March 25, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode, Meghan Lapp, the fisheries liaison for Seafreeze, discusses the impact of wind turbines on commercial fishing and the environment. She highlights the lack of consideration for fishing grounds and the dangers posed to fishing vessels. Meghan also explains the radar interference caused by wind turbines and the implications for national security. She emphasizes the need for factual information and the importance of protecting food security and local food production. The episode sheds light on the contradictions and lack of accountability in the wind energy industry. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we are talking
again about these wind turbines that are going into the ocean.
I know we've been talking about what this means from
an esthetic viewpoint and what this means for the whales,
and I think that for all of you out here
who listen regularly. One of the reasons we got really
(00:21):
interested in this on the Tutor Dixon Podcast is because
we're seeing lawmakers in Michigan say they are changing local
control in our state, and so these wind turbines will
be able to go anywhere the government wants. So anywhere
the Capitol decides, Hey, we want to put this on
the farm next door, or we want to put these
(00:44):
windmills in Lake Michigan, or we want to put a
solar farm on the farm and next to where we're
getting our food. That can happen and your local community
can do nothing about it. Well, some of the local
folks came to us and said, we don't even really
know what this means. And so as we say started
digging into this, it's like, well, these solar farms, they
(01:04):
may not even be completely without leaching of chemicals into
the ground. And you know, you've got snow, you've got rain,
You've got all of this stuff, sun hitting and heating
these these rare earth minerals up and all the chemicals
that go into making these solar panels are dangerous. Well
then we said, well, what's going on with these wind turbines?
(01:26):
So we decided we would do some research. And it's
funny when you start to do research, you get connected
to some pretty awesome people that know a heck of
a lot more than you can find out in the
short period of time. And so we were introduced to
Megan lap She is the fisheries liaison for Sea Freeze.
It's a Rhode Island based commercial fishing company that owns
(01:46):
and operates five federally permitted commercial fishing vessels and two
shore side facilities. And when we were told you know,
Megan knows a lot about this, I found this really
interesting because I'm like, man, it goes beyond what has
happened to the marine life, what is happening to the
bats and the eagles on land? This could actually affect
(02:08):
our food supply. So, Megan, thank you so much for
agreeing to join us today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Absolutely so you we were just talking before this you
said you've now learned more about energy production than you
ever thought. You would tell us a little bit though, first,
about why you started to talk about this from the
fishing commercial fishing standpoint, because it really does affect fishing, correct,
it does.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It's going to affect fishing in multiple ways, very very
scary ways.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So on the East Coast right now, there.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Is a conglomerate lease area that's the biggest lease area
in the world south of Rhode Island, at South Rhode
Island in Massachusetts. It's larger than the state of Rhode
Island itself. It's fourteen hundred square miles. They want to put, yeah,
they want to put a wind turbine that's you know,
between eight hundred and fifty and over one thousand feet
high every one mile apart in every direction. The blades
(03:01):
on these are longer than a football field. They're much
much bigger than the ones that are on land. And so,
and this is only one conglomerate lease area right now.
There's over two million acres of the East Coast least.
There's more leasing that's occurring there.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How much did you just say, it's.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Like two point three million acres right now? That's already leased,
a lot of it is approved, there's more getting leased,
more areas that are being identified for lease. Then you
have states like the state of New York saying, well,
we want to look at putting more leases in a
giant area that's like from the coast to New Jersey
to off the coast of Cape Cod all the way
(03:41):
out to the eez line. You know, massive, massive areas
and so basically for commercial fishing. So I represent, like
you said, a commercial fishing company. I've been dealing with
the offshore wind for this company for about ten years now.
For us, one of the major issues is commercial fishing.
Like we're the seventh most regulated industry in the nation. Okay,
(04:03):
We're more regulated than oil and gas extraction, more regulated
than pharmaceutical manufacturing. We have a tremendous amount of regulations
and a lot of those are spatial, so depending, and
they all interact. Each species of fish has its own
fisheries management plan with like a whole plethora of rags
that are around that fish. So when you have permits
for multiple types of fish, you just the ocean is
(04:24):
not a big place for us. It's a very small place,
even though it looks big to most people. So as
the wind farms and the wind leases began to get sighted,
they were all over our commercial fishing grounds and there
was no deconfliction upfront, right. And so my vessels are
traw vessels, which means that they send out quarter mile
(04:47):
or more up to a half mile sometimes of wire
and there's a net at the end of that and
that net herds fish into the net and that's how
we catch our product.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So you can't toe that in a way, and so
at the base of.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Each because you can't get through, or because legally you can't,
like when you say you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Why operationally it's extremely, extremely dangerous. There's scour protection at
the base of each turbine, acres of rocks that they
put down to protect it from from the tide moving
the sand around it. You know, like when you stand
at the edge of the water and like the waves
go in and out, it like digs a hole behind
your foot. Yeah, that's what happens to a turbine.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So just like our piers have big rocks built around
the pier.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is so this is what this is what goes
around the bottoms of the turbines, and so that will
destroy net as well as all the cables that are
between them. There's cables, plus they have armoring over some
of the cables, and so you know, our gear if
it gets caught on something and there's a heavy tide
or there's any kind of you know, wind or whatever,
(05:52):
things happen very fast in that situation and you could,
in worst case scenario, capsize the boat. So if you
look to Europe where they have these things, you know,
I have you know, documents for wind developers saying trall
vessels should steer clear of cables even if they're buried
because they may become unburied, and steer clear of the
infrastructure because if a traller snags on a subsea cable
(06:16):
or infrastructure, it can cause quote serious risk of loss
of life. So that means this is not safe. Nobody's
going to be able to navigate it. Also, you don't
tow for fish, you don't trawl for fish or try
to herd them in straight lines. You're going across contours
of the ocean floor and things like that that you know,
(06:37):
it's not economically viable to do this in a wind farm,
and it's also not safe.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
How much does this affect our supply of fish.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's going to affect it tremendously if all of the
stuff goes in the way that they are planning it
now and as they're planning in the future, like you
look at if they're successful, if the federal government, the
current federal government, and the states that are pushing this
are successful in what they want, I don't think you're
going to see a commercial fishing industry on the East
Coast in like twenty years.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We're the oldest.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Industry in America and we are now looking at complete
annihilation from our federal government. Who is the only reason
that these wind farms are are financially viable is because
they get a thirty percent investible tax credit upfront.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So if your wind.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Farm costs three billion dollars to build, because these are
all on the bees, right, these are billions of dollars
to build the things, thirty percent of that you get
as an investible tax credit from the United States government.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's the only reason that they do this.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So the companies that are receiving these in certain cases
are companies win Ulsher wind companies that are owned by
foreign governments.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, not just foreign companies foreign governments.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So you have Orstead, which is majority owned by the
Danish government, so they're going to get investible tax credits
to put Americans.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Out of business.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And then you have equinor which is like sixty seven
percent owned by the Norwegian government, again getting these tax
credits to put Americans out of business in our own country.
So the other thing that makes it not feasible for
us to go in there is like our boats work
in all kinds of weather. We work three hundred and
sixty five days a year in all kinds of weather.
