September 21, 2022 • 64 mins
Jasmine Guy & Kadeem Hardison On A Different World's Impact, Character Chemistry, Black Love + More
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FM
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that airs up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody is DJ Envy and Ngula Yee, Charlomagne the guy.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special guests
in the best. You gotta do better than that. You
come on now, come on, come on now, come on now,
come on now, come on now. Your husband got I
(00:24):
gotta start like this. Okay, this is a fun fact. Okay.
The reason I went to Hampton University was because of
me watching a different world. How many times do y'all
hear that? At least half a dozen dozen a week?
Did you graduate? You can got. My first celebrity picture
(00:52):
I ever took with was with Kde Madison Tomorrow. We
were in the airport and you had the flip up
glasses and everything. My mom took a picture in the airport.
Was hunt a thousand pounds old you? I was young.
We was coming back from Florida. He must have just
gotten the job. Yeah, not real, a matter of fact,
(01:18):
they were the flip they were just round. Okay, yeah,
picture tomorrow, remember I remember. Sure that wasn't Jeff Man
gonna send me the picture? I'm posted, Thank you, thank you,
glad to be I know this might be an odd question,
(01:39):
but do y'all know what y'all mean to just people?
It's black people becoming more and more apparent as we
get older. As Yeah, like at first, no, in nineteen
ninety six when we were done, and probably the next
ten years not as much. But then after twenty years
(02:02):
and you think that's dead. You go somewhere and you
see somebody and their eyes jump out of their head
and they almost like the Kingdoms of the Moon that
they got, and they're like, Wow, it's you. I wanted
to be engineered because you went to Hampton. I went
to I wanted to go to him, and I was
trying to find out where the school was. So it's
(02:22):
becoming clearer and clearer as we get older. But um,
but no, at the time, it's it's very moving to
me now. But at the time, um, both of us
were you know, we were from New York where you
used to hustling. We had just done school days. We
were kind of like, okay, now what now? What? Now what?
(02:45):
And um, I don't know that we knew how the
show was resonating with our people because we were not.
I wasn't around my people. I was in La and
I went from Melrose to the Valley and back to Melrose,
and the only people I hung out with with them,
(03:08):
you know, so I wasn't hearing it. I wasn't seeing it.
And coming from theater, you know, you know when you
when you hit, when you land, you know when when
you are having a communication and Um, what has been
amazing to me is that, you know, we were always
trying to make things better, make things more believable, have
(03:31):
more depth or content, so we weren't really looking at
what was landing. I wasn't, you know, because when we talked, um,
you know, actor to actor, Kadeem and I really worked
hard on that relationship because if you look at the
first season. In the second season, I was like, I
(03:53):
don't know why why Whitley were like Dwayne based on
what I was older, I was upper classroom to him,
he was you know, they had him playing the goofy
guy and now she's dreaming about him. I would have
been dreaming about some seniors that I would like to cast.
(04:19):
But you know how much input did you both have
in some of the topics and themes that were on
a different world, because you guys did cover a lot
of real life things that you didn't see anywhere else.
They pretty much. Uh, Debbie came and she had a plan.
But do you remember that she made us right our
what we saw ourselves in five years or something like that.
(04:40):
We had we had homework and we had to all
go home and just write up a page or two
of what we saw ourselves for our characters, what we
should do. So that was as much the first season
we were there. I was there to be the snotty
(05:00):
bitch and he was there to be the goofy dude.
We were very clear, you know. The the what Debbie
did was she made our characters deeper and more realistic.
She snatched all the weaves out of my hand, even
though I have one on. She was like she came
(05:23):
into the pitch, She's like, oh, darling, where's the hot sauce. Yeah,
she made it because she went to Howard and and
what is the difference of going to a black college
or you know, a big university. Because you are loved,
you are nurtured, you are part of a neighborhood. They
don't want you to fail. They're not gonna let you fail.
(05:46):
And that came through in the way she worked with us.
You know, and um, she gave us a voice. We
couldn't give notes that first year. We were just worried
about it. Are they gonna call us? But they were
firing people. But also also the show also also the
show shifted though because what wasn't the show sitting around
Lisa Bonney the first season? But then she didn't come
(06:08):
back with a second season. I'm sure that had that
made all of y'all have to be the stars now basically, yeah,
well I thought that the show just wasn't going to
come back because she is and was the star of
that show, you know, and our characters, at least mine
was based on her, revolved around her. You know, who
(06:28):
am I going to contrast? Or or you know how
how was Whitley gonna be funny by herself? There was?
She was the Mary Tyler Moore, you know what I mean?
And I didn't understand that structural change in putting us
together when we really didn't have even that much to do.
(06:51):
But we knew each other, and I said, you know,
first of all like his big sister. So it felt
a little incestuous crush on you that first mention. You
don't have to you know, I was young I was
(07:20):
mel But the thing was we were friends and we
did have good communication. We could talk. I had better
communication with him than most of my relationships. There's no pressure.
We've I'll tell you the bad, he tell you the good.
Tell you what a lot. I was gonna ask was
(07:41):
it difficult to stay on TV? Because at the time,
there was nothing like this on television, nothing about HBCU,
nothing about colleges. Was it difficult to stay on television?
I thought the first season was difficult. I really took
the job expecting maybe we'd get six or eight episodes
dud and go back to New York, New York. It
(08:05):
was shot in La. Yeah, they shot in La. Yeah,
y'all made me feel like y'all shot in Virginia on campus,
Like I'm never in a millionars with a thought. Now
all the exteriors were in Atlanta and then spellming in
more House. Yeah, but yeah, we were just in the
studio in LA and we weren't near The Cosby Show,
which was filming in Silver Cup. So um, that was
(08:31):
a disconnection too, because Californians they never heard of HBCUs. Now,
I grew up across the street from Morehouse. I'm from Atlanta,
So it was as right as rain to me. I didn't.
I didn't realize that black people nobody knew about black colleges,
(08:52):
not on that side of it. I didn't. Ye, I
never heard of it. And then he's one of us
have gone to college, right, all going after these of
y'all actually attended an HC. In real life, I barely
got out of high school. I had to do summer
school and all of that school. Yeah, I had to
(09:13):
go to summer school on fourteen Street, Like there was
not a fourteen seventeen Street. There was a little school
that when you was messing up in your high school,
they sent you out someone. Why did the show? And
I remember that and the ninety three yall went on
(09:33):
hiatus and it just never came back, Like yeah, yeah,
I think it was. I think once once we had Jesse,
we were doing a lot of controversial stuff and I think,
you know, the Riot Show, and yeah, there was some
stuff that maybe the network wasn't as thrilled about. It
was a lot of battles back and forth with Debbie
(09:55):
and trying to, you know, make it current and relevant,
and it was like, yeah, it's just have the you know,
the Romans and The Chase and every every deep show
that we did. She fought for. It was a battle
with the network. Then white boys did not care about date, rape, apartheid, riot,
(10:16):
HIV okay. They were like, just put Whitley and Dwayne
and be funny. Wow, I did haze into haz Yes,
So y'all didn't even see it coming in I saw
it coming. We saw it coming because you know, you're
treating us like monkeys and we're not monkeys. We're not
doing your word, We're doing our word. And the power
(10:37):
that we had they diminished. I felt diminished because they
always said, but you come between Cosby and Cheers. I said,
but people can change the channel, right, they don't have
to watch this show. Yeah. Yeah. I just felt like
we were always on our own. I never felt a
part of that Hollywood system. Like I would watch Roseanne
(11:01):
Bar getting was like, I was like, is this cable whatever?
You want to go stupid? You know. I would see
people that were like the way we were an ensemble
company with with actors that and we would never get nothing.
(11:23):
You know that. I have Roseanne bar singing the anthem
at a at a Padre game. We got five singers
in our casto and we number two. Wow, that's crazy.
So I always felt the exclusion. I always felt it,
and I never felt a part of that whole. You
(11:44):
get emmies and never even got nominated, never invited to
the show. Wow, Like never like come on and present
a joint or just be in the crowd and let
us shoot the cast. That's okay. You can't put too
much cloud up into that shit, ain'tyway. I agree with
you that fact. We all can't put too much time.
(12:05):
So you can't put too much in the criticism. You
gotta know who you are and where you belong. And
that was my family, that was my company. But you know,
they used to ask me to do stuff for NBC
like parades and shit and say happy birthday to cheers.
I say, why am I seeing happy birthday to day
(12:25):
black people on the I'm getting paid for what stage? Yeah,
we have a stuff that you're scared that you're gonna
be stuck in character like that. Everybody always looked at
you as doing or you know, always looked at you
is you know Whitley. You know when you're ever scared
of that type getting type cast. I knew that as
(12:48):
soon as it was over. Well, I thought that I
should have did four years and graduated and maybe a
fifth year to transition into new cast members, new freshmen,
and then and then they should have did four five
in transit. So in my eyes, the show should have
(13:08):
never ended. It should still be on now not reruns.
Oh yeah, because it could be yeah, like how it
could be like grown, It could have been different world. Yeah,
it could just always go on because they'll always be
kids in college and they'll always be something to talk about, right,
Like Whitley graduates, but you're still there, and then people
are coming in underneathy, and then you graduate and then
the people you introduce. It just seemed like a perfect
(13:30):
vehicle to create young to showcase black talent. You know,
what didn't be said about typecasting is true, but also
man that that late eighties early nineties fame was so
big that we know y'all real names. Yea, Like I
don't just know y'all characters. I know that Jackman guy
and could Deem Hardeston's I think that means something too.
What about Marissa till May right, that's the one white
(13:52):
character on the show. Was that something that you feel
like they said we got to put a white person,
you know, on the show, or well we came on
after that, and I never understood it not being addressed.
And I actually wrote an episode. This is how naive
I was. I thought I could be on a show
and just write an episode. I was like, well, I
didn't write this, And I brought it to Susan and
(14:16):
it was addressing the fact that, um, well, she goes
to a dance and she asked us boy that you
know danced with her and he was like, you know,
I ain't dancing with no white girl. Are you trying
to you know? And she it blew her away. She
comes back and she says, I never thought about it.
She said, well, why did you? Why did you come
(14:37):
to Helmet because they have the best journalism department in
Virginia and they told me they're not addressing the white
person at the black school issue. Yeah, wow, why? I
don't know why because it was so obvious. The weirdest
thing to this day when I when I was in
and it was white kids walking around camp. It was
(14:59):
just weird, like, you know, I wanted to be like why,
but they got scholarships so they went. It was just
always weird it would be interesting to see what that
experience for them was like, they're like you said, yeah,
point way more, especially when we carrying eggs eggs around
(15:20):
like babies. I'm like, we get ready to drink. Yeah,
we listen, we are celebrating, y'all. You see we got
the balloons on the back of that same helm. I'm sorry,
I'm embarifed by the champagne they got, but we not.
