November 5, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode of Baguments, hosts Dan "Bass" Levy and Joe Kelly welcome Jared Lazerson, CEO of North Bay Resources, to dig into the field of gold mining and the modern-day California Gold Rush. From the history of precious metal hunts to today’s high-stakes pursuits, Jared shares insights into what drives this fascinating industry. Plus, we get into some classic Baguments on two epic topics: the best cartoon billionaire and the greatest Old West movie or TV show.
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Once again, please continue to share the Barguments Podcast with neighbors and friends and make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are at it, please give us a 5-star rating and share your feelings about Bargumentst by leaving a review on whatever platform you listen to the show on.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Arguments has been recorded in front of a live studio audience.
What's up, everybody, Welcome in Bargin ours to another thrilling
condition of arguments. We've been away for a little bit,
but we are back and this episode, may I say,
will be golden. My co host today is Joe Kelly again. Joey,
(00:20):
what's going on? Look, Dan, we were just on a break. Okay,
we're fine. We just needed to separate for a little while.
We just need we need to take our space, take
our time and regroup, and we're back now. Our guest
today is CEO of North Bay Resources, a company that
owns mineral rights at British Columbia and Canada. The phrase
sitting on a gold mine gets thrown around a lot lately,
(00:42):
but in this case he actually is. Please welcome, Jared
Laser said, Jared, thanks so much for coming on with us.
My pleasure, a nice speaking with a Jen. So you,
my friend, are doing what all of us kind of
wish we could do in our real lives, and that
is digging for gold and doing a lot of well
stuff with that. First of all, just tell me how
somebody even gets into this line of work, because when
(01:05):
I was growing up, it was like, it may have
to go into radio. I have no idea how to
do a gold mine. I have no idea how to
do that stuff. If I knew it, I would join you.
How do you get into it?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, like you talked about, you know, as much as
your parents tell you that you can do whatever you
want when you're young, when reality hits at at a
certain point, you know, hopefully in your twenties, sometimes a
little bit older.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But I'm from Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Originally there are really were really only three avenues to
go down since we're a resource economy, always have been,
so that was fishing, logging, timber, and mining. By the
time I got to it, I guess that would have
(01:52):
been kind of in the nineties. The fish were pretty
much all gone, the logs had been all cut down,
so there was only one choice. So that's how I
got into it. I guess essentially out of necessity.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
What is pushing the price of goal to ADHs the
all time highs?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A lot of different opinions on that, but they all
essentially point in the same direction, which is a higher.
So first and foremost, I think the obvious one is geopolitical.
So when you look at just the global environment, even
(02:30):
external to the US, North America, you know, even Europe, Japan,
kind of the developed economies. There's a lot of instability
out there that's obvious to everyone at every level.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So there's just a fundamental.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I guess, you know, drive towards just security and stability
and an otherwise unstable world in terms of investments. The
next piece, that's really the fundamental piece. Most people don't realize.
The overwhelming majority of gold is sitting in central banks.
It is not in the ground, It is not mine.
I think the estimate on production is less than two
(03:11):
percent a year, maybe one percent a year, while global
gold is mine and it's all sucked up through jewelry
and obviously people buying bars and stuff like that, so.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
There is no real.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know, the supplying demand scenario is based on the
central banks own owning the gold. So traditionally that central
banks essentially would just trade gold back and forth depending
on their economic situations. You know, a country needs cash
or they want to they want to, you know, diversify
a little more into gold.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But that now has become a mad rush.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And I watched the Central bank buying World Gold Council
is a great source for that. So just the most fundamental,
you know, demand side equation is that central banks have
been buying gold like crazy. China kind of started at
about eighteen months ago, that started the bowl run, and
now everybody is just piled in. So those are the
kind of the two big pieces. The last one, obviously
(04:05):
is the whole deficit debt and and you know what
we think of as the printing money situation, which as
we know, has just gotten totally out of control. Amazing
that things are even as stable and treasury rates are
as low as they as they are, just considering how
much money has been printed really in the last ten
(04:26):
years and certainly twenty years before that. But but the
amount of paper money that's out there, it is just
a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I'm not one to say it's unsustainable.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I think the growth of the economy will always outstrip
the essentially the debt. But even as a as a conservative,
you know, even with the conservative outlook, the amount of
paper money out there is just astronomical at this point.
So gold being a hard asset and safe haven, that's
that's kind of it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
In a nutshell, I.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Will say, since COVID took place, mine and my wife's
minds of what this world is, or what the government is,
what the economy has become, is doubly a lot a
lot on the lines of what you're saying, because we've
watched a lot of inflation go up, We've watched how
the dollar is kind of going downwards, and every time
there's some extra money that comes in, my wife will say,
(05:14):
you know, I got I know what jeweler around the area,
and she's always other's by. Let's see how much you
know silver is. Let's buy some gold. Let's try to
get more physical things in our household or on our
possession that we can get. So, if you're saying that
the central banks own a lot of it, tell me
about how that mining works. Then what if they own
the most of it? What keeps what keeps going through
(05:35):
the mining process? What's going on through your head? If
you know that the central banks have the most of it,
where is the benefits and what's kind of the downfall
of doing what it is that you're doing right now?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Sure, well, it's really it's kind of two separate worlds.
I don't really know if there's a similar comparison, because
gold essentially is a commodity yet it really behaves you know,
as a maybe not as a currency, but as a
parallel to the currency. So you really have to kind
of bifocate those two worlds. You know, one is the
mining business. It's an operating business. It's not particularly complicated.
(06:06):
It's one of the oldest essentially businesses in the world.
You know, goes back to Roman Egyptians, I mean way back.
