Naked Sports: Red, Black and Blue with Garrison Hayes

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
in women's basketball right now is what we've been trying to.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Get to for almost thirty years.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the stadiums where athletes to break barriers and set records.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Kaitenanquar broke the all time single game assists record. This
is crazy for rookies to be doing.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, welcome back to

(00:51):
another edition of Naked Sports. Which girl Carrie Champion. I
appreciate you all being here and listening and being faithful.
I will introduce our next guest in a few moments.
You're gonna be You're gonna be happy to hear from him.
He is a true to me, a teacher, a professor.
He calls himself a digital creator, but he definitely has
found a way to speak to the culture. But before

(01:13):
I get into that, I have to talk about our podcast.
Let them play WNBA Growing Pains. That's our podcast from
last week. If you didn't listen, please do. But I
want to address something that is disturbing and and I
don't know if anybody will hear this, but I am

(01:35):
really really tired of the narrative that these women in
the WNBA are jealous of Kitlyn Clark, or Angel Reese
doesn't like Caitlyn Clark, or we should be grateful for
Caitlyn Clark. If you've listened to me, you know I
am a big proponent of saying we as fans can't
be mad at how she is getting attention, how the

(01:56):
media is covering her, how legends in our business revere
her so soon, so quickly. I think of a Dick
Vital who said the women of the WNBA are jealous
of Kaitlyn Clark. Charles Barkley echoed something very similar Stephen A. Smith,
same thing.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
These people, these.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Voices that we hear consistently in sports, that we regard
as credible and worthy of our time, are sending that message.
They are sending that message without hesitation, that Kitlyn Clark
is untouchable and the women of the WNBA are jealous.

(02:35):
The reason why that bothers me. I can give you
a ton of reasons why. I can tell you that
Dick Vital or Charles Barkley or Stephen A. Smith weren't
watching the WNBA in ninety seven in a real way.
I can tell you these men just started to watch
the WNBA because of Katelyn Clark, I'm sure. And now
that they've watched and they're paying attention, they're like, oh,
it's not, Oh okay, it's it's kind of interesting. I

(02:58):
just don't believe that they have the right, nor do
they have the knowledge and or acumen to make such
a sweeping statement as if it is fact. And because yes,
and even if it is fact, even if it is.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
True, who cares?

Speaker 1 (03:13):
There are people who were jealous of Lebron and Kobe
and Barkley and name any other superstar player. Players in
the NBA were jealous as well. And it wasn't headline news,
and it wasn't something that people stopped and paid attention to.
It wasn't something where you said, oh, everybody's jealous of Lebron.
Let's talk about it, and it is this gender bias

(03:33):
and how in which men, the way they consume women's sports,
feel like they have to point out women being caddied.
And you all know, if anybody's listening to this podcast,
the biggest gossips, the biggest caddiest people usually aren't women. Okay, guys, Okay.
Whenever I hear something about some gossip, it's usually coming
from a male. I just want to let you know,

(03:54):
especially in this business. But to my point, so what
if they are jealous? So what if they are competitive?
That is sport. It happens all the time. And I
hate how precious you all are being with Caitlin. I'm saying, yes,
and these two things can exist. Yes, and yes they
may be jealous. Yes, they might be upset with the

(04:15):
fact that she's getting all the attention, and they also
are still playing the sport. They also are still showing her.
She's still not regarded as other legends are. She isn't
the best in the league. No one is saying that.
I most definitely am not saying that she is the
best in the league. I'm saying she's a super nova
with a special talent. Doesn't mean she's the best in
the league. It means there's something about her that is

(04:37):
drawing people to her, that makes people who have never
watched this game before want to watch the game.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Let's ride that wave that's separate.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I really truly cannot stand that listening comprehension is gone
these days. No one pays attention. I'm not saying she's
the best. I'm not saying that angel Reese is not
as good as her. In fact, I think Angel Reese
is a dog. I think they both are figuring it out.
Is there's sophomore seasons. They are going to have great streaks,
They're gonna have bad streaks. It's how sport works. But

(05:07):
the growing pains of the WNBA specifically come from people
who are not allowing this sport to grow. Everyone has
an opinion. Everyone thinks the media, the media, the big
bad media, is for Caitlyn Clark. And I can see
why because some of the biggest voices with the biggest
platforms are are truly caping for her. They are laying,

(05:30):
they're taking off their capes and they're throwing it over
a puddle of water, and they're saying, Caitlyn, come on.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Walk over, friend, we got to help you. You're so precious.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I understand that, I truly do, but everyone doesn't feel
that way. And I do believe that what we're going
to witness in the coming days, years, or months is
a breaking point. The women who've built this league from
ninety seven are going to be fed up. They're going
to be fed up, and they're going to start saying more,

(05:58):
and they're going to start saying more, and that's going
to start to affect the game, and in a real way.
This is a PSA for the commissioner of the WNBA,
Kathy Ingelbert. You need to get it together. You need
to get it together. You need to know who your
players are. You need to understand what they want. You
need not be afraid of having these uncomfortable conversations, and
you need to not treat this like it's just solely

(06:20):
a business. You're dealing with souls. You're dealing with women
who are used to being marginalized. You're dealing with women
who have big voices. You're dealing with women who understand
right from wrong, and this freedom that they are starting
to experience. And what I mean by freedom is the attention,
the time and the money that they're making. What comes
with all of that, when you know that you are
a precious commodity, comes this ego, comes this inner voice,

(06:43):
and it comes at a cost. And they're not going
to let you continue. This is for you, miss Ingelbert, commissioner, Ingelbert.
They're not going to let you continue to ignore that.
They're not going to let you continue to ignore the
fact that they are being treated differently because they are
not Caitlin Clark pains all growing pains. I just hate

(07:05):
and I'm fed up. I just hate that we're letting
people who don't even understand the sport create this narrative.
Why do we care what RG three has to say?

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Why do we care that.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
RG three says he knows people in Angel Reese's inner
circle that says she does not like Caitlin Clark. Why
does he matter? Why does his voice matter? Why are
we giving him attention?

Speaker 3 (07:31):
To my point earlier? Has he been a fan of
the WNBA or is this new?

Speaker 1 (07:37):
His eyes tell him that Angel Reese doesn't like Kitlyn Clark.
Who cares? And I'll wrap it up with this, It's
okay to not like your opponent. I don't know if
you know that this thing called sports, I'm gonna say
it every week, it's okay not to like somebody you
go up against, because you all want the same thing,

(07:58):
and that is to be the best. We've seen that, right.
Why is it different for women? Why do we have
to bring in Caddy? Why do we have to bring
in oh, they're jealous? Why do we have to bring
in all of these these tropes of how women interact
with other women. Why can't it just be we have
athletes who just don't get along. Athletes are like Caitlin Clark.

(08:19):
You don't handle the ball well. You can shoot your
ass off, but you don't handle that ball well. And
stop and stop flopping and stop acting like people are
are trying you. That's what sport is. Because the biggest
complain about Kaitlin Clark, honestly from other players, is that
she winds too much. It's everybody else's fault and that
might be her and that might be her downfall. Correct,
that might be her issue. Maybe she needs she'll work

(08:41):
on it.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Who knows. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
It's too early to tell. I don't have a firm opinion.
My opinion can be changed on that. But from what
I see. Yeah, no, she's not the top guard in
the league, not the top point guard in the league
at all, not at all, And we know that.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
But that's okay.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I just simply want us to be able to
talk about these women the way we talk about NBA players.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Narrative.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Lebron winds too much on social media. Get off of
social media. Remember back in the day, I'm old enough
to remember, we couldn't stand Lebron on social media with
all his passive aggressive tweets.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Who are you talking about? Say it? Kobe? No one
like Kobe. He was mean. He didn't get along with Shaq.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
People thought Shaq was the nicest one and Kobe was
mean and he ran shack out of la. Michael Jordan
was physically getting his ass handed to him when he
played for the Chicago Bulls when he went up against
the Detroit Pistons before he finally got his first chip.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
They used to physically beat.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
The hell out of that man until he got in
the gym and figured it out. I go down a list,
I go down a list of narratives for NBA players,
and of surrounding all of those narratives, nobody talked about
being jealous. Nobody talked about the fact that Lebron was
mad when stuff was getting all the attention and he was.
Nobody was talking about the fact that Michael Jordan don't

(10:03):
really fool with Lebron like that. Maybe is Jordan jealous?
Is Jordan jealous? Was Kobe jealous? Was the Magic Johnson jealous? No, y'all,
don't even that. Don't even come in you'll mind.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Y'all make me sick. Y'all make me sick.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I'm not talking to people who don't think like this,
but the rest of y'all make me sick, all right,
that's my vent. I approve that message coming up on
the show today. I love him so much. And by
the way, I've never met him, but I love him
so much. Some people are put on this planet to
give us very special messages, Messages that teach us, that