Don't know, damn budget, you should go opened the really,
(15:42):
that's what really with the gradual we got we got
helm up there there you go. Thank you got to
give people their flowers, right, why not? Why not give
them to them literally my flowers. I'm very embrassed by
(16:03):
the champagne. I'm sorry. I can't believe they would do that. Well,
let me try it. I'll let you know. Back to you,
though you said you wrote that episode, you also directed
some episodes, right, did you direct episodes too? Because I
directed the fall Out my Chair, the two part episode, wow, um,
I directed to I directed another one too. I remember
(16:26):
one um, it was violent Captain the Cradle. No, that
was I can't remember his name. Thank you, sir. It's okay.
It's been a while. Okay, so did they come to
you or were you? Did you guys wanted because I
brushed my tea. I'm gonna drink it though, would y'all
(16:47):
do that? It doesn't need to be called sure, need
to be cold. He's trying to about Champagne. Had me
nervous about being on this show. I was like, is he? Like?
(17:08):
Howard sterned like what is it? I have seen you,
I've seen you interviewed, but I haven't seen you. I
hadn't seen the show. So i go on YouTube and
I'm watching it and I'm friends with Amanda Seal. Yes
you know, And I was like, okay, what's the problem, Like,
what can we talk about that's going to be so horrible? Nothing? Nothing.
(17:32):
So continued talking about directing and Debbie Allen so directing.
When it came to directing and writing, Debbie made us
put it in our contracts that we had we got
to direct that's episode or two wow, write wow season
after with the second or third season the other third season?
How did she know that? Like? How did she know that?
Something that you all want to do. The more you do,
(17:55):
the less they can tell you you can't do. Wow?
That was the word she said to me, because I
was like, I don't wondering. I didn't want to go,
and she said to me, We'll never have this opportunity again,
so you will do whatever you can while we're in
this position of power and choice. You know, I wrote, like,
(18:16):
I don't know, three three or four episodes he's directed,
Glenn Terman directed. You know. She was an advocate for
use this opportunity, so the next time, we're not behoven,
you know. Um. And it was great crossing that barrier
(18:36):
of from actor to the writer's room and hearing how
they really talked about. I was like, oh, my good.
You have to check people to check you have to
check people in the writer's room. Oh. I didn't say.
I didn't say anything in the writer's room. I just
lessened because it was twelve of them. But I didn't
I hadn't seen that process, because that all happened before
(19:00):
we get our notes, you know. And um, and well
it was it was my script that I had written,
so I had to be in the writer's room. And
that was the first time I saw them imitate imitate
us woe yeah and say, oh no, you know, don't
(19:21):
don't give her that that's a waste. I was like, Oh,
but it was good, you know. And it was good
that I was in there because, um, everybody, every artist
has to understand what the other artists do. You have
to have respect for what he does, what she does.
(19:44):
You know, just because you're in front of the camera
doesn't mean that's it, you know. And I knew that
I didn't create this character. I didn't write these words.
I don't know how to speak French. You know, whatever
was going on. I didn't dress myself. I didn't do
my hair and makeup. So I was always aware of
(20:07):
delusion that's created by a team of people. But I
also come from theater, right when you know that, you
know that when you're on stage, you're not the only
one making all that happen. Um, I didn't have I
(20:31):
know what wasn't me because of the way I was raised.
I know politically I had I had a lot of
issues with what I had to say, but I knew
that there was somebody on this show that was going
to say the right thing. When you're the only black
person in a white cast, you have to say all
the right things. But when when I was Whitley and
(20:54):
I have him and Charlie and Cree if there are
you know. I was like, well, somebody, because this is
what I'm about to say. When when I said to
Um Charnel Kimberly Reese it was apartheid show and she
was gonna give up her scholarship because they were divesting,
I said, but I only know you. I don't even
(21:16):
know those tape because you know my first scene with
Lisa Bona in the in the room, um, she's She's like,
are you saying you you you parked in the handicap?
I said, why should I be punished because I can
(21:38):
walk this bit as long as it's funny. But no,
the balance was that in the show, you know, i'd
have it out with him. I'd have it out with
somebody that would challenge that thought. So I had the
(22:02):
freedom to really go there with her wrong, which usually
with acting I'm always like, ooh, I'm not gonna you know,
But with Whitley, I said, we're gonna, We're just gonna
let her go. You have money for wardrobe too. I
was gonna say that because your wardrobes is always fly. Yeah,
so they gave you invested some money in your wardrobe.
(22:23):
Second season, you watch what I won the first season. No,
the wardrobe went to Lisa bone Nag as they should. Yeah,
but I think the wardrobe spoke to those characters too,
because Cecy did a great job knowing who these people were.
(22:43):
So it's one person doing all seven of us, you know,
from the bright colors to the um you know, I don't.
I don't know. Do you wear suits when you go
to class? I always felt like Whitley was overdressed the business.
You had to business to tire. If you're in the
business department, you have to wear a jacket. Oh and
(23:06):
what about those infamous glasses. The infamous glasses came from
our first year executive producer and beats passed away. Um. Yeah,
she went to two nights before we shot my first episode.
She went to a Bowie concert and I think his
bassis or his drummer had them on. And she came
(23:27):
to me two days before and she was like, hey,
I saw these look kind of cool. Would you want
to wear them? And at the time I thought this
ship is so corny. Give me some glasses and a
hat and a hood anyway that I can hide myself
and not be so recognized. I'll take it. Anything, so
(23:47):
so yeah, I donned him quick. I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, sure,
bang got any hats. I was in charge of the sneakers,
you know what I mean. I made sure that the
foot I chose the footwear, but I let the wardrobe
people the wardrobe until it got down to the feet
and then I was like, nah, I'll bring up some stuff.
And the ages was really bright. I just remember shoulder
(24:09):
pads and bright. Those glasses I remember, and now they're
known as d Wayne Wayne glasses. Even when you see
Jaffie Jeffer them on those Dwayne Wayne glasses no matter
who wear them, even to the day those dayne Win Glass,
(24:30):
Wade Wade wearing them. And yeah, now, what are your
thoughts on shows that represent black coach on on TV today?
I enjoy particularly Atlanta. It's probably, you know, my favorite
show because it's it's just so weird and it's so different,
(24:50):
it's so um out there that it was. It's one
of the regrets now is that and can get the
chance to do an episode of Atlanta. Like m I
called my agent as soon as I heard Don was
doing a show on facts and was like, a bro,
get me in, Like I'll pull cables, whatever they need
(25:12):
over there. I'll run camera whatever. I just want to
be a partist because I think it's going to be
special and uh and damn at the ending and I
didn't get on it. So that's my favorite one. I
enjoyed Blackish and their run um and I've I've done
a few episodes of Grownish, um and I like. I
(25:33):
like what they're doing. Although it's not an HBCU, it's not,
it's not the same, but it's still focusing on some
black kids in college, you know, moding education, which I
think is you know, can't be done enough. That whole formula,
that whole blueprint was called being in a different world.
Absolutely Blackish, Grownish Guaranteed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like Shy
and I like Insecure and I um, I am so
(25:58):
excited when I watched these shows because we would always
have ideas, but it was not the time I pitched
a lot of ideas. I had a production company, and
just to be able to see our voice and the
textures of our culture, and um, that the producers are
(26:22):
black and that they are women, is that makes me
feel good. Absolutely. So Luthina Wave too, she you know,
she loves, loves, y'all. Her whole production company is called
Human Human Productions. Yep, yeah, I was gonna as you
mentioned a tuopoc episode. I know both of you guys
were close with Tupoca, cool with Tupacs, So how did
those relationships happen? For me? I was just directing them
(26:45):
that week, the better one, Okay, cool, all right, cold up.
I don't know what come out with me. I'm not
(27:06):
really Yeah, yeah, I just got to direct him. I
was fortunate, you know. Uh Jada said he wanted to
do this show, and he was excited. And I know
friends with many MCS rappers, and I know how they
get fuck off some time. So I was real nervous,
(27:28):
like my first week direct and I was like, is
he gonna show? Like because I I've messed around trying
to do a video with Dirty and he never showed. Yeah,
I got your money. Yes, I remember that because yes.
And then actually, because I was working with them at
the time, he actually came and did a video that
he was on for Jess and they wouldn't let it
(27:50):
come out. The label weren't clear Dirty because he didn't
show up to his own video. Yes, I was down
there waiting six to seven hours they asked me. I
was like, of course, I love Yeah. When you see
that video, they don't really show his face, it's just like,
yeah a big wig and yeah so um so yeah.
So I was just nervous as my first directing gig,
(28:11):
just like, okay, I just hope he's and once he came,
he was. I always thought it's not not a hot take,
but I always thought he was probably going to be
a better actor than rapper. Yeah, I didn't. You know,
music is subjective like blah blah blah. You like it
or you don't know, or it fits what you where
you are in the time of your life. I just
(28:33):
he scared me. As an actor. I was like, this
dude can reach places that I can't even imagine because eyes,
you know how they always talk about actors. You can
see what they can do by looking in their eyes,
like podcast in mine. Look at him, go, Jamine, aren't
you working on a documentary? Yes, they're doing a movie
about his mother. And I wrote the book Evolution of
a Revolutionary about a fanny. Um, it's just interesting. If
(28:59):
you stay here long enough, you'll see how interesting life is.
Because when I wrote that book, like you know, twenty
years ago. Whatever. It was really to empower a Faeney
because I felt like, you know, how would somebody do
good in your family? And then they bring the whole
(29:19):
family with him And I just saw this BOYD twenty one,
like with all these people, like, what are you doing?
How come you ain't working? Wait? You in school? I
was just so middle class. Okay when I met the
Shaker Cox family, and I would I would just talk
(29:39):
to them one on one and just try to find
out where they were because I didn't I mean, if
I had gotten a different world and my whole family
was depending on me too, you know what I mean.
I never knew that pressure. And when I talked to
a Faeny First of all, I always wanted to tell
the story of a email panther because I feel like
(30:03):
all the movies that I've seen have been biased, I
mean because they don't tell the truth about the I
know you were in one, you know, yeah, but how
macho and how you know sexist? Yeah, the misogyny was rampant.
That was the era too, though, Like that's that whole era.
(30:26):
I'm just saying it hasn't been told that, you know,
And I thought, well, can we tell aside of shakur story?
Can we of, you know, doing Angela Davis? Can we
do Kathleen Clever? And when I met Tupac, I didn't
want to say, oh, I can't wait to meet your mom,
(30:48):
So I didn't um But and I didn't really realize
her story because it was all the newspaper. It was.
