May 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Building Influence and Community: The Future (and Power) of Author Newsletters
In this episode of 'All Things Book Marketing,' the host Corinne Moulder, Smith Publicity's Vice President of Business Development, interviews Kathleen Schmidt, founder of Kathleen Schmidt Public Relations.
They discuss Kathleen's extensive experience in book publishing as a publicist, literary agent, acquisitions editor, and ghostwriter. Kathleen shares the inspiration behind her popular newsletter 'Publishing Confidential,' on Substack.
She offers advice on creating engaging content, building a newsletter audience, and the evolving role of digital platforms in the publishing industry. Kathleen also touches on future plans, including branded events and a potential podcast.
The conversation provides valuable insights for authors, experts, and publicists looking to navigate the ever-changing landscape of book publicity.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Hype
01:35 Kathleen's Journey to Publishing Confidential
03:32 Growing a Newsletter Audience
07:24 Balancing Personal and Professional Content
10:20 The Role of Newsletters in Modern Publishing
15:40 Tips for Publicists and Newsletter Writers
24:31 Starting and Sustaining a Newsletter
34:13 Future Plans and Conclusion
For more insights about book publicity and book marketing, visit Smith Publicity and subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on upcoming podcast episodes.
In this episode of 'All Things Book Marketing,' the host Corinne Moulder, Smith Publicity's Vice President of Business Development, interviews Kathleen Schmidt, founder of Kathleen Schmidt Public Relations.
They discuss Kathleen's extensive experience in book publishing as a publicist, literary agent, acquisitions editor, and ghostwriter. Kathleen shares the inspiration behind her popular newsletter 'Publishing Confidential,' on Substack.
She offers advice on creating engaging content, building a newsletter audience, and the evolving role of digital platforms in the publishing industry. Kathleen also touches on future plans, including branded events and a potential podcast.
The conversation provides valuable insights for authors, experts, and publicists looking to navigate the ever-changing landscape of book publicity.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Hype
01:35 Kathleen's Journey to Publishing Confidential
03:32 Growing a Newsletter Audience
07:24 Balancing Personal and Professional Content
10:20 The Role of Newsletters in Modern Publishing
15:40 Tips for Publicists and Newsletter Writers
24:31 Starting and Sustaining a Newsletter
34:13 Future Plans and Conclusion
For more insights about book publicity and book marketing, visit Smith Publicity and subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on upcoming podcast episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi everyone, and thank you for joining us today on
All Things Book Marketing. I am pretty excited to be
interviewing today Kathleen Schmidt. Kathleen, I'm going to hype you
up here because you are a that we've been wanting
to have on our podcast. Kathleen is a well respected
voice in book publishing as founder of Kathleen Schmidt public Relations.
(00:34):
She is a strategist who applies her in depth experience
in all aspects of the industry, including as a publicist,
literary agent, acquisitions editor, and ghostwriter to every project she
takes on. Her career encompasses thirty years of creating and
directing impactful and strategic global media, marketing and branding campaigns
(00:54):
for politicians, a list, celebrities, athletes, and high profile personalities.
To date, she has worked on fifty New York Times bestsellers.
Kathleen is the author of the widely read newsletter Publishing
Confidential on Substack and has recently received her MBA from
Southern New Hampshire University. Kathleen, thank you so much for
(01:16):
being on today.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, I really do mean it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You're a little bit of a celeb for us in
some ways, and I know it makes you chuckle because
you're on the other side of, you know, helping to
amplify other voices.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
But in all of our.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Conversations with clients, with authors, becoming a voice for community
is just so coveted, and you've really done that with
Publishing Confidential.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So, Kathe, if you could.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to
start it and what the journey has been since you
have launched it, we'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Sure. So back in two thousand sixteen early twenty seventeen,
I was between jobs and I didn't know what I
was going to do next. So I thought of writing
a newsletter and I was using Mailchimp, so it was
(02:17):
very like low tech at that point, and I named
it Publishing Confidential, and I just figured I would write
about certain issues in the industry. Years ago, for a
little while, I had a column with the Virginia Quarterly Review,
and I would write about book publishing issues. And that
(02:40):
was when my last time freelancing which was between twenty
ten twenty thirteen. So I already had a little bit
of experience you know, writing about the industry writ large
and I figured, you know, why not try this again.
I told some people I was launching it, and I
think I probably had about, I don't know, fIF email
(03:00):
addresses from colleagues and friends, and I think I only
did about three issues. And then I got a job
as a literary agent and I had to stop writing
a newsletter. Then I after being an agent for a
couple of years, I was a director of publicity at
(03:24):
Skyhorse Publishing. When I left that job in twenty twenty two.
Again I was, you know, kind of debating what my
next step was going to be, and I ended up
landing on you know, working for myself. So fast forward
to March of twenty twenty three. I just started my
(03:46):
you know PR business, PR and marketing business, and I
was like, you know, let me take a stab at this.
I had heard of sub stack, I you know, asked
my niece to create a logo for me, and off
I went. And I just I didn't pay attention to
(04:07):
who was subscribing or you know, how many subscribers I wanted.
I just wrote. I wrote what I wanted to write,
and that ended up being the best thing for me
to do because people started sharing the newsletter. And at first,
you know, I had some people with big followings on
(04:28):
Twitter share it, which helped with you know, my growth
from you know, fifty subscribers to five thousand subscribers. Then,
as you know, Twitter went in the trash can, it
became more about the content, you know, making sure the
content was something I felt like the audience wanted, but
(04:52):
also you know, creating sort of a niche for myself
where there was really no one who the experience that
I have working in house and writing a newsletter, being
really honest about what the business is like. And from
there it really grew really organically. I started getting asked
(05:20):
to be on podcasts, people who were writing publishing stories
were coming to me asking me for you know, my
input or quotes, and I started, you know, I kind
of got the hang of substack, and because I was
on Twitter pretty early on, I'm very used to what
(05:42):
the note section of the platform is like with people
posting and with you know, being very succinct and what
they post. So I started using that. I started subscribing
to a lot of other newsletters recommending them, they'd recommend
me back. And now it's grown to sixteen thousand subscribers.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So impressive. But both that does not happen overnight, right, No.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No, no, it doesn't. And yeah, and you know, the
advice that I give people often is I don't pay
attention to the numbers, because that will drive you insane.