(08:17):
You know, the Northeast is not exactly a hospitable climate.
The North Atlantic is not a hospitable climate, right, And
when you are you know, operating or transitting in the fog,
in the dark, and inclement weather, in blizzards, in like
you name it, you need radar that works because radar
is your eyes. Wind farms interfere with radar, all types
(08:39):
of radar, but including marine radar. So going even transitting
through a wind farm is not going.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
To be safe.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Now, what about airplanes, I mean, how do you even
if you if you have radar issues, aren't you talking?
I mean, this is affecting the marine life this has
to be affecting ships and airplanes.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh, absolutely, So air terminal radar is impacted if there's
a giant wind farm that is sited on the entryway
to JFK Airport, just saying if a plane goes over it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay, let's pretend nine to eleven.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Scenario, right if the train, if the plane's transponder is
turned off and the plane flies over the wind farm,
you lose it. So if there was like a hijacking
of a plane and they turned the planes transponder off
and that plane went over a wind farm, you lose it.
On air traffic control radar surveillance radar, we have long
range air surveillance radars on the east coast and around
(09:35):
the perimeter of the nation called ARSR four radars.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I have a letter.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That was a response to a congressional inquiry that says
from the Undersecretary of Defense saying, yeah, there's a problem,
but we haven't fixed it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So there's no solution to this. Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So we have foreign countries purchasing space on our border,
which is our ocean. That then effects radar to the
point where you could have enemy planes coming across and
have no idea correct.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And the country Japan has actually been currently they've been
shutting down certain offshore when leases off Japan because it
interferes with their air defense radar and it's a problem.
And the UK, which has wind farms, has had a
problem with this for many years and back in the day,
and like I'm going to say twenty nine, twenty twelve,
somewhere around in there, they thought that they had a solution.
(10:29):
They thought that they had like some magical radar that
was going to solve the problem. So based on like modeling,
So what they said was, okay, if you are a
wind developer and you're going to build a wind farm
and it's going to be in the line of sight
of one of our air defense radars, you have to
install one of these magical radars there so that you know,
the effects are mitigated.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So they go ahead and they build a wind farm.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
In twenty eighteen, after its built, the UK Ministry Defense
comes back and goes, yeah, that didn't work. There's problems,
but it was too late, like the wind farms in.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Too bad oop. See.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So now the the UK Ministry of Defense, yes, the
UK Ministry Defense has now they're giving prize money we're
gonna give prize money to whoever can solve the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So like they have grants now and they have like
their you know, windmill like radar interference like blah blah
blah that they're trying to solve the problem. But they
still have no problems or no solutions. And they have
the windmills in Sore.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You're having a seventh grade science fair for national security correct.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yes, and so here on the on the in the
United States, this is like not a secret, but most
people have not known about this, and I've read a
lot of documents about this over the years. And we
have a wind turbine, a wind Turbine Radar Interference Mitigation
Working Group, the w TRIT. This is FAA, do, d Doe, Noah,
(11:55):
who else.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I think DHS is like an observer on this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Anyways, they've had an moun play to fix the problem
by twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Since like twenty.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Sixteen or something or twenty fourteen something like that, Okay,
for ten years, they've done nothing. They don't have a solution.
But steel's go into the water right now, like they're
pile driving off of Rhode Island right now. Okay, so
this is all a big problem. I have raised the
coast to the marine radar interference issue to the Coast
Guard literally for years, years and years and years, and
(12:27):
I asked them, I said, look, you guys did a
modeling study back in like two thousand and six for
a project called.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Cape Wind that was supposed to be off of.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Cape Cod that never materialized, but they had modeled radar interference.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I said, well, can you do that for.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
This giant fourteen hundred square mile area because it's more turbines,
but they're also bigger and the size makes the difference.
So can you do a modeling study so we can
look and see what this looks like and then like
have a discussion like adults.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
They said no.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They had multiple times where I submitted official comments to
the government docket and their response was, we are unaware
of any studies that confirm or deny the presence of
radar interference because of winterbnes. And I was like, you
did a modeling study, Like you can't even say that
you guys did it right, So this is total denial.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So eventually, but is this because there's so much money
in this industry that they just shut up about it?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
It's because there's so much political pressure in Washington. And
I will say in twenty eighteen, I went.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
To Coastguard headquarters. I went to Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And I went Coastguard Headquarters and I spoke with the
Chief of the Office of Navigation Systems, and I started
throwing radar.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Studies down on the desk and I was like, what
are you guys doing, Like who's in charge?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And the Captain's eyes about popped out of her head
and she said, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like, I had no idea about this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And she said, oh, they were only going to be
two hundred and forty feet high. I was like, no,
they're going to be eight hundred plus feet high. Now
they're actually higher than the Chrysler building.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Let's take a quick commercial break. Will continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, this is giving me
chills because we are hearing I just want to kind
of package this all together, because as we are seeing
all of these celebrities and the bill Gates of the
world telling us, you know, we're not going to have
(14:19):
cattle farms anymore, We're not going to have dairy farms anymore.
We're going to start eating bugs. Our other. I think
people have always kind of felt like, oh, we'll have
that Mediterranean diet because well, we a will still get
fish and squid. That's not we're suddenly I mean, not
only is our national security at risk, but your national
security is there's nothing more risky than not being able
(14:40):
to feed the people of your country, which China can
tell you right now because they're already experiencing this problem.
So now we are creating this problem in a country
that has vast amounts of land to grow crops, vast
amount of land to have dairy and cattle farms, and
vast amount of ocean that we by choice destroying for
(15:02):
an industry that doesn't actually replace the energy that it
says right right.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And so and I'll get to the fish in a minute,
because that point tutor is so huge, But I'll say this.
After I left the Coast Guard headquarters, I was with
a couple other people. We said, so, what should our
next steps steps be? And they said, we literally don't
know what to tell you. This is literally the first
we've heard of this. And I'm like, why is it
my job to tell you what's happening? Like your job's actually,
(15:29):
like maritime security what is going on? So now fast
forward in twenty twenty two, the National Academy of Sciences
did a study on marine radar interference as a result
of winterbines. They used every study I had submitted to
the Coast Guard. Every single thing I ever said to
the coast Guard was confirmed, and they quoted me in
part of their report. But there's still no solution. Okay,
(15:51):
but we are still going in the water. So that's
that's kind of that world and why we can't fish
in there. The second part, as you mentioned, is the
eco logical devastation. You don't take fourteen hundred square miles
of pristine food producing ocean bottom and turn it into
an industrial power plant. And part of the issue here,
(16:13):
so there's multiple issues. Okay, you're changing the ocean floor, right,
it was all sand. Now it's this footprint of thousands
of turbines and wires and rocks and all.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Right. These structures emit low frequency sound. A lot of
fish species either communicate with low frequency sound, so it's
going to mask them.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Whales also, but also the.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Low frequency sound for squid, which is something that my company,
you know, targets and harvests is low frequency sound has
been shown to cause lesions in the ear cavity as
a squid basically kill them. So that is going to
be emanating from these structures that are the size of
(16:57):
the Chrysler building for thirty years as they're on. And
they're also going to be emitting electromagnetic frequencies and electromagnetic fields,
and the magnetic fields, from what I understand, can never
be kind of dampened by burying the cables, and fish
use the Earth's magnetic field to migrate.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So when you start creating.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Cables, thousands of miles of high voltage cables that are
emitting magnetic frequencies all over the Atlantic Ocean, that is
going to have a major, major impact. And a lot
of people are like, well, we don't know what impact
is going to have, and it's like that's a real,
real problem.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And I was got a.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Wind farm compensation fund for the fishing industry meeting yesterday
and they said, well, if you take the little you know,
you know, it's a pittance of money. If you take
the money that we're giving you, you have to sign
a waiver that holds us free from any environmental damage
in the future.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
That's crazy because they're supposed to be protecting the environment right.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Right, and they say this fund doesn't compensate for environmental damage.