(10:40):
make us think, messages that challenge us. Whether you are
black or white, male or female, whatever you are. I
believe that if you listen to Garrison Hayes, heeds you
in education. So today on Naked we're gonna talk to
Garrison travels what he's been able to find out, and

(11:02):
I hope it's an education for you all, because there's
so much we just don't know about myself, included.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Welcome to Naked Sports. I'm Carrie Champion back in a moment.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Hey, my name is Garrison Hayes. I am a journalist
and creator. I love history, I love black people. Those
are probably the most important things to know about me
from a content perspective. Originally from Atlanta, Georgia, but currently
in Nashville. So it feels really really important to tell
you that I'm from Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Because why does it feel really important to tell me
you're from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, you live in Nashville, because I live in Nashville,
and you can't if you're from Atlanta. You can't live
in any other Southern city and be like, oh, I'm
from here. No, No, you have to let people know
I am from the southern city, especially for black people. Atlanta, Georgia.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's the one that matters. I got you.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
I lived in Atlanta for a hot stint. I enjoy Yeah,
I loved it. I was a local news reporter.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
It was it was, it was, it was. Can I
explain Atlanta? Atlanta for me really helped me solidify my
blackness and I know that sounds crazy, but I grew
up in California. I grew up in LA and it's.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Really set apart from the rest of the world. When
you live in.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
California, the isms aren't obvious, especially not when I was
growing up. Like if someone was a racist, I wouldn't
know if someone didn't like me.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
I really didn't.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
The first place I would go wasn't about who I
was or the color of my skin because it's such
a community I grew in Pasadena, especially in Pasadena, everyone
is just it's a mixing melting pot, and I didn't
really know what I needed to know, which brings me
to my point of wanting to bring you on how
I grew up. I didn't have storytellers passing down oral history.

(12:52):
I didn't know much about the black experience that my
mother had growing up, or even my grandmother for that matter,
who grew up in the South. You and I have
talked to her. I didn't have that oral history. It
just wasn't a part of my childhood. And I don't
know why, but it just wasn't. And when I got older,
I made sure that I became more and more curious,

(13:13):
but there was just so much. I didn't know you
as a creator, as a storyteller. As a journalist, you
do something that I find invaluable, and you are able
to reach audiences of different ages, and that is tell
stories black history. And so when you say you love
black people, you love history. That's most important. It is
evident in the work that you do. Thank you for

(13:34):
doing that.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
No, that means a lot to me. Thank you so much, Carrie.
You know it's funny. I grew up similarly. Maybe we'll
talk about our grandmothers today. I grew up with my nana,
who is born in the South, still alive and well
and doing great and all of that. And she told
me all of these stories about her life growing up

(13:55):
as a little black girl in the kind of in
the South and just outside of Atlanta, Lynnwood Park. And
the thing that I always felt when she was telling
me these stories was that I was transported back to
that time that I was living in nineteen forty whatever
it was, or fifty whatever, and I'm experiencing these things
in the moment. And so that's probably the first place

(14:18):
where I really fell in love with history. It was
this kind of personal oral history that I really fell
in love with and then I realized that there were
people I have this book behind me right now from
doctor Panil Joseph. There are people who study this and
then take those oral histories and the larger context and
synthesize it in a way where you can really digest it.

(14:38):
And I just fell in love with that really very
specific thing. And then when I realized that I could
do that, that I could be a part of that process,
it just kind of lit up my world. And I'm
so thankful that I get to do it now because
I think it's really really important to your point. A
place like Atlanta. I was just telling a friend this
last night. Atlanta is special because there is this kind

(15:00):
of baseline level of respect that I think you can
can kind of expect. Maybe people are disrespectful, maybe people
say disrespectful things to you, that's fine, but it isn't
because you're black in many ways, especially if you're around
black people. And there were there I've kind of been.
I grew up with that understanding, and then I moved
and I've lived all across the country and I never

(15:21):
really found another place where I could access that, And
so there is this kind of like baseline level of dignity,
dignity that I think certain people from Atlanta really kind
of walk around with and we're kind of looking for
it everywhere and you never why find that thing again?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
My time living in Atlanta, first time I saw a
black mayor, first time I saw a black chief of police,
first time black people were running the city in a
real way. Attorneys, money, this, that, n doctors, and I
was like, is it? What is this place that I
am in? And I loved everything about it, but it
was also yeah, the first time I realized racism existed

(16:01):
in a very hurtful way.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Interesting because if you go.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Twenty miles out side of atlantaxt I had. I was
a local news reporter. I have photographers who refused to
go to Stone Mountain. They were like, I'm not trying
to die. They grew up there and they were afraid
of certain areas because of what they knew. And I
was like, that's crazy, what do you mean to me?
In my mind, it didn't make any sense. But I mean,
I'm not a black man. One and two I didn't

(16:26):
know the history YEA. So with that being said, I'm
really curious about your journey and I want to get
into specifics, but what was up And I don't want
to say breakthrough moment for you, but when did you
realize the content that you were providing was imperative in

(16:48):
terms of how people responded to it and how and
how it went viral if.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
You were yeah, you know, there are a couple of moments.
I'll say this. I started out on YouTube, like making
videos on YouTube back in two thousand and seven. They
were silly little videos that are all private now. But
I've been kind of like telling these stories and doing
video stuff online for a while, and I put it down.
I went off to film school. I fell in love

(17:16):
with ministry while in college, and so I ended up
in seminary. I became a pastor for some time. So
I had this kind of crazy journey. But what I
would do as a pastor is I'd be up on
stage and I would essentially be synthesizing the things that
I'd kind of taken from the text in scripture and
then communicating it to the congregation. And what I learned

(17:37):
was that you can take these elements and put them
together in a way that really impacts people, that helps
them think about the world differently, think about themselves, and
others in a different way. And so when the pandemic hit,
everything at my church went online, and so I was
back to making videos on the internet, but this time
for my congregation, and I just kind of fell back

(17:58):
in love with that process and the ability to take
images and words and put them together in a really
neat and tight way. And my congregation was really like
enjoying it it and I was getting so much positive
feedback from them because so much of their life had
been disrupted, and so the kind of one consistent thing
was that they knew they'd see a video from me

(18:19):
every single week. And so, you know, of course, we
lived through twenty twenty and the kind of Black Lives
Matter moment, and by January twenty twenty one, I already
started to get this sense that so much of what
we were fighting for and protesting for was like we
were getting away from the point. And I thought a
lot of that had to do with the missing historical context,

(18:42):
like how we got here kind of felt like we
were starting from scratch, But we're not starting from scratch, right,
Like we have so much history that bears down on
this moment to help us kind of get to the
next moment. And that's what I wanted to do. I
wanted to take those ideas and stories and that history
and just share it. And so I started by sharing
videos of me saying here are three black books that

(19:02):
I think you should read on this topic, and it
really resonated. The first video I posted. One of the
first videos I posted got like one hundred and fifty
thousand views, which to me is just like kind of
mind blowing. Yeah, you know, our kind of goalpost changes
over time, and so now one point fifty is like, oh, like,
I don't know, but that's great, Yeah, you know exactly.
But at the moment, at the time, it was like

(19:23):
this kind of mind blowing viral moment for me. And
that's when it really clicked that there was something here,
that there was a real thirst for this kind of
information and knowledge.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
What have you learned, and this might be a series
of questions, what is the one thing that you realize
Black folks don't know about themselves in terms of their history.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's not your fault. I think so much of the
American psyche, the way we think about the world is
looked at through the lens of the individual. So we
think about my own individual f failures and my own
individual accomplishments. You know, only recently are people starting to
admit that, like there's some degree of luck involved in

(20:07):
like the success of the most successful people. Right for
a long time, it was like, hey, I pulled myself
up by my bootstraps. It comes from that old story,
the rugged Dick's story of you know, this guy who
moves to New York to make it big and from
rags to riches. That's a part of the American myth.
And in some ways, I want to I want to
give it credit that it means that we are incredibly ambitious,

(20:28):
and we believe and we have hope and we know
that the future will be better. We always kind of
think that way, which is good in some ways. At
the same time, there are so many forces at play
that are way further upstream from your individual effort that
contribute to outcomes. And while you may be exceptional, carry

(20:48):
because you are, and maybe I am exceptional in some ways.
The reality is that most Americans exist somewhere in the middle.
And I think that's true for most Black people in
those conditions that we are, that we are raised in,
that we come up in those conditions matter and for
so many Black people, the conditions that we were like
brought into, that we exist in are are designed to

