Faith, Culture & Finding Self: Dr. Amber Khan’s Journey to Authenticity and Healing | Ft. Dr. Amber Khan - 3 Parallels Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Three Parallels Podcast with your host, Doctor
Jason Branch, where we discover who we were, who we are,
and who we are becoming. And today's guests. Oh my goodness,
I got a surprise for y'all. Today's guest to me
is exemplifies greatness and doesn't know it yet. This person
takes humility to a whole other level. I got this background,

(00:21):
Hello hustler because of this person.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's something to show because she's a hustler.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
She does a multitude of different things on different levels
and is great at everything that she does. One thing
specific that I have to shout out, which is part
of the reason of bringing Amber to the show, is
the connection to NBCC. So the National Board of Serve
of Our Counselors is an organization that is dear to
my heart because I serve as a fellow, an MFP

(00:48):
fellow from twenty sixteen, and if it wasn't for NBCC,
I wouldn't be here today and I wouldn't be able
to have this podcast. So NBCC changed my life into me.
Amber is the heart or the glue to me. I
can't speak for nobody else, but the glue or heart
to NBCC, So anything related to NBCC. Amberkhn is your person.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
This person Amber is a gem, is a jewel, and
she's gonna share things with you all that could possibly
change your life if you allow it to. Everyone has
a story, and I love people sharing their stories, and
this is one of the stories.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
That you'll hear that could possibly change your entire life.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
So, ladies and gentlemen, I would love to introduce you
all to miss Amber Cohn.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Oh my gosh, thank you, Doctor Branch. Oh my wow,
what an what an introduction. So I really appreciated, you know,
the what you said about just your connection to NBCC
and the Fellowship. And I think it's been transformative, to
say the least, for for so many people, and you know,

(01:54):
just really truly life changing. And I think in a
way that we're still it's still unfolding, we're still trying
to grasp, you know, just the depth of what it
means to be a part of this program. So so
thank you for sharing that, Thank you for having me
on the show. I am excited for what we're what

(02:20):
you're going to do with this because this is your
You're you know, you're really stepping into a space that
is going to bring just genuine and just knowing you
just bring really genuine conversations into the space. And there
are so many moments that I think all of us

(02:40):
have where we're having just conversations with colleagues and loved
ones and we're like, you know, this would be a
great podcast episode. So here we are. So yeah, I know,
thank you for doing this and just your leadership and
what you're bringing to the space. And I have I
have the same level, if not more respect for you

(03:02):
know all you've done. You are the true hustler. I
mean really really just to admire all the different areas
and industries that you have been in and just all
that you've accomplished. So so thank you for again the
space and just doing this.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
So yeah, absolutely, absolutely, thank you so much. And yes,
this show is a conversation. That's what we're going to do.
This we're going to have and I agree with you,
like there's oftentimes where you have a conversation and it's like, man,
I wish people could hear what we just discussed, and
today we get an opportunity to do that. So I'm
curious to know, like everybody can't do NBCC.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Everybody can't be a part.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Everybody doesn't get selected, everyone doesn't have that passion and
energy to do that work. So I'm curious, you know,
how did you get involved and what made you decide,
I'm finn be a part of NBCC, but not just
to be a part, but to make an impact and
influence because your ideas and what you do and how
you just put things together.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
How did this start? I would love to hear your journey.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yep, thank you. That's a that is a good question.
It's something that I think I revisit just on my
own and just with colleagues. I like remind myself, you know,
this is year whatever. Each year as I've been there
at NBCC, I'm like, oh, this is you know, I'm
still here in this space, in this counseling space, in
this capacity. And so for me, my journey with the

(04:27):
organization started in twenty seventeen. I was in doing I think, yeah,
for one year into my doctoral program. And so our
headquarters is actually in Greensboro, North Carolina, Central North Carolina,
which isn't the case for a lot of you know,
other organizations, especially national level organizations, they tend to be

(04:51):
like in the DC area. So I just happened to
be here where our national headquarters they're right here in
my hometown in Greensboro, and that's also where I was
doing my PhD. And you know, I what was called
what was then called NBCC International. That is where I
did a graduate assistantship, and so that was really the

(05:15):
starting point for me. And I am a first generation immigrant,
so I am also very much a North Carolinian. I've
spent several decades here in North Carolina, but I definitely
definitely identify a lot with my immigrant identity and my culture,
especially in the last two decades of my life. So

(05:37):
I think it's just you know, traveling and just having
that connection through family that's really strengthened my identity and
just feeling more comfortable with coming into that space comparing
to like when I first moved to this country. So
I think just feeling more comfortable, you know, in that
in that space of who I am and just my

(05:58):
cultural background. So so that's really what brought me to NBCC,
is just being here and just having the opportunity to
come in at an assistant ship level and just just
staying here past that point and getting into a different
area of the organization. And I think when I finished

(06:22):
my PhD, I kind of just had, you know, gut feelings.
You kind of go with gut feelings, and it's just like,
h I don't know, I'm just not feeling that I'm
wanting to get into academia right then. And there I
just knew, you know, in twenty nineteen, I was like, Nope,
I don't think this is what I'm going to get
into right now. So that's where I just you know,

