November 19, 2025 • 12 mins
In TOM CLANCY EXECUTIVE POWER, Kyle is the only survivor of an attack on his team. It was supposed to be a routine mission in a quiet African nation, but now he’s being held by the leader of a bloody coup.
His father, the President of the United States, is about to discover which is more important to him: the interests of his country or the life of his son?
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
His father, the President of the United States, is about to discover which is more important to him: the interests of his country or the life of his son?
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, if you're like me, you get a little tired
of searching for your favorite podcast on one of those
streaming outfits. You type something in and they say, oh,
did you mean this? No, the only place to go
is ero dot net A R r oe dot net.
All seventeen of my podcasts are waiting for you to
enjoy and to learn something. Thanks for supporting me throughout
the years, the two of you, I mean, I mean
(00:20):
a year has gone by, but you have got to
be feeling inside your own creative paths that there are
more women being connected to these storylines. Is because I
don't know, I just see this book. I see Tom
Clancy books in the hands of women. Is it the drama?
Is it inside the imagination? Is it the journey forward?
What is going on that? It just seems like there's
(00:41):
a big shift in readers right now when it comes
to Tom Clancy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Actually, I can't say that we've ever thought about it,
but my knee jerk or response to that would be well,
for one thing, we are focusing the last three Clancy
books on Katie Ryan, and it's fun and exciting to have.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
A female protagonist.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But honestly, we have an enormous female readership in our
Tier One series and our Sons of Vlor series, straight
up military thrillers, And I think it might be just because,
unlike a lot of thriller writers, we don't write plot
driven stories. We write very character driven stories, and so
character and relationship and those arcs, you know, pull through
(01:20):
our entire series of books. And I think that resonates
with all readers, but it makes it more open and
accessible maybe to some of our female readers.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
What do you think, Brian, I'm just making off on
the spot.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I know, I agree. I think we've been I think
we've been intentional about trying to look at the Ryans
as a family. Right, so the Ryan family business is
protecting America, and so it's not just about Jack and
Jack Junior. Now it's about the entire family. And so
you're getting to see some of those elements that were
(01:52):
in the earliest Clancy books where you got to see
that Jack Ryan as a family man, well, his family
has grown up. And I think I think that that definitely
appeals to the female readership to see that, Like Jeff said, Oh,
Katie Ryan, what is Katie Ryan up to? Now that
she's a young woman and she's an adult and professional
military And what's Sally up to? And what are what's
Kathy up to? And and what's Kyle up to? We
(02:14):
introduced Kyle in this book too, so you're definitely getting
a different perspective of the Ryans than you've seen in
probably thirty years.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, because one of the things that people are talking,
it's not just Jack Ryan Junior and Jack Ryan Senior
that we're talking about. They are bringing up the other
characters in the book, and it's almost like, Oh, there's
going to be spinoffs here. I can feel it in
the way that people are talking there's gonna be spinoffs here.
Do you feel it as writers?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Gosh, I don't know. I will say I saw a thread.
I don't know, Brian, I don't even know if you
saw this.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We haven't talked about it, but there was a thread
on our feed on Instagram about this book. Then we'll
turn it into an entire discussion to post that exact question,
and there's like readers going back and forth, Oh, I
think they should be a spinoff, and they could be
a Katy series and a Kyle series. And then other
people were like, yeah, but what would be the unifying
thing in the comp and so there is a discussion
(03:04):
in the in the Clancy Ryan Versus fan base about
exactly that we did not mean for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
We were just trying to keep it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, when we when we introduced Katie and Kyle,
who is almost more, we wanted to find that that
analogous character to the old Clancy books before he was president,
you know what I mean, when when he was the.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Fish out of water and he was, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Doing things he wasn't really equipped for because he was
a dog with a bone and he can't do that
as a president.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And so we were really.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Just trying to find a way to make them get
that vibe back from the old original books. But then
the characters have been something people have really latched onto.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So geez, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Maybe maybe there's a path forward for another spinoff series
of Katie and Kyle or.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Who knows, who knows what, But I know this, it
won't be our decision to make. It's going to be
something that that Tom Cogan will just that's for sure.