(21:11):
see us fail. And so I think if you can
think about some of those larger trends and some of
those larger elements, we can target our solutions to those
problems way more effectively. And I also think we can
walk around with a with a greater deal of dignity
and respect and belief in ourselves for what we've already overcome.
I encounter so many Black people who just have like

(21:34):
low racial self esteem, and it breaks my mind.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
As low racial self esteem.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
What I what I mean by that is that that
we take a low view of who we are. I'm
so thankful for the Black Lives Matter movement. I'm thankful
for movies like Roots, which kind of like redeemed this
idea of resilience in the enslaved individual. I'm so thankful
for the for the for the media that helps Black
people feel feel good about themselves, because there's so much

(22:02):
in this world designed to make us feel bad about ourselves.
And so that's what I mean when I say low
racial self esteem. It's this idea that we don't believe
that Black people are capable precisely because in so many
ways we've been given these narratives and these examples and
the things that they show in the news tell us
that we are less than. But the history of our

(22:22):
people is a history of resilience and excellence despite all
that we've been through.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
So that is where for me, where the work is
the history. I think when you talk about us not
understanding who we are in terms of how we view
ourselves as because we don't know our history, myself included,
they're just things I just don't know. I could scroll
through your page and be like, I didn't know that,
I didn't know that, I don't know. There's so much
that I didn't know. And I wish the same way

(22:51):
that you said your grandmother told you stories. I wish
my grandmother grew up telling my mom those stories, and
then my mom could tell my mother and my father
could tell me those stories nowadays. And this is you
have to be curious, and I just I just I'm
blessed that I'm curious and I'm about different things, and
I'm like, so tell me why I don't understand why.
I think that is my my superpower. But when I

(23:14):
watch you go to the likes of a Republican National Convention.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
It didn't.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
And you sit and you talk with these black Republicans,
and we have to we have to highlight some of
these moments on the podcast. You sit and you talk
to these people, and it's clear, at least to me,
they don't really understand why that they are Republican. They
think they do, and they give you what we know

(23:41):
that is out in the Zeigeist. Well, you know, Republicans
used to be all black. You know, Democrats were racists
when they first start. They give you all of these
these generic sayings that we have heard about, but we
don't really know why when you went to the RNC,
because I went to the DNC and I loved it.
But when you went to the RC, God bless you
because that is that's God's work right there. That is

(24:04):
something that only Jesus put on your heart.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Amen, Amen, because I was ready to fight. And that's
the problem. We're too emotional as a people because it's
so serious and it means.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
So much, and I'm like, I am mad.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, So talk to.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Me about what are the reasons, just the reasons that
black Republicans exist. From the research that you've been able
to do. From those you've been able to talk to,
what are their reasonings for being in the Republican Party
today right now supporting Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's such a good question. It's literally the question that
I set out to answer last summer summers. Black Conservatives
are everywhere. That's why I'm here to show my support
as a black man. But Trump polsters can't get enough
of them.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
The historic levels of support the Republicans are getting from
black folk under Trump.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Donald Trump is cozying up to them. The RNC was
full of President Trump.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
We have the greatest economy in all lifetime.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
America is not a racist country.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
Can you imagine President Donald Trump coming to a city
and calling a pastor like me.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
You've probably heard a lot of people talking about black Republicans,
but I spent all of the R and C talking
to black Republicans. So it is with being a black Conservative.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
I equate it to being gay back in the fifties
our sixties.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
You didn't come off the closet then.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
And so you look at the people who are really
saying that about Trump.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
It's not no up to the negroes, it's negroes out the.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Real hood and that's one reason why I'm pro Trump
and I'm a conservative, is because I truly believe in
the individualistic approach to the problems that we see within
the black community or in America as a whole.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Black Republicans specifically are some of the most disliked and
unpopular political figures within the black community for a reason,
reason reason. There were all of these headlines saying that
blackeople are going for Trump at a higher rate, and
they turned out to be right, maybe not to the
degree that they were right. You look at the data.
Trump gained in every single demographic among people of color,

(26:11):
gained with black women, gained with black men, And that
was notable to me, And it was notable. It was
kind of like becoming obvious as I was kind of
out talking to people. I talked to people in Atlanta,
I was as you mentioned the RNC, I talk to
people in New York, all across the country. And the
thing that I feel like it's important to acknowledge here, Carrie,
is that black people are if you were to really

(26:33):
if you were to take one singular issue out of
the American politics, if you were to take out racism,
like let's say that racism wasn't a political issue. Let's
say everybody was equally against racism. Black people would be
a third independent, a third conservative, a third liberal. I

(26:54):
think we've all very naturally across.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Wait, let's just hold for a moment. I do to
say you are absolutely right. I hate that people assume
because we're black, we're Democrats. But because we're one of
a few countries that gives you that give you only
two really viable options, you go for the lesser of
two evils. Yea, and the lesser of two evils for
many black people would be the Democratic Party. But we
are so conservative. We are so some of us are

(27:18):
so liberal. We don't there is We're not a monolith
the way I could be extremely liberal on some issues
and then very conservative on other issues.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I don't want to dig into that. I want to
know which ones you're very conservative on because I'm always curious, Like,
I don't know if we have time for that.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Later, Yes we do, we yes, yes, yes, we get
after you.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
So so so you found out like if racism wasn't
an issue, we'd be one third this one or that
one third whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, it's okay, So let let's get I want to.
I want to talk at least for a moment about
the data the research that HIT Strategies did. My good
friends over at HIT Strategies, they they pulled black people
around their political ideologies and political leanings, and one of
the things that they found was that across the spectrum, yes,
there are these different factions, these ways that black people

(28:06):
are thinking about politics, but for those who identify with
the Republican Party the most, race and racism are actually
lowest on their priority list. They don't care as much
about that. So that's that's part of it that's important
to say of a party. It is actually very fascinating
that that there are a group of black people in
this country, obviously a minority, that don't see the forces

(28:30):
of racism at work in the black community, on individuals whatever.
They don't see that as a real problem, and that
is probably the biggest gateway into today's Republican Party for
black people. And so when I talk to them, let's
let's let's get some of those those stories in here.
When I talk to them, they talk about economic issues,

(28:51):
they talk about abortion issues, So that's kind of a
socially conservative kind of issue that they have. There of
course that means that they're also issue with with the
LGBTQ movement. A lot of times it is specifically the
rise of trans visibility. I won't say that there are
more trans people, they are just more visible trans people today,

(29:13):
and so they take issue with this and they see
that as this kind of negative force in the country.
And when I push on those things like well, what
difference does it make if there are gay people getting
married or they're trans people going through their own individual things,
like what difference does it mean? There are very rarely
satisfying answers for me. That's my opinion.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
They's the answer. What's the overall sentiment?

Speaker 2 (29:38):
A lot of times it's that it's being pushed on
the kids, And I think that I think that's insane.
Can I just be honest, I think that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Why? Why is that crazy?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I think it's crazy because visibility. I grew up I
mean back to Atlanta. I grew up in Atlanta in
the nineties and two thousands, when there was a great
deal of gay visibility in the city. Everyone And it's
finily like saying like Atlanta's like the gay, black gay mecca,
you know, in the nineties, in the two thousands. I
have a very close cousin who unfortunately passed away, but

(30:09):
I grew up with a cousin who was trans or
is trans, and I have plenty of gay I'm not gay.
I'm around them in like a really intimate, you know,
close relational way. This is my family, these are my friends.
And I'm not gay because I wasn't. I'm not gay
because I'm not gay. I don't And so I don't

(30:29):
think that seeing more trade people means that I'm going
to suddenly switch into being a trans person. And so
I think the idea of being pushed on is manufactured.
It's really just the visibility that they have an issue with.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
It's the visibility.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So when when trans people existed and it wasn't as
as known or as around the corner or social media
or holiday, it was fine because it was done behind
closed doors. But now that it's out in public, do
you find that really bothers people on the Republican side,
especially the blacks.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Who who are who are are joining the party.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah? Yeah, and you see, and you see I mean
back to your point about the conservatism of black people.
You know, black people are still the most churched demographic.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
That's what I was going to say. We are churchy,
We see churchy folks.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
You know, there are ideas in many churches around the
role that women are supposed to play, queer issues, right
like whether or not people should or shouldn't be gay,
whatever that might mean. There are all of these ideas,
these ecclesial and the theological and missiological ideas, and it's

(31:40):
worth saying that some of those things are creating pathways
for black folks specifically to be kind of ushered into
the Republican Party, conservatism and Republicanism specifically.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Wow, okay, so you're so let me just say from
the research you've done and what you think you've been
able to ascertain that like the church aspect, the conservative aspect,
churchy black folks, that like, yes, I am a Republican.
So let's get into my grandmother. I have said on
the show, and I have said on every show CNN here,
my grandmother voted for Donald Trump. She's ninety five years old.

