November 26, 2025 • 46 mins
In this inspiring episode, Bob Wheeler—CPA, comedian, and creator of The Money Nerve—shares how cultivating gratitude can transform your relationship with money. With his signature blend of humor, honesty, and heart, Bob unpacks how emotions shape financial choices and how gratitude can ground us through life’s financial ups and downs. Discover how being thankful isn’t just good for the soul—it’s a powerful tool for building financial peace and purpose.
Ask Good Questions is broadcast live Wednesdays at 6PM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Ask Good Questions is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Ask Good Questions Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/ask-good-questions--6441735/support.
Ask Good Questions is broadcast live Wednesdays at 6PM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Ask Good Questions is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Ask Good Questions Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/ask-good-questions--6441735/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY
Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to to Ask Good Questions Podcasts, broadcasting live every Wednesday,
six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at
w four cy dot com. This week and every week,
we will reach for a higher purpose in money and life,
as well as a focus on health and wellness. Now,
(00:49):
let's join your host, Anita Bell Anderson, as together we
start with Asking Good Questions.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, Hello, and welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Ask Good
Questions Podcast. I'm so happy that you're here today with us.
We have got a fantastic show. We're going to talk
about something really important. It has to do with the
power of gratitude and money and health and wellness and
it's going to all kind of roll together. So I
(01:23):
have a fabulous guest with me today. I'd like to
invite him now to the podcast stage.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Hey, Benita, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Good? Good? Not seeing your picture yet, but ah there
you are?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Who time difference?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah, Hey, this is Bob Wheeler, and I'm gonna give
you a little bit of background on Bob. His mission
is to empower individuals and communities to transform their relationship
with my What a great idea, breaking free from the
(02:04):
fears of you know, shame and confusion that so often
hold people back. He is a CPA, he's an author,
he's a comedian, and he's a somantic therapist. I'm not
sure if I know what a somantic therapist. Maybe you
can tell us a little bit. He brings a wealth
(02:25):
of experience to the table. He offers a unique perspective.
I don't think I've had well, I think I've had
one other communic comedian. But we're hopefully this is going
to be an engaging discussion today. He really wants to
rewrite people's stories around money and by addressing both the
(02:45):
practical and the emotional aspects of money management. He feels
like you can cultivate, cultivate a more balanced, fulfilling relationship
with our finances and ultimately with ourselves. So, Bob, since
I have a comedian with me today, are you ready
(03:06):
for a gratitude joke?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I'm ready lay it on us.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, now, as I told you, I'm in Hawaii actually
for another six months with my husband. We're on a
service mission for our church. So I'm coming at you
from Hawaii, out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean
with twenty five hundred miles of ocean around us, and
(03:31):
it's between seventy five and eighty five every day. So
this Thanksgiving in Hawaii, I am extra grateful because nothing
says abundant blessings like turkey gratitude and not having to
shovel snow.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That sounds like a winner every time. I'm not sure
if the turkeys as happy as we are.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
No, I'm not sure either, but appreciate you. But I've
heard that the turkey that gets pardonered by the president
every year, I guess there is some place where they go. Ah,
that's good, Yeah, sanctuary turkey shank really right, So is
(04:16):
there anything that she'd like to add to that introduction?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Well, let's see, I'm also the CFO at the world
famous Comedy Store. I've been there for twenty eight years,
and I think the experiences of the Comedy Store, of
being a CPA, being a comedian, somatic therapist, body based therapy.
We feel things, we hold on to things, so we
don't just talk about it. How do I feel about
(04:42):
that and where do I feel it in my body?
And so those things have all come together to really
help me come up with tools and conversations to have
with people about having a different outcome changing our story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Awesome. Well, well, I really love how you how you
connect or how do you know how you can connect
gratitude and money. So those are two things that people
don't often link together. So what first inspired you to
connect those two things?
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well, you know, it's funny, Uh, many of us are
socialized right to make lots of money, be super successful,
make money, make money. We're not socialized to stop a
moment and say, wow, I'm really grateful that I'm making
lots of money or that I'm having lots of success
because I got to get to the next thing. I
(05:37):
got to keep going, and I was socialized. I am
my immediate accomplishments. I am my bank account, and so
I got to keep these things growing and going. And
it wasn't until a bit later on, and uh, when
I was in Africa where people weren't so obsessed about
(05:58):
success and more money and all those accolades, I thought,
why are these people so happy? What's wrong with them?
Don't they know? And so what happened was for me
it was a course correction because I was sure I
was right. I was sure that it was all about
having more and not pausing to say, is this enough?
(06:21):
Am I grateful? Am I appreciating it? Am I actually
stopping to enjoy the fruits of my labor? Because often
we're so busy creating them we don't actually take them
moment say oh wow, yeah hard. So that's really where
it started coming in for me to realize I hadn't
(06:43):
been that grateful. I appreciated things, and it was important
to be of service, but I hadn't really stopped to
take a look around and say, wow, I'm really grateful
to be right where I am and having the ability
to get somewhere else. That's where I want to be
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, I think I told you that I'm a scuba diver.
And there was one time when I was in Fiji
and I got to talk to a Fijian chief chieftain
guy on an island and they lived with next to nothing,
and I got that that perspective that they had everything
(07:23):
they needed and they were happy and they're living in
a hut and there wasn't anything else they needed. So
you have some stories around Africa and Nepal, so I
would love to weave those in here at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, absolutely, so. Really, Africa was the first awakening I
everybody around me. I was in Tanzania average income at
the time, one hundred dollars a year per person, no shoes,
using broken pots and pans to cook their food, asking
(08:01):
if they could have the trash I was throwing out
so they could use the containers and recycle things, and
they were all just so happy. And at a certain point,
I think I almost got annoyed. I'm like, why are
you people so happy? Don't you understand what's wrong with you?
(08:22):
And they just kept beaming with happiness, with gratitude, appreciation,
joy and celebration, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm
too busy trying to make lots of money and show
everybody how amazing my life is to actually stop and
celebrate and have joy. And it really messed with my
mind because I was doing all the great things. I
(08:44):
had my fancy car, and I was doing all the marks,
and I hadn't really stopped and said wow, like here
I am, and most of us don't take them to
just say thank goodness. I woke up this morning, Thank
(09:05):
you Lord for letting me breathe this morning because some
people didn't wake up this morning. Thank you for me
being able to get out of bed. And even if
I'm feeling to make some pains, I know I have
a body and those little things. And so it once
I started just seeing how and I've been to Africa,
to different countries, almost everywhere I go gratitude, happiness, appreciation,
(09:29):
wanting to make sure that my experiences are you know
that I can go back and tell everybody how amazing
it was. That it was just in the energy, and
it was a beautiful lesson for me because it really
shifted my entire focus, taking it out of myself, and
even though I had always been about service in church
(09:50):
and different things, actually just saying wait a minute, it
is all bigger than me, and I'm grateful to get
to be a part of it and grateful for how
I can show up and be of service.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Right, awesome, same thing in Nepal? Were you tricking in Nepal?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So I did a couple of treks to base camp
Mount Everest, and the second time around, I took friends
and family and everybody was super excited. I was sort
of the leader of the pack because I had been before.
And the very first day is a really hard day
because you get into the National Park and you have
to go down a bunch of steep rocks and inclines
(10:33):
and declines and all this stuff. And halfway down that
first day, everybody said, oh wow, this is really hard.
Let's just go back to Catman Do and go shopping
and get massages and like, let's not do this fike.
And of course, being a money person, I'm like, I
just spent ten thousand dollars. I'm going to get my
money's worth for the next three four weeks. And in
(10:57):
that moment, and I know other people have mentioned this,
it was not on my radar, I just thought, Okay,
what can I do. Let's negotiate and hike for an
hour and then decide if we're going to keep hiking.
And so what we did was we just took it
in baby steps, because what I have found in my
life and with my clients, most of us want to
(11:19):
get from A to Z, and we just want to
get from A to Z, and we don't want to
do all the work in between. So I thought, well,
let's just focus on getting to B. Let's go for
A to B and then let's see about going to C.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. And once I got
everybody to get in agreement with like, yeah, we can
do that. We'll hike for an hour and then we'll vote,
(11:39):
and we literally stopped every hour. Are we all in?