There's always been mining and even some type of coinage
or value associated with those metals outside of you know, making,
you know whatever, steel swords, you know, whatever you're using
just within your economy.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
But I think the.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Best way to really think about it is you just
kind of separate those So the mining business of gold mining,
it still falls into the category of mining. The end product,
like we said, is a much more sophisticated product than
being in copper or really anything else. Silver is often
compared with gold, but it's just not really the same
thirty dollars an ounce versus twenty seven hundred dollars an
(06:45):
ounce just right there. Fundamentally, it's just totally different worlds
and different metrics because it's still based on a per tonage.
So maybe that's a good way to start, is that
you're really looking at at a per tonnage basis, So
without getting into the technical details of the actual mining,
what you're really at the end of the day looking
for is ounces of gold. You know, producing that gold,
pouring that gold, processing towards that gold.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So gold is kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You need gold mining like what I was talking about
with the central banks, as in, all the gold in
the world is pretty much in the banks. With mining
most of the gold, I would say it's all gone.
There's still probably plenty of gold left there in the ground,
but all the easy stuff. You know, we don't have
thousands of active mining claims in California and Nevada anymore.
There's thousands of mining claims, but there's not thousands of
(07:33):
gold mines. So it's really been monopolized historically by the majors,
let's say, in the last fifty years, since the seventies,
less and less kind of what we consider mompaw or
you know, equivalent of kind of retail or mid level
minds mining companies. They've all kind of disappeared for a
variety of reasons. So what we've been able to do
and what we've focused on really is small footprint for
(07:56):
a variety again of reasons, environmental being one of them,
but also just in terms of capital and all the
things it takes to put a mind into operation.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
It's not it's not it's not. It's not cheap.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Let's just say it to that, and you have to
be highly organized. It's kind of like a real estate
project putting you know, putting up a high rise building.
You need to have all your ducks in a row
before you break ground. But once you get going, you know,
you get going, and you can you can turn a
pretty penny on it. So I guess on the mining side,
we've come up with a strategy, a small footprint, high
grade strategy. So really what that does is it doesn't
(08:30):
expose us to the volatility.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
One.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know, gold's looking good now, but if you're talking
about a twenty year mind, you need to.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Look at kind of the downside, what things will look
like out ten years.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Right now, obviously, everybody's you know, thinking gold golds, we'll
continue to move. But but you know, I look at
it from a from a long term perspective, just again
like a real estate investment.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And then processing that gold. So there's two pieces.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There's the gold mine where we want high grade gold,
which we now have. So you mentioned British Columbia, we
had a project. We have a project in British Columbia.
We just shipped some more on to our meal which
is in California. But obviously with the meal in California,
we wanted to start picking up. Like I mentioned, a
lot of old claims in California eighteen forty nine, multiple
(09:18):
gold rushes in California, huge, massive history, some of the
richest minds in North America.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Actually a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The richest mine in North America is actually contiguous to
our current gold mine in California, the Mount Vernon property
next to the Ruby mine which produced you love, this
produced nuggets up to seventeen pounds.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
They're in the Smithsonian and that's right next to us. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
So not to go on and on here guys about
kind of gold and how great it all is. But
we've now taken that gold, what's going on in gold,
and said, all right, how do we really leverage this.
Let's find some really high grade gold. Let's not get
into a lot of tonnage or permitting or just you know,
being some massive company. Let's start small and let's go
where we know the gold you know is, which essentially
(10:05):
where it was, and then we just bought the property
right next door, which is already a permitted infrastructure, tunnels everything,
and you know, for all the things we could say
about about the government, what they do or what they
don't do, the FEDS just gave us the green light.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It only took three weeks. So I only have good.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Things to say about the US Department of Labor and
their Mining Health and Safety administration at this time because
a three week turnaround on an operating It wasn't a permit,
but it's the final approval to go ahead. It's all
our safety stuff. So I just ordered the supplies this morning.
We should be underground within ten days. So anyways, a
long answer to it to a simple question, but I
(10:43):
think that kind of covers.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It well better answer to any other questions. Are you
looking to hire?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So another question for you is this because I actually,
I actually do have a buddy of mine whose grandfather
owned a gold mine. It's actually sitting in why, Washington,
right on the border of Canada and Washington. It's an
area it's been on sete, it's kind of been on
sale for the last couple of years the grandpa bought it,
(11:10):
wanted to give it to his kids and have you know,
their families taken care of it for it, and then
I know if people have kind of died, and now
there's kind of like a whole thing going back and
forth of you know, how to sell this gold mine
and all that kind of stuff. But the trigging part
is because I've asked, you know, how do we get
over there and start doing it? And you have to
like almost take a helicopter to this place or a
little mini airplane. You can't just walk, you know, drive
(11:32):
up to a gate and grab a hammer and start,
you know, looney tuning my way through that thing. So
I guess my question to you is, I mean, if
somebody does have access or say they have that, can
you do anything with that or do you really need
to let this whole equipment and break down to try
to get through to all that well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Without knowing the specifics, which for if it's an older
project they would have they would have mind plans if
it was a past producer, which we love. Again, the
best place to find gold is where there is gold.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It saves. I come from the exploration side of the business.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So that's literally going out taking some surface samples, sending
it to the lab, getting the results, taking some more samples,
send it to a lab, laying out some drilling, permitting
the drilling, which can take quite a long time doing
the drilling, and then if you're lucky, that's your first
step and maybe ten years later you'll build a mind.
So having a mine in place is going to save
(12:26):
you ten years. Now the question becomes is there any
gold left? And as you pointed out, ninety percent of
minds are in somewhat remote location, so infrastructure becomes a
key element if you're looking at production. But we have
a method. This is what I do, just like guys
in real estate. Again it's a good parallel, you know,
(12:46):
know where they look at a property, they look at
the infrastructure, they look at the buildings, they look at
the permitting the potential. Hey can I build a multi family?
Can I build a hotel? Can I build a casino?