(32:16):
FI se as can be mine's mostly there. I would
say if I said to say, because you know, because
you know, you lose a little, if I'd give her
eighty five percent, you know, mostly good days, mostly good days,
but smart enough to tell me most recently, she made
a mistake. We've heard that before. What are we supposed
to hold on that mistake with? Told me to make

(32:38):
sure I save my money because with this man now
in charge, she can see that bad times are coming.
She then gave me a list of things to do
because she said, I've been here before, and I know
it's going to be tight, so you just pay attention
to ABC and D. My next question, naturally, was like, well,
why would you vote for him and her philosophy while

(33:02):
not you know, she's not going to be as eloquent
and explain it all to me and give me the
historical perspective. But she was just like, I churchy, Kamla
wore too many pants her pants suit, Like, wow, he's
just too bossy.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
What have you seen me?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Who you gave right to this? She didn't birth me,
but you raised me. Could you say that about this
woman who I in many ways align with because of
who Kamala Harris is and what she's been through and
her struggle and trying to figure it out. She's like, yeah,
but you know you don't need to be doing all that.

(33:38):
You don't need to live in New York and in
la you don't need to. It's a very simple mind
your business mindset, go to church, come home, work, have
some kids, have a family, mind your business.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
But that still wasn't.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Enough for me because Karsen, she was the first in
many ways in my family to do so many things.
She was married to a man who was abusive, she
left him. Women didn't do that back then, that's right.
She raised two kids on her own. Women didn't do
that back then. They went and got married again and
again and again. Because the mrs was more important than independence.

(34:15):
She then was the first person in our family to
travel outside the country. She was like, you know, I
deserve I wanted to be a Hollywood movie star. It
never happened, But what I'm going to start doing is
traveling around the world. Like some of the favorite films
that she used to watch that she wanted to actually
go and visit a London or a Paris, and she'd
come back with this dollars, you know, their version of

(34:37):
their money, whether it was the Euro.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Or or whatever it was.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
She would come back and say, look, and she would
explain her travels to us, and it was really a
beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
And as she's.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Sitting here telling me this, I'm like, you're so independent,
You so are aligned with Kamala, You're so aligned with
women today who are saying, look, yes and yeah, I
want that, But if I don't, I'm gonna have to
go make it on my own. I'm not going to
be in the circumstances that life says I should have.
So why in the world do you still feel this way?
And what I have come to learn is that we

(35:10):
and I don't want to use the word hypocritical, but
we are such a complicated people. I can tell you
that I don't think transgender athletes should be in high school.
And the reason why I think that is because there's
not enough research. There isn't enough money, and there isn't
any testing done to make sure that there is parody

(35:33):
in the sense that most recently in California, in Clovis,
there was a transgender track and field athlete and she
wanted to run and there were a lot of parents protesting.
And I didn't like that they were protesting her because
she was a child. But what I understood was is
this fair. I know that this person takes hormones, I

(35:56):
know the science is here that says that she is
probably the same as my daughter, but we really don't
know enough because high school. High schools don't give you
that budget to go and do what you would do
on a collegiate level, or what you would do on
an Olympic level or in a professional level. I have
no problem on all of these other levels where testing
is done and people are making sure that your hormones
are equal and there's no unfair advantage, and that you're

(36:18):
competing the same way that everybody's competing next to you.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I have no problem with that.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
But then I talked to a really good friend of mine,
and she has a daughter in high school, and she said,
if I didn't have a daughter playing sports in high school,
I would not believe the way I believe. But I
truly believe it shouldn't be done in high school. I
watch my daughters compete. I watch them lose when they're
going up against girls who are better than them and
they are the best, and I watch them lose, and
I see how hard it is for them. And if
someone seemingly has an unfair advantage, I am going to

(36:46):
take issue with that. I know it sounds shocking, and
scary and uncomfortable to say, but that's what I believe,
and it makes people uncomfortable. But I know at the
same time, I have no problem with gender affirming care.
I have no problem with trans people living their own lives.
They're not bothering me. Do you do whatever you want

(37:07):
to do? And you know, here comes the my best
friends are gay, you know what I mean? Like my
best friends are white? No, my best friends are black.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
No.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I have no problem with any of that.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah. I want to respond to it because I hear
you and I and I don't think it's an insane thing.
I actually think we need way more of these kinds
of conversations, you know. And maybe we should bring a
trans person into the conversation.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I would love that.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, that'd be amazing. And I think the point that
you make is well taken that we might not know.
We might not I don't think we do information and
I don't think we do, you know. But the chilling
effect of this conversation nationally is that it has become
politicized to even study this. It's become politicized and frowned

(37:53):
upon to even look into it to get that critical information,
that data that we need to be able to understand
it better the part of the way I think about it.
And to be fair, I don't have a high school athlete.
I don't have someone who's you know, a child that's
competing or anything like that, and so and so I
come to this conversation with a great deal of humility.
But but what I will say is that the number

(38:17):
of trans people just in general is so low that
it feels like this conversation is way larger than it
should be, right.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Okay, Garrison, Garrison. I say this all the time. I'm
seeing it, and this isn't an issue. This isn't an
issue exactly because it's a non issue. But if people
ask you what do you feel, I would say there
are some some things that I'm Probably people would say
I'm conservative on sure, government programs. I'm like, okay, some
of them, but not all of them. Like I because

(38:50):
the way my taxes work so and because because sometimes
I know they're being abused and people are taking advantage
of the system.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
I don't think you have to get rid of you
got to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
But yes, I am about reform, not necessarily a doge reform,
but I'm about reform and making it better.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
But that is me.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
These are my individual rights. It goes back to your
initial assertion that we are all not one thing. We
are a third this, and we're a third that. And
if we had to go through individual items or issues
that decide how we vote, morality, you name it, guess
what we would all be all over the place. We
wouldn't be in the Democratic Party, which is why I

(39:30):
wish there wasn't a Democratic Party. But to your point,
trans athletes is not an issue at all. There are
five hundred thousand, I believe, of five hundred thousand college athletes,
how many are transgender?

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Maybe a dozen, Yeah, maybe a dozen.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
It's not even it's not even a real issue. And
so I agree with you it has become politicized. But
when things are politicized, we're afraid to talk about it.
And I don't think what I said was offensive, and
I don't think that I am saying I don't want
to be around transgender people and they should not compete.
But the way we hear information today forces us to

(40:08):
say this person took this side when there's just so
much nuance in the conversation.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. It's
interesting to me that that I think, you know, we
get pulled into these kind of traps in so many ways, right,
Like you you think about even the way that you know,
the issue of abortion is kind of talked about, and
even you know, to your point about social welfare and

(40:33):
these government assistance programs and the way that they are
constantly politicized by highlighting kind of the extreme cases like
perhaps there are, no doubt people who are taking advantage
of so many things, but you know what, there are
also corporations that are taking advantage of social were for
welfare programs.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
To be right, I'm talking all across the board.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I'm not just talking about I'm talking across the yes,
from top to bottom.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yes, yeah, And so I guess what I'm trying to
kind of get at here is to say that I would,
you know, it would be unfortunate in the world that
I want to live in where we are making rules
based on these kind of far away exceptions and in
so many ways. I think this stuff comes back to
this idea of a multi racial, diverse democracy. And you know,

(41:19):
multiracial democracy is one where black people, white people, Latino
people Whoever, as long as you are an eligible citizen,
you are able to participate and have your voice heard
in this country. But I also think about, you know,
the ways in which you know, women are often pushed
outside of the frame, or the ways that queer people
are pushed outside of the frame. And I just want

(41:40):
to live in a country where everyone has a place
and everyone can contribute to the to the conversation in
an equal way, and people aren't being relegated and pushed
outside because they are different. And I actually feel like
in so many ways we're getting away from that. As
a baseline, I think that folks really want their group

(42:02):
or maybe even just themselves, to have a voice. But
part of what made the civil rights movement so special
in the nineteen forties, fifties, and sixties was this idea
of coalition building where you have, you know, on the
legal front, you know on the racial front, on the
gender front, you have so many people coming together on

(42:25):
the immigrant status front. You have all of these groups
coming together under the same banner that rights people should
have them. At a baseline, I think people should have rights,
and they're able to come together on that particular point
and move the needle in a really powerful way by
working together. And I think so much of the Right
Wings project is to get us to think extremely individually.