(06:46):
went with the gut feeling. I didn't pursue academia and
I just decided to stay on the more administrative side
of the profession. And it's worked out, and I think
every area that I've been in at NBCC it's just
been really really great, just a really great compliment to
the skills that I've gained at the doctoral level, so

(07:08):
they've definitely come into use here at the organization. So
so I went from the international area to the UH
the assessments part of the organization, and then I landed
in foundation, which where I am now, I feel like
is it just feels like me because of also because

(07:32):
of a lot of the engagement that I've had in
the nonprofit space for a long long time, so this
is this has just really fit and fallen right into
right into place at the foundation side. So that's kind
of my my journey. Now I'm going into my eighth year,
so it's been a minute.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I love it, and I apologize. I think I introduct
I introduced you as missus. I apologize doctor Amber Kron,
and I will make those corrections and go back my
apologies for that.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
And I appreciate you sharing your story.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I want to hear more because everybody doesn't just go
out and get a pad and everybody doesn not only
get a PAHD but decide I'm not doing what academia
wants me to do by working in it. I want
to do what I want to do. So if you
could share with us the journey even being a you know,
coming to the States early on and then just deciding
like this is what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
So let's go back. You talked about culture, your background.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Let's get a little more detail for the listeners of
your transition to the States and just moving through academia
to get to where you are now.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, so I you know, I came as a child,
So that's really kind of where it was all still
me trying to put the pieces together what that means.
I think anyone who comes to this country, even as
a child, and even as you try to, you know,
make sense of where you lived your childhood and then

(08:59):
where you are, I'm still trying to figure that out. Honestly,
I think we all are, aren't We all trying to
figure out where it all started and how we ended
up here. So so I think that piece of it
was very It was easier, I think in a sense,
just because I was younger, and so you know, I

(09:19):
share this now. I think I shared this now very confidently.
Maybe not so much when I was a teen, but
now I'm like, you know what, English was a second
language for me, So there you go. It was a
second language for me. And that's okay, and I'm proud
of that, you know, it's and I think, you know,
when you go through the different phases of your life,
you still try to have you still try to navigate

(09:40):
what it means to really come into your identity. And
I think the profession really pushes us to do that.
The counseling profession really makes you look at yourself real good,
you know, it does. We look at right, we look
at our things, we look at our identity, we look
at all these things. And so part of this has
also been the profession has really you know, my training

(10:03):
has really pushed me to do that too a little
bit more. But but yeah, I think that piece of
it was easier just because I was younger. And but again,
you know, I'm in the South, So there's nowhere you
can really go growing up here in North Carolina that
you're not going to be reminded that you are an immigrant,

(10:26):
you know, in some way, shape or form. So even
if you can speak the language, even if you can
whatever you know you are, it's still very much a
core part of your identity that you are from a
different background. So I think that's been just a lifelong
thing that I've had to get used to, but I

(10:48):
think a lot of people have had to get used
to just in this country in general. You have to really,
you have to really know that that's just part of
our experience in this country is that, you know, we
have differences and then also obviously finding that common ground.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
So yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Because of the nature of this show, we go deep,
and when we go deep, what that looks like is
going to the basement. So sometimes we got to spend
some time in the basement, and what you're sharing is
a basement feeling emotion connection. And for a lot of
listeners from different parts of the country, different parts of
the world, they may not know what that's like. They

(11:29):
may not know the ins and out of navigating this
country as a person of color, as someone who migrated
here or family migrated here first generation, like, they may
not know. So if you don't mind sharing what those
some of those experiences or things are that you've experienced.
You know, even though in your second language, you're here,
you're you're a citizen, you're treated or or people share

(11:51):
things with you that may not align to who you are.
So if you don't mind sharing a little more about
those lived experiences.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, yeah, So I think I have to keep it
keep it real with this question, because the reality is
there's a privilege that comes with being South Asian, Right,
There's a privilege that comes with it because of the
stereotypes and the bias, and then there's also a negative
piece that comes with it. And I think there's layers, right,
we all have these intersecting identities it's not just what

(12:20):
you look like, it's your faith, it's your whatever, whatever
it is that makes you stand out. So so I'm
not I'm not oblivious to the privilege I have because
of the stereotypes that are associated with South Asians, which
a lot of times didn't apply necessarily to my, you know,
my situation, because I think I've seen the extreme highs

(12:43):
and lows in my life, right and not every immigrant
that comes to this country is coming from a place
of you know, crisis or war or what have you. Like,
They're not coming here from from that space. And and
I was not one. I was not one of those
families where, you know, I came from situation where my

(13:06):
dad was very successful in our home country. He was
at the federal level and he you know, he worked
for the federal government and he was very successful in
his career. So coming here, we had to start rock bottom,
you know. So it was kind of like this high
and low of just because that's just the experience. And

(13:26):
I'm sure many people hear this about people who come
from other countries, is you just have to start fresh
a lot of times because a lot of what made
sense abroad or what worked there, it doesn't work here,
you really really do have to start fresh. So I
think one of the challenges is definitely starting fresh. That's