I mean there's a whole different levels that you look at.
So I look at that from from the infrastructure of
the permitting side. But yeah, these are the types of
projects that that can be brought back into production we
(13:09):
kind of prefer newer projects, Like I said, a mine
next to a new mind or an old mind. Guys
that kind of maybe you know, invested, got in a
little over there over their heads. You understand these type
of models, they're all real estate models. But yeah, if
there's gold there for somebody like me, it's it's very
straightforward and I can evaluate it. But there are very
few people. Like I said, when you asked the first question,
(13:32):
you know why you and miney? How did you get
into this? You know, I grew up with this right
but all the you know, my dad was a was
a teacher, you know, became a professor. But you know,
everybody else in my neighborhood was, like I said, either
in mining or in forestry at that time. So I
grew up with it in Vancouver. There just wasn't anything else.
So I understand this. I've been doing this for more
than twenty five years. I've drilled probably over you know,
(13:54):
a quarter million feet of drilling. I've successfully drilled out
probably in ground value, about two or three billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It doesn't mean it's.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Worth two or three billion, but you know the big
number is that So there just aren't that many guys
doing what that I do. And I guess again, I mean,
you know this story, you know, did the kids all
go into tech, did they go into whatever? They just
they just didn't go into mining. So you have a
generational thing where twenty years ago, fifty years ago, certainly
there'd be a zillion guys going around kind of doing
(14:25):
what I do. Most of the best guys now, as
with is kind of standard. Now what's the best guys
work for the big companies, So there's just very very
few independents out there. So yeah, anyways, small mines, that's where,
like I said, that's where the potential is. Unfortunately, they're
just not a lot of buyers. But that's you know,
there's there's definitely some gold left, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You were mentioning Mount Vernon and all those areas. There
does seem to be a new California gold rush taking
place in the Sierra County and all that stuff. All
these operating permits were announced Monday. Can you elaborate if
what is that going to do well for you in
particular and also the industry of gold.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I can't really speak for for everybody else, Like I
said it is, and as you pointed out, it is
unusually quiet considering where the price of gold is at, right,
I mean you should have one hundred thought, you know,
like the old gold rush. I mean that's the best example.
Like you pointed out the original California gold Rush. What
did you get fifty thousand guys right right back when
the population of the country wasn't even that big, you know,
(15:25):
I mean crazy numbers. Tens of thousands of guys picked
up from wherever, or came from wherever, and and and
went out to California.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And had at it, and and it was it was
very successful.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
You know, millions amounts of gold were produced, you know,
over the decades. So, uh, it's surprisingly quiet. There's great projects.
We're evaluating projects on a weekly basis. We just joined
ventured another mine. They're like, you're talking about old minds.
They're clearing out the tunnels. It had good traditional results.
It wasn't mind out. It's between two big minds that
(15:59):
were mined out. So again the math is, well, if
there's gold here, there's gold here, there's probably gold in
the middle. But it's very exciting for us. There's a
lot of opportunity in Sirira County. We just we just
love it. There's so much gold produced there and most
of the mines are advanced enough that we're not into
a big permitting cycle, which is really the big, big
(16:20):
concern that I always have going into a project of okay,
this is great assuming that everything pans out, no pun intended,
but assuming that there is sol there. We do some
exploration testing, we take some samples, but now you know
how far along you in the permitting process, because that
can take some time.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And then also infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, my guys are capable and able to build
build minds, but it does take some time and and
you know, a couple of bucks. So for us, it's fantastic.
There's tremendous opportunity in Sierra County.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
We love it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like I said, we just got an operating permanent of
the mind. So everybody's on side in terms of getting
this rolling, particularly these smaller high grade minds, so great
for us. We're going to Contee to acquire and expand
even potentially you're looking at milling facilities up there right now.
Our mill is down the hill a little ways on
the in the next county over, Inyo County.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But if we can do something up there.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Then obviously that'll that'll save us some uh you know,
save us trucking and just make things easier logistically. You
always want to keep things, you know, relatively simple. But
I can't really speak to other people. I'm shocked. I mean,
I don't really get shocked these days. I'm a little
too old for that. But I'm surprised that there's not
more activity, actual mining activity, like you're talking about. I
(17:35):
got a lot of calls, we look at a lot
of projects, but I think, again, it's a generational thing.
I just think that they're just there's not that many
people in the you know, I'm fifty in change here
and there's not many people in my generation. So it's
really the under sixty crowd, you know. I mean, it's
(17:56):
it's there's just a massive just generational that they're just
I guess not that many geologists and certainly not that
much venture capital.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
So maybe you're hitting on something. We're getting to the
core of it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
The venture capital has gone into tech, where twenty years ago,
fifty years ago, it certainly would.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Have gone into commodities.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
To some extent, I don't see silicon Valley investing a
lot in gold exploration or development right now, So maybe
it's not just you know, interest in labor. Maybe it's
venture capital. But as we see, as we know Main
Street is very very interested in gold, So there just
might may be a fundamental disconnect and maybe now you know,
(18:33):
the venture capital moves back. We're basically in production, so
we just don't really require a lot of capital, So
those conversations aren't really even you know, that important to us.
We finance internally, so that kind of takes care of that.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So, yeah, what's in the biggest change in the industry
since you got started? Has there been any major shifts
or is it still pretty much the same since you
got started?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well, I would say just kind of building on what
I was saying, the exploration model, which is where I
come from. Like I said, I come from a background
of drilling and of exploration. So one thing that's happened
is exploration model is essentially broken. So what basically happened
is all these companies generally are public. They start up
(19:19):
as public companies, maybe a little bit too early, but
that's just kind of how it's always been done, primarily
out of Vancouver, Toronto, some of the states, but small cap,
high risk, high return investment. The problem became that after
the economic crisis, the majors got backed up on their projects.
