September 13, 2025 • 55 mins
A breathtaking true love story that survived ghettos, Bergen-Belsen, seven years of wartime separation, and a near-impossible reunion. Ron talks with Jan—author of To Enduring Love—about her parents, Alexander and Ilona, who met in 1930s Budapest, were torn apart by World War II, and built a hopeful new life in America. (Contains WWII/Holocaust references.)
What you’ll hear
• Budapest meet-cute: an orchestra musician and a coat-check girl who fell in love
• A cinematic separation at a train station—and a promise to reunite
• Cuba, the war, ghettos, and Bergen-Belsen; faith, grit, and survival
• The reunion, immigration to Queens, and the values that shaped a family: hope, education, service
• Jan’s own journey—FAA public service, teaching, and the life formula: Work × Effort = Results
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
What you’ll hear
• Budapest meet-cute: an orchestra musician and a coat-check girl who fell in love
• A cinematic separation at a train station—and a promise to reunite
• Cuba, the war, ghettos, and Bergen-Belsen; faith, grit, and survival
• The reunion, immigration to Queens, and the values that shaped a family: hope, education, service
• Jan’s own journey—FAA public service, teaching, and the life formula: Work × Effort = Results
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/45-forward--6550893/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mean though, it was like I couldn't stop shaking. I couldn't,
you know, I couldn't think, I couldn't. It was just
it was just so horrible. And I said to my mother,
I can't go on. I just can't. I can't go
on like this. I just can't. And she I never
saw her get angry, but she got really angry this
(00:21):
time with me, and she was like amazing, and she said,
you can't go on. How do you think I felt
when I was in Bergenbills. How do you think that
I managed to get up to go on? You know?
I mean? And then she opened up a little bit
about what it would had occurred, and it really made
(00:48):
me realize that you can do anything that you put
your mind to, that if you believe that you can, you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Will Welcome everyone to forty five Forward. I'm your host
Ron Rowell. Today's episode, I'm talking with jan Hennick, who
is the author of To Enduring Love, which is indeed
love story, and it's an unusual one. It's about her parents,
who Alexander and Ilona, who grew up in Hungary during
(01:23):
the nineteen thirties just before the outbreak of the war.
The two of them met, fell in love, got married,
had a quick honeymoon, and then they were separated for years.
They came back together sort of almost miraculously. And so
this is Jan's story about how this happened, but not
only that, about how it happened, how they came to America,
(01:45):
but what the influence has been on her, you know,
and her shaping her views of life, even thinking back
many decades. So with all that, let me bring in
our guests, Jane Hennick. Jan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much. Ron. I really appreciate the introduction,
and I'm ready to answer the questions you have.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I'm happy to have you, and you know, this
is a great story. So let's start, you know, with
a little bit of drama. I mean, we'll get back
to your prologue about your you know, your later in
life with your dad, but let's go back to that
that you know, rather almost cinematic moment where your parents
(02:30):
had to separate, you know, or they chose to separate.
But so so let's talk a little bit about how
they met and then how they had to separate at
the train station Switzerland.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
One of the things that I thought was really interesting
was when they met. They met at a movie theater
where they both worked. My father was part of an
orchestra and it was like a radio city type situation
and they would do like a floor shadow, yes in Budapest,
(03:02):
and it was the form. It was the foremost in Budapest. Uh,
the rich, the forum, it was cooled and uh. My
mother was a coton hatchet girl. So this this was
her first job out of high school and she was
(03:25):
really excited. I mean, up to that point she had
assisted my grandmother in sewing dresses and in those days
they did handmade stuff, so they she was like a
finisher for my grandmother who was an excellent seamstress. So
they met and when what I found incredible was that
(03:48):
she didn't like it. She it was just like out
of a Jane Austen, like pride and prejudice, and so
she didn't like him because she thought he was too
egotistical and too caught up with himself. He was self centered,
and he came on to her and that's the best
(04:11):
way he could describe it, like do you want to
give me a kiss? It's my birthday. And she was
like she was never had any experiences in love or
anything like that she had lived with her grand with
my grandmother, her mother for all her life, and this
was her first job. She was twenty at the time,
(04:34):
I mean actually nineteen when she was at the time
that she met him. She was just so taken a
blown away that she thought he was incredible in terms
of his nerve.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It was about nineteen thirty eight, is when.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, nineteen thirty eight, the summer of thirty eight, okay,
And he saw that she was beautif and everybody felt that,
you know, other people agreed with them, you know, and
whether they were in the orchestra or you know, other
people that she was really pretty and it was amazing.
(05:16):
He wanted he wanted to be with us. I keep,
you know, visual right. So there was somebody else who
was courting her who was not Jewish, and it was Mikolaschfender.
My thing was that that she figured that she had
to marry Jewish. I mean, she wasn't raised religiously, but
(05:41):
she knew that she had to marry Jewish. I mean
there were things that she went to synagogue and my
grandmother looked candles or whatever. She was not necessarily what
you would call religious, but she wanted to marry Jewish
and so she went out with him when he asked
her what she was and sure, and it was so
(06:01):
great that, you know, they got to know each other.
So from thinking that he was an egotistical, self centered person,
she found him to be really caring and then they
fell in love. And part of that love was that
they could quote the most romantic poet, Chandor Petrofi who
(06:27):
was in nineteenth century poet who was the most romantic poet,
and to her dying day, she could quote him. Wow,
and you know, it was truly amazing. So she went
from not liking him to actually falling in love.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So when he asked her to marry him, she of course,
and that was like six months later.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
The drama is you know, and also at the time,
you know, I remember, you know, when I look at
all these you know, war movies, you know, I have
to say, I'm emotionally touched by the separation, you know,
and people you don't know what's going to happen? Are
you going to see this person again? So they get married,
(07:14):
but they decided to go to get married in Switzerland, right,
and they go to burn Is that right?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
No, they married in Hungary. And then yes, they married
in Hungary and then they went back to their jobs
and she went back to her mother and he went
back to his mother, and that's where he lived and
she lived with her mother because in those days they
didn't have like separate apartments and all this other stuff,
(07:45):
and they had no money because he was a musician
and just earning barely a lot to keep himself alive.
So his brother Jenner, who I mentioned in the book,
came to her and said, Alex wants to meet you
(08:07):
in Switzerland because he has a gig as a musician
and he wants you to meet in the train station.
And that's where she learns that he's going to Switzerland
and he has a ticket for her, so he says,
meet me in Switzerland. They have to be there, and
(08:28):
so that is that is where they first, you know,
learned to be with each other. And they have a
wonderful week in Switzerland. The sad part is that he
had he realizes he can't go back to Hungary because
(08:50):
they are drafting people. And when he tried to talk
to her about the issues of what is happening in
the world, she wanted to just be romantic and she
didn't want to think about reality. She was just happy
and that she did not having had a father in
(09:11):
the house. She was just basically living from day to
day in this like Hollywood fairy tale that she thought
were just romance. And then they had this beautiful honeymoon
and then he tells her the last day that he's
(09:31):
not going back and that she should come with him,
and she said, I haven't told my mother, And he said,
I told you to tell your mother, and she said, well,
you didn't tell your mother either.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But to the family wasn't. Neither family was at the wedding. Then,
you know, when they.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Got married, that's right, it's not like in today's world.
You know, they were not. And the whole point is
they were married civilly. It was not a religious wedding.
It was married. They were married civilly.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So then they so he goes off, you know, and
he goes, well.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
The whole point is they have the first fight. They
have a fight all day long, and then they're exhausted
after they've been fighting because he's he has a visa
to Cuba and he doesn't have a visa for her.
So he said that when he gets ownership, he'll wire
(10:36):
his great uncle Arthur, and he'll get he'll definitely give
her a visa, and she wants to know why he
wouldn't have think about that or thought about that initially.
So there was this whole drama. And then he said,
I told you to tell your mother, and she said, well,
I didn't tell my mother. And there are all sorts
(10:59):
of reasons for that, and among them that she was
part of her mother's ability to maintain the apartment, so
you know, she was bringing in some money and she
was afraid to tell her mother. She said. So he said,
(11:20):
you know, you can write, and she said, I can't write.
