Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the We Don't Podcast, starring husband and wife
Mojo from Mojo in the Morning and his better half
Chelsea on this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Coming up on this episode of the We Don't Podcast,
I don't have the tease.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I don't even know what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
What are we talking about?
Speaker 4 (00:27):
We are talking about the four stages to a marriage,
according to a psychologist. Recently, there's only four according to psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
All right, well let's let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, all right, all right, all right, without further delay,
here are Mojo and Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, so what a week? Huh?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
What a week?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, Before we get into our thing here, I want
to tell you that I'm preparing for you to lose
your mind yep, to who possibly leave me to have
an affair.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Well, I don't know if that would cause an affair,
but I think that because I won't have time because
I'll be waiting on your hand and foot.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
But after this so fair.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I found out I hurt myself, you know, at Dad's
Day with Luke, and my extent of injuries was way
worse than I thought it was going to be. I
actually tore something in my shoulder and I need to
have surgery. I wasn't going to have surgery. I actually
was going to try to do it. I call it
the Chelsea way because Chelsea does not like surgery. You
(01:37):
do not like going into the well. Well, was surgery
to make yourself look beautiful exactly?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
If it's cosmetic surgery, that's another thing. But like this
elective shoulder me. Like, by the way, you've had a
lot of surgeries, so I've been the caretaker for you.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, for couple surgeries.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And the reason I mean, it's bad to be under
anesthesia anyway, so that's always a concern. But you, when
you mix narcotics with you, you turn into a complete dick.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What do you mean by mixing narcotics because not like
I do a lot of.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Narcotics, meaning meaning you just take them. I shouldn't say mixed,
but when you mix it into Yeah, when you mix
it into you and to your self as the equation.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And also there's when I take narcotics because I'm in pain.
I think it's pain and narcotics. I think it's the idea.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, you were not a dick.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
To me when you had your heart surgery, but when
you had your knee replaced, that was horrible.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
You were horrible to me.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Even the boys were worried because you were not You
do not mix well with oxycotton. And I, after I
had talked to a couple of people, apparently that does
happen to some people, that can bring out a very aggressive,
mean side.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
The interesting thing was I think that when actually it's
weird because I've had a lot of surgeries, like you said,
I've had knee surgeries, you know, meniscus torn, I've had
I had a replacement early in my life at like forty.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
In your forties, yeah, forty, but in your forties.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Forty two, I think it was.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
No, I think you're probably like forty five, was I? Yeah,
I had heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I had bicep.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Well you had bicep, yeah, the torn bicep, and then
the big one was the open heart surgery.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And now this one.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
So we're out to a handful and quite honestly, like
I think we're done, Like we can check the boxes.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And just there's a lot more.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Well, then you might have to get a girlfriend who's
coming into And I haven't never though ever asked you
to take care of me ever, ever, ever, but.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I did take care of you when you had your
breasts uh taken out.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Well, I also had my friend fly in from Arizona
to take care of me too, Like I I don't know,
I just I don't well. But you didn't take time
off like I make sure that there are people here
who can help me.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Is my point. I of course am going to help you.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
It's just like and I feel bad for you because
we were both getting excited for this time of year,
this time of year for us when the weather breaks
here in Michigan. And I recently discovered that I actually
enjoy golfing, and so you know, we were going to
golf lot this year, but we just had to reframe it.
(04:38):
You know, you're gonna be stuck in a sling for
a couple of weeks, and then once the sling comes off,
we will walk the golf course. And we went golfing
today and you actually you were my caddie and there
was some sexual harassment involved that I am going to
file a complaint with, but you it was.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I did. For a couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I felt bad because I thought, gosh, I bet it's
such a beautiful day, and I bet he really wishes
he could golf it's not a couple of minutes. A
couple of times I felt bad for you. Then I
got over it really quickly when you irritated me. Was
shit that you were saying.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But yeah, my things that I say, I tell her.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
How hot you keep your head down, Keep your head down.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
He looks so great, You're awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That was a sexual harassment. But keep your head down,
don't we've are you picked your heat up?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Move and then you would say move forward, which he
really meant move left, move back, he meant move right,
And so I had to explain to him, I don't
know golf LINGO A B speak English, because move forward
and back mean something totally different.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But you actually did great.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You actually I did good today.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Go back to the surgeries for one second, and then
we'll move on to uh, actually something. I'm really intrigued
about this four stages of a marriage because I'm wondering
what stage that we hear the four phases of a marriage.
I appreciate you a couple of times in our marriage.
(06:17):
Number one, when you've given birth to our children is
beyond doubt the best time I've ever had with you.
Like where I look at you, I put you on
the biggest pedestal ever. That's amazing. Number two and almost
equal to that when you have nursed me and the
time that you nursed me with my heart, I literally realized,
(06:41):
this is, without a doubt, the best woman I have
ever seen in my.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Life, ept for the morning I forgot your avocado.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, you bring that up, and it makes me look bougie.
Every day you were making me breakfast. It was the
same breakfast because we both liked it so much.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
But I would try to prepare it differently every day,
so it was monotonous and boring.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And one morning I ran out of.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Avocado and I did not have avocado to serve you,
and he looked at me, and you just said, where's
my avocado? And I wanted to take the plate and
smash it in your face.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I would love to write down all of your times
that you have done something that you know, and then
I'll bring them up.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Well, I didn't write it down, but if you want
me to write a list, I certainly can't. You remember it, though, well,
of course I do well because I was I had
been busting my ass and I was cooking all three
meals for you, and I I think what you know, yes,
it sucks when you're the patient who has the surgery.
(07:47):
Of course, it's horrible. I wouldn't want to have open
heart surgery at all. But I think what you don't
understand is it's really hard also for caretakers. It's I'm
not medicated. I'm not the one who gets to pop
U pill every six hours four to six hours for
the pain and take a nap. And you know, I'm
the one that's sitting here making sure everything is done
(08:08):
because I'm a very type a personality. So every day
I have your pain pill schedule and all of your
other shit that you have to take written out on
a whiteboard and we check it off to make sure
I did your exercises with you every day, to make
sure that you were doing your exercises like it. There's
(08:29):
taking care of the house Luke was doing. Luke couldn't
go back into school because we couldn't expose you to germs,
so he was doing homeschooling. It's trying to keep or
virtual schooling and trying to keep on top of that.
There's just a lot when it comes to being a caretaker,
making sure you stay alive. A lot of pressure for
that too. So when when you take care of someone,
(08:50):
you know, I'm setting an alarm to continue to make
sure you're getting your medication. So it's not like I'm
sitting over here on vacation while you're in pain and you're.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
There's a lot that goes into a caretaker. I don't
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I don't think that it's not not with your knee.
I mean that was horrib I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Acted like I didn't appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You're just mean, really, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I mean, I know I had one time that I
said something to you that I was more than once.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, more than once.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I mean even I had to go pick up joe
from the airport, and there is somehow you made up
a conversation in your head that we had and you're
standing at the door like freaking out about something. And
I had called one of your friends to come over
and sit with you so I could leave and go
pick up Joey at the airport. And you were like,
she did this, she said this, And your friend is like.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
She didn't just go sit down, go relax.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
It was just I think oxy cotton and you do
not mix, you know, But I.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Will tell you this now I do appreciate you. I
really do love you more than anything, but more than ever,
I appreciate you for knowing that. And this is when
you realize that you pick the right person, or that
the right person came into your life when you're down
and out, when you're having a struggle, like when times
(10:16):
are tough. Either it could be their health issues, it
could be their family's health issues or somebody in their
family being sick. Chelsea steps up. You are incredible at
being the person that is there for pretty much everybody.
And I'm not talking to just me or the boys.
I'm talking your family members, your friends.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think you well.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I think that's where I excel. I think I think
you take care of people.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I also would love to ask, like a therapist or
a psychologist or psychiatrist, what is it, because I think
there's something about you, maybe something from your childhood or of.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Course there is that makes it always goes back.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
To because you do. When you step up and you
help out. You don't just say, hey, let me bring
a meal over to your house. I take control, like
you take control and become the nurse that nurses the
person back to health. So it is. It's pretty awesome.
And listen, anybody that listens to this thing knows that
(11:24):
we go back and forth on certain stuff. I bow
down before this woman and your friends and family members
I know do too, because this woman knows what's going on.
So well, I look at I looked at the calendar today, okay,
and it's tomorrow. What is tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Tomorrow's Monday, right, Yeah, there was an anniversary or there's
something tomorrow. I don't remember what the hell it was.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Well, today it's our niece's birthday. Happy birthday, Madeline.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I don't know what it was. There was something in
our calendar. There was something that happened. I don't know
if it was. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't even know
what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I don't know. No, there was I don't remember what
it was. Maybe it wasn't. Then I put something in it.
