August 24, 2025 • 39 mins
The after effects of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the subject of an interesting documentary co-produced by Kelly and Tanabe. Their predecessors fought on opposite sides during WWII. "Atomic Echoes" features interviews with Japanese bombing survivors and US military members who entered the zones shortly after the bombings.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to American Warrior Radio, Ladies and gentlemen. This is
your host, Ben buler Garcia American Warrior Radio broadcast from
the Silencer Central Studios. If you're thinking of getting a
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(00:46):
if owning a silencer is legal in your state. They
can then complete the paperwork and ship right to your
front door, making silence simple. Silencercentral dot Com. On August
sixth and ninth, nineteen forty five, the United States dropped
to tom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, respectively. Japan
would announce it surrender six days after the bombing of
Nagasaki on August fifteenth. Now, thankfully, these terrible weapons have
(01:10):
not been deployed since, especially now that we know the
lingering and devastating effects of radiation sickness. Today, we're going
to talk about those after effects with an author, poet,
and now documentary filmmaker, Victoria Kelly and her documentary co
producer partner Karen Tanabi. It's the eightieth anniversary of these bombings. Ladies, gentlemen,
you can learn more of visit Atomic echoesfilm dot com. Victoria,
(01:34):
welcome back to American Warrior Radio. And Karen, Welcome to
American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Thanks Ben. I was excited to be able to talk
to you again after talking about my last book last
year with you.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Last time we talked to you was that your book
was Hometown Stories, and it was a series of short
stories inspired by your time as a military spouse, and
that I got to say, honestly, your poem when Men
Go After War is still literally one of the best
I've ever read as far as communicating to those civilian
families who never have someone who served about the impacts
(02:08):
upon our military family. So congratulations on that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Lot's happened since then, a little.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Bit, a little bit, we're both less huh.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So your documentary, Atomic Echoes, it's called atomic echoes Untold
Stories of World War Two, and that was just released.
People can find it right now on their local PBS
station or the PBS app or website. It examines the
after effects of the bombing from both the Japanese and
American perspectives. Now, Karen, this documentary is the product of
(02:39):
I won't say unlikely and unlikely partnership, that's not the
right word. But you kind of came out of left field,
or I mean, you and Victoria were out bouncing around
in the same battle space, but then you came together.
Tell us how that story came to be.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Ben, That's exactly it. It was a bit out of
left field because we've been good friends since twenty seventeen.
I'm also a writer, we share an editor, and for
years we've just been friends. And then the film Oppenheimer
came out, and while we thought it was a very
good movie, we both thought that it was a missed
(03:14):
opportunity to show what happened underneath the mushroom clouds after
the atomic bombs were dropped. And we organically just had
this conversation about the film and Victoria said, you know,
my grandfather was actually in Nagasaki forty five days after
the bomb dropped, and he was really impacted by this,
and I was like, what, Victoria, We've never even discussed
(03:36):
Japan before. I'm half Japanese, my dad was born in
Japan during the war, and I don't think we'd ever
talked about Japan. And all of a sudden, I was like,
you have this incredibly strong connection. So we started talking
about it, and I was like, let's do something. Let's
write an article about this, and that article became a
(03:57):
documentary one year later.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I think you're oversimplifying things a little bit because
I want to focus on that that one year later journey.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
There was a little bit of a journey.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I mean, Victoria, this is your first adventure into documentary filmmaking,
and from what I know, I mean, I'm just a
dumb radio host. But most documentaries don't go from concept
to release in one year. I mean, that seems like
light speed. And was I think I know the answer
to this, but what was the principal motivation behind getting
(04:29):
this out and done right away?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Well, it is light speed. We did not know until
very recently that most documentars averaged three to five years
to create and get them released. So thankfully, We didn't
know that because we thought, well, we can do this,
and so but we had the goal of having this
(04:53):
air by the eightieth anniversary of the bombs. We knew
there'd be a lot of attention around that anniversary, and
so we it really pushed us to get this done.
I mean, every from concept to fundraising that was you know,
a very difficult part, a very long part of the process.
To finding the veterans to interview in the film was
(05:16):
also a difficult task. And then also traveling around literally
around the world filming this, you know, different states, going
to Japan, production, post production, all of that, and you know,
we're really lucky. We worked with Blue Chalk Media, a
film company on this, and they were the ones who really,
(05:38):
you know, we're able to help us get this done
in a year with all of their experience and connections,
and we had an amazing director and team and who
really helped make this happen. So so thanks to them,
we were really able to like step into this new
film world that we had never been in before and
(05:58):
and yeah, and make this film.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I tell you, part of the reason I'm excited, Victoria
and you and I talked about this a little bit
before we went on the airs. The entire mission of
American Warrior Radio is to record and spread these important
stories because, particularly when you talk about the World War
Two generation, now the Korean generation to great extent, even
the Vietnam generation, we're losing these people rapidly and if
these stories aren't recorded, they are lost forever. So it's
(06:26):
important that we get this out there. And I'm curious,
Ben gets a dumb question every show. You know that, Victoria,
but but are you limited by your contract when we
talk about spreading this word as far and wide as possible?
And I know the innerwebs is very powerful, but are
you limited? I mean, can you eventually add it to
Netflix or Amazon Prime or how does that work logistically?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, that's our goal, honestly. So we worked with American
Public Television, who partners with PBS. We have a six
month contract with them. Hopefully we'll be able to extend
that and keep it on PBS longer. But our goal
is really to have this more widespread even than that,
especially for young audiences. We really want them to watch it.
(07:11):
So yeah, we're really hopeful that we can get this
on other platforms.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Also, Karen's there's two I'm sorry, Karen, were you going.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
To say something.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I was just going to say that I just came
back from Japan as well, and I have been working
to get it on Japanese TV also, so we're trying
to get this widespread in the US, but also to
get it on television in Japan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely, I mean that that would certainly support the underlying
mission of the entire documentary, right from showing both both perspectives.
I time when we come back, I like to talk
a little bit more about those two different perspectives. Really
you're talking about And Karen correct me if I get
this wrong in the pronunciation the Hiba Kusha, which is
the name given for the estimated six hundred and fifty
(07:56):
thousand victims surviving victims of the bombings, and then all
also we're going to talk about the atomic veterans, were
the soldiers who responded in the immediate aftermath of the bombings,
and real quick, before we take the break, Victoria, explain
to us who the atomic veterans are.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So the atomic veterans, that term refers to anyone who
was exposed to nuclear radiation, either in Japan in the
aftermath of the bomb or through nuclear testing. So it
applies to anyone really from the nineteen forties to the
nineteen sixties. In this film, we're just focusing on the
men who were in Japan. So that small group there
(08:36):
were sixty seven thousand total soldiers who qualified for that term.
Today they are fewer than ten still alive. So yeah,
we're really wanting to use this Atomic Echoes film as
a vehicle to tell their stories.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And so I guess that explains because I've seen different numbers.