He's the gatekeeper of all things Ryan and Clancy. He's
an amazing editor and brilliant. His insight is very smart.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Please do not move. There's more with Brian Andrews and
Jeffrey Wilson coming up next, Tom Clancy's Executive Power. We're
back with the authors Brian Andrews and Jeffrey Wilson. I
can't be the only one who sits here and reads
about Jack Ryan the President and Jack Ryan Junior the
Son and sit here and try to compare it to
(04:30):
an everyday world because it opens up my eyes to
go into the headlines and look at things differently. I
mean that to me, that's how close you guys are
to the reality of the moment. But I have to
remind myself this is a story. This is a story,
but this is who I want to be a part
of my story.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I love that, And I think we are trying to
in some ways open a conversation on dialogue about you know,
what is leadership and what may oh good leaders And
so I think that you know, Jack Brian is a
boy scout. When you when you get the gig to
write Clancy, you know that you're writing a character who's
(05:08):
going to do the right thing no matter the circumstances.
And I think that we need to think about that.
You know, as a nation, you know, when you're in
a position of authority, when you're in a position of power,
you know there comes a certain duty, of certain responsibility
that you know you're going to have your own personal
needs are going to be at odds with the needs
(05:30):
of the nation. And so I think, you know, we
always try to imagine the best possible president when we're
thinking about Jack Ryan, and in this book in particular,
we really tried to dig into that issue of you know,
what would a president do if you had to choose
between the needs of the nation and the needs of
his family.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So one of the things that that that I do
take from your books is the fact that one of
the side hustles that I've got is I work at
a grocery store because I just like being with people.
I just like being with real honesty, got people. And
the other day there was this little we blow that
walks into into the store and I said, are you
Jack Ryan junior son? So therefore Jack Ryan has has
a grandson. Dude, I'll tell you what. He didn't understand
what I was talking about, but you should have seen
(06:12):
the smile on the father's face because that guy knew
exactly what I was talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's so that's so fun And you know, that's the
that it's funny that you say that, I don't know
if this is where you were going.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Or not, but that is a challenge right now at
this at this sort of crossroads for the for the
Ryan Verse and Clancy books in general, is capturing that
next generation, right, you know, the people that remember reading
Active or I'm not Active to find as a hunt
for the Red October for the first time. You know,
we're not all going to be here for all that
(06:46):
much long.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So for this for this.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
To really be a series that touches people, we've got
to start appealing to the next generation and.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
The generation behind them.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And and and that was honestly back to the you know,
introducing Katie and Kyle and these new characters. That was
part of it, like we need to reinvigorate a new
fan base into the series because we don't want to
see it go away, because.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
We love these books.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You guys are such masters at motive motivating the imagination
of your readers because you put us right in the
center of a question that we all have faced somewhere
along the way, and that is, except in this case
it would be what's more important the country or the
life of your son, what's more important your daughter or
something that's happening on the real streets of America. I mean,
you give us that leadership role of saying, face the question,
(07:32):
it is a mountain, move through it, figure out a solution.
That's what I pick up from your story.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yes, And I think that you know one of the
ways that we when we put these characters in these binds, right,
we force them and we force ourselves, the authors, to
think creatively about how can you get from a zero
sum game to a win win, right. I think we're
also fixated on this zero sum mentality, which is if.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I win, you lose.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
If you win, I lose. But with a little bit
of effort and some coordination and a little bit of collaboration,
sometimes you can come up with a solution that's.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A win win for everybody.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And I think that's sort of part of the American DNA.