Maybe it was a memory in a picture or something
like that. But a memory and a picture came up
and it was a memory of a time. Well, there
was a memory of I think your grandfather was really
sick at this time of the year, or something happened
this time of the year.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
With your grandfather. Am I wrong or no? His anniversary
of dying in past I know, but there was something.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
There's something where you had to go back to Arizona,
like a memory came up or you had to go
back because either your dad had something and I saw
it and I was like, holy crap, because I remember
It's like Chelsea is nobody gets on an airplane faster
than this woman to Arizona, California, Chicago, you know, wherever
it is for somebody that like you are the queen of.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Well, if they want somebody, I think. I always like
my question to all my friends is when they tell
me something's going on, Okay, what can I do for you?
And if it's be here, then I will one. I'm
there within twenty four hours. One whatever they need and
my family, my friends, my and that's happened a couple
(13:14):
of times.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
You'll do it for strangers, like it's pretty crazy, like.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Anything to get out of this house.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Maybe that's the thing. Maybe it's not just your childhood,
Maybe it's just our marriage.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Possibly get me so far away from him. This podcast
is over. We just solved it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, Well, I uh will be better on oxy or
I won't take it at all.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, I don't like taking pain pills. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
One of the reasons I don't like taking pain pills
is I want to feel the pain because I want
to know when the pain's over with.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Well, here's the deal with this surgery. You're going to
feel pain even if you are on pain medication and
the beauty. Like with oxy, they only give you so
many pills because you're only allowed to take so many.
I remember with the knee replacement, he stood over your bed,
your hospital bed, and shook the pill bottle and said,
this is it. I give you no more than this. This,
(14:09):
This will get you through the end of I didn't
take it all, and you did not take it all.
You were you get very scared of addiction and which
look at me, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, I have a slice.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But here's the thing. A pizza, No, I buy a
pizza place.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But here's the whole thing. With pain, it's silly too,
especially when like it's a lot of pain. It's kind
of because it just adds more stress to your body,
It raises your blood pressure.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
It you know, just you need to.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
If you can, and if it's necessary, take the pain pills.
You're not on them for the rest of your life.
You're going to be on them for maybe a week,
maybe maybe five days, who knows however long. But it's
important to stay ahead of the pain and just and
then as you like. There was a doctor that we
ran into tonight and he said, during the day it's
(15:01):
one thing, but at night, it's a good idea to
if you got through the day without taking anything, at night,
why don't you take some tilan on because it's different
when you're laying down and you're laying there and the
pain will just creep up on you. I thought it
was and I thought that was great advice, great advice.
You know, if you think can handle it during the day, okay,
(15:21):
then at night and it's not taking a pain pill.
It can be as simple as taking motrin or tailan
all like, I thought that was really great advice.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
All right, I'm looking forward to this again.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
What is this the four phases of marriage? Four phases
of marriage.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Which according to you know one and it's a man,
So let me just start with that. That I but
I just thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
If it has any phase in there that requires you
to have sex with your spouse. Chelsea disregards it, especially
if it's I.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Just count it right away if it's a man, because
you know whatever. But anyway, okay, So the first phase
is a honeymoon phase, and that is when all you
can see is the good and great in each other.
You love and validate each other, You are intentional about
meeting each other's needs, and sex and life are incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Did we have that. I don't know if we did.
I mean we base, I'm sure we did. Here's the thing.
We got married very young, so that's probably yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Yeah, and just oh like when people would say, oh,
you're so young to get married, and I was like,
love conquers.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
All, you know, I'll prove it to you.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, we both had that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So dumb, so dumb, dumb.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I think, Well, it's dumb from the aspect of we
didn't realize how hard marriage was going to be. Yeah,
we looked at them as a way to go.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You don't know, we're in love.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I have to tell you though, I think that
if if things were different, I don't know how much
we would have been able to get through that time. Like,
I think we would have made a lot of more
mistakes because some people go through this stage and kids
don't come as fast as.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
They get For us, Yeah, I got pregnant.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Like I see all these younger couples nowadays and they
get married, they've gone, you know, they got married younger,
like right out of college. They got good jobs, they
live in way nicer places than we've ever you know,
had a chance to live in. And they like they're
in Royal Oak or they're you know, in Birmingham or whatever,
(17:36):
and they're living this honeymoon stage. And I think that
sometimes they get themselves caught into a little bit of
trouble because they're almost too honeymoony, like the honeymoon goes
on a little too well.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, but by the way, that's what you see on
the outside. Yeah, you know, so you might think that
that pert like, oh my gosh, they're so in love,
they're so you know, I'm not discounting it. I'm sure
that does happen. But again it's a whole comparing thing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Listen, I worry about our kids with that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I do that they're in honeymoon pha.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, I worry about well, I think that that and
also they're going to get married, they're going to be
in the honeymoon phase, and their honeymoon phase is maybe
they're going to last too long and then turn into
them not being realistic about what a marriage really is
(18:31):
all about.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, life hit you in the face really hard. It
doesn't matter like your face can get you hard and
it can hit you really hard. So either you have
to which is really important that you do marriage counseling
and not just like like I think our marriage counseling
was kind of bullshit.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Nobody well, our marriage counseling in our trouble times was
was actually much pre premium, our premier, Like nobody talks
to you, like, nobody talk to us about financially how
difficult that was going to be for us as a couple,
and nobody talks about how to how to fight, you know,
and that was that was one of those things, like
(19:08):
how to actually have an argument. You know, you never
saw arguments in your your parents' marriage. I rarely saw
my parents argum.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I didn't see my parents never fought. I came from
a very large My mom was the oldest of nine
siblings and her parents were divorced. My grand my grandparents
were divorced, and we would always have family dinners on
Sunday that my grandfather's growing up and there with nine siblings,
(19:40):
there was a lot of that was a very dysfunctional family.
You know, a lot of fighting amongst the siblings. So
it's not that I grew up in this utopian bubble
where everything was perfect, because I did see. But your
parents fighting, but my parents never because they grew up
in very volatile homes where their parents I hear they
both will tell me stories and I just my heartbreaks
(20:03):
for them the way that they grew up. But they
grew up in very volatile, sometimes physically physical homes, and
they were not going to do that to us. And
they didn't, like you knew.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I knew that they were.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Fighting because they weren't talking to each other and sometimes
they like you would see cards like greeting cards that
they would write to each other, and I knew, okay,
this is like they're going to make up or that
they're like their community.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That was their communication. They just didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It was never again because of the way that they
grew up, they were not gonna they were not going
to do that in front of us.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What was it like for you? Because you had uncles
and ants that divorces. Was it, Oh, well, I know,
but you're you're your dad just took off. When you
had uncles and aunts that went through divorces and stuff,
was it more difficult for you because you never saw
your parents get to go through arguments and all of
(21:00):
a sudden, you're like, my aunt my uncle are no
longer going to be together or they're going.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Through the divorce.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
So when I look back at my child and you
ask about that, I don't remember it being like hard
or I just think it was like part of life,
like Okay, there person's not going to be her. Yeah,
they're not together anymore because.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We did no divorce. Right in my mind for.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Me, it wasn't like I was sad that I wasn't
going to have that those aunts and uncles in my life.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
But I wasn't. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
It wasn't like this traumatizing the world is going to end.
