August 13, 2025 • 61 mins
What does it really mean to age well? In this episode, host Ron Roel speaks with Diana Yin, co-founder of BetterAge, a mission-driven public benefit corporation helping older adults take control of their health and well-being with a personalized "journey map" for aging. Diana shares her vision of empowering people through awareness, action, and achievement—three stages that help individuals build new habits, find purpose, and live a more fulfilling life. She also discusses BetterAge’s groundbreaking NIH-backed study, the science behind incremental change, and how their holistic approach connects users to real-world support in over 50 U.S. communities. Whether you're caring for a loved one or planning your own path forward, this episode will inspire you to see aging not as decline—but as a time of opportunity, growth, and innovation. Learn more: https://www.betterage.net Ron’s caregiving guide: https://www.caregivingnav.com Full archive of episodes: https://45forward.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
People really don't like change, and basically they do it.
They change when the pain of not changing exceeds the
fear of change of the unknown.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And people were telling us from the study that they
had taken on new things over fifty percent after four weeks.
People were coming back and telling us that they had
gone to their doctor and their doctor thought that they
love ten years younger than they were.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello, everyone, welcome to forty five Forward. I'm your host,
Ron Roell. Now many philosophers and coaches and longevity experts
talk about the aging process being a journey. Well, of
course it is. It's a journey. But what does that mean?
What does it mean to have this journey? What are
you pack in this journey? Who's your guide? Where are
you going? You know? What do you need to get
(00:59):
to your destination? So in today's episode, I'll be talking
to Diana in who is the CEO and co founder
of Better Age, whose mission is to help older adults
create a personalized guide to live and age. Well, it's
an intriguing challenge. Everyone's journey is different, different options, possibilities, questions, pitfalls,
(01:21):
and Better Age has a special three age program. It's
sort of a health and wellbeing Google map that supports
individuals on their journey to get the most of life.
So now let's meet our guests, Diana in and talk
about Better Age. So, Diana, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, it's so nice to here. We've had a few conversations.
It's always glad to have you on a whole show
all to myself.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, and also thanks for having Ron Kaiser on before.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Us before this. Yes, so before you end, we'll talk
about the fact that this is actually sort of a
three part series focusing on different aspects of Better Age.
So you're you're one of the co founders, so you
have a lot to do with this with the organization
of course. So let's just begin with you a little
(02:13):
bit before I go into Better Age. Uh, I'm always
interested in my guess they always have interesting stories, forty
five forward stories. So it's a little bit about your background,
about how you got into this space and what what
your goal is with Better Age.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, you know, my career is not a straight line,
I think, as as as perhaps it's the case with
many people who are now my age. You know, we
were always toltal when we were growing up you're going
to have like one career, you're going to stay in
it for a very long time, and then you know,
and then you'll retire. And I feel like my career
(02:51):
has been anything but but where I am now is
the culmination of this kind of you know, you know,
zig zaggy path. But the through line has always been
about making an impact and having social impact. So I've
worked in the nonprofit sector, I've worked in the public sector.
I've worked in the private sector. I had many many
(03:14):
years as a results driven management consultant, but even then
I helped co found the public sector practice where we
worked with large government agencies and did a lot of
the low bono pro bono consulting for nonprofits. And I
started my career actually at and it was my most
(03:34):
recent previous job at Onlock, which is the inventor of
the PACE program, and that's the program of all inclusive
care for the elderly. So I learned a lot at Onlock,
which actually informs what we're doing here at Better Age.
And you know, if people don't know about Onlock and
don't know about the program of all inclusive care for
(03:56):
the frail elderly or or the elderly known as PACE.
It is a program to watch. It has been around
for forty plus years. It's actually written into Medicare, is
a permanent option for folks who need skilled, uh you know,
skilled nursing level of care. And it provides essentially no cost,
(04:20):
universal coverage for all of the different aspects of aging
in place. So it's rather amazing and it's an evident,
evidence based program that has been proven to work over
the many decades that it's been around. So, yeah, so
cool something to maybe should have someone from PACE on
(04:40):
your show next.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, I have I have included PACE in my Caregiving
Navigator guide for family caregivers and and it's it's it's
a it's a brief description of the program, but when
you read it's like, this is pretty powerful. You can
sort of sense it. And it's one of the things,
you know, we've got such a disparate system. It's one
(05:04):
of the few efforts that actually tries to put things
together in one bright, holistic way, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So and so now you see the inspiration also of
better age, because one of the benefits of PACE is
that all of those, as you said, disparate parts of
the sort of care fabric are in one place, but
you do have to be eligible for PACE, meaning you
(05:31):
have to be nursing home eligible or skilled nursing eligible,
and not everybody needs that, right, and not everybody is that.
So what we're trying to do at better age is
actually have that same idea that you know, at different
points in your life you need lots of different things, right,
and at some points you may need more or less
(05:52):
or dial up or dial down certain things. And for
your audience in the sort of over forty five, you
know you're not quite an older adult yet, so lucky,
but at the same time, there's some things that you
know that you probably want to watch out for, right,
and perhaps having a map or having some sort of
(06:14):
you know, journey planner is a step in the right
direction to start thinking about the things you might want
to work on. There's a medical doctor in our community
of friends, and he said that there's a thirty sixty
ninety year ole. Right, So when you're younger than thirty,
(06:38):
you can do all sorts of things. Let's not say
abuse your body, but whatever you do to your body,
you're likely to bounce back really quickly. Right, But between
thirty and sixty you really need to start developing the
habits that are about taking care of your body, and
that will set you up for the next thirty years
post sixty. But if between thirty sixty you're still abusing
(07:01):
your body, it's going to be harder for you to
develop those habits that you will need when you're you know,
sixty plus. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So right, yeah, So before we dive into that little
bit more, I tell me a little bit about So
Better Age is a public benefit corporation, so tell us
a little bit about about that's about, you know, so
it's not addictional nonprofit, you know. But so why did
you go that course?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's a great question, you know. At the origination of
my coming to Better Age, and that was only a
little over two years ago, the board was actually, I
don't want to say divided, but a little bit split
on whether we should continue our path as a nonprofit
(07:48):
or can or or really become a for profit company.
And there were actually two organizations that were set up.
One was a five to one C three nonprofit and
the other was an incorporate you know, incorporated entity. We
did a strategic alignment session and it turns out we
actually wanted to do both, right, We wanted to have
(08:10):
the accountability of a for profit company with you know,
certain governance and certain metrics in place, and we wanted
to be financially accountable and sustainable. That was the key,
right to be accountable and sustainable, because we want to
be around for the long term. On the other side,
we wanted to really be about mission and social impact.
(08:33):
And the public benefit corporation is the blend where you
can be margin focused and mission focused. So that's the
path that we've taken.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I worked with a lot
of nonprofits and agencies and people ask me about war
you a nonprofit. My response, you know, little tongue in cheek,
is well, I'm a not much profit but not necessarily
by intent. But but also I just you know, of course,
(09:06):
you know, as a nonprofit, you can people get paid.
You know, it's not you know, volunteer work, you know,
make money, but it is it's directed and you know,
and it's mission driven. But it's also constrained. I mean,
you have to have board, you know. And so I
just working for me in the aging and caregiving area
(09:28):
that I'm I wanted more flexibility to really be able
to maneuver it and part of with people and really
promote things. So it makes a lot of sense for
me that your direction.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So I think that yeah, yeah, you know, I think
the you know, I worked a nonprofit for years and
it was a consultant and nonprofit, so that space is
really familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And I love, love, love the heart anybody who works
in a nonprofit, and I love the mission focus. And
nonprofits are able to attract a lot of people well
because a lot of people do really want their their
meaningful hours of the day to be directed toward meaningful
causes and meaningful pursuits. So nonprofits can attract amazing talent
(10:14):
in that way. But the one thing that is really
tough for nonprofits is the funding, right, So funding is
difficult to get. It sometimes is not always, is not
always guaranteed, and UH philanthropy UH typically does not want
(10:36):
to be the only source of revenue for you know,
mission mission pursuit. So I will say that one of
the one of the avenues that UH small businesses have
is something called the Small Business Innovation Research Grant. That is,
(10:58):
you know, it's a little confect and I really do
think it needs a lot more visibility or maybe even promotion.
But this is what is called America's Seed Grant or
America's Seed Fund, and it is the funding that actually
drives a lot of innovation around the government's sort of
(11:21):
big agenda, big big, big priorities. And one of the
priorities that has actually been very consistent at the national
level is this focus on how we can promote healthy aging.
And so the NIH which is the National Institute's for Health,
is an agency that also has this program. I think
(11:43):
all the agencies have this program, and it's for sure
called the sbi R. So one of the drivers for
us to really kind of be in this public benefit
corporation world is that we are officially a small business
and so we can actually pursue that funding which is
not available to nonprofits. And if you can get it,
(12:08):
it's terrific because it's capital that goes toward research and
also product development for innovative solutions around healthy aging. So
it's like perfect for us. So ron the nice thing
is we did pursue it, and you know, it's a
very low success rate sixteen percent for Phase one and
(12:32):
thirteen percent on average for this Phase one Phase two
fast track, and we were able to be awarded one.
So that that was a really good strategy and a
really good execution on our part, and we're very very
lucky that we were very aligned with the mandate of
(12:52):
that program.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, but extremely competitive. Wow yeah right, yeah, yeah yeah.
So let's talk about it about the founding of Better Age.
So let's talk a little bit first broadly about your goals,
your ambitions, sort of the big.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Ideas, you know. I think the biggest idea is really
simple but hard to execute, which is quality of life
for longer. Right. So, Americans are living longer, I think,
and it will only become longer if you take the
COVID effect out. My kids generation actually when they're teenagers
(13:32):
are going to live to one hundred and twenty right, So, right,
and so we are looking at a lot of longevity.