I see two hundred thousand atomic veterans. I see sixty
seven thousand atomic veterans. So you're really for how many
actually went to Japan immediately after the bombs dropped. About
twenty eight thousand to the best of your knowledge.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Two hundred thousand is the ask to be a number
of people who passed through one of those cities before
the end of nineteen forty five. Sixty seven thousand were
assigned for at least a month or more to Nagasaki
and Hiroshima. Okay, So yeah, so we use sixty seven
thousand because they were the ones who were living there
(09:30):
for months.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Very good, ladies and gentle when we come back, we're
go and take a deeper dive into this story. We're
talking to Victoria Kelly and Karen Tanami, co producers of
a great documentary called Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World
War Two. You can currently find that on your local
PBS station or the app stick around.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
We will be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's
your host, Ben Bler Garcia. We're talking about a new
documentary that was just released called Atomic Echoes, Untold Stories
of World War Two, and it brings a very interesting,
well too, very interesting perspectives because the co producers of
Victoria Kelly and Karen Sanabi, their families, their ancestors fought
on opposite sides during the war, and now they've come
(10:35):
together to produce a documentary about the after effects of
those victims in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Any time we get
an opportunity interview a World War Two veteran, they go
right to the front of the queue. I mean, I've literally,
in the over a decade I've been doing this show,
I've literally had a situation where I had someone booked
and they passed away in the entrum before we could
(10:58):
actually get their story record. So finding those veterans is
difficult enough, but finding veterans who were exposed to extreme
radiation has got to be even more difficult. And Victoria,
I think you alluded there's to the best knowledge is
only ten of those survivors remaining.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
We're estimating ten or fewer. We spoke to eight in
the research for the film. We were able to feature three.
Two got very sick. We had our tickets booked, one
had a stroke, one got six so we had to
cancel those interviews. So finding them alone is hard, but
then finding someone who's healthy and able to do it
(11:36):
and also able to remember, and one changed his mind.
It was too traumatic for him to talk about it,
so he changed his mind. So yeah, it was it
was a hard We were really happy to have the
three amazing veterans in this film that we found.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Karen, I don't want to say your job was easier,
but you had a larger pool, if you will, to
draw upon, But perhaps or vivability rate was less, just
because they had the direct exposure to of course the
bombing itself, the fires and the aftermath, and then the radiation.
How did you go about finding those persons in Japan
to come on and agree to be interviewed for the documentary.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
There are more Japanese survivors, or as they're known in Japan, hibakusha,
but our biggest challenge was we very much wanted to
do this in English, so it was finding Japanese survivors
who spoke fluent English, and there are not many of those.
So I knew one Coco Kondo, who is a very
(12:37):
prominent hibakusha in Hiroshima and her father was a minister.
He actually met the pilot of the Enola Gay one
of the pilots of the anologay on TV, and she
has been involved in this for a long time, so
she was one of my first asks. But finding someone
in Nagasaki was harder, just because we wanted the English
(12:58):
to really connect to American audiences in a different way,
something that paired really well with the veterans to kind
of expand this story. So it was tough, but we
definitely have more people to choose from in Japan. That's true.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That brings up Ben's second dumb question of the show.
I'm not set a record here, but you know, if
you're looking at broadcast in Japan, then do you think
you'll need to dub it.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So we will definitely add subtitles to this in Japan.
I think everyone we've showed so far in Japan, they've
been so moved by the American veteran stories. That's what
they keep bringing up to us, just how powerful it
is to see these men talk about never again with
nuclear bombs. So we want to make sure their emotions,
(13:44):
their perspectives are really well understood in Japan. So definitely
we would add subtitles.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, and a question to both of you is start
with you, Victoria, because I experienced this sometimes as well.
There's a certain element of reopening old wounds when you
speak to any veteran and ask them to tell their
combat stories or to relive that trauma, and you'd mentioned
at least one veteran back down and said no, I
(14:10):
can't do it. Was that also a challenge on the
civilian side in Japan or I mean that's in general,
that's just when you do these kinds of interviews, that's
going to be an issue to keeping it on eye on.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I think it was a lot harder for the veterans
because they don't typically talk about this in public. It
really most of them had never really gone into depth
about it before to media in any way, just really
with their families here and there. But in Japan they're
a lot more used to talking about it because there's
(14:43):
a really big movement to preserve their stories and the
stories of the survivors, and they do a lot of
public speaking, so I think it become easier for them
in a lot of ways. There was definitely some trauma,
you know that our interview brought up for some of
the soldiers, which was difficult, and we had to kind
(15:04):
of balance that with the need to like get the
stories out there. And they understood that too, and that's
what they wanted, which is why they agreed to be on.
But yeah, it's hard to make them relive something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, and Karen, I tell you one of that coco
A what a gem she is, bless her heart, Oh
she is. And in watching the documentary, it seems pretty
clear to me clearly there's I don't want to sue
comfort levels not the right word, but clearly on the
Japanese side, the survivor side, there was a little more
openness to discussing this. And maybe that's the thing about
(15:36):
we want to make sure our story is told than
we never the world never ever does this again.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, So Coco's been a peace activist since she was
a child. I mean, in a way, she had no choice,
you know, her her father was a very prominent figure
in the peace movement, and so she's been doing this
her entire life. So she's very eloquent. She understands how
important her message is. But she was crying. You know,
(16:03):
I'm crying. Victoria's crying, and like you're like, she's been
doing this here entire life and she's still crying from this,
you know, and such genuine tears. More about how important
it is to pass on the message than crying over
her own trauma.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Just maybe think of something I found that I'll do
an interview with a combat veteran and you know, it's okay, great,
But then I see them do a podcast or something
where they're talking to a fellow combat veteran, not a
civilian like myself, and it's a whole different conversation. Don't
tell my syndicateor of this, but I think almost, you know,
a better conversation in many ways, because there's something about
(16:42):
been there, done that got the T shirt that tends
to open people up a little bit more and for
the two of you, What is your perspective. Do you
think the fact that you've got a personal family connection
to both of these bombings, do you think that that
sort of establaged you know, your bona fides going in.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh I think it made a giant difference, the fact
that we represent both sides. For the Japan side, there's
so many asks around the eightieth anniversary, right these Hibakusha,
these survivors are kind of being just flooded in these requests.
So to kind of say like, hey, we want to
do this in a different way, in a way that's
(17:21):
going to maybe open a few more minds in America
that's been done before. I think that was really important.
And on the US side, I know Victoria was able
to connect with so many veterans because of her family
story and the fact that she's just so likable.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Well, we come back, we'll catch on those family stories
a little bit more of Victoria. Because there's one item
that travels through the documentary, I'll put it that way,
and that's a battle flag. I call it a bottle flag.
Karen will have to give me the official name for it.
One of the quick questions on the logisticshoere we get
a little bit more into the story. And one of
(17:57):
the challenges here, Karen Victoria's you don't want to give
too much away. You want people to watch the documentary, right,
so we hope to inspire them to do that. It
is really well done. Guys and gentlemen. There's our host,
Ben Biler Garcia. We're talking with Victoria, Kelly and Karen Tanabi.
You can find out more of visit Atomic Echosfilm dot
com to learn more about this great documentary is broadcasting
(18:19):
now wherever you hear and whenever you hear this broadcast.
It's broadcasting now on PBS, and I think you kids
now use an app or something like that where you
can also, you know, find it on demand, so you
don't have to be like an old guy like me
and trying to you know, sit by the TV and
wait for the actual the app broadcast to come out,
so don't forget. You can find this podcast and over
six hundred others at American Warrior Radio dot com. We're
(18:40):
also on your favorite streaming platform, whatever that might be.
iHeart Pandora, Spotify. The important to spread these messages, so
please share them with your friends. We'll be right back.
