitely, definitely that was my
That's that's one of my specialties. I think, not knowing then, right,
the natural ability of editor edit editing, or or having
a through line of storytelling. Right. But it was always
(11:46):
been my personality and at that time it was only
expressed music. Now was being expressed and I direct films
and TV shows and all that, but it was it
was it was the same type of energy, like I
could feel the way it goes. I can feel like
when the listener is listening. It's like, oh yo, I
want your emotion to rise up, get them up. By
(12:08):
the time you got the Fourth Chamber, you you driving,
you you might get a ticket, you know what I mean?
And I wanted you know, you know you feel that
right here? Yeah, I always strive to get that feeling
to have your spine for that, I said lyrics, I
said mark to the wooden soldier to see cycle punks
(12:29):
ride the hold. It's a thousand and holds to the square.
We stand through like flair escaped from the dragons lair.
In particular, my beats travel like a vortex up your
spine to the top of your That's that's my that's
my goal to hit you bam And I'm good. What
do I time you listening to your verse on Fourth Chamber?
Because it's so relevant to today. That's why I mean, nah,
(12:51):
I mean I've been I'm back into the study of
what of everything over right now? You know this tour, folksore,
we got special guests under je Jews and so it's
like this is gonna be a lyrical tool, you know
what I mean. It's gonna be one of those tours
that you know you're gonna get your sweat off guarantee
you gonna get your jumps, You're gonna get your your classics.
But it's gonna be those moments you're gonna be like.
(13:15):
I needed that, you know what I mean, because because
you know words in the beginning was the word, and
the word became flesh, you know what I mean. And
so those words are healing, you know what I mean.
It's like and and you know we needed. I had
something I was gonna say to y'all this morning. A
law segregation and discrimination is a sickness to any nation.
(13:36):
When you deny a portion of the population the chance
to experience the elevation, it will only lead to the
decimation of your system and the next generation will pay
for the mistake that will result in economic inflation, ghetto living,
and it's in black Latinos and European immigrants stuffed inside
housing tenements, low income recipients. They gotta choose between the
(13:59):
food or the rent. Neighborhoods are cramped like pow camps
and X mark the spot where the incitious policies were stamped.
Bad health, increase in bad policing, and the's gentrification that
Michael and Brad is leasing at night. They feel fright
from the dimly lit street lights. My man, gee, he
could beef and fight, but he couldn't eat right. Loud
(14:22):
sounds echoing gunshots. He couldn't sleep right. While what a
life when your life ain't worried for a loaf of
bread or a box of white rice. Yeah, blessed be
the meek. It's attorney of the cheek. But j Bonde
just knocked them out with a sneaky right and put
them off his feet. It could come last, it could
come fast. In the blast knock your senses back to
(14:43):
the past. It's like old popping sounds, a big brass
section you hear from old jazz. Me I stick to
a piano key speak from a low a minor to
a soprano. E bob, it's the abodem C. What's different.
That's something just there city money. That's something I was saying,
(15:04):
share something here in the in the in the phone,
in the phone book.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You're getting back in the booth.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Didn't because it sounds like you you ready, it ain't
you know whether it's in the booth or not. This tour,
like I said, this is like this is that moment
for for the WO to that w that wisdom that
you that unpredictability, like let's let's get that back into
the system. You know, I honestly feel that WO is
(15:29):
like a part of hip hop culture that's needed, you
know what I mean. And whether we could be the
ones that continue to physically do it, or some young
brothers are listening, they pick it up and they come
and bring that wave like there's a there's some young
brothers I know, Coach Contra, I've been seeing them. Yeah,
you know what I mean, good flows, good style, good everything.
(15:49):
If they once they start injecting a little more wisdom
into that, you know what I mean. You know, hip
hop needs that, you know what I mean. It ain't
all just about uh you know, all our money, guns
and sex and drugs, you know what I mean. That's
a portion of it, but it's not the it's not
all of it. I saw you say something recently where
you said Hot ninety seven Bannon Wutang's music contributed to
(16:12):
I guess, not just the decline of the group, but
just the decline of New York sound and every ante.
I mean, you know, we could date that, you know
what I mean, We could look at it and see
it happening. Because when you're dealing with business, right, like
all of us, you know, we we got jobs, right,
and so we got to come in and do our job.
If the dude say they paint it blue, and you
(16:32):
the painter, you got painted blue, right, even though you know,
like man, this blue was gonna really turn everybody away,
or its really the paint got let in it or whatever,
you still got to stick to the job. And I
think like at that time, you know, and even maybe
people were scared to fight for each other, you know
what I mean, And that's been one of our issues
(16:53):
I think as our culture, right. You know, there was
a point when the culture started because of money, we
did started accepting each other. I remember when when like
Master peeing them will come to New York and we
accepted that, you know what I mean, when Dre and
Snoop and Ice Cube, we accepted it. You know, Uh,
first we accept it from the music, right, and that
(17:15):
be that's private. But then when the money, when somebody's
blowing money, then you accept it because of the money.