(13:47):
an experience that I think I can say a lot
of us across the board who've had this experience can
say that we've felt But again, I'm not going to
take away from the privilege and the bias and the
stereotypes that come with it. But then it also you know,
makes you that model minority where things are not always easy,

(14:10):
and then you're also you're also branded as like you know,
you have it all and you know it all, and
that's not the case because I've had to work. I
started working when I was fourteen, fourteen years old, that's
when I made my first dollar, so you know, it
wasn't working out somewhere. It was just you know, babysitting
and all that. But I started working at fourteen years

(14:32):
old and I know that. So I think it's it's
really recognizing that not everybody's experience is you know, we
can't just label it as what we see it. But
I don't know if that makes any.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Sense, but that's it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, lots of layers to it.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, Yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Makes a lot of sense if you could, because some
of the listeners may not know. You know, serious heights
are generalizations about people, and you know, it's a stereo
type is generalization, so it's not.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
A fact behind it.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
And you are sharing, you know, there's positive and negative
stereotypes that you've experienced. Would you mind sharing what those
positive or negative or both experiences are for people that
don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, so gosh, doctor Branche, we are really going there,
aren't we? The basement that's what you're calling, and that
we're gonna talk about the weather the basement. So yeah,
I think, you know, definitely. I mean there's layers to

(15:33):
my experience, you know, yeah, being a woman, being South Asian,
I'm Muslim, so my religion is also different, and I'm
not somebody who is just gonna not And I think
there are also people who try to sort of overshadow
some of those things about them because they don't want
to appear whatever way, because they know that this is

(15:55):
what's happening. I think we're coming out of that, especially
after COVID and especially after the murder of George Floyd. Like,
I think there's a lot of you know, coming to
the reality and coming to our senses of what is
the real experience of people in this country. But I think,
you know, we're I don't know. I think the negative

(16:18):
stereotypes is just being judged on not being part of
the norm. That could be anything from you know, being
not being helped in certain places and not being overlooked
for certain things, having to definitely work harder just to
prove myself in certain spaces. And then on the positive

(16:42):
side of you know, the positive stereotypes is like, you know,
you must be smart, you must not have to work
this hard for whatever, or you must be privileged because
you whatever, because this is the stereotype about you know,
certain communities, And it's like, no, actually, I do have
to work hard, really really hard. I have to really
really spend time trying to absorb and understand certain things.

(17:04):
It's not that easy. So I think it goes it
goes both ways.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
So yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I really really appreciate your authenticity, sharing your truth. This
is the space for it and for the listeners. You know,
oftentimes we're not aware, we're not aware of other people's
lived experiences because we may be consumed by our own
or not even considered, or may not even know anyone
from a different place or different country, or to be
able to have these conversations with So I appreciate you

(17:31):
sharing your truth and being in the basement with me.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
It's it's the basement is dark, it's scary.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
We don't really spend a lot of time in there,
but on this show we do because all of us
have a basement. All of us have a home, and
that home is the person. The attic is our mind,
and we spend a lot of time in that attic.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
It's nice.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
I mean, it's prestine, you can relax, it's big screen TV.
You got a wine bar. I mean, it's really nice.
In an attic that's in our mind. That's where we
spend a lot of time. The living room is our present.
This is where we are present. We can really the
living room usually we got our shoes and socks off,
we rubbing our feet together.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
You know, it's comfort. And then you have the basement.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
The basement is where those feelings, those emotions, that truth,
that lived experience is and sometimes we got to go
down there to bring those things up. So I really
appreciate you taking that, having courage to go there with
me in real time so I want to switch gears
a moment. We can get out of the basement for
a moment, because I'm curious to know your trajectory to
get into the helping profession, Like, how did that happen?

(18:30):
What started it? You know, what inspired you to decide
this is direction that I want to go.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
So well, it's interesting that I'm a counselor and then
you know, and then a school count. You know, I'm
still licensed, still got my license school counseling license, and
I feel like it's interesting that you know, you're trained
to try to help people with their careers and just
kind of identifying what they want to do, because I
feel like for me it was never I think some

(18:57):
people know, they know, they're like ooh, ooh, and that's
what I'm going to be. They're like five years old
and they're like, this is what I'm going to be.
And I'm like, it was never like that for me,
and I am okay to you know say that. I
don't think I just never felt like, ooh, this is

(19:17):
going to be me, Like I am just drawn to
this particular field people. I think it was really now
me doing psychology, I actually have a also have a
minor in public health and minor in biology from my
undergrad and so I kind of had this interest in

(19:38):
going into pharmacy, and so I tested that out for
a few months and I was like, Nope, not for me,
because it just felt so it just felt so such
like a cold environment and it was just you know,
so I knew, like, I mean, again, we're in the
you know, we're in the healthcare profession, but we're not
in that side of it with counseling. So I felt

(20:02):
like I just needed something that was just more in
line with my spirit. And so I just did not
do that. I tested it out and just really went
into the practical environment and I was like, this is
not me. I'm not going to do this. And then
just really I feel I think I can really credit
my best friends for you know, really helping me sort
this out, because we do have these long conversations and