But if you take the money that we're going to
try to give you, you can't sue us or hold
us liable in the future for any environmental damage, like
if you're fisheries collapse. So that's a major major problem.
And what we can what I can say is that
you know, some people are like, well, you know, you
(18:22):
can't prove whatever, right, And I'm like, I've looked at
a lot of science, Okay. I deal with with fishery
science a lot in my in my job. And you know,
there's also the one operating wind farm that we have
in this country before all these new ones, was a
Block Island wind farm. Right it's right off Rhode Island.
(18:42):
I can see the turbines from the beach. So besides
the fact that a lot of the times they're broken,
or the roads have stress fractures, or they're fiberglasting the
blades again, or they're just not turning. Aside from that,
as soon as they turned them on and the electricity
started flowing through that ex cable, it killed the entire
(19:03):
lobster fishery in the area.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
The lobsters don't go there anymore. The fishermen who used.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
To fish for lobsters around the Black Island wind farms
do not fish there anymore. I know other fishermen who
set gillnets and they harvest other species, and they used
to set their gill nets along the cable route because
it was a traditional migratory path of the species that
they were targeting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The fish won't cross the cable, and.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I think this is not I mean, really, when you
think about this, logically, if you have your school, you
don't want your school right next to the power plant.
Everybody is afraid of the power plant. I think it
was very key that you called these power plants because
that's what they are. And when I was here in
Michigan traveling around the state, we're shutting down nuclear plants.
We're trying to figure out how to get more wind
(19:47):
farms and more solar farms, and people are like, well,
we could have these many power plants go up everywhere.
That's what these are. And the fact that people don't
understand you're electrifying the ocean, the dangers of the amount
of voltage that is going through these lines, and what
does what if something goes wrong there and then you
(20:08):
have this this changing what the ocean actually is just
blows my mind because all of these environmental groups that
have said this has to happen is supposedly to protect
the environment. So if you know you are causing these problems,
and I know people will say, oh, well, show me
(20:29):
the science, but let's be honest. We know this is
happening to squid. We see what's happening the whales. I
think is the biggest shock to people because it's so visible,
having a giant whale wash ashore and having had seventy
wash ashore in just a few months. I think that
to people is like, oh gosh, is this really a problem.
But come on, you are changing the floor of the ocean.
(20:52):
You are running massive cables through We know that it's
getting hotter, we know that it's running vibrations through the earth.
Why are why where are all those groups that are
protecting the animals?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
They all got paid, you know, Like I just read
a press release yesterday the Mystic Aquarium and their senior
scientists and how they have an entire you know display
for orsted, the multiple the Danish government owned wind company
because they're partners now in science, in science about how
wind is going to impact marine life. Right meanwhile, the
(21:28):
Mystic Aquarium people are doing the whale autopsies on some
of the whales of wash up in this area. So
you know, no conflict, no interest. That's how this entire
thing has gone. And to your point about like food,
you know, I look at it and I'm like, they're
literally what they want to do is turn the entire
ocean into an industrial plant, the footprint of which is astronomical,
(21:51):
Like they want over three thousand turbines for the East coast,
and like the square mileage of what you're talking there
means that like there's no ocean left. Like by the
time you go through every state, every East Coast state,
they all are like setting these wind goals and I
you know, today, I want X amount of gigawatts and
(22:12):
you want more.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And then this state wants more.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And like if you were to actually extrapolate that out
into footprint of what it would take, like for how
many windmills would that would require, you're not going to
have any ocean left. And people, you know, I think,
like you said, the whole whale issue has started to
open up people's mind to the impact.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Of this stuff on marine life.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Like two of the permitted projects off the coast of
Rhode Island, National Marine Fishery Service actually said in consultation
documents with other federal agencies, this project is expected to
have population level impacts on Atlantic cod.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But see, it's out of sight, out of mind until
the whales thing happened.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Till the whales thing happened. And you know what, It's
funny because people have asked me about the whales thing
like this for a long time, and I've said, look,
here's the science, okay, because people are like, no, it's misinformation.
The Department of Energy has a website it says misinformation
about whales, right, So okay, whatever. Here's what Noah's permits say.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
They expect that.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
The wind farm surveys will temporarily deafen whales. They expect
that wind farm construction will permanently deafen whales.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And when you start doing that, like the New York
shipping lanes, and then a bunch of whales wash up,
kind of like, oh, a deaf whale is a dead whale.
That's a phrase that has been coined for years, so
I'm kind of like, but now there's no correlation. And
then my favorite part is that they said, well, but
we don't have any information on how much sound deafens
Baileen whales, which are humpback whales, miney whales, fin whales,
(23:48):
say whales, North Atlantic right, miss they're all the whales
that you're washing up.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Most of them are humpbacks.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And it's like, so, but the kind of whales that
are all dying are the ones that you say you
expect to be deafened, but you really don't know how
much sound actually deafens them. But there's definitely no correlation none,
you know, And I'm like, that's not rational.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. First of all, this is not
replacing fossil fuels. Let's be honest about this. This is
not replacing it. It's not reliable. Everybody knows it's not
reliable for the same reasons you just said. The wind
doesn't blow, the turbines don't move, you have a lubrication problem,
(24:29):
You've got suddenly a turbine leaking. This is not reliable energy.
It's not just in time. Energy. It's energy that has
to relies on all kinds of outside environmental factors to
actually become energy, And that in and of itself is
ridiculous to think that we would put our entire ocean
in danger because we might get energy on a good day.
(24:51):
But besides that, I want to point out that you've
got China that is building coal powered plant after coal
powered plant. I mean, we literally, my seventh grader just
studied this in social studies. Why is there so much
pollution in China? What is the highest death rate? It's
from heart disease and pulmonary disease, respiratory diseases because of
(25:13):
the fact that they run so much pollution through their cities.
But they are running everything on coal, so they will
be the only source of seafood. So suddenly off the
coast of China where we know they are just dumping
all of their crap in the ocean, they don't care.
They won't sign any type of climate accord. They're like,
(25:36):
give me a break. They give the United States and
every other country the middle finger, Like dude, We're just
going to keep running. We're going to run as hard
as we can. We're going to get as much energy
as we can from coal. We're not going to try
to do anything environmentally friendly. So now people are people
aware that they're going to be getting fish that have
been sucking on all kinds of pollution.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Give me a break, well, And you know, I think
that this is a really important point to raise, is
you know, the idea even of national food security. You know,
I tell people during COVID, when nobody could get protein
on their shelves, I saw lines of cars and people
down here in this fishing port lined up at the
blobster boat docks to buy lobsters, and lined up at
(26:17):
the fish market places to buy fish because we had food.