I have to tell my mother in person. So that
was really rather the part.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So then you describe the story and they separate for years.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Seven years to be exact. They make an agreement that
he's going to work and he's going to bring her
out with her mother. The whole point is that Cuba
changes their politics. And he arrived in Cuba in February
of nineteen thirty nine. Remember they were married in January.
(12:02):
He arrives in February. When he arrived, I mean, he
was very lucky because by May, just a few months later,
the Saint Louis was turned back. The Saint Louis was
the ship with over nine hundred and fifty Jewish survivors
of the concentration camps that were allowed act and you know,
(12:25):
paid their way out or whatever, and they were returned
because nobody, not Cuba, not the US, not Canada, not anyone.
The captain of the ship sailed up and down the
coast before he returned to Germany.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So now they're separated, and they do sort of well,
I would say, almost braculously managed to meet up after
the war.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
She just continues working. And then nineteen forty one the
mail is cut off because Hungary was considered part of
the Access Powers and they decided with Germany, and so
after that there was no communication. So he didn't even
(13:19):
know that its mother had passed, that she had died
of diabetes, and obviously during the war that there was
no medication because things were not like today. A lot
of people died without medicine, and so she couldn't get mad.
(13:40):
So she went back and she had to face her mother,
and she had to face his mother. His mother was
just so worried about him, and she was just, you know,
she was happy that he had gotten out.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But he does make it to the US and.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He is in the army now right, so during you know,
once this is before Pearl Harbor, once the the things
are problematic. They take the US takes in immigrants who
(14:19):
are willing to fight, and you'd have to stint up
for the draft. So here he escapes Hungary because he
doesn't want to be in the draft. But there's a
reason he doesn't want to be in the draft. It's
not because he's afraid he's it's because he doesn't want
(14:39):
to fight for the wrong side. But he believes in them.
And that's true because you could see all the stuff
that he does. And while there was discrimination, and I
wouldn't say there isn't any, but there was lots of
discrimination against Jews. He felt that overall the United States
(15:05):
was a country that offered freedom and he could deal with.
And so I go into what happened as he was
going through basic training and how he how he got treated,
and whatever happened to the others. But the interesting thing
is how the US soldiers reacted to going overseas. When
(15:30):
he they wanted to know why he wasn't scared, and
he said because he believed in God, and he believed
that what God was would ordain would be what happens.
So he comforted them and so they went from being
very very antagonistic to being friends. And remember soldiers band
(15:55):
of brothers, so that you know, that really showed through
and it didn't matter what your background was. When you're
in a fox, you want your brother.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Right right. So meanwhile, though, back in Hungary, his wife
unfortunately ends up in a concentration camp, right.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yes, yeah, so she was first, you know, slowly the
Germans that when they came in, they came in in
March of nineteen forty four in Hungary and they immediately
enacted you know, laws and they put them put Jews
(16:41):
in ghettos and stuff. And you know, she had she
met a lot of historical figures because she met Wallenburg,
not personally, but she saw it him and he was
trying to do a Swedish diplomat who was trying to
get Jews. You know, I'm getting what's called the shoots pots.
(17:02):
And I write all that she works in a in
a factory for the Nazis because they took over everything,
and she was working a garment factory for soldiers uniforms Anyway,
the bottom line is that she was taken I around
(17:25):
November uh to bergen Belsen, and there I described I
described the the horrible conditions under which she was taken
along with all the other people. You know, they didn't
understand what was happening to them because no one could
(17:48):
leave that this was what was happening. So it was
really hormendous. I just don't even know how people survived
the concentration.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I want to just backtrack a little bit and just
ask you, like, because when people read the book, it
reads sort of like a novel. So how did you
piece together all this information?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well? I did a lot of clothing. So I started
my parents' marriage certificate and I checked into all of that,
and then I went on to find out what was happening. Now,
my father had talked about the Battle of the Bulge,
and my brother remembers all of that. But you know,
(18:38):
when we were growing up, it was like not in
our foremost mind as Americans and we were both born here,
we were worried about ourselves. We were worrying about our future,
you know. I mean, as you know, kids are rather selfish,
(19:00):
you know, and you know, we heard all these stories
and you know, for instance, one of the values that
my father said is I'm giving you all my time,
and that's the greatest present of all, you know, So
I said, my brother and I looked at each other.
My brother's older and you know, he he he, and
(19:24):
I looked at each other and said, that's a that's
a real present time. But now in registers it is
the greatest present because if you can understand that there's
a finite time in everybody's life that they're alive, and
if they give you time, it was that's the most
(19:47):
amazing present, because there's no present that could equal that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So they came to eventually to a historian in Queensland,
New York. But but to your point, now, I think
it's you know, people talk about, you know, doing memoirs
and people talk about you know, what you're talking about
is sort of what's often considered like you know, a
legacy or ethical will, where it's like, you know, yeah,
(20:14):
you can give your children your assets, but what you're
talking about is his. You know who they were, you know,
and and so you it took you quite a while
to do this. I think you did it. You know,
you had the time and the energy and retirement from
your other job to do it, but your decision to
(20:34):
when you decided to do and why you decided to
do it this way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Well, I first heard the story when my cousin's husband
asked my parents how they met up after World War
Two because he knew that she was in a conservation
camp and he also knew that my father was an
American soldier. So when he talked about how they actually
met up after the war, I mean, he said, this
(21:01):
is a Hollywood movie. So I was fourteen at the time,
and I thought to myself, I was a good writer,
and you know, I had always won awards for writing
and things like that. But I was thinking about it
and I said to myself, someday, I'm I'm going to
write this. But life intervened. I had three major medical
(21:24):
crises as the war. As the time passed, my parents
also had medical crises. I had a family, and my husband,
my first husband, had a medical crisis that you know,
it really it all took its toll, and I always
(21:45):
tried to do my very best. I knew I had
to work to get ahead, to have something, to move
into the middle class, because I would say we were
not in the middle class. Well, we owned the home.
It was rented out to others, you know, so at
(22:06):
you know, help a mortgage.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well, the the issue was that we really needed to
be there for each other. And uh, I think I
think we were. And I finally, finally, I have to
say that I since fourteen, I used to collect stories
(22:31):
and you know, write little notes and whatever. But no, no,
nothing to sit down and therefore write it. When I retired,
and that was a couple of years ago, I decided
that I have to do this now. And that's how
it worked out.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, and you uh, you know what, I think We're
going to just take a quick break. We'll use this.
It's a good segue to go back to part two.
So folks, don't go away. We have much more with
jan Hennick and her book to Enduring Love about her
two parents and how they came to America. So don't away,
(23:13):
We'll be right back. Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
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(23:39):
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Speaker 2 (24:00):
Welcome back, folks to forty five Forward Ron Rowell. We're
talking with Jan Hennick about her book two Enduring Love.
Before the break, we were talking about how she came
to write the book after thinking about it for many years,
and so I wanted to just ask you. I know, Jen,
that you would opportunity to do it a different way,
(24:22):
but I have your mother kind of talk about her
experience in the concentration camp, but you decided instead you
wanted to do it your way. So explain that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Well, I really wanted to make sure that my father's
role was clear, and I think that my mother would
have survived the wassn't for my father. He was always
able to be counted on. So without giving the book,
whatever he did, people in his unit felt that he
(24:57):
didn't find her in bergen Belsen because there were three
trains out of Belson suit Raisin Seat, which was another
camp which was north, and each train was liberated except
for the third train that she was on that was
liberated by So the first two were liberated by the
(25:22):
Americans or the British, and you know, or I should
say the Allies. But the key is that the third
train was my mother had told me that the train
was strafed and she didn't know who had strafed it
or whatever. But the point is that it was bombarded
(25:46):
and she spaw and she didn't know how she survived,
and she didn't know how she got into this field.