Oftentimes we think of this really rosy picture of growing
older and spending time with your loved ones and being
healthy and all that. But there's also another picture, which
is that with longer life also comes the introduction of
(13:57):
chronic additions, and the mismanagement or just the lack of
understanding how to manage these chronic conditions can compound to
lead to even more what we call comorbidities, right, the
sort of you know, multiple multiple chronic conditions at the
same time. So what we're trying to do is really
(14:20):
emphasize the potential of growing older, and with that potential
is the quality of life and quality of life around
not just having mobility and physical fitness, but also having
intellectual fitness, having social fitness, having a flourishing life, having
a thriving life, being able to do the things that
(14:42):
you want to do, being able to learn new things
all the time, being in that frame of mind where
getting older doesn't mean getting closer to some end.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
State, right, right, Yeah, I think a lot of longevity
people talk about, you know, closing the gap between lifespan
and health span. Yeah, and so you know, yes, it's
good to have a long life, but you know, what
kind of healthy life do you have? But I like,
you're even more holistic, you know, So it's it's closing
the gap between lifespan and quality of lifespan. Right, It's
(15:16):
not just about health, it's about a lot of things
that you know, maintain a sense of quality of life.
And I know that you're you know that you're guided
through certain values which I like a lot. I mean
I think looking at your website, I mean, so the
importance of respect, integrity, humility, all voices matter. I mean
(15:37):
those sorts of values I think are so to me.
That's what makes the difference, is that, yes, you're your corporation,
but but these are human values that are driving you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Do you mind if I talk a little bit about our.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Team, absolutely, yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well we say that all voices matter. You know, our
team is the embodying that. So our primary founder, his
name is Jim Furman, is a wonderful, wonderful person. He
was the CEO of the National Council in Aging for
twenty five years and before that the CEO of an
economic Equity for Seniors organization. He will not mind that
(16:19):
I say, he just turned seventy four. He is an
amazing individual, huge heart, has a doctor and an education
and is really passionate about interjet Cindy was on before,
but is really passionate about intergenerational programming, right, and that's
an evidence based approach to also also healthy aging. Right.
(16:44):
So his voice matters a ton because he is in
some ways our user base. Right. We also have an
eighty seven year old Chief Immersion officer, but he has
been a positive psychologist, a clinician by training for over
fifty years. So his voice matters and when we look
(17:05):
at if you ever look at our product, his voice
permeates that product because we want to be able to
motivate people, right And as a positive psychologist, there's a
certain way that you kind of can phrase things that
still gives you promise instead of pessimism. Right, So his
(17:27):
voice is really important to us and hopefully to all
of the older adults we serve. We have a chief
technology officer, Steven Engels, who is absolutely amazing. He can
build anything, and he has been in this space for
over twenty years building consumer friendly products for older adults. Right,
(17:49):
So when we talk about software development a product development,
his voice really matters, right, and that you can see
that the UI and the user journey is really a
reflection of his experience. And then Mike Webb is our
chief data officer and really our lead AI engineer. And
you know, actually he and I worked at Unlock together,
(18:10):
and so while you know we've got like a strong
technologist in him, his point of reference is actually older
adults also, right. So, and the integrity and the integrity
of the architecture and the back end is highly focused
(18:32):
on privacy and data security and all of those things
that give us greater comfort and trust in anything we
interact with online these days. Right, So I just wanted
since you mentioned I wanted to talk about this founding team.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, that's great. So this is a good point, and
we're going to just take a quick break, Diana, So folks,
when we come back, we'll be talking much more. Diana
In the CEO and co founder Better Age. So don't
go anywhere.
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(19:22):
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Speaker 1 (19:44):
Welcome back, folks. We're talking today with Diana In, the
CEO and co founder of Better Age. Before the break,
we were talking about how Better Age assemble their team
and who's on the team, which is a let me
talk about that more later, because it's a really interesting
group actually on the technological side, because I think that's
something that we're in a cusp of something very different
(20:05):
in terms of you know, seniors and technology or just
older people in technology. And I you know, I I
do like to use the word older people. You know,
I think seniors. You know, people say the seniors, and
I often say, well, it's like a senior in high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, and and and a comedian knows listen the
(20:28):
other day, So well that's you know, sort of seniors meetings.
That's like when you're a senior high school, nowhere else
to go, you know, But when you're an older person,
that's you got places to go still, so it's not
like the end. So anyways, So but so let's talk about,
you know, how you've set up your programs, and basically
you talk about trying to put together health and well
(20:49):
being Google map for people, so to speak. So let's
talk about your concepts.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah great. So the first thing I guess I'll say is,
we do believe that people need to interact with the
real world. So we're not building a platform that is
dominated by the digital experience. So we are building a
digital health platform, but we believe strongly in the reinforcement,
(21:19):
the support, the supplementation. What's the supplement of the bricks
and mortar world. There is an entire ecosystem run out
there that hopefully your listeners know about, but if they don't,
I'm going to mention it. There's a whole ecosystem of
incredibly awesome aging services programs out there. Many of them
(21:44):
are funded by local government, by state government, and by
federal government and also philanthropic private dollars. So you may
hear them as community centers or senior centers or I
know they still the word seniors is hard to say
older adult center, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Use it's like fine, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And there are a lot of programs that are also
offered at like your local y m c A or
or like you know, dance programs or other you know,
private gyms. So there's like a lot out there that
people can already be leveraging. We don't want to duplicate
any of those things, just like Google isn't duplicating you know,
(22:29):
the coffee shop that it recommends right like it's it's
it's just recommending and it knows about it. We're going
to go one step further. We partner with these organizations
and right now, all of them are community based organizations
that offer evidence based programs and services. So we like
(22:49):
to work with partners because we like to highlight the
the services they already have. Right So, along the journey,
we don't tell you what your destination is, right, we
hope that you'll choose the destination that's right for you,
like whether it be you know, sleep hygiene or you know,
like whatever it is. And then along the way, there
(23:11):
are actions that you're going to take, and a lot
of these actions can actually be supplemented or reinforced by
the community right outside your door, and so we try
to connect you to that community. So so the idea
of the map really starts with an assessment that within
ten minutes we have asked you a variety of questions.
(23:33):
I won't tell you exactly how many, but within ten
minutes and you know, it averages to be about nine
point four minutes that people you know, kind of finish it.
We personalize guidance for you, right, so we ask all
sorts of things and at the end of it, we
give you an assessment. We give you a sense of
(23:54):
your strengths. We kind of try to place you in
the community of others who've taken the assessment that like
you and present you with some personalized recommendations and interventions,
although we call them journeys that we encourage you to
select right so and then as you select them, then
(24:15):
a process of engagement ensues. But all of it is
really based on the idea that older adults have made
gazillions of choices already in their lives, and we are
not in a position too, you know, make decisions for
you right out of respect, right that you've made gazillions
(24:38):
of decisions for yourself, right, But we show you the why,
the what, the how right and then if you make
a decision to take one of these journeys, then we'll
be with you along the way right and continue to
show you the things that could help you achieve the
goals that you set for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
How do you begin the engagement with people? Do they
contact you through your website or how do they How
does that process work?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
They can, but at the moment, ron since we're still
pretty young in our maturity, we only offer the assessment
and the platform through our partners so but right now,
you're luckily, we're in something like over fifty communities across
the US and it's growing so hopefully. And I wish
I could show you our map, but if you go
(25:26):
to our website, there's an immature listing of I mean
it's immature, and that it's it's it was about it's
about a year old. So we have a lot more
partners on our website than we actually show the you know,
show on our website.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
But that's how they're that's how they find your your
partners if they go to your website, which is betterage
dot net, right, so that's where they can find the
partners too, right.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
But our partners are amazing, and like I said, we
have something like over fifty partners now and they reach
out to their communities and offer the tool to those
in their communities. So I'll just highlight a couple of
places that are just amazing. So we work with Saint
(26:16):
Patrick's Senior Center in Detroit. They used to offer I
don't know if they still do it, so patrisea if
you don't do it anymore, I'm sorry for mentioning it.
But they had a partnership with a local supermarket, and
they would offer you know, coupons to the supermarket for
you know, taking the assessment, right, And so every partner
(26:41):
will do it a little bit differently to you know,
get the word out and incentivize hopefully people to take it.
But we also ask people once they're on the link
why they take this assessment And I want to say
something like fifty I should have this number of my fingertips,
something like fifty percent actually take it because they're curious.
(27:01):
They want to know what what what what we'll say
about their health and well being status, So they find
us and we find them right right.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, So, uh, I guess you you have a three
stage program. Let's talk a bit about that. It's triple eighth.
I guess a where does action and achievement? So let's
let's unpack that a bit.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Okay, So, uh, you know a lot of people really
don't know where they stand in terms of their well being.
They may have a very good sense of where they
stand in terms of their medical issues, right or their
medical profile, but we really believe that you are more
than your medical record. Your medical record and if you
you know, your own metal record, you know is not
(27:49):
always inspiring so so so we really believe that an
individual is made up of more than what their medical
record it says. And we also take heart in a
lot of the evidence that shows that your health outcomes
are actually only twenty percent driven by your clinical settings, right,
(28:12):
and the other eighty percent is driven by all this
non clinical stuff. Right. Some of it is genetic, some
of it is behavior, some of it is you know, environment, right,
but eighty percent is actually not what you're getting from
a clinical setting, right. So the awareness of that other
(28:33):
eighty percent is very important to us. And a lot
of people don't have a sense of you know, how
they're doing vis a v. Their sleep. They may have
a sense of their meaning and purpose, which is actually
very important as we get older to continue to have
meaning and purpose. They may have a sense of their
(28:55):
social supports, but they don't have a snapshot of how
that fits it's in the overall profile of their well being. Right.
So we ask a lot of things about folks, only
one is actually related to their health, their clinical.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Health status, right, well beings.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So many other domains, right, And so bringing that level
of awareness, we call it measuring what matters, right, and
we try to standardize what matters. We have a whole
theory of change around the dimensions of well being. We
(29:35):
start with that as a premise, and that's not an
invention of our own, although I think that we've refined
it quite a lot. But there's a lot of evidence
out there right about what these healthy domains, of these
health and wellbeing domains are, And we really start with
the evidence base, right, and the core assessment we use
(29:55):
is actually was first originated by the Institute for Healthcare
or Improvement the IHI SO and then from there we
prompt people to take action either again online with us
or with a partner that we connect them with. And
then the achievement piece is premised on some level of
(30:21):
motivation theory, right, where if you give people choices, if
you give people small, small sets of choices, you give
people a reason to believe like why they're doing this,
and they buy into that, then they're more aptimate these
choices and take these actions and self prescribed goals, right,
(30:41):
And we break down these actions to very small steps.
