December 4, 2025 • 44 mins
Crafting Genuine Connections and Building Thought Leadership on LinkedIn with Owen Sammarone
In this episode of the All Things Book Marketing podcast by Smith Publicity, this episode’s host Marissa Eigenbrood, Smith Publicity’s President, interviews Owen Sammarone, founder of Unleash the Knowledge—a personal branding and ghostwriting agency.
Owen shares his journey from a non-reader to an influential content creator with a 200,000-follower community. The discussion centers on how founders, executives, and authors can leverage LinkedIn to build their brands, emphasizing the importance of authentic, value-driven content and genuine human connections.
Owen also offers practical tips on avoiding automated 'pitch slapping,' using AI judiciously, and nurturing relationships through personalized engagement. As they reflect on their longstanding professional relationship, Marissa and Owen explore actionable strategies to enhance online presence and drive business growth, stressing the significance of maintaining a human touch in the increasingly digital landscape.
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
01:00 Meet Owen Sammarone : Founder of Unleash the Knowledge
04:17 Owen's Journey: From Non-Reader to Book Enthusiast
05:13 Building a Community and Personal Brand
15:00 The Power of Niching Down
18:27 Effective LinkedIn Strategies
24:03 The Value of Giving Without Expectation
25:11 Personalized Outreach Strategies
27:35 The Role of AI in LinkedIn Engagement
29:14 Maximizing LinkedIn's Potential
34:37 Effective Connection Requests
38:33 The Billboard Analogy for LinkedIn Profiles
44:24 Looking Ahead to 2026: Staying Human in a Digital World
Owen Sammarone is the founder and CEO of Unleash The Knowledge, a personal-branding and thought-leadership agency that helps B2B founders, consultants, and executives turn their LinkedIn presence into a powerful, consistent driver of authority. He’s become known in the industry as a go-to “LinkedIn Growth Guy,” offering insights on how to turn content into consistent inbound demand, build authority, and scale influence — whether you’re an author, consultant, or executive looking to expand your impact
Smith Publicity is an international book publicity firm specializing in non-fiction, business, lifestyle and thought-leadership projects. Since 1997, they have helped authors and experts amplify their voices, reach the right audiences, and make a meaningful impact through media placements, strategic campaigns, and expert guidance. For more information visit Smith Publicity.
In this episode of the All Things Book Marketing podcast by Smith Publicity, this episode’s host Marissa Eigenbrood, Smith Publicity’s President, interviews Owen Sammarone, founder of Unleash the Knowledge—a personal branding and ghostwriting agency.
Owen shares his journey from a non-reader to an influential content creator with a 200,000-follower community. The discussion centers on how founders, executives, and authors can leverage LinkedIn to build their brands, emphasizing the importance of authentic, value-driven content and genuine human connections.
Owen also offers practical tips on avoiding automated 'pitch slapping,' using AI judiciously, and nurturing relationships through personalized engagement. As they reflect on their longstanding professional relationship, Marissa and Owen explore actionable strategies to enhance online presence and drive business growth, stressing the significance of maintaining a human touch in the increasingly digital landscape.
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
01:00 Meet Owen Sammarone : Founder of Unleash the Knowledge
04:17 Owen's Journey: From Non-Reader to Book Enthusiast
05:13 Building a Community and Personal Brand
15:00 The Power of Niching Down
18:27 Effective LinkedIn Strategies
24:03 The Value of Giving Without Expectation
25:11 Personalized Outreach Strategies
27:35 The Role of AI in LinkedIn Engagement
29:14 Maximizing LinkedIn's Potential
34:37 Effective Connection Requests
38:33 The Billboard Analogy for LinkedIn Profiles
44:24 Looking Ahead to 2026: Staying Human in a Digital World
Owen Sammarone is the founder and CEO of Unleash The Knowledge, a personal-branding and thought-leadership agency that helps B2B founders, consultants, and executives turn their LinkedIn presence into a powerful, consistent driver of authority. He’s become known in the industry as a go-to “LinkedIn Growth Guy,” offering insights on how to turn content into consistent inbound demand, build authority, and scale influence — whether you’re an author, consultant, or executive looking to expand your impact
Smith Publicity is an international book publicity firm specializing in non-fiction, business, lifestyle and thought-leadership projects. Since 1997, they have helped authors and experts amplify their voices, reach the right audiences, and make a meaningful impact through media placements, strategic campaigns, and expert guidance. For more information visit Smith Publicity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hi, and welcome to the latest episode of the All
Things Book Marketing podcast from Smith Felicity.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm your host today. It was changed up a little
little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm your host today Marissa Eigenbrud, President and partner of
Smith Publicity, and I'm so excited to have John Demato
here to join us. Thanks so much for joining us. Well,
this is really exciting and chilly October day.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
John, Thank you for the invitation, Marisa, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So I'm going to give a little bit of a
bio on John first, and then we're going to dive
into some awesome questions. I'll tell you all about how
we met John too. So John is a visual storytelling
strategists and photographer who helps the faces of their businesses
open doors to more clients, higher fees, and bigger opportunities
before they even say a word.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love that. I love that. The summary of it all.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Over eight years, he's collaborated with professional speakers, authors, coaches, founders,
and consultants across more than a dozen industries. After a
decade producing for NBC, Universal and Yahoo, John's delivered a
quarter million photos.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
That's a lot of pictures, through two.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Hundred and twenty plus branding sessions, three hundred and fifty
plus live events, and countless moments of transformation. John teaches
that photos aren't nice to have their visual evidence. Working
around the clock creating instant credibility and genuine uniqueness, He's
obsessed with helping clients transform from blending into the crowd
(01:44):
to becoming an unmistakable market of one. John, that is
a very impactful bio you have there.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm exhausted just listening to it because I've lived it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You've lived it, and you know, with one thing, when
we're in our work and publicity, you know we're going
to say, oh, all these media placements and stuff, we
did that from from our desk most of the time
from a computer and we're just hammered away at the keyboard.
But you know, as a photographer, this is a physical,
you know job that you have. Of course the editing
and stuff, and you come back to it, but I
love that you know, so much of this is a
(02:19):
being with someone and you know, how are your knees
from like getting all those like low great angles sometimes too.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
It's it's funny you bring that up, because I was
just about to mention the fact that the most important
piece of equipment that I bring with me wherever I go,
whether it's on a plane to a gig or a
local gig, is a knee pad.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah. Oh, I'm sure after that many sessions, that many photos,
you got to take care of the old knees.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And as we age too, they always seem to go.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
First, right, especially mine.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
The oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Oh well again, thank you so much for joining us, John,
and uh, just as I said before, I wanted to
share a little backstory of how we connected, which is
actually a bit multi layered. It was you and I
connected over over LinkedIn. Initially I saw a post where
you were. You were I think, tagged and sharing images
from I believe it was was it Impact eleven event
(03:22):
or was an NSA as? Yeah, So I saw that
I reached out to you on LinkedIn. I was like,
I got to know this guy. We've got to connect.
This could be a great resource for so many of
our author speakers, you know, the slashies that we work with.
And then I come back and I we schedule a
call together, and my colleague looks at the calendar, my
(03:42):
calendar and says, wait.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
A second, I just met John Tomato.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
When we were at NSA because we had Careen and
Janet from our team uh there this year and so
and you had a chance to meet with them and talk.
And Karen was like, yeah, see somebody that we have
to know, we have to talk to more.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So here we are.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The universe was just sending us all these messages that
we had to come together.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Here we are.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Indeed, yeah, it's it's funny that I didn't put that
together and then and then oh yeah, well you know
what it was meant it was meant to be in here.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It was here we are. Here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So, you know, we've talked to individuals on this podcast
from so many different you know, kind of facets of
the publishing world, of the speaking world, and we have
not had someone who has joined us who's a photographer
and who really is a visual storyteller as you are.
And so I'd love us start up and just tell us,
give us the cliffs notes a couple of minutes on
(04:39):
how you got here with this line of work.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Well, once upon a time.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I took a class in graduate school when I was
getting my MFA and television production and my last semester,
I needed an elective and I looked at the list
and I saw thirty five millimeters black and white photography,
and I thought to myself, I don't need to shoot
sound and I only have to shoot one frame at
(05:08):
a time. This sounds like a layup. I'm gonna take it.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah, right, And that was a good elective.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
The thing about it is, while it was an elective
and it was the last semester of me ever being
in school, it was the best class I ever took.
