May 28, 2025 • 55 mins
As we move forward through our career, perhaps it’s time to consider some bigger aspirations beyond professional advancement—especially as we get older and ponder our legacy. How might we create a significant contribution to making a better world? In today’s episode, I talk with Emiliana Vegas and Harvard professor and author of the recent book, “Let’s Change the World,” who has spent her career focusing on issues to improve the educational opportunities in the so-called Global South—Latin America, the Caribbean and other developing regions. Dr. Vegas offers a practical and encouraging guide for everyone, no matter their age, who wants to make a positive change through their professional life—from ensuring access to quality schools and clean water, to improving healthcare and creating safer communities. Finding global institutions on that path are often difficult to understand, hard to get into, and even harder to navigate. Dr. Vegas, who has 20 years of experience working in international development organizations, will not only describe her own personal and professional journey, but provide a compendium of insider tips, best practices, and targeted advice, offering a blueprint for all of us determined to be a force for good.
GUEST CONTACT INFORMATION:
Contact: emiliana_vegas@gse.harvard.edu
Website: https://www.emilianavegas.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EmiVegasV
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emivegasv/
X: @EmiVegasv
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
GUEST CONTACT INFORMATION:
Contact: emiliana_vegas@gse.harvard.edu
Website: https://www.emilianavegas.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EmiVegasV
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emivegasv/
X: @EmiVegasv
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to forty five Forward with host, journalist and speaker
Ron row Out. Ron's mission is to make your second
half of life even better than your first. Most of
us are just approaching our half life when we reach
the mid forties, with many productive years ahead. Ron is
here to help prepare us for this kind of longevity
(00:29):
by providing vital strategies to shift the traditional waiting for
retirement model to a continuous, evolving journey of compelling life chapters.
So now please welcome the host of forty five Forward,
Ron row Out.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hello, everyone, Welcome to forty five Forward. I'm your host
on Ron Rowell. As we move forward in our careers,
I'm sure many of you, like me, start thinking about
bigger aspirations than just career advancement. What's going to be
our contribution to the world. What's our legacy? On today's show,
we talk exactly about that. I'll be talking with the
(01:25):
Emiliana Vegas, who's a professor at the Harvard Graduate School
of Education and author of the recent book Let's Change
the World. She's spent her career focusing on issues to
improve the educational opportunities of what's known as the global South.
Latin America, the Caribbean and other development countries. Doctor Vegas
will offer a practical and encouraging guide for everyone, no
(01:47):
matter what their age, who wants to make a positive
change through their professional life. So now let's meet our guest,
am In Lyana Vegas. Ameniana, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thank you, Ron, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it's a real pleasure. So there's a lot to
talk about in the book, But first, I am always
interested in the lives of my guests as well, and
you can find out if you had a forty five
forward actually on my website ROL Resources dot com and
tap on the forty five forward tad. There's a brief buyo.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
That.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But I just wanted to hear a little bit because
I find my guests have fascinating lives. Talk a little
about how you got into this field.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, I was very fortunate in many ways. One of
the more important ways in which I was fortunate is
my parents were big believers in the power of education,
and while they had not themselves been highly educated, my
father dropped out of college to come work for the
family business in Venezuela, where I'm originally from South America.
(02:53):
My mother had just finished high school. When she married
my father and they had us very young. They had
a cparently, according to them, made a pact even when
they were dating, that all their children would have, you know,
better educational opportunities than they had, and in particular that
we would attend boarding schools in the US for our
(03:14):
high school education. And that was really transformative to me.
After you know, attending a four year boarding school in Connecticut,
which was academically challenging and also very enriching in many
extracurricular opportunities, I returned to Venezuela for college, and I
(03:35):
realized quickly that I was in one of the best
programs in one of the top universities, surrounded by some
of the best students, and that my training, my you know,
the skills I had learned at eth A Walker School
in Connecticut had really given me an edge, a huge
advantage in terms of how I knew how to learn
(03:57):
how to organize my time so that I was more productive,
and I ended up getting really you know, high grades
without necessarily working as hard as I had before. And
I concluded, you know, and I probably wouldn't have said
it in so many words, but that probably Venezuela was
not the sort of growing economy and thriving country that
(04:18):
it could be because of a failing education system. And
that's how I decided to you know, really develop my
studies and yeah, at that point, to learn more about
how to improve education and later to actually work in
the field.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. Yeah, So for those who don't know, talk a
little bit about international development, what's the feel entail.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The field is, and it involves really helping low income
countries and middle income countries get to to get to
levels of that are more common in high income countries
like the US, where even though there are still challenges
and there are pockets of poverty, overall average incomes are
(05:01):
high with respect to the rest of the world. You
have good, adequate infrastructure in most of the country, you
have good services water, health, sanitation, education, of course, and
so it's really it's a it's a group of organizations
that were primarily started after World War two to transfers
(05:25):
not just funding but also technical capacity to help. Initially
it was really rebuilding Europe, and later it became well,
let's help other countries that are in similar situations improve
and so that's what the field is about.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And the field has broken down into different kinds of
organizations and then and you've described them that I guess
there are like five different areas that you can go
into and you went into Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So I you know, divided them and sort of easy
to understand way. And I did it by the primary
function of each of these types of institutions. But many
of them do more than just that one function. So
one of the groups I call them the global funders,
and these are organizations like the World Bank, the International
(06:18):
Monetary Fund, the Inter American Development Bank.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I've worked in many of these institutions.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Where at least in two of them, not many, and
also many bilateral funders like the Canadian International Development Agency,
the UK International Foreign Commonwealth, etc. Formerly USAID here in
the United States. And these are organizations that they're primarily
mended is to really provide loans and grants to law
(06:46):
and middle inco countries. But in doing so, they also
provide a lot of capacity strengthening let's call it technical assistance.
They conduct research. That's where people like me come in.
The second type of organist, say, is what I call conveners.
So the best known would be the United Nations. Their
organizations whose primary mandate again is to convene the key stakeholders,
(07:10):
either precedents or ministers or a sector, to share experiences
and set common goals for and set common agendas. The
third type is what I call advisors, So there are
for profit and nonprofit organizations who you know, work as
advisors consultants to both governments around the world, but also
(07:34):
these international organizations. And the fourth type is what I
call implementers. So these are organizations that actually have boots
on the ground, be it the World Food Program, the
World Health organizations, Save the Children, organizations that really are
on the ground. They get both funding from international organizations
(07:58):
and governments, and they also work with the others, but
they're actually delivering programs on the ground. And so I said,
and then the last one is what I call let's see,
I went through funders. Oh, of course, a private philanthropy.
So I distinguished them from the funders because they are
usually a private, very wealthy family that has decided to
(08:22):
devote much of their wealth to help again alleviate poverty
in the world. And so there's a big tradition of
them providing grants but also you know, really supporting leveraging
their you know, in terms of compared to the international
organization's more limited funding, even though it's very generous to
(08:45):
set agendas and to push certain things, for example, improvements
and education in a particular region or a particular sector.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well that's helpful because I think people, you know, they
want to get involved, like this sounds great, but you
need to know the lay of the land. And I
think the more specificity you have, the more you can
you know, channel your energy and navigate the system better.
So it seems like but you're already you picked. I
think that's certainly all of them are important. But I
think certainly where does the money come from? How do
(09:17):
people get the money? That's the big challenge these days,
and I think it's going to be an you know,
increasing challenge. I mean, you know, we're obviously in an
interesting time, you know, of I'm not sure it's the
right direction in terms of you know, I think we're
becoming more isolated. I think that that's, you know, that's problematic.
I think we're we're you know, we are a global world,
(09:40):
global economy and global culture, and you know, I think
that we need to basically recognize that and that we're
we're tied together, you know, and the fates of different countries.
We may not see them immediate impact, but I think
they're really critical to our own development.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly in that camp, having worked
all my life really in and having been sort of
you know, I tease with my friends that in the US,
I am, you know, this Italian South America and Venezuela,
and in Venezuela, I'm this American because I've spent so
much of my life in the US, and that some
(10:22):
of the cultural aspects of the way the US works.
