September 3, 2024 • 42 mins
In this riveting episode of "Barguments the Podcast", hosts Dan "Bass" Levy and Joe Kelly are joined by former ESPN journalist, TV personality, and current morning news anchor for WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids, George Smith. Together, they delve into some of the most controversial sports moments in history, including the Kobe Bryant rape trial, the Michael Vick dogfighting case, and the Duke Lacrosse scandal. The trio also sparks fiery debates over the Mount Rushmore of sports scandals and the greatest rivalries in sports history. Get ready for a no-holds-barred discussion that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about these iconic events.
Once again, please continue to share the Barguments the Podcast with neighbors and friends, and make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode of the show. And while you are at it, please give us a 5-star rating and share your feelings about Bargumentst by leaving a review on whatever platform you listen to the show.
Once again, please continue to share the Barguments the Podcast with neighbors and friends, and make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode of the show. And while you are at it, please give us a 5-star rating and share your feelings about Bargumentst by leaving a review on whatever platform you listen to the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Arguments is recorded in front of a live studio audience.
What's up, everybody, Welcome in to another thrilling nation of barguments.
I'm your host, Dan Levy, and with me as always,
my trusty co host and an all around family guy,
Joe Kelly. What up, Joe?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Dan? That was a That's very kind of you to
say all the things that make you laugh and cry. Buddy.
Today we welcome former ESPN journalist, TV personality and will
now be seen as a current morning news anchor and
host for Wood TV, THENBC affiliate and Grand Rapids. Ladies
and gentlemen, let's give a warm welcome to my buddy
George Smith. What up, George?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What's going on? Guys? How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You and I met, I would have to say maybe
ten almost twelve years ago in the press box. I
want to say it was in Wrigley Field. It was
either regular or Soldier Field, and I remember seeing you
on TV a couple of times, and you were like
the most approachable guy I'd ever met in a press
box because I was still pretty new, and I remember
just kind of like hanging out with you being lite.
This guy's awesome. I'm a fan of you, and I
(01:03):
love watching you and I like hanging out with you.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I was in Chicago first at ESPN, beginning in two
thousand and three as a correspondent based there, and so
I was in the press boxes and covering you know,
the Bulls and the Bears and all that, and the
Cubs and the White Sox. So I was actually at
ESPN for ten years, from three to the end of
twenty twelve. So I know it was in the early
(01:29):
period of time that we connected in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And that was awesome. Well, let's back itt up. How
did you get into the game of television and all
that stuff, because that is still a very hard thing
for a lot of people to get into these days.
What was your path getting into TV? And then we'll
led you be getting into probably the coolest sports dream
station of anybody with ESPN.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I had an interesting background. I was. I went to
Oberlin College and I wrote for my school paper. We
had a weekly paper, and I wrote news and then
I wrote sports. I did internships in the summertime at
various newspapers as Boston Globe, Oregonian out in Portland, and
then I went to Columbia Journalism School, got my master's
(02:12):
degree and Dan I was a print guy. I was
always into print and that's what I thought I would do.
And I actually worked briefly at the La Times and
then at The Oregonian again in Portland, and I switched
to TV because I went to a party. A friend
of mine was leaving a station in Portland to go
to New York and I went to his goodbye party
(02:35):
and I met the main anchor at this station and
we got to chatting. He said, you know, I think
you'd be good on TV. I'm going to give my
boss a call and connect you guys. And you know,
long story short, I end up getting a chance to
try TV, and I tried it and I never looked back.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That is awesome. And you were in you went to
New York, right, I remember you and I were discussing
that you were on a station in New York City,
which is also an some place to Land as well. Yeah,
I've moved.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I think I'm up to thirteen moves now. Man, I
wouldn't recommend it. But many moons ago after Portland, I
worked in New York City at the local Fox station
Channel five. There for three years. That's when I was
still doing news and then from there I went to
New Haven, Boston, Houston, and then to ESPN.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Very cool. How did you get to ESPN? Because that
one for me. Again, I think anybody that gets into
or a radio or TV broadcasting always has their sight
set on it would be pretty cool if I got
on ESPN.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's funny because I never had thought about ESPN, but
at the time I had an agent who had some
clients there and he connected me with the people at ESPN.
And one of the things that they liked about my
background is that I had done news and sports, that
I had done print and TV. And you know, if
(04:01):
you've seen who they've hired over the years, they you know,
they turn a lot of print guys and print women
into TV people, and they like people, you know, who've
had news backgrounds as well, because so many sports stories
now aren't just scores and highlights. You know, They've got
to do with issues and whether it's steroids or drugs
(04:22):
or you know, court cases, all those kinds of things.
And I think one of the things that they really liked,
again was the fact that I had done news and sports,
and certainly when I was at ESPN, I covered a
lot of the news side of sports. You know, Michael Vick,
dog fighting duke across, the Kobe Bryant rape allegations. I
(04:42):
covered a lot of stories that really were on the
news side of sports, in addition to you know, obviously
covering the NFL and Major League Baseball and college football
and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was gonna say when you went over towards ESPN,
I was like, Oh, this is cool. I actually know
somebody that's starting to do like a lot of the
news reporting of it, and you got involved and probably,
like you just said, top three of the biggest scandals
of sports history with those the Kobe trial, I remember
that being ginormous. The lacrosse, the Doo lacrosse, and Michael
(05:16):
Vick was beyond humong us because that guy was like
super human at one point. So, when you're doing these
kinds of things and they're sending you out of these things,
is it easier for you to cover a story like
that or is it easier to report on stories like that?
Because it's two different things. If you're just reporting on it,
but when you're there and you're watching and you're getting
into the nitty gritty of these things, how tough is
(05:37):
it for that.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think what you have to do is just you've
got to put aside your you know, personal feelings about
anything and just dig and try to come up with
sources and come up with good information. I mean I
covered each of those cases for probably at least a
year or more each because those are ongoing cases. And
you know, I'll take the Duke case for an example.
(06:03):
I mean, I went back and forth from Chicago to
Durham I don't know fifteen plus times every time there
was a court hearing I was down there. They sent
me down there several times just to kind of dig
around and see what I could find out on background
and try to come up with interesting stories and interesting angles.
(06:24):
And I mean I do remember early on in that
case feeling like the you know, like the allegations weren't
true because I had connected with a lot of people
in the area, you know, not just lawyers, but people
who knew the accuser, and it just didn't seem like
that case was gonna was going to hold up. And
(06:45):
ultimately it did not. Obviously it took months and months
for that to come out, but it was one of
those cases where you know, from the beginning, if you
had been on the ground in the Dourham area and
really digging around. There were some flags that raise questions
about whether the allegations were true.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So when all that came out, and then, like I said,
there's been even documentaries now in thirty different thirties on
how pretty much the entire country turned on that team,
and then it was the other way, everybody just kind
of forgot about it. Was there anything in you that's like, man,
I hope these guys it somehow comes out that they
weren't as bad at it as it is and the
hopefully the reputation could come back to that program. Or
(07:26):
were you just like I could see these guys doing it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
What I remember from being there at the beginning was
I actually got to talk to a number of players
kind of on background, and essentially they said that there
was you know, there was an argument. They even said
that there were some racial slurs and bad language and
stuff like that, but they were adamant that there was
(07:54):
no rate. And from the very beginning, every guy that
I talked to on the team said the same thing.
But I think it was the perfect storm of you know,
all these different things that were going on. There was
there was race, there was class, there was these so
called privilege lacrosse players, and a young black woman making
(08:15):
the allegations. So there's this perfect public relations storm. And
I think what happened was everybody you know, wanted to
I wanted to come out and try to make this
thing go away, and and and the response I think
was quick and maybe too quick. I think maybe the
(08:36):
administration didn't take the time to investigate the allegations and
to really dig in. I think public perception is what
drove that case.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Now we switched over to Kobe Bryant. I am I'll
admit I am a giant Kobe Bryant fan. He was
one of the coolest guys I ever was around and
was able to cover during my time of being around
Chicago sports, and I always enjoyed him. But I do
know that when I started doing these podcasts and helping
out somebodies in some broadcasters in Chicago around the twenty
(09:10):
ten area, I was helping out with a guy named
check Coming and Lester Munson, and I remember Lester and
I spoke very candidly about the Kobe Bryant trial, and
his feelings were the other way. He was saying he
saw all the evidence, he saw the things that went
into that trial and things that were kind of being dismissed,
and it was just kind of, you know, because the
(09:32):
accuser had so many flaws, they were able to kind of,
you know, pretty much throw it out. But he said
in terms of what he thinks happened, he thinks it happened.
