October 10, 2025 • 55 mins
Can love, companionship, and intimacy really begin again later in life?
This inspiring conversation proves the answer is YES. After losing their longtime spouses, two older adults found unexpected connection, courage, purpose, and joy in a new relationship. In this episode, we explore:
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
This inspiring conversation proves the answer is YES. After losing their longtime spouses, two older adults found unexpected connection, courage, purpose, and joy in a new relationship. In this episode, we explore:
- Rebuilding life after loss
- Overcoming guilt and fear when starting over
- Rediscovering intimacy and connection in later years
- Communication, mutual respect, and shared growth
- Aging with confidence, independence, and joy
- Challenging ageist assumptions about love and companionship
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a wonderful feeling to know that.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Your heart could be entwined with someone else, and it
takes you to a higher power, it takes you to
a different place, and so there again, it's the only
thing I would say is if you really have to
make sure that the person that you're with is not
out for scamming.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's why we put everything on the line.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This is how much money I have, this is what
I do, this is how I have it, this is
how I spend He did the same thing. And when
a person is not afraid to present themselves fully, they
will also present themselves fully in a sexual situation.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hello everyone, this is Ron Roell. I'm your host of
forty five Forward, where my missions to help you make
the second half of life even better than the first.
What do you do when you've been married for many
years and find yourself alone after losing your partner? Can
you find love again? Companionship, intimacy, a new sense of purpose?
(01:16):
Today we'll meet Diane Olvera and Lee Sweeney who did
lose their longtime spouses and unexpectedly found themselves starting over
in the same retirement community in Colorado. Today, we're going
to talk about a number of interesting things. First of all,
how do you break through the initial fears and concerns
of you know, meeting somebody new, getting to know them,
working out things from very different backgrounds, and sustaining new
(01:40):
relationship The lessons learned a new way of understanding relationships,
respect and growing as we age. It's a great story.
So now let's meet our guests, Diane Alvera and Lee Sweeney.
Diana and Lee, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you, thank.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You, pleasure to have you guys. So let's start from
you know, from the beginning of your meeting, sort of
that that initial story of what were some of the
things you thought about, your initial impressions. Let's talk you
by your own encounters and remember your feelings of apprehension
and also a little bit of hope and anticipation. So Diane,
(02:17):
I'll start with you, and then Lee would jump in.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, actually we met each other through a mutual friend.
We were at an octoberfest. Reintroduced and we spoke briefly,
and then we saw each other again. We had it
was twenty twenty, so that's when uh COVID was So
we had a we had grief meetings that were available
(02:44):
available for us.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Interesting, okay, and uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So Lee was sitting across from me, and I think
he mentioned a few things about his past which was
very similar to mine.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And after the meeting we started to chat.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Right right, A return to yours is more complex than
nine ones, huh.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So, but there there are some initial, you know, issues
that you deal with. I sort of said, well, there
are the usual things in relationships, sort of like you know, money, sex,
and values. So so talk about you know, some of
those initial concerns in these issues. And uh, I know
that again, Diane, you you mentioned that. I think it's
a sort of normal. Probably I'm not sure for women
(03:33):
more than men, but I think there is a feeling of,
you know, disloyalty to your farmer's spouse. So I talk
t talk about that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes, uh we I are are both of our our
our partners died within two months of each other. Mm
and then it must have been about four months afterward
we really started to meet each other talk and have
go to go to each other's apartments and lunch or dinner,
(04:05):
and then we started to feel more engaged with each other.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And I felt really guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
The phrase that kept going to make me feel good
was till death do us part, and death had happened.
But I finally I talked to my counselor. I had
been seeing a counselor throughout the time of my husband's sickness,
and I said to her, I said, I just feel
so guilty. This seems so right, but so wrong. And
(04:36):
she said, you know, people that have had good marriages
or good relationships prior to the demise will usually look
for another relationship. Those who have not will shy away
from it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And Leeah know that you you know, you were involved
in a lot of caregiving for your former spouse, and
so I'm sure there was a lot of emotional connect
that you had to sort of work through and sort
of transference or you know, how do you get, you know,
work into a new relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
My wife fell and broke her hip, and she was
over eighty years old, and the statistics show they don't
last very long after that. So basically fell July fourth
and died in seventeenth of August.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
And then meeting Diane, we had so many things in
common to talk about.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
It wasn't just because our spouses had passed on. With
the kind of work we were doing. You know, it
was classified work. You know, hers was on the ground
and MI was satellites up in the air. But even
though those are very diverse areas, we just had a
lot in common, eating and up and back out of
bed at the same times, and religion.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
All those topics we did touch.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
On and we worked on all the details very smooth.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, that's which is something I think that people should
think about. You know, when you're young, your working at
your jobs and you meet each other, you meet friends.
But as you get older, you're isolated. Probably spent maybe
(06:12):
the last twenty to thirty or forty years isolated with you,
your husband, your family, and your very close community, and
then all of a sudden, you're in this larger community alone.
You Usually a lot of the people have moved from
where they've lived for thirty forty years into this community because.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Their children live in the area.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So it's pretty scary to first of all, even go
out to do anything with the people that you live with.
And then, to make things worse, you meet somebody and
they know that his wife died and your husband died,
and they start to you know, talk, and you know,
(06:59):
you used to start to feel like, okay, well we're
the outsiders, and do.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
They like it? Do they not like it?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And one couple who actually got together after we did,
she was ninety and he was in his eighties, and
her friends literally.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
They were very angry with her.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Really yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, so she really she said that's too bad, and
she just went on and now they.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Live together and they're very happy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So I think if we could give any advice to
older people and older couples, don't worry about what other
people say, because it's now people are seeing us and
they want to emulate.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
A relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I think that you know, there is this unfortunate stereotype
or just as something. It's like, okay, you get to
a certain age, Well you had your relationship, You had
your relationship, and then you know that's it. You know,
you don't grow anymore, you don't change. And I think
too actually probably I don't know what your experience has
been with your children, but I'm sure there's some things
(08:17):
to work out with your family too, And like, really
that mom or dad is going to have another partner,
how dare you?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Oh? And and even and intimacy.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You know, luckily I have a very open relationship with
with our with my youngest son, and so he'll say, yeah,
and I suppose you're having sex too, And I said, uh,
and then he said yeah every day. So we uh,
(08:51):
we just we you know, we just said, oh, well,
you know, it's it's our life, it's our happiness, and
we know how sensitive life and death is. And with
your son, it was funny because they live away from
the area.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And one of his sons actually came.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And visited us and they stayed the whole afternoon and
we had you know, we ate together and we had
a wonderful time, and then they came back again this year.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, there's a lot to work out, you know, in
the relationships earlier and later in a continuing way. So
you know, some of the things that we've talked about
in our previous conversations are you know, as you mentioned earlier,
there are certain assumptions. If you went with someone for
a long time and then you're in no relationship, you
sort of forget about how many things you kind of
(09:50):
worked through and you need to rethink, so some of
them might go ahead.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Ly excuse me, I said, one of the things that
comes up is I was living in a patio home separate.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
She was in an an apartment. It's don't rent, and
so one of the things.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
We discussed, why don't we move in together, But we
didn't want to do it on day one. So I
actually told the management here, I said, I want to
give up my patio home for a one bedroom apartment
down the hall from Diane, and they said okay, so
they we wrote my contract. So I signed out for
a year and I don't think we made it through
the full year before I signed up with Diane for
a contract one year contract in the two different places.
(10:26):
So that was very smooth. But you know, when you
come into it, you say, are you going to do that?
And the answer was never crossed your mind. But you know,
sharing expenses was like I had a car, she had
a car. I sold mine, it was over and so
we share expenses there too.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, but that's something that you've talked about that you know,
some things you need to really put out in the open,
and one of them is money. A lot of couples
break up over money, so talking about you know, again,
what are your assumptions And okay, maybe I assumed that
we'd split this or did that, but something you have
to work out right, you got to sit down and say.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You really have to have an open conversation about everything.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And we don't plan to have children, and why do
we need to be married.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Because we have all of the finances and all of
our paperwork done for our family.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Our children are my children, and he has.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
All the paperwork done for his family and his children.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So there's no reason.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
To mix in our minds finances because it just adds
another layer of a possibility of issues.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Well, she told you I was as special as I
work on spreadsheet. So I was ex prepared in California
years ago, bonded all anyway, So.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
What I did.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I have a spreadsheet and at all the expenses of reseachs,
they go into the spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
At the end of each months, we balance it out.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
If one spent more than the other, that one, you know,
gives a check to the other one and we spliff
the rent down the middle, the car of fences down
the middle, and you know, food and some of the
things we don't nickel and diamond, but you know, just
like to just keeping track.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It stays in balance.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Clarity is important and specificity. Yeah, and I think that
so in that regard, in a different kind of area.
But again clarity in terms of I know we've talked
before Diane about you know again, one of the concerns
I think from a woman's perspective is listen, I'm not
going to come in here and be your worker, be
(12:31):
in the kitchen here. So let's make let's make that clear.