And yeah? At a certain point everybody was like yeah,
I'm not going to say no. But it really helped
our minds. Instead of trying to get to that mountain
way over there that was seven days a week, you know,
seven days away, it was like, we're just going to
get to that little hill, right, And by the third
(12:01):
day we were like, all right, let's agree. After a
half a day and then and then finally we were
like all right, we're in. We're in. But we often
get overwhelmed with our ideas and our goals and our
things we want to accomplish, and when we get overwhelmed,
a lot of us just freeze, shut down, give up.
And when I found that we made it digestible. It
(12:24):
just made it that much more possible.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Well, you're making me think of an analogy, which is
I was like, I don't I'm you know, listening to
you tell that story. You could apply that to someone
that's five thousand dollars in debt and just be happy
to get to four thousand, that's right, and then just
be happy to get to three thousand and then to two.
(12:49):
I remember when I was finally out of debt, I
had accumulated way too much debt for my liking, but
you know, it was what it was, what it was,
and then you know, market crashes happened. But I remember,
and I don't think I was consciously thinking of it,
but I remember thinking, oh, wow, I'm at this point now,
(13:12):
and that's great, and I'm not at that point anymore.
Oh I'm so grateful. But I mean, don't you think
you could There's a lot of emotions. There's a lot
of emotions in that, don't you think about?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And I don know where you are.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think to your point, right, we
don't know when we see somebody else in a position
and we make a judgment, oh wow, look you know,
look how far they think they've gone, or how come
they haven't come far enough. We're not getting the whole picture, right.
It's like the tip of the iceberg. We're just seeing
a fraction of what's going on. I remember a story
(13:48):
about there was a man. He was drunk. He was
passed out, and he was laying on the curb and
it was raining, and people walking by and going, oh,
look at that lazy drunk. But if you were in
his shoes, he had taken himself out of the street
and out of the water and at least gotten too
(14:09):
higher ground. Right, it was a baby step. Okay, yeah,
it wasn't all the way, but if you saw where
he started and where he landed, it was still a
better place. And most of us are we think our
experience is what somebody else's experience, and so we know
what's best for them. And the reality is we all
(14:29):
do know our own stories, and so to be able
to say, wow, yeah I could be further along, but man,
I'm further along than where I was previously. And as
long as I'm breathing and have a breath and a passion,
I'm going to keep moving in that direction.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah. Well, you know, I think that a lot of
times fear and shame can be emotions that show up
in money behavior. What would you say to that? How
do you think that happens?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Well, you know, it starts young. When you're a kid.
I want lots of I want lots of toys for Christmas. Oh,
Santa's gonna think you're greedy. You're a greedy kid. Do
you deserve that? Oh? Maybe I don't. There's other kids
that work harder, there's more kids that like are more deserving,
and so that's early, that's early on. I saw a
(15:23):
kid one time, and it was in February. The kid
was in a toy store. He wanted a toy and
the mom said, that's it. You're so selfish. I'm gonna
tell Santa you're not getting anything next year for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
This kid was begging and pleading, having a traumatic experience,
begging mom, please don't tell Santa. She's like, no, that's it,
you're a bad kid. Well, that kind of stuff when
we're when we're young, it hurts and February for a
kid that's like two thousand years to Christmas, right, And
I was just it was it was hurt wrenching to
(15:58):
see this kid feeling the full impact of what it
meant to him. And so when we're little, you know,
we're either taught to save or spend it all and
we start taking in all this information thinking it's going
to serve us for life. And we're grabbing all this
information and we often don't update the information as we
(16:22):
become adults.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Well you know what you're making me think now, Bob
is you were saying, you were giving me a little
bit of a definition about what semantic therapy is. And
it sounds like we can carry a lot of stuff.
So would that tie in? Would would actually therapy help
somebody who feels like, oh, I know I've got some
(16:44):
stuff that I never let go of.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Absolutely for people. My editor on the book said to me,
I'm very non emotional, uh like, I don't have I
don't let emotions play in with money. And I said
to her, well, who pays for lunch when you go
out with your dad? Because well, my dad does. I'm
his little princess I said, who pays for your lunch
when you go out with your mom? She's like, I
do because I feel like my dad left my mom
(17:07):
and I feel bad for her. She's a victim. I said,
who pays for lunch when you go out with your sister?
She said, oh, it's fifty to fifty? We're oh okay,
I see right. We even those little things when you
win the lottery or you don't. You either go, oh
my god, I won, or I never win. When your
credit card gets declined at a store, The wrenching feeling
(17:32):
in your stomach, I'm so ashamed. Right, all of those things,
you get a surprise bonus you were Oh my god.
All of that's we feel it. We feel it.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, So how could gratitude help shift those heavier emotions?
And you know, I think that maybe you might be
you know, we could say, well maybe a would be
having a sense of peace or perspective. So is there
(18:06):
a way that gratitude could shift something that's pretty heavy?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah? Absolutely. I think when we start expressing gratitude and
focus on gratitude, then money becomes a tool. Right, It's
not a goal. It's not like I got to have more. Yeah,
I'm grateful. I have enough. I am enough. I have enough,
and I don't mind more coming my way instead of
(18:31):
I got to get more. It's not enough until I
get to this place. And so it does reduce anxiety.
It gives us a purpose that's really bigger than us,
because yes, I'm in control of my life, and some
of it I don't control, and I can only control
what I can control, and the rest I can be
(18:52):
appreciative when it's a good day, and even when it's
a bad day, I appreciate that I survived it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, well, what do you think I was gonna? I'm
just thinking, what are some common stories that you see
people carrying around?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I'm not enough. If people found out that I was
an impostor, it would all be taken from me. A
sentence that came up in workshops a lot. If you
knew the truth about my financial situation, you would leave me. Oh,
(19:29):
and the other piece that has come up in coaching
and workshops and in therapy, people saying, you know, if
I lose the house, if I lose the business, if
I make less than this much money, my parents won't
love me anymore. And so one of the tasks I
(19:50):
would give people is hey, sit down with your folks
over dinner and ask them what is the dollar amount
or what things do you have to lose so that
they won't love you anymore?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
What? They look at you going what what?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Because the truth is, for most of us, our parents
are going to love us. They may not, they may
be annoyed, they might be disappointed. For most of us,
they're not going to walk away from us. But we
believe that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We Yeah, it's just a story, It's a and.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
That story is so powerful. I've watched people sabotage businesses
and business deals because they thought doing anything else than
letting it fail would disappoint their parents.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Wow, well that's okay. Oh yeah. And a lot of times,
you know, through this podcast, I'm feeling like every time
every episode, I want somebody to go and have something
that they can take away that they can then implement.
(21:02):
So if listeners are listening to this and going wow,
maybe I should look at this. What would be a
first step to rewriting a money story? What would you say?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
The first thing involves writing. So there's two ways you
can do it. One is you can just start. If
you don't feel comfortable writing, start with a morning gratitude journal.
I'm grateful that I woke up this morning. I'm happy
that I'm in a warm space if it's cold outside. Right,
Just two or three things that I'm grateful and happy about,
(21:43):
So not a whole lot, but just enough to go,
oh yeah, sort of set a positive tone. Yeah, for
whatever comes your way. Yeah, And that's a great first
start this. Just start recording gratitude in the morning if
you want to get fancy at the end of the day.
I'm grateful that I didn't yell back at my boss
when he got upset at me. I'm grateful that I
(22:05):
made it home in the pouring rain. Right, And so
maybe a recap of now that I've experienced the day,
what are some actual things that happened today. I'm grateful
for my puppy came and gave me a kiss when
I got home, whatever it might be. The other thing
to really help change the story is still more journaling.
I find that really important is to start writing about
(22:28):
what is my story? You know, I will never have
more than this amount of money. My parents came from
a background of believing this, and start excavating and getting
it out there so that we can have some awareness.