So again, another case. And I'm sure I'm not sure
how closely you are with that or if you were
right there with him, But was any of your opinion,
even though you say you try to be as you know,
unbiased about it as you are, is there a part
(09:52):
of you that's like, WHOA, I think somebody got away
with something here.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You know, I don't know if i'd be as strong
as that, but I I can say that there were
a lot of issues with the accusers background and that
she was going to be difficult for her to hold
up on the witness stand. And so I think ultimately
that's why, you know, they settled the civil case and
the criminal case was dismissed. But that was another case
(10:18):
that I covered, you know, for more than a year,
flying back and forth to to you know, the Veil
area and covering that case. And I remember, actually I
was at the Olympics and in Greece, and the Olympics ended,
and the trial was supposed to start shortly after the
(10:40):
two thousand and four Olympics, And I remember talking to
my parents on the phone before I got on the
plane and say, you know, I don't know if you saw,
but they settled the Kobe case. And I said, no,
I hadn't, hadn't. I had been traveling and gone to
Egypt to see the Pyramids, and I wasn't paying attention
too much and then found that the case had been settled.
(11:02):
So ended up not obviously going back to Colorado again
after that. But I'll tell you an interesting story, Dan,
I was, you know, I covered the Olympics several times,
summer games, covered the men's basketball team, specifically for USA,
and in eight I tried to get a one on
one with Kobe, and you know, I think his people
(11:25):
were really wary, wondering if there'd be questions about what
happened in Colorado. But you know, this was whatever three
or four years later, and you know, my focus was
to talk about playing for Team USA, what it meant
to him, what it meant to him to play with
all these other NBA All Stars, and you could just
(11:47):
tell when when he first came to meet me. I
think we met at a I think it was at
a Nike facility in Beijing. His body language just was,
you know, he was concerned. You could tell that I
was going to go and ask him about the Duke Cross.
I'm sorry, dud Across about the rape allegations, but that
had been so far in the past that you know,
(12:10):
that wasn't really what was relevant at the time. We
wanted to talk about again him playing for Team USA,
and you could just see him breathe a sigh of
relief after the interview because you know, it was all
about basketball and the president and wasn't about the pass.
So h He actually interviewed with me several times after
that in different places and was always very accommodating.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's cool. And the Michael vic case, what was that
one like? Because I've said a lot of cases and
we'll get to the argument itself. And what was the
I mean, Prepace said what the Mount Rushmore of of
Chicago or sports rival or sorry, the Mount Rushmore of
sports scandals? But I remember vividly being like Michael Vick
(12:54):
at the top of his game. It's almost like Mike
Tyson like it stopped for him. His career was never recovered.
He was on track to probably be one of the
greatest quarterbacks we've ever seen, and just skill and the
type of momentum he had going was so awesome that
to watch it in real time, all that get put
(13:15):
out and all that get cut short. He had a
bit of a comeback with Philadelphia, but that had been
something to kind of watch them far and just be like, damn,
it's ending for you. This sucks.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
That was another case that I spent probably a year
going back and forth to Virginia to cover, you know,
not only what was going on in the community, but
every time there was some sort of a court hearing
or appearance. And I mean, I think the dog fighting
itself was more common than people think in certain areas
(13:48):
in Virginia. It was something that you know, wasn't uncommon,
but obviously that issue it's extremely sensitive, and I think
it absolutely changed his career and ruined his career because
he was associated with it. But just being down there
(14:10):
and you know, kind of digging around and and and
reporting on what was happening in the area and was
you know, dog fighting was something that was part of culture.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Interesting. Interesting. Now you go from all these very serious,
hard hitting cases, then you like leav ESPNA and you
start doing like the morning TV shows kind of deals,
like where you at a different places and it's more fun.
That Was that a total Was that something you were
looking to do, like because you were involved in some
really serious stuff. Was it kind of one of those
(14:45):
things where you're like, all right, I'm done trying to
get this investigative, I'm done trying to get this serious
and sports. I want to have some fun. Or was
it just kind of the the next step in your career.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, I'll tell you what I've done news and sports
since I left ESPN, But I don't know if you remember.
I spent almost three years in Chicago twenty fifteen to
twenty eighteen when I was at Fox, and I'll tell
you that was that was one of the best UH
rides in sports, you know, Obviously covering the Cubs World
(15:16):
Series run with something that I'll always remember. I got
to go to every single home and away game throughout
that World Series and that was I think one of
the highlights of my career for sure, just getting to
be around. You know that that history. Yeah, something that
exciting and something that you know, really inspired the whole city.
(15:38):
I mean even white Sox fans have to give it
up a little bit, right, It was exciting for the city.
I did get to cover the white Sox, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, white socks will never say it too.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
History is history, right, I mean, you got you got
to give it up for history. So but but sports
is more fun. Let's let's just be clear. Sports is
a lot more or fun to cover. And you know,
even though that there are cases where you know, you've
got the news east side of what's going on in
sports and the scandals and things like that. I mean,
when you're you're sitting in a press box, you know,
(16:14):
at rigging the field or ats older field or something
like that and thinking, hey, I'm getting paid to be here.
It's pretty cool to be assigned to cover sports for
a living. And it's certainly for the most part, more
positive than covering news, which obviously is very negative.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's funny that you bring that up, because that was
a question I had for actually both of you guys,
and the question that would be would be should sports
journalists be able to weigh in on some social issues
during broadcasts because like you said before, and I believe
this too, that in the game of news, when it
comes to news reporting and whether it's radio or television,
(16:54):
the game of news, when you go to the sports area,
I always feel like that's the toy department. That's the
one time where news takes a break and you can
just be sports. Let's have some fun, let's talk, you know,
let's get our brains out of you know, the serious
stuff that's going on in life. Let's let's lighten the
mood a little bit. But with the last four years
of the pandemic and social media the rise, I feel
(17:16):
like everything is being blended together, and I kind I
personally feel like I wish sports would just kind of
just be a place for people to be entertained, be relaxed.
It's not that serious one in sports unless something involved sports.
Of course, I have the stuff that you've done and
you cover. That's a different situation. But I've when I
even when I watch like these these programs, and I
(17:38):
watched you know, Stephen A. Smith, and I watch all
the different TV show the hot takes and all that stuff,
and every time there's a political point or there's a hey,
let's talk about a social thing. For me, it's just
like there's other people getting paid for that. I just
want to I'm going to you to not have those conversations.
What do you guys think, Well, I'll.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Tell you some news stations when when the sports stories
become newsier, they will have the news people cover it
and not the sports people. I've seen that at different
stations where I've worked in the past. But then again,
I think you know, in some of your bigger markets
that you're in Chicago or Boston or New York, you know,
(18:19):
those reporters, those sports reporters are going to be expected
to ask those questions, you know, when things get tough,
or there's some scandal, or there's something that's you know,
off the field that that's relevant. So you know, But personally,
I I don't like to give my opinion. You know,
I'm not a talk show host, so I don't really
(18:41):
put my opinions out there. I just try to cover
the story and get the facts and get it right
and you know, and and present as balanced the story
as I can. But certainly, I think uh sports on
TV and radio has gravitated towards a lot of opinion
and personal and I think even at ESPN there's a
(19:03):
lot more personality driven stuff and not as much you know,
digging deeper reporting type of stuff as it used to be.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And I get it, and I get the natural evolution
of it, because you know, news can also be consumed
in so many different ways than it used to be.
When you were doing this stuff, social media and the
way the Internet was and the way word traveled, you
guys were still just as good as what, like what
Twitter and all that stuff is. But right now, in
order to get people to consume content, you got to
have people talking about hot topics. And that's where I
(19:35):
think it does get dicey. For me at least, I'm
always like, I don't think you need to bring that
up in order to have this conversation be as electric
as it should be. But I understand both both sides
of it, just because if you can keep eyes on
your product, do what you gotta do. But I agree,
at the end of the day, I mean, if you're
going to have a newsy thing, I'd rather hear from
an expert or somebody who is a little more incredible
(19:58):
than just you know, ex athletes that are talking about
something where you're like, I don't know if I want
to hear it from you. I mean, I'd rather trust
a different source, and I know where to find that source,
and it's not here, So I much rather just figured
it out that way, just in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one, but
I would say that, you know, it's been my experience
working I work in sports in Boston, I worked in
sports in Chicago and obviously at ESPN, and certainly, you know,
when you're at that level, your bosses are expecting you
to go in and ask the questions that need to
(20:36):
be asked and not be afraid, you know, to get
somebody mad at you, or you know, to be snapped
at by a coach or a player. That's part of
the job. So I think you you know, you just
have to go and do the job, and sometimes it's
not always pleasant. Given the things that happen off the field.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Now, considering you've been involved in a lot of, like
I said, some some of the probably the biggest scandals
we've seen in modern history. You were on a TV
channel of ESPN, who does a lot of documentaries on
some really cool topics a lot of these thirty for thirties.
Is there a topic that you've kind of done or
been a part of that you wish they would do
another do like a thirty for thirties or a thirty
for thirty that is missing right now in terms of
(21:16):
what you covered, because I know there's topics and sports
that I would love to see get covered. I still
think there's a good question.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I can't think of one off the top of my head,
but that's a good question. They've spent a lot of
really interesting in depth One.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
The two that I I think I would like to
see is Number one is it's Reggie Lewis from the
Boston Celtics who died of well, they say heart failure,
but then there's people that'd say they were his drugs evolved.