So let's talk about the roles in terms of, you know,
household chores and somethings like that.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Let me intercept one thing first.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Okay, I was not into yoga, and Diane is in
a full gore you So it turns out she's been
doing for yours and I joined her well.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Not quite as flexible as she is, but she can
adjest to it.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Now that I like much better now and I did
five years ago when we first met.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
It's just something we do together.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
But there again, that's a man's ability to be open minded.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Now, you work with a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Run how many men would acquiesce to even the idea
of changing their diet or changing doing yoga.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I mean, that's you know, they would just immediately just
give it up.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And no, he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And just like in the house, I My husband was Latino,
and so I was the subservient wife.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I enjoyed helping him and giving to him.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well then you get tired, and so at the end
of his life, the last thing I wanted to do
was to be someone's subservient wife, a friend.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Or lover or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But when I invited him to make a bananas one day,
he didn't leave the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
He started washing dishes.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
He was actually my my chef, my my yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, I never even heard of Argentine in but that
was what sees me.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
I had the rolling pan and had to, you knowdo
the packages for the dough and figure out how to
have a stick to the roller and make a big mess,
you know that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think what really impressed me was I saw it
as a sign of maturity.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't mean the maturity.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
That a person can look beyond self and look at
the whole picture what needs to be done and just
do it. He actually taught me. I mean, because I
didn't keep tabs anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was there's a glass in the saint put it away,
and it really helped me to calm down. I was
kind of aggressive at the beginning of our relationship because
I had to be you know, when you're working for
forty years twenty to forty is a caregiver. You know,
(15:18):
you have to monitor and you have to make sure
that everyone that is on his case is doing their job.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So when he came in, I was still like that.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
I had fun with her, like we're making in finals
and you have to cut the olives. She says, they
always are in the refrigerator. Well, I don't know about you.
I can't find things in her refrigerator, skinny tall bottle
behind two other things.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And she says, how come you can't move things and
find it? I said, I mean there's multiple shows. What
don't I to do? I just wanted you to say,
where are the allise?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It worked up fine, but it wasn't grudge holding.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, and you have to let go of things and
try new things and that, you know, so you have
to maintain a sense of curiosity and adaptability. You know.
I think it's hard, you know, I think, well, people
can if they go to my forty five forward dot
org website, you know, they can see I have the
(16:17):
episode up there, but I have your backgrounds up there,
so they can see quite a bit about you're both
of your very distinguished backgrounds, and he went through a
number of things. But you know, as you mentioned brieflyly,
you know you were with them the spy in the
sky and I was a spy in the ground. I mean,
you had different, very different kinds of careers. But but
you have to find that common ground and also that
(16:40):
common compromising sometimes and so you have to continue adapting
in life and say, well, I gotta I've got to
think about you know how you know, I think I
think one thing, and I don't think it's just about
older people, right, but I think a lot of people
quite young get very stuck in their patterns and don't
(17:02):
want to change, and you have to have some adaptability.
You got to have that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, I think it all goes down to maturity. But
apart from maturity, it is the ability to know yourself.
If you're secure in yourself, you are then secure in
your environment or in any environment. And I think our
(17:25):
backgrounds caused us to have to be able to roll
with the punches.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
But in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I think it's even more important to just feel like
I'm comfortable in me. That's what I find is very
difficult with the women that I speak with, because they
forgot who me was. They were the wife, and so
their biggest fear is how do I even carry on
(17:56):
a conversation when my husband had all the things to
add and the men would do the same thing. They
were afraid to come, like to the men's group because
their wives did all the talking. One man even said
that to me, Yeah, he said, well, my wife does
all the talking. Why do I need to go to
a men's group because I don't have her to tell
(18:18):
where all the stories?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
So you didn't You're really not aware until you're in
a new environment of all the roles you had and
didn't have. And I think that that's that is a
problem when people then become suddenly independent or suddenly solo again.
It's like not realizing how many things that were partitioned
and one did one thing. And I think I think
(18:41):
that happens quite a bit actually, unfortunately in the area
of money, when when you know the male spouse, you know,
passes and then the woman realizes, God, I don't know
anything about the money in this family or the estate,
you know, So it's important to share these kinds of things,
and you know, going forward. So you guys are now
(19:02):
you're you're you're learning about this and sharing. I think
that's really important.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Another thing we're sharing this is she accuses me of
reading her mind like something done, and I do.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It just as she's about to ask me to do it.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I said, I'm not connecting to your mind directly that
I'm aware of. But again, it's awareness, like maybe you
just anticipate what comes next, and I wish you didn't
used to have anybody doing.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
That with it.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Actually we both said that we've never met anybody so
in sync intellectually as well as just cognitive on that
cognitive layer that they just kind of know, you know
what the other person needs are at the moment. And
I think, if I can tell you what it is
(19:52):
research my brain research, it's awareness. When you open your awareness,
you then open yourselves to opening all of your senses.
And when your senses are open, you feel life more,
you see life more, and you become attached to the
(20:14):
real world around you, and that opens up so many doors.
One lady, when we gave our talk the other day
at where we live, she came up to us about
a week later and she said, I have to tell
you when you said open your awareness. She said, I
went home and I started to realize I say things
(20:38):
without thinking. And her husband just had this biggest smile
because it was like, I know, she said, now I
realize that I have to think before I say something
to someone because I might say the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So we're going to talk a lot more about that
and your also your book plan The Power of Connection.
Before we get to the I want to talk about
something that is, uh is sensitive to talk about. You know,
you guys are going through it, which is you know,
especially as you get older. We touched on earlier, but
the whole issue of intimacy and you know, how do
(21:18):
you create a new intimacy and it's risky and uh
so I wanted I wanted to actually mention something that
you guys told have told me before, which is like
put into sort of you know, quotations. The kitchen hug.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, well she had at the end of the kitchen,
you know, to learn how to make infanatus. And I'm
not sure it was on the first day I was
with her in the kitchen that I hugged her. But
we were doing things routinely, whether it's loading and unloading
the dishwasher or just cooking and preparing meals, and it
just crossed my mind. She looked like she needed to hug,
not just a real.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Good hug, real good hug back. And I said, see,
that was like a test you could get out of here.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I don't want that. But he said, she hugged me back.
So it was a straight forward, but it was spontaneous.
I didn't plan ahead. I say, oh, now's the day
for a hug. It just happened in the kitchen where
we spend time together.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But you know that releases oxytocin, and it's also it
proves your health, right, so it increases the ability to
you know, cure viruses or whatever you want to think about.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Right, So the.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Hug was fine.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
The first kiss was not so fine. When I went
to his house, he invited me up, and I don't
know if it was before I think it was before
or after we yea.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I think it was before he said may I kiss you?
And I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I hadn't had that situation in forty years, so I
puckered up. And afterwards he told me he said it
was like kissing a walnut.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Well, no, but again, see I didn't anticipate anything about
good or bad. I guess I would like to do
it because I was getting along with her, and I
think it was the second time I invited her to
the petty home where I lived, And so when she
was taking her coat off and hung it up, I
just looked it right in the eye and say, may
I kiss you? So that's where the first kiss was.
(23:20):
No hugs or anything that we went about eating lunch
together or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
It was the reason she came over.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But then you talk about intimacy. You know, from a woman's.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Perspective, our bodies are not the same as it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Was when we were forty years earlier, and so one
of your fears is how do you just robe yeah
and feel comfortable knowing that you're sagging and you're not
that beautiful body that you were forty years.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Before, And so that was difficult.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And then and for men, and for men, will he
be able to perform? And what can you do to
enhance performance at our age so that you're able to perform.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
It wasn't like I was diagnosis and he malfunctioning. It
was just she saw an ad on the paper about
acoustic wave therapy, which I'd never heard of, and it
was a local place had just opened and said we
have a special going on, and so we went in together,
you know, and I got examined and said, yeah, you're
a candidate if you'd like to do this.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So I signed up, and I think it was six
weeks in a row.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
I went in for an acoustic wave therapy treatment sound
waves and I didn't say it was like day and night,
but it improves our performance and the thing. I signed
up and they said back once a year for a
tune up if you like. So the next two years
I went in for a tune up, and then the
next time I tried to go in, they didn't answer
the phone.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
And when I looked up their nearest office in Salt
Lake City, then.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I'm not right. Yeah, but I think that that openness
and that you know, willingness to recognize it's not the same,
but you can do a lot of things to improve
it and make it great. I mean, I think that
I think what you're saying, Diane is I do think
that there's sort of more unfortunately societal pressure on women
(25:25):
somehow to be you know, to maintained physical appearance, but
mens sag too, and I think that, you know, you
do well, I'll speak for myselfly, you know, I'm like,
who's that in the mirror? Wait a minute, that's that's me? Okay, okay,
(25:47):
you know. Or you look at somebody and say, well,
they look kind of old, you know, and you're like,
wait a minute, I'm older than they are, So how
do I look?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
So I think that, but just being comfortable, it's okay,
it's it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Sometimes it's fine something it's like, well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The thing, too, is what do you do when your relationship,
your prior relationship physically sexually was in demise.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
You know, so.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You you got out of practice.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Mm hmm, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And so there again we.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Have to re find open conversations really do help.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, let's talk more about that. That's a good segue
to the next section about just about the importance of communication.