And so now you admire them because of his money,
but not because of his skill, because of the culture,
you know what I mean. So when that starts happening,
it's almost like, uh, now you're you're you're diminished in
the culture because of the money. So, yeah, a dude
could make a hit at the end of the day,
(17:36):
we talk about hip hop hits. Hammer Hammer had hits. Baby, Yeah, okay,
he was. He was going diamond, you know what I mean,
and and and and people didn't accept that as hip
hop for some reason back then, even roasting that, right,
even roasting that And I know I was pretty hard
on him by myself, so I'm not like I wasn't,
(17:58):
you know, because I was on some right, But we
don't even give him his accolades. So he opened the
door at the end of the day, right for commercials,
we did all that. But yeah, yeah you're out Pete
like like see, that's why I say a law is
motion for he gives. He takes a floor, like like
you could take Like, let me give you a quick metaphor.
(18:19):
I won't go too deep, but let's look at you
of our greatest, our greatest artists, right fifty cents right,
and I'm gonna say yay, right, both caught a floor
in their jaw. Right, one from a car, some one
from a tragic street incident, but both now develop a
(18:43):
tone that attracts the world. So from a floor and
the jaw, you know what I mean, a lot blesses
them more. It's like it's like it's like, nah, now
you come back, and it's like this whole swag's whole
everything is. It's sharpened without even knowing, so hip hop itself.
(19:04):
They say the DJ the dude was like he said
he was in his crib, one of the old DJ's right,
he's in the crib and and his mom's coming and
he holds the record. Huh, and she's like, you know,
turn it down, blah blah blah. It's like holding it
now the scratch is invented. That's crazy, you know what
(19:24):
I mean. From a floor, I remember Easy Mob was
talking to was doing a similar siminar. I was there,
was gambling Hugh and he was saying like, Yo, how
do you guys get that one part of the song
that that that high hat? I think, and for the
Love of Money or one of their songs like those
hard hats, Like when it dropped out right there, I
sampled it. I used it in all my beasts, and
(19:46):
I think mister Gamble was like, oh that was a mistake. Wow.
So even from a mistake, right, we've given a chance
to to to to multiply and to make something great.
Yeah what was yours? Man? So many? To be quite frank,
it's just like sometimes you could go to your to
(20:07):
your to your beat machine and it's just glitches out,
you know what I mean. I feel like method man.
Uh the original drum where it happened was almost like
a glitch out. But I liked it. I just like
I just did not just immolated it. I immolated the mistake,
you know what I mean. But I think it was
(20:27):
not that the THEA, thea, like that's the that's the
bounce of it. So then so when a guy like
him got the gut there on the mic, he he
started riding his riding his horse, you know what I mean. So,
but there's others too that that that it just happens
like that, you know when it will flow, you know,
I mean even if you think about Shame right, I
(20:49):
mean Dirty came in late to the studio, but he
did that verse right one take and things like shame
with the bow that was like he just I said no, no, no, no,
go through it over soa nah, God, they're gonna love it. Wow.
(21:10):
I was like, all right, he was right, he was exactly.
I mean I actually actually I learned from that. But
one tree through that, but got through all of that.
I mean, that's the one thing about Dirty. If you
could talk about him for a moment, shout out to
y D. B. He'll be on the tour with us.
He'll be on Sunday. That's his son, his first born son,
(21:31):
bar Son. He'll be on the tour doing his father
verses for us. He's been doing it for years and
he's been doing a great job. But one thing about
Dirty he almost never say the same lyric twice. I mean,
say the lyric the same way twice. If he did it,
should show me y'all me yeammy yay next time you
(21:53):
do it. He's not gonna do it like that. He's
almost like a once again, like a jazz musician. He
just goes with the berry, you know what I mean,
and he'll tell he'll he'll say a rhyme that we
wrote when we was fourteen years old, and then he
was saying it during the woo era and eating motherfuckers up.
Because I'll go out the mic and now damager and
(22:13):
listen to his album. That lyric is on the album twice. Yeah, right,
because it was more of a performance, more of a
energy that he would bring versus just the lyrical content.
But he was very special and uh in that uh
and I think he helped bring freedom the hip hop expression. Yeah.
They used to talk about uh. They said Ji used
(22:34):
to write for Dirty sometimes that's true. Yeah, I'm like,
how do you write for dirty? Well that's what called
because we're cousins, right, so that's always That's like at
that table. We used to go to the Jizzer house.
