April 27, 2025 • 18 mins
Pod Crashing episode 369 with Leah Rothman from the podcast The Real Killer Season 3. Uncover a gripping story of murder, deception, and justice in this investigative true crime podcast. In 1997 Kansas City, four teenagers go out for a night of fun-by morning, one is dead. Anastasia's tragic death sets off a chain of events that entangles her friends, family, and the justice system in a web of conflicting stories and haunting evidence. With exclusive access to never-before-heard recordings, forensic insights, and interviews with key players, each episode peels back another layer of this chilling case. Twists abound: a boyfriend's suicide, a controversial confession, and shocking evidence that could exonerate a man sentenced to life in prison-or reveal the real killer is still at large. The deeper we dig, the more questions arise: What really happened that night? Who can be trusted? And will justice ever be served? Prepare for a rollercoaster of emotions and revelations that will leave you questioning everything. Perfect for listeners who crave suspense, advertisers seeking engaged audiences, and creatives who want to capture the visual essence of intrigue and intensity. This podcast will keep you guessing until the very end. Episodes available here: Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-real-killer-90218427/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thanks for being a part of the conversation. Let's
do some podcrashing. Episode number three sixty nine is with
Leah Rothman from the podcast The Real Killer, season number three.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Absolutely excited to share a conversation with you because you
are taking journalism to a completely different level of play
here that is just so fascinating and inspiring.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you so much. That's a huge compliment. I really
appreciate that. Well.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It shows what kind of show prep you do, because
this is more than just sitting down and at a
computer and typing things out. I mean you had to
do the gruntwork to go get the sound bites to
make sure that there is a story here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, and you know, it started with getting the original
police interviews that have never been heard before. And once
I started listening to those, you know, police interviews with
friends and family of this young woman who has murdered
Anastasia whipplels Fugen, I was fascinated and I was like,
(00:56):
I need to learn more.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well see, And it's those sound bites and those stories
that pulled me into it because you're allowing me, as
the listener to go at their pace. It's not you're
not sitting there editing these things up or anything like that.
You're letting us hear it as it happened, right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think that's what we wanted to do this season,
was because we have these police interviews, which you know,
you don't always get. I was really fascinated to almost
go step by step with the original investigation before I
start my work of investigating the investigation. I was really
fascinated to see how, you know, the lead detective, Sergeant
(01:33):
Gary Kilgore, went from you know, one step to the
next step to the next step, whether it was you know,
who he was talking to, what he followed up on,
what he didn't follow up on.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
To be quite frank, I was gonna say, But what's
fascinating about this is, though, is that even though we
as listeners think that we've already we're already going to
solve this, we can't because there's going to be a
twist in the conversation and it's in the way that
people share their stories that all of a sudden you
get to go, oh, oh, now I'm getting a bigger
and better picture here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Right as the season unfold, like so much, I mean,
I'm still oh owing and I'm you know, and I'm
still working on it. It is, it is. I've never
worked on a case like this where at every turn
I think I know what happened, only for that to
be completely you know, blown out out of the water.
(02:25):
I mean, I I yeah, I mean I it keeps
me up at night. I cannot go about this case
and and why people say what they say when they
say it. It's and and there's so many inconsistencies, and
there's also so much like you know, as a very
small example, young Anastasia was found wearing a certain kind
(02:47):
of clothes, but somebody else at the dairy queen said
that she was wearing something very different? So does that
mean she went home that night? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And so?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And that's just the smallest example, right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, I mean the way that you set up the
entire story, you know, starting it off with talking with
the father, and then you break it down with the
two teams that were at the police department. I mean,
it's just, once again, it's all done in a step
by step basis. Does this play out in your head
and heart like a movie? I mean, because it's already
a story that's been written.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right and well and the ending is written, but not
really written right because it's according to some people, the
people who believe that the right person's in prison. But
you know, the writing is still happening. It does play
out like a movie, you know, a very sad movie
when when you think about what happened to Anastasia, but
(03:46):
it is, I mean, there is so much to this.
There are so many witnesses and alibis and you know,
details and forensics. There's just so much to this set.