There wasn't any Lenny your story about her. Anyway, I
started talking to her about telling her story and doing
speaking engagements on her own. Right. She's highly intelligent, and
(31:12):
I don't know that's how it started. And I ended
up writing the book because she didn't want to talk
to nobody else. I mean, after we had done all
those interviews and stuff. She was like then. And then
there was a lot going on with Tupac. And when
I met him, I met him four months before he
(31:33):
was shot. Then he healed, then he went to jail,
then he came out, then he had shot again, you
know what I mean. And so I just put it
on the back burner. But a Pheney's story is incredible,
and she wanted to talk more about her life than
(31:53):
the Panther movement, because that's like from nineteen to twenty one,
she wanted to talk about crack, she wanted to talk
about her recovery, she wanted to talk about, um, you know,
raising her two kids. And you know, I don't know,
so I wanted to ask y'all man, you know, I
often feel spoiled because I'm forty four. So you know,
(32:14):
like in the mid eighties, we saw black sitcoms like
The Jeffersons and Different Strokes, but then you know, the
Cosby's came in two, two sevens in Different Worlds. But
I feel like all of that just came to a
abrupt end, like towards the end of the nineties. Number one.
Do you think that was the renaissance for black TV?
And do you think there was something bigger at play
to stop all of those positive images of black people
(32:35):
on TV? It only seems that like if it walks
like a duck and it quacks like a duck. Um,
I don't have any evidence to support it except for
the optics. So yeah, I do think it was our
last season number two, number one. Sometimes Colby in a
(33:00):
different world for five, six, seven years. Okay, why would
you put why would you change our time slot? And
why would you put us again against Martin? Wow? Yeah,
I definitely took that personally. You ain't got but two
black shows on the networks, and you put us at
(33:22):
the same time against each other, And what have we done?
What have we done to deserve this kind of disservice?
You know, we're not competing with Martin. We come under
eight thirty, they come on at eight. Why did you
move us? That was detriment? That because Cosby show ended,
(33:43):
and didn't they put y'all up at eight because Cobby
was deleting. Okay, so that could have been it just
strong enough. We weren't strong enough to hold another time
slot and not against Martin. Yeah, my fact. I feel
like we have the same audience, and so what do
(34:06):
white people do divide? That's right, that's right, that's right.
You and you. You got two hit shows, Let's put
them on at this same time. They don't do that
to their own shows. So, yes, I do feel like
it was deliberate. I feel like it was racist. I
(34:30):
know who was running NBC at the time, and I
don't feel we were respected m because I feel like
I feel like they always said y'all came between Cosby
and Cheers, and that's why you're number two. They said
that to my face. I did, Dennis, um, Yes, so
(34:53):
what was chips? Was chips three? I don't know? Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay,
all right, he was they were three. So they thought
it was because of the network that these shows were
having all the success because as a time slot between
one and three, we gotta be between one and three. Yeah,
which is fine, right, I really don't care, you know,
(35:16):
but that you make that a point that I come
on a nighttime talk show with Joan Rivers or Dennis
Miller and that's the first thing after your mouth, well
how does it feel to be between Cosby and Cheers?
And and sometimes I didn't I didn't know how to
answer it. And Dennis Miller even said to me that
(35:38):
was that was a horrible lead, Yes, because you fucking
insulted me and you acting like I'm the ship, which
one of mine, you know, because people would have turned
off right after the Cosby Show and not watch that
or Cheers? Did they pay y'all like y'all wanted to didy,
(36:00):
I'll get paid? Or did you have to fight for that?
We had to fight for that. I went and did
I went, And the White Man can't jump can I
have another champion something good stuff. I went and did
White Man Can't Jump and met Body Harrelson and and
(36:20):
he was doing cheers and they had a way bigger ensemble,
and you know, he kind of let me in on
what he was making. I was like, y'all, number three,
what I know. That's when it hurts. It's when we
go when we talked word up. We went out into
the field and found out the cheers they were. I
(36:41):
was like, how he had an assistant all kind of
chick going on. I was like, where you get, Like
you just came off the bike in New York. But
I'm confused about that because you had Bill Cosby, who
already had so much success. Why wouldn't he give that
game to the spinoff show the He purposely had us
(37:03):
shoot in California away from him. I don't think he
wanted to have to shoulder. He was running. He was
running this this was it boom, y'all go over here
and work that out. And then when it wasn't working
to the way I think we all wanted called the
Debbian said miss then getting in with your broom and
(37:24):
clean that shit up. It seemed like she was a
blessing though. Absolutely, no, No, she was the best thing
that could have happened to us. That show was Dad. Yeah,
that show was on that show and Susan fails. I mean,
we had brilliant women running that show, turning out around,
(37:46):
fighting against the network, fighting for you know, she said,
where's the dark skinned people at this school? Where's the
brown people? You can't it? I don't know. I just
thought that first season, I already had called my parents.
(38:07):
I was like, well, I've made um, I've made thirty
thousand dollars and I paid off Greg and I'm paying
off my Amax and I'm going back to my apartment
because I thought that ship was Booty got paid during
the table, y'all was number one and number two. Can
(38:28):
we say thirty years ago? I thought you I thought
I saw you say that somewhere. I thought I saw
I think he was with Ryan Cameron or I saw
you said somewhere miss guy. You know Ryan, Yeah, radio legion,
of course, I like you radio people. I saw you
say that somewhere. How much y'all made? It was the
first season. I made thousand dollars a week. I mean
(38:51):
that was I was like, that was what dollars at
the Village Game. I didn't have any compny games. Yeah,
you know, I had done. When I did Broadway as
an ensemble member, I made eight hundred dollars a week.
(39:15):
That was a lot of money. When I did Fame
the TV show, I was making seven hundred and fifty
dollars a week. And when I worked when they Danced
with Ali's, I made seventy five dollars a week. This year,
(39:36):
I just thought, he but we only had contracts for
seven episode. You didn't know how lot it was gonna last. No,
and they were firing people to sign years before you that.
Yeah no. But I went into the producers and I
tried to give my two week notice, right she. I said,
(39:59):
I'm very grateful for this. And because that that first season,
I'm telling you it was whack. And I didn't like
the way they were treat treating Lisa bon name. And
they said, well have they said, had so and so
said anything to you? I said, you disrespect her in
(40:19):
front of the audience in front of me. You disrespected
me too. Just do it just all up in her face.
And you know, I'm like, that's a sweet girl, because
you're not getting up on me like that, and you
know we've that with bitches. I mean we from New
(40:41):
York as far as choreographers and directors and whatnot. But
I was like, you know, I didn't interfere on set,
but I was like, oh no, oh no, you're not
treating her like that. She had dire security really, so
(41:03):
that's why she quit. Probably no because wanted her to
be on because you didn't want to show black girl
pregnant in college that I thought it would have been
a great UM tool and something to it could inspire,
because it was all inspiring, So why not, you know,
(41:25):
because that's the real thing. Still get your education. As
I've heard so many rumors that I don't know where
what comes from. I've heard that he wanted to incorporate
it on the show on our show. I've also heard
that Jesse wanted to um have a single mom because
he's from a single mom that went through school. And
(41:47):
then I've also heard that UM that was a network
that didn't want to incorporate her wholesome whatever. But first
of all, it was have given her something to play, absolutely,
because I felt like they were always looking for Denise huckstaball,
you're not using the meat that she comes from. You
(42:12):
don't know what you're looking at because you haven't seen
a little black girl like this before. And to give
her a baby, you go something to do and it
would have helped the jalsaccount ye, and then your ass
would have been human have been messing with you. You
you gotta go back to when you quit, so you
(42:33):
quite They didn't tell me. They didn't tell me that
I couldn't quit, but you know, come back to mo
No see you in the morning. I had grievances, so
(42:55):
as I was quitting, I was also expressing my grievances
and they listened to those, and then he asked me
if I had any insight to such and such. I
said no, no, not really, Like I just want to
go back to New York and get another job. Is
what's such story up to? Yaw, y'all got more money too, though,
(43:24):
How do you end up getting the more money after
the conversation with Woody Housing? Uh? Yeah, it was it
was hold out time for me. It was we held
out yeah as a team. Boy. No, we should have
done it together, but we did it separately. Sometimes I
was the last one and it was like the reading
and all this drama, and I'm like, why do I
(43:48):
have to do this? It is very degrading. It's very degrading.
And then you know other actors that aren't going to
that bullshit. I'm like, yeah, I remember, I remember sitting
at home playing sick, like, I'm sorry, Debbie, I can't
(44:08):
get I'm not gonna make it. He was taking COVID
all those years ago. I'm not gonna be able to come. Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, I said, and I think I think
Jasmine is sick too, And she said, Darling, Jasmine is here.
(44:29):
And I was like, damn it, yeah codate and had
to get on and get in my car and drive
the work late like yeah, I'm better now. But y'all
oventually got the money though, Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, I
mean got some we got the money I got. I
got what wood he was making when I talked to
him up. There was your mom in the business at
(44:52):
this point. She was my manager. She was okay, so
all the time she was managing Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,
I taught her. She says, not me, power of no.
You know. She was like, I think you should go
back in. I was like, no, not for that, not
for this. Okay because fierce. Okay, yeah that's yeah. Yeah.
(45:16):
I was yeah, she'll say that right there. I learned
about the power of no, and you knew your worth
and wouldn't go in and take less than this. And
I was kind of like, we got a contract. I
don't know how we're gonna get out. We notice you
have to get fired. I guess yeah, right, that's the
(45:37):
only way you know, they can fire you, right, Yeah?
So yeah, that set someone breaking up with you, right,
you have to make them break up. Yeah, you gotta
be bad guys. But y'all, I have a callback and
they give me a paper like a contract like this, right,
I'm just signing it. I look at how much I'm
(45:58):
gonna make that six thousands, right, I was like, oh,
you know, and I haven't gotten the job yet, right right.
This is the other thing. Yeah, it's my car back.
So they put me in one room and the other
girl in another room. They said, one of you are
going home and one of you going to the reading. Yes,
the table read who's the other girl? I am not.
(46:20):
I am not calling that girl's name. Of course I
remember her. She's still around. I don't know anything big
in the movie world. TV World. I don't know. Okay,
I want to ask y'all about I'm blind. I want
(46:42):
to ask about Black Love, right because Dwayne and Whitley
set the tone for black love for what seemed like
that whole generation show. Seen the show, yes, he was, Okay,
I'm gonna see it. Yeah, I love that show. Oh,
(47:05):
I wish I had seen that show before I got married.
But I want to ask about that though playing those
roles of Dwayne and Willy teach y'all anything about your
own relationships outside of the show. Wow, really good question,
Charlotte Mayne. There was some crossover because I was having
(47:26):
a better sometimes I was having a better relationship that
was scripted than in my real life, and other times
I didn't know how to negotiate real life. Like it
was one thing to be able to play something that
someone tells you to do and you know, and he's
(47:47):
easy to love and easy to work with. But um,
I kind of I don't know. I feel like I
was a bit of a mess in my real relationship.