And when people couldn't get food, they came here because
they know we've produced food. And so I tell people
all the time, I'm like, you know, ten years ago,
if somebody had said, hey, the whole world is going
to go on lockdown because of this pandemic, people would
have said you were out of your mind, right, So
I say this all the time. What if COVID had
been food born? What if this country had to shut
(26:40):
all its borders to food imports?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Could we feed ourselves?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And if we could, how are you going to get
it to everybody, right, and just think about that, because
think of what happened during COVID. Now, there were still
shipments going on at that time. Food production was not
shut down. We operated all through COVID because we're an
essential industry, we're food production. But just imagine if it
(27:03):
was the borders are closed to all food imports.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
What would this country do?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And I'll tell you, I say it, you know to
every person that I know is like running for election
or you know, Look, we need a food security bill
in this country. We need to protect our oceans, we
need to protect our farms, especially small ones, and we
need to protect all of our local food production because
if we don't, someday there's going to be something that
(27:28):
nobody ever could have seen coming.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And where are we going to be?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Absolutely, but this is okay? So why why is it
that we don't hear this? And I really believe that
it is because, I mean, you talked about the amount
of money that it costs to put one of these
in and yet how much comes from the government. I mean, Michigan,
we see the same thing with electric vehicles. It's like, oh,
don't buy a gas powered vehicle. You can get all
of this government money to buy a vehicle that's ten
(27:55):
times the cost that's not going to run in the winter.
You know, give me a break. None of this makes sense,
But the money is so big that nobody's willing to
come out and talk about the negative effects. I mean,
all of these industries, the industries that are the most
powerful are the ones that are supported by government. They
also support elected officials, They support people to get elected,
(28:16):
and once they take that money, they will not work
to say this is bad. Whether it's the pharmaceutical industry
or the climate industry. And right now looking at this
climate industry, the thing that bothers me about this is
this is not a solution. And I don't think there's
any reason to not be honest about that that. Yeah,
(28:37):
we'd like to have alternatives for energy. There's nobody saying no,
there can't be alternatives for energy. The problem is when
the alternative actually hurts the environment more, and that is
people and animals. You have got to be honest. But
why can't you be honest.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Right Well, like you said, it's because politicians are bought,
you know, organizations are bought, and the only people speaking
out what the truth is are you know, the impacted entities.
And you know, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
be on this podcast because this is an opportunity for
truth to get out there. You know. But like just
(29:17):
the media in general has been just totally captured by
renewable energy. You know, like there's no facts out there.
You start putting facts out there, now you're a spreader
of misinformation. And I think, you know, there's there is
a lack of you know, factual data available to people,
you know that's easy to get, you know, so they
see a lot of a lot of rhetoric. And I think,
(29:39):
like you said, though, you know, most people who can
kind of just follow the money trail in a very
basic way.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's going on well.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And I think that there's also this like like kind
of nostalgic feel about a windmill, like, oh, it's just
using the air. It's totally safe. This is so innocent
that air is somehow forcing power, And they really haven't
thought about the fact that this is truly a power plant.
And you are talking about high voltage power going through
all these lines. I mean we're talking two point three
(30:07):
million miles. I mean, you make a great point when
you say this is going to be our Our entire
ocean will be just a source of a big power plant.
And the thing is, it's crazy because it's not hydroelectric power.
It's not like the movement of the waves. You are
creating a new power entity out there. You are driving
(30:28):
this into the ocean floor. You are, I mean, this
is murdering the animals out there. And it's so bizarre
to me because anybody who is on the side of
taking care of the environment would hear the truth about
this and say, what, wait a minute, We're not going
to do that. I mean outside of like even if
you can't get with the whole food security, national security,
(30:50):
if you don't understand those things or that seems like
a distant concern, just the idea of changing these these
the sea life out there and killing the sea life
out there. Why don't you have what where are all
the people that used to go throw red paint on
(31:10):
fur codes, like, why aren't they out there on the
edge of the ocean saying stop this right right?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And you know what's very interesting as i've you know,
come to know people who are fighting for the ocean
in this respect, it's amazing the diversity of political backgrounds
of people that I've met, I will say that as
soon as you will never find a person who you
who supported wind at one time and then found out
the facts, who ever went back to supporting.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Wind, they always go then they don't support it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
And so, you know, I talk with people who you know,
are from conservative backgrounds, who are from progressive backgrounds, who
are from all like areas of the political spectrum, who
once they found out about what the facts were, they.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Were like no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And that I think that that speaks volumes because it's
not a part is an issue.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
People will try to.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Make it seem like it is, but it's kind of
like you said, like it's common sense facts. Like once
you find out what the actual facts are, people are like,
no way, I can't support that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That's what That's what piqued my interest, And honestly, had
I not run for office, I would have never explored
it or understood it because from like I said, from
the standpoint of having farmers come to me and saying, man,
these companies are coming in and they're you know, they're
going to these mom and pop farms, and you know,
these folks are retiring, they want to pass it on
(32:37):
to their kids. They've got this big company come in
and offer them more money than they would ever get
to run the farm. Money, more money than they get
to run the farm for thirty years, you know, and
then they sell their farm the neighboring farm. There's so
many complications that come along with this, because it's not
just that now that farm is covered in windmills, it changes.
It's another vibration issue for the animal on the farm
(33:00):
next door. It's killing the bats, like I said, the eagles.
You've got animals, rodents running wild in the fields. But
also our farms are interconnected, and so the neighboring farm
is renting, like everybody's leasing the same equipment, right, So
we have these companies that come in and they come
around with the equipment, and everybody harvests around the same time.
Suddenly you don't have that co op anymore. Again, another
(33:23):
disaster that is hurting our food supply. And so as
I was hearing this and people are like, actually, these windmills,
they're kind of a disaster for us. Then we suddenly,
just in the last few months, see the Michigan legislature
take away local controls. So now that local farmer can't
even go to his community and say, hey, we can't
(33:46):
accept this company coming in and taking over our farm land.
And again a lot of times it's a foreign company.
And then you have so people. I think it's funny
because in Michigan people are like, oh, this is just
the rich people with the view of the who don't
want these windmills there. That is not I mean, sure
there's probably some of those people too, That is not
(34:07):
what we're talking about. And I think that is a
way of deflecting the truth here. And when we talk
about sure, when we talk about misinformation, I mean, why
can't we get facts out there? But to your point,
that was what led me to go, Man, I really
want to dig into this. And then as I started
seeing this stuff with the whales, I'm like, gosh, maybe
it's outside of just Michigan. Maybe it's outside of just land.
(34:28):
Maybe these things are genuinely a problem. And having this
massive power plant that sits out in a field or
sits out in the ocean and it just has all
this energy coursing through these lines, maybe this is not
exactly the best solution. And so I just want to
tell you I appreciate what you do and thank you
(34:50):
for sharing these facts with us, because I just don't
think there's many people telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, no there's not, and I appreciate the opportunity to
be on. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Absolutely, Megan Lap, you are awesome. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you likewise, and thank you all for joining us
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutor diisonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there,
or you can always head over to the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast to a
(35:21):
blessing
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we are talking
again about these wind turbines that are going into the ocean.
