March 5, 2024 • 35 mins
On this episode of; "Barguments the Podcast - hosts Dan "Bass" Levy.. and Joe Kelly welcome media personality, an American attorney, and former U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission enforcement lawyer Ron S. Geffner. Together, they #Bargue over the following topics:
- What's the greatest NY deli?
- How close are we to a recession?
- What are the best ways to prepare for retirement and what makes for the best supplemental income?
- What's the best movie about money?
Once again, please continue to share the Barguments the Podcast with neighbors and friends, and make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode of the show. And while you are at it, please give us a 5-star rating and share your feelings about Bargumentst by leaving a review on whatever platform you listen to the show.
- What's the greatest NY deli?
- How close are we to a recession?
- What are the best ways to prepare for retirement and what makes for the best supplemental income?
- What's the best movie about money?
Once again, please continue to share the Barguments the Podcast with neighbors and friends, and make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode of the show. And while you are at it, please give us a 5-star rating and share your feelings about Bargumentst by leaving a review on whatever platform you listen to the show.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Arguments is recorded in front of alive studio audience. What's up, everybody,
Welcome in Barguers. My name isDan Levy. Welcome to Bargaments.
Our co host Joe Kelly is doingsome karaoke. He's on assignment. Will
catch him next time. But withme is a very special guest that I
was privileged to have. On.Ladies and Gentleman from Los Angeles. We
(00:22):
have an American attorney, former USSecurities Exchange Commission enforcement lawyer, the SEC
enforcement lawyer. Ladies and Gentleman,ron As Gefner. What's going on?
Ron All's Cohen? Good Dan?Except I am in New York and not
California. Ah, that's okay,go get him. So far, so
so far. If you want toanswer question number two and go all for
(00:43):
nothing, you can go go forbroke, risk it all. Oh,
here's the question for you. GreatestDelhi in New York. So I feel
bad as a Jew in the sensethat I can't say that I know all
the Delis or all the Chinese restaurantsout here, but the one I tend
to frequent, one I do oncertain holidays is Katz's Delhi. Ah.
(01:06):
Katz is a very very very gooddeli, and I have no issues with
it. But if you're going togo to the heart of me and break
into what it is that is madeup of Dan Levy thirty third and third,
there's a deli by the Second,No, No, Second Avenue Deli
is the greatest deli of all time. I've been there. That's a family
(01:29):
stable. Whenever I come to NewYork. By the way, the Matsopol
Super Sargees Deli is also really spectacular. I do love it them. See
in Chicago, where I'm at,delis are not really a thing. We
have Manny's Deli, which is outhere, which is got made famous because
when Obama was a senator, hewould come to Chicago, he would be
in Chicago, he lived around thearea, and a lot of politicians would
go to Manny's Deli, which isa very good deli, kosher style deli.
(01:53):
But it adds it holds no waterto anything I've ever had in New
York. By the way, I'mgoing to la and a couple of weeks
to visit my daughter. She isasked me to freeze pagels and bring them
with me. Oh yes, yeah, it just doesn't compare it really is
the salt of the air for theocean. I'm convinced that's what makes the
New York bagels just so much betteranywhere in Chicago. The food out here
(02:15):
in but don't get me wrong,it's second to none. I love the
food out here. We do thingsin mass quantities. It's glutton it is
pure and gluttony. But the stablesof a guy like me who's spent a
good chunk of his childhood on theEast Coast, you can't do the bagels
out here like you Ken of NewYork Deli's and bagels. It just doesn't
(02:35):
rock like it does in the EastCoast. No, it doesn't. So
taught to me. You are aman of all kinds. You're a man
of all kinds of expertise, andone of the things you are big on
is definitely some financial stuff that's goingon, and especially this time of we
are in twenty twenty four. I'llsay this, and I've been talking to
a lot of people, especially beforewe did this podcast, and I was
(02:58):
like, you know what, Igot a financial guy, a man of
many, many different talents. Youknow what, would you guys want a
lot of people in the radio stationthere's a lot of younger people here,
a lot of the millennials, alot of a younger generation, and it
seems like I assume they were allabout crypto. It's crypto to a point.
But here's here's what the real thebutt of it all is. In
(03:19):
twenty twenty four, people in hertwenty is getting out of high school and
they're starting to become in this world. The world is not set up for
one job for a lifetime anymore.And if you get one job, with
the way society is, with theway the market is, or the way
the inflation is, job cutting,cost cutting. Things have to be in
a situation where we as workers inthis country need more than one income.
(03:44):
And when you hear things about cryptoand the markets, a lot of that's
intimidating for a lot of people.So there's a lot of gig marketing.
But you're a guy who's a masterin the crypto, you're a guy who's
kind of in the know out abouta lot of these things. If you're
going to advise somebody who's a millennial, what is the best path that they
should do to start making themselves financiallyset for their future. And I know
(04:05):
the expectation is with regard to ananswer about money, and I would tell
you that is the carrot and notthe stick. I would say it's education,
it is take your time. Oneof the challenges I've had in investing
is as a lawyer, I amtrained to problem solve, so it's usually
(04:28):
you get a question and you goright into action and resolution. It's also
almost like the story about sometimes thenail is just a nail, where you
have a male talking to women andalways wants to resolve their problems as supposed
to just listen right. People whoare professional investors or traders have a skill
of learning how to sit on theircash and be careful when they invest.
(04:53):
So I would say there is noimmediacy of putting your money to work unless
you know how you're putting it towork. So that's where I go back
to education. It is by wayof example, when I say education,
depending on your job, and ifyou have a job where you're just making
ends meet, this is not goingto be a relatable response initially. But
(05:15):
part of investment is also doing what'scalled cash flow analysis. It's looking at
your expenses and your income and realizingand anticipating how you're going to have to
spend your money. It's investing moneythat you can afford to lose. It's
knowing your time horizon for the investmentand what your goal is. Are you
looking to generate income? Are youlooking for capital gains? What's your risk
(05:38):
tolerance? Diversity of your investments,diversification, how old are you? Age
based investing? All of these thingsweigh into the decision process. And then
it's also just keep your eyes open. It's not uncommon to learn from what
we experience or see. So ifyou see a product as in demand,
then you look at the company manufacturesthe product. Maybe you can catch on
(06:01):
ahead of everybody else. Maybe not. Like for me, I'm not an
economist. I am not an investmentadvisor, a wealth manager. I represent
them as a lawyer. But latelymy sense of fear of the economy keeps
escalating. Why does it keep escalating? I look at various institutions now laying
(06:23):
people off by the hundreds or thousands, Banks, entertainment, a lot of
sectors seem to be affected. Youlook at inflation rates, you look at
what the Fed is doing, andyou don't have to be in a conversy
Okay, interest rates are going up. Go online and google what happens when
interest rates go up. Take aday or two. Make the more you
(06:46):
learn, the more you're going tobe curious to learn more, and then
educate yourself in conversations. So that'sthe best place to start. And if
it's something that you're too lazy about. And what I always told my kids
and my ex wife is money moneycomes with responsibility. If you want to
have money, there's a responsibility thatcomes with it. And if you're gonna
(07:10):
be one of those finger pointers outthere and you want to give it to
somebody else and go buy the seaterpans and hope they know what they're doing.
Great, But I'd rather trust butverify. So even if you're going
to give it to an asset manager, wealth manager, do your homework so
you can ask intelligent questions. Let'sget down more of a brass tax.
