October 24, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode of All Things Book Marketing, Marissa Eigenbrood, President of Smith Publicity, chats with ghostwriter and business strategist Emily Crookston about how to maximize a book’s impact as a powerful marketing tool.
Emily offers authors insightful strategies to seamlessly integrate their business goals into the book-writing process, starting well before the final manuscript is complete.
With her unique perspective, Emily emphasizes that a book isn’t just a standalone project—it’s a crucial element in building a brand, generating leads, and supporting overall business objectives.Listeners will gain valuable advice on the importance of marketing during the writing phase, not just after publication.
Emily explains how engaging potential readers early through tactics like LinkedIn polls for title feedback can build buzz and ensure that the book resonates with its target audience.
Marissa and Emily also discuss the importance of maintaining post-publication momentum, ensuring long-term return on investment (ROI) for authors who use their books to grow their business and gain credibility.
From overcoming mindset challenges like procrastination to choosing the right title, and the benefits of collaboration with ghostwriters or marketing professionals, this episode is packed with actionable tips for nonfiction authors and publishing professionals.
Whether you’re preparing to write a book or looking to amplify your book’s reach, this conversation provides essential takeaways to ensure your book works as a lasting asset for your business.
Emily offers authors insightful strategies to seamlessly integrate their business goals into the book-writing process, starting well before the final manuscript is complete.
With her unique perspective, Emily emphasizes that a book isn’t just a standalone project—it’s a crucial element in building a brand, generating leads, and supporting overall business objectives.Listeners will gain valuable advice on the importance of marketing during the writing phase, not just after publication.
Emily explains how engaging potential readers early through tactics like LinkedIn polls for title feedback can build buzz and ensure that the book resonates with its target audience.
Marissa and Emily also discuss the importance of maintaining post-publication momentum, ensuring long-term return on investment (ROI) for authors who use their books to grow their business and gain credibility.
From overcoming mindset challenges like procrastination to choosing the right title, and the benefits of collaboration with ghostwriters or marketing professionals, this episode is packed with actionable tips for nonfiction authors and publishing professionals.
Whether you’re preparing to write a book or looking to amplify your book’s reach, this conversation provides essential takeaways to ensure your book works as a lasting asset for your business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the All Things Book Marketing podcast.
For today's interview, I'll be your host Marissa Eigenbrewed, President
and partner here at Smith Publicity. I am so excited
as we continue with our Ghooley ghosting theme in the
month of October, to have Emily Crookston with us.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Emily, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like I should have worn a costume.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
If only we were that cool and thought about it.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So for everyone who doesn't know Emily who's ruining us today,
Emily is the owner of the Pocket PhD and is
about to add a really awesome additional crudential in the
mix there. Actually, the time I'm airing this, she will
officially have it in there, but we're just a couple
of days recording this ahead of the launch of her
(01:13):
very first book.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You're just her publicist dream and just you know, being
ready and holding it up right there.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So a little more background Emily. Emily is a best.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Selling business book ghost writer, author and developmental editor. She
specializes in helping founders, experts, and business owners write a
book that sells. As the owner of the Pocket PhD,
she creates and implements content strategies for self published business
book authors who are ready to find their best angle,
align their current their current content, and prime their audience
(01:54):
for the book. And her first book, as you all
just saw or are you just heard of? Talk about
if you're listening and only on the podcast, it's called Unwritten,
The Thought Leader's Guide to Not Overthinking Your Business book
and it launches October first of twenty twenty four. I
Think You published with Amplify too, which is a great,
great friend of ours. Emily is also a former philosophy professor.
(02:17):
I always love people's background, but everybody has such a
random background that kind of gets you into the world publishing.
The speaker and podcast guest, and when she's not writing intensely,
she's most likely practicing yoga intensely or I love this
living for desserts talk with real whipped cream. I am
(02:38):
very much a strong person against cool whip.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I have to say, yeah, none of that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Get out of here with cool whip sorry for everyone. Yes,
please please. My lactose intolerance self is like, yeah, forget it.
Oh my gosh, such a amazing background. I love the
philosophy that you come in with. I think that deeper
thinking is probably, you know, such an important part of
(03:11):
your process as a groser. So we're talking about the
quote unquote paths. We're now talking about the future. So
tell us all about how you got into ghost writing.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I was a philosophy professor, and the world of academia,
for anybody who knows, is sometimes a toxic place, and
I've found it to be very toxic for myself. And
so I said, well, what do I want to do.
You know, I've never I haven't literally haven't thought of
a career path besides being a professor since I was
eighteen years old. But I thought, well, when I was thirteen,
(03:45):
I thought marketing was cool. And it turns out that
a friend of a friend was looking for marketing help
and really what she needed was someone to write blog
posts for her and her she has a web development
web website development and marketing. So I sort of found
myself in the world of ghost blogging. Someone called me
a ghostwriter at some point and I said, oh, that's
(04:08):
what I'm doing. And from there I said, well I
can write longer things. And so you know, I found
my way to my first book clients. I've evolved along
the way. I wrote a couple of memoirs. Memoirs aren't
my favorite thing to write. I love to read memoirs.
But I do really love writing thought leadership books. I
love writing. I call them business books, you know, books
(04:30):
that are designed to help you grow your business, help
you find more clients, help you get on the speaking stage,
and grow your reputation as a as a thought leader.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Those are the type of clients we love working with,
to work with all different individuals. But I was to
say a little extra sweet spot in my heart, as always,
those who are looking beyond just the pages of the
book of how is.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
A catalyst for other bigger things.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And you know, I think we all know that's where
the real ROI comes from, right for money back in
book sales, everyone, it's definitely going to be.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Through those other other opportunities.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And that's so much of what you get into in
your book and what we'll get into in the conversation today.
But you know, One of the things I'm so curious about,
Emily is I have said sometimes that you know, every
author that comes to us, I am just I'm truly
in awe. And it's might sound cheesy, but I am
in awe of the vulnerability and the commitment and the
(05:30):
passion that someone has and dedication truly to what they
want to share in a.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Book, and the.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Fact that they are willing to put themselves out there.
I don't I don't care if this is a new
model for selling better widgets or this is a memoir
about you know, a really personal experience wherever it fits
on that that frame, or a fiction project, but whatever
it is, I just find it so incredible of someone
(05:57):
who just says, you know what, I want to share
this the world in this way and so up until
you know a couple of days from now, both yourself
and and myself. And I don't know if I ever
have a book in me. I just don't know if
I can ever be that vulnerable. And so but you are.
You are being that vulnerable, and you're taking that risk,
and you're putting yourself out there in this beautiful way.
(06:20):
So tell me what kind of inspired you to take
the leap and write unwritten and put yourself out there
with this book.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I love this question. Yeah, And there is a
lot of vulnerability even if you are just kind of
thinking of it. And this is kind of how I
think of it. Well, I'm writing about my business. I'm
writing about what I do every day. I'm not sharing
my abuse story as a kid or you know whatever,
like nothing traumatic. Sure, really, but it still is a
really vulnerable process. You're absolutely right. You're still wondering is
(06:48):
anyone going to buy this book? Does anyone want to
read what I have to say about this topic? For
me personally, I started a couple other books before I
finished this one. So I have a couple books hanging
out around five percent finished, you know. And there are
so many books out there about how to write a book,
and so I just put that aside for so long.
(07:10):
I don't I don't want to write another book about
how to write books. But a friend of mine was like, look,
this is this is your business, this is what you do.
You have to write this, you know, and and so
I came around to the idea. But what it was
really interesting is it was it just felt I felt
like it fell out of my brain. It was this
was really easy. I wrote the draft in about two months,
(07:32):
and you know that whole process for me. And I
do write a lot about this in the book because
one of the big things I say to authors is
that the first step is getting your messy first draft done.