(19:13):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is your host, Ben Bula Garcia. We're coming to you
from the Silencer Central Studios. Silencer Central as the largest
silencer dealer in the world. For a limited time, they'll
even pick up the costs of the tax stamp and
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(19:33):
of suppressors. They'll complete all the paperwork and ship right
to your front door, making silence simple since two thousand
and five. That Selentorcentral dot com. We're talking with Victoria
Kelly and Karen Tanabi. They are the co producers if
I got that right of a great documentary that's just
been released. You can find it on PBS. It's called
Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World War Two, and it
(19:55):
examines the after effects of those bombings from both perspectives,
from the Japanese perspective and the US perspective, interviewing actual
people who were there and experienced it. Karen, before we
took the break we're sort of teasing about this combat
flag that came into your family's possession, and during the
documentary kind of to some extent, follow the path of
(20:17):
this flag, tell us about your grandfather.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah, so one of the through lines of the film
is right before we started filming this, actually my aunt
found this flag. The Japanese called it good Luck flag,
and it had been in my grandmother's possessions and then
passed along to my aunt. My grandfather was a US
medic during World War Two and he was one of
(20:42):
the first American soldiers to go into Nagasaki after the
atomic bombs, and so we never knew about the existence
of this flag, and so we didn't know where he
got it from. A lot of the flags were taken
after battles off of jaf Any soldiers who had been killed.
It was kind of like a souvenir. Sometimes they would
(21:04):
be resold back in the US. It was just, I mean,
it was just the way, you know, all the soldiers
tried to get one. It was just kind of what
they did. And so we didn't really know where this
flag had come from. So part of the film shows
us on a journey to figure out who the family
is who owned the flat, who the person is who
(21:25):
own the flag, and try and find the family and
return it, which is a lot harder than you would
think in Japan because there's just not as much accessibility
of people's records publicly as there is in the US,
so it's a lot harder to find to find people
there than here.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So that's interesting because the flags were signed right by
family members and neighbors and other folks. You know, I'm
wishing that that soldier good luck. So yeah, you would
think it would be easier, but apparently it's not. It's
not like the US, where you know, a couple Google
search and you can find out what Ben had for
breakfast exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, so they were all they were all signed by friends, family.
Usually they always had the person's name somewhere. Some of
them had the hometown, some of them didn't. So we
were lucky this one did have the hometown. We knew
it came from Nagasaki, the Nagasaki area, and so we
(22:22):
were able to partner with the Museum Peace Museum in
Nagasaki and they helped us locate the family. I won't
give away too much. Yeah, but there is a little
old twist.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
At the end, I'd say a significant twist definitely, not
not a complete linear progression. But she had to watch
the documentary to get the answer to that. Victoria, your
your grandfather arrived there at the site within a I
mean literally a matter of days after the bombing, And
is if I understand this correctly. You know he came
(22:58):
back after the war, He struggle quite a bit, like
many veterans do, and he died awfully young. Do you
have an answer as to whether that had something to
do with the radiation poisoning?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So he arrived six weeks after the bombs, which was
the first wave of troops to come in. They had
sent a few scattered troops to kind of check things
out before that, but the main wave of troops came
in six weeks after, which was actually even earlier than Hiroshima.
They didn't come until about eight weeks after the bomb,
(23:35):
so they really were the first Americans to see the effects.
Six weeks. It was the peak of radiation sickness. About
at about six weeks, radiation sickness hits its height. So
he really came in and as a medic, I'm sure
saw a lot. So he came home had pretty severe PTSD,
(23:57):
which we now know but at the time was really
recognize started drinking and kind of drink all the way through.
He died at forty two from alcohol poisoning, So I'm
not sure would he have survived longer, would the radiation
have taken effect. I'm not really sure. You know, the
(24:18):
drinking really was what ended his life in the end.
But there were definitely memories that my mom had of
his PTS, you know, things that were really simple, like
couldn't be among crowds that today we know, like, oh,
well that we know what that is, but back then,
like they didn't really know what that was. You know.
The family had to move from New York City out
(24:40):
to We're all New Jersey to kind of get away
from the crowd. So yeah, so he definitely struggled a lot.
Was really never the same after that.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And the reason I want to bring that up is,
I don't know if you had planned this, Victorian, Karen,
but one of the second order effects that has come
about through your progression and making this documentary, one of
the veterans you interviewed, and I think it meek Us
ONSTUDT he still struggles and he tells you on camera,
(25:11):
and when he's talking about his challenges with the VA
and getting help and basically says, if I can't prove it,
I'm stuck. And as I understand that the rules where look,
if you want to make a claim under this, you
have to show us your radiation levels, which I mean,
you know what, seventy years later is going to be
kind of a challenge. So you've seen or encouraging or
(25:34):
helping to lead the charge to get some changes made.
And there's something I think it's called the Presume Act
that's that's helping out with these atomic atomic veterans.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Correct. Yeah, we're big advocates of the Presume Act. So
we've spoken at length with the National Association of Atomic
Veterans who's really behind all of the advocacy for that.
And the idea behind the Presume Act is that if
you have certain illnesses or cancers, that there is the
(26:04):
automatic presumption that those were caused by radiation if you
were involved in testing or in Japan, so and so.
Up until now, it's really always been you had to
somehow prove it, which is nearly impossible. Eighty six percent
of atomic veterans medical claims are rejected and so the
(26:27):
prazuom Act would be really life changing for those who
are still alive. You know, there's not just the World
War Two veterans, but there's veterans who are younger who
really need that care.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Also, now, Karen, your family connection, if I understand this correctly,
your father was a survivor. He was a child at
the time. Well, what really touched me? I want to
share this my father. We were missionaries and everywhere we
lived my father planted a tree. Wow, And there's an
aspect of the story on your side of the family
(26:58):
just jumped out of me when it comes trees. But
again they'll have to watch the documentary to get the
edse of that. But tell us about your personal connection.
We got just about a minute and a half for
the next break herein.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Yeah, So my father was not in Hiroshima, Nagasaki. He
was in Yokohama, which is near right near Toko, and
he survived the fire bombing of Yokohama, so he ran
into the water with his mother and luckily wasn't burned
from that. But my great great uncle was from Hiroshima
and he became the first president of Hiroshima University after
(27:31):
the war. Ended and really devoted his life to peace,
to greening that campus, and to rebuilding a city that
was almost just ash after the war.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Okay, and you know that's something else that jumped out
of me. We touched on a little bit earlier in
the show, but I did an interview recently about the
Mount fujifire, which, if you're not familiar with, that was
just a tragic incident where several marines were killed and
very many badly burned at the base of at a
camp at the base of Mount Fuji after a typhoon.
And anyway, long story, but they know we're talking nineteen
(28:07):
seventy nine, and the author remarked about how that we're
talking only thirty thirty five years after the end of
the war, but how helpful the local Japanese populace and
the military and the firefighters were about helping those Americans
out during that very challenging time. And there's certainly an
aspect of that as well. I believe in your documentary
(28:30):
and what we've read about, and I keep coming back
to Cokeland. I want to touch on her again. We
come back because that's a very at least that element
of the story is very touching. So, ladies and gentlemen,
there's your host, Ben Dela Garcia. We're talking with Victoria
Kelly and Karen Tanabi about their documentary. You can find
out more of his Atomic echoesfilm dot com. We'll be
right back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. There's your host,
(29:14):
Ben deler Garcia. We're talking with Victoria Kelly and Karen
Tanami about their documentary Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World
War Two. It's out now. You can find it on
PBS or one of their apps. A very powerful documentary
that shows the after impacts of the bombings of Hiroshima
and Nagasaki from personal interviews with people who experienced it.
