March 11, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode, Tudor discusses the topic of transgenderism and children transitioning with Tamara Pietzke. They explore the politicization of the issue and the loss of trust in the medical community. Tamara shares her experiences and concerns as a therapist, including the lack of research and informed consent. They discuss the importance of therapy and the need for long-term studies. Tamara also talks about her nonprofit organization, the LGBT Courage Coalition, which supports individuals who speak out against gender affirming care. They conclude by discussing the potential for political and medical advocacy to protect children. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. For more information visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today. We are going
to cover a hard topic. And I say it's a
hard topic because I'm coming from the political world, and
I think it's something that became political that should not
have become political. And I say that because after my race,
I read a lot about the world of transgenderism and
(00:22):
kids transitioning and then kids detransitioning, and I thought, hmm,
are we doing a disservice to kids? Kids? Kids? I mean,
they're children who are going through this by having a
political discussion. And I kind of feel a couple different
ways about this. I feel like it's not a discussion
that should be in politics. But on the flip side,
(00:44):
I think it ended up there because there was a
loss of trust in the medical community that we thought
would always protect. Was there to do no harm. And
I'm not saying they're purposely doing harm, but it seems
as though there have been decisions made to push some
kids in an area of irreversible effects that maybe were
(01:06):
not best for them. This is, to me, was all
stuff that I'm hearing, though it's all stuff that I'm
hearing from the outside. And so I found Tamara Pittski
and she I reread her story and I was like,
I need someone who fully wants to care for people,
(01:26):
has no political affiliation, but has been through this and
seeing both sides to help explain this. So she graciously
agreed to join us today to talk about this. Thank
you so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
First, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Absolutely So you are out in Washington State and I
was reading through your story and I just found it
so fascinating because I was a psych major in college,
and I think that you talked about like you had
gone through losing your mom when at a young age
and losing your mom, you felt like, I can help
other people. And I think a lot of times when
(01:59):
you go into a field like that, I mean a
lot of times people who have had something childhood cancer
become doctors. So when you've gone through a trauma, you
want to help other people. So I knew when I
read that that you were coming at this from like
a genuine place. And then you talk about your practice.
When did you start to see things where you said,
(02:21):
maybe this is getting dangerous or we're choosing the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Sure, So the gender firming care, the training, the mandated
training took place in September, and we hadn't really had
any trainings that were mandated until then, Like the trainings
that were happening periodically weren't mandated, but that one was.
And so I felt like, u oh, this doesn't seem
(02:46):
like this seems concerning to me. So I started doing
a lot of research. Was the it was Labor Day weekend.
I just like spent the whole weekend after I put
the kids to bed just researching what is gender for
me care? What are the pros, what are the cons?
I realized I had to dig pretty deep because like
when I would google what are the dangers of gender
(03:06):
firming care, the result would be things like how to
support your LGBTQ friend. Like I was like, Okay, well
now I'm realizing that I'm going to have to look
a little bit deeper because Google's not going to give
me a direct answer here. And it just broke my
heart to realize that, like, there are so many reasons
to put a pause on this, and instead, my employer,
Multi Care, was mandated that mandating that all of its
(03:29):
clinicians go to this training, and so, yeah, I went
to the training. I asked some questions. They were incredibly
hostile towards me, said I was doing damage to people. Basically,
I asked, like, if countries in Europe are pulling back,
if they're pressing pause on this and reevaluating things, why
are we not just like running full steam ahead, but
(03:51):
saying that like if we don't, if you don't do this,
you lose. You can't work for us anymore. Like this
is best practice. There's evidence to the contrary, and they're
just ignoring it, you know. And so I asked these
questions and the chat box just blew up, saying like
you are part of the problem. You need to check
your biases. So that's kind of where it all began.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I think that it's funny you mentioned this are the
European model, because I think that as a candidate running
and we're in the midst of this where we start
to see all of these kids and it's like a
real uptick suddenly of young girls who are deciding that
they want to transition. And at the same time, when
(04:30):
I was running, we started to see the British model
changing and they're like, you know what, we're going to
step back a few paces. Maybe we don't want to
do surgery. I'm kids right away, maybe we don't want
to go this far, and we start talking about this,
and it was I think, kind of like a secret
where people were like, look, I agree with you, I
(04:52):
don't think it's political, don't really want to talk about it,
don't fear it in my family. But you never know
what your kids are watching. But families, I think, at
the same time are shamed. I mean, we've seen some
of these chat groups where parents are shamed because they
feel like they're losing their kid, but at the same
time they're being told this is the only answer. And
(05:15):
that was a story that I read a few I
would say, like six months ago of a mom who
was like, I had to say goodbye to my daughter
and accept that I was going to have a son,
and I can't tell you how those feelings work inside
of me. And no matter who I spoke to, they
were like, no, you have to accept this and be
(05:35):
encouraging of this. So I think that that's something that
a lot of people don't really think about, is how
it affects the outside family. I mean, we're focused on
the kid, but it's the whole family that goes through this.
And it's a weird thing when you suddenly see the
medical community saying you have to, you have to, you
have to. You had three patients that kind of put
(05:58):
you you you went through this with them, and you said,
something feels off. Can you explain that?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah? So, I mean Multi Care actually sent me a
season desist about that. I'm not supposed to go into details.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
About Okay, well you don't have to do that, but you.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Can read about it in the article. So I'll just say,
go to the Free Press article and you can read
all about that. Basically. In short, I had these.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean think just what you just said is like shocking.
You are not allowed to talk about your own experiences
that you felt were leading you to say, this may
be harmful to kids. And I think that that's something
we we sort of kind of expect from doctors is
to go, okay, I'm questioning some of this science, because
(06:50):
science is about questioning and ask something new comes out,
you question it, but you're not allowed to question it.
I'm sorry, I interrupted, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
No, no, no, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Absolutely. I remember sitting my boss down after I found
out that one of my clients was going to be
taken away from me, like risk management decided that I
couldn't have them anymore because I was asking questions. They
had an extense of trauma history, and there's so many
other factors at play, And I remember sitting her down
and I was like, does this feel okay to you?
