Preventing Military Suicide - Lt. Col. Angela Stephens

During post partum depression, Lt. Col. Angelina Stephens began experiencing suicidal ideations. Despite potential risks to her career, she went very public with her story in order to help others.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Holloaies and gentlemen, you're tuned into American Warrior Radio. This
is your host, Ben Bueler Garcia American Warrior Radio broadcast
from the Silencer Central Studios. If you're thinking of getting
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(00:46):
is legal in your state. They will then complete the
paperwork and ship right to your front door, making silence simple.
Silencercentral dot Com. We're just coming to the end of
suicide Prevention Month here in the US. Thankfully, my family
has never been directly impact acted by a suicide. However,
I've had two friends, one of whom took her own
life and the other whose husband did so. I even
had a brush with suicide through this very radio show.

(01:09):
The act is particularly common scourge among the members of
our military. Recent data from the Department of Defense from
twenty twenty three showed that five hundred and twenty three
members died by suicide, and that year that's a rate
of about twenty five point six or one hundred thousand
of the total fours. I've always believed that because as
civilians were responsible for sending our men and women to war,

(01:29):
we must also be responsible for caring for them when
the consequences of those actions come to bear. It's an
uncomfortable topic, but one we can't avoid. Our guest today
is a highly sought after leadership and organizational change consultant
and advisor. She culminated her military career as an advisor
to the Department of the Air Force, top five senior
executives at the helm of a three hundred thousand member organization.

(01:50):
Her experience makes sure a highly respect to coach keynote
speaker for high performing teams and executives. But what brings
her to us today is her status as a steadfast advocate,
change agent, and champion of mental health. Angelina Stevens, Welcome
to American Warrior Radio.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
BOBYG.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me I'm really glad.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
To be here today with you and we call you Strike.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yes you may. I have nothing against the name, but
especially in the realms of suicide prevention and mental health,
that call signs has kind of carried forward and been,
you know, a nice neutral symbol that makes people have
comfortable having these conversations when you're in spaces where rank
and status and even names can sometimes be a barrier
to the conversation. So absolutely, let.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Me ask you this Strike because you're not a pilot,
you were a maintainer, and so how mostly you have
to be a pilot to get a call signed, don't you?
So how did strike come about? Or I mean, is
that a family friendly conversation we can have?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Is where you know, there's always layers to the call
sign conversations, But you're absolutely correct. I was an aircraft
maintainer for over two decades in the United States Air Force,
and it was later in my career actually that the
call sign was gifted to me. I was a part
of one of the many organizational experiments that over the
last several years that looked at joining forces in different

(03:08):
ways and changing our chains of command in the military
and in the Air Force. In particular where I was
working directly under and in the Fighter Squadron, and I
had been adjacent to and a part of this community
for nearly fifteen years. And at the end of that
year they kind of sprung the naming ceremony on me
at a TDY in Las Vegas at Nellis Air Force Base.

(03:29):
And again it was symbolic of a very special year
at a very special team. We had a tough year,
but them gifting me that call sign had to do
with we were in the Strike Eagle community and I
was the oldest tenured maintenance officer and longest tenured on
the Strike Eagle. They also said that they liked that
I would strike to attack problems, but they wanted to

(03:50):
go on strike from the meetings I made them have
to solve all the problems. So those are the family
friendly layers and the stories they told me.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I tell you strike you you come to us. By
part from Victory Strategy. Some of my favorite past American
Warrior radio guests are also a member of that team.
Scott and Kim Campbell or I call them the Distinguished
Couple because of their wars and General Robin Rand, who
I will say is one of the greatest leaders I've
had the pleasure to ever work with. Tell us more

(04:18):
about Victory Strategies.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, it's an absolute privilege to be on the team.
Victory Strategies is a team of individuals, some of whom
have a military background. But really the diversity of the
team is what to me is very special. We do
have military members, we have Olympic athletes, we have executives.
It is a team that values diversity of perspective and
growing and learning from each other and are very different backgrounds,