It was one of the most amazing experiences being in
the dark room and developing and working with the chemicals.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
And all that stuff. Yeah, Ultimately.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
I put that on the back burner because then I
started my career as a film producer with Maury and
I worked there for nine years and then did the
freelance stuff with Yahoo and some other independent clients. But
ultimately grew a bit resentful of video production and I
kind of harkened back to photography. Was a headshot photographer
(06:00):
on the side while working in TV, and then ultimately
I had my come to Jesus my mom, and my
mom passed away, and I realized that if I were
in her position right now, I'd feel pretty resentful of
how I lived my life and what I did. So
I just jumped out the window quit decided to go
(06:20):
full time as a photographer, and spent about three years
during what I categorized as my creative crisis, by shut
everything under the sun, being a jack of all trades,
just trying to make a check. But what ended up
ultimately happening is I realized I need to learn how
(06:43):
to run a business, how to market myself. I didn't
know what the hell I was doing, so I would
go to these networking events and barter and get exposure,
but really was being introduced to the world of business
owners and how they do things and one online and
then discovered this world of keynote speaking, where people actually
(07:06):
make a living on stage talking. I had no idea
that that existed. Yeah, but what I realized is I
could kill two birds with one stone, because I could
learn from them and at the same time make a living,
and this time working in a place where it feels
really fulfilling because these people help others and one of
(07:29):
my objectives in life is to help those who help others,
and the way that I do that is with my
camera and with my brain strategizing with them on how
to not just capture these photos but actually what to
do with them. Yeah, and over the course of the
past eight years, I've iterated and developed and added certain
(07:54):
things and different products and services based on the people
that I work with with and what they have told
me that they needed. So what once started basically is
a branding photography business is now a full scope of
branding and events and books, virtual and you know, other
(08:18):
types of imagery as well as the strategy implementation and
in some cases for my client's content creation. So it's yeh,
been quite a it's quite a journey, quite.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A journey, but it sounds like you're you're You're where
you're meant to be in the end. And uh and
with again so much enjoyment and passion and purpose and
what you're doing now too, and like you said, being
able to represent the work that is impactful that others
are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think we share that very much.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We are the behind the scenes people all here, you know,
and and the work that we do as well, we're
the behind the scenes cheerleaders and amplifying you know, those
those important voices, those ideas, those stories that might come
through a book through our work. But as you know,
and again because we met at NSA with our our connections,
there so many of those that we work with, our
(09:13):
speakers or our hopeful speakers, or our consultants and coaches
or executives and such too, and so you know it
is it's really fulfilling, and it sounds like it is
very much for you too in that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah, I mean, the word obsession is in my bio,
not because I thought it was cool, but it's true. Yeah,
the unquenchable thirst to get better and to iterate and
to be more valuable and to refine and and to
really zone in on what these folks need is is
(09:49):
my purpose. And it's a really magical intersection of my
art and monetizing it in a way that creates massive
value people for people.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Who is a wonderful place to be.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Oh, that's that's beautiful job.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I want to dive into some of these kind of
like nitty gritty details of things and that guys, as
we've discussed, so many of those that we work with
are usually preparing for a book launch or they've just
launched a book. So a book is somewhere in the
brand ecosystem of it all. But rarely, you know, are
we working with someone where they only need one picture
(10:26):
of their book and one headshot. You know, they are
their build, they have a website, they have social presence,
they have other marketing channels through which they need regular
visual content to be able to share. So when you're
working with someone, I would love to kind of hear
both sides of it. You're working with someone who is,
you know, either kind of wanting to grow as a
speaker or is establishing wanting to level up as a speaker,
(10:49):
and they say, okay, I want to bring down.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I need to refresh everything here.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What are like the you know, the four or five
or whatever number you feel is appropriate. They're like key shots,
key elements, key like stories that you think are important
to tell through those photos.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And then i'd love to have.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Like the one a of it is the book, so
let's add in the book. And I love you use
the word book boudoir when we were talking, like like,
I'd love to hear those key shots that you think
are so important to have and the stories to tell
about the book too.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
So before we dive into the nitty gritty, what's actually
most important is to create the overall context of what
an expert needs. Because if you don't have a strategy
and are non intentional about executing on that strategy as
a wholesale ecosystem, you're creating massive gaps. And what I
(11:45):
mean by that is no one photo of the book
and what photo of you is not going to work.
In this day and age, we live in an intention
economy and we have ai slop left and right, and
there's nine thousand other people that talk about what you
talk about. Therefore, the opportunity to become invisible, the opportunity
(12:08):
to blend in like wallpaper and not be seen by
those that can really benefit from your particular flavor of.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Expertise is very high.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
As a result, this ecosystem I'm referring to is what
I call a visual storytelling library, and it has three components.
The first one is the core assets. Now you mentioned
the headshot that is part of the core assets. But
what also is important is to have a breath of
(12:41):
wider portraits, ones where you're displaying more of your body
as opposed to the tightly cropped headshot where you're making
direct eye contact. Your core assets all make direct eye contact.
That's what goes in your press kit, that's what goes
on your one sheets, that's what's on your website, your
social profiles. Fill in the blank where you need to
(13:01):
make eye contact digitally with your audience to that initial connection.
That's the first piece. Second piece is visual evidence.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
The is it the.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Photos that capture you in the act of doing the
thing you do for your people, and it shows that
you've done it before, you've done it recently and for
people just like them.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Now.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
That includes images of you work in solo, your process,
How is the sausage made behind the scenes, What does
your research look like, your brainstorming, the work before the work.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
We need to see that.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
And then we also need to see what it looks
like when you're in front of people who pay you money.
Whether it's on a stage, on a screen, whether it's
on your phone, whether it's in a boardroom you're using
a whiteboard, flip charts, slides, handouts, online course.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We need to see the visual evidence of that in
professional photos. And then we have the missing details. That
is where your book comes into play. That's the war
stuff that we do because while a digital cover, you know,
it checks a box, it doesn't exactly, you know, excite
(14:23):
anybody's attention because of the fact that it's a two
dimensional piece. What you're trying to do is really drum
up some interest by actually showcasing what is actually inside
the book so they can preview the book in their
hands through their eyes right now. In addition to the
book other ip that you have, what are like the
(14:48):
other missing details, the professional markers of achievement or other
pieces that showcase your expertise. Those details need to be
seen and shared as well as the personal pieces, the
stuff outside of the work. And the reason why we
(15:11):
want to share some of those missing details is because
at the end of the day, people buy from people,
and we are in the business of building relationships. If
you are a service business owner, and as a result,
you have to connect with people beyond just the work.
You don't want to be the superhero, you know, on
(15:32):
the top.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Of the mountain all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
You have to showcase that you're relatable and relevant on
a human being level.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And that's why.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
It's important to showcase that uniqueness of your personality through
those pieces and along with all of those professional photos
for the visual evidence and for the missing details component.