You know, this is poverty days, justin may have just
you know, one box of old mill and we'll go
get some kaiser buns you know New York, that stander Baby,
(23:01):
and we're still stay there for three days on oat
milon kaiser buns, just making pause tapes and write and
writing songs, you know what I mean. Like so even
when it says when the MCS came deliver, we made
that when we was like fourteen fifteen and what we
was doing liquids spars, I was like, yo, let's do
that old routine we did at the table and that
pause tape and we did it and Bong Bong, you
(23:23):
know what do you do you ever.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Remember those records that you lost in the flood. Did
you ever get any of that or we're able to
produce that over or any of that at all?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Nothing ever came back like it like it was. Actually,
I'm glad you mentioned that, Envy. We're gonna there's a
uh we're building this time capsule for the tour, and
we're gonna invite our fans, you know, to come out
and somebody will win every night where you could take
something from your Wu nostalgia or your Woo history and
(23:56):
put it in this time capsule and we all know
we're gonna put it that it somewhere. I may put
it in the museum, but I'm going to collect something
from every you know, city, from somebody. But the first
thing I'm going to put in there, and I'm not
I'm kind of telling you that for the first time
because I was gonna surprise. I'm going to take those
(24:16):
discs that hadn't inspected Decks album. I'm gonna put it
in that time capsule and if somebody find it years
later and open it up and figure out that, you know,
the technology could get all that or whatever is on it.
Shock you don't have that now, there's no technology that
can get that now. It hasn't happened. We took uh
you know Deck's Matt. You know they they snuck a
(24:37):
few out and try to do it. You know what
I mean, because uh, it's on floppy disc yo. You
know what I mean. They took it to like to
the NASA people and then get it, you know what
I mean. Yeah, he's the one who suffered the most
from that flood, right, I would say autistically, yes, you
know what I mean. Economically everybody suffered. You know, it
(24:58):
was two floods. Like I don't know, I was just
I was. I just took it like noah, you know
what I mean, like wash all your shit away. I've
lost more in life than than I've shared. I'm out
of the lost phase. Got a good wife, you know
what I mean, who know how to keep keep life
organized for me and keep the balance. But before yeah,
(25:22):
I was definitely known for losing a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Now, that one album I can't remember his name, that
the gentleman bought. Did you ever get that album back?
Because I know there was a fight to get it
back did you ever get it back?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Not personally, but it's owned by a group of people
called Please to Dial, and it just it continues to
increase in value and have his own life. I mean
they bought it for like four million. Uh, and now
there's people talking about like a whole other thing of
(25:55):
what it could be. So it's kind of one of
those things to have a life of his own.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
We ever gonna it or that's part of the deal
that they can never play it publicly.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Actually, I'm striving now at this phase since since we're
you know, at this age and kind of figure out something.
I mean, the thing was there was like not to
be it can't be commercialized for eighty eight years, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I mean, so it can't be sold, it can't be on,
can't can't be commercialized streaming service.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You could give it away. I told I told missus
Courli that in the beginning, I was like, yo, especially
just to give you a little backstory on that, I
met him before he became the most evilless man in
the world. I remember they had like the most evilest
man in the world. So I met him before he
became lex luthor. You know what I mean, Figure up
(26:44):
and you know, we sat down and he was telling me,
you know, he you know, I'm a wool fan. I
love fifty cent, I love hip hop of May Kwan.
You know some of some of his lyrics has made
me through business things. And he had a whole plan.
He was going to buy this Enigma machine. I don't
know if you know what the Enigma machines. Those are
(27:04):
the decoding machines they used to make uh in World
War Two when they had to figure out in fact
it led to the computer. So he wants to the
and all the turning papers. Who was the guy who
basically invented the computer? He was he was in the
WU album. He was like, I'm gonna get all these
things and he's gonna do something. I was like, okay,
(27:26):
what the you gonna do? But he had a plan.
Whatever he was going to do. Boom. And then when
he when went negative on him, like maybe a few
months later, I saw it on TV. I saw him
on the news. I said, I was telling him my wife, Yo,
that's the guy that'd be selling the album too. I
wouldn't sell it to him. I said, oh no, it's
already like a deal. Even though it wasn't the money
(27:47):
didn't exchange hands. It was already a deal and was
in contract for him. So I was say, nah, I
mean I sat down with him, I told him yes
and so so now that it's at the day that
he gets it and know he got a lot of
security everything, you know, and they kind of he had
some big dudes with him, and uh, I just said,
(28:07):
let me talk to him moment by himself committing kid,
He's still a kid to me, And I'm like, yo, listen,
if I was you, I was just get us a
way to the world, like do something good because people
were saying, like you're bad right now. He was like
just smiled at me and went worse. Yeah. So but
(28:29):
I think that that would be a beautiful thing if
if it was a way to give it or you know, yeah,
I just think it's it'll be nice to share it.