And I think Jeff and I sometimes worry that, you know,
we're losing that with how competitive the world has gotten,
and we're trying to find a way back to that,
and so we present these situations in fiction because with
a little bit of forethought and effort, you can get
(08:31):
back to that mentality.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
One of the things that you guys do as writers,
especially with Kyle, and I think this is my attraction
to Kyle is the fact that I believe that we're
all survivors and that we all do face our major
league storms and battles. And my eyes on Kyle because
I want to know what he's going to do, and
because I mean, once again, I mean things are changing
so quickly in our reality that it's like, Okay, I'm
going to pick up this book and I'm going to
(08:53):
sit here and I'm going to figure out what the
plan is through other people's writing.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, I like that. And Kyle. You know, Kyle is
a fun character in this series because.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
You know, Jack is the president, but he's got this
rich history of action, and Jack Junior is a door
kicker and Katie is our analyst. To put a character
into this high stress environment where he needs to act
to survive is something that I think is appealing to
all readers or viewers of film. I mean, you look
at film and television and all the.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Things, it's always like can they do it?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And so we wanted in Kyle to have that every
man kind of thing where you can relate to and
that could be me right. In fact, we had a
great call yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
With Pete Turner on his show Break It Down.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And you know, Pete is a former Army intelligence officer
and he spent a lot of time deployed. He wasn't
a door kicker, but he's out there in the suck
and he thinks about these things like, you know, I'm
not a Navy seal, I'm not a Green Beret, but
I'm out there on the edge where something could happen.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
How would I act? How would I react?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
And so this character of Kyle was our opportunity to
explore not just how a John Dempsey from Tier one
reacts at someone who performs at the very highest level
of special operations, but how does an every man react
when they are confronted with real danger, real evil and
they need to survive.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And so that was really fun for us.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
You know, it's fun to write Chunk, it's fun to
write Dempsey, of course, John Clark, all these folks, but
to do something that everyone can relate to.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Is even more fun. I think, how can he survive
in this situation.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I really do have a posted note on the front
cover of this book that says first step of a
brand new beginning, and it has the date of this month,
because I want to see this book and I don't
want my gut to go because I come from the
radio industry where we predict hits, and it's one of
those where I heard this and I went, or I
saw this and I went, oh god, this is going
to be one of those books that's going to go
on to something and I was here before it unfolded.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Wow, that's great. That's a great compliment.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I hope you're right.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Where can people go to find out about this amazing
teamwork that you guys have got, because once again, we're
not a generation of collaborations, but you're proving guys, look again,
yes we are about collaborating.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, thanks so much for asking and pointing it out.
The best place for people to find out about Andrews
and Wilson is just Andrews dash Wilson dot com. That's
our website. It lists all our books. We write multiple series,
so yes, we're proud stewards of the Jack Ryan series
for Tom Clancy Estate, but we also write the Tier
one series, the Sons of Valor series in another series
(11:34):
called The Shepherds, And so we encourage all your listeners folks.
If you like the clancy work that we've done, then
please check out Sons of Valor or Tier one because
we think you'd like those two.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I love it. Please come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you too.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Hey, we appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It's so great to talk to you again, and you'll
definitely definitely be hearing from us again if you're open
to having us will come anytime.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely love, absolutely be really today.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Okay, you two, thanks riding so much
Hey, if you're like me, you get a little tired
of searching for your favorite podcast on one of those
streaming outfits. You type something in and they say, oh,
did you mean this? No, the only place to go
is ero dot net A R r oe dot net.
All seventeen of my podcasts are waiting for you to
enjoy and to learn something. Thanks for supporting me throughout
the years, the two of you, I mean, I mean
(00:20):
a year has gone by, but you have got to
be feeling inside your own creative paths that there are
more women being connected to these storylines. Is because I
don't know, I just see this book. I see Tom
Clancy books in the hands of women. Is it the drama?
Is it inside the imagination? Is it the journey forward?
What is going on that? It just seems like there's
(00:41):
a big shift in readers right now when it comes
to Tom Clancy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Actually, I can't say that we've ever thought about it,
but my knee jerk or response to that would be well,
for one thing, we are focusing the last three Clancy
books on Katie Ryan, and it's fun and exciting to have.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
A female protagonist.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But honestly, we have an enormous female readership in our
Tier One series and our Sons of Vlor series, straight
up military thrillers, And I think it might be just because,
unlike a lot of thriller writers, we don't write plot
driven stories. We write very character driven stories, and so
character and relationship and those arcs, you know, pull through
(01:20):
our entire series of books. And I think that resonates
with all readers, but it makes it more open and
accessible maybe to some of our female readers.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
What do you think, Brian, I'm just making off on
the spot.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I know, I agree. I think we've been I think
we've been intentional about trying to look at the Ryans
as a family. Right, so the Ryan family business is
protecting America, and so it's not just about Jack and
Jack Junior. Now it's about the entire family. And so
you're getting to see some of those elements that were
(01:52):
in the earliest Clancy books where you got to see
that Jack Ryan as a family man, well, his family
has grown up. And I think I think that that definitely
appeals to the female readership to see that, Like Jeff said, Oh,
Katie Ryan, what is Katie Ryan up to? Now that
she's a young woman and she's an adult and professional
military And what's Sally up to? And what are what's
Kathy up to? And and what's Kyle up to? We
(02:14):
introduced Kyle in this book too, so you're definitely getting
a different perspective of the Ryans than you've seen in
probably thirty years.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, because one of the things that people are talking,
it's not just Jack Ryan Junior and Jack Ryan Senior
that we're talking about. They are bringing up the other
characters in the book, and it's almost like, Oh, there's
going to be spinoffs here. I can feel it in
the way that people are talking there's gonna be spinoffs here.