Like we can't ask questions without losing our clients. Like
(07:20):
parents are bringing us their kids thinking that we're going
to be able to help them, and we're not doing
anything but just like rubber stamping whatever the kid says
and saying, yeah, absolutely, this thing that you're experiencing as
a thirteen year old, probably you know exactly who you
are and who was at thirteen, knew who we were.
Like it's just breaks my heart, you know. And I
(07:42):
remember talking a little bit with my friend. I was like,
my daughter woke up with a cough one day and
I was like, if I took her to the doctor
right now, and the doctor was like, you should probably
get her on like a lung transplant list, I'd be like,
oh my god, Like if you don't do that, you're
going to kill her. I'd be like, Okay, absolutely, I
have to do that. Then you know, i' probaly would
get a second opinion. But that's what we're doing to
these children, like if you don't affirm your child, then
(08:04):
you're going to kill them, like they will commit suicide,
they'll whatever, or you're going to lose them in some
other way. Like that is as a parent so terrifying
to hear, and that's what we're doing, rather than being like,
you know what, yeah, absolutely, let's walk this process out
with them, let's let them get a little bit older.
But there's so many other factors at play, especially the
social piece.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I feel like there was a huge uptick during twenty twenty.
Kids were on their phones a lot and they were like, Okay,
maybe I am this thing that I'm seeing now, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Because you're trying to figure out who you are at
that age, I mean gladly the nature of hormones going
through your body and you you are literally changing, so
you don't feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, And oftentimes I feel like there's a autism diagnosis,
and so then I feel like that needs attention too,
because often children with autism don't feel like they fit
in anywhere, and so maybe they'll think, oh, the answer
here is in my gender. Like I don't I'm not
actually this gender, you know, I just feel like, there's
so many other things that we should be exploring and
working through these these young people, and they were just yes,
(09:03):
way by whatever they say.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, we've never really historically questioned the medical community. And
I think that I tell this story. I experienced this
when I had cancer, because I went to my local
hospital and they were like, this is the treatment, this
is what you have to do, and inside of me
something went, I don't know if that's the only treatment.
It was a treatment, there's no question that was a treatment,
(09:27):
but was that the treatment that I was going to
say was best for me? And so I think that
that's something we're not used to as a society. We're
inherently trusting of our medical community, believing that the person
that right there in town is going to tell us
the best thing, and it's okay to push and say, well,
I want to see something else. But I think that
(09:48):
with this particular issue, people have felt like, if you're pushing,
you're trying to do conversion therapy and convert the person
back to being the gender that they were born as.
But it it's weird because the science would show that
eight out of ten kids that have gender dys For you,
when they're young, will grow out of it. So why
(10:08):
can't you have that conversation? I guess that's where we're
all going.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Why. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it
at all. It doesn't make any sense to me. I
also feel like, as far as the medical community, how
are you supposed to have any faith in a system
where you know, like, if practitioners question authorities and say
like like the higher ups and say, hey, is this
really the best thing, They'll be silenced. Like, how are
you supposed to have faith in a medical community where
(10:32):
the people who are providing the direct care if they
err a concern might just be silenced and not able
to actually explore that.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Further, right, Because that is what happened to you and
that we really haven't gotten into. So you talked a
little bit about the cease and desist, but this was
because when you pushed back, they were they pretty much
just said, see ya, you're no longer here.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah. So when I started to ask questions and send
emails and just like thought out things about like sock
and you know, just the things that I was reading,
like there can be other factors at play that could
impact a child's gender identity, you know, and when I
would ask these questions, I would be met with just
like this response that no, there's no, there's no other
(11:12):
factors at play. If the child is saying that they
are not the gender that they were assigned at birth,
then they're not and you have to just take them
at you know, take them at their word with that.
And so when I got asked to write a letter
for a thirteen year old to start tyestosterone, I was like,
I absolutely can't do that, like there's so much else
going on here. And so I asked the person who
(11:33):
did the training again and my boss, and they reported
me to risk management. And when I met with risk management,
I thought, Okay, finally she'll go through the chart. We'll
realize like, oh yeah, there are some other things here
that really just need some you know, therapeutic attention rather
than just fast tracking them to the gender clinic. And
instead they decided that I was the risk not not
(11:54):
starting the kid on testosterone, and so they took the
client from me.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. You and I have kind of
had a similar experience when it comes to trying to
figure this out because it's a genuine I mean, I
do believe that there are people with gender dysphoria. I
Like I said, I studied this in college and back
(12:18):
thirty years ago or twenty five years ago when I
was in college, this is this was in the DSM.
You know, we were studying that there was gender dysphoria.
We know that it exists, but it is not this common.
And I think that's when some of us started to go,
WHOA wait a minute, how did it happen that all
of a sudden There are so many people that feel
that they were born in the wrong body, and generally
(12:40):
it was once the person became an adult, they would say, hey,
I've always kind of felt this way, but really, parents
weren't taking children of age two and saying, oh, my
kid is obviously in the wrong body. So I think
that we both started to dig into what is really
going on. And as you dig into it, the stories
are heartbreaking of these kids who had their genitals removed,
(13:05):
their breasts removed, and especially I think that as I
think it kind of was something that was near and
dear to my heart as someone who's gone through a
double missctomy as a cancer patient knows what it's like
to you know, that's no longer your body, right, But
I had to because mine were killing me. They were
told theirs were killing them, but it wasn't true. And
(13:27):
so these women, who oftentimes did go through some sort
of abuse or have some other like you talked about
autism or a feeling of disconnection, were convinced, sometimes at fifteen,
sometimes at seventeen, to have their breasts removed. And then
it seems like there's usually like a five to seven
(13:49):
year period for those who weren't actually meant to transition,
to go, wow, this was wrong, but they've had these
life changing effects.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I know, I hear that story to. You know
those stories too. And I think I could not live
with myself if I signed my name to a document
where five, ten, fifteen years from now, the person is
in that place where they're like, I can't believe that.
Like my therapist just smiled and nodded and agreed with
what I was saying at thirteen, and now I don't
have my breasts anymore, you know, like, how can I
(14:19):
live with myself? Well?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And I love the fact that you I think it
was interesting that you were like, oh, well, now that
this is being reported, they'll dig into her files. And
they didn't. And the reason I find that fascinating is
because that's what all of these d transitioners said. Why
didn't people ask me more? Why didn't they dig deeper?