Because everything you're saying is one hundredpercent correct, and I agree with all
(07:32):
that. Say, you have akid right now, he's twenty years old,
or he's eighteen years old, he'sgraduating high school. Dad, I'm
not really sure what I want todo. I want to make money.
I want to get involved in something. I want to start setting myself up
for something. What are some stepsthat you would advise a nineteen year old
kid, eighteen year old kid andgetting out high school? Should I go
(07:53):
to college and waste my money ona degree that I'm not sure I want?
Or what can I do right nowthat would start setting me up to
be a financial okay later on inlife? What would you advise? So,
first and foremost, nothing beats ineducation. I understand that there's a
concept that the education is not worththe paper that it's printed on, But
I would also argue that to nothave one puts you at a disadvantage.
(08:16):
And things that I've read in themarketplace indicate that college graduates are in a
significantly greater percentage of income the noncollege grads. So that said, you
can always argue that statistically. Gonnasay, but in what field? Because
I'm in radio and I got adegree, and I would say that for
the most part, for me,the degree that I have in communications I
(08:39):
probably should not have gone to collegefor because right now I am paying off
massive student loan debts at forty threeyears old. As twenty years out of
college with radio going up and down, up and down, and me being
in and out of gigs, andI'm going to put loans on pause.
Even with my degree when I stepout of radio, what else can I
do? There's not a lot outthere for me that I can kind of
(09:00):
go off and do, and havinga degree or not a degree has yet
to really service me in my professionalcareer. Yeah, and I understand why
you're saying it that way, butI would also question you to say,
what else did you learn other thanthe academics of it. Did it influence
your ability or methodology for how yougo about approaching information? Well, I
think I would say that what itdid was it was a vehicle for me
(09:22):
to get an internship to learn somebasics of the industry and get the internship
where I can then get professional experienceto then try to leverage myself into getting
a job. But now the waythings are, with the way life is,
there's vocational schools where I could havegone to an eight month shotgun of
a school broadcasting school, spent aboutnot even a fraction of what I did
(09:43):
on a four year university, andthen I would not have been as in
debt right now as I am sofirst, by way of background, before
I give you further guidance, it'simportant to really understand my bias. Sure,
I went, I went to college, and I went to law school.
I have not suffered through debt.My education was paid for my family.
(10:07):
I did not always want to bea lawyer. My parents offered to
pay for it. They always toldme that I spoke well. They are
immigrants and they perceived it to havevalue. Each of my children have gone
to college and graduated, and Iwould argue that they are applying the knowledge
that they'd gained to their current careers. That said, if somebody's uncertain,
(10:31):
and really it's coming at an economicchallenge, take a gap year, maybe
a gap year or two years work, get a sense of what your appreciation
for what it is you may wantto do. If you're trying to select
careers. And if you and Iwere counseling somebody who's in high school,
not somebody who's eighteen and just graduating, I might sit there and say,
(10:54):
let's go. Have you talk todifferent people of different careers and ask questions
that really are relevant to listen totheir life experience. What did you like,
what did you not like? Whatis your great because I would turn
to you Dan say, maybe collegewasn't the mistake. Maybe the communication major
is a mistake, and might therehave been another path in college that might
have benefited you in ways that wouldhave influenced you differently. Well, I
(11:18):
knew what I wanted to do.I wanted to get into radio. I
wanted to do something in this field. So getting a degree in something else
would have I think, would havechanged the course. So what it is
I was trying to go after.So if I went after, let's say
a marketing degree, then that wouldhave been a whole different path or a
field than what it is I gotinto. It could be but you might
(11:39):
approach distribution of your product, orif you went and had an English major,
you may go about approach writing differently. Which we all write, whether
you think you do or do notall writings. You're all writing texts,
even if you're tweeting your writing.So it's all communicating. You're all communicating,
and it's not just about your career. Who you are as an individual
(12:01):
and your state of mind and yourpsyche and your sense of confidence, and
that also influences your ability to succeedwith the way things are in life right
now. Inflation, how much furtherinto this are we going? How much
higher do you see it going?And how much more do you see it
affecting younger kids that are not reallysure what's going on in the world and
(12:22):
about to take on some of society'sbiggest debts. So I have twenty eight
year old boy girl twins, andI have a twenty four year old,
so they actually serve as a gaugefor some of the questions you're asking me,
because I speak to them continuously.My youngest daughter just moved to Los
Angeles, and one of the conversationsI have with her is how difficult it
(12:46):
has been to afford things, butfor her mother and I they're being able
to help her from time to time, how inflation has impacted or how the
cost of food has gone up butthe cost of gas has gone up,
and and I hear that also frommy other children at times, how challenging
it is that said, I'm sureyou obviously you felt that way because you're
(13:11):
carrying debt load from student wounds.I felt that way at various times of
my life. So inflation, yourguess is as good as mine as to
how far it's going. The inflationnumbers came in higher than expected. I
don't know what economists are predicting onan ongoing basis, and I don't know
what the Fed is going to do, but inflation has definitely impacted the economy
(13:33):
for certain. During the COVID,as rates went down, companies were borrowing
money was referred to as free moneybecause interest rates were so low, and
they felt that they were in aposition to invest it at a higher rate
of return, thereby making a differenceon the rate of return of income against
which they were borrowing it. Sotheir money was making the money. Once
you raise interest rates, it takesaway some of that free money, and
(13:56):
it puts more pressure on a rangeof businesses. And we are starting to
see that effect, which is goingback to what I just said about companies
laying off the risk of mistake comesat a higher cost. Now, gotcha
on the flip side, I'm aman in my forties, probably about a
good twenty years away from retiring,which I don't see myself ever doing.
(14:18):
I just have the basics. Igot a you know, I got the
pension for my union, I gotthe roth Ira, and I got a
couple other things. If a galllike myself in his forties right now is
like, you know what, Iprobably should have been paying more attention to
my retirement and planning for a future. I was too busy trying to do
this. What are some other stepsthat somebody should do with they're a little
bit later in life trying to figureout how to set up themselves for retirement.
(14:43):
So I'll compare it. Also,do you go to the gym?
Do you go to a doctor?Yes? Okay, So it's getting into
habits or patterns. Getting the kindof guy that goes to a gym.
You know what, I'm not outhere to judge you, and you can
be working your fut in a gym. Is sweating it up. It could
just be genetics or a horrible carinjury that affected you. Oh yeah,
(15:05):
nice, nice. So anyway,so the point is saving money. Like
I said, money's an obligation.It comes with obligations part of its patterns
too. So it's if you canbarely make ends meet, and I sound
like a crazy person talking still tryand find a way to save ten dollars
a month. It's about the habit. So like going to the gym,
(15:28):
I start and stop a lot,but getting into the pattern of even if
I go and I have a badworkout, but I'm there for twenty minutes,
thirty minutes, forty minutes, beingthere is half the battle. So
with savings, it's the same kindof concept. Get into a pattern every
month of putting the same money awayand so that you don't spend money that
you don't conceivably believe that you have, and don't even worry about investing in
(15:50):
it initially. If that's a highbar or something that causes you anxiety,
just get in the habit of savingmoney and putting it away and making on
touch. Unless you are in alike extreme life circumstance, we have no
choice. That's the start. Ifyou have if you're young and you have
kids, set up a five totwenty nine plan for your children as early
(16:11):
as possible. If you're setting upa business and you're young, structuring a
business properly so it's tax efficient.All of those things save. If you're
working for a company, see ifthey have an HSA ability where you can
put money away from your paycheck pretax that goes into either debit card or
credit card like structure that when youget your medical bills, you can use
(16:36):
to pay your bills, and it'spre tax money. It's be smarter with
your money. If you have afour oh one K plan, max it
out as best as you can atyour job, especially if they have matching.