(04:43):
but finding this common threads and lenses on leadership. And
you know, we have speakers, we have coaches, we do
experiential workshops, but it's really about partnering with our clients
to build and grow leaders that you know, grow beyond
their comfort zones, face challenging situations and get better.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Because a bit now, I checked out your link in
page and your your tagline, if you will, is life
begins at the end of your comfort zone. Expound upon
that for our listeners.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think, and it's applicable I think in
life and leadership, in the conversation, and mental health and
suicide prevention. Really people sometimes look at acknowledging struggle and
the difficulties that are an inherent part of you know, life,
but especially leadership, and they look at that as a

(05:29):
softer you know, well, if we're struggling, we must not
be thriving, we must not be you know, out there
serving as the best version of ourselves. And truly the growth.
There's extensive research that talks about the fact that any
growth begins at the outside limits of our comfort zone,
and that pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zone, whether that

(05:50):
is in personal challenges, in life or as leaders is
the most critical element of you know, thriving as a
person and also growing as a leader. And I think,
I think those uncomfortable conversations and stepping into uncomfortable moments
isn't always the first thing that would come to mind
when people think about moving beyond their comfort zones. They
think of thrill seeking challenges and adventures. But really stepping

(06:14):
into some of these tougher conversations is the only way
we lift the burden of struggling alone, and it's the
only way we grow together through the kind of struggle
that we'll all face as leaders and as individuals in life.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, I tell you I'm so glad to have you
here because, I mean, Lord knows strike I could use
some free top level executive coaching. But that's not what
I want to talk about today. I want to talk
about something I'm very uncomfortable with. And I'm constantly struggling
to bring myself to a place where I can understand
suicide and I just can't get there. And our regular

(06:48):
listeners will know. Are you familiar with the story of
Mike Day?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
I know, And so we had him on the show,
by far the most downloaded podcast and a twelve years
I've been doing this program, and he wrote a book
and I reached out to him. I said, Hey, Mike,
would you like to come back on the show and
talk about your book? And he says, you know, BBG,
I'm just I'm just not in that place right now.
So he politely declined. Well, then he took his life
six months later. I struggled. I mean, clearly a physical

(07:18):
example of resilience when this guy was shot twenty six
times and you know, he cleared the bad guy house,
he walked himself to the evacuation helicopter, and I struggle
to say, how can someone that strong end up taking
their own lives. So I'd like to share with you. You
published an our or have you shared with our listeners.
You published an article in May of twenty five May
twenty one and the Air Force Medical Service blog I Guess,

(07:43):
and it was titled Running toward Fire, My journey through
mental illness. So Strike, I'd like to chat about that
here today because you're not only an expert in the field,
but also you had some some personal experience, and allow
me to just share some words from an early paragraph
in that article. You said, I've been an ambassador for
suicide prevention for over a decade. I've been on the

(08:05):
other end of the phone line as a support system.
I've been the shoulder to cry on at more funerals
than I'd like to count. I've been the last known conversation.
I was sprinted to my car to chase the ambulance
to the room where it happened. I've been on the
phone with the person who walked in as they discovered
the aftermath. I've been asked to describe every interaction and
memory leading up to the incident for parents and friends
looking for answers who gave their loved win to the

(08:28):
military and never got them back. I cared, deeply, answered
every call, listened, and became a fierce advocate prevention. I
could say the words suicidal and a hell of profound.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Meaning for me.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
I knew what it looked like on someone else, I
knew what it sounded like, but I couldn't understand why
I guests assumed, prayed, and reflected in question. For the
first thirteen years of my career, almost suicide was a
part of my Air Force journey. I never understood what
suicidal ideations felt like. You, unfortunately, strike found yourself. After
advising and helping and trying to save others, you found

(09:01):
yourself in that situation yourself. And when we come back,
I'd like to just share, Have you share your experience there,
and then maybe we can get some answers. And my
hope as is your strike, probably is that somewhere across
the country or even you know, on the American Forces networks,
some other members who hear these stories and here you
share your stories and experience, well, it will bring them

(09:23):
to seek out some help. So, if you don't mind,
when we come back from the break, I'd like to
introduce that part of your story to our listeners.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Ladies and gentlemen, if you're experiencing your crisis or having
some doubts or ideations, please check out the Veteran Crisis Line.
You dial nine eight eight and press one. You can
also visit Veterans Crisisline dot net to get some help.
Please share these important stories with the friends and listeners.
We've got over six hundred podcasts available at American Warrior
Radio dot com. We'll be right back. Welcome back to

(10:12):
American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben
Bueler Garcia. We're talking with Angelina Stevens. Call signs Strike.
How many years in the Air Force Strike? It's over
twenty twenty. Okay, that's a pretty good career. And you
were a maintainer. I got to tell you a quick
story before we get into because we're hosting an event
for a group of Para Risky Squadron that was about
to deploy and we're waiting for the place to open up.