So what used to happen is if you explored, you
(19:39):
found something decent, you began to drill it out, you
got great results, maybe got a small resource. Majors would
come in joint venture it and pay for you know,
all the way through to a mind production decision. You know,
start building a mine, and the junior would still end
up with ten or twenty percent of the mind so
a great return for you know, some few millions in investment,
you know, under ten million up with you know, a
(20:00):
piece of a you know, a billion dollars two billion
dollar mine, so then you know, a ten million market
cap company, twenty million market cap you know then then
becomes a two or three hundred million dollar market gap company.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
All makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Unfortunately, the majors stopped buying projects. The amount of m
and A occurring between majors and juniors is very, very
is minimal right now. So it's forced juniors to have
to find self not self finance, but have to finance themselves,
which means putting a lot of stock out spending a
lot of capital, raising money at low prices, creating dilution
(20:36):
for shareholders, and eventually I think shareholders got tired of it.
So it really the exploration market is somewhat dead right now.
You have hundreds of stocks on the TSX, you know,
below ten cents. There's just a real struggle, and that's
kind of happened over the last five years, but it
really was a ten to twenty year cycle where the
majors basically do big deals among themselves, m and A
(20:58):
within mining dollar wise, it is massive, but the exploration
model is kind of gone. So that's one fundamental change.
The other one is the majors have gotten into larger
and larger projects, and that may be kind of dovetail
into what I just said. So the majors tend to like,
and we talked specifically about gold copper as well, very
(21:21):
very large, low grade projects. So the capital is massive,
which makes it a very exclusive crowd. The jobs are large,
so governments tend to like them, and the environmental footprint
is also large, so big companies can handle it with
this word of the government, but not ideal. Right, large
(21:45):
open pit mindes have issues, certainly not against it, but
it's very different than what we do right, which is
small underground primarily underground or open cut. But you know,
I mean to give you guys perspective the amount of
or that a I want to say, a proper mind,
but a large mine, a major mind Newmont Barrick. You
(22:07):
know these types of companies Ken Ross, EhP Rio tinto
what one normal mind would do would be say fifty thousand,
and that's a midsized mind. That's certainly not even close
to the largest fifty thousand tons per day.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
We will do less in a year.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So our target, what we're about we're starting to produce
now is about one hundred tons per day, say three
hundred days, so that's thirty thousand tons a year. A large,
a major mine would produce in access to fifty thousand
tons a day, so you can see, and profit wise,
we're still looking at about ten percent five to ten percent
of what they're doing, so you can see that's a
(22:48):
major difference.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I don't know if it's a shift.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
These large open pit mines have always existed, but that's
a real that's a real.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Certainly a difference between what we do and what they do.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So those are the two things I've really seen change
over the last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Jared, bottom line us this one. You are the CEO
of North Bay Resources, A snapshot valuation. What is all
that involved with the company that you are the CEO of?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So I took over the company from a guy I
knew for ten years from the mining business. He got
a bit older and the sun had beginn to set,
so I took over the company last February. In April,
we acquired the Bishop Mill, which I already had control over,
so we' vended in a controlling interest in operating control
to North Bay. That was in April. We joint ventured
(23:38):
a project which I also was involved with in Canada,
a very advanced project, I think one hundred and four holes,
already drilled, resource well defined, and then the big move
though to connect the dots.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So we had a backstop with the Canadian project.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And then obviously we're trying to get closer to home,
being based out of Bishop, so we acquired the Mount
Vernon mind which is what we were talking about, high grade,
already developed, fully permitted infrastructure, in place, tunnels, all that
sort of stuff. In July and the market caps started
(24:15):
out man, when I took it over, we probably are
at a million or two million. We just passed ten million,
So to put that in perspective, i'd say, we're just
kind of we're just getting going. So valuation wise, let's
say we do a half ounce per ton on those
kind of metrics that I told you about, you know,
thirty one hundred tons per day, which is what the
(24:37):
milk can handle mining, that's that's not a problem. At
a half ounce per ton, we'd be looking at what's
that fifteen thousand tons a year, so about thirty million
gross because the price of gold is quite high. So
our profitability on that is I would say north of
north of twenty million. There's there's mill, there's some meal
(25:02):
ownership payments. We have a partner on the mill, so
we've got to pay some of that out. But you know,
talk about you know, take home maybe after tax twelve
to fifteen million in earnings.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So you know, what's a good multiple.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean that the SMP trades it, I don't know,
twenty plus times price earnings we're mining, which is a
little more traditional. So I think the big companies tend
to trade it, you know, between nine and twelve conservatively,
let's just say ten. So you know, ballpark one hundred
and fifty million market cap. I know I'm kind of
whipping through the numbers here, but you know we're at
(25:34):
ten million un projected earnings.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You know we should be. Let's just call it, you.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Know, I don't want to say safely, that's not the
right word for the stock market. But let's just call it,
you know, one hundred to one hundred and fifty million
projected market caps.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
So just on snapshot, where we are where.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
We should be. Now, obviously this is forward looking. We
are in production at the mill right now, doing our
test runs. We are mining as of next week, we
have all our permits, so there are some milestones and
I'll you know, I always like to talk about the risks, right,
disclosures kind of you know what I'm about these days,
for obviously a variety of reasons. One, the grades at
(26:12):
the Mount Verd and Mind have come in between one
and five ounces, not grounds ounces per time. This is
very high, but there may be delution, so we may
get diluted. That's why I was using the half ounce number.
I think that's a fairly safe number. But the real
question is can we sort that or and just send
the good stuff down the hill. If it does come
in north of an ounce, then double those numbers. If
(26:34):
it comes in at two ounces, then that's a four x,
but I don't like to get into that. That would
be great, but that's not the numbers that we're writing
on paper. So mining dilution number one and then processing recovery.