If you're in your twenties or thirties, and it seems insignificant to you
relative to what you think you needto retire, I don't care. Still
save money. You're not going tobe worse off that jacket, those shoes,
(17:00):
the restaurant you went to twenty yearsfrom that you're not going to remember.
I like it. I like it. You seem to be a man
who's around a lot of different celebritiesand people of this nature. How often
do you are you advising a lotof these guys too? Like? I
mean you have a picture of MagicJohnson in the background. Yeah, that
(17:22):
is probably one of the better moneypeople I've seen in a long time.
Is that somebody that you advise oris that somebody you want to do business
with? When you when you getin to a room with a person like
that, what is the uh?What is the what is the mission to
accomplish? So my approach to thingsmay actually be different than most other people's
approach. I just go into allmy meetings just trying to get to know
(17:45):
the person I'm meeting with, whetherthey are poor, whether they're wealthy,
whether they're famous, whether they areinfamous, it's irrelevant. People are people
now. The reality is the morewealth you have, possibly the more fame
you have. And you probably haveexperienced this, because I can't imagine you
haven't met people similarly to me.It's they're going to be guarded, and
(18:07):
justifiably so because they get approached bya high number of people, no one
knows what the intentions are. Sothe people that I'm genuinely friendly with that
fit into either of those categories,I just enjoy hearing their life experiences because
they are like you or I,and but for certain facts or circumstances that
occurred, they ended up in theposition they are in. They may have
(18:30):
hoped in dream like ninety nine otherpercent of the people in the world,
but for them it actually occurs.So a lot of times it's right place,
right time, no matter the talent. Because I'm in radio and I'm
a person that is always looking fordifferent streams of income because I don't have
a degree that it would be probablytransferable to a lot of other things.
(18:52):
Come on communication, you have theworld? What else? World of color?
What else can I get myself into? What kind of what is the
market? Something I should learn howto kind of drift into? I want
to I'd like to start doing alittle bit more like side business stuff.
What's a good easy here's a simplething you could do that would start to
generate some good income without having areally invest too much capital into. So
(19:14):
I will answer a question with aquestion, and then I will come to
the answer. I like it.I want to get into radio. I
want to get into podcasting. SoI just drift into it, get a
microphone and start blabbing on YouTube.And a lot of people are a lot
of people are I know? Andhow are the A lot of people doing
well? The X athletes are actuallydoing pretty well. Those athletes. Those
are people that had some sort offame or presence. But if you're you're
(19:37):
somebody who's off the street, yourun into my Walgreens or Walmart. I
get said, somebody up to doa podcast right now with almost no money
involved. But the point is isare they going to toil an anonymity.
So what I was trying to getto is to do anything with any level
of excellence. I don't think youcan go into it casually, gotcha.
That's that was the point I wastrying to make. And what I would
(20:02):
also say is find things you're passionateabout that will help motivate you to get
to excellence. So it could besecurities industry, it could be real estate,
it could be a lot of differentthings. It'd be going into operating
businesses and providing a service in returnfor an interest in the business. It
doesn't always have to be dollars thatyou have to contribute or invest. It
(20:26):
could be contribution of time, contributionof reputation, contribution of knowledge. There
were a lot of different ways todo it. But going back to savings,
going back to the gym. Ifyou go, when you do it
once and you fail and you're like, all right, I'm going to call
it a day, you failed yourself, and I can't imagine you succeeded the
(20:48):
first try. It was a lotof door slamming in our faces. It
was a lot of turn down's,heartbreaks and regret. And if it's something
you really believe in, it reallyrequires conviction, right, I would say,
you know, whatever you do doesn'tmatter, just be the best at
whatever it is you do. Whowould you say is the most shrewdest business
(21:08):
person you've ever been around? Mymom? Really? Yeah, my mom
passed, but and my mom isfirst generation American. Both my parents were
self educated, and she just hadan instinct of curiosity. It's the raw
skills. It's not just becoming abillionaire. I mean, at least not
(21:30):
in my mind. It's nice,right, but there's also a bell curve
that reflects that if you have toolittle or too much money, it's no
bueno. There's a certain sweet spotwhere things are a little bit in stasis
and balanced. Well, I onlyknow one side of that coin, and
if I ever get to the toomuch money, I would love to have
(21:51):
that conversation with you. So let'skeep in touch and maybe we could try
to give you that other side ofthe hump and then we can come back
and out. But you know what, there's too much money. I think
it's for the birds. I gotto get rid of all this cash.
It's burning a whole in my pocket. Now, go ahead, No,
that's funny, But you know what, when you do you'll need me to
help you have a place, alawyer, something else. At the end
(22:15):
of this conversation, I'm gonna needa lawyer for the lawyer, all right,
But if I send you a bill, it's okay. It means you're
important. I was gonna say,that's a nice amount of podcasts. I
can just chalk it up to entertainmentvalue, buddy, So exactly, well,
well, we'll throw another bargument atyou. Because it's the world of
money, it's the world of investment, it's a world of of what of
financial things? So for me,let me ask you this one greatest financial
(22:38):
movie of all time, greatest moneymovie of all time, entertainment or educational.
No in the world of that peoplewould know if you were to ask
somebody a doubt off the street.I really liked and it's a toss.
It was Wall Street, yes,or Wolf of Wall Street, which when
(23:03):
I worked at the SEC. WhenI worked at the SEC, one of
the people that prosecuted, Jordan Belford, was one of my friends. I
remember him coming in and talking tome about as that story broke really that
said it was a the movie wasentertaining good actors and actresses, and it
kept moving along, and on somelevel it made a point. It's sort
(23:26):
of like a lot of movies wherethey go a little overboard and they're trying
to make a point, like barbeing other things about male misogyny. Wall
Street did it with regard to financingsnake oil salesman. That's not bad.
Those two were w the ones Ithink most people would know, the Wall
Street the Wolf of wall Street.There's also was it The Big and Short
is another one that everybody kind oftalks about, and I interviewed. I
(23:49):
interviewed the person from Newburger Berman thatactually the movie is based on who was
a fascinating guy. But I Idid just see a movie on Netflix that
I really like called Dumb mond Me. I saw that as well. Now,
I found it really interesting that theyhad comedic actors playing serious roles.
Seth Seth Roan, I just reallyenjoy I really, I'm a big Seth
(24:12):
Rogan fan, a big job Ienjoy. I enjoy those two as well.
It's fun. It's one of thosethings where you're like, I've only
known them from comedies and stoner movies, and end they'll be in something serious
and you're like, man, Ican't believe I really bought into that.
