Dr. Robert Malone, is the Inventor of mRNA vaccines and RNA as a drug, and he is outraged by the government's decision to mandate people into a one size fits all medicinal solution. Malone is now working on a new media initiative that is just launching.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, hour two Sean Hannity Show, toll free, our
(00:02):
numbers eight hundred and nine for one, Shawn, if you
want to be a part of the program. It's an
amazing thing, isn't it that we You know, here we
are a year later last year at this time, heading
into a presidential election, and now with three hundred percent
higher in terms of COVID positivity cases. And meanwhile we've
got three vaccines. We've got now Joe Biden for the
(00:25):
first time, what last week or a week and a
half ago, mentions monoclonal antibodies. You know, it's a year ago.
Donald Trump had used regeneron as part of the therapeutic
that got him well very quickly. I'm not a doctor.
I'm not going to play one on radio and TV,
and I'm not going to give him my whole spiel.
But I'm fascinated with science. I believe in science. I
(00:48):
believe in vaccination science. But I'm not your doctor. I
know nothing about your medical history, your current medical condition,
and I urge everyone to take it seriously and talk
to you doctor. He lost nearly seven hundred thousand people.
I don't want my audience dying. I don't want anybody dying.
I don't care if you hate me, I don't want
you dying anyway. And so I was reading the Epic
(01:09):
Times last week, and sure enough they interviewed a guy.
I don't know why I had not heard of him before,
because I'm following this daily. His name is doctor Robert Malone.
It turns out he is the inventor of the technology
of mRNA vaccines and RNA as a drug. In other words,
the technology that led to the FISA Maderna vaccines a
(01:33):
little different than the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. And I'll
let him explain the difference because he joins us now, sir,
welcome to the program. Thank you for being Willis. Thank
you for the opportunity to speak to you in your audience.
The first question, doctor, is am I doing the right
thing by telling people to take it seriously. Take you,
do your research, learn as much as you can be informed,
(01:56):
take into account your unique medical history, your current medical condition,
and please talk to your doctor and then make the
right decision based on that conversation. Is that the right advice?
Because I see all these people in Washington that never
went to medical school, and all these people on TV
that never went to medical school with one size fits
all medicine, and I am a problem with that. You're
(02:17):
dead on, and thank you for saying it. It's precisely
the thing that I've been trying to say. I'm not
anti vax. I've been a vaccinologist for thirty years, and
as you say kindly, I did play a key role
in inventing the technology platform for these and I've done
many other things in my career, but I believe firmly
(02:38):
in ethics and bioethics and in ensuring that we have
safe and effective products. And it's always been the case
that vaccines have been stratified for their for deciding whether
or not to recommend based on age, and this is
clearly a disease of the elderly neal piece. Um, So you're,
(03:02):
as far as I'm concerned, You're messaging to your audience
is pitch perfect. Well. I appreciate it because I'm I
get the crappy out of me doctor every day, and
I don't know if you can you know, you know,
I actually am fascinated with medicine. UM. I did an
hour special with doctor A doctor's name is doctor Rodriguez
(03:24):
and m Yu lang Gone and he did the first
successful face and hand double hand transplant. UM. I have
two friends of mine that a brain surgeons. I've actually
been in an operating room watching brain surgery. I'm fascinated
by it and I'm fascinated by science. Can you explain
to this audience, because I don't even know the answer
the difference between mRNA technology that you played a big
(03:46):
part in discovering versus say, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine,
which is more historically how they did it. Um, the
Maderna Fizer vaccines would be this new technology mRNA. Can
you explain it. You've got something a little bit wrong.
The J and J vaccine and I've heard this before.
The J and J vaccine is not a traditional vaccine technology. Okay,
(04:09):
All three of those are basically gene therapy technologies applied
to vaccines. The J and J technology has never been
rolled out at this level, and in fact, it stems
from the same laboratory at the same time that I
was in when I had the mr Anda discoveries, that
being the lab of Indraverma at the Salk Institute Molecular
(04:31):
Biology and Virology Lab. So I'm very familiar with both platforms,
but the ad vector tech uses a recombinant cold virus,
an adnovirus, which is a DNA virus, and it puts
the A gene from the stars kobe to the spike
protein gene into that virus and then they grow that
(04:54):
and that's what's used to infect you and produce this
star Kobe two spike protein. So in that case, your
cells are the actual manufacturing factory for the final vaccine product.
This is very different from a traditional vaccine. If you
think of say a flu vaccine, that is a purified
(05:18):
fragment of a vaccine that's manufactured using chicken eggs or
various other processes and then mixed with something that makes
it more reactive and then inject it as a purified
protein preparation into your arm. What these vaccines are more
like is attenuated vaccine. So that's a polio, smallpox, yellow fever.
(05:42):
Those are all attenuated, live attenuated vaccines. But in this case,
both the adnovector J and J and the Maderna or
fiser that's the mRNA employ methods for putting a foreign
genetic material into your cell, causing yourself to make the
foreign protein spike and then that is what generates steaming response.
(06:06):
Does that make sense? It does? But you know you're
way more you're way more sophisticated about this. Now. If
it's not making sense, I'm not doing it well. As
Richard Feinman said, if you can't make a complex topic understandable,
then you don't really understand it. No, but I do.
So let me ask it in these terms, because okay, people,
(06:29):
you know, we have seen the results and the efficacy.
You know, early efficacy was in the high nineties for
both Maderna and Fiser. I think it was seventy four
or seventy seven percent for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Now we've have the delta variant, then behind that the
Peruvian lambda variant, then this new move variant, and there's
(06:49):
a new variant. I don't know how to actually pronounce it.
It's our dot one or our point one or whatever
they're calling it that infected forty five residents. It seems
that the greatest fear now surrounds this one in a
Kentucky nursing home where all the patients were fully vaccinated
and they had every one of them was a breakout case. Yep,
So what what we're so, well, how how what's your question? How?