(20:24):
when we get together, it's like no time has passed.
We can sit there for hours and talk. And it
was really my two of my best friends who came
back home for you know, some break or some weekend,
and we were just sitting there talking and I think
this was like what fifteen years ago, and we were
just talking and talking and I'm like, I don't know

(20:44):
what I want to do with psychology, and so what
do I do because that's what I chose as my
my bachelor's I'm like, I don't know what I want
to do. And so they're like, you know what, Amber,
you are really really great at listening, your supportive, you're caring,
your kind. You should really check out, you know, some

(21:07):
counseling burgers because that's just so you. And I'm like, oh,
so it's their fault because they turned you know, they
turned me to you know this, you know, just this idea,
this thought. So I started exploring, and I knew I
wanted to get my graduate degree because that is something

(21:29):
that was definitely ingrained in me as a child. Education
was very very important to my father. He was the
only person in his family to go to college. He
came from a very remote village, but he was very successful,
so he's had the he also had those very you know,
highs and lows in his life, and so he really
ingrained the idea of getting an education and definitely getting

(21:53):
a graduate degree from you know, a younger age. So
I was like, I know, I want to go to
grad school, and so I looked into counseling and it's
really sometimes others see you in a way that you
don't see yourself, and they're like you, you like to
help people, and you are this and you're that, and
you have these qualities that you should really check out

(22:15):
counseling program. So that's where it all started. But but
I think, if I'm being honest with you, doctor Branch,
I can do that, right. So I feel like this
is different. This is different from that starting point of
it's not so much helping people, it's like walking with them.
It just it looks very different from what people think.

(22:37):
You know, when you know whoever listens to this and
if they're thinking about it, and I, you know, I'm
not teaching right now, but when I do teach, I
say that to to students who I'm like, you know,
this is not like you just giving advice or you
just helping whoever. And so I had to adjust to
that too, if I'm being honest, I had to adjust

(22:58):
to what it means to help people.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
So tell us more about that adjusting to helping people.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Because it sounds like you had a definition at one
point in time, and that definition has changed.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, well, you know, the whole advice thing I really
had to understand. You know, how do you apply theories,
how do you apply how do you apply the skills
of counseling into the space when you're with your clients?
How do you do that? And how do you not
just go go out there and just go, hey, you

(23:31):
know you should do I think you should break up
with so and so, or hey, I think you should
probably just quit or hey, I think you should like
it's not you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, right, that's not right. So that I love.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I'm so glad you're talking about this because that's the
human side. That's the human side of all of us.
We just want to give advice. We want to tell
people what we do, what to do. We want to
tell people what we think and what's best for them.
That's the human side as most of us. As a therapist,
we're trained not to do that. It's a skill set
to develop to not give advice or tell people your
thoughts or your opinion about things.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
And for the listeners who don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
As a client counselor or counselor educator, our job is
not to give advice because if we did, and it
worked out that client would always come to us for
advice instead of making those decisions themselves. If it didn't
work out, they're going to blame us. So instead of
us being responsible for either side, it's best that we
don't even get involved as far as giving advice. So

(24:31):
I'm glad you brought this up because a lot of
people don't know what we do as therapists, so I
appreciate you cleaning that up.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, so that's something for me that I really had
to adjust to, and I really had to learn how
to bring myself into be authentically me into the space
because oh my god, I was so awkward. Like I
was trained as a school counseor, but I was very
awkward in the clinical setting. So I still remember doing

(24:59):
my my you know, my clinical sessions with clients and
it was it was not me. I felt like a
brook Bot and you know, and then that led to
wait a second, you got some you got a whole
lot of work you need to do. So I think
for me, I became a much much much better, much

(25:22):
better counselor, practitioner, teacher after I did my own work.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
So yeah, to take a moment you listen, y'all getting
hit in the head with a honeybone right now. Y'all
need to know that. Okay, Amber's dropping gems. Make sure
you get your journal, your Gator Scales journal. Write these
concepts down, write these thoughts down, because I hope you're
picking up the themes at Amber Share. Because the things
that I heard was related to, uh, choosing you deciding

(25:52):
to be yourself, removing these thoughts and beliefs of who
you have to be, and deciding who you're going to
be and just going against the grain and instead of
asking for permission, asking for forgiveness.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
That's what I heard. I don't know what y'all heard.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
So Amber, if you don't mind sharing, how did you
go from that place of being, you know, like you
described a robot to discovering this doesn't work for me
and I'm going to choose to be more authentic. How
did you do that on top of what you just
shared with us of how it is being, you know,
being different in this country and how you're treated differently
to get enough confidence and courage to say few.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I'm doing it my way. So I'm curious how did
you get there?