But she was in a field looking at a farmhouse,
thinking of how hungry and thirsty and and and just
didn't know how to be and she was picked up
by the Russians. She doesn't remember anything beyond looking at
(26:09):
the farmhouse and thinking to their self that you know,
I needed I need to be there, and they took
it to the Russian hospital. So the fact is that
my father needed to find a way to although the
Russians were, he needed to find a way to get
(26:31):
to the Russian side. And I say sorry because that
there were all sorts of concerns and that's all part
its story.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right, So they meet up again, and so so you
wanted to tell your father's story too, that you didn't
want it to just be about your mother, and you know,
and her basically telling the story of the concentration camp.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Saved her from the Russian hospital. He had suffered a
stroke and in the hospital, I mean not in the hospital.
They were taken care of her in the hospital, but
it was a field hospital. So she had to get
out of there because I don't think that she would
have survived.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Okay, okay, So let's let's jump off ahead a little bit.
People can read to fill in the pages of the
book that they should buy the book on Amazon, and
we'll tell about that later. But essentially, let's let's switch
a little bit. So now you you know, your parents
come to America. They are in a story of Queens
and Long Island, well the city part of Long Island.
(27:40):
And what I found about interesting about the book too,
and you're telling me about it is, you know, it's
it's an interesting immigrants story, you know, about about how
immigrants came together after the war. You know. Interestingly, my
grandparents met in Brooklyn. My father's mother was from Hungary
(28:04):
and my grandfather was from Mexico, and it was you know,
it was and I think actually Queens, even today, these
areas are among the most diverse in the country. So
tell us about so you're growing up with your parents
and how they kind of shaped you and what you
learned from them. Looking back now.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well it was so. I think I told you I
had a wonderful childhood, not because I had everything, but
most of all, there was always food on the table,
and I knew I was loved. I mean, no matter
how hard parents work. And my mother was a housewife
and because she was paralyzed on her left side, that
(28:52):
she wouldn't work because nobody would give her a job.
The issue with my father was that he was a
musician and he found that he couldn't help steady work.
In addition to which he got mortageous when he realized
that he didn't have steady work and it wasn't worth
(29:15):
it to hang around the unions or waiting to be called,
so he went to work in a factory. I think
that one of the things that I loved about my
childhood was the diversity. And I could think of all
(29:36):
the names I still recall, house by house, all the
names everybody from Hungarian and Irish and Italian and Hungarian
they say Marian or whatever Greek you name it. House
by house, all of side by side, and one of
(29:59):
the things is that everybody, or almost everybody, had been
a soldier, so we all we all put a flag
every single holiday. The flag was definitely out and uh
one of one of the nice things was that we
played soldier. Everybody had uniforms, so we all borrowed our
(30:24):
our parents' uniforms, I mean our father's for the most
and so we played soldiers. So it was it was
really great and I always appreciate the fact that I
grew up like that. One of the things about my
parents was that they were very proud to be Americans,
(30:44):
and they they didn't take it for granted. They definitely
uh wanted to reflect to us, to my brother and myself,
how great it was. So that it starts with my
brother being named George, after George Washington. My father felt
(31:07):
that George Washington was the first person in his life
actually who actually he was a Mason, and he actually
realized that it was terribly important to have freedom of
religion and that they should all be able to practice
the way you wanted to practice religion. So he named
(31:30):
him George, and he felt that if he would be
as honest as George was despite the fact that that
that was a made up story by Parson Williams about
his chip chopping down the cherry tree. But that really
exemplified his life because he really was an honest and
(31:51):
caring human being. So, I mean, I watch all of
the different takes on George Washington, and I think I
think that he would have he would be a polled
at some of the the things that were said about him,
but in essence, what he felt was set to the
(32:15):
Truro Synagogue. He wrote a letter to them and that's
on the wall of the Turo Synagogue about freedom of religion,
a lot of other values that my father exemplified. People
asked he was on the ship, aren't you fraid or whatever,
(32:37):
and he had said, well, I believe in God and
I believe that God will do whatever is right. I mean,
I mean that faith. So he didn't worry about anything.
And he said there are no Europes. He said, they
are only people who do the right thing when called upon.
(32:57):
So I really really always appreciated his take on heroes
because no one starts out saying, oh, I'm going to
be a hero. And a lot of people died too
many and it was a horrible war, but they fought
for some some real reason and there was a real
(33:22):
view that you know, when they died, there was there
was no The sadness was mitigated by the fact that
they they were fighting for a real course and that
was freedom. So that was that was that my mother
felt that she said to me, money is power, and
(33:46):
I thought about that. She felt that I wasted my
money that I earned. But I felt that if it
made somebody happy, I thought that was the right to do.
If you cared about somebody and you use your money
(34:08):
to uh to do the right thing, and why say
right thing? Uh? It was it was different. But she
had a view that money is power because not having
had the money, she couldn't get out of hungry and
she had to wait and while my father was trying
(34:29):
to work and earn money to bring her and her
mother out. So that was what what what they said.
But one of the things that I what I always
said that I thought my father did great, uh, is
(34:49):
that he would take us every week somewhere else, to
the Statue of Liberty, to uh to the parks. He
was even took us to the u N So I
mean it was at that time there was great hope
for the u N. The fact that it was a
(35:11):
place to speak and to be able to resolve differences
was extremely hopeful. And uh, you know it was he
instilled in us, and I know I can talk for
I can speak for my brother that he instilled in
us and understanding that America was great. I mean it
(35:35):
really really was great because they came from a place
where things were not great, especially for Jews, I mean
other people too, for Jews especially and uh, given all
of that stuff, I mean it's it's it's you know,
horrifying about anti Semitism. Uh that it's just continuing to
(35:59):
rear it's ugly head, and it's you see a lot
of it. I didn't. I saw a lot of it
in my childhood. I didn't pay attention to it because
it wasn't it wasn't front and center until after the
(36:21):
Kennedy assassination and then went with the Vietnam War and
the other assassinations. A certain level of hopelessness and to
my view of things, ah, I had gone to I
was in the bridal party for my friend who was
(36:43):
who was having a rainbow wedding, and she was when
I have a rainbow wedding. You know, you're you're in
different colors, so you each each two people have different
color dresses. So it doesn't mean rainbow like we have
(37:03):
rainbow now. It meant that you you get together and
it was like a brotherhood. It was so it was
on the steps of the Immaculate Conception the church. Uh.
And they mean, I'll never forget that photograph that they
(37:24):
took two sisters were getting married, that they married at
the same time, and then they had this rainbow wedding,
you know, because everybody was on the steps, uh, in
different colored gowns. But at the time that I went,
they had a white power uh uh. You know they've
(37:48):
had a white power uh uh what would you call that?
A rally? Rally? A rally? And they they really they
said who's Mark read he's Jewish? Who's this? And and
you know when I saw people at that rally, because
(38:12):
I had to pass the rally to get to the church,
it was it was very frightening.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, I mean I think that, you know, these things continue,
the you know, the challenges continue. But I think that
but I think that your parents, you know, gifted you
values that were sort of a combination of both you know,
faith and practicality. So your mother talked about money, and
(38:42):
I think you mentioned me that your father sort of
like my parents, like I could think a lot of immigrants.
I think your father mentioned that. I think he gave
this to you. I think as mentioned in your story
about your your yearbook. Yeah, man's greatest tool and strongest
weapon is knowledge. And I remember my parents saying to me,
(39:03):
you know, in terms of my education, that you know
that you know, an education is something no one can
take away from you. So that was the importance of
education was really paramount. And I think that you know,
it continues to be and I think recognizing that this
is for a lot of immigrant parents, you know, an
important lesson that that's how you get ahead, you know,
(39:26):
that's it's important in terms of getting the life skills
you need. So it's not so it is faith, but
it's but it's also hard work in education.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Definitely. I couldn't couldn't. I couldn't agree with you moren
on this subject. My father always stated that he needed
to see us successful and the only way to see
us successful was for us to get education. And I
(39:58):
always love that saying he came up with for my brother.