It's not just professional photos because unless if you have
a pop barazzi following you around twenty four to seven,
(16:03):
which unless if you're Gary Vee or Tony Robbie right,
you don't. But moments that happen in your day, whether
it's behind the scenes of your laptop while you're working
on something, or you're with a client, or you're just
taking a walk down the street and something inspires you
and you want to share a story about it, or
(16:25):
you have a hobby or you do stuff with community
based activities that you're really passionate about. You take those
photos of those things and you share them so that
it fills in the gaps of the professional images, the
core assets, the visual evidence, the missing details with smartphone
(16:48):
photos of those things, and that really is what paints
the broader picture. It is what positions you apart from
everybody else, and the when you're showing yourself in action
and doing all of this stuff and posting consistently and
keeping your photos current and relevant, you look in demand,
(17:09):
You look premium, and you look like you're worth every
single penny you charge.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
M Oh my gosh, so many great points there, John,
and gosh, I haveing so excited that, you know, just
a little insider information that we've been talking about the
Smith Publicity website and redoing that, and excited about talking
to John about his support with with our brand as
well too, because there's so much storytelling that we can do,
and it just my mind goes in so many directions
(17:37):
for us and for those that we work with in
the incredible you know, the strategy that you bring to this,
it is you know, I first truly, it's so much
fun and you're I know, truly the first person I've
talked to photographers.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I've talked to others in the past.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And no one really speaks about the power of these
visual visual collateral the way that you do, and it's
so inspiring.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Here's the thing, Marissa, and this is not the fault
of any expert whatsoever, because you're busy being the person
you are in transforming the lives of those you serve,
and that's a lot of work. But the truth is
most experts, where they fail or where the big mistake
(18:25):
is is thinking that I just need a couple of
good shots. I'll update this every couple of years. It's
a nice to have.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I'll use stock.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Photos all over the website, or I'll invest in some
graphics and it'll look really cool and maybe I'll have
one photo. And the reality is that in this world
we live in today, that is not going to work
because people are starving to connect with other folks on
(19:01):
a real level, especially especially considering the fact that the
people that they're connecting with, the clients of the experts
have a problem that they need to solve, and you
want to know that they can trust this person, that
(19:22):
they have the track record to help them, and the
fact that they can stomach being with them in a
room or on a zoom for an extended period of time.
To be able to get the work done, there has
to be that rapport, and as a result, you have
to be able to get their attention to pattern, interrupt
(19:43):
them just long enough so that they actually read all
of the value that you can provide them that you're
displaying your expertise. Otherwise, if you're just posting, you know,
stock photos or things that are seventy five years old
and added data and it feels really stale, They're not
(20:04):
going to stop, They're going to keep rolling. Yeah, it's
on you to be able to put yourself in the
position to do the thing that you do best.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It is it is you mentioned in there that you
know you say someone says, oh, yeah, I just updated
every every couple of years. I'd love to hear because
working with you, working with you know, really building out
the strategy and working to get all these visual assets,
it is certainly going.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
To be an investment.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And when you know, so many the individuals are working with,
if they're coming in with their their book launch, they're
talking about okay, I'm and they have long term goals
for speaking and business opportunities and such too, because that's
something that we're always talking about.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's like we would I'd rather work.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
With someone who they see their book as a catalyst
for those other things than necessarily just solely focused on
how well the book does that launched, But a dual
combination or just the former of the two is preferred
and the way that we work, and so if they're
someone is looking at hey, I want to everything that
I'm investing in is not just for the book, of course,
but it is for the brand and the longer term,
(21:06):
and I'm kind of you know, diving into working with
a publicity agency. You might need a social media manager.
I need to build out, you know, or update a website,
and they want to bring on someone like yourself too.
How often do you feel it's important that they kind
of circle back to then working with you again?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Like how you know how you're like, oh, yeah, every
every month.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
They could work with it now, but like and realistically,
how because especially for speaker, something that I've heard before
is that you want to create a keynote that can
last for.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
At least two to three years.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You want and you might tweak it a little bit
here and there that could apply to an audience. Maybe
your example is just a little bit different or something,
But really, truly you want to have this referrable speech
as we hear from Michael Port from a Herold public
speaking all the time. You know, you want to have
that that speech that just keeps going for you because
you've worked so hard on it and so thinking about
(21:57):
all the strategy and the investment in the time is
going to go into these assets. How long do you
feel that it's appropriate that they that they last or
are there like little moments along the way where you say, oh, yeah,
I just you need a mini session if you will.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Well, so you know, we have three different components to
the library. But the high level piece to that is
the fact that it's ever evolving every single day. Not
necessarily the professional images, but the smartphone images are ongoing,
recurring over and over and over again. But if we
(22:33):
just talk about each of the categories of imagery, your
core assets, generally speaking, you'll get a year or so
out of it. It really depends upon the fact that
do you still look like the person that's in the photos?
Is it indicative of your brand still? And do you
(22:55):
recognize yourself and those images? Not physically, but you look
at those photos and you say to yourself, yeah, that
I'm like I have evolved as a business, as a
human being. You may look the same, but when you
look at them, they don't resonate in the same way
that it's time to get new stuff. That's for the
(23:16):
core assets, visual evidence, for the professional images. What are
the rooms that you're working in where what does your
solo work look like? Has that evolved? Have you changed
your process? Have you added stuff? Have you created new
services and products that have to be accounted for. Have
(23:36):
you graduated from you know, airwalled small room breakouts to
big keynote stages with imags and smoke machines and laser lights.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
You know, right, you have to.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
It's you know, one of the things that you always
have to keep in mind is if you want to
show people what it looks like when you're in the
room with them, you have to show them the rooms.
And by the way, one of the other things to
a little segue here, but related to visual evidence and
keynotes and events in general, it's not enough to simply
(24:16):
get the wide shot of the room, whether it's a
boardroom of twenty people, or you're doing a workshop with
one hundred people, or there's ten thousand people in the
audience and you're the tiny little peanut in the bottom
in the back of the screen. Yeah, those photos are
important for credibility, absolutely, But what also is important for
credibility is the stuff that happens before the event and
(24:39):
the stuff that happens after the event, meaning what does
the setup look like. You know, for example, for a keynote,
let's just take some very important visual assets to have
in order to connect more with the event producers and
other decision makers that potentially hire you. Is to show
(25:02):
that you care enough, that you're passionate about what you do,
and that you're a team player. So that means showcase
you working with the av team, going over your slides,
going through tech check, rehearsing, backstage time.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, all of.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
The people that are connected to that event that you know,
we see that you are engaging. You're not just sitting
in the corner and doing nothing right. You're actually you're
You're a living, breathing part of this whole process, and
you're someone that's easy to work with. We need to
see those images, and the rehearsing stuff shows that you care,
(25:38):
so we want to see that. Then we get the
stuff during the event. Yes, the white shots are important,
but what you also want is a breadth of images
from all vantage points, showcasing close ups of you passionately
delivering your message. We want to see audience participation. We
(25:59):
want to see them taking notes, asking questions. We want
to see whatever your act outs are, all of the
different pieces that are involved during You need all of
that too. And then afterwards, if there's a book signing,
which many of your listeners will inevitably do have done
is photograph that entire exchange and not just you close
(26:24):
up signing or you handing a book. It's the whole experience,
with the selfies, the hugs, the conversations, the smiles, the tears.
I was I was shooting an event in Atlanta not
too long ago, and the amount of tears after that
that speech was incredible and I'm just like wow, just shooting.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All yeah, oh my god. So the impact.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Exactly, exactly exactly, and it's it. And what that does
is again, it paints the broader picture for your own
audience of decision makers that are determining whether you or
someone else is the right fit. So in fifty to
fifty calls, when you're painting that type of story and
(27:11):
you're imparting all of these words and really meaningful captions
that you're putting, oh that's either copy on your website
or in a newsletter or on social those photos are
going to visually punctuate the sentiment of those stories in
a way that helps you stand out in the same
(27:31):
way with the missing details. You know, you're getting awards
or you're getting some type of recognition or anything. You're
bringing in new people on your team, show all of
that stuff show the fact that you're evolving and growing
because it keeps you relevant, it keeps you on people's radars.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It makes an invested.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
All of this together, you know, ever evolving library of
images is really the secret sauce to be able to
give you that business infrastructure that works twenty four to seven.
When you're sleep and a decision maker is up at
three o'clock in the morning looking at LinkedIn pages and
(28:17):
one sheets and all this stuff you do not have
a say and who gets to be talked about in
the meeting the next morning.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
You need that. You need that.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Opportunity to be able to pitch without opening your mouth.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And this is how you do it.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
That's so cool. Yeah, I I.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Gosh, I mean so many great points are done and
I I really you know, I think that that when oh,
when speakers are you know, they're when they'regain, when they're
they're kind of that that stage of I've been doing
it for a bit. A lot of times we look
(29:01):
at price ranges and stuff of the kind of where
they are. So when someone's been doing it for a bit,
maybe they're in that five to ten to fifteen range
or so, and you know, they're like, I, you know,
there's like I don't, I don't need these kind of
things yet.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I don't. I don't need to.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I'm still building, I'm still working my way up and
all of that. But I think that no matter what
stage someone is at the way you're describing it, like
everyone either you need it from day one that you
want to be a speaker. And that is exactly why
you need to keep it updated over time too, is
because it's delivering the impact, the value, the types of
rooms that you're in. And so if you are that
(29:37):
zero to five thousand, you know dollar speaker to start,
you still need it because you just need visual assets
to start off point because you probably don't have any yet.