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well, it took a minute. It took a minute, and
getting older helps, so you know, like the whole thing
we were talking about, like being in the basement, and
so you know what, I don't mind being in the basement,
and I think that's just part of getting older, right.
So I think age has also been a huge factor
and just me being okay, like I am authentically me
sitting in front of you right now, like I don't

(26:56):
have any reservations on you know what this is. This
is what it is, and I think but I do
think I think the culture and society that we have
set up here as a nation, we are so focused
on the individual aspect of everything and just trying to

(27:19):
get through each thing on our own and just kind
of really focused on not being as open or sharing, right.
Like that's a real struggle for a lot of people
in this country. And that's why loneliness is such an
epidemic right in this country. It is just such a
huge issue. Is a lot of I think a lot

(27:40):
of mental health also lends to that, but but I
think part of it is just navigating our day to day,
you know, just being so withdrawn from and not being
able to share and therefore not knowing what's really going

(28:01):
into the emotions and really going into that place where
we really understand who we are. So unless we do
that work in counseling or through some other avenue. It
doesn't have to be counseling, but it has to be.
The healing has to happen. And especially if you know,
any of us who have experienced anything traumatic, if we
don't come out of that or don't process it, you know,

(28:23):
it's going to get in the way of helping anybody.
It's gonna be a wall in that room. Absolutely, and
you're gonna be putting a desk in between you and
the other person. But you know what, that's just you
know there's a wall, and that's that wall is there
because you haven't dealt with the actual issues or whatever.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
So ooh, you dropping gyms?

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I told you, I told you to. Who's gonna hit you
in the head with a honeybone? I hope y'all paying attention.
So as a therapist, now, now this is huge. This
is huge at the highest level because you're at the
highest level academia as a therapist deciding or even a
therapist in training at the time, deciding to get a
therapist and work with a therapist and even now, how
did you make that transition because a lot of people

(29:09):
within this profession.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
We don't have to. It's not required.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
So you can go through this entire program as a
master student or doc student and finish on the other
side and never experience therapy for yourself. So it's not
it's choice based. We get to choose. How did you choose? Okay,
I think it's time to go. I think it's time
to see somebody and not only just think it, but
actually do it and still doing it.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Tell us more about that.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, well, I think, well, I think stress really signaled
that it wasn't anything that was you know, explained by
some other factors. So it's like, okay, how do I
navigate the stress? And I think this works because I
have a PhD in it, So let me just you know,
and I didn't. I didn't. I'll be honest too, I did.

(29:56):
I never went to see a counselor until I got
my PhD. So I have a PhD yeah, in something,
and I've never gone to get counseling for myself. Should
have done that sooner.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's huge. That's huge.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's yes, that's exactly what I was mentioning like it's
not required as a counselor in training, you didn't have
to so and we're not usually volunteering for that, even
though we're doing it, practicing it, learning about teaching it,
we're not doing it. And and you even still getting
all the way to the finish line and finishing you
then decideed.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Some people never decide. So what was that? What was
that shift?

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, well, yeah, I think just just a leap of faith,
like I know this works obviously because I have a
PhD in it, so let me let me try, let
me test this out. And it worked, But it was
it was It was tough because again I think culture
and who we are and who we are with the
person who is our therapist. That makes a huge difference too,

(31:01):
because a lot of times we feel that we have
to show up to that space and you feel very
vulnerable because you're like out here sharing all the things.
So you want the person that you're going to to
understand that cultural aspect too. So there was a bit
of resistance for me for sure, Like it took a minute.

(31:22):
It took a minute for me to go, okay, this
is you know, this is a lot Like I don't
know if I want to do this, you know. But
and also because of the culture, because again I come
from a culture, and that's part of the reason why
I still have a private practice, because I've been able
to really work with a lot of people, a lot

(31:42):
of immigrants here, you know, in Central North Carolina, from
all of who've come here from all over the world.
I worked with clients from Central America, South America, from
Eastern Europe, from Africa, from Asia, all over the world
who are immigrants to Central North Carolina, and it's their
experience of Ooh, I'm not supposed to talk about this

(32:04):
in my culture. So I'm not supposed to because everything
is hush hush, like you're not supposed to sit there
and talk about your thoughts and feelings and emotions with
a stranger like that's your family stuff. Just bury it,
pray it away, pray about it, you know. And that's
why it was even hard for me coming from a
culture like that, because you don't do that, you know,

(32:28):
you have other ways you deal with it, you know.
That piece and then also really being in that space
to provide a space where people feel like they can
come to someone they don't have to explain themselves, like
I think that layer of having to explain yourself, you know,
like I am, you know, like your experience, that's tough.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
So yeah, wow, wow, I appreciate you for sharing your
truth and just being honest and authentic, which is exactly
what you mentioned before, like allowing yourself to be authentic.
And you had several barriers, You had several layers, You
have several walls that you broke down and chose to
broke down to become this version of you, which is

(33:12):
it's phenomenal. You know, a lot of people don't do
that and they don't have a quarter of the barriers
that you had to overcome just to get here to
this space. So how did you make the transition from
a master's student or graduating to I'm gonna go further?
You know you mentioned, you know, with your family and
cultural yeah, I can at least get a master's degree.
But you didn't stop there. You said I'm gonna go

(33:33):
further and get my PhD. I'm gonna be doctor Cohn
in these streets. So what happened? What transition for you
decided I'm gonna keep going.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, I had I was very very blessed I had
the best experience at North Carolina A and T. As
a master student, I had an absolutely amazing experience, And
I do appreciate the HPCU environment for really cultivating and
creating a community, a sense of community that I had
not felt before in any educational institution. So I really