I just write what I want to write, and I
keep in mind, you know what might resonate with my readers.
(06:31):
And the posts that do really well are the ones
that get into the nitty gritty of how certain things
work in book publishing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I will say you are spot on with that, Kathleen.
You're publishing Confidential goes out, it's quickly forwarded by whoever
gets it first, It's in all of our inboxes, and
it does become fodder even for our publicity team. Here,
publicity to be feeling like we are heard or we're
(07:04):
not alone, because here's Kathleen and she's elevated something that
we're all having a pain point with, or just bringing
in some perspective on the positives that are happening, you know,
in a landscape that's very uncertain and quite up and
down day today, So you are definitely making the points there.
(07:24):
And I will say, Kathleen, what's also been exciting for
us is how human you are in your substack or
your column. There's so much relatable content. So how do
you find and how did you even start to get
over I'm sure some of the initial fears of what
(07:45):
you're putting out there, and how do you balance the
personal narrative that you bring in which we all do like,
but not overshadow the professional insights that you're really looking
to share.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I honestly think that I fine tuned that by being
a superheuster of Twitter for so long. You know, I
found my balance there between personal and professional. And there
there came a point, you know, before Elon Musk took
(08:21):
it over where I would do these threads about you know,
book publishing and how certain things worked in book publishing,
and they'd go viral. So that was a very comfortable
spot for me to be in. And then as far
as you know, personal, I've published you know, personal essays
(08:42):
online with the Wall Street Journal and the New York
Times and a couple of other places, and so I
know my limitations, you know, I know what I don't
want to put out there and what I keep outside
you know of that because you you know, there are
certain things you can't talk about. And in my personal life,
(09:06):
you know, my limitations are pretty much I don't bring up, uh,
you know, personal stuff with my kids. I don't really
write about them that much anymore. Wrote about them when
they were little. Uh. And my husband is like completely
off limits per an agreement we made a very long
(09:28):
time ago when I started getting a bigger following on
Instagram and Twitter at that time and now threads. He
is perfectly comfortable being in the background. He is. He's
the most offline person that I know. But he did
(09:48):
agree to be interviewed for the newsletter, so that would
be very interesting.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Is that that has not yet come out.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It has not yet come out, all right, I'm interviewing
him about what it's like being married to a book publicist.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I mean, you can say a bit of an influencer again,
voice of community, as you've been. If you're not already
picking up on some of the tips that we'll get
into later, then we'll definitely narrow those down. But you're
already giving such good ideas here, Kathleen, and just sharing
your own journey, what others could anticipate? What role, and
(10:29):
you have been publishing for so long, thirty years experience,
what role do you see sub stack and these independent
platforms really playing in the evolution of publishing And how
do you see the relationships between publishers and these platforms
continuing to develop.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's a great question. And one of the things that
I see happening is that the newsletter platforms are really
becoming places to discover books where legacy media, you know,
has tremendously cut back on book coverage, and it's so competitive,
(11:11):
and it's like, you know, a lot of authors don't
realize that when you see a profile of a particular author,
it takes a long time to get that profile, and
it takes you know, that author having a substantial body
(11:35):
of work already, or you know, their first book was
a huge bestseller and their follow up is maybe five
years later, so it's highly anticipated, whereas with substack it's
more and other newsletter platforms, it's more about giving voice
to authors and books that normally probably we wouldn't get
(12:00):
covered in mainstream legacy media. So I think the relationship
between the newsletter platforms and book publishing is still developing.
I think, you know, based on my past experience in
house and talking to sales teams and trying to convince
(12:22):
them that you know, back in the day that blogs
were legitimate, you know, book coverage, I think that you know,
book publicists are probably facing that same hurdle right now,
and it's going to take a little while for buy
in to happen on other levels. I know, you know,
(12:45):
some publishers and CEOs of publishing companies are definitely on
board with with newsletter platforms, but I also know that
you know, it takes a lot of buy in from authors,
agents and people in sales to you know, consider it
(13:08):
legitimate and you know it's no, it's not a review
in the New York Times. But you'll also have to
look at and explain to them that landing in somebody's
email inbox is the most valuable thing that you can have,
because you know, I could tell you, you know, I
(13:31):
read the Times every day, read the Wall Street Journal
every day, the Washington Post every day. The book coverage
is not front and center. So you if you want something,
if you want book coverage on those platforms and you
go on either you know, the web or the app,
you have to go look for it. You have to
(13:52):
go specifically read book coverage, whereas on substock you know,
the newsletters you subscribe to and on other platforms will
most likely have you know, if you want book coverage,
it's front and center, and that's what you're looking at.
It's very you know, targeted to people who want to
(14:13):
hear about books.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, oh, Kathleen, you are saying all the right things.
And I think you've said something about the value of
the email in your inbox right, and I think for
what we're seeing as well in the conversations we're having
on you know, very similar levels. Is that the currency
of the email, right, and so when you are inviting
(14:36):
someone in your inbox, it's it's a much more it's
a much stronger connection than the scrolling of social media.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
So we are definitely you're.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Touching on it and agents and publishers starting to look
at the value of the email list and the email
list engagement over the social media following.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
So that will absolutely continue.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, if you if
you think about it, how many times are book reviews
actually getting clicked on by you know, when they appear
in legacy media. I'm not even going to talk about
the print editions of anything because circulation is so far down.