And maybe that's because again, it was a huge family
for me.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The first divorce that I really experienced was your grandfather
and one of.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
His wives, one of his many wives, Jerry when because
because yeah, because she none of your friends got divorced.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I never know, and actually one of our one of
my buddies.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Your brother, and get divorced before that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
No, my brother got divorced after that. And then when
my brother got divorced, I'll be honest with you, people
started picking sides. And because my brother and I had
such a hard marriage or some dar harge relationship relationship
brother relationship, I really was thinking about her, thinking, man,
(22:21):
he is kind of a pain in the ass to me,
so I wondered how he was to her. So I
was like one of the few people in the family
that sympathized a little bit with with her, because my
sisters always came running to you know, their you know,
their siblings like they did when you and I got
into us some rough patches, and I shared with them,
(22:41):
which I would never do again if you and I
ever go through another struggle where it comes to that,
I will never say anything to anybody.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Too late for that though, I think and think, and
I think marriage that's something that's really important. You know,
if you are going through something in your marriage, you
really need to be cared for who you share it
with and what you share. I mean, I would absolutely
go to a therapist. But if you're going to lean
on friends, which you should be able to lean on friends,
by the way, and maybe you should be able to
(23:10):
lean on family, But you have to know that what
you tell them could change their view on your person,
and more than not, you're probably going to stay with
them at that point. It's not ever that relationship with
that person will never be the same, unfortunately, Like that's
(23:31):
just but whatever, that's not our topic.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
No, No, it's interesting though. The honeymoon stage. Orryhis what's
the second one?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
The next phase is a selfish phase, So there's unresolved
trauma from the wounds you inflicted on each other. It
causes blame for each other, Resentment builds, life interrupt your connection, Excitement,
dreams and intimacy fade. You're focused on your own needs,
you feel stuck for the kids, or you just are
(24:00):
staying because you're committed.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
You don't leave because you made a commitment.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Most people coast during this as long as they can,
or they get divorced.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That was twenty fifteen for us, I think, wasn't it
probably yeah, like or at that time, right there after
Luke was born.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, well he was born ten years before that, but
I would yeah, I would say around well, when I
turned forty was a big pivot in our relationship for sure,
right after I turned forty, because that's when I like
realized that I wanted to do stuff for myself. I
(24:42):
wanted to not have it just be about you and
the boys like me, I belong, I am a person too.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, And do you think in this stage here, this
is by the way to me, that second or is
it stages phases? That is that's a hit or miss
in a relationship. I mean that is well or because
that's a I would bet that that's where the majority
of the divorces.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, yeah, that's what it's Yeah, but also.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I bet that that's where majority of the time that
if you can get through that stage or phase. And
I don't know what the other two are going to be,
but I think if you can get through that, that
is going to be either something's going to really make
your relationship grow or you're.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Just going to be right. Well, you can stay in.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That cohabitating with each other after that.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Literally people can because of if you are committed, right,
I'm not going to get divorced because I'm not going
to be a divorced person, So you can be I'm
going to see this out and then you just, yeah,
coexist your roommates, like you just said, and a lot
of people do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
With us, I think I know exactly what it was.
It was. I had some changes at work that kind
of caused for you to be upset with me. And
what was it, Well.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
It wasn't the changes at work. It was what they
it was when they happened. It made me realize that
what I thought our marriage was was not what it was. Yeah,
what I thought you and I were to each other.
And I shame on me for putting a lot of
(26:31):
that pressure on this image in my head that we had,
like because that's not good and it's not normal. You
are human, you know, you are not perfect. Our relationship
is not perfect. And I think I was just I
had this idea in my head that we have this
(26:53):
ideal situation and family and everything is perfect, and knowing
that it's not perfect, but it's it's like, really really good.
And I think that I let something come in and
to you it was you know, this is what has
to be done, But to me, it just whatever I
(27:15):
thought it was, it blew it up.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And that that really hurt me. And then turning forty.
Do you think forty also had.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Something to do with well, when I turned forty, I
had just kind of getting a tickle my throat when
I turned forty, I this is my casual saliva in it,
but I'm going to take a step of it anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You know what else has my saliva in it? When
I kiss you? Is that why you turn your head?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yes? All the time.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
So when I turned forty, for some reason, I decided
that I wanted to meet my dad. And that was
my biological father. He left when I was three and
I just got a bug. I had never really wanted
to meet him before, so it wasn't a big deal
to me. And then I don't know what it was.
(28:07):
But when I turned forty, I wanted to meet him, and.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I did. I reached out. It took like about six months,
but we reconnected.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Do you think you're also going through something to like forty?
Start thinking yourself, it's a big number, it's a whole number.
The number to me wasn't did you feel like you
wanted to be wanted by somebody other than me?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I don't think that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I think that no, because I always feel like when
you turn at a certain age, like you have to
love me. I have to love you because we got
married to each other. And I know it sounds weird
to say this, but a choice. Well, but I also
think that we made this commitment. We have kids like
all that stuff. And then I think though that when
you're going through a stage, like even when you turned fifty,
(28:57):
and because when you turn fifty, you changed a lot
of everything about your life, like you really focused on
your health and your health wasn't great, right, Like you
were you going through a lot of change. Yeah, but
then you were you kind of like sort of living
your best life a little bit. You know, the kids
were off off.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well I can do that when when the kids are gone,
I think when not? I think when I turned forty,
I still had two kids at home. You know, Joey
was off in college, but I still had two.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Kids at home.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And that's another one too. When you send one away
to college probably spurs some of this on too, right.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, I think, Well, I think once they start leaving,
it's like, okay, because I am the one that holds
it all together here. And as I start leaving, of course,
your identity is like okay, what what is going on
when Joe left, I started a business, you know, well
a couple of years after he left, tried that.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
For a little bit, very successful.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It was a yes, it was great while it lasted,
but co and all that stuff whatever, it was great
while it lasted. But I think for me, as yes,
kids start to leave, you do like, what is my identity?
And when I forty, for me was not that big
(30:17):
of a deal when I hit fifty. When I turned fifty,
I started thinking, Okay, I don't feel fifty, Like sometimes
I feel fifty, but I typically don't feel fifty. But
so it's like, okay, how many years do I have left?
And what do I want to leave as a legacy,
because truthfully, one day, really all ill be is a
(30:45):
person in some kind of digital photo floating off to
my great great grandchildren who won't even know my name
or know anything. They'll just know of what people say
about me. Right, So I want to make sure that
what people say about me it's good, you know, or
I have some meaning to somebody, because you know, I mean, truly,
that's all we are. You know, if you really think about.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It, I don't know, I think you've left a pretty
good legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I mean, I think my kids, but but I'm just mean, like,
it's crazy to me that.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it is sad when you say it that way.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I mean, but that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
The saddest thing for me is when I look at
the ages of people that die and I go.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Oh, wow, they died. How old are they?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And then they'll say, yes, yes, so and so died
they were seventy nine. I'm like, holy fuck, yeah, seventy nine.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah sounds so young old. I know, well, twenty nine.
We got to work on your math. Fifty to seventy nine,
twenty But thanks for trying to kill.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Me out, really.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Know, No, I know that my math is bad, horrible,
But no, when I look at that and I start
doing the math, you know clearly not well, am I
so worried?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
That's that's a whole other life.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
No, I but it is. Uh, it's it's wild. God,
the whole idea that you just said that you're just
a picture or.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Just a based in a picture. I mean, by then
it's gonna be digital.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
But you think about it, like my kids, I knew
my great grandma, my great grandma Lucille.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Of course my boys didn't know her.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
And to me, I have like really fond, fun memories
of her. My boys don't know her, and when they,
you know, you look back in photo albums, it's like, well.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Who's this, who's this? Who's this? Who's this? They don't know,
you know.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So it's nowadays you can record and there's voices with it,
and they're like, wouldn't it be amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
To have video of your mom? And be amazing? Yeah,
like it was. There is video that's out there. There's
some video that's out there. You gotta find it, but there.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
But you know, nowadays there's some one recording everything you are,
your grandchildren and great grandchildren and great great Maybe maybe
we'll be able to hear your voice and know about
you because of your job and what you do, and
that's amazing, you know, I'll just be the one that
(33:17):
was married.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I came down and this is something big for anybody
who's listening right now that doesn't like the way they
look or they won't get in pictures. I came down
on you a lot because you would never get into pictures.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
You would always say delete that, delete that, delete that. Yeah,
And unfortunately, you know, for you, that's not the perfect picture,
but no pictures should ever be perfect. You are the
perfect person and the one thing that I would tell
you all the time. And you've been really good about this.
I think in the last more so ten years that
you have been Yeah, get a picture of me with
(33:54):
the boys. Yeah, And honestly, it's.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Doesn't matter how fat I am, get a picture of them.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, I'm going to say this to you that you
are not fat, not no, no, never ever fat. You
were always perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Do you remember what you said to me last weekend?
You can go say it again again. You said to
me you liked me better when I was fat when.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I met so you said that I meant was I
liked you better, you were nicer.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
No, you can say that I've never been fat, but
you didn't mean that last weekend.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Okay, anyway, right, So that was. So there's two phases
we've gone through phases.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Down the honeymoon phase than the selfish phase.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Right now, it's the third phase.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
If you decide to stay in your marriage. Next is
the impact phase, and that's working on yourself and owning you.
When the true healing and the connection begins. Most often
there's only one partner who is doing this okay, and
that one is leaving the other in this phase, and
(35:03):
this is when you can create a new marriage.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Who's doing it in our relationship?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
You?
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I don't know, because I I don't know. I think
that that impact phase.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I can see that though I can see it being you.
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
It doesn't listen again, this is just one. No, this
is not the Bible on relationship that put this together exactly.