Why didn't they find out what was really at the
(14:43):
root of me feeling like I wasn't myself.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Because we're not allowed to, which is baffling to me. Like,
so as soon as somebody comes in and says that
they have gender distressed, we have to just throw out
all our clinical training. We can't do our jobs anymore,
or else it's considered conversion thing therapy or something like
trans transphobia or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You know, But doesn't it go against everything that you
have been trained in. I mean, you're supposed to dig deep.
I remember when I worked at I worked at our
clinic at the University Kentucky, and if you were a
student there, you could work in the clinic and read
through the files as long as they weren't someone connected
to the university or student, and you could read so
(15:27):
deeply into how these people had talked through their trauma
in their life, and how they had worked through and
how the therapist worked through this with them such a
desperate need, and here you are, this person who is
so genuine in what you do, and you were taken
out and then you ended up going someplace out and
they saw the article and then you lost that job.
(15:49):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, it's been They didn't say that was why. They
just said, I don't think you're the right fit for
this position. And so then I was, you know, single
mom of three with no income. You just it's been
so hard and I still have no regrets because I
feel like somebody has to advocate for these children. Somebody
has to have a voice and say like, no, this
isn't okay. We need to like reevaluate things.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So how do what do you see as the next steps?
Because I was reading about what some of these kids
were saying and honestly made me feel incredibly guilty that
I've spoken on this topic as a political person, because
they were overwhelmingly like, now that I've come out and
(16:32):
I've said that this wasn't me, people call me this
like right wing crazy person and they're saying I'm political
and my body is not a political issue, and I'm
my gosh, we've heard that in so many cases where
people come out and jump on something politically, but these
kids really need an advocate. And how do we how
(16:55):
do we say, gosh, look at Great Britain, look at
it's like the Netherlands and all these countries that are saying, hey,
this was wrong. Talk a little bit about that, because
they have changed what they're doing. Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, they have. I don't know a lot of the
details of it, because i'm you know, I just I
just know that they have done the best like long
term studies, and that they have decided that, like, you know,
we need to stop this. We can't. There's no there's
no way right now to know which of the children
that are presenting with gender distress are going to grow
(17:27):
up to be adults who are like, yeah, no, I
still experience this. So if we can't determine that right now,
which of the you said eight out of ten, you know,
will sort of outgrow it or end up being gay
or something down the road. Right, But like we can't
figure out what who the twenty percent are, then we
need to not do anything. These are children, you know,
we can't just like make these decisions based on what
they're saying, you know, without any sort of like ability
(17:50):
to really evaluate.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That isn't that kind of what therapy was supposed to
be though, was to talk through get through every every
week and go through the challenges of what life is
and try to do that and change mindset and the
way you interpret things, in the way you think about things,
rather than trying to medicate it away or cut it away.
(18:14):
And I'm not saying change mindset from the standpoint of hey,
this is not who you are. I mean, change your
outlook on things, like try to see things in a
positive way.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah it is. Yeah, And you know, I'm not an
expert on this topic. I'm just a therapist and I'm
just a mom. And I hope that like people can
feel free to speak out even if they don't have
like years of experience being an activist in this area.
You know, like if something feels wrong, like have a
voice about it. You know, it's just so important. And
(18:43):
I think that that's what it's going to take for
things to change, is people saying no, I'm gonna you know,
not let you intimidate me out of saying that I
have concerns about this. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately people transitioners
down the road to too and I hate that it
would have to come to that, that people were going
to keep hurting children. But I think that's kind of
what it's going to end up taking because no one
(19:04):
seems to be really listening all that much.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's actually an interesting point because we've had this discussion
multiple times about other issues where people have sued, whether
it comes to something happening in school or social media
or whatever it is, that is a situation where it's like,
you know what, money talks. When people feel it financially,
then they start to change, and maybe that's these hospital
systems or a bigger you know, a AAAP or whatever
(19:30):
it is. Because I think when we saw the American
Academy of Pediatrics come out and be like, oh, no,
you have to do this, people start to go, what
this We've inherently always trusted you. This is the agency
that takes care of our children. And then you're saying this,
and at the same time, we're seeing these stories of
kids who have had their penis cut off and then
(19:53):
they can never have a normal they can never urinate
normally again, or they leak or there's and I know
this is very very graphic, but I think that when
I think about this when I think about mutilating a
child like this, and there is no way that you
can fully understand what that means at that age. And
(20:13):
I think, honestly, even going through a double miasectomy myself
and knowing I had to go through it and going
through all of the details of it, until you've lived it,
you do not know what that is to have part
of your body cut off. And this is so much
more extreme to think about what they're doing to children's genitals,
(20:33):
and you see these scars on the legs and then
new body parts built, and then generally these people go,
I didn't know what was going to happen. And I
think the most criminal part about this, and I've talked
about this on the podcast before and again it is graphic,
but I think a big part of our life as
human beings on this earth and when we're here is
(20:56):
intimate relationships and finding someone that you can love and
fully live life with or have those experiences with, and
that is something that is robbed from these children, whether
it is these puberty blockers that cause them to never
grow sexually and they can never have an intimate relationship,
(21:17):
or it is having your body parts cut off and
you never feel down there again. And that's that seems
to be consistently I hear from d transitioners. We weren't told,
and I think that's something you've been concerned about, right.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, So when I was reading through the different gender
clinic notes, there's like a form where they just kind
of like fill in things for the kid, you know,
And I'm not convinced that kids are really Like I
had one client who their initial apployment the gender clinic
was given the okay to start testosterone. And this is
a client who in their therapy sessions with me wasn't
(21:54):
really very verbal. So I found it kind of shocking
that they would be willing to are be able to
to verbalize things the way that the note said that
they were. And so yeah, and I know that there
was a spot in the note where it said like
if your therapist isn't affirming, then that can cause you know, harm,
and so you should find one who is affirming, which
basically means one who'll write this letter for you. But yeah,
(22:15):
I don't think that they are beings. This information is
being really spelled out, and how how could it be
if after the initial appointment they're given the okay to
start testosterone or you know, some other sort of procedure.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We need to be clear about
one thing because the political world getting involved in this,
from my perspective, was generally genuinely as a mother who
looks at this and goes, gosh, how can you permanently
(22:50):
damage a kid like this? We've got to put this off,
We've got to wait, We've got to talk through this
and wait. And I think most parents in the political
world went what are we how could we possibly do this?