(15:21):
But if you think about that and you compare it
to you know, a sub stack that even has five
thousand subscribers, you're probably you're probably more likely to get
eyeballs on your book in that newsletter than you are
behind a paywall.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, what the riches are in the niches, right, And
that's even a lot of pcast host putting out there letters,
which is just another form of coverage opportunity. With the
increasing importance of digital platforms, How how should publicists be adapting?
And I think this is the two parter I was
(15:58):
letting you know because you obviously are a publicist, but
then you sit on the side of being a media
professional with your with your newsletter. And we have been
talking about it in the office in preparation to have
you on today, and our own team was curious about,
you know, how you choose your topics, because yes, you
(16:19):
had more autonomy in creating this platform for yourself. And
then we're the publicists on the other side, should we
be pitching them what's the best form to reach out?
Do they want to cover our topics or are they
just in the land of wanting to cover what speaks
to them. So if you could just give a little
insight on both the pr perspective of things to have
(16:41):
in mind when pitching to a creator, and then also
on the other side of how you like to.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Engage or if you're just.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
General preference is to put out what you are interested in.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It's been fascinating being on the other side of it
because I get to see publish this pitch.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, and I know it.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah. And you know, the one thing that I've noticed
is that you know, with with some publicists who pitch
me their authors, is that they don't understand my audience.
And that is really key to pitching anybody on on
(17:24):
you know, on a newsletter platform, you know form. For myself,
I am sure to you know, create relationships with other
newsletter writers so that we you know, I have I
have a network going right now with a lot of
different newsletter writers and it's almost like, you know, sometimes
(17:48):
it's a barter system, you know, where you know you're
working on X y Z, you have this, uh, you
know you'll cover this, can you cover that sort of
a thing, And that's very helpful. You know, that's kind
of an insidery sub stack kind of thing. If you
(18:10):
want to call it something, I wouldn't say it's a clique.
I would just say, you know, a lot of writers
on there communicate with each other outside of the platform.
So I've actually met a lot of newsletter writers, you know,
just like having a conversation on Zoom or you know.
(18:31):
I am a board member of Women's Media Group and
I put together a panel on uh, you know, independent journalism,
and I had two authors on who have substacks, and
then I had two independent journalists on who are not
on substack but have newsletters on other platforms. And it's
(18:54):
really about knowing what that person writes about, but also
understanding their audience. And the best way to understand the
audience is to go look at the comments and how
people are reacting to certain topics that that person writes about.
(19:14):
So there are a lot of places where you can
get books covered on substack. And you know, the one
difference with Substack versus other newsletter platforms is that you
can search topics on there. So if you search literature,
you know, you'll get a ton of newsletters that come
(19:35):
up that cover books, which is which is a great thing,
and you just have you know, it's just like pitching journalists.
You have to know their beat, you know, and you
have to also think about these days anyway, when you're
when you're talking about legacy media, you have to think
about is this something somebody is going to click on?
(19:57):
Because all of them are looking for clicks. They looking
for content that people are going to click on. It's
the same kind of thing with newsletters. So you know,
when I approach people about, you know, certain things that
I'm working on, I kind of already know that they'll
like them because they've either mentioned something similar or you know,
(20:22):
if I'm working with a particular imprint and I know
that that imprint's books have been in somebody's newsletter more
than once, then I'll focus on that person. It's still
a very you know, unwieldy way of figuring this out.
(20:45):
You know. One of my goals over the next six
months is to get a spreadsheet together of substacks and
what they cover, so that I have a tool at
my disposal to use for that. And you know, on
the flip side, the things I write about, I wish
(21:07):
I could tell you that I you know, create a
content calendar and editorial calendar or whatever. It's a lot
of the times, it's really what's on my mind on
that particular day. And sometimes I have a lot on
my mind, and that's when I do sort of the
I'm going to write a little paragraph about five different
(21:28):
publishing stories that are going on right now. And then
in other cases, people who I you know, I know casually,
whether through the publishing world or through substock will come
pitch me. And now you know, those are the people
(21:50):
I would say who get me to do stuff because
they understand my audience. So they will come to me
and say, you know, I think your readers might like this,
and they're usually right because they really do have a
good idea of what I'm writing about and what people
are reacting to. So, for example, I have I'll have
(22:13):
a newsletter next week an interview with two writers on
substack who did something genius and put together a digital
catalog of books coming out over the next few months
(22:33):
by authors who have substacks, And they did one book
on each page with a description the person substack and
their bio and I think and a bookshop dot org
link that you could buy right from that, and I
think it's brilliant. So there's that there. There will be
(22:56):
another newsletter dedicated to a new platform that sells books
but also has a a vertical where authors can build
their own websites and it's super easy to use. And
those are from people who just get what I do
and get you know, who my audience is. There are
(23:18):
other pitches I receive. Then I feel bad because I
know how hard it is for book publicists right now,
especially when it's fiction, where it's just a fiction book
and there's nothing, you know, particularly compelling about the author
and it's not And it's not that I think it's
a bad pitch, it's that it's not catered to me.
(23:41):
It's not telling me why, I why this person would
fit in with my readers, or you know, why this
person would have anything to say that would resonate with
my readers. So if you're pitching newsletter writers very much,
keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, wow, Kathleen, that sounds incredible And I can't help
but think too of the support that you're talking about
within the newsletter community. It reminds me a lot of
podcast growth as well. Yeah, podcast posts will will swap
interviews and opportunities to tap into each other's network. Yep,
under the umbrella of the same big concepts and bigger
(24:22):
themes that that cross over. That makes a lot of sense,
and that sounds like a fascinating directory that is being
put together by the I.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Was born away.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, that's next week's newsletter.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It will be in one newsletter next week.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yep, Kathleen, you've given us so many tips already. But
for authors and experts that are considering launching their own
newsletter to ensure that they can effectively contribute and add
to the conversations in motion in this ever changing landscape,
(24:58):
what are some pill or I would say, non negotiables
that you would recommend on the very front end of
starting starting a newsletter. That could be assets that they
should have in place, digital proof of their expertise. Just
tell us a little bit about you know, you're not
just jumping in and writing a blog.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, I mean, you know again, this was I learned
as I went along, as I do with a lot
of platforms that I try for the first time, and
I'm just very adaptable with technology, so I catch on quickly.