It is it is. It is a movie.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So then when you go in to do the research
and you start putting this all together, what shocks you?
With all the stories that you've done in the past,
with your podcasting, there's still that element of shock that
gets inside of you.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think what shocks me most about this case is
that when the person who got convicted gets convicted, there
were two main things that prosecutors used against him at trial,
and I think and I think that at face value
(04:35):
they hold up right when the unraveling starts to happen
and the questions start to happen, I think what surprises
me the most is that a lot of this was
never considered and you know, it's the work of this
young man. Well, he's been in prison for over two
(04:58):
decades now. But the person convicted, his new attorneys, like,
have you know looked into this case, and have they
say blown the original you know, eyewitness testimony out of
the water that forensically it couldn't happen.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, because, I mean, the thing is is that that
that's one of the things that you're trying to prove
in this story is that the who, what, where, why, when,
and how theory? And it's like, Okay, if he did
do it, how give me proof that this was done
that way?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right? And to be clear, like, I'm not doing advocacy journalism.
I'm not here to say that this person is was
wrongfully convicted. I'm here to look at all of the evidence.
I'm here to look at everything, all sides of this,
and if things that I learned point to his guilt,
I'm going with it. You know. If things point to
his innocence, I'm going with that. You know, my only
(05:47):
allegiance is to the truth and and that's my job.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right How open are the people with you, I mean,
are you having to coax them or anything like that
to tell their side of the story or what? What
what gives here in this community because you you even
say it in the very beginning, this is a tiny
community and everybody knows everybody's business.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean I think I think a lot of
people on the convicted persons side were open to talking.
It was a little harder to get people on Anastasia side.
I do speak with two of her sisters who very
graciously agree to share memories of their sister with me,
(06:26):
and we have a really lovely conversation. I speak with
her father. You know, the main person in this case
outside of the convicted person, is the one who put
him there, right, and I am still we have a dialogue,
I guess you could say, going via email. And she
(06:48):
was first potentially open at talking with me, then said
no way is she going to talk with me. And
now since the episodes have started to come out, I'm
hearing from her and made after she listens to the
full season, she might be open to giving me an interview.
And that's the person I want to talk to the most.
(07:09):
Her voice is the most important, right, I mean, she's
the one who said she witnessed this murder, and it's
her testimony that put the convicted man in prison. So
I'm I'm very much hoping that we can that we
can speak.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
You know, what's really interesting about this is that I'm
one of the people that's up for federal jury and
it's one of those and I think maybe that's the
reason why I'm drawn to this this this story so
closely is because my number hasn't come up yet, but
I'm on the list. But the thing is is I
sait here and I listen to it. I go, this
is what every person who's going to serve in the
jury should practice with. They should go and listen to
a show like this and learn and hear what you're
(07:47):
going to hear and what you're not going to hear.
It's such a great learning tool as well.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Thank you. I mean, I really appreciate that. I also
really love serving on jurys. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but
when the summons comes in, I'm like, yes, I think
that we in life right should be looking at all
sides of a story before we make any decisions. And yeah,
(08:16):
I mean, these cases deserve objective reporting. And you know,
it's hard to not let emotions get involved, but I think, yeah,
I think weighing all the evidence and that's assuming that
you are getting all the evidence right. Sometimes journey don't
get all the evidence. But yeah, I think I think that. Uh.
(08:42):
I mean, I learned so much from starting serving on jury.
You know, it's it's it's a fascinating process to watch
how prosecutors and defense attorneys, you know, try their cases.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I would love to hear about how your listeners listen
to the podcast, because I only do it when I'm
in the car, because you've got my one hundred percent
undivided attention, and I want to be able to listen
to everything that's going on without having some sort of
distraction around the house.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I think so too, that's what I hear. I mean,
I don't let my husband listen to any of the
episodes until they come out, and so sometimes he when
they come out on Thursdays, he's like, I don't have
anywhere to go, but I have to go listen to
the podcast, so I'm going to go drive somewhere. So
I think most people do listen while driving because everything else,
(09:28):
I mean, I guess you should be focusing on the
road and not the podcast. But I think, you know,
we're so easily distracted everywhere else. So I do think
I think driving is where most people listen.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Now, what about your writing, I mean, are you doing
any writing beyond the podcasting, because I want people to
understand how well rounded you really are.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wow, that's a good question. Right now, I have just
been focused on the podcast, although a couple of people
have thrown out the idea of me writing a book
based on the first three seasons, So I am definitely
open to that. I mean, I'm always writing in terms
of like looking at new stories and seeing if there
(10:08):
are other cases, you know, that I could possibly share
with others. But I think in terms of other types
of writing, just thinking very early stages of thinking about
writing a book.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, because going back to all three of those stories,
and what I thought that just hit me was that
we get to hear them now through the podcast, we
get to hear everybody's authentic voice. But if they were
placed on a page, what would our inner voices be interpreting?