(29:37):
And you know, I touched before the break about how
attitudes has changed. I still find it, eighty years later,
pretty amazing, given the destructiveness of that war and the
amount of hate that was involved. Particularly I'm both in
the European and the Pacific theater. But eighty years later,
now Japan is one of our strongest to allies. And
(30:01):
I don't know if you got some insights to that
when you're in Japan, or I assume you would support that.
Did you intend that for that to come out in
the documentary. Maybe it was a better way to ask
a question.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I don't think it was like the first thing we
wanted to show, but it really did come across pretty
fast to us that that was part of this story.
And it's true. Japan and America are extremely close allies
now we have a great relationship and we have for decades.
I think part of what comes across the documentary is
(30:38):
just how exhausted people were on both sides from the
war and how human connections can just change everything. One
of our veterans, Larry Presley, he talked about being welcomed
into a Japanese home being fed an amazing meal, how
it would have been rude for him not to go,
(30:58):
and we were like, rude for you not to go.
This is like, you know, two months after our countries
were at war. It's it's incredible to hear so just
how quickly things changed for the US and Japan and
how much that was really based a lot on like
the way that people interacted with each other, and then
(31:19):
the respect that was shown after the war, and you know,
it really just showed the strength of human spirit and
the human relationship.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
And I will add to that Nagasaki has always been
a very Catholic city, which is pretty rare in Japan.
My grandfather was Italian Catholic, and I think when he
arrived he had no idea that I think most of
the Americans had no idea that they might have shared
that faith, you know, with their quote unquote enemies, and
(31:49):
so I think that was probably a big part of
their seeing each other's humanity, you know, when they when
they got when they both when they all finally met
each other during peacetime.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well, and that brings us back to nice transition there, Victoria.
That brings us back to Coco Kundo. Her father was
a Methodist minister who also survived. And when they're cleaning
up the rubble, there's an image in the documentary of
a cross in this church, and where they're cleaning up
the rubble, he found this long piece of wooden that
decided to make a cross out of it, and that's
(32:24):
still on display in the church. But I think another
powerful segment of that going back, Karen, you mentioned that
that Coco had a chance to meet one of the
one of the pilots that flew one of the bombers
that drops the bomb. You sit on TV. I want
to clarify that her father was on a TV game
show or a feature show and the pilot was there,
(32:45):
so she physically was in that pilot's presence, and at
ten years old, she forgave him.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, she talked to us at length about that she
actually didn't know where they were going. They were on
the plane to the US, and she still wasn't told
what they were doing, and maybe that was to keep
her emotions at bay before it happened. But she talked
to us about watching her father, a minister, meet this
(33:16):
man and how this pilot was crying. You know, he
was so impacted about what happened, and in that moment
when she saw him crying is when is when she
forgave him. So just that capacity to forgive and seeing
someone who was really the enemy and then seeing their
(33:38):
humanity was amazing to hear from her.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Karen around Victoria, I'm sorry, we've had you on the
show before, and we've had as I recall, that's been
a couple years now, but we had some pretty interesting conversations.
But one of the other missions, I would guess, so
this documentary is to make sure people understand how variable
these weapons are, and they've gotten even more so. I
(34:04):
don't know what the figure is. I mean, you know,
Nagasuking Heroshima probably about a third of what the power
effects of the current bombs are, and certainly in the
context of what we're seeing in the world today right now,
that's even more important. And Victoria, I saw you do
an interview where you emphasize, look, you can be against
nuclear war and still be a patriot. And I want
(34:24):
people to understand that that this movement nobody wants to
see nuclear war. In fact, I've been told that the
people hate war the most obviously that people have to
go fight it.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, And the veterans in the film are I mean,
they're very clear. They were really proud of their service.
They're proud to be Americans. I mean Larry, one of
our veterans, he puts the flag up outside his house
and takes it down every day. I mean it is
a huge part of his life still his identity as
a as a marine. And all three of them, you know,
(35:00):
read on one thing, which is, you know, we we
can never have this again. You know, we're we you know,
we don't talk in the film about was it right
or wrong? To have dropped it in that moment in history.
You know, there's all kinds of controversy around that, but
you know, the mission of the film is really to
show people, here's the reality behind nuclear weapons. Here's what's
(35:24):
still happening eighty years later to these people who are there.
You know, so let's really think beyond them as just
you know, a mushroom cloud and think about them as
as a weapon that can really, you know, have a
century plus lasting impact.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, I love Karen's phrase that you know, the people
under the mushroom cloud, because I know I've seen again
seen interviews where one of the challenges was it's it's
we see film and photos of the physical destruction of
these cities, but you know, not so much the the
after effects on the children, on the people who were
(36:02):
so badly burned, on the you know, the kids that
were developing leukemia. So I'm kind of one other thing
I want to emphasize because as this strikes me very well,
we talked about these these war souvenirs and the repatriating them.
And if folks go to your website, there is a
link to a website called Nagasakipiece dot JP JP of
course being a Japanese website. Is there anywhere else that
(36:27):
if our listeners out there listening to have family members
who passed away and they do have their hands on
some of these World War two use the quotation fingers souvenirs,
is there way one place or I guess I want
to encourage people to look into returning those and repatriating
those is a way of helping, you know, bring us
(36:47):
back to that, to that humanity that you both talked on.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, they can contact us through the website and we
can help them with that. There is an organization in
the US that helps return the flags we did, we
returned and ours through our networks within Japan. But yeah,
I mean we can definitely help with that through the
you know, through the website. The organization in the US
(37:11):
is called the Obah Society and they can go there
to look for more information.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Okay, and then just real quickly again, I also want
I encourage our listeners out there, if you have a
family member or you have been listening and you are
an atomic veteran, there is there's been a lot of
work moving forward. Now you there are there is now
an atomic Veterans commentatives Commemories Service medal that will recognize
you for your unique service out there. And I think
(37:38):
there's also initiative to building an Atomic Veterans War memorial
Karen and Victoria last question I mentioned we share a
common mission of recording these stories and communicate them so
that they're never forgotten. This is your first venture into
documentary filmmaking. Are you going to do another one?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
We would love to do another one with a little
bit more time. I think we will never do another
one within a calendar year again. But I think through
this we've realized that sort of maybe fate, a higher
power brought us together, that we happen to have this
incredible connection, and we certainly want to do more with it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Victoria, this film is so powerful as a medium, and
we both have really loved being a part of this
project and so we definitely want to stay involved in
the film industry and try and tell stories in that
way in the future.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Well, let me make a suggestion. If you get started
on the Space Force now, you'll probably have a little
bit of working time to ladies and gentlemen. You can
find out more visit Atomic echosfilm dot com. Victoria's website
is Victoria Hyphen, Kelly, Kelly Spilled, k E. L l I,
and Karen. Do you have a website or so please
share it with us.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
YEP, it's just my name, Ka r I T A
n Ape dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Ladies and gentlemen, please check out this documentary. It's very
powerful and there's a lot of messages that have come
out there and a lot of good, a lot of
good second and third order effects. And congratulations to you
both for returning us nationwide, well actually in two nations,
back to this conversation. I hope to see lots of
other great stuff coming out. Thanks you, Thank you both
for sharing your time with our listeners today.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Thank you so much, Ben, Thank you Ben.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Ladies and gentlemen. Until next time, all policies and procedures
are to remain in place. Take care.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
be found at Americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to American Warrior Radio, Ladies and gentlemen. This is
your host, Ben buler Garcia American Warrior Radio broadcast from
the Silencer Central Studios. If you're thinking of getting a
silencer for one or more of your weapons, there's never
been a better time to do so. For a limited time,
our friends at Sallencer Central will pick up the cost
of your tax stamp on select suppressors. That's a two
hundred dollars value. There's a Slencercentral dot Com to confirm
(00:46):
if owning a silencer is legal in your state. They
can then complete the paperwork and ship right to your
front door, making silence simple. Silencercentral dot Com. On August
sixth and ninth, nineteen forty five, the United States dropped
to tom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, respectively. Japan
would announce it surrender six days after the bombing of
Nagasaki on August fifteenth. Now, thankfully, these terrible weapons have
(01:10):
not been deployed since, especially now that we know the
lingering and devastating effects of radiation sickness. Today, we're going
to talk about those after effects with an author, poet,
and now documentary filmmaker, Victoria Kelly and her documentary co
producer partner Karen Tanabi. It's the eightieth anniversary of these bombings. Ladies, gentlemen,
you can learn more of visit Atomic echoesfilm dot com. Victoria,
(01:34):
welcome back to American Warrior Radio. And Karen, Welcome to
American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Thanks Ben. I was excited to be able to talk
to you again after talking about my last book last
year with you.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Last time we talked to you was that your book
was Hometown Stories, and it was a series of short
stories inspired by your time as a military spouse, and
that I got to say, honestly, your poem when Men
Go After War is still literally one of the best
I've ever read as far as communicating to those civilian
families who never have someone who served about the impacts
(02:08):
upon our military family. So congratulations on that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Lot's happened since then, a little.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Bit, a little bit, we're both less huh.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So your documentary, Atomic Echoes, it's called atomic echoes Untold
Stories of World War Two, and that was just released.