(34:05):
really had a phenomenal experience as a master's level student
and had the best professors, and so many of them,
you know, when I finished my program, so many of
them were like, you're not done. You need to go,
you need to go further. There's so much more that
you need to do. Just go a little bit farther

(34:26):
in this field. So I believe the mentorship that I
received after my master's program was very, very pivotal in
staying in touch with the faculty. And during my master's program,
I was trying to make up for some of the
things that I did not do during undergrad. During undergrad
I worked two jobs. There was like a lot of

(34:48):
life things that I was dealing with in undergrad, so
I worked two jobs. I would go on campus, come
right back out, get in my car, just leave. During
my master's program, I was very involved. I was in
student government, I was doing all kinds of things and
just really loving what I was doing as a student.
And I will say A and T made me great,

(35:09):
Like I am so grateful for all that That master's
experience really poured into who I am as a professional,
and I just really found, you know, my confidence, lots
of nurturing and lots of just it was a great experience.
So that was a really easy decision for me to
make at that moment. It was like, Okay, let's go,
let's keep going. Yeah, so that I'm grateful for that

(35:33):
because I don't know, if you know, everybody gets that
level of just that support and encouragement.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So yeah, So curious what made you decide to go
to HBCU. And for the listeners who don't know, HBCUs
a historically black colleges and university, So you could have
went anywhere, but you decided to go to HBCU.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
What's the story behind that?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
So I was, well, I've been on A and T's
campus as a child. Well, my dad actually came to
this country through this program with the Department of State
and with our you know, our country, and it was
just like this collaboration. So he came here as a

(36:18):
federal employee to get his masters at North Carolina A
and T. So I was a child on that campus,
like that was like one of the first places I
went to when I came to North Carolina So and
of course my dad always talked so highly about what
a great school it was, and we were there, and
so I always knew and he's a great school. And

(36:39):
then it's in my hometown and so and it was
a great experience. Like when I did the interview for
my master's program, it was really great. It was the
first program that I actually applied to. And then I
went to the interview, felt like this clicks, like this
just feels right, and it was great.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
It I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
So transitioning to the doc program, if you could share
with us that transition and you deciding, because you know,
from my experience in the doc program, I felt very
similar to you of you know, you're getting this PAHD
to work as a professor, You're getting this pad to
work in academia, work for twenty thirty years, retire, get
a gold watch, and call the day I was taught

(37:24):
the same thing you were and that didn't work for you,
and you decided, like I can use these transferable skills
to do something else. How did you how did you
make that transitioning and get involved in the doc program?

Speaker 3 (37:37):
So moving you mean moving away from academia or just
going into the.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Right going into the program. What school did you go to?

Speaker 1 (37:46):
You know, how did you make the transition from a
master student into a doc student and then being a
doc student where you were told all these different things
and you chose to do the complete opposite, right right.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I know, un conventional and yeah, so yeah, I think,
you know, I think I went into it again just
from that encouragement, that mentorship, like you should do your
doc program. I also did my doc program at A
and T, so I decided to stay at the same institution.
And it was it was you know, I think it

(38:22):
was a it was tough. I think every doc program
out there, we would be lying if any of us
said it's not tough. It's tough. It's challenging, there's some bumps.
So that it just didn't it was just not my
calling when I finished. It was just not you know,
aligning with what I wanted to do then five years ago.

(38:44):
But now where I am now, I love teaching. I
love it. It's been and then the students have really
reassured me and that too, you know, they've really reassured
me and what I'm bringing into the space because of
I think it just it just aligns. It goes back
to that whole working on yourself. Because you work on yourself,

(39:06):
everything else really also aligned. So just in that moment,
you know, when I finished, I wasn't quite ready to
go into academia. I just didn't align. But now I
love teaching. I love it, and I love when I'm
with with our fellows because that really allows me. This
brings out this energy that you get in the classroom.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, so, oh man, I love it. I love it. Well.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
When you ready to get back into the classroom full time,
you let me know in any way I can make
some magic happen. And for the listeners, I know y'all
can make some magic happen. This is a great counselor educator.
This is one of those professors that is that changes
the lives of students. You're doing it already, it's just
being in certain environments where you can do it even more.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
So when you're ready, you let.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Me know that the listeners don't We're gonna put your
own it's gonna happen. So next piece, before we get
out of here, I got a few rapid fire questions
for you. So I'm curious to know. We're curious to know.
What would you say is your most proudest moment or accomplishment?