Would we have a different opinion of the story?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Right? I mean, that's that's a great point. And you know,
I also think that so these stories are very visual,
and you know, I started the Real Killer podcast Instagram
page because it's a documentary style podcast. I post photos
and documents and you know, port documents and investigative documents
(11:02):
and maps and stuff related to the case on that
Instagram page because as a listener, I mean, I don't
know how people don't go in Google cases while they're
waiting for episodes to come out. I mean, I try
not to do that when I'm listening to other podcasts,
but I also am like really wanting to know what
people look like and you know, if you know, what
(11:25):
evidence is there, like, so you know, I try to
share some of those documents that I talk about in
the podcast. So I think it's also visual. I think
that you know, these stories could also be told visually,
you know, whether it's you know, I don't know TV.
I don't know, do they even say more they say streaming?
What do they say these days? The kids? But yes,
(11:47):
I think so the Instagram page is really to help
tell the story visually because you know, obviously podcasts are
listened to and not watched.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, I'm glad you said visual because here's and here's
the reason why. It might be a selfish reason for it.
But when I was listening to the father tell the story,
I didn't hear emotion and I kept telling myself, why
am I not hearing tears? If I had lost my daughter,
I would be bawling my eyes out fifty years later.
And so I just I really felt like I needed
to see him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Well, it's very interesting that you bring him up. There
is going to be a very interesting episode that's about
him today. Episode seven comes out. Next week, episode eight
comes out, and that's the episode about Anastagia's father, and
(12:43):
I would love if we could talk.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, it's just something in the feeling that to me
is the emotion that you're putting inside this podcast, and
which to me is the attraction. Is that I'm sitting here,
You're giving me that opportunity to look at every one.
I get to hear everyone, and so and that's that's
very much heavy in my heart.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Well, you know what's also interesting is that so Anastasia's
father doesn't have a ton of emotion today, and Kelly
and Byron, the two friends who are with Anastasia and
justin that and I don't have a lot of emotion
while they're in their first police interview, or really in
any of their police interviews. And then I start thinking, like,
(13:26):
is that there to really point that out? Because you know,
we've heard so many times the way somebody acts during
a nine one one call, and if it's not with
enough emotion, are you know, people can be suspicious, you know,
do they have something to do with it? Because of
the way they acted on the nine one one call?
And I've had to check myself with that, you know.
(13:46):
I do point out the lack of emotion that Byron
and Kelly have in the first you know, in their
first interview with the lead detective. But it is you know,
who's to say how people react? You know, it's it
doesn't mean that because somebody doesn't react the way we
think they shouldn't react, that it means something more sinister
(14:07):
or nefarious.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, because when when they were in the police station,
I was really sitting there listening for did they practice this?
Did they did they work together? Are they going to
try to you know, share the same story? And it's
like it just it didn't sound rehearsed. But at the
same time, they didn't skip a beat.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Right, right, And I try to put myself in their shoes,
like how would I react? How would I react? How
would I react if my friend had just been murdered?
But again, that's not fair, right, So they didn't skip
a beat. They seemed that they really had the same story.
Did they have the same story because that's what they
(14:44):
actually witnessed and experienced, or did they have the same
story because that's what they rehearsed. And that's the question
that is going to keep coming up in all the episodes,
especially once you know, one of them comes forward to
point the thing at the other.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I thought it was very haunting the way that it
opens up at the cemetery and it's like, Wow, what
do do kids actually hang out at cemeteries?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know? These kids were like goth yeah, gothway, you know.