And Ron you may know this already, but you should
never tell somebody to lose twenty pounds, you know, like that,
Just people don't just say I mean it's the rare
(31:03):
person who's like, Okay, I'm gonna lose twenty pounds. You
told me to lose twenty pounds lose It's hard to
imagine for me myself like being told that I'm just
going to go do it. But you break it down
into meaningful steps right, right, and those can be achieved
(31:23):
right and then before you know it, you've taken these
small steps every day and they've accumulated into a new routine,
a new habit for your day. And big health outcomes
are big health dividends, well health and wellbeing dividends, right,
So that achievement piece is not about one big epic
(31:45):
statement of change.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
We're going to take another quick break, so folks again,
we're talking much more of Dianie In when we come
back from the break, the CEO and co founder of
Better Age. So come right back.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Do you like what you're here, Well, we've got plenty
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(32:24):
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(32:49):
out and keep moving forward. Forty five Forward.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Welcome back to forty five Forward once again. This is
your host, Ron Roell talking with Diana Yin, the CEO
and co founder of Better Age. Before the break, we
were talking about their program of awareness, action and achievement
getting people through change, and we were talking about the
importance of incremental change, which I think is something that
(33:25):
is really important and not emphasized enough. I'm glad you
do it because I think that we were in a
society where it was like, oh, you can do this,
and you know, I lost forty pounds in twenty days,
you know, and this sort of thing, so we undervalue,
you know, the importance of incremental change. And I think,
(33:49):
you know, I remember actually years ago when I was
covering business and I was covering business management, and they
were looking at, you know, Japanese style of management, and
there was their theory of continuous improvement and you know,
that was based upon the same sort of thing where
you know before you know, at one point, you know,
(34:09):
Japanese cars were like really inferior to America, right right right,
and then they said, well, let's look at American cars.
And then the companies and Japanese companies will say, well,
let's let's just change this a little bit, let's try this,
let's try this, you know, and then you know, five
or six or seven years later, you'd have a completely
new car based upon all these incremental changes that were
(34:33):
was really dramatically different. So I think that, you know,
it is sort of a you know, a narrative that's
important to go against, you know, our current uh infatuation
with fast change, you know, like overnight change you can
change because it just doesn't happen, doesn't stick. And I
think to your point, it requires building in new habits,
(34:56):
and that takes time and persistence.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I think there's even a I think the book
is called make it Stick. I think it's I think
it's called that. And one of the examples I wish
I could remember the author, but one of the examples
in the book is trying to develop new habits. And
I think one of them was around exercise. And I
(35:23):
think that the the idea is that you already have
some habits, right, So you brush your teeth every night
and every morning, right, you already have a habit around that.
But what are you doing when you brush your teeth?
You're just you're standing there. And so the idea of
trying to make a new habit stick is to, you know,
do some toe raises while you're brushing your teeth. Right
(35:45):
before you know it, you've actually done like three sets
of you know, ten or twelve toe raises. So so
I think those kinds of things are are like kind
of life hacks, right, and little tips, and and that's
that that's kind of the same spirit of the idea
of small steps, right.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, And I think that I think you've talked to
me before about a lot of this is really comes
down to managing change, right, So talk about that because
that's something that's again people talk about a lot about
magic change not so easy, and how to help people
think about that because that's what's happening over the course
of your life.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right, Right. So I mentioned Ron, our chief psychology officer,
and he's the one who really has gotten us thinking
about aging as a process of change. You know, we
maybe are introduced to oh my gosh, we're aging. If
(36:46):
we have a big milestone birthday, right, maybe maybe some
of your listeners are going to hit a milestone birthday, right,
And that feels like, okay, that's I'm being reminded of
my age.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
You know, your first diagnosis, you know, pre diabetes or
you know hypertension, or you know you're you watch this,
or your first colonoscopy or you know all those things
that you know, are we anchored to those things as
as as milestones of aging? And you know, aging is
(37:21):
not really like that, right. It's the one thing. I
was at a conference, you know, the other day, and
as a way to kind of step into what I
was doing because I was actually a conference that had
nothing to do with aging. I had more to do
with technology. And I said, there is one thing that
we're all doing right now at the same time, right,
and that's and and I asked people to guess, and
you know, they're like learning about AI or you know,
(37:43):
it's like, well, we're actually all aging at this very moment.
And of course we all are, and you know, subconsciously
you know that. But to bring that to the conscious level, right,
and really then say like, in order to embrace this journey,
we have to think about it as kind of an
everyday process, right or an you know, conscious process, right.
(38:07):
And any time we bring on change, there's going to
be tension and friction because that is what change is, right.
It is not the same, and so there's always going
to be tension, there's always going to be friction, and
we just have to recognize that when we bring it
to the conscious level, we're we're more able to tackle
(38:28):
it or address it or do things about it. And
it's not as that it doesn't it doesn't feel as
big a task, right I or you know, like versus
denying that I'm aging or you know whatever it is, right, right.
So I was also thinking about innovation as you were
talking on because I thought what you said was really
(38:49):
was really insightful. Changes usually is usually let me think
about this, is it can be often tied to innovation, right,
like a new technology. You know, we all have to
get used to it. That's change, right, a change? Uh uh,
(39:10):
let's just stay with that one, right. So, so we
can also think about aging as a journey of change
and also innovation. We can innovate in our own lives, right,
we can. We can innovate our practices, we can innovate
how we approach things, we can innovate our mindset, we
can innovate all sorts of things around our lives. Right,
(39:33):
And whenever we do that and take on that challenge,
we're also introducing change right conscious consciously introducing change. So anyway,
I could go on and on, but I won't. About change, No.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I think, well, I think it is an important thing,
and I think part of it is that we basically
underplay how difficult is for people, even positive change. So
I think that, you know, one of my little formulas
is that, uh, people really don't like change, and basically
they do it. They change when the pain of not
(40:07):
changing exceeds the fear of change. And and so I
think we get into our habits, and you know there
in some cases to change that habit, you know, the
trigger has to be there has to be some sort
of replacement, like, well, what is what takes the place
(40:30):
of this habit? That is, you know, an improvement or
that we're you know in some way you know, motivates
me enough to make this change. And you know, because
people get stuck in patterns, even if they're bad ones,
because they're comfortable and they know them, and you know
it's bad like bad relationships are. Okay, well, at least
I know what it is. But I think that you know, uh,
(40:54):
and I think that innovation sometimes comes, you know, through
that your ear to place where you're stuck. And so
I say, okay, well, this is not going anywhere. I
guess it's sort of a notion that some therapist is
talking about. It is quite all right here you are.
It's radical acceptance, not going to change. So what do
I do now? I stay here? But you know, what
(41:14):
is the innovation that's going to take me to think
about it in another way? Yeah? And I think that that.
But you know, living longer and thinking about your wellbeing
I think encourages that kind of thinking. So you know,
it's it's it's a broader kind of thinking that I think.
You know, places like better age, you know, are important
(41:35):
catalysts for that, you know, that thought process.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I was so impressed with this,
you know, young college guy that I that I that
I met at a friend's dinner. You know, I have
a huge problem with sleep. I'm just going to say,
like you know, when you when you when you you know,
(41:59):
when you were talking, I was like, well, I have
a bad habit and that's I don't have good sleep hygen.
That's just like a bad habit. But I work really hard.
So just but I met this this college kid. I
was so impressed with him because he went to bed
and he's in college, right, so college you conjure up
(42:20):
you know, late night partying and you know whatever, but
he went to bed most nights by nine or ten o'clock.
Now he is an incredibly accomplished kid, young, young, young person, right,
but he went to bed every night at like nine
or ten o'clock. I'm like, how do you manage to
do that? And why do you mean? He's like, you know,
I just in high school realized that I feel better,
(42:44):
I'm more awake, I'm more alert. I'm just a happier
person when I get like eight hours of sleep, and
I have to do that starting at nine because I
get up early. Right, So right, and it just cemented
something that you know, Ron said to our team, which
is so much of this change has to do with
(43:08):
recognizing the benefits, right, So being conscious about writing down
how you feel when you do something that you want
to be doing right, and that kid just did it naturally, right.
He just naturally said, I just feel better when I
(43:30):
get eight hours of sleep and I go to sleep
early enough that I can get eight hours of sleep,
I just feel better, I'm and he just remembers that.
And through how high school he just developed that habit
and now in college it's just second nature, right, But
it took some time anyway. So that's sort of what
we're trying to do with better age with the folks
that we work with.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So we.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Did just finish of phase one of this NIH study.
And yeah, we we can't talk about all the details
until we actually published the study. That's part of the
NAH rules, but we want to definitely kind of highlight
a couple of things. Kind to preview the study. We
(44:13):
asked people to do the assessment. You know, they received
the personalized report. We asked the some probing questions, and
then we personalized their guidance and their actions, and then
we followed them for four weeks and we offered them
weekly check ins. Most people actually chose check ins not
(44:35):
by not in person, but by email our text. After
four weeks, people were telling us from the study that
they had taken on new things over fifty percent over
sixty When Jim comes on, he'll tell the exact numbers,
but over sixty percent actually took at least one and
(44:58):
many two actions based on the recommendations. After four weeks,
people were coming back and telling us that they had
gone to their doctor and their doctor thought that they
love ten years younger than they were. Wow, I mean,
it's incredible. Right, this is not anything that we have
(45:19):
actively done. We gave them recommendations that were personalized to them.
They chose to do them because those recommendations resonated with them.
They felt like we got to know them well enough
to make these personalized recommendations. And then we did weekly
chickens with them, right, and that just light light, light
(45:40):
LTE accountability was enough for them to follow through on
a lot of the actions and take on new ones. Right.
So it's incredible when people choose to consciously do things
on their own, little bit of light accountability, not a
heavy touch right, really can make a big difference in
(46:01):
their lives. And that and it doesn't take a long time,
but over time taking on new actions, achieving them continuing
on this process right really can pay off, like you
know in big health outcomes. So now I say that
that's not part of the study, right, that's a continuous
(46:21):
process for us to keep studying the efficacy of what
we're doing right.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So I know that Jim Ferman, your other co founder,
will be talking about this more in depth and when
he comes on in a couple of weeks. But just
give us this how many people were involved in this study.