Let's deliver where we are now. And if that means
that you're speaking the chambers of commerce in your town,
or that you're speaking to you know, really niche industry
events to get started with, or you're going to universities
to speak whatever it looks like like, you still to
(30:00):
show what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And then when you start.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
To open that door open, so those first bigger stages
and we want to create from the five to the
ten to the fifteen, like you said, I love that
we were Like, the last thing you want is for
someone to go to the social the website, all of
that and see that you're only speaking the chambers of
commerce and you know, and small business associations and universities,
because that's not the stages that you want to be
(30:24):
on moving forward and you want.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
To keep moving toward. Here's the thing, let me it
just keeps going up from there.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Yeah, and you don't want to delete any of the
journey you want yes to say, because if there's one
thing that that creates is added credibility because of the
fact that it shows that you've been putting in the
work and it shows that you care. And while you
know it wouldn't be relevant for a three day conference
(30:53):
to hire or not relevant, but you know they're looking
for more seasoned speakers and they don't want to see
someone that just does Knights of Columbus. But what they
do on is the fact that you have put in
the work to be able to hone your skills to
get to a level where you are on those stages
and you are ready and you can be trusted with
(31:13):
our audience.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it's important to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
And you know you brought up a point with with
price points and you know the zero to five K
or five to fifteen K. Here's the thing, the architecture
of the visual storytelling library is create is structured in
a way that if you can only afford certain types
of investments, there are priorities that need to be made
(31:41):
and you know, your core assets are an absolute must.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And if you were to have.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
To spend you know, some money, first it would be
on that. That is your foundation. It begins and ends there.
The next piece is getting into that first two or
three rooms of what it looks like whether you're coaching
someone you know, group coaching or workshops or whatever that is.
(32:08):
You just get that one gig for each of the
different types of rooms you're in and get the variety.
And yes, you don't want to share the same event
the same shots fifty thousand times over because.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You're in one room you don't look busy. But here's
the thing.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
You have to start somewhere, and your website needs to
reflect what it looks like in the room. And really
the thing about that also is you know you can't
sleep on the phone shots. The phone shots fill it in,
especially when the phone photos come from the people that
(32:50):
are in the rooms that you're in, because that, oh yeah,
that adds a lot of credibility. And when you're in
a place where you can't afford to spend and you know,
over the course of the year, you know, ten fifteen,
twenty grand on a bunch of professional images branding your
event stuff, that stuff really is invaluable because it keeps
(33:12):
you on people's radars. You're getting the words from the
horse's mouth of all that you're serving, and you're still
sprinkling in the professional stuff that's very genuine and it
positions you as an expert. So you have to start somewhere.
You have to be intentional and strategic about it. And
(33:35):
over time, that's when you start investing more in your
visual storytelling and really pumping it out there in a
way that's going to start getting you from fifteen to
twenty to twenty five to doing five to six figure
contracts for your coaching or consulting. But you got to
start somewhere, and you have to be intentional about it
(33:57):
from jump.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So if we're talking about starting from somewhere and someone's
looking for the right photographer to work with and they
are you know, again no matter what stage they are,
but wherever they're at, they're like, yeah, I need to
bring someone in. What are your tips for outside of
like everybody should go to be working with John? What
are your tips for hiring the right photographer?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
The first piece is do not hire a photographer simply
through a referral and emailing back and forth. That is
a recipe for disaster. Why because you do not know
if you are going to get along with this person.
And the secret sauce to any shoot, whether it's a
(34:41):
fully controlled branding session or whether it's an event session,
you need to know that there's a rapport between you twoe.
Otherwise you are not going to be comfortable in front
of the camera.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
And guess what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Those photos are going to get deleted because it's going
to be written all over your face.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
You're going to hate all of them and you're never
going to use them.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Therefore, have a rapport with your photographer. The next thing is,
while figuring out and qualifying them on a discovery call,
identify whether or not this person has worked with people
like you in the past. In the same way that
experts need to convey that they've done the work recently. Yeah,
(35:25):
I've done it well and done it for people just
like them. You need to know if they have their
strategy had on and they understand not just getting pretty
photos but getting strategic photos that have very very specific
marketing purposes, meaning they get enough a variety of all
(35:46):
of the different types of imagery that can be used
so that you're not using the same three to five
photos over and over again, and that they are open
to whether or not the expert is well versed in
you know, visual storytelling to get some guidance in terms
(36:10):
of the types of images that they do need. And
another key piece with the photographer to work with is
the delivery time and the amount of deliverables that they get.
You don't want to work with a photographer that is
going to only offer ten, fifteen, twenty photos. That is
(36:33):
a headshot photographer that is not a photographer for experts.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
It's two things.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Unless you just literally need a headshot for something when
you're doing a branding session, to get those core assets,
the visual evidence and those missing details, you need as
many images as you can possibly get and do not
retouch them. You don't want a photographer that's going to
retouch them because you have to look like the person
you are in your photos you are in really, because
(37:01):
if you don't, you are going to break the trust
between you and the people that you serve because they
don't know who the hell you are in those photos
based on you walking in the room.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
So, yeah, these are things.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The last point is so important there, John, because like,
so what I would take and not being an expert
in cameras or photography all on it, but like that
would mean that you really need to make sure that
there's so much retouching that's done today and there's so
much reliance on that as a crutch a bit I
feel sometimes too in it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
So you're really I think.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I mean not to say that someone who's asked, like
what cameras do you use or such would know the
right thing, but like I think that's what it would
be is you need to have not only someone who
has the right equipment, but also has the like you
want someone who has the right eye for being able
to capture those images and a skill to capture those
images so that they don't need retouching too, right.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I mean, at the end of the day, you need
a photographer that has the right mindset that understands what
the goals of this session is. It's not I want
to pad my portfolio and shoot amazing photos and just
you know, have like this really bright and like you know,
contrived scenarios where people are like want and confetti in
(38:20):
the air, and like you want they want. You need
images that are genuine to how you are received by
your audience, and you want to convey your personality and
show them exactly in a fly on the wall experience
what your world looks like and what they would experience
if they were in that world period. There is no show,
(38:44):
there's no nothing else.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It is that.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
And in terms of retouching or optimizing the images, yeah,
you want flattering photos. You don't want like, you know,
a coffee stain on a shirt. You don't want to
like intention and only like have your eyes closed or
anything like that. But in terms of shaving twenty years
off of your face and thirty pounds off your body
(39:09):
is an absolute no no because because at the end
of the day, people are by default trying to say no, no, no,
I got a bad vibe. You want that pposit of
first impression. You want it to be genuine, you want
to create a pattern and interrupt in people's day in
(39:30):
the most authentic way possible, because that sets the table
for them to subconsciously treat you as someone that ultimately
they can connect with and trust enough to pay you
money to help solve their problem.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
So we're coming to the end here, John, I you know,
we're not a sposed to have favorite children at all,
you know, on our work, but we all do. I
would just love to hear, like, tell me a little
bit about some of your your name names if you want,
or just at least maybe give general information. I'd love
to hear about one of your favorite kind of individuals
that you've worked with, maybe over time or just like
(40:10):
one one time that you work with somebody.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I would love to hear about it.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Oh, man, there's too many. I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I'm gonna be upset when I'll tell.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
You his story.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
So last night I did a bookstore signing shoot with
one of my longtime clients. His name is Mike Goldman,
and we oldlin of ours too.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Mike is a friend. Well yeah, he's a great guy
and he.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Just put a book out and last night during his
uh in store, he skipped the Q and a and
what he did was talk about the people that have
mentored him, and for him, his two biggest mentors were
his wife and his son, and he gave this really
(41:05):
heartfelt story and then he invited about five of the
participants in the audience to share theirs and it was
a really touching moment, and I thought to myself, you know,
who are my mentors? So this morning I wrote a
post and shared a bunch of the photos, and you know,
(41:26):
my answer was him and all of the people that
I work with because of the fact that I have
this privilege and honor that I spoke about earlier in
this conversation about learning from folks and being inspired to
basically get off my ass and stay motivated to evolve
and grow my business. And for that I am eternally grateful,
(41:50):
because for the first thirty five years of my life
that did not exist. This mindset is from that point forward,
and it is because cause of that that I have
become not just you know, a better artist, a better photographer,
a better business owner, but a better human being in general.