A business book does you no good hanging out on
your hard drive for five years, right, It's only valuable
to you when it's out in the world. So get
that messy draft done. And so I just I feel
(07:52):
like a lot of people overthink their books. They they
think they overthink the writing in particular, they forget about
the promoting and the publishing and marketing almost entirely. They
spend years slaving away over their books and then they're like, Okay,
they drop it on Amazon and no ad buys it,
and they'd say, well, all that work, you know. So
I want to help authors kind of avoid that trap
(08:14):
of overthinking and help them realize that a lot of
the thinking work needs to be done around the promoting
and the publishing and the marketing. In fact, you know,
much are more than the time you're really spending on
that messy first draft really needs to be Yeah, and
how does it connect to your business. I think that's
another big mistake business book authors make. They're like, I'm
(08:38):
running a book. This is a thing over here, and
I'm running my business. This is a thing over here.
And to get my book done, Oh my god, I'm
going to have to take a break from my business. WHOA,
the book is a marketing tool for your business. Don't
stop running your business to finish your book. Work on it,
get it done, and make sure that you are really
really clear about how that book can support your business.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, now that that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And it's such a great segue into how you start
the book, which is chapter one says what is the
business case for your book? And I really love you
and I you know, connected, uh just a couple of
weeks back and had this similar conversation, and I love
hearing about your process and understanding these you know, these
(09:21):
questions that you're asking in the very beginning because selfishly,
it's supporting us at the very end. I'm talking about it.
We're the last sabang at the end here with the
marketing and publicity. But you should be thinking about it
from the beginning and how all of this is connected
within your your brand and this kind of ecosism that.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
You're building with the book being a part of that.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think there is such a mentality around I have
this book, and I'm going to build everything around the book,
you know, kind of in just like thinking very tactically.
Like someone will build a new website and they'll say
it's your book title as the website.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I said, no, no, no, don't do that. It's you.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's your your brand, your name, whatever your company name like,
and the book gets added into that. So, yeah, tell
us a little bit about the process when you're working
with someone of these early conversations around what is the
business case for your book? What does that look like
when someone's working with you, and kind of how you
talk about in the book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, So part of making sure that the book is
really integrated into the running the businesses, we really have
to start with business strategy in fact. So yeah, that question,
what's the business case for your book? That's the first
question I ask almost all prospects when I get on
a sales call with them, because if it's not clear,
if you're thinking, well, I just want to leave a
legacy for my grandkids, that's great. You can write a
(10:40):
book like that if you want, But yeah, I know,
I do not recommend hiring a ghost writer, which is
not cheap and not a small investment. I don't recommend
spending a lot on publishing and marketing and publicity and
all of that for a book that is just a
legacy book, right, And so I really want them really
focused on and what's the ROI here? And so that
(11:02):
first question what's the business case for your book really
goes back to, Okay, what's your offer ecosystem? What does
your suite of offers look like? Are there new things
that you're trying to create? Is the book part of
the new things or is it part of what you
have going already? And is that where you want the
book to land? So it's really figuring out Okay, not
(11:22):
just oh I have an idea for a book, but
what's the angle? What's your unique point of view on
this topic that you can share. I almost like to think,
what's the one thing you want to be known for?
Because at least for the foreseeable five, ten, twenty years,
your book, that's what it is. It's the thing that
you're going to be known as. Right, You're the I'm
(11:43):
the ghostwriter girl, or you know whatever, it is like
you're trying. You want to be that thing, and so
we want to get all that content rowing in the
same direction. So the first thing I like to do
is spend two or three months really getting into your
business and figuring out what book, what idea, what positioning
is going to support the business and your goals around that,
(12:04):
and then we can start outlining the book on once
we know that, and once we see what you've already started.
That's the other thing that people often forget they created
all this content. Every business owner is creating content all
the time, and we have started writing your book, and
in some cases your book is written, it just needs
to be pieced together from ally p and so don't
(12:26):
forget about that. Mine your content.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
That's also part of the process.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And the presentations that you give the keynoteed. You know,
all of that stuff could feed into the book, or
at least should somehow tie into it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Makes sense, absolutely, absolutely, you know, I'm kind of curious
to see as this process evolves. And you mentioned earlier
about how you know, so often someone has that idea
and then it sits on their hard drive for all
those years and such, and that comes with as you
as you talk about in the book these different kind
(12:59):
of mindset challenge is that someone is facing in the
writing process. But even working with a ghost or if
you have someone who's doing most of their writing, there's
still these you know, elements that are holding them back
from sharing certain information or opening up about something or
really being able to you know, because a big part
of a ghostwriter is pulling pulling things out of the
(13:21):
person that you're working with. And if these mindset challenges
are in the way, that's definitely going to hold back
some of those things that you want to be pulling
up and make the best book possible. So can you
talk a little bit more about those mindset challenges you
see most often with those that you work with with
other authors and you know cred of how you help
(13:42):
coach someone through you know, moving past them.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the things
I talked about in the book, I actually offer pre
reading prewriting exercises, so you know, go through this list
of you know, checklists and things to decide if it's
really the right time, if this is really if you
really shouldn't even be writing a book. But one of
those is anticipating the challenges and obstacles that might come up.
So procrastination is an obvious one. Writing time, it's hard.
(14:11):
You know, you can schedule writing blocks for yourself and
then oh, this client thing is we're on fire because
of this. I can't I don't have the time to
do the writing, and you know, I you know, people
will tell you productivity, people will tell you keep those
appointments as if it's client a client meeting, you know,
But in reality, for a business owner, that's just it's
(14:31):
not gonna happen. You say, oh, I'll do it on
the weekend or you know whatever. But there's procrastination, so
it's easy to kick that can down the road and
forget about it. So one of the things I say is,
before you get to that point, before you get to
the moment where you're like, I'm going to skip my
writing session, what if you had a strategy, what if
you've written out for yourself what you're going to do
(14:51):
in these moments. Maybe you're going to call an accountability
partner and say I really don't feel like I can
write today, you know, and they're going to talk you
through it, and they're gonna say, well, what if you
spend ten minutes. You don't need to spend the full
two hours, but maybe you could spend ten or twenty minutes, right.
So having those strategies in mind before you get stuck
in that moment, I think can be really helpful with
(15:13):
my clients with ghost writing. One of the biggest barriers
I think is giving feedback. A lot of my clients
just aren't experienced at giving feedback on writing. And this
happens to me too. If I ever have a piece
of writing that my senior writer wrote for a client
or something a blog post maybe, and I'm reading it, like,
I don't always ask the right questions to my brain
(15:35):
that I would ask when I was writing it for myself.
So there's some blind spots around editing that comes up.
And sometimes people are shy about giving feedback. They worry
about hurting someone's feelings, or they think, well, you're the expert,
maybe my opinion doesn't count as much as yours or
something like that, And I always say, look, I was
a philosophy professor. Philosophers have really thick skin because the
(15:57):
game is to come up with criticisms and poke holes
in people's arguments, like that's that's the whole point of
what we're doing sometimes, so you can't hurt my feelings.
And especially because I'm trying to capture your voice. If
there's something that I wrote and you say, I would
never say it that way, I need to know that
(16:17):
information that's important for me to hear. And it doesn't
hurt my feelings. It doesn't make me feel like I'm
the bad ghost writer. It just means I didn't get
the tone right there, and we can adjust it.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's the process.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, And that's really important because I want my clients
to own that book. And you can't be interviewed like
this about a book that you didn't write and feel like, oh,
it's not mine. I don't know what's in there, Nightmare Stereo.
You need to know what's in your book. You need
to you know, it has to feel like yours.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That's that's very important.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
M hm. I love how you talk about, you know,
these skills and these blocks and such, but how we
we're talking about the book writing process, but it really
is valuable to the entire content creation process that follows
writing a book to and it's you know that is
content is king today and that is still something that
(17:13):
comes as surprise to a lot of authors is the
fact that I wrote the book you know, see in
my hands here, or you know, I'm done. I don't
have to write anything else. And especially for the types
of individuals that we're talking about here thought leaders. You know,
thought leaders don't live and die in a particular moment
in time, which is what your book is. In the end,
you are if you're a thought leader, you continue to
(17:34):
share your thoughts on the evolutions and changes and trends
and conversations that are in your space and your industry.