So that's probably wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But it is. But no, you know what though, this
is this is actually a good one because this impact
phase is big. You got through a you got through
a really tough, difficult portion of your relationship. You guys
stayed together.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I don't know whether it's intentional or not, whether it's
because of the kids or you're afraid to divorced.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, divorce. I so you stayed together. Now there's one
person that's motivated. Maybe then more because there are.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Couples that both maybe both of you will not go
to counseling. Maybe just one will go to counseling, and
they're gonna work on yourself. By the way, I also
think that the one difference in here is you know
you could work. You can go to counseling and work
on yourself and have the other person decide. You know,
they're not gonna work on it. They may not follow
you in that. And if they don't follow you in that,
it could end in divorce. And you know what, it
(36:25):
might be better anyway that it ends in divorced, quite honestly,
because you're not going to do all this work on
yourself and then stay miserable because the person that you're
married to won't work on themselves or come join you
where you're at.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, No's it's a really good point. And and you
know there are a lot of times where people probably
get into this phase and then maybe they end up divorced,
but their next relationship that they're in, they are looking for.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Something that is completely different.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Different than what they had in their first marriage. Yeah,
it's it's wild to think, you know, it's funny. I
think everything ebbs and flows, right. I think I said
this on the last podcast that I knew things were
going too good for a while, that it had to
get something had to happen. I know it sounds like
a fatalist mentality, but if you're in a relationship for
(37:16):
any period of time, you're going to go through these
great times in your relationship and then you do get
in that car crash or you know, you just got
to hope that it's a fixable crash and not something
that totals the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But you also have to understand that your car is
going to break down. Yes, so it doesn't have to
be an accident. It can be simply you need an
oil change or I don't know cars, yes.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
And its I really am a big advocate of therapy.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Way more than you are. Yeah I don't, but I
but I think if people. But which is.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
So interesting though you're such a big, big advocate of
therapy and you.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Because you go into the doctor and working on yourself.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Jesus, Yes, we know you love the doctor, but you
need to. But it really amazes me that a therapist
hasn't gotten it's gotten through to you that there will
be more fights, tom Like, there's going to be shit
that comes up in your relationship and it's not the
end of the world.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Because tells me that. So you don't listen. No, I listen,
but I don't want to hear it. I My hope is,
you know, so you think everything's going to be perfect
forever I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I don't think it's going to be perfect. I just
pray to God that you know, God, you know, is
able to make those bumps a lot less bumpy.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
You can pray all you want, but the bumps are
still going to be there, and it's how you handle them.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Well, it's how you go over the bumps.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So that is where therapy can come in, because it
should be okay, there's going to be bumps in the road,
and this is how you handle it instead of being
a fatalist. And you know, I think that that is
a huge That's what shocks me about you because, believe
you me, we are going to have many more fights.
(39:04):
We are not a perfect I'm not perfect, You're not perfect.
So we're going to have if we stay married, we're
gonna have many more fights.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And we have to learn.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
How to either walk away from it and not be
destructive with our words when we're in it. And you
know it's okay, I'm going to annoy the shit out
of you, just like you annoy the shit out of
me continuously for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Would you like some oxy cotton?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
No, I'm actually I was joking with my friends the
other day, and I said, I'm just going to take
the oxy cotton and then give you tick tacks and say,
I don't know why they are men tee.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Oh my god, she looks like nothing's bothering her.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Why why are you being mean?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I'm still feeling the pain. Yeah, all right, what's the
fourth and final phase? This is where the bullshit comes
into play? Because a guy put this together. I guarantee
you the fact that you're focused on it being a
male therapist, that there's sex that is involved in this one,
is it?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yes? Of course.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
So the fourth and final phase is the passion phase,
and you find peace in a way that you relate
and connect with each other again. You see, you feel
seen heard, and you understand each other again. And he
ended it, of course, was saying, and yes, the sex
(40:24):
is incredible again.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
So I take out the last second. Hold on, is
there anything on this thing here?
Speaker 4 (40:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
There's not, Okay, hold on, there's not. I was going
to see. I was going to see it. Does this thing.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Have a applause or anything? I can play this little
road caster?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Okay it doesn't. So anyway, you don't like this phase.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I like this phase when can we get to this phase.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
We may never, but I just we just have to
accept that the next marriage exactly you can where you
can just do one and two in your next phase
in your next marriage or one and four. The one
thing that I have a major issue with is I
(41:16):
think that men, most men, think that their marriage is
great when their sex life is great, and for women
it's opposite, like we think our marriage is. Most women,
I'll say not all women, but most women feel that
their marriage is great when their emotional needs are met.
So men, it's physical, women it's emotional. So therefore, having
(41:41):
both of you being satisfied and happy in your marriage
and thinking your marriage is great will never ever happen
unless you're giving into the other person's needs and you're
feeling then that your needs aren't met.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You know, a struggle with us right now.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Is physical and you feel your needs aren't meant, so
you feel that your marriage isn't in a quote unquote
great place. I feel that my emotional needs aren't meant
and so which takes me back probably to the selfish
phase where I'm just coasting and there's no horrible drama
(42:21):
going on here, like I'm perfect too.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm fifty.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
I'm not driven by physical connection at all. I would
be so happy living in a neighborhood with just my
best friends, you know, like there's just just having that
emotional connection with your girlfriends. And I think that that
is normal for most women. And I think what you're
(42:50):
going through, especially because you're on testosterone therapy, it's different
for you, and so it's hard for us to meet
in the middle. And then when I how you listen
you feel this way because you're taking testosterone, and then
you tell me no, no, no, no, no no, but yes, yes, yes, yes,
because when you weren't on testosterone, this wasn't a huge
(43:11):
fight for us. If you're being honest and you have
to be honest with yourself, it was not so now
that your rules have changed in the game because you're
taking testosterone and you're feeling all your feelings like it's
it's I feel that the rules have to be changed
in our game according to you, and it's hard for
me because I'm my needs aren't being met, So why
(43:34):
am I going to meet yours?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
You know well, and I think that you're right with
probably reason why sex is becoming more important for me
because I think for a while there, I didn't have
any sex drive because I think.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
My testomers wrote that part of you.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
But I also wasn't given your emotion feeling your emotional needs.
I think that with the separation that you and I have,
like when the you know, we're empty nesting, you know,
right now and kind of going through our thing acting
second acting, but when you're not here for a period
of time, one of the things that really does gratify
(44:17):
me is when you call me and say, hey, I
miss you, I miss you today, whatever, because there's a.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Lot of stetistically no, but do you know what I mean, See,
I think you're going right to the physical.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think that just you saying that makes me yeah, wow,
she actually care like she she feels the same way
I do.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
But you have been a part of my life for
thirty two years, So yes, I do miss you. I
also enjoy being away from you. For being honest and honestly, you.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Know, I have finally started enjoying being away from you.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
I know you do, and I think that that's great.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, I I felt today we you know, like we
talked about in the beginning of this, we went out,
you golfed, I basically you know, helped you and caddied
and tated the ship out of you. But I felt
times where you and I were like connected. Yeah, and
I think it wasn't so much that I was giving
you emotional connection it was and that you were giving
(45:12):
me physical connection. It was that we were just connected. Like,
it doesn't have to be emotional or even physical. It
can be just us spending time with each other doing
something that we both enjoy.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
But also but that was fulfilling to me emotionally, that's
where you're wrong. Well, because that was fulfilling to me emotionally.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I get it. And fulfillings physically for me. Was you
coming over and even just giving me a fist bump?
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Well, that's all it is, so I can fist bump
you all night down.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Well yeah, I would like, I would like it in
other spots, but but no, I and I think that
you know what's this is actually and I know you
don't think that this guy has his ship together. I
pray that our relationship goes through that phase when you
know one point. It's funny because I look at older
(46:01):
people in their relationships and I wonder, I'm like, God,
did they go through that like really late in life,
and then you realize they're probably going through it early
in their life because I think these phases you go
through and it's six cycle.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean you could cycle through
a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I would like to go to the fourth phase right
now and just end this podcast. If you're okay with that.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Well, we won't go there, but we can end the podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
You should post and and I suggest this because I
think this would be a great post tomorrow. Post this
entire on the We Don't Podcast Instagram for anybody that
really wants to kind of go back and look at
it and check that out. That'd be a great post
on Instagram. All right, that does it for this one.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Are you done? Are you good? I'm done. I'm good.