You know, I've never really had a job in Latin America,
so my work culture is very much what it's more
prevalent and more common in the US. And I realized
that when I went to work for the Regional Development
Bank for Latin American, the Caribbean, the inter American Development Bank,
(10:43):
that because the majority of the people working there are
from Latin America or have been students of Latin America.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Because they're from another country, the culture is quite different.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So it's as close as I got to returning to
my own home country.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I would say, Well, were some of the sailing points
of differences in culture between the.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
World Bank and the IDVA. I think there are I
think several. The World Bank is a place that is
so multicultural that there are certain norms that you have
to maintain in order to make sure you don't offend anyone, right,
so the humor what might be funny in one culture
will not be in another, et cetera. And I think
(11:27):
at the once I arrived in the Latin America and
Inter American Development Bank, I was experiencing some jokes that
I knew at the World Bank would have seen quite
inappropriate or sexist, for example, because the culture allows for
that and it's accepted. And if I had received the
same type of jokes in the World Bank, I might
(11:48):
get offended and find it like inappropriate. But at the IDBA,
I would have had to be offended, you know, all
the time.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
So I decided, well, you know, it's cultural differences.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And I understood it fortunately, even though you know, I
must confess I don't always love that part of my
own culture. But it's nice to also have, you know,
a sense of humor and be able to use humor
alongside your series professional work.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. Well, I mean it's important to engage in different
you know, and be aware of different cultures. I mean,
I think that it's overall and riching. I think having
to actually interact with people and just spend every day
with them, I think breaks down stereotypes. Even though you
may have disagreements about things, and you get to know them,
you get to work with them, you see them as people.
(12:36):
You know, you're all trying to do things. You know,
so I think you know that aspect of the diversity
I think is important. I think that absolutely, yeah, you know,
it's well, I think you know it's enriching. I mean,
some people might not appreciate it, but I think it
basically gives you a richer view of life. I remember
(12:57):
when I first went to college, you know, my freshman year.
They asked me, and I came from New York, and
I knew that a lot of I was a freshman
at Yale, and I knew there were a lot of
people from my area, Long Island who were there. And
they said, do you have any preferences in roommates? And
(13:18):
I said, yes, not from Long Island.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That was good, good, good.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I want to meet people from around geographically diverse, you know,
you know, ethnically, racially, geographically diverse, different perspectives that I
can learn from.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I mean, one of the things that I found most
gratifying about working at a place like the World Bank
is that the job and the work, whether you're directly
working with countries in Africa or in the Middle East
or in Latin America, you're exposed to people from all
these countries and often you have you know, exchanges, so
(13:58):
you might bring people from the country that you are
advising to learn from another country, and the Bank facilitates
a lot of that. So it got me, as a
fairly young woman, the opportunity to go to Africa, to
the Middle East, to East Asia, to South Asia, and
you know, it just I think one of the things
that I learned early on, very early on in my
(14:21):
career is that no matter how different we look as
individuals or skin color, the religious preferences, even how we
dress and how we celebrate different events, ultimately, deep down
were all the same. We all want the same things.
We want, you know, peace, We want to have better
opportunities for children than we ourselves do. And so you
(14:43):
see that, particularly when you're working in the education sector,
you're interacting with children and their families and the decision
makers and you realize everybody and ultimately deep down wants
the same things. It's just how we're born in different settings.
But how do we communicate or since here we are
more similar than different?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Right? Yes, I just was on another podcast with a
woman who wrote a book called Our Our Common Ground.
So you know, one of the premises that there is
there is more, there is more that we share than
we realized. And uh so, so I think this is great.
(15:24):
I'm gonna, you know, just we're going to take a
quick break me nanna. But when we come back, I
want to talk more about the book itself and what's
in the book and how you organize it and what
what's goals were in writing the book. So, folks, when
we come back, there will be much more. We'll be
talking with with Emilyana Vegas, who is the author of
(15:46):
Let's Change the World, So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
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(16:11):
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Speaker 2 (18:07):
Welcome back, folks. We're talking today with Emily and Vegas,
the author of the recent new book Let's Change the World,
and we're going to talk about the book more and
about what's in the book, how it's organized, what point
she wants to get across. So give us some of
the high points of the book. First of all, I
think you organized into three basic sections, right.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yes, So the book has three basic sections. The first
one is how you get in. So once you understand
the field and that you're interested in changing the world
and working in international development and making the world a
better place for all, then you know the next questions
is how do I do this? And so I talk
a lot about the skills you need. You know, what
(18:50):
are the job opportunities, how do you access them, et cetera.
The second part is how you thrive. So, you know,
I was very fortunate to come in a particular path,
but I also saw many other ways of you know,
advancing in their in these institutions, and so I talk
(19:10):
a lot about that. And finally, you know, which is
really the purpose of the book, is how do you
have a real impact and how do you make a
difference within an organization? With the within these organizations which
tend to be you know, diverse, bureacratic in the you know,
global funders case, with a lot of you know, stakeholders
because many of the donor countries are involved in the
(19:33):
governance as well as the recipient member countries. So they
have this angle that makes them complex but also and
not as agile as let's say a startup. But at
the same time, they have a lot of access to
decision makers all over the world, and they have resources,
and so you can use those to those two levers
(19:55):
to really have impact.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I was able to figure that out.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Well. It was there.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, so it's you're a navigator helping people get through
this field. So when when people get involved, are there
do you find that there are skills that they they
need more development, or that they're lacking or.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it depends a lot on the type of organization,
as we were talking earlier, so they're you know, if
you're in an implementing kind of organization, the sort of
project management skills and ability to get things done become
very very important. Although I think those are important for everything,
but particularly important if you're in a convenier organization, sort
(20:41):
of diplomatic skills, language skills, the ability to bring people
who might be of different backgrounds or cultures to come
to agreements, and that become very important. And I would
say the funders, portugals, the global funders, the International Monetary Fund,
the development banks that I worked in the sort of
(21:01):
preponderance of the employees there are economists, so it is
a financial institution. And in that way, so I say,
even though, for example, some of my colleagues in the
education sector were not economists, I'm an economist of education,
trained in a graduate school of education, but with a
lot of economics course. This is under my belt, but
(21:21):
not everybody who studies education policy might have so much
you know, economics, or even if you are like an
expert in teaching and learning, we need you. But it's
helpful if you also can understand how economists talk, at
least what they mean when they're talking about opportunity costs
and costs and benefits and cost effectiveness, because that's kind
(21:43):
of the common language around the halls and in the
meet days, and so I talk about those differences have
become important as you you know, want to get a
job there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, So speaking of cost effectiveness, I think you know,
this is something that you know comes up quite a bit,
like what you know, the cost effectives of this kind
of investment in countries? How do you address these issues
in terms of, you know, explaining, you know, why it's
worth the investment.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So, you know, one of the advantages of being sort
of in the mix between researcher and applied researcher, which
is how I really talk see myself, is that in
education and other factors, we have really advanced a lot
in doing what economy is again refire to economists would
(22:36):
call rigorous research about what works and how. And then
if you combine that with knowing how much it costs.
Then it's that combination that allows you to estimate, you know,
for each dollar that you invest in something, how much
benefits do you get? And so, for example, in education,
it's common to talk about benefits in a reduced way,
(22:59):
I admit it, which is in student learning of particular subjects,
in particular reading and math, because these are considered believe
the foundational skills to then continue learning. And these are
also the two subjects that are commonly assessed by national
education systems, et cetera. And so a lot of what
we do is try to see, you know, how do
(23:22):
you move the needle, let's say, on how many students
are learning these basic reading and math skills and with
what interventions. And we have a growing body of evidence
of things that work, at least in small, pilot, rigorous
evaluation environments. And where we're challenged in our field right
now is how do we bring that evidence of what
(23:44):
we know works in let's say a very excellent random
mice controlled experiment with a very controlled environment where you know,
the intervention was implemented by a team that was very
well trying and not necessarily by the large government bureaucracy.
When you want to extend that to all schools, all
(24:07):
public schools, with.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
The teachers that they have and not the ones that
you train, how would that work?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And often we find that it doesn't work in the
same way, and that so we're trying to move the
field to think less about let's do pilots in very
controlled settings, but really let's pilot things in the real
world with government partners. And what's exciting is that many
of the partners in the countries that we're working with
are open to that and are open to recognizing that
(24:35):
it's important to us you innovate and introduce new interventions,
you also need to build the capacity to learn whether
they're working. I wish it was even more so. I
still find in my conversations with decision makers too often
that they really have firm convictions that something will work,
(24:55):
but they don't really have solid evidence that it is
working or that, and then they continue down a path
for a long time with a lot of investment, and
they don't see results, and you wonder why, and they
don't have good answer. They just are frustrated. And so
that's that's a role that I think researchers can play
(25:16):
to help initiatives that are funded by both international development
organizations as well as the governments ofselves be more constantly.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah. Yeah, evidence based, you know, action is I think
what's needed today. I mean I think that certainly it's
you know, you need to make some calculated risks, but
then you need to figure out what is the evidence.
So are most of your partners Are they a combination
of government agencies and other nonprofits or.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So. Now that I'm at Harvard at the grad School
of Education, I a partner. I just started a lab
that we called ELA so Education Lab for Latin America.