We've done a testing or seems to recover very easily.
But there's a big difference between the lab and the mill.
Now this meal is very small, so it's not like
(26:54):
going from you know, a lab to fifty thousand tons
per day. It's going from a lab to one hundred
tons per very manageable. Uh, everything should work out. But
this is kind of the the you know, the story
of the next you know, let's say you know, sixty days, right,
it's going to be very interesting times.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
But all the pieces are there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And now you know, we're putting the cookies in the
oven and let's we'll try not to burn them, but
you know they should come out tasty.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
When you got your first check for all this was
it one of those really big big checks that said
million dollars on it from a gold vine.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Now, we're not there. We're not there yet. We're not
there yet. I just it's funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I pick up the phone yesterday and I said, it's
time to call the refinery, right, I called the guys
in Reno.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I called the gold refiner.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And it's like, look, we may be producing a fair
amount of gold in the next you know, month or
or you know, a few weeks, next next month or two. Here,
we may be producing a fair amount of gold. You know,
what are you going to give me on it?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Like, what do you take half? You know? Percent?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So they came in at a cool five percent and
that's completely on processed. That's that's just the raw we
run through the mill. We don't use the furnace, we don't, yeah,
anything like that. So we can just start sending truckloads
to the refinery because exactly, man, I mean, that's what
I came to the other day, is you know what,
this is all interesting, but we're not exactly pouring ninety
nine point nine nine bars. So I still need a customer.
(28:12):
I only need one, but somebody's got to cut me
that big check. So we now have a partner on
that as of yesterday. So yeah, we're that piece is
taking care of. So yeah, we're we're pretty much there. Well,
we will see.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Please please please, whenever you get that big check, just
let me know if it's one of those really big guys,
because I've always wanted to see it in practically use. Sure,
Jared Laser said, we appreciate you coming on before we
let you go again. This podcast is called Arguments, and
we're going to throw someone's your way that are that
are lined up with this this particular episode. So we
(28:44):
will throw this one at you for this argument. Best
cartoon millionaire tycoon of all time is who? When you
think of cartoon millionaires and the rich people that we're
used to seeing on television, who would you say is
the best one out of all of them?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I know it's the obvious one, but yeah, Monty Burns
is just that next level. So I think, I know
it's obvious. I hate to be that guy, but that
was that is brilliant beyond words.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I would say him, what's in the Peter Schmidt, the uh,
the Loess dad and family guy, But I would say
Scrooge rac Dunk is right there, and one that I
think is as a hitten gem and Joey. Maybe you
didn't even think of this one either. Batman, Bruce, Wayne,
that guy is a load of night, very nice dark knight.
(29:34):
I meanthough, like I said, I mean, and we didn't
even go make it a cartoon because Batman started for
me as a guard too. But maybe he is the
greatest billionaire out of all of them, Joey.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
But he's not like fun billionaire like mister Burns. Like
mister Burns evil, but Batman's just I mean true. You
can be enjoying it too much.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, that guy built up something to was superhero
for crying out loud.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But I will say Scrooge rac Dunck was able to
swim through his gold and not a single cut to
his face by doing so, So I am. I would
have to say Scooge McNuggets probably right there with Monty
Burns to me, is definitely hilarious. So Jared, that's a
good call by you on that one. Okay, for the
next one. The original California Gold Rush took place in
(30:19):
the Old West. We've seen a zillion different kinds of
movies and TV shows. What is the best Old West
movie or TV show of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Well again, I you know, I hate to be that guy,
but I you know, the good, the bad, and the
ugly I love, and I'd say it's it's it's mainly
mainly ironically, probably the music and uh and and and
that the uh, the ugly guy, I forget his his name,
but I will add that I do have an affinity
for for High Noon. I think that was my dad's favorite,
(30:50):
and and he definitely made me watch that many times. So,
you know, for both the genre of the strong silent type, though,
I think is the is my affinity with the old
last movies.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I would definitely say High Newon is right there for me.
And because I was not, I'm not that old over verse.
I'm only forty four years old. I still give me
a give me a young Guns. I'm always done for
a good young guns movie. Whether you're doing a billions
of kid and all that stuff. I know it's not
your typical John Wayne, It's not your typical uh, you know,
all all the all the old school guys.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
But I look good.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And then, to be honest, even back to the Future three,
I liked it, and Marty and Christopher Lloyd to Tod
took it to the Old West. Joe, what are your favorites?
I want to go a bit of a different direction.
You go with dead Wood dead Wood. Deadwood's not bad.
Dead One's not bad. Also True Grit. That's an old
original as well, John Wayne original, which I also enjoyed
(31:44):
as well. Jared, we thank you so much for coming
on the podcast once again. Jared Laserson, he is the
CEO of North Bay Resources, and again I think you
were taking time out of becoming rich and doing gold
mine stuff to hang out with us on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
We appreciate it. Thanks Dan, I appreciate it too. It's
great talking to you definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Once again, we want to thank everybody for listening in
to Barguments the podcast. We know we were on a
hiatus for a little bit, but we're gonna keep coming
back and we're gonna keep doing this one for you guys.
And once again, please share the podcast, make sure to
subscribe and tell all your friends about Barguments and if
you got anything that you want us to bargue about.
We have a Facebook group It's called Arguments. A lot
of good stuff gets going in there. We will keep
(32:25):
on barguing as long as you guys like it once
again for Joe Kelly. My name is Dan Levy. Don't
forget to Tippyr Waitresses. We out
Arguments has been recorded in front of a live studio audience.
What's up, everybody, Welcome in Bargin ours to another thrilling
condition of arguments. We've been away for a little bit,
but we are back and this episode, may I say,
will be golden. My co host today is Joe Kelly again. Joey,
(00:20):
what's going on? Look, Dan, we were just on a break. Okay,
we're fine. We just needed to separate for a little while.