Man's greatest tool and strongest weapon is knowledge. Right, he
really could see beyond what was at the current time
and could see in the future. But he also gave
(40:20):
us a lot of hope, as in my did my
mother because she was concerned about hope as the future.
My mother said about hope that when she felt that
she saw the Statue of Liberty, it gave her tremendous
hope because liberty, that freedom, the whole idea that you
(40:43):
you can do whatever you wanted to do within reason,
you know. But the point is that that was tremendous
for her, and I really believe that she really looked
(41:05):
at it as a real possibility. And when we were
at the World's Fair, and we went to the World's
Fair in nineteen sixty four, one of the themes, I
guess the major theme was this big, bright, beautiful tomorrow. Yeah,
(41:27):
and you know, everybody followed that theme. And there was
such hope in the world. There was amazing the amount
of hope that there was. I think, to a certain extent,
we're there again where we have tremendous hope. After we
(41:50):
had a tremendous a strong time, a long time of
issues and the whole idea of hope, yeah, for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, I think that is a very American value, right.
I mean it's it's it's it is hard work and
it's but it also is part of, you know, the
unity that you felt growing up in your neighborhood with
all you know, your diverse neighbors. And I think that
that remains, you know, an iconic American values. You know,
despite our challenges as we get older, you know, we
(42:27):
continue to have hope. And and I think that you know,
in your in your own career, you know, I get
I got a sense, you know, you don't say it directly,
but I sort of implicitly that that your viewing of
your parents in commitment to American its values, you know,
(42:48):
in some way affected your career because you you spent
a lot of like what almost forty years in public service,
right and for the FAA, is that right?
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And then I spo ten in uh teaching, So, I
mean teaching was always my first love. But unfortunately at
the time that I got my license, it was the
first time ever under Lindsay that they didn't hire teachers.
(43:19):
In other words, I was student teaching John Dewey High School,
and they said, you know, we'd love to hire you,
but we can't. So I took the first job I
could get, and that was a type is in a
typing pool. And my point was just try and do
(43:42):
the best you could, and you get to the forefront
by just trying. And I think what you're thinking of
is that in nineteen eighty three, Elizabeth Dole came and
took a tour of the fa where I worked, and
(44:06):
she she I was in HR Human Resources and I
I heard her say, where are the women manages? You know?
Doles Secretary of Transportation.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Secretary of Transportation at the time. Yeah. So this was
during the reign.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Years, right right, right, But she used to be a
Democrat in other words, you know, I looked her up
when I thought about her, because I mean, some of
her ideas are very much along the lines of the Democrat.
But it was a Reagan administration that gave her the
(44:46):
opportunity to be Secretary Intation. And I was so happy
that she had come. And she said, I'm not going
to promote women because they're women. I'm going to promote
qualified women. And she said, if you can show that
you have qualifications, that's fine. I started out I was
(45:13):
the only woman in the class. For FAA. It was
going to be the first class of Embry Riddle and
Long Island University working together. So Emvery Riddle is an
aeronautical university, and of course Long Island University CW POST
(45:34):
is the university. So I finished. I was the only
one who finished, only one of the women who finished.
I started out being the only one, and there was
no one who joined us over the course of five years,
and I was given an extra year to present. Originally
(45:57):
they were asking for a dissertation, and then they allowed
people to take comprehensive exams. And for those who wanted
to take comprehensive exams, which I was, I didn't have
time to at that point. I had been a manager
(46:19):
and I was on these various projects and traveling, and
I took the comprehensive exams and got my diploma. But
aside from all that, she established certain programs, and among
those programs were the Women's Executive Leadership. And she thought
(46:42):
that she looked at herself and she felt that she
really tried very hard. She's top of her class, which
is what I was the graduate. She really believed in
women being qualified. I mean not just because you're a woman.
(47:03):
You know, doesn't it doesn't really matter. But the point
was that thinking about the mindset was an important point
for her, and I headed up the first women's executive
leadership program for my area and a lot of talented
(47:28):
women came through that. What I was known for was
of and if you look up my name in the
f A annuals I Suspected Unimproved Parts Team, which was
a major program about getting unapproved parts for aircraft. So
(47:51):
you know, when you don't when when something goes wrong
you need a part and you don't go onto steers
to get a part, you know, whether it's a hose
or small hose or something major FETO too. I mean,
it was like you really don't, So, I mean what
you really needed to do is to make sure that
(48:13):
the people getting the parts and replacing the ports were
qualified and the part had Every part has a birth certificate,
so it's born right.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
These are airplane parts, right? Is that an airplane right?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah? Yeah, So let me just say that for people.
If you go to my website forty five forward dot org,
you can see that we listened to the episode and
there's a little bit of bio about Jans. You can
be a little bit more about her bio there if
you want to fill in the in the some of
the background. So I think that you know you so
(48:55):
you carried on me even though you obviously weren't in
the military. But you you know, you know, I hear
in your voice you're carrying on your legacy your parents
through service. You don't need to be, you know, a soldier,
but your sense of serving and teaching and also listen,
having safe planes is a big part of our country.
(49:17):
So you know, I think that those values of you know,
sort of practicality, but also attention to you know, what's
the right thing to do. Any any last thoughts on
how you look at what how your parents help build
you in terms of your values, and I have to
(49:38):
say your resilience, you know, your your sense of purpose
and resilience.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
The most important thing is I think that my parents
taught me not to judge a book by the bis cover.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Nice okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
So yeah, So when people try to put you in
category or is like jew woman whatever, my parents always said,
it's not who you are, but what you do. Yeah,
And so I've always believed in work. Time's effort equals results,
(50:17):
and that was the formula that I lived. But I
tried to explain both in my work life and in
my teaching that that was the formula that led to success.
I honestly felt that if you followed that, you'd be
(50:37):
very successful.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, and you did that in spite of it, along
with all your challenges that you you've had some significant challenges.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Right well, I mean I and that really I really
owe to my mother because when I was going to
give up, because I had been very sick a number
of times, and when I got out of the hospital
one time, they had because I used to be in
the hospital a lot, but I couldn't miss work, so
(51:12):
they would fill me, pomp me full of cortisone. And
this one time, I mean, it was like I couldn't
stop shaking. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't think, I couldn't.
It was just it was just so horrible. And I
said to my mother, I can't go on. I just can't.
I can't go on like this. I just can't. And
(51:35):
she I never saw her get angry, but she got
really angry this time with me, and she was like amazing,
and she said, you can't go on? How do you
think I felt when I was in Bergen Bills? How
do you think that I managed to get to go on?
(51:57):
You know? I mean? And then she opened up a
little bit about what it would had occurred, and it
really made me realize that you can do anything that
you put your mind to, that if you believe that
you can, you will. And as bad as I felt,
(52:21):
and I felt really horrible, uh I, And and I
really didn't know how I would go on, but my
mother shocked me into into believing this is not the
way to be, and I overcame them.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Yeah, I'm just thinking back to what you said earlier,
which is, you know, your sense of both your parents'
courage is you know, your ordinary people, you know, doing extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Things, right, yes.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, yeah, Well I want to thank you for a
terrific conversation, Jan, very thought provoking. I loved the overall
story of both your parents and you and and your
determination to write it. Uh, you know, because I think
you know these are these are the stories, ordinary stories
(53:12):
that that us ordinary people need to read for inspiration.
So so let me just say, if people have comments
or questions for you, how did they get in touch?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
With you, Jan Janhinnick, Yes, Janhinnick at gmail dot com.
I'll be glad to answer any questions you have or
whatever you want me to comment on. Uh, you can
get my book on Amazon dot com. You can download
(53:44):
it to as a as a h what is the book? Right?
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah? And I noticed that when I went to the site,
there's a there's a sample you can people can actually
download a sample from the from.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Your absolutely absolutely you know. I meant to tell you.