That's pretty awesome. But they seemlike what makes them likable is that they
seem like people you would want tohang out with. And I think that's
(24:36):
why watching movies are relatable exactly.There's a couple of movies I would throw
on there too that not a lotof people would say, But I would
say that The Founder, the movieabout the McDonald's. I'm not sure if
you saw that one with Michael Keaton, that one. That one is probably
you didn't go into it thinking itwas gonna be a whole money thing,
but it ended up being like areally shrewd and crap a movie where you're
(25:00):
like, ah, there was aguy with money whoknew what he wanted to
do. So for me, thatone is one of the tops. The
Wolf of wall Street I think isthe greatest one because I like where they're
at the restaurant and he's pounding hischest, yes the whole Matthew McConaughey,
I mean, because I mean,I'm just assuming that is what Wall Street
was back in those days, andeverybody's just trying to scam everybody. Let's
(25:22):
get the most, you know,indulgent life. I possibly can all the
drugs, all the women, allthe lobsters, the yachts, the boats,
all that stuff, and I stillthink in a lot of ways some
people are still trying to do that. Well, think about the different cycles
we have. We had that cyclewith all the crypto millionaires, right,
and then people living to excess.So I would pause it to you and
(25:48):
the listeners that when we're in economictimes, at our boom periods, you
will see that behavior. It's humancondition. Everything we're dealing with. We're
people. We all engage in verysimilar behavioral patterns with very few outliers.
If you really look at the popget the disbursement of population. So yeah,
(26:08):
it with crypto, you have itwith every peak in the industry.
There are people that just get caughtup in that lifestyle of that menia.
What do you make of crypto?Is it sticking around? Is it one
of those things that went out toohard and then they they started busting all
those guys with all the uh withall the issues and all the Ponzi schemes
(26:29):
that were going on. Or isit one of those things where if everybody
stays tight. Because I once tothe podcast with a financial expert, and
he told me to go into putsome money into UH, into the crypto
and the the A, the allthe different ones that are connected with that,
and he said, let me justsit there for about twenty years,
put a little bit more and ifyou can, but it's going to be
a game of where he goes upand down, up and down. But
(26:49):
you should pretty much financially do prettywell with it. But then everything's gone
on since I'm not sure if that'sthe way to roll. Yeah, the
concept buy and hold and invest inreal businesses and real companies. While there's
some merit to it conceptually, thereare arguments also that are against it that
(27:11):
if you try and time the market, you're never going to be able to
time it and real quick. Onthe founder, it goes back to what
I said about investing your money.It's really about conviction and it's about following
through on your vision. So RayKroc, if you watch the movie,
but if you listen to any successfulperson, they go into it with high
conviction where they really believe in themselvesin almost a religious way, and no
(27:37):
matter the hurdles or barriers or thefailures, they dust themselves off and they
get back up and they try tryagain. It sounds ridiculous or easily dismissed,
but it's really very accurate. Ifyou listen to people with any level
of success, there are some peoplethat hate it. Get lucky, and
you increase your odds of life luckby how hard you work and how much
(28:02):
homework and diligence you engage in inadvance. Son Zoo, who wrote the
book The Art of Wars, thatevery battle is won or fought before it's
it's it's your plans. But thenagain, conversely, have Mike Tyson says,
everybody's a plan so they get punchedin the face, which, by
the way, is still one ofthe greatest quotes of all time. Everybody's
got everybody's got to get punched.Yeah, who would have thought, Mike
(28:26):
Socrates Tyson? What's the what's thebest that when you met Magic Johnson?
Did you give you a good pieceof advice? What's the best thing he
said to you? About everything?It was? It was more. It's
not always the words that people usein their communication, it's their body language.
It is the energy that they exude. I was in La when I
(28:47):
met Magic and it was just reallyimpressive to watch how he was so beloved,
and not just beloved by people ofcolor, but I love it of
everybody that was in his vicinity ororbit, and how nice and genuine he
seemed, and how he tried tobridge a grap the gap in any racial
divide that exists. And it's alsohopeful it creates hope, and that if
(29:11):
he can bridge that gap, itshows that that gap of racism and intolerance
and understanding among different cultures and racistcan be bridged. So I would say
that in and of itself, ispresence was really powerful. We ever around
Warren Buffett or any of those guys. I've been around a range of very
(29:33):
powerful or successful people or people inentertainment, and like I said, it
comes back down where we're all peoplethey this is their first time in life
being rich or famous, and whatto do with It's sort of strange when
you know, if you empathize withit, where you go places and everybody
knows who you are, it's gotto be disarming and interestingly to that end,
(29:56):
I just watched and I'm not tryingto a I'm not invested in Netflix
knowingly unless one of my wealth managersis. But I just watched the making
of We Are the World, andone of the things that I found really
interesting was I think Dan Folgerberg wascommenting about Bruce Springsteen pulling up in a
car and people were like the peoplethat we perceived as celebrities when their peers
(30:18):
showed up, they were getting excited. So you get to see the hum
humanity in them and how they're justexperiencing it no similarly to how we experience
things, which makes sense, butwe often forget that if you had the
business opportunity to go in on aninvestment that would be prot of the Shark
(30:41):
Tank, the people that would bethere helping you would either be Warren Buffett,
Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, orElon Musk. And you guys are
going in on something to pitch itto Shark Tank. Which one of those
four guys would you want as apartner to go in on something you knew
it'd go in and get that dealdone the right way if you could choose
(31:04):
Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, ElonMusk, or Jeff Bezos. So I,
for various reasons, would rule thatElon Musk and Donald Trump as outliers.
I then look to Warren Buffett andJeff Bezos, and I find Bezos
to be more relatable because he's closerin age to me than Warren Buffett.
(31:27):
And I also and everything I knowabout Warren Buffett through people that know him
directly and who have written about howinfluential he has been and how they look
at investments, I view him ideologicallyas somebody'd love to learn from. But
I would probably still go the JeffBezos route because I feel he has created
(31:48):
an operating business at a time thatwas more relatable to me. He's closer
in age, and he's going throughlife's challenges no differently than I am,
having gone through divorce and figuring outup because part of how we invest our
money is also function who we areas people too. Now another thing of
(32:09):
relatability. Like you said to Piggybackon that one, marijuana is now an
industry which people are making some prettysignificant money in, and it's now will
become a venue for people to startinvesting in in a business tool talk to
me about the future of this andhow could a person like me, if
I wanted to try to jump onthat bandwagon do that? Or is it
(32:30):
already too late? For a guylike me to kind of do something with
that. No. Actually, Ithink now, first of all, if
anybody who's advising on investing, Icouldn't tell you necessarily you personally or anybody
person without knowing right, what dothey have? Right? And remember that
cash flow analysis conversation, right,and also how they have the rest of
their portfolio invested. It's impossible toget intelligent guidance and isolation of that data.
(32:55):
That said, let's say you hadmoney to invest and you thought cannabis
was the right opportunity. No,I think timing is actually really good.
There is conversation bet descheduling it fromSchedule one to Schedule three, thereby making
it fundamentally federally legal. Right now, it's federally illegal, but legal in
the majority of states, either froma reco medicinal standpoint to the public markets,
(33:22):
in my opinion, based on evaluation, have battered that industry where it's
not overvalued relative to other industries.And there were rumors that President Biden was
going to make certain announcements in themarketplace in connection with his reelection bid in
an effort to gain support. Andit also looks like the majority of Americans
are in support of marijuana as opposedto against it. So let's do this.
(33:51):
Would they say, let's light itup, let's get this party started,
let us look this up. Ron. I appreciate you coming on the
podcast. It's been very casual andfun. If people wanted to kind of
reach out or figure out, youknow, how to get in touch with
you, to possibly do business withor pick your brain. Is there a
place that people can go and tryto do that with you. Certainly,
(34:12):
I'm easily found on the world wideweb, Ron Geffner. The other is
our website at the law firm atss and Sama as an Apple Das and
David as in Idaho SSNSAM dot com. Say this or say this without the
tea dot com. I'm glad youclean that one up for a thank you,
(34:34):
guys, thank you for coming onthe podcast today. Once again,
this has been bargaments. I'm DanLevy. I want to thank Ron Gevni
for coming on the show again.If you could please go ahead and subscribe
to the podcast if you want tohear more stuff like this. If you're
on a platform and you're listening tothis, give us that five star review.