Do you feel like we've fulfilled it?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
You know that we gave them forty six plus minutes.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That must be very Are you like dying? No?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I actually want more because this is an emotional connection
that we're true
Welcome to the We Don't Podcast, starring husband and wife
Mojo from Mojo in the Morning and his better half
Chelsea on this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Coming up on this episode of the We Don't Podcast,
I don't have the tease.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I don't even know what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
What are we talking about?
Speaker 4 (00:27):
We are talking about the four stages to a marriage,
according to a psychologist. Recently, there's only four according to psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
All right, well let's let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, all right, all right, all right, without further delay,
here are Mojo and Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, so what a week? Huh?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
What a week?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, Before we get into our thing here, I want
to tell you that I'm preparing for you to lose
your mind yep, to who possibly leave me to have
an affair.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Well, I don't know if that would cause an affair,
but I think that because I won't have time because
I'll be waiting on your hand and foot.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
But after this so fair.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I found out I hurt myself, you know, at Dad's
Day with Luke, and my extent of injuries was way
worse than I thought it was going to be. I
actually tore something in my shoulder and I need to
have surgery. I wasn't going to have surgery. I actually
was going to try to do it. I call it
the Chelsea way because Chelsea does not like surgery. You
(01:37):
do not like going into the well. Well, was surgery
to make yourself look beautiful exactly?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
If it's cosmetic surgery, that's another thing. But like this
elective shoulder me. Like, by the way, you've had a
lot of surgeries, so I've been the caretaker for you.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, for couple surgeries.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And the reason I mean, it's bad to be under
anesthesia anyway, so that's always a concern. But you, when
you mix narcotics with you, you turn into a complete dick.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What do you mean by mixing narcotics because not like
I do a lot of.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Narcotics, meaning meaning you just take them. I shouldn't say mixed,
but when you mix it into Yeah, when you mix
it into you and to your self as the equation.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And also there's when I take narcotics because I'm in pain.
I think it's pain and narcotics. I think it's the idea.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, you were not a dick.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
To me when you had your heart surgery, but when
you had your knee replaced, that was horrible.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
You were horrible to me.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Even the boys were worried because you were not You
do not mix well with oxycotton. And I, after I
had talked to a couple of people, apparently that does
happen to some people, that can bring out a very aggressive,
mean side.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
The interesting thing was I think that when actually it's
weird because I've had a lot of surgeries, like you said,
I've had knee surgeries, you know, meniscus torn, I've had
I had a replacement early in my life at like forty.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
In your forties, yeah, forty, but in your forties.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Forty two, I think it was.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
No, I think you're probably like forty five, was I? Yeah,
I had heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I had bicep.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Well you had bicep, yeah, the torn bicep, and then
the big one was the open heart surgery.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And now this one.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
So we're out to a handful and quite honestly, like
I think we're done, Like we can check the boxes.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And just there's a lot more.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Well, then you might have to get a girlfriend who's
coming into And I haven't never though ever asked you
to take care of me ever, ever, ever, but.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I did take care of you when you had your
breasts uh taken out.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Well, I also had my friend fly in from Arizona
to take care of me too, Like I I don't know,
I just I don't well. But you didn't take time
off like I make sure that there are people here
who can help me.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Is my point. I of course am going to help you.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
It's just like and I feel bad for you because
we were both getting excited for this time of year,
this time of year for us when the weather breaks
here in Michigan. And I recently discovered that I actually
enjoy golfing, and so you know, we were going to
golf lot this year, but we just had to reframe it.
(04:38):
You know, you're gonna be stuck in a sling for
a couple of weeks, and then once the sling comes off,
we will walk the golf course. And we went golfing
today and you actually you were my caddie and there
was some sexual harassment involved that I am going to
file a complaint with, but you it was.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I did. For a couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I felt bad because I thought, gosh, I bet it's
such a beautiful day, and I bet he really wishes
he could golf it's not a couple of minutes. A
couple of times I felt bad for you. Then I
got over it really quickly when you irritated me. Was
shit that you were saying.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But yeah, my things that I say, I tell her.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
How hot you keep your head down, Keep your head down.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
He looks so great, You're awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That was a sexual harassment. But keep your head down,
don't we've are you picked your heat up?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Move and then you would say move forward, which he
really meant move left, move back, he meant move right,
And so I had to explain to him, I don't
know golf LINGO A B speak English, because move forward
and back mean something totally different.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But you actually did great.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You actually I did good today.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Go back to the surgeries for one second, and then
we'll move on to uh, actually something. I'm really intrigued
about this four stages of a marriage because I'm wondering
what stage that we hear the four phases of a marriage.
I appreciate you a couple of times in our marriage.
(06:17):
Number one, when you've given birth to our children is
beyond doubt the best time I've ever had with you.
Like where I look at you, I put you on
the biggest pedestal ever. That's amazing. Number two and almost
equal to that when you have nursed me and the
time that you nursed me with my heart, I literally realized,
(06:41):
this is, without a doubt, the best woman I have
ever seen in my.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Life, ept for the morning I forgot your avocado.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, you bring that up, and it makes me look bougie.
Every day you were making me breakfast. It was the
same breakfast because we both liked it so much.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
But I would try to prepare it differently every day,
so it was monotonous and boring.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And one morning I ran out of.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Avocado and I did not have avocado to serve you,
and he looked at me, and you just said, where's
my avocado? And I wanted to take the plate and
smash it in your face.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I would love to write down all of your times
that you have done something that you know, and then
I'll bring them up.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Well, I didn't write it down, but if you want
me to write a list, I certainly can't. You remember it, though, well,
of course I do well because I was I had
been busting my ass and I was cooking all three
meals for you, and I I think what you know, yes,
it sucks when you're the patient who has the surgery.
(07:47):
Of course, it's horrible. I wouldn't want to have open
heart surgery at all. But I think what you don't
understand is it's really hard also for caretakers. It's I'm
not medicated. I'm not the one who gets to pop
U pill every six hours four to six hours for
the pain and take a nap. And you know, I'm
the one that's sitting here making sure everything is done
(08:08):
because I'm a very type a personality. So every day
I have your pain pill schedule and all of your
other shit that you have to take written out on
a whiteboard and we check it off to make sure
I did your exercises with you every day, to make
sure that you were doing your exercises like it. There's
(08:29):
taking care of the house Luke was doing. Luke couldn't
go back into school because we couldn't expose you to germs,
so he was doing homeschooling. It's trying to keep or
virtual schooling and trying to keep on top of that.
There's just a lot when it comes to being a caretaker,
making sure you stay alive. A lot of pressure for
that too. So when when you take care of someone,
(08:50):
you know, I'm setting an alarm to continue to make
sure you're getting your medication. So it's not like I'm
sitting over here on vacation while you're in pain and you're.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
There's a lot that goes into a caretaker. I don't
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I don't think that it's not not with your knee.
I mean that was horrib I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Acted like I didn't appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You're just mean, really, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I mean, I know I had one time that I
said something to you that I was more than once.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, more than once.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I mean even I had to go pick up joe
from the airport, and there is somehow you made up
a conversation in your head that we had and you're
standing at the door like freaking out about something. And
I had called one of your friends to come over
and sit with you so I could leave and go
pick up Joey at the airport. And you were like,
she did this, she said this, And your friend is like.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
She didn't just go sit down, go relax.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
It was just I think oxy cotton and you do
not mix, you know, But I.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Will tell you this now I do appreciate you. I
really do love you more than anything, but more than ever,
I appreciate you for knowing that. And this is when
you realize that you pick the right person, or that
the right person came into your life when you're down
and out, when you're having a struggle, like when times
(10:16):
are tough. Either it could be their health issues, it
could be their family's health issues or somebody in their
family being sick. Chelsea steps up. You are incredible at
being the person that is there for pretty much everybody.
And I'm not talking to just me or the boys.
I'm talking your family members, your friends.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think you well.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I think that's where I excel. I think I think
you take care of people.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I also would love to ask, like a therapist or
a psychologist or psychiatrist, what is it, because I think
there's something about you, maybe something from your childhood or of.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Course there is that makes it always goes back.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
To because you do. When you step up and you
help out. You don't just say, hey, let me bring
a meal over to your house. I take control, like
you take control and become the nurse that nurses the
person back to health. So it is. It's pretty awesome.
And listen, anybody that listens to this thing knows that
(11:24):
we go back and forth on certain stuff. I bow
down before this woman and your friends and family members
I know do too, because this woman knows what's going on.
So well, I look at I looked at the calendar today, okay,
and it's tomorrow. What is tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Tomorrow's Monday, right, Yeah, there was an anniversary or there's
something tomorrow. I don't remember what the hell it was.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Well, today it's our niece's birthday. Happy birthday, Madeline.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I don't know what it was. There was something in
our calendar. There was something that happened. I don't know
if it was. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't even know
what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I don't know. No, there was I don't remember what
it was. Maybe it wasn't. Then I put something in it.