I know we've been talking about what this means from
an esthetic viewpoint and what this means for the whales,
and I think that for all of you out here
who listen regularly. One of the reasons we got really
(00:21):
interested in this on the Tutor Dixon Podcast is because
we're seeing lawmakers in Michigan say they are changing local
control in our state, and so these wind turbines will
be able to go anywhere the government wants. So anywhere
the Capitol decides, Hey, we want to put this on
the farm next door, or we want to put these
(00:44):
windmills in Lake Michigan, or we want to put a
solar farm on the farm and next to where we're
getting our food. That can happen and your local community
can do nothing about it. Well, some of the local
folks came to us and said, we don't even really
know what this means. And so as we say started
digging into this, it's like, well, these solar farms, they
(01:04):
may not even be completely without leaching of chemicals into
the ground. And you know, you've got snow, you've got rain,
You've got all of this stuff, sun hitting and heating
these these rare earth minerals up and all the chemicals
that go into making these solar panels are dangerous. Well
then we said, well, what's going on with these wind turbines?
(01:26):
So we decided we would do some research. And it's
funny when you start to do research, you get connected
to some pretty awesome people that know a heck of
a lot more than you can find out in the
short period of time. And so we were introduced to
Megan lap She is the fisheries liaison for Sea Freeze.
It's a Rhode Island based commercial fishing company that owns
(01:46):
and operates five federally permitted commercial fishing vessels and two
shore side facilities. And when we were told you know,
Megan knows a lot about this, I found this really
interesting because I'm like, man, it goes beyond what has
happened to the marine life, what is happening to the
bats and the eagles on land? This could actually affect
(02:08):
our food supply. So, Megan, thank you so much for
agreeing to join us today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Absolutely so you we were just talking before this you
said you've now learned more about energy production than you
ever thought. You would tell us a little bit though, first,
about why you started to talk about this from the
fishing commercial fishing standpoint, because it really does affect fishing, correct,
it does.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It's going to affect fishing in multiple ways, very very
scary ways.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So on the East Coast right now, there.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Is a conglomerate lease area that's the biggest lease area
in the world south of Rhode Island, at South Rhode
Island in Massachusetts. It's larger than the state of Rhode
Island itself. It's fourteen hundred square miles. They want to put, yeah,
they want to put a wind turbine that's you know,
between eight hundred and fifty and over one thousand feet
high every one mile apart in every direction. The blades
(03:01):
on these are longer than a football field. They're much
much bigger than the ones that are on land. And so,
and this is only one conglomerate lease area right now.
There's over two million acres of the East Coast least.
There's more leasing that's occurring there.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How much did you just say, it's.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Like two point three million acres right now? That's already leased,
a lot of it is approved, there's more getting leased,
more areas that are being identified for lease. Then you
have states like the state of New York saying, well,
we want to look at putting more leases in a
giant area that's like from the coast to New Jersey
to off the coast of Cape Cod all the way
(03:41):
out to the eez line. You know, massive, massive areas
and so basically for commercial fishing. So I represent, like
you said, a commercial fishing company. I've been dealing with
the offshore wind for this company for about ten years now.
For us, one of the major issues is commercial fishing.
Like we're the seventh most regulated industry in the nation. Okay,
(04:03):
We're more regulated than oil and gas extraction, more regulated
than pharmaceutical manufacturing. We have a tremendous amount of regulations
and a lot of those are spatial, so depending, and
they all interact. Each species of fish has its own
fisheries management plan with like a whole plethora of rags
that are around that fish. So when you have permits
for multiple types of fish, you just the ocean is
(04:24):
not a big place for us. It's a very small place,
even though it looks big to most people. So as
the wind farms and the wind leases began to get sighted,
they were all over our commercial fishing grounds and there
was no deconfliction upfront, right. And so my vessels are
traw vessels, which means that they send out quarter mile
(04:47):
or more up to a half mile sometimes of wire
and there's a net at the end of that and
that net herds fish into the net and that's how
we catch our product.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So you can't toe that in a way, and so
at the base of.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Each because you can't get through, or because legally you can't,
like when you say you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Why operationally it's extremely, extremely dangerous. There's scour protection at
the base of each turbine, acres of rocks that they
put down to protect it from from the tide moving
the sand around it. You know, like when you stand
at the edge of the water and like the waves
go in and out, it like digs a hole behind
your foot. Yeah, that's what happens to a turbine.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So just like our piers have big rocks built around
the pier.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is so this is what this is what goes
around the bottoms of the turbines, and so that will
destroy net as well as all the cables that are
between them. There's cables, plus they have armoring over some
of the cables, and so you know, our gear if
it gets caught on something and there's a heavy tide
or there's any kind of you know, wind or whatever,
(05:52):
things happen very fast in that situation and you could,
in worst case scenario, capsize the boat. So if you
look to Europe where they have these things, you know,
I have you know, documents for wind developers saying trall
vessels should steer clear of cables even if they're buried
because they may become unburied, and steer clear of the
infrastructure because if a traller snags on a subsea cable
(06:16):
or infrastructure, it can cause quote serious risk of loss
of life. So that means this is not safe. Nobody's
going to be able to navigate it. Also, you don't
tow for fish, you don't trawl for fish or try
to herd them in straight lines. You're going across contours
of the ocean floor and things like that that you know,
(06:37):
it's not economically viable to do this in a wind farm,
and it's also not safe.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
How much does this affect our supply of fish.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's going to affect it tremendously if all of the
stuff goes in the way that they are planning it
now and as they're planning in the future, like you
look at if they're successful, if the federal government, the
current federal government, and the states that are pushing this
are successful in what they want, I don't think you're
going to see a commercial fishing industry on the East
Coast in like twenty years.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We're the oldest.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Industry in America and we are now looking at complete
annihilation from our federal government. Who is the only reason
that these wind farms are are financially viable is because
they get a thirty percent investible tax credit upfront.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So if your wind.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Farm costs three billion dollars to build, because these are
all on the bees, right, these are billions of dollars
to build the things, thirty percent of that you get
as an investible tax credit from the United States government.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's the only reason that they do this.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So the companies that are receiving these in certain cases
are companies win Ulsher wind companies that are owned by
foreign governments.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, not just foreign companies foreign governments.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So you have Orstead, which is majority owned by the
Danish government, so they're going to get investible tax credits
to put Americans.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Out of business.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And then you have equinor which is like sixty seven
percent owned by the Norwegian government, again getting these tax
credits to put Americans out of business in our own country.
So the other thing that makes it not feasible for
us to go in there is like our boats work
in all kinds of weather. We work three hundred and
sixty five days a year in all kinds of weather.
(08:17):
You know, the Northeast is not exactly a hospitable climate.