People can find it right now on their local PBS
station or the PBS app or website. It examines the
after effects of the bombing from both the Japanese and
American perspectives. Now, Karen, this documentary is the product of
(02:39):
I won't say unlikely and unlikely partnership, that's not the
right word. But you kind of came out of left field,
or I mean, you and Victoria were out bouncing around
in the same battle space, but then you came together.
Tell us how that story came to be.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Ben, That's exactly it. It was a bit out of
left field because we've been good friends since twenty seventeen.
I'm also a writer, we share an editor, and for
years we've just been friends. And then the film Oppenheimer
came out, and while we thought it was a very
good movie, we both thought that it was a missed
(03:14):
opportunity to show what happened underneath the mushroom clouds after
the atomic bombs were dropped. And we organically just had
this conversation about the film and Victoria said, you know,
my grandfather was actually in Nagasaki forty five days after
the bomb dropped, and he was really impacted by this,
and I was like, what, Victoria, We've never even discussed
(03:36):
Japan before. I'm half Japanese, my dad was born in
Japan during the war, and I don't think we'd ever
talked about Japan. And all of a sudden, I was like,
you have this incredibly strong connection. So we started talking
about it, and I was like, let's do something. Let's
write an article about this, and that article became a
(03:57):
documentary one year later.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I think you're oversimplifying things a little bit because
I want to focus on that that one year later journey.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
There was a little bit of a journey.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I mean, Victoria, this is your first adventure into documentary filmmaking,
and from what I know, I mean, I'm just a
dumb radio host. But most documentaries don't go from concept
to release in one year. I mean, that seems like
light speed. And was I think I know the answer
to this, but what was the principal motivation behind getting
(04:29):
this out and done right away?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Well, it is light speed. We did not know until
very recently that most documentars averaged three to five years
to create and get them released. So thankfully, We didn't
know that because we thought, well, we can do this,
and so but we had the goal of having this
(04:53):
air by the eightieth anniversary of the bombs. We knew
there'd be a lot of attention around that anniversary, and
so we it really pushed us to get this done.
I mean, every from concept to fundraising that was you know,
a very difficult part, a very long part of the process.
To finding the veterans to interview in the film was
(05:16):
also a difficult task. And then also traveling around literally
around the world filming this, you know, different states, going
to Japan, production, post production, all of that, and you know,
we're really lucky. We worked with Blue Chalk Media, a
film company on this, and they were the ones who really,
(05:38):
you know, we're able to help us get this done
in a year with all of their experience and connections,
and we had an amazing director and team and who
really helped make this happen. So so thanks to them,
we were really able to like step into this new
film world that we had never been in before and
(05:58):
and yeah, and make this film.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I tell you, part of the reason I'm excited, Victoria
and you and I talked about this a little bit
before we went on the airs. The entire mission of
American Warrior Radio is to record and spread these important
stories because, particularly when you talk about the World War
Two generation, now the Korean generation to great extent, even
the Vietnam generation, we're losing these people rapidly and if
these stories aren't recorded, they are lost forever. So it's
(06:26):
important that we get this out there. And I'm curious,
Ben gets a dumb question every show. You know that, Victoria,
but but are you limited by your contract when we
talk about spreading this word as far and wide as possible?
And I know the innerwebs is very powerful, but are
you limited? I mean, can you eventually add it to
Netflix or Amazon Prime or how does that work logistically?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, that's our goal, honestly. So we worked with American
Public Television, who partners with PBS. We have a six
month contract with them. Hopefully we'll be able to extend
that and keep it on PBS longer. But our goal
is really to have this more widespread even than that,
especially for young audiences. We really want them to watch it.
(07:11):
So yeah, we're really hopeful that we can get this
on other platforms.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Also, Karen's there's two I'm sorry, Karen, were you going.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
To say something.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I was just going to say that I just came
back from Japan as well, and I have been working
to get it on Japanese TV also, so we're trying
to get this widespread in the US, but also to
get it on television in Japan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely, I mean that that would certainly support the underlying
mission of the entire documentary, right from showing both both perspectives.
I time when we come back, I like to talk
a little bit more about those two different perspectives. Really
you're talking about And Karen correct me if I get
this wrong in the pronunciation the Hiba Kusha, which is
the name given for the estimated six hundred and fifty
(07:56):
thousand victims surviving victims of the bombings, and then all
also we're going to talk about the atomic veterans, were
the soldiers who responded in the immediate aftermath of the bombings,
and real quick, before we take the break, Victoria, explain
to us who the atomic veterans are.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So the atomic veterans, that term refers to anyone who
was exposed to nuclear radiation, either in Japan in the
aftermath of the bomb or through nuclear testing. So it
applies to anyone really from the nineteen forties to the
nineteen sixties. In this film, we're just focusing on the
men who were in Japan. So that small group there
(08:36):
were sixty seven thousand total soldiers who qualified for that term.
Today they are fewer than ten still alive. So yeah,
we're really wanting to use this Atomic Echoes film as
a vehicle to tell their stories.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And so I guess that explains because I've seen different numbers.