You know. If Wu Tang was starting to day, how
do you think the industry would treat a group like
Wu Tang. I think we'll still break through one we wasn't,
you know, remember we came through also like we would
(28:50):
rush in the building too. Now. So even though actually
think they built the building security because of Wu tang.
I'm sure Remotle, you can walk into a label like
get in the elevator.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Now before there was no front.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You can just go right upstairs.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, man, Now boy, you know what security downstairs and man, you.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Got all types of But it's like, you know what
I mean, black age, No, but no, no, I think
beyond all that, right, I think the talent. Man, look
at the kind of talent you got in the world.
You can see the talent. The proof of it is
just like even method Man's going to go ahead and
be a star. Ghost is going to go ahead and
be a star, you know what I mean. So it's
(29:32):
just like you couldn't I couldn't deny it. Expect the Deck,
who's up who don't get the credit as he should?
I think far as star level. I mean I won't
to say as far as star level because the fans
go crazy when he comes on stage, but I mean
far as within our industry, separating all those top names
we mentioned. Expect the Deck got some of the best
verses in hip hop history. It's not even close, you
(29:54):
know what I mean. And it's just like, okay, so,
but that talent is right there. His talent is what
the first thing you hear when you hear woo, the
first thing you hear I smoke on the mic, like smoking,
Joe freezing you like and your meeting your ears? Oh wow,
who's this guy? And then you think it's over. Then
another guy comes in he got it going on, like
oh wow, who's this guy? So I think the talent
(30:18):
will always break through, just like just like when you
see other talents, uh in our industry right now that
just have something that you know, know, you know, you
know Tyler in the our future, Tyler the creator and
his whole crew. Like den I couldn't when Frank Ocean
album came out. He was like, oh yo, it was
just on me, Pete.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Now on this tour bus, will there be a studio
on the bus? I'm sure with your mind there will
be a studio on the bus.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, well, actually there's a bush. So John Lennon, right,
John Lennon, his foundation has a bus called the John
Lennon Bus, which they use for a lot of education purposes.
And I had to travel with us on the last tour,
and I'm gonna have a travel in this store. So
it's not only a studio, but it's like when you
use it. It helps kids in the cities and all that,
(31:07):
and they take it around the world and teach music
education and continue John Lennon's legacy. You know, imagine all
the people living life is one right, Yeah, John Lennon,
that was that was crazy. I want to ask you
about the Fourth Chamber versus spit okay, because it's so
relevant today because you talk about you know, government control,
(31:29):
economic inequality, medium manipulation, all of that. Where when you
wrote that, was that prophecy or was that what you
were seeing at the time? A little bit of both? Right?
As an artist, like like, it's easy to say, you
know right now, oh yeah, I have some prophecy, but nah,
but as an artist you post to tap in right,
(31:52):
It's like to be quite frank, everybody is an antenna,
you know what I mean. The chemical is a biochemical
equation of your physical composition is receiving signals. You could
receive a thought right now from your man in la,
you know what I mean. Without this, this is kind
of a proof of us who grew up without having
(32:15):
this much power in our hands, Celliah, right, and that
it still sells all in your body, you know what
I mean. But as an artist, you get a signal,
you feel something. Some people say it woke them out
their sleep and they wrote songs. And yesterday heard Paul
McCartney say, yesterday he woke up. It was in his
dream and that song is forever, right. So I think
(32:38):
that I know that myself as an artist, I would
always just get hit with a joke of electricity and
I would just write. And so of course I was
studying at that time as well. You know, a tune
with mathematics. Mathematics don't lie, you know what I mean.
And it's just like some of the words just you know,
(32:59):
just just come to you and you gotta be grateful
and you let it out. And sometimes when you hear
yourself back, it's not even you're You're actually not. It's
like that recording is sometimes it's not you, you feel me.
It's almost like third person. That's why experience. That's why
I was like Dove Risa, like I mean, it's like
(33:21):
it's like it was it's a title, and even even
that name it came like that. It was like because
I was walking around Prince Rakin, Prince Rakin, it was
like the son was like and I might I might
have had a good smoke that day. I mean, it
was like, yo, dove, risa, what is that? Right? But
if you look at my look at the letters, right,
(33:42):
the R is why Kim said, it's the eighteenth letter
and R is for rule or ruler, So it means
you got to start to rule yourself. But a ruler, right,
it's not just the action of oh, he's the ruler
of the country. You know. A ruler is a measurement
device that you much use to measure everything before you
get into your square. Right. So now if I measure
(34:05):
everything first before I zig, when it's time for me
to zag, which could be going in the wrong direction,
I know I could always zig back and then that
as fa a law and that's that arm leg leg
arm head. And so in my life, I was like,
it was just time for me to be like I
(34:25):
asked to be the rissa. And then then my brother's
just like after we started moving, uh, moving our unit,
shout out the power, shout out to the vine, shut
out to Tarif. Before we start moving our unit, it
was like, yo, you the abbot, you know what I mean?