Oh that's right. When I was five, that thing happened
to me. I got so embarrassed. I lost the milk money,
(22:52):
I did something in front of a group of people,
and I was so shamed. And starting to find the
stories can start to heal them because we all have
a story. It's either fact or fiction, and most of
us have created fiction that doesn't serve us, and so
we need to know what's really going on so we
can say is that still serving me? Because I want
(23:15):
a different story. I want to feel my gratitude. I
want to feel like I have enough, that I am enough,
And how do I show open the world so that
I can be of service and come in as a
person of light instead of somebody that How can I take?
But how can I give?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You? Know that it's making me think that nobody is
ever going to change unless they're aware. So it might
be this is like, maybe this conversation today is a
first step to even being aware that you're right go
about every day in a different way. I was also
(23:55):
going to tell you about that I am surprised. Eight
years ago I found something called a five year journal, Okay,
and basically it's just a few little lines. Anyway, I'm
on my eighth year. Every night I have a couple
of little lines that I write something about that day,
and I barely remember what I did last week. But
(24:19):
because I've now got I'm on my second five year journal,
I can look back and go, Wow, look what I
was doing this year. Look at what I was doing
that year. It's really fun to look back and then
also just you know, think about, wow, look at how
far I've come. So journaling can be you know, if
you have that's something that I really love. And five
(24:42):
year journals are just a journal that has a space
and it's set up so that you have five years,
but it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
It's a little bit, little bit and I don't know
if you handwrite it. I'm a big fan of handwriting things.
And people say, well, I can type it and this,
and that there is data to suggest that when we
put pen to paper or pencil to paper, that there's
a connection with our brain. And so for me, and
(25:12):
that's the way I studied in high school and college,
I would write my answers out five times. I would
just write everything repetition, because there is a relationship when
we're writing it to paper, and so I think that's
really important. But that's the first big step and the
questions that I would be asking myself because this is
good questions, right, Yes, am I willing to do the work?
(25:37):
Am I willing to get uncomfortable? And for me, it's
so important to get really curious. Isn't it interesting that
I don't think I can make over five thousand dollars
a month? Isn't it interesting that I don't think I
deserve a promotion. Isn't it curious that I often spend
(25:58):
more than I make? Right, So we're trying not to
judge it. We're just trying to get really interested. And
why am I doing this? What's the purpose?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Wow? Well, so I want to circle back around to
like humor and comedy. You use humor as a tool, right, Yes,
so I really love that. And how does laughter help
people let down their guard when it comes to money?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Well? We I mean, it's been proven that laughter helps
relax the body and puts us in a better place.
Laughter is the best medicine for me. A lot of
people take this stuff very serious. When we're talking about
people's money and we're talking about debt and we're talking
about what they have and accomplished. Yet it's really serious, right,
and we're so rigid and tight, and we're about to
(26:54):
just crack if somebody were to snap us right, well, humor,
what I will often do is I'll tell a story
about somebody else with a very similar situation, and they're like,
oh my god, that's so funny. Oh oh, that's me,
And I'm like, what, yeah, whoh, I didn't even notice
the relationship, you know, And then they're able to laugh
(27:18):
about it. And the more we can take ourselves a
little bit less serious on these serious things, the better
we're going to feel. Because if we're so tight and
just bent on proving to everybody how perfectly, if we've
done it and we presented so well, we don't really
allow ourselves to be fully present.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Wow. Well, for someone who feels anxious about finances, what
could be a simple gratitude practice they could start today?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
So I think mantras are really great. It could even
be something as simple as I'm grateful, but I have
finances to be anxious about. Right for me, it's important
to take the current reality and bridge it with the future. So,
(28:12):
for example, a lot of people will say I don't
know anything about finances and I never will. I want
to take that and rephrase it as right now, I'm
not really comfortable with financial decisions and looking at my finances,
and I'm working on doing it differently going forward, so
(28:32):
that I can hold the truth of what I'm feeling,
my anxiety and the truth of me wanting to take
it to a new place.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Wow, you're reframing.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Reframing absolutely right, Yeah, and sometimes write it down and
then and figure out the reframe right, Sometimes you're not
going to Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
So how can we being grateful for what we have
well still staying motivated to grow and improve financially? Don't
you think that there's some push and pull there?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Absolutely? Absolutely, So when I say I want to explore
my gratitude, I'm not saying I want to explore complacency
or that now I don't need to move forward anymore,
or I can just stay where I am because energy moves, moves,
and so I want to keep moving. I don't want
(29:36):
to stagnate and go Yeah, I got where I needed
to be. I don't need to learn anything else. I
don't need to do anything else. Right, And so some
people think that that's what that. Oh well, if I'm grateful,
then I don't need not at all. Like I'm grateful
that I have goals and passion and energy, and I'm
grateful that I have the tools to make some, if
(29:57):
not all, of those things come to fruition. And I
just think it's important to not see gratitude as complacency
or stagnation or I don't need to do anything else
because I'm comfortable, Because even in a comfortable place, we
want to still keep our tools fresh and our.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
You like, we kind of started out talking about being,
you know, being grateful for where you're at, so you
could you could basically frame this to say, oh, look
at how far I've come along this path to that
(30:36):
thing that I'm going for.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Absolutely absolutely, like we're learning and doing until the day
we die.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, I think we are. I think that. Yeah, me too.
I feel like I'm a lifelong learner, right. And do
you believe that gratitude can actually influence financial outcomes?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Absolutely absolutely, because for me, again, it's about energy. If
I have enough, then I'm not desperately trying to make
sure this next deal goes through because it will be
the end of me or it will close all my paths.
If I'm grateful what's already here, more abundance is going
to come my way because I'm comfortable with abundance. I'm
(31:28):
comfortable with allowing more stuff to come in, and I'm
also grateful if this is all that I get.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, I want to circle back around to the whole
semantic therapy thing. Let's talk a little bit about how
does tuning into the body help people heal the relationship
with money.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Well, if you do any reading, there are a lot
of people that have heart attacks over finance. Is during
certain stock market crashes, people jumped off of buildings, right, yeah,
it took an emotional toll. And if we can just stop.
And I said this on a podcast one time that
(32:13):
was a very very you know, intellectual conversation. I said,
the first thing I tell everybody is take a breath.
Yeah great, And they all went, oh, yeah, that's a
great idea. You know, I know there and think got
some crazy person. Right. The thing is, if we can
at least take a breath and get present and say, wow,
I'm feeling a whole lot of anxiety. Wow, I'm really
(32:36):
nervous when I have to make big decisions. You know,
buying a house or selling a house. Great way to
experience lots of emotions. Yeah, so freaking stressful every time.
But if we can like just take a moment to
get present and feel, oh my gosh, I feel really
tight in my stomach. I feel nauseous because we're going
(32:57):
to be talking about uh, you know, giving up the inheritance,
or we're going to start talking about promotion, and I
have to tell people why I deserve it. Oh and
so it's really really good to what's going on in
my body and how can I relax it so I
can be receptive.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
So can we relate this to couples or families. I'm
thinking about using gratitude to reduce tension, yeah right, and
improve money conversations, because a lot of times having a
money conversation with a significant other or one of your children,
(33:38):
that that can be a huge issue.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Absolutely absolutely Well. Interestingly enough, a lot of couples historically
have come into my tax meetings with tell us, who's right?
We have dinner writing on this, Who's right? And what
I'll say to them is, well, I'll let you know,
but let me ask you this, are you guys on
(34:02):
the same team or are you trying to beat each other? Yeah,
because I find you'll go further if you actually join forces.
And they're like what And I think sometimes in relationships
we sort of lose track of that a little bit
and it starts to become a competition on a certain level,
even though we love them and they're amazing. I'm going
(34:25):
to win and I'm going to win that dinner. And
I found like even in some workshops I was working
with couples and they would be like, all right, it's
my I'm going to take on the dragon as well.
You go take care of the kids and then you
go fight the dragon. And I was like, what if
you stand together? Like what if you stand united, maybe
you can take on all of it together and support
(34:46):
each other. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that,
and so if we can, if we can focus on Wow,
I'm so grateful that I have a partner that I
can stand beside. I'm grateful that I have somebody that
I can have a shoulder to lean on. I'm grateful
that I have a shoulder to give them to lean on.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
You're making me think of over the years, you know,
like I've been a financial adviser, for twenty five years.