Now you have a book. You've had a number of books,
but you're I think most recent one is dealing with
the power of communication. So let's talk a little bit
more about that, about just the ability, you know, to communicate.
I think you told me once that you and leagues
(27:00):
and we're a good team. We look at each other
and talk, you know. But I think that ability to
really be open about a lot of things personal issues,
health problems, financial issues, and to look for ways of
finding you know, common ground or at least common understandings
(27:23):
to resolve things, because there could inevitably be differences, So
how do you resolve them? Understanding each other's position and
basically being able to both be together and maintain you know, independence.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, we got word power.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Our words have power, and it actually sits the domain
for where you are. So when you are always talking,
like telling him what to do, telling her what to.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Do, you're dominating.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So what when you have word power, you open up
conversations and you use your awareness to find positive things
like hey, thank you so much for helping me in
the kitchen. I didn't expect that that was simply that
was very nothing, but yet it was because it made
(28:26):
him feel felt. And then using your eyes, how often
do you walk into the house and say hi, honey,
and don't look at them and just walk into the bedroom,
change your club whatever. They don't feel felt, So we
really make an effort at just looking at each other
(28:47):
and making him feel like he is in his conversation
is important to me and so that opens up the
door for communication.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Sometimes, you know, men are not as quite as practice
I think, I mean, you know, we I do think,
you know, for better or worse. In the workplace, you
know there there are power dynamics, you know, and so
(29:20):
you don't really are you know, work at that level
of you know, of collaboration, basically working out the inside.
Well are you higher or am I higher?
Speaker 5 (29:31):
So?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
But then one of the things you mentioned to me
but previously was that you joined a men's group. So
tell me a little bit about that. What what who
you experienced and what did you get out of that
or maybe still getting out of it.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
The celly where we are currently has forty four men
in it, and what they want is more than what
we have now, which is like it doesn't that come?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
But E thinks, like what did they talk about?
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Well, it could be current events like politics, religion, things
like that, but usually it's just something it was funny
they did when they were younger, and I heard some
stories I just couldn't believe what they would do, Like
there were one man lived in Massachusetts, the other in Denver,
and what do they do They skips school, take a train,
you go see a baseball game in another city.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I said, I never even thought of doing that.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
But it wasn't. They didn't tell it to be funny.
That's just the things they were doing. And that was
kind of entertaining where everybody say, gosh, I wish I
did that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I think they also everyone's when you'll come back and
he'll say, we did talk about some personal things or
how people feel, especially when the guys are new.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, I mean I know that.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
You know, a lot of therapists talk about Okay, well
how do you feel about this? But I think there
is something to that. You know, you can intellectualize it,
but then it sort of just stopped and say, well,
how do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
And I think that's because that's part of being open,
you know, and and let's face it's it's also somewhat vulnerable.
You know. You've got to accept that kind of vulnerability
as part of relationship, you know, and that's what makes
it risky, but that's what also makes it rewarding when
you get through it.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well, one thing that kind of is a downer is
some people that have hearing problems will either forget to
put their hearing aids on, or they have been so
accustomed to not hearing, but they don't want the other
men to know that they can't hear them. You start
(31:25):
the conversation, they just go on and on and on
and on, and so I think what sometimes, like a
moderator needs to do, know when to change the subject
or move them away from their long verbag.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Yeah, we have a monetorator whould try to come with
something like if it's kind of dead silence and we're
starting out, and he would say, by the way, you
all have had maybe a bucket list, could you tell
something on your list you haven't done yet. It turns
out several men started on that topic, and again another
discussion to continue after that. Again, it does take like
a moderator who's skilled at starting I think rolling not
(32:07):
always just when people show up.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So, I mean, the things you're talking about, I think
are also things that affect a lot of people in
terms of the communication issues. I think that you folks
have mentioned me that you know well you actually you've
given some presentations to people in your community about these issues,
about communications issues. And I think Diane told me that
(32:30):
he met a woman who really felt isolated and felt
you know, she didn't get out of her room. I
think this so this is an issue. I think that
that again goes back to it. It is related to
growing older, and I think we get more isolated and
feeling of insecurity. I think it's in part because there
(32:53):
is I think an unfortunate presumption about seeing years. You
know that that we don't count as much. You know,
there's a dismissive quality to older people about older people.
So talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, and it happened to both of us, and we're
pretty lively. But one of my doctor said something, I
got a letter about genealogical testing because of the background
in my family. And the first thing that came out
of her mind her mouth was, hey, at your age.
(33:35):
And I used one of the strategies from the book,
and I used my diplomatic eyes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I looked straight at her.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And I just said really, and she said, but if
you want to get it, that's fine. And from the
rest of the rest of the time that we were
together and from then on, she has been extremely respectful
of our age and how she talks with us, because
(34:09):
if you're forty five, they're going to talk to you
very differently than if you're eighty five. And so that
was one of the things that I talked about in
this presentation. We as older adults have to unite and
we have to show our power so that we are
(34:35):
respected again by the medical community and not dismissed because
we're older. Why spend the money on medication? Why spend
the money on this testing when you may have five
to ten more years? But why don't we want five
ten years of good health rather than five ten years
(34:59):
of device?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We would have something later or in five days.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I turned eighty six. This one lady out there, he said, oh,
it's your girth day. He said, yeah, the eighty section.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
If you dation. She looked at me really serious. She says,
you don't look like eighty stition, you don't act like it.
I said, thank you very much, and that was it.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
That's nice, And we have to do that with our
children too, because it's the same thing. Oh mom, one
day we have been a cold or something and our
son works in the healthcare.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, your age, guys, and I said, no, at our.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Age is the same as if I was twenty seven,
thirty seven, fifty seven, ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
What would you suggest that we take for a cold?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
But we have to do that with our children because
I think that they tend to feel that we don't
have the intellectual capacity, and if we don't have it,
then at least.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Be able to have a conversations.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
With us, right right, Yeah, I think that there are
two things strike me. One is that, you know, I've
had people say similar things lead to me, like, oh,
you're that age, well you look pretty good for that age,
And my response is, what am I supposed to look like?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:23):
So I think that And there are stereotypes and look.
Speaker 6 (36:26):
I do think back when I was you know, but
I guess maybe ten or eleven, and I was you know, well,
my parents would have cocktail parties in our living room
and I'd be hiding into the looking at the adults,
you know, and thinking, wow, these these people are really old,
you know, and they're probably you know, forty, you know,
so you know, But but I do think there is this,
(36:49):
you know, we have a really pervasive quality of ages
in our society, and some of that, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yes, we do get older. There are things about infirmity.
But I do think that to your point, Diane, that
from the medical profession perspective as well as other social perspectives,
we just have to be more inclusive. It's not the same,
you know, you're not the same at you know, eighty
(37:17):
seven at seven, okay, But we need to have a
system that looks at medical care from the spectrum because
you're aging from the moment you're born. So, but I
do think that there is this precisely what you said,
which is why bother You know, they only have a
few more years. Yeah, they could be great years, and
(37:39):
why don't they deserve to.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Look what's happening in society today.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Do you remember the old people, the old singing, the
artists that were in our.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Time, that were our great singers. They're all coming back.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Barbusson's coming back, you know, and some of the I
mean they're an eighty ninety years old and they're coming back.
So it tells me that the brain has the capability
of continuing on, and we actually should be almost like
(38:16):
the native tribes. We have the knowledge and the background
and the experience. Why can't we pass that on so
that you don't have to suffer as badly as we
did when we were going through that particular age.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah, I think that there are cultures that have a
much more experienced perspective on elders and aging and the
wisdom of aging. And I think that, you know, we
do have a you know, an infatuation with youth and
forget how much we didn't know when we're younger, not
(38:56):
how much we do know now. And I think that
they're you know, the going back to the science of that,
I think that you know that when they do problem solving,
they find out that there are certain kinds of problems
that younger people do better, do, faster and more effectively.
But then there are other problems that involve kind of
(39:17):
you know, using your memory and your experiences with other
things to solve problems quicker than going through sequentially, you know,
one thing after another to solve a problem. So there
really are you know, there is something to wisdom.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
There are some studies there are kind of controversial.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's called medial temporomyelination.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So the middle part it goes directly into the emotional
part of the brain and they say that's the last
part to get this covering on the cells that take
information a little more quickly into the brain. And that
was talked about probably about five ten years ago. But
(40:02):
what they came up with was they felt that as
people get older, the information goes in a little bit
faster and we make sense of it, and we can
say is that really important? If you really look at
people that are older, we will say things like that's okay,
(40:23):
it's not that important. Oh I would have gotten angry
probably when I was your age, But is it really
Can we relax with that?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, is there an easier way out or just
let it ride?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Right? And if you literally look around to people our age,
we tend to do that, but we're not appreciated for it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Boys the reasons.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Right, So now we need we need a T shirt
saying I'm older.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, right, my mind.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I appreciate my mind right right, Well this is great.