That's my region of focus. And what we do is
we're basically partnering with education systems for governments but also
with NGOs to try and help them build that evidence,
(26:05):
but really to solve the problems that they have. So
we don't come with an agenda that what we can
bring to the table really is really talented students and
other faculty members who you know, have research abilities but
also have a very deep understanding of what works and
have some of our faculty have generated some of the
(26:27):
best evidence, for example, of what works to promote reading
in early grades and so taking some of the lessons,
trying and adapting them to the right context and then
seeing if that works and how that works. And you know,
I always say to our partners and it's not just
whether it works or not, but it's for whom and when,
(26:47):
because often it's not a one size.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Fits all, particularly in education.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
So it does, you know, require a level of sophistication
and how you.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Data you generate, but also how you use.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It to make better decisions every day, and not just you,
you know, sitting at the ministry or the Secretary of education,
but really the teacher in the classroom and the school
principle and the kind of the local education edency. And
so it's that that that's kind of where my sweet
spot is is how do I work with all the
relevant partners. So sometimes it's often a combination of funders,
(27:25):
which could be local private philanthropists as well as international organizations,
government partners, and also local researchers who you know are
their usual people the governments go to and how do
we help them do even better generation of evidence that
is used by policymakers.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah. So, but your field basically is in the education component,
not in like building projects or you.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Know, or international development has everything, including structure. So for example,
when I was head of the Education division at the
Inter American Development Bank, we had a portfolio of projects,
and depending on the country's needs and also what the
government asked for of the bank, we might have projects
that are primarily about building schools in rural areas because
(28:17):
they had a shortage of resources to provide you know,
adequate learning spaces. We had projects that were on the
other extreme, helping them you know, build better data systems
to have better information to make decisions, so very you
would say, not infrastructure, but really more technical capacity, and
(28:38):
they also needed training for that, and it's costly to
do more than the actual infrastructure. So we have a
whole range. Now that I'm in academia, it's obviously very different.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So let's let's talk about that now. So you made
a transition academium. I imagine part of it was, you know,
more flexibility to to work on different things. You know,
it's also you fresh faces to work with and learn
from and they can learn from you. So talk about
that transition. What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Well, actually, one of the best spaces to talk about
it because of your audience of forty five forward. I
think I'm also in that group. And you know, I
would say, you know, I started working in the space,
and I did the majority of my career as well
as raising two kids, in jobs that required me to
be you know, in the office for at least eight
(29:32):
hours a day, often more, but also a lot of
time traveling, because you know, if you want to really
have strong relationships with your counterparts, meaning the governments that
you work with, you have meetings, you have you know,
and at the time most of my career, you know,
there wasn't kind of zoom and et cetera. But still,
(29:53):
you know, we even have I think, you know, so anyway,
I will date myself too much although all time life
but your audience and you will know that you know
the in person and so you know, I was often
enough playing in a day's notice. And as you get older,
(30:14):
you sort of you know, your body changes and you
but often you have you think about priorities. You know,
I want to spend you know, now that my kids
are doing well and out of college, more time with
my husband who's recently retired, and the jobs that I
had were not allowing for us to even plan like
a we can get away reliably, and so that was
(30:36):
part of the motivation. I think, like you said, there's
nothing like being surrounded by really smart, passionate people about
what they do, and great universities allow you to do that.
So I'm surrounded by some of the top people in
my field. And actually, one of the exciting things about
(30:58):
you know, professional schools, like at the School of Education,
is that we have you know, researchers who are at
the core producing, let's say, pushing the boundaries of what
we know. But we also have those same researchers working
in partnership to both conduct their researcher but really to
have impact on the ground. So our students are coming
(31:20):
to really not just be pure researchers, but really push,
you know, change. Our model as a school is learned
to change the world, and so it is a process
of not just learning for learning sake, which some people are.
You know, if you're in a traditional academic department, that's
very valued and that's also I think very important because
(31:42):
that's how we advance in our knowledge and our basic sciences.
But it's also trying to be for people like me
to be pushing the frontier of house.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
What we know from the basic science research.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Is being applied in the real world to solve real
world problems.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, well, I think that is important, you know. I
think that that's you know, one of the things that
is you know, part of the criticism today. And I think,
you know, having had a liberal arts education myself, I
can talk a little bit more about that on the
other side of the break in terms of the value
of that. But this is a combination of knowledge and
(32:17):
exploration and utility. So we're going to take another quick
break in Minyanna, but we've got a lot more to
talk about in our last segment, So folks, we are
going to take a short break, but when we come back,
we're talking much more with Emily and a Vegas, the
author of the book Let's Change the World. So don't
go anywhere, We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
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about our youth and how being employed the uniquely skilled
(33:01):
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(33:23):
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also visit her at soarwith Katie dot Com. Author, radio
(33:43):
show host and coach John M. Hawkins reveals strategies to
help gain perspective, build confidence, find clarity, achieve goals. John M.
Hawkins' new book Coached to Greatness Unlock Your Full Potential
with Limitless Growth, published by I Universe, Hawkins reveals strategies
(34:03):
to help readers accomplish more. He believes the book can
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(34:26):
them to be the most productive, and track their progress
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in radio.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Welcome back, folks. Once again, we're talking today with Emilyana Vegas,
the author of Let's Change the World, about how she's
been working to do that. And but before we continue,
I just want to let you know, tell your friends
and colleagues if they missed this live show with them Inhana,
don't worry. You can find our replays of our conversation
on Bold Brave TV, the YouTube channel just click on
(35:20):
my forty five forward playlist, and you could also find
audio replays on many major streaming platforms Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
iHeartRadio and so forth wherever you listen to podcasts. So
before the break, we were talking about a number of things,
and I wanted to just perhaps the highlight a couple
(35:41):
of you know, projects that you found particularly interesting in
the course of your work. I know you worked on
the Chilean educational system. There was a project in Amazonas, Brazil.
So perhaps just high on a couple of things that
you found and give a sense of really in some
of the detail of your work.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
So I'll start with the Amazonas because I think it's
more concrete. So the Amazonas State of Brazil is where
the rainforest, of course is, and because of protecting the
rainforests to give us all in the earth better air quality,
they haven't. They have a lot of limitations on how
(36:23):
much can be built. And so there are still a
lot of populations who live in very isolated areas, populations
of let's say a thousand people inhabitants living in a
small village that is connected to other villages of similar
size only by rivers. So the challenge is that the
(36:44):
Brazilian government in the early two thousands or mid two
thousands pastor law that makes secondary education mandatory as well
as free, and requires the government to offer quality high school.
So let's say to all these citizens, and so how
do you deliver let's say, a good science education and
(37:08):
history and math and in very religious where if you're lucky,
you might have one or two trained teachers. And so
the then minister and government came up with this idea
of really recruiting the best teachers they had in their
capital city and having them provide live via satellite lessons.
(37:32):
This is way before we usume regularly, so this is
with Skype if you remember cameras and all that. But
so they asked the IDB, the Inter American Development Bank,
if we could fund the expansion of this because they
had built one, they have tested the model with like
a TV like studio, they had trained the teachers and
(37:53):
then they took us to observe how that was working,
and it was really impressive. All the highlight for me
was that we had to go by hydroplane, so that
was my first and an only time I've been on
one and landed in the river and then went to
the small village and saw the school facility as well.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Was very impressive. And the way they got.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Enough students to attend was these students would travel three
and four hours by both to go to school. So
they were very committed and they needed funding. So that
was one project that is very exciting because you could
really feel the opportunities that you were creating by expanding
this and in Brazil as in the US education is
(38:40):
run by states and not the federal system, and so
the neighboring state of Padau also which has similar rural villages,
you know, it's also part of the Amazonia Rainforest, ended
up adopting and replicating the same reform. The other one
that I particularly proud of, only because it was something
(39:01):
that I really hadn't been trained for, but I knew
it was a very important reform, and it was in Chile.
Former President Michelle Bachellet. She was based with a lot
of protests by students in the streets demanding improvements and
the quality of schools, particularly of public schools, because at
(39:25):
the time, in order to get into universities and still today,
you have to pass a very high stakes university entrance examinations.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
It's like the SAT, but not the same because the SAT.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know, universities look at different variables to admit. SAT
is one of them, but in this context it's the
one variable. So if you don't meet a certain score,
you won't get in no matter what else you do.
And research and evidence was showing that students who were
attending public schools, even though they have a voucher system
(39:59):
in Chile, so that the government provides the same funding
pur student and families choose whether to attend the public
or private school. And for many reasons, the students who
were coming from these public schools that had been promised,
you know, essentially the same resources, the same opportunities, we're
finding themselves not able to get into the top universities.
(40:20):
And so they led these protests and one day the
president says, I'm going to create a Superintendency of education.