(07:15):
Let me focus on question is we didn't we knew
there'd be variations. I mean people study viruses their whole life.
Obviously you have spent devoted a long period of your
life doing this, where now we didn't expect breakout cases,
you know, and then people now are talking about boosters
and people talking about, well, what the efficacy of MADERNA
visor J and J is over time? And that the
(07:37):
efficacy lessons? Um, what is natural immunity? How does natural
immunity impact a decision to get the vaccine? That's that's
let's stop there. That's a good that's a goodly amount
of stuff just to talk about, right there. Sure, So, um,
let's start with efficacy. So there's um. The language you'll
(07:57):
hear is efficacy and effectiveness. Efficacy is something that's measured
in a clinical trial, which often will overrepresent how good
something is because of the controlled nature of doing a
clinical trial. Effectiveness is how good does it work in
the field in the real world. Okay, So those are
two keywords. And the efficacy that you're talking about from
(08:22):
these relatively modest, very brief, initial clinical trials that they
rushed was efficacy. You're citing the numbers for death and disease.
Protection against death and disease, that's different from protection against
infection or replication or spread. Okay, So it turns out
(08:44):
that even back in the day when we were dealing
with the original strains, that are the ones that are
matched to these vaccines, because now we got different viruses
basically that aren't matched to these current vaccines. But back
in the day, what they didn't disclose, you know, it
wasn't in the press, and you're no stranger to the
(09:07):
let's say legacy media, just basically regurgitating whatever pablum the
government gives them and the pharmaceutical companies give them. So
that's what we had. They just kind of regurgitated it
to us. They didn't ask questions, But in fact, the
ability of the vaccines to block infection was not anywhere
(09:28):
near ninety percent. Now what we have is evolved strains.
So this is you know, fundamental Darwinian evolution kind of stuff,
where you have selective pressure imposed by the vaccines and
no surprise, because you only have a single antigen as
single protein from the virus that's being produced in the
vaccinated no surprise that the virus is evolving to escape
(09:52):
that immune pressure caused by those vaccines. Now there's another
wrinkle to this in that generally we use vaccines before
we have a pandemic, right, that's how we need to
try to get them out. And that's a different situation.
Vaccinating into an ongoing pandemic when there's a whole lot
of virus circulating is a whole different kettlefish. And what
(10:16):
happens then you really do have a setup for development
of these escape mutes, which is what you're seeing. The
virus is evolving to escape the vaccines, and it will
continue to do so, particularly if we have a universal
vaccination policy. What we've got I like to say, is
the situation. I don't know if you have kids, sir,
(10:38):
but I okay, so yeah, minor now I'm married and
after their lives. But I always like to say, if
you give a three year old a hammer, everything comes
nail and they seem to think, yeah, you get it right, right,
these fundamental things. You know, this is everybody can understand this.
(10:59):
You know, you give but a cool new tech that's
really powerful, and they think that they can just drive
all their problems home with that tech, but it's not
that simple. And what we're at risk for with this
universal policy is we're going to continue to generate escape
mutants and they will converge on escape mutants that this
(11:20):
is happening. We can see it, and if you follow
the genetics, it's kind of complex stuff, but it's for
sure happening. It will drive towards some common set of
variants that's really good at replicating and escaping the vaccine.
And then what happens, Oh, the people that really needed
the vaccine the most, the elderly, the obese, the immunosuppressed,
(11:43):
they're no longer going to have first line protection. They're
going to be back where they were before, only with
viruses that are even more highly replication competent. Because that's
the other thing that's happened is these new variants replicate
at much higher levels whether you're vaccinated or not, so
if you get infected, if you're vaccinated. Here's the paradox
(12:05):
that is just a lot of people are waking up
to this. Okay, there's all this talk that it's the
unvaccinated that are creating risk for the vaccinated. Now that
just doesn't make sense when you think it through if
these vaccines are worth the grain as salt another word.
You're saying, if you got the vaccine, you should be
(12:25):
protected regardless of what. Do you have a logical right? Yeah? Right? Okay,
So how how does it make any sense at all
that the unvaccinated are the ones that are the problem.
In fact, what's happening is that the vaccinated are when
they are infected and these we now know what these
new strains that they're the protection against infection is something
(12:47):
like forty to sixty percent. Okay, so it's really not
that great. And if you do get infected, your chance
of having severe disease is lower. Well, that sounds good, right,
that's a good thing. That's what the science has showed us,
You're right, and risk of hospitalization and death as Here's
the wrinkle in that, okay, is that what that means
(13:10):
is the folks that are vaccinated are still getting infected.
They're replicating virus in their bodies at the same or
higher levels than they were before. They're shedding virus at
the same or higher levels than they were before. Remember,
at the beginning the outbreak, when we talked about super spreaders,
we've created a whole huge bunch of super spreaders. So
(13:31):
the truth is that's the unvaccinated that are at risk
from the vaccinated. Does that make sense It doesn't. It
doesn't because they're also at risk of just getting it also,
especially the more highly contagious variants. Now, if you're on vaccine,
yes it's true. But the difference is that now we
have folks walking around who think they're perfectly healthy, but
(13:52):
in fact are making a lot of virus. And we
have a lot of those people doing that. So that's
the difference. You look at it sideways different from what
you're being told. You know, it should be that the
vaccinated are protected, they're not at risk from the unvaccinated.
That should be the way it is. All Right, we
gotta take a break. We'll come back. We have more
with doctor Robert Malone. He played a very key role
(14:13):
in inventing the technology behind mRNA vaccines, and it's a
fascinating discussion. I go back to my admonition though, that
I make every day is please do your own research,
talk to your own doctor, but please take it seriously.
I don't want anybody in this audience ever dying. Ever.