And then they even did like a little documentary of
him in Boston for their their NBC Sports affiliate out
there was years ago, but I guess they're whoever his
(21:48):
girlfriend was or his fiance at the time, had a
big thing going on with the family, and they don't
even know where he's buried right now. So there's a
lot of questions I have about what happened with Reggie
Lewis and that kind of stuff, and I think somebody should, really,
I know it's been beaten to death. I'd like to
see a much bigger documentary and figure out what is
(22:08):
going out with Pete Rose. Did he actually bet on
the team? Did he not? Let's get down to the
nitty gritty. People want to know exactly. Can we dig
some things up that are more evident if you should
be in the Hall of Fame or not, because that
will not go away until somebody says it out loud
he's permanently gone or we'll get him in. So I
would love for somebody to just do a one good
(22:31):
maybe in a four or five part documentary on that guy,
and just let it all come out. There's there's one
on Netflix right now. I'm not sure how, but I
know there's a there is one out. There's one on Netflix.
I've heard of that one. But I really want someone
to just be like, like, send George, you go out
there and do some connect to get some other real
those journalists from back in the day, some Lester Munson
(22:52):
and just hammer that out and like, all right, let's
let's get some real evidence out here, because there's way
too many people that are that have a pin on it,
and I will say I'm not as educated about it
as I would like to be when it comes to it.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, that's you know, that's a topic that that seems
to live on forever. And I will tell you I'm
one who thinks Pete Rose should be in the Hall
of Fame. You can yell at me if you want.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I agree with you for what he accomplished and for
what it is that he did. I still think it's
I don't like the system of how people get into
Hall of Fames, and and I've even had the discussion
that I think at some point they should do all it.
It wasn't an the fact that the Hall of Fame
is an actual business and they're trying to get people
to come there and spend money. I think they should
do it like once every five years and really tighten
(23:36):
up the criteria of how somebody gets in a Hall
of Fame, not just hey he had really good stats,
but you know, this person had five championships and three
cy Young's or whatever it is, and like, really get
it down to the nitty gritty. But if we're talking
about one of the most one of the one of
the few athletes that had the biggest impressions on a sport.
You can't have a Hall of Fame without that guy
(23:57):
in it, even though you may have been on the team.
Maybe he didn't, I don't know, but what he did
as a player and a coach, it deserves, it deserves
a spotlight. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, he's the all time hit king and I'll always
remember him for that. And I always like the way
that he played that he always hustled and played hard
every day. And you know, look, I might be wrong
to think that he should be in the Hall, but
that's what I think.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Joey Jojo. When it comes to Pete Rose, does he
belong in the Hall of Fame? For you?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I'm gonna say no, because, uh, I mean, I'm pretty
sure he did. But I think the bigger deal was
that he he had this like really bad relationship with
the commissioners at the time, and all the commissioners kind
of you know, protect like or to protect the reputation
of the ones that came before them. So you know,
bugs Budd Sealier is a big cure. So he was
(24:47):
never a lot of man, now, you know, Manford's kind
of the same way.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And as far as the know, uh, the Hall of
Fame is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Separate, like you know, MLB doesn't ultimately decide who goes in,
like you know, but you know, obviously the you know,
sports right put them.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah no, no, no, I mean, I mean I didn't
mean it that way. I mean, like sports writers get
them in, and there's other ways for guys to get
in as well. But I guess ultimately, if the commission
want to get him, and he could, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
He could, he could, like if he kind of gives
you okay, then you know, the because the baseball writers,
especially more than I think any other sport, like you know,
they're very like they figure, you know, they think it's
up to them to protect.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
The I don't know, uh, the herold into the game,
the reputation, right.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So they're like they call themselves like the gatekeepers, you know,
so you know, as long you know, as long as
they're kind of in charge, I don't think he's ever
gonna go. Yeah, so I don't I don't think he
should be in just because he lied about it for
so long. But I mean it's a it's a good.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Topic, then I'll throw another topic gets you, guys, as
long as we're getting on some scandals and things like that,
Amount Rushmore, the biggest sports scandals of all time? Who
is who is on your guys' top four for Mount Rushmore?
And I can definitely give you guys mind first if
you'd like. But I've been kind of thinking about it
as well. Do you have a top four of all
(26:08):
time Mount Rushmore of scandals and sports?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Top four is tricky? But I will say this, I
think steroids in baseball is huge, Yes, one, oh for sure.
So many things, so many different levels, and I mean,
you know, just as an aside the things that I covered,
I mean cross case was one of the you know,
big sports scandals of the last twenty years, and certainly
(26:39):
the Cobe case and Michael Vick as well. But I
think steroids in baseball might be number one. But you
could probably change my mind with a strong art.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I will say this that in terms of the steroids scandal,
we can almost kind of laugh about some of it
because a lot of it was very hearsay. There were
guys that wrote books about it, like jose Can Sego
wrote a book, and guys were on stuff, but nothing
nobody ever came right on and said I took steroids.
They except for I think a Rod said he accidentally
(27:11):
was given something, or a lot of guys say they
were accidentally doing something that wasn't supposed to but then
they did those stupid I think we can all laugh
about those congressional hearings where all of a sudden, you know,
Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English and need an interpreter.
And I mean, George, you and I were around Sammy Sosa.
He never had problem speaking English before. And those guys
(27:31):
were all at a congressional hearing say that they did
take steroids of baseball, and it was like the weirdest
circus that was around these guys. And to be honest,
I really never cared about the steroids. I mean baseball
needed that. I mean pun intended to shot in the
arm to get back from that strike, and that home
run contest between Sosa Maguire was one of the few
things that brought it back to like a social light.
(27:53):
So I never had an issue with it. I just
thought it was funny that they dragged these guys out
all because one guy the balco and all, you know,
these guys were saying that they had you know, we
know we have proved that, you know, these are clients
of ours, but nobody ever like got downright busted for.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know, well, I'll tell you what I remember about
the summer where Sosa maguire we're matching a home run
for home run. I was a sportscaster in Boston. What
was that around ninety eight, right, yeah, And and you
know we're showing Sosa and McGuire highlights every night. You know,
we're Boston Sports station, and obviously Boston Sports was the focus.
(28:32):
But but that was such a big story, injecting energy
into into baseball at the time when it really needed.
That was, you know, one of the biggest sports stories
going on. And I just remember every scene, like every
night we were showing the highlight of one of those
guys hitting a home run or multiple home runs, and
so scandal aside, it certainly injected energy into baseball that
(28:56):
was badly needed, very much.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So, Sholly, who do you got on your four If
I were to give you a mount rushbore of top
sports scandals, I know it's you know, been a long time.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I still think the the nineteen nineteen White Sox and
you know, the you know, the uh getting paid to
throw the World Series is up there.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
The Black Sox is definitely out there. Yes, yes, for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
And I'm not sure so much as scandal scandal. But
something that's you know, uh so interesting is you know,
Michael Jordan retiring from basketball to go play baseball.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
That one is a very interesting one, George, what is
I mean, everybody's got an opinion on that one, whether
or not they say he was not told to take
a break from basketball. What do you what do you
think of that one? Just uh, completely opinion based. What
are you what are your thoughts on the Jordan retiring
that year?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I don't know if maybe I'm naive. I don't
know if I believe all all the rummers. I think
it wasn't great for basketball him being away to open
the door for another team to win a couple championships.
But yeah, I don't know if if I buy into it.
(30:06):
I've seen a lot of stuff, I've read a lot
of stuff. Call me naive, but I'm not sure I
buy into the rumors.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I am right there. I go back and forth with
it because it was it was done so quickly, like
it happened they knew exactly the guys were and it
was just like that was it. And then all of
a sudden he retired and just happened to come back
like he never if you've watched the Last Dance, And
it's always been on my mind too, that every time
they've talked about Michael Jordan, whenever there was a challenge,
(30:35):
he stepped up to the plate, wanted to do it,
wanted to do it. He was all in. He was
all in. But it was just kind of funny that
baseball became that sport where he wanted to do it.
He was actually striving and trying to get better. Then
he just left like it was like it wasn't like
one of those things where like, not only am I
going to be in baseball, but I want to be
like an All Star and then strive to do that.
It was just there's a strike, come out. So I
(30:55):
thought that was kind of weird where we talk about
the most competitive human being in the entire world world
that whenever there's a challenge he wants to go through it.
He went and did all the you know, minor league
baseball and rode on the bus and all these things,
and the minute there was a strike. He was like,
I'm gonna go back to basketball. I just thought that
was kind of a little more a little lackluster of
(31:16):
a story.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Ending for me, just as the quick as side of
all the things I've gotten to cover over the years
and sports I have never covered Michael Jordans. I've never
met Michael Jordan one of the few big name pro
athletes I've not had a chance to meet.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I've met him a few times just being around him
out here, and it's, like I said, for me, because
I'm just such a big fan, I saw that aura
that Allen Iverson and those guys talk about where it
looks like he's floating whatever I've seen him in real life.
I'm always like, oh my god, that's that is him.
But I mean it's one of those things where, like
I said, I mean, I there's I mean, he denies
until the cows come home, and you know he was
(31:53):
doing a lot of gambling, and there's a lot of
stories of people like gambling with it. But I don't.