But it became demonized talking about it because if you
didn't accept it, you were transphobic, and it was that
you were not attacking the medical community or the surgery,
(23:11):
was that you were attacking the child instead of protecting
the child, which I think most people who are like,
what are you talking about? Their goal was always to
protect the child. They were created into this monster who
wanted to attack the kids. And then you had all
these activists come out and yell about it. I don't
deny that there is an LGB kick community out there.
(23:32):
I don't deny that there are people who feel like
they are they are in the wrong body, and that
there are successful transitions in the world, and that happens
to adults. In fact, one of the people that I
read about had a transition between at about fifteen years old,
de transitioned at thirty and is now a person who
(23:52):
is out there saying no transition should happen before twenty five.
And I agree, I think we've all learned it. That's
when the the frontal lobe is fully formed, when you
can actually understand consequence. Why would we allow children to
have surgery before they can understand the consequence. I know
that you are an advocate to that community and you
(24:15):
and you want to take care of them. So you
created a nonprofit called the LGBT Courage Coalition. Tell us
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I didn't create it. I think Jamie Reid was
behind that. But they are supporting people who are coming
out to have a voice in this area and just saying, like,
you know, if if you end up speaking out against
your employer, your employer, or you know, saying like I
have concerns about this, and your family turns on you,
(24:43):
your employer fires you, like, we will catch you, like
we will help you we will support you. We will
make like they set up a give send to go
for me, so that I'm not just like not able
to provide for my family like they just I think
it's just important for people who are who have these
concerns to know that there is an organization out there
who will help you, like, will help you get through
whatever ends up happening. When you decide to say to
(25:06):
speak out and say I have concerns.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, I think that's key because I think there if
what I've read is true, there are multiple people in
the medical and therapeutic community who are saying behind the scenes,
this is messed up. We can no longer do this,
but they can't speak out. And I mean, I think
that this is very similar to when we went through
(25:29):
some of these pharmaceuticals that were coming out and people
are like, I don't want to say that. I don't
think it's right because I don't want to screw up
grant funding and things like that. There's just a community
that is hard to speak out against. When you're doing researcher,
you're trying new things. So I think that's important if
you are out there and you've seen something that you
say this is wrong, and you genuinely know what's wrong.
(25:52):
This is an organization that can help you if you
do speak out and you do get fired. It's the
LGBT Courage Coalition. So check that out. I think it's
so important. You know, what do you I want to
ask before I let you go? What do you think
the future is? Is there something that we can do?
Is there a role where maybe a political advocate comes
(26:15):
together with a medical advocate and can do something to say,
let's take a look at protecting kids' emotions out of it,
transphobia out of it? What does it take? What is
the reality? What are other countries doing? Do you see
a world where that could come together?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I have to believe that there is one, And I
know that there's a lot of people who are fighting
this fight who are not going to give up until
that happens. So I'm very encouraged to know that there's
people who who care about our young people and this
is not a transphobic or political issue for them either,
Like we just want to make sure that we're not
harming children. So that's my I believe that that that
(26:52):
kind of that can happen. I just think it's going
to be a slow process.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Do you see an opportunity for you to go back
into therapy?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, I'm working on opening a private practice. So that's
another way I can, you know, help these families is
just by providing a place where we do therapy and
not just you know, fast track them to medicalization.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
This has become kind of a national story because it
was in the New York Times, you were in the
Free Press. A lot of people have heard this. Have
other D transitioners reached out to you at all and said, hey.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Thanks, you know, I've gotten anyone who's reached out to
me fortunately has been very like encouraging and like, yeah,
a lot of times they do have an experience with it,
whether it's themselves or it's a parent who's like, my
child went through this, and now, you know, I'm so
grateful for this that they ended up figuring out who
(27:42):
they were before they ended up having surgery or whatever else.
You know. Yeah, a lot of people have reached out
and just been like, thank you for having a voice.
This is so important and I'm grateful. I'm so grateful
that like I've been given a platform to have a
voice and just say something is not right here with
this with the medical community, and you really need to
vet your therapist that you're sending your children too, because
they might be operating under a rule from their employers
(28:05):
saying that if they don't, you know, do gender firming care,
then they're not going to be employed there anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I think there's always a line that we're trying to
figure out. What is the line between where government starts
and private citizens, you know, government ends and private citizens begin,
and at what time do we want government to step in?
And I think that there have been people politically who
have come out and said I'm running and this is
(28:30):
an issue for me, and I'm going to take care
of it. And that's when people feel like, oh, wait
a minute, this person is getting too far into my
private life. But I do think there's a place where
elected officials can advocate for folks like you, for detransitioners,
and go to the medical community and say, hey, can
we look at this, Can we just reasonably as scientists
(28:53):
look at this, and can you come back to us
and tell and explain to us why other countries are
doing it differently, why you think that the United States
needs to do it this way. I think that's a
hard place for us to get to because there's been
so much trauma about around this. But I would really
love to see some of our elected officials partner with
someone like you and be able to say, hey, can
(29:15):
we have some hearings on this? Can we have some
discussions on this that our reality where we actually go
through the true numbers of kids who have to have
something done and kids who should wait. I honestly, I
believe that everybody should wait and not have any permanent
interventions until they've gone through that you know, twenty five
(29:35):
year old point of fully developed and understanding what's happening.