And and that's why they're all my babies, that's why
(42:12):
they're all my favorites.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, I love it beautiful answer and shout out to
to Mike. I just I didn't see your posts yet,
but I saw a post that he did about being
an interview that he had done recently, and he's he's
someone i've I've I've called out recently in reason I
think in the last year an a post to of
just someone who has grown and evolved and been really
(42:35):
successful of all being truly himself, I think since since
originally met I'm quite a few years ago, so excited
for all that has continued to come into his world.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
We're working with him on his photos and his storytelling
has been a real joy the past, you know, four
plus years.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So yeah, yeah, we might have we might have known
each other through secondary things that we didn't even know about.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
John, Who do?
Speaker 4 (43:01):
Who do?
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
This world is way smaller than we all ever realize.
So with that, we're coming up on our time together
today and I just want to share a couple of
places where everyone can learn more. So of course, John
has a great website Johndmatto dot com, and if you're
interested in learning more, he's got a great newsletter you
can sign up for as well through the site. Anywhere
(43:24):
else that people should find you LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I think I heard there.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Too, Absolutely yeah. And on on the.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
Website you'll be able to sign up or connect with
me on the socials.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Perfect, perfect, John.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I thought we could talk forever in a day about
all of this exciting work that you do, and I
look forward to again sharing your name with with many
many more individuals that we work with, as well as
coming together to celebrate and tell the story of the
Publicity Too Overtime.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
So with that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Thank you so much again for joining us for this
great conversation today. Uh and thank you everyone for listening
in the latest episode of the All Things Book Marketing podcast.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Smith
Publicity All Things Book Marketing Podcast. To reach us and
learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity dot com
or send us an email to info at Smith Publicity
dot com.
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hi, and welcome to the latest episode of the All
Things Book Marketing podcast from Smith Felicity.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm your host today. It was changed up a little
little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm your host today Marissa Eigenbrud, President and partner of
Smith Publicity, and I'm so excited to have John Demato
here to join us. Thanks so much for joining us. Well,
this is really exciting and chilly October day.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
John, Thank you for the invitation, Marisa, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So I'm going to give a little bit of a
bio on John first, and then we're going to dive
into some awesome questions. I'll tell you all about how
we met John too. So John is a visual storytelling
strategists and photographer who helps the faces of their businesses
open doors to more clients, higher fees, and bigger opportunities
before they even say a word.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love that. I love that. The summary of it all.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Over eight years, he's collaborated with professional speakers, authors, coaches, founders,
and consultants across more than a dozen industries. After a
decade producing for NBC, Universal and Yahoo, John's delivered a
quarter million photos.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
That's a lot of pictures, through two.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Hundred and twenty plus branding sessions, three hundred and fifty
plus live events, and countless moments of transformation. John teaches
that photos aren't nice to have their visual evidence. Working
around the clock creating instant credibility and genuine uniqueness, He's
obsessed with helping clients transform from blending into the crowd
(01:44):
to becoming an unmistakable market of one. John, that is
a very impactful bio you have there.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm exhausted just listening to it because I've lived it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You've lived it, and you know, with one thing, when
we're in our work and publicity, you know we're going
to say, oh, all these media placements and stuff, we
did that from from our desk most of the time
from a computer and we're just hammered away at the keyboard.
But you know, as a photographer, this is a physical,
you know job that you have. Of course the editing
and stuff, and you come back to it, but I
love that you know, so much of this is a
(02:19):
being with someone and you know, how are your knees
from like getting all those like low great angles sometimes too.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
It's it's funny you bring that up, because I was
just about to mention the fact that the most important
piece of equipment that I bring with me wherever I go,
whether it's on a plane to a gig or a
local gig, is a knee pad.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah. Oh, I'm sure after that many sessions, that many photos,
you got to take care of the old knees.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And as we age too, they always seem to go.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
First, right, especially mine.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
The oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Oh well again, thank you so much for joining us, John,
and uh, just as I said before, I wanted to
share a little backstory of how we connected, which is
actually a bit multi layered. It was you and I
connected over over LinkedIn. Initially I saw a post where
you were. You were I think, tagged and sharing images
from I believe it was was it Impact eleven event
(03:22):
or was an NSA as? Yeah, So I saw that
I reached out to you on LinkedIn. I was like,
I got to know this guy. We've got to connect.
This could be a great resource for so many of
our author speakers, you know, the slashies that we work with.
And then I come back and I we schedule a
call together, and my colleague looks at the calendar, my
(03:42):
calendar and says, wait.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
A second, I just met John Tomato.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
When we were at NSA because we had Careen and
Janet from our team uh there this year and so
and you had a chance to meet with them and talk.
And Karen was like, yeah, see somebody that we have
to know, we have to talk to more.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So here we are.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The universe was just sending us all these messages that
we had to come together.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Here we are.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Indeed, yeah, it's it's funny that I didn't put that
together and then and then oh yeah, well you know
what it was meant it was meant to be in here.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It was here we are. Here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So, you know, we've talked to individuals on this podcast
from so many different you know, kind of facets of
the publishing world, of the speaking world, and we have
not had someone who has joined us who's a photographer
and who really is a visual storyteller as you are.
And so I'd love us start up and just tell us,
give us the cliffs notes a couple of minutes on
(04:39):
how you got here with this line of work.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Well, once upon a time.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I took a class in graduate school when I was
getting my MFA and television production and my last semester,
I needed an elective and I looked at the list
and I saw thirty five millimeters black and white photography,
and I thought to myself, I don't need to shoot
sound and I only have to shoot one frame at
(05:08):
a time. This sounds like a layup. I'm gonna take it.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah, right, And that was a good elective.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
The thing about it is, while it was an elective
and it was the last semester of me ever being
in school, it was the best class I ever took.