What I wanna do, and I just in in our
last few minutes is just to do a little bit
of a wrap up in terms of you know, takeaways.
So I just have a couple like, so, for example,
what would you say to you know, what would be
you say your one tip for someone who who feels like,
oh it's too late to start over a relationship. What
(41:18):
would you what comes to mind would you say to them.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Well, I would look for something in common to talk about,
just turning an our case, being on an overlap, doing
classified work, of all things.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Ty of the things that you had to do that.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
Most people when you know about, but the topic is
just interesting, or at least it was for us.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Well, I'm gonna go a different route.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
I'm gonna say that from a health perspective, from an
intelligence perspective, perspective, from a social perspective, that if you
reach out, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Just take away that old sad that you.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Are you that you don't wanna go out, that you
will then open up more. You will be happier, you
will be intellectually stimulated. You might even find somebody to
eat with, which is the loneliest part of the day.
And don't be afraid to come together and live together
(42:18):
because basically you're gonna live longer because you take care
of each other.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We find that we eat more, we eat.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Better, we exercise more, and we help each other. You know,
I don't feel like walking today, Well he'll say, no,
I feel like it, So then all of a sudden,
I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
But when you're by yourself, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You sit in a chair, have a cup of coffee
or a glass of wine, and the day ends and
you've done nothing. Even if it's you know, men living
with a man or women living with a woman. We
have we have like think two or three cases here
where just a couple of friends got together and it's cheaper,
(42:58):
it's more productive, and it's safer.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So my opinion is why not?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Right, Okay, what about a specific area about a hesitancy
about you know who feel people? We talked about intimacy
will be your one thing? Like worry about instry? What
what what's your tip about addressing well?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Love? Actually and and and and.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Just even a hug increases oxytocin, and it's it's a
wonderful feeling to know that that your heart could be
entwined with someone else, and it takes you to a
higher power, it takes you to a different place. And
(43:44):
so there again, it's what, Uh, The only thing I
would say is if you really have to make sure
that the person that you're with is not out for scamming,
you know, that's why we put everything on the line.
This is how much money I have, This is what
I do, This is how I have it, This is
(44:05):
how I spend.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
He did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And when a person is not afraid to present themselves fully,
they will also present themselves fully in a sexual situation.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So leave from a perspective of someone who was in
a higher place working with satellites, what would What's one
thing comes to mind for you in terms of you.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
Know, I think she really hit it with the awareness
because I've been learning that from her in these research
in these areas, and she applied it to me before
I realized what she was doing. Well then, yeah, I
was asked through read all her books, so guess what,
I get to read it over and over again and
give her feedback saying, you know, did I understand it
(44:52):
or could be written a little bit better. So it's
the same with the exercise, Like you say, that's something
that's quite common and not to sexist considered exercise, but
still to be healthy enough to do it, and so
you have to be healthy enough and eat well. I mean, again,
my diet is so much better. She's the researcher, and
what are we supposed to be eating?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Well, that's another piece though.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you don't eat a good diet, how often do
you go into aging retirement communities?
Speaker 1 (45:23):
When we speak to people that are at.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Premium places, they want the people to be happy, so
they provide pizza, breads, desserts, ice cream machines.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
And that's fine.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
But one of the ladies who actually we met the
other day, she said.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
That's fine, but what about health.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Well, they know that the older people will reject it
because they're accustomed to meat and potatoes, so they're not going.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
To make it.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
So that's the difficult part of going to a premium
place or any place, but then eating maybe a healthier
diet when you are maybe not looking for that. But
what found is by eating a good diet, we have
more energy.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
If you have more energy, you feel like doing more.
You do more, you feel better.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
So what would you say it was the most surprising
adjustment you made in your relationships with each other that
perhaps you didn't expect.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
But I would say the frequency and accuracy of communications
really what it was like the first time I invited
Diane over and I sarved her red wine and she
drank it. Later I found out she had stopped drinking
red wine, which she likes, and then we've been drinking
it together ever since. But see, I didn't know you know,
and so it's just what these things happen. But it's
(46:59):
just if you already open and making sure we understand
what we're thinking about and.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
What we're doing. I think it's it's calming. I didn't
realize how uptight I was until I started to relax.
He really taught me that I felt more secure, I
felt more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And his speech patterns.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
His speech patterns, he's a softer spoken person, and that
brought my voice down and he would we would just
start talking more comfortably. And my son said to me
other day, he said, who are you?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
But you know, it goes to I think something that
you've mentioned before but that I think is important, is
that it's something you need to work on you. I
think the phrasing you used was connection. Connection is a
choice and a practice.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
But you know, and this is actually we've proven this.
Speech patterns will change and people don't even realize it.
Here's an example. If I'm going to turn the thermostat
up or down. Hey, I'm going to turn it up
if you don't mind, I'm a little cold. And about
two weeks later, he started using the exact same speech pattern.
(48:24):
I'm going to turn it up if it's okay with you,
or I'm going to turn it down. And now we
start we find ourselves using similar speech patterns. So if
you're in an office, like you were telling me about
office structure, if you start using positive speech patterns and
utilizing the assets of each person that are in the office,
(48:46):
then they start to see themselves as assets, and the
whole vibe of the office and the domain will change.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
So last thing I wanted to ask you, I really
enjoyed this converse station looking back, say to say, before
forty five forward, what would you say to anything that
you would say to your younger self about what you
wish you had known?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Then I would say, enjoy the moment, don't worry what
other people think. We were brought up in a very
religious family, you know, had to do everything correct. Now
I realized that it's okay to make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Where do you think?
Speaker 5 (49:33):
Yeah, I think the thing I accused myself of was
being on the shy side. And even though I was
an athlete in high school, in college, I was in
sports and did well so many other cases, if I
was just a little more forward with what I was
really thinking about in certain situations.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
If I didn't just pay him up and not say anything.
Speaker 5 (49:52):
So I think I missed a lot of opportunities by
not just being a little more open when I'm with people.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And now he's completely open. No, he walks down the
hall and talks to all the ladies and all the
guys were before he used to be very you know,
very quiet and keep to himself.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Oh my gosh, what did I create.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
No, it's beasure though, when you do talk to the people.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Like the man across the way, he's in his middle
nineties and he had cancer and we asked him about
it the last time I saw him, and this time
he had a.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Even bigger patch on his head and I said, what's
happened this time?
Speaker 5 (50:33):
He said, oh, they're still exploring, trying to find where
is it coming from and what's the next step.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
I said, well, I hope you're doing well. But he
just really smiled just because you know, I stup and
talked to him.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
That was just one real quick thing that we noticed
here is that people think they have to always say
something positive, but really people feel felt if you say
you look like you've had a bad night.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Even if you don't know that person, and they feel
so loved that you'll see them almost following you.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Down the hallway. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
And if you know, if people that are set that
are they're selling you know, the idea of over fifty
five communities. I could just learn these few little tips
and then you know, just kind of start using it
amongst people there literally have a very vibrant community.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
Yeah. Yeah, you know. Well, I'll just say one last
thing about you know, caring and caregiving, which is so
I have this book that I produce for family caregivers
called The Caregiving Navigator. So it's literally for spouses and
for adult children taking care of their older ones as
(51:56):
they get older, but more broadly, as the more I've
explored this whole area, you know, it it's about how
we care for each other on our society, and that's
something that we don't really think about, but it's it's
that that sentiment of caring that that goes so much
further than just the physical or you know, caring for
(52:21):
eating and you know, the physical what they call, you know,
activities of daily living. You know, it's you know, and
it's it's something that I think is really important, and
I think that is again we're going to our you know,
issue with sort of ageism of older people. It's even
(52:43):
it's as important all the way through life, you know,
and I think that you guys have shown that and
caring for each other. So I really appreciate your conversation
about that.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well, we really appreciate you, and we appreciate you actually
bringing all these shoes to light. There aren't many programs
there many people talking about this that help us to
define life after forty five.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, so that might be your next book.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Okay, so listen, if people have questions or want to
reach you, what's the best way to reach you, guys?
Is it you have emails or social media or what's
what's the best way to if they have questions they
want to follow you?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Well, we both have gmails, so it's doctor Diane O
four at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (53:39):
Yeah, but people should know it's and Diane with two Yes,
I got.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
You're so good.
Speaker 5 (53:45):
Yes, yeah, and I also have similar accounts, but I
think going on through Diane, she would benefit from having
that flow go through her.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
So I don't have it for do you share and
just say one step on my part not sitting it somewhere.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Okay, yes, so I do have a website. It's had
doctor Diane. Well no, let's do this one word power
well yeah, word power powerpress dot com.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Okay, good. You can learn more about your book and
I've got all your other works. And then, as I
said before, if they go to my website forty five
forward dot org, you'll it'll take you to a list
of all my podcasts and yours will be near the top,
and people can read a little bit more about you
in your background and so forth.