I don't. I still don't see, like said the commissioner
of the NBA, with all that money and with that
that big meal ticket of him and say, hey, why
don't you take a walk for eighteen months. I don't
see anybody turning down money like that, So that's that
would be it for me. But for me, by four,
I don't know if we can consider O. J. Simpson
(32:14):
the top sports scandal. Yeah yeah, but I mean he
wasn't like playing then, so it's tough to do it.
But so I kind of between him and Tiger Tiger Woods,
and for me is also one that was up there
too because he was still kind of getting back from
injuries and he was actually on a really good path
to coming back and and tackling some of the greatest
(32:34):
of all time feats that golf could have. So for
anything that was like during sports like during their career,
I would say, I mean Tiger Woods was right there,
but oj Is if that one fits, I would put
that number one. It definitely fit. Yeah, that counts for sure.
Those for sure for me will do it. So I
would I will put that on there. And the Mike Tyson.
(32:56):
Mike Tyson, like I said before that rape trial, that
that whole thing, he went through it again, just like
Michael Veg those two guys, I mean, Mike Tyson in
my book, I don't Like I said, I never watched
Muhammad Ali, I never saw old boxers, but I've never
seen anybody as scary as Mike Tyson. For those that
before he went to jail, he was the create the coolest,
(33:17):
scariest boxer I've ever seen in my life. And I
don't see anybody beating Mike Tyson adding not going to jail.
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Now that you mentioned Oj Scamble, that seems to me
maybe that Trump's uh steroids in baseball. I think.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Again one we can come up with. I would say
sports athletes. He was definitely the one. But it didn't
happen during the sports. So that's the only reason why
I kind of say I footnote that one, because it
didn't happen during Like it wasn't like he killed her
or allegedly killed his wife that somebody would report it
was like he did that during him playing. It was
I mean, he was already an actor at that point,
(33:54):
So that's why I kind of I'll put a footnote
one for that one. Now to switch the gear, what
would you guys say, because sports is you know, rivalries,
we're talking about different ways of sports coming back, who
would you guys pick as the greatest rivalry in American
sports of all time and Georgia. It feels like you've
been in the market for a lot of these.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Well, I'm going to give you two, and one may
be my East Coast bias because I grew up in
New York City, but I'll go Yankees Red Sox.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, for one of them. That's a huge one.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah. Yeah, that's one that that's always heated and continues
to this day, has got a lot of rich history.
And I don't know, I think Lakers Celtics is another
one that always grabs me. And I just read Jackie
McMullen's book When the Game was Ours about Larry Bird
and Magic Johnson, and maybe that's fresh in my mind
(34:48):
and that's got me thinking about the Lakers Celtics rivalry book.
But certainly in the eighties that was a huge one
in Celtics Lakers. You know, great low, great story.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
And I am not in the habit of promoting other
podcasts on this podcast, but Jackie McMullen has one on
that called Icons where they talk about it's pretty much
all basketball. If you're an NBA nerd like I am,
and want to hear stories and things like that. That
is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. It's
well produced and it's awesome. So I'm not sure if
you're a if you're listening to arguments, I want to
(35:21):
hear some good stuff like that. She has definitely wanted
to check out it. Again, I'm not in the habit
of promoting other people's products when they're not paying me
to do so, but that one is even I'm like, damn,
I want to make a podcast like that one they
do so that one and I totally, I totally understand
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes, when I was in Boston as a sports anchor,
we used to do a Sunday night sports show and
you know, kind of wrap up of what was going
on during the week, and Jackie would often be a
guest on our show, and I mean, what a treat
was to have her in there talking about pretty much anything.
She's so dialed in and she's got such great take,
(35:55):
So that was always a lot of fun to have
Jackie coming and beyond the.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Show, and she had is I mean when I always
say that she has every source in the world, but
her source is the source I talked to Larry Bird.
I always, I always, I've always liked that. Dan Patrick
did a lot of that, like when he was on
the radio and you know, in Terrestrial and when he
was on ESPN. But it would always be like, you know,
Alex Rodriguez is the news for steroids, He'll be joining
(36:20):
us at new and I'm always like, oh, that's how
do you how do you beat? And Jackie's the same way, like, hey,
we heard the story of Larry Bird. Blah blah blah
what I just got on the phone Larry Bird And
he went into telling me. I'm like, well, that's that's
the source. You're the only one that names the source,
and it's the source. So I've always whenever she talks,
I'm like, she knows what she's talking about because that
(36:40):
person is talking to her. It's amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And a kind person too, just a great, great person.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm sure Joey Jojo, if I were to throw at you,
who do you think is the greatest rivalry in American sports?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Oh, I'd like your Celtics, because, like, you know, the
NBA wasn't like you know, they're what they're putting games
on TV on tape delay. They weren't showing live games yet,
and and that that rivalry forced the NBA to go live,
and that changed, it changed the modern NBA. So that one,
for sure, I would almost have to do this argument
with and almost say it's kind of like that, uh
(37:14):
you know what, you know, if you were to put
a you know something on this hot dog, say any
or if you're going to dib your French fries in this,
what do you did it in?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Anything? But catch up the laguers and Something's rivalry is
so humongous you always have to say, if not that one,
what else is the biggest one? Because the leaguer is
Something's won to me, Like you said, it was everything.
It revitalized the NBA magic and Larry, I mean the
whole thing is. I mean, even when they when it's
not around and they're there and the teams aren't very good,
you're kind of talking about it. And then in twenty
(37:43):
ten when they got good again, it like it rekindled.
But I would actually throw it as a second one.
I know, Boston and New York, the Yankees and the
Red Sox and anything that has to do with those
two teams, I'll give you a duke in North Carolina.
College basketball good one, Yeah, because those two teams and
those two heritages and you spend time in Durham yourself.
I mean, even when those teams aren't very good, that
(38:05):
is like, you know, I feel like nobody tunes in
for college basketball anymore until right around that February time
leading up to I'm gonna put some money on a
on a on a bracket. But when those two tas play,
are like, Oh, I wonder who won or who's uh,
you know, who's good coming out of that team that
I'll probably see the NBA. So for me, I like
to watch those two to be honest. By the way,
(38:27):
I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Thought about that one. That's that's a great one in
North Carolina. And that's actually another missing chapter of my resume.
I've never seen one of those games live, so I'd
like to put that on my bucket.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I haven't got a chance to see a lot of
college games live, and I've a couple of times Duke
played at the United Center. I was able to see
like a coach k game and I was like, Oh,
that's this is you feel that you feel that guy?
He also had a I saw him a couple of
times when he would whenever they would play a Chicago
tournament and Duke would come in. They'd be in a
press box in a Bulls game and I would see
(38:58):
them and I'd be like, oh my god, this so
there's an order. There's not an order to that guy too.
Even though I was never a big new thing growing up,
you still admire that guy for exactly who that guy is.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Let me tell you a quick Coach K story. I
obviously covered him when he was coach of the Olympic
team and I went down to Durham to interview him
before one of the Olympic games and he, you know,
gave me an hour of his time. He was great.
Uh And then all the you know during the Olympics,
you know, ESPN is not allow allowed to take cameras
into venues, so you have to meet the team at
(39:32):
the hotel after the game. And normally they give us
a couple of players and Coach K would talk to
us post game every day because we couldn't interview them
at the venue. Uh. So he was always very accommodating,
always great. We'd always get to talk to a couple
of players when when they got back to the hotel.
And then when I left ESPN, I had developed a
pretty good relationship with some of the people at Duke,
(39:54):
obviously covering the little cross case for so long. UH.
And following that, UH, coach K sent me a handwritten
note wishing me well when I left ESPN and and
started anchoring news in Cleveland, and his line was your
trustworthy coach K.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Wow, that is awesome. That's great. That is a very
cool story from your times covering basketball and the Olympics.
Any good stories out of those, out of those times
you were out there, You know what, I.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Think, it's just amazing that the guys really were passionate
about playing for the USA. I think, to a man,
you know, I covered eight in twenty twelve when they
won gold, and you know, Lebron, Kobe and Dwayne Wade,
all those guys, Chris Bosh, they loved playing for their country.
(40:48):
And it's just it was cool to see how excited
they were to represent the USA. And I guess it
was what four that we got bronze. We didn't win
the goal and four, right, and so eight was a
big campaign. Then you know, let's get this thing back
on track. You know, you've got coach k in place.
You've got, you know, the best players in the world
(41:10):
on the team, and it was maybe it wasn't the
dream team of ninety two, but it was certainly certainly
exciting to cover. And I think just the energy that
the guys had and the excitement to play for the
USA was something that stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And were you there in two thousand and four when
they lost?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I was there, but I didn't cover them as much.
I Actually it's interesting, Lisa Salters and I were both
there in four and so we kind of split duties
covering the basketball team, and then in eight and twenty
twelve I ended up covering a lot more men's and
a little bit of women's, but certainly the men's basketball
(41:51):
team quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That is awesome. That is awesome with George again, I
gotta have you on forever. You're You're just fun of
time to I appreciate you taking out the time and
hanging out with us on this on a Sunday morning.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Thank you, my pleasure. Guys, Thanks very much.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
All right for Joe Kelly, my name is Dan Levy.