It was one of the most amazing experiences being in
the dark room and developing and working with the chemicals.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
And all that stuff. Yeah, Ultimately.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
I put that on the back burner because then I
started my career as a film producer with Maury and
I worked there for nine years and then did the
freelance stuff with Yahoo and some other independent clients. But
ultimately grew a bit resentful of video production and I
kind of harkened back to photography. Was a headshot photographer
(06:00):
on the side while working in TV, and then ultimately
I had my come to Jesus my mom, and my
mom passed away, and I realized that if I were
in her position right now, I'd feel pretty resentful of
how I lived my life and what I did. So
I just jumped out the window quit decided to go
(06:20):
full time as a photographer, and spent about three years
during what I categorized as my creative crisis, by shut
everything under the sun, being a jack of all trades,
just trying to make a check. But what ended up
ultimately happening is I realized I need to learn how
(06:43):
to run a business, how to market myself. I didn't
know what the hell I was doing, so I would
go to these networking events and barter and get exposure,
but really was being introduced to the world of business
owners and how they do things and one online and
then discovered this world of keynote speaking, where people actually
(07:06):
make a living on stage talking. I had no idea
that that existed. Yeah, but what I realized is I
could kill two birds with one stone, because I could
learn from them and at the same time make a living,
and this time working in a place where it feels
really fulfilling because these people help others and one of
(07:29):
my objectives in life is to help those who help others,
and the way that I do that is with my
camera and with my brain strategizing with them on how
to not just capture these photos but actually what to
do with them. Yeah, and over the course of the
past eight years, I've iterated and developed and added certain
(07:54):
things and different products and services based on the people
that I work with with and what they have told
me that they needed. So what once started basically is
a branding photography business is now a full scope of
branding and events and books, virtual and you know, other
(08:18):
types of imagery as well as the strategy implementation and
in some cases for my client's content creation. So it's yeh,
been quite a it's quite a journey, quite.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A journey, but it sounds like you're you're You're where
you're meant to be in the end. And uh and
with again so much enjoyment and passion and purpose and
what you're doing now too, and like you said, being
able to represent the work that is impactful that others
are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think we share that very much.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We are the behind the scenes people all here, you know,
and and the work that we do as well, we're
the behind the scenes cheerleaders and amplifying you know, those
those important voices, those ideas, those stories that might come
through a book through our work. But as you know,
and again because we met at NSA with our our connections,
there so many of those that we work with, our
(09:13):
speakers or our hopeful speakers, or our consultants and coaches
or executives and such too, and so you know it
is it's really fulfilling, and it sounds like it is
very much for you too in that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah, I mean, the word obsession is in my bio,
not because I thought it was cool, but it's true. Yeah,
the unquenchable thirst to get better and to iterate and
to be more valuable and to refine and and to
really zone in on what these folks need is is
(09:49):
my purpose. And it's a really magical intersection of my
art and monetizing it in a way that creates massive
value people for people.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Who is a wonderful place to be.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Oh, that's that's beautiful job.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I want to dive into some of these kind of
like nitty gritty details of things and that guys, as
we've discussed, so many of those that we work with
are usually preparing for a book launch or they've just
launched a book. So a book is somewhere in the
brand ecosystem of it all. But rarely, you know, are
we working with someone where they only need one picture
(10:26):
of their book and one headshot. You know, they are
their build, they have a website, they have social presence,
they have other marketing channels through which they need regular
visual content to be able to share. So when you're
working with someone, I would love to kind of hear
both sides of it. You're working with someone who is,
you know, either kind of wanting to grow as a
speaker or is establishing wanting to level up as a speaker,
(10:49):
and they say, okay, I want to bring down.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I need to refresh everything here.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What are like the you know, the four or five
or whatever number you feel is appropriate. They're like key shots,
key elements, key like stories that you think are important
to tell through those photos.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And then i'd love to have.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Like the one a of it is the book, so
let's add in the book. And I love you use
the word book boudoir when we were talking, like like,
I'd love to hear those key shots that you think
are so important to have and the stories to tell
about the book too.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
So before we dive into the nitty gritty, what's actually
most important is to create the overall context of what
an expert needs. Because if you don't have a strategy
and are non intentional about executing on that strategy as
a wholesale ecosystem, you're creating massive gaps. And what I
(11:45):
mean by that is no one photo of the book
and what photo of you is not going to work.
In this day and age, we live in an intention
economy and we have ai slop left and right, and
there's nine thousand other people that talk about what you
talk about. Therefore, the opportunity to become invisible, the opportunity
(12:08):
to blend in like wallpaper and not be seen by
those that can really benefit from your particular flavor of.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Expertise is very high.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
As a result, this ecosystem I'm referring to is what
I call a visual storytelling library, and it has three components.
The first one is the core assets. Now you mentioned
the headshot that is part of the core assets. But
what also is important is to have a breath of
(12:41):
wider portraits, ones where you're displaying more of your body
as opposed to the tightly cropped headshot where you're making
direct eye contact. Your core assets all make direct eye contact.
That's what goes in your press kit, that's what goes
on your one sheets, that's what's on your website, your
social profiles. Fill in the blank where you need to
(13:01):
make eye contact digitally with your audience to that initial connection.
That's the first piece. Second piece is visual evidence.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
The is it the.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Photos that capture you in the act of doing the
thing you do for your people, and it shows that
you've done it before, you've done it recently and for
people just like them.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Now.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
That includes images of you work in solo, your process,
How is the sausage made behind the scenes, What does
your research look like, your brainstorming, the work before the work.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
We need to see that.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
And then we also need to see what it looks
like when you're in front of people who pay you money.
Whether it's on a stage, on a screen, whether it's
on your phone, whether it's in a boardroom you're using
a whiteboard, flip charts, slides, handouts, online course.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We need to see the visual evidence of that in
professional photos. And then we have the missing details. That
is where your book comes into play. That's the war
stuff that we do because while a digital cover, you know,
it checks a box, it doesn't exactly, you know, excite
(14:23):
anybody's attention because of the fact that it's a two
dimensional piece. What you're trying to do is really drum
up some interest by actually showcasing what is actually inside
the book so they can preview the book in their
hands through their eyes right now. In addition to the
book other ip that you have, what are like the
(14:48):
other missing details, the professional markers of achievement or other
pieces that showcase your expertise. Those details need to be
seen and shared as well as the personal pieces, the
stuff outside of the work. And the reason why we
(15:11):
want to share some of those missing details is because
at the end of the day, people buy from people,
and we are in the business of building relationships. If
you are a service business owner, and as a result,
you have to connect with people beyond just the work.
You don't want to be the superhero, you know, on
(15:32):
the top.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Of the mountain all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
You have to showcase that you're relatable and relevant on
a human being level.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And that's why.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
It's important to showcase that uniqueness of your personality through
those pieces and along with all of those professional photos
for the visual evidence and for the missing details component.
It's not just professional photos because unless if you have
a pop barazzi following you around twenty four to seven,
(16:03):
which unless if you're Gary Vee or Tony Robbie right,
you don't. But moments that happen in your day, whether
it's behind the scenes of your laptop while you're working
on something, or you're with a client, or you're just
taking a walk down the street and something inspires you
and you want to share a story about it, or
(16:25):
you have a hobby or you do stuff with community
based activities that you're really passionate about. You take those
photos of those things and you share them so that
it fills in the gaps of the professional images, the
core assets, the visual evidence, the missing details with smartphone
(16:48):
photos of those things, and that really is what paints
the broader picture. It is what positions you apart from
everybody else, and the when you're showing yourself in action
and doing all of this stuff and posting consistently and
keeping your photos current and relevant, you look in demand,
(17:09):
You look premium, and you look like you're worth every
single penny you charge.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
M Oh my gosh, so many great points there, John,
and gosh, I haveing so excited that, you know, just
a little insider information that we've been talking about the
Smith Publicity website and redoing that, and excited about talking
to John about his support with with our brand as
well too, because there's so much storytelling that we can do,
and it just my mind goes in so many directions
(17:37):
for us and for those that we work with in
the incredible you know, the strategy that you bring to this,
it is you know, I first truly, it's so much
fun and you're I know, truly the first person I've
talked to photographers.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I've talked to others in the past.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And no one really speaks about the power of these
visual visual collateral the way that you do, and it's
so inspiring.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Here's the thing, Marissa, and this is not the fault
of any expert whatsoever, because you're busy being the person
you are in transforming the lives of those you serve,
and that's a lot of work. But the truth is
most experts, where they fail or where the big mistake
(18:25):
is is thinking that I just need a couple of
good shots. I'll update this every couple of years. It's
a nice to have.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I'll use stock.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Photos all over the website, or I'll invest in some
graphics and it'll look really cool and maybe I'll have
one photo. And the reality is that in this world
we live in today, that is not going to work
because people are starving to connect with other folks on
(19:01):
a real level, especially especially considering the fact that the
people that they're connecting with, the clients of the experts
have a problem that they need to solve, and you
want to know that they can trust this person, that
(19:22):
they have the track record to help them, and the
fact that they can stomach being with them in a
room or on a zoom for an extended period of time.
To be able to get the work done, there has
to be that rapport, and as a result, you have
to be able to get their attention to pattern, interrupt
(19:43):
them just long enough so that they actually read all
of the value that you can provide them that you're
displaying your expertise. Otherwise, if you're just posting, you know,
stock photos or things that are seventy five years old
and added data and it feels really stale, They're not
(20:04):
going to stop, They're going to keep rolling. Yeah, it's
on you to be able to put yourself in the
position to do the thing that you do best.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It is it is you mentioned in there that you
know you say someone says, oh, yeah, I just updated
every every couple of years. I'd love to hear because
working with you, working with you know, really building out
the strategy and working to get all these visual assets,
it is certainly going.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
To be an investment.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And when you know, so many the individuals are working with,
if they're coming in with their their book launch, they're
talking about okay, I'm and they have long term goals
for speaking and business opportunities and such too, because that's
something that we're always talking about.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's like we would I'd rather work.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
With someone who they see their book as a catalyst
for those other things than necessarily just solely focused on
how well the book does that launched, But a dual
combination or just the former of the two is preferred
and the way that we work, and so if they're
someone is looking at hey, I want to everything that
I'm investing in is not just for the book, of course,
but it is for the brand and the longer term,
(21:06):
and I'm kind of you know, diving into working with
a publicity agency. You might need a social media manager.