And Chile has a superintendency of banks, and it's essentially
like the bank regulator to make sure that banks actually
have the capital they need to ensure the loans, etc. Well,
(40:42):
similarly that pub private and public schools that are receiving
public funds are delivering on those funds, and that the
government is ensuring that all the resources are going.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Actually to the educational process.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
But nobody knew what that meant and what would this
institution do, and what would the Ministry of Education do,
and what with the municipal governments or districts that were
running schools do, and how would that all relate. So
they asked the World Bank to do some research essentially
of what countries with similar systems, you know, school choice
(41:18):
based systems and funding models similar to those of Chile.
How did they regulate sort of the financial aspect of
education and how did they ensure quality? And so this
ended up being a large project that I led at
you know, fairly early stage in my career that taught
me a lot of lessons because this was not one
(41:39):
example where you have a controlled experiment or rigorous evaluation
that you could refer to, because these large scale reforms
seldom can be done in a controlled experiment way or
you have, but you did have a number of countries
that could be used as exemplars, let's say that had
very good and learning outcomes and in equality and have
(42:04):
different ways of managing their quality assurance from the government side.
And so that was something that I really ended up
learning a lot from them. How do you do this
kind of research as different in nature, more comparative education
research if you wish, And then how do you engage with.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Different stakeholders in the country to understand what are their
worries and their concerns and also bring that back to
the decision makers. So, in a sense, we spent a
lot of time studying these system but really drawing lessons
and then consulting locally to see how does that sound
to you, Does what we interpret your doing and what
(42:43):
we think might work sound right to you or completely off,
and then perfect the research in that way.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
And that ended up.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Being part a very important part of a.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Reform that took place in the two thousands and the
Belief two thousand and ten, and it was approved by Congress.
And Chile an major reform has to go through their Congress,
and it's not a simple majority, so it requires a
lot of consensus building between different parties left and right
and center, left and center, right, et cetera. And you know,
(43:16):
it's been now gradually implemented. And I'm you know, I
won't say that we solved all the problems in Chile,
and for sure there are many, but one of the
things that it has done is made a lot more
A lot has made schools both be more accountable for
student learning and not just for enrolling and retaining kids,
but also make the government more evidence space in the
(43:39):
sense that they now have better information about how public
resources are being used. They can support schools that are
performing at different levels differently, and they have a whole
institutional setup to do that better than they did before
that before.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, yeah, you know, as you talk about this, you know,
what occurs to me is that you know, the old
notion educational, you know, compare and contrast right when you
write papers, and I think that, you know, I'm sure
that there are lessons you learned, you know, from abroad
that you can take back to the US and perhaps
you know, in form art or educational system and anything
(44:15):
come to mind in terms of you know, applicability of
how we might you know, you know, implement some of
these things that you learned abroad here.
Speaker 7 (44:23):
Yeah, I think you know, a lot of the interesting
let's say, high performing systems that we looked at have
a high value and really prioritize the quality of the
teaching profession and make it very attractive for high talented
(44:45):
people to become teachers.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
And I think that's something that has been lost in
much of the America, is including in the United States,
where teaching is still a profession that you know, is
very challenging. Anybody who has been a teach sure knows
how difficult it is. It's particularly difficult when you get
an increasingly you know, diverse set of students, some of
(45:08):
whom have learning differences some of whom have supports at
home that are that are different. And you know, a
single teacher has to be extremely skilled and and and
really good at what she does to get all these
students to learn. And I think the high performing countries
that that recognized this have placed a real value on
(45:34):
you know, who can be a teacher. And in order
to have enough teachers, they have to pay them well,
they have to support them well, they have to create
the conditions that the profession itself is is attractive and
respected economically and socially. And I think that is an
important lesson. I think particularly we saw during the pandemic,
(45:56):
you know, a lot of teacher burnout, and we've seen
a lot of former teachers choosing to take other paths
for their own mental health, I think, and well being,
which is totally legitimate, but it actually is not in
the best interest of our countries to have you know,
(46:17):
not the most and best people doing one of the
hardest stuff, which is training our future generations.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Right yeah, Okay, Well, I want to pick up that
when we come back from our final break. We love
a few minutes at the end to wrap things up
so folks don't go away. We have a lot more
in this pack, in this last segment within Leanna Vegas,
but I need to sneak in one more short break
(46:44):
and we'll be back with the Leanna Vegas, the author
of Let's Change the World, So Don't Go Anywhere.
Speaker 5 (46:51):
Mike Zorich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen thouns. Mike b
Line six birth was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was
a six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds,
and two fourths. He also won the Veteran's Folk Style
Wrestling twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In
(47:15):
all these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy
Zorich a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to
the stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states.
Her father, a commercial artist, who shared his instruments with
his daughter and helped her fine tune her natural abilities,
influenced her decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich
(47:38):
has enjoyed a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen
Saturday mornings at twelve Eastern with a Nancy and Mike show.
For heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
Are you struggling to care for elderly parents or a spouse?
Do you wonder if being a care giver is making
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Has caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining? Are you an
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(48:17):
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I answer these questions and share tips for managing stress,
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(48:38):
plus my Caregiving library. Online caregiver support programs and programs
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Speaker 2 (49:34):
Welcome back Focus. Once again, we are talking with Emi
Leana Vegas, the author of Let's Change the World. So
in our last few minutes, I wanted to wrap up
some things by just asking and Leana if there any
sort of surprises in her career, and during the break
she mentioned me that she started out like me as
a journalist and aspirations and shifted by and that's often
(49:55):
how it happens. You just it leads. One thing leads
to another, you know, if you plan and don't but
then you see where it go. So any thoughts on
your own personal growth and things that you surprises that
you encountered, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Mean so many. I would say that what you just
underdo it too, I think is the biggest one that
you know, I always had a plan, but my friend
never materialized. And I tell my students today and people
who are looking for career guidance that it's really important
to have a plan because otherwise what are you, you know,
(50:30):
training for or working for. But also be very open
to changing plans when other opportunities arise. And so for me,
you know, I went to Harvard where I now teach,
to get a doctorate with the idea of becoming a
professor a tenure track in a university, and I had
(50:52):
this whole romantic idea of, you know, for someone like me,
raised in a very traditional household and wanting to be,
you know, a wife and a mother that I was.
I didn't see how that would work because I hadn't
seen other women who were parents also in the workforce,
and so academia seemed like the best way to combine
(51:13):
my interest in working for education policy, doing research but
also having some flexibility. And then soon after I graduated
and got my job offers the best and most attractive,
for multiple reasons was the World Bank, and I knew
I would started the research to pardon and I thought
to myself, well, just to research, publish, and then moved
(51:36):
to a university, and it turns out that I didn't
love the daily life, the day to day life of
just doing research. I feel like when I did it
as a doctoral student getting my dissertation, it had an
end date, right, and I was working toward finishing a
product and then moving on. But when you're always doing research,
you don't really have deadlines that are really important or
(51:59):
fix do. You have some deadlines, but they're always movable.
You can if you're a pure researcher you have to
take the time to do it well, and you don't
control all the variables. And so for me, I realized
when I moved, you know, as part of the Young
Professionals program, I had to do a rotation and I
moved to the Middle East and North Africa Education team,
(52:21):
where I first started doing research that actually was being
used by a government right away in Tunisia and Morocco.
And that was like where I found my groove. And
so I've scrapped the idea of going to you know,
try and get tenure in the traditional let's say academic
academic path and and it's funny to me that and.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
It is surprising that I'm backed in academia.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
But now, you know, as I mentioned, it's a professional
school and they recruit professors at both you know, professors
who are you know, in that they call it ladder,
so they're they're tenured and have your track, and also
professors for what they call the practice track. So I'm
in that track, which is what I bring to the
school into the students, is my experience working in the
(53:11):
real world and outside of academia.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, right, well, fortunately you've come close to the end
of the show. I just want to thank you for
a terrific conversation. I think it's always terrifically. I know
that Harvard's been in the news for other reasons these days,
so it's good to have someone who's on the ground
there can give us people a sense of what you
do there and how you contribute to your students. So
(53:35):
thank you for a terrific conversation. How can people how
can people reach you? They need to want to get
in touch with you.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Sure, I have a website, my personal website, which is
my first name and last name, so Emi Leona Vegas dot.
Speaker 8 (53:49):
Com, and that has all my details including where you
can get the book if you're interested in you know, events,
and I will also put the link to the recording
of the show there.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Very terrific. Okay, so folks, once again, this has been
forty five forward and Bowl Brave TV. I thank you
for spending this hour with me and helping me learn
and hope you've learned something from a Migniana. I want
to thank also my engineer Alex, part of a terrific
team at Bowl Brave TV who helps you through every show.