(10:34):
I'm out there talking with the couple in the parking
lot and I asked him, I said, are you a
p James says, no, no, I'm just a maintainer. I said, boy,
you better not let your commander who you say, you're
just a maintainer, because without you, those aircraft don't fly,
So I.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Appreciate you picking them up off before. I will say
sometimes over the years, I've seen maintainers treated that way,
which kind of puts that in their heads and anything.
Anybody who's been close enough to it realizes that's far
from the stigma they need to be carrying.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Around aboute a strike. We talked about your i'd kind
of introduced teased for the break about your your personal experience.
Walk us through your personal introduction to this issue.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Yeah, and I really appreciate you sharing so much of
you know, those words remind me of those pieces of
my experience that I don't always don't always get the
privilege to talk about. And it feels little strange using
the word privilege when we're talking about suicide. But I
think being able to share those stories and experiences to
help normalize the conversation is what is going to change,

(11:32):
not just the stigma, but people's willingness to speak up
and speak out and really make a difference in this arena,
not just for veterans and military members, but for everybody
who's affected. My experience with suicide was long before I
shared my own story, long before I experienced durnew what
a suicidal ideation felt like, or at least what it
felt like to me, you know, in a very strange way,

(11:53):
suicide became a dominant theme to my military career. And
I know I'm not alone in that, because suicide and
suicidal ideation is something that's plagued our military services for
many decades. My first the first airman I lost to suicide,
was within a year of coming on active duty. His
name was Isaac Guest. I'm actually looking at on my

(12:16):
wall since that year. His parents gave me a copy
of an article he wrote when he was in high
school before he joined the Air Force, called What Price Freedom?
And I've had that on my desk behind my computer
where I could see it, you know, for well over
twenty years now. And I got to know Isaac better
after his passing through his family through trying to understand

(12:41):
his experience. I was, you know, his flight commander and
young lieutenant at the time, and you know, seeking to
understand it, but also seeking to help his family have
some closure in the process and getting to know his
parents very well. And you know, I didn't understand it,
and you try to justify it, you make assumptions, and
other people may assumptions about the circumstances in your life.

(13:02):
And that article is just this beacon of hope, and
it reflects as teenager at the time who had endless
hope for the future. And to have that in contrast
to how his life ended and his choice to take
his own life was something that I struggled with and
wanted to remember and keep close at hand for years.

(13:25):
The other suicides they encountered in my career, again, we're
very close to me and we're not just you know,
not to use the word just again, but you know,
these young people would say, well, he was just so
young and he didn't have the resilience, and that is
is a perspective that makes me angry now kind of
understanding it better. From the other side, there were older
people who had been in for decades and had families.

(13:46):
There were officers that were enlisted there. You know, suicide
does not discriminate, and all of those different experiences made
me fiercely passionate about the subject. But I still just
could not understand while someone could make that choice, which
is the wording I would have used earlier in my
experience I later ended up. I spent about a year

(14:09):
after I had my son suffering what I now know
to be, you know, severe anxiety and depression associated with postpartum.
I also suffered suicidal thoughts that I wasn't really truly
aware of what they were until years later when I
heard someone else share their story and describe their own experience.
And I also, for a long time chopped up my
own experience to postpartum stuff. And that was only a

(14:32):
very tiny sliver of truth because, as I discovered later
after finally getting help and doing the work, which took
me a long time, you know, the way we live
our lives and struggle behind all these layers of armor
and act like just because something happened and we got
past it, we're good, we're done, we've processed that thing
that happened is not true. And for me, the way