(14:34):
And then we'll talk about therapeutics on the other side,
regeneron monoclonal antibodies, and we got a lot of questions
for doctor Malone, it's you know, this is way out
of my arena. So I'm learning like you are. At
twenty five till the top of the hour, told free
it's eight hundred nine four one Sean, if you want
to be a part of the program, we continue our discussion.
We're joined by doctor Robert Malone. You've heard of the
(14:57):
FISA vaccine, the Maderna vaccine. He happens to have played
one of the key roles, if not the key role,
in inventing the technology that led to the mRNA vaccines
like Maderna and Feiser. And we're talking about, you know,
all things involving COVID again, information and again I urge
(15:18):
you to talk to your own doctors about what the
right decision is. Doctor if I might just ask a
simple question, because obviously this is your technology that they've used.
You helped invent this, which means you're a pretty smart guy,
and you're telling us things about these variants. It gets
a little chilling to me to hear some of what
(15:39):
you're saying. I don't know why we haven't heard more
from you up to this point. But my question is this,
So for people, you support science obviously, and you support
the vaccination science, and your breakthrough led to these vaccines.
So I know it's a general question and you can't
(16:00):
answer specific questions of individuals with unique medical histories and
you don't know anything about their conditions, But generally, how
do you feel about the vaccines based on the technology
you played a pivotal role in discovering. I think they've
been rushed. I think that's pretty clear. Two key things
we needed more information about the adverse events the risks
(16:21):
of the vaccine, and the other was that the database
structure that the CDC had used to capture these adverse
events was broken. It wasn't working. I was really controversial
at the time, but both things have now been proven true.
So in terms of my point of view, these were rushed,
(16:43):
and unfortunately we're now dealing with the consequences of things
that weren't detected when they should have been. But I
personally my position is that based on the current data,
and I've written two op eds in the Washington Times
with Peter Navarro about this, based on the current data,
(17:03):
it makes sense to vaccinate people sixty five and older,
morbidly obese, and people with immunity deficiencies. These are the
specific groups that the FDA Verbeck's Committee and endorsed for
the third JAB. Okay, and would you add to call
morbidities pre existing conditions that might be applicable. Yeah, that's
(17:27):
why I said high risk conditions. Understand Now, what just
to dive in down that rabbit hole for a moment.
What the FDA just did was they authorized for the
third JAB for those specific people, but then also extended
it to anybody who has frequent contact with the public.
(17:48):
So that's where the FDA's at. That's not where I'm at.
I suggesting that the data show that the risk benefit
ratio for elderly, morbidly obese, immunity deficiency patients and others
that are very high risk, it's still a good bet
to take the vaccine for everybody else. In my opinion
(18:08):
and that of many other colleagues that are out in
the front lines actually treating patients in their homes now,
instead of waiting for them to go to hospital, we
should go ahead and make available the variety of drugs,
largely anti inflammatories. Not perfect, but that are being used
by physicians all over the world to keep people out
(18:32):
of the hospital and keep them from dying and keep
them from developing. These are the steroids that are often
prescribed when people test positive. Steroids are one solution, and
that's part of the arbimentarium, but frankly so is hydroxychloricalin
and many others. So there's a And by the way,
(18:52):
this is a simple thing that your audience can do,
and it's good for all of us. Go to your
dock and get your vitamin D levels checked and during
good chance that they're going to be too low, and
if they are, you ought to take supplements because the
data are pretty clear that having your vitamin D levels
up at the right level can go a long way
to preventing you from getting this disease. Let me go
(19:16):
and ask this question. So. I have two friends of
mine that live in Atlanta. They were unvaccinated, one seventy
four his wife is I think sixty eight, and within
twenty four hours of their diagnosis, they were at Emory
University Hospital getting an infusion of regenera on the monoclonal antibodies.
I have another friend of mine who lives you know,
(19:38):
ten minutes from my house. And he's fully vaccinated, and
he got a home test. First, he had the Abbot
test and it turned out to be accurate, and he
got it confirmed at a lab. He had a breakthrough case.
He had been fully vaccinated for quite a while. Within
twenty four hours he got the monoclonal antibodies regenera on
infusion and his case and he's you know, it was
(20:00):
a little overweight and um um. He had the best
ten days of his life. He sent his family down
to Florida so they wouldn't contract contract the virus from him,
and he went fishing every day and was sending me,
you know, pictures of forty pounds stripe past that he
was catching. Uh. Enjoying his free is what he called
his COVID vacation because he felt great after getting the infusion. Um. Yeah.
(20:25):
And then there's Rogan. Right. Then there's poor Joe Rogan.
And by the way, why am I like the only
one saying thank god he's okay. I don't care what
your politics are, doctor, I mean this with all my heart.
I don't want anybody dying from this thing. I really
don't know is a hero all over the world. I
just spent two weeks in Europe m touring relating to
(20:47):
COVID and and people people thought Joe Rogan um everywhere,
He's got amazing reach. But if your point is um uh,
And I'm going to mention in the name Ron de Santis,
who went out hard in favor of these antibody cocktails
(21:09):
and has specifically called out that this was what they
used with the potus, And he has really quenched the
outbreak to a large extent in terms of death and
disease in Florida because he has aggressively made available these
antibody cocktails. Well, now, from what I've been able to
(21:30):
gather from my sources, and we don't have a shortage
of monoclonal antibodies. Not quite the contrary. I mean, we're
sharing it with countries all around the world. I agree.
And yet and yet, paradoxically, now the federal government is
going to restrict availability of these monoclonals in Florida. Now
wrap your head around that. Well, let me ask this
(21:52):
question then, whether you're unvaccinated or vaccinated like my friends
and Georgia were not vaccinated. My friend in New York
was vaccinated. And they come down with COVID. The next
question is what is the next course of action I personally,
and I've interviewed doctors graduating from Harvard and Yale, and
we've had, you know, people on the front lines, unlike
(22:14):
doctor Fauci, I'm not particularly fond of at this point.