(54:24):
Be sure to join me next Wednesday is seven pm
Eastern time during the beginning of Alzheimer's Brain and Awareness Month,
when I'll be talking to Jim Taylor, the CEO of
Voices of Alzheimer's, and Carol Steinberg, a writer and former
executive and several Alzheimer's organizations, and the author of a
wonderful cross generational children's book for families with people living
(54:45):
with Alzheimer's. So, folks, until next week, keep moving forward,
forty five forward.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
This has been forty five forward with host Rowell. Tune
in each week as Ron tackles the many aspects of health, finance,
family and friends, housing, work, and personal pursuits, all as
part of an integrated plan and to take charge of
your unretiring life during these uncertain times. Wednesdays, seven pm
(55:20):
Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network, powered by B
two Studios
Welcome to forty five Forward with host, journalist and speaker
Ron row Out. Ron's mission is to make your second
half of life even better than your first. Most of
us are just approaching our half life when we reach
the mid forties, with many productive years ahead. Ron is
here to help prepare us for this kind of longevity
(00:29):
by providing vital strategies to shift the traditional waiting for
retirement model to a continuous, evolving journey of compelling life chapters.
So now please welcome the host of forty five Forward,
Ron row Out.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hello, everyone, Welcome to forty five Forward. I'm your host
on Ron Rowell. As we move forward in our careers,
I'm sure many of you, like me, start thinking about
bigger aspirations than just career advancement. What's going to be
our contribution to the world. What's our legacy? On today's show,
we talk exactly about that. I'll be talking with the
(01:25):
Emiliana Vegas, who's a professor at the Harvard Graduate School
of Education and author of the recent book Let's Change
the World. She's spent her career focusing on issues to
improve the educational opportunities of what's known as the global South.
Latin America, the Caribbean and other development countries. Doctor Vegas
will offer a practical and encouraging guide for everyone, no
(01:47):
matter what their age, who wants to make a positive
change through their professional life. So now let's meet our guest,
am In Lyana Vegas. Ameniana, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thank you, Ron, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it's a real pleasure. So there's a lot to
talk about in the book, But first, I am always
interested in the lives of my guests as well, and
you can find out if you had a forty five
forward actually on my website ROL Resources dot com and
tap on the forty five forward tad. There's a brief buyo.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
That.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But I just wanted to hear a little bit because
I find my guests have fascinating lives. Talk a little
about how you got into this field.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, I was very fortunate in many ways. One of
the more important ways in which I was fortunate is
my parents were big believers in the power of education,
and while they had not themselves been highly educated, my
father dropped out of college to come work for the
family business in Venezuela, where I'm originally from South America.
(02:53):
My mother had just finished high school. When she married
my father and they had us very young. They had
a cparently, according to them, made a pact even when
they were dating, that all their children would have, you know,
better educational opportunities than they had, and in particular that
we would attend boarding schools in the US for our
(03:14):
high school education. And that was really transformative to me.
After you know, attending a four year boarding school in Connecticut,
which was academically challenging and also very enriching in many
extracurricular opportunities, I returned to Venezuela for college, and I
(03:35):
realized quickly that I was in one of the best
programs in one of the top universities, surrounded by some
of the best students, and that my training, my you know,
the skills I had learned at eth A Walker School
in Connecticut had really given me an edge, a huge
advantage in terms of how I knew how to learn
(03:57):
how to organize my time so that I was more productive,
and I ended up getting really you know, high grades
without necessarily working as hard as I had before. And
I concluded, you know, and I probably wouldn't have said
it in so many words, but that probably Venezuela was
not the sort of growing economy and thriving country that
(04:18):
it could be because of a failing education system. And
that's how I decided to you know, really develop my
studies and yeah, at that point, to learn more about
how to improve education and later to actually work in
the field.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. Yeah, So for those who don't know, talk a
little bit about international development, what's the feel entail.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The field is, and it involves really helping low income
countries and middle income countries get to to get to
levels of that are more common in high income countries
like the US, where even though there are still challenges
and there are pockets of poverty, overall average incomes are
(05:01):
high with respect to the rest of the world. You
have good, adequate infrastructure in most of the country, you
have good services water, health, sanitation, education, of course, and
so it's really it's a it's a group of organizations
that were primarily started after World War two to transfers
(05:25):
not just funding but also technical capacity to help. Initially
it was really rebuilding Europe, and later it became well,
let's help other countries that are in similar situations improve
and so that's what the field is about.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And the field has broken down into different kinds of
organizations and then and you've described them that I guess
there are like five different areas that you can go
into and you went into Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So I you know, divided them and sort of easy
to understand way. And I did it by the primary
function of each of these types of institutions. But many
of them do more than just that one function. So
one of the groups I call them the global funders,
and these are organizations like the World Bank, the International
(06:18):
Monetary Fund, the Inter American Development Bank.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I've worked in many of these institutions.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Where at least in two of them, not many, and
also many bilateral funders like the Canadian International Development Agency,
the UK International Foreign Commonwealth, etc. Formerly USAID here in
the United States. And these are organizations that they're primarily
mended is to really provide loans and grants to law
(06:46):
and middle inco countries. But in doing so, they also
provide a lot of capacity strengthening let's call it technical assistance.
They conduct research. That's where people like me come in.
The second type of organist, say, is what I call conveners.
So the best known would be the United Nations. Their
organizations whose primary mandate again is to convene the key stakeholders,
(07:10):
either precedents or ministers or a sector, to share experiences
and set common goals for and set common agendas. The
third type is what I call advisors, So there are
for profit and nonprofit organizations who you know, work as
advisors consultants to both governments around the world, but also
(07:34):
these international organizations. And the fourth type is what I
call implementers. So these are organizations that actually have boots
on the ground, be it the World Food Program, the
World Health organizations, Save the Children, organizations that really are
on the ground. They get both funding from international organizations
(07:58):
and governments, and they also work with the others, but
they're actually delivering programs on the ground. And so I said,
and then the last one is what I call let's see,
I went through funders. Oh, of course, a private philanthropy.
So I distinguished them from the funders because they are
usually a private, very wealthy family that has decided to
(08:22):
devote much of their wealth to help again alleviate poverty
in the world. And so there's a big tradition of
them providing grants but also you know, really supporting leveraging
their you know, in terms of compared to the international
organization's more limited funding, even though it's very generous to
(08:45):
set agendas and to push certain things, for example, improvements
and education in a particular region or a particular sector.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well that's helpful because I think people, you know, they
want to get involved, like this sounds great, but you
need to know the lay of the land. And I
think the more specificity you have, the more you can
you know, channel your energy and navigate the system better.
So it seems like but you're already you picked. I
think that's certainly all of them are important. But I
think certainly where does the money come from? How do
(09:17):
people get the money? That's the big challenge these days,
and I think it's going to be an you know,
increasing challenge. I mean, you know, we're obviously in an
interesting time, you know, of I'm not sure it's the
right direction in terms of you know, I think we're
becoming more isolated. I think that that's, you know, that's problematic.
I think we're we're you know, we are a global world,
(09:40):
global economy and global culture, and you know, I think
that we need to basically recognize that and that we're
we're tied together, you know, and the fates of different countries.
We may not see them immediate impact, but I think
they're really critical to our own development.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly in that camp, having worked
all my life really in and having been sort of
you know, I tease with my friends that in the US,
I am, you know, this Italian South America and Venezuela,
and in Venezuela, I'm this American because I've spent so
much of my life in the US, and that some
(10:22):
of the cultural aspects of the way the US works.
You know, I've never really had a job in Latin America,
so my work culture is very much what it's more
prevalent and more common in the US. And I realized
that when I went to work for the Regional Development
Bank for Latin American, the Caribbean, the inter American Development Bank,
(10:43):
that because the majority of the people working there are
from Latin America or have been students of Latin America.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Because they're from another country, the culture is quite different.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So it's as close as I got to returning to
my own home country.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I would say, Well, were some of the sailing points
of differences in culture between the.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
World Bank and the IDVA. I think there are I
think several. The World Bank is a place that is
so multicultural that there are certain norms that you have
to maintain in order to make sure you don't offend anyone, right,
so the humor what might be funny in one culture
will not be in another, et cetera. And I think
(11:27):
at the once I arrived in the Latin America and
Inter American Development Bank, I was experiencing some jokes that
I knew at the World Bank would have seen quite
inappropriate or sexist, for example, because the culture allows for
that and it's accepted. And if I had received the
same type of jokes in the World Bank, I might
(11:48):
get offended and find it like inappropriate. But at the IDBA,
I would have had to be offended, you know, all
the time.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
So I decided, well, you know, it's cultural differences.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And I understood it fortunately, even though you know, I
must confess I don't always love that part of my
own culture. But it's nice to also have, you know,
a sense of humor and be able to use humor
alongside your series professional work.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. Well, I mean it's important to engage in different
you know, and be aware of different cultures. I mean,
I think that it's overall and riching. I think having
to actually interact with people and just spend every day
with them, I think breaks down stereotypes. Even though you
may have disagreements about things, and you get to know them,
you get to work with them, you see them as people.