But I been taught to him because I didn't understand
the language. I didn't understand um ultimatums and um men speak,
(48:13):
and I don't know. And you know, I got famous
during during the relationship too, and I felt like he
was good with me as a dancer in the ensemble,
but not so good with me and star. And then
and then that I again was like, well, you weren't
(48:34):
listening to me. You didn't know who I was. You know,
you don't know if somebody gets famous or not, but
certainly you knew that I was talented. Certainly there's a
possibility and you can't handle that. What am I? What
am I supposed to do with that? First of all,
(48:57):
I have a daddy and I have friends, male friends.
You're not the only You're not, you know, the only
male figure in my life. And if you're not happy,
you should lead physic insecurities. So and then I'm playing Whitley,
(49:19):
who's younger than me. I mean, her her age is
in her twenties and I'm in my thirties, you know.
And Okay, for example, I'll just say this, when we
got married, When Joyn and Whitley got married, I was
breaking up with my boyfriend of five years. Wow. Wow.
(49:41):
And the irony of that was like people were coming
up to me talking about congratulate. How do you feel
how you nervous. I'm not any more nervous than I
have been for less six years on this. Get a
(50:02):
lot of nervous today you get married. You do understand
its acting that I'm not really getting married, that this
ain't the drash right the producer something, Oh my god,
are you nervous? You're like, no, let's go already. And
(50:22):
you never tried to really highlight her when when she
lost her Man and y'all were so close and so tight.
You never never cross the line that I was in
love with that's right, Yeah, yeah, and they were best friends.
That would look now, guy, how did the impact you
off the air? Like having that that that? Yeah, it was.
(50:44):
It was strange. It was like it was too much
fun to pretend to be in love with. Yeah, it
was just it was too much of a joy. Um
the relationships off screen, it was Cree pretty much most
of the time we worked, and then then we broke up,
(51:08):
and and and as um as she was breaking up
with me giving me the ring back and was getting
ready to run off and messed with Joe Morton's character,
Cree and I had kind of broke up. Damn, what
if they had written to the script that now you
increase characters gotta be together after y'all she was with
(51:30):
Gary Dordan. Yeah yeah, I was like, I was like
one of the first yeah yeah yeah. So so the
only difficulty and the whole thing for me was was,
(51:51):
you know, having to go to work and having your
ex kind of be there. And I think people think
that we bleed in and out of reality and truth,
you know, it's because I never thought about none of that, right,
I never thought about dumb draftsman. I mean, I don't
(52:13):
even think about that. Okay, who I need to be
right now? Boom, and my real life is more important
to me than any of these bitches I play. Okay,
So when people feed into this fantasy like oh, he's
with Cree, So I'm not kind of talk it. That
(52:33):
don't happen when we off camera. We off camera, when
we on camera. Let me tell you, everybody on that
show was good. Good. That's the key too, That's right,
Daryl Bell, Lou Myers, Glenn Turman, Peddla Bell, Sean now
(52:53):
you know what I mean. We were not passing the
ball to other amateurs, That's right, y'all. The nineties bulls
talk and I don't think actors, you know, sometimes they're
so uptight that they don't want to talk and they
don't want to get notes from other people or whatever.
(53:14):
But okay, let me tell you one thing that Cadeen
told me. I was in makeup and then I was
in the middle of doing this scene with Joe Morton.
First of all, he was pissed because I had a
rule with him that we don't kiss until it's time
to film. Time to take. You don't need to kiss
him all week. I mean, you don't have to pack
(53:35):
the snow kiss, right, And so to Morting comes on
and he kisses me for real and rehearsal. But I
was taking a back, you know, because he said, I know,
I know, you just Joe Morton taking his tongue down.
You're I said, I didn't know what to say. You
(53:59):
don't used to yes, right, And then then we're filming.
We're filming just like a Thursday, and you you pop in.
I'm in makeup and I say, um, something's wrong with
the scene. You know, there's it just it just I
don't know it wasn't He said, y'all need to go
(54:21):
to the life the laboratory gets some chemistry. Wow, I
looked at him like yeah, yeah, it was like good luck.
He was like, yeah, work on it. You ain't got
no chemistry, that's what's wrong. I thought it was gonna
(54:45):
give me a note like if you sit on his lap,
you know. No, he was like, y'all need to go
to the laboratory and get some chemistry. Y'all have in
chemistry or did y'all have to like spend time together
offset to build that up? Um? I think I think
the chemistry act the actor was instant, but to really,
um make the love story true, it was work because
(55:10):
I was ultra respectful of Dominic her relationship and create
my relationship, so I wasn't really trying to, you know,
go for it. Yeah. She came one day after rehearsal
kind of like she could have with Joe but didn't,
and said, this scene isn't working, Honey. When I come
(55:31):
in the room, you have to act like you like me.
And I was being ultra respectful, trying to keep everything
out in front, and I didn't understand, and she said, okay,
hold on, you beat me and I'm gonna beat you.
So then I played with Lee for that little scene
and she played Duayne and she came in the room
(55:51):
with a whole different energy. I was like, okay, so
go for it. It was like, if you're gonna be
my man, if I'm gonna be your girl, and then
it's got to be that way. It's the only way
it's gonna work. And I'm like, you can't. Gotta tell
me twice And that was it. And then from there,
I think the relationship just got more real, more authentic,
(56:15):
and connected to people on a whole other way. I
was able to touch it anyway, getting her face anyway,
get mad at her and pointer anyway, and I love it. Yeah, yeah, right,
I know y'all gotta go, But I gotta ask this.
Speaking of that, when you crashed away, you looked very sincere,
(56:36):
like like like that's why people feel like what who
we was watching was real real, you know what I mean?
What did you do to motivate yourself to get into
that space to do that? Um? I didn't agree with
the whole like we had done so many real things
on the show, so many things that were that were
that felt real. That that from the Age and the
(56:57):
Apotheid and all of that for me to cray actually
this wedding, like this felt like a complete leap, didn't
make any sense. So and I read it two weeks before.
It was a two part episode, so I knew for
two weeks that I was gonna have to get to
that place where I had to break up this wedding.
And it was really hard. And one thing I gave
(57:18):
I gave myself was as I'm coming down the aisle,
there's a dude on my left I told him, I said,
when you grabbed me, make sure you get a good
grip on my left arm because I want to struggle
and try to get away. Wow. And as soon as
I felt him go to grab me, I gave him
a swim move and got out of it and that
(57:39):
propelled me forward. So it just kind of and then
he had to regrab I made him look silly, but
he had to regrab me and then pull me out,
and I lost the lyrics. Like I was so um,
I was so no, no no, I was so nervous
about if I don't get it right the first time,
it's going to degrade, it's gonna get worse, and it's
(58:02):
gonna get worse because I'm really having a hard time
committing to all of these words. Wow, I'm really I
don't believe it. Kadeem doesn't believe it. Dwayne has to
believe it. So I have to kind of put myself there.
And that had never been a problem before. I could
always just put myself there and go for it. And
now all of a sudden, I didn't buy it. So um.
(58:24):
Once I, you know, was getting dragged out and lost
the lyric, I panicked and I and I knew that
her cue was will you. I'm supposed to run down
all the valves and say will you, which is what
the preacher has and then she said I do, but
I got lost in the lyric and uh and just
(58:46):
yelled out, baby please, just because I was drowning. I
was like, fuck, I'm just like, we're gonna have to
do this again and again and again, and it's gonna
get worse every time and it will never be like that.
That was the first and only take in front of
that audience. That audience lost it. Were you were aware
that he was drowning in the time? How did you
(59:07):
know I was standing there because the audience was screaming too,
you know, And I was like, hold it, hold it,
I said, baby please. And then the second please it
was like jazz. Yeah. I knew that. I knew that
was jazz because please, baby, please, from from school day. Yeah.
(59:28):
So I was like, wow, okay, I got you help
me and we are not doing this shit again. Okay,
it was like that first day. Yeah nothing magic, Yeah, yeah,
became over you said you said that became over the
loudspeaker because the director is up in the booth and
(59:49):
so we can't see her directly. We can only hear
her when she gives notes or she'd give him to
the stage manager and he'll come a whisper something to us.
But she came over after everybody they calmed down, she said,
got it moving on? Wow. Yeah, I think what a relief. Wow.
So you don't want to do that again because of
the the emotional bill that was in there. But both
(01:00:13):
of us thought that ship was corny. No, no, well,
he complained, I didn't even know you had all that
that you said to them before, because I complained, I said,
please don't do the graduate Are we doing the graduate
up in the year? I don't know all I felt
it was disrespectful, you know, and and and I've I've
(01:00:38):
spoken that Spellman and those girls were like you know
that's that wasn't a compliment for him to come up
there at the last minute the night before you at
your mama's house. And if it had been me in
my real life and you came up in my mama's house,
you know, and then the next day you object no
(01:01:00):
too late. When they asked the question at the way,
and they do say if anybody disagrees with just yea
and coming to her coming to her mama's house was
my idea. I told the writers. They were like, well,
how can't we make it better for you? How can
you make it for better for you? And I said,
here's what I would do. Yeah, I would go the
night before and say, hey, if you really feel this, like,
(01:01:23):
we could jump this fence and get out of here
and then I'll never see us and I ain't gotta
do all of this wildness, you know, tomorrow. So that
was me saying to the writers, give me, you know,
this is what I would rather do, and they was like,
you can do that, but you still gotta go and
do this. Yeah. And that's why that part one it's
(01:01:44):
more real to me than that opened the door. I know.
I was like it was like yeah, because I was
like really, yeah, really, they gotta go guys. Okay, see
(01:02:04):
one I tested on Saturday on Saturday four, Yes, marathon,
We'll be there yapping away in between joints. However, they
cut it up. We went and did a little sit
down with them and uh and just talked. Oh and
I'm on Amazon. Did you go um harlem? Yeah, I
(01:02:24):
played Grace fires Mom okay um, And I'm a Jamaican
bitch so it's funny. And then yeah, I've been I
played Jamaican many times. Okay, okay, okay, I've been a
dance girl. Okay, Hey, I can't make my booty do
one at the time. And then I have a movie
(01:02:56):
called The Lady Makers. It's on Amazon too, The Lady
Makers Demon. We love y'all, and we value y'all, and
we appreciate no hip hop. I know next time time,
let me come back. Absolutely, you got the mf dom
joining you got trying to try. It was like we
(01:03:18):
got the same watching we got hip hop. I have
no idea what those things. Okay, well it's the breakfast class. Hey.