I see two hundred thousand atomic veterans. I see sixty
seven thousand atomic veterans. So you're really for how many
actually went to Japan immediately after the bombs dropped. About
twenty eight thousand to the best of your knowledge.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Two hundred thousand is the ask to be a number
of people who passed through one of those cities before
the end of nineteen forty five. Sixty seven thousand were
assigned for at least a month or more to Nagasaki
and Hiroshima. Okay, So yeah, so we use sixty seven
thousand because they were the ones who were living there
(09:30):
for months.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Very good, ladies and gentle when we come back, we're
go and take a deeper dive into this story. We're
talking to Victoria Kelly and Karen Tanami, co producers of
a great documentary called Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World
War Two. You can currently find that on your local
PBS station or the app stick around.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
We will be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's
your host, Ben Bler Garcia. We're talking about a new
documentary that was just released called Atomic Echoes, Untold Stories
of World War Two, and it brings a very interesting,
well too, very interesting perspectives because the co producers of
Victoria Kelly and Karen Sanabi, their families, their ancestors fought
on opposite sides during the war, and now they've come
(10:35):
together to produce a documentary about the after effects of
those victims in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Any time we get
an opportunity interview a World War Two veteran, they go
right to the front of the queue. I mean, I've literally,
in the over a decade I've been doing this show,
I've literally had a situation where I had someone booked
and they passed away in the entrum before we could
(10:58):
actually get their story record. So finding those veterans is
difficult enough, but finding veterans who were exposed to extreme
radiation has got to be even more difficult. And Victoria,
I think you alluded there's to the best knowledge is
only ten of those survivors remaining.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
We're estimating ten or fewer. We spoke to eight in
the research for the film. We were able to feature three.
Two got very sick. We had our tickets booked, one
had a stroke, one got six so we had to
cancel those interviews. So finding them alone is hard, but
then finding someone who's healthy and able to do it
(11:36):
and also able to remember, and one changed his mind.
It was too traumatic for him to talk about it,
so he changed his mind. So yeah, it was it
was a hard We were really happy to have the
three amazing veterans in this film that we found.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Karen, I don't want to say your job was easier,
but you had a larger pool, if you will, to
draw upon, But perhaps or vivability rate was less, just
because they had the direct exposure to of course the
bombing itself, the fires and the aftermath, and then the radiation.
How did you go about finding those persons in Japan
to come on and agree to be interviewed for the documentary.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
There are more Japanese survivors, or as they're known in Japan, hibakusha,
but our biggest challenge was we very much wanted to
do this in English, so it was finding Japanese survivors
who spoke fluent English, and there are not many of those.
So I knew one Coco Kondo, who is a very
(12:37):
prominent hibakusha in Hiroshima and her father was a minister.
He actually met the pilot of the Enola Gay one
of the pilots of the anologay on TV, and she
has been involved in this for a long time, so
she was one of my first asks. But finding someone
in Nagasaki was harder, just because we wanted the English
(12:58):
to really connect to American audiences in a different way,
something that paired really well with the veterans to kind
of expand this story. So it was tough, but we
definitely have more people to choose from in Japan. That's true.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That brings up Ben's second dumb question of the show.
I'm not set a record here, but you know, if
you're looking at broadcast in Japan, then do you think
you'll need to dub it.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So we will definitely add subtitles to this in Japan.
I think everyone we've showed so far in Japan, they've
been so moved by the American veteran stories. That's what
they keep bringing up to us, just how powerful it
is to see these men talk about never again with
nuclear bombs. So we want to make sure their emotions,
(13:44):
their perspectives are really well understood in Japan. So definitely
we would add subtitles.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, and a question to both of you is start
with you, Victoria, because I experienced this sometimes as well.
There's a certain element of reopening old wounds when you
speak to any veteran and ask them to tell their
combat stories or to relive that trauma, and you'd mentioned
at least one veteran back down and said no, I
(14:10):
can't do it. Was that also a challenge on the
civilian side in Japan or I mean that's in general,
that's just when you do these kinds of interviews, that's
going to be an issue to keeping it on eye on.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I think it was a lot harder for the veterans
because they don't typically talk about this in public. It
really most of them had never really gone into depth
about it before to media in any way, just really
with their families here and there. But in Japan they're
a lot more used to talking about it because there's
(14:43):
a really big movement to preserve their stories and the
stories of the survivors, and they do a lot of
public speaking, so I think it become easier for them
in a lot of ways. There was definitely some trauma,
you know that our interview brought up for some of
the soldiers, which was difficult, and we had to kind
(15:04):
of balance that with the need to like get the
stories out there. And they understood that too, and that's
what they wanted, which is why they agreed to be on.
But yeah, it's hard to make them relive something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, and Karen, I tell you one of that coco
A what a gem she is, bless her heart, Oh
she is. And in watching the documentary, it seems pretty
clear to me clearly there's I don't want to sue
comfort levels not the right word, but clearly on the
Japanese side, the survivor side, there was a little more
openness to discussing this. And maybe that's the thing about
(15:36):
we want to make sure our story is told than
we never the world never ever does this again.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, So Coco's been a peace activist since she was
a child. I mean, in a way, she had no choice,
you know, her her father was a very prominent figure
in the peace movement, and so she's been doing this
her entire life. So she's very eloquent. She understands how
important her message is. But she was crying. You know,
(16:03):
I'm crying. Victoria's crying, and like you're like, she's been
doing this here entire life and she's still crying from this,
you know, and such genuine tears. More about how important
it is to pass on the message than crying over
her own trauma.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Just maybe think of something I found that I'll do
an interview with a combat veteran and you know, it's okay, great,
But then I see them do a podcast or something
where they're talking to a fellow combat veteran, not a
civilian like myself, and it's a whole different conversation. Don't
tell my syndicateor of this, but I think almost, you know,
a better conversation in many ways, because there's something about
(16:42):
been there, done that got the T shirt that tends
to open people up a little bit more and for
the two of you, What is your perspective. Do you
think the fact that you've got a personal family connection
to both of these bombings, do you think that that
sort of establaged you know, your bona fides going in.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh I think it made a giant difference, the fact
that we represent both sides. For the Japan side, there's
so many asks around the eightieth anniversary, right these Hibakusha,
these survivors are kind of being just flooded in these requests.
So to kind of say like, hey, we want to
do this in a different way, in a way that's
(17:21):
going to maybe open a few more minds in America
that's been done before. I think that was really important.
And on the US side, I know Victoria was able
to connect with so many veterans because of her family
story and the fact that she's just so likable.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Well, we come back, we'll catch on those family stories
a little bit more of Victoria. Because there's one item
that travels through the documentary, I'll put it that way,
and that's a battle flag. I call it a bottle flag.
Karen will have to give me the official name for it.
One of the quick questions on the logisticshoere we get
a little bit more into the story. And one of
(17:57):
the challenges here, Karen Victoria's you don't want to give
too much away. You want people to watch the documentary, right,
so we hope to inspire them to do that. It
is really well done. Guys and gentlemen. There's our host,
Ben Biler Garcia. We're talking with Victoria, Kelly and Karen Tanabi.
You can find out more of visit Atomic Echosfilm dot
com to learn more about this great documentary is broadcasting
(18:19):
now wherever you hear and whenever you hear this broadcast.
It's broadcasting now on PBS, and I think you kids
now use an app or something like that where you
can also, you know, find it on demand, so you
don't have to be like an old guy like me
and trying to you know, sit by the TV and
wait for the actual the app broadcast to come out,
so don't forget. You can find this podcast and over
six hundred others at American Warrior Radio dot com. We're
(18:40):
also on your favorite streaming platform, whatever that might be.
iHeart Pandora, Spotify. The important to spread these messages, so
please share them with your friends. We'll be right back.