And Anastasia, you know, I think her family even talks
about it in their police interviews. She liked to go
to this Mount Washington Cemetery, which was the cemetery across
the street basically from where she was murdered. She liked
to go go there. There was this big, beautiful Nelson mausoleum.
(15:30):
She would sit there and write poetry. And I think,
you know, like in ninety seven, these kids didn't have
like a whole lot of money, they'd't have places to
go and hang out, and it was a peaceful place.
Other people I think wanted to make it more like
dark and like satanic, like and you know, the whole
you know, satanic panic goth thing. I don't. I didn't
(15:53):
get the impression from her friends that that was what
was going on in the cemetery.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. Yeah, once again, this is absolute an incredible story.
It's a very sad story, but the way that you're
putting it out here is an incredible journey and people
need to take it one episode at a time so
they can digest it because there's so much in each episode.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There's so much. There's so so much. I mean I
say it, I'm like, you might have to go back
and listen to the you know, an episode or the
episodes again. But everything that we bring up in the
early episodes is gonna the things are brought up multiple times,
so it's it's cumulative. You're going to end up by
the end of it knowing exactly where Truman roade and
the I four thirty five is what Anastasia was wearing,
(16:33):
where the dairy queen was like, all these small details
are going to come back multiple times and because we're
going to dissect all.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Of it, and kudos to iHeartRadio for one of the
things that I really cherish, and that is is that
you get to see the transcript and as you're reading it,
and I can go back there at any time. Just
did I hear that right? What's going on? And I'll
find it in the transcript and I'll get it right.
So I love the way that today that you guys
have built that relationship up to where you get the
sound as well as the transcript.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love that, and I think that's new. I mean,
I love that, and and you know, people in the
past have asked me for transcripts, and I love that.
Iheart's doing that now. It's so helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Where can people go to find out more about you
and give you some love?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh that's a good question. Valentine's Day is coming, Well,
it would be great if people went to the Real
Killer podcast on Instagram. I'm also on Instagram Leah Rothman.
I think that's my handle. And then we have I'm
sort of new to the TikTok world, and we have
(17:38):
at t r K podcast on TikTok. So I think
those are the places right now, and feel free to
DM me with questions. We are opening this up to
the audience for the first time. I can't remember if
I already said that. So, you know, if you've got
theories or questions, please reach out and and you know,
(17:58):
let me know because the last episode we're going to
incorporate the listeners questions and hopefully get more answers.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, you've got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I look forward
to that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Will you'd be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay you doo. Thank you so much.
Hey, thanks for being a part of the conversation. Let's
do some podcrashing. Episode number three sixty nine is with
Leah Rothman from the podcast The Real Killer, season number three.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Absolutely excited to share a conversation with you because you
are taking journalism to a completely different level of play
here that is just so fascinating and inspiring.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you so much. That's a huge compliment. I really
appreciate that. Well.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It shows what kind of show prep you do, because
this is more than just sitting down and at a
computer and typing things out. I mean you had to
do the gruntwork to go get the sound bites to
make sure that there is a story here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, and you know, it started with getting the original
police interviews that have never been heard before. And once
I started listening to those, you know, police interviews with
friends and family of this young woman who has murdered
Anastasia whipplels Fugen, I was fascinated and I was like,
(00:56):
I need to learn more.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well see, And it's those sound bites and those stories
that pulled me into it because you're allowing me, as
the listener to go at their pace. It's not you're
not sitting there editing these things up or anything like that.
You're letting us hear it as it happened, right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think that's what we wanted to do this season,
was because we have these police interviews, which you know,
you don't always get. I was really fascinated to almost
go step by step with the original investigation before I
start my work of investigating the investigation. I was really
fascinated to see how, you know, the lead detective, Sergeant
(01:33):
Gary Kilgore, went from you know, one step to the
next step to the next step, whether it was you know,
who he was talking to, what he followed up on,
what he didn't follow up on.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
To be quite frank, I was gonna say, But what's
fascinating about this is, though, is that even though we
as listeners think that we've already we're already going to
solve this, we can't because there's going to be a
twist in the conversation and it's in the way that
people share their stories that all of a sudden you
get to go, oh, oh, now I'm getting a bigger
and better picture here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Right as the season unfold, like so much, I mean,
I'm still oh owing and I'm you know, and I'm
still working on it. It is, it is. I've never
worked on a case like this where at every turn
I think I know what happened, only for that to
be completely you know, blown out out of the water.