We love, we love y'all, we value y'all, we appreciate y'all,
we celebrate y'all always man. Thank you for every contribution
to the culture that y'all have ever made, and it
was a pleasure to meet both. For you, it's the
(01:03:42):
breakfast
Wake that airs up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody is DJ Envy and Ngula Yee, Charlomagne the guy.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special guests
in the best. You gotta do better than that. You
come on now, come on, come on now, come on now,
come on now, come on now. Your husband got I
(00:24):
gotta start like this. Okay, this is a fun fact. Okay.
The reason I went to Hampton University was because of
me watching a different world. How many times do y'all
hear that? At least half a dozen dozen a week?
Did you graduate? You can got. My first celebrity picture
(00:52):
I ever took with was with Kde Madison Tomorrow. We
were in the airport and you had the flip up
glasses and everything. My mom took a picture in the airport.
Was hunt a thousand pounds old you? I was young.
We was coming back from Florida. He must have just
gotten the job. Yeah, not real, a matter of fact,
(01:18):
they were the flip they were just round. Okay, yeah,
picture tomorrow, remember I remember. Sure that wasn't Jeff Man
gonna send me the picture? I'm posted, Thank you, thank you,
glad to be I know this might be an odd question,
(01:39):
but do y'all know what y'all mean to just people?
It's black people becoming more and more apparent as we
get older. As Yeah, like at first, no, in nineteen
ninety six when we were done, and probably the next
ten years not as much. But then after twenty years
(02:02):
and you think that's dead. You go somewhere and you
see somebody and their eyes jump out of their head
and they almost like the Kingdoms of the Moon that
they got, and they're like, Wow, it's you. I wanted
to be engineered because you went to Hampton. I went
to I wanted to go to him, and I was
trying to find out where the school was. So it's
(02:22):
becoming clearer and clearer as we get older. But um,
but no, at the time, it's it's very moving to
me now. But at the time, um, both of us
were you know, we were from New York where you
used to hustling. We had just done school days. We
were kind of like, okay, now what now? What? Now what?
(02:45):
And um, I don't know that we knew how the
show was resonating with our people because we were not.
I wasn't around my people. I was in La and
I went from Melrose to the Valley and back to Melrose,
and the only people I hung out with with them,
(03:08):
you know, so I wasn't hearing it. I wasn't seeing it.
And coming from theater, you know, you know when you
when you hit, when you land, you know when when
you are having a communication and Um, what has been
amazing to me is that, you know, we were always
trying to make things better, make things more believable, have
(03:31):
more depth or content, so we weren't really looking at
what was landing. I wasn't, you know, because when we talked, um,
you know, actor to actor, Kadeem and I really worked
hard on that relationship because if you look at the
first season. In the second season, I was like, I
(03:53):
don't know why why Whitley were like Dwayne based on
what I was older, I was upper classroom to him,
he was you know, they had him playing the goofy
guy and now she's dreaming about him. I would have
been dreaming about some seniors that I would like to cast.
(04:19):
But you know how much input did you both have
in some of the topics and themes that were on
a different world, because you guys did cover a lot
of real life things that you didn't see anywhere else.
They pretty much. Uh, Debbie came and she had a plan.
But do you remember that she made us right our
what we saw ourselves in five years or something like that.
(04:40):
We had we had homework and we had to all
go home and just write up a page or two
of what we saw ourselves for our characters, what we
should do. So that was as much the first season
we were there. I was there to be the snotty
(05:00):
bitch and he was there to be the goofy dude.
We were very clear, you know. The the what Debbie
did was she made our characters deeper and more realistic.
She snatched all the weaves out of my hand, even
though I have one on. She was like she came
(05:23):
into the pitch, She's like, oh, darling, where's the hot sauce. Yeah,
she made it because she went to Howard and and
what is the difference of going to a black college
or you know, a big university. Because you are loved,
you are nurtured, you are part of a neighborhood. They
don't want you to fail. They're not gonna let you fail.
(05:46):
And that came through in the way she worked with us.
You know, and um, she gave us a voice. We
couldn't give notes that first year. We were just worried
about it. Are they gonna call us? But they were
firing people. But also also the show also also the
show shifted though because what wasn't the show sitting around
Lisa Bonney the first season? But then she didn't come
(06:08):
back with a second season. I'm sure that had that
made all of y'all have to be the stars now basically, yeah,
well I thought that the show just wasn't going to
come back because she is and was the star of
that show, you know, and our characters, at least mine
was based on her, revolved around her. You know, who
(06:28):
am I going to contrast? Or or you know how
how was Whitley gonna be funny by herself? There was?
She was the Mary Tyler Moore, you know what I mean?
And I didn't understand that structural change in putting us
together when we really didn't have even that much to do.
(06:51):
But we knew each other, and I said, you know,
first of all like his big sister. So it felt
a little incestuous crush on you that first mention. You
don't have to you know, I was young I was
(07:20):
mel But the thing was we were friends and we
did have good communication. We could talk. I had better
communication with him than most of my relationships. There's no pressure.
We've I'll tell you the bad, he tell you the good.
Tell you what a lot. I was gonna ask was
(07:41):
it difficult to stay on TV? Because at the time,
there was nothing like this on television, nothing about HBCU,
nothing about colleges. Was it difficult to stay on television?
I thought the first season was difficult. I really took
the job expecting maybe we'd get six or eight episodes
dud and go back to New York, New York. It
(08:05):
was shot in La. Yeah, they shot in La. Yeah,
y'all made me feel like y'all shot in Virginia on campus,
Like I'm never in a millionars with a thought. Now
all the exteriors were in Atlanta and then spellming in
more House. Yeah, but yeah, we were just in the
studio in LA and we weren't near The Cosby Show,
which was filming in Silver Cup. So um, that was
(08:31):
a disconnection too, because Californians they never heard of HBCUs. Now,
I grew up across the street from Morehouse. I'm from Atlanta,
So it was as right as rain to me. I didn't.
I didn't realize that black people nobody knew about black colleges,
(08:52):
not on that side of it. I didn't. Ye, I
never heard of it. And then he's one of us
have gone to college, right, all going after these of
y'all actually attended an HC. In real life, I barely
got out of high school. I had to do summer
school and all of that school. Yeah, I had to
(09:13):
go to summer school on fourteen Street, Like there was
not a fourteen seventeen Street. There was a little school
that when you was messing up in your high school,
they sent you out someone. Why did the show? And
I remember that and the ninety three yall went on
(09:33):
hiatus and it just never came back, Like yeah, yeah,
I think it was. I think once once we had Jesse,
we were doing a lot of controversial stuff and I think,
you know, the Riot Show, and yeah, there was some
stuff that maybe the network wasn't as thrilled about. It
was a lot of battles back and forth with Debbie
(09:55):
and trying to, you know, make it current and relevant,
and it was like, yeah, it's just have the you know,
the Romans and The Chase and every every deep show
that we did. She fought for. It was a battle
with the network. Then white boys did not care about date, rape, apartheid, riot,
(10:16):
HIV okay. They were like, just put Whitley and Dwayne
and be funny. Wow, I did haze into haz Yes,
So y'all didn't even see it coming in I saw
it coming. We saw it coming because you know, you're
treating us like monkeys and we're not monkeys. We're not
doing your word, We're doing our word. And the power
(10:37):
that we had they diminished. I felt diminished because they
always said, but you come between Cosby and Cheers. I said,
but people can change the channel, right, they don't have
to watch this show. Yeah. Yeah. I just felt like
we were always on our own. I never felt a
part of that Hollywood system. Like I would watch Roseanne
(11:01):
Bar getting was like, I was like, is this cable whatever?
You want to go stupid? You know. I would see
people that were like the way we were an ensemble
company with with actors that and we would never get nothing.
(11:23):
You know that. I have Roseanne bar singing the anthem
at a at a Padre game. We got five singers
in our casto and we number two. Wow, that's crazy.
So I always felt the exclusion. I always felt it,
and I never felt a part of that whole. You
(11:44):
get emmies and never even got nominated, never invited to
the show. Wow, Like never like come on and present
a joint or just be in the crowd and let
us shoot the cast. That's okay. You can't put too
much cloud up into that shit, ain'tyway. I agree with
you that fact. We all can't put too much time.
(12:05):
So you can't put too much in the criticism. You
gotta know who you are and where you belong. And
that was my family, that was my company. But you know,
they used to ask me to do stuff for NBC
like parades and shit and say happy birthday to cheers.
I say, why am I seeing happy birthday to day
(12:25):
black people on the I'm getting paid for what stage? Yeah,
we have a stuff that you're scared that you're gonna
be stuck in character like that. Everybody always looked at
you as doing or you know, always looked at you
is you know Whitley. You know when you're ever scared
of that type getting type cast. I knew that as
(12:48):
soon as it was over. Well, I thought that I
should have did four years and graduated and maybe a
fifth year to transition into new cast members, new freshmen,
and then and then they should have did four five
in transit. So in my eyes, the show should have
(13:08):
never ended. It should still be on now not reruns.
Oh yeah, because it could be yeah, like how it
could be like grown, It could have been different world. Yeah,
it could just always go on because they'll always be
kids in college and they'll always be something to talk about, right,
Like Whitley graduates, but you're still there, and then people
are coming in underneathy, and then you graduate and then
the people you introduce. It just seemed like a perfect
(13:30):
vehicle to create young to showcase black talent. You know,
what didn't be said about typecasting is true, but also
man that that late eighties early nineties fame was so
big that we know y'all real names. Yea, Like I
don't just know y'all characters. I know that Jackman guy
and could Deem Hardeston's I think that means something too.
What about Marissa till May right, that's the one white
(13:52):
character on the show. Was that something that you feel
like they said we got to put a white person,
you know, on the show, or well we came on
after that, and I never understood it not being addressed.
And I actually wrote an episode. This is how naive
I was. I thought I could be on a show
and just write an episode. I was like, well, I
didn't write this, And I brought it to Susan and
(14:16):
it was addressing the fact that, um, well, she goes
to a dance and she asked us boy that you
know danced with her and he was like, you know,
I ain't dancing with no white girl. Are you trying
to you know? And she it blew her away. She
comes back and she says, I never thought about it.
She said, well, why did you? Why did you come
(14:37):
to Helmet because they have the best journalism department in
Virginia and they told me they're not addressing the white
person at the black school issue. Yeah, wow, why? I
don't know why because it was so obvious. The weirdest
thing to this day when I when I was in
and it was white kids walking around camp. It was
(14:59):
just weird, like, you know, I wanted to be like why,
but they got scholarships so they went. It was just
always weird it would be interesting to see what that
experience for them was like, they're like you said, yeah,
point way more, especially when we carrying eggs eggs around
(15:20):
like babies. I'm like, we get ready to drink. Yeah,
we listen, we are celebrating, y'all. You see we got
the balloons on the back of that same helm. I'm sorry,
I'm embarifed by the champagne they got, but we not.