(42:49):
So that's the thing that they're wanting for us to do,
is to think so singularly about ourselves that we are
unable to see the power in thinking about each other.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Well, the times were different, right, there were things that
we just didn't have. The civil rights movement was to
give to have these people treat us civilly.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
We didn't know.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Our humanity did not exist and it still doesn't in
many ways. And I'm not talking about us as black people,
but every marginalized group, their humanity did not exist, and
so they everyone had to come together because they did
want to be recognized as a human being first and
then everything else after that.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
So they were fighting for something that was really tangible
and needed. So I agree with you. So now here
we are and we think we've made it.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
A lot of people have this complacency, and the Republican Party,
to your point, has made it feel like they're taking
something from you.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
You are being.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Hurt, and the only reason why people respond to that
is because they feel that they are better I do.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
What is this the best quote? And I can't.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
And I don't know if it was Roosevelt who said it,
but it was something to the effect. And maybe you know,
a man will give his last dime, We'll spend all
of his money to make sure that he feels like
he's better in the next I e. The black man,
the immigrant, the whomever, the woman. I will do whatever
it takes so people know that I am higher. There's

(44:18):
a hierarchy that this country was built on, and it's
a hierarchy that they want to put in play. I
would love to live in a world where, to your point,
where we all saw each other for who we are.
But I don't think where we are today is I
don't know if that's feasible. And what I mean by
that garrison is that we are all we as a culture,

(44:40):
we're so selfish.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, we're so selfish. We're all about us.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
You're right, But I want to kind of point to
two times, kind of quickly. I think you make this
really good point that we were fighting, or they were
fighting our ancestors. I spend so much time reading this
stuff that I always.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
It's still us, it's in us, it's right, and our
spirit of us. Yes, yes, but.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
They were fighting. You're You're totally right. They're famed for
some for some very basic things like like please let
me walk on the sidewalk.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, please let me eat here in this restaurant?

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Can I drink out of this water fountains? Can I
go to that bathroom?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Exactly? Like It's incredibly basic, And I think that is
the silver lining. In so many ways, things were so
bad that boycotting the buses was just like, yeah, I'm
gonna not go face these social indignities of being forced
to the back or having to stand up when some
white boy walks in onto the bus, and so like
that that part of it made it in some ways easier,

(45:39):
I think, to get on board with the movement for progress,
and I think a silver lining in this time when
you see millions of people currently set to lose healthcare coverage,
that will be millions more people who are more passionate
than ever before about universalizing healthcare. That will represent millions

(46:01):
of people who are like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait,
this is not working. The way that we're trying to
do this and the way that we've can talk to
these things are being talked about, it isn't working, and
so that kind of reminds me of the sixties, but
it also reminds me of twenty twenty. I think the
Black Lives Matter kind of moment in twenty twenty is sharpened,
it's made that much more effective by this collective sense

(46:25):
that we'd all kind of been just jarred into that, like, wait,
there's a virus that's killing people and it could get me,
and I could have it and I could give it
to someone I love. Like that kind of it shook
us out of this individual kind of way of thinking.
And there are people who are shaking very hard to
get back into it right, who are working incredibly hard
to make sure that you didn't wear a mask and

(46:45):
that you didn't think about your neighbor. But for millions
of people around the globe, there was this awakening, this
moment of awareness. And a lot of that awakening existed
beyond just there, you know, racial justice, It existed in
healthcare and all these but it got funneled into this moment.
When people saw George Floyd with a knee on his neck,
people like, wait, that's wrong, and we've got to do

(47:07):
something about it. And I think that collected that we
idea is something that I anticipate will come back as
things get tighter, Like your grandmother is kind of getting
at us. Things get tighter, sure, you know what I mean,
there's less margin. People are going to start thinking about, like,
how do we work together to make this play better?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
You know, Garrison, I what we're dealing with right now,
I think is what it's supposed to be. History always
repeats itself, and I think that we have to get
down to the basics. Right what we just talked about,
what our ancestors were fighting for, the basics. The basics
now are different. Whether it be universal health care, whether
it be gender affirming rights, whether it be immigration, whatever
it is, we are all going to have to get

(47:48):
down to the basics. And I believe America gets what
it deserves. And that's not a bad thing. I just
believe America gets what it deserves. And so if this
is what America wants, this is what America has until
it can be changed. Now, when you are dealing with
these when you're talking to these Republicans, Black Republicans more specifically,
I must admit this is my blind side. I love

(48:11):
you for doing it. I'm not emotionally mature enough to
have those conversations. I'm not and I want to be.
That's why I brought you on. And I wonder when
approaching someone who you think should be aware of obvious
racism in a party, in a political party, when you say,
that's really low on their list of why I am

(48:35):
or why I'm upset what's going on in the world.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
I rarely meet, rarely meet.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Black people who put racism at the bottom of the
total pole. Yeah, why do you think that is? What
is that ideology?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
You know, it's complex, it's complicated, and I don't you know,
I don't know if there's any one thing. I think
part of it is a defense mechanism if I could
just like give grace to it. I think to your
point about like talking to these people across differences, part
of what I try to do is to really listen
and actually to listen with good faith, to say, like
I'm assuming this the probably is I really want to

(49:12):
assume that you are coming from a place of good
faith and that you mean what you say, and that
you're doing it for the good read for the right reasons,
like you just want a better future for your kids
and all this stuff, and like I'm just gonna assume
that coming into the conversation. And so when I'm listening
to these people, and I think there is a degree
to which I've kind of become aware of these kind
of defense mechanisms to some of this stuff exist. As Like,

(49:34):
I think about how in so many instances I've noticed
this where black Republicans are black maga. They're the ones
who are gonna wear the shirt that says I stand
with Donald Trump, and they're gonna have the hat on.
And I look at that and like, on the one hand,
you could say, like, y'all are shucking and giving okay,
that could be a response, But on the other hand,

(49:55):
there is something, there is a defense mechanism in there.
It kind of reminds me of how sometimes people will
put like that thin blue line sticker on their car
to indicate to the police that I support the police.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
I didn't know that. Is that a thing you can?

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, people do that and it'll insulate you a little bit,
I think from kind of the most vicious elements of
perhaps police brutality or them being maybe more on guard.
And I think similarly for people who especially operate in
these white spaces that had and those kind of like
emblems are almost a defense, like they set up a
little bit of a barrier between them and the anti

(50:32):
blackness or racism that they are very likely to encounter. Otherwise,
it marks them as a safe person and it kind
of invites them into a community. And so I think
that's a part of it. I think a part of
it is that there is a fraternity. There is a
community of people who support Donald Trump, and they see
themselves as the outsiders and as the outcasts and misunderstood,

(50:53):
but amongst each other, they are part of something together
in many ways, it is a cult, and so they
are a part of the call sounds like, and so
I kind of I think that's a part of it
for sure. But then there are also issues. There are
issues that they care about, and so you got to
acknowledge the issues as well.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
When you left the rn C, and there was one
moment and you guys should definitely follow Garrison Hayesen and
check out his YouTube also Instagram. But when you left
the rn C, there was a moment prior to you
leaving where the black Republican Republicans were gathering and it
was you said, it was a joyous event and it
just so happens that Donald Trump's motorcade drove by, and

(51:37):
they were under the impression there was a bit of
a frenzy for a few moments in which they thought
Donald Trump was coming to say hi to them, because
they are in that special group. They are accepted. They
are one of his if you will, cult members. Not
necessarily cold, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
And then what happened, and he just drove by, and
there was palpable disappointment in the room. I encourage people
to go watch the video. I think the title is
I spent a week with Black Republicans. There was some
very very real disappointment in that moment, and and I

(52:16):
think in so many ways it was emblematic of the
larger issue. We're now a year or so later, and there,
you know, I posted this on threads to the other
day that I'm amazed at how little airtime Black Republicans
have gotten in the last six months of this presidency.
I mean, they were so central. It really felt like

(52:37):
every day you'd see Representative Byron Donald's or you'd see
Tim Senator Tim Scott. Oh, you see all these people
out there really pushing, you know, for go support Trump
and a year later. Some of those people I've literally
not seen at all at all. Like I don't know
where Senator Timscott is. I have no idea where the

(52:57):
man is, and maybe I should google him, but it
seems as though his media, you know, it's just way down.
I say that to say that in the moment, it
felt like they were the center of the world. I
met this event for Black Republicans at the r n C,
and it's this really great event, and it felt like
Trump was coming there, but in reality he was just

(53:18):
passing by. It feels like this real kind of almost
a parable.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Let's sit with that for a moment.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah, they you just said they thought Trump was coming
to visit them and be there and relate and commune
with them, but he was just passing by. Where's Tim Scott?
Where are these Black Republicans that you that you had
on stage with you at the r n C. You
were just passing by. You were just in translation using them.