(14:53):
I was living my life, really defining resilience is just
getting through tough stuff and moving forward and acting tough
about it. It was not serving me well and really
led me to that point. I also realized that, you know,
a suicidal thought isn't the same for everybody. It's not
necessarily a rational thought. So I think everybody tries to

(15:13):
dissect and rationalize the choice and call it a choice,
and in my particular case, that headspace was not rational.
The way I worded it when I first found myself
able to say it out loud, was I believed that
the world would be better off without me, And that
was a belief. It wasn't a rational one. There was
no evidence to support that. You know, you looked around

(15:34):
my life and I had a wonderful husband, I had
my son, I had a job that I loved. I
had a sense of purpose. But something deep down made
me believe, you know, and lose hope in life itself.
And I've shared before it's probably the one part that'll
get me a little bit emotional. Really, the anxiety I

(15:54):
had around my son, who's you know, a newborn to
one year old, was what kept me alive because I
was so truly paranoid about keeping him safe that I
didn't go near substances. I didn't go near some of
the things that maybe could have made that slippery slope
a higher risk to me. I knew he needed me,
and that's what kept me alive. But I've also shared

(16:14):
that if if without him in play, I could see
the slippery slope that drinking or substances would be because
you lose that little bit of tether to reality and
associate it with that belief andout hopelessness. And again, it's
not rational. It's not somethinghere you can point at one
thing happened in somebody's life and they made this choice.
At least in my case, it's something that truly requires

(16:36):
help and requires unpacking, you know, whether it's layers of
trauma or again something like a postpartum where there's a
chemical variable in play beyond just life stuff. It reframed
that experience for me. And you know, I've heard people
say they don't like the word committed suicide, and I
truly don't either. You know, people lose their lives to

(16:57):
suicide in ways that are not an active choice and
not anational thought process. And I think reframing the way
we view it is truly critical to people feeling safe
to speak up and to not feeling judged for having
the kind of thoughts that are really hard to bring
yourself to say it out loud. And as I've discovered

(17:18):
more on my advocacy journey with professionals that know a
lot more about you know, the brain science of it
than I do. Some of these thoughts are very normal
parts of the human experience, especially if you've experienced trauma,
but they're still scary to say out loud. There's nothing
you can do to not make it hard to say
those things out loud. And you have to invite people

(17:38):
to do it and make it feel okay, and not
try to make them rationalize or explain something that they
don't truly understand, even especially while they're experiencing it.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, it's in your article towards and Strike you talk
about I want to get to this letter in the
program is you know what people can do to help
and to engage, and you talk about don't look at
this as a as a problem to be solved. You know,
you have to start from a point of understanding, at
least trying to understand, and making them put them in

(18:09):
a space where they feel comfortable talking about it and
bringing it out. And I just, I, like I said,
this is what frustrates me. Is a good word is
I've just I've never been that close to it, and
I don't understand. I don't know if I ever will
but of course, like everyone, I regret not seeing the signs.
If you will with some of those families that came

(18:32):
close to mind, and I'll tell you what strike list.
We need to take another break here and we come
back and like you to maybe start off by explaining
to folks or trying to share what you know. If
they're feeling this, then they need to get some help.
Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben de la Varsia.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
We're talking with.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Angeline to Strike Stevens about Debree.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
I'm comfortable subject, but an important subject, a veteran suicide.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Welcome back to We're American Warrior Radio Laser Gentlemen, this
is your host, Ben bler Garcia. We're coming to you
from the Silencer Central studio. Soundcer Central is the largest
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(19:34):
They'll complete all the paperwork and ship right to your
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Soundstrocentral dot com. We're speaking with Angelina Strike Stevens. She's
a twenty year career in the Air Force. Was a commander.
I think you at commander, you're retired the rank you
retired at.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Strike lieutenant colonel for the airfarts.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, okay, I'm sorry. I've got my navy folks. That's
all right in my mind. For some reason today it
was Mike Day that started that. But we're talking about Angeline,
about the discourge of veteran suicide. You know, based on
those numbers I shared at the top of the show,
it's it's not quite You often hear that at twenty
two a day, so apparently looking at the data, it's