And so whether that looks like content through a newsletter
that you regularly share through that maybe shares blog posts,
or it's through LinkedIn content that you're posting on a
regular basis, or it's through a presentation that you're sharing,
(17:54):
or again when someone's working with us byline articles that
you're writing, or expert common terry for media. You know
that I love these things that you're recommending. Apply still
too to the entire content process along the way, but
in your work, and you continue to evolve into the
business book, playbook or so that kind of content strategy planning.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Along the way.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Again, mindset most important at the brand is like we're
going to do we're talking initial about a book here,
but we're.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Not going to be done after that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You're not going to be done when we but that
last stamp of approval on the book itself. So what
does overall content strategy look like in your mind when
you're thinking about the entire process here.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, this is such an important point because I think
we often think, Okay, the book is done, now it
is time for marketing. But you know, you point out,
we point out all the time that the marketing happens
while you're writing the book, and marketing should happen like
six months ideally around book launch day. You know, it's
it's it's a longer term process. And you're absolutely right,
(19:02):
you're not done talking about that book once the book
gets written. In fact, you're just starting to talk about it.
So that's another point when you're coming up with your angle.
Is it something you will be happy to talk about
for a long time? You know? Is it the new
thing of talking about it already while you're writing the book.
That's not a good sign. And talking about the book
is different from writing the book. That's that's another thing
(19:25):
you know, you have to kind of put yourself in
the shoes of your audience when you're creating this content.
So when it comes to having what types of content
to create, I recommend starting to test your book idea
as soon as you know what it is and you
can test. LinkedIn is a great place to test ideas.
In fact, that's exclusively the way I use it these days.
(19:47):
So if I have a new idea, I'm probably gonna
pump popp it on LinkedIn first, and then I'm going
to see how people react to it. If it's crickets, okay,
maybe I need to go back to the drawing board.
Maybe not being clear enough about what I mean. Maybe
it's not as interesting as I thought it was. Right,
But you can test that out and you'll get such
great feedback from people that you can use and you'll
often say, oh, that was a great question. I'll let
(20:09):
me turn that into another post, you know, so it
really feeds itself. But if you can sort of set
a goal of posting to LinkedIn two or three times
a week, that's a really good start. And regardless of
where you are in the book process, trying to keep
that consistent testing ideas from the book and the great
thing about writing a book, is you never have that
like what am I going to talk about today kind
of question? It is so much material to pull from.
(20:32):
A book is a content gold mine, you know, I
should be able to use my book to create content
for forever. And then industry articles like you mentioned, if
you work for or if you belong to an association
within your industry, that's a really good place to start
to try to get articles published, newsletters, guest blogging perhaps
(20:55):
obviously guesting on podcasts is a great idea. So once
you're working on a book, you kind of have a
ready made pitch for a lot of these things. And
then I like to do a regular blog. I know
that blogging is not as popular as it was when
I started my business, but a lot of people have
blogs going, so having some longer form pieces are also
(21:15):
is also a really good way to get the word
out about the book. And yeah, again, we want all
of this kind of pushing in the same direction and
thinking about, you know, the offers that you're making and
how these pieces of content can tie into all of
that and making it all really.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and even too, I think that there's
this is kind of getting into the last the last
part three of your book, which we get into the
promotion of it all and the book publishing promotion and everything.
But you know, we always love when someone's thinking about
there's a difference between I think book marketing so and
(21:52):
your book launch marketing and then your kind of expertise
your business, your brand marketing that you're doing too. Yes,
you know, I always said that the ladder of those
two should always begin yesterday. There's never a time where
you shouldn't be just sharing your thought leadership on LinkedIn
or starting to maybe get a newsletter up and running
(22:12):
or whatever that looks like what's right for you. You know,
you want to just build that natural organic audience over
time and show that you're not just also talking about
what's in the book too, but if you're building those
connections to other things as well in your space. But
I love that you differentiate that really in the book
of two totally different chapters that are we're talking about her.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you have the one chapter talks about your your.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Mv MP, your minimum viable marketing plan, as well as
another chapter love a good acronym just that it talks
about how to use your book to market your business. Again,
such alignment and how we work here at Smith too,
because we are even though we're a book publicity and
marketing agency, we love to look at that from the
(22:59):
holistic view of what do we want this book to
do otherwise?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So, yeah, tell me.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
A little bit more kind of in your mind and
the guidance you provide kind of the key differentiating factors
when you think about that, you know, viable minimum marketing
plan for your book and then how you use it
to market your business and why it's important that they're
kind of differentiated in the book.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great question. So I will
say that, yes, marketing your business is different from marketing
your book, but I will say that marketing your book
is all is also part of marketing your business.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So often what happens and you see this with any
offers that you make, right you say, Okay, I'm going
to launch a membership. So I'm going to launch some
kind of community for my people. So what do you
do to launch that? Well, you do a free workshop.
Maybe you offer a free workshop. You have to market
that free workshop, so that which is a marketing piece
(23:53):
for the membership. Right, So there's all all these layers
of marketing these different things, and so the book is
no different fits into that again offer ecosystem. You can
think of it as like you have your signature offer
and you have something like your gateway offer. A book
is kind of a gateway offer. It's a good way
to raise awareness within the marketing sphere. I think of
a book as being part of that awareness piece. There's
(24:15):
awareness engagement, and then there's promotion of your offers, right,
and so I see a book as helping bring new
people into your audience, and so you have to kind
of keep it in that you know, keep that keep
it in that box of marketing for your business. And
so you're thinking about, you know, here's how I'm going
to increase my audience size or increase the people within
(24:38):
my audience. Of course, there's also the audience for the
book that you need to be growing ahead of the
book coming out, right, So that ties more into the
marketing of the book itself. And you know, there's there's
bestseller campaigns on Amazon, there's all the things that they
do at Smith Publicity to help help market that book. Right.
So there's all these different, you know, moving pieces, but
(24:58):
it's absolutely true that the they're different things, right, And
you know, I like the idea of thinking of the
book as a piece of your business and offer within
your business. And it may be for a moment anyway,
you want to be treating it as the most important
the signature offer, right, the right attention that it needs.
(25:19):
But yeah, you know, it's like any other sort of
thing that you're launching within your business. However you think
about marketing that you want to think about your book
in that way. So that also means, and this is
an important point, you don't if you have another big
thing in your business that you're launching at the same
time as your book. That's that could be a problem, right,
because yeah, yeah, if you if you're doing a ted
(25:42):
X talk or you know, big signature talk, wait and
make them have the book come out the next quarter
or something, you know, something so that you can spread
things out a little bit. But yeah, it all goes
back to again, the strategy around all these things. How
does the book fit into that bigger ecosystem of your business.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now, you may bring up so many great and important
points there, and it is by having that that kind
of dual mentality around marketing, it helps to ensure you
have momentum well after publication day too. That this you know, again,
we're not just putting all of our eggs in this
one day basket for it to do everything we hope
it'll do, but that you really have a plan in
place that's going to keep celebrating your book and then
(26:22):
using it as a marketing tool and using it as
a tool to to you know, to market your business
for long after. And that's in our experience, you know,
whether someone's doing you know, publicity or other activities. In
addition to that, it's just when you are doing that
and really truly tapping into your networks and expanding those
(26:43):
worlds out through that more kind of marathon versus sprint mentality,
it's so much more fruitful in the end and in
just the impact the book gets to make and the
ultimate ROI that that we get to see on the
on the other side of it all.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You can get really creative with these things, you know,
like I'm thinking about next summer, even like I would
love to do like a book tour and go around
and see my friends and have them like gather people
and you could do a book club over this, you know,
over the summer. You could gather people virtually or in
person and talk about the book. You know, I mean
so thinking like long term for the next year after
(27:22):
book launch, Like where are the events that come into
Maybe there's a holiday your book ties into and you
want to be ready to you know, mother's days coming,
and here's you know, you can use it to kind
of boost book sales and things like that.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So yeah, yeah, oh, I love I love a good
good Reads giveaway later on, yes, six months to a year,
you know, post launch, audiobook release.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know, together's so many different things you.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can think about and keeping that book energy alive and
the relevancy kind of bringing it back up again, and
and and to those to your primarily working with us
if it's thought leader worths of its speakers. What in
the pages of your book is not limited to that
moment in time in terms of the content and what
you're sharing, And there's should always be an opportunity to
(28:11):
maybe take what you share in chapter three randomigible, to
pick that randomly, and it may say something specific to
twenty twenty four when you put your book out, but
in twenty twenty six, maybe there's a new story in
the news where that core theme really ties in and
you get to bring it back out and talk about
it around that timely news or those trending topics that
are going on, and so you know, always kind of
(28:33):
identifying those points at which those those key things that
you're saying have application to later moments just always kind
of brings it back up again.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
And that's what we often do again on the publicity.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Side of things, and keeping that the leadership relevant over time. Yeah. Yeah,
so that I want to circle back to something. I
think it's in part two of the book, but is
you know, we try to have the daunting process of
writing many, many tens of thousands of words that end
up in a book typically and the creation of content.