(53:48):
I needed you for the moment. Thank you appreciate it.
That is powerful, I.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Think it is. There's this this this book you know,
called The Loneliness of the Black Republican, and it is
about the history of black people trying to just trying
to find a place in American politics. And I think
that that there's a we're living in a moment right

(54:15):
now where black people are incredibly frustrated with the Democratic
Party and and so in that frustration has also existed
with the Republican Party. There's a part in that book
where Jackie Robinson and hey, we're bringing it back to
sports Baby, where Jackie Robinson is one of the kind

(54:36):
of most he's the most famous Black Republican in the
country at the time. He's this incredibly conservative person. He
won't call Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali because he doesn't really
believe in all that job, right, Like that's kind of
his vibe. And yet Barry Goldwater, who is this real
racist and really a precursor in so many ways to

(54:57):
what we see in Donald Trump, he was just out
there calling for segregation and being a racist. And Jackie Robinson,
who is the Republican of Republicans among black people and
emissary calling black people back into the Republican Party, he
stands up and says, I can't get on board with this.

(55:19):
There's this moment where he's like, I'm just I can't
do this, and I've been waiting for that moment among
some of the more prominent black Republicans where they stand
up and just say, Okay, this DEI stuff like the
fact that you are leveraging this to take away access
for my community. I'm waiting for them to stand up
just say I can't do that. That's a bridge too

(55:40):
far from me. Even the way that the ICE agents
and even the National Guard have been deployed, and the
just the rhetoric in general. You know, I've been waiting
for that moment and is yet to come. And I
think in many ways it is because American politics have
really moved so far away from integrity and more into tribalism.

(56:01):
You know, Jackie Robinson had a moral compass that led
him for the majority of his life to vote for
and support Republicans. That's his business. But he also had
a moral compass that would not allow him to stand
idly by while racist bigots were gaining political power in
his name. And so I think I think we're we're

(56:22):
kind of we've moved away from that in so many ways.
And I look at some of the I won't you know,
mention specific candidates or or specific individuals, but I look
at some of the voices, the younger voices especially, who
are really bringing back this moral courage to stand against
the things that they stand against. And if you accept that,
you accept that. If you reject it, that's your business

(56:43):
as well. But I believe this thing and I'm going
to stand up for it, and so that's encouraging me.
But I'm still I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting, Carrie,
I'm still waiting.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I'm curious if you can for our listeners, can you
describe the history of the Republican Party from its inception.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
And the history of the Democratic Party.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
I think it's important because I don't know if many
people understand the ebb and flow of the parties and
how they have. What happens is these parties, and we
can see this in real time with the Republican Party,
they transform at one point as a you know, in
my recent memory, when I was old enough to really
pay attention, the Democratic Party was the party of the

(57:30):
working class and we were they were I want to
say we, because I'm a registered independent, but it was
where you would go if you wanted to pull yourself
up by the bootstraps and do that hard work you
talked about and the Republicans were always the rich party,
not that that's changed, but there is a marketing turn
and how we describe it now. So historically speaking, what

(57:53):
was the Republican Party? Did it consist of black people?
Were they for slavery? Were they against slavery?

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Like to know how these black people could be drawn
into Trump's political orbits. So I talked to Pastor Lorenzo Sewel.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Yeah, so anyone that wants to come to church, they
able to come. So when President Trump called, I thought
about it like you calling me as Hey, a pastor,
I want to invite a friend to church who has
thirty four felonies. Hey pastor, I want to invite a
friends to church who is a womanizer. Hey pastor, I
want to invite a friend to church who could be
a racist.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
He's the lead pastor at a black church in Detroit
that Trump visited earlier this year. He was also a
featured speaker at the RNC.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
All my friends back in Detroit, who are Democrats?

Speaker 2 (58:35):
I'm want to ask you just one simple question.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
You can't deny the power of God on this man's life.
You can't deny that God protected him.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Could it be that.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Jesus Christ preserved him for such a time.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Is this could it be? Why should black people support
the Republican ticket and Donald Trump specifically? That's a good question.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
You know what I would say to any black person
is this specifically about the Republican platform, I would say, look,
do your research, right, I would say, look back to
one hundred and seventy years ago in this state where
a group of patriots stood up and they started that
Grand Old Party to stop the explanchion of slavery. If
a black person said, well, pastor Donald Trump's racist, the
Republican Party is racist, Well, let's play that theme out

(59:21):
throughout history. Let's look at who was the party of slavery.
Who was the party of Jim Crow, Right, who's the
party of you know the slave codes? Well, well, those
are Democrats. Let's have that conversation. And when you look
at when the Senate was integrated, those were black Republicans.
When we look at our Frederick Douglass black Republican. So

(59:43):
that's on the political side.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
I won't pretend to be a historian here. I just
like to read the things, and so I would encourage
you to read as well. You know, the Loneliness of
the Black Republican by Leah Wright Rock here is a
really good one. I think you know. There are number
of book I love tannahse Codes Eight Years in Power
Lost book on that topic. And so there's some history

(01:00:07):
here in short, though the kind of Layman's version as
a late historian in my own right, I guess, I
don't know. I don't know if that can't even call
us that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Don't worry like if you like, if you get it wrong,
I'm gonna be like he got it wrong on I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Kidding rect it. What I will say is that you know,
there was certainly a time where the Republican Party, obviously
was the Party of Lincoln. That party fought for emancipation
in its own way, not necessarily because they were pro

(01:00:38):
black right, but for their own political kind of you
know reasons. They they fought for slave, for the end
of slavery. A good book for that is W. E. B.
Dubois's Black Reconstruction, which is a really really good book,
very necessary.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Okay, that's so so sixteen nineteen too, Like she gets
so amazing. Okay, I have it somewhere, I know you right, Yeah,
for going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Okay, all that said, you know, obviously there are these
kind of pro and anti and so this the Southern
Democrats really are the anti abolition party, and like explicitly right,
And so as black people gain access to participation in democracy,
the natural home for black voters in the North and

(01:01:26):
in parts of the South where this was allowed, especially
during reconstruction, the natural home is the Republican Party. And
so you see all of the first governors or in Congress,
people and representatives in state, local officials, all those people
identified as Republicans. And this was true for most of
the eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds. But as

(01:01:47):
the civil rights movement begins to grow in the early
nineteen hundreds, black people are still looking for a home.
And to remind you, the Republican Party was never pro black.
We know that Abraham Lincoln did not believe that black
people were equal with white people. He said so explicitly.
And so in this moment of real tension, the kind

(01:02:09):
of inflection point is that black people come back from
the war World War one, World War two especially, and
they're like, yo, I fought for this country. I deserve
my rights. Who's going to help me fight for this?
And there were decades where that was pretty unclear. But
by the time you get to the fifties where there's
a fight for education access and obviously the civil rights

(01:02:32):
movement which comes in to focus in the nineteen sixties,
as we understand it, there becomes this kind of push
and pull in JFK ultimately becomes an ally to the
Kings around this issue, and that is in many ways
how black people started to flood into the Democratic Party.
Now again, doctor Leo right Roger really digs into the

(01:02:54):
specifics of this in her book about Black Republicans, but
that is kind of those are the larger con tours.
There is this kind of push and pull around who's
going to be on our side, and for a time
that looked like Republicans, and after a while that became
very clear that the Republicans were against it and the
Democrats were for it. And the Republicans saw an opportunity
what we know as a Southern strategy after the Civil

(01:03:16):
Rights movement, where they said, if we could make ourselves
more appealing to the Southern Democrats, we will be able
to control the South. And so their Southern strategy is
to appeal to the right white racists in the South,
and that's how we get the modern day Republican Party
is that decision with Lee Atwater in the late nineteen
sixties and seventies.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I think that we have a version of that story.
I think a lot of people who've done any and
not a lot of people, but I think a lot
of people who have platforms have a version of why
that is. But you say something, and you've said it
several times, and I think this is something we should explore.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Black people are still looking for a home.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Today then and now you're still looking for a home.
There is not there doesn't feel it doesn't feel like
in terms of a political party that speaks to our spirit.
And maybe it's because one political party can't do that,
and all black people don't belong to one political party.