You've been listening to Arguments our thanks to George Smith
for jumping on with us. And again, if you or
anybody who know is into this podcast and wants to
go ahead and share with friends, family, any like minded individuals,
and if you want to go ahead and contribute to Arguments,
we have a Facebook group called Arguments where we're always
arguing or hatching out different types of topics and if
(42:29):
you throw out a good one, we'll put it on
this podcast. So that's our treat to you once again
for Joe Kelly, my name is Dan Levy. You've been
listening to Arguments. We'll do it again soon.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
See y
Arguments is recorded in front of a live studio audience.
What's up, everybody, Welcome in to another thrilling nation of barguments.
I'm your host, Dan Levy, and with me as always,
my trusty co host and an all around family guy,
Joe Kelly. What up, Joe?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Dan? That was a That's very kind of you to
say all the things that make you laugh and cry. Buddy.
Today we welcome former ESPN journalist, TV personality and will
now be seen as a current morning news anchor and
host for Wood TV, THENBC affiliate and Grand Rapids. Ladies
and gentlemen, let's give a warm welcome to my buddy
George Smith. What up, George?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What's going on? Guys? How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You and I met, I would have to say maybe
ten almost twelve years ago in the press box. I
want to say it was in Wrigley Field. It was
either regular or Soldier Field, and I remember seeing you
on TV a couple of times, and you were like
the most approachable guy I'd ever met in a press
box because I was still pretty new, and I remember
just kind of like hanging out with you being lite.
This guy's awesome. I'm a fan of you, and I
(01:03):
love watching you and I like hanging out with you.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I was in Chicago first at ESPN, beginning in two
thousand and three as a correspondent based there, and so
I was in the press boxes and covering you know,
the Bulls and the Bears and all that, and the
Cubs and the White Sox. So I was actually at
ESPN for ten years, from three to the end of
twenty twelve. So I know it was in the early
(01:29):
period of time that we connected in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And that was awesome. Well, let's back itt up. How
did you get into the game of television and all
that stuff, because that is still a very hard thing
for a lot of people to get into these days.
What was your path getting into TV? And then we'll
led you be getting into probably the coolest sports dream
station of anybody with ESPN.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I had an interesting background. I was. I went to
Oberlin College and I wrote for my school paper. We
had a weekly paper, and I wrote news and then
I wrote sports. I did internships in the summertime at
various newspapers as Boston Globe, Oregonian out in Portland, and
then I went to Columbia Journalism School, got my master's
(02:12):
degree and Dan I was a print guy. I was
always into print and that's what I thought I would do.
And I actually worked briefly at the La Times and
then at The Oregonian again in Portland, and I switched
to TV because I went to a party. A friend
of mine was leaving a station in Portland to go
to New York and I went to his goodbye party
(02:35):
and I met the main anchor at this station and
we got to chatting. He said, you know, I think
you'd be good on TV. I'm going to give my
boss a call and connect you guys. And you know,
long story short, I end up getting a chance to
try TV, and I tried it and I never looked back.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That is awesome. And you were in you went to
New York, right, I remember you and I were discussing
that you were on a station in New York City,
which is also an some place to Land as well. Yeah,
I've moved.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I think I'm up to thirteen moves now. Man, I
wouldn't recommend it. But many moons ago after Portland, I
worked in New York City at the local Fox station
Channel five. There for three years. That's when I was
still doing news and then from there I went to
New Haven, Boston, Houston, and then to ESPN.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Very cool. How did you get to ESPN? Because that
one for me. Again, I think anybody that gets into
or a radio or TV broadcasting always has their sight
set on it would be pretty cool if I got
on ESPN.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's funny because I never had thought about ESPN, but
at the time I had an agent who had some
clients there and he connected me with the people at ESPN.
And one of the things that they liked about my
background is that I had done news and sports, that
I had done print and TV. And you know, if
(04:01):
you've seen who they've hired over the years, they you know,
they turn a lot of print guys and print women
into TV people, and they like people, you know, who've
had news backgrounds as well, because so many sports stories
now aren't just scores and highlights. You know, They've got
to do with issues and whether it's steroids or drugs
(04:22):
or you know, court cases, all those kinds of things.
And I think one of the things that they really liked,
again was the fact that I had done news and sports,
and certainly when I was at ESPN, I covered a
lot of the news side of sports. You know, Michael Vick,
dog fighting duke across, the Kobe Bryant rape allegations. I
(04:42):
covered a lot of stories that really were on the
news side of sports, in addition to you know, obviously
covering the NFL and Major League Baseball and college football
and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was gonna say when you went over towards ESPN,
I was like, Oh, this is cool. I actually know
somebody that's starting to do like a lot of the
news reporting of it, and you got involved and probably,
like you just said, top three of the biggest scandals
of sports history with those the Kobe trial, I remember
that being ginormous. The lacrosse, the Doo lacrosse, and Michael
(05:16):
Vick was beyond humong us because that guy was like
super human at one point. So, when you're doing these
kinds of things and they're sending you out of these things,
is it easier for you to cover a story like
that or is it easier to report on stories like that?
Because it's two different things. If you're just reporting on it,
but when you're there and you're watching and you're getting
into the nitty gritty of these things, how tough is
(05:37):
it for that.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think what you have to do is just you've
got to put aside your you know, personal feelings about
anything and just dig and try to come up with
sources and come up with good information. I mean I
covered each of those cases for probably at least a
year or more each because those are ongoing cases. And
you know, I'll take the Duke case for an example.
(06:03):
I mean, I went back and forth from Chicago to
Durham I don't know fifteen plus times every time there
was a court hearing I was down there. They sent
me down there several times just to kind of dig
around and see what I could find out on background
and try to come up with interesting stories and interesting angles.
(06:24):
And I mean I do remember early on in that
case feeling like the you know, like the allegations weren't
true because I had connected with a lot of people
in the area, you know, not just lawyers, but people
who knew the accuser, and it just didn't seem like
that case was gonna was going to hold up. And
(06:45):
ultimately it did not. Obviously it took months and months
for that to come out, but it was one of
those cases where you know, from the beginning, if you
had been on the ground in the Dourham area and
really digging around. There were some flags that raise questions
about whether the allegations were true.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So when all that came out, and then, like I said,
there's been even documentaries now in thirty different thirties on
how pretty much the entire country turned on that team,
and then it was the other way, everybody just kind
of forgot about it. Was there anything in you that's like, man,
I hope these guys it somehow comes out that they
weren't as bad at it as it is and the
hopefully the reputation could come back to that program. Or
(07:26):
were you just like I could see these guys doing it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
What I remember from being there at the beginning was
I actually got to talk to a number of players
kind of on background, and essentially they said that there
was you know, there was an argument. They even said
that there were some racial slurs and bad language and
stuff like that, but they were adamant that there was
(07:54):
no rate. And from the very beginning, every guy that
I talked to on the team said the same thing.
But I think it was the perfect storm of you know,
all these different things that were going on. There was
there was race, there was class, there was these so
called privilege lacrosse players, and a young black woman making
(08:15):
the allegations. So there's this perfect public relations storm. And
I think what happened was everybody you know, wanted to
I wanted to come out and try to make this
thing go away, and and and the response I think
was quick and maybe too quick. I think maybe the
(08:36):
administration didn't take the time to investigate the allegations and
to really dig in. I think public perception is what
drove that case.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Now we switched over to Kobe Bryant. I am I'll
admit I am a giant Kobe Bryant fan. He was
one of the coolest guys I ever was around and
was able to cover during my time of being around
Chicago sports, and I always enjoyed him. But I do
know that when I started doing these podcasts and helping
out somebodies in some broadcasters in Chicago around the twenty
(09:10):
ten area, I was helping out with a guy named
check Coming and Lester Munson, and I remember Lester and
I spoke very candidly about the Kobe Bryant trial, and
his feelings were the other way. He was saying he
saw all the evidence, he saw the things that went
into that trial and things that were kind of being dismissed,
and it was just kind of, you know, because the
(09:32):
accuser had so many flaws, they were able to kind of,
you know, pretty much throw it out. But he said
in terms of what he thinks happened, he thinks it happened.
So again, another case. And I'm sure I'm not sure
how closely you are with that or if you were
right there with him, But was any of your opinion,
even though you say you try to be as you know,
unbiased about it as you are, is there a part
(09:52):
of you that's like, WHOA, I think somebody got away
with something here.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You know, I don't know if i'd be as strong
as that, but I I can say that there were
a lot of issues with the accusers background and that
she was going to be difficult for her to hold
up on the witness stand. And so I think ultimately
that's why, you know, they settled the civil case and
the criminal case was dismissed. But that was another case
(10:18):
that I covered, you know, for more than a year,
flying back and forth to to you know, the Veil
area and covering that case. And I remember, actually I
was at the Olympics and in Greece, and the Olympics ended,
and the trial was supposed to start shortly after the
(10:40):
two thousand and four Olympics, And I remember talking to
my parents on the phone before I got on the
plane and say, you know, I don't know if you saw,
but they settled the Kobe case. And I said, no,
I hadn't, hadn't. I had been traveling and gone to
Egypt to see the Pyramids, and I wasn't paying attention
too much and then found that the case had been settled.