And you know, remember doctor Fauci doesn't treat patients. It's
kind of important to know doctor Fauchi. That is an
interesting little point. And those emails were pretty revealing, and
the intercept pages were more revealing. But that's a different
story for a different day. But I want to give
good information to my audience. Wait until the first thing
(22:35):
book comes out. I'm sorry, wait until JFK. Junior's book
comes out about mister Fauci, you will open your eyes
really Okay, So my question to you is, now, I'm
not a doctor. I'm not going to play one on radio.
So I'm asking you. You know, you played the big
role in inventing the technology for these vaccines, which is
(22:57):
pretty fascinating to me. You're obviously a brilliant man. And
my question is, so you have a breakthrough case or
you're unvaccinated, you contract COVID, and and what's what's the
next bit of advice you'd give people. My advice would be,
immediately go talk to your doctor about monoclonal antibodies. That's
(23:18):
what my first bit of information would be asked. I
think that's I think that's great advice. There's also many
other complementary drugs and the agents that you can take.
But you, you know, given that you're responsible broadcaster and journalist,
(23:39):
I think that's a superposition to take. Nobody in in
the FDA or in the fact checker community can hit
you on that one quick break more with doctor Robert Malone.
He played an instrumental role in the invention of the
mRNA technology that led to the vaccines of Faiza Maderna.
(24:15):
All Right, we continue. Doctor Robert Malone played an integral part,
a key role in the invention of the mr NA
technology that led to the Madonna Faiza vaccines. Now, let
me ask you about these new variants here. And there's
one in particular in Kentucky. I'm not sure how the
pronouncing is R dot one or R one um. It
infected forty five residents and employees. And there's one particular
(24:39):
facility in Kentucky. There's a there's a great there's a
great article in Forbes on that written by Bill Hazeltine.
It's really comprehensive. Um. So that's a good one to
look at. UM. And then there is a CDC report
from about two months ago that's easy to find by
just searching the CDC MMWR journal. UM. And uh, well,
(25:02):
let me quote the Forbes article for you scientists by
the name of William Hazelton. And maybe you know, maybe
you don't art sciences at a Harvard big shot. Okay,
R one is a variant. Is the variant to watch.
He said, it's established a foothold in both Japan and
(25:23):
the US, and he added it features several unique mutations
that could give it advantages in transmission, replication, and immune suppression,
and one mutation named E four eighty four K and
I have no idea what I'm saying here. Just stay
with me, doctor, located in the spike protein of the virus,
gives it quote an increased resistance to antibodies generated by
(25:47):
the vaccine. And our one shares an additional mutation D
six one four G with all other variants that that
have overtaken the original alpha strain, which increases infectiousness. So
I'm giving you a lot of information. It has it
has another it has another mutation that increases its replication
(26:07):
in humans. I didn't want to show off. I would
have brought that up to you're you're you are on it,
my friend. So what does it mean though, because I
really don't understand it? So, um, this the current vaccine products,
and there's new ones coming that are second generation products,
but the current vaccine products all rely on the spike protein.
(26:29):
And the spike protein was the focus because it was
known that um UH, that protein would provide pretty good
protection and so it was a safe bet. And the
problem with that is that the antibodies that for the
B cell antibody based immunity UM in order for them
(26:50):
to be effective, there's a limited number of targets places
that they combine to on the spike protein to block
the ability of the virus to infect other cells and
neutralize the virus. And the thing is that those it's
kind it's really turned out to be complex. There's been
(27:10):
some fascinating silence done in the Joya Institute of Allergy
and Immunology by a large international team mapping all these
different domains and basically what BILL is pointing out is
that one of those domains is being mutated so that
the antibodies which normally would be able to bind there
(27:30):
aren't binding or aren't binding as efficiently the ones evoked
by the vaccine, because remember the vaccine is against the
original alpha strain, so it's no longer matched. This is
one of the big problems. The truth is that we're
vaccinating for yesterday's virus, okay, and so we're generating friends
of mine yell at me for getting a flu shot
every year, and half of my friends agree, half disagree,
(27:52):
and I know it's on average thirty to forty percent
effective because they guess what strain it's going to be.
So it's kind of it sounds a little similar to that, right. Well,
it's a good point, and in fact, there's even more
you're even more accurate in talking about flu. That's a
super analogy because for a number of reasons, many vaccinologists,
(28:15):
myself included, think that over vaccinating for flu is actually
not a good thing. One of the things that's kind
of a little bit worrisome about this, we're just going
to go ahead and give everybody a jab every six
month strategy is there's a thing called high zone tolerance
and another thing called original energenic sin. So those are
(28:37):
fancy immunology words, but what they equate to is that
more is not always better with vaccines. More vaccination, more
frequent vaccination can in some cases, actually make it so
that you're less able to mount an immune response against
the hythogen. I'm running out of time, unfortune, and I
rarely give a full hour of my program to anyone person.
(29:00):
But I mean, considering you're up to your eyeballs and
all of this, and you know, play the key role
in discovering the mr mRNA technology to build out the
the vaccines Maderna and Visa. I just think that, you know,
I want everybody to put this in the category of information.
Take it seriously. Talk to your doctor. Doctors look at
(29:22):
your unique medical history, your current condition, talk to your
doctor and make the make the right decision for you. Um,
and I just want everybody to be informed and smart
and safe and uh, you know obviously and now and
now I understand after all of this, why people spend
their entire lives studying one virus. It's crazy. It's crazy
(29:44):
to me, M But I appreciate you being on the program. Doctor, well,
I hope you'll come back again, and uh we you know,
you should really take a bow. I mean, you know,
for the people that you know you pointed out absolutely
need this vaccine. Sixty five CO morbidity is pretty existing conditions,
compromised immune systems. You know, you're very clear on it,
and I appreciate your forthrightness on it. I'm glad to
(30:07):
be on your program anytime, my friend. Thank you and
be good. All right, thank you, sir, Doctor Robert Malone. Fascinating.