I have had more than a few times when I
have had a couple in my office and they've said,
are you sure you're not a therapist? Yeah, like, well,
(35:27):
maybe I am, you know, because I'll sit there going
They'll be going back and forth, you know, about something
with money. So yeah, it's a real thing.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
You are. And it's true because the other thing about money,
like talking about kids, if you're not a good kid,
you're out of the you're out of the you're out
of the will, You're not going to get anything. You're
being bad, right, And so sometimes we substitute money for love. Yeah,
if you do these things, I'll give you more money. Yeah,
(35:59):
show you which I love you. Yeah, And we start
and some of us we, oh, my goodness. You know,
my grandparents, my maternal grandparents, really wanted us to love them,
and so whenever they would show up, we all need
to put our piggy banks out. They put money in it.
I'd get a new fishing pole, and they would do
(36:21):
all kinds of things so that we would like them
better than our paternal grandparents. Oh, they were super clear
about it. They were like, we want you to like
us better. We're like okay, because we make lots of
money off this, so we'll do it right. We didn't
know and they didn't know, right. We loved them anyway,
but the money was nice.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Well, talking about your own, you know, talking about your journey,
how has gratitude changed your personal relationship with money? I
mean you've told you know, you've told a couple of
stories about growing up now and it's like, wow, well,
how do you think it's changed you?
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Yeah. I think what's happened is I certainly I enjoy success.
I certainly enjoy making money. I certainly enjoy the flexibility
and the choices I have by having money. And I
think what's changed is I'm not driven by it. Like,
I still have ambition, I still have passion. I still
(37:20):
have lots of goals and there's lots of things I
want to accomplish. Yeah, I'm no longer focused on okay,
I might have to take out other people because I
got to win. Now it's more focused on I want
to reach this goal. And when I have money, I'm
able to help other people. I'm able to pay it forward.
And so for me, it shifted my energy from I
(37:45):
got to get more, I got to get more got
to get to the top to Yeah, life is really
good and if I had some more that'd be cool too,
But it's not money. And it's so crazy because I
enjoy money, but money is not the driving force. I
will walk away from a client or lose money versus
(38:06):
giving up my integrity. Yes, absolutely every time, And I
no regrets on that. And I know people that are like, well,
they'll never know. Yeah, I know, And I have to
sleep with myself, so I'm not going to do something
even if you know. Integrity is doing the right thing
when nobody's looking. We can all do the right thing
when everybody's holding us accountable. It's in those moments when
(38:30):
you buy yourself. Nobody's going to notice if you change,
like that's when it matters. And so for me, it's
really shifted how I focus my energy. It's no longer
about I got to beat other people and people must
lose so I can win. It's about how do I
show up so I can be of service and how
can I use my money as a tool to help
(38:51):
other people.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So feeling I'm feeling inspired that we need to ask
I need to ask this question again in a different
If there's anyone feeling stuck or feeling like they're totally
completely in scarcity or fear. What would you say is
the first small shift that can make a difference. And
(39:14):
that's basically we kind of talked about this earlier, but
I'm feeling like we need to answer that again. So
what would be a small shift for someone who's like,
I'm never going to get out of this?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
I think the first thing, and it's sort of like
the Morning Journal, like, are what are some truths that
are right here? And now affirmations more affirmation, so that
it might be the define I'm never going to get
out of this. Wait a minute, I paid my rent
this month. I bought groceries this month. Yeah, I didn't
get to buy the ice cream, but I bought my
(39:49):
proteins and my veggies, right, Like, it can be that simple.
I was able to mail a letter today. I was
able to use my cell phone because I paid the bill. Right.
It doesn't have to be I think sometimes we think
it has to be really grandiose and it's got to
be amazing, and it's got to be like skyscrapers and millions. Yeah,
(40:12):
sometimes it's as simple as I was able to eat
an apple, right, it's not earth shattering, but it's forward movement.
And so I think just to start to look around
at the little things because I used to go, yeah,
whatever whatever, I'm grateful that I was able to buy
something that I have trash that I can throw away,
(40:33):
right Like, I just I think it is easy to
get into that mindset of like, oh my gosh, and
I've got to get out of here tomorrow. You didn't
get there in a day. You're not going to get
out of it a day. So I think if you
can keep saying to yourself, you know what, this too
shall pass. I heard somebody say, you know, the best
thing and the worst thing about like some amazing accomplishment
(40:56):
or some devastating life event, this you shall pass.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, you're making me think of you know, there's I
have gone through. Well, there's several things in my journey
that has informed me being a financial advisor, and a
lot of mistakes that I've made. How can gratitude help
(41:22):
us forgive ourselves? There's another side of this coin, right, yeah,
help us forgive ourselves for past financial mistakes. What do
you think?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well, I mean, the first thing is I'm grateful for
my mistakes because I learned. I don't want to do
that again. Yeah right, I'm grateful that I didn't have
it all come so easy. Yeah, because when I stumble,
I remember that more than when everything comes easy.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
So I think to me to be able to say, yeah,
I'm grateful that I made some mistakes and I it
is hard often to say, you know what, I forgive
myself like I didn't have all the tools, I didn't
have all the resources. My parents didn't know. Not their fault,
Like I did the best I could, but I did
(42:16):
the best I could, and do it. If you've done
the best you could even though you had limited resources
or no resources or no information, be a little forgiving,
be a little kind. I think it's easier for us
to advocate for other people. It's easier for us to
be kind to other people, and sometimes to just turn
(42:39):
it on ourselves and say, yeah, I did pretty good
all things considered. Yeah, And at the end of the day,
I'm still here regardless of all my mistakes. I'm still
here and I still have as long as I have
opportunity to make amends or to keep going forward, Like
that's all I can do. I can I can apologize
(43:02):
for how I hurt people. I can apologize for missing things,
I can apologize for not doing it the best, and
I can hold myself accountable. But I'm not going to
take myself out for the rest of my life for
doing something that I didn't really know what.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
I was doing.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Right, Yeah, yeah, because if I was, I'm not the
same person that I was. Like back in two thousand
and eight when the world was in all is financial chaos,
I wouldn't have made I wouldn't make those same mistakes today.
But that's because I learned right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
That's right, and sometimes we have to. It takes ten
times for us to learn it, and then we're like, okay,
go I got it. Now stop.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Well as usual, our time is drawing to a close.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
I always go, I'm like, I thought we were ten
minutes in. I thought no, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
So we need to I need to kind of start
wrapping this up. I've loved having this time with you.
And if listeners could do just one thing, let's kind
of end with what's the one takeaway? If listeners could
do just one thing today to feel more grounded, grateful,
and financially at peace, what would you leave people with?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I would lead with be curious, Be curious, because if
I'm not curious, if I'm not curious about you, then
I don't really get to know you. If I'm not
curious about me, I don't really get to know me.
I can live this little story in my head, and
(44:49):
if I actually start looking at all the parts of me,
the parts I think are ugly, and the parts that
I wish I could change, and the parts that I
actually really appreciate about myself. Like I just think it's
so where I think we don't get curious enough and
being a lifetime learner like you were talking about, I
want to keep asking how can I keep showing up
(45:10):
in a way that feels authentic and that feels like
I'm being of service without taking myself out right?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Awesome, Well, Bob, what a great This has just been
so wonderful to talk about this. And you know, everyone
can take something out of this. Maybe they go and
get a five year journal. Maybe they just put a
piece of paper by their bed tonight and or in
(45:41):
the morning and start writing things down. Maybe they just
start doing some affirmations. Who knows.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Absolutely start with I'm enough, I have enough, I'm enough,
I have enough.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, you don't need to go to Fiji or Africa
or Nepal to find out that you have enough.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
So with that we need to wrap this up and
so Bob, thank you so much for being with us today,
my pleasure. Thank you. And with that we'll say thank
you for joining the Ask Good Questions podcast. See you
next time.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Today's episode is over. But we did ask Good Questions again,
didn't We don't miss out as we broadcast live every Wednesday,
six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at
w four cy dot com. Joined Nina Bellen. We're saying
next week for more conversations with experts on finances, retirement,
(46:46):
behavioral finance issues, health and wellness and more. Until then,
remember to ask good questions.