(11:02):
So ended up not obviously going back to Colorado again
after that. But I'll tell you an interesting story, Dan,
I was, you know, I covered the Olympics several times,
summer games, covered the men's basketball team, specifically for USA,
and in eight I tried to get a one on
one with Kobe, and you know, I think his people
(11:25):
were really wary, wondering if there'd be questions about what
happened in Colorado. But you know, this was whatever three
or four years later, and you know, my focus was
to talk about playing for Team USA, what it meant
to him, what it meant to him to play with
all these other NBA All Stars, and you could just
(11:47):
tell when when he first came to meet me. I
think we met at a I think it was at
a Nike facility in Beijing. His body language just was,
you know, he was concerned. You could tell that I
was going to go and ask him about the Duke Cross.
I'm sorry, dud Across about the rape allegations, but that
had been so far in the past that you know,
(12:10):
that wasn't really what was relevant at the time. We
wanted to talk about again him playing for Team USA,
and you could just see him breathe a sigh of
relief after the interview because you know, it was all
about basketball and the president and wasn't about the pass.
So h He actually interviewed with me several times after
that in different places and was always very accommodating.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's cool. And the Michael vic case, what was that
one like? Because I've said a lot of cases and
we'll get to the argument itself. And what was the
I mean, Prepace said what the Mount Rushmore of of
Chicago or sports rival or sorry, the Mount Rushmore of
sports scandals? But I remember vividly being like Michael Vick
(12:54):
at the top of his game. It's almost like Mike
Tyson like it stopped for him. His career was never recovered.
He was on track to probably be one of the
greatest quarterbacks we've ever seen, and just skill and the
type of momentum he had going was so awesome that
to watch it in real time, all that get put
(13:15):
out and all that get cut short. He had a
bit of a comeback with Philadelphia, but that had been
something to kind of watch them far and just be like, damn,
it's ending for you. This sucks.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
That was another case that I spent probably a year
going back and forth to Virginia to cover, you know,
not only what was going on in the community, but
every time there was some sort of a court hearing
or appearance. And I mean, I think the dog fighting
itself was more common than people think in certain areas
(13:48):
in Virginia. It was something that you know, wasn't uncommon,
but obviously that issue it's extremely sensitive, and I think
it absolutely changed his career and ruined his career because
he was associated with it. But just being down there
(14:10):
and you know, kind of digging around and and and
reporting on what was happening in the area and was
you know, dog fighting was something that was part of culture.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Interesting. Interesting. Now you go from all these very serious,
hard hitting cases, then you like leav ESPNA and you
start doing like the morning TV shows kind of deals,
like where you at a different places and it's more fun.
That Was that a total Was that something you were
looking to do, like because you were involved in some
really serious stuff. Was it kind of one of those
(14:45):
things where you're like, all right, I'm done trying to
get this investigative, I'm done trying to get this serious
and sports. I want to have some fun. Or was
it just kind of the the next step in your career.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, I'll tell you what I've done news and sports
since I left ESPN, But I don't know if you remember.
I spent almost three years in Chicago twenty fifteen to
twenty eighteen when I was at Fox, and I'll tell
you that was that was one of the best UH
rides in sports, you know, Obviously covering the Cubs World
(15:16):
Series run with something that I'll always remember. I got
to go to every single home and away game throughout
that World Series and that was I think one of
the highlights of my career for sure, just getting to
be around. You know that that history. Yeah, something that
exciting and something that you know, really inspired the whole city.
(15:38):
I mean even white Sox fans have to give it
up a little bit, right, It was exciting for the city.
I did get to cover the white Sox, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, white socks will never say it too.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
History is history, right, I mean, you got you got
to give it up for history. So but but sports
is more fun. Let's let's just be clear. Sports is
a lot more or fun to cover. And you know,
even though that there are cases where you know, you've
got the news east side of what's going on in
sports and the scandals and things like that. I mean,
when you're you're sitting in a press box, you know,
(16:14):
at rigging the field or ats older field or something
like that and thinking, hey, I'm getting paid to be here.
It's pretty cool to be assigned to cover sports for
a living. And it's certainly for the most part, more
positive than covering news, which obviously is very negative.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's funny that you bring that up, because that was
a question I had for actually both of you guys,
and the question that would be would be should sports
journalists be able to weigh in on some social issues
during broadcasts because like you said before, and I believe
this too, that in the game of news, when it
comes to news reporting and whether it's radio or television,
(16:54):
the game of news, when you go to the sports area,
I always feel like that's the toy department. That's the
one time where news takes a break and you can
just be sports. Let's have some fun, let's talk, you know,
let's get our brains out of you know, the serious
stuff that's going on in life. Let's let's lighten the
mood a little bit. But with the last four years
of the pandemic and social media the rise, I feel
(17:16):
like everything is being blended together, and I kind I
personally feel like I wish sports would just kind of
just be a place for people to be entertained, be relaxed.
It's not that serious one in sports unless something involved sports.
Of course, I have the stuff that you've done and
you cover. That's a different situation. But I've when I
even when I watch like these these programs, and I
(17:38):
watched you know, Stephen A. Smith, and I watch all
the different TV show the hot takes and all that stuff,
and every time there's a political point or there's a hey,
let's talk about a social thing. For me, it's just
like there's other people getting paid for that. I just
want to I'm going to you to not have those conversations.
What do you guys think, Well, I'll.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Tell you some news stations when when the sports stories
become newsier, they will have the news people cover it
and not the sports people. I've seen that at different
stations where I've worked in the past. But then again,
I think you know, in some of your bigger markets
that you're in Chicago or Boston or New York, you know,
(18:19):
those reporters, those sports reporters are going to be expected
to ask those questions, you know, when things get tough,
or there's some scandal, or there's something that's you know,
off the field that that's relevant. So you know, But personally,
I I don't like to give my opinion. You know,
I'm not a talk show host, so I don't really
(18:41):
put my opinions out there. I just try to cover
the story and get the facts and get it right
and you know, and and present as balanced the story
as I can. But certainly, I think uh sports on
TV and radio has gravitated towards a lot of opinion
and personal and I think even at ESPN there's a
(19:03):
lot more personality driven stuff and not as much you know,
digging deeper reporting type of stuff as it used to be.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And I get it, and I get the natural evolution
of it, because you know, news can also be consumed
in so many different ways than it used to be.
When you were doing this stuff, social media and the
way the Internet was and the way word traveled, you
guys were still just as good as what, like what
Twitter and all that stuff is. But right now, in
order to get people to consume content, you got to
have people talking about hot topics. And that's where I
(19:35):
think it does get dicey. For me at least, I'm
always like, I don't think you need to bring that
up in order to have this conversation be as electric
as it should be. But I understand both both sides
of it, just because if you can keep eyes on
your product, do what you gotta do. But I agree,
at the end of the day, I mean, if you're
going to have a newsy thing, I'd rather hear from
an expert or somebody who is a little more incredible
(19:58):
than just you know, ex athletes that are talking about
something where you're like, I don't know if I want
to hear it from you. I mean, I'd rather trust
a different source, and I know where to find that source,
and it's not here, So I much rather just figured
it out that way, just in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one, but
I would say that, you know, it's been my experience
working I work in sports in Boston, I worked in
sports in Chicago and obviously at ESPN, and certainly, you know,
when you're at that level, your bosses are expecting you
to go in and ask the questions that need to
(20:36):
be asked and not be afraid, you know, to get
somebody mad at you, or you know, to be snapped
at by a coach or a player. That's part of
the job. So I think you you know, you just
have to go and do the job, and sometimes it's
not always pleasant. Given the things that happen off the field.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Now, considering you've been involved in a lot of, like
I said, some some of the probably the biggest scandals
we've seen in modern history. You were on a TV
channel of ESPN, who does a lot of documentaries on
some really cool topics a lot of these thirty for thirties.
Is there a topic that you've kind of done or
been a part of that you wish they would do
another do like a thirty for thirties or a thirty
for thirty that is missing right now in terms of
(21:16):
what you covered, because I know there's topics and sports
that I would love to see get covered. I still
think there's a good question.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I can't think of one off the top of my head,
but that's a good question. They've spent a lot of
really interesting in depth One.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
The two that I I think I would like to
see is Number one is it's Reggie Lewis from the
Boston Celtics who died of well, they say heart failure,
but then there's people that'd say they were his drugs evolved.
And then they even did like a little documentary of
him in Boston for their their NBC Sports affiliate out
there was years ago, but I guess they're whoever his
(21:48):
girlfriend was or his fiance at the time, had a
big thing going on with the family, and they don't
even know where he's buried right now. So there's a
lot of questions I have about what happened with Reggie
Lewis and that kind of stuff, and I think somebody should, really,
I know it's been beaten to death. I'd like to
see a much bigger documentary and figure out what is
(22:08):
going out with Pete Rose. Did he actually bet on
the team? Did he not? Let's get down to the
nitty gritty. People want to know exactly. Can we dig
some things up that are more evident if you should
be in the Hall of Fame or not, because that
will not go away until somebody says it out loud
he's permanently gone or we'll get him in. So I
would love for somebody to just do a one good
(22:31):
maybe in a four or five part documentary on that guy,
and just let it all come out. There's there's one
on Netflix right now. I'm not sure how, but I
know there's a there is one out. There's one on Netflix.