(20:12):
not quite that bad. But one is too many, right,
I mean we agree on that, Let's talk about ideations
and what that what that feels like, what's that looks like?
Because some of the examples you used are, well, I'm
driving in my car, and what if there's what if
I'm in a head on collision, particularly where I'm from.
You know, driving is always an adventure, so the idea

(20:32):
of an accident is not that far fetched. But I
never associated that with a suicidal ideation, and how long
was it before you came to realize that some of
in your brain, some of those thoughts were not healthy.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
In my case, what I realized was it wasn't necessarily
the thoughts themselves, because it's fairly normal to catastrophize and have,
you know, these thoughts of something bad happening. It was
my relationship with the thoughts, and it was my feelings
around the thought and the way I've again a lot
of this is research and time spent with professionals that
understand the brain science far better than I did. But

(21:07):
in my case, it was instead of a thought like
that being like a terrifying or a jarring or an
uncomfortable thing, it was comforting. It was weirdly hopeful. And
that is such a strange word to use when you're
associating it with like your own traumatic death. And just
I mean I say that bluntly because I had to
hear someone else say it for me to kind of go,

(21:29):
oh wow, wait a minute, yeah, And I had this
association with someone else describing it for themselves and later
had it explained to me again, it's it's normal for
our brain to catastrophize and have potentially violent thoughts that
are just these jarring things. It's when they stop being
jarring and feeling negative that you really have cause to worry.

(21:50):
And the tricky thing about those types of thoughts in
that headspace is you may not notice them at the time,
and so having the network of people around you that
are going to notice differences in you, having common language
to kind of go, hey, you know, I'm feeling a
little different, I'm feeling a little off, or somebody asking
you questions that are intrusive enough to kind of help

(22:14):
you feel comfortable framing what's going on in your head.
The trickiest part of all this is I don't think
I could have recognized it while I was in that headspace.
People go, man, just speak up. I've heard people get angry,
go if they would have just said something. And that
sentiment's tricky because I don't think I had the self
awareness or the ability to engage in the outside world

(22:35):
because I was holding on a thing so tight everything.
I think I described it through a soda straw. I
wasn't the one that was going to pull me out
of that rabbit hole, and that, you know, opens up
a tougher conversation doesn't mean I didn't have moments where
I should have accepted help and where my own habit
patterns to push off and avoid allowing people to help me.
Those were probably the most damaging, you know, parts of

(22:57):
my psyche and how I operated in life, because I
was just used to shouldering burdens on my own and
pushing people away and acting like I'm good, Everything's fine.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
I tell you.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Strike coming back to that article, one of the real
AHAs for me was, and I'll read this quote when
you said, when you can consider your own death with
the same passing indifference as choosing what pair of shoes
to wear or watching a bird fly by, it becomes
easier to turn toward unhealthy coping mechanisms. For me, that
that's like, wow, okay, I kind of get it now.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, And I think that's where the assumption I made
for decades was that it's some sort of active choice
or decision. And that doesn't mean that's not the case
for some people, but there is some point where you know,
again it's not rational, so explaining it isn't the answer.
Looking back on it, when I had that association made
for me through watching someone else's story. What was incredibly

(23:53):
jarring and honestly quite devastating the moment was remembering how
I felt about those thoughts. It wasn't the thoughts themselves,
It was remembering the poll they had for me, you know,
which I've talked to many veterans. You've had a similar experience.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Let's talk about I think from when I hear strike
that the military has gotten better about this, about trying
to mitigate the stigma of seeking help. It took you,
I want to say, at least a year before you
sought out professional help. I'm curious was that even tougher
because you were an officer at the time.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
I think being an officer being a leader. I was
in a new workplace, which also made it harder, both
because of the stigma and also because I was surrounded
by people that might not notice differences in me when
me covering it all up, still looked like a fully
functioning human. If I had been in an environment where
people knew me better, maybe they would have noticed. But
I don't even know if that was the case. I

(24:48):
think leaders especially so I'll frame this more so after
I shared my story, after that article came out, and
I share this in speaking engagements frequently, I had thousands
of people share their stories to me in return. That
was the turning point for me, not my own story
and my own experience, but the stories that were shared