(19:13):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is your host, Ben Bula Garcia. We're coming to you
from the Silencer Central Studios. Silencer Central as the largest
silencer dealer in the world. For a limited time, they'll
even pick up the costs of the tax stamp and
selected suppressors. That's a savings of two hundred dollars. Visit
Slencarcentral dot com to confirm if owning a silencer is
legal in your state, then select from their huge variety
(19:33):
of suppressors. They'll complete all the paperwork and ship right
to your front door, making silence simple since two thousand
and five. That Selentorcentral dot com. We're talking with Victoria
Kelly and Karen Tanabi. They are the co producers if
I got that right of a great documentary that's just
been released. You can find it on PBS. It's called
Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World War Two, and it
(19:55):
examines the after effects of those bombings from both perspectives,
from the Japanese perspective and the US perspective, interviewing actual
people who were there and experienced it. Karen, before we
took the break we're sort of teasing about this combat
flag that came into your family's possession, and during the
documentary kind of to some extent, follow the path of
(20:17):
this flag, tell us about your grandfather.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah, so one of the through lines of the film
is right before we started filming this, actually my aunt
found this flag. The Japanese called it good Luck flag,
and it had been in my grandmother's possessions and then
passed along to my aunt. My grandfather was a US
medic during World War Two and he was one of
(20:42):
the first American soldiers to go into Nagasaki after the
atomic bombs, and so we never knew about the existence
of this flag, and so we didn't know where he
got it from. A lot of the flags were taken
after battles off of jaf Any soldiers who had been killed.
It was kind of like a souvenir. Sometimes they would
(21:04):
be resold back in the US. It was just, I mean,
it was just the way, you know, all the soldiers
tried to get one. It was just kind of what
they did. And so we didn't really know where this
flag had come from. So part of the film shows
us on a journey to figure out who the family
is who owned the flat, who the person is who
(21:25):
own the flag, and try and find the family and
return it, which is a lot harder than you would
think in Japan because there's just not as much accessibility
of people's records publicly as there is in the US,
so it's a lot harder to find to find people
there than here.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So that's interesting because the flags were signed right by
family members and neighbors and other folks. You know, I'm
wishing that that soldier good luck. So yeah, you would
think it would be easier, but apparently it's not. It's
not like the US, where you know, a couple Google
search and you can find out what Ben had for
breakfast exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, so they were all they were all signed by friends, family.
Usually they always had the person's name somewhere. Some of
them had the hometown, some of them didn't. So we
were lucky this one did have the hometown. We knew
it came from Nagasaki, the Nagasaki area, and so we
(22:22):
were able to partner with the Museum Peace Museum in
Nagasaki and they helped us locate the family. I won't
give away too much. Yeah, but there is a little
old twist.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
At the end, I'd say a significant twist definitely, not
not a complete linear progression. But she had to watch
the documentary to get the answer to that. Victoria, your
your grandfather arrived there at the site within a I
mean literally a matter of days after the bombing, And
is if I understand this correctly. You know he came
(22:58):
back after the war, He struggle quite a bit, like
many veterans do, and he died awfully young. Do you
have an answer as to whether that had something to
do with the radiation poisoning?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So he arrived six weeks after the bombs, which was
the first wave of troops to come in. They had
sent a few scattered troops to kind of check things
out before that, but the main wave of troops came
in six weeks after, which was actually even earlier than Hiroshima.
They didn't come until about eight weeks after the bomb,
(23:35):
so they really were the first Americans to see the effects.
Six weeks. It was the peak of radiation sickness. About
at about six weeks, radiation sickness hits its height. So
he really came in and as a medic, I'm sure
saw a lot. So he came home had pretty severe PTSD,
(23:57):
which we now know but at the time was really
recognize started drinking and kind of drink all the way through.
He died at forty two from alcohol poisoning, So I'm
not sure would he have survived longer, would the radiation
have taken effect. I'm not really sure. You know, the
(24:18):
drinking really was what ended his life in the end.
But there were definitely memories that my mom had of
his PTS, you know, things that were really simple, like
couldn't be among crowds that today we know, like, oh,
well that we know what that is, but back then,
like they didn't really know what that was. You know.
The family had to move from New York City out
(24:40):
to We're all New Jersey to kind of get away
from the crowd. So yeah, so he definitely struggled a lot.
Was really never the same after that.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And the reason I want to bring that up is,
I don't know if you had planned this, Victorian, Karen,
but one of the second order effects that has come
about through your progression and making this documentary, one of
the veterans you interviewed, and I think it meek Us
ONSTUDT he still struggles and he tells you on camera,
(25:11):
and when he's talking about his challenges with the VA
and getting help and basically says, if I can't prove it,
I'm stuck. And as I understand that the rules where look,
if you want to make a claim under this, you
have to show us your radiation levels, which I mean,
you know what, seventy years later is going to be
kind of a challenge. So you've seen or encouraging or
(25:34):
helping to lead the charge to get some changes made.
And there's something I think it's called the Presume Act
that's that's helping out with these atomic atomic veterans.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Correct. Yeah, we're big advocates of the Presume Act. So
we've spoken at length with the National Association of Atomic
Veterans who's really behind all of the advocacy for that.
And the idea behind the Presume Act is that if
you have certain illnesses or cancers, that there is the
(26:04):
automatic presumption that those were caused by radiation if you
were involved in testing or in Japan, so and so.
Up until now, it's really always been you had to
somehow prove it, which is nearly impossible. Eighty six percent
of atomic veterans medical claims are rejected and so the
(26:27):
prazuom Act would be really life changing for those who
are still alive. You know, there's not just the World
War Two veterans, but there's veterans who are younger who
really need that care.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Also, now, Karen, your family connection, if I understand this correctly,
your father was a survivor. He was a child at
the time. Well, what really touched me? I want to
share this my father. We were missionaries and everywhere we
lived my father planted a tree. Wow, And there's an
aspect of the story on your side of the family
(26:58):
just jumped out of me when it comes trees. But
again they'll have to watch the documentary to get the
edse of that. But tell us about your personal connection.
We got just about a minute and a half for
the next break herein.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Yeah, So my father was not in Hiroshima, Nagasaki. He
was in Yokohama, which is near right near Toko, and
he survived the fire bombing of Yokohama, so he ran
into the water with his mother and luckily wasn't burned
from that. But my great great uncle was from Hiroshima
and he became the first president of Hiroshima University after
(27:31):
the war. Ended and really devoted his life to peace,
to greening that campus, and to rebuilding a city that
was almost just ash after the war.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Okay, and you know that's something else that jumped out
of me. We touched on a little bit earlier in
the show, but I did an interview recently about the
Mount fujifire, which, if you're not familiar with, that was
just a tragic incident where several marines were killed and
very many badly burned at the base of at a
camp at the base of Mount Fuji after a typhoon.
And anyway, long story, but they know we're talking nineteen
(28:07):
seventy nine, and the author remarked about how that we're
talking only thirty thirty five years after the end of
the war, but how helpful the local Japanese populace and
the military and the firefighters were about helping those Americans
out during that very challenging time. And there's certainly an
aspect of that as well. I believe in your documentary
(28:30):
and what we've read about, and I keep coming back
to Cokeland. I want to touch on her again. We
come back because that's a very at least that element
of the story is very touching. So, ladies and gentlemen,
there's your host, Ben Dela Garcia. We're talking with Victoria
Kelly and Karen Tanabi about their documentary. You can find
out more of his Atomic echoesfilm dot com. We'll be
right back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. There's your host,
(29:14):
Ben deler Garcia. We're talking with Victoria Kelly and Karen
Tanami about their documentary Atomic Echoes Untold Stories of World
War Two. It's out now. You can find it on
PBS or one of their apps. A very powerful documentary
that shows the after impacts of the bombings of Hiroshima
and Nagasaki from personal interviews with people who experienced it.