Just give us a brief preview of what Jim's going
to talk about.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, so many more people were involved in focus groups
and in depth interview, in depth interviews and et cetera.
So a lot of the that level of co design
led to a prototype, and that prototype was then piloted
with over forty five older adults drawn from Half of
(47:04):
them were drawn from the caregiver population, and half of
them were non caregivers. And there is a significant difference
in how caregivers respond to non caregivers. So that's something
that we want to take a much closer look at.
And I will say this, We are really interested in
(47:28):
the caregiver population because it is growing. It is the
backbone of the healthcare system. And as I think that
these are unsung hero os that go through a lot,
So we would like to do as much as we
(47:49):
can to support caregivers.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, well that's certainly something that I applaud having produced
this family caregiving guy with the Caregiving Navigator and then
and you know, so it's focused mostly on you know,
caring for older loved ones, you know, family caregivers, you know,
the people who do it and are not paid to
do it, although that is part of it, you know,
(48:13):
as you guys know, you know, a care team, caregiving
team with professionals. But I think this is something that
you know, I feel like it's still a nascent movement.
You know, we're you know, so years ago we thought
about you know, first we were parents and then we
were caregiving parents, and then realizing that there was there
(48:35):
were child care needs and what happens when culture changes
and there are more women at work and how do
families change? And I think we're now developing now we're
looking at elder care. But I think we're making connections
just as a caregiving population, the spectrum because obviously as
we live longer too, it's the spectrum of caregiving widens
(48:59):
as well from childcare too, and sometimes you know, even
though your children are grown, you know, you're still a parent,
and they're caregiving issues. And then and so you know,
people talk about the sandwich generations of you know, caring
for younger and older, and now I talk about the
club Sandwich generation because older people can be taken care
(49:20):
of yet older people, you know, and I think that's
happening to your point earlier about are your children? Are
children going to live to one hundred and twenty. It's like, wow,
that's going to be a dramatic change. So so I
want to talk just to do a quick wrap up,
and we'll take a quick break and then we'll do
a wrap up and I'll give people contact information, so
(49:41):
forth for you. So, folks, we have one more quick
segment with so don't go anywhere, We'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (49:49):
Caring for a loved one can feel overwhelming. That's why
we created caregiving nav dot com, your personal guide through
the complex world of care. It's a free, interactive website
built around the Caregiving Navigator Book, with tools designed to
make your journey easier. Whether you're planning ahead, managing care
(50:12):
right now, or navigating a crisis, you'll find step by
step advice trusted resources, and over a dozen downloadable checklists.
From legal planning to home safety, from medical decisions to
emotional support. It's all here, all in one place. Just
(50:33):
visit caregiving nav dot com because you're not alone on
this path and the help you need is just a
click away.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Hey, folks, welcome back to forty five Forward. I'm your host,
Ron Robell, once again talking with Diane in the CEO
and co founder of Better Age. So we were talking
about a lot of things before the break. I wanted
to now just you know, I have Diana talked a
little bit about it sort of going forward. I mean,
we have the pilot studies that you're rolling out and
(51:13):
are your co founder Jim Firman, will be talking about
that more in a couple of weeks. But I want
to catch some of your thoughts about, you know what,
so what's next for you? What do you think where
the sense of not only for better aid but more,
you know broadly, what are our challenges? And we talked
(51:34):
about caregiving. I think you're I think that is a
big challenge and I think we have to think about
it in a much broader way.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
I mean, we could do a whole segment on caregiving.
I mean, you know, I think ron in terms of
like the biggest challenges, I think that we are going
to face an interesting duality. So on the one hand,
we have people who are going to be facing information overload. Right,
(52:06):
there's just so much information. I mean, if you know,
if it's like you know, you you cough a little
bit or whatever, you can absolutely find sixteen different diagnoses
online for why you might be coughing. Right. And now
with the pace of content generation, you know, boosted by AI,
(52:29):
it's even more information that's out there, and you know,
some to sift through, right, because are there is misinformation
too about certain things. On the other side, you're an
information gap because during the pandemic, so almost virtually all
health education moved online, right, because there's no other way
to deliver that health education. But there's but there's there's
(52:52):
a health information gap, right. Not everybody is digitally familiar,
you know. Least internet access is improving, so that part
of the digital divide I think is getting better. But
the digital familiarity in the digital literacy, along with health
literacy is still a big, big issue. And so you've
got folks who are going to be facing information overload,
(53:15):
and then you've got folks who still have information gaps,
and how do we actually address both populations equally right?
How do we address both populations with what they need
right and they don't need the same thing. So I
think that's a big that's a big challenge, and it's
one I feel like we are wanting to take on,
(53:36):
you know, by delivering information that people need at the
right time, with the right sensitivity around their context and
directing them to sort of the you know, connecting them
to the to the right resources.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, I think that's an important point. I'm glad you
brought that up. And I think that for me, the technology,
you know, at the very beginning, when you're mentioning your
chief technologist at Better Age, I think, you know, we
need to think about it in terms of it's it's usefulness.
So I think it is true. So we talk about
(54:09):
telling from the consumer like well, you're you're a digital
native or you're not, or I think we're getting past
the point where we we just sort of assume older
people aren't good with technology, right because I'm an older
person and I think, you know, so I think the
baby boomers are kind of the breakpoint where it's it
has shifted and it keeps going forward. And I think
(54:32):
we're showing that if number one in terms of older
people using technology, it's like, well, they give them the
reason to use it. It's not like, oh, you don't
have the skills, like, well why would I use it?
What is useful for? And so I think, you know,
thinking about you know, how to really use technology well
in caregiving, I think is an important you know, challenge
(54:56):
for us, an opportunity for us. And also what you're
doing at Better Age is using you know, all this
information in a way that that that provides a platform
that that directs people and say well this is what
it's good for. This is how how we can help
use technology to create solutions and give people options to
(55:18):
direct them, you know, not just intimidate them with their
lack of skill.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Yeah right, right, yeah right. We One thing we like
to say is that we're hyper personalized and empathy first,
and empathy is just meeting people at their level, right, So,
so we try not to be judgmental about where you are.
You know, it's easy to be judgmental, but it's important
(55:47):
not to be about you know, about where people are
and then meet them at that level.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
So one of the things about personalization too is if
we can get to know people better, then we can
adjust how we communicate with them, right, right, So that
is actually one of the emerging I think one of
the emerging benefits. We can see all you want about
in a whole other segment on AI, but one of
(56:14):
the emerging benefits of AI is that you can start
to personalize communication, right, and how how best to communicate
with people, just like you know, the translations, the you know,
varying literacy levels, the context and knowledge around health and wellbeing, right,
so all those aspects are now personalizable.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah, and I think that that so you're I think
and you're lit to try. Know, you use the term
personalized population health, but you know, personalized population well being.
I think by by your getting people to focus and
look at all these different domains that affect their well being,
it's sort of you know, personalized, but it gives them
directions like well this is where you you're okay this
(57:00):
as well, maybe this is can develop here, and I
think in that way it's a much more effective tool.
So you know, yeah, it takes us beyond this sort
of generic like oh, I mean, I mean certain things.
I like getting eight hours of sleep I think is
generally idea, but there are lots of other things that
I think people can work on. So so I'm really
(57:23):
glad we've had this time together. So before we leave,
I just want to make sure people have contactation for
you and Better Age and how people can find out
more about your company and your work.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Yeah. Thanks, Well, people can always reach out to me
Diana Yin and it's Diana doty at better Age dot net.
You can also if you don't want to email me directly.
I totally get it. It's fine. You can also contact
contact at better Age dot net. You can go to
our website, better age dot net.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
What if people find on the website, what sort of
stuff do you have on there?
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah, it's an overview of the awareness, Action and Achievement program.
We talk a little bit about our origin story. There's
a beautiful video on there about you know, the gift
of time, right, and being grateful for that gift of time,
and that is where we start. Sometimes we forget we
can live a long time, right, and we sort of
(58:21):
you know, need to you know, appreciate that what we
call these bonus years, right, you can also find a
little bit more about our team. You can find out
about our partners, you can read about our NIH grant there. Yeah,
so it's a really you can download some product sheets
(58:41):
if you want to know a little bit more about
the product. Unfortunately, the one thing you will not get
there is access to the to the platform, just because,
as I said before, we are only offering it through
partners at this point.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Right, but if people, I mean, I'm just thinking my audience,
it might be some people think, well to you not
to partner with them? Can they contact you? And yeah,
to become a partner?
Speaker 2 (59:03):
That way one under the other thing run, maybe I
can do a little plug is we are looking for
folks who are interested in being in our beta group
because eventually we think it would be important to offer
it to older adults directly. Okay, so we are about
to start a little experiment with what that experience feels like. Uh,
(59:26):
and it's a different it's probably a different experience because
if you're already in an organization, you're with your local
senior center, community center, you know, what have you, You're
already coming in through a trusted organization. Right, but since
we're a new startup. The we're not a household name yet.
I mean that is an ambition, right at some point
to become a household name so that people trust us
(59:48):
and they'll just go right on to better age dot
net or whatever it is and you know, boom, get going.
But we are experimenting with what that looks like if
we're still kind of new to the to the field.
And I want to offer this for folks who are
not associated with a community organization.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Okay, all right, so great, Well, thanks so much Diana
for a terrific, thought provoking conversation. I want to mention
people that if you go to my website, it's Proboil resources.
But if you just dial, if you just go to
forty five forward dot org, you go to my archive
and you can see all of my shows, including one
(01:00:30):
I can't remember the exact day with Ron Kaiser, my
other Ron. It was with better Age and the author
of rejuven.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Aging, right, that's I think, but juven Aging.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
So if you want to listen to his podcast, you
could go on there. It's at that point it's it
was just an audio podcast, but you can still listen
to them and look onto my announcements about wen Jin
premans coming on. I believe it's in August, something like
August twenty, but I'll let you know about that. So again, folks,
(01:01:04):
thanks for spending this time with me and sharing my mission,
which is to make the second half of life even
better than the first. If you have questions for me,
you can contact me at Ron dot Rowell at gmail
dot com. Send me comments, questions, suggestions for future shows.