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY
Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to to Ask Good Questions Podcasts, broadcasting live every Wednesday,
six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at
w four cy dot com. This week and every week,
we will reach for a higher purpose in money and life,
as well as a focus on health and wellness. Now,
(00:49):
let's join your host, Anita Bell Anderson, as together we
start with Asking Good Questions.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, Hello, and welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Ask Good
Questions Podcast. I'm so happy that you're here today with us.
We have got a fantastic show. We're going to talk
about something really important. It has to do with the
power of gratitude and money and health and wellness and
it's going to all kind of roll together. So I
(01:23):
have a fabulous guest with me today. I'd like to
invite him now to the podcast stage.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Hey, Benita, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Good? Good? Not seeing your picture yet, but ah there
you are?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Who time difference?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah, Hey, this is Bob Wheeler, and I'm gonna give
you a little bit of background on Bob. His mission
is to empower individuals and communities to transform their relationship
with my What a great idea, breaking free from the
(02:04):
fears of you know, shame and confusion that so often
hold people back. He is a CPA, he's an author,
he's a comedian, and he's a somantic therapist. I'm not
sure if I know what a somantic therapist. Maybe you
can tell us a little bit. He brings a wealth
(02:25):
of experience to the table. He offers a unique perspective.
I don't think I've had well, I think I've had
one other communic comedian. But we're hopefully this is going
to be an engaging discussion today. He really wants to
rewrite people's stories around money and by addressing both the
(02:45):
practical and the emotional aspects of money management. He feels
like you can cultivate, cultivate a more balanced, fulfilling relationship
with our finances and ultimately with ourselves. So, Bob, since
I have a comedian with me today, are you ready
(03:06):
for a gratitude joke?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I'm ready lay it on us.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, now, as I told you, I'm in Hawaii actually
for another six months with my husband. We're on a
service mission for our church. So I'm coming at you
from Hawaii, out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean
with twenty five hundred miles of ocean around us, and
(03:31):
it's between seventy five and eighty five every day. So
this Thanksgiving in Hawaii, I am extra grateful because nothing
says abundant blessings like turkey gratitude and not having to
shovel snow.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That sounds like a winner every time. I'm not sure
if the turkeys as happy as we are.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
No, I'm not sure either, but appreciate you. But I've
heard that the turkey that gets pardonered by the president
every year, I guess there is some place where they go. Ah,
that's good, Yeah, sanctuary turkey shank really right, So is
(04:16):
there anything that she'd like to add to that introduction?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Well, let's see, I'm also the CFO at the world
famous Comedy Store. I've been there for twenty eight years,
and I think the experiences of the Comedy Store, of
being a CPA, being a comedian, somatic therapist, body based therapy.
We feel things, we hold on to things, so we
don't just talk about it. How do I feel about
(04:42):
that and where do I feel it in my body?
And so those things have all come together to really
help me come up with tools and conversations to have
with people about having a different outcome changing our story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Awesome. Well, well, I really love how you how you
connect or how do you know how you can connect
gratitude and money. So those are two things that people
don't often link together. So what first inspired you to
connect those two things?
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well, you know, it's funny, Uh, many of us are
socialized right to make lots of money, be super successful,
make money, make money. We're not socialized to stop a
moment and say, wow, I'm really grateful that I'm making
lots of money or that I'm having lots of success
because I got to get to the next thing. I
(05:37):
got to keep going, and I was socialized. I am
my immediate accomplishments. I am my bank account, and so
I got to keep these things growing and going. And
it wasn't until a bit later on, and uh, when
I was in Africa where people weren't so obsessed about
(05:58):
success and more money and all those accolades, I thought,
why are these people so happy? What's wrong with them?
Don't they know? And so what happened was for me
it was a course correction because I was sure I
was right. I was sure that it was all about
having more and not pausing to say, is this enough?
(06:21):
Am I grateful? Am I appreciating it? Am I actually
stopping to enjoy the fruits of my labor? Because often
we're so busy creating them we don't actually take them
moment say oh wow, yeah hard. So that's really where
it started coming in for me to realize I hadn't
(06:43):
been that grateful. I appreciated things, and it was important
to be of service, but I hadn't really stopped to
take a look around and say, wow, I'm really grateful
to be right where I am and having the ability
to get somewhere else. That's where I want to be
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, I think I told you that I'm a scuba diver.
And there was one time when I was in Fiji
and I got to talk to a Fijian chief chieftain
guy on an island and they lived with next to nothing,
and I got that that perspective that they had everything
(07:23):
they needed and they were happy and they're living in
a hut and there wasn't anything else they needed. So
you have some stories around Africa and Nepal, so I
would love to weave those in here at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, absolutely, so. Really, Africa was the first awakening I
everybody around me. I was in Tanzania average income at
the time, one hundred dollars a year per person, no shoes,
using broken pots and pans to cook their food, asking
(08:01):
if they could have the trash I was throwing out
so they could use the containers and recycle things, and
they were all just so happy. And at a certain point,
I think I almost got annoyed. I'm like, why are
you people so happy? Don't you understand what's wrong with you?
(08:22):
And they just kept beaming with happiness, with gratitude, appreciation,
joy and celebration, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm
too busy trying to make lots of money and show
everybody how amazing my life is to actually stop and
celebrate and have joy. And it really messed with my
mind because I was doing all the great things. I
(08:44):
had my fancy car, and I was doing all the marks,
and I hadn't really stopped and said wow, like here
I am, and most of us don't take them to
just say thank goodness. I woke up this morning, Thank
(09:05):
you Lord for letting me breathe this morning because some
people didn't wake up this morning. Thank you for me
being able to get out of bed. And even if
I'm feeling to make some pains, I know I have
a body and those little things. And so it once
I started just seeing how and I've been to Africa,
to different countries, almost everywhere I go gratitude, happiness, appreciation,
(09:29):
wanting to make sure that my experiences are you know
that I can go back and tell everybody how amazing
it was. That it was just in the energy, and
it was a beautiful lesson for me because it really
shifted my entire focus, taking it out of myself, and
even though I had always been about service in church
(09:50):
and different things, actually just saying wait a minute, it
is all bigger than me, and I'm grateful to get
to be a part of it and grateful for how
I can show up and be of service.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Right, awesome, same thing in Nepal? Were you tricking in Nepal?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So I did a couple of treks to base camp
Mount Everest, and the second time around, I took friends
and family and everybody was super excited. I was sort
of the leader of the pack because I had been before.
And the very first day is a really hard day
because you get into the National Park and you have
to go down a bunch of steep rocks and inclines
(10:33):
and declines and all this stuff. And halfway down that
first day, everybody said, oh wow, this is really hard.
Let's just go back to Catman Do and go shopping
and get massages and like, let's not do this fike.
And of course, being a money person, I'm like, I
just spent ten thousand dollars. I'm going to get my
money's worth for the next three four weeks. And in
(10:57):
that moment, and I know other people have mentioned this,
it was not on my radar, I just thought, Okay,
what can I do. Let's negotiate and hike for an
hour and then decide if we're going to keep hiking.
And so what we did was we just took it
in baby steps, because what I have found in my
life and with my clients, most of us want to
(11:19):
get from A to Z, and we just want to
get from A to Z, and we don't want to
do all the work in between. So I thought, well,
let's just focus on getting to B. Let's go for
A to B and then let's see about going to C.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. And once I got
everybody to get in agreement with like, yeah, we can
do that. We'll hike for an hour and then we'll vote,
(11:39):
and we literally stopped every hour. Are we all in?
And yeah? At a certain point everybody was like yeah,
I'm not going to say no. But it really helped
our minds. Instead of trying to get to that mountain
way over there that was seven days a week, you know,
seven days away, it was like, we're just going to
get to that little hill, right, And by the third
(12:01):
day we were like, all right, let's agree. After a
half a day and then and then finally we were
like all right, we're in. We're in. But we often
get overwhelmed with our ideas and our goals and our
things we want to accomplish, and when we get overwhelmed,
a lot of us just freeze, shut down, give up.