(29:08):
And we're talking about a lot of words here, but
there is a chapter in your book that's dedicated to
something that's usually best with as little words as possible,
and that's the title. And you went all in and
picked one word for your title. So tell us I
want to kind of take a duel approach here. One
(29:30):
is tell us how you got to unwritten? And two
and again I kind of my naturally segue there is
that's I feel like that has to be the hardest.
It's like naming your child. Yeah, I know, like it
was really I am nineteen months on the home and
it was we were like down to the wire and like,
what are we naming this child? And I wouldn't tell
(29:51):
anyone his name because I was afraid of that came out.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
If he didn't look like the Lucas.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Then we go back to the drawing board and actually
he looked look the air.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Coat of.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You're okay with that?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, but it is pressure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's just like signing off on that line to say, yeah,
this is the title of my book, and so tell
us a little bit more about unwritten.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Oh yeah, titles. Titles are the bane of my existence sometimes,
like yeah, because I think sometimes people talk to writers
and they're like, well, you'll know a snappy title right
as soon as I tell you about the hard about
a title. So I feel that pressure when I'm working
with editing clients too, like what's a good title. I'm
gonna think about it while I'm reading, and I'll let
you know what I come up with. So that's how
(30:36):
I I recommend doing it. Like sometimes the idea is
just comment whatever, Like you read a line, you're like, oh,
that's a really important line. Can we write a title
around that, you know that kind of thing. One of
my editing clients she has a ton of one liners
in her book. She's just really good at She used
to be a screenwriter, so she has like those kinds
of snacks screen Yeah, exactly, Like can you can I
(30:59):
employ you to work with my co No? So sometimes
it does. It just comes like that. It's just like
comes to you. I wanted a title that was a
little bit I really wanted a funny title. I don't
think I really managed to come up with something funny
or something that was a double entendre or something that
was a little bit quirky, like unwritten. I've gotten really
(31:20):
good responses, they're like, oh, the book is written, ha ha. Right,
And there's the Natasha Beddingfield song that I really love
and it's kind of an anthem. Yeah, it's such a
great song. And so that, you know, it just kind
of came to me as like, Oh, that that's what
it's going to be. That stuck. I was playing around
with other titles. I had like a list of twenty
(31:41):
at one point. You know, this is this is what
you do. You storm and then you move subtitles around
and you run them by your publisher, and the publisher
tweaks them too, you know, because mine's a little long.
The subtitle is a bit long. I always point to
there's a woman named Tasha Urik, and she has this
book with the story Oh my God, so she had
(32:02):
is titled that's like thirty words subtitled. It's like thirty
words long. And I always think that's hilarious. You know,
so break the rules if it's funny, if it works
for you, if it works for your brand, of course,
But yeah, I think in general, you kind of you
want something that hits your gut, and you want something
that that makes sense. And then if you have, if
you have thoughts, start googling them, because you know you can't.
(32:25):
You can't copyright a book title. Nobody owns the book title.
So technically you could call your book the Bible. But
would you want you is that a good idea?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah? You for for marketing again, marketing purposes, positioning. You
probably don't want the same book title as someone else
in your field, for sure, or you know, you do
want confusion around your book title. You want when people
google it, they can find your book, right, that's that's
really important. So that's that's where you start. You come
up with some ideas and then you google them and
(32:56):
you see what happens. I mean, it's the same thing
with naming my business. I kind of did it the
same way. I was like, oh, I want to I
want a title that you know, talks about my background
as a professor, but also this new adventure that I'm
going into. You know, you kind of play around with
different ideas and google around and see yeah, and then
(33:16):
you know, I always say, if you come up with
like three and you can't decide, put those out on
LinkedIn and see what feedback you get. I don't recommend
putting twenty titles out and getting feedback because it'll be
too messy. And also think about who's giving you the feedback.
If it's not someone who would buy your book or
be your client, you can discount their opinion. So be
(33:37):
mindful about whose opinions are taking. But and see what
you get. You know, you might be you might be
surprised and like oh this one, this is the one,
and then you might get used to it might be
like you're right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
If you if you narrow a town, you can use
the pole function on link limits how many like options
you can given.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
There is another good reason.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
To live at pulling through the comments to try to
figure out, okay, how many volks were for this one
and how many for that.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
One, so you know, narrow it down.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You come down at least three five, and then use
the pull function on LinkedIn to ask everybody for that feedback.
But I'm always curious of you know, twenty seven years ago,
the planning process that our founder Dan Smith went through
in creating Smith Publicity, I was.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Like, that was a tough one there. Yeah, it's stuck.
It's stuck. We haven't changed it. We're still not all
these years later, and it's probably not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
So yeah, And I mean, if you already have a
signature program that has a snappy title, there's nothing wrong
with titling your book the same thing or orna, even
the name of your business, you know, if if that
makes sense, Yeah, it's going to be. If you have
a lot of programs, it can be confusing to name
the book after one, but you know, you know, all
those considerations can come into play. It's it's really you
(34:58):
wanted to be more, you know, easy to search and
easy to find.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, you bring up such a great important point there
at the end of just you know, how much is
it connecting to what your brand looks like today?
Speaker 3 (35:10):
And I think it's like, yes, if you are.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
If your program the offer now, if your brand as
it is today is what you plan to kind of
ride out into the sunset for the foreseeable future, been
building that connection and such as is very much worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
But like think, oh, I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Might be changing X, Y or Z, I might want
to grow into this or that in the future. Then
you know, being a little more cautious with the direct
connection to what you're offering right now is such good
advice exactly. So gosh, well, Emily, this is such a
wonderful conversation. I have one more quick question for it
before we wrap up for today, and I would love
(35:46):
and as you reflect on your years of ghost writing
and editing and now as an author, what is one
piece of advice that you would give to someone embarking
on this exciting and daunte and over journey but also
just really great too that you have now as you.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Know, someone with this dual perspective.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, I would just say, you know, we think so
often of writing as this solitary thing that you go
in your office and you shut the door and you
do it by yourself until it's finished. And I just
think that's the wrong way to approach writing. It's so
much more fun when you have partners. When you have
you know, find our friend who's also writing a book
or wants to write a book, and say, okay, let's meet,
(36:30):
let's do some coworking, find a ghostwriter, collaborative writer to
work with you. Figure out who is going to be
your support system, who's going to be part of part
of your team, who's going to help you with the
marketing and the publicity right figure out who those partners
are so you can start talking to them, because it
just gives you so much more energy around the book.
If you think about having to go and work on
(36:51):
your book by yourself every day, it's just it can
steal so much more daunting. So you know, think of
it more in a collaborative space, and I think you'll
have more fun with it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
But it's a team approach and it's so great to
have those partners with you at all stages of the
of the process.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
So I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
With this question I get to ask you, not only
where can people learn more about you and where can
they find you, where they can they connect with you,
but also where can they buy Unwritten?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yes, you can buy Unwritten wherever you look for books.