(12:36):
You know, you're all trying to do things. You know,
so I think you know that aspect of the diversity
I think is important. I think that absolutely, yeah, you know,
it's well, I think you know it's enriching. I mean,
some people might not appreciate it, but I think it
basically gives you a richer view of life. I remember
(12:57):
when I first went to college, you know, my freshman year.
They asked me, and I came from New York, and
I knew that a lot of I was a freshman
at Yale, and I knew there were a lot of
people from my area, Long Island who were there. And
they said, do you have any preferences in roommates? And
(13:18):
I said, yes, not from Long Island.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That was good, good, good.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I want to meet people from around geographically diverse, you know,
you know, ethnically, racially, geographically diverse, different perspectives that I
can learn from.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I mean, one of the things that I found most
gratifying about working at a place like the World Bank
is that the job and the work, whether you're directly
working with countries in Africa or in the Middle East
or in Latin America, you're exposed to people from all
these countries and often you have you know, exchanges, so
(13:58):
you might bring people from the country that you are
advising to learn from another country, and the Bank facilitates
a lot of that. So it got me, as a
fairly young woman, the opportunity to go to Africa, to
the Middle East, to East Asia, to South Asia, and
you know, it just I think one of the things
that I learned early on, very early on in my
(14:21):
career is that no matter how different we look as
individuals or skin color, the religious preferences, even how we
dress and how we celebrate different events, ultimately, deep down
were all the same. We all want the same things.
We want, you know, peace, We want to have better
opportunities for children than we ourselves do. And so you
(14:43):
see that, particularly when you're working in the education sector,
you're interacting with children and their families and the decision
makers and you realize everybody and ultimately deep down wants
the same things. It's just how we're born in different settings.
But how do we communicate or since here we are
more similar than different?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Right? Yes, I just was on another podcast with a
woman who wrote a book called Our Our Common Ground.
So you know, one of the premises that there is
there is more, there is more that we share than
we realized. And uh so, so I think this is great.
(15:24):
I'm gonna, you know, just we're going to take a
quick break me nanna. But when we come back, I
want to talk more about the book itself and what's
in the book and how you organize it and what
what's goals were in writing the book. So, folks, when
we come back, there will be much more. We'll be
talking with with Emilyana Vegas, who is the author of
(15:46):
Let's Change the World, So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
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Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen pounds. Mike blind
sitz Birth was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds, and
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(16:11):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
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a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities influence her
(16:34):
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a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 6 (16:51):
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(17:11):
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(17:35):
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Speaker 2 (18:07):
Welcome back, folks. We're talking today with Emily and Vegas,
the author of the recent new book Let's Change the World,
and we're going to talk about the book more and
about what's in the book, how it's organized, what point
she wants to get across. So give us some of
the high points of the book. First of all, I
think you organized into three basic sections, right.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yes, So the book has three basic sections. The first
one is how you get in. So once you understand
the field and that you're interested in changing the world
and working in international development and making the world a
better place for all, then you know the next questions
is how do I do this? And so I talk
a lot about the skills you need. You know, what
(18:50):
are the job opportunities, how do you access them, et cetera.
The second part is how you thrive. So, you know,
I was very fortunate to come in a particular path,
but I also saw many other ways of you know,
advancing in their in these institutions, and so I talk
(19:10):
a lot about that. And finally, you know, which is
really the purpose of the book, is how do you
have a real impact and how do you make a
difference within an organization? With the within these organizations which
tend to be you know, diverse, bureacratic in the you know,
global funders case, with a lot of you know, stakeholders
because many of the donor countries are involved in the
(19:33):
governance as well as the recipient member countries. So they
have this angle that makes them complex but also and
not as agile as let's say a startup. But at
the same time, they have a lot of access to
decision makers all over the world, and they have resources,
and so you can use those to those two levers
(19:55):
to really have impact.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I was able to figure that out.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Well. It was there.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, so it's you're a navigator helping people get through
this field. So when when people get involved, are there
do you find that there are skills that they they
need more development, or that they're lacking or.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it depends a lot on the type of organization,
as we were talking earlier, so they're you know, if
you're in an implementing kind of organization, the sort of
project management skills and ability to get things done become
very very important. Although I think those are important for everything,
but particularly important if you're in a convenier organization, sort
(20:41):
of diplomatic skills, language skills, the ability to bring people
who might be of different backgrounds or cultures to come
to agreements, and that become very important. And I would
say the funders, portugals, the global funders, the International Monetary Fund,
the development banks that I worked in the sort of
(21:01):
preponderance of the employees there are economists, so it is
a financial institution. And in that way, so I say,
even though, for example, some of my colleagues in the
education sector were not economists, I'm an economist of education,
trained in a graduate school of education, but with a
lot of economics course. This is under my belt, but
(21:21):
not everybody who studies education policy might have so much
you know, economics, or even if you are like an
expert in teaching and learning, we need you. But it's
helpful if you also can understand how economists talk, at
least what they mean when they're talking about opportunity costs
and costs and benefits and cost effectiveness, because that's kind
(21:43):
of the common language around the halls and in the
meet days, and so I talk about those differences have
become important as you you know, want to get a
job there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, So speaking of cost effectiveness, I think you know,
this is something that you know comes up quite a bit,
like what you know, the cost effectives of this kind
of investment in countries? How do you address these issues
in terms of, you know, explaining, you know, why it's
worth the investment.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So, you know, one of the advantages of being sort
of in the mix between researcher and applied researcher, which
is how I really talk see myself, is that in
education and other factors, we have really advanced a lot
in doing what economy is again refire to economists would
(22:36):
call rigorous research about what works and how. And then
if you combine that with knowing how much it costs.
Then it's that combination that allows you to estimate, you know,
for each dollar that you invest in something, how much
benefits do you get? And so, for example, in education,
it's common to talk about benefits in a reduced way,
(22:59):
I admit it, which is in student learning of particular subjects,
in particular reading and math, because these are considered believe
the foundational skills to then continue learning. And these are
also the two subjects that are commonly assessed by national
education systems, et cetera. And so a lot of what
we do is try to see, you know, how do
(23:22):
you move the needle, let's say, on how many students
are learning these basic reading and math skills and with
what interventions. And we have a growing body of evidence
of things that work, at least in small, pilot, rigorous
evaluation environments. And where we're challenged in our field right
now is how do we bring that evidence of what
(23:44):
we know works in let's say a very excellent random
mice controlled experiment with a very controlled environment where you know,
the intervention was implemented by a team that was very
well trying and not necessarily by the large government bureaucracy.
When you want to extend that to all schools, all
(24:07):
public schools, with.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
The teachers that they have and not the ones that
you train, how would that work?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And often we find that it doesn't work in the
same way, and that so we're trying to move the
field to think less about let's do pilots in very
controlled settings, but really let's pilot things in the real
world with government partners. And what's exciting is that many
of the partners in the countries that we're working with
are open to that and are open to recognizing that
(24:35):
it's important to us you innovate and introduce new interventions,
you also need to build the capacity to learn whether
they're working. I wish it was even more so. I
still find in my conversations with decision makers too often
that they really have firm convictions that something will work,
(24:55):
but they don't really have solid evidence that it is
working or that, and then they continue down a path
for a long time with a lot of investment, and
they don't see results, and you wonder why, and they
don't have good answer. They just are frustrated. And so
that's that's a role that I think researchers can play
(25:16):
to help initiatives that are funded by both international development
organizations as well as the governments ofselves be more constantly.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah. Yeah, evidence based, you know, action is I think
what's needed today. I mean I think that certainly it's
you know, you need to make some calculated risks, but
then you need to figure out what is the evidence.
So are most of your partners Are they a combination
of government agencies and other nonprofits or.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So. Now that I'm at Harvard at the grad School
of Education, I a partner. I just started a lab
that we called ELA so Education Lab for Latin America.