Speaker 5 (54:33):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
And also for those who want to listen you know
this podcast, who you know, they can, we can pass
it along and they can listen to it. They can
listen to it, and they can also watch it on YouTube.
So there's a YouTube channel forty five forward dot org
YouTube channel. So again, thank you so much, folks, people,
(55:00):
and also send me questions and comments to Ron at
forty five forward dot org. And so until the next time, folks,
keep moving forward. Forty five Forward
It's a wonderful feeling to know that.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Your heart could be entwined with someone else, and it
takes you to a higher power, it takes you to
a different place, and so there again, it's the only
thing I would say is if you really have to
make sure that the person that you're with is not
out for scamming.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's why we put everything on the line.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This is how much money I have, this is what
I do, this is how I have it, this is
how I spend He did the same thing. And when
a person is not afraid to present themselves fully, they
will also present themselves fully in a sexual situation.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hello everyone, this is Ron Roell. I'm your host of
forty five Forward, where my missions to help you make
the second half of life even better than the first.
What do you do when you've been married for many
years and find yourself alone after losing your partner? Can
you find love again? Companionship, intimacy, a new sense of purpose?
(01:16):
Today we'll meet Diane Olvera and Lee Sweeney who did
lose their longtime spouses and unexpectedly found themselves starting over
in the same retirement community in Colorado. Today, we're going
to talk about a number of interesting things. First of all,
how do you break through the initial fears and concerns
of you know, meeting somebody new, getting to know them,
working out things from very different backgrounds, and sustaining new
(01:40):
relationship The lessons learned a new way of understanding relationships,
respect and growing as we age. It's a great story.
So now let's meet our guests, Diane Alvera and Lee Sweeney.
Diana and Lee, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you, thank.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You, pleasure to have you guys. So let's start from
you know, from the beginning of your meeting, sort of
that that initial story of what were some of the
things you thought about, your initial impressions. Let's talk you
by your own encounters and remember your feelings of apprehension
and also a little bit of hope and anticipation. So Diane,
(02:17):
I'll start with you, and then Lee would jump in.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, actually we met each other through a mutual friend.
We were at an octoberfest. Reintroduced and we spoke briefly,
and then we saw each other again. We had it
was twenty twenty, so that's when uh COVID was So
we had a we had grief meetings that were available
(02:44):
available for us.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Interesting, okay, and uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So Lee was sitting across from me, and I think
he mentioned a few things about his past which was
very similar to mine.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And after the meeting we started to chat.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Right right, A return to yours is more complex than
nine ones, huh.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So, but there there are some initial, you know, issues
that you deal with. I sort of said, well, there
are the usual things in relationships, sort of like you know, money, sex,
and values. So so talk about you know, some of
those initial concerns in these issues. And uh, I know
that again, Diane, you you mentioned that. I think it's
a sort of normal. Probably I'm not sure for women
(03:33):
more than men, but I think there is a feeling of,
you know, disloyalty to your farmer's spouse. So I talk
t talk about that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes, uh we I are are both of our our
our partners died within two months of each other. Mm
and then it must have been about four months afterward
we really started to meet each other talk and have
go to go to each other's apartments and lunch or dinner,
(04:05):
and then we started to feel more engaged with each other.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And I felt really guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
The phrase that kept going to make me feel good
was till death do us part, and death had happened.
But I finally I talked to my counselor. I had
been seeing a counselor throughout the time of my husband's sickness,
and I said to her, I said, I just feel
so guilty. This seems so right, but so wrong. And
(04:36):
she said, you know, people that have had good marriages
or good relationships prior to the demise will usually look
for another relationship. Those who have not will shy away
from it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And Leeah know that you you know, you were involved
in a lot of caregiving for your former spouse, and
so I'm sure there was a lot of emotional connect
that you had to sort of work through and sort
of transference or you know, how do you get, you know,
work into a new relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
My wife fell and broke her hip, and she was
over eighty years old, and the statistics show they don't
last very long after that. So basically fell July fourth
and died in seventeenth of August.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
And then meeting Diane, we had so many things in
common to talk about.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
It wasn't just because our spouses had passed on. With
the kind of work we were doing. You know, it
was classified work. You know, hers was on the ground
and MI was satellites up in the air. But even
though those are very diverse areas, we just had a
lot in common, eating and up and back out of
bed at the same times, and religion.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
All those topics we did touch.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
On and we worked on all the details very smooth.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, that's which is something I think that people should
think about. You know, when you're young, your working at
your jobs and you meet each other, you meet friends.
But as you get older, you're isolated. Probably spent maybe
(06:12):
the last twenty to thirty or forty years isolated with you,
your husband, your family, and your very close community, and
then all of a sudden, you're in this larger community alone.
You Usually a lot of the people have moved from
where they've lived for thirty forty years into this community because.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Their children live in the area.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So it's pretty scary to first of all, even go
out to do anything with the people that you live with.
And then, to make things worse, you meet somebody and
they know that his wife died and your husband died,
and they start to you know, talk, and you know,
(06:59):
you used to start to feel like, okay, well we're
the outsiders, and do.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
They like it? Do they not like it?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And one couple who actually got together after we did,
she was ninety and he was in his eighties, and
her friends literally.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
They were very angry with her.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Really yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, so she really she said that's too bad, and
she just went on and now they.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Live together and they're very happy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So I think if we could give any advice to
older people and older couples, don't worry about what other
people say, because it's now people are seeing us and
they want to emulate.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
A relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I think that you know, there is this unfortunate stereotype
or just as something. It's like, okay, you get to
a certain age, Well you had your relationship, You had
your relationship, and then you know that's it. You know,
you don't grow anymore, you don't change. And I think
too actually probably I don't know what your experience has
been with your children, but I'm sure there's some things
(08:17):
to work out with your family too, And like, really
that mom or dad is going to have another partner,
how dare you?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Oh? And and even and intimacy.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You know, luckily I have a very open relationship with
with our with my youngest son, and so he'll say, yeah,
and I suppose you're having sex too, And I said, uh,
and then he said yeah every day. So we uh,
(08:51):
we just we you know, we just said, oh, well,
you know, it's it's our life, it's our happiness, and
we know how sensitive life and death is. And with
your son, it was funny because they live away from
the area.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And one of his sons actually came.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And visited us and they stayed the whole afternoon and
we had you know, we ate together and we had
a wonderful time, and then they came back again this year.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, there's a lot to work out, you know, in
the relationships earlier and later in a continuing way. So
you know, some of the things that we've talked about
in our previous conversations are you know, as you mentioned earlier,
there are certain assumptions. If you went with someone for
a long time and then you're in no relationship, you
sort of forget about how many things you kind of
(09:50):
worked through and you need to rethink, so some of
them might go ahead.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Ly excuse me, I said, one of the things that
comes up is I was living in a patio home separate.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
She was in an an apartment. It's don't rent, and
so one of the things.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
We discussed, why don't we move in together, But we
didn't want to do it on day one. So I
actually told the management here, I said, I want to
give up my patio home for a one bedroom apartment
down the hall from Diane, and they said okay, so
they we wrote my contract. So I signed out for
a year and I don't think we made it through
the full year before I signed up with Diane for
a contract one year contract in the two different places.
(10:26):
So that was very smooth. But you know, when you
come into it, you say, are you going to do that?
And the answer was never crossed your mind. But you know,
sharing expenses was like I had a car, she had
a car. I sold mine, it was over and so
we share expenses there too.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, but that's something that you've talked about that you know,
some things you need to really put out in the open,
and one of them is money. A lot of couples
break up over money, so talking about you know, again,
what are your assumptions And okay, maybe I assumed that
we'd split this or did that, but something you have
to work out right, you got to sit down and say.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You really have to have an open conversation about everything.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And we don't plan to have children, and why do
we need to be married.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Because we have all of the finances and all of
our paperwork done for our family.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Our children are my children, and he has.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
All the paperwork done for his family and his children.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So there's no reason.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
To mix in our minds finances because it just adds
another layer of a possibility of issues.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Well, she told you I was as special as I
work on spreadsheet. So I was ex prepared in California
years ago, bonded all anyway, So.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
What I did.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I have a spreadsheet and at all the expenses of reseachs,
they go into the spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
At the end of each months, we balance it out.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
If one spent more than the other, that one, you know,
gives a check to the other one and we spliff
the rent down the middle, the car of fences down
the middle, and you know, food and some of the
things we don't nickel and diamond, but you know, just
like to just keeping track.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It stays in balance.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Clarity is important and specificity. Yeah, and I think that
so in that regard, in a different kind of area.
But again clarity in terms of I know we've talked
before Diane about you know again, one of the concerns
I think from a woman's perspective is listen, I'm not
going to come in here and be your worker, be
(12:31):
in the kitchen here. So let's make let's make that clear.