I felt I was channeling my parents when I wrote it,
because you had asked me about how I wrote it,
and I felt like every time I was writing one
person's segment like my mother's for my father's, I felt
(54:18):
I didn't. I wasn't at a loss for words. I
just was able to write smoothly. So I felt I
was channeling a different parent at a different talk.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Wow. Interesting, nice, nice, Okay, well, folks, again, thanks so
much Jan for a great conversation. Thank you, Ron, and
once again, if you want to get in touch with me,
I'm Ron at forty five forward dot org and you
(54:53):
can see a full archive of my shows. And for
the people miss to our conversation, actually today it's they
can always see it by going to forty five forward
dot Oregon, part of my archive of all my shows.
So if you again us as we go forward with
(55:16):
this inspiration from Jen until the next time, keep moving forward.
Forty five Forward
Speaker 1 (55:27):
M.
Mean though, it was like I couldn't stop shaking. I couldn't,
you know, I couldn't think, I couldn't. It was just
it was just so horrible. And I said to my mother,
I can't go on. I just can't. I can't go
on like this. I just can't. And she I never
saw her get angry, but she got really angry this
(00:21):
time with me, and she was like amazing, and she said,
you can't go on. How do you think I felt
when I was in Bergenbills. How do you think that
I managed to get up to go on? You know?
I mean? And then she opened up a little bit
about what it would had occurred, and it really made
(00:48):
me realize that you can do anything that you put
your mind to, that if you believe that you can, you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Will Welcome everyone to forty five Forward. I'm your host
Ron Rowell. Today's episode, I'm talking with jan Hennick, who
is the author of To Enduring Love, which is indeed
love story, and it's an unusual one. It's about her parents,
who Alexander and Ilona, who grew up in Hungary during
(01:23):
the nineteen thirties just before the outbreak of the war.
The two of them met, fell in love, got married,
had a quick honeymoon, and then they were separated for years.
They came back together sort of almost miraculously. And so
this is Jan's story about how this happened, but not
only that, about how it happened, how they came to America,
(01:45):
but what the influence has been on her, you know,
and her shaping her views of life, even thinking back
many decades. So with all that, let me bring in
our guests, Jane Hennick. Jan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much. Ron. I really appreciate the introduction,
and I'm ready to answer the questions you have.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I'm happy to have you, and you know, this
is a great story. So let's start, you know, with
a little bit of drama. I mean, we'll get back
to your prologue about your you know, your later in
life with your dad, but let's go back to that
that you know, rather almost cinematic moment where your parents
(02:30):
had to separate, you know, or they chose to separate.
But so so let's talk a little bit about how
they met and then how they had to separate at
the train station Switzerland.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
One of the things that I thought was really interesting
was when they met. They met at a movie theater
where they both worked. My father was part of an
orchestra and it was like a radio city type situation
and they would do like a floor shadow, yes in Budapest,
(03:02):
and it was the form. It was the foremost in Budapest. Uh,
the rich, the forum, it was cooled and uh. My
mother was a coton hatchet girl. So this this was
her first job out of high school and she was
(03:25):
really excited. I mean, up to that point she had
assisted my grandmother in sewing dresses and in those days
they did handmade stuff, so they she was like a
finisher for my grandmother who was an excellent seamstress. So
they met and when what I found incredible was that
(03:48):
she didn't like it. She it was just like out
of a Jane Austen, like pride and prejudice, and so
she didn't like him because she thought he was too
egotistical and too caught up with himself. He was self centered,
and he came on to her and that's the best
(04:11):
way he could describe it, like do you want to
give me a kiss? It's my birthday. And she was
like she was never had any experiences in love or
anything like that she had lived with her grand with
my grandmother, her mother for all her life, and this
was her first job. She was twenty at the time,
(04:34):
I mean actually nineteen when she was at the time
that she met him. She was just so taken a
blown away that she thought he was incredible in terms
of his nerve.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It was about nineteen thirty eight, is when.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, nineteen thirty eight, the summer of thirty eight, okay,
And he saw that she was beautif and everybody felt that,
you know, other people agreed with them, you know, and
whether they were in the orchestra or you know, other
people that she was really pretty and it was amazing.
(05:16):
He wanted he wanted to be with us. I keep,
you know, visual right. So there was somebody else who
was courting her who was not Jewish, and it was Mikolaschfender.
My thing was that that she figured that she had
to marry Jewish. I mean, she wasn't raised religiously, but
(05:41):
she knew that she had to marry Jewish. I mean
there were things that she went to synagogue and my
grandmother looked candles or whatever. She was not necessarily what
you would call religious, but she wanted to marry Jewish
and so she went out with him when he asked
her what she was and sure, and it was so
(06:01):
great that, you know, they got to know each other.
So from thinking that he was an egotistical, self centered person,
she found him to be really caring and then they
fell in love. And part of that love was that
they could quote the most romantic poet, Chandor Petrofi who
(06:27):
was in nineteenth century poet who was the most romantic poet,
and to her dying day, she could quote him. Wow,
and you know, it was truly amazing. So she went
from not liking him to actually falling in love.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So when he asked her to marry him, she of course,
and that was like six months later.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
The drama is you know, and also at the time,
you know, I remember, you know, when I look at
all these you know, war movies, you know, I have
to say, I'm emotionally touched by the separation, you know,
and people you don't know what's going to happen? Are
you going to see this person again? So they get married,
(07:14):
but they decided to go to get married in Switzerland, right,
and they go to burn Is that right?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
No, they married in Hungary. And then yes, they married
in Hungary and then they went back to their jobs
and she went back to her mother and he went
back to his mother, and that's where he lived and
she lived with her mother because in those days they
didn't have like separate apartments and all this other stuff,
(07:45):
and they had no money because he was a musician
and just earning barely a lot to keep himself alive.
So his brother Jenner, who I mentioned in the book,
came to her and said, Alex wants to meet you
(08:07):
in Switzerland because he has a gig as a musician
and he wants you to meet in the train station.
And that's where she learns that he's going to Switzerland
and he has a ticket for her, so he says,
meet me in Switzerland. They have to be there, and
(08:28):
so that is that is where they first, you know,
learned to be with each other. And they have a
wonderful week in Switzerland. The sad part is that he
had he realizes he can't go back to Hungary because
(08:50):
they are drafting people. And when he tried to talk
to her about the issues of what is happening in
the world, she wanted to just be romantic and she
didn't want to think about reality. She was just happy
and that she did not having had a father in
(09:11):
the house. She was just basically living from day to
day in this like Hollywood fairy tale that she thought
were just romance. And then they had this beautiful honeymoon
and then he tells her the last day that he's
(09:31):
not going back and that she should come with him,
and she said, I haven't told my mother, And he said,
I told you to tell your mother, and she said, well,
you didn't tell your mother either.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But to the family wasn't. Neither family was at the wedding. Then,
you know, when they.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Got married, that's right, it's not like in today's world.
You know, they were not. And the whole point is
they were married civilly. It was not a religious wedding.
It was married. They were married civilly.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So then they so he goes off, you know, and
he goes, well.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
The whole point is they have the first fight. They
have a fight all day long, and then they're exhausted
after they've been fighting because he's he has a visa
to Cuba and he doesn't have a visa for her.
So he said that when he gets ownership, he'll wire
(10:36):
his great uncle Arthur, and he'll get he'll definitely give
her a visa, and she wants to know why he
wouldn't have think about that or thought about that initially.
So there was this whole drama. And then he said,
I told you to tell your mother, and she said, well,
I didn't tell my mother. And there are all sorts
(10:59):
of reasons for that, and among them that she was
part of her mother's ability to maintain the apartment, so
you know, she was bringing in some money and she
was afraid to tell her mother. She said. So he said,
(11:20):
you know, you can write, and she said, I can't write.
I have to tell my mother in person. So that
was really rather the part.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So then you describe the story and they separate for years.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Seven years to be exact. They make an agreement that
he's going to work and he's going to bring her
out with her mother. The whole point is that Cuba
changes their politics. And he arrived in Cuba in February
of nineteen thirty nine. Remember they were married in January.