(25:09):
with me after that, when I realized how many leaders
or people in these high performing worlds believed that in
order to get help, they would have to step away
from either leading their people, they'd be less for their people,
or they had to kind of step away from and
sacrifice all of that and choose themselves or whatever else

(25:32):
was important to them. And I know, I know that
wasn't the case because I was in a command position
when I shared this story. I went on to, you know,
positions that I believed I might lose for sharing this story,
but I didn't and I was able to do very
meaningful work. But this deeply seated belief, especially from people
who maybe grew up in earlier generations like I did,

(25:53):
or saying anything about something like this was so far
like you just didn't you just suck it up, you
figure it out, and there was no example for what
that even looked like. And getting therapy would make you,
you know, even just therapy for I dealt with a
trauma and was in a traumatic career field. It's been
normalized in first responder caurer fields, but in my case,

(26:14):
some of those suicides I encountered in my career, I
was a first responder, but not in a technical career field.
Nobody talks about trauma or how to get help. It's
just not a thing. And usually you get pulled away
from your duties and you feel like you're failing your team,
and if you already feel like the world is better
off without you or like you aren't doing as well,
that signal sent to you of you're now not definitely

(26:37):
not good enough because now you're getting help, and that
makes you less useful to us, which is the way
it's sometimes framed or used to be. That you know
that truly reinforces that belief for some.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
So you sought help, and the way you put it
is they gave you an out that first time, and
then you, as I understand you, went back after the
birth of your second child and said, Okay, no, no
more outsis time we got to start having the hard conversation.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah. I mean, I think when I first shared my story,
I had folks on the public affairs media teams with
all the best of intentions. Somebody, way layers away from
our installation said, let's make sure that we're sharing success
stories so that people see what success looks like. And
I was terrified because my story was not a success story.
You know. I didn't get help, and then I acknowledged
it wrote that article. Still didn't really get help. I

(27:27):
didn't get help until a couple of years later. I
did know that the experiences with my daughter and my
son were different, but it wasn't actually until I went
back to the Pentagon and I was serving in the Pentagon,
which is also where I went through this year after
my son, and I started having panic attacks and didn't
know what they were when I went to places where
I had been in a worse headspace, and that association
for my brain was like a traumatic trigger. And I

(27:48):
mean it was coming out of COVID. I thought I
was getting rapid onset COVID. I would go up an
escalator near my old office and I'd get the sweats
and I just my heart would beat, and I go, God,
do I need to go get a COVID swab. No,
I was step being passed a space where my brain
associated it with the risk of experiencing those suicidal thoughts,
and I got help because I was afraid I was
going back down that rabbit hole and I wasn't. But

(28:10):
I think it's important to also say that once I
got help, which I put in air quotes that your
listeners can't see. Oh, that journey is hard because you know,
being in these pipelines that are oversaturated and getting bounced back.
It took me a long time to actually get the
help I needed, and a lot of stubbornness and accountability
to myself to stick with that process of getting help,

(28:31):
and I'm glad I did.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Angelina. When we come back, i'd like to talk more
about how that process of getting help, and particularly I
want to focus a little bit real quick on your
husband as well. Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben
Biler Garcia. We're talking with Angelina Strike Steven's about the
very difficult but important conversation of better in suicide.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's
your host, Ben Butler Garcia. If you're struggling, please check
out the Veteran Crisis Line. You dial nine to eight
eight from your cell phone, press one and you'll get
some help. You can also visit Veterans Crisisline dot net.
We're talking with Angelina Stevens call Science Strikes. She had
twenty years, much of it in a leadership capability in

(29:33):
the United States Air Force. We're talking about your personal
journey through suicide, our thoughts of suicide, and I'm just curious.
So your husband also was military, and so there's that
added burden of the separation. I mean, I think he
said that sometimes he felt like you saw him as
a ghost, not because of its physical you know, when

(29:54):
he had to go off somewhere for training or something
that was deployed, but just there were times when you
were so you had all that noise in your head,
he just from your eyes, he just wasn't present. And
that I guess, looking back on them, that couldn't be
further from through because you guys got through it together.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
We got through it. But that was during that year.
And actually that context from him came as I was
writing that article, which I didn't write it to share it.
I wrote it for he and I to try to
understand what was going on. I'm more comfortable behind the
keys of a keyboard in many cases than trying to
talk it out. And I asked him that question. I
asked him a few questions. I asked him what did