So with this, I would say, think about what it
(25:40):
is you want to put out there and what value
it brings to the reader? You know, are you solving
a problem for them? Are you creating a community of
support for a particular type of reader? Are you covering
a particular topic? And how often can you write about
(26:04):
things that fall under the umbrella of that topic? You know?
Is it sustainable? You know? I would also say, and
what I suggest to people is think, you know, kind
of workshop a title for your newsletter and when you
have that, then get get a logo professionally created or
if you're good with canva, you know, do it in
(26:27):
Canva because it looks better when you have something like that.
You know. The The other thing is, uh, you know,
your your bio on there matters because people will want
to look at like, well, who is this person and
what is there you know, what is their expertise and
how are they qualified to write about what they're writing about.
(26:50):
I did a post It was probably about like a
year a year and a half ago, and it was
all just about me, like getting to know me. So
I sort of interviewed myself about favorite bands, books, favorite jobs,
you know, all that kind of stuff, and people really
responded to it. They really liked getting to know me
(27:12):
the person. And if you look at what's happening across
the board in social media with Instagram, TikTok, you know, threads,
even Blue Sky, people want to communicate with other people online.
They you know, the parasocial relationship is real, and sometimes
(27:37):
that could be a very negative thing, but sometimes it's
very positive. And people, you know, people want to connect
with the person who is writing the newsletter. So you know,
one thing that I do, I do respond to comments.
(27:57):
I do make sure that you know, people I get
to have a conversation with me in the comments. That's
that's really important. So it's also about you know, I
call it tending your garden. And that's what the comments
section on your newsletter really is. It's like a garden,
and sometimes you have you know, you have to read it.
(28:20):
And that's okay. I've had to black people before, not many, thankfully,
but you have to, you know, you have to be
able to look at your comments section see what's going
on there, but also look at your metrics and see
what's working and what's not working, you know, And and
that's also a driver of content because if I see
(28:43):
that my views and my open rate was really low
for a particular newsletter, I might not do a newsletter
like that again, or write about that topic again, or
maybe write about it in a different way. Whereas you know,
something you know, the one I did last week about
how much does book publicity cost? That that did huge
(29:04):
numbers for me, clearly something clearly something every you know,
people wanted to understand and and to know about. And
you know, it is also my way of having solidarity
with other publicists because you know, people balk at the
prices we charge, but they don't understand the costs that
(29:25):
we take on. So you know, if you're thinking about
writing a newsletter, content is king. You know, have content
that people can engage with, ask you questions about, pass
along to other people, because it's it's worth sharing something
that you said. Do a search on substack on the
(29:46):
topic that you want to write about, see who's already
in that space, what they're doing, how they're doing it,
how you can be different from that person. And again,
you know, don't focus so much on how many subscribers
you're gaining or losing. Just keep going. And you know
the other part of this that I would say is
(30:08):
you're more likely to see growth if you don't put
a paywall on it right away.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So smart, Kathleen. That makes a lot of sense. That
makes a lot of sense with the evolution here and
just the pressure. I think that a lot of authors
and experts will feel in forming their network and staying engaged.
We know consistency is so important. What consistency metrics do
(30:39):
you recommend for individuals kind of starting out? And how
have you seen? How did you come up with your
own consistency? I guess did you always have it once?
Is it once a week or every other week?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
It's once a week? Sometimes you know when something else
is going on, like when that whole Bill Belichick pr
disaster was happening, people got a couple he.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Could they were great. It was our minds.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But usually one free one a week and then every
Friday I do uh And I will give my husband
one hundred percent credit for coming up with this book
therapy on Fridays where paid subscribers get to ask me
questions about the industry and I answer them. That was
his brainchild. Yes, well, you see the thing with him
(31:35):
is that he's a music industry executive, so he is
also he is very much on the business end of
the music industry, but he started out as a creative
and you know, so he he started out in marketing,
but he's more in the legal part of it now
and he always has really good ideas. So I took
(31:58):
that and I was like, you know what, that's really good.
I'm going to do that. And then, you know, like,
there are certain weeks where I'm just not feeling it.
This is one of those weeks. I have a lot
on my mind. There are a lot of topics I
want to get to, but you know, I'm short on
time this week, and it's just not going to happen.
(32:19):
And you have to be okay with that. You have
to give yourself some compassion for that. And I'd rather
write a really good newsletter than do something really short
and meaningless and just like toss away. So I try
to keep myself on schedule and do it once a week.
I do not have a set date a day of
(32:39):
the week that I send it out on. I try
to do it by Wednesday though most times.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, throughout this whole conversation, it's just so evident how
human all of this really is.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
The building up.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, right, I love that you said giving yourself grace
for the days that you don't feel you can show up,
rather than kind of just running through content just for
the sake of getting something out.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And I think that's what people need to hear because it.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Is intimidating, intimidating to think of how to start the journey.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, and you know I am. I'm not a risk
averse person. I should say that, so you know that
it didn't even the thought didn't even enter my head
that this might not work when I started doing it,
because I just don't think about that. I think about
what I want to do, and I do it, you know,
(33:34):
and if it turns out not to work out, it
didn't work out, and you know, I might get sad
about it, but at least I tried. So I just
went into it with no expectations, no pressure on myself,
just to write. Yeah. And I think that's what authors
(33:54):
need to take away from this conversation. I hope is
that write right, write what you feel you want to write.