And when I found that we made it digestible. It
(12:24):
just made it that much more possible.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Well, you're making me think of an analogy, which is
I was like, I don't I'm you know, listening to
you tell that story. You could apply that to someone
that's five thousand dollars in debt and just be happy
to get to four thousand, that's right, and then just
be happy to get to three thousand and then to two.
(12:49):
I remember when I was finally out of debt, I
had accumulated way too much debt for my liking, but
you know, it was what it was, what it was,
and then you know, market crashes happened. But I remember,
and I don't think I was consciously thinking of it,
but I remember thinking, oh, wow, I'm at this point now,
(13:12):
and that's great, and I'm not at that point anymore.
Oh I'm so grateful. But I mean, don't you think
you could There's a lot of emotions. There's a lot
of emotions in that, don't you think about?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And I don know where you are.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think to your point, right, we
don't know when we see somebody else in a position
and we make a judgment, oh wow, look you know,
look how far they think they've gone, or how come
they haven't come far enough. We're not getting the whole picture, right.
It's like the tip of the iceberg. We're just seeing
a fraction of what's going on. I remember a story
(13:48):
about there was a man. He was drunk. He was
passed out, and he was laying on the curb and
it was raining, and people walking by and going, oh,
look at that lazy drunk. But if you were in
his shoes, he had taken himself out of the street
and out of the water and at least gotten too
(14:09):
higher ground. Right, it was a baby step. Okay, yeah,
it wasn't all the way, but if you saw where
he started and where he landed, it was still a
better place. And most of us are we think our
experience is what somebody else's experience, and so we know
what's best for them. And the reality is we all
(14:29):
do know our own stories, and so to be able
to say, wow, yeah I could be further along, but man,
I'm further along than where I was previously. And as
long as I'm breathing and have a breath and a passion,
I'm going to keep moving in that direction.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah. Well, you know, I think that a lot of
times fear and shame can be emotions that show up
in money behavior. What would you say to that? How
do you think that happens?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Well, you know, it starts young. When you're a kid.
I want lots of I want lots of toys for Christmas. Oh,
Santa's gonna think you're greedy. You're a greedy kid. Do
you deserve that? Oh? Maybe I don't. There's other kids
that work harder, there's more kids that like are more deserving,
and so that's early, that's early on. I saw a
(15:23):
kid one time, and it was in February. The kid
was in a toy store. He wanted a toy and
the mom said, that's it. You're so selfish. I'm gonna
tell Santa you're not getting anything next year for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
This kid was begging and pleading, having a traumatic experience,
begging mom, please don't tell Santa. She's like, no, that's it,
you're a bad kid. Well, that kind of stuff when
we're when we're young, it hurts and February for a
kid that's like two thousand years to Christmas, right, And
I was just it was it was hurt wrenching to
(15:58):
see this kid feeling the full impact of what it
meant to him. And so when we're little, you know,
we're either taught to save or spend it all and
we start taking in all this information thinking it's going
to serve us for life. And we're grabbing all this
information and we often don't update the information as we
(16:22):
become adults.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Well you know what you're making me think now, Bob
is you were saying, you were giving me a little
bit of a definition about what semantic therapy is. And
it sounds like we can carry a lot of stuff.
So would that tie in? Would would actually therapy help
somebody who feels like, oh, I know I've got some
(16:44):
stuff that I never let go of.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Absolutely for people. My editor on the book said to me,
I'm very non emotional, uh like, I don't have I
don't let emotions play in with money. And I said
to her, well, who pays for lunch when you go
out with your dad? Because well, my dad does. I'm
his little princess I said, who pays for your lunch
when you go out with your mom? She's like, I
do because I feel like my dad left my mom
(17:07):
and I feel bad for her. She's a victim. I said,
who pays for lunch when you go out with your sister?
She said, oh, it's fifty to fifty? We're oh okay,
I see right. We even those little things when you
win the lottery or you don't. You either go, oh
my god, I won, or I never win. When your
credit card gets declined at a store, The wrenching feeling
(17:32):
in your stomach, I'm so ashamed. Right, all of those things,
you get a surprise bonus you were Oh my god.
All of that's we feel it. We feel it.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, So how could gratitude help shift those heavier emotions?
And you know, I think that maybe you might be
you know, we could say, well maybe a would be
having a sense of peace or perspective. So is there
(18:06):
a way that gratitude could shift something that's pretty heavy?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah? Absolutely. I think when we start expressing gratitude and
focus on gratitude, then money becomes a tool. Right, It's
not a goal. It's not like I got to have more. Yeah,
I'm grateful. I have enough. I am enough. I have enough,
and I don't mind more coming my way instead of
(18:31):
I got to get more. It's not enough until I
get to this place. And so it does reduce anxiety.
It gives us a purpose that's really bigger than us,
because yes, I'm in control of my life, and some
of it I don't control, and I can only control
what I can control, and the rest I can be
(18:52):
appreciative when it's a good day, and even when it's
a bad day, I appreciate that I survived it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, well, what do you think I was gonna? I'm
just thinking, what are some common stories that you see
people carrying around?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I'm not enough. If people found out that I was
an impostor, it would all be taken from me. A
sentence that came up in workshops a lot. If you
knew the truth about my financial situation, you would leave me. Oh,
(19:29):
and the other piece that has come up in coaching
and workshops and in therapy, people saying, you know, if
I lose the house, if I lose the business, if
I make less than this much money, my parents won't
love me anymore. And so one of the tasks I
(19:50):
would give people is hey, sit down with your folks
over dinner and ask them what is the dollar amount
or what things do you have to lose so that
they won't love you anymore?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
What? They look at you going what what?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Because the truth is, for most of us, our parents
are going to love us. They may not, they may
be annoyed, they might be disappointed. For most of us,
they're not going to walk away from us. But we
believe that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We Yeah, it's just a story, It's a and.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
That story is so powerful. I've watched people sabotage businesses
and business deals because they thought doing anything else than
letting it fail would disappoint their parents.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Wow, well that's okay. Oh yeah. And a lot of times,
you know, through this podcast, I'm feeling like every time
every episode, I want somebody to go and have something
that they can take away that they can then implement.
(21:02):
So if listeners are listening to this and going wow,
maybe I should look at this. What would be a
first step to rewriting a money story? What would you say?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
The first thing involves writing. So there's two ways you
can do it. One is you can just start. If
you don't feel comfortable writing, start with a morning gratitude journal.
I'm grateful that I woke up this morning. I'm happy
that I'm in a warm space if it's cold outside. Right,
Just two or three things that I'm grateful and happy about,
(21:43):
So not a whole lot, but just enough to go,
oh yeah, sort of set a positive tone. Yeah, for
whatever comes your way. Yeah, And that's a great first
start this. Just start recording gratitude in the morning if
you want to get fancy at the end of the day.
I'm grateful that I didn't yell back at my boss
when he got upset at me. I'm grateful that I
(22:05):
made it home in the pouring rain. Right, And so
maybe a recap of now that I've experienced the day,
what are some actual things that happened today. I'm grateful
for my puppy came and gave me a kiss when
I got home, whatever it might be. The other thing
to really help change the story is still more journaling.
I find that really important is to start writing about
(22:28):
what is my story? You know, I will never have
more than this amount of money. My parents came from
a background of believing this, and start excavating and getting
it out there so that we can have some awareness.
Oh that's right. When I was five, that thing happened
to me. I got so embarrassed. I lost the milk money,
(22:52):
I did something in front of a group of people,
and I was so shamed. And starting to find the
stories can start to heal them because we all have
a story. It's either fact or fiction, and most of
us have created fiction that doesn't serve us, and so
we need to know what's really going on so we
can say is that still serving me? Because I want
(23:15):
a different story. I want to feel my gratitude. I
want to feel like I have enough, that I am enough,
And how do I show open the world so that
I can be of service and come in as a
person of light instead of somebody that How can I take?