(02:25):
I mean, I I yeah, I mean I it keeps
me up at night. I cannot go about this case
and and why people say what they say when they
say it. It's and and there's so many inconsistencies, and
there's also so much like you know, as a very
small example, young Anastasia was found wearing a certain kind
(02:47):
of clothes, but somebody else at the dairy queen said
that she was wearing something very different? So does that
mean she went home that night? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And so?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And that's just the smallest example, right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, I mean the way that you set up the
entire story, you know, starting it off with talking with
the father, and then you break it down with the
two teams that were at the police department. I mean,
it's just, once again, it's all done in a step
by step basis. Does this play out in your head
and heart like a movie? I mean, because it's already
a story that's been written.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right and well and the ending is written, but not
really written right because it's according to some people, the
people who believe that the right person's in prison. But
you know, the writing is still happening. It does play
out like a movie, you know, a very sad movie
when when you think about what happened to Anastasia, but
(03:46):
it is, I mean, there is so much to this.
There are so many witnesses and alibis and you know,
details and forensics. There's just so much to this set.
It is it is. It is a movie.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So then when you go in to do the research
and you start putting this all together, what shocks you?
With all the stories that you've done in the past,
with your podcasting, there's still that element of shock that
gets inside of you.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think what shocks me most about this case is
that when the person who got convicted gets convicted, there
were two main things that prosecutors used against him at trial,
and I think and I think that at face value
(04:35):
they hold up right when the unraveling starts to happen
and the questions start to happen, I think what surprises
me the most is that a lot of this was
never considered and you know, it's the work of this
young man. Well, he's been in prison for over two
(04:58):
decades now. But the person convicted, his new attorneys, like,
have you know looked into this case, and have they
say blown the original you know, eyewitness testimony out of
the water that forensically it couldn't happen.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, because, I mean, the thing is is that that
that's one of the things that you're trying to prove
in this story is that the who, what, where, why, when,
and how theory? And it's like, Okay, if he did
do it, how give me proof that this was done
that way?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right? And to be clear, like, I'm not doing advocacy journalism.
I'm not here to say that this person is was
wrongfully convicted. I'm here to look at all of the evidence.
I'm here to look at everything, all sides of this,
and if things that I learned point to his guilt,
I'm going with it. You know. If things point to
his innocence, I'm going with that. You know, my only
(05:47):
allegiance is to the truth and and that's my job.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right How open are the people with you, I mean,
are you having to coax them or anything like that
to tell their side of the story or what? What
what gives here in this community because you you even
say it in the very beginning, this is a tiny
community and everybody knows everybody's business.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean I think I think a lot of
people on the convicted persons side were open to talking.
It was a little harder to get people on Anastasia side.
I do speak with two of her sisters who very
graciously agree to share memories of their sister with me,
(06:26):
and we have a really lovely conversation. I speak with
her father. You know, the main person in this case
outside of the convicted person, is the one who put
him there, right, and I am still we have a dialogue,
I guess you could say, going via email. And she
(06:48):
was first potentially open at talking with me, then said
no way is she going to talk with me. And
now since the episodes have started to come out, I'm
hearing from her and made after she listens to the
full season, she might be open to giving me an interview.
And that's the person I want to talk to the most.
(07:09):
Her voice is the most important, right, I mean, she's
the one who said she witnessed this murder, and it's
her testimony that put the convicted man in prison. So
I'm I'm very much hoping that we can that we
can speak.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
You know, what's really interesting about this is that I'm
one of the people that's up for federal jury and
it's one of those and I think maybe that's the
reason why I'm drawn to this this this story so
closely is because my number hasn't come up yet, but
I'm on the list. But the thing is is I
sait here and I listen to it. I go, this
is what every person who's going to serve in the
jury should practice with. They should go and listen to
a show like this and learn and hear what you're
(07:47):
going to hear and what you're not going to hear.