But I do think that there's a path for people
to join together and protect kids.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. Absolutely. I know the Courage Coalition sent out letters
to my local politicians to just let them know, you know,
this is what's happening at Multi Care, and as far
as I know, no one responded. So it would be
so great if people could be like, you know, yeah,
let's look into this and not see it as like
a left or right wing issue, just to look into
it and make sure that the kids in our community
are being taken care of.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Well, I mean, that's definitely interesting, and i'd sometime I'd
like to talk to you about that more, because maybe
that's the right route. Maybe we take it out of
the political world and it goes into the medical world
and those people chat. But Tamara Pitsky, thank you for
your bravery and thank you for talking about this today.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on the
Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to
Tutor dixonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, or
head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts and join us next time on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today. We are going
to cover a hard topic. And I say it's a
hard topic because I'm coming from the political world, and
I think it's something that became political that should not
have become political. And I say that because after my race,
I read a lot about the world of transgenderism and
(00:22):
kids transitioning and then kids detransitioning, and I thought, hmm,
are we doing a disservice to kids? Kids? Kids? I mean,
they're children who are going through this by having a
political discussion. And I kind of feel a couple different
ways about this. I feel like it's not a discussion
that should be in politics. But on the flip side,
(00:44):
I think it ended up there because there was a
loss of trust in the medical community that we thought
would always protect. Was there to do no harm. And
I'm not saying they're purposely doing harm, but it seems
as though there have been decisions made to push some
kids in an area of irreversible effects that maybe were
(01:06):
not best for them. This is, to me, was all
stuff that I'm hearing, though it's all stuff that I'm
hearing from the outside. And so I found Tamara Pittski
and she I reread her story and I was like,
I need someone who fully wants to care for people,
(01:26):
has no political affiliation, but has been through this and
seeing both sides to help explain this. So she graciously
agreed to join us today to talk about this. Thank
you so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
First, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Absolutely So you are out in Washington State and I
was reading through your story and I just found it
so fascinating because I was a psych major in college,
and I think that you talked about like you had
gone through losing your mom when at a young age
and losing your mom, you felt like, I can help
other people. And I think a lot of times when
(01:59):
you go into a field like that, I mean a
lot of times people who have had something childhood cancer
become doctors. So when you've gone through a trauma, you
want to help other people. So I knew when I
read that that you were coming at this from like
a genuine place. And then you talk about your practice.
When did you start to see things where you said,
(02:21):
maybe this is getting dangerous or we're choosing the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Sure, So the gender firming care, the training, the mandated
training took place in September, and we hadn't really had
any trainings that were mandated until then, Like the trainings
that were happening periodically weren't mandated, but that one was.
And so I felt like, u oh, this doesn't seem
(02:46):
like this seems concerning to me. So I started doing
a lot of research. Was the it was Labor Day weekend.
I just like spent the whole weekend after I put
the kids to bed just researching what is gender for
me care? What are the pros, what are the cons?
I realized I had to dig pretty deep because like
when I would google what are the dangers of gender
(03:06):
firming care, the result would be things like how to
support your LGBTQ friend. Like I was like, Okay, well
now I'm realizing that I'm going to have to look
a little bit deeper because Google's not going to give
me a direct answer here. And it just broke my
heart to realize that, like, there are so many reasons
to put a pause on this, and instead, my employer,
Multi Care, was mandated that mandating that all of its
(03:29):
clinicians go to this training, and so, yeah, I went
to the training. I asked some questions. They were incredibly
hostile towards me, said I was doing damage to people. Basically,
I asked, like, if countries in Europe are pulling back,
if they're pressing pause on this and reevaluating things, why
are we not just like running full steam ahead, but
(03:51):
saying that like if we don't, if you don't do this,
you lose. You can't work for us anymore. Like this
is best practice. There's evidence to the contrary, and they're
just ignoring it, you know. And so I asked these
questions and the chat box just blew up, saying like
you are part of the problem. You need to check
your biases. So that's kind of where it all began.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I think that it's funny you mentioned this are the
European model, because I think that as a candidate running
and we're in the midst of this where we start
to see all of these kids and it's like a
real uptick suddenly of young girls who are deciding that
they want to transition. And at the same time, when
(04:30):
I was running, we started to see the British model
changing and they're like, you know what, we're going to
step back a few paces. Maybe we don't want to
do surgery. I'm kids right away, maybe we don't want
to go this far, and we start talking about this,
and it was I think, kind of like a secret
where people were like, look, I agree with you, I
(04:52):
don't think it's political, don't really want to talk about it,
don't fear it in my family. But you never know
what your kids are watching. But families, I think, at
the same time are shamed. I mean, we've seen some
of these chat groups where parents are shamed because they
feel like they're losing their kid, but at the same
time they're being told this is the only answer. And
(05:15):
that was a story that I read a few I
would say, like six months ago of a mom who
was like, I had to say goodbye to my daughter
and accept that I was going to have a son,
and I can't tell you how those feelings work inside
of me. And no matter who I spoke to, they
were like, no, you have to accept this and be
(05:35):
encouraging of this. So I think that that's something that
a lot of people don't really think about, is how
it affects the outside family. I mean, we're focused on
the kid, but it's the whole family that goes through this.
And it's a weird thing when you suddenly see the
medical community saying you have to, you have to, you
have to. You had three patients that kind of put
(05:58):
you you you went through this with them, and you said,
something feels off. Can you explain that?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah? So, I mean Multi Care actually sent me a
season desist about that. I'm not supposed to go into details.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
About Okay, well you don't have to do that, but you.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Can read about it in the article. So I'll just say,
go to the Free Press article and you can read
all about that. Basically. In short, I had these.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean think just what you just said is like shocking.
You are not allowed to talk about your own experiences
that you felt were leading you to say, this may
be harmful to kids. And I think that that's something
we we sort of kind of expect from doctors is
to go, okay, I'm questioning some of this science, because
(06:50):
science is about questioning and ask something new comes out,
you question it, but you're not allowed to question it.
I'm sorry, I interrupted, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
No, no, no, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Absolutely. I remember sitting my boss down after I found
out that one of my clients was going to be
taken away from me, like risk management decided that I
couldn't have them anymore because I was asking questions. They
had an extense of trauma history, and there's so many
other factors at play, And I remember sitting her down
and I was like, does this feel okay to you?
Like we can't ask questions without losing our clients. Like
(07:20):
parents are bringing us their kids thinking that we're going
to be able to help them, and we're not doing
anything but just like rubber stamping whatever the kid says
and saying, yeah, absolutely, this thing that you're experiencing as
a thirteen year old, probably you know exactly who you
are and who was at thirteen, knew who we were.