Maybe it was a memory in a picture or something
like that. But a memory and a picture came up
and it was a memory of a time. Well, there
was a memory of I think your grandfather was really
sick at this time of the year, or something happened
this time of the year.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
With your grandfather. Am I wrong or no? His anniversary
of dying in past I know, but there was something.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
There's something where you had to go back to Arizona,
like a memory came up or you had to go
back because either your dad had something and I saw
it and I was like, holy crap, because I remember
It's like Chelsea is nobody gets on an airplane faster
than this woman to Arizona, California, Chicago, you know, wherever
it is for somebody that like you are the queen of.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Well, if they want somebody, I think. I always like
my question to all my friends is when they tell
me something's going on, Okay, what can I do for you?
And if it's be here, then I will one. I'm
there within twenty four hours. One whatever they need and
my family, my friends, my and that's happened a couple
(13:14):
of times.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
You'll do it for strangers, like it's pretty crazy, like.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Anything to get out of this house.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Maybe that's the thing. Maybe it's not just your childhood,
Maybe it's just our marriage.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Possibly get me so far away from him. This podcast
is over. We just solved it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, Well, I uh will be better on oxy or
I won't take it at all.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, I don't like taking pain pills. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
One of the reasons I don't like taking pain pills
is I want to feel the pain because I want
to know when the pain's over with.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Well, here's the deal with this surgery. You're going to
feel pain even if you are on pain medication and
the beauty. Like with oxy, they only give you so
many pills because you're only allowed to take so many.
I remember with the knee replacement, he stood over your bed,
your hospital bed, and shook the pill bottle and said,
this is it. I give you no more than this. This,
(14:09):
This will get you through the end of I didn't
take it all, and you did not take it all.
You were you get very scared of addiction and which
look at me, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, I have a slice.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But here's the thing. A pizza, No, I buy a
pizza place.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But here's the whole thing. With pain, it's silly too,
especially when like it's a lot of pain. It's kind
of because it just adds more stress to your body,
It raises your blood pressure.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
It you know, just you need to.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
If you can, and if it's necessary, take the pain pills.
You're not on them for the rest of your life.
You're going to be on them for maybe a week,
maybe maybe five days, who knows however long. But it's
important to stay ahead of the pain and just and
then as you like. There was a doctor that we
ran into tonight and he said, during the day it's
(15:01):
one thing, but at night, it's a good idea to
if you got through the day without taking anything, at night,
why don't you take some tilan on because it's different
when you're laying down and you're laying there and the
pain will just creep up on you. I thought it
was and I thought that was great advice, great advice.
You know, if you think can handle it during the day, okay,
(15:21):
then at night and it's not taking a pain pill.
It can be as simple as taking motrin or tailan
all like, I thought that was really great advice.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
All right, I'm looking forward to this again.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
What is this the four phases of marriage? Four phases
of marriage.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Which according to you know one and it's a man,
So let me just start with that. That I but
I just thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
If it has any phase in there that requires you
to have sex with your spouse. Chelsea disregards it, especially
if it's I.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Just count it right away if it's a man, because
you know whatever. But anyway, okay, So the first phase
is a honeymoon phase, and that is when all you
can see is the good and great in each other.
You love and validate each other, You are intentional about
meeting each other's needs, and sex and life are incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Did we have that. I don't know if we did.
I mean we base, I'm sure we did. Here's the thing.
We got married very young, so that's probably yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Yeah, and just oh like when people would say, oh,
you're so young to get married, and I was like,
love conquers.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
All, you know, I'll prove it to you.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, we both had that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So dumb, so dumb, dumb.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I think, Well, it's dumb from the aspect of we
didn't realize how hard marriage was going to be. Yeah,
we looked at them as a way to go.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You don't know, we're in love.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I have to tell you though, I think that
if if things were different, I don't know how much
we would have been able to get through that time. Like,
I think we would have made a lot of more
mistakes because some people go through this stage and kids
don't come as fast as.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
They get For us, Yeah, I got pregnant.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Like I see all these younger couples nowadays and they
get married, they've gone, you know, they got married younger,
like right out of college. They got good jobs, they
live in way nicer places than we've ever you know,
had a chance to live in. And they like they're
in Royal Oak or they're you know, in Birmingham or whatever,
(17:36):
and they're living this honeymoon stage. And I think that
sometimes they get themselves caught into a little bit of
trouble because they're almost too honeymoony, like the honeymoon goes
on a little too well.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, but by the way, that's what you see on
the outside. Yeah, you know, so you might think that
that pert like, oh my gosh, they're so in love,
they're so you know, I'm not discounting it. I'm sure
that does happen. But again it's a whole comparing thing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Listen, I worry about our kids with that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I do that they're in honeymoon pha.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, I worry about well, I think that that and
also they're going to get married, they're going to be
in the honeymoon phase, and their honeymoon phase is maybe
they're going to last too long and then turn into
them not being realistic about what a marriage really is
(18:31):
all about.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, life hit you in the face really hard. It
doesn't matter like your face can get you hard and
it can hit you really hard. So either you have
to which is really important that you do marriage counseling
and not just like like I think our marriage counseling
was kind of bullshit.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Nobody well, our marriage counseling in our trouble times was
was actually much pre premium, our premier, Like nobody talks
to you, like, nobody talk to us about financially how
difficult that was going to be for us as a couple,
and nobody talks about how to how to fight, you know,
and that was that was one of those things, like
(19:08):
how to actually have an argument. You know, you never
saw arguments in your your parents' marriage. I rarely saw
my parents argum.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I didn't see my parents never fought. I came from
a very large My mom was the oldest of nine
siblings and her parents were divorced. My grand my grandparents
were divorced, and we would always have family dinners on
Sunday that my grandfather's growing up and there with nine siblings,
(19:40):
there was a lot of that was a very dysfunctional family.
You know, a lot of fighting amongst the siblings. So
it's not that I grew up in this utopian bubble
where everything was perfect, because I did see. But your
parents fighting, but my parents never because they grew up
in very volatile homes where their parents I hear they
both will tell me stories and I just my heartbreaks
(20:03):
for them the way that they grew up. But they
grew up in very volatile, sometimes physically physical homes, and
they were not going to do that to us. And
they didn't, like you knew.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I knew that they were.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Fighting because they weren't talking to each other and sometimes
they like you would see cards like greeting cards that
they would write to each other, and I knew, okay,
this is like they're going to make up or that
they're like their community.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That was their communication. They just didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It was never again because of the way that they
grew up, they were not gonna they were not going
to do that in front of us.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What was it like for you? Because you had uncles
and ants that divorces. Was it, Oh, well, I know,
but you're you're your dad just took off. When you
had uncles and aunts that went through divorces and stuff,
was it more difficult for you because you never saw
your parents get to go through arguments and all of
(21:00):
a sudden, you're like, my aunt my uncle are no
longer going to be together or they're going.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Through the divorce.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
So when I look back at my child and you
ask about that, I don't remember it being like hard
or I just think it was like part of life,
like Okay, there person's not going to be her. Yeah,
they're not together anymore because.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We did no divorce. Right in my mind for.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Me, it wasn't like I was sad that I wasn't
going to have that those aunts and uncles in my life.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
But I wasn't. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
It wasn't like this traumatizing the world is going to end.