It's such a great learning tool as well.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Thank you. I mean, I really appreciate that. I also
really love serving on jurys. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but
when the summons comes in, I'm like, yes, I think
that we in life right should be looking at all
sides of a story before we make any decisions. And yeah,
(08:16):
I mean, these cases deserve objective reporting. And you know,
it's hard to not let emotions get involved, but I think, yeah,
I think weighing all the evidence and that's assuming that
you are getting all the evidence right. Sometimes journey don't
get all the evidence. But yeah, I think I think that. Uh.
(08:42):
I mean, I learned so much from starting serving on jury.
You know, it's it's it's a fascinating process to watch
how prosecutors and defense attorneys, you know, try their cases.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I would love to hear about how your listeners listen
to the podcast, because I only do it when I'm
in the car, because you've got my one hundred percent
undivided attention, and I want to be able to listen
to everything that's going on without having some sort of
distraction around the house.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I think so too, that's what I hear. I mean,
I don't let my husband listen to any of the
episodes until they come out, and so sometimes he when
they come out on Thursdays, he's like, I don't have
anywhere to go, but I have to go listen to
the podcast, so I'm going to go drive somewhere. So
I think most people do listen while driving because everything else,
(09:28):
I mean, I guess you should be focusing on the
road and not the podcast. But I think, you know,
we're so easily distracted everywhere else. So I do think
I think driving is where most people listen.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Now, what about your writing, I mean, are you doing
any writing beyond the podcasting, because I want people to
understand how well rounded you really are.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wow, that's a good question. Right now, I have just
been focused on the podcast, although a couple of people
have thrown out the idea of me writing a book
based on the first three seasons, So I am definitely
open to that. I mean, I'm always writing in terms
of like looking at new stories and seeing if there
(10:08):
are other cases, you know, that I could possibly share
with others. But I think in terms of other types
of writing, just thinking very early stages of thinking about
writing a book.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, because going back to all three of those stories,
and what I thought that just hit me was that
we get to hear them now through the podcast, we
get to hear everybody's authentic voice. But if they were
placed on a page, what would our inner voices be interpreting?
Would we have a different opinion of the story?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Right? I mean, that's that's a great point. And you know,
I also think that so these stories are very visual,
and you know, I started the Real Killer podcast Instagram
page because it's a documentary style podcast. I post photos
and documents and you know, port documents and investigative documents
(11:02):
and maps and stuff related to the case on that
Instagram page because as a listener, I mean, I don't
know how people don't go in Google cases while they're
waiting for episodes to come out. I mean, I try
not to do that when I'm listening to other podcasts,
but I also am like really wanting to know what
people look like and you know, if you know, what
(11:25):
evidence is there, like, so you know, I try to
share some of those documents that I talk about in
the podcast. So I think it's also visual. I think
that you know, these stories could also be told visually,
you know, whether it's you know, I don't know TV.
I don't know, do they even say more they say streaming?
What do they say these days? The kids? But yes,
(11:47):
I think so the Instagram page is really to help
tell the story visually because you know, obviously podcasts are
listened to and not watched.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, I'm glad you said visual because here's and here's
the reason why. It might be a selfish reason for it.
But when I was listening to the father tell the story,
I didn't hear emotion and I kept telling myself, why
am I not hearing tears? If I had lost my daughter,
I would be bawling my eyes out fifty years later.
And so I just I really felt like I needed
to see him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Well, it's very interesting that you bring him up. There
is going to be a very interesting episode that's about
him today. Episode seven comes out. Next week, episode eight
comes out, and that's the episode about Anastagia's father, and
(12:43):
I would love if we could talk.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, it's just something in the feeling that to me
is the emotion that you're putting inside this podcast, and
which to me is the attraction. Is that I'm sitting here,
You're giving me that opportunity to look at every one.