(12:02):
He arrives in February. When he arrived, I mean, he
was very lucky because by May, just a few months later,
the Saint Louis was turned back. The Saint Louis was
the ship with over nine hundred and fifty Jewish survivors
of the concentration camps that were allowed act and you know,
(12:25):
paid their way out or whatever, and they were returned
because nobody, not Cuba, not the US, not Canada, not anyone.
The captain of the ship sailed up and down the
coast before he returned to Germany.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So now they're separated, and they do sort of well,
I would say, almost braculously managed to meet up after
the war.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
She just continues working. And then nineteen forty one the
mail is cut off because Hungary was considered part of
the Access Powers and they decided with Germany, and so
after that there was no communication. So he didn't even
(13:19):
know that its mother had passed, that she had died
of diabetes, and obviously during the war that there was
no medication because things were not like today. A lot
of people died without medicine, and so she couldn't get mad.
(13:40):
So she went back and she had to face her mother,
and she had to face his mother. His mother was
just so worried about him, and she was just, you know,
she was happy that he had gotten out.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But he does make it to the US and.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He is in the army now right, so during you know,
once this is before Pearl Harbor, once the the things
are problematic. They take the US takes in immigrants who
(14:19):
are willing to fight, and you'd have to stint up
for the draft. So here he escapes Hungary because he
doesn't want to be in the draft. But there's a
reason he doesn't want to be in the draft. It's
not because he's afraid he's it's because he doesn't want
(14:39):
to fight for the wrong side. But he believes in them.
And that's true because you could see all the stuff
that he does. And while there was discrimination, and I
wouldn't say there isn't any, but there was lots of
discrimination against Jews. He felt that overall the United States
(15:05):
was a country that offered freedom and he could deal with.
And so I go into what happened as he was
going through basic training and how he how he got treated,
and whatever happened to the others. But the interesting thing
is how the US soldiers reacted to going overseas. When
(15:30):
he they wanted to know why he wasn't scared, and
he said because he believed in God, and he believed
that what God was would ordain would be what happens.
So he comforted them and so they went from being
very very antagonistic to being friends. And remember soldiers band
(15:55):
of brothers, so that you know, that really showed through
and it didn't matter what your background was. When you're
in a fox, you want your brother.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Right right. So meanwhile, though, back in Hungary, his wife
unfortunately ends up in a concentration camp, right.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yes, yeah, so she was first, you know, slowly the
Germans that when they came in, they came in in
March of nineteen forty four in Hungary and they immediately
enacted you know, laws and they put them put Jews
(16:41):
in ghettos and stuff. And you know, she had she
met a lot of historical figures because she met Wallenburg,
not personally, but she saw it him and he was
trying to do a Swedish diplomat who was trying to
get Jews. You know, I'm getting what's called the shoots pots.
(17:02):
And I write all that she works in a in
a factory for the Nazis because they took over everything,
and she was working a garment factory for soldiers uniforms Anyway,
the bottom line is that she was taken I around
(17:25):
November uh to bergen Belsen, and there I described I
described the the horrible conditions under which she was taken
along with all the other people. You know, they didn't
understand what was happening to them because no one could
(17:48):
leave that this was what was happening. So it was
really hormendous. I just don't even know how people survived
the concentration.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I want to just backtrack a little bit and just
ask you, like, because when people read the book, it
reads sort of like a novel. So how did you
piece together all this information?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well? I did a lot of clothing. So I started
my parents' marriage certificate and I checked into all of that,
and then I went on to find out what was happening. Now,
my father had talked about the Battle of the Bulge,
and my brother remembers all of that. But you know,
(18:38):
when we were growing up, it was like not in
our foremost mind as Americans and we were both born here,
we were worried about ourselves. We were worrying about our future,
you know. I mean, as you know, kids are rather selfish,
(19:00):
you know, and you know, we heard all these stories
and you know, for instance, one of the values that
my father said is I'm giving you all my time,
and that's the greatest present of all, you know, So
I said, my brother and I looked at each other.
My brother's older and you know, he he he, and
(19:24):
I looked at each other and said, that's a that's
a real present time. But now in registers it is
the greatest present because if you can understand that there's
a finite time in everybody's life that they're alive, and
if they give you time, it was that's the most
(19:47):
amazing present, because there's no present that could equal that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So they came to eventually to a historian in Queensland,
New York. But but to your point, now, I think
it's you know, people talk about, you know, doing memoirs
and people talk about you know, what you're talking about
is sort of what's often considered like you know, a
legacy or ethical will, where it's like, you know, yeah,
(20:14):
you can give your children your assets, but what you're
talking about is his. You know who they were, you know,
and and so you it took you quite a while
to do this. I think you did it. You know,
you had the time and the energy and retirement from
your other job to do it, but your decision to
(20:34):
when you decided to do and why you decided to
do it this way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Well, I first heard the story when my cousin's husband
asked my parents how they met up after World War
Two because he knew that she was in a conservation
camp and he also knew that my father was an
American soldier. So when he talked about how they actually
met up after the war, I mean, he said, this
(21:01):
is a Hollywood movie. So I was fourteen at the time,
and I thought to myself, I was a good writer,
and you know, I had always won awards for writing
and things like that. But I was thinking about it
and I said to myself, someday, I'm I'm going to
write this. But life intervened. I had three major medical
(21:24):
crises as the war. As the time passed, my parents
also had medical crises. I had a family, and my husband,
my first husband, had a medical crisis that you know,
it really it all took its toll, and I always
(21:45):
tried to do my very best. I knew I had
to work to get ahead, to have something, to move
into the middle class, because I would say we were
not in the middle class. Well, we owned the home.
It was rented out to others, you know, so at
(22:06):
you know, help a mortgage.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well, the the issue was that we really needed to
be there for each other. And uh, I think I
think we were. And I finally, finally, I have to
say that I since fourteen, I used to collect stories
(22:31):
and you know, write little notes and whatever. But no, no,
nothing to sit down and therefore write it. When I retired,
and that was a couple of years ago, I decided
that I have to do this now. And that's how
it worked out.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, and you uh, you know what, I think We're
going to just take a quick break. We'll use this.
It's a good segue to go back to part two.
So folks, don't go away. We have much more with
jan Hennick and her book to Enduring Love about her
two parents and how they came to America. So don't away,
(23:13):
We'll be right back. Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
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(23:39):
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Speaker 2 (24:00):
Welcome back, folks to forty five Forward Ron Rowell. We're
talking with Jan Hennick about her book two Enduring Love.
Before the break, we were talking about how she came
to write the book after thinking about it for many years,
and so I wanted to just ask you. I know, Jen,
that you would opportunity to do it a different way,
(24:22):
but I have your mother kind of talk about her
experience in the concentration camp, but you decided instead you
wanted to do it your way. So explain that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Well, I really wanted to make sure that my father's
role was clear, and I think that my mother would
have survived the wassn't for my father. He was always
able to be counted on. So without giving the book,
whatever he did, people in his unit felt that he
(24:57):
didn't find her in bergen Belsen because there were three
trains out of Belson suit Raisin Seat, which was another
camp which was north, and each train was liberated except
for the third train that she was on that was
liberated by So the first two were liberated by the
(25:22):
Americans or the British, and you know, or I should
say the Allies. But the key is that the third
train was my mother had told me that the train
was strafed and she didn't know who had strafed it
or whatever. But the point is that it was bombarded
(25:46):
and she spaw and she didn't know how she survived,
and she didn't know how she got into this field.
But she was in a field looking at a farmhouse,
thinking of how hungry and thirsty and and and just
didn't know how to be and she was picked up
by the Russians. She doesn't remember anything beyond looking at
(26:09):
the farmhouse and thinking to their self that you know,
I needed I need to be there, and they took
it to the Russian hospital. So the fact is that
my father needed to find a way to although the
Russians were, he needed to find a way to get
(26:31):
to the Russian side. And I say sorry because that
there were all sorts of concerns and that's all part
its story.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right, So they meet up again, and so so you
wanted to tell your father's story too, that you didn't
want it to just be about your mother, and you know,
and her basically telling the story of the concentration camp.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Saved her from the Russian hospital. He had suffered a
stroke and in the hospital, I mean not in the hospital.