And maybe that's because again, it was a huge family
for me.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The first divorce that I really experienced was your grandfather
and one of.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
His wives, one of his many wives, Jerry when because
because yeah, because she none of your friends got divorced.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I never know, and actually one of our one of
my buddies.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Your brother, and get divorced before that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
No, my brother got divorced after that. And then when
my brother got divorced, I'll be honest with you, people
started picking sides. And because my brother and I had
such a hard marriage or some dar harge relationship relationship
brother relationship, I really was thinking about her, thinking, man,
(22:21):
he is kind of a pain in the ass to me,
so I wondered how he was to her. So I
was like one of the few people in the family
that sympathized a little bit with with her, because my
sisters always came running to you know, their you know,
their siblings like they did when you and I got
into us some rough patches, and I shared with them,
(22:41):
which I would never do again if you and I
ever go through another struggle where it comes to that,
I will never say anything to anybody.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Too late for that though, I think and think, and
I think marriage that's something that's really important. You know,
if you are going through something in your marriage, you
really need to be cared for who you share it
with and what you share. I mean, I would absolutely
go to a therapist. But if you're going to lean
on friends, which you should be able to lean on friends,
by the way, and maybe you should be able to
(23:10):
lean on family, But you have to know that what
you tell them could change their view on your person,
and more than not, you're probably going to stay with
them at that point. It's not ever that relationship with
that person will never be the same, unfortunately, Like that's
(23:31):
just but whatever, that's not our topic.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
No, No, it's interesting though. The honeymoon stage. Orryhis what's
the second one?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
The next phase is a selfish phase, So there's unresolved
trauma from the wounds you inflicted on each other. It
causes blame for each other, Resentment builds, life interrupt your connection, Excitement,
dreams and intimacy fade. You're focused on your own needs,
you feel stuck for the kids, or you just are
(24:00):
staying because you're committed.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
You don't leave because you made a commitment.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Most people coast during this as long as they can,
or they get divorced.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That was twenty fifteen for us, I think, wasn't it
probably yeah, like or at that time, right there after
Luke was born.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, well he was born ten years before that, but
I would yeah, I would say around well, when I
turned forty was a big pivot in our relationship for sure,
right after I turned forty, because that's when I like
realized that I wanted to do stuff for myself. I
(24:42):
wanted to not have it just be about you and
the boys like me, I belong, I am a person too.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, And do you think in this stage here, this
is by the way to me, that second or is
it stages phases? That is that's a hit or miss
in a relationship. I mean that is well or because
that's a I would bet that that's where the majority
of the divorces.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, yeah, that's what it's Yeah, but also.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I bet that that's where majority of the time that
if you can get through that stage or phase. And
I don't know what the other two are going to be,
but I think if you can get through that, that
is going to be either something's going to really make
your relationship grow or you're.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Just going to be right. Well, you can stay in.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That cohabitating with each other after that.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Literally people can because of if you are committed, right,
I'm not going to get divorced because I'm not going
to be a divorced person, So you can be I'm
going to see this out and then you just, yeah,
coexist your roommates, like you just said, and a lot
of people do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
With us, I think I know exactly what it was.
It was. I had some changes at work that kind
of caused for you to be upset with me. And
what was it, Well.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
It wasn't the changes at work. It was what they
it was when they happened. It made me realize that
what I thought our marriage was was not what it was. Yeah,
what I thought you and I were to each other.
And I shame on me for putting a lot of
(26:31):
that pressure on this image in my head that we had,
like because that's not good and it's not normal. You
are human, you know, you are not perfect. Our relationship
is not perfect. And I think I was just I
had this idea in my head that we have this
(26:53):
ideal situation and family and everything is perfect, and knowing
that it's not perfect, but it's it's like, really really good.
And I think that I let something come in and
to you it was you know, this is what has
to be done, But to me, it just whatever I
(27:15):
thought it was, it blew it up.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And that that really hurt me. And then turning forty.
Do you think forty also had.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Something to do with well, when I turned forty, I
had just kind of getting a tickle my throat when
I turned forty, I this is my casual saliva in it,
but I'm going to take a step of it anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You know what else has my saliva in it? When
I kiss you? Is that why you turn your head?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yes? All the time.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
So when I turned forty, for some reason, I decided
that I wanted to meet my dad. And that was
my biological father. He left when I was three and
I just got a bug. I had never really wanted
to meet him before, so it wasn't a big deal
to me. And then I don't know what it was.
(28:07):
But when I turned forty, I wanted to meet him, and.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I did. I reached out. It took like about six months,
but we reconnected.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Do you think you're also going through something to like forty?
Start thinking yourself, it's a big number, it's a whole number.
The number to me wasn't did you feel like you
wanted to be wanted by somebody other than me?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I don't think that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I think that no, because I always feel like when
you turn at a certain age, like you have to
love me. I have to love you because we got
married to each other. And I know it sounds weird
to say this, but a choice. Well, but I also
think that we made this commitment. We have kids like
all that stuff. And then I think though that when
you're going through a stage, like even when you turned fifty,
(28:57):
and because when you turn fifty, you changed a lot
of everything about your life, like you really focused on
your health and your health wasn't great, right, Like you
were you going through a lot of change. Yeah, but
then you were you kind of like sort of living
your best life a little bit. You know, the kids
were off off.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well I can do that when when the kids are gone,
I think when not? I think when I turned forty,
I still had two kids at home. You know, Joey
was off in college, but I still had two.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Kids at home.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And that's another one too. When you send one away
to college probably spurs some of this on too, right.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, I think, Well, I think once they start leaving,
it's like, okay, because I am the one that holds
it all together here. And as I start leaving, of course,
your identity is like okay, what what is going on
when Joe left, I started a business, you know, well
a couple of years after he left, tried that.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
For a little bit, very successful.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It was a yes, it was great while it lasted,
but co and all that stuff whatever, it was great
while it lasted. But I think for me, as yes,
kids start to leave, you do like, what is my identity?
And when I forty, for me was not that big
(30:17):
of a deal when I hit fifty. When I turned fifty,
I started thinking, Okay, I don't feel fifty, Like sometimes
I feel fifty, but I typically don't feel fifty. But
so it's like, okay, how many years do I have left?
And what do I want to leave as a legacy,
because truthfully, one day, really all ill be is a
(30:45):
person in some kind of digital photo floating off to
my great great grandchildren who won't even know my name
or know anything. They'll just know of what people say
about me. Right, So I want to make sure that
what people say about me it's good, you know, or
I have some meaning to somebody, because you know, I mean, truly,
that's all we are. You know, if you really think about.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It, I don't know, I think you've left a pretty
good legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I mean, I think my kids, but but I'm just mean, like,
it's crazy to me that.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it is sad when you say it that way.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I mean, but that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
The saddest thing for me is when I look at
the ages of people that die and I go.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Oh, wow, they died. How old are they?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And then they'll say, yes, yes, so and so died
they were seventy nine. I'm like, holy fuck, yeah, seventy nine.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah sounds so young old. I know, well, twenty nine.
We got to work on your math. Fifty to seventy nine,
twenty But thanks for trying to kill.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Me out, really.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Know, No, I know that my math is bad, horrible,
But no, when I look at that and I start
doing the math, you know clearly not well, am I
so worried?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
That's that's a whole other life.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
No, I but it is. Uh, it's it's wild. God,
the whole idea that you just said that you're just
a picture or.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Just a based in a picture. I mean, by then
it's gonna be digital.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
But you think about it, like my kids, I knew
my great grandma, my great grandma Lucille.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Of course my boys didn't know her.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
And to me, I have like really fond, fun memories
of her. My boys don't know her, and when they,
you know, you look back in photo albums, it's like, well.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Who's this, who's this? Who's this? Who's this? They don't know,
you know.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So it's nowadays you can record and there's voices with it,
and they're like, wouldn't it be amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
To have video of your mom? And be amazing? Yeah,
like it was. There is video that's out there. There's
some video that's out there. You gotta find it, but there.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
But you know, nowadays there's some one recording everything you are,
your grandchildren and great grandchildren and great great Maybe maybe
we'll be able to hear your voice and know about
you because of your job and what you do, and
that's amazing, you know, I'll just be the one that
(33:17):
was married.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I came down and this is something big for anybody
who's listening right now that doesn't like the way they
look or they won't get in pictures. I came down
on you a lot because you would never get into pictures.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
You would always say delete that, delete that, delete that. Yeah,
And unfortunately, you know, for you, that's not the perfect picture,
but no pictures should ever be perfect. You are the
perfect person and the one thing that I would tell
you all the time. And you've been really good about this.
I think in the last more so ten years that
you have been Yeah, get a picture of me with
(33:54):
the boys. Yeah, And honestly, it's.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Doesn't matter how fat I am, get a picture of them.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, I'm going to say this to you that you
are not fat, not no, no, never ever fat. You
were always perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Do you remember what you said to me last weekend?
You can go say it again again. You said to
me you liked me better when I was fat when.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I met so you said that I meant was I
liked you better, you were nicer.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
No, you can say that I've never been fat, but
you didn't mean that last weekend.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Okay, anyway, right, So that was. So there's two phases
we've gone through phases.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Down the honeymoon phase than the selfish phase.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Right now, it's the third phase.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
If you decide to stay in your marriage. Next is
the impact phase, and that's working on yourself and owning you.
When the true healing and the connection begins. Most often
there's only one partner who is doing this okay, and
that one is leaving the other in this phase, and
(35:03):
this is when you can create a new marriage.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Who's doing it in our relationship?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
You?
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I don't know, because I I don't know. I think
that that impact phase.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I can see that though I can see it being you.
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
It doesn't listen again, this is just one. No, this
is not the Bible on relationship that put this together exactly.