The North Atlantic is not a hospitable climate, right, And
when you are you know, operating or transitting in the fog,
in the dark, and inclement weather, in blizzards, in like
you name it, you need radar that works because radar
is your eyes. Wind farms interfere with radar, all types
(08:39):
of radar, but including marine radar. So going even transitting
through a wind farm is not going.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
To be safe.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Now, what about airplanes, I mean, how do you even
if you if you have radar issues, aren't you talking?
I mean, this is affecting the marine life this has
to be affecting ships and airplanes.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh, absolutely, So air terminal radar is impacted if there's
a giant wind farm that is sited on the entryway
to JFK Airport, just saying if a plane goes over it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay, let's pretend nine to eleven.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Scenario, right if the train, if the plane's transponder is
turned off and the plane flies over the wind farm,
you lose it. So if there was like a hijacking
of a plane and they turned the planes transponder off
and that plane went over a wind farm, you lose it.
On air traffic control radar surveillance radar, we have long
range air surveillance radars on the east coast and around
(09:35):
the perimeter of the nation called ARSR four radars.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I have a letter.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That was a response to a congressional inquiry that says
from the Undersecretary of Defense saying, yeah, there's a problem,
but we haven't fixed it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So there's no solution to this. Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So we have foreign countries purchasing space on our border,
which is our ocean. That then effects radar to the
point where you could have enemy planes coming across and
have no idea correct.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And the country Japan has actually been currently they've been
shutting down certain offshore when leases off Japan because it
interferes with their air defense radar and it's a problem.
And the UK, which has wind farms, has had a
problem with this for many years and back in the day,
and like I'm going to say twenty nine, twenty twelve,
somewhere around in there, they thought that they had a solution.
(10:29):
They thought that they had like some magical radar that
was going to solve the problem. So based on like modeling,
So what they said was, okay, if you are a
wind developer and you're going to build a wind farm
and it's going to be in the line of sight
of one of our air defense radars, you have to
install one of these magical radars there so that you know,
the effects are mitigated.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So they go ahead and they build a wind farm.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
In twenty eighteen, after its built, the UK Ministry Defense
comes back and goes, yeah, that didn't work. There's problems,
but it was too late, like the wind farms in.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Too bad oop. See.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So now the the UK Ministry of Defense, yes, the
UK Ministry Defense has now they're giving prize money we're
gonna give prize money to whoever can solve the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So like they have grants now and they have like
their you know, windmill like radar interference like blah blah
blah that they're trying to solve the problem. But they
still have no problems or no solutions. And they have
the windmills in Sore.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You're having a seventh grade science fair for national security correct.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yes, and so here on the on the in the
United States, this is like not a secret, but most
people have not known about this, and I've read a
lot of documents about this over the years. And we
have a wind turbine, a wind Turbine Radar Interference Mitigation
Working Group, the w TRIT. This is FAA, do, d Doe, Noah,
(11:55):
who else.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I think DHS is like an observer on this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Anyways, they've had an moun play to fix the problem
by twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Since like twenty.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Sixteen or something or twenty fourteen something like that, Okay,
for ten years, they've done nothing. They don't have a solution.
But steel's go into the water right now, like they're
pile driving off of Rhode Island right now. Okay, so
this is all a big problem. I have raised the
coast to the marine radar interference issue to the Coast
Guard literally for years, years and years and years, and
(12:27):
I asked them, I said, look, you guys did a
modeling study back in like two thousand and six for
a project called.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Cape Wind that was supposed to be off of.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Cape Cod that never materialized, but they had modeled radar interference.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I said, well, can you do that for.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
This giant fourteen hundred square mile area because it's more turbines,
but they're also bigger and the size makes the difference.
So can you do a modeling study so we can
look and see what this looks like and then like
have a discussion like adults.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
They said no.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They had multiple times where I submitted official comments to
the government docket and their response was, we are unaware
of any studies that confirm or deny the presence of
radar interference because of winterbnes. And I was like, you
did a modeling study, Like you can't even say that
you guys did it right, So this is total denial.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So eventually, but is this because there's so much money
in this industry that they just shut up about it?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
It's because there's so much political pressure in Washington. And
I will say in twenty eighteen, I went.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
To Coastguard headquarters. I went to Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And I went Coastguard Headquarters and I spoke with the
Chief of the Office of Navigation Systems, and I started
throwing radar.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Studies down on the desk and I was like, what
are you guys doing, Like who's in charge?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And the Captain's eyes about popped out of her head
and she said, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like, I had no idea about this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And she said, oh, they were only going to be
two hundred and forty feet high. I was like, no,
they're going to be eight hundred plus feet high. Now
they're actually higher than the Chrysler building.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Let's take a quick commercial break. Will continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, this is giving me
chills because we are hearing I just want to kind
of package this all together, because as we are seeing
all of these celebrities and the bill Gates of the
world telling us, you know, we're not going to have
(14:19):
cattle farms anymore, We're not going to have dairy farms anymore.
We're going to start eating bugs. Our other. I think
people have always kind of felt like, oh, we'll have
that Mediterranean diet because well, we a will still get
fish and squid. That's not we're suddenly I mean, not
only is our national security at risk, but your national
security is there's nothing more risky than not being able
(14:40):
to feed the people of your country, which China can
tell you right now because they're already experiencing this problem.
So now we are creating this problem in a country
that has vast amounts of land to grow crops, vast
amount of land to have dairy and cattle farms, and
vast amount of ocean that we by choice destroying for
(15:02):
an industry that doesn't actually replace the energy that it
says right right.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And so and I'll get to the fish in a minute,
because that point tutor is so huge, But I'll say this.
After I left the Coast Guard headquarters, I was with
a couple other people. We said, so, what should our
next steps steps be? And they said, we literally don't
know what to tell you. This is literally the first
we've heard of this. And I'm like, why is it
my job to tell you what's happening? Like your job's actually,
(15:29):
like maritime security what is going on? So now fast
forward in twenty twenty two, the National Academy of Sciences
did a study on marine radar interference as a result
of winterbines. They used every study I had submitted to
the Coast Guard. Every single thing I ever said to
the coast Guard was confirmed, and they quoted me in
part of their report. But there's still no solution. Okay,
(15:51):
but we are still going in the water. So that's
that's kind of that world and why we can't fish
in there. The second part, as you mentioned, is the
eco logical devastation. You don't take fourteen hundred square miles
of pristine food producing ocean bottom and turn it into
an industrial power plant. And part of the issue here,
(16:13):
so there's multiple issues. Okay, you're changing the ocean floor, right,
it was all sand. Now it's this footprint of thousands
of turbines and wires and rocks and all.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Right. These structures emit low frequency sound. A lot of
fish species either communicate with low frequency sound, so it's
going to mask them.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Whales also, but also the.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Low frequency sound for squid, which is something that my company,
you know, targets and harvests is low frequency sound has
been shown to cause lesions in the ear cavity as
a squid basically kill them. So that is going to
be emanating from these structures that are the size of
(16:57):
the Chrysler building for thirty years as they're on. And
they're also going to be emitting electromagnetic frequencies and electromagnetic fields,
and the magnetic fields, from what I understand, can never
be kind of dampened by burying the cables, and fish
use the Earth's magnetic field to migrate.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So when you start creating.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Cables, thousands of miles of high voltage cables that are
emitting magnetic frequencies all over the Atlantic Ocean, that is
going to have a major, major impact. And a lot
of people are like, well, we don't know what impact
is going to have, and it's like that's a real,
real problem.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And I was got a.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Wind farm compensation fund for the fishing industry meeting yesterday
and they said, well, if you take the little you know,
you know, it's a pittance of money. If you take
the money that we're giving you, you have to sign
a waiver that holds us free from any environmental damage
in the future.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
That's crazy because they're supposed to be protecting the environment right.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Right, and they say this fund doesn't compensate for environmental damage.