I get to hear everyone, and so and that's that's
very much heavy in my heart.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Well, you know what's also interesting is that so Anastasia's
father doesn't have a ton of emotion today, and Kelly
and Byron, the two friends who are with Anastasia and
justin that and I don't have a lot of emotion
while they're in their first police interview, or really in
any of their police interviews. And then I start thinking, like,
(13:26):
is that there to really point that out? Because you know,
we've heard so many times the way somebody acts during
a nine one one call, and if it's not with
enough emotion, are you know, people can be suspicious, you know,
do they have something to do with it? Because of
the way they acted on the nine one one call?
And I've had to check myself with that, you know.
(13:46):
I do point out the lack of emotion that Byron
and Kelly have in the first you know, in their
first interview with the lead detective. But it is you know,
who's to say how people react? You know, it's it
doesn't mean that because somebody doesn't react the way we
think they shouldn't react, that it means something more sinister
(14:07):
or nefarious.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, because when when they were in the police station,
I was really sitting there listening for did they practice this?
Did they did they work together? Are they going to
try to you know, share the same story? And it's
like it just it didn't sound rehearsed. But at the
same time, they didn't skip a beat.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Right, right, And I try to put myself in their shoes,
like how would I react? How would I react? How
would I react if my friend had just been murdered?
But again, that's not fair, right, So they didn't skip
a beat. They seemed that they really had the same story.
Did they have the same story because that's what they
(14:44):
actually witnessed and experienced, or did they have the same
story because that's what they rehearsed. And that's the question
that is going to keep coming up in all the episodes,
especially once you know, one of them comes forward to
point the thing at the other.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I thought it was very haunting the way that it
opens up at the cemetery and it's like, Wow, what
do do kids actually hang out at cemeteries?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know? These kids were like goth yeah, gothway, you know.
And Anastasia, you know, I think her family even talks
about it in their police interviews. She liked to go
to this Mount Washington Cemetery, which was the cemetery across
the street basically from where she was murdered. She liked
to go go there. There was this big, beautiful Nelson mausoleum.
(15:30):
She would sit there and write poetry. And I think,
you know, like in ninety seven, these kids didn't have
like a whole lot of money, they'd't have places to
go and hang out, and it was a peaceful place.
Other people I think wanted to make it more like
dark and like satanic, like and you know, the whole
you know, satanic panic goth thing. I don't. I didn't
(15:53):
get the impression from her friends that that was what
was going on in the cemetery.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. Yeah, once again, this is absolute an incredible story.
It's a very sad story, but the way that you're
putting it out here is an incredible journey and people
need to take it one episode at a time so
they can digest it because there's so much in each episode.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There's so much. There's so so much. I mean I
say it, I'm like, you might have to go back
and listen to the you know, an episode or the
episodes again. But everything that we bring up in the
early episodes is gonna the things are brought up multiple times,
so it's it's cumulative. You're going to end up by
the end of it knowing exactly where Truman roade and
the I four thirty five is what Anastasia was wearing,
(16:33):
where the dairy queen was like, all these small details
are going to come back multiple times and because we're
going to dissect all.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Of it, and kudos to iHeartRadio for one of the
things that I really cherish, and that is is that
you get to see the transcript and as you're reading it,
and I can go back there at any time. Just
did I hear that right? What's going on? And I'll
find it in the transcript and I'll get it right.
So I love the way that today that you guys
have built that relationship up to where you get the
sound as well as the transcript.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love that, and I think that's new. I mean,
I love that, and and you know, people in the
past have asked me for transcripts, and I love that.
Iheart's doing that now. It's so helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Where can people go to find out more about you
and give you some love?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh that's a good question. Valentine's Day is coming, Well,
it would be great if people went to the Real
Killer podcast on Instagram. I'm also on Instagram Leah Rothman.
I think that's my handle. And then we have I'm
sort of new to the TikTok world, and we have
(17:38):
at t r K podcast on TikTok. So I think
those are the places right now, and feel free to
DM me with questions. We are opening this up to
the audience for the first time. I can't remember if
I already said that. So, you know, if you've got
theories or questions, please reach out and and you know,
(17:58):
let me know because the last episode we're going to
incorporate the listeners questions and hopefully get more answers.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, you've got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I look forward
to that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Will you'd be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay you doo. Thank you so much.
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