So it's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble, it's
on bookshop dot org. Wherever you look for books, you
should be able to find it. And yes, you can
find me on my website, which is the Pocket PhD
dot com. You can also find me on LinkedIn at
Emily Crookston. And I'm happy to connect with anyone I
(37:42):
like to play on LinkedIn, So come and come and chat,
come and see me there.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, absolutely, I highly encourage you to follow along with
Emily on LinkedIn, has great content and has an amazing
free Unwritten Book summit that's available too, where some incredible experts.
I have to I don't know how you found these
amazing people, but I happen to be one person. Emily.
Thank you again for that amongst those amazing minds, and
(38:10):
so again, thank you so much for joining us. We
are so excited to celebrate this moment in your career
with you and to get a chance to work more
closely together for anyone who is joining in with USIA,
thank you so much for being here today. If you
want to learn more about Smith Publicity, please visit us
at Smith Publicity dot com, subscribe to the podcast and
(38:31):
tune into some of our other episodes as well. Have
a wonderful day everyone.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Thank you, thank you for listening to this episode of
the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast. To reach
us and learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity
dot com or send us an email to info at
Smith Publicity dot com.
Welcome to the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast,
offering tips, insights, and advice from the best in the
publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the All Things Book Marketing podcast.
For today's interview, I'll be your host Marissa Eigenbrewed, President
and partner here at Smith Publicity. I am so excited
as we continue with our Ghooley ghosting theme in the
month of October, to have Emily Crookston with us.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Emily, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like I should have worn a costume.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
If only we were that cool and thought about it.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So for everyone who doesn't know Emily who's ruining us today,
Emily is the owner of the Pocket PhD and is
about to add a really awesome additional crudential in the
mix there. Actually, the time I'm airing this, she will
officially have it in there, but we're just a couple
of days recording this ahead of the launch of her
(01:13):
very first book.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You're just her publicist dream and just you know, being
ready and holding it up right there.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So a little more background Emily. Emily is a best.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Selling business book ghost writer, author and developmental editor. She
specializes in helping founders, experts, and business owners write a
book that sells. As the owner of the Pocket PhD,
she creates and implements content strategies for self published business
book authors who are ready to find their best angle,
align their current their current content, and prime their audience
(01:54):
for the book. And her first book, as you all
just saw or are you just heard of? Talk about
if you're listening and only on the podcast, it's called Unwritten,
The Thought Leader's Guide to Not Overthinking Your Business book
and it launches October first of twenty twenty four. I
Think You published with Amplify too, which is a great,
great friend of ours. Emily is also a former philosophy professor.
(02:17):
I always love people's background, but everybody has such a
random background that kind of gets you into the world publishing.
The speaker and podcast guest, and when she's not writing intensely,
she's most likely practicing yoga intensely or I love this
living for desserts talk with real whipped cream. I am
(02:38):
very much a strong person against cool whip.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I have to say, yeah, none of that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Get out of here with cool whip sorry for everyone. Yes,
please please. My lactose intolerance self is like, yeah, forget it.
Oh my gosh, such a amazing background. I love the
philosophy that you come in with. I think that deeper
thinking is probably, you know, such an important part of
(03:11):
your process as a groser. So we're talking about the
quote unquote paths. We're now talking about the future. So
tell us all about how you got into ghost writing.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I was a philosophy professor, and the world of academia,
for anybody who knows, is sometimes a toxic place, and
I've found it to be very toxic for myself. And
so I said, well, what do I want to do.
You know, I've never I haven't literally haven't thought of
a career path besides being a professor since I was
eighteen years old. But I thought, well, when I was thirteen,
(03:45):
I thought marketing was cool. And it turns out that
a friend of a friend was looking for marketing help
and really what she needed was someone to write blog
posts for her and her she has a web development
web website development and marketing. So I sort of found
myself in the world of ghost blogging. Someone called me
a ghostwriter at some point and I said, oh, that's
(04:08):
what I'm doing. And from there I said, well I
can write longer things. And so you know, I found
my way to my first book clients. I've evolved along
the way. I wrote a couple of memoirs. Memoirs aren't
my favorite thing to write. I love to read memoirs.
But I do really love writing thought leadership books. I
love writing. I call them business books, you know, books
(04:30):
that are designed to help you grow your business, help
you find more clients, help you get on the speaking stage,
and grow your reputation as a as a thought leader.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Those are the type of clients we love working with,
to work with all different individuals. But I was to
say a little extra sweet spot in my heart, as always,
those who are looking beyond just the pages of the
book of how is.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
A catalyst for other bigger things.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And you know, I think we all know that's where
the real ROI comes from, right for money back in
book sales, everyone, it's definitely going to be.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Through those other other opportunities.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And that's so much of what you get into in
your book and what we'll get into in the conversation today.
But you know, One of the things I'm so curious about,
Emily is I have said sometimes that you know, every
author that comes to us, I am just I'm truly
in awe. And it's might sound cheesy, but I am
in awe of the vulnerability and the commitment and the
(05:30):
passion that someone has and dedication truly to what they
want to share in a.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Book, and the.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Fact that they are willing to put themselves out there.
I don't I don't care if this is a new
model for selling better widgets or this is a memoir
about you know, a really personal experience wherever it fits
on that that frame, or a fiction project, but whatever
it is, I just find it so incredible of someone
(05:57):
who just says, you know what, I want to share
this the world in this way and so up until
you know a couple of days from now, both yourself
and and myself. And I don't know if I ever
have a book in me. I just don't know if
I can ever be that vulnerable. And so but you are.
You are being that vulnerable, and you're taking that risk,
and you're putting yourself out there in this beautiful way.
(06:20):
So tell me what kind of inspired you to take
the leap and write unwritten and put yourself out there
with this book.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I love this question. Yeah, And there is a
lot of vulnerability even if you are just kind of
thinking of it. And this is kind of how I
think of it. Well, I'm writing about my business. I'm
writing about what I do every day. I'm not sharing
my abuse story as a kid or you know whatever,
like nothing traumatic. Sure, really, but it still is a
really vulnerable process. You're absolutely right. You're still wondering is
(06:48):
anyone going to buy this book? Does anyone want to
read what I have to say about this topic? For
me personally, I started a couple other books before I
finished this one. So I have a couple books hanging
out around five percent finished, you know. And there are
so many books out there about how to write a book,
and so I just put that aside for so long.
(07:10):
I don't I don't want to write another book about
how to write books. But a friend of mine was like, look,
this is this is your business, this is what you do.
You have to write this, you know, and and so
I came around to the idea. But what it was
really interesting is it was it just felt I felt
like it fell out of my brain. It was this
was really easy. I wrote the draft in about two months,
(07:32):
and you know that whole process for me. And I
do write a lot about this in the book because
one of the big things I say to authors is
that the first step is getting your messy first draft done.
A business book does you no good hanging out on
your hard drive for five years, right, It's only valuable
to you when it's out in the world. So get
that messy draft done. And so I just I feel
(07:52):
like a lot of people overthink their books. They they
think they overthink the writing in particular, they forget about
the promoting and the publishing and marketing almost entirely. They
spend years slaving away over their books and then they're like, Okay,
they drop it on Amazon and no ad buys it,
and they'd say, well, all that work, you know. So
I want to help authors kind of avoid that trap
(08:14):
of overthinking and help them realize that a lot of
the thinking work needs to be done around the promoting
and the publishing and the marketing. In fact, you know,
much are more than the time you're really spending on
that messy first draft really needs to be Yeah, and
how does it connect to your business. I think that's
another big mistake business book authors make. They're like, I'm
(08:38):
running a book. This is a thing over here, and
I'm running my business. This is a thing over here.
And to get my book done, Oh my god, I'm
going to have to take a break from my business. WHOA,
the book is a marketing tool for your business. Don't
stop running your business to finish your book. Work on it,
get it done, and make sure that you are really
really clear about how that book can support your business.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, now that that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And it's such a great segue into how you start
the book, which is chapter one says what is the
business case for your book? And I really love you
and I you know, connected, uh just a couple of
weeks back and had this similar conversation, and I love
hearing about your process and understanding these you know, these
(09:21):
questions that you're asking in the very beginning because selfishly,
it's supporting us at the very end. I'm talking about it.