But if you take the money that we're going to
try to give you, you can't sue us or hold
us liable in the future for any environmental damage, like
if you're fisheries collapse. So that's a major major problem.
And what we can what I can say is that
you know, some people are like, well, you know, you
(18:22):
can't prove whatever, right, And I'm like, I've looked at
a lot of science, Okay. I deal with with fishery
science a lot in my in my job. And you know,
there's also the one operating wind farm that we have
in this country before all these new ones, was a
Block Island wind farm. Right it's right off Rhode Island.
(18:42):
I can see the turbines from the beach. So besides
the fact that a lot of the times they're broken,
or the roads have stress fractures, or they're fiberglasting the
blades again, or they're just not turning. Aside from that,
as soon as they turned them on and the electricity
started flowing through that ex cable, it killed the entire
(19:03):
lobster fishery in the area.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
The lobsters don't go there anymore. The fishermen who used.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
To fish for lobsters around the Black Island wind farms
do not fish there anymore. I know other fishermen who
set gillnets and they harvest other species, and they used
to set their gill nets along the cable route because
it was a traditional migratory path of the species that
they were targeting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The fish won't cross the cable, and.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I think this is not I mean, really, when you
think about this, logically, if you have your school, you
don't want your school right next to the power plant.
Everybody is afraid of the power plant. I think it
was very key that you called these power plants because
that's what they are. And when I was here in
Michigan traveling around the state, we're shutting down nuclear plants.
We're trying to figure out how to get more wind
(19:47):
farms and more solar farms, and people are like, well,
we could have these many power plants go up everywhere.
That's what these are. And the fact that people don't
understand you're electrifying the ocean, the dangers of the amount
of voltage that is going through these lines, and what
does what if something goes wrong there and then you
(20:08):
have this this changing what the ocean actually is just
blows my mind because all of these environmental groups that
have said this has to happen is supposedly to protect
the environment. So if you know you are causing these problems,
and I know people will say, oh, well, show me
(20:29):
the science, but let's be honest. We know this is
happening to squid. We see what's happening the whales. I
think is the biggest shock to people because it's so visible,
having a giant whale wash ashore and having had seventy
wash ashore in just a few months. I think that
to people is like, oh gosh, is this really a problem.
But come on, you are changing the floor of the ocean.
(20:52):
You are running massive cables through We know that it's
getting hotter, we know that it's running vibrations through the earth.
Why are why where are all those groups that are
protecting the animals?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
They all got paid, you know, Like I just read
a press release yesterday the Mystic Aquarium and their senior
scientists and how they have an entire you know display
for orsted, the multiple the Danish government owned wind company
because they're partners now in science, in science about how
wind is going to impact marine life. Right meanwhile, the
(21:28):
Mystic Aquarium people are doing the whale autopsies on some
of the whales of wash up in this area. So
you know, no conflict, no interest. That's how this entire
thing has gone. And to your point about like food,
you know, I look at it and I'm like, they're
literally what they want to do is turn the entire
ocean into an industrial plant, the footprint of which is astronomical,
(21:51):
Like they want over three thousand turbines for the East coast,
and like the square mileage of what you're talking there
means that like there's no ocean left. Like by the
time you go through every state, every East Coast state,
they all are like setting these wind goals and I
you know, today, I want X amount of gigawatts and
(22:12):
you want more.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And then this state wants more.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And like if you were to actually extrapolate that out
into footprint of what it would take, like for how
many windmills would that would require, you're not going to
have any ocean left. And people, you know, I think,
like you said, the whole whale issue has started to
open up people's mind to the impact.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Of this stuff on marine life.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Like two of the permitted projects off the coast of
Rhode Island, National Marine Fishery Service actually said in consultation
documents with other federal agencies, this project is expected to
have population level impacts on Atlantic cod.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But see, it's out of sight, out of mind until
the whales thing happened.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Till the whales thing happened. And you know what, It's
funny because people have asked me about the whales thing
like this for a long time, and I've said, look,
here's the science, okay, because people are like, no, it's misinformation.
The Department of Energy has a website it says misinformation
about whales, right, So okay, whatever. Here's what Noah's permits say.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
They expect that.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
The wind farm surveys will temporarily deafen whales. They expect
that wind farm construction will permanently deafen whales.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And when you start doing that, like the New York
shipping lanes, and then a bunch of whales wash up,
kind of like, oh, a deaf whale is a dead whale.
That's a phrase that has been coined for years, so
I'm kind of like, but now there's no correlation. And
then my favorite part is that they said, well, but
we don't have any information on how much sound deafens
Baileen whales, which are humpback whales, miney whales, fin whales,
(23:48):
say whales, North Atlantic right, miss they're all the whales
that you're washing up.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Most of them are humpbacks.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And it's like, so, but the kind of whales that
are all dying are the ones that you say you
expect to be deafened, but you really don't know how
much sound actually deafens them. But there's definitely no correlation none,
you know, And I'm like, that's not rational.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. First of all, this is not
replacing fossil fuels. Let's be honest about this. This is
not replacing it. It's not reliable. Everybody knows it's not
reliable for the same reasons you just said. The wind
doesn't blow, the turbines don't move, you have a lubrication problem,
(24:29):
You've got suddenly a turbine leaking. This is not reliable energy.
It's not just in time. Energy. It's energy that has
to relies on all kinds of outside environmental factors to
actually become energy, And that in and of itself is
ridiculous to think that we would put our entire ocean
in danger because we might get energy on a good day.
(24:51):
But besides that, I want to point out that you've
got China that is building coal powered plant after coal
powered plant. I mean, we literally, my seventh grader just
studied this in social studies. Why is there so much
pollution in China? What is the highest death rate? It's
from heart disease and pulmonary disease, respiratory diseases because of
(25:13):
the fact that they run so much pollution through their cities.
But they are running everything on coal, so they will
be the only source of seafood. So suddenly off the
coast of China where we know they are just dumping
all of their crap in the ocean, they don't care.
They won't sign any type of climate accord. They're like,
(25:36):
give me a break. They give the United States and
every other country the middle finger, Like dude, We're just
going to keep running. We're going to run as hard
as we can. We're going to get as much energy
as we can from coal. We're not going to try
to do anything environmentally friendly. So now people are people
aware that they're going to be getting fish that have
been sucking on all kinds of pollution.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Give me a break, well, And you know, I think
that this is a really important point to raise, is
you know, the idea even of national food security. You know,
I tell people during COVID, when nobody could get protein
on their shelves, I saw lines of cars and people
down here in this fishing port lined up at the
blobster boat docks to buy lobsters, and lined up at
(26:17):
the fish market places to buy fish because we had food.