I need to build out, you know, or update a website,
and they want to bring on someone like yourself too.
How often do you feel it's important that they kind
of circle back to then working with you again?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Like how you know how you're like, oh, yeah, every
every month.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
They could work with it now, but like and realistically,
how because especially for speaker, something that I've heard before
is that you want to create a keynote that can
last for.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
At least two to three years.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You want and you might tweak it a little bit
here and there that could apply to an audience. Maybe
your example is just a little bit different or something,
But really, truly you want to have this referrable speech
as we hear from Michael Port from a Herold public
speaking all the time. You know, you want to have
that that speech that just keeps going for you because
you've worked so hard on it and so thinking about
(21:57):
all the strategy and the investment in the time is
going to go into these assets. How long do you
feel that it's appropriate that they that they last or
are there like little moments along the way where you say, oh, yeah,
I just you need a mini session if you will.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Well, so you know, we have three different components to
the library. But the high level piece to that is
the fact that it's ever evolving every single day. Not
necessarily the professional images, but the smartphone images are ongoing,
recurring over and over and over again. But if we
(22:33):
just talk about each of the categories of imagery, your
core assets, generally speaking, you'll get a year or so
out of it. It really depends upon the fact that
do you still look like the person that's in the photos?
Is it indicative of your brand still? And do you
(22:55):
recognize yourself and those images? Not physically, but you look
at those photos and you say to yourself, yeah, that
I'm like I have evolved as a business, as a
human being. You may look the same, but when you
look at them, they don't resonate in the same way
that it's time to get new stuff. That's for the
(23:16):
core assets, visual evidence, for the professional images. What are
the rooms that you're working in where what does your
solo work look like? Has that evolved? Have you changed
your process? Have you added stuff? Have you created new
services and products that have to be accounted for. Have
(23:36):
you graduated from you know, airwalled small room breakouts to
big keynote stages with imags and smoke machines and laser lights.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
You know, right, you have to.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
It's you know, one of the things that you always
have to keep in mind is if you want to
show people what it looks like when you're in the
room with them, you have to show them the rooms.
And by the way, one of the other things to
a little segue here, but related to visual evidence and
keynotes and events in general, it's not enough to simply
(24:16):
get the wide shot of the room, whether it's a
boardroom of twenty people, or you're doing a workshop with
one hundred people, or there's ten thousand people in the
audience and you're the tiny little peanut in the bottom
in the back of the screen. Yeah, those photos are
important for credibility, absolutely, But what also is important for
credibility is the stuff that happens before the event and
(24:39):
the stuff that happens after the event, meaning what does
the setup look like. You know, for example, for a keynote,
let's just take some very important visual assets to have
in order to connect more with the event producers and
other decision makers that potentially hire you. Is to show
(25:02):
that you care enough, that you're passionate about what you do,
and that you're a team player. So that means showcase
you working with the av team, going over your slides,
going through tech check, rehearsing, backstage time.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, all of.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
The people that are connected to that event that you know,
we see that you are engaging. You're not just sitting
in the corner and doing nothing right. You're actually you're
You're a living, breathing part of this whole process, and
you're someone that's easy to work with. We need to
see those images, and the rehearsing stuff shows that you care,
(25:38):
so we want to see that. Then we get the
stuff during the event. Yes, the white shots are important,
but what you also want is a breadth of images
from all vantage points, showcasing close ups of you passionately
delivering your message. We want to see audience participation. We
(25:59):
want to see them taking notes, asking questions. We want
to see whatever your act outs are, all of the
different pieces that are involved during You need all of
that too. And then afterwards, if there's a book signing,
which many of your listeners will inevitably do have done
is photograph that entire exchange and not just you close
(26:24):
up signing or you handing a book. It's the whole experience,
with the selfies, the hugs, the conversations, the smiles, the tears.
I was I was shooting an event in Atlanta not
too long ago, and the amount of tears after that
that speech was incredible and I'm just like wow, just shooting.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All yeah, oh my god. So the impact.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Exactly, exactly exactly, and it's it. And what that does
is again, it paints the broader picture for your own
audience of decision makers that are determining whether you or
someone else is the right fit. So in fifty to
fifty calls, when you're painting that type of story and
(27:11):
you're imparting all of these words and really meaningful captions
that you're putting, oh that's either copy on your website
or in a newsletter or on social those photos are
going to visually punctuate the sentiment of those stories in
a way that helps you stand out in the same
(27:31):
way with the missing details. You know, you're getting awards
or you're getting some type of recognition or anything. You're
bringing in new people on your team, show all of
that stuff show the fact that you're evolving and growing
because it keeps you relevant, it keeps you on people's radars.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It makes an invested.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
All of this together, you know, ever evolving library of
images is really the secret sauce to be able to
give you that business infrastructure that works twenty four to seven.
When you're sleep and a decision maker is up at
three o'clock in the morning looking at LinkedIn pages and
(28:17):
one sheets and all this stuff you do not have
a say and who gets to be talked about in
the meeting the next morning.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
You need that. You need that.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Opportunity to be able to pitch without opening your mouth.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And this is how you do it.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
That's so cool. Yeah, I I.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Gosh, I mean so many great points are done and
I I really you know, I think that that when oh,
when speakers are you know, they're when they'regain, when they're
they're kind of that that stage of I've been doing
it for a bit. A lot of times we look
(29:01):
at price ranges and stuff of the kind of where
they are. So when someone's been doing it for a bit,
maybe they're in that five to ten to fifteen range
or so, and you know, they're like, I, you know,
there's like I don't, I don't need these kind of
things yet.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I don't. I don't need to.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I'm still building, I'm still working my way up and
all of that. But I think that no matter what
stage someone is at the way you're describing it, like
everyone either you need it from day one that you
want to be a speaker. And that is exactly why
you need to keep it updated over time too, is
because it's delivering the impact, the value, the types of
rooms that you're in. And so if you are that
(29:37):
zero to five thousand, you know dollar speaker to start,
you still need it because you just need visual assets
to start off point because you probably don't have any yet.
Let's deliver where we are now. And if that means
that you're speaking the chambers of commerce in your town,
or that you're speaking to you know, really niche industry
events to get started with, or you're going to universities
to speak whatever it looks like like, you still to
(30:00):
show what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And then when you start.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
To open that door open, so those first bigger stages
and we want to create from the five to the
ten to the fifteen, like you said, I love that
we were Like, the last thing you want is for
someone to go to the social the website, all of
that and see that you're only speaking the chambers of
commerce and you know, and small business associations and universities,
because that's not the stages that you want to be
(30:24):
on moving forward and you want.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
To keep moving toward. Here's the thing, let me it
just keeps going up from there.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Yeah, and you don't want to delete any of the
journey you want yes to say, because if there's one
thing that that creates is added credibility because of the
fact that it shows that you've been putting in the
work and it shows that you care. And while you
know it wouldn't be relevant for a three day conference
(30:53):
to hire or not relevant, but you know they're looking
for more seasoned speakers and they don't want to see
someone that just does Knights of Columbus. But what they
do on is the fact that you have put in
the work to be able to hone your skills to
get to a level where you are on those stages
and you are ready and you can be trusted with
(31:13):
our audience.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it's important to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
And you know you brought up a point with with
price points and you know the zero to five K
or five to fifteen K. Here's the thing, the architecture
of the visual storytelling library is create is structured in
a way that if you can only afford certain types
of investments, there are priorities that need to be made
(31:41):
and you know, your core assets are an absolute must.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And if you were to have.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
To spend you know, some money, first it would be
on that. That is your foundation. It begins and ends there.
The next piece is getting into that first two or
three rooms of what it looks like whether you're coaching
someone you know, group coaching or workshops or whatever that is.
(32:08):
You just get that one gig for each of the
different types of rooms you're in and get the variety.