So again, join me next week what I'll be paroning
(01:01:30):
my next show. But until then, keep moving forward forty
five forward
People really don't like change, and basically they do it.
They change when the pain of not changing exceeds the
fear of change of the unknown.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And people were telling us from the study that they
had taken on new things over fifty percent after four weeks.
People were coming back and telling us that they had
gone to their doctor and their doctor thought that they
love ten years younger than they were.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello, everyone, welcome to forty five Forward. I'm your host,
Ron Roell. Now many philosophers and coaches and longevity experts
talk about the aging process being a journey. Well, of
course it is. It's a journey. But what does that mean?
What does it mean to have this journey? What are
you pack in this journey? Who's your guide? Where are
you going? You know? What do you need to get
(00:59):
to your destination? So in today's episode, I'll be talking
to Diana in who is the CEO and co founder
of Better Age, whose mission is to help older adults
create a personalized guide to live and age. Well, it's
an intriguing challenge. Everyone's journey is different, different options, possibilities, questions, pitfalls,
(01:21):
and Better Age has a special three age program. It's
sort of a health and wellbeing Google map that supports
individuals on their journey to get the most of life.
So now let's meet our guests, Diana in and talk
about Better Age. So, Diana, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, it's so nice to here. We've had a few conversations.
It's always glad to have you on a whole show
all to myself.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, and also thanks for having Ron Kaiser on before.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Us before this. Yes, so before you end, we'll talk
about the fact that this is actually sort of a
three part series focusing on different aspects of Better Age.
So you're you're one of the co founders, so you
have a lot to do with this with the organization
of course. So let's just begin with you a little
(02:13):
bit before I go into Better Age. Uh, I'm always
interested in my guess they always have interesting stories, forty
five forward stories. So it's a little bit about your background,
about how you got into this space and what what
your goal is with Better Age.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, you know, my career is not a straight line,
I think, as as as perhaps it's the case with
many people who are now my age. You know, we
were always toltal when we were growing up you're going
to have like one career, you're going to stay in
it for a very long time, and then you know,
and then you'll retire. And I feel like my career
(02:51):
has been anything but but where I am now is
the culmination of this kind of you know, you know,
zig zaggy path. But the through line has always been
about making an impact and having social impact. So I've
worked in the nonprofit sector, I've worked in the public sector.
I've worked in the private sector. I had many many
(03:14):
years as a results driven management consultant, but even then
I helped co found the public sector practice where we
worked with large government agencies and did a lot of
the low bono pro bono consulting for nonprofits. And I
started my career actually at and it was my most
(03:34):
recent previous job at Onlock, which is the inventor of
the PACE program, and that's the program of all inclusive
care for the elderly. So I learned a lot at Onlock,
which actually informs what we're doing here at Better Age.
And you know, if people don't know about Onlock and
don't know about the program of all inclusive care for
(03:56):
the frail elderly or or the elderly known as PACE.
It is a program to watch. It has been around
for forty plus years. It's actually written into Medicare, is
a permanent option for folks who need skilled, uh you know,
skilled nursing level of care. And it provides essentially no cost,
(04:20):
universal coverage for all of the different aspects of aging
in place. So it's rather amazing and it's an evident,
evidence based program that has been proven to work over
the many decades that it's been around. So, yeah, so
cool something to maybe should have someone from PACE on
(04:40):
your show next.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, I have I have included PACE in my Caregiving
Navigator guide for family caregivers and and it's it's it's
a it's a brief description of the program, but when
you read it's like, this is pretty powerful. You can
sort of sense it. And it's one of the things,
you know, we've got such a disparate system. It's one
(05:04):
of the few efforts that actually tries to put things
together in one bright, holistic way, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So and so now you see the inspiration also of
better age, because one of the benefits of PACE is
that all of those, as you said, disparate parts of
the sort of care fabric are in one place, but
you do have to be eligible for PACE, meaning you
(05:31):
have to be nursing home eligible or skilled nursing eligible,
and not everybody needs that, right, and not everybody is that.
So what we're trying to do at better age is
actually have that same idea that you know, at different
points in your life you need lots of different things, right,
and at some points you may need more or less
(05:52):
or dial up or dial down certain things. And for
your audience in the sort of over forty five, you
know you're not quite an older adult yet, so lucky,
but at the same time, there's some things that you
know that you probably want to watch out for, right,
and perhaps having a map or having some sort of
(06:14):
you know, journey planner is a step in the right
direction to start thinking about the things you might want
to work on. There's a medical doctor in our community
of friends, and he said that there's a thirty sixty
ninety year ole. Right, So when you're younger than thirty,
(06:38):
you can do all sorts of things. Let's not say
abuse your body, but whatever you do to your body,
you're likely to bounce back really quickly. Right, But between
thirty and sixty you really need to start developing the
habits that are about taking care of your body, and
that will set you up for the next thirty years
post sixty. But if between thirty sixty you're still abusing
(07:01):
your body, it's going to be harder for you to
develop those habits that you will need when you're you know,
sixty plus. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So right, yeah, So before we dive into that little
bit more, I tell me a little bit about So
Better Age is a public benefit corporation, so tell us
a little bit about about that's about, you know, so
it's not addictional nonprofit, you know. But so why did
you go that course?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's a great question, you know. At the origination of
my coming to Better Age, and that was only a
little over two years ago, the board was actually, I
don't want to say divided, but a little bit split
on whether we should continue our path as a nonprofit
(07:48):
or can or or really become a for profit company.
And there were actually two organizations that were set up.
One was a five to one C three nonprofit and
the other was an incorporate you know, incorporated entity. We
did a strategic alignment session and it turns out we
actually wanted to do both, right, We wanted to have
(08:10):
the accountability of a for profit company with you know,
certain governance and certain metrics in place, and we wanted
to be financially accountable and sustainable. That was the key,
right to be accountable and sustainable, because we want to
be around for the long term. On the other side,
we wanted to really be about mission and social impact.
(08:33):
And the public benefit corporation is the blend where you
can be margin focused and mission focused. So that's the
path that we've taken.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I worked with a lot
of nonprofits and agencies and people ask me about war
you a nonprofit. My response, you know, little tongue in cheek,
is well, I'm a not much profit but not necessarily
by intent. But but also I just you know, of course,
(09:06):
you know, as a nonprofit, you can people get paid.
You know, it's not you know, volunteer work, you know,
make money, but it is it's directed and you know,
and it's mission driven. But it's also constrained. I mean,
you have to have board, you know. And so I
just working for me in the aging and caregiving area
(09:28):
that I'm I wanted more flexibility to really be able
to maneuver it and part of with people and really
promote things. So it makes a lot of sense for
me that your direction.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So I think that yeah, yeah, you know, I think
the you know, I worked a nonprofit for years and
it was a consultant and nonprofit, so that space is
really familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And I love, love, love the heart anybody who works
in a nonprofit, and I love the mission focus. And
nonprofits are able to attract a lot of people well
because a lot of people do really want their their
meaningful hours of the day to be directed toward meaningful
causes and meaningful pursuits. So nonprofits can attract amazing talent
(10:14):
in that way. But the one thing that is really
tough for nonprofits is the funding, right, So funding is
difficult to get. It sometimes is not always, is not
always guaranteed, and UH philanthropy UH typically does not want
(10:36):
to be the only source of revenue for you know,
mission mission pursuit. So I will say that one of
the one of the avenues that UH small businesses have
is something called the Small Business Innovation Research Grant. That is,
(10:58):
you know, it's a little confect and I really do
think it needs a lot more visibility or maybe even promotion.
But this is what is called America's Seed Grant or
America's Seed Fund, and it is the funding that actually
drives a lot of innovation around the government's sort of
(11:21):
big agenda, big big, big priorities. And one of the
priorities that has actually been very consistent at the national
level is this focus on how we can promote healthy aging.
And so the NIH which is the National Institute's for Health,
is an agency that also has this program. I think
(11:43):
all the agencies have this program, and it's for sure
called the sbi R. So one of the drivers for
us to really kind of be in this public benefit
corporation world is that we are officially a small business
and so we can actually pursue that funding which is
not available to nonprofits. And if you can get it,
(12:08):
it's terrific because it's capital that goes toward research and
also product development for innovative solutions around healthy aging. So
it's like perfect for us. So ron the nice thing
is we did pursue it, and you know, it's a
very low success rate sixteen percent for Phase one and
(12:32):
thirteen percent on average for this Phase one Phase two
fast track, and we were able to be awarded one.
So that that was a really good strategy and a
really good execution on our part, and we're very very
lucky that we were very aligned with the mandate of
(12:52):
that program.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, but extremely competitive. Wow yeah right, yeah, yeah yeah.
So let's talk about it about the founding of Better Age.
So let's talk a little bit first broadly about your goals,
your ambitions, sort of the big.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Ideas, you know. I think the biggest idea is really
simple but hard to execute, which is quality of life
for longer. Right. So, Americans are living longer, I think,
and it will only become longer if you take the
COVID effect out. My kids generation actually when they're teenagers
(13:32):
are going to live to one hundred and twenty right, So, right,
and so we are looking at a lot of longevity.
Oftentimes we think of this really rosy picture of growing
older and spending time with your loved ones and being
healthy and all that. But there's also another picture, which
is that with longer life also comes the introduction of
(13:57):
chronic additions, and the mismanagement or just the lack of
understanding how to manage these chronic conditions can compound to
lead to even more what we call comorbidities, right, the
sort of you know, multiple multiple chronic conditions at the
same time. So what we're trying to do is really
(14:20):
emphasize the potential of growing older, and with that potential
is the quality of life and quality of life around
not just having mobility and physical fitness, but also having
intellectual fitness, having social fitness, having a flourishing life, having
a thriving life, being able to do the things that
(14:42):
you want to do, being able to learn new things
all the time, being in that frame of mind where
getting older doesn't mean getting closer to some end.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
State, right, right, Yeah, I think a lot of longevity
people talk about, you know, closing the gap between lifespan
and health span. Yeah, and so you know, yes, it's
good to have a long life, but you know, what
kind of healthy life do you have? But I like,
you're even more holistic, you know, So it's it's closing
the gap between lifespan and quality of lifespan. Right, It's
(15:16):
not just about health, it's about a lot of things
that you know, maintain a sense of quality of life.