But also keep in mind if you want to build
a readership, you have to know what your readers want
and that that develops over time.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Well, Kathleen, I thank you so much for joining today,
especially knowing how busy your schedule is I'm really thankful
to have you on just you know, before you let
us know how to get in touch with you, I'd
love to just ask if you have any future plans
for Publishing Confidential or if you're ready to just kind
of stay the course, continue mastering it the way that
you have, but any insights or things that you're excited
(34:36):
to share.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I mean, you know, the things kind of on my
you know, do someday list with it is I would
love to do branded events, you know, whether virtual or
in person. I would love to have you know, like
a Publishing Confidential mixer at some point, and hopefully if
(34:59):
I get my act together as sooner or later with this,
I would love to launch a podcast under that umbrella.
So a few things you know that I would like
to do with it, and I'm sort of arranging things
in my in you know, my business right now so
that I can carve out some time to do those things. Well.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That is exciting news. Thank you for sharing that with us.
No doubt that you will go ahead and make those
things happen. What are the best ways that people can
get in touch if they're they're interested, I guess obviously
sign up for Publishing Confidential if you're not already there, right.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
That's one way. If anybody you know is interested to
see you know what I do and services I offer,
they can go to my website which is k M
s p R dot com or email me Kathleen at
k MSPR dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
That's lean. Thank you so so much for join.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
You correct, Thank you for listening to this episode of
the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast. To reach
us and learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity
dot com or send us an email to info at
Smith Publicity dot com
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi everyone, and thank you for joining us today on
All Things Book Marketing. I am pretty excited to be
interviewing today Kathleen Schmidt. Kathleen, I'm going to hype you
up here because you are a that we've been wanting
to have on our podcast. Kathleen is a well respected
voice in book publishing as founder of Kathleen Schmidt public Relations.
(00:34):
She is a strategist who applies her in depth experience
in all aspects of the industry, including as a publicist,
literary agent, acquisitions editor, and ghostwriter to every project she
takes on. Her career encompasses thirty years of creating and
directing impactful and strategic global media, marketing and branding campaigns
(00:54):
for politicians, a list, celebrities, athletes, and high profile personalities.
To date, she has worked on fifty New York Times bestsellers.
Kathleen is the author of the widely read newsletter Publishing
Confidential on Substack and has recently received her MBA from
Southern New Hampshire University. Kathleen, thank you so much for
(01:16):
being on today.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, I really do mean it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You're a little bit of a celeb for us in
some ways, and I know it makes you chuckle because
you're on the other side of, you know, helping to
amplify other voices.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
But in all of our.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Conversations with clients, with authors, becoming a voice for community
is just so coveted, and you've really done that with
Publishing Confidential.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So, Kathe, if you could.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to
start it and what the journey has been since you
have launched it, we'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Sure. So back in two thousand sixteen early twenty seventeen,
I was between jobs and I didn't know what I
was going to do next. So I thought of writing
a newsletter and I was using Mailchimp, so it was
(02:17):
very like low tech at that point, and I named
it Publishing Confidential, and I just figured I would write
about certain issues in the industry. Years ago, for a
little while, I had a column with the Virginia Quarterly Review,
and I would write about book publishing issues. And that
(02:40):
was when my last time freelancing which was between twenty
ten twenty thirteen. So I already had a little bit
of experience you know, writing about the industry writ large
and I figured, you know, why not try this again.
I told some people I was launching it, and I
think I probably had about, I don't know, fIF email
(03:00):
addresses from colleagues and friends, and I think I only
did about three issues. And then I got a job
as a literary agent and I had to stop writing
a newsletter. Then I after being an agent for a
couple of years, I was a director of publicity at
(03:24):
Skyhorse Publishing. When I left that job in twenty twenty two.
Again I was, you know, kind of debating what my
next step was going to be, and I ended up
landing on you know, working for myself. So fast forward
to March of twenty twenty three. I just started my
(03:46):
you know PR business, PR and marketing business, and I
was like, you know, let me take a stab at this.
I had heard of sub stack, I you know, asked
my niece to create a logo for me, and off
I went. And I just I didn't pay attention to
(04:07):
who was subscribing or you know, how many subscribers I wanted.
I just wrote. I wrote what I wanted to write,
and that ended up being the best thing for me
to do because people started sharing the newsletter. And at first,
you know, I had some people with big followings on
(04:28):
Twitter share it, which helped with you know, my growth
from you know, fifty subscribers to five thousand subscribers. Then,
as you know, Twitter went in the trash can, it
became more about the content, you know, making sure the
content was something I felt like the audience wanted, but
(04:52):
also you know, creating sort of a niche for myself
where there was really no one who the experience that
I have working in house and writing a newsletter, being
really honest about what the business is like. And from
there it really grew really organically. I started getting asked
(05:20):
to be on podcasts, people who were writing publishing stories
were coming to me asking me for you know, my
input or quotes, and I started, you know, I kind
of got the hang of substack, and because I was
on Twitter pretty early on, I'm very used to what
(05:42):
the note section of the platform is like with people
posting and with you know, being very succinct and what
they post. So I started using that. I started subscribing
to a lot of other newsletters recommending them, they'd recommend
me back. And now it's grown to sixteen thousand subscribers.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So impressive. But both that does not happen overnight, right, No.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No, no, it doesn't. And yeah, and you know, the
advice that I give people often is I don't pay
attention to the numbers, because that will drive you insane.
I just write what I want to write, and I
keep in mind, you know what might resonate with my readers.
(06:31):
And the posts that do really well are the ones
that get into the nitty gritty of how certain things
work in book publishing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I will say you are spot on with that, Kathleen.
You're publishing Confidential goes out, it's quickly forwarded by whoever
gets it first, It's in all of our inboxes, and
it does become fodder even for our publicity team. Here,
publicity to be feeling like we are heard or we're
(07:04):
not alone, because here's Kathleen and she's elevated something that
we're all having a pain point with, or just bringing
in some perspective on the positives that are happening, you know,
in a landscape that's very uncertain and quite up and
down day today, So you are definitely making the points there.