Let's talk to you. Doctor. There's a lot to learn,
and every time I think I know something, I am
learning more. Quick break right back
All right, hour two Sean Hannity Show, toll free, our
(00:02):
numbers eight hundred and nine for one, Shawn, if you
want to be a part of the program. It's an
amazing thing, isn't it that we You know, here we
are a year later last year at this time, heading
into a presidential election, and now with three hundred percent
higher in terms of COVID positivity cases. And meanwhile we've
got three vaccines. We've got now Joe Biden for the
(00:25):
first time, what last week or a week and a
half ago, mentions monoclonal antibodies. You know, it's a year ago.
Donald Trump had used regeneron as part of the therapeutic
that got him well very quickly. I'm not a doctor.
I'm not going to play one on radio and TV,
and I'm not going to give him my whole spiel.
But I'm fascinated with science. I believe in science. I
(00:48):
believe in vaccination science. But I'm not your doctor. I
know nothing about your medical history, your current medical condition,
and I urge everyone to take it seriously and talk
to you doctor. He lost nearly seven hundred thousand people.
I don't want my audience dying. I don't want anybody dying.
I don't care if you hate me, I don't want
you dying anyway. And so I was reading the Epic
(01:09):
Times last week, and sure enough they interviewed a guy.
I don't know why I had not heard of him before,
because I'm following this daily. His name is doctor Robert Malone.
It turns out he is the inventor of the technology
of mRNA vaccines and RNA as a drug. In other words,
the technology that led to the FISA Maderna vaccines a
(01:33):
little different than the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. And I'll
let him explain the difference because he joins us now, sir,
welcome to the program. Thank you for being Willis. Thank
you for the opportunity to speak to you in your audience.
The first question, doctor, is am I doing the right
thing by telling people to take it seriously. Take you,
do your research, learn as much as you can be informed,
(01:56):
take into account your unique medical history, your current medical condition,
and please talk to your doctor and then make the
right decision based on that conversation. Is that the right advice?
Because I see all these people in Washington that never
went to medical school, and all these people on TV
that never went to medical school with one size fits
all medicine, and I am a problem with that. You're
(02:17):
dead on, and thank you for saying it. It's precisely
the thing that I've been trying to say. I'm not
anti vax. I've been a vaccinologist for thirty years, and
as you say kindly, I did play a key role
in inventing the technology platform for these and I've done
many other things in my career, but I believe firmly
(02:38):
in ethics and bioethics and in ensuring that we have
safe and effective products. And it's always been the case
that vaccines have been stratified for their for deciding whether
or not to recommend based on age, and this is
clearly a disease of the elderly neal piece. Um, So you're,
(03:02):
as far as I'm concerned, You're messaging to your audience
is pitch perfect. Well. I appreciate it because I'm I
get the crappy out of me doctor every day, and
I don't know if you can you know, you know,
I actually am fascinated with medicine. UM. I did an
hour special with doctor A doctor's name is doctor Rodriguez
(03:24):
and m Yu lang Gone and he did the first
successful face and hand double hand transplant. UM. I have
two friends of mine that a brain surgeons. I've actually
been in an operating room watching brain surgery. I'm fascinated
by it and I'm fascinated by science. Can you explain
to this audience, because I don't even know the answer
the difference between mRNA technology that you played a big
(03:46):
part in discovering versus say, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine,
which is more historically how they did it. Um, the
Maderna Fizer vaccines would be this new technology mRNA. Can
you explain it. You've got something a little bit wrong.
The J and J vaccine and I've heard this before.
The J and J vaccine is not a traditional vaccine technology. Okay,
(04:09):
All three of those are basically gene therapy technologies applied
to vaccines. The J and J technology has never been
rolled out at this level, and in fact, it stems
from the same laboratory at the same time that I
was in when I had the mr Anda discoveries, that
being the lab of Indraverma at the Salk Institute Molecular
(04:31):
Biology and Virology Lab. So I'm very familiar with both platforms,
but the ad vector tech uses a recombinant cold virus,
an adnovirus, which is a DNA virus, and it puts
the A gene from the stars kobe to the spike
protein gene into that virus and then they grow that
(04:54):
and that's what's used to infect you and produce this
star Kobe two spike protein. So in that case, your
cells are the actual manufacturing factory for the final vaccine product.
This is very different from a traditional vaccine. If you
think of say a flu vaccine, that is a purified
(05:18):
fragment of a vaccine that's manufactured using chicken eggs or
various other processes and then mixed with something that makes
it more reactive and then inject it as a purified
protein preparation into your arm. What these vaccines are more
like is attenuated vaccine. So that's a polio, smallpox, yellow fever.
(05:42):
Those are all attenuated, live attenuated vaccines. But in this case,
both the adnovector J and J and the Maderna or
fiser that's the mRNA employ methods for putting a foreign
genetic material into your cell, causing yourself to make the
foreign protein spike and then that is what generates steaming response.
(06:06):
Does that make sense? It does? But you know you're
way more you're way more sophisticated about this. Now. If
it's not making sense, I'm not doing it well. As
Richard Feinman said, if you can't make a complex topic understandable,
then you don't really understand it. No, but I do.
So let me ask it in these terms, because okay, people,
(06:29):
you know, we have seen the results and the efficacy.
You know, early efficacy was in the high nineties for
both Maderna and Fiser. I think it was seventy four
or seventy seven percent for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Now we've have the delta variant, then behind that the
Peruvian lambda variant, then this new move variant, and there's
(06:49):
a new variant. I don't know how to actually pronounce it.
It's our dot one or our point one or whatever
they're calling it that infected forty five residents. It seems
that the greatest fear now surrounds this one in a
Kentucky nursing home where all the patients were fully vaccinated
and they had every one of them was a breakout case. Yep,
So what what we're so, well, how how what's your question? How?
(07:15):
Let me focus on question is we didn't we knew
there'd be variations. I mean people study viruses their whole life.