(01:04:18):
Maybe we should be spread out, as you said, one
third this, one third that, and would.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
That be okay culturally? I'm curious in your mind what
that would look like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
I'll say this, I don't think that I don't you know,
do what you want to do for people. But what
I will say is, so long as the Republican Party
is still playing by the Southern strategy playbook of appealing
to racists as a way to build political power. So
long as that's happening, I do not think that black

(01:04:48):
people in any significant sense will ever align with that party.
I think, you know, we to get a little newsy.
Elon Musk is starting the America Party right, kind of
potentially viable third party. But so long as Elon Musk
is doing what appeared to be Nazi salutes and he's

(01:05:10):
amplifying the voices of bigots on his platform, black people
won't feel safe there. They won't feel there, And so
in so many ways, we're between a rock and a
hard place. We are in this really kind of difficult tension,
and I'm hopeful that people will listen to that tension.

(01:05:30):
I think that black political power. You know, I did
a radio show around this I call it called it Red,
Black and Blue. And I called it that because I
wanted to put black people at the center of the
kind of political story in America. And I do think
that there is a need for someone. I don't know
who it will be, but there needs to be someone
who will actually take that seriously. In the South. Let

(01:05:52):
me just make the case for taking black people seriously
as a political force. Most black people live in the South.
Yet black people's political will is not very well realized
down here, precisely because Republicans have taken very seriously the
idea that if they can disenfranchise and jerry mander and

(01:06:13):
kind of like they're constantly being sued for getting rid
of black majority districts and breaking these things up, if
they can do that, they can continue to win. And
it feels to me that Democrats have not taken seriously
that there are so many black people in Mississippi and
Alabama and Georgia and Tennessee that are ready to go

(01:06:34):
out and vote so long as you represent their interests.
And so I'm hopeful that at some point in the
near future, hopefully sooner than later, our political interests will
be taken seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
I agree with you, and I don't know. I don't
know what that is. I don't know what the malaise is.
I don't know what the fear is. We are now
and I'm watching this in real time. The current president
and his administration has made it ingue to push the limits,
to remove the political conversation to and what I mean

(01:07:09):
by remove the political conversation, it's the way he talks.
It's very it's not as if I am in an
office of authority. There is this behind the scenes, this
fourth wall that we are looking at, and it's very
real and authentic, and for some reason people are fascinated.
I've never seen the fascination with the president that I

(01:07:30):
see with Donald Trump. I've seen it with I've seen
it with Barack who you just recently interviewed. I've also
seen it with President Clinton.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
But this is different.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
There is a fascination, maybe even a respect that I
can't understand. I can't understand why it's okay for him
to not be well versed. I can't understand why he
doesn't know more than a sixth grader. I can't understand
why he can go on television and lie and we

(01:08:00):
know he's lying, right, but there is this compliance and
agreement that makes it seem like this lie is okay.
I use this example. Do you know Bill Aikman Ackman?

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
You know that I don't know him personally, but I
know who he is, so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
He most recently, but I think purchase his way into
a tennis tournament. A challenger is what they call it.
It's an amateur tournament, but it's at the Hall of
Fame and it's in Rhode Island, and he played doubles
with a tennis pro named Jack Sock, who is somewhat retired,
semi retired.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
He hasn't played until twenty twenty three. This tour that he.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Played in, this tournament that he played in is for
people who really truly want to play tennis, who are
a journeyman in tennis, because that's a tough sport. It's expensive,
you travel all the time, you need to coach, you
need to spend money to get to the actual place
to play, and it's an international sport. So they have
these things called challengers, and they give out wild cards

(01:08:59):
to people who are trying to get their rankings back
up or two up and comers who are good, and
it's done at this this particular time tournament. They have
a ton but this particular tournament is called the Hall
of Fame, and it is exactly that it's for the greats.
And so somehow, some way, this sixty year old man
gets a wild card into the tournament so he can

(01:09:19):
live out his full dream. By way of background. By
way of background, he's bankrolling the PTPA, which is the
Professional Tennis Players Association he's helping bankroll that, help erase
twenty six million dollars to get that going. So he
has made friends with all of the greats, and he's
casually friendly with them, and then all of a sudden
he decides, at fifty nine, sixty years old, that he

(01:09:40):
wants to play in a real tennis tournament. Now, you
would think, because it's sports, says hey, sir, this isn't
for amateur. This is you're not even you're sixty, You're
not even this is not even real. This is not
even a real thing. And when he played those two sets,
it was so uncomfortable to watch this man barely get
the ball across the net. But what that, to me
says is that we are living in a country where

(01:10:03):
it's okay to push the limits and see who's going
to say what, because no one is saying anything. If
I have money, if I have power, if I have access,
which has always been the case, but now I'm just
doing it so blatantly. And that's what I believe this
administration has allowed to happen. If you see this as
an example, why not me. If this man can get
on TV and ask for a plane for another country,

(01:10:28):
if I if I could, if I could sit in
your office and be Benjamin NETANYAHUU and hand you a
letter for a Nobel Peace Prize nomination because you deserve
it for what I don't know why. Because he solved,
He solved, there's a world peace in Africa. Now, No,
there's not, like come on, but there is something about
this fascination that I can't quite understand. And I feel

(01:10:52):
like while we are looking for a home as a
people that they're really truly is no place for us
that makes sense right now, And I don't know why
there's a silence around it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
That's my question to you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
This is this is what I'll say, Carrie. First of all,
like I'm thankful for platforms like this where we're having
these conversations and so hats off to you for that.
But you know, we have a good friend in Angela Rye,
who is who's who organized this State of the People

(01:11:27):
Power tour along with a few others, and I think
it was exactly right. It was rightly timed. And I
love the places that they chose to kind of host these,
you know, these gatherings. One was in Louisville, Kentucky. They
had one in Mississippi and Jackson, Mississippi, and Baltimore and
all of the Troy and Atlanta, all these amazing places

(01:11:49):
where there are lots of black people. And I think
it's the right thing and at the right time. And
I'll tell you why. You know, after the civil rights
movements success, there were all of these groups that came
together to make sure that they could build a necessary
political power to have the America that they wanted to have.

(01:12:12):
Now I think we are living in the America that
they imagined right now. And Donald Trump is generational TV talent,
Like I think that's part of it, right, Like he
gets on here the Apprentice, the apprentcess, he gets a
mic in a camera, you fry it. This guy is
like you really good, He's really really good. And that's

(01:12:35):
how he kind of gets so much attention. And so
he is kind of the figurehead in some ways, he's
the face of something much more strategic over a much
longer time. I do not believe that Donald Trump, who
did not know Liberia was an American colony. I don't
think that he really understands the intricacies of the Office

(01:12:55):
of the OMB or or the way to like, you
know what I'm saying the al I don't think he
knows all of these kind of minute laws, in these
little codes that they're now leveraging to kind of carry
out this agenda. So I don't give him that much credit.
I give him credit for being able to talk really,
really good on TV, but I don't give him credit

(01:13:18):
for being able to actually lead. And the reason why
they're getting things done is because there was a fifty
year plan in place that was intent on undermining the courts,
that was intent on undermining the media, the press, that
was intent on undermining the university. That's what was in place.
They established the Federalist Society so that they could interpret

(01:13:41):
laws in a really conservative, regressive way, and they could
lobby and raise a ton of money to make sure
that those lawyers and legal minds ended up as judges,
so that when they got to twenty twenty five and
the person did whoever was in office, did the thing
that they've been planning to do. When those things, when
lawsuits were brought against them, they would end up winning

(01:14:03):
because they had already stacked the deck on the court level.
They did what they set out to undermine the press
and to create alternative forms of media, so that there
would never be the ability to undermine what they say right,
to completely pull apart the concept of truth. They set
out to kind of jerry mander and to win on

(01:14:23):
state and local levels for decades so that they could
enact their vision for America on every single level. And
I think right now you mentioned that I talked to
President Barack Obama recently. One of the things that I
asked him is like, you know, where are you. Everyone's
wondering where you've been, and they want you to be
more out there. And he told me he's like, hey,

(01:14:44):
I'm out here. But the thing that he kind of
talked about that I took note of was that through
the foundation, the Obama Foundation, they've been building all kinds
of you know, necessary leadership kind of capital. They've been
building up these young leaders who they want to lead
in the future. And I appreciate that future focused idea

(01:15:05):
because I think in so many ways Democrats are really
focused on the moment. They want to win in twenty
twenty six. They want to win back the House, they
want to win the presidency in twenty twenty eight, But
really you need the kind of vision that will look
forty years down the road and say this is the
kind of America I want to live in, or I
want my children to live in, or maybe my grandchildren

(01:15:26):
to live in in forty years, And how do I
reverse engineer a plan that gets us there? And so,
to bring you full circle, I think that what Angela
and the State of the People Power Tour are doing
is that's a kind of a necessary part of that
larger push to have in America that we will want
to live in in a decade or twenty years, or
thirty years or forty years. And I think a lot

(01:15:48):
of people are neglecting that. And so what's the response
to the Federalist Society who's putting together an organization that
can put more progressive people, you know, humans entered judges
on the bench, you know what I mean? Like, who's
doing that? Because ultimately, Carrie, I want us to win
on the issues of humanity. I really want to win

(01:16:10):
on racist I don't want racism to win. I want
to beat racism up, guys, And I don't think that's
too much to ask. And I'm hoping that there are
people who are thinking strategically about bringing that vision to reality.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
You say, you know, you say what I say. I
was like, I wonder there's I hope there's somebody who's
doing it right now. I hope there's somebody who's doing
it right now. Have you ever thought of doing it
right now? My friends always say that to me. My
friends are like, you always want to say something. Why
don't you just be the change? I said, I'm participating
in the way in which I have been blessed to participate.
I am doing the work that I can, the work
that I know that I have the capacity to do.