All right? That's so that's my title with the who
(34:45):
and the Abbot. But the universe gave me that title
the Rissa. So I wonder what you see now, like
when you see things like like ice raids, and then
you think about the Fourth Chamber verse and you was
like a hit was sent from the president to raide
your residents. You know, when you see stuff like the
coronavirus and stuff like that, you say, six million that
was just that from the Buboni flu auto bowla virus.
(35:07):
You're just speaking about this plague that took over, Like,
what do you what do you when you see was
what happened over the years and you think about that verse,
what do you well, yeah, no, I'd be like yo.
At one point, it's like, yeah, the reality is the reality, right,
word time time, words take time to materialize, right m
(35:31):
so and so we're now we're talking probably listeners talk
about Noah. He they said he preached for like three
hundred years. It's telling people, y'all, look, we're gonna have
to build these arcs and get in the water and go.
And they're like, man, first of all, keep in mind
he's in the desert talking him I was gonna rain,
so nobody they can't believe that. But the time for
(35:53):
the world to be materialized. Is the process of going
from a thought to a gas, to a liquid to
a solid manifestation. Right, So you may say something today
that won't manifest hill later. And so some of those
lyrics are that. Right. Even more, I think if you
(36:15):
go into into this song, impossible, oh my god. So
even there, it's like, you know, my verse starts off
with fusion of the five elements, right, which is mental
and physical. Right, and this is before uh, you know,
the strong feminist movement. I was saying that, you know,
(36:37):
women are going to be more celibate. H They're not
going to be messing with us like that. You know
what I'm saying, Ah that something that life will becomes irrelevant.
But the benelovent king will communicate to you through your dream, right,
so the most how he'll hit you through your dream
and give you a mental picture be formed. And then
a laws heard it scene everywhere and you're around the
(36:58):
atmosphere thermis vest by the fear trappersphere. Can you imagine
from one single idea everything appeared here that they're be
like that was a single idea, but it took time
for all that to grow. Scientists say the Big Bang
theory they're talking about I took billions of years. You know,
it's been trillions of years for it to grow, right,
So a mental picture has been playing a lossow seeing
(37:21):
everywhere else. You know, let there be light, and the
light is here. So anyway, sometimes you as an artist, right,
you know, you go back and look at science fiction,
and we watched Genie Roddenberry who created Star Trek, and
we're like, yo, wow, he had the flip phone. The
next thing, you know, the flip phone is in physical
(37:43):
existence versus being an artistic existence. Yeah, you know, it's
funny and you're saying impossible because when b Dot did
these Summer Reason these top ten best Wu Tang songs,
he had number ten Wu Tang and nothing to Fuck
With number nine, Win Awards, number eight, Mystery of Chest Boxing,
number seven, Reunited, number six, it's your number five, protecting
Neck number four? Can it be also simple? Number three?
(38:03):
Ice Cream? Number two? Time number one cream. We started
flaming them in the group check. We just just just
not a good list the list, but they're like very
commercialized right there. But we're saying, impossible is one of
those songs that should be on there? What do you
think of that list. First of all, well, no, the
(38:25):
list is up to the to the list maker, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
But but he gets that list from online. That's people
like that going is online. They hit him while he's
doing the live things, not just that.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And also that list might be the top ten streamers.
At the end of the day, you go and check
the top streamers. But those are the commercialized list. Those
are the ones that are casual fans. Those are the
ones that they Yeah, those are the ones you better perform. Yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean. We come there, you better
hit us, hit us, and look the beautiful thing is
went towards cap came out of nowhere, remember that. I mean,
(38:56):
that's some time ago. But once again, talent. Nobody knew
that this guy, you know what I mean, We knew him,
you know what I mean. I knew that, y'all. He's
one of the dopes mcs on it on Staten Island.
While we was growing up, me and him always had
tapes together, like we had our tapes were circulating before
who had tapes, you know what I mean. That's why
he's like me and reservoir name punting in the tablet
(39:18):
under under under vets. We paid our desks for mad years.