Like it's just breaks my heart, you know. And I
(07:42):
remember talking a little bit with my friend. I was like,
my daughter woke up with a cough one day and
I was like, if I took her to the doctor
right now, and the doctor was like, you should probably
get her on like a lung transplant list, I'd be like,
oh my god, Like if you don't do that, you're
going to kill her. I'd be like, Okay, absolutely, I
have to do that. Then you know, i' probaly would
get a second opinion. But that's what we're doing to
these children, like if you don't affirm your child, then
(08:04):
you're going to kill them, like they will commit suicide,
they'll whatever, or you're going to lose them in some
other way. Like that is as a parent so terrifying
to hear, and that's what we're doing, rather than being like,
you know what, yeah, absolutely, let's walk this process out
with them, let's let them get a little bit older.
But there's so many other factors at play, especially the
social piece.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I feel like there was a huge uptick during twenty twenty.
Kids were on their phones a lot and they were like, Okay,
maybe I am this thing that I'm seeing now, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Because you're trying to figure out who you are at
that age, I mean gladly the nature of hormones going
through your body and you you are literally changing, so
you don't feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, And oftentimes I feel like there's a autism diagnosis,
and so then I feel like that needs attention too,
because often children with autism don't feel like they fit
in anywhere, and so maybe they'll think, oh, the answer
here is in my gender. Like I don't I'm not
actually this gender, you know, I just feel like, there's
so many other things that we should be exploring and
working through these these young people, and they were just yes,
(09:03):
way by whatever they say.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, we've never really historically questioned the medical community. And
I think that I tell this story. I experienced this
when I had cancer, because I went to my local
hospital and they were like, this is the treatment, this
is what you have to do, and inside of me
something went, I don't know if that's the only treatment.
It was a treatment, there's no question that was a treatment,
(09:27):
but was that the treatment that I was going to
say was best for me? And so I think that
that's something we're not used to as a society. We're
inherently trusting of our medical community, believing that the person
that right there in town is going to tell us
the best thing, and it's okay to push and say, well,
I want to see something else. But I think that
(09:48):
with this particular issue, people have felt like, if you're pushing,
you're trying to do conversion therapy and convert the person
back to being the gender that they were born as.
But it it's weird because the science would show that
eight out of ten kids that have gender dys For you,
when they're young, will grow out of it. So why
(10:08):
can't you have that conversation? I guess that's where we're
all going.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Why. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it
at all. It doesn't make any sense to me. I
also feel like, as far as the medical community, how
are you supposed to have any faith in a system
where you know, like, if practitioners question authorities and say
like like the higher ups and say, hey, is this
really the best thing, They'll be silenced. Like, how are
you supposed to have faith in a medical community where
(10:32):
the people who are providing the direct care if they
err a concern might just be silenced and not able
to actually explore that.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Further, right, Because that is what happened to you and
that we really haven't gotten into. So you talked a
little bit about the cease and desist, but this was
because when you pushed back, they were they pretty much
just said, see ya, you're no longer here.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah. So when I started to ask questions and send
emails and just like thought out things about like sock
and you know, just the things that I was reading,
like there can be other factors at play that could
impact a child's gender identity, you know, and when I
would ask these questions, I would be met with just
like this response that no, there's no, there's no other
(11:12):
factors at play. If the child is saying that they
are not the gender that they were assigned at birth,
then they're not and you have to just take them
at you know, take them at their word with that.
And so when I got asked to write a letter
for a thirteen year old to start tyestosterone, I was like,
I absolutely can't do that, like there's so much else
going on here. And so I asked the person who
(11:33):
did the training again and my boss, and they reported
me to risk management. And when I met with risk management,
I thought, Okay, finally she'll go through the chart. We'll
realize like, oh yeah, there are some other things here
that really just need some you know, therapeutic attention rather
than just fast tracking them to the gender clinic. And
instead they decided that I was the risk not not
(11:54):
starting the kid on testosterone, and so they took the
client from me.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. You and I have kind of
had a similar experience when it comes to trying to
figure this out because it's a genuine I mean, I
do believe that there are people with gender dysphoria. I
Like I said, I studied this in college and back
(12:18):
thirty years ago or twenty five years ago when I
was in college, this is this was in the DSM.
You know, we were studying that there was gender dysphoria.
We know that it exists, but it is not this common.
And I think that's when some of us started to go,
WHOA wait a minute, how did it happen that all
of a sudden There are so many people that feel
that they were born in the wrong body, and generally
(12:40):
it was once the person became an adult, they would say, hey,
I've always kind of felt this way, but really, parents
weren't taking children of age two and saying, oh, my
kid is obviously in the wrong body. So I think
that we both started to dig into what is really
going on. And as you dig into it, the stories
are heartbreaking of these kids who had their genitals removed,
(13:05):
their breasts removed, and especially I think that as I
think it kind of was something that was near and
dear to my heart as someone who's gone through a
double missctomy as a cancer patient knows what it's like
to you know, that's no longer your body, right, But
I had to because mine were killing me. They were
told theirs were killing them, but it wasn't true. And
(13:27):
so these women, who oftentimes did go through some sort
of abuse or have some other like you talked about
autism or a feeling of disconnection, were convinced, sometimes at fifteen,
sometimes at seventeen, to have their breasts removed. And then
it seems like there's usually like a five to seven
(13:49):
year period for those who weren't actually meant to transition,
to go, wow, this was wrong, but they've had these
life changing effects.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I know, I hear that story to. You know
those stories too. And I think I could not live
with myself if I signed my name to a document
where five, ten, fifteen years from now, the person is
in that place where they're like, I can't believe that.
Like my therapist just smiled and nodded and agreed with
what I was saying at thirteen, and now I don't
have my breasts anymore, you know, like, how can I
(14:19):
live with myself? Well?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And I love the fact that you I think it
was interesting that you were like, oh, well, now that
this is being reported, they'll dig into her files. And
they didn't. And the reason I find that fascinating is
because that's what all of these d transitioners said. Why
didn't people ask me more? Why didn't they dig deeper?