We just need we need to take our space, take
our time and regroup, and we're back now. Our guest
today is CEO of North Bay Resources, a company that
owns mineral rights at British Columbia and Canada. The phrase
sitting on a gold mine gets thrown around a lot lately,
(00:42):
but in this case he actually is. Please welcome, Jared
Laser said, Jared, thanks so much for coming on with us.
My pleasure, a nice speaking with a Jen. So you,
my friend, are doing what all of us kind of
wish we could do in our real lives, and that
is digging for gold and doing a lot of well
stuff with that. First of all, just tell me how
somebody even gets into this line of work, because when
(01:05):
I was growing up, it was like, it may have
to go into radio. I have no idea how to
do a gold mine. I have no idea how to
do that stuff. If I knew it, I would join you.
How do you get into it?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, like you talked about, you know, as much as
your parents tell you that you can do whatever you
want when you're young, when reality hits at at a
certain point, you know, hopefully in your twenties, sometimes a
little bit older.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But I'm from Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Originally there are really were really only three avenues to
go down since we're a resource economy, always have been,
so that was fishing, logging, timber, and mining. By the
time I got to it, I guess that would have
(01:52):
been kind of in the nineties. The fish were pretty
much all gone, the logs had been all cut down,
so there was only one choice. So that's how I
got into it. I guess essentially out of necessity.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
What is pushing the price of goal to ADHs the
all time highs?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A lot of different opinions on that, but they all
essentially point in the same direction, which is a higher.
So first and foremost, I think the obvious one is geopolitical.
So when you look at just the global environment, even
(02:30):
external to the US, North America, you know, even Europe, Japan,
kind of the developed economies. There's a lot of instability
out there that's obvious to everyone at every level.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So there's just a fundamental.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I guess, you know, drive towards just security and stability
and an otherwise unstable world in terms of investments. The
next piece, that's really the fundamental piece. Most people don't realize.
The overwhelming majority of gold is sitting in central banks.
It is not in the ground, It is not mine.
I think the estimate on production is less than two
(03:11):
percent a year, maybe one percent a year, while global
gold is mine and it's all sucked up through jewelry
and obviously people buying bars and stuff like that, so.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
There is no real.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know, the supplying demand scenario is based on the
central banks own owning the gold. So traditionally that central
banks essentially would just trade gold back and forth depending
on their economic situations. You know, a country needs cash
or they want to they want to, you know, diversify
a little more into gold.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But that now has become a mad rush.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And I watched the Central bank buying World Gold Council
is a great source for that. So just the most fundamental,
you know, demand side equation is that central banks have
been buying gold like crazy. China kind of started at
about eighteen months ago, that started the bowl run, and
now everybody is just piled in. So those are the
kind of the two big pieces. The last one, obviously
(04:05):
is the whole deficit debt and and you know what
we think of as the printing money situation, which as
we know, has just gotten totally out of control. Amazing
that things are even as stable and treasury rates are
as low as they as they are, just considering how
much money has been printed really in the last ten
(04:26):
years and certainly twenty years before that. But but the
amount of paper money that's out there, it is just
a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I'm not one to say it's unsustainable.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I think the growth of the economy will always outstrip
the essentially the debt. But even as a as a conservative,
you know, even with the conservative outlook, the amount of
paper money out there is just astronomical at this point.
So gold being a hard asset and safe haven, that's
that's kind of it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
In a nutshell, I.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Will say, since COVID took place, mine and my wife's
minds of what this world is, or what the government is,
what the economy has become, is doubly a lot a
lot on the lines of what you're saying, because we've
watched a lot of inflation go up, We've watched how
the dollar is kind of going downwards, and every time
there's some extra money that comes in, my wife will say,
(05:14):
you know, I got I know what jeweler around the area,
and she's always other's by. Let's see how much you
know silver is. Let's buy some gold. Let's try to
get more physical things in our household or on our
possession that we can get. So, if you're saying that
the central banks own a lot of it, tell me
about how that mining works. Then what if they own
the most of it? What keeps what keeps going through
(05:35):
the mining process? What's going on through your head? If
you know that the central banks have the most of it,
where is the benefits and what's kind of the downfall
of doing what it is that you're doing right now?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Sure, well, it's really it's kind of two separate worlds.
I don't really know if there's a similar comparison, because
gold essentially is a commodity yet it really behaves you know,
as a maybe not as a currency, but as a
parallel to the currency. So you really have to kind
of bifocate those two worlds. You know, one is the
mining business. It's an operating business. It's not particularly complicated.
(06:06):
It's one of the oldest essentially businesses in the world.
You know, goes back to Roman Egyptians, I mean way back.
There's always been mining and even some type of coinage
or value associated with those metals outside of you know, making,
you know whatever, steel swords, you know, whatever you're using
just within your economy.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
But I think the.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Best way to really think about it is you just
kind of separate those So the mining business of gold mining,
it still falls into the category of mining. The end product,
like we said, is a much more sophisticated product than
being in copper or really anything else. Silver is often
compared with gold, but it's just not really the same
thirty dollars an ounce versus twenty seven hundred dollars an
(06:45):
ounce just right there. Fundamentally, it's just totally different worlds
and different metrics because it's still based on a per tonage.
So maybe that's a good way to start, is that
you're really looking at at a per tonnage basis, So
without getting into the technical details of the actual mining,
what you're really at the end of the day looking
for is ounces of gold. You know, producing that gold,
pouring that gold, processing towards that gold.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So gold is kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You need gold mining like what I was talking about
with the central banks, as in, all the gold in
the world is pretty much in the banks. With mining
most of the gold, I would say it's all gone.
There's still probably plenty of gold left there in the ground,
but all the easy stuff. You know, we don't have
thousands of active mining claims in California and Nevada anymore.