He was like, we was already having tapes. The other
brothers was doing that thing. But he comes out of
the out of the now and uh you God brings
them to the crib and you know, boom. I was
just happy to see him, you know, because capa Donna
is his name at first was original legit, I mean original, right,
(39:41):
So I was the original, you know what I mean.
And he was like, you know, his slang is ridiculous.
I mean he's like, you know Donna. J Bird thinks
that capp of Donna. I was like, it wasn't no
cap of Donna street on Staten Island. Yet like maybe
five years later there's like a cap of Donna name
got the I didn't. I didn't know what cap of
(40:01):
Donna was. Well, I think it's like it's like the
leader of of of of the of the Policethood or
something like that, you know what I mean. Yeah, because
there's a cap of Donna in the Catholic I think
in the Catholic religion there's something that's cap Donna. Yeah,
(40:22):
they had no drums, man. It was like a baseline
missing from winning war. Like when you turn it. No,
the drum, the drum, Yeah, the drums was filtered, was filtered.
The drums was filtered out with something. Something caused the
filter the phase and I left it. That was one
of those mistakes that you were talking about. Yeah, like
the filter phased out, and I was just like, I
(40:43):
just loved the verses and I love the energy of
the vibe of what was happening. But here's a man
that comes out, drops his thirty two bars it wasn't
a sixteen, and goes on to become a gold artist
from one verse. He's just like I would give it
expect a z on Nas like he had one verse
on nas joint, goes on, goes on to become a
(41:07):
yeah yeah it comes on and become a historical hip
hop artist. MC Kwamega. He just had to mention no, yeah,
one love Love, come come home and got a record deal.
That's the that's the power of hip hop. Y'all. How
did you what made y'all let Cappadonna go so long?
Did he write it or he already have it? He
just went in there and did it and just keep it. Yeah,
he just eded out. He aired out. I mean, he
(41:30):
hit it out you can't when you you know, back
in the day when even now, I guess, when you're
hearing something and you just hearing it and it's just
you can't stop listening. It's like it's like when young
Doug and what's like his young Doug Gucci and I
think it's Travis on that song Floyd Floyd Mayweather. It's
(41:52):
a long song. Yeah, I rocked the whole song all
the way through this. They're just they're just going in,
They're just going I'm like, yo, I play that, I'm
headed home. But I mean I still played as long
as probably was five seven years old now, but they
aired it out. It's just like that's what it is.
When you hear something that airs it out. You can't.
You can't, you don't. Don't cut it.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Do you remember some of those legendary battles in the studios,
some of that you people might not know off that
you're there one day and this it might be this
ortist and this, and they just going back and forth
and it's disgusting but great.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean yeah, I mean far as Wool competition. One
thing I love about my brother is that it could
get all the way up to fuck you it could
get that tense and and everything's cool.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Who's the worst with that?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
That always gets personal and it I mean you can
guess that you got yeah the grouch, the grouch come on,
because he's unfiltered. You don't give a fuck, you know
what I mean? And you know yeah, you know yeahay,
Dirty would have been like that too. Oh dirty, But
(43:02):
see what think about? No? The thing about Dirty though, right,
because Dirty was like that, you know what I mean.
I mean, I mean, man, dirty, yeah, but Dirty. I
think with him it was it was it was always
like I guess, like he's like like he'll yeo yeo, yell,
get you, get you hyped up, and then kiss you
(43:25):
on your nose. You see what I mean. That's something
magical about that, you know what I mean? And so
so so for him, it's always like you can't help,
but like that's crazy. I love this dude, yo, you
know what I mean? Well, uie, No, it wasn't no kiss.
It's like it's like it's like this and ship and
(43:48):
actually somebody else does he gotta slot slow it down?
You know what I mean? Who's that person? Who's who's
the It could be anybody like like I think Master Tiller, Uh,
I mean the knife member declinent. I think he's he's
he's he's always been, uh a balancer. Yeah, in fact,
shout out the Master Killer. He's working on a new
(44:09):
album called Balance right now. I think that also. I
think another MC once again. He just had those eight
balls on chest boxing, you know what I mean? But
yet mm hmm built the career. Who's your favorite m and?
Who think? I mean the Jizza is the is, the is,
the is the head man. You know, I argue with
(44:32):
people if you want to argue, you know, and especially
at that time, if you go and check the Jius
lyrics and his catalog the lyrics, I don't think you're
gonna find no other m C. You know that that
have given that compared to him lyrically. I mean I
put as my favorite MC, and and the way that
(44:55):
he approached the mic and and the things that he's done.
You think about label back then, Well, he's using every label,
but he's telling you a cohesive, clear story, you know
what I mean, with metaphors and wit and yeah, and
then he goes on to do it again with Fame,
and then he goes on and do it with Animal Planet.