And when people couldn't get food, they came here because
they know we've produced food. And so I tell people
all the time, I'm like, you know, ten years ago,
if somebody had said, hey, the whole world is going
to go on lockdown because of this pandemic, people would
have said you were out of your mind, right, So
I say this all the time. What if COVID had
been food born? What if this country had to shut
(26:40):
all its borders to food imports?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Could we feed ourselves?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And if we could, how are you going to get
it to everybody, right, and just think about that, because
think of what happened during COVID. Now, there were still
shipments going on at that time. Food production was not
shut down. We operated all through COVID because we're an
essential industry, we're food production. But just imagine if it
(27:03):
was the borders are closed to all food imports.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
What would this country do?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And I'll tell you, I say it, you know to
every person that I know is like running for election
or you know, Look, we need a food security bill
in this country. We need to protect our oceans, we
need to protect our farms, especially small ones, and we
need to protect all of our local food production because
if we don't, someday there's going to be something that
(27:28):
nobody ever could have seen coming.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And where are we going to be?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Absolutely, but this is okay? So why why is it
that we don't hear this? And I really believe that
it is because, I mean, you talked about the amount
of money that it costs to put one of these
in and yet how much comes from the government. I mean, Michigan,
we see the same thing with electric vehicles. It's like, oh,
don't buy a gas powered vehicle. You can get all
of this government money to buy a vehicle that's ten
(27:55):
times the cost that's not going to run in the winter.
You know, give me a break. None of this makes sense,
But the money is so big that nobody's willing to
come out and talk about the negative effects. I mean,
all of these industries, the industries that are the most
powerful are the ones that are supported by government. They
also support elected officials, They support people to get elected,
(28:16):
and once they take that money, they will not work
to say this is bad. Whether it's the pharmaceutical industry
or the climate industry. And right now looking at this
climate industry, the thing that bothers me about this is
this is not a solution. And I don't think there's
any reason to not be honest about that that. Yeah,
(28:37):
we'd like to have alternatives for energy. There's nobody saying no,
there can't be alternatives for energy. The problem is when
the alternative actually hurts the environment more, and that is
people and animals. You have got to be honest. But
why can't you be honest.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Right Well, like you said, it's because politicians are bought,
you know, organizations are bought, and the only people speaking
out what the truth is are you know, the impacted entities.
And you know, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
be on this podcast because this is an opportunity for
truth to get out there. You know. But like just
(29:17):
the media in general has been just totally captured by
renewable energy. You know, like there's no facts out there.
You start putting facts out there, now you're a spreader
of misinformation. And I think, you know, there's there is
a lack of you know, factual data available to people,
you know that's easy to get, you know, so they
see a lot of a lot of rhetoric. And I think,
(29:39):
like you said, though, you know, most people who can
kind of just follow the money trail in a very
basic way.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's going on well.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And I think that there's also this like like kind
of nostalgic feel about a windmill, like, oh, it's just
using the air. It's totally safe. This is so innocent
that air is somehow forcing power, And they really haven't
thought about the fact that this is truly a power plant.
And you are talking about high voltage power going through
all these lines. I mean we're talking two point three
(30:07):
million miles. I mean, you make a great point when
you say this is going to be our Our entire
ocean will be just a source of a big power plant.
And the thing is, it's crazy because it's not hydroelectric power.
It's not like the movement of the waves. You are
creating a new power entity out there. You are driving
(30:28):
this into the ocean floor. You are, I mean, this
is murdering the animals out there. And it's so bizarre
to me because anybody who is on the side of
taking care of the environment would hear the truth about
this and say, what, wait a minute, We're not going
to do that. I mean outside of like even if
you can't get with the whole food security, national security,
(30:50):
if you don't understand those things or that seems like
a distant concern, just the idea of changing these these
the sea life out there and killing the sea life
out there. Why don't you have what where are all
the people that used to go throw red paint on
(31:10):
fur codes, like, why aren't they out there on the
edge of the ocean saying stop this right right?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And you know what's very interesting as i've you know,
come to know people who are fighting for the ocean
in this respect, it's amazing the diversity of political backgrounds
of people that I've met, I will say that as
soon as you will never find a person who you
who supported wind at one time and then found out
the facts, who ever went back to supporting.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Wind, they always go then they don't support it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
And so, you know, I talk with people who you know,
are from conservative backgrounds, who are from progressive backgrounds, who
are from all like areas of the political spectrum, who
once they found out about what the facts were, they.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Were like no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And that I think that that speaks volumes because it's
not a part is an issue.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
People will try to.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Make it seem like it is, but it's kind of
like you said, like it's common sense facts. Like once
you find out what the actual facts are, people are like,
no way, I can't support that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That's what That's what piqued my interest, And honestly, had
I not run for office, I would have never explored
it or understood it because from like I said, from
the standpoint of having farmers come to me and saying, man,
these companies are coming in and they're you know, they're
going to these mom and pop farms, and you know,
these folks are retiring, they want to pass it on
(32:37):
to their kids. They've got this big company come in
and offer them more money than they would ever get
to run the farm. Money, more money than they get
to run the farm for thirty years, you know, and
then they sell their farm the neighboring farm. There's so
many complications that come along with this, because it's not
just that now that farm is covered in windmills, it changes.
It's another vibration issue for the animal on the farm
(33:00):
next door. It's killing the bats, like I said, the eagles.
You've got animals, rodents running wild in the fields. But
also our farms are interconnected, and so the neighboring farm
is renting, like everybody's leasing the same equipment, right, So
we have these companies that come in and they come
around with the equipment, and everybody harvests around the same time.
Suddenly you don't have that co op anymore. Again, another
(33:23):
disaster that is hurting our food supply. And so as
I was hearing this and people are like, actually, these windmills,
they're kind of a disaster for us. Then we suddenly,
just in the last few months, see the Michigan legislature
take away local controls. So now that local farmer can't
even go to his community and say, hey, we can't
(33:46):
accept this company coming in and taking over our farm land.
And again a lot of times it's a foreign company.
And then you have so people. I think it's funny
because in Michigan people are like, oh, this is just
the rich people with the view of the who don't
want these windmills there. That is not I mean, sure
there's probably some of those people too, That is not
(34:07):
what we're talking about. And I think that is a
way of deflecting the truth here. And when we talk
about sure, when we talk about misinformation, I mean, why
can't we get facts out there? But to your point,
that was what led me to go, Man, I really
want to dig into this. And then as I started
seeing this stuff with the whales, I'm like, gosh, maybe
it's outside of just Michigan. Maybe it's outside of just land.
(34:28):
Maybe these things are genuinely a problem. And having this
massive power plant that sits out in a field or
sits out in the ocean and it just has all
this energy coursing through these lines, maybe this is not
exactly the best solution. And so I just want to
tell you I appreciate what you do and thank you
(34:50):
for sharing these facts with us, because I just don't
think there's many people telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, no there's not, and I appreciate the opportunity to
be on. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Absolutely, Megan Lap, you are awesome. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you likewise, and thank you all for joining us
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutor diisonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there,
or you can always head over to the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast to a
(35:21):
blessing
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