There's thousands of mining claims, but there's not thousands of
(07:33):
gold mines. So it's really been monopolized historically by the majors,
let's say, in the last fifty years, since the seventies,
less and less kind of what we consider mompaw or
you know, equivalent of kind of retail or mid level
minds mining companies. They've all kind of disappeared for a
variety of reasons. So what we've been able to do
and what we've focused on really is small footprint for
(07:56):
a variety again of reasons, environmental being one of them,
but also just in terms of capital and all the
things it takes to put a mind into operation.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
It's not it's not it's not. It's not cheap.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Let's just say it to that, and you have to
be highly organized. It's kind of like a real estate
project putting you know, putting up a high rise building.
You need to have all your ducks in a row
before you break ground. But once you get going, you know,
you get going, and you can you can turn a
pretty penny on it. So I guess on the mining side,
we've come up with a strategy, a small footprint, high
grade strategy. So really what that does is it doesn't
(08:30):
expose us to the volatility.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
One.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know, gold's looking good now, but if you're talking
about a twenty year mind, you need to.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Look at kind of the downside, what things will look
like out ten years.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Right now, obviously, everybody's you know, thinking gold golds, we'll
continue to move. But but you know, I look at
it from a from a long term perspective, just again
like a real estate investment.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And then processing that gold. So there's two pieces.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There's the gold mine where we want high grade gold,
which we now have. So you mentioned British Columbia, we
had a project. We have a project in British Columbia.
We just shipped some more on to our meal which
is in California. But obviously with the meal in California,
we wanted to start picking up. Like I mentioned, a
lot of old claims in California eighteen forty nine, multiple
(09:18):
gold rushes in California, huge, massive history, some of the
richest minds in North America.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Actually a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The richest mine in North America is actually contiguous to
our current gold mine in California, the Mount Vernon property
next to the Ruby mine which produced you love, this
produced nuggets up to seventeen pounds.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
They're in the Smithsonian and that's right next to us. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
So not to go on and on here guys about
kind of gold and how great it all is. But
we've now taken that gold, what's going on in gold,
and said, all right, how do we really leverage this.
Let's find some really high grade gold. Let's not get
into a lot of tonnage or permitting or just you know,
being some massive company. Let's start small and let's go
where we know the gold you know is, which essentially
(10:05):
where it was, and then we just bought the property
right next door, which is already a permitted infrastructure, tunnels everything,
and you know, for all the things we could say
about about the government, what they do or what they
don't do, the FEDS just gave us the green light.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It only took three weeks. So I only have good.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Things to say about the US Department of Labor and
their Mining Health and Safety administration at this time because
a three week turnaround on an operating It wasn't a permit,
but it's the final approval to go ahead. It's all
our safety stuff. So I just ordered the supplies this morning.
We should be underground within ten days. So anyways, a
long answer to it to a simple question, but I
(10:43):
think that kind of covers.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It well better answer to any other questions. Are you
looking to hire?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So another question for you is this because I actually,
I actually do have a buddy of mine whose grandfather
owned a gold mine. It's actually sitting in why, Washington,
right on the border of Canada and Washington. It's an
area it's been on sete, it's kind of been on
sale for the last couple of years the grandpa bought it,
(11:10):
wanted to give it to his kids and have you know,
their families taken care of it for it, and then
I know if people have kind of died, and now
there's kind of like a whole thing going back and
forth of you know, how to sell this gold mine
and all that kind of stuff. But the trigging part
is because I've asked, you know, how do we get
over there and start doing it? And you have to
like almost take a helicopter to this place or a
little mini airplane. You can't just walk, you know, drive
(11:32):
up to a gate and grab a hammer and start,
you know, looney tuning my way through that thing. So
I guess my question to you is, I mean, if
somebody does have access or say they have that, can
you do anything with that or do you really need
to let this whole equipment and break down to try
to get through to all that well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Without knowing the specifics, which for if it's an older
project they would have they would have mind plans if
it was a past producer, which we love. Again, the
best place to find gold is where there is gold.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It saves. I come from the exploration side of the business.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So that's literally going out taking some surface samples, sending
it to the lab, getting the results, taking some more samples,
send it to a lab, laying out some drilling, permitting
the drilling, which can take quite a long time doing
the drilling, and then if you're lucky, that's your first
step and maybe ten years later you'll build a mind.
So having a mine in place is going to save
(12:26):
you ten years. Now the question becomes is there any
gold left? And as you pointed out, ninety percent of
minds are in somewhat remote location, so infrastructure becomes a
key element if you're looking at production. But we have
a method. This is what I do, just like guys
in real estate. Again it's a good parallel, you know,
(12:46):
know where they look at a property, they look at
the infrastructure, they look at the buildings, they look at
the permitting the potential. Hey can I build a multi family?
Can I build a hotel? Can I build a casino?
I mean there's a whole different levels that you look at.
So I look at that from from the infrastructure of
the permitting side. But yeah, these are the types of
projects that that can be brought back into production we
(13:09):
kind of prefer newer projects, Like I said, a mine
next to a new mind or an old mind. Guys
that kind of maybe you know, invested, got in a
little over there over their heads. You understand these type
of models, they're all real estate models. But yeah, if
there's gold there for somebody like me, it's it's very
straightforward and I can evaluate it. But there are very
few people. Like I said, when you asked the first question,
(13:32):
you know why you and miney? How did you get
into this? You know, I grew up with this right
but all the you know, my dad was a was
a teacher, you know, became a professor. But you know,
everybody else in my neighborhood was, like I said, either
in mining or in forestry at that time. So I
grew up with it in Vancouver. There just wasn't anything else.