(45:17):
You know when he did it with Animal Planet, which
was crazy because he just use all the football teams
and we're talking about how the Jaguars against the Lions,
and I was like, yo, that was like justus. He's
d but he takes him It might take him like
a year to write a verse like that. He won't
write it like like ray Hits, you hit the pin
(45:39):
and be done in an hour and it shit be
fly marvelous, fly shit, you know what I mean. The
just it's like he's still working on it, like he
got songs he's still been working on for ten years.
Because he won't. He won't say it if he done,
if he done something quick, he'll do it just because
(45:59):
he asked to do it. But that's not that's not
his best intention as an His intention as an MC
is to make it almost biblical or something like almost
like everything is. There's no filler, no words of feeling
the ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
You know, do we need another another Wou Tang type
group or person to break the mold? Like you think
about when Protecting that came out. That was so unlike
the mold that ever came out right. It was it
was no real hook. There was just versus. It didn't
even start with the verses started what you like, It
was just totally left, but it caught. Do you think
(46:37):
we need something like that to break the mold because
everything is starting to sound monotonous.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, you always need a fresh jold of energy. And
I think we're gonna get it. Man. It's MC's or
artists right now, just that's in their college dorm, or
in their mom's crib or even in the in the projects,
you know, with better equipment than we had right with
his laptop or whatever, and they and they just they're
(47:02):
just cooking and they're gonna come and show us. I
also have a small prediction for hip hop, Like I
think that hip hop will get us. We'll get the
we'll get the it's like before we was. There's been
a lot of dratifying of gangsterism, right, I think hip
(47:24):
hop will now get artists that they don't they was.
They weren't drug dealers, they're not criminals. They've studied this art,
they've studied they lived hip hop in their form uh,
and they're going to bring a wave that won't feel
so threatening. And we had that And I'm not saying
(47:44):
that they wasn't from the streets, right, but think of
Dayla and Trip right, think of Black Sheep and km
D most think of most Death and Tyler, right. But
I was even going earlier than them because they come after.
It goes like that that they kind of most Definitely, Yeah,
you know what I mean. I feel like we just
(48:04):
had that though the last fifteen years. Really if you
think about it, because you think about the Kendricks, the Drakes,
the j Coles, the Willets, the Big Sean, the Chance,
the Rappers, the Raps, these like they not on that
they've been the top guys. And yeah, I guess you're right,
but but I'm still I think it's something else different though,
because they they they I still think it's more like,
(48:26):
how can I put it that it ain't just that
not from the streets, it's it's it's still another spoonful
of that's missing, like another spoonful of like the multi
layer Okay, the fashion of it. Right, So out of
those you name, who has the fashion the fashion I
(48:49):
don't know, maybe I guess maybe maybe, maybe, I don't.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Know know, I mean, it's big fashion and influential. I
don't think any of those guys exactly as far as influence,
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Only maybe a SAP definitely okay, But then a SAP
gives you the streets and the fashion, right you see.
I mean I'm talking about where it'll be. They can
they can fight it because they they've been training their
whole life, uh in some some uh some class. They
(49:20):
could play the instruments because they've been playing the instruments.
They got a college degree because their parents they don't
go to college. They love hip hop. They know they
could quote Slick Rick, you know what I mean, They
could quote Kendrick. You know what I mean, they could
do all of that.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Artists from the hood, but that's not hood, not not
gangs to win to college, got the degree, but study
hip and.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Maybe not from the hood. Maybe he's from the uh college,
that's definitely, that's right, right clods is that uh? But
they're not the fashion definitely not the fashion. No, no, no,
it's so I'm just saying, I think there's a generation
of him that's going to come through that that they
(50:04):
could have been as beautiful as an R and B
artist this use that right, as witty as a hip
hop artist, as focused as a I don't know, it's
is called a fashion artist, right and yet physically powerful
as ghost Face Killer. There's only one.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
There's only one like that, Kanye. He's the only one
that's not from the hood, very fashionable, very influenced. He
was not spitting gangster, but he No, he.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Don't got the physical like he's not intimidating, but but
he but he is a pioneer of that particular that
you gotta like Kendrick though for me, of course. Listen,
one of kendricks first samples on his early songs, it
was he sampled me and I cleared it for free,
(50:55):
you know what I mean? Say I keep that, you
know what I mean? Yeah, And that's listen, he was
it just before he was about to go to the
top of the world. I just heard it. You know
he's spending it's the dope m C. Yeah. I gave
Kendrick the credit ten years ago. I mean, and uh,
and it's only gotten better.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, And Run the Jewels is the perfect fit. But
but why did you choose Run the Jewels? Was it
something that you had him on the roll before.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I was Running jew We did a show with them,
We did two shows with them before and and and
this this may sound like they're like they're like, to me,
running Jewels are like raised against the machine. I think
about that for a moment. They are like, you know,
(51:46):
their lyrics and they're they're having fun of course, but
they're also politically conscious. Their fans are like diehard like
diehard Wolf fans. They and the energy we did. We
did two shows with him. It was like and we
was like, oh, Ship, you know what I mean. It's
(52:06):
like it's like it's like I didn't know how big
raising the machine was because I'm in my bubble. But
when I when when we was in Europe, there was like,
you should go see these guys. And I went and
saw them. I was like, oh, Ship, that's the energy
that I love. Yeah, this put those energies together. It
was the same thing with one of the Jewels. They
(52:27):
had twenty thousand going crazy, you know what I mean.