(07:24):
And I will say, Kathleen, what's also been exciting for
us is how human you are in your substack or
your column. There's so much relatable content. So how do
you find and how did you even start to get
over I'm sure some of the initial fears of what
(07:45):
you're putting out there, and how do you balance the
personal narrative that you bring in which we all do like,
but not overshadow the professional insights that you're really looking
to share.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I honestly think that I fine tuned that by being
a superheuster of Twitter for so long. You know, I
found my balance there between personal and professional. And there
there came a point, you know, before Elon Musk took
(08:21):
it over where I would do these threads about you know,
book publishing and how certain things worked in book publishing,
and they'd go viral. So that was a very comfortable
spot for me to be in. And then as far
as you know, personal, I've published you know, personal essays
(08:42):
online with the Wall Street Journal and the New York
Times and a couple of other places, and so I
know my limitations, you know, I know what I don't
want to put out there and what I keep outside
you know of that because you you know, there are
certain things you can't talk about. And in my personal life,
(09:06):
you know, my limitations are pretty much I don't bring up, uh,
you know, personal stuff with my kids. I don't really
write about them that much anymore. Wrote about them when
they were little. Uh. And my husband is like completely
off limits per an agreement we made a very long
(09:28):
time ago when I started getting a bigger following on
Instagram and Twitter at that time and now threads. He
is perfectly comfortable being in the background. He is. He's
the most offline person that I know. But he did
(09:48):
agree to be interviewed for the newsletter, so that would
be very interesting.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Is that that has not yet come out.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It has not yet come out, all right, I'm interviewing
him about what it's like being married to a book publicist.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I mean, you can say a bit of an influencer again,
voice of community, as you've been. If you're not already
picking up on some of the tips that we'll get
into later, then we'll definitely narrow those down. But you're
already giving such good ideas here, Kathleen, and just sharing
your own journey, what others could anticipate? What role, and
(10:29):
you have been publishing for so long, thirty years experience,
what role do you see sub stack and these independent
platforms really playing in the evolution of publishing And how
do you see the relationships between publishers and these platforms
continuing to develop.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's a great question. And one of the things that
I see happening is that the newsletter platforms are really
becoming places to discover books where legacy media, you know,
has tremendously cut back on book coverage, and it's so competitive,
(11:11):
and it's like, you know, a lot of authors don't
realize that when you see a profile of a particular author,
it takes a long time to get that profile, and
it takes you know, that author having a substantial body
(11:35):
of work already, or you know, their first book was
a huge bestseller and their follow up is maybe five
years later, so it's highly anticipated, whereas with substack it's
more and other newsletter platforms, it's more about giving voice
to authors and books that normally probably we wouldn't get
(12:00):
covered in mainstream legacy media. So I think the relationship
between the newsletter platforms and book publishing is still developing.
I think, you know, based on my past experience in
house and talking to sales teams and trying to convince
(12:22):
them that you know, back in the day that blogs
were legitimate, you know, book coverage, I think that you know,
book publicists are probably facing that same hurdle right now,
and it's going to take a little while for buy
in to happen on other levels. I know, you know,
(12:45):
some publishers and CEOs of publishing companies are definitely on
board with with newsletter platforms, but I also know that
you know, it takes a lot of buy in from authors,
agents and people in sales to you know, consider it
(13:08):
legitimate and you know it's no, it's not a review
in the New York Times. But you'll also have to
look at and explain to them that landing in somebody's
email inbox is the most valuable thing that you can have,
because you know, I could tell you, you know, I
(13:31):
read the Times every day, read the Wall Street Journal
every day, the Washington Post every day. The book coverage
is not front and center. So you if you want something,
if you want book coverage on those platforms and you
go on either you know, the web or the app,
you have to go look for it. You have to
(13:52):
go specifically read book coverage, whereas on substock you know,
the newsletters you subscribe to and on other platforms will
most likely have you know, if you want book coverage,
it's front and center, and that's what you're looking at.
It's very you know, targeted to people who want to
(14:13):
hear about books.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, oh, Kathleen, you are saying all the right things.
And I think you've said something about the value of
the email in your inbox right, and I think for
what we're seeing as well in the conversations we're having
on you know, very similar levels. Is that the currency
of the email, right, and so when you are inviting
(14:36):
someone in your inbox, it's it's a much more it's
a much stronger connection than the scrolling of social media.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
So we are definitely you're.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Touching on it and agents and publishers starting to look
at the value of the email list and the email
list engagement over the social media following.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
So that will absolutely continue.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, if you if
you think about it, how many times are book reviews
actually getting clicked on by you know, when they appear
in legacy media. I'm not even going to talk about
the print editions of anything because circulation is so far down.
(15:21):
But if you think about that and you compare it
to you know, a sub stack that even has five
thousand subscribers, you're probably you're probably more likely to get
eyeballs on your book in that newsletter than you are
behind a paywall.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, what the riches are in the niches, right, And
that's even a lot of pcast host putting out there letters,
which is just another form of coverage opportunity. With the
increasing importance of digital platforms, How how should publicists be adapting?
And I think this is the two parter I was
(15:58):
letting you know because you obviously are a publicist, but
then you sit on the side of being a media
professional with your with your newsletter. And we have been
talking about it in the office in preparation to have
you on today, and our own team was curious about,
you know, how you choose your topics, because yes, you
(16:19):
had more autonomy in creating this platform for yourself. And
then we're the publicists on the other side, should we
be pitching them what's the best form to reach out?
Do they want to cover our topics or are they
just in the land of wanting to cover what speaks
to them. So if you could just give a little
insight on both the pr perspective of things to have
(16:41):
in mind when pitching to a creator, and then also
on the other side of how you like to.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Engage or if you're just.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
General preference is to put out what you are interested in.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It's been fascinating being on the other side of it
because I get to see publish this pitch.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, and I know it.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah. And you know, the one thing that I've noticed
is that you know, with with some publicists who pitch
me their authors, is that they don't understand my audience.