Why didn't they find out what was really at the
(14:43):
root of me feeling like I wasn't myself.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Because we're not allowed to, which is baffling to me. Like,
so as soon as somebody comes in and says that
they have gender distressed, we have to just throw out
all our clinical training. We can't do our jobs anymore,
or else it's considered conversion thing therapy or something like
trans transphobia or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You know, But doesn't it go against everything that you
have been trained in. I mean, you're supposed to dig deep.
I remember when I worked at I worked at our
clinic at the University Kentucky, and if you were a
student there, you could work in the clinic and read
through the files as long as they weren't someone connected
to the university or student, and you could read so
(15:27):
deeply into how these people had talked through their trauma
in their life, and how they had worked through and
how the therapist worked through this with them such a
desperate need, and here you are, this person who is
so genuine in what you do, and you were taken
out and then you ended up going someplace out and
they saw the article and then you lost that job.
(15:49):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, it's been They didn't say that was why. They
just said, I don't think you're the right fit for
this position. And so then I was, you know, single
mom of three with no income. You just it's been
so hard and I still have no regrets because I
feel like somebody has to advocate for these children. Somebody
has to have a voice and say like, no, this
isn't okay. We need to like reevaluate things.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So how do what do you see as the next steps?
Because I was reading about what some of these kids
were saying and honestly made me feel incredibly guilty that
I've spoken on this topic as a political person, because
they were overwhelmingly like, now that I've come out and
(16:32):
I've said that this wasn't me, people call me this
like right wing crazy person and they're saying I'm political
and my body is not a political issue, and I'm
my gosh, we've heard that in so many cases where
people come out and jump on something politically, but these
kids really need an advocate. And how do we how
(16:55):
do we say, gosh, look at Great Britain, look at
it's like the Netherlands and all these countries that are saying, hey,
this was wrong. Talk a little bit about that, because
they have changed what they're doing. Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, they have. I don't know a lot of the
details of it, because i'm you know, I just I
just know that they have done the best like long
term studies, and that they have decided that, like, you know,
we need to stop this. We can't. There's no there's
no way right now to know which of the children
that are presenting with gender distress are going to grow
(17:27):
up to be adults who are like, yeah, no, I
still experience this. So if we can't determine that right now,
which of the you said eight out of ten, you know,
will sort of outgrow it or end up being gay
or something down the road. Right, But like we can't
figure out what who the twenty percent are, then we
need to not do anything. These are children, you know,
we can't just like make these decisions based on what
they're saying, you know, without any sort of like ability
(17:50):
to really evaluate.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That isn't that kind of what therapy was supposed to
be though, was to talk through get through every every
week and go through the challenges of what life is
and try to do that and change mindset and the
way you interpret things, in the way you think about things,
rather than trying to medicate it away or cut it away.
(18:14):
And I'm not saying change mindset from the standpoint of hey,
this is not who you are. I mean, change your
outlook on things, like try to see things in a
positive way.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah it is. Yeah, And you know, I'm not an
expert on this topic. I'm just a therapist and I'm
just a mom. And I hope that like people can
feel free to speak out even if they don't have
like years of experience being an activist in this area.
You know, like if something feels wrong, like have a
voice about it. You know, it's just so important. And
(18:43):
I think that that's what it's going to take for
things to change, is people saying no, I'm gonna you know,
not let you intimidate me out of saying that I
have concerns about this. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately people transitioners
down the road to too and I hate that it
would have to come to that, that people were going
to keep hurting children. But I think that's kind of
what it's going to end up taking because no one
(19:04):
seems to be really listening all that much.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's actually an interesting point because we've had this discussion
multiple times about other issues where people have sued, whether
it comes to something happening in school or social media
or whatever it is, that is a situation where it's like,
you know what, money talks. When people feel it financially,
then they start to change, and maybe that's these hospital
systems or a bigger you know, a AAAP or whatever
(19:30):
it is. Because I think when we saw the American
Academy of Pediatrics come out and be like, oh, no,
you have to do this, people start to go, what
this We've inherently always trusted you. This is the agency
that takes care of our children. And then you're saying this,
and at the same time, we're seeing these stories of
kids who have had their penis cut off and then
(19:53):
they can never have a normal they can never urinate
normally again, or they leak or there's and I know
this is very very graphic, but I think that when
I think about this when I think about mutilating a
child like this, and there is no way that you
can fully understand what that means at that age. And
(20:13):
I think, honestly, even going through a double miasectomy myself
and knowing I had to go through it and going
through all of the details of it, until you've lived it,
you do not know what that is to have part
of your body cut off. And this is so much
more extreme to think about what they're doing to children's genitals,
(20:33):
and you see these scars on the legs and then
new body parts built, and then generally these people go,
I didn't know what was going to happen. And I
think the most criminal part about this, and I've talked
about this on the podcast before and again it is graphic,
but I think a big part of our life as
human beings on this earth and when we're here is
(20:56):
intimate relationships and finding someone that you can love and
fully live life with or have those experiences with, and
that is something that is robbed from these children, whether
it is these puberty blockers that cause them to never
grow sexually and they can never have an intimate relationship,
(21:17):
or it is having your body parts cut off and
you never feel down there again. And that's that seems
to be consistently I hear from d transitioners. We weren't told,
and I think that's something you've been concerned about, right.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, So when I was reading through the different gender
clinic notes, there's like a form where they just kind
of like fill in things for the kid, you know,
And I'm not convinced that kids are really Like I
had one client who their initial apployment the gender clinic
was given the okay to start testosterone. And this is
a client who in their therapy sessions with me wasn't
(21:54):
really very verbal. So I found it kind of shocking
that they would be willing to are be able to
to verbalize things the way that the note said that
they were. And so yeah, and I know that there
was a spot in the note where it said like
if your therapist isn't affirming, then that can cause you know, harm,
and so you should find one who is affirming, which
basically means one who'll write this letter for you. But yeah,
(22:15):
I don't think that they are beings. This information is
being really spelled out, and how how could it be
if after the initial appointment they're given the okay to
start testosterone or you know, some other sort of procedure.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We need to be clear about
one thing because the political world getting involved in this,
from my perspective, was generally genuinely as a mother who
looks at this and goes, gosh, how can you permanently
(22:50):
damage a kid like this? We've got to put this off,
We've got to wait, We've got to talk through this
and wait. And I think most parents in the political
world went what are we how could we possibly do this?