Don't know, damn budget, you should go opened the really,
(15:42):
that's what really with the gradual we got we got
helm up there there you go. Thank you got to
give people their flowers, right, why not? Why not give
them to them literally my flowers. I'm very embrassed by
(16:03):
the champagne. I'm sorry. I can't believe they would do that. Well,
let me try it. I'll let you know. Back to you,
though you said you wrote that episode, you also directed
some episodes, right, did you direct episodes too? Because I
directed the fall Out my Chair, the two part episode, wow, um,
I directed to I directed another one too. I remember
(16:26):
one um, it was violent Captain the Cradle. No, that
was I can't remember his name. Thank you, sir. It's okay.
It's been a while. Okay, so did they come to
you or were you? Did you guys wanted because I
brushed my tea. I'm gonna drink it though, would y'all
(16:47):
do that? It doesn't need to be called sure, need
to be cold. He's trying to about Champagne. Had me
nervous about being on this show. I was like, is he? Like?
(17:08):
Howard sterned like what is it? I have seen you,
I've seen you interviewed, but I haven't seen you. I
hadn't seen the show. So i go on YouTube and
I'm watching it and I'm friends with Amanda Seal. Yes
you know, And I was like, okay, what's the problem, Like,
what can we talk about that's going to be so horrible? Nothing? Nothing.
(17:32):
So continued talking about directing and Debbie Allen so directing.
When it came to directing and writing, Debbie made us
put it in our contracts that we had we got
to direct that's episode or two wow, write wow season
after with the second or third season the other third season?
How did she know that? Like? How did she know that?
Something that you all want to do. The more you do,
(17:55):
the less they can tell you you can't do. Wow?
That was the word she said to me, because I
was like, I don't wondering. I didn't want to go,
and she said to me, We'll never have this opportunity again,
so you will do whatever you can while we're in
this position of power and choice. You know, I wrote, like,
(18:16):
I don't know, three three or four episodes he's directed,
Glenn Terman directed. You know. She was an advocate for
use this opportunity, so the next time, we're not behoven,
you know. Um. And it was great crossing that barrier
(18:36):
of from actor to the writer's room and hearing how
they really talked about. I was like, oh, my good.
You have to check people to check you have to
check people in the writer's room. Oh. I didn't say.
I didn't say anything in the writer's room. I just
lessened because it was twelve of them. But I didn't
I hadn't seen that process, because that all happened before
(19:00):
we get our notes, you know. And um, and well
it was it was my script that I had written,
so I had to be in the writer's room. And
that was the first time I saw them imitate imitate
us woe yeah and say, oh no, you know, don't
(19:21):
don't give her that that's a waste. I was like, Oh,
but it was good, you know. And it was good
that I was in there because, um, everybody, every artist
has to understand what the other artists do. You have
to have respect for what he does, what she does.
(19:44):
You know, just because you're in front of the camera
doesn't mean that's it, you know. And I knew that
I didn't create this character. I didn't write these words.
I don't know how to speak French. You know, whatever
was going on. I didn't dress myself. I didn't do
my hair and makeup. So I was always aware of
(20:07):
delusion that's created by a team of people. But I
also come from theater, right when you know that, you
know that when you're on stage, you're not the only
one making all that happen. Um, I didn't have I
(20:31):
know what wasn't me because of the way I was raised.
I know politically I had I had a lot of
issues with what I had to say, but I knew
that there was somebody on this show that was going
to say the right thing. When you're the only black
person in a white cast, you have to say all
the right things. But when when I was Whitley and
(20:54):
I have him and Charlie and Cree if there are
you know. I was like, well, somebody, because this is
what I'm about to say. When when I said to
Um Charnel Kimberly Reese it was apartheid show and she
was gonna give up her scholarship because they were divesting,
I said, but I only know you. I don't even
(21:16):
know those tape because you know my first scene with
Lisa Bona in the in the room, um, she's She's like,
are you saying you you you parked in the handicap?
I said, why should I be punished because I can
(21:38):
walk this bit as long as it's funny. But no,
the balance was that in the show, you know, i'd
have it out with him. I'd have it out with
somebody that would challenge that thought. So I had the
(22:02):
freedom to really go there with her wrong, which usually
with acting I'm always like, ooh, I'm not gonna you know,
But with Whitley, I said, we're gonna, We're just gonna
let her go. You have money for wardrobe too. I
was gonna say that because your wardrobes is always fly. Yeah,
so they gave you invested some money in your wardrobe.
(22:23):
Second season, you watch what I won the first season. No,
the wardrobe went to Lisa bone Nag as they should. Yeah,
but I think the wardrobe spoke to those characters too,
because Cecy did a great job knowing who these people were.
(22:43):
So it's one person doing all seven of us, you know,
from the bright colors to the um you know, I don't.
I don't know. Do you wear suits when you go
to class? I always felt like Whitley was overdressed the business.
You had to business to tire. If you're in the
business department, you have to wear a jacket. Oh and
(23:06):
what about those infamous glasses. The infamous glasses came from
our first year executive producer and beats passed away. Um. Yeah,
she went to two nights before we shot my first episode.
She went to a Bowie concert and I think his
bassis or his drummer had them on. And she came
(23:27):
to me two days before and she was like, hey,
I saw these look kind of cool. Would you want
to wear them? And at the time I thought this
ship is so corny. Give me some glasses and a
hat and a hood anyway that I can hide myself
and not be so recognized. I'll take it. Anything, so
(23:47):
so yeah, I donned him quick. I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, sure,
bang got any hats. I was in charge of the sneakers,
you know what I mean. I made sure that the
foot I chose the footwear, but I let the wardrobe
people the wardrobe until it got down to the feet
and then I was like, nah, I'll bring up some stuff.
And the ages was really bright. I just remember shoulder
(24:09):
pads and bright. Those glasses I remember, and now they're
known as d Wayne Wayne glasses. Even when you see
Jaffie Jeffer them on those Dwayne Wayne glasses no matter
who wear them, even to the day those dayne Win Glass,
(24:30):
Wade Wade wearing them. And yeah, now, what are your
thoughts on shows that represent black coach on on TV today?
I enjoy particularly Atlanta. It's probably, you know, my favorite
show because it's it's just so weird and it's so different,
(24:50):
it's so um out there that it was. It's one
of the regrets now is that and can get the
chance to do an episode of Atlanta. Like m I
called my agent as soon as I heard Don was
doing a show on facts and was like, a bro,
get me in, Like I'll pull cables, whatever they need
(25:12):
over there. I'll run camera whatever. I just want to
be a partist because I think it's going to be
special and uh and damn at the ending and I
didn't get on it. So that's my favorite one. I
enjoyed Blackish and their run um and I've I've done
a few episodes of Grownish, um and I like. I
(25:33):
like what they're doing. Although it's not an HBCU, it's not,
it's not the same, but it's still focusing on some
black kids in college, you know, moding education, which I
think is you know, can't be done enough. That whole formula,
that whole blueprint was called being in a different world.
Absolutely Blackish, Grownish Guaranteed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like Shy
and I like Insecure and I um, I am so
(25:58):
excited when I watched these shows because we would always
have ideas, but it was not the time I pitched
a lot of ideas. I had a production company, and
just to be able to see our voice and the
textures of our culture, and um, that the producers are
(26:22):
black and that they are women, is that makes me
feel good. Absolutely. So Luthina Wave too, she you know,
she loves, loves, y'all. Her whole production company is called
Human Human Productions. Yep, yeah, I was gonna as you
mentioned a tuopoc episode. I know both of you guys
were close with Tupoca, cool with Tupacs, So how did
those relationships happen? For me? I was just directing them
(26:45):
that week, the better one, Okay, cool, all right, cold up.
I don't know what come out with me. I'm not
(27:06):
really Yeah, yeah, I just got to direct him. I
was fortunate, you know. Uh Jada said he wanted to
do this show, and he was excited. And I know
friends with many MCS rappers, and I know how they
get fuck off some time. So I was real nervous,
(27:28):
like my first week direct and I was like, is
he gonna show? Like because I I've messed around trying
to do a video with Dirty and he never showed. Yeah,
I got your money. Yes, I remember that because yes.
And then actually, because I was working with them at
the time, he actually came and did a video that
he was on for Jess and they wouldn't let it
(27:50):
come out. The label weren't clear Dirty because he didn't
show up to his own video. Yes, I was down
there waiting six to seven hours they asked me. I
was like, of course, I love Yeah. When you see
that video, they don't really show his face, it's just like,
yeah a big wig and yeah so um so yeah.
So I was just nervous as my first directing gig,
(28:11):
just like, okay, I just hope he's and once he came,
he was. I always thought it's not not a hot take,
but I always thought he was probably going to be
a better actor than rapper. Yeah, I didn't. You know,
music is subjective like blah blah blah. You like it
or you don't know, or it fits what you where
you are in the time of your life. I just
(28:33):
he scared me. As an actor. I was like, this
dude can reach places that I can't even imagine because eyes,
you know how they always talk about actors. You can
see what they can do by looking in their eyes,
like podcast in mine. Look at him, go, Jamine, aren't
you working on a documentary? Yes, they're doing a movie
about his mother. And I wrote the book Evolution of
a Revolutionary about a fanny. Um, it's just interesting. If
(28:59):
you stay here long enough, you'll see how interesting life is.
Because when I wrote that book, like you know, twenty
years ago. Whatever. It was really to empower a Faeney
because I felt like, you know, how would somebody do
good in your family? And then they bring the whole
(29:19):
family with him And I just saw this BOYD twenty one,
like with all these people, like, what are you doing?
How come you ain't working? Wait? You in school? I
was just so middle class. Okay when I met the
Shaker Cox family, and I would I would just talk
(29:39):
to them one on one and just try to find
out where they were because I didn't I mean, if
I had gotten a different world and my whole family
was depending on me too, you know what I mean.
I never knew that pressure. And when I talked to
a Faeny First of all, I always wanted to tell
the story of a email panther because I feel like
(30:03):
all the movies that I've seen have been biased, I
mean because they don't tell the truth about the I
know you were in one, you know, yeah, but how
macho and how you know sexist? Yeah, the misogyny was rampant.
That was the era too, though, Like that's that whole era.
(30:26):
I'm just saying it hasn't been told that, you know,
And I thought, well, can we tell aside of shakur story?
Can we of, you know, doing Angela Davis? Can we
do Kathleen Clever? And when I met Tupac, I didn't
want to say, oh, I can't wait to meet your mom,
(30:48):
So I didn't um But and I didn't really realize
her story because it was all the newspaper. It was.