So that's probably wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But it is. But no, you know what though, this
is this is actually a good one because this impact
phase is big. You got through a you got through
a really tough, difficult portion of your relationship. You guys
stayed together.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I don't know whether it's intentional or not, whether it's
because of the kids or you're afraid to divorced.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, divorce. I so you stayed together. Now there's one
person that's motivated. Maybe then more because there are.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Couples that both maybe both of you will not go
to counseling. Maybe just one will go to counseling, and
they're gonna work on yourself. By the way, I also
think that the one difference in here is you know
you could work. You can go to counseling and work
on yourself and have the other person decide. You know,
they're not gonna work on it. They may not follow
you in that. And if they don't follow you in that,
it could end in divorce. And you know what, it
(36:25):
might be better anyway that it ends in divorced, quite honestly,
because you're not going to do all this work on
yourself and then stay miserable because the person that you're
married to won't work on themselves or come join you
where you're at.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, No's it's a really good point. And and you
know there are a lot of times where people probably
get into this phase and then maybe they end up divorced,
but their next relationship that they're in, they are looking for.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Something that is completely different.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Different than what they had in their first marriage. Yeah,
it's it's wild to think, you know, it's funny. I
think everything ebbs and flows, right. I think I said
this on the last podcast that I knew things were
going too good for a while, that it had to
get something had to happen. I know it sounds like
a fatalist mentality, but if you're in a relationship for
(37:16):
any period of time, you're going to go through these
great times in your relationship and then you do get
in that car crash or you know, you just got
to hope that it's a fixable crash and not something
that totals the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But you also have to understand that your car is
going to break down. Yes, so it doesn't have to
be an accident. It can be simply you need an
oil change or I don't know cars, yes.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
And its I really am a big advocate of therapy.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Way more than you are. Yeah I don't, but I
but I think if people. But which is.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
So interesting though you're such a big, big advocate of
therapy and you.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Because you go into the doctor and working on yourself.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Jesus, Yes, we know you love the doctor, but you
need to. But it really amazes me that a therapist
hasn't gotten it's gotten through to you that there will
be more fights, tom Like, there's going to be shit
that comes up in your relationship and it's not the
end of the world.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Because tells me that. So you don't listen. No, I listen,
but I don't want to hear it. I My hope is,
you know, so you think everything's going to be perfect
forever I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I don't think it's going to be perfect. I just
pray to God that you know, God, you know, is
able to make those bumps a lot less bumpy.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
You can pray all you want, but the bumps are
still going to be there, and it's how you handle them.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Well, it's how you go over the bumps.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So that is where therapy can come in, because it
should be okay, there's going to be bumps in the road,
and this is how you handle it instead of being
a fatalist. And you know, I think that that is
a huge That's what shocks me about you because, believe
you me, we are going to have many more fights.
(39:04):
We are not a perfect I'm not perfect, You're not perfect.
So we're going to have if we stay married, we're
gonna have many more fights.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And we have to learn.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
How to either walk away from it and not be
destructive with our words when we're in it. And you
know it's okay, I'm going to annoy the shit out
of you, just like you annoy the shit out of
me continuously for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Would you like some oxy cotton?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
No, I'm actually I was joking with my friends the
other day, and I said, I'm just going to take
the oxy cotton and then give you tick tacks and say,
I don't know why they are men tee.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Oh my god, she looks like nothing's bothering her.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Why why are you being mean?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I'm still feeling the pain. Yeah, all right, what's the
fourth and final phase? This is where the bullshit comes
into play? Because a guy put this together. I guarantee
you the fact that you're focused on it being a
male therapist, that there's sex that is involved in this one,
is it?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yes? Of course.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
So the fourth and final phase is the passion phase,
and you find peace in a way that you relate
and connect with each other again. You see, you feel
seen heard, and you understand each other again. And he
ended it, of course, was saying, and yes, the sex
(40:24):
is incredible again.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
So I take out the last second. Hold on, is
there anything on this thing here?
Speaker 4 (40:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
There's not, Okay, hold on, there's not. I was going
to see. I was going to see it. Does this thing.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Have a applause or anything? I can play this little
road caster?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Okay it doesn't. So anyway, you don't like this phase.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I like this phase when can we get to this phase.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
We may never, but I just we just have to
accept that the next marriage exactly you can where you
can just do one and two in your next phase
in your next marriage or one and four. The one
thing that I have a major issue with is I
(41:16):
think that men, most men, think that their marriage is
great when their sex life is great, and for women
it's opposite, like we think our marriage is. Most women,
I'll say not all women, but most women feel that
their marriage is great when their emotional needs are met.
So men, it's physical, women it's emotional. So therefore, having
(41:41):
both of you being satisfied and happy in your marriage
and thinking your marriage is great will never ever happen
unless you're giving into the other person's needs and you're
feeling then that your needs aren't met.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You know, a struggle with us right now.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Is physical and you feel your needs aren't meant, so
you feel that your marriage isn't in a quote unquote
great place. I feel that my emotional needs aren't meant
and so which takes me back probably to the selfish
phase where I'm just coasting and there's no horrible drama
(42:21):
going on here, like I'm perfect too.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm fifty.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
I'm not driven by physical connection at all. I would
be so happy living in a neighborhood with just my
best friends, you know, like there's just just having that
emotional connection with your girlfriends. And I think that that
is normal for most women. And I think what you're
(42:50):
going through, especially because you're on testosterone therapy, it's different
for you, and so it's hard for us to meet
in the middle. And then when I how you listen
you feel this way because you're taking testosterone, and then
you tell me no, no, no, no, no no, but yes, yes, yes, yes,
because when you weren't on testosterone, this wasn't a huge
(43:11):
fight for us. If you're being honest and you have
to be honest with yourself, it was not so now
that your rules have changed in the game because you're
taking testosterone and you're feeling all your feelings like it's
it's I feel that the rules have to be changed
in our game according to you, and it's hard for
me because I'm my needs aren't being met, So why
(43:34):
am I going to meet yours?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
You know well, and I think that you're right with
probably reason why sex is becoming more important for me
because I think for a while there, I didn't have
any sex drive because I think.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
My testomers wrote that part of you.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
But I also wasn't given your emotion feeling your emotional needs.
I think that with the separation that you and I have,
like when the you know, we're empty nesting, you know,
right now and kind of going through our thing acting
second acting, but when you're not here for a period
of time, one of the things that really does gratify
(44:17):
me is when you call me and say, hey, I
miss you, I miss you today, whatever, because there's a.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Lot of stetistically no, but do you know what I mean, See,
I think you're going right to the physical.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think that just you saying that makes me yeah, wow,
she actually care like she she feels the same way
I do.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
But you have been a part of my life for
thirty two years, So yes, I do miss you. I
also enjoy being away from you. For being honest and honestly, you.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Know, I have finally started enjoying being away from you.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
I know you do, and I think that that's great.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, I I felt today we you know, like we
talked about in the beginning of this, we went out,
you golfed, I basically you know, helped you and caddied
and tated the ship out of you. But I felt
times where you and I were like connected. Yeah, and
I think it wasn't so much that I was giving
you emotional connection it was and that you were giving
(45:12):
me physical connection. It was that we were just connected. Like,
it doesn't have to be emotional or even physical. It
can be just us spending time with each other doing
something that we both enjoy.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
But also but that was fulfilling to me emotionally, that's
where you're wrong. Well, because that was fulfilling to me emotionally.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I get it. And fulfillings physically for me. Was you
coming over and even just giving me a fist bump?
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Well, that's all it is, so I can fist bump
you all night down.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Well yeah, I would like, I would like it in
other spots, but but no, I and I think that
you know what's this is actually and I know you
don't think that this guy has his ship together. I
pray that our relationship goes through that phase when you
know one point. It's funny because I look at older
(46:01):
people in their relationships and I wonder, I'm like, God,
did they go through that like really late in life,
and then you realize they're probably going through it early
in their life because I think these phases you go
through and it's six cycle.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean you could cycle through
a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I would like to go to the fourth phase right
now and just end this podcast. If you're okay with that.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Well, we won't go there, but we can end the podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
You should post and and I suggest this because I
think this would be a great post tomorrow. Post this
entire on the We Don't Podcast Instagram for anybody that
really wants to kind of go back and look at
it and check that out. That'd be a great post
on Instagram. All right, that does it for this one.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Are you done? Are you good? I'm done. I'm good.
Do you feel like we've fulfilled it?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
You know that we gave them forty six plus minutes.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That must be very Are you like dying? No?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I actually want more because this is an emotional connection
that we're true
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