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Oh wow, who.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (40:16):
That is that is a big question. I think.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, we were back in the basement. As you can
see this show. We we kind of just go all
through your house. We all in your business, and that's
what makes the show so great.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, I think it goes back to to the education
piece because you know, it's it's it was. It was
definitely part of what I was taught growing up just
to value education. So it definitely has to do with
just being able to get to this point with my
education and and get to where I am. That is

(40:53):
that has been my you know, my proudest accomplishment and
and just to be able to share kind of the
height of that with my dad, you know, before he
passed last year, he was just so proud of all
the different ways that I could use you know, the

(41:14):
education and how it opens doors. Because we know it's
not just about teaching. We know it's not just about whatever.
There's so much value and the abundance of opportunity that
comes with it. You know, there's just so much more
than just one thing that education does for you. So
I would say it's definitely that.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
So yeah, I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And thank you, my consultancies, to you and your family.
Listening your follow last year and having this proud moment
that he saw it, he saw doctor KHN, which is
a big deal. So thank you for sharing that that
moment with us. You've been all over, You've seen a
lot of different things. You work with a lot of
different people. I'm curious to know all these years, what

(41:57):
would you say you've learned about people?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Oh my goodness, doctor Branch again, where do I start?
Where do I start? Well, oh my, I have so
much to say about this.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
We got time, We got time.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
I have so much to say. Well, I'll start with
me and how I come into spaces no matter what.
And this is driven, This is driven by no matter
what I encounter, because oh yes, I have encountered some
I've encountered some difficult things in my life, definitely, And

(42:41):
I think difficult moments, difficult situations and just having to
navigate that but I am going to just talk about
what I do. Do I lose my patience, yes we
all do, But how I show up? And this is
driven by culture, This is driven by faith. This is
driven by just again a more healed person than I was, like,

(43:04):
you know several years ago, is just coming into the
space with a community mindset. I like to come into
a space. Yes I do put others before me in
terms of how are you feeling, how are you doing?
Just kind of making them comfortable. But that's driven, you know,
again by my faith, It's driven by my culture. It's

(43:26):
like make looking out, it's really looking out for who
you are interacting with. And I believe that changes not
just your own experience, but it changes the experience of
the person you're interacting with because you don't even know it,
but you might have been the only one that day
to you know, really have that sort of interaction with.

(43:48):
So but that was intention That was very very intentional
for me. That was a switch for me, you know,
where I decided that that is how I'm going to
approach relationship ships with people, not come in selfishly like
what can I get out of this? You know, That's
not how I approach interactions with people. My approach is,

(44:13):
are we all okay? How you doing checking in? Yeah?
That's very very very important to me on a personal level,
and it has changed everything, you.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Know, So yeah, oh man, this is so good. This
is so good.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Get your scales, journal, write these notes, write these notes.
Next question you. That's that's related to people. And I
love how you you you pivot. You created a pivot, like,
let me share how I come, how I show up
dropping gems. So I'm curious, what would you say you've
learned about yourself after all these years?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Well, okay, okay, I will I will say this. I did.
I have reflected on this a lot a self sabotage, right,
I think there's a there's a you know, I told
you about intention and how we show up and how
we live our life and how we do things in
our life. So intention is very important to me. It's
something that I think about often when I'm thinking about

(45:16):
how I move about. I'm not perfect, but I do
reflect on how I move about in the world. So
I think if it's important for me not to show
up in a kind of just just full of myself,
like that's not okay with me? Like I don't want
to be a narcissist to show up in the situation
like no, Like it's but you have to love you

(45:39):
have to love yourself. You have to love yourself. That's
very very, very very important. And you cannot self sabotage.
You cannot show up into a space and say I
don't deserve this, or I'm not good enough for this
or that, you know, moment of am I really worthy?

(46:00):
Is this going to?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Is this?

Speaker 3 (46:02):
You know, just whatever those intrusive thoughts are that get
in the way of, you know, just self sabotage because
that alone will destroy so many things in your life,
so many moments, so many opportunities. Yes, that's what I've
learned about myself. I'm like, dang, girl, you showed up
and you were you self sabotage.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Why did you do that?

Speaker 3 (46:27):
So it's like the moment of or just finding the balance,
like you can't show up like again, I don't want
to be a narcissist, but I also don't want to
be you know, just you know, on the on the
complete opposite of that. So, yeah, what I've learned is
it's a constant conversation with me too, bringing myself to.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
The core like, yes, you know, yes, yes, you're describing
the podcast perfectly. You're describing who you were, who you are,
and who you're becoming. And there's a cost in conversation
between all three of those individuals who you were. I
ain't got room for you no more. We're not self sabotizing.
That's what you're telling. That's what your current self is telling,
your old self, and your better self, your healthier self is.

(47:11):
We don't even talk about self sabotaged because it's not
even a topic of conversation. We're showing up as us.
Look at you in the head with a honey bond.
Next question, what's a word, phrase, memory, or moment that
has stuck with you personally or professionally.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Wow? Okay, oh man, that's hard, that's hard. I think
moments with loved ones. I do believe what we have.
I know that sounds so cheesy, like on a bumper sticker,
but it's true. It's true. It's like that these moments

(47:57):
are so limited, Like this moment that we have right
now is so so so limited, it's so temporary, and
so I think the moments that really stick with me
are the moments really truly with my family, and where
I'm most at peace is when I'm with my family.
It's just like okay, like I'm really genuinely just like

(48:20):
I just zone out. I'm like at peace. I'm not
like like on edge and just you know, have anxiety,
none of that. Like when I'm with my family, I'm like,
you know what, I am so so lucky and so
grateful because this is heaven. I think when you I've
really really had to learn and I will do a