There wasn't any Lenny your story about her. Anyway, I
started talking to her about telling her story and doing
speaking engagements on her own. Right. She's highly intelligent, and
(31:12):
I don't know that's how it started. And I ended
up writing the book because she didn't want to talk
to nobody else. I mean, after we had done all
those interviews and stuff. She was like then. And then
there was a lot going on with Tupac. And when
I met him, I met him four months before he
(31:33):
was shot. Then he healed, then he went to jail,
then he came out, then he had shot again, you
know what I mean. And so I just put it
on the back burner. But a Pheney's story is incredible,
and she wanted to talk more about her life than
(31:53):
the Panther movement, because that's like from nineteen to twenty one,
she wanted to talk about crack, she wanted to talk
about her recovery, she wanted to talk about, um, you know,
raising her two kids. And you know, I don't know,
so I wanted to ask y'all man, you know, I
often feel spoiled because I'm forty four. So you know,
(32:14):
like in the mid eighties, we saw black sitcoms like
The Jeffersons and Different Strokes, but then you know, the
Cosby's came in two, two sevens in Different Worlds. But
I feel like all of that just came to a
abrupt end, like towards the end of the nineties. Number one.
Do you think that was the renaissance for black TV?
And do you think there was something bigger at play
to stop all of those positive images of black people
(32:35):
on TV? It only seems that like if it walks
like a duck and it quacks like a duck. Um,
I don't have any evidence to support it except for
the optics. So yeah, I do think it was our
last season number two, number one. Sometimes Colby in a
(33:00):
different world for five, six, seven years. Okay, why would
you put why would you change our time slot? And
why would you put us again against Martin? Wow? Yeah,
I definitely took that personally. You ain't got but two
black shows on the networks, and you put us at
(33:22):
the same time against each other, And what have we done?
What have we done to deserve this kind of disservice?
You know, we're not competing with Martin. We come under
eight thirty, they come on at eight. Why did you
move us? That was detriment? That because Cosby show ended,
(33:43):
and didn't they put y'all up at eight because Cobby
was deleting. Okay, so that could have been it just
strong enough. We weren't strong enough to hold another time
slot and not against Martin. Yeah, my fact. I feel
like we have the same audience, and so what do
(34:06):
white people do divide? That's right, that's right, that's right.
You and you. You got two hit shows, Let's put
them on at this same time. They don't do that
to their own shows. So, yes, I do feel like
it was deliberate. I feel like it was racist. I
(34:30):
know who was running NBC at the time, and I
don't feel we were respected m because I feel like
I feel like they always said y'all came between Cosby
and Cheers, and that's why you're number two. They said
that to my face. I did, Dennis, um, Yes, so
(34:53):
what was chips? Was chips three? I don't know? Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay,
all right, he was they were three. So they thought
it was because of the network that these shows were
having all the success because as a time slot between
one and three, we gotta be between one and three. Yeah,
which is fine, right, I really don't care, you know,
(35:16):
but that you make that a point that I come
on a nighttime talk show with Joan Rivers or Dennis
Miller and that's the first thing after your mouth, well
how does it feel to be between Cosby and Cheers?
And and sometimes I didn't I didn't know how to
answer it. And Dennis Miller even said to me that
(35:38):
was that was a horrible lead, Yes, because you fucking
insulted me and you acting like I'm the ship, which
one of mine, you know, because people would have turned
off right after the Cosby Show and not watch that
or Cheers? Did they pay y'all like y'all wanted to didy,
(36:00):
I'll get paid? Or did you have to fight for that?
We had to fight for that. I went and did
I went, And the White Man can't jump can I
have another champion something good stuff. I went and did
White Man Can't Jump and met Body Harrelson and and
(36:20):
he was doing cheers and they had a way bigger ensemble,
and you know, he kind of let me in on
what he was making. I was like, y'all, number three,
what I know. That's when it hurts. It's when we
go when we talked word up. We went out into
the field and found out the cheers they were. I
(36:41):
was like, how he had an assistant all kind of
chick going on. I was like, where you get, Like
you just came off the bike in New York. But
I'm confused about that because you had Bill Cosby, who
already had so much success. Why wouldn't he give that
game to the spinoff show the He purposely had us
(37:03):
shoot in California away from him. I don't think he
wanted to have to shoulder. He was running. He was
running this this was it boom, y'all go over here
and work that out. And then when it wasn't working
to the way I think we all wanted called the
Debbian said miss then getting in with your broom and
(37:24):
clean that shit up. It seemed like she was a
blessing though. Absolutely, no, No, she was the best thing
that could have happened to us. That show was Dad. Yeah,
that show was on that show and Susan fails. I mean,
we had brilliant women running that show, turning out around,
(37:46):
fighting against the network, fighting for you know, she said,
where's the dark skinned people at this school? Where's the
brown people? You can't it? I don't know. I just
thought that first season, I already had called my parents.
(38:07):
I was like, well, I've made um, I've made thirty
thousand dollars and I paid off Greg and I'm paying
off my Amax and I'm going back to my apartment
because I thought that ship was Booty got paid during
the table, y'all was number one and number two. Can
(38:28):
we say thirty years ago? I thought you I thought
I saw you say that somewhere. I thought I saw
I think he was with Ryan Cameron or I saw
you said somewhere miss guy. You know Ryan, Yeah, radio legion,
of course, I like you radio people. I saw you
say that somewhere. How much y'all made? It was the
first season. I made thousand dollars a week. I mean
(38:51):
that was I was like, that was what dollars at
the Village Game. I didn't have any compny games. Yeah,
you know, I had done. When I did Broadway as
an ensemble member, I made eight hundred dollars a week.
(39:15):
That was a lot of money. When I did Fame
the TV show, I was making seven hundred and fifty
dollars a week. And when I worked when they Danced
with Ali's, I made seventy five dollars a week. This year,
(39:36):
I just thought, he but we only had contracts for
seven episode. You didn't know how lot it was gonna last. No,
and they were firing people to sign years before you that.
Yeah no. But I went into the producers and I
tried to give my two week notice, right she. I said,
(39:59):
I'm very grateful for this. And because that that first season,
I'm telling you it was whack. And I didn't like
the way they were treat treating Lisa bon name. And
they said, well have they said, had so and so
said anything to you? I said, you disrespect her in
(40:19):
front of the audience in front of me. You disrespected
me too. Just do it just all up in her face.
And you know, I'm like, that's a sweet girl, because
you're not getting up on me like that, and you
know we've that with bitches. I mean we from New
(40:41):
York as far as choreographers and directors and whatnot. But
I was like, you know, I didn't interfere on set,
but I was like, oh no, oh no, you're not
treating her like that. She had dire security really, so
(41:03):
that's why she quit. Probably no because wanted her to
be on because you didn't want to show black girl
pregnant in college that I thought it would have been
a great UM tool and something to it could inspire,
because it was all inspiring, So why not, you know,
(41:25):
because that's the real thing. Still get your education. As
I've heard so many rumors that I don't know where
what comes from. I've heard that he wanted to incorporate
it on the show on our show. I've also heard
that Jesse wanted to um have a single mom because
he's from a single mom that went through school. And
(41:47):
then I've also heard that UM that was a network
that didn't want to incorporate her wholesome whatever. But first
of all, it was have given her something to play, absolutely,
because I felt like they were always looking for Denise huckstaball,
you're not using the meat that she comes from. You
(42:12):
don't know what you're looking at because you haven't seen
a little black girl like this before. And to give
her a baby, you go something to do and it
would have helped the jalsaccount ye, and then your ass
would have been human have been messing with you. You
you gotta go back to when you quit, so you
(42:33):
quite They didn't tell me. They didn't tell me that
I couldn't quit, but you know, come back to mo
No see you in the morning. I had grievances, so
(42:55):
as I was quitting, I was also expressing my grievances
and they listened to those, and then he asked me
if I had any insight to such and such. I
said no, no, not really, Like I just want to
go back to New York and get another job. Is
what's such story up to? Yaw, y'all got more money too, though,
(43:24):
How do you end up getting the more money after
the conversation with Woody Housing? Uh? Yeah, it was it
was hold out time for me. It was we held
out yeah as a team. Boy. No, we should have
done it together, but we did it separately. Sometimes I
was the last one and it was like the reading
and all this drama, and I'm like, why do I
(43:48):
have to do this? It is very degrading. It's very degrading.
And then you know other actors that aren't going to
that bullshit. I'm like, yeah, I remember, I remember sitting
at home playing sick, like, I'm sorry, Debbie, I can't
(44:08):
get I'm not gonna make it. He was taking COVID
all those years ago. I'm not gonna be able to come. Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, I said, and I think I think
Jasmine is sick too, And she said, Darling, Jasmine is here.
(44:29):
And I was like, damn it, yeah codate and had
to get on and get in my car and drive
the work late like yeah, I'm better now. But y'all
oventually got the money though, Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, I
mean got some we got the money I got. I
got what wood he was making when I talked to
him up. There was your mom in the business at
(44:52):
this point. She was my manager. She was okay, so
all the time she was managing Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,
I taught her. She says, not me, power of no.
You know. She was like, I think you should go
back in. I was like, no, not for that, not
for this. Okay because fierce. Okay, yeah that's yeah. Yeah.
(45:16):
I was yeah, she'll say that right there. I learned
about the power of no, and you knew your worth
and wouldn't go in and take less than this. And
I was kind of like, we got a contract. I
don't know how we're gonna get out. We notice you
have to get fired. I guess yeah, right, that's the
(45:37):
only way you know, they can fire you, right, Yeah?
So yeah, that set someone breaking up with you, right,
you have to make them break up. Yeah, you gotta
be bad guys. But y'all, I have a callback and
they give me a paper like a contract like this, right,
I'm just signing it. I look at how much I'm
(45:58):
gonna make that six thousands, right, I was like, oh,
you know, and I haven't gotten the job yet, right right.
This is the other thing. Yeah, it's my car back.
So they put me in one room and the other
girl in another room. They said, one of you are
going home and one of you going to the reading. Yes,
the table read who's the other girl? I am not.
(46:20):
I am not calling that girl's name. Of course I
remember her. She's still around. I don't know anything big
in the movie world. TV World. I don't know. Okay,
I want to ask y'all about I'm blind. I want
(46:42):
to ask about Black Love, right because Dwayne and Whitley
set the tone for black love for what seemed like
that whole generation show. Seen the show, yes, he was, Okay,
I'm gonna see it. Yeah, I love that show. Oh,
(47:05):
I wish I had seen that show before I got married.
But I want to ask about that though playing those
roles of Dwayne and Willy teach y'all anything about your
own relationships outside of the show. Wow, really good question,
Charlotte Mayne. There was some crossover because I was having
(47:26):
a better sometimes I was having a better relationship that
was scripted than in my real life, and other times
I didn't know how to negotiate real life. Like it
was one thing to be able to play something that
someone tells you to do and you know, and he's
(47:47):
easy to love and easy to work with. But um,
I kind of I don't know. I feel like I
was a bit of a mess in my real relationship.