That's my region of focus. And what we do is
we're basically partnering with education systems for governments but also
with NGOs to try and help them build that evidence,
(26:05):
but really to solve the problems that they have. So
we don't come with an agenda that what we can
bring to the table really is really talented students and
other faculty members who you know, have research abilities but
also have a very deep understanding of what works and
have some of our faculty have generated some of the
(26:27):
best evidence, for example, of what works to promote reading
in early grades and so taking some of the lessons,
trying and adapting them to the right context and then
seeing if that works and how that works. And you know,
I always say to our partners and it's not just
whether it works or not, but it's for whom and when,
(26:47):
because often it's not a one size.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Fits all, particularly in education.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
So it does, you know, require a level of sophistication
and how you.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Data you generate, but also how you use.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It to make better decisions every day, and not just you,
you know, sitting at the ministry or the Secretary of education,
but really the teacher in the classroom and the school
principle and the kind of the local education edency. And
so it's that that that's kind of where my sweet
spot is is how do I work with all the
relevant partners. So sometimes it's often a combination of funders,
(27:25):
which could be local private philanthropists as well as international organizations,
government partners, and also local researchers who you know are
their usual people the governments go to and how do
we help them do even better generation of evidence that
is used by policymakers.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah. So, but your field basically is in the education component,
not in like building projects or you.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Know, or international development has everything, including structure. So for example,
when I was head of the Education division at the
Inter American Development Bank, we had a portfolio of projects,
and depending on the country's needs and also what the
government asked for of the bank, we might have projects
that are primarily about building schools in rural areas because
(28:17):
they had a shortage of resources to provide you know,
adequate learning spaces. We had projects that were on the
other extreme, helping them you know, build better data systems
to have better information to make decisions, so very you
would say, not infrastructure, but really more technical capacity, and
(28:38):
they also needed training for that, and it's costly to
do more than the actual infrastructure. So we have a
whole range. Now that I'm in academia, it's obviously very different.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So let's let's talk about that now. So you made
a transition academium. I imagine part of it was, you know,
more flexibility to to work on different things. You know,
it's also you fresh faces to work with and learn
from and they can learn from you. So talk about
that transition. What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Well, actually, one of the best spaces to talk about
it because of your audience of forty five forward. I
think I'm also in that group. And you know, I
would say, you know, I started working in the space,
and I did the majority of my career as well
as raising two kids, in jobs that required me to
be you know, in the office for at least eight
(29:32):
hours a day, often more, but also a lot of
time traveling, because you know, if you want to really
have strong relationships with your counterparts, meaning the governments that
you work with, you have meetings, you have you know,
and at the time most of my career, you know,
there wasn't kind of zoom and et cetera. But still,
(29:53):
you know, we even have I think, you know, so anyway,
I will date myself too much although all time life
but your audience and you will know that you know
the in person and so you know, I was often
enough playing in a day's notice. And as you get older,
(30:14):
you sort of you know, your body changes and you
but often you have you think about priorities. You know,
I want to spend you know, now that my kids
are doing well and out of college, more time with
my husband who's recently retired, and the jobs that I
had were not allowing for us to even plan like
a we can get away reliably, and so that was
(30:36):
part of the motivation. I think, like you said, there's
nothing like being surrounded by really smart, passionate people about
what they do, and great universities allow you to do that.
So I'm surrounded by some of the top people in
my field. And actually, one of the exciting things about
(30:58):
you know, professional schools, like at the School of Education,
is that we have you know, researchers who are at
the core producing, let's say, pushing the boundaries of what
we know. But we also have those same researchers working
in partnership to both conduct their researcher but really to
have impact on the ground. So our students are coming
(31:20):
to really not just be pure researchers, but really push,
you know, change. Our model as a school is learned
to change the world, and so it is a process
of not just learning for learning sake, which some people are.
You know, if you're in a traditional academic department, that's
very valued and that's also I think very important because
(31:42):
that's how we advance in our knowledge and our basic sciences.
But it's also trying to be for people like me
to be pushing the frontier of house.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
What we know from the basic science research.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Is being applied in the real world to solve real
world problems.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, well, I think that is important, you know. I
think that that's you know, one of the things that
is you know, part of the criticism today. And I think,
you know, having had a liberal arts education myself, I
can talk a little bit more about that on the
other side of the break in terms of the value
of that. But this is a combination of knowledge and
(32:17):
exploration and utility. So we're going to take another quick
break in Minyanna, but we've got a lot more to
talk about in our last segment, So folks, we are
going to take a short break, but when we come back,
we're talking much more with Emily and a Vegas, the
author of the book Let's Change the World. So don't
go anywhere, We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
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(33:01):
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Speaker 2 (34:57):
Welcome back, folks. Once again, we're talking today with Emilyana Vegas,
the author of Let's Change the World, about how she's
been working to do that. And but before we continue,
I just want to let you know, tell your friends
and colleagues if they missed this live show with them Inhana,
don't worry. You can find our replays of our conversation
on Bold Brave TV, the YouTube channel just click on
(35:20):
my forty five forward playlist, and you could also find
audio replays on many major streaming platforms Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
iHeartRadio and so forth wherever you listen to podcasts. So
before the break, we were talking about a number of things,
and I wanted to just perhaps the highlight a couple
(35:41):
of you know, projects that you found particularly interesting in
the course of your work. I know you worked on
the Chilean educational system. There was a project in Amazonas, Brazil.
So perhaps just high on a couple of things that
you found and give a sense of really in some
of the detail of your work.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
So I'll start with the Amazonas because I think it's
more concrete. So the Amazonas State of Brazil is where
the rainforest, of course is, and because of protecting the
rainforests to give us all in the earth better air quality,
they haven't. They have a lot of limitations on how
(36:23):
much can be built. And so there are still a
lot of populations who live in very isolated areas, populations
of let's say a thousand people inhabitants living in a
small village that is connected to other villages of similar
size only by rivers. So the challenge is that the
(36:44):
Brazilian government in the early two thousands or mid two
thousands pastor law that makes secondary education mandatory as well
as free, and requires the government to offer quality high school.
So let's say to all these citizens, and so how
do you deliver let's say, a good science education and
(37:08):
history and math and in very religious where if you're lucky,
you might have one or two trained teachers. And so
the then minister and government came up with this idea
of really recruiting the best teachers they had in their
capital city and having them provide live via satellite lessons.
(37:32):
This is way before we usume regularly, so this is
with Skype if you remember cameras and all that. But
so they asked the IDB, the Inter American Development Bank,
if we could fund the expansion of this because they
had built one, they have tested the model with like
a TV like studio, they had trained the teachers and
(37:53):
then they took us to observe how that was working,
and it was really impressive. All the highlight for me
was that we had to go by hydroplane, so that
was my first and an only time I've been on
one and landed in the river and then went to
the small village and saw the school facility as well.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Was very impressive. And the way they got.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Enough students to attend was these students would travel three
and four hours by both to go to school. So
they were very committed and they needed funding. So that
was one project that is very exciting because you could
really feel the opportunities that you were creating by expanding
this and in Brazil as in the US education is
(38:40):
run by states and not the federal system, and so
the neighboring state of Padau also which has similar rural villages,
you know, it's also part of the Amazonia Rainforest, ended
up adopting and replicating the same reform. The other one
that I particularly proud of, only because it was something
(39:01):
that I really hadn't been trained for, but I knew
it was a very important reform, and it was in Chile.
Former President Michelle Bachellet. She was based with a lot
of protests by students in the streets demanding improvements and
the quality of schools, particularly of public schools, because at
(39:25):
the time, in order to get into universities and still today,
you have to pass a very high stakes university entrance examinations.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
It's like the SAT, but not the same because the SAT.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know, universities look at different variables to admit. SAT
is one of them, but in this context it's the
one variable. So if you don't meet a certain score,
you won't get in no matter what else you do.
And research and evidence was showing that students who were
attending public schools, even though they have a voucher system
(39:59):
in Chile, so that the government provides the same funding
pur student and families choose whether to attend the public
or private school. And for many reasons, the students who
were coming from these public schools that had been promised,
you know, essentially the same resources, the same opportunities, we're
finding themselves not able to get into the top universities.
(40:20):
And so they led these protests and one day the
president says, I'm going to create a Superintendency of education.
And Chile has a superintendency of banks, and it's essentially
like the bank regulator to make sure that banks actually
have the capital they need to ensure the loans, etc. Well,
(40:42):
similarly that pub private and public schools that are receiving
public funds are delivering on those funds, and that the
government is ensuring that all the resources are going.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Actually to the educational process.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
But nobody knew what that meant and what would this
institution do, and what would the Ministry of Education do,
and what with the municipal governments or districts that were
running schools do, and how would that all relate. So
they asked the World Bank to do some research essentially
of what countries with similar systems, you know, school choice
(41:18):
based systems and funding models similar to those of Chile.
How did they regulate sort of the financial aspect of
education and how did they ensure quality? And so this
ended up being a large project that I led at
you know, fairly early stage in my career that taught
me a lot of lessons because this was not one
(41:39):
example where you have a controlled experiment or rigorous evaluation
that you could refer to, because these large scale reforms
seldom can be done in a controlled experiment way or
you have, but you did have a number of countries
that could be used as exemplars, let's say that had
very good and learning outcomes and in equality and have
(42:04):
different ways of managing their quality assurance from the government side.