Obviously you have spent devoted a long period of your
life doing this, where now we didn't expect breakout cases,
you know, and then people now are talking about boosters
and people talking about, well, what the efficacy of MADERNA
visor J and J is over time? And that the
(07:37):
efficacy lessons? Um, what is natural immunity? How does natural
immunity impact a decision to get the vaccine? That's that's
let's stop there. That's a good that's a goodly amount
of stuff just to talk about, right there. Sure, So, um,
let's start with efficacy. So there's um. The language you'll
(07:57):
hear is efficacy and effectiveness. Efficacy is something that's measured
in a clinical trial, which often will overrepresent how good
something is because of the controlled nature of doing a
clinical trial. Effectiveness is how good does it work in
the field in the real world. Okay, So those are
two keywords. And the efficacy that you're talking about from
(08:22):
these relatively modest, very brief, initial clinical trials that they
rushed was efficacy. You're citing the numbers for death and disease.
Protection against death and disease, that's different from protection against
infection or replication or spread. Okay, So it turns out
(08:44):
that even back in the day when we were dealing
with the original strains, that are the ones that are
matched to these vaccines, because now we got different viruses
basically that aren't matched to these current vaccines. But back
in the day, what they didn't disclose, you know, it
wasn't in the press, and you're no stranger to the
(09:07):
let's say legacy media, just basically regurgitating whatever pablum the
government gives them and the pharmaceutical companies give them. So
that's what we had. They just kind of regurgitated it
to us. They didn't ask questions, But in fact, the
ability of the vaccines to block infection was not anywhere
(09:28):
near ninety percent. Now what we have is evolved strains.
So this is you know, fundamental Darwinian evolution kind of stuff,
where you have selective pressure imposed by the vaccines and
no surprise, because you only have a single antigen as
single protein from the virus that's being produced in the
vaccinated no surprise that the virus is evolving to escape
(09:52):
that immune pressure caused by those vaccines. Now there's another
wrinkle to this in that generally we use vaccines before
we have a pandemic, right, that's how we need to
try to get them out. And that's a different situation.
Vaccinating into an ongoing pandemic when there's a whole lot
of virus circulating is a whole different kettlefish. And what
(10:16):
happens then you really do have a setup for development
of these escape mutes, which is what you're seeing. The
virus is evolving to escape the vaccines, and it will
continue to do so, particularly if we have a universal
vaccination policy. What we've got I like to say, is
the situation. I don't know if you have kids, sir,
(10:38):
but I okay, so yeah, minor now I'm married and
after their lives. But I always like to say, if
you give a three year old a hammer, everything comes
nail and they seem to think, yeah, you get it right, right,
these fundamental things. You know, this is everybody can understand this.
(10:59):
You know, you give but a cool new tech that's
really powerful, and they think that they can just drive
all their problems home with that tech, but it's not
that simple. And what we're at risk for with this
universal policy is we're going to continue to generate escape
mutants and they will converge on escape mutants that this
(11:20):
is happening. We can see it, and if you follow
the genetics, it's kind of complex stuff, but it's for
sure happening. It will drive towards some common set of
variants that's really good at replicating and escaping the vaccine.
And then what happens, Oh, the people that really needed
the vaccine the most, the elderly, the obese, the immunosuppressed,
(11:43):
they're no longer going to have first line protection. They're
going to be back where they were before, only with
viruses that are even more highly replication competent. Because that's
the other thing that's happened is these new variants replicate
at much higher levels whether you're vaccinated or not, so
if you get infected, if you're vaccinated. Here's the paradox
(12:05):
that is just a lot of people are waking up
to this. Okay, there's all this talk that it's the
unvaccinated that are creating risk for the vaccinated. Now that
just doesn't make sense when you think it through if
these vaccines are worth the grain as salt another word.
You're saying, if you got the vaccine, you should be
(12:25):
protected regardless of what. Do you have a logical right? Yeah? Right? Okay,
So how how does it make any sense at all
that the unvaccinated are the ones that are the problem.
In fact, what's happening is that the vaccinated are when
they are infected and these we now know what these
new strains that they're the protection against infection is something
(12:47):
like forty to sixty percent. Okay, so it's really not
that great. And if you do get infected, your chance
of having severe disease is lower. Well, that sounds good, right,
that's a good thing. That's what the science has showed us,
You're right, and risk of hospitalization and death as Here's
the wrinkle in that, okay, is that what that means
(13:10):
is the folks that are vaccinated are still getting infected.
They're replicating virus in their bodies at the same or
higher levels than they were before. They're shedding virus at
the same or higher levels than they were before. Remember,
at the beginning the outbreak, when we talked about super spreaders,
we've created a whole huge bunch of super spreaders. So
(13:31):
the truth is that's the unvaccinated that are at risk
from the vaccinated. Does that make sense It doesn't. It
doesn't because they're also at risk of just getting it also,
especially the more highly contagious variants. Now, if you're on vaccine,
yes it's true. But the difference is that now we
have folks walking around who think they're perfectly healthy, but
(13:52):
in fact are making a lot of virus. And we
have a lot of those people doing that. So that's
the difference. You look at it sideways different from what
you're being told. You know, it should be that the
vaccinated are protected, they're not at risk from the unvaccinated.
That should be the way it is. All Right, we
gotta take a break. We'll come back. We have more
with doctor Robert Malone. He played a very key role
(14:13):
in inventing the technology behind mRNA vaccines, and it's a
fascinating discussion. I go back to my admonition though, that
I make every day is please do your own research,
talk to your own doctor, but please take it seriously.
I don't want anybody in this audience ever dying. Ever.
(14:34):
And then we'll talk about therapeutics on the other side,
regeneron monoclonal antibodies, and we got a lot of questions
for doctor Malone, it's you know, this is way out
of my arena. So I'm learning like you are. At
twenty five till the top of the hour, told free
it's eight hundred nine four one Sean, if you want
to be a part of the program, we continue our discussion.