We're the last sabang at the end here with the
marketing and publicity. But you should be thinking about it
from the beginning and how all of this is connected
within your your brand and this kind of ecosism that.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
You're building with the book being a part of that.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think there is such a mentality around I have
this book, and I'm going to build everything around the book,
you know, kind of in just like thinking very tactically.
Like someone will build a new website and they'll say
it's your book title as the website.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I said, no, no, no, don't do that. It's you.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's your your brand, your name, whatever your company name like,
and the book gets added into that. So, yeah, tell
us a little bit about the process when you're working
with someone of these early conversations around what is the
business case for your book? What does that look like
when someone's working with you, and kind of how you
talk about in the book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, So part of making sure that the book is
really integrated into the running the businesses, we really have
to start with business strategy in fact. So yeah, that question,
what's the business case for your book? That's the first
question I ask almost all prospects when I get on
a sales call with them, because if it's not clear,
if you're thinking, well, I just want to leave a
legacy for my grandkids, that's great. You can write a
(10:40):
book like that if you want, But yeah, I know,
I do not recommend hiring a ghost writer, which is
not cheap and not a small investment. I don't recommend
spending a lot on publishing and marketing and publicity and
all of that for a book that is just a
legacy book, right, And so I really want them really
focused on and what's the ROI here? And so that
(11:02):
first question what's the business case for your book really
goes back to, Okay, what's your offer ecosystem? What does
your suite of offers look like? Are there new things
that you're trying to create? Is the book part of
the new things or is it part of what you
have going already? And is that where you want the
book to land? So it's really figuring out Okay, not
(11:22):
just oh I have an idea for a book, but
what's the angle? What's your unique point of view on
this topic that you can share. I almost like to think,
what's the one thing you want to be known for?
Because at least for the foreseeable five, ten, twenty years,
your book, that's what it is. It's the thing that
you're going to be known as. Right, You're the I'm
(11:43):
the ghostwriter girl, or you know whatever, it is like
you're trying. You want to be that thing, and so
we want to get all that content rowing in the
same direction. So the first thing I like to do
is spend two or three months really getting into your
business and figuring out what book, what idea, what positioning
is going to support the business and your goals around that,
(12:04):
and then we can start outlining the book on once
we know that, and once we see what you've already started.
That's the other thing that people often forget they created
all this content. Every business owner is creating content all
the time, and we have started writing your book, and
in some cases your book is written, it just needs
to be pieced together from ally p and so don't
(12:26):
forget about that. Mine your content.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
That's also part of the process.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And the presentations that you give the keynoteed. You know,
all of that stuff could feed into the book, or
at least should somehow tie into it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Makes sense, absolutely, absolutely, you know, I'm kind of curious
to see as this process evolves. And you mentioned earlier
about how you know, so often someone has that idea
and then it sits on their hard drive for all
those years and such, and that comes with as you
as you talk about in the book these different kind
(12:59):
of mindset challenge is that someone is facing in the
writing process. But even working with a ghost or if
you have someone who's doing most of their writing, there's
still these you know, elements that are holding them back
from sharing certain information or opening up about something or
really being able to you know, because a big part
of a ghostwriter is pulling pulling things out of the
(13:21):
person that you're working with. And if these mindset challenges
are in the way, that's definitely going to hold back
some of those things that you want to be pulling
up and make the best book possible. So can you
talk a little bit more about those mindset challenges you
see most often with those that you work with with
other authors and you know cred of how you help
(13:42):
coach someone through you know, moving past them.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the things
I talked about in the book, I actually offer pre
reading prewriting exercises, so you know, go through this list
of you know, checklists and things to decide if it's
really the right time, if this is really if you
really shouldn't even be writing a book. But one of
those is anticipating the challenges and obstacles that might come up.
So procrastination is an obvious one. Writing time, it's hard.
(14:11):
You know, you can schedule writing blocks for yourself and
then oh, this client thing is we're on fire because
of this. I can't I don't have the time to
do the writing, and you know, I you know, people
will tell you productivity, people will tell you keep those
appointments as if it's client a client meeting, you know,
But in reality, for a business owner, that's just it's
(14:31):
not gonna happen. You say, oh, I'll do it on
the weekend or you know whatever. But there's procrastination, so
it's easy to kick that can down the road and
forget about it. So one of the things I say is,
before you get to that point, before you get to
the moment where you're like, I'm going to skip my
writing session, what if you had a strategy, what if
you've written out for yourself what you're going to do
(14:51):
in these moments. Maybe you're going to call an accountability
partner and say I really don't feel like I can
write today, you know, and they're going to talk you
through it, and they're gonna say, well, what if you
spend ten minutes. You don't need to spend the full
two hours, but maybe you could spend ten or twenty minutes, right.
So having those strategies in mind before you get stuck
in that moment, I think can be really helpful with
(15:13):
my clients with ghost writing. One of the biggest barriers
I think is giving feedback. A lot of my clients
just aren't experienced at giving feedback on writing. And this
happens to me too. If I ever have a piece
of writing that my senior writer wrote for a client
or something a blog post maybe, and I'm reading it, like,
I don't always ask the right questions to my brain
(15:35):
that I would ask when I was writing it for myself.
So there's some blind spots around editing that comes up.
And sometimes people are shy about giving feedback. They worry
about hurting someone's feelings, or they think, well, you're the expert,
maybe my opinion doesn't count as much as yours or
something like that, And I always say, look, I was
a philosophy professor. Philosophers have really thick skin because the
(15:57):
game is to come up with criticisms and poke holes
in people's arguments, like that's that's the whole point of
what we're doing sometimes, so you can't hurt my feelings.
And especially because I'm trying to capture your voice. If
there's something that I wrote and you say, I would
never say it that way, I need to know that
(16:17):
information that's important for me to hear. And it doesn't
hurt my feelings. It doesn't make me feel like I'm
the bad ghost writer. It just means I didn't get
the tone right there, and we can adjust it.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's the process.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, And that's really important because I want my clients
to own that book. And you can't be interviewed like
this about a book that you didn't write and feel like, oh,
it's not mine. I don't know what's in there, Nightmare Stereo.
You need to know what's in your book. You need
to you know, it has to feel like yours.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That's that's very important.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
M hm. I love how you talk about, you know,
these skills and these blocks and such, but how we
we're talking about the book writing process, but it really
is valuable to the entire content creation process that follows
writing a book to and it's you know that is
content is king today and that is still something that
(17:13):
comes as surprise to a lot of authors is the
fact that I wrote the book you know, see in
my hands here, or you know, I'm done. I don't
have to write anything else. And especially for the types
of individuals that we're talking about here thought leaders. You know,
thought leaders don't live and die in a particular moment
in time, which is what your book is. In the end,
you are if you're a thought leader, you continue to
(17:34):
share your thoughts on the evolutions and changes and trends
and conversations that are in your space and your industry.
And so whether that looks like content through a newsletter
that you regularly share through that maybe shares blog posts,
or it's through LinkedIn content that you're posting on a
regular basis, or it's through a presentation that you're sharing,
(17:54):
or again when someone's working with us byline articles that
you're writing, or expert common terry for media. You know
that I love these things that you're recommending. Apply still
too to the entire content process along the way, but
in your work, and you continue to evolve into the
business book, playbook or so that kind of content strategy planning.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Along the way.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Again, mindset most important at the brand is like we're
going to do we're talking initial about a book here,
but we're.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Not going to be done after that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You're not going to be done when we but that
last stamp of approval on the book itself. So what
does overall content strategy look like in your mind when
you're thinking about the entire process here.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, this is such an important point because I think
we often think, Okay, the book is done, now it
is time for marketing. But you know, you point out,
we point out all the time that the marketing happens
while you're writing the book, and marketing should happen like
six months ideally around book launch day. You know, it's
it's it's a longer term process. And you're absolutely right,
(19:02):
you're not done talking about that book once the book
gets written. In fact, you're just starting to talk about it.
So that's another point when you're coming up with your angle.