(01:16:44):
But there is a part of me that looks at
the looks at you, or looks at other people and think.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
This would be a great leader.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
I want he run And it's easy to pass the buck,
and it's easy to ask someone else to do it
because we see something in them. But I also know,
and I don't know, if you struggle with this when
people ask me that I struggle with and if I'm
being really candid and naked, I struggle with, well, how

(01:17:10):
does this affect me personally? How am I going to
if I say something so real and so honest, Will
I ever be able to make a living? Will I
be ostracized out of the community that I've known. Most recently,
I've had two different people say, well, be careful. You
know you're on CNN.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Be careful, got be careful, be fighting with them white
people on TV. Gotta be careful.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
It makes me angry to my core when I hear that.
And my response has been and I shouldn't be defensive,
but my response is, was Harriet Tubman careful?

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Real?

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
What if she decided that she didn't want to do
anything for the people so that they could be free?
What if Martin Luther King Junior got tired? What if
Malcolm X got tired and said no to be careful?
We would not be able to enjoy the freedoms that
we have today. And I truly understand that this country

(01:18:06):
is only held together by a few individuals that really
care for the country as a whole in the way
in which you describe it. But do you ever struggle
with that? Do you ever struggle with.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Am I doing too much? Am I saying too much?
Will this cost me down the line? What does my
future look like if I continue on this path?

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
No? Absolutely, absolutely, I think about you know, future kids.
I don't have kids today, but I think about a
future you know, or my family or any of that.
You know, I mean, you are a public figure, so
you know that there are crazy folks out there are
who are dming you something nuts right now?

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Right, No, they're not even they're not even respectful enough
to make it a DM. It's under my comments, so
it's not even they can't even hide it. They're like,
just because I hate you, you idiot, sin right, They're
like a real person on the other side of it.
Problem is talking talking to me so raggedy. I was

(01:19:05):
so unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Sideways, I hear you. I think about that stuff often,
and so yeah, you know, I don't know. I think
that truthfully, like we are already leaders in this work.
Their media matters. I really believe in it, and I
believe that telling the truth matters. Your voice is important,
and it's important to use it in a way that

(01:19:29):
helps liberate people. And so I do think that that
in some ways we are already doing this. I know
that your question is more so like official kind of
elected leadership, and I don't know about that. I don't
know if anything like that is in my future, but
I do I really enjoy being able to again tell
the truth and be able to to kind of tell
these stories, as I've said earlier, that are often you know,

(01:19:52):
left untold and and the way it might inspire someone.
I'll tell you this. You know, I got an email
year from a parent who said, Hey, I'm watching your videos.
I do this series called About That Life where I
talk about you know, these black these radical kind of
resistance black history figures usually and it's not just only

(01:20:13):
black people, but it's usually black people who did something
and pushed for some change and bucked against the status quo.
And this mom, she's like in Texas. She says, Hey,
I'm a homeschool mom here in Texas. I have a
cohort of other moms and we all come together and
I screenshot your videos and take the information from your

(01:20:34):
videos and it is a part of our curriculum. And
I'm like mind blown by this, like what she's going
through all this work, and it encouraged me because it
means that it's effective and it's helping someone. And there's
gonna be some kid who now knows about Charles Hamilton
Houston and he would not have known about that guy otherwise,
perhaps especially in the state like Texas. And so now

(01:20:54):
he's gonna kind of like or she is going to
learn and maybe be better and be more effectively as
a result of it. And so I think what we're
doing is important, and I think is important that we
continue to do.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
It in the way in which we can do it,
in the way in which it makes sense and feels authentic.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
That's all.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
I just want to be able to feel like I'm
really being true to myself. There are times in which
I'm measured and yes, and I have a filter, but
you know, at my core, I'm just saying, recognize our
humanity we deserve. It's not right. And by the way,
it's not just for black people. I feel that way
across the board. I'm the kind of person if I'm

(01:21:30):
walking down the street and I see somebody getting treated unfairly,
I'm like, hey, hold on.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
My friends have told me before, mind your business, get
beat up in New York. Mind your business.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Yeah, I'm effis myja business? You're gonna get beat up
in New York.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
But I am the.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Person just like, well, that's not right, and that's just
who I am, and trust me hereas and if I
could be any different, I would I tell my friends
that all the time. But if I could just sit
home and be cute and not in my my business.
I would, I really would. It's an easier life. No
one wants to deal with this. No one wants anybody
in your comments calling you all kind of names. But
I am grateful for you. I am grateful for the

(01:22:02):
work that you do. I think that I would love
to have you on forever. It's been an hour and
change and I could talk to you all day because
it is a reminder of what we should be doing.
Your work is invaluable. Keep teaching the children, myself included
in Last but not least, I really want you to
talk about your book so people know to go out

(01:22:23):
and get your book. Before I let you go, you
did something special.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Oh wow, thank you so much for the kind words
and for having me here. This is a real honor.
I'm going to go brag in my.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Talking to Carry and she thinks you're the best.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
And that too. On the records. On the record, yeah,
behind me. I have the book, a kid's book about Juneteenth.
I wrote this book to literally bring the story of
Juneteenth to families, to caretakers and children, and to make
sure that the story continues on. You know, we know
that this is now a federal holiday currently, hopefully it remains.

(01:23:01):
But it's also such an important history of the way
that black people have leveraged joy and solidarity for progress
and for survival and to thrive even right, And so
that's why I wrote the book. You can get it
wherever books are sold. It's a kid's book about Juneteenth.
I appreciate you letting me plug that. I don't get

(01:23:23):
to talk about it as much post June Nineteenth, Like June.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Twenty, it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
It's over. I could tell you like.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
A two week period to talk about your motally.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Literally, there's like a two week period.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Bring it back in February.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah, I will do that. I will do that. But
but I love that it exists, and I love the
people are grabbing the book, and I appreciate you for
having me and for this really great conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Keep doing the work. Thank you, Garrison Hayes for joining
us on Naked Sports.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Thank you, thank you, thank you all.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Right, folks, thanks so much for joining us on this
edition of Naked Sports. I hope you learned something that
is always, always, always the number one goal.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
I want to point out.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
That next weekend, next weekend, WNBA All Star, tune in,
watch support the ladies, help change this narrative. Stop talking
about who's jealous of whom and even if they are
add the so what, because does it matter? It's all
going to get handled on the court. And then if
it doesn't get handled on the court specifically, you'll hear

(01:24:27):
about it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
You'll hear about.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
It all right, y'all, I'm going to go to the
WNBA All Star at least that's my intention. I'll keep
y'all posted if I do. I'm also head in ne Vegas.
Shout out to my girl, Swin Cash. You guys have
to support Swin Cash. Speaking of WNBA, she is an
All Star, a legend, Hall of Famer, and she's having
a huge, huge, huge conference for women in sports, and

(01:24:52):
she was so generous enough to invite me to speak.
So I'm excited to be there and we're just going
to talk about all the things changing, the narratives, being
loud and proud, and what's next for the future in
front of the camera and behind the scenes. So shout
out to Swin Cash. And when I come back, I'll
tell you all about the festivities. Those I was able
to make and those I wasn't able to.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
Make my que cart is full. Man, I got lots
going on, all right, y'all. Thanks for listening to Naked Sports.
Talk to y'all next week.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion,
produced by Jacquise Thomas, sound designed and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast
Network in iHeartMedia

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Breakfast Club News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Charlamagne Tha God

DJ Envy

Jess Hilarious

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Breakfast Club

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Naked Sports: Red, Black and Blue with Garrison Hayes