(30:35):
it look like? Because I had made a lot of
assumptions about what it looked like, and for me, it
didn't look the way people would have expected. And one
of the things I think that was even more jarring
than the emptiness that he saw, because that, I mean,
that tracks right. I was so internally managing what was
going on for me. That wasn't surprising. What was more
surprising that I had someone reached out to me and

(30:57):
maybe had a different experience and said, you know, yeah,
after having a baby, that's so hard, And I cried
all the time. I was so emotional. And I went hmm,
and I asked him, do you remember seeing what was
I like emotionally? Neither of us could remember me crying
once in the year after having my first child, which
anyone that's been around, anybody that's had a kid, that's
not normal. And I think, again, maybe you make assumptions

(31:23):
that that emotional dysregulation is what you'll see, and for
me it was quite the opposite. I was so stoic
that you would have just thought I was absent and
disconnected from everything, and in hindsight that makes sense. But
it didn't look the way anybody would have expected. And
I was pretty good at hiding things, and the people
closest to you, you fight harder to hide it from

(31:43):
them because you're sure it's going to hurt them if
they see it here it or are aware of it.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
So you spent four years running away from the fire,
from that which you feared was and then you know
your title was running towards a fire. When did you?
Was there a flashpoint where you made that decision or
you realize? And what I found interesting about your story
is to me strike so much of the healing came,
and looking back, I.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Think the flash points. I like the way you described
that there were multiple for me, and I never looked
back without it being prompted by a flashpoint. There wasn't
one that were multiple, And in the case of acknowledging
my experience and speaking out about it, it was seeing
someone else's story huge flash point when I shared it.

(32:29):
I told the story sometimes I stally got a tattoo
about the journey through the fire and coming out the
day that that story released, I turned my phone off
for about eight hours. When I turned it back on,
the messages I received and the people who were reaching
out to me, both known and not known to me,
sharing their own experiences that they had never shared or
never felt comfortable, was a huge flash point that helped
me realize the breadth and context was well beyond I

(32:51):
went through this thing, you know, that journey of leaders
and people going through that experience. And then when I
was in command and seeing the difficulty in getting help
and seeing how complex these problems were for people that
were maybe a little bit more willing to share the
depth of the experience with me. And then when I
went to DC, I was privileged to be a part

(33:12):
of some volunteer efforts where I was then connected with
advocates and people who had had these experiences or tried
to support people through them. When we connected with each other,
I think the key point here is when those of
us who'd either walk this journey or cared about it
in a way that we're trying to reshape the ecosystem.
It was those connections with others that became flashpoints to
me and allowed me to re examine my own experience

(33:34):
and reframe it in ways I never otherwise would. And
I think that's the key to all of this is
connecting to each other when we're not at our darkest point,
so that we feel able to when we are something else.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I pulled from your article, And by the way, I
just want to share that you may not look at
it this way, Strike, but I see that as just
a tremendously courageous move on your part. You know, whether
those risks existed or not. The fact that you, while
still were in the uniform and while still in command,
you came out and shared your story's way of helping others.

(34:08):
I just thank you for doing that. One of the
things you shared is just because someone seems disengaged, don't
assume they don't want you to ask them about it.
And one of my favorite quotes I steal from Ted Lasso,
you know, be curious, not judgmental. Explain to us you
put a picture in our heads for people out there
who might think that they've got a coworker or a

(34:30):
family member. So where do you start, I mean, where
does someone actually how does that sit down take place?