And if there is a review thatyou could write one. Please do
that too. That helps us inthe whole algorithm side of things. Once
(34:58):
again, Ron Gefner, my nameis and Levy. You been listen to
arguments. We'll do it again soon. Take care. M
Arguments is recorded in front of alive studio audience. What's up, everybody,
Welcome in Barguers. My name isDan Levy. Welcome to Bargaments.
Our co host Joe Kelly is doingsome karaoke. He's on assignment. Will
catch him next time. But withme is a very special guest that I
was privileged to have. On.Ladies and Gentleman from Los Angeles. We
(00:22):
have an American attorney, former USSecurities Exchange Commission enforcement lawyer, the SEC
enforcement lawyer. Ladies and Gentleman,ron As Gefner. What's going on?
Ron All's Cohen? Good Dan?Except I am in New York and not
California. Ah, that's okay,go get him. So far, so
so far. If you want toanswer question number two and go all for
(00:43):
nothing, you can go go forbroke, risk it all. Oh,
here's the question for you. GreatestDelhi in New York. So I feel
bad as a Jew in the sensethat I can't say that I know all
the Delis or all the Chinese restaurantsout here, but the one I tend
to frequent, one I do oncertain holidays is Katz's Delhi. Ah.
(01:06):
Katz is a very very very gooddeli, and I have no issues with
it. But if you're going togo to the heart of me and break
into what it is that is madeup of Dan Levy thirty third and third,
there's a deli by the Second,No, No, Second Avenue Deli
is the greatest deli of all time. I've been there. That's a family
(01:29):
stable. Whenever I come to NewYork. By the way, the Matsopol
Super Sargees Deli is also really spectacular. I do love it them. See
in Chicago, where I'm at,delis are not really a thing. We
have Manny's Deli, which is outhere, which is got made famous because
when Obama was a senator, hewould come to Chicago, he would be
in Chicago, he lived around thearea, and a lot of politicians would
go to Manny's Deli, which isa very good deli, kosher style deli.
(01:53):
But it adds it holds no waterto anything I've ever had in New
York. By the way, I'mgoing to la and a couple of weeks
to visit my daughter. She isasked me to freeze pagels and bring them
with me. Oh yes, yeah, it just doesn't compare it really is
the salt of the air for theocean. I'm convinced that's what makes the
New York bagels just so much betteranywhere in Chicago. The food out here
(02:15):
in but don't get me wrong,it's second to none. I love the
food out here. We do thingsin mass quantities. It's glutton it is
pure and gluttony. But the stablesof a guy like me who's spent a
good chunk of his childhood on theEast Coast, you can't do the bagels
out here like you Ken of NewYork Deli's and bagels. It just doesn't
(02:35):
rock like it does in the EastCoast. No, it doesn't. So
taught to me. You are aman of all kinds. You're a man
of all kinds of expertise, andone of the things you are big on
is definitely some financial stuff that's goingon, and especially this time of we
are in twenty twenty four. I'llsay this, and I've been talking to
a lot of people, especially beforewe did this podcast, and I was
(02:58):
like, you know what, Igot a financial guy, a man of
many, many different talents. Youknow what, would you guys want a
lot of people in the radio stationthere's a lot of younger people here,
a lot of the millennials, alot of a younger generation, and it
seems like I assume they were allabout crypto. It's crypto to a point.
But here's here's what the real thebutt of it all is. In
(03:19):
twenty twenty four, people in hertwenty is getting out of high school and
they're starting to become in this world. The world is not set up for
one job for a lifetime anymore.And if you get one job, with
the way society is, with theway the market is, or the way
the inflation is, job cutting,cost cutting. Things have to be in
a situation where we as workers inthis country need more than one income.
(03:44):
And when you hear things about cryptoand the markets, a lot of that's
intimidating for a lot of people.So there's a lot of gig marketing.
But you're a guy who's a masterin the crypto, you're a guy who's
kind of in the know out abouta lot of these things. If you're
going to advise somebody who's a millennial, what is the best path that they
should do to start making themselves financiallyset for their future. And I know
(04:05):
the expectation is with regard to ananswer about money, and I would tell
you that is the carrot and notthe stick. I would say it's education,
it is take your time. Oneof the challenges I've had in investing
is as a lawyer, I amtrained to problem solve, so it's usually
(04:28):
you get a question and you goright into action and resolution. It's also
almost like the story about sometimes thenail is just a nail, where you
have a male talking to women andalways wants to resolve their problems as supposed
to just listen right. People whoare professional investors or traders have a skill
of learning how to sit on theircash and be careful when they invest.
(04:53):
So I would say there is noimmediacy of putting your money to work unless
you know how you're putting it towork. So that's where I go back
to education. It is by wayof example, when I say education,
depending on your job, and ifyou have a job where you're just making
ends meet, this is not goingto be a relatable response initially. But
(05:15):
part of investment is also doing what'scalled cash flow analysis. It's looking at
your expenses and your income and realizingand anticipating how you're going to have to
spend your money. It's investing moneythat you can afford to lose. It's
knowing your time horizon for the investmentand what your goal is. Are you
looking to generate income? Are youlooking for capital gains? What's your risk
(05:38):
tolerance? Diversity of your investments,diversification, how old are you? Age
based investing? All of these thingsweigh into the decision process. And then
it's also just keep your eyes open. It's not uncommon to learn from what
we experience or see. So ifyou see a product as in demand,
then you look at the company manufacturesthe product. Maybe you can catch on
(06:01):
ahead of everybody else. Maybe not. Like for me, I'm not an
economist. I am not an investmentadvisor, a wealth manager. I represent
them as a lawyer. But latelymy sense of fear of the economy keeps
escalating. Why does it keep escalating? I look at various institutions now laying
(06:23):
people off by the hundreds or thousands, Banks, entertainment, a lot of
sectors seem to be affected. Youlook at inflation rates, you look at
what the Fed is doing, andyou don't have to be in a conversy
Okay, interest rates are going up. Go online and google what happens when
interest rates go up. Take aday or two. Make the more you
(06:46):
learn, the more you're going tobe curious to learn more, and then
educate yourself in conversations. So that'sthe best place to start. And if
it's something that you're too lazy about. And what I always told my kids
and my ex wife is money moneycomes with responsibility. If you want to
have money, there's a responsibility thatcomes with it. And if you're gonna
(07:10):
be one of those finger pointers outthere and you want to give it to
somebody else and go buy the seaterpans and hope they know what they're doing.
Great, But I'd rather trust butverify. So even if you're going
to give it to an asset manager, wealth manager, do your homework so
you can ask intelligent questions. Let'sget down more of a brass tax.
Because everything you're saying is one hundredpercent correct, and I agree with all
(07:32):
that. Say, you have akid right now, he's twenty years old,
or he's eighteen years old, he'sgraduating high school. Dad, I'm
not really sure what I want todo. I want to make money.
I want to get involved in something. I want to start setting myself up
for something. What are some stepsthat you would advise a nineteen year old
kid, eighteen year old kid andgetting out high school? Should I go
(07:53):
to college and waste my money ona degree that I'm not sure I want?