Is it something you will be happy to talk about
for a long time? You know? Is it the new
thing of talking about it already while you're writing the book.
That's not a good sign. And talking about the book
is different from writing the book. That's that's another thing
(19:25):
you know, you have to kind of put yourself in
the shoes of your audience when you're creating this content.
So when it comes to having what types of content
to create, I recommend starting to test your book idea
as soon as you know what it is and you
can test. LinkedIn is a great place to test ideas.
In fact, that's exclusively the way I use it these days.
(19:47):
So if I have a new idea, I'm probably gonna
pump popp it on LinkedIn first, and then I'm going
to see how people react to it. If it's crickets, okay,
maybe I need to go back to the drawing board.
Maybe not being clear enough about what I mean. Maybe
it's not as interesting as I thought it was. Right,
But you can test that out and you'll get such
great feedback from people that you can use and you'll
often say, oh, that was a great question. I'll let
(20:09):
me turn that into another post, you know, so it
really feeds itself. But if you can sort of set
a goal of posting to LinkedIn two or three times
a week, that's a really good start. And regardless of
where you are in the book process, trying to keep
that consistent testing ideas from the book and the great
thing about writing a book, is you never have that
like what am I going to talk about today kind
of question? It is so much material to pull from.
(20:32):
A book is a content gold mine, you know, I
should be able to use my book to create content
for forever. And then industry articles like you mentioned, if
you work for or if you belong to an association
within your industry, that's a really good place to start
to try to get articles published, newsletters, guest blogging perhaps
(20:55):
obviously guesting on podcasts is a great idea. So once
you're working on a book, you kind of have a
ready made pitch for a lot of these things. And
then I like to do a regular blog. I know
that blogging is not as popular as it was when
I started my business, but a lot of people have
blogs going, so having some longer form pieces are also
(21:15):
is also a really good way to get the word
out about the book. And yeah, again, we want all
of this kind of pushing in the same direction and
thinking about, you know, the offers that you're making and
how these pieces of content can tie into all of
that and making it all really.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and even too, I think that there's
this is kind of getting into the last the last
part three of your book, which we get into the
promotion of it all and the book publishing promotion and everything.
But you know, we always love when someone's thinking about
there's a difference between I think book marketing so and
(21:52):
your book launch marketing and then your kind of expertise
your business, your brand marketing that you're doing too. Yes,
you know, I always said that the ladder of those
two should always begin yesterday. There's never a time where
you shouldn't be just sharing your thought leadership on LinkedIn
or starting to maybe get a newsletter up and running
(22:12):
or whatever that looks like what's right for you. You know,
you want to just build that natural organic audience over
time and show that you're not just also talking about
what's in the book too, but if you're building those
connections to other things as well in your space. But
I love that you differentiate that really in the book
of two totally different chapters that are we're talking about her.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you have the one chapter talks about your your.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Mv MP, your minimum viable marketing plan, as well as
another chapter love a good acronym just that it talks
about how to use your book to market your business. Again,
such alignment and how we work here at Smith too,
because we are even though we're a book publicity and
marketing agency, we love to look at that from the
(22:59):
holistic view of what do we want this book to
do otherwise?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So, yeah, tell me.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
A little bit more kind of in your mind and
the guidance you provide kind of the key differentiating factors
when you think about that, you know, viable minimum marketing
plan for your book and then how you use it
to market your business and why it's important that they're
kind of differentiated in the book.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great question. So I will
say that, yes, marketing your business is different from marketing
your book, but I will say that marketing your book
is all is also part of marketing your business.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So often what happens and you see this with any
offers that you make, right you say, Okay, I'm going
to launch a membership. So I'm going to launch some
kind of community for my people. So what do you
do to launch that? Well, you do a free workshop.
Maybe you offer a free workshop. You have to market
that free workshop, so that which is a marketing piece
(23:53):
for the membership. Right, So there's all all these layers
of marketing these different things, and so the book is
no different fits into that again offer ecosystem. You can
think of it as like you have your signature offer
and you have something like your gateway offer. A book
is kind of a gateway offer. It's a good way
to raise awareness within the marketing sphere. I think of
a book as being part of that awareness piece. There's
(24:15):
awareness engagement, and then there's promotion of your offers, right,
and so I see a book as helping bring new
people into your audience, and so you have to kind
of keep it in that you know, keep that keep
it in that box of marketing for your business. And
so you're thinking about, you know, here's how I'm going
to increase my audience size or increase the people within
(24:38):
my audience. Of course, there's also the audience for the
book that you need to be growing ahead of the
book coming out, right, So that ties more into the
marketing of the book itself. And you know, there's there's
bestseller campaigns on Amazon, there's all the things that they
do at Smith Publicity to help help market that book. Right.
So there's all these different, you know, moving pieces, but
(24:58):
it's absolutely true that the they're different things, right, And
you know, I like the idea of thinking of the
book as a piece of your business and offer within
your business. And it may be for a moment anyway,
you want to be treating it as the most important
the signature offer, right, the right attention that it needs.
(25:19):
But yeah, you know, it's like any other sort of
thing that you're launching within your business. However you think
about marketing that you want to think about your book
in that way. So that also means, and this is
an important point, you don't if you have another big
thing in your business that you're launching at the same
time as your book. That's that could be a problem, right,
because yeah, yeah, if you if you're doing a ted
(25:42):
X talk or you know, big signature talk, wait and
make them have the book come out the next quarter
or something, you know, something so that you can spread
things out a little bit. But yeah, it all goes
back to again, the strategy around all these things. How
does the book fit into that bigger ecosystem of your business.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now, you may bring up so many great and important
points there, and it is by having that that kind
of dual mentality around marketing, it helps to ensure you
have momentum well after publication day too. That this you know, again,
we're not just putting all of our eggs in this
one day basket for it to do everything we hope
it'll do, but that you really have a plan in
place that's going to keep celebrating your book and then
(26:22):
using it as a marketing tool and using it as
a tool to to you know, to market your business
for long after. And that's in our experience, you know,
whether someone's doing you know, publicity or other activities. In
addition to that, it's just when you are doing that
and really truly tapping into your networks and expanding those
(26:43):
worlds out through that more kind of marathon versus sprint mentality,
it's so much more fruitful in the end and in
just the impact the book gets to make and the
ultimate ROI that that we get to see on the
on the other side of it all.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You can get really creative with these things, you know,
like I'm thinking about next summer, even like I would
love to do like a book tour and go around
and see my friends and have them like gather people
and you could do a book club over this, you know,
over the summer. You could gather people virtually or in
person and talk about the book. You know, I mean
so thinking like long term for the next year after
(27:22):
book launch, Like where are the events that come into
Maybe there's a holiday your book ties into and you
want to be ready to you know, mother's days coming,
and here's you know, you can use it to kind
of boost book sales and things like that.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So yeah, yeah, oh, I love I love a good
good Reads giveaway later on, yes, six months to a year,
you know, post launch, audiobook release.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know, together's so many different things you.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can think about and keeping that book energy alive and
the relevancy kind of bringing it back up again, and
and and to those to your primarily working with us
if it's thought leader worths of its speakers. What in
the pages of your book is not limited to that
moment in time in terms of the content and what
you're sharing, And there's should always be an opportunity to
(28:11):
maybe take what you share in chapter three randomigible, to
pick that randomly, and it may say something specific to
twenty twenty four when you put your book out, but
in twenty twenty six, maybe there's a new story in
the news where that core theme really ties in and
you get to bring it back out and talk about
it around that timely news or those trending topics that
are going on, and so you know, always kind of
(28:33):
identifying those points at which those those key things that
you're saying have application to later moments just always kind
of brings it back up again.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
And that's what we often do again on the publicity.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Side of things, and keeping that the leadership relevant over time. Yeah. Yeah,
so that I want to circle back to something. I
think it's in part two of the book, but is
you know, we try to have the daunting process of
writing many, many tens of thousands of words that end
up in a book typically and the creation of content.