But it became demonized talking about it because if you
didn't accept it, you were transphobic, and it was that
you were not attacking the medical community or the surgery,
(23:11):
was that you were attacking the child instead of protecting
the child, which I think most people who are like,
what are you talking about? Their goal was always to
protect the child. They were created into this monster who
wanted to attack the kids. And then you had all
these activists come out and yell about it. I don't
deny that there is an LGB kick community out there.
(23:32):
I don't deny that there are people who feel like
they are they are in the wrong body, and that
there are successful transitions in the world, and that happens
to adults. In fact, one of the people that I
read about had a transition between at about fifteen years old,
de transitioned at thirty and is now a person who
(23:52):
is out there saying no transition should happen before twenty five.
And I agree, I think we've all learned it. That's
when the the frontal lobe is fully formed, when you
can actually understand consequence. Why would we allow children to
have surgery before they can understand the consequence. I know
that you are an advocate to that community and you
(24:15):
and you want to take care of them. So you
created a nonprofit called the LGBT Courage Coalition. Tell us
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I didn't create it. I think Jamie Reid was
behind that. But they are supporting people who are coming
out to have a voice in this area and just saying, like,
you know, if if you end up speaking out against
your employer, your employer, or you know, saying like I
have concerns about this, and your family turns on you,
(24:43):
your employer fires you, like, we will catch you, like
we will help you we will support you. We will
make like they set up a give send to go
for me, so that I'm not just like not able
to provide for my family like they just I think
it's just important for people who are who have these
concerns to know that there is an organization out there
who will help you, like, will help you get through
whatever ends up happening. When you decide to say to
(25:06):
speak out and say I have concerns.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, I think that's key because I think there if
what I've read is true, there are multiple people in
the medical and therapeutic community who are saying behind the scenes,
this is messed up. We can no longer do this,
but they can't speak out. And I mean, I think
that this is very similar to when we went through
(25:29):
some of these pharmaceuticals that were coming out and people
are like, I don't want to say that. I don't
think it's right because I don't want to screw up
grant funding and things like that. There's just a community
that is hard to speak out against. When you're doing researcher,
you're trying new things. So I think that's important if
you are out there and you've seen something that you
say this is wrong, and you genuinely know what's wrong.
(25:52):
This is an organization that can help you if you
do speak out and you do get fired. It's the
LGBT Courage Coalition. So check that out. I think it's
so important. You know, what do you I want to
ask before I let you go? What do you think
the future is? Is there something that we can do?
Is there a role where maybe a political advocate comes
(26:15):
together with a medical advocate and can do something to say,
let's take a look at protecting kids' emotions out of it,
transphobia out of it? What does it take? What is
the reality? What are other countries doing? Do you see
a world where that could come together?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I have to believe that there is one, And I
know that there's a lot of people who are fighting
this fight who are not going to give up until
that happens. So I'm very encouraged to know that there's
people who who care about our young people and this
is not a transphobic or political issue for them either,
Like we just want to make sure that we're not
harming children. So that's my I believe that that that
(26:52):
kind of that can happen. I just think it's going
to be a slow process.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Do you see an opportunity for you to go back
into therapy?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, I'm working on opening a private practice. So that's
another way I can, you know, help these families is
just by providing a place where we do therapy and
not just you know, fast track them to medicalization.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
This has become kind of a national story because it
was in the New York Times, you were in the
Free Press. A lot of people have heard this. Have
other D transitioners reached out to you at all and said, hey.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Thanks, you know, I've gotten anyone who's reached out to
me fortunately has been very like encouraging and like, yeah,
a lot of times they do have an experience with it,
whether it's themselves or it's a parent who's like, my
child went through this, and now, you know, I'm so
grateful for this that they ended up figuring out who
(27:42):
they were before they ended up having surgery or whatever else.
You know. Yeah, a lot of people have reached out
and just been like, thank you for having a voice.
This is so important and I'm grateful. I'm so grateful
that like I've been given a platform to have a
voice and just say something is not right here with
this with the medical community, and you really need to
vet your therapist that you're sending your children too, because
they might be operating under a rule from their employers
(28:05):
saying that if they don't, you know, do gender firming care,
then they're not going to be employed there anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I think there's always a line that we're trying to
figure out. What is the line between where government starts
and private citizens, you know, government ends and private citizens begin,
and at what time do we want government to step in?
And I think that there have been people politically who
have come out and said I'm running and this is
(28:30):
an issue for me, and I'm going to take care
of it. And that's when people feel like, oh, wait
a minute, this person is getting too far into my
private life. But I do think there's a place where
elected officials can advocate for folks like you, for detransitioners,
and go to the medical community and say, hey, can
we look at this, Can we just reasonably as scientists
(28:53):
look at this, and can you come back to us
and tell and explain to us why other countries are
doing it differently, why you think that the United States
needs to do it this way. I think that's a
hard place for us to get to because there's been
so much trauma about around this. But I would really
love to see some of our elected officials partner with
someone like you and be able to say, hey, can
(29:15):
we have some hearings on this? Can we have some
discussions on this that our reality where we actually go
through the true numbers of kids who have to have
something done and kids who should wait. I honestly, I
believe that everybody should wait and not have any permanent
interventions until they've gone through that you know, twenty five
(29:35):
year old point of fully developed and understanding what's happening.
But I do think that there's a path for people
to join together and protect kids.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah. Absolutely. I know the Courage Coalition sent out letters
to my local politicians to just let them know, you know,
this is what's happening at Multi Care, and as far
as I know, no one responded. So it would be
so great if people could be like, you know, yeah,
let's look into this and not see it as like
a left or right wing issue, just to look into
it and make sure that the kids in our community
are being taken care of.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Well, I mean, that's definitely interesting, and i'd sometime I'd
like to talk to you about that more, because maybe
that's the right route. Maybe we take it out of
the political world and it goes into the medical world
and those people chat. But Tamara Pitsky, thank you for
your bravery and thank you for talking about this today.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on the
Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to
Tutor dixonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, or
head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts and join us next time on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day.
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