And I know that you're you know that you're guided
through certain values which I like a lot. I mean
I think looking at your website, I mean, so the
importance of respect, integrity, humility, all voices matter. I mean
(15:37):
those sorts of values I think are so to me.
That's what makes the difference, is that, yes, you're your corporation,
but but these are human values that are driving you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Do you mind if I talk a little bit about our.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Team, absolutely, yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well we say that all voices matter. You know, our
team is the embodying that. So our primary founder, his
name is Jim Furman, is a wonderful, wonderful person. He
was the CEO of the National Council in Aging for
twenty five years and before that the CEO of an
economic Equity for Seniors organization. He will not mind that
(16:19):
I say, he just turned seventy four. He is an
amazing individual, huge heart, has a doctor and an education
and is really passionate about interjet Cindy was on before,
but is really passionate about intergenerational programming, right, and that's
an evidence based approach to also also healthy aging. Right.
(16:44):
So his voice matters a ton because he is in
some ways our user base. Right. We also have an
eighty seven year old Chief Immersion officer, but he has
been a positive psychologist, a clinician by training for over
fifty years. So his voice matters and when we look
(17:05):
at if you ever look at our product, his voice
permeates that product because we want to be able to
motivate people, right And as a positive psychologist, there's a
certain way that you kind of can phrase things that
still gives you promise instead of pessimism. Right, So his
(17:27):
voice is really important to us and hopefully to all
of the older adults we serve. We have a chief
technology officer, Steven Engels, who is absolutely amazing. He can
build anything, and he has been in this space for
over twenty years building consumer friendly products for older adults. Right,
(17:49):
So when we talk about software development a product development,
his voice really matters, right, and that you can see
that the UI and the user journey is really a
reflection of his experience. And then Mike Webb is our
chief data officer and really our lead AI engineer. And
you know, actually he and I worked at Unlock together,
(18:10):
and so while you know we've got like a strong
technologist in him, his point of reference is actually older
adults also, right. So, and the integrity and the integrity
of the architecture and the back end is highly focused
(18:32):
on privacy and data security and all of those things
that give us greater comfort and trust in anything we
interact with online these days. Right, So I just wanted
since you mentioned I wanted to talk about this founding team.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, that's great. So this is a good point, and
we're going to just take a quick break, Diana, So folks,
when we come back, we'll be talking much more. Diana
In the CEO and co founder Better Age. So don't
go anywhere.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
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(19:22):
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Speaker 1 (19:44):
Welcome back, folks. We're talking today with Diana In, the
CEO and co founder of Better Age. Before the break,
we were talking about how Better Age assemble their team
and who's on the team, which is a let me
talk about that more later, because it's a really interesting
group actually on the technological side, because I think that's
something that we're in a cusp of something very different
(20:05):
in terms of you know, seniors and technology or just
older people in technology. And I you know, I I
do like to use the word older people. You know,
I think seniors. You know, people say the seniors, and
I often say, well, it's like a senior in high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, and and and a comedian knows listen the
(20:28):
other day, So well that's you know, sort of seniors meetings.
That's like when you're a senior high school, nowhere else
to go, you know, But when you're an older person,
that's you got places to go still, so it's not
like the end. So anyways, So but so let's talk about,
you know, how you've set up your programs, and basically
you talk about trying to put together health and well
(20:49):
being Google map for people, so to speak. So let's
talk about your concepts.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah great. So the first thing I guess I'll say is,
we do believe that people need to interact with the
real world. So we're not building a platform that is
dominated by the digital experience. So we are building a
digital health platform, but we believe strongly in the reinforcement,
(21:19):
the support, the supplementation. What's the supplement of the bricks
and mortar world. There is an entire ecosystem run out
there that hopefully your listeners know about, but if they don't,
I'm going to mention it. There's a whole ecosystem of
incredibly awesome aging services programs out there. Many of them
(21:44):
are funded by local government, by state government, and by
federal government and also philanthropic private dollars. So you may
hear them as community centers or senior centers or I
know they still the word seniors is hard to say
older adult center, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Use it's like fine, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And there are a lot of programs that are also
offered at like your local y m c A or
or like you know, dance programs or other you know,
private gyms. So there's like a lot out there that
people can already be leveraging. We don't want to duplicate
any of those things, just like Google isn't duplicating you know,
(22:29):
the coffee shop that it recommends right like it's it's
it's just recommending and it knows about it. We're going
to go one step further. We partner with these organizations
and right now, all of them are community based organizations
that offer evidence based programs and services. So we like
(22:49):
to work with partners because we like to highlight the
the services they already have. Right So, along the journey,
we don't tell you what your destination is, right, we
hope that you'll choose the destination that's right for you,
like whether it be you know, sleep hygiene or you know,
like whatever it is. And then along the way, there
(23:11):
are actions that you're going to take, and a lot
of these actions can actually be supplemented or reinforced by
the community right outside your door, and so we try
to connect you to that community. So so the idea
of the map really starts with an assessment that within
ten minutes we have asked you a variety of questions.
(23:33):
I won't tell you exactly how many, but within ten
minutes and you know, it averages to be about nine
point four minutes that people you know, kind of finish it.
We personalize guidance for you, right, so we ask all
sorts of things and at the end of it, we
give you an assessment. We give you a sense of
(23:54):
your strengths. We kind of try to place you in
the community of others who've taken the assessment that like
you and present you with some personalized recommendations and interventions,
although we call them journeys that we encourage you to
select right so and then as you select them, then
(24:15):
a process of engagement ensues. But all of it is
really based on the idea that older adults have made
gazillions of choices already in their lives, and we are
not in a position too, you know, make decisions for
you right out of respect, right that you've made gazillions
(24:38):
of decisions for yourself, right, But we show you the why,
the what, the how right and then if you make
a decision to take one of these journeys, then we'll
be with you along the way right and continue to
show you the things that could help you achieve the
goals that you set for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
How do you begin the engagement with people? Do they
contact you through your website or how do they How
does that process work?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
They can, but at the moment, ron since we're still
pretty young in our maturity, we only offer the assessment
and the platform through our partners so but right now,
you're luckily, we're in something like over fifty communities across
the US and it's growing so hopefully. And I wish
I could show you our map, but if you go
(25:26):
to our website, there's an immature listing of I mean
it's immature, and that it's it's it was about it's
about a year old. So we have a lot more
partners on our website than we actually show the you know,
show on our website.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
But that's how they're that's how they find your your
partners if they go to your website, which is betterage
dot net, right, so that's where they can find the
partners too, right.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
But our partners are amazing, and like I said, we
have something like over fifty partners now and they reach
out to their communities and offer the tool to those
in their communities. So I'll just highlight a couple of
places that are just amazing. So we work with Saint
(26:16):
Patrick's Senior Center in Detroit. They used to offer I
don't know if they still do it, so patrisea if
you don't do it anymore, I'm sorry for mentioning it.
But they had a partnership with a local supermarket, and
they would offer you know, coupons to the supermarket for
you know, taking the assessment, right, And so every partner
(26:41):
will do it a little bit differently to you know,
get the word out and incentivize hopefully people to take it.
But we also ask people once they're on the link
why they take this assessment And I want to say
something like fifty I should have this number of my fingertips,
something like fifty percent actually take it because they're curious.
(27:01):
They want to know what what what what we'll say
about their health and well being status, So they find
us and we find them right right.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, So, uh, I guess you you have a three
stage program. Let's talk a bit about that. It's triple eighth.
I guess a where does action and achievement? So let's
let's unpack that a bit.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Okay, So, uh, you know a lot of people really
don't know where they stand in terms of their well being.
They may have a very good sense of where they
stand in terms of their medical issues, right or their
medical profile, but we really believe that you are more
than your medical record. Your medical record and if you
you know, your own metal record, you know is not
(27:49):
always inspiring so so so we really believe that an
individual is made up of more than what their medical
record it says. And we also take heart in a
lot of the evidence that shows that your health outcomes
are actually only twenty percent driven by your clinical settings, right,
(28:12):
and the other eighty percent is driven by all this
non clinical stuff. Right. Some of it is genetic, some
of it is behavior, some of it is you know, environment, right,
but eighty percent is actually not what you're getting from
a clinical setting, right. So the awareness of that other
(28:33):
eighty percent is very important to us. And a lot
of people don't have a sense of you know, how
they're doing vis a v. Their sleep. They may have
a sense of their meaning and purpose, which is actually
very important as we get older to continue to have
meaning and purpose. They may have a sense of their
(28:55):
social supports, but they don't have a snapshot of how
that fits it's in the overall profile of their well being. Right.
So we ask a lot of things about folks, only
one is actually related to their health, their clinical.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Health status, right, well beings.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So many other domains, right, And so bringing that level
of awareness, we call it measuring what matters, right, and
we try to standardize what matters. We have a whole
theory of change around the dimensions of well being. We
(29:35):
start with that as a premise, and that's not an
invention of our own, although I think that we've refined
it quite a lot. But there's a lot of evidence
out there right about what these healthy domains, of these
health and wellbeing domains are, And we really start with
the evidence base, right, and the core assessment we use
(29:55):
is actually was first originated by the Institute for Healthcare
or Improvement the IHI SO and then from there we
prompt people to take action either again online with us
or with a partner that we connect them with. And
then the achievement piece is premised on some level of
(30:21):
motivation theory, right, where if you give people choices, if
you give people small, small sets of choices, you give
people a reason to believe like why they're doing this,
and they buy into that, then they're more aptimate these
choices and take these actions and self prescribed goals, right,
(30:41):
And we break down these actions to very small steps.