Or what can I do right nowthat would start setting me up to
be a financial okay later on inlife? What would you advise? So,
first and foremost, nothing beats ineducation. I understand that there's a
concept that the education is not worththe paper that it's printed on, But
I would also argue that to nothave one puts you at a disadvantage.
(08:16):
And things that I've read in themarketplace indicate that college graduates are in a
significantly greater percentage of income the noncollege grads. So that said, you
can always argue that statistically. Gonnasay, but in what field? Because
I'm in radio and I got adegree, and I would say that for
the most part, for me,the degree that I have in communications I
(08:39):
probably should not have gone to collegefor because right now I am paying off
massive student loan debts at forty threeyears old. As twenty years out of
college with radio going up and down, up and down, and me being
in and out of gigs, andI'm going to put loans on pause.
Even with my degree when I stepout of radio, what else can I
do? There's not a lot outthere for me that I can kind of
(09:00):
go off and do, and havinga degree or not a degree has yet
to really service me in my professionalcareer. Yeah, and I understand why
you're saying it that way, butI would also question you to say,
what else did you learn other thanthe academics of it. Did it influence
your ability or methodology for how yougo about approaching information? Well, I
think I would say that what itdid was it was a vehicle for me
(09:22):
to get an internship to learn somebasics of the industry and get the internship
where I can then get professional experienceto then try to leverage myself into getting
a job. But now the waythings are, with the way life is,
there's vocational schools where I could havegone to an eight month shotgun of
a school broadcasting school, spent aboutnot even a fraction of what I did
(09:43):
on a four year university, andthen I would not have been as in
debt right now as I am sofirst, by way of background, before
I give you further guidance, it'simportant to really understand my bias. Sure,
I went, I went to college, and I went to law school.
I have not suffered through debt.My education was paid for my family.
(10:07):
I did not always want to bea lawyer. My parents offered to
pay for it. They always toldme that I spoke well. They are
immigrants and they perceived it to havevalue. Each of my children have gone
to college and graduated, and Iwould argue that they are applying the knowledge
that they'd gained to their current careers. That said, if somebody's uncertain,
(10:31):
and really it's coming at an economicchallenge, take a gap year, maybe
a gap year or two years work, get a sense of what your appreciation
for what it is you may wantto do. If you're trying to select
careers. And if you and Iwere counseling somebody who's in high school,
not somebody who's eighteen and just graduating, I might sit there and say,
(10:54):
let's go. Have you talk todifferent people of different careers and ask questions
that really are relevant to listen totheir life experience. What did you like,
what did you not like? Whatis your great because I would turn
to you Dan say, maybe collegewasn't the mistake. Maybe the communication major
is a mistake, and might therehave been another path in college that might
have benefited you in ways that wouldhave influenced you differently. Well, I
(11:18):
knew what I wanted to do.I wanted to get into radio. I
wanted to do something in this field. So getting a degree in something else
would have I think, would havechanged the course. So what it is
I was trying to go after.So if I went after, let's say
a marketing degree, then that wouldhave been a whole different path or a
field than what it is I gotinto. It could be but you might
(11:39):
approach distribution of your product, orif you went and had an English major,
you may go about approach writing differently. Which we all write, whether
you think you do or do notall writings. You're all writing texts,
even if you're tweeting your writing.So it's all communicating. You're all communicating,
and it's not just about your career. Who you are as an individual
(12:01):
and your state of mind and yourpsyche and your sense of confidence, and
that also influences your ability to succeedwith the way things are in life right
now. Inflation, how much furtherinto this are we going? How much
higher do you see it going?And how much more do you see it
affecting younger kids that are not reallysure what's going on in the world and
(12:22):
about to take on some of society'sbiggest debts. So I have twenty eight
year old boy girl twins, andI have a twenty four year old,
so they actually serve as a gaugefor some of the questions you're asking me,
because I speak to them continuously.My youngest daughter just moved to Los
Angeles, and one of the conversationsI have with her is how difficult it
(12:46):
has been to afford things, butfor her mother and I they're being able
to help her from time to time, how inflation has impacted or how the
cost of food has gone up butthe cost of gas has gone up,
and and I hear that also frommy other children at times, how challenging
it is that said, I'm sureyou obviously you felt that way because you're
(13:11):
carrying debt load from student wounds.I felt that way at various times of
my life. So inflation, yourguess is as good as mine as to
how far it's going. The inflationnumbers came in higher than expected. I
don't know what economists are predicting onan ongoing basis, and I don't know
what the Fed is going to do, but inflation has definitely impacted the economy
(13:33):
for certain. During the COVID,as rates went down, companies were borrowing
money was referred to as free moneybecause interest rates were so low, and
they felt that they were in aposition to invest it at a higher rate
of return, thereby making a differenceon the rate of return of income against
which they were borrowing it. Sotheir money was making the money. Once
you raise interest rates, it takesaway some of that free money, and
(13:56):
it puts more pressure on a rangeof businesses. And we are starting to
see that effect, which is goingback to what I just said about companies
laying off the risk of mistake comesat a higher cost. Now, gotcha
on the flip side, I'm aman in my forties, probably about a
good twenty years away from retiring,which I don't see myself ever doing.
(14:18):
I just have the basics. Igot a you know, I got the
pension for my union, I gotthe roth Ira, and I got a
couple other things. If a galllike myself in his forties right now is
like, you know what, Iprobably should have been paying more attention to
my retirement and planning for a future. I was too busy trying to do
this. What are some other stepsthat somebody should do with they're a little
bit later in life trying to figureout how to set up themselves for retirement.
(14:43):
So I'll compare it. Also,do you go to the gym?
Do you go to a doctor?Yes? Okay, So it's getting into
habits or patterns. Getting the kindof guy that goes to a gym.
You know what, I'm not outhere to judge you, and you can
be working your fut in a gym. Is sweating it up. It could
just be genetics or a horrible carinjury that affected you. Oh yeah,
(15:05):
nice, nice. So anyway,so the point is saving money. Like
I said, money's an obligation.It comes with obligations part of its patterns
too. So it's if you canbarely make ends meet, and I sound
like a crazy person talking still tryand find a way to save ten dollars
a month. It's about the habit. So like going to the gym,
(15:28):
I start and stop a lot,but getting into the pattern of even if
I go and I have a badworkout, but I'm there for twenty minutes,
thirty minutes, forty minutes, beingthere is half the battle. So
with savings, it's the same kindof concept. Get into a pattern every
month of putting the same money awayand so that you don't spend money that
you don't conceivably believe that you have, and don't even worry about investing in
(15:50):
it initially. If that's a highbar or something that causes you anxiety,
just get in the habit of savingmoney and putting it away and making on
touch. Unless you are in alike extreme life circumstance, we have no
choice. That's the start. Ifyou have if you're young and you have
kids, set up a five totwenty nine plan for your children as early
(16:11):
as possible. If you're setting upa business and you're young, structuring a
business properly so it's tax efficient.All of those things save. If you're
working for a company, see ifthey have an HSA ability where you can
put money away from your paycheck pretax that goes into either debit card or
credit card like structure that when youget your medical bills, you can use
(16:36):
to pay your bills, and it'spre tax money. It's be smarter with
your money. If you have afour oh one K plan, max it
out as best as you can atyour job, especially if they have matching.
If you're in your twenties or thirties, and it seems insignificant to you
relative to what you think you needto retire, I don't care. Still
save money. You're not going tobe worse off that jacket, those shoes,
(17:00):
the restaurant you went to twenty yearsfrom that you're not going to remember.