But how can I give?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You? Know that it's making me think that nobody is
ever going to change unless they're aware. So it might
be this is like, maybe this conversation today is a
first step to even being aware that you're right go
about every day in a different way. I was also
(23:55):
going to tell you about that I am surprised. Eight
years ago I found something called a five year journal, Okay,
and basically it's just a few little lines. Anyway, I'm
on my eighth year. Every night I have a couple
of little lines that I write something about that day,
and I barely remember what I did last week. But
(24:19):
because I've now got I'm on my second five year journal,
I can look back and go, Wow, look what I
was doing this year. Look at what I was doing
that year. It's really fun to look back and then
also just you know, think about, wow, look at how
far I've come. So journaling can be you know, if
you have that's something that I really love. And five
(24:42):
year journals are just a journal that has a space
and it's set up so that you have five years,
but it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
It's a little bit, little bit and I don't know
if you handwrite it. I'm a big fan of handwriting things.
And people say, well, I can type it and this,
and that there is data to suggest that when we
put pen to paper or pencil to paper, that there's
a connection with our brain. And so for me, and
(25:12):
that's the way I studied in high school and college,
I would write my answers out five times. I would
just write everything repetition, because there is a relationship when
we're writing it to paper, and so I think that's
really important. But that's the first big step and the
questions that I would be asking myself because this is
good questions, right, Yes, am I willing to do the work?
(25:37):
Am I willing to get uncomfortable? And for me, it's
so important to get really curious. Isn't it interesting that
I don't think I can make over five thousand dollars
a month? Isn't it interesting that I don't think I
deserve a promotion. Isn't it curious that I often spend
(25:58):
more than I make? Right, So we're trying not to
judge it. We're just trying to get really interested. And
why am I doing this? What's the purpose?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Wow? Well, so I want to circle back around to
like humor and comedy. You use humor as a tool, right, Yes,
so I really love that. And how does laughter help
people let down their guard when it comes to money?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Well? We I mean, it's been proven that laughter helps
relax the body and puts us in a better place.
Laughter is the best medicine for me. A lot of
people take this stuff very serious. When we're talking about
people's money and we're talking about debt and we're talking
about what they have and accomplished. Yet it's really serious, right,
and we're so rigid and tight, and we're about to
(26:54):
just crack if somebody were to snap us right, well, humor,
what I will often do is I'll tell a story
about somebody else with a very similar situation, and they're like,
oh my god, that's so funny. Oh oh, that's me,
And I'm like, what, yeah, whoh, I didn't even notice
the relationship, you know, And then they're able to laugh
(27:18):
about it. And the more we can take ourselves a
little bit less serious on these serious things, the better
we're going to feel. Because if we're so tight and
just bent on proving to everybody how perfectly, if we've
done it and we presented so well, we don't really
allow ourselves to be fully present.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Wow. Well, for someone who feels anxious about finances, what
could be a simple gratitude practice they could start today?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
So I think mantras are really great. It could even
be something as simple as I'm grateful, but I have
finances to be anxious about. Right for me, it's important
to take the current reality and bridge it with the future. So,
(28:12):
for example, a lot of people will say I don't
know anything about finances and I never will. I want
to take that and rephrase it as right now, I'm
not really comfortable with financial decisions and looking at my finances,
and I'm working on doing it differently going forward, so
(28:32):
that I can hold the truth of what I'm feeling,
my anxiety and the truth of me wanting to take
it to a new place.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Wow, you're reframing.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Reframing absolutely right, Yeah, and sometimes write it down and
then and figure out the reframe right, Sometimes you're not
going to Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
So how can we being grateful for what we have
well still staying motivated to grow and improve financially? Don't
you think that there's some push and pull there?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Absolutely? Absolutely, So when I say I want to explore
my gratitude, I'm not saying I want to explore complacency
or that now I don't need to move forward anymore,
or I can just stay where I am because energy moves, moves,
and so I want to keep moving. I don't want
(29:36):
to stagnate and go Yeah, I got where I needed
to be. I don't need to learn anything else. I
don't need to do anything else. Right, And so some
people think that that's what that. Oh well, if I'm grateful,
then I don't need not at all. Like I'm grateful
that I have goals and passion and energy, and I'm
grateful that I have the tools to make some, if
(29:57):
not all, of those things come to fruition. And I
just think it's important to not see gratitude as complacency
or stagnation or I don't need to do anything else
because I'm comfortable, Because even in a comfortable place, we
want to still keep our tools fresh and our.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
You like, we kind of started out talking about being,
you know, being grateful for where you're at, so you
could you could basically frame this to say, oh, look
at how far I've come along this path to that
(30:36):
thing that I'm going for.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Absolutely absolutely, like we're learning and doing until the day
we die.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, I think we are. I think that. Yeah, me too.
I feel like I'm a lifelong learner, right. And do
you believe that gratitude can actually influence financial outcomes?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Absolutely absolutely, because for me, again, it's about energy. If
I have enough, then I'm not desperately trying to make
sure this next deal goes through because it will be
the end of me or it will close all my paths.
If I'm grateful what's already here, more abundance is going
to come my way because I'm comfortable with abundance. I'm
(31:28):
comfortable with allowing more stuff to come in, and I'm
also grateful if this is all that I get.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, I want to circle back around to the whole
semantic therapy thing. Let's talk a little bit about how
does tuning into the body help people heal the relationship
with money.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Well, if you do any reading, there are a lot
of people that have heart attacks over finance. Is during
certain stock market crashes, people jumped off of buildings, right, yeah,
it took an emotional toll. And if we can just stop.
And I said this on a podcast one time that
(32:13):
was a very very you know, intellectual conversation. I said,
the first thing I tell everybody is take a breath.
Yeah great, And they all went, oh, yeah, that's a
great idea. You know, I know there and think got
some crazy person. Right. The thing is, if we can
at least take a breath and get present and say, wow,
I'm feeling a whole lot of anxiety. Wow, I'm really
(32:36):
nervous when I have to make big decisions. You know,
buying a house or selling a house. Great way to
experience lots of emotions. Yeah, so freaking stressful every time.
But if we can like just take a moment to
get present and feel, oh my gosh, I feel really
tight in my stomach. I feel nauseous because we're going
(32:57):
to be talking about uh, you know, giving up the inheritance,
or we're going to start talking about promotion, and I
have to tell people why I deserve it. Oh and
so it's really really good to what's going on in
my body and how can I relax it so I
can be receptive.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
So can we relate this to couples or families. I'm
thinking about using gratitude to reduce tension, yeah right, and
improve money conversations, because a lot of times having a
money conversation with a significant other or one of your children,
(33:38):
that that can be a huge issue.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Absolutely absolutely Well. Interestingly enough, a lot of couples historically
have come into my tax meetings with tell us, who's right?
We have dinner writing on this, Who's right? And what
I'll say to them is, well, I'll let you know,
but let me ask you this, are you guys on
(34:02):
the same team or are you trying to beat each other? Yeah,
because I find you'll go further if you actually join forces.
And they're like what And I think sometimes in relationships
we sort of lose track of that a little bit
and it starts to become a competition on a certain level,
even though we love them and they're amazing. I'm going
(34:25):
to win and I'm going to win that dinner. And
I found like even in some workshops I was working
with couples and they would be like, all right, it's
my I'm going to take on the dragon as well.
You go take care of the kids and then you
go fight the dragon. And I was like, what if
you stand together? Like what if you stand united, maybe
you can take on all of it together and support
(34:46):
each other. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that,
and so if we can, if we can focus on Wow,
I'm so grateful that I have a partner that I
can stand beside. I'm grateful that I have somebody that
I can have a shoulder to lean on. I'm grateful
that I have a shoulder to give them to lean on.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
You're making me think of over the years, you know,
like I've been a financial adviser, for twenty five years.
I have had more than a few times when I
have had a couple in my office and they've said,
are you sure you're not a therapist? Yeah, like, well,
(35:27):
maybe I am, you know, because I'll sit there going
They'll be going back and forth, you know, about something
with money. So yeah, it's a real thing.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
You are. And it's true because the other thing about money,
like talking about kids, if you're not a good kid,
you're out of the you're out of the you're out
of the will, You're not going to get anything. You're
being bad, right, And so sometimes we substitute money for love. Yeah,
if you do these things, I'll give you more money. Yeah,
(35:59):
show you which I love you. Yeah, And we start
and some of us we, oh, my goodness. You know,
my grandparents, my maternal grandparents, really wanted us to love them,
and so whenever they would show up, we all need
to put our piggy banks out. They put money in it.