I've heard of that one. But I really want someone
to just be like, like, send George, you go out
there and do some connect to get some other real
those journalists from back in the day, some Lester Munson
(22:52):
and just hammer that out and like, all right, let's
let's get some real evidence out here, because there's way
too many people that are that have a pin on it,
and I will say I'm not as educated about it
as I would like to be when it comes to it.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, that's you know, that's a topic that that seems
to live on forever. And I will tell you I'm
one who thinks Pete Rose should be in the Hall
of Fame. You can yell at me if you want.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I agree with you for what he accomplished and for
what it is that he did. I still think it's
I don't like the system of how people get into
Hall of Fames, and and I've even had the discussion
that I think at some point they should do all it.
It wasn't an the fact that the Hall of Fame
is an actual business and they're trying to get people
to come there and spend money. I think they should
do it like once every five years and really tighten
(23:36):
up the criteria of how somebody gets in a Hall
of Fame, not just hey he had really good stats,
but you know, this person had five championships and three
cy Young's or whatever it is, and like, really get
it down to the nitty gritty. But if we're talking
about one of the most one of the one of
the few athletes that had the biggest impressions on a sport.
You can't have a Hall of Fame without that guy
(23:57):
in it, even though you may have been on the team.
Maybe he didn't, I don't know, but what he did
as a player and a coach, it deserves, it deserves
a spotlight. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, he's the all time hit king and I'll always
remember him for that. And I always like the way
that he played that he always hustled and played hard
every day. And you know, look, I might be wrong
to think that he should be in the Hall, but
that's what I think.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Joey Jojo. When it comes to Pete Rose, does he
belong in the Hall of Fame? For you?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I'm gonna say no, because, uh, I mean, I'm pretty
sure he did. But I think the bigger deal was
that he he had this like really bad relationship with
the commissioners at the time, and all the commissioners kind
of you know, protect like or to protect the reputation
of the ones that came before them. So you know,
bugs Budd Sealier is a big cure. So he was
(24:47):
never a lot of man, now, you know, Manford's kind
of the same way.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And as far as the know, uh, the Hall of
Fame is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Separate, like you know, MLB doesn't ultimately decide who goes in,
like you know, but you know, obviously the you know,
sports right put them.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah no, no, no, I mean, I mean I didn't
mean it that way. I mean, like sports writers get
them in, and there's other ways for guys to get
in as well. But I guess ultimately, if the commission
want to get him, and he could, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
He could, he could, like if he kind of gives
you okay, then you know, the because the baseball writers,
especially more than I think any other sport, like you know,
they're very like they figure, you know, they think it's
up to them to protect.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
The I don't know, uh, the herold into the game,
the reputation, right.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So they're like they call themselves like the gatekeepers, you know,
so you know, as long you know, as long as
they're kind of in charge, I don't think he's ever
gonna go. Yeah, so I don't I don't think he
should be in just because he lied about it for
so long. But I mean it's a it's a good.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Topic, then I'll throw another topic gets you, guys, as
long as we're getting on some scandals and things like that,
Amount Rushmore, the biggest sports scandals of all time? Who
is who is on your guys' top four for Mount Rushmore?
And I can definitely give you guys mind first if
you'd like. But I've been kind of thinking about it
as well. Do you have a top four of all
(26:08):
time Mount Rushmore of scandals and sports?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Top four is tricky? But I will say this, I
think steroids in baseball is huge, Yes, one, oh for sure.
So many things, so many different levels, and I mean,
you know, just as an aside the things that I covered,
I mean cross case was one of the you know,
big sports scandals of the last twenty years, and certainly
(26:39):
the Cobe case and Michael Vick as well. But I
think steroids in baseball might be number one. But you
could probably change my mind with a strong art.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I will say this that in terms of the steroids scandal,
we can almost kind of laugh about some of it
because a lot of it was very hearsay. There were
guys that wrote books about it, like jose Can Sego
wrote a book, and guys were on stuff, but nothing
nobody ever came right on and said I took steroids.
They except for I think a Rod said he accidentally
(27:11):
was given something, or a lot of guys say they
were accidentally doing something that wasn't supposed to but then
they did those stupid I think we can all laugh
about those congressional hearings where all of a sudden, you know,
Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English and need an interpreter.
And I mean, George, you and I were around Sammy Sosa.
He never had problem speaking English before. And those guys
(27:31):
were all at a congressional hearing say that they did
take steroids of baseball, and it was like the weirdest
circus that was around these guys. And to be honest,
I really never cared about the steroids. I mean baseball
needed that. I mean pun intended to shot in the
arm to get back from that strike, and that home
run contest between Sosa Maguire was one of the few
things that brought it back to like a social light.
(27:53):
So I never had an issue with it. I just
thought it was funny that they dragged these guys out
all because one guy the balco and all, you know,
these guys were saying that they had you know, we
know we have proved that, you know, these are clients
of ours, but nobody ever like got downright busted for.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know, well, I'll tell you what I remember about
the summer where Sosa maguire we're matching a home run
for home run. I was a sportscaster in Boston. What
was that around ninety eight, right, yeah, And and you
know we're showing Sosa and McGuire highlights every night. You know,
we're Boston Sports station, and obviously Boston Sports was the focus.
(28:32):
But but that was such a big story, injecting energy
into into baseball at the time when it really needed.
That was, you know, one of the biggest sports stories
going on. And I just remember every scene, like every
night we were showing the highlight of one of those
guys hitting a home run or multiple home runs, and
so scandal aside, it certainly injected energy into baseball that
(28:56):
was badly needed, very much.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So, Sholly, who do you got on your four If
I were to give you a mount rushbore of top
sports scandals, I know it's you know, been a long time.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I still think the the nineteen nineteen White Sox and
you know, the you know, the uh getting paid to
throw the World Series is up there.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
The Black Sox is definitely out there. Yes, yes, for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
And I'm not sure so much as scandal scandal. But
something that's you know, uh so interesting is you know,
Michael Jordan retiring from basketball to go play baseball.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
That one is a very interesting one, George, what is
I mean, everybody's got an opinion on that one, whether
or not they say he was not told to take
a break from basketball. What do you what do you
think of that one? Just uh, completely opinion based. What
are you what are your thoughts on the Jordan retiring
that year?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I don't know if maybe I'm naive. I don't
know if I believe all all the rummers. I think
it wasn't great for basketball him being away to open
the door for another team to win a couple championships.
But yeah, I don't know if if I buy into it.
(30:06):
I've seen a lot of stuff, I've read a lot
of stuff. Call me naive, but I'm not sure I
buy into the rumors.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I am right there. I go back and forth with
it because it was it was done so quickly, like
it happened they knew exactly the guys were and it
was just like that was it. And then all of
a sudden he retired and just happened to come back
like he never if you've watched the Last Dance, And
it's always been on my mind too, that every time
they've talked about Michael Jordan, whenever there was a challenge,
(30:35):
he stepped up to the plate, wanted to do it,
wanted to do it. He was all in. He was
all in. But it was just kind of funny that
baseball became that sport where he wanted to do it.
He was actually striving and trying to get better. Then
he just left like it was like it wasn't like
one of those things where like, not only am I
going to be in baseball, but I want to be
like an All Star and then strive to do that.
It was just there's a strike, come out. So I
(30:55):
thought that was kind of weird where we talk about
the most competitive human being in the entire world world
that whenever there's a challenge he wants to go through it.
He went and did all the you know, minor league
baseball and rode on the bus and all these things,
and the minute there was a strike. He was like,
I'm gonna go back to basketball. I just thought that
was kind of a little more a little lackluster of
(31:16):
a story.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Ending for me, just as the quick as side of
all the things I've gotten to cover over the years
and sports I have never covered Michael Jordans. I've never
met Michael Jordan one of the few big name pro
athletes I've not had a chance to meet.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I've met him a few times just being around him
out here, and it's, like I said, for me, because
I'm just such a big fan, I saw that aura
that Allen Iverson and those guys talk about where it
looks like he's floating whatever I've seen him in real life.
I'm always like, oh my god, that's that is him.
But I mean it's one of those things where, like
I said, I mean, I there's I mean, he denies
until the cows come home, and you know he was
(31:53):
doing a lot of gambling, and there's a lot of
stories of people like gambling with it. But I don't.
I don't. I still don't see, like said the commissioner
of the NBA, with all that money and with that
that big meal ticket of him and say, hey, why
don't you take a walk for eighteen months. I don't
see anybody turning down money like that, So that's that
would be it for me. But for me, by four,
I don't know if we can consider O. J. Simpson
(32:14):
the top sports scandal. Yeah yeah, but I mean he
wasn't like playing then, so it's tough to do it.