I like it. I like it. You seem to be a man
who's around a lot of different celebritiesand people of this nature. How often
do you are you advising a lotof these guys too? Like? I
mean you have a picture of MagicJohnson in the background. Yeah, that
(17:22):
is probably one of the better moneypeople I've seen in a long time.
Is that somebody that you advise oris that somebody you want to do business
with? When you when you getin to a room with a person like
that, what is the uh?What is the what is the mission to
accomplish? So my approach to thingsmay actually be different than most other people's
approach. I just go into allmy meetings just trying to get to know
(17:45):
the person I'm meeting with, whetherthey are poor, whether they're wealthy,
whether they're famous, whether they areinfamous, it's irrelevant. People are people
now. The reality is the morewealth you have, possibly the more fame
you have. And you probably haveexperienced this, because I can't imagine you
haven't met people similarly to me.It's they're going to be guarded, and
(18:07):
justifiably so because they get approached bya high number of people, no one
knows what the intentions are. Sothe people that I'm genuinely friendly with that
fit into either of those categories,I just enjoy hearing their life experiences because
they are like you or I,and but for certain facts or circumstances that
occurred, they ended up in theposition they are in. They may have
(18:30):
hoped in dream like ninety nine otherpercent of the people in the world,
but for them it actually occurs.So a lot of times it's right place,
right time, no matter the talent. Because I'm in radio and I'm
a person that is always looking fordifferent streams of income because I don't have
a degree that it would be probablytransferable to a lot of other things.
(18:52):
Come on communication, you have theworld? What else? World of color?
What else can I get myself into? What kind of what is the
market? Something I should learn howto kind of drift into? I want
to I'd like to start doing alittle bit more like side business stuff.
What's a good easy here's a simplething you could do that would start to
generate some good income without having areally invest too much capital into. So
(19:14):
I will answer a question with aquestion, and then I will come to
the answer. I like it.I want to get into radio. I
want to get into podcasting. SoI just drift into it, get a
microphone and start blabbing on YouTube.And a lot of people are a lot
of people are I know? Andhow are the A lot of people doing
well? The X athletes are actuallydoing pretty well. Those athletes. Those
are people that had some sort offame or presence. But if you're you're
(19:37):
somebody who's off the street, yourun into my Walgreens or Walmart. I
get said, somebody up to doa podcast right now with almost no money
involved. But the point is isare they going to toil an anonymity.
So what I was trying to getto is to do anything with any level
of excellence. I don't think youcan go into it casually, gotcha.
That's that was the point I wastrying to make. And what I would
(20:02):
also say is find things you're passionateabout that will help motivate you to get
to excellence. So it could besecurities industry, it could be real estate,
it could be a lot of differentthings. It'd be going into operating
businesses and providing a service in returnfor an interest in the business. It
doesn't always have to be dollars thatyou have to contribute or invest. It
(20:26):
could be contribution of time, contributionof reputation, contribution of knowledge. There
were a lot of different ways todo it. But going back to savings,
going back to the gym. Ifyou go, when you do it
once and you fail and you're like, all right, I'm going to call
it a day, you failed yourself, and I can't imagine you succeeded the
(20:48):
first try. It was a lotof door slamming in our faces. It
was a lot of turn down's,heartbreaks and regret. And if it's something
you really believe in, it reallyrequires conviction, right, I would say,
you know, whatever you do doesn'tmatter, just be the best at
whatever it is you do. Whowould you say is the most shrewdest business
(21:08):
person you've ever been around? Mymom? Really? Yeah, my mom
passed, but and my mom isfirst generation American. Both my parents were
self educated, and she just hadan instinct of curiosity. It's the raw
skills. It's not just becoming abillionaire. I mean, at least not
(21:30):
in my mind. It's nice,right, but there's also a bell curve
that reflects that if you have toolittle or too much money, it's no
bueno. There's a certain sweet spotwhere things are a little bit in stasis
and balanced. Well, I onlyknow one side of that coin, and
if I ever get to the toomuch money, I would love to have
(21:51):
that conversation with you. So let'skeep in touch and maybe we could try
to give you that other side ofthe hump and then we can come back
and out. But you know what, there's too much money. I think
it's for the birds. I gotto get rid of all this cash.
It's burning a whole in my pocket. Now, go ahead, No,
that's funny, But you know what, when you do you'll need me to
help you have a place, alawyer, something else. At the end
(22:15):
of this conversation, I'm gonna needa lawyer for the lawyer, all right,
But if I send you a bill, it's okay. It means you're
important. I was gonna say,that's a nice amount of podcasts. I
can just chalk it up to entertainmentvalue, buddy, So exactly, well,
well, we'll throw another bargument atyou. Because it's the world of
money, it's the world of investment, it's a world of of what of
financial things? So for me,let me ask you this one greatest financial
(22:38):
movie of all time, greatest moneymovie of all time, entertainment or educational.
No in the world of that peoplewould know if you were to ask
somebody a doubt off the street.I really liked and it's a toss.
It was Wall Street, yes,or Wolf of Wall Street, which when
(23:03):
I worked at the SEC. WhenI worked at the SEC, one of
the people that prosecuted, Jordan Belford, was one of my friends. I
remember him coming in and talking tome about as that story broke really that
said it was a the movie wasentertaining good actors and actresses, and it
kept moving along, and on somelevel it made a point. It's sort
(23:26):
of like a lot of movies wherethey go a little overboard and they're trying
to make a point, like barbeing other things about male misogyny. Wall
Street did it with regard to financingsnake oil salesman. That's not bad.
Those two were w the ones Ithink most people would know, the Wall
Street the Wolf of wall Street.There's also was it The Big and Short
is another one that everybody kind oftalks about, and I interviewed. I
(23:49):
interviewed the person from Newburger Berman thatactually the movie is based on who was
a fascinating guy. But I Idid just see a movie on Netflix that
I really like called Dumb mond Me. I saw that as well. Now,
I found it really interesting that theyhad comedic actors playing serious roles.
Seth Seth Roan, I just reallyenjoy I really, I'm a big Seth
(24:12):
Rogan fan, a big job Ienjoy. I enjoy those two as well.
It's fun. It's one of thosethings where you're like, I've only
known them from comedies and stoner movies, and end they'll be in something serious
and you're like, man, Ican't believe I really bought into that.
That's pretty awesome. But they seemlike what makes them likable is that they
seem like people you would want tohang out with. And I think that's
(24:36):
why watching movies are relatable exactly.There's a couple of movies I would throw
on there too that not a lotof people would say, But I would
say that The Founder, the movieabout the McDonald's. I'm not sure if
you saw that one with Michael Keaton, that one. That one is probably
you didn't go into it thinking itwas gonna be a whole money thing,
but it ended up being like areally shrewd and crap a movie where you're
(25:00):
like, ah, there was aguy with money whoknew what he wanted to
do. So for me, thatone is one of the tops. The
Wolf of wall Street I think isthe greatest one because I like where they're
at the restaurant and he's pounding hischest, yes the whole Matthew McConaughey,
I mean, because I mean,I'm just assuming that is what Wall Street
was back in those days, andeverybody's just trying to scam everybody. Let's
(25:22):
get the most, you know,indulgent life. I possibly can all the
drugs, all the women, allthe lobsters, the yachts, the boats,
all that stuff, and I stillthink in a lot of ways some
people are still trying to do that. Well, think about the different cycles
we have. We had that cyclewith all the crypto millionaires, right,
and then people living to excess.So I would pause it to you and
(25:48):
the listeners that when we're in economictimes, at our boom periods, you
will see that behavior. It's humancondition. Everything we're dealing with. We're
people. We all engage in verysimilar behavioral patterns with very few outliers.