And so that was something that I really ended up
learning a lot from them. How do you do this
kind of research as different in nature, more comparative education
research if you wish, And then how do you engage with.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Different stakeholders in the country to understand what are their
worries and their concerns and also bring that back to
the decision makers. So, in a sense, we spent a
lot of time studying these system but really drawing lessons
and then consulting locally to see how does that sound
to you, Does what we interpret your doing and what
(42:43):
we think might work sound right to you or completely off,
and then perfect the research in that way.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
And that ended up.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Being part a very important part of a.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Reform that took place in the two thousands and the
Belief two thousand and ten, and it was approved by Congress.
And Chile an major reform has to go through their Congress,
and it's not a simple majority, so it requires a
lot of consensus building between different parties left and right
and center, left and center, right, et cetera. And you know,
(43:16):
it's been now gradually implemented. And I'm you know, I
won't say that we solved all the problems in Chile,
and for sure there are many, but one of the
things that it has done is made a lot more
A lot has made schools both be more accountable for
student learning and not just for enrolling and retaining kids,
but also make the government more evidence space in the
(43:39):
sense that they now have better information about how public
resources are being used. They can support schools that are
performing at different levels differently, and they have a whole
institutional setup to do that better than they did before
that before.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, yeah, you know, as you talk about this, you know,
what occurs to me is that you know, the old
notion educational, you know, compare and contrast right when you
write papers, and I think that, you know, I'm sure
that there are lessons you learned, you know, from abroad
that you can take back to the US and perhaps
you know, in form art or educational system and anything
(44:15):
come to mind in terms of you know, applicability of
how we might you know, you know, implement some of
these things that you learned abroad here.
Speaker 7 (44:23):
Yeah, I think you know, a lot of the interesting
let's say, high performing systems that we looked at have
a high value and really prioritize the quality of the
teaching profession and make it very attractive for high talented
(44:45):
people to become teachers.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
And I think that's something that has been lost in
much of the America, is including in the United States,
where teaching is still a profession that you know, is
very challenging. Anybody who has been a teach sure knows
how difficult it is. It's particularly difficult when you get
an increasingly you know, diverse set of students, some of
(45:08):
whom have learning differences some of whom have supports at
home that are that are different. And you know, a
single teacher has to be extremely skilled and and and
really good at what she does to get all these
students to learn. And I think the high performing countries
that that recognized this have placed a real value on
(45:34):
you know, who can be a teacher. And in order
to have enough teachers, they have to pay them well,
they have to support them well, they have to create
the conditions that the profession itself is is attractive and
respected economically and socially. And I think that is an
important lesson. I think particularly we saw during the pandemic,
(45:56):
you know, a lot of teacher burnout, and we've seen
a lot of former teachers choosing to take other paths
for their own mental health, I think, and well being,
which is totally legitimate, but it actually is not in
the best interest of our countries to have you know,
(46:17):
not the most and best people doing one of the
hardest stuff, which is training our future generations.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Right yeah, Okay, Well, I want to pick up that
when we come back from our final break. We love
a few minutes at the end to wrap things up
so folks don't go away. We have a lot more
in this pack, in this last segment within Leanna Vegas,
but I need to sneak in one more short break
(46:44):
and we'll be back with the Leanna Vegas, the author
of Let's Change the World, So Don't Go Anywhere.
Speaker 5 (46:51):
Mike Zorich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen thouns. Mike b
Line six birth was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was
a six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds,
and two fourths. He also won the Veteran's Folk Style
Wrestling twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In
(47:15):
all these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy
Zorich a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to
the stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states.
Her father, a commercial artist, who shared his instruments with
his daughter and helped her fine tune her natural abilities,
influenced her decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich
(47:38):
has enjoyed a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen
Saturday mornings at twelve Eastern with a Nancy and Mike show.
For heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
Are you struggling to care for elderly parents or a spouse?
Do you wonder if being a care giver is making
you sick? Are you worried about taking time off work
to care for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving?
Has caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining? Are you an
aging adult who wants to remain independent but you're not
sure how. I'm Pamela d Wilson. Join me for the
(48:17):
Carrying Generation radio show for caregivers and aging adults Wednesday evenings,
six Pacific, seven Mountain, eighth Central and nine Eastern, where
I answer these questions and share tips for managing stress,
family relationships, health, wellbeing, and more. Podcasts and transcripts of
The Carrying Generation are on my website Pamela Dwilson dot com,
(48:38):
plus my Caregiving library. Online caregiver support programs and programs
for corporations interested in supporting working caregivers. Help, hope and
support for caregivers is here on The Carrying Generation and
Pamela d Wilson dot com.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Welcome back Focus. Once again, we are talking with Emi
Leana Vegas, the author of Let's Change the World. So
in our last few minutes, I wanted to wrap up
some things by just asking and Leana if there any
sort of surprises in her career, and during the break
she mentioned me that she started out like me as
a journalist and aspirations and shifted by and that's often
(49:55):
how it happens. You just it leads. One thing leads
to another, you know, if you plan and don't but
then you see where it go. So any thoughts on
your own personal growth and things that you surprises that
you encountered, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Mean so many. I would say that what you just
underdo it too, I think is the biggest one that
you know, I always had a plan, but my friend
never materialized. And I tell my students today and people
who are looking for career guidance that it's really important
to have a plan because otherwise what are you, you know,
(50:30):
training for or working for. But also be very open
to changing plans when other opportunities arise. And so for me,
you know, I went to Harvard where I now teach,
to get a doctorate with the idea of becoming a
professor a tenure track in a university, and I had
(50:52):
this whole romantic idea of, you know, for someone like me,
raised in a very traditional household and wanting to be,
you know, a wife and a mother that I was.
I didn't see how that would work because I hadn't
seen other women who were parents also in the workforce,
and so academia seemed like the best way to combine
(51:13):
my interest in working for education policy, doing research but
also having some flexibility. And then soon after I graduated
and got my job offers the best and most attractive,
for multiple reasons was the World Bank, and I knew
I would started the research to pardon and I thought
to myself, well, just to research, publish, and then moved
(51:36):
to a university, and it turns out that I didn't
love the daily life, the day to day life of
just doing research. I feel like when I did it
as a doctoral student getting my dissertation, it had an
end date, right, and I was working toward finishing a
product and then moving on. But when you're always doing research,
you don't really have deadlines that are really important or
(51:59):
fix do. You have some deadlines, but they're always movable.
You can if you're a pure researcher you have to
take the time to do it well, and you don't
control all the variables. And so for me, I realized
when I moved, you know, as part of the Young
Professionals program, I had to do a rotation and I
moved to the Middle East and North Africa Education team,
(52:21):
where I first started doing research that actually was being
used by a government right away in Tunisia and Morocco.
And that was like where I found my groove. And
so I've scrapped the idea of going to you know,
try and get tenure in the traditional let's say academic
academic path and and it's funny to me that and.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
It is surprising that I'm backed in academia.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
But now, you know, as I mentioned, it's a professional
school and they recruit professors at both you know, professors
who are you know, in that they call it ladder,
so they're they're tenured and have your track, and also
professors for what they call the practice track. So I'm
in that track, which is what I bring to the
school into the students, is my experience working in the
(53:11):
real world and outside of academia.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, right, well, fortunately you've come close to the end
of the show. I just want to thank you for
a terrific conversation. I think it's always terrifically. I know
that Harvard's been in the news for other reasons these days,
so it's good to have someone who's on the ground
there can give us people a sense of what you
do there and how you contribute to your students. So
(53:35):
thank you for a terrific conversation. How can people how
can people reach you? They need to want to get
in touch with you.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Sure, I have a website, my personal website, which is
my first name and last name, so Emi Leona Vegas dot.
Speaker 8 (53:49):
Com, and that has all my details including where you
can get the book if you're interested in you know, events,
and I will also put the link to the recording
of the show there.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Very terrific. Okay, so folks, once again, this has been
forty five forward and Bowl Brave TV. I thank you
for spending this hour with me and helping me learn
and hope you've learned something from a Migniana. I want
to thank also my engineer Alex, part of a terrific
team at Bowl Brave TV who helps you through every show.
(54:24):
Be sure to join me next Wednesday is seven pm
Eastern time during the beginning of Alzheimer's Brain and Awareness Month,
when I'll be talking to Jim Taylor, the CEO of
Voices of Alzheimer's, and Carol Steinberg, a writer and former
executive and several Alzheimer's organizations, and the author of a
wonderful cross generational children's book for families with people living
(54:45):
with Alzheimer's. So, folks, until next week, keep moving forward,
forty five forward.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
This has been forty five forward with host Rowell. Tune
in each week as Ron tackles the many aspects of health, finance,
family and friends, housing, work, and personal pursuits, all as
part of an integrated plan and to take charge of
your unretiring life during these uncertain times. Wednesdays, seven pm
(55:20):
Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network, powered by B
two Studios
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