But so I kind of between him and Tiger Tiger Woods,
and for me is also one that was up there
too because he was still kind of getting back from
injuries and he was actually on a really good path
to coming back and and tackling some of the greatest
(32:34):
of all time feats that golf could have. So for
anything that was like during sports like during their career,
I would say, I mean Tiger Woods was right there,
but oj Is if that one fits, I would put
that number one. It definitely fit. Yeah, that counts for sure.
Those for sure for me will do it. So I
would I will put that on there. And the Mike Tyson.
(32:56):
Mike Tyson, like I said before that rape trial, that
that whole thing, he went through it again, just like
Michael Veg those two guys, I mean, Mike Tyson in
my book, I don't Like I said, I never watched
Muhammad Ali, I never saw old boxers, but I've never
seen anybody as scary as Mike Tyson. For those that
before he went to jail, he was the create the coolest,
(33:17):
scariest boxer I've ever seen in my life. And I
don't see anybody beating Mike Tyson adding not going to jail.
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Now that you mentioned Oj Scamble, that seems to me
maybe that Trump's uh steroids in baseball. I think.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Again one we can come up with. I would say
sports athletes. He was definitely the one. But it didn't
happen during the sports. So that's the only reason why
I kind of say I footnote that one, because it
didn't happen during Like it wasn't like he killed her
or allegedly killed his wife that somebody would report it
was like he did that during him playing. It was
I mean, he was already an actor at that point,
(33:54):
So that's why I kind of I'll put a footnote
one for that one. Now to switch the gear, what
would you guys say, because sports is you know, rivalries,
we're talking about different ways of sports coming back, who
would you guys pick as the greatest rivalry in American
sports of all time and Georgia. It feels like you've
been in the market for a lot of these.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Well, I'm going to give you two, and one may
be my East Coast bias because I grew up in
New York City, but I'll go Yankees Red Sox.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, for one of them. That's a huge one.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah. Yeah, that's one that that's always heated and continues
to this day, has got a lot of rich history.
And I don't know, I think Lakers Celtics is another
one that always grabs me. And I just read Jackie
McMullen's book When the Game was Ours about Larry Bird
and Magic Johnson, and maybe that's fresh in my mind
(34:48):
and that's got me thinking about the Lakers Celtics rivalry book.
But certainly in the eighties that was a huge one
in Celtics Lakers. You know, great low, great story.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
And I am not in the habit of promoting other
podcasts on this podcast, but Jackie McMullen has one on
that called Icons where they talk about it's pretty much
all basketball. If you're an NBA nerd like I am,
and want to hear stories and things like that. That
is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. It's
well produced and it's awesome. So I'm not sure if
you're a if you're listening to arguments, I want to
(35:21):
hear some good stuff like that. She has definitely wanted
to check out it. Again, I'm not in the habit
of promoting other people's products when they're not paying me
to do so, but that one is even I'm like, damn,
I want to make a podcast like that one they
do so that one and I totally, I totally understand
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes, when I was in Boston as a sports anchor,
we used to do a Sunday night sports show and
you know, kind of wrap up of what was going
on during the week, and Jackie would often be a
guest on our show, and I mean, what a treat
was to have her in there talking about pretty much anything.
She's so dialed in and she's got such great take,
(35:55):
So that was always a lot of fun to have
Jackie coming and beyond the.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Show, and she had is I mean when I always
say that she has every source in the world, but
her source is the source I talked to Larry Bird.
I always, I always, I've always liked that. Dan Patrick
did a lot of that, like when he was on
the radio and you know, in Terrestrial and when he
was on ESPN. But it would always be like, you know,
Alex Rodriguez is the news for steroids, He'll be joining
(36:20):
us at new and I'm always like, oh, that's how
do you how do you beat? And Jackie's the same way, like, hey,
we heard the story of Larry Bird. Blah blah blah
what I just got on the phone Larry Bird And
he went into telling me. I'm like, well, that's that's
the source. You're the only one that names the source,
and it's the source. So I've always whenever she talks,
I'm like, she knows what she's talking about because that
(36:40):
person is talking to her. It's amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And a kind person too, just a great, great person.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm sure Joey Jojo, if I were to throw at you,
who do you think is the greatest rivalry in American sports?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Oh, I'd like your Celtics, because, like, you know, the
NBA wasn't like you know, they're what they're putting games
on TV on tape delay. They weren't showing live games yet,
and and that that rivalry forced the NBA to go live,
and that changed, it changed the modern NBA. So that one,
for sure, I would almost have to do this argument
with and almost say it's kind of like that, uh
(37:14):
you know what, you know, if you were to put
a you know something on this hot dog, say any
or if you're going to dib your French fries in this,
what do you did it in?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Anything? But catch up the laguers and Something's rivalry is
so humongous you always have to say, if not that one,
what else is the biggest one? Because the leaguer is
Something's won to me, Like you said, it was everything.
It revitalized the NBA magic and Larry, I mean the
whole thing is. I mean, even when they when it's
not around and they're there and the teams aren't very good,
you're kind of talking about it. And then in twenty
(37:43):
ten when they got good again, it like it rekindled.
But I would actually throw it as a second one.
I know, Boston and New York, the Yankees and the
Red Sox and anything that has to do with those
two teams, I'll give you a duke in North Carolina.
College basketball good one, Yeah, because those two teams and
those two heritages and you spend time in Durham yourself.
I mean, even when those teams aren't very good, that
(38:05):
is like, you know, I feel like nobody tunes in
for college basketball anymore until right around that February time
leading up to I'm gonna put some money on a
on a on a bracket. But when those two tas play,
are like, Oh, I wonder who won or who's uh,
you know, who's good coming out of that team that
I'll probably see the NBA. So for me, I like
to watch those two to be honest. By the way,
(38:27):
I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Thought about that one. That's that's a great one in
North Carolina. And that's actually another missing chapter of my resume.
I've never seen one of those games live, so I'd
like to put that on my bucket.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I haven't got a chance to see a lot of
college games live, and I've a couple of times Duke
played at the United Center. I was able to see
like a coach k game and I was like, Oh,
that's this is you feel that you feel that guy?
He also had a I saw him a couple of
times when he would whenever they would play a Chicago
tournament and Duke would come in. They'd be in a
press box in a Bulls game and I would see
(38:58):
them and I'd be like, oh my god, this so
there's an order. There's not an order to that guy too.
Even though I was never a big new thing growing up,
you still admire that guy for exactly who that guy is.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Let me tell you a quick Coach K story. I
obviously covered him when he was coach of the Olympic
team and I went down to Durham to interview him
before one of the Olympic games and he, you know,
gave me an hour of his time. He was great.
Uh And then all the you know during the Olympics,
you know, ESPN is not allow allowed to take cameras
into venues, so you have to meet the team at
(39:32):
the hotel after the game. And normally they give us
a couple of players and Coach K would talk to
us post game every day because we couldn't interview them
at the venue. Uh. So he was always very accommodating,
always great. We'd always get to talk to a couple
of players when when they got back to the hotel.
And then when I left ESPN, I had developed a
pretty good relationship with some of the people at Duke,
(39:54):
obviously covering the little cross case for so long. UH.
And following that, UH, coach K sent me a handwritten
note wishing me well when I left ESPN and and
started anchoring news in Cleveland, and his line was your
trustworthy coach K.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Wow, that is awesome. That's great. That is a very
cool story from your times covering basketball and the Olympics.
Any good stories out of those, out of those times
you were out there, You know what, I.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Think, it's just amazing that the guys really were passionate
about playing for the USA. I think, to a man,
you know, I covered eight in twenty twelve when they
won gold, and you know, Lebron, Kobe and Dwayne Wade,
all those guys, Chris Bosh, they loved playing for their country.
(40:48):
And it's just it was cool to see how excited
they were to represent the USA. And I guess it
was what four that we got bronze. We didn't win
the goal and four, right, and so eight was a
big campaign. Then you know, let's get this thing back
on track. You know, you've got coach k in place.
You've got, you know, the best players in the world
(41:10):
on the team, and it was maybe it wasn't the
dream team of ninety two, but it was certainly certainly
exciting to cover. And I think just the energy that
the guys had and the excitement to play for the
USA was something that stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And were you there in two thousand and four when
they lost?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I was there, but I didn't cover them as much.
I Actually it's interesting, Lisa Salters and I were both
there in four and so we kind of split duties
covering the basketball team, and then in eight and twenty
twelve I ended up covering a lot more men's and
a little bit of women's, but certainly the men's basketball
(41:51):
team quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That is awesome. That is awesome with George again, I
gotta have you on forever. You're You're just fun of
time to I appreciate you taking out the time and
hanging out with us on this on a Sunday morning.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Thank you, my pleasure. Guys, Thanks very much.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
All right for Joe Kelly, my name is Dan Levy.
You've been listening to Arguments our thanks to George Smith
for jumping on with us. And again, if you or
anybody who know is into this podcast and wants to
go ahead and share with friends, family, any like minded individuals,
and if you want to go ahead and contribute to Arguments,
we have a Facebook group called Arguments where we're always
arguing or hatching out different types of topics and if
(42:29):
you throw out a good one, we'll put it on
this podcast. So that's our treat to you once again
for Joe Kelly, my name is Dan Levy. You've been
listening to Arguments. We'll do it again soon.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
See y
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