And yes, you don't want to share the same event
the same shots fifty thousand times over because.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You're in one room you don't look busy. But here's
the thing.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
You have to start somewhere, and your website needs to
reflect what it looks like in the room. And really
the thing about that also is you know you can't
sleep on the phone shots. The phone shots fill it in,
especially when the phone photos come from the people that
(32:50):
are in the rooms that you're in, because that, oh yeah,
that adds a lot of credibility. And when you're in
a place where you can't afford to spend and you know,
over the course of the year, you know, ten fifteen,
twenty grand on a bunch of professional images branding your
event stuff, that stuff really is invaluable because it keeps
(33:12):
you on people's radars. You're getting the words from the
horse's mouth of all that you're serving, and you're still
sprinkling in the professional stuff that's very genuine and it
positions you as an expert. So you have to start somewhere.
You have to be intentional and strategic about it. And
(33:35):
over time, that's when you start investing more in your
visual storytelling and really pumping it out there in a
way that's going to start getting you from fifteen to
twenty to twenty five to doing five to six figure
contracts for your coaching or consulting. But you got to
start somewhere, and you have to be intentional about it
(33:57):
from jump.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So if we're talking about starting from somewhere and someone's
looking for the right photographer to work with and they
are you know, again no matter what stage they are,
but wherever they're at, they're like, yeah, I need to
bring someone in. What are your tips for outside of
like everybody should go to be working with John? What
are your tips for hiring the right photographer?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
The first piece is do not hire a photographer simply
through a referral and emailing back and forth. That is
a recipe for disaster. Why because you do not know
if you are going to get along with this person.
And the secret sauce to any shoot, whether it's a
(34:41):
fully controlled branding session or whether it's an event session,
you need to know that there's a rapport between you twoe.
Otherwise you are not going to be comfortable in front
of the camera.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
And guess what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Those photos are going to get deleted because it's going
to be written all over your face.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
You're going to hate all of them and you're never
going to use them.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Therefore, have a rapport with your photographer. The next thing is,
while figuring out and qualifying them on a discovery call,
identify whether or not this person has worked with people
like you in the past. In the same way that
experts need to convey that they've done the work recently. Yeah,
(35:25):
I've done it well and done it for people just
like them. You need to know if they have their
strategy had on and they understand not just getting pretty
photos but getting strategic photos that have very very specific
marketing purposes, meaning they get enough a variety of all
(35:46):
of the different types of imagery that can be used
so that you're not using the same three to five
photos over and over again, and that they are open
to whether or not the expert is well versed in
you know, visual storytelling to get some guidance in terms
(36:10):
of the types of images that they do need. And
another key piece with the photographer to work with is
the delivery time and the amount of deliverables that they get.
You don't want to work with a photographer that is
going to only offer ten, fifteen, twenty photos. That is
(36:33):
a headshot photographer that is not a photographer for experts.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
It's two things.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Unless you just literally need a headshot for something when
you're doing a branding session, to get those core assets,
the visual evidence and those missing details, you need as
many images as you can possibly get and do not
retouch them. You don't want a photographer that's going to
retouch them because you have to look like the person
you are in your photos you are in really, because
(37:01):
if you don't, you are going to break the trust
between you and the people that you serve because they
don't know who the hell you are in those photos
based on you walking in the room.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
So, yeah, these are things.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The last point is so important there, John, because like,
so what I would take and not being an expert
in cameras or photography all on it, but like that
would mean that you really need to make sure that
there's so much retouching that's done today and there's so
much reliance on that as a crutch a bit I
feel sometimes too in it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
So you're really I think.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I mean not to say that someone who's asked, like
what cameras do you use or such would know the
right thing, but like I think that's what it would
be is you need to have not only someone who
has the right equipment, but also has the like you
want someone who has the right eye for being able
to capture those images and a skill to capture those
images so that they don't need retouching too, right.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I mean, at the end of the day, you need
a photographer that has the right mindset that understands what
the goals of this session is. It's not I want
to pad my portfolio and shoot amazing photos and just
you know, have like this really bright and like you know,
contrived scenarios where people are like want and confetti in
(38:20):
the air, and like you want they want. You need
images that are genuine to how you are received by
your audience, and you want to convey your personality and
show them exactly in a fly on the wall experience
what your world looks like and what they would experience
if they were in that world period. There is no show,
(38:44):
there's no nothing else.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It is that.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
And in terms of retouching or optimizing the images, yeah,
you want flattering photos. You don't want like, you know,
a coffee stain on a shirt. You don't want to
like intention and only like have your eyes closed or
anything like that. But in terms of shaving twenty years
off of your face and thirty pounds off your body
(39:09):
is an absolute no no because because at the end
of the day, people are by default trying to say no, no, no,
I got a bad vibe. You want that pposit of
first impression. You want it to be genuine, you want
to create a pattern and interrupt in people's day in
(39:30):
the most authentic way possible, because that sets the table
for them to subconsciously treat you as someone that ultimately
they can connect with and trust enough to pay you
money to help solve their problem.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
So we're coming to the end here, John, I you know,
we're not a sposed to have favorite children at all,
you know, on our work, but we all do. I
would just love to hear, like, tell me a little
bit about some of your your name names if you want,
or just at least maybe give general information. I'd love
to hear about one of your favorite kind of individuals
that you've worked with, maybe over time or just like
(40:10):
one one time that you work with somebody.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I would love to hear about it.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Oh, man, there's too many. I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I'm gonna be upset when I'll tell.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
You his story.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
So last night I did a bookstore signing shoot with
one of my longtime clients. His name is Mike Goldman,
and we oldlin of ours too.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Mike is a friend. Well yeah, he's a great guy
and he.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Just put a book out and last night during his
uh in store, he skipped the Q and a and
what he did was talk about the people that have
mentored him, and for him, his two biggest mentors were
his wife and his son, and he gave this really
(41:05):
heartfelt story and then he invited about five of the
participants in the audience to share theirs and it was
a really touching moment, and I thought to myself, you know,
who are my mentors? So this morning I wrote a
post and shared a bunch of the photos, and you know,
(41:26):
my answer was him and all of the people that
I work with because of the fact that I have
this privilege and honor that I spoke about earlier in
this conversation about learning from folks and being inspired to
basically get off my ass and stay motivated to evolve
and grow my business. And for that I am eternally grateful,
(41:50):
because for the first thirty five years of my life
that did not exist. This mindset is from that point forward,
and it is because cause of that that I have
become not just you know, a better artist, a better photographer,
a better business owner, but a better human being in general.
And and that's why they're all my babies, that's why
(42:12):
they're all my favorites.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, I love it beautiful answer and shout out to
to Mike. I just I didn't see your posts yet,
but I saw a post that he did about being
an interview that he had done recently, and he's he's
someone i've I've I've called out recently in reason I
think in the last year an a post to of
just someone who has grown and evolved and been really
(42:35):
successful of all being truly himself, I think since since
originally met I'm quite a few years ago, so excited
for all that has continued to come into his world.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
We're working with him on his photos and his storytelling
has been a real joy the past, you know, four
plus years.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So yeah, yeah, we might have we might have known
each other through secondary things that we didn't even know about.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
John, Who do?
Speaker 4 (43:01):
Who do?
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
This world is way smaller than we all ever realize.
So with that, we're coming up on our time together
today and I just want to share a couple of
places where everyone can learn more. So of course, John
has a great website Johndmatto dot com, and if you're
interested in learning more, he's got a great newsletter you
can sign up for as well through the site. Anywhere
(43:24):
else that people should find you LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I think I heard there.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Too, Absolutely yeah. And on on the.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
Website you'll be able to sign up or connect with
me on the socials.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Perfect, perfect, John.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I thought we could talk forever in a day about
all of this exciting work that you do, and I
look forward to again sharing your name with with many
many more individuals that we work with, as well as
coming together to celebrate and tell the story of the
Publicity Too Overtime.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
So with that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Thank you so much again for joining us for this
great conversation today. Uh and thank you everyone for listening
in the latest episode of the All Things Book Marketing podcast.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Smith
Publicity All Things Book Marketing Podcast. To reach us and
learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity dot com
or send us an email to info at Smith Publicity
dot com.
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