But I been taught to him because I didn't understand
the language. I didn't understand um ultimatums and um men speak,
(48:13):
and I don't know. And you know, I got famous
during during the relationship too, and I felt like he
was good with me as a dancer in the ensemble,
but not so good with me and star. And then
and then that I again was like, well, you weren't
(48:34):
listening to me. You didn't know who I was. You know,
you don't know if somebody gets famous or not, but
certainly you knew that I was talented. Certainly there's a
possibility and you can't handle that. What am I? What
am I supposed to do with that? First of all,
(48:57):
I have a daddy and I have friends, male friends.
You're not the only You're not, you know, the only
male figure in my life. And if you're not happy,
you should lead physic insecurities. So and then I'm playing Whitley,
(49:19):
who's younger than me. I mean, her her age is
in her twenties and I'm in my thirties, you know.
And Okay, for example, I'll just say this, when we
got married, When Joyn and Whitley got married, I was
breaking up with my boyfriend of five years. Wow. Wow.
(49:41):
And the irony of that was like people were coming
up to me talking about congratulate. How do you feel
how you nervous. I'm not any more nervous than I
have been for less six years on this. Get a
(50:02):
lot of nervous today you get married. You do understand
its acting that I'm not really getting married, that this
ain't the drash right the producer something, Oh my god,
are you nervous? You're like, no, let's go already. And
(50:22):
you never tried to really highlight her when when she
lost her Man and y'all were so close and so tight.
You never never cross the line that I was in
love with that's right, Yeah, yeah, and they were best friends.
That would look now, guy, how did the impact you
off the air? Like having that that that? Yeah, it was.
(50:44):
It was strange. It was like it was too much
fun to pretend to be in love with. Yeah, it
was just it was too much of a joy. Um
the relationships off screen, it was Cree pretty much most
of the time we worked, and then then we broke up,
(51:08):
and and and as um as she was breaking up
with me giving me the ring back and was getting
ready to run off and messed with Joe Morton's character,
Cree and I had kind of broke up. Damn, what
if they had written to the script that now you
increase characters gotta be together after y'all she was with
(51:30):
Gary Dordan. Yeah yeah, I was like, I was like
one of the first yeah yeah yeah. So so the
only difficulty and the whole thing for me was was,
(51:51):
you know, having to go to work and having your
ex kind of be there. And I think people think
that we bleed in and out of reality and truth,
you know, it's because I never thought about none of that, right,
I never thought about dumb draftsman. I mean, I don't
(52:13):
even think about that. Okay, who I need to be
right now? Boom, and my real life is more important
to me than any of these bitches I play. Okay,
So when people feed into this fantasy like oh, he's
with Cree, So I'm not kind of talk it. That
(52:33):
don't happen when we off camera. We off camera, when
we on camera. Let me tell you, everybody on that
show was good. Good. That's the key too, That's right,
Daryl Bell, Lou Myers, Glenn Turman, Peddla Bell, Sean now
(52:53):
you know what I mean. We were not passing the
ball to other amateurs, That's right, y'all. The nineties bulls
talk and I don't think actors, you know, sometimes they're
so uptight that they don't want to talk and they
don't want to get notes from other people or whatever.
(53:14):
But okay, let me tell you one thing that Cadeen
told me. I was in makeup and then I was
in the middle of doing this scene with Joe Morton.
First of all, he was pissed because I had a
rule with him that we don't kiss until it's time
to film. Time to take. You don't need to kiss
him all week. I mean, you don't have to pack
(53:35):
the snow kiss, right, And so to Morting comes on
and he kisses me for real and rehearsal. But I
was taking a back, you know, because he said, I know,
I know, you just Joe Morton taking his tongue down.
You're I said, I didn't know what to say. You
(53:59):
don't used to yes, right, And then then we're filming.
We're filming just like a Thursday, and you you pop in.
I'm in makeup and I say, um, something's wrong with
the scene. You know, there's it just it just I
don't know it wasn't He said, y'all need to go
(54:21):
to the life the laboratory gets some chemistry. Wow, I
looked at him like yeah, yeah, it was like good luck.
He was like, yeah, work on it. You ain't got
no chemistry, that's what's wrong. I thought it was gonna
(54:45):
give me a note like if you sit on his lap,
you know. No, he was like, y'all need to go
to the laboratory and get some chemistry. Y'all have in
chemistry or did y'all have to like spend time together
offset to build that up? Um? I think I think
the chemistry act the actor was instant, but to really,
um make the love story true, it was work because
(55:10):
I was ultra respectful of Dominic her relationship and create
my relationship, so I wasn't really trying to, you know,
go for it. Yeah. She came one day after rehearsal
kind of like she could have with Joe but didn't,
and said, this scene isn't working, Honey. When I come
(55:31):
in the room, you have to act like you like me.
And I was being ultra respectful, trying to keep everything
out in front, and I didn't understand, and she said, okay,
hold on, you beat me and I'm gonna beat you.
So then I played with Lee for that little scene
and she played Duayne and she came in the room
(55:51):
with a whole different energy. I was like, okay, so
go for it. It was like, if you're gonna be
my man, if I'm gonna be your girl, and then
it's got to be that way. It's the only way
it's gonna work. And I'm like, you can't. Gotta tell
me twice And that was it. And then from there,
I think the relationship just got more real, more authentic,
(56:15):
and connected to people on a whole other way. I
was able to touch it anyway, getting her face anyway,
get mad at her and pointer anyway, and I love it. Yeah, yeah, right,
I know y'all gotta go, But I gotta ask this.
Speaking of that, when you crashed away, you looked very sincere,
(56:36):
like like like that's why people feel like what who
we was watching was real real, you know what I mean?
What did you do to motivate yourself to get into
that space to do that? Um? I didn't agree with
the whole like we had done so many real things
on the show, so many things that were that were
that felt real. That that from the Age and the
(56:57):
Apotheid and all of that for me to cray actually
this wedding, like this felt like a complete leap, didn't
make any sense. So and I read it two weeks before.
It was a two part episode, so I knew for
two weeks that I was gonna have to get to
that place where I had to break up this wedding.
And it was really hard. And one thing I gave
(57:18):
I gave myself was as I'm coming down the aisle,
there's a dude on my left I told him, I said,
when you grabbed me, make sure you get a good
grip on my left arm because I want to struggle
and try to get away. Wow. And as soon as
I felt him go to grab me, I gave him
a swim move and got out of it and that
(57:39):
propelled me forward. So it just kind of and then
he had to regrab I made him look silly, but
he had to regrab me and then pull me out,
and I lost the lyrics. Like I was so um,
I was so no, no no, I was so nervous
about if I don't get it right the first time,
it's going to degrade, it's gonna get worse, and it's
(58:02):
gonna get worse because I'm really having a hard time
committing to all of these words. Wow, I'm really I
don't believe it. Kadeem doesn't believe it. Dwayne has to
believe it. So I have to kind of put myself there.
And that had never been a problem before. I could
always just put myself there and go for it. And
now all of a sudden, I didn't buy it. So um.
(58:24):
Once I, you know, was getting dragged out and lost
the lyric, I panicked and I and I knew that
her cue was will you. I'm supposed to run down
all the valves and say will you, which is what
the preacher has and then she said I do, but
I got lost in the lyric and uh and just
(58:46):
yelled out, baby please, just because I was drowning. I
was like, fuck, I'm just like, we're gonna have to
do this again and again and again, and it's gonna
get worse every time and it will never be like that.
That was the first and only take in front of
that audience. That audience lost it. Were you were aware
that he was drowning in the time? How did you
(59:07):
know I was standing there because the audience was screaming too,
you know, And I was like, hold it, hold it,
I said, baby please. And then the second please it
was like jazz. Yeah. I knew that. I knew that
was jazz because please, baby, please, from from school day. Yeah.
(59:28):
So I was like, wow, okay, I got you help
me and we are not doing this shit again. Okay,
it was like that first day. Yeah nothing magic, Yeah, yeah,
became over you said you said that became over the
loudspeaker because the director is up in the booth and
(59:49):
so we can't see her directly. We can only hear
her when she gives notes or she'd give him to
the stage manager and he'll come a whisper something to us.
But she came over after everybody they calmed down, she said,
got it moving on? Wow. Yeah, I think what a relief. Wow.
So you don't want to do that again because of
the the emotional bill that was in there. But both
(01:00:13):
of us thought that ship was corny. No, no, well,
he complained, I didn't even know you had all that
that you said to them before, because I complained, I said,
please don't do the graduate Are we doing the graduate
up in the year? I don't know all I felt
it was disrespectful, you know, and and and I've I've
(01:00:38):
spoken that Spellman and those girls were like you know
that's that wasn't a compliment for him to come up
there at the last minute the night before you at
your mama's house. And if it had been me in
my real life and you came up in my mama's house,
you know, and then the next day you object no
(01:01:00):
too late. When they asked the question at the way,
and they do say if anybody disagrees with just yea
and coming to her coming to her mama's house was
my idea. I told the writers. They were like, well,
how can't we make it better for you? How can
you make it for better for you? And I said,
here's what I would do. Yeah, I would go the
night before and say, hey, if you really feel this, like,
(01:01:23):
we could jump this fence and get out of here
and then I'll never see us and I ain't gotta
do all of this wildness, you know, tomorrow. So that
was me saying to the writers, give me, you know,
this is what I would rather do, and they was like,
you can do that, but you still gotta go and
do this. Yeah. And that's why that part one it's
(01:01:44):
more real to me than that opened the door. I know.
I was like it was like yeah, because I was
like really, yeah, really, they gotta go guys. Okay, see
(01:02:04):
one I tested on Saturday on Saturday four, Yes, marathon,
We'll be there yapping away in between joints. However, they
cut it up. We went and did a little sit
down with them and uh and just talked. Oh and
I'm on Amazon. Did you go um harlem? Yeah, I
(01:02:24):
played Grace fires Mom okay um, And I'm a Jamaican
bitch so it's funny. And then yeah, I've been I
played Jamaican many times. Okay, okay, okay, I've been a
dance girl. Okay, Hey, I can't make my booty do
one at the time. And then I have a movie
(01:02:56):
called The Lady Makers. It's on Amazon too, The Lady
Makers Demon. We love y'all, and we value y'all, and
we appreciate no hip hop. I know next time time,
let me come back. Absolutely, you got the mf dom
joining you got trying to try. It was like we
(01:03:18):
got the same watching we got hip hop. I have
no idea what those things. Okay, well it's the breakfast class. Hey.
We love, we love y'all, we value y'all, we appreciate y'all,
we celebrate y'all always man. Thank you for every contribution
to the culture that y'all have ever made, and it
was a pleasure to meet both. For you, it's the
(01:03:42):
breakfast
The Breakfast Club News
Hosts And Creators
Charlamagne Tha God
DJ Envy
Jess Hilarious
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!