And Ron you may know this already, but you should
never tell somebody to lose twenty pounds, you know, like that,
Just people don't just say I mean it's the rare
(31:03):
person who's like, Okay, I'm gonna lose twenty pounds. You
told me to lose twenty pounds lose It's hard to
imagine for me myself like being told that I'm just
going to go do it. But you break it down
into meaningful steps right, right, and those can be achieved
(31:23):
right and then before you know it, you've taken these
small steps every day and they've accumulated into a new routine,
a new habit for your day. And big health outcomes
are big health dividends, well health and wellbeing dividends, right,
So that achievement piece is not about one big epic
(31:45):
statement of change.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
We're going to take another quick break, so folks again,
we're talking much more of Dianie In when we come
back from the break, the CEO and co founder of
Better Age. So come right back.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Do you like what you're here, Well, we've got plenty
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all hosted by Ron. Each week, Ron talks with fascinating guests, experts, advocates,
(32:24):
and everyday folks sharing insights and stories to help you
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(32:49):
out and keep moving forward. Forty five Forward.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Welcome back to forty five Forward once again. This is
your host, Ron Roell talking with Diana Yin, the CEO
and co founder of Better Age. Before the break, we
were talking about their program of awareness, action and achievement
getting people through change, and we were talking about the
importance of incremental change, which I think is something that
(33:25):
is really important and not emphasized enough. I'm glad you
do it because I think that we were in a
society where it was like, oh, you can do this,
and you know, I lost forty pounds in twenty days,
you know, and this sort of thing, so we undervalue,
you know, the importance of incremental change. And I think,
(33:49):
you know, I remember actually years ago when I was
covering business and I was covering business management, and they
were looking at, you know, Japanese style of management, and
there was their theory of continuous improvement and you know,
that was based upon the same sort of thing where
you know before you know, at one point, you know,
(34:09):
Japanese cars were like really inferior to America, right right right,
and then they said, well, let's look at American cars.
And then the companies and Japanese companies will say, well,
let's let's just change this a little bit, let's try this,
let's try this, you know, and then you know, five
or six or seven years later, you'd have a completely
new car based upon all these incremental changes that were
(34:33):
was really dramatically different. So I think that, you know,
it is sort of a you know, a narrative that's
important to go against, you know, our current uh infatuation
with fast change, you know, like overnight change you can
change because it just doesn't happen, doesn't stick. And I
think to your point, it requires building in new habits,
(34:56):
and that takes time and persistence.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I think there's even a I think the book
is called make it Stick. I think it's I think
it's called that. And one of the examples I wish
I could remember the author, but one of the examples
in the book is trying to develop new habits. And
I think one of them was around exercise. And I
(35:23):
think that the the idea is that you already have
some habits, right, So you brush your teeth every night
and every morning, right, you already have a habit around that.
But what are you doing when you brush your teeth?
You're just you're standing there. And so the idea of
trying to make a new habit stick is to, you know,
do some toe raises while you're brushing your teeth. Right
(35:45):
before you know it, you've actually done like three sets
of you know, ten or twelve toe raises. So so
I think those kinds of things are are like kind
of life hacks, right, and little tips, and and that's
that that's kind of the same spirit of the idea
of small steps, right.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, And I think that I think you've talked to
me before about a lot of this is really comes
down to managing change, right, So talk about that because
that's something that's again people talk about a lot about
magic change not so easy, and how to help people
think about that because that's what's happening over the course
of your life.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right, Right. So I mentioned Ron, our chief psychology officer,
and he's the one who really has gotten us thinking
about aging as a process of change. You know, we
maybe are introduced to oh my gosh, we're aging. If
(36:46):
we have a big milestone birthday, right, maybe maybe some
of your listeners are going to hit a milestone birthday, right,
And that feels like, okay, that's I'm being reminded of
my age.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
You know, your first diagnosis, you know, pre diabetes or
you know hypertension, or you know you're you watch this,
or your first colonoscopy or you know all those things
that you know, are we anchored to those things as
as as milestones of aging? And you know, aging is
(37:21):
not really like that, right. It's the one thing. I
was at a conference, you know, the other day, and
as a way to kind of step into what I
was doing because I was actually a conference that had
nothing to do with aging. I had more to do
with technology. And I said, there is one thing that
we're all doing right now at the same time, right,
and that's and and I asked people to guess, and
you know, they're like learning about AI or you know,
(37:43):
it's like, well, we're actually all aging at this very moment.
And of course we all are, and you know, subconsciously
you know that. But to bring that to the conscious level, right,
and really then say like, in order to embrace this journey,
we have to think about it as kind of an
everyday process, right or an you know, conscious process, right.
(38:07):
And any time we bring on change, there's going to
be tension and friction because that is what change is, right.
It is not the same, and so there's always going
to be tension, there's always going to be friction, and
we just have to recognize that when we bring it
to the conscious level, we're we're more able to tackle
(38:28):
it or address it or do things about it. And
it's not as that it doesn't it doesn't feel as
big a task, right I or you know, like versus
denying that I'm aging or you know whatever it is, right, right.
So I was also thinking about innovation as you were
talking on because I thought what you said was really
(38:49):
was really insightful. Changes usually is usually let me think
about this, is it can be often tied to innovation, right,
like a new technology. You know, we all have to
get used to it. That's change, right, a change? Uh uh,
(39:10):
let's just stay with that one, right. So, so we
can also think about aging as a journey of change
and also innovation. We can innovate in our own lives, right,
we can. We can innovate our practices, we can innovate
how we approach things, we can innovate our mindset, we
can innovate all sorts of things around our lives. Right,
(39:33):
And whenever we do that and take on that challenge,
we're also introducing change right conscious consciously introducing change. So anyway,
I could go on and on, but I won't. About change, No.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I think, well, I think it is an important thing,
and I think part of it is that we basically
underplay how difficult is for people, even positive change. So
I think that, you know, one of my little formulas
is that, uh, people really don't like change, and basically
they do it. They change when the pain of not
(40:07):
changing exceeds the fear of change. And and so I
think we get into our habits, and you know there
in some cases to change that habit, you know, the
trigger has to be there has to be some sort
of replacement, like, well, what is what takes the place
(40:30):
of this habit? That is, you know, an improvement or
that we're you know in some way you know, motivates
me enough to make this change. And you know, because
people get stuck in patterns, even if they're bad ones,
because they're comfortable and they know them, and you know
it's bad like bad relationships are. Okay, well, at least
I know what it is. But I think that you know, uh,
(40:54):
and I think that innovation sometimes comes, you know, through
that your ear to place where you're stuck. And so
I say, okay, well, this is not going anywhere. I
guess it's sort of a notion that some therapist is
talking about. It is quite all right here you are.
It's radical acceptance, not going to change. So what do
I do now? I stay here? But you know, what
(41:14):
is the innovation that's going to take me to think
about it in another way? Yeah? And I think that that.
But you know, living longer and thinking about your wellbeing
I think encourages that kind of thinking. So you know,
it's it's it's a broader kind of thinking that I think.
You know, places like better age, you know, are important
(41:35):
catalysts for that, you know, that thought process.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I was so impressed with this,
you know, young college guy that I that I that
I met at a friend's dinner. You know, I have
a huge problem with sleep. I'm just going to say,
like you know, when you when you when you you know,
(41:59):
when you were talking, I was like, well, I have
a bad habit and that's I don't have good sleep hygen.
That's just like a bad habit. But I work really hard.
So just but I met this this college kid. I
was so impressed with him because he went to bed
and he's in college, right, so college you conjure up
(42:20):
you know, late night partying and you know whatever, but
he went to bed most nights by nine or ten o'clock.
Now he is an incredibly accomplished kid, young, young, young person, right,
but he went to bed every night at like nine
or ten o'clock. I'm like, how do you manage to
do that? And why do you mean? He's like, you know,
I just in high school realized that I feel better,
(42:44):
I'm more awake, I'm more alert. I'm just a happier
person when I get like eight hours of sleep, and
I have to do that starting at nine because I
get up early. Right, So right, and it just cemented
something that you know, Ron said to our team, which
is so much of this change has to do with
(43:08):
recognizing the benefits, right, So being conscious about writing down
how you feel when you do something that you want
to be doing right, and that kid just did it naturally, right.
He just naturally said, I just feel better when I
(43:30):
get eight hours of sleep and I go to sleep
early enough that I can get eight hours of sleep,
I just feel better, I'm and he just remembers that.
And through how high school he just developed that habit
and now in college it's just second nature, right, But
it took some time anyway. So that's sort of what
we're trying to do with better age with the folks
that we work with.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So we.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Did just finish of phase one of this NIH study.
And yeah, we we can't talk about all the details
until we actually published the study. That's part of the
NAH rules, but we want to definitely kind of highlight
a couple of things. Kind to preview the study. We
(44:13):
asked people to do the assessment. You know, they received
the personalized report. We asked the some probing questions, and
then we personalized their guidance and their actions, and then
we followed them for four weeks and we offered them
weekly check ins. Most people actually chose check ins not
(44:35):
by not in person, but by email our text. After
four weeks, people were telling us from the study that
they had taken on new things over fifty percent over
sixty When Jim comes on, he'll tell the exact numbers,
but over sixty percent actually took at least one and
(44:58):
many two actions based on the recommendations. After four weeks,
people were coming back and telling us that they had
gone to their doctor and their doctor thought that they
love ten years younger than they were. Wow, I mean,
it's incredible. Right, this is not anything that we have
(45:19):
actively done. We gave them recommendations that were personalized to them.
They chose to do them because those recommendations resonated with them.
They felt like we got to know them well enough
to make these personalized recommendations. And then we did weekly
chickens with them, right, and that just light light, light
(45:40):
LTE accountability was enough for them to follow through on
a lot of the actions and take on new ones. Right.
So it's incredible when people choose to consciously do things
on their own, little bit of light accountability, not a
heavy touch right, really can make a big difference in
(46:01):
their lives. And that and it doesn't take a long time,
but over time taking on new actions, achieving them continuing
on this process right really can pay off, like you
know in big health outcomes. So now I say that
that's not part of the study, right, that's a continuous
(46:21):
process for us to keep studying the efficacy of what
we're doing right.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So I know that Jim Ferman, your other co founder,
will be talking about this more in depth and when
he comes on in a couple of weeks. But just
give us this how many people were involved in this study.