And that is really key to pitching anybody on on
(17:24):
you know, on a newsletter platform, you know form. For myself,
I am sure to you know, create relationships with other
newsletter writers so that we you know, I have I
have a network going right now with a lot of
different newsletter writers and it's almost like, you know, sometimes
(17:48):
it's a barter system, you know, where you know you're
working on X y Z, you have this, uh, you
know you'll cover this, can you cover that sort of
a thing, And that's very helpful. You know, that's kind
of an insidery sub stack kind of thing. If you
(18:10):
want to call it something, I wouldn't say it's a clique.
I would just say, you know, a lot of writers
on there communicate with each other outside of the platform.
So I've actually met a lot of newsletter writers, you know,
just like having a conversation on Zoom or you know.
(18:31):
I am a board member of Women's Media Group and
I put together a panel on uh, you know, independent journalism,
and I had two authors on who have substacks, and
then I had two independent journalists on who are not
on substack but have newsletters on other platforms. And it's
(18:54):
really about knowing what that person writes about, but also
understanding their audience. And the best way to understand the
audience is to go look at the comments and how
people are reacting to certain topics that that person writes about.
(19:14):
So there are a lot of places where you can
get books covered on substack. And you know, the one
difference with Substack versus other newsletter platforms is that you
can search topics on there. So if you search literature,
you know, you'll get a ton of newsletters that come
(19:35):
up that cover books, which is which is a great thing,
and you just have you know, it's just like pitching journalists.
You have to know their beat, you know, and you
have to also think about these days anyway, when you're
when you're talking about legacy media, you have to think
about is this something somebody is going to click on?
(19:57):
Because all of them are looking for clicks. They looking
for content that people are going to click on. It's
the same kind of thing with newsletters. So you know,
when I approach people about, you know, certain things that
I'm working on, I kind of already know that they'll
like them because they've either mentioned something similar or you know,
(20:22):
if I'm working with a particular imprint and I know
that that imprint's books have been in somebody's newsletter more
than once, then I'll focus on that person. It's still
a very you know, unwieldy way of figuring this out.
(20:45):
You know. One of my goals over the next six
months is to get a spreadsheet together of substacks and
what they cover, so that I have a tool at
my disposal to use for that. And you know, on
the flip side, the things I write about, I wish
(21:07):
I could tell you that I you know, create a
content calendar and editorial calendar or whatever. It's a lot
of the times, it's really what's on my mind on
that particular day. And sometimes I have a lot on
my mind, and that's when I do sort of the
I'm going to write a little paragraph about five different
(21:28):
publishing stories that are going on right now. And then
in other cases, people who I you know, I know casually,
whether through the publishing world or through substock will come
pitch me. And now you know, those are the people
(21:50):
I would say who get me to do stuff because
they understand my audience. So they will come to me
and say, you know, I think your readers might like this,
and they're usually right because they really do have a
good idea of what I'm writing about and what people
are reacting to. So, for example, I have I'll have
(22:13):
a newsletter next week an interview with two writers on
substack who did something genius and put together a digital
catalog of books coming out over the next few months
(22:33):
by authors who have substacks, And they did one book
on each page with a description the person substack and
their bio and I think and a bookshop dot org
link that you could buy right from that, and I
think it's brilliant. So there's that there. There will be
(22:56):
another newsletter dedicated to a new platform that sells books
but also has a a vertical where authors can build
their own websites and it's super easy to use. And
those are from people who just get what I do
and get you know, who my audience is. There are
(23:18):
other pitches I receive. Then I feel bad because I
know how hard it is for book publicists right now,
especially when it's fiction, where it's just a fiction book
and there's nothing, you know, particularly compelling about the author
and it's not And it's not that I think it's
a bad pitch, it's that it's not catered to me.
(23:41):
It's not telling me why, I why this person would
fit in with my readers, or you know, why this
person would have anything to say that would resonate with
my readers. So if you're pitching newsletter writers very much,
keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, wow, Kathleen, that sounds incredible And I can't help
but think too of the support that you're talking about
within the newsletter community. It reminds me a lot of
podcast growth as well. Yeah, podcast posts will will swap
interviews and opportunities to tap into each other's network. Yep,
under the umbrella of the same big concepts and bigger
(24:22):
themes that that cross over. That makes a lot of sense,
and that sounds like a fascinating directory that is being
put together by the I.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Was born away.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, that's next week's newsletter.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It will be in one newsletter next week.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yep, Kathleen, you've given us so many tips already. But
for authors and experts that are considering launching their own
newsletter to ensure that they can effectively contribute and add
to the conversations in motion in this ever changing landscape,
(24:58):
what are some pill or I would say, non negotiables
that you would recommend on the very front end of
starting starting a newsletter. That could be assets that they
should have in place, digital proof of their expertise. Just
tell us a little bit about you know, you're not
just jumping in and writing a blog.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, I mean, you know again, this was I learned
as I went along, as I do with a lot
of platforms that I try for the first time, and
I'm just very adaptable with technology, so I catch on quickly.
So with this, I would say, think about what it
(25:40):
is you want to put out there and what value
it brings to the reader? You know, are you solving
a problem for them? Are you creating a community of
support for a particular type of reader? Are you covering
a particular topic? And how often can you write about
(26:04):
things that fall under the umbrella of that topic? You know?
Is it sustainable? You know? I would also say, and
what I suggest to people is think, you know, kind
of workshop a title for your newsletter and when you
have that, then get get a logo professionally created or
if you're good with canva, you know, do it in
(26:27):
Canva because it looks better when you have something like that.
You know. The The other thing is, uh, you know,
your your bio on there matters because people will want
to look at like, well, who is this person and
what is there you know, what is their expertise and
how are they qualified to write about what they're writing about.