We're joined by doctor Robert Malone. You've heard of the
(14:57):
FISA vaccine, the Maderna vaccine. He happens to have played
one of the key roles, if not the key role,
in inventing the technology that led to the mRNA vaccines
like Maderna and Feiser. And we're talking about, you know,
all things involving COVID again, information and again I urge
(15:18):
you to talk to your own doctors about what the
right decision is. Doctor if I might just ask a
simple question, because obviously this is your technology that they've used.
You helped invent this, which means you're a pretty smart guy,
and you're telling us things about these variants. It gets
a little chilling to me to hear some of what
(15:39):
you're saying. I don't know why we haven't heard more
from you up to this point. But my question is this,
So for people, you support science obviously, and you support
the vaccination science, and your breakthrough led to these vaccines.
So I know it's a general question and you can't
(16:00):
answer specific questions of individuals with unique medical histories and
you don't know anything about their conditions, But generally, how
do you feel about the vaccines based on the technology
you played a pivotal role in discovering. I think they've
been rushed. I think that's pretty clear. Two key things
we needed more information about the adverse events the risks
(16:21):
of the vaccine, and the other was that the database
structure that the CDC had used to capture these adverse
events was broken. It wasn't working. I was really controversial
at the time, but both things have now been proven true.
So in terms of my point of view, these were rushed,
(16:43):
and unfortunately we're now dealing with the consequences of things
that weren't detected when they should have been. But I
personally my position is that based on the current data,
and I've written two op eds in the Washington Times
with Peter Navarro about this, based on the current data,
(17:03):
it makes sense to vaccinate people sixty five and older,
morbidly obese, and people with immunity deficiencies. These are the
specific groups that the FDA Verbeck's Committee and endorsed for
the third JAB. Okay, and would you add to call
morbidities pre existing conditions that might be applicable. Yeah, that's
(17:27):
why I said high risk conditions. Understand Now, what just
to dive in down that rabbit hole for a moment.
What the FDA just did was they authorized for the
third JAB for those specific people, but then also extended
it to anybody who has frequent contact with the public.
(17:48):
So that's where the FDA's at. That's not where I'm at.
I suggesting that the data show that the risk benefit
ratio for elderly, morbidly obese, immunity deficiency patients and others
that are very high risk, it's still a good bet
to take the vaccine for everybody else. In my opinion
(18:08):
and that of many other colleagues that are out in
the front lines actually treating patients in their homes now,
instead of waiting for them to go to hospital, we
should go ahead and make available the variety of drugs,
largely anti inflammatories. Not perfect, but that are being used
by physicians all over the world to keep people out
(18:32):
of the hospital and keep them from dying and keep
them from developing. These are the steroids that are often
prescribed when people test positive. Steroids are one solution, and
that's part of the arbimentarium, but frankly so is hydroxychloricalin
and many others. So there's a And by the way,
(18:52):
this is a simple thing that your audience can do,
and it's good for all of us. Go to your
dock and get your vitamin D levels checked and during
good chance that they're going to be too low, and
if they are, you ought to take supplements because the
data are pretty clear that having your vitamin D levels
up at the right level can go a long way
to preventing you from getting this disease. Let me go
(19:16):
and ask this question. So. I have two friends of
mine that live in Atlanta. They were unvaccinated, one seventy
four his wife is I think sixty eight, and within
twenty four hours of their diagnosis, they were at Emory
University Hospital getting an infusion of regenera on the monoclonal antibodies.
I have another friend of mine who lives you know,
(19:38):
ten minutes from my house. And he's fully vaccinated, and
he got a home test. First, he had the Abbot
test and it turned out to be accurate, and he
got it confirmed at a lab. He had a breakthrough case.
He had been fully vaccinated for quite a while. Within
twenty four hours he got the monoclonal antibodies regenera on
infusion and his case and he's you know, it was
(20:00):
a little overweight and um um. He had the best
ten days of his life. He sent his family down
to Florida so they wouldn't contract contract the virus from him,
and he went fishing every day and was sending me,
you know, pictures of forty pounds stripe past that he
was catching. Uh. Enjoying his free is what he called
his COVID vacation because he felt great after getting the infusion. Um. Yeah.
(20:25):
And then there's Rogan. Right. Then there's poor Joe Rogan.
And by the way, why am I like the only
one saying thank god he's okay. I don't care what
your politics are, doctor, I mean this with all my heart.
I don't want anybody dying from this thing. I really
don't know is a hero all over the world. I
just spent two weeks in Europe m touring relating to
(20:47):
COVID and and people people thought Joe Rogan um everywhere,
He's got amazing reach. But if your point is um uh,
And I'm going to mention in the name Ron de Santis,
who went out hard in favor of these antibody cocktails
(21:09):
and has specifically called out that this was what they
used with the potus, And he has really quenched the
outbreak to a large extent in terms of death and
disease in Florida because he has aggressively made available these
antibody cocktails. Well, now, from what I've been able to
(21:30):
gather from my sources, and we don't have a shortage
of monoclonal antibodies. Not quite the contrary. I mean, we're
sharing it with countries all around the world. I agree.
And yet and yet, paradoxically, now the federal government is
going to restrict availability of these monoclonals in Florida. Now
wrap your head around that. Well, let me ask this
(21:52):
question then, whether you're unvaccinated or vaccinated like my friends
and Georgia were not vaccinated. My friend in New York
was vaccinated. And they come down with COVID. The next
question is what is the next course of action I personally,
and I've interviewed doctors graduating from Harvard and Yale, and
we've had, you know, people on the front lines, unlike
(22:14):
doctor Fauci, I'm not particularly fond of at this point.