(29:37):
And you know, I touched before the break about how
attitudes has changed. I still find it, eighty years later,
pretty amazing, given the destructiveness of that war and the
amount of hate that was involved. Particularly I'm both in
the European and the Pacific theater. But eighty years later,
now Japan is one of our strongest to allies. And
(30:01):
I don't know if you got some insights to that
when you're in Japan, or I assume you would support that.
Did you intend that for that to come out in
the documentary. Maybe it was a better way to ask
a question.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I don't think it was like the first thing we
wanted to show, but it really did come across pretty
fast to us that that was part of this story.
And it's true. Japan and America are extremely close allies
now we have a great relationship and we have for decades.
I think part of what comes across the documentary is
(30:38):
just how exhausted people were on both sides from the
war and how human connections can just change everything. One
of our veterans, Larry Presley, he talked about being welcomed
into a Japanese home being fed an amazing meal, how
it would have been rude for him not to go,
(30:58):
and we were like, rude for you not to go.
This is like, you know, two months after our countries
were at war. It's it's incredible to hear so just
how quickly things changed for the US and Japan and
how much that was really based a lot on like
the way that people interacted with each other, and then
(31:19):
the respect that was shown after the war, and you know,
it really just showed the strength of human spirit and
the human relationship.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
And I will add to that Nagasaki has always been
a very Catholic city, which is pretty rare in Japan.
My grandfather was Italian Catholic, and I think when he
arrived he had no idea that I think most of
the Americans had no idea that they might have shared
that faith, you know, with their quote unquote enemies, and
(31:49):
so I think that was probably a big part of
their seeing each other's humanity, you know, when they when
they got when they both when they all finally met
each other during peacetime.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well, and that brings us back to nice transition there, Victoria.
That brings us back to Coco Kundo. Her father was
a Methodist minister who also survived. And when they're cleaning
up the rubble, there's an image in the documentary of
a cross in this church, and where they're cleaning up
the rubble, he found this long piece of wooden that
decided to make a cross out of it, and that's
(32:24):
still on display in the church. But I think another
powerful segment of that going back, Karen, you mentioned that
that Coco had a chance to meet one of the
one of the pilots that flew one of the bombers
that drops the bomb. You sit on TV. I want
to clarify that her father was on a TV game
show or a feature show and the pilot was there,
(32:45):
so she physically was in that pilot's presence, and at
ten years old, she forgave him.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, she talked to us at length about that she
actually didn't know where they were going. They were on
the plane to the US, and she still wasn't told
what they were doing, and maybe that was to keep
her emotions at bay before it happened. But she talked
to us about watching her father, a minister, meet this
(33:16):
man and how this pilot was crying. You know, he
was so impacted about what happened, and in that moment
when she saw him crying is when is when she
forgave him. So just that capacity to forgive and seeing
someone who was really the enemy and then seeing their
(33:38):
humanity was amazing to hear from her.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Karen around Victoria, I'm sorry, we've had you on the
show before, and we've had as I recall, that's been
a couple years now, but we had some pretty interesting conversations.
But one of the other missions, I would guess, so
this documentary is to make sure people understand how variable
these weapons are, and they've gotten even more so. I
(34:04):
don't know what the figure is. I mean, you know,
Nagasuking Heroshima probably about a third of what the power
effects of the current bombs are, and certainly in the
context of what we're seeing in the world today right now,
that's even more important. And Victoria, I saw you do
an interview where you emphasize, look, you can be against
nuclear war and still be a patriot. And I want
(34:24):
people to understand that that this movement nobody wants to
see nuclear war. In fact, I've been told that the
people hate war the most obviously that people have to
go fight it.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, And the veterans in the film are I mean,
they're very clear. They were really proud of their service.
They're proud to be Americans. I mean Larry, one of
our veterans, he puts the flag up outside his house
and takes it down every day. I mean it is
a huge part of his life still his identity as
a as a marine. And all three of them, you know,
(35:00):
read on one thing, which is, you know, we we
can never have this again. You know, we're we you know,
we don't talk in the film about was it right
or wrong? To have dropped it in that moment in history.
You know, there's all kinds of controversy around that, but
you know, the mission of the film is really to
show people, here's the reality behind nuclear weapons. Here's what's
(35:24):
still happening eighty years later to these people who are there.
You know, so let's really think beyond them as just
you know, a mushroom cloud and think about them as
as a weapon that can really, you know, have a
century plus lasting impact.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, I love Karen's phrase that you know, the people
under the mushroom cloud, because I know I've seen again
seen interviews where one of the challenges was it's it's
we see film and photos of the physical destruction of
these cities, but you know, not so much the the
after effects on the children, on the people who were
(36:02):
so badly burned, on the you know, the kids that
were developing leukemia. So I'm kind of one other thing
I want to emphasize because as this strikes me very well,
we talked about these these war souvenirs and the repatriating them.
And if folks go to your website, there is a
link to a website called Nagasakipiece dot JP JP of
course being a Japanese website. Is there anywhere else that
(36:27):
if our listeners out there listening to have family members
who passed away and they do have their hands on
some of these World War two use the quotation fingers souvenirs,
is there way one place or I guess I want
to encourage people to look into returning those and repatriating
those is a way of helping, you know, bring us
(36:47):
back to that, to that humanity that you both talked on.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, they can contact us through the website and we
can help them with that. There is an organization in
the US that helps return the flags we did, we
returned and ours through our networks within Japan. But yeah,
I mean we can definitely help with that through the
you know, through the website. The organization in the US
(37:11):
is called the Obah Society and they can go there
to look for more information.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Okay, and then just real quickly again, I also want
I encourage our listeners out there, if you have a
family member or you have been listening and you are
an atomic veteran, there is there's been a lot of
work moving forward. Now you there are there is now
an atomic Veterans commentatives Commemories Service medal that will recognize
you for your unique service out there. And I think
(37:38):
there's also initiative to building an Atomic Veterans War memorial
Karen and Victoria last question I mentioned we share a
common mission of recording these stories and communicate them so
that they're never forgotten. This is your first venture into
documentary filmmaking. Are you going to do another one?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
We would love to do another one with a little
bit more time. I think we will never do another
one within a calendar year again. But I think through
this we've realized that sort of maybe fate, a higher
power brought us together, that we happen to have this
incredible connection, and we certainly want to do more with it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Victoria, this film is so powerful as a medium, and
we both have really loved being a part of this
project and so we definitely want to stay involved in
the film industry and try and tell stories in that
way in the future.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Well, let me make a suggestion. If you get started
on the Space Force now, you'll probably have a little
bit of working time to ladies and gentlemen. You can
find out more visit Atomic echosfilm dot com. Victoria's website
is Victoria Hyphen, Kelly, Kelly Spilled, k E. L l I,
and Karen. Do you have a website or so please
share it with us.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
YEP, it's just my name, Ka r I T A
n Ape dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Ladies and gentlemen, please check out this documentary. It's very
powerful and there's a lot of messages that have come
out there and a lot of good, a lot of
good second and third order effects. And congratulations to you
both for returning us nationwide, well actually in two nations,
back to this conversation. I hope to see lots of
other great stuff coming out. Thanks you, Thank you both
for sharing your time with our listeners today.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Thank you so much, Ben, Thank you Ben.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Ladies and gentlemen. Until next time, all policies and procedures
are to remain in place. Take care.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
be found at Americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
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