(26:50):
I did a post It was probably about like a
year a year and a half ago, and it was
all just about me, like getting to know me. So
I sort of interviewed myself about favorite bands, books, favorite jobs,
you know, all that kind of stuff, and people really
responded to it. They really liked getting to know me
(27:12):
the person. And if you look at what's happening across
the board in social media with Instagram, TikTok, you know, threads,
even Blue Sky, people want to communicate with other people online.
They you know, the parasocial relationship is real, and sometimes
(27:37):
that could be a very negative thing, but sometimes it's
very positive. And people, you know, people want to connect
with the person who is writing the newsletter. So you know,
one thing that I do, I do respond to comments.
(27:57):
I do make sure that you know, people I get
to have a conversation with me in the comments. That's
that's really important. So it's also about you know, I
call it tending your garden. And that's what the comments
section on your newsletter really is. It's like a garden,
and sometimes you have you know, you have to read it.
(28:20):
And that's okay. I've had to black people before, not many, thankfully,
but you have to, you know, you have to be
able to look at your comments section see what's going
on there, but also look at your metrics and see
what's working and what's not working, you know, And and
that's also a driver of content because if I see
(28:43):
that my views and my open rate was really low
for a particular newsletter, I might not do a newsletter
like that again, or write about that topic again, or
maybe write about it in a different way. Whereas you know,
something you know, the one I did last week about
how much does book publicity cost? That that did huge
(29:04):
numbers for me, clearly something clearly something every you know,
people wanted to understand and and to know about. And
you know, it is also my way of having solidarity
with other publicists because you know, people balk at the
prices we charge, but they don't understand the costs that
(29:25):
we take on. So you know, if you're thinking about
writing a newsletter, content is king. You know, have content
that people can engage with, ask you questions about, pass
along to other people, because it's it's worth sharing something
that you said. Do a search on substack on the
(29:46):
topic that you want to write about, see who's already
in that space, what they're doing, how they're doing it,
how you can be different from that person. And again,
you know, don't focus so much on how many subscribers
you're gaining or losing. Just keep going. And you know
the other part of this that I would say is
(30:08):
you're more likely to see growth if you don't put
a paywall on it right away.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So smart, Kathleen. That makes a lot of sense. That
makes a lot of sense with the evolution here and
just the pressure. I think that a lot of authors
and experts will feel in forming their network and staying engaged.
We know consistency is so important. What consistency metrics do
(30:39):
you recommend for individuals kind of starting out? And how
have you seen? How did you come up with your
own consistency? I guess did you always have it once?
Is it once a week or every other week?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
It's once a week? Sometimes you know when something else
is going on, like when that whole Bill Belichick pr
disaster was happening, people got a couple he.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Could they were great. It was our minds.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But usually one free one a week and then every
Friday I do uh And I will give my husband
one hundred percent credit for coming up with this book
therapy on Fridays where paid subscribers get to ask me
questions about the industry and I answer them. That was
his brainchild. Yes, well, you see the thing with him
(31:35):
is that he's a music industry executive, so he is
also he is very much on the business end of
the music industry, but he started out as a creative
and you know, so he he started out in marketing,
but he's more in the legal part of it now
and he always has really good ideas. So I took
(31:58):
that and I was like, you know what, that's really good.
I'm going to do that. And then, you know, like,
there are certain weeks where I'm just not feeling it.
This is one of those weeks. I have a lot
on my mind. There are a lot of topics I
want to get to, but you know, I'm short on
time this week, and it's just not going to happen.
(32:19):
And you have to be okay with that. You have
to give yourself some compassion for that. And I'd rather
write a really good newsletter than do something really short
and meaningless and just like toss away. So I try
to keep myself on schedule and do it once a week.
I do not have a set date a day of
(32:39):
the week that I send it out on. I try
to do it by Wednesday though most times.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, throughout this whole conversation, it's just so evident how
human all of this really is.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
The building up.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, right, I love that you said giving yourself grace
for the days that you don't feel you can show up,
rather than kind of just running through content just for
the sake of getting something out.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And I think that's what people need to hear because it.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Is intimidating, intimidating to think of how to start the journey.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, and you know I am. I'm not a risk
averse person. I should say that, so you know that
it didn't even the thought didn't even enter my head
that this might not work when I started doing it,
because I just don't think about that. I think about
what I want to do, and I do it, you know,
(33:34):
and if it turns out not to work out, it
didn't work out, and you know, I might get sad
about it, but at least I tried. So I just
went into it with no expectations, no pressure on myself,
just to write. Yeah. And I think that's what authors
(33:54):
need to take away from this conversation. I hope is
that write right, write what you feel you want to write.
But also keep in mind if you want to build
a readership, you have to know what your readers want
and that that develops over time.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Well, Kathleen, I thank you so much for joining today,
especially knowing how busy your schedule is I'm really thankful
to have you on just you know, before you let
us know how to get in touch with you, I'd
love to just ask if you have any future plans
for Publishing Confidential or if you're ready to just kind
of stay the course, continue mastering it the way that
you have, but any insights or things that you're excited
(34:36):
to share.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I mean, you know, the things kind of on my
you know, do someday list with it is I would
love to do branded events, you know, whether virtual or
in person. I would love to have you know, like
a Publishing Confidential mixer at some point, and hopefully if
(34:59):
I get my act together as sooner or later with this,
I would love to launch a podcast under that umbrella.
So a few things you know that I would like
to do with it, and I'm sort of arranging things
in my in you know, my business right now so
that I can carve out some time to do those things. Well.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That is exciting news. Thank you for sharing that with us.
No doubt that you will go ahead and make those
things happen. What are the best ways that people can
get in touch if they're they're interested, I guess obviously
sign up for Publishing Confidential if you're not already there, right.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
That's one way. If anybody you know is interested to
see you know what I do and services I offer,
they can go to my website which is k M
s p R dot com or email me Kathleen at
k MSPR dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
That's lean. Thank you so so much for join.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
You correct, Thank you for listening to this episode of
the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast. To reach
us and learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity
dot com or send us an email to info at
Smith Publicity dot com
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