I was like, oh shit. Even though I know killing
Mike for years, you know, from his first gold album.
Uh you know, of course everybody loved Michael, but just
took Mike on too back in the day. Yeah, yeah, no,
Mike said that just a took him on to a game.
(52:48):
God by the game. Yeah, he said Jesus, He's he said,
just a pioneered them, just one of those dudes that really,
you know, sparked In's brand. But yeah, they did. This
is a this is a nice like I said, this
is a lyrical combination right here, and yeah, we talked
about it for almost a year and then bunk here
(53:08):
living it. What's the most underrated Wu Tang song that
you think deserves more love? And that when y'all performed
on tour, everybody just goes crazy. Well depending where you're at, right,
But I know one Wu Tang songs that definitely seem
like I don't think New York has ever even heard it.
Gravel Pit. Oh of course that was with the video y'all.
(53:29):
Just like the Flintstones and all that. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
all the fur coats and all that. But man, overseas,
you could play it twice in the in the concert,
I love it, Yeah, but in New York play that,
you know what I mean, somebody get mad that come on,
like go to somebody stop frowning at you? Like, yo, God,
who your math? Like doing my verse? Whether the video
(53:56):
or just if you know what it was a it
was a I think it was I think I was reaching.
I was like, I attempted to make a song in
the reserve way that was like poppy commercial radio. Yeah,
but we never needed that, I know, but I didn't
know what the hi of the backstory of that song
(54:16):
real quick, know that song was. It was it was
meant for Leah. So Leah, we was in the studio,
you know, we talked about it and I said, I
wanted to have this whole Flenchtone concept and have you
dressed up like like Betty, Yeah, like pebbles, pebbles, but
you know, because a little you know, such in great
shape and all that. And I just had this whole
(54:38):
plan and she was to be like, yeah, we agreed,
and it just you know, things went when Yeah, so
she was gonna sing over that beat and everything. Wow,
and imagine how on it yeah, because it was more
dancey and I get what you're saying. Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Was there any other artists that you guys worked with
that just never came to Fruition.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
X or not? I think not Wu Tang Clan itself,
but I think, you know, all the members then blessed
with everybody. But on the album called the On the
W's the What's the album where it's the only Wu
Tang album that was like, yo, let's let it. Let
our brothers in some peers in so Bosters on itg
(55:25):
Is on it, Snoopers on it, Batman is on it,
you know what I mean? And those is you know
Wo Cousins members. Yeah. Yeah. My last question man, you
talked about the importance of discipline and self mastery throughout
your entire career. Why is that so important for people
to have in the industry now, because I feel like
it's the lack of it. Yeah, definitely. You know, if
(55:48):
you don't know the ledge like knowledge yourself, know the ledge,
you're going to fall off the edge. And it's really
as simple as that. You know, your health is your wealth,
all the things. You know. Being the youngest fun so
they come in our coming the industry. You know, they're young.
It's exciting, you know, I mean the blue pill, red pill,
yellow pill, you know what I mean. And you know
(56:09):
and and and you got and live. But you know,
since everything is more potent, you know what I mean,
And everything is like, uh, before we could take ten
years to take you out, could take you out now
one year. That's that just like just like the information.
Before it took forever to get the information. Now you
(56:30):
could just press the button. It's the same thing with negativity,
and so I would tell I was just shout out
all my young artists out there or even mature artists.
Definitely take time to build yourself, build your mind. Don't
get too caught up in it, you know what I mean.
Look at this as as as as your work as
your love, but keep yourself and your family first. We
(56:53):
had think you.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Appreciate you for joining us. The tickets are on sale
right now, get your tickets.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Appreciate you, Rizz, appreciate you too, brother. It's the Breakfast Club.
It's Rizzo Bong Bong. Wake that ass up Earth in
the morning. The Breakfast Club. M hm.
The Breakfast Club News
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Charlamagne Tha God
DJ Envy
Jess Hilarious
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