I'd get a new fishing pole, and they would do
(36:21):
all kinds of things so that we would like them
better than our paternal grandparents. Oh, they were super clear
about it. They were like, we want you to like
us better. We're like okay, because we make lots of
money off this, so we'll do it right. We didn't
know and they didn't know, right. We loved them anyway,
but the money was nice.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Well, talking about your own, you know, talking about your journey,
how has gratitude changed your personal relationship with money? I
mean you've told you know, you've told a couple of
stories about growing up now and it's like, wow, well,
how do you think it's changed you?
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Yeah. I think what's happened is I certainly I enjoy success.
I certainly enjoy making money. I certainly enjoy the flexibility
and the choices I have by having money. And I
think what's changed is I'm not driven by it. Like,
I still have ambition, I still have passion. I still
(37:20):
have lots of goals and there's lots of things I
want to accomplish. Yeah, I'm no longer focused on okay,
I might have to take out other people because I
got to win. Now it's more focused on I want
to reach this goal. And when I have money, I'm
able to help other people. I'm able to pay it forward.
And so for me, it shifted my energy from I
(37:45):
got to get more, I got to get more got
to get to the top to Yeah, life is really
good and if I had some more that'd be cool too,
But it's not money. And it's so crazy because I
enjoy money, but money is not the driving force. I
will walk away from a client or lose money versus
(38:06):
giving up my integrity. Yes, absolutely every time, And I
no regrets on that. And I know people that are like, well,
they'll never know. Yeah, I know, And I have to
sleep with myself, so I'm not going to do something
even if you know. Integrity is doing the right thing
when nobody's looking. We can all do the right thing
when everybody's holding us accountable. It's in those moments when
(38:30):
you buy yourself. Nobody's going to notice if you change,
like that's when it matters. And so for me, it's
really shifted how I focus my energy. It's no longer
about I got to beat other people and people must
lose so I can win. It's about how do I
show up so I can be of service and how
can I use my money as a tool to help
(38:51):
other people.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So feeling I'm feeling inspired that we need to ask
I need to ask this question again in a different
If there's anyone feeling stuck or feeling like they're totally
completely in scarcity or fear. What would you say is
the first small shift that can make a difference. And
(39:14):
that's basically we kind of talked about this earlier, but
I'm feeling like we need to answer that again. So
what would be a small shift for someone who's like,
I'm never going to get out of this?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
I think the first thing, and it's sort of like
the Morning Journal, like, are what are some truths that
are right here? And now affirmations more affirmation, so that
it might be the define I'm never going to get
out of this. Wait a minute, I paid my rent
this month. I bought groceries this month. Yeah, I didn't
get to buy the ice cream, but I bought my
(39:49):
proteins and my veggies, right, Like, it can be that simple.
I was able to mail a letter today. I was
able to use my cell phone because I paid the bill. Right.
It doesn't have to be I think sometimes we think
it has to be really grandiose and it's got to
be amazing, and it's got to be like skyscrapers and millions. Yeah,
(40:12):
sometimes it's as simple as I was able to eat
an apple, right, it's not earth shattering, but it's forward movement.
And so I think just to start to look around
at the little things because I used to go, yeah,
whatever whatever, I'm grateful that I was able to buy
something that I have trash that I can throw away,
(40:33):
right Like, I just I think it is easy to
get into that mindset of like, oh my gosh, and
I've got to get out of here tomorrow. You didn't
get there in a day. You're not going to get
out of it a day. So I think if you
can keep saying to yourself, you know what, this too
shall pass. I heard somebody say, you know, the best
thing and the worst thing about like some amazing accomplishment
(40:56):
or some devastating life event, this you shall pass.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, you're making me think of you know, there's I
have gone through. Well, there's several things in my journey
that has informed me being a financial advisor, and a
lot of mistakes that I've made. How can gratitude help
(41:22):
us forgive ourselves? There's another side of this coin, right, yeah,
help us forgive ourselves for past financial mistakes. What do
you think?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well, I mean, the first thing is I'm grateful for
my mistakes because I learned. I don't want to do
that again. Yeah right, I'm grateful that I didn't have
it all come so easy. Yeah, because when I stumble,
I remember that more than when everything comes easy.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
So I think to me to be able to say, yeah,
I'm grateful that I made some mistakes and I it
is hard often to say, you know what, I forgive
myself like I didn't have all the tools, I didn't
have all the resources. My parents didn't know. Not their fault,
Like I did the best I could, but I did
(42:16):
the best I could, and do it. If you've done
the best you could even though you had limited resources
or no resources or no information, be a little forgiving,
be a little kind. I think it's easier for us
to advocate for other people. It's easier for us to
be kind to other people, and sometimes to just turn
(42:39):
it on ourselves and say, yeah, I did pretty good
all things considered. Yeah, And at the end of the day,
I'm still here regardless of all my mistakes. I'm still
here and I still have as long as I have
opportunity to make amends or to keep going forward, Like
that's all I can do. I can I can apologize
(43:02):
for how I hurt people. I can apologize for missing things,
I can apologize for not doing it the best, and
I can hold myself accountable. But I'm not going to
take myself out for the rest of my life for
doing something that I didn't really know what.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
I was doing.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Right, Yeah, yeah, because if I was, I'm not the
same person that I was. Like back in two thousand
and eight when the world was in all is financial chaos,
I wouldn't have made I wouldn't make those same mistakes today.
But that's because I learned right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
That's right, and sometimes we have to. It takes ten
times for us to learn it, and then we're like, okay,
go I got it. Now stop.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Well as usual, our time is drawing to a close.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
I always go, I'm like, I thought we were ten
minutes in. I thought no, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
So we need to I need to kind of start
wrapping this up. I've loved having this time with you.
And if listeners could do just one thing, let's kind
of end with what's the one takeaway? If listeners could
do just one thing today to feel more grounded, grateful,
and financially at peace, what would you leave people with?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I would lead with be curious, Be curious, because if
I'm not curious, if I'm not curious about you, then
I don't really get to know you. If I'm not
curious about me, I don't really get to know me.
I can live this little story in my head, and
(44:49):
if I actually start looking at all the parts of me,
the parts I think are ugly, and the parts that
I wish I could change, and the parts that I
actually really appreciate about myself. Like I just think it's
so where I think we don't get curious enough and
being a lifetime learner like you were talking about, I
want to keep asking how can I keep showing up
(45:10):
in a way that feels authentic and that feels like
I'm being of service without taking myself out right?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Awesome, Well, Bob, what a great This has just been
so wonderful to talk about this. And you know, everyone
can take something out of this. Maybe they go and
get a five year journal. Maybe they just put a
piece of paper by their bed tonight and or in
(45:41):
the morning and start writing things down. Maybe they just
start doing some affirmations. Who knows.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Absolutely start with I'm enough, I have enough, I'm enough,
I have enough.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, you don't need to go to Fiji or Africa
or Nepal to find out that you have enough.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
So with that we need to wrap this up and
so Bob, thank you so much for being with us today,
my pleasure. Thank you. And with that we'll say thank
you for joining the Ask Good Questions podcast. See you
next time.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Today's episode is over. But we did ask Good Questions again,
didn't We don't miss out as we broadcast live every Wednesday,
six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at
w four cy dot com. Joined Nina Bellen. We're saying
next week for more conversations with experts on finances, retirement,
(46:46):
behavioral finance issues, health and wellness and more. Until then,
remember to ask good questions.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Male Room with Dr. Jesse Mills
As Director of The Men’s Clinic at UCLA, Dr. Jesse Mills has spent his career helping men understand their bodies, their hormones, and their health. Now he’s bringing that expertise to The Male Room — a podcast where data-driven medicine meets common sense. Each episode separates fact from hype, science from snake oil, and gives men the tools to live longer, stronger, and happier lives. With candor, humor, and real-world experience from the exam room and the operating room, Dr. Mills breaks down the latest health headlines, dissects trends, and explains what actually works — and what doesn’t. Smart, straightforward, and entertaining, The Male Room is the show that helps men take charge of their health without the jargon.