Do you feel it as writers?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Gosh, I don't know. I will say I saw a thread.
I don't know, Brian, I don't even know if you
saw this.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We haven't talked about it, but there was a thread
on our feed on Instagram about this book. Then we'll
turn it into an entire discussion to post that exact question,
and there's like readers going back and forth, Oh, I
think they should be a spinoff, and they could be
a Katy series and a Kyle series. And then other
people were like, yeah, but what would be the unifying
thing in the comp and so there is a discussion
(03:04):
in the in the Clancy Ryan Versus fan base about
exactly that we did not mean for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
We were just trying to keep it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, when we when we introduced Katie and Kyle,
who is almost more, we wanted to find that that
analogous character to the old Clancy books before he was president,
you know what I mean, when when he was the.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Fish out of water and he was, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Doing things he wasn't really equipped for because he was
a dog with a bone and he can't do that
as a president.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And so we were really.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Just trying to find a way to make them get
that vibe back from the old original books. But then
the characters have been something people have really latched onto.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So geez, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Maybe maybe there's a path forward for another spinoff series
of Katie and Kyle or.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Who knows, who knows what, But I know this, it
won't be our decision to make. It's going to be
something that that Tom Cogan will just that's for sure.
He's the gatekeeper of all things Ryan and Clancy. He's
an amazing editor and brilliant. His insight is very smart.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Please do not move. There's more with Brian Andrews and
Jeffrey Wilson coming up next, Tom Clancy's Executive Power. We're
back with the authors Brian Andrews and Jeffrey Wilson. I
can't be the only one who sits here and reads
about Jack Ryan the President and Jack Ryan Junior the
Son and sit here and try to compare it to
(04:30):
an everyday world because it opens up my eyes to
go into the headlines and look at things differently. I
mean that to me, that's how close you guys are
to the reality of the moment. But I have to
remind myself this is a story. This is a story,
but this is who I want to be a part
of my story.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I love that, And I think we are trying to
in some ways open a conversation on dialogue about you know,
what is leadership and what may oh good leaders And
so I think that you know, Jack Brian is a
boy scout. When you when you get the gig to
write Clancy, you know that you're writing a character who's
(05:08):
going to do the right thing no matter the circumstances.
And I think that we need to think about that.
You know, as a nation, you know, when you're in
a position of authority, when you're in a position of power,
you know there comes a certain duty, of certain responsibility
that you know you're going to have your own personal
needs are going to be at odds with the needs
(05:30):
of the nation. And so I think, you know, we
always try to imagine the best possible president when we're
thinking about Jack Ryan, and in this book in particular,
we really tried to dig into that issue of you know,
what would a president do if you had to choose
between the needs of the nation and the needs of
his family.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So one of the things that that that I do
take from your books is the fact that one of
the side hustles that I've got is I work at
a grocery store because I just like being with people.
I just like being with real honesty, got people. And
the other day there was this little we blow that
walks into into the store and I said, are you
Jack Ryan junior son? So therefore Jack Ryan has has
a grandson. Dude, I'll tell you what. He didn't understand
what I was talking about, but you should have seen
(06:12):
the smile on the father's face because that guy knew
exactly what I was talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's so that's so fun And you know, that's the
that it's funny that you say that, I don't know
if this is where you were going.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Or not, but that is a challenge right now at
this at this sort of crossroads for the for the
Ryan Verse and Clancy books in general, is capturing that
next generation, right, you know, the people that remember reading
Active or I'm not Active to find as a hunt
for the Red October for the first time. You know,
we're not all going to be here for all that
(06:46):
much long.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So for this for this.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
To really be a series that touches people, we've got
to start appealing to the next generation and.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
The generation behind them.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And and and that was honestly back to the you know,
introducing Katie and Kyle and these new characters. That was
part of it, like we need to reinvigorate a new
fan base into the series because we don't want to
see it go away, because.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
We love these books.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You guys are such masters at motive motivating the imagination
of your readers because you put us right in the
center of a question that we all have faced somewhere
along the way, and that is, except in this case
it would be what's more important the country or the
life of your son, what's more important your daughter or
something that's happening on the real streets of America. I mean,
you give us that leadership role of saying, face the question,
(07:32):
it is a mountain, move through it, figure out a solution.