They were taken care of her in the hospital, but
it was a field hospital. So she had to get
out of there because I don't think that she would
have survived.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Okay, okay, So let's let's jump off ahead a little bit.
People can read to fill in the pages of the
book that they should buy the book on Amazon, and
we'll tell about that later. But essentially, let's let's switch
a little bit. So now you you know, your parents
come to America. They are in a story of Queens
and Long Island, well the city part of Long Island.
(27:40):
And what I found about interesting about the book too,
and you're telling me about it is, you know, it's
it's an interesting immigrants story, you know, about about how
immigrants came together after the war. You know. Interestingly, my
grandparents met in Brooklyn. My father's mother was from Hungary
(28:04):
and my grandfather was from Mexico, and it was you know,
it was and I think actually Queens, even today, these
areas are among the most diverse in the country. So
tell us about so you're growing up with your parents
and how they kind of shaped you and what you
learned from them. Looking back now.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well it was so. I think I told you I
had a wonderful childhood, not because I had everything, but
most of all, there was always food on the table,
and I knew I was loved. I mean, no matter
how hard parents work. And my mother was a housewife
and because she was paralyzed on her left side, that
(28:52):
she wouldn't work because nobody would give her a job.
The issue with my father was that he was a
musician and he found that he couldn't help steady work.
In addition to which he got mortageous when he realized
that he didn't have steady work and it wasn't worth
(29:15):
it to hang around the unions or waiting to be called,
so he went to work in a factory. I think
that one of the things that I loved about my
childhood was the diversity. And I could think of all
(29:36):
the names I still recall, house by house, all the
names everybody from Hungarian and Irish and Italian and Hungarian
they say Marian or whatever Greek you name it. House
by house, all of side by side, and one of
(29:59):
the things is that everybody, or almost everybody, had been
a soldier, so we all we all put a flag
every single holiday. The flag was definitely out and uh
one of one of the nice things was that we
played soldier. Everybody had uniforms, so we all borrowed our
(30:24):
our parents' uniforms, I mean our father's for the most
and so we played soldiers. So it was it was
really great and I always appreciate the fact that I
grew up like that. One of the things about my
parents was that they were very proud to be Americans,
(30:44):
and they they didn't take it for granted. They definitely
uh wanted to reflect to us, to my brother and myself,
how great it was. So that it starts with my
brother being named George, after George Washington. My father felt
(31:07):
that George Washington was the first person in his life
actually who actually he was a Mason, and he actually
realized that it was terribly important to have freedom of
religion and that they should all be able to practice
the way you wanted to practice religion. So he named
(31:30):
him George, and he felt that if he would be
as honest as George was despite the fact that that
that was a made up story by Parson Williams about
his chip chopping down the cherry tree. But that really
exemplified his life because he really was an honest and
(31:51):
caring human being. So, I mean, I watch all of
the different takes on George Washington, and I think I
think that he would have he would be a polled
at some of the the things that were said about him,
but in essence, what he felt was set to the
(32:15):
Truro Synagogue. He wrote a letter to them and that's
on the wall of the Turo Synagogue about freedom of religion,
a lot of other values that my father exemplified. People
asked he was on the ship, aren't you fraid or whatever,
(32:37):
and he had said, well, I believe in God and
I believe that God will do whatever is right. I mean,
I mean that faith. So he didn't worry about anything.
And he said there are no Europes. He said, they
are only people who do the right thing when called upon.
(32:57):
So I really really always appreciated his take on heroes
because no one starts out saying, oh, I'm going to
be a hero. And a lot of people died too
many and it was a horrible war, but they fought
for some some real reason and there was a real
(33:22):
view that you know, when they died, there was there
was no The sadness was mitigated by the fact that
they they were fighting for a real course and that
was freedom. So that was that was that my mother
felt that she said to me, money is power, and
(33:46):
I thought about that. She felt that I wasted my
money that I earned. But I felt that if it
made somebody happy, I thought that was the right to do.
If you cared about somebody and you use your money
(34:08):
to uh to do the right thing, and why say
right thing? Uh? It was it was different. But she
had a view that money is power because not having
had the money, she couldn't get out of hungry and
she had to wait and while my father was trying
(34:29):
to work and earn money to bring her and her
mother out. So that was what what what they said.
But one of the things that I what I always
said that I thought my father did great, uh, is
(34:49):
that he would take us every week somewhere else, to
the Statue of Liberty, to uh to the parks. He
was even took us to the u N So I
mean it was at that time there was great hope
for the u N. The fact that it was a
(35:11):
place to speak and to be able to resolve differences
was extremely hopeful. And uh, you know it was he
instilled in us, and I know I can talk for
I can speak for my brother that he instilled in
us and understanding that America was great. I mean it
(35:35):
really really was great because they came from a place
where things were not great, especially for Jews, I mean
other people too, for Jews especially and uh, given all
of that stuff, I mean it's it's it's you know,
horrifying about anti Semitism. Uh that it's just continuing to
(35:59):
rear it's ugly head, and it's you see a lot
of it. I didn't. I saw a lot of it
in my childhood. I didn't pay attention to it because
it wasn't it wasn't front and center until after the
(36:21):
Kennedy assassination and then went with the Vietnam War and
the other assassinations. A certain level of hopelessness and to
my view of things, ah, I had gone to I
was in the bridal party for my friend who was
(36:43):
who was having a rainbow wedding, and she was when
I have a rainbow wedding. You know, you're you're in
different colors, so you each each two people have different
color dresses. So it doesn't mean rainbow like we have
(37:03):
rainbow now. It meant that you you get together and
it was like a brotherhood. It was so it was
on the steps of the Immaculate Conception the church. Uh.
And they mean, I'll never forget that photograph that they
(37:24):
took two sisters were getting married, that they married at
the same time, and then they had this rainbow wedding,
you know, because everybody was on the steps, uh, in
different colored gowns. But at the time that I went,
they had a white power uh uh. You know they've
(37:48):
had a white power uh uh what would you call that?
A rally? Rally? A rally? And they they really they
said who's Mark read he's Jewish? Who's this? And and
you know when I saw people at that rally, because
(38:12):
I had to pass the rally to get to the church,
it was it was very frightening.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, I mean I think that, you know, these things continue,
the you know, the challenges continue. But I think that
but I think that your parents, you know, gifted you
values that were sort of a combination of both you know,
faith and practicality. So your mother talked about money, and
(38:42):
I think you mentioned me that your father sort of
like my parents, like I could think a lot of immigrants.
I think your father mentioned that. I think he gave
this to you. I think as mentioned in your story
about your your yearbook. Yeah, man's greatest tool and strongest
weapon is knowledge. And I remember my parents saying to me,
(39:03):
you know, in terms of my education, that you know
that you know, an education is something no one can
take away from you. So that was the importance of
education was really paramount. And I think that you know,
it continues to be and I think recognizing that this
is for a lot of immigrant parents, you know, an
important lesson that that's how you get ahead, you know,
(39:26):
that's it's important in terms of getting the life skills
you need. So it's not so it is faith, but
it's but it's also hard work in education.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Definitely. I couldn't couldn't. I couldn't agree with you moren
on this subject. My father always stated that he needed
to see us successful and the only way to see
us successful was for us to get education. And I
(39:58):
always love that saying he came up with for my brother.
Man's greatest tool and strongest weapon is knowledge. Right, he
really could see beyond what was at the current time
and could see in the future. But he also gave
(40:20):
us a lot of hope, as in my did my
mother because she was concerned about hope as the future.
My mother said about hope that when she felt that
she saw the Statue of Liberty, it gave her tremendous
hope because liberty, that freedom, the whole idea that you
(40:43):
you can do whatever you wanted to do within reason,
you know. But the point is that that was tremendous
for her, and I really believe that she really looked
(41:05):
at it as a real possibility. And when we were
at the World's Fair, and we went to the World's
Fair in nineteen sixty four, one of the themes, I
guess the major theme was this big, bright, beautiful tomorrow. Yeah,
(41:27):
and you know, everybody followed that theme. And there was
such hope in the world. There was amazing the amount
of hope that there was. I think, to a certain extent,
we're there again where we have tremendous hope. After we
(41:50):
had a tremendous a strong time, a long time of
issues and the whole idea of hope, yeah, for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, I think that is a very American value, right.