(48:40):
podcast on this at some point, maybe not a podcast,
a video, I don't know, but I feel like there's
a moment of really really really processing what's been a
huge part of my experience over the past few years
is just grief and really overcoming loss, not just the
loss of my dad but so many other family members
and really wrecking the moment that we have in front

(49:03):
of us. It's you don't even know it. Some of
these moments you're in heaven, like you don't even know it.
It's like the most beautiful moment you have in front
of you and you don't even know it.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Oh, doctor con doctor Conn, thank you for all of this,
all of this. You're just constantly giving of yourself, and
I'm thankful for it because a lot of people in
your position don't do this, and this is why the
podcast is so needed and necessary. Sometimes this is specifically
for all of you listening. Sometimes we get caught up
in people's credentials, you know, the stories we've heard, the

(49:39):
things that we see, and we don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Who they are.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
And this podcast is to help all of us get
to see people for who they are.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
And that's people, all of us. If we strip everything away,
the money that is title to.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Prestige, what you have is a person and a person
that has a lived experience and a story that we
don't often get to hear. So this podcast gives us
an opportunity to hear. So with that, we're gonna go
a onemost step further in that basement, an interesting fact
about doctor con that nobody knows, or there's not a
lot of people that know that you're open to share

(50:12):
with us, what would it be?

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Oh lord, I think i've quite a bit here.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
If you had enough, it's okay if you had.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
You know, I'm trying to think of something, you know,
something interesting. I don't know. I think I've shared a
lot of sort of I don't know what's what's something
that people don't know?

Speaker 2 (50:38):
So here's another one.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Let's let's let's let's shift this because you like to shift,
you like to pivot, just like I do. Uh, let's
shift it. What's something that people wouldn't believe about?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Doctor con I mean, yep, that's it, I.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Think, I think, But it could go either way. I
think it could go either way. I believe people may
may perceive me as that. They may perceive me as like,
you know, she's pretty whatever, tough, and then others might
be like, no, she's just soft spoken whatever. But I

(51:20):
think people don't realize that it takes a lot to
knock me down. I'm pretty tough, so I fight back.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
So I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I'm glad I never had to fight without I never
had to fight because it sounds like I would take
an ale. So last thing is not even a question
for you. But it's your opportunity to impact the listeners.
And how I perceive us to make impact is by
givings of something, and that's something I consider to be
life work.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
So life work is similar to homework.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
But homework you take it home, you do it, you
turn it back in you never remember it again. Life work,
you take it home, you do it, your life will change. So,
doctor Con, if you don't mind sharing with the listeners
a keepsake to the audience, something that you would share
with them that could be considered life work, something for
them to do that could possibly change their lives.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
I think we touched on it a couple of things,
you know, during this hour. One of those is just
working on ourselves right and just not being afraid to
do that. So I would definitely encourage people to take
that step. And we're all a work in progress, so

(52:41):
definitely make sure that you take those steps. And also
know what and I'll sound very much like a counselor
when I say this, know how much support is really
truly out there, even in the the type of environment

(53:01):
that we're in. Know that there is so much out there,
you just have to be brave enough to ask for it.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
So it sounds like with this life work that you're offering,
it's an opportunity for all of you as listeners to
do something you've never done before and consider you. That's
what dot con is talking about. And I love that
you shared your story. As I mentioned, you have an
incredible story and we're just getting a lot of the
pieces around it, but it's so much depth to it.

(53:31):
And I appreciate all that you shared. I appreciate you
joining us today and just being who you are authentically.
So if people want to connect with you, if they
want to reach out, if they want to find out
about NBCC, if they want to learn about you or
North Carolina, ant, how can people get in touch with you?

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah, so they can contact me through NBCC. They can
reach out through our website at nbccf dot org or
and you can find all of our information on there.
So that's a good way to stay in touch. And yeah,
and I appreciate you, doctor Brands. You are just an

(54:12):
incredible leader, professional human being, just so genuine and that
is something that has been conveyed through just your interaction
with everyone that you come across.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
I greatly appreciate the love I receive my flowers.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I really do. I'm glad we both can give and
receive flowers. It's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
And I just want to share and spread more love,
more joy, more life, more humanism, especially within our profession. Yes,
this is the health and profession, but there's a lot
of helping professionals who need help, and to me, this
podcast is that introduction of let's look at me, let's
look at us for a moment. So I appreciate you
sharing your truth, being authentic, being present, being available and

(55:00):
making it happen.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Yeah. Great, good to hear, Good to hear. So this concludes.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
Another phenomenal episode of the Three Parallels podcast with your host,
doctor Jason Branch, where we discover who we were, who
we are, who were becoming. You got a lot of
information today. Don't leave it here, don't leave it on
the podcast, don't leave it in your ears. Share the information,
share the professional professionalism, Share the information that can be transformative.
If it impacts you, it can impact someone else. Share

(55:31):
it with that person. Much love to you all. Have
a great day, night, week, month, or morning for life.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Be

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Faith, Culture & Finding Self: Dr. Amber Khan’s Journey to Authenticity and Healing | Ft. Dr. Amber Khan