That's what I pick up from your story.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yes, And I think that you know one of the
ways that we when we put these characters in these binds, right,
we force them and we force ourselves, the authors, to
think creatively about how can you get from a zero
sum game to a win win, right. I think we're
also fixated on this zero sum mentality, which is if.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I win, you lose.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
If you win, I lose. But with a little bit
of effort and some coordination and a little bit of collaboration,
sometimes you can come up with a solution that's.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A win win for everybody.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And I think that's sort of part of the American DNA.
And I think Jeff and I sometimes worry that, you know,
we're losing that with how competitive the world has gotten,
and we're trying to find a way back to that,
and so we present these situations in fiction because with
a little bit of forethought and effort, you can get
(08:31):
back to that mentality.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
One of the things that you guys do as writers,
especially with Kyle, and I think this is my attraction
to Kyle is the fact that I believe that we're
all survivors and that we all do face our major
league storms and battles. And my eyes on Kyle because
I want to know what he's going to do, and
because I mean, once again, I mean things are changing
so quickly in our reality that it's like, Okay, I'm
going to pick up this book and I'm going to
(08:53):
sit here and I'm going to figure out what the
plan is through other people's writing.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, I like that. And Kyle. You know, Kyle is
a fun character in this series because.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
You know, Jack is the president, but he's got this
rich history of action, and Jack Junior is a door
kicker and Katie is our analyst. To put a character
into this high stress environment where he needs to act
to survive is something that I think is appealing to
all readers or viewers of film. I mean, you look
at film and television and all the.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Things, it's always like can they do it?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And so we wanted in Kyle to have that every
man kind of thing where you can relate to and
that could be me right. In fact, we had a
great call yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
With Pete Turner on his show Break It Down.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And you know, Pete is a former Army intelligence officer
and he spent a lot of time deployed. He wasn't
a door kicker, but he's out there in the suck
and he thinks about these things like, you know, I'm
not a Navy seal, I'm not a Green Beret, but
I'm out there on the edge where something could happen.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
How would I act? How would I react?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
And so this character of Kyle was our opportunity to
explore not just how a John Dempsey from Tier one
reacts at someone who performs at the very highest level
of special operations, but how does an every man react
when they are confronted with real danger, real evil and
they need to survive.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And so that was really fun for us.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
You know, it's fun to write Chunk, it's fun to
write Dempsey, of course, John Clark, all these folks, but
to do something that everyone can relate to.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Is even more fun. I think, how can he survive
in this situation.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I really do have a posted note on the front
cover of this book that says first step of a
brand new beginning, and it has the date of this month,
because I want to see this book and I don't
want my gut to go because I come from the
radio industry where we predict hits, and it's one of
those where I heard this and I went, or I
saw this and I went, oh god, this is going
to be one of those books that's going to go
on to something and I was here before it unfolded.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Wow, that's great. That's a great compliment.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I hope you're right.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Where can people go to find out about this amazing
teamwork that you guys have got, because once again, we're
not a generation of collaborations, but you're proving guys, look again,
yes we are about collaborating.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, thanks so much for asking and pointing it out.
The best place for people to find out about Andrews
and Wilson is just Andrews dash Wilson dot com. That's
our website. It lists all our books. We write multiple series,
so yes, we're proud stewards of the Jack Ryan series
for Tom Clancy Estate, but we also write the Tier
one series, the Sons of Valor series in another series
(11:34):
called The Shepherds, And so we encourage all your listeners folks.
If you like the clancy work that we've done, then
please check out Sons of Valor or Tier one because
we think you'd like those two.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I love it. Please come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you too.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Hey, we appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It's so great to talk to you again, and you'll
definitely definitely be hearing from us again if you're open
to having us will come anytime.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely love, absolutely be really today.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Okay, you two, thanks riding so much
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