Just give us a brief preview of what Jim's going
to talk about.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, so many more people were involved in focus groups
and in depth interview, in depth interviews and et cetera.
So a lot of the that level of co design
led to a prototype, and that prototype was then piloted
with over forty five older adults drawn from Half of
(47:04):
them were drawn from the caregiver population, and half of
them were non caregivers. And there is a significant difference
in how caregivers respond to non caregivers. So that's something
that we want to take a much closer look at.
And I will say this, We are really interested in
(47:28):
the caregiver population because it is growing. It is the
backbone of the healthcare system. And as I think that
these are unsung hero os that go through a lot,
So we would like to do as much as we
(47:49):
can to support caregivers.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, well that's certainly something that I applaud having produced
this family caregiving guy with the Caregiving Navigator and then
and you know, so it's focused mostly on you know,
caring for older loved ones, you know, family caregivers, you know,
the people who do it and are not paid to
do it, although that is part of it, you know,
(48:13):
as you guys know, you know, a care team, caregiving
team with professionals. But I think this is something that
you know, I feel like it's still a nascent movement.
You know, we're you know, so years ago we thought
about you know, first we were parents and then we
were caregiving parents, and then realizing that there was there
(48:35):
were child care needs and what happens when culture changes
and there are more women at work and how do
families change? And I think we're now developing now we're
looking at elder care. But I think we're making connections
just as a caregiving population, the spectrum because obviously as
we live longer too, it's the spectrum of caregiving widens
(48:59):
as well from childcare too, and sometimes you know, even
though your children are grown, you know, you're still a parent,
and they're caregiving issues. And then and so you know,
people talk about the sandwich generations of you know, caring
for younger and older, and now I talk about the
club Sandwich generation because older people can be taken care
(49:20):
of yet older people, you know, and I think that's
happening to your point earlier about are your children? Are
children going to live to one hundred and twenty. It's like, wow,
that's going to be a dramatic change. So so I
want to talk just to do a quick wrap up,
and we'll take a quick break and then we'll do
a wrap up and I'll give people contact information, so
(49:41):
forth for you. So, folks, we have one more quick
segment with so don't go anywhere, We'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (49:49):
Caring for a loved one can feel overwhelming. That's why
we created caregiving nav dot com, your personal guide through
the complex world of care. It's a free, interactive website
built around the Caregiving Navigator Book, with tools designed to
make your journey easier. Whether you're planning ahead, managing care
(50:12):
right now, or navigating a crisis, you'll find step by
step advice trusted resources, and over a dozen downloadable checklists.
From legal planning to home safety, from medical decisions to
emotional support. It's all here, all in one place. Just
(50:33):
visit caregiving nav dot com because you're not alone on
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click away.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Hey, folks, welcome back to forty five Forward. I'm your host,
Ron Robell, once again talking with Diane in the CEO
and co founder of Better Age. So we were talking
about a lot of things before the break. I wanted
to now just you know, I have Diana talked a
little bit about it sort of going forward. I mean,
we have the pilot studies that you're rolling out and
(51:13):
are your co founder Jim Firman, will be talking about
that more in a couple of weeks. But I want
to catch some of your thoughts about, you know what,
so what's next for you? What do you think where
the sense of not only for better aid but more,
you know broadly, what are our challenges? And we talked
(51:34):
about caregiving. I think you're I think that is a
big challenge and I think we have to think about
it in a much broader way.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
I mean, we could do a whole segment on caregiving.
I mean, you know, I think ron in terms of
like the biggest challenges, I think that we are going
to face an interesting duality. So on the one hand,
we have people who are going to be facing information overload. Right,
(52:06):
there's just so much information. I mean, if you know,
if it's like you know, you you cough a little
bit or whatever, you can absolutely find sixteen different diagnoses
online for why you might be coughing. Right. And now
with the pace of content generation, you know, boosted by AI,
(52:29):
it's even more information that's out there, and you know,
some to sift through, right, because are there is misinformation
too about certain things. On the other side, you're an
information gap because during the pandemic, so almost virtually all
health education moved online, right, because there's no other way
to deliver that health education. But there's but there's there's
(52:52):
a health information gap, right. Not everybody is digitally familiar,
you know. Least internet access is improving, so that part
of the digital divide I think is getting better. But
the digital familiarity in the digital literacy, along with health
literacy is still a big, big issue. And so you've
got folks who are going to be facing information overload,
(53:15):
and then you've got folks who still have information gaps,
and how do we actually address both populations equally right?
How do we address both populations with what they need
right and they don't need the same thing. So I
think that's a big that's a big challenge, and it's
one I feel like we are wanting to take on,
(53:36):
you know, by delivering information that people need at the
right time, with the right sensitivity around their context and
directing them to sort of the you know, connecting them
to the to the right resources.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, I think that's an important point. I'm glad you
brought that up. And I think that for me, the technology,
you know, at the very beginning, when you're mentioning your
chief technologist at Better Age, I think, you know, we
need to think about it in terms of it's it's usefulness.
So I think it is true. So we talk about
(54:09):
telling from the consumer like well, you're you're a digital
native or you're not, or I think we're getting past
the point where we we just sort of assume older
people aren't good with technology, right because I'm an older
person and I think, you know, so I think the
baby boomers are kind of the breakpoint where it's it
has shifted and it keeps going forward. And I think
(54:32):
we're showing that if number one in terms of older
people using technology, it's like, well, they give them the
reason to use it. It's not like, oh, you don't
have the skills, like, well why would I use it?
What is useful for? And so I think, you know,
thinking about you know, how to really use technology well
in caregiving, I think is an important you know, challenge
(54:56):
for us, an opportunity for us. And also what you're
doing at Better Age is using you know, all this
information in a way that that that provides a platform
that that directs people and say well this is what
it's good for. This is how how we can help
use technology to create solutions and give people options to
(55:18):
direct them, you know, not just intimidate them with their
lack of skill.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Yeah right, right, yeah right. We One thing we like
to say is that we're hyper personalized and empathy first,
and empathy is just meeting people at their level, right, So,
so we try not to be judgmental about where you are.
You know, it's easy to be judgmental, but it's important
(55:47):
not to be about you know, about where people are
and then meet them at that level.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
So one of the things about personalization too is if
we can get to know people better, then we can
adjust how we communicate with them, right, right, So that
is actually one of the emerging I think one of
the emerging benefits. We can see all you want about
in a whole other segment on AI, but one of
(56:14):
the emerging benefits of AI is that you can start
to personalize communication, right, and how how best to communicate
with people, just like you know, the translations, the you know,
varying literacy levels, the context and knowledge around health and wellbeing, right,
so all those aspects are now personalizable.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah, and I think that that so you're I think
and you're lit to try. Know, you use the term
personalized population health, but you know, personalized population well being.
I think by by your getting people to focus and
look at all these different domains that affect their well being,
it's sort of you know, personalized, but it gives them
directions like well this is where you you're okay this
(57:00):
as well, maybe this is can develop here, and I
think in that way it's a much more effective tool.
So you know, yeah, it takes us beyond this sort
of generic like oh, I mean, I mean certain things.
I like getting eight hours of sleep I think is
generally idea, but there are lots of other things that
I think people can work on. So so I'm really
(57:23):
glad we've had this time together. So before we leave,
I just want to make sure people have contactation for
you and Better Age and how people can find out
more about your company and your work.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Yeah. Thanks, Well, people can always reach out to me
Diana Yin and it's Diana doty at better Age dot net.
You can also if you don't want to email me directly.
I totally get it. It's fine. You can also contact
contact at better Age dot net. You can go to
our website, better age dot net.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
What if people find on the website, what sort of
stuff do you have on there?
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah, it's an overview of the awareness, Action and Achievement program.
We talk a little bit about our origin story. There's
a beautiful video on there about you know, the gift
of time, right, and being grateful for that gift of time,
and that is where we start. Sometimes we forget we
can live a long time, right, and we sort of
(58:21):
you know, need to you know, appreciate that what we
call these bonus years, right, you can also find a
little bit more about our team. You can find out
about our partners, you can read about our NIH grant there. Yeah,
so it's a really you can download some product sheets
(58:41):
if you want to know a little bit more about
the product. Unfortunately, the one thing you will not get
there is access to the to the platform, just because,
as I said before, we are only offering it through
partners at this point.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Right, but if people, I mean, I'm just thinking my audience,
it might be some people think, well to you not
to partner with them? Can they contact you? And yeah,
to become a partner?
Speaker 2 (59:03):
That way one under the other thing run, maybe I
can do a little plug is we are looking for
folks who are interested in being in our beta group
because eventually we think it would be important to offer
it to older adults directly. Okay, so we are about
to start a little experiment with what that experience feels like. Uh,
(59:26):
and it's a different it's probably a different experience because
if you're already in an organization, you're with your local
senior center, community center, you know, what have you, You're
already coming in through a trusted organization. Right, but since
we're a new startup. The we're not a household name yet.
I mean that is an ambition, right at some point
to become a household name so that people trust us
(59:48):
and they'll just go right on to better age dot
net or whatever it is and you know, boom, get going.
But we are experimenting with what that looks like if
we're still kind of new to the to the field.
And I want to offer this for folks who are
not associated with a community organization.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Okay, all right, so great, Well, thanks so much Diana
for a terrific, thought provoking conversation. I want to mention
people that if you go to my website, it's Proboil resources.
But if you just dial, if you just go to
forty five forward dot org, you go to my archive
and you can see all of my shows, including one
(01:00:30):
I can't remember the exact day with Ron Kaiser, my
other Ron. It was with better Age and the author
of rejuven.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Aging, right, that's I think, but juven Aging.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
So if you want to listen to his podcast, you
could go on there. It's at that point it's it
was just an audio podcast, but you can still listen
to them and look onto my announcements about wen Jin
premans coming on. I believe it's in August, something like
August twenty, but I'll let you know about that. So again, folks,
(01:01:04):
thanks for spending this time with me and sharing my mission,
which is to make the second half of life even
better than the first. If you have questions for me,
you can contact me at Ron dot Rowell at gmail
dot com. Send me comments, questions, suggestions for future shows.
So again, join me next week what I'll be paroning
(01:01:30):
my next show. But until then, keep moving forward forty
five forward
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