I mean it's it's it's it is hard work and
it's but it also is part of, you know, the
unity that you felt growing up in your neighborhood with
all you know, your diverse neighbors. And I think that
that remains, you know, an iconic American values. You know,
despite our challenges as we get older, you know, we
(42:27):
continue to have hope. And and I think that you know,
in your in your own career, you know, I get
I got a sense, you know, you don't say it directly,
but I sort of implicitly that that your viewing of
your parents in commitment to American its values, you know,
(42:48):
in some way affected your career because you you spent
a lot of like what almost forty years in public service,
right and for the FAA, is that right?
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And then I spo ten in uh teaching, So, I
mean teaching was always my first love. But unfortunately at
the time that I got my license, it was the
first time ever under Lindsay that they didn't hire teachers.
(43:19):
In other words, I was student teaching John Dewey High School,
and they said, you know, we'd love to hire you,
but we can't. So I took the first job I
could get, and that was a type is in a
typing pool. And my point was just try and do
(43:42):
the best you could, and you get to the forefront
by just trying. And I think what you're thinking of
is that in nineteen eighty three, Elizabeth Dole came and
took a tour of the fa where I worked, and
(44:06):
she she I was in HR Human Resources and I
I heard her say, where are the women manages? You know?
Doles Secretary of Transportation.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Secretary of Transportation at the time. Yeah. So this was
during the reign.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Years, right right, right, But she used to be a
Democrat in other words, you know, I looked her up
when I thought about her, because I mean, some of
her ideas are very much along the lines of the Democrat.
But it was a Reagan administration that gave her the
(44:46):
opportunity to be Secretary Intation. And I was so happy
that she had come. And she said, I'm not going
to promote women because they're women. I'm going to promote
qualified women. And she said, if you can show that
you have qualifications, that's fine. I started out I was
(45:13):
the only woman in the class. For FAA. It was
going to be the first class of Embry Riddle and
Long Island University working together. So Emvery Riddle is an
aeronautical university, and of course Long Island University CW POST
(45:34):
is the university. So I finished. I was the only
one who finished, only one of the women who finished.
I started out being the only one, and there was
no one who joined us over the course of five years,
and I was given an extra year to present. Originally
(45:57):
they were asking for a dissertation, and then they allowed
people to take comprehensive exams. And for those who wanted
to take comprehensive exams, which I was, I didn't have
time to at that point. I had been a manager
(46:19):
and I was on these various projects and traveling, and
I took the comprehensive exams and got my diploma. But
aside from all that, she established certain programs, and among
those programs were the Women's Executive Leadership. And she thought
(46:42):
that she looked at herself and she felt that she
really tried very hard. She's top of her class, which
is what I was the graduate. She really believed in
women being qualified. I mean not just because you're a woman.
(47:03):
You know, doesn't it doesn't really matter. But the point
was that thinking about the mindset was an important point
for her, and I headed up the first women's executive
leadership program for my area and a lot of talented
(47:28):
women came through that. What I was known for was
of and if you look up my name in the
f A annuals I Suspected Unimproved Parts Team, which was
a major program about getting unapproved parts for aircraft. So
(47:51):
you know, when you don't when when something goes wrong
you need a part and you don't go onto steers
to get a part, you know, whether it's a hose
or small hose or something major FETO too. I mean,
it was like you really don't, So, I mean what
you really needed to do is to make sure that
(48:13):
the people getting the parts and replacing the ports were
qualified and the part had Every part has a birth certificate,
so it's born right.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
These are airplane parts, right? Is that an airplane right?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah? Yeah, So let me just say that for people.
If you go to my website forty five forward dot org,
you can see that we listened to the episode and
there's a little bit of bio about Jans. You can
be a little bit more about her bio there if
you want to fill in the in the some of
the background. So I think that you know you so
(48:55):
you carried on me even though you obviously weren't in
the military. But you you know, you know, I hear
in your voice you're carrying on your legacy your parents
through service. You don't need to be, you know, a soldier,
but your sense of serving and teaching and also listen,
having safe planes is a big part of our country.
(49:17):
So you know, I think that those values of you know,
sort of practicality, but also attention to you know, what's
the right thing to do. Any any last thoughts on
how you look at what how your parents help build
you in terms of your values, and I have to
(49:38):
say your resilience, you know, your your sense of purpose
and resilience.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
The most important thing is I think that my parents
taught me not to judge a book by the bis cover.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Nice okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
So yeah, So when people try to put you in
category or is like jew woman whatever, my parents always said,
it's not who you are, but what you do. Yeah,
And so I've always believed in work. Time's effort equals results,
(50:17):
and that was the formula that I lived. But I
tried to explain both in my work life and in
my teaching that that was the formula that led to success.
I honestly felt that if you followed that, you'd be
(50:37):
very successful.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, and you did that in spite of it, along
with all your challenges that you you've had some significant challenges.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Right well, I mean I and that really I really
owe to my mother because when I was going to
give up, because I had been very sick a number
of times, and when I got out of the hospital
one time, they had because I used to be in
the hospital a lot, but I couldn't miss work, so
(51:12):
they would fill me, pomp me full of cortisone. And
this one time, I mean, it was like I couldn't
stop shaking. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't think, I couldn't.
It was just it was just so horrible. And I
said to my mother, I can't go on. I just can't.
I can't go on like this. I just can't. And
(51:35):
she I never saw her get angry, but she got
really angry this time with me, and she was like amazing,
and she said, you can't go on? How do you
think I felt when I was in Bergen Bills? How
do you think that I managed to get to go on?
(51:57):
You know? I mean? And then she opened up a
little bit about what it would had occurred, and it
really made me realize that you can do anything that
you put your mind to, that if you believe that
you can, you will. And as bad as I felt,
(52:21):
and I felt really horrible, uh I, And and I
really didn't know how I would go on, but my
mother shocked me into into believing this is not the
way to be, and I overcame them.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Yeah, I'm just thinking back to what you said earlier,
which is, you know, your sense of both your parents'
courage is you know, your ordinary people, you know, doing extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Things, right, yes.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, yeah, Well I want to thank you for a
terrific conversation, Jan, very thought provoking. I loved the overall
story of both your parents and you and and your
determination to write it. Uh, you know, because I think
you know these are these are the stories, ordinary stories
(53:12):
that that us ordinary people need to read for inspiration.
So so let me just say, if people have comments
or questions for you, how did they get in touch?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
With you, Jan Janhinnick, Yes, Janhinnick at gmail dot com.
I'll be glad to answer any questions you have or
whatever you want me to comment on. Uh, you can
get my book on Amazon dot com. You can download
(53:44):
it to as a as a h what is the book? Right?
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah? And I noticed that when I went to the site,
there's a there's a sample you can people can actually
download a sample from the from.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Your absolutely absolutely you know. I meant to tell you.
I felt I was channeling my parents when I wrote it,
because you had asked me about how I wrote it,
and I felt like every time I was writing one
person's segment like my mother's for my father's, I felt
(54:18):
I didn't. I wasn't at a loss for words. I
just was able to write smoothly. So I felt I
was channeling a different parent at a different talk.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Wow. Interesting, nice, nice, Okay, well, folks, again, thanks so
much Jan for a great conversation. Thank you, Ron, and
once again, if you want to get in touch with me,
I'm Ron at forty five forward dot org and you
(54:53):
can see a full archive of my shows. And for
the people miss to our conversation, actually today it's they
can always see it by going to forty five forward
dot Oregon, part of my archive of all my shows.
So if you again us as we go forward with
(55:16):
this inspiration from Jen until the next time, keep moving forward.
Forty five Forward
Speaker 1 (55:27):
M.
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