So let's talk about the roles in terms of, you know,
household chores and somethings like that.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Let me intercept one thing first.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Okay, I was not into yoga, and Diane is in
a full gore you So it turns out she's been
doing for yours and I joined her well.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Not quite as flexible as she is, but she can
adjest to it.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Now that I like much better now and I did
five years ago when we first met.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
It's just something we do together.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
But there again, that's a man's ability to be open minded.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Now, you work with a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Run how many men would acquiesce to even the idea
of changing their diet or changing doing yoga.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I mean, that's you know, they would just immediately just
give it up.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And no, he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And just like in the house, I My husband was Latino,
and so I was the subservient wife.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I enjoyed helping him and giving to him.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well then you get tired, and so at the end
of his life, the last thing I wanted to do
was to be someone's subservient wife, a friend.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Or lover or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But when I invited him to make a bananas one day,
he didn't leave the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
He started washing dishes.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
He was actually my my chef, my my yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, I never even heard of Argentine in but that
was what sees me.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
I had the rolling pan and had to, you knowdo
the packages for the dough and figure out how to
have a stick to the roller and make a big mess,
you know that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think what really impressed me was I saw it
as a sign of maturity.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't mean the maturity.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
That a person can look beyond self and look at
the whole picture what needs to be done and just
do it. He actually taught me. I mean, because I
didn't keep tabs anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was there's a glass in the saint put it away,
and it really helped me to calm down. I was
kind of aggressive at the beginning of our relationship because
I had to be you know, when you're working for
forty years twenty to forty is a caregiver. You know,
(15:18):
you have to monitor and you have to make sure
that everyone that is on his case is doing their job.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So when he came in, I was still like that.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
I had fun with her, like we're making in finals
and you have to cut the olives. She says, they
always are in the refrigerator. Well, I don't know about you.
I can't find things in her refrigerator, skinny tall bottle
behind two other things.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And she says, how come you can't move things and
find it? I said, I mean there's multiple shows. What
don't I to do? I just wanted you to say,
where are the allise?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It worked up fine, but it wasn't grudge holding.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, and you have to let go of things and
try new things and that, you know, so you have
to maintain a sense of curiosity and adaptability. You know.
I think it's hard, you know, I think, well, people
can if they go to my forty five forward dot
org website, you know, they can see I have the
(16:17):
episode up there, but I have your backgrounds up there,
so they can see quite a bit about you're both
of your very distinguished backgrounds, and he went through a
number of things. But you know, as you mentioned brieflyly,
you know you were with them the spy in the
sky and I was a spy in the ground. I mean,
you had different, very different kinds of careers. But but
you have to find that common ground and also that
(16:40):
common compromising sometimes and so you have to continue adapting
in life and say, well, I gotta I've got to
think about you know how you know, I think I
think one thing, and I don't think it's just about
older people, right, but I think a lot of people
quite young get very stuck in their patterns and don't
(17:02):
want to change, and you have to have some adaptability.
You got to have that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, I think it all goes down to maturity. But
apart from maturity, it is the ability to know yourself.
If you're secure in yourself, you are then secure in
your environment or in any environment. And I think our
(17:25):
backgrounds caused us to have to be able to roll
with the punches.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
But in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I think it's even more important to just feel like
I'm comfortable in me. That's what I find is very
difficult with the women that I speak with, because they
forgot who me was. They were the wife, and so
their biggest fear is how do I even carry on
(17:56):
a conversation when my husband had all the things to
add and the men would do the same thing. They
were afraid to come, like to the men's group because
their wives did all the talking. One man even said
that to me, Yeah, he said, well, my wife does
all the talking. Why do I need to go to
a men's group because I don't have her to tell
(18:18):
where all the stories?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
So you didn't You're really not aware until you're in
a new environment of all the roles you had and
didn't have. And I think that that's that is a
problem when people then become suddenly independent or suddenly solo again.
It's like not realizing how many things that were partitioned
and one did one thing. And I think I think
(18:41):
that happens quite a bit actually, unfortunately in the area
of money, when when you know the male spouse, you know,
passes and then the woman realizes, God, I don't know
anything about the money in this family or the estate,
you know, So it's important to share these kinds of things,
and you know, going forward. So you guys are now
(19:02):
you're you're you're learning about this and sharing. I think
that's really important.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Another thing we're sharing this is she accuses me of
reading her mind like something done, and I do.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It just as she's about to ask me to do it.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I said, I'm not connecting to your mind directly that
I'm aware of. But again, it's awareness, like maybe you
just anticipate what comes next, and I wish you didn't
used to have anybody doing.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
That with it.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Actually we both said that we've never met anybody so
in sync intellectually as well as just cognitive on that
cognitive layer that they just kind of know, you know
what the other person needs are at the moment. And
I think, if I can tell you what it is
(19:52):
research my brain research, it's awareness. When you open your awareness,
you then open yourselves to opening all of your senses.
And when your senses are open, you feel life more,
you see life more, and you become attached to the
(20:14):
real world around you, and that opens up so many doors.
One lady, when we gave our talk the other day
at where we live, she came up to us about
a week later and she said, I have to tell
you when you said open your awareness. She said, I
went home and I started to realize I say things
(20:38):
without thinking. And her husband just had this biggest smile
because it was like, I know, she said, now I
realize that I have to think before I say something
to someone because I might say the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So we're going to talk a lot more about that
and your also your book plan The Power of Connection.
Before we get to the I want to talk about
something that is, uh is sensitive to talk about. You know,
you guys are going through it, which is you know,
especially as you get older. We touched on earlier, but
the whole issue of intimacy and you know, how do
(21:18):
you create a new intimacy and it's risky and uh
so I wanted I wanted to actually mention something that
you guys told have told me before, which is like
put into sort of you know, quotations. The kitchen hug.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, well she had at the end of the kitchen,
you know, to learn how to make infanatus. And I'm
not sure it was on the first day I was
with her in the kitchen that I hugged her. But
we were doing things routinely, whether it's loading and unloading
the dishwasher or just cooking and preparing meals, and it
just crossed my mind. She looked like she needed to hug,
not just a real.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Good hug, real good hug back. And I said, see,
that was like a test you could get out of here.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I don't want that. But he said, she hugged me back.
So it was a straight forward, but it was spontaneous.
I didn't plan ahead. I say, oh, now's the day
for a hug. It just happened in the kitchen where
we spend time together.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But you know that releases oxytocin, and it's also it
proves your health, right, so it increases the ability to
you know, cure viruses or whatever you want to think about.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Right, So the.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Hug was fine.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
The first kiss was not so fine. When I went
to his house, he invited me up, and I don't
know if it was before I think it was before
or after we yea.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I think it was before he said may I kiss you?
And I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I hadn't had that situation in forty years, so I
puckered up. And afterwards he told me he said it
was like kissing a walnut.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Well, no, but again, see I didn't anticipate anything about
good or bad. I guess I would like to do
it because I was getting along with her, and I
think it was the second time I invited her to
the petty home where I lived, And so when she
was taking her coat off and hung it up, I
just looked it right in the eye and say, may
I kiss you? So that's where the first kiss was.
(23:20):
No hugs or anything that we went about eating lunch
together or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
It was the reason she came over.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But then you talk about intimacy. You know, from a woman's.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Perspective, our bodies are not the same as it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Was when we were forty years earlier, and so one
of your fears is how do you just robe yeah
and feel comfortable knowing that you're sagging and you're not
that beautiful body that you were forty years.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Before, And so that was difficult.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And then and for men, and for men, will he
be able to perform? And what can you do to
enhance performance at our age so that you're able to perform.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
It wasn't like I was diagnosis and he malfunctioning. It
was just she saw an ad on the paper about
acoustic wave therapy, which I'd never heard of, and it
was a local place had just opened and said we
have a special going on, and so we went in together,
you know, and I got examined and said, yeah, you're
a candidate if you'd like to do this.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So I signed up, and I think it was six
weeks in a row.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
I went in for an acoustic wave therapy treatment sound
waves and I didn't say it was like day and night,
but it improves our performance and the thing. I signed
up and they said back once a year for a
tune up if you like. So the next two years
I went in for a tune up, and then the
next time I tried to go in, they didn't answer
the phone.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
And when I looked up their nearest office in Salt
Lake City, then.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I'm not right. Yeah, but I think that that openness
and that you know, willingness to recognize it's not the same,
but you can do a lot of things to improve
it and make it great. I mean, I think that
I think what you're saying, Diane is I do think
that there's sort of more unfortunately societal pressure on women
(25:25):
somehow to be you know, to maintained physical appearance, but
mens sag too, and I think that, you know, you
do well, I'll speak for myselfly, you know, I'm like,
who's that in the mirror? Wait a minute, that's that's me? Okay, okay,
(25:47):
you know. Or you look at somebody and say, well,
they look kind of old, you know, and you're like,
wait a minute, I'm older than they are, So how
do I look?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
So I think that, but just being comfortable, it's okay,
it's it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Sometimes it's fine something it's like, well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The thing, too, is what do you do when your relationship,
your prior relationship physically sexually was in demise.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
You know, so.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You you got out of practice.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Mm hmm, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And so there again we.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Have to re find open conversations really do help.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, let's talk more about that. That's a good segue
to the next section about just about the importance of communication.
Now you have a book. You've had a number of books,
but you're I think most recent one is dealing with
the power of communication. So let's talk a little bit
more about that, about just the ability, you know, to communicate.