If you really look at the popget the disbursement of population. So yeah,
(26:08):
it with crypto, you have itwith every peak in the industry.
There are people that just get caughtup in that lifestyle of that menia.
What do you make of crypto?Is it sticking around? Is it one
of those things that went out toohard and then they they started busting all
those guys with all the uh withall the issues and all the Ponzi schemes
(26:29):
that were going on. Or isit one of those things where if everybody
stays tight. Because I once tothe podcast with a financial expert, and
he told me to go into putsome money into UH, into the crypto
and the the A, the allthe different ones that are connected with that,
and he said, let me justsit there for about twenty years,
put a little bit more and ifyou can, but it's going to be
a game of where he goes upand down, up and down. But
(26:49):
you should pretty much financially do prettywell with it. But then everything's gone
on since I'm not sure if that'sthe way to roll. Yeah, the
concept buy and hold and invest inreal businesses and real companies. While there's
some merit to it conceptually, thereare arguments also that are against it that
(27:11):
if you try and time the market, you're never going to be able to
time it and real quick. Onthe founder, it goes back to what
I said about investing your money.It's really about conviction and it's about following
through on your vision. So RayKroc, if you watch the movie,
but if you listen to any successfulperson, they go into it with high
conviction where they really believe in themselvesin almost a religious way, and no
(27:37):
matter the hurdles or barriers or thefailures, they dust themselves off and they
get back up and they try tryagain. It sounds ridiculous or easily dismissed,
but it's really very accurate. Ifyou listen to people with any level
of success, there are some peoplethat hate it. Get lucky, and
you increase your odds of life luckby how hard you work and how much
(28:02):
homework and diligence you engage in inadvance. Son Zoo, who wrote the
book The Art of Wars, thatevery battle is won or fought before it's
it's it's your plans. But thenagain, conversely, have Mike Tyson says,
everybody's a plan so they get punchedin the face, which, by
the way, is still one ofthe greatest quotes of all time. Everybody's
got everybody's got to get punched.Yeah, who would have thought, Mike
(28:26):
Socrates Tyson? What's the what's thebest that when you met Magic Johnson?
Did you give you a good pieceof advice? What's the best thing he
said to you? About everything?It was? It was more. It's
not always the words that people usein their communication, it's their body language.
It is the energy that they exude. I was in La when I
(28:47):
met Magic and it was just reallyimpressive to watch how he was so beloved,
and not just beloved by people ofcolor, but I love it of
everybody that was in his vicinity ororbit, and how nice and genuine he
seemed, and how he tried tobridge a grap the gap in any racial
divide that exists. And it's alsohopeful it creates hope, and that if
(29:11):
he can bridge that gap, itshows that that gap of racism and intolerance
and understanding among different cultures and racistcan be bridged. So I would say
that in and of itself, ispresence was really powerful. We ever around
Warren Buffett or any of those guys. I've been around a range of very
(29:33):
powerful or successful people or people inentertainment, and like I said, it
comes back down where we're all peoplethey this is their first time in life
being rich or famous, and whatto do with It's sort of strange when
you know, if you empathize withit, where you go places and everybody
knows who you are, it's gotto be disarming and interestingly to that end,
(29:56):
I just watched and I'm not tryingto a I'm not invested in Netflix
knowingly unless one of my wealth managersis. But I just watched the making
of We Are the World, andone of the things that I found really
interesting was I think Dan Folgerberg wascommenting about Bruce Springsteen pulling up in a
car and people were like the peoplethat we perceived as celebrities when their peers
(30:18):
showed up, they were getting excited. So you get to see the hum
humanity in them and how they're justexperiencing it no similarly to how we experience
things, which makes sense, butwe often forget that if you had the
business opportunity to go in on aninvestment that would be prot of the Shark
(30:41):
Tank, the people that would bethere helping you would either be Warren Buffett,
Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, orElon Musk. And you guys are
going in on something to pitch itto Shark Tank. Which one of those
four guys would you want as apartner to go in on something you knew
it'd go in and get that dealdone the right way if you could choose
(31:04):
Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, ElonMusk, or Jeff Bezos. So I,
for various reasons, would rule thatElon Musk and Donald Trump as outliers.
I then look to Warren Buffett andJeff Bezos, and I find Bezos
to be more relatable because he's closerin age to me than Warren Buffett.
(31:27):
And I also and everything I knowabout Warren Buffett through people that know him
directly and who have written about howinfluential he has been and how they look
at investments, I view him ideologicallyas somebody'd love to learn from. But
I would probably still go the JeffBezos route because I feel he has created
(31:48):
an operating business at a time thatwas more relatable to me. He's closer
in age, and he's going throughlife's challenges no differently than I am,
having gone through divorce and figuring outup because part of how we invest our
money is also function who we areas people too. Now another thing of
(32:09):
relatability. Like you said to Piggybackon that one, marijuana is now an
industry which people are making some prettysignificant money in, and it's now will
become a venue for people to startinvesting in in a business tool talk to
me about the future of this andhow could a person like me, if
I wanted to try to jump onthat bandwagon do that? Or is it
(32:30):
already too late? For a guylike me to kind of do something with
that. No. Actually, Ithink now, first of all, if
anybody who's advising on investing, Icouldn't tell you necessarily you personally or anybody
person without knowing right, what dothey have? Right? And remember that
cash flow analysis conversation, right,and also how they have the rest of
their portfolio invested. It's impossible toget intelligent guidance and isolation of that data.
(32:55):
That said, let's say you hadmoney to invest and you thought cannabis
was the right opportunity. No,I think timing is actually really good.
There is conversation bet descheduling it fromSchedule one to Schedule three, thereby making
it fundamentally federally legal. Right now, it's federally illegal, but legal in
the majority of states, either froma reco medicinal standpoint to the public markets,
(33:22):
in my opinion, based on evaluation, have battered that industry where it's
not overvalued relative to other industries.And there were rumors that President Biden was
going to make certain announcements in themarketplace in connection with his reelection bid in
an effort to gain support. Andit also looks like the majority of Americans
are in support of marijuana as opposedto against it. So let's do this.
(33:51):
Would they say, let's light itup, let's get this party started,
let us look this up. Ron. I appreciate you coming on the
podcast. It's been very casual andfun. If people wanted to kind of
reach out or figure out, youknow, how to get in touch with
you, to possibly do business withor pick your brain. Is there a
place that people can go and tryto do that with you. Certainly,
(34:12):
I'm easily found on the world wideweb, Ron Geffner. The other is
our website at the law firm atss and Sama as an Apple Das and
David as in Idaho SSNSAM dot com. Say this or say this without the
tea dot com. I'm glad youclean that one up for a thank you,
(34:34):
guys, thank you for coming onthe podcast today. Once again,
this has been bargaments. I'm DanLevy. I want to thank Ron Gevni
for coming on the show again.If you could please go ahead and subscribe
to the podcast if you want tohear more stuff like this. If you're
on a platform and you're listening tothis, give us that five star review.
And if there is a review thatyou could write one. Please do
that too. That helps us inthe whole algorithm side of things. Once
(34:58):
again, Ron Gefner, my nameis and Levy. You been listen to
arguments. We'll do it again soon. Take care. M
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