And you know, remember doctor Fauci doesn't treat patients. It's
kind of important to know doctor Fauchi. That is an
interesting little point. And those emails were pretty revealing, and
the intercept pages were more revealing. But that's a different
story for a different day. But I want to give
good information to my audience. Wait until the first thing
(22:35):
book comes out. I'm sorry, wait until JFK. Junior's book
comes out about mister Fauci, you will open your eyes
really Okay, So my question to you is, now, I'm
not a doctor. I'm not going to play one on radio.
So I'm asking you. You know, you played the big
role in inventing the technology for these vaccines, which is
(22:57):
pretty fascinating to me. You're obviously a brilliant man. And
my question is, so you have a breakthrough case or
you're unvaccinated, you contract COVID, and and what's what's the
next bit of advice you'd give people. My advice would be,
immediately go talk to your doctor about monoclonal antibodies. That's
(23:18):
what my first bit of information would be asked. I
think that's I think that's great advice. There's also many
other complementary drugs and the agents that you can take.
But you, you know, given that you're responsible broadcaster and journalist,
(23:39):
I think that's a superposition to take. Nobody in in
the FDA or in the fact checker community can hit
you on that one quick break more with doctor Robert Malone.
He played an instrumental role in the invention of the
mRNA technology that led to the vaccines of Faiza Maderna.
(24:15):
All Right, we continue. Doctor Robert Malone played an integral part,
a key role in the invention of the mr NA
technology that led to the Madonna Faiza vaccines. Now, let
me ask you about these new variants here. And there's
one in particular in Kentucky. I'm not sure how the
pronouncing is R dot one or R one um. It
infected forty five residents and employees. And there's one particular
(24:39):
facility in Kentucky. There's a there's a great there's a
great article in Forbes on that written by Bill Hazeltine.
It's really comprehensive. Um. So that's a good one to
look at. UM. And then there is a CDC report
from about two months ago that's easy to find by
just searching the CDC MMWR journal. UM. And uh, well,
(25:02):
let me quote the Forbes article for you scientists by
the name of William Hazelton. And maybe you know, maybe
you don't art sciences at a Harvard big shot. Okay,
R one is a variant. Is the variant to watch.
He said, it's established a foothold in both Japan and
(25:23):
the US, and he added it features several unique mutations
that could give it advantages in transmission, replication, and immune suppression,
and one mutation named E four eighty four K and
I have no idea what I'm saying here. Just stay
with me, doctor, located in the spike protein of the virus,
gives it quote an increased resistance to antibodies generated by
(25:47):
the vaccine. And our one shares an additional mutation D
six one four G with all other variants that that
have overtaken the original alpha strain, which increases infectiousness. So
I'm giving you a lot of information. It has it
has another it has another mutation that increases its replication
(26:07):
in humans. I didn't want to show off. I would
have brought that up to you're you're you are on it,
my friend. So what does it mean though, because I
really don't understand it? So, um, this the current vaccine products,
and there's new ones coming that are second generation products,
but the current vaccine products all rely on the spike protein.
(26:29):
And the spike protein was the focus because it was
known that um UH, that protein would provide pretty good
protection and so it was a safe bet. And the
problem with that is that the antibodies that for the
B cell antibody based immunity UM in order for them
(26:50):
to be effective, there's a limited number of targets places
that they combine to on the spike protein to block
the ability of the virus to infect other cells and
neutralize the virus. And the thing is that those it's
kind it's really turned out to be complex. There's been
(27:10):
some fascinating silence done in the Joya Institute of Allergy
and Immunology by a large international team mapping all these
different domains and basically what BILL is pointing out is
that one of those domains is being mutated so that
the antibodies which normally would be able to bind there
(27:30):
aren't binding or aren't binding as efficiently the ones evoked
by the vaccine, because remember the vaccine is against the
original alpha strain, so it's no longer matched. This is
one of the big problems. The truth is that we're
vaccinating for yesterday's virus, okay, and so we're generating friends
of mine yell at me for getting a flu shot
every year, and half of my friends agree, half disagree,
(27:52):
and I know it's on average thirty to forty percent
effective because they guess what strain it's going to be.
So it's kind of it sounds a little similar to that, right. Well,
it's a good point, and in fact, there's even more
you're even more accurate in talking about flu. That's a
super analogy because for a number of reasons, many vaccinologists,
(28:15):
myself included, think that over vaccinating for flu is actually
not a good thing. One of the things that's kind
of a little bit worrisome about this, we're just going
to go ahead and give everybody a jab every six
month strategy is there's a thing called high zone tolerance
and another thing called original energenic sin. So those are
(28:37):
fancy immunology words, but what they equate to is that
more is not always better with vaccines. More vaccination, more
frequent vaccination can in some cases, actually make it so
that you're less able to mount an immune response against
the hythogen. I'm running out of time, unfortune, and I
rarely give a full hour of my program to anyone person.
(29:00):
But I mean, considering you're up to your eyeballs and
all of this, and you know, play the key role
in discovering the mr mRNA technology to build out the
the vaccines Maderna and Visa. I just think that, you know,
I want everybody to put this in the category of information.
Take it seriously. Talk to your doctor. Doctors look at
(29:22):
your unique medical history, your current condition, talk to your
doctor and make the make the right decision for you. Um,
and I just want everybody to be informed and smart
and safe and uh, you know obviously and now and
now I understand after all of this, why people spend
their entire lives studying one virus. It's crazy. It's crazy
(29:44):
to me, M But I appreciate you being on the program. Doctor, well,
I hope you'll come back again, and uh we you know,
you should really take a bow. I mean, you know,
for the people that you know you pointed out absolutely
need this vaccine. Sixty five CO morbidity is pretty existing conditions,
compromised immune systems. You know, you're very clear on it,
and I appreciate your forthrightness on it. I'm glad to
(30:07):
be on your program anytime, my friend. Thank you and
be good. All right, thank you, sir, Doctor Robert Malone. Fascinating.
Let's talk to you. Doctor. There's a lot to learn,
and every time I think I know something, I am
learning more. Quick break right back
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