I think you told me once that you and leagues
(27:00):
and we're a good team. We look at each other
and talk, you know. But I think that ability to
really be open about a lot of things personal issues,
health problems, financial issues, and to look for ways of
finding you know, common ground or at least common understandings
(27:23):
to resolve things, because there could inevitably be differences, So
how do you resolve them? Understanding each other's position and
basically being able to both be together and maintain you know, independence.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, we got word power.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Our words have power, and it actually sits the domain
for where you are. So when you are always talking,
like telling him what to do, telling her what to.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Do, you're dominating.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So what when you have word power, you open up
conversations and you use your awareness to find positive things
like hey, thank you so much for helping me in
the kitchen. I didn't expect that that was simply that
was very nothing, but yet it was because it made
(28:26):
him feel felt. And then using your eyes, how often
do you walk into the house and say hi, honey,
and don't look at them and just walk into the bedroom,
change your club whatever. They don't feel felt, So we
really make an effort at just looking at each other
(28:47):
and making him feel like he is in his conversation
is important to me and so that opens up the
door for communication.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Sometimes, you know, men are not as quite as practice
I think, I mean, you know, we I do think,
you know, for better or worse. In the workplace, you
know there there are power dynamics, you know, and so
(29:20):
you don't really are you know, work at that level
of you know, of collaboration, basically working out the inside.
Well are you higher or am I higher?
Speaker 5 (29:31):
So?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
But then one of the things you mentioned to me
but previously was that you joined a men's group. So
tell me a little bit about that. What what who
you experienced and what did you get out of that
or maybe still getting out of it.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
The celly where we are currently has forty four men
in it, and what they want is more than what
we have now, which is like it doesn't that come?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
But E thinks, like what did they talk about?
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Well, it could be current events like politics, religion, things
like that, but usually it's just something it was funny
they did when they were younger, and I heard some
stories I just couldn't believe what they would do, Like
there were one man lived in Massachusetts, the other in Denver,
and what do they do They skips school, take a train,
you go see a baseball game in another city.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I said, I never even thought of doing that.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
But it wasn't. They didn't tell it to be funny.
That's just the things they were doing. And that was
kind of entertaining where everybody say, gosh, I wish I
did that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I think they also everyone's when you'll come back and
he'll say, we did talk about some personal things or
how people feel, especially when the guys are new.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, I mean I know that.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
You know, a lot of therapists talk about Okay, well
how do you feel about this? But I think there
is something to that. You know, you can intellectualize it,
but then it sort of just stopped and say, well,
how do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
And I think that's because that's part of being open,
you know, and and let's face it's it's also somewhat vulnerable.
You know. You've got to accept that kind of vulnerability
as part of relationship, you know, and that's what makes
it risky, but that's what also makes it rewarding when
you get through it.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well, one thing that kind of is a downer is
some people that have hearing problems will either forget to
put their hearing aids on, or they have been so
accustomed to not hearing, but they don't want the other
men to know that they can't hear them. You start
(31:25):
the conversation, they just go on and on and on
and on, and so I think what sometimes, like a
moderator needs to do, know when to change the subject
or move them away from their long verbag.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Yeah, we have a monetorator whould try to come with
something like if it's kind of dead silence and we're
starting out, and he would say, by the way, you
all have had maybe a bucket list, could you tell
something on your list you haven't done yet. It turns
out several men started on that topic, and again another
discussion to continue after that. Again, it does take like
a moderator who's skilled at starting I think rolling not
(32:07):
always just when people show up.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So, I mean, the things you're talking about, I think
are also things that affect a lot of people in
terms of the communication issues. I think that you folks
have mentioned me that you know well you actually you've
given some presentations to people in your community about these issues,
about communications issues. And I think Diane told me that
(32:30):
he met a woman who really felt isolated and felt
you know, she didn't get out of her room. I
think this so this is an issue. I think that
that again goes back to it. It is related to
growing older, and I think we get more isolated and
feeling of insecurity. I think it's in part because there
(32:53):
is I think an unfortunate presumption about seeing years. You
know that that we don't count as much. You know,
there's a dismissive quality to older people about older people.
So talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, and it happened to both of us, and we're
pretty lively. But one of my doctor said something, I
got a letter about genealogical testing because of the background
in my family. And the first thing that came out
of her mind her mouth was, hey, at your age.
(33:35):
And I used one of the strategies from the book,
and I used my diplomatic eyes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I looked straight at her.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And I just said really, and she said, but if
you want to get it, that's fine. And from the
rest of the rest of the time that we were
together and from then on, she has been extremely respectful
of our age and how she talks with us, because
(34:09):
if you're forty five, they're going to talk to you
very differently than if you're eighty five. And so that
was one of the things that I talked about in
this presentation. We as older adults have to unite and
we have to show our power so that we are
(34:35):
respected again by the medical community and not dismissed because
we're older. Why spend the money on medication? Why spend
the money on this testing when you may have five
to ten more years? But why don't we want five
ten years of good health rather than five ten years
(34:59):
of device?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We would have something later or in five days.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I turned eighty six. This one lady out there, he said, oh,
it's your girth day. He said, yeah, the eighty section.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
If you dation. She looked at me really serious. She says,
you don't look like eighty stition, you don't act like it.
I said, thank you very much, and that was it.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
That's nice, And we have to do that with our
children too, because it's the same thing. Oh mom, one
day we have been a cold or something and our
son works in the healthcare.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, your age, guys, and I said, no, at our.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Age is the same as if I was twenty seven,
thirty seven, fifty seven, ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
What would you suggest that we take for a cold?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
But we have to do that with our children because
I think that they tend to feel that we don't
have the intellectual capacity, and if we don't have it,
then at least.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Be able to have a conversations.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
With us, right right, Yeah, I think that there are
two things strike me. One is that, you know, I've
had people say similar things lead to me, like, oh,
you're that age, well you look pretty good for that age,
And my response is, what am I supposed to look like?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:23):
So I think that And there are stereotypes and look.
Speaker 6 (36:26):
I do think back when I was you know, but
I guess maybe ten or eleven, and I was you know, well,
my parents would have cocktail parties in our living room
and I'd be hiding into the looking at the adults,
you know, and thinking, wow, these these people are really old,
you know, and they're probably you know, forty, you know,
so you know, But but I do think there is this,
(36:49):
you know, we have a really pervasive quality of ages
in our society, and some of that, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yes, we do get older. There are things about infirmity.
But I do think that to your point, Diane, that
from the medical profession perspective as well as other social perspectives,
we just have to be more inclusive. It's not the same,
you know, you're not the same at you know, eighty
(37:17):
seven at seven, okay, But we need to have a
system that looks at medical care from the spectrum because
you're aging from the moment you're born. So, but I
do think that there is this precisely what you said,
which is why bother You know, they only have a
few more years. Yeah, they could be great years, and
(37:39):
why don't they deserve to.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Look what's happening in society today.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Do you remember the old people, the old singing, the
artists that were in our.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Time, that were our great singers. They're all coming back.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Barbusson's coming back, you know, and some of the I
mean they're an eighty ninety years old and they're coming back.
So it tells me that the brain has the capability
of continuing on, and we actually should be almost like
(38:16):
the native tribes. We have the knowledge and the background
and the experience. Why can't we pass that on so
that you don't have to suffer as badly as we
did when we were going through that particular age.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah, I think that there are cultures that have a
much more experienced perspective on elders and aging and the
wisdom of aging. And I think that, you know, we
do have a you know, an infatuation with youth and
forget how much we didn't know when we're younger, not
(38:56):
how much we do know now. And I think that
they're you know, the going back to the science of that,
I think that you know that when they do problem solving,
they find out that there are certain kinds of problems
that younger people do better, do, faster and more effectively.
But then there are other problems that involve kind of
(39:17):
you know, using your memory and your experiences with other
things to solve problems quicker than going through sequentially, you know,
one thing after another to solve a problem. So there
really are you know, there is something to wisdom.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
There are some studies there are kind of controversial.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's called medial temporomyelination.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So the middle part it goes directly into the emotional
part of the brain and they say that's the last
part to get this covering on the cells that take
information a little more quickly into the brain. And that
was talked about probably about five ten years ago. But
(40:02):
what they came up with was they felt that as
people get older, the information goes in a little bit
faster and we make sense of it, and we can
say is that really important? If you really look at
people that are older, we will say things like that's okay,
(40:23):
it's not that important. Oh I would have gotten angry
probably when I was your age, But is it really
Can we relax with that?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, is there an easier way out or just
let it ride?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Right? And if you literally look around to people our age,
we tend to do that, but we're not appreciated for it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Boys the reasons.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Right, So now we need we need a T shirt
saying I'm older.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, right, my mind.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I appreciate my mind right right, Well this is great.
What I wanna do, and I just in in our
last few minutes is just to do a little bit
of a wrap up in terms of you know, takeaways.