(29:08):
And we're talking about a lot of words here, but
there is a chapter in your book that's dedicated to
something that's usually best with as little words as possible,
and that's the title. And you went all in and
picked one word for your title. So tell us I
want to kind of take a duel approach here. One
(29:30):
is tell us how you got to unwritten? And two
and again I kind of my naturally segue there is
that's I feel like that has to be the hardest.
It's like naming your child. Yeah, I know, like it
was really I am nineteen months on the home and
it was we were like down to the wire and like,
what are we naming this child? And I wouldn't tell
(29:51):
anyone his name because I was afraid of that came out.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
If he didn't look like the Lucas.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Then we go back to the drawing board and actually
he looked look the air.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Coat of.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You're okay with that?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, but it is pressure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's just like signing off on that line to say, yeah,
this is the title of my book, and so tell
us a little bit more about unwritten.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Oh yeah, titles. Titles are the bane of my existence sometimes,
like yeah, because I think sometimes people talk to writers
and they're like, well, you'll know a snappy title right
as soon as I tell you about the hard about
a title. So I feel that pressure when I'm working
with editing clients too, like what's a good title. I'm
gonna think about it while I'm reading, and I'll let
you know what I come up with. So that's how
(30:36):
I I recommend doing it. Like sometimes the idea is
just comment whatever, Like you read a line, you're like, oh,
that's a really important line. Can we write a title
around that, you know that kind of thing. One of
my editing clients she has a ton of one liners
in her book. She's just really good at She used
to be a screenwriter, so she has like those kinds
of snacks screen Yeah, exactly, Like can you can I
(30:59):
employ you to work with my co No? So sometimes
it does. It just comes like that. It's just like
comes to you. I wanted a title that was a
little bit I really wanted a funny title. I don't
think I really managed to come up with something funny
or something that was a double entendre or something that
was a little bit quirky, like unwritten. I've gotten really
(31:20):
good responses, they're like, oh, the book is written, ha ha. Right,
And there's the Natasha Beddingfield song that I really love
and it's kind of an anthem. Yeah, it's such a
great song. And so that, you know, it just kind
of came to me as like, Oh, that that's what
it's going to be. That stuck. I was playing around
with other titles. I had like a list of twenty
(31:41):
at one point. You know, this is this is what
you do. You storm and then you move subtitles around
and you run them by your publisher, and the publisher
tweaks them too, you know, because mine's a little long.
The subtitle is a bit long. I always point to
there's a woman named Tasha Urik, and she has this
book with the story Oh my God, so she had
(32:02):
is titled that's like thirty words subtitled. It's like thirty
words long. And I always think that's hilarious. You know,
so break the rules if it's funny, if it works
for you, if it works for your brand, of course,
But yeah, I think in general, you kind of you
want something that hits your gut, and you want something
that that makes sense. And then if you have, if
you have thoughts, start googling them, because you know you can't.
(32:25):
You can't copyright a book title. Nobody owns the book title.
So technically you could call your book the Bible. But
would you want you is that a good idea?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah? You for for marketing again, marketing purposes, positioning. You
probably don't want the same book title as someone else
in your field, for sure, or you know, you do
want confusion around your book title. You want when people
google it, they can find your book, right, that's that's
really important. So that's that's where you start. You come
up with some ideas and then you google them and
(32:56):
you see what happens. I mean, it's the same thing
with naming my business. I kind of did it the
same way. I was like, oh, I want to I
want a title that you know, talks about my background
as a professor, but also this new adventure that I'm
going into. You know, you kind of play around with
different ideas and google around and see yeah, and then
(33:16):
you know, I always say, if you come up with
like three and you can't decide, put those out on
LinkedIn and see what feedback you get. I don't recommend
putting twenty titles out and getting feedback because it'll be
too messy. And also think about who's giving you the feedback.
If it's not someone who would buy your book or
be your client, you can discount their opinion. So be
(33:37):
mindful about whose opinions are taking. But and see what
you get. You know, you might be you might be
surprised and like oh this one, this is the one,
and then you might get used to it might be
like you're right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
If you if you narrow a town, you can use
the pole function on link limits how many like options
you can given.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
There is another good reason.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
To live at pulling through the comments to try to
figure out, okay, how many volks were for this one
and how many for that.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
One, so you know, narrow it down.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You come down at least three five, and then use
the pull function on LinkedIn to ask everybody for that feedback.
But I'm always curious of you know, twenty seven years ago,
the planning process that our founder Dan Smith went through
in creating Smith Publicity, I was.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Like, that was a tough one there. Yeah, it's stuck.
It's stuck. We haven't changed it. We're still not all
these years later, and it's probably not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
So yeah, And I mean, if you already have a
signature program that has a snappy title, there's nothing wrong
with titling your book the same thing or orna, even
the name of your business, you know, if if that
makes sense, Yeah, it's going to be. If you have
a lot of programs, it can be confusing to name
the book after one, but you know, you know, all
those considerations can come into play. It's it's really you
(34:58):
wanted to be more, you know, easy to search and
easy to find.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, you bring up such a great important point there
at the end of just you know, how much is
it connecting to what your brand looks like today?
Speaker 3 (35:10):
And I think it's like, yes, if you are.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
If your program the offer now, if your brand as
it is today is what you plan to kind of
ride out into the sunset for the foreseeable future, been
building that connection and such as is very much worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
But like think, oh, I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Might be changing X, Y or Z, I might want
to grow into this or that in the future. Then
you know, being a little more cautious with the direct
connection to what you're offering right now is such good
advice exactly. So gosh, well, Emily, this is such a
wonderful conversation. I have one more quick question for it
before we wrap up for today, and I would love
(35:46):
and as you reflect on your years of ghost writing
and editing and now as an author, what is one
piece of advice that you would give to someone embarking
on this exciting and daunte and over journey but also
just really great too that you have now as you.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Know, someone with this dual perspective.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, I would just say, you know, we think so
often of writing as this solitary thing that you go
in your office and you shut the door and you
do it by yourself until it's finished. And I just
think that's the wrong way to approach writing. It's so
much more fun when you have partners. When you have
you know, find our friend who's also writing a book
or wants to write a book, and say, okay, let's meet,
(36:30):
let's do some coworking, find a ghostwriter, collaborative writer to
work with you. Figure out who is going to be
your support system, who's going to be part of part
of your team, who's going to help you with the
marketing and the publicity right figure out who those partners
are so you can start talking to them, because it
just gives you so much more energy around the book.
If you think about having to go and work on
(36:51):
your book by yourself every day, it's just it can
steal so much more daunting. So you know, think of
it more in a collaborative space, and I think you'll
have more fun with it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
But it's a team approach and it's so great to
have those partners with you at all stages of the
of the process.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
So I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
With this question I get to ask you, not only
where can people learn more about you and where can
they find you, where they can they connect with you,
but also where can they buy Unwritten?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yes, you can buy Unwritten wherever you look for books.
So it's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble, it's
on bookshop dot org. Wherever you look for books, you
should be able to find it. And yes, you can
find me on my website, which is the Pocket PhD
dot com. You can also find me on LinkedIn at
Emily Crookston. And I'm happy to connect with anyone I
(37:42):
like to play on LinkedIn, So come and come and chat,
come and see me there.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, absolutely, I highly encourage you to follow along with
Emily on LinkedIn, has great content and has an amazing
free Unwritten Book summit that's available too, where some incredible experts.
I have to I don't know how you found these
amazing people, but I happen to be one person. Emily.
Thank you again for that amongst those amazing minds, and
(38:10):
so again, thank you so much for joining us. We
are so excited to celebrate this moment in your career
with you and to get a chance to work more
closely together for anyone who is joining in with USIA,
thank you so much for being here today. If you
want to learn more about Smith Publicity, please visit us
at Smith Publicity dot com, subscribe to the podcast and
(38:31):
tune into some of our other episodes as well. Have
a wonderful day everyone.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Thank you, thank you for listening to this episode of
the Smith Publicity All Things Book Marketing podcast. To reach
us and learn about our many services, visit Smith Publicity
dot com or send us an email to info at
Smith Publicity dot com.
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