Speaker 3 (34:38):
I mean, I think and I know coach leaders in
context very different to this This is the same advice
I would give a leader trying to have any sort
of tough conversation, and it's prepare yourself for the conversation,
game plan it out a little bit in this type
of context, I tell people, and there are numerous programs
and nonprofits and things trying to help people engage these conversations.
It's what are the things I would say, if you know,

(35:00):
how could I authentically bluntly ask someone are they experiencing
suicidal thoughts? Or give them a context that isn't a
vague question. And I think that's what I usually share
when it comes to mental health and suicide. Questions like
are you okay? And how are you doing? You know
you're going to get a generic answer back questions like hey,
you know, are you having any sort of, you know,

(35:21):
tougher thoughts? Have you ever experienced suicidal thoughts? Or Hey,
I know this might seem weird, but I do a
lot of work in this area, and I know somebody
who struggled with this and they said, ask people bluntly.
So I'm gonna ask you bluntly, even if it's not
something you're comfortable with. Play around with the wording before
you're in this situation, and again it has to be specific.
And I share an example of someone who we kind

(35:41):
of knew that he was struggling on and off, and
you know, it was like, I can't ask how are
you today? So we had a scale of one to
ten and wherever we are, I knew which threshold was
suicidal for that individual, and I knew which ones were
I need you to get me some help. And we
kind of had that relative scale, and a relative scale
can help people. It's different for everyone, but you got

(36:04):
to be specific. You've got to be intrusive. You've got
to be there for them, and you've got to realize
that they may bounce back and be a little bit resistant,
but the fact that you asked is creating an opening
for them to come back to you later and make
it okay. Is hearing It can create some defense mechanisms
that are a bit messy. But your willingness to bring
something up to somebody isn't going to push them further

(36:24):
down a rabbit hole. It's going to invite them. It's
going to show them you're a safe person to bring
it up to you. When they are ready, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Strike, I may catch some heat for this, But as
a civilian, I feel that the best people to address
this has got to be you and your comrades. It's
got to be members of the military and veterans. I mean,
we civilians have a responsibility to support and the fund
or whatever that looks like. But I think that the responsibility, unfortunate,

(36:50):
is going to fall to folks like you who are
doing it. And I just I find it absolutely tragic
that and you also touch on this in your article.
You know, I fight cut an artery or was diagnosed
with cancer, I go get professional help to save my life.
It should be no different with mental health, you know,
if people should feel comfortable going and there's resources out there.

(37:11):
So just about two minutes left. What any other messages
you'd like to leave our listeners with and encouragement cautions you.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Know, the journey. You know, life is hard. Life is
struggle and experiencing whether it's suicidal thoughts or just depression, anxiety,
general life struggle is all of us in some context
or another. And whether you're somebody who's experienced these types
of things yourself or not, making it more normal to
talk about being okay if somebody doesn't want to share

(37:44):
it with you helping make sure they have an avenue
to share it with others, because quite often the people
closest to you in your circle may not be the
right ones because you want to do it the messy
way with somebody else. So having peers or people you
know who you can say, great, but go talk to
somebody else if it's not me, that's okay. Not placing
that guilt on yourself for others. And I think just

(38:07):
the willingness to have the ugly, messy conversations because there's
no perfect success story when it comes to mental health.
Getting help is hard, you know, Acknowledging what you've been
through is hard. Finding the right people to connect with
and help you is incredibly hard, but it's worth it.
Life is, you know, a beautiful and amazing thing, and
there's something brighter around the corner if you avoid those

(38:28):
struggles they build up in the background. If you're willing
to face them and acknowledge them and you know, go
through it the tough you know, through that tough path,
you're going to grow stronger through the process. It's not
going to be easy, but there's more people than you
realize out they're ready to walk through that process with you.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, Angelina Strikes Stevens, I appreciate you walking me through
this very uncomfortable conversation. And you know, this is something
we have to touch on on a regular basis through
our program. And it's just my hope and probably yours
that this message will reach someone out there. Ladies and gentlemen,
just reminder you're not alone. There is help out there.
Use the Veteran Crisis Line down nine to eight preus

(39:06):
one are. You can also visit Veteran's Crisisline dot net
or do reach out to someone and if you're on
the other side of that question, also reach out and
start that hard conversation because you might save a life. Strike.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with our
listeners today.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for
creating the space for this conversation. It means a lot.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
It's it's a privilege. Until next time, Ladies and gentlemen,
all policies and procedures are to remain in place. Take
care of yourselves.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
If you've been listening to American Warrior Radio, archived episodes
may be found at Americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite
podcast platform.