So I just have a couple like, so, for example,
what would you say to you know, what would be
you say your one tip for someone who who feels like,
oh it's too late to start over a relationship. What
(41:18):
would you what comes to mind would you say to them.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Well, I would look for something in common to talk about,
just turning an our case, being on an overlap, doing
classified work, of all things.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Ty of the things that you had to do that.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
Most people when you know about, but the topic is
just interesting, or at least it was for us.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Well, I'm gonna go a different route.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
I'm gonna say that from a health perspective, from an
intelligence perspective, perspective, from a social perspective, that if you
reach out, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Just take away that old sad that you.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Are you that you don't wanna go out, that you
will then open up more. You will be happier, you
will be intellectually stimulated. You might even find somebody to
eat with, which is the loneliest part of the day.
And don't be afraid to come together and live together
(42:18):
because basically you're gonna live longer because you take care
of each other.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We find that we eat more, we eat.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Better, we exercise more, and we help each other. You know,
I don't feel like walking today, Well he'll say, no,
I feel like it, So then all of a sudden,
I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
But when you're by yourself, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You sit in a chair, have a cup of coffee
or a glass of wine, and the day ends and
you've done nothing. Even if it's you know, men living
with a man or women living with a woman. We
have we have like think two or three cases here
where just a couple of friends got together and it's cheaper,
(42:58):
it's more productive, and it's safer.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So my opinion is why not?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Right, Okay, what about a specific area about a hesitancy
about you know who feel people? We talked about intimacy
will be your one thing? Like worry about instry? What
what what's your tip about addressing well?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Love? Actually and and and and.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Just even a hug increases oxytocin, and it's it's a
wonderful feeling to know that that your heart could be
entwined with someone else, and it takes you to a
higher power, it takes you to a different place. And
(43:44):
so there again, it's what, Uh, The only thing I
would say is if you really have to make sure
that the person that you're with is not out for scamming,
you know, that's why we put everything on the line.
This is how much money I have, This is what
I do, This is how I have it, This is
(44:05):
how I spend.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
He did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And when a person is not afraid to present themselves fully,
they will also present themselves fully in a sexual situation.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So leave from a perspective of someone who was in
a higher place working with satellites, what would What's one
thing comes to mind for you in terms of you.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
Know, I think she really hit it with the awareness
because I've been learning that from her in these research
in these areas, and she applied it to me before
I realized what she was doing. Well then, yeah, I
was asked through read all her books, so guess what,
I get to read it over and over again and
give her feedback saying, you know, did I understand it
(44:52):
or could be written a little bit better. So it's
the same with the exercise, Like you say, that's something
that's quite common and not to sexist considered exercise, but
still to be healthy enough to do it, and so
you have to be healthy enough and eat well. I mean, again,
my diet is so much better. She's the researcher, and
what are we supposed to be eating?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Well, that's another piece though.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you don't eat a good diet, how often do
you go into aging retirement communities?
Speaker 1 (45:23):
When we speak to people that are at.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Premium places, they want the people to be happy, so
they provide pizza, breads, desserts, ice cream machines.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
And that's fine.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
But one of the ladies who actually we met the
other day, she said.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
That's fine, but what about health.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Well, they know that the older people will reject it
because they're accustomed to meat and potatoes, so they're not going.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
To make it.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
So that's the difficult part of going to a premium
place or any place, but then eating maybe a healthier
diet when you are maybe not looking for that. But
what found is by eating a good diet, we have
more energy.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
If you have more energy, you feel like doing more.
You do more, you feel better.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
So what would you say it was the most surprising
adjustment you made in your relationships with each other that
perhaps you didn't expect.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
But I would say the frequency and accuracy of communications
really what it was like the first time I invited
Diane over and I sarved her red wine and she
drank it. Later I found out she had stopped drinking
red wine, which she likes, and then we've been drinking
it together ever since. But see, I didn't know you know,
and so it's just what these things happen. But it's
(46:59):
just if you already open and making sure we understand
what we're thinking about and.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
What we're doing. I think it's it's calming. I didn't
realize how uptight I was until I started to relax.
He really taught me that I felt more secure, I
felt more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And his speech patterns.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
His speech patterns, he's a softer spoken person, and that
brought my voice down and he would we would just
start talking more comfortably. And my son said to me
other day, he said, who are you?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
But you know, it goes to I think something that
you've mentioned before but that I think is important, is
that it's something you need to work on you. I
think the phrasing you used was connection. Connection is a
choice and a practice.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
But you know, and this is actually we've proven this.
Speech patterns will change and people don't even realize it.
Here's an example. If I'm going to turn the thermostat
up or down. Hey, I'm going to turn it up
if you don't mind, I'm a little cold. And about
two weeks later, he started using the exact same speech pattern.
(48:24):
I'm going to turn it up if it's okay with you,
or I'm going to turn it down. And now we
start we find ourselves using similar speech patterns. So if
you're in an office, like you were telling me about
office structure, if you start using positive speech patterns and
utilizing the assets of each person that are in the office,
(48:46):
then they start to see themselves as assets, and the
whole vibe of the office and the domain will change.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
So last thing I wanted to ask you, I really
enjoyed this converse station looking back, say to say, before
forty five forward, what would you say to anything that
you would say to your younger self about what you
wish you had known?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Then I would say, enjoy the moment, don't worry what
other people think. We were brought up in a very
religious family, you know, had to do everything correct. Now
I realized that it's okay to make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Where do you think?
Speaker 5 (49:33):
Yeah, I think the thing I accused myself of was
being on the shy side. And even though I was
an athlete in high school, in college, I was in
sports and did well so many other cases, if I
was just a little more forward with what I was
really thinking about in certain situations.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
If I didn't just pay him up and not say anything.
Speaker 5 (49:52):
So I think I missed a lot of opportunities by
not just being a little more open when I'm with people.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And now he's completely open. No, he walks down the
hall and talks to all the ladies and all the
guys were before he used to be very you know,
very quiet and keep to himself.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Oh my gosh, what did I create.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
No, it's beasure though, when you do talk to the people.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Like the man across the way, he's in his middle
nineties and he had cancer and we asked him about
it the last time I saw him, and this time
he had a.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Even bigger patch on his head and I said, what's
happened this time?
Speaker 5 (50:33):
He said, oh, they're still exploring, trying to find where
is it coming from and what's the next step.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
I said, well, I hope you're doing well. But he
just really smiled just because you know, I stup and
talked to him.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
That was just one real quick thing that we noticed
here is that people think they have to always say
something positive, but really people feel felt if you say
you look like you've had a bad night.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Even if you don't know that person, and they feel
so loved that you'll see them almost following you.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Down the hallway. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
And if you know, if people that are set that
are they're selling you know, the idea of over fifty
five communities. I could just learn these few little tips
and then you know, just kind of start using it
amongst people there literally have a very vibrant community.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
Yeah. Yeah, you know. Well, I'll just say one last
thing about you know, caring and caregiving, which is so
I have this book that I produce for family caregivers
called The Caregiving Navigator. So it's literally for spouses and
for adult children taking care of their older ones as
(51:56):
they get older, but more broadly, as the more I've
explored this whole area, you know, it it's about how
we care for each other on our society, and that's
something that we don't really think about, but it's it's
that that sentiment of caring that that goes so much
further than just the physical or you know, caring for
(52:21):
eating and you know, the physical what they call, you know,
activities of daily living. You know, it's you know, and
it's it's something that I think is really important, and
I think that is again we're going to our you know,
issue with sort of ageism of older people. It's even
(52:43):
it's as important all the way through life, you know,
and I think that you guys have shown that and
caring for each other. So I really appreciate your conversation
about that.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well, we really appreciate you, and we appreciate you actually
bringing all these shoes to light. There aren't many programs
there many people talking about this that help us to
define life after forty five.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, so that might be your next book.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Okay, so listen, if people have questions or want to
reach you, what's the best way to reach you, guys?
Is it you have emails or social media or what's
what's the best way to if they have questions they
want to follow you?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Well, we both have gmails, so it's doctor Diane O
four at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (53:39):
Yeah, but people should know it's and Diane with two Yes,
I got.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
You're so good.
Speaker 5 (53:45):
Yes, yeah, and I also have similar accounts, but I
think going on through Diane, she would benefit from having
that flow go through her.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
So I don't have it for do you share and
just say one step on my part not sitting it somewhere.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Okay, yes, so I do have a website. It's had
doctor Diane. Well no, let's do this one word power
well yeah, word power powerpress dot com.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Okay, good. You can learn more about your book and
I've got all your other works. And then, as I
said before, if they go to my website forty five
forward dot org, you'll it'll take you to a list
of all my podcasts and yours will be near the top,
and people can read a little bit more about you
in your background and so forth.
Speaker 5 (54:33):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
And also for those who want to listen you know
this podcast, who you know, they can, we can pass
it along and they can listen to it. They can
listen to it, and they can also watch it on YouTube.
So there's a YouTube channel forty five forward dot org
YouTube channel. So again, thank you so much, folks, people,
(55:00):
and also send me questions and comments to Ron at
forty five forward dot org. And so until the next time, folks,
keep moving forward. Forty five Forward
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