So I understand this. I've been doing this for more
than twenty five years. I've drilled probably over you know,
(13:54):
a quarter million feet of drilling. I've successfully drilled out
probably in ground value, about two or three billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It doesn't mean it's.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Worth two or three billion, but you know the big
number is that So there just aren't that many guys
doing what that I do. And I guess again, I mean,
you know this story, you know, did the kids all
go into tech, did they go into whatever? They just
they just didn't go into mining. So you have a
generational thing where twenty years ago, fifty years ago, certainly
there'd be a zillion guys going around kind of doing
(14:25):
what I do. Most of the best guys now, as
with is kind of standard. Now what's the best guys
work for the big companies, So there's just very very
few independents out there. So yeah, anyways, small mines, that's where,
like I said, that's where the potential is. Unfortunately, they're
just not a lot of buyers. But that's you know,
there's there's definitely some gold left, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You were mentioning Mount Vernon and all those areas. There
does seem to be a new California gold rush taking
place in the Sierra County and all that stuff. All
these operating permits were announced Monday. Can you elaborate if
what is that going to do well for you in
particular and also the industry of gold.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I can't really speak for for everybody else, Like I
said it is, and as you pointed out, it is
unusually quiet considering where the price of gold is at, right,
I mean you should have one hundred thought, you know,
like the old gold rush. I mean that's the best example.
Like you pointed out the original California gold Rush. What
did you get fifty thousand guys right right back when
the population of the country wasn't even that big, you know,
(15:25):
I mean crazy numbers. Tens of thousands of guys picked
up from wherever, or came from wherever, and and and
went out to California.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And had at it, and and it was it was
very successful.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
You know, millions amounts of gold were produced, you know,
over the decades. So, uh, it's surprisingly quiet. There's great projects.
We're evaluating projects on a weekly basis. We just joined
ventured another mine. They're like, you're talking about old minds.
They're clearing out the tunnels. It had good traditional results.
It wasn't mind out. It's between two big minds that
(15:59):
were mined out. So again the math is, well, if
there's gold here, there's gold here, there's probably gold in
the middle. But it's very exciting for us. There's a
lot of opportunity in Sirira County. We just we just
love it. There's so much gold produced there and most
of the mines are advanced enough that we're not into
a big permitting cycle, which is really the big, big
(16:20):
concern that I always have going into a project of okay,
this is great assuming that everything pans out, no pun intended,
but assuming that there is sol there. We do some
exploration testing, we take some samples, but now you know
how far along you in the permitting process, because that
can take some time.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And then also infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, my guys are capable and able to build
build minds, but it does take some time and and
you know, a couple of bucks. So for us, it's fantastic.
There's tremendous opportunity in Sierra County.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
We love it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like I said, we just got an operating permanent of
the mind. So everybody's on side in terms of getting
this rolling, particularly these smaller high grade minds, so great
for us. We're going to Contee to acquire and expand
even potentially you're looking at milling facilities up there right now.
Our mill is down the hill a little ways on
the in the next county over, Inyo County.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But if we can do something up there.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Then obviously that'll that'll save us some uh you know,
save us trucking and just make things easier logistically. You
always want to keep things, you know, relatively simple. But
I can't really speak to other people. I'm shocked. I mean,
I don't really get shocked these days. I'm a little
too old for that. But I'm surprised that there's not
more activity, actual mining activity, like you're talking about. I
(17:35):
got a lot of calls, we look at a lot
of projects, but I think, again, it's a generational thing.
I just think that they're just there's not that many
people in the you know, I'm fifty in change here
and there's not many people in my generation. So it's
really the under sixty crowd, you know. I mean, it's
(17:56):
it's there's just a massive just generational that they're just
I guess not that many geologists and certainly not that
much venture capital.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
So maybe you're hitting on something. We're getting to the
core of it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
The venture capital has gone into tech, where twenty years ago,
fifty years ago, it certainly would.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Have gone into commodities.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
To some extent, I don't see silicon Valley investing a
lot in gold exploration or development right now, So maybe
it's not just you know, interest in labor. Maybe it's
venture capital. But as we see, as we know Main
Street is very very interested in gold, So there just
might may be a fundamental disconnect and maybe now you know,
(18:33):
the venture capital moves back. We're basically in production, so
we just don't really require a lot of capital, So
those conversations aren't really even you know, that important to us.
We finance internally, so that kind of takes care of that.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So, yeah, what's in the biggest change in the industry
since you got started? Has there been any major shifts
or is it still pretty much the same since you
got started?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well, I would say just kind of building on what
I was saying, the exploration model, which is where I
come from. Like I said, I come from a background
of drilling and of exploration. So one thing that's happened
is exploration model is essentially broken. So what basically happened
is all these companies generally are public. They start up
(19:19):
as public companies, maybe a little bit too early, but
that's just kind of how it's always been done, primarily
out of Vancouver, Toronto, some of the states, but small cap,
high risk, high return investment. The problem became that after
the economic crisis, the majors got backed up on their projects.
So what used to happen is if you explored, you
(19:39):
found something decent, you began to drill it out, you
got great results, maybe got a small resource. Majors would
come in joint venture it and pay for you know,
all the way through to a mind production decision. You know,
start building a mine, and the junior would still end
up with ten or twenty percent of the mind so
a great return for you know, some few millions in investment,
you know, under ten million up with you know, a
(20:00):
piece of a you know, a billion dollars two billion
dollar mine, so then you know, a ten million market
cap company, twenty million market cap you know then then
becomes a two or three hundred million dollar market gap company.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
All makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Unfortunately, the majors stopped buying projects. The amount of m
and A occurring between majors and juniors is very, very
is minimal right now. So it's forced juniors to have
to find self not self finance, but have to finance themselves,
which means putting a lot of stock out spending a
lot of capital, raising money at low prices, creating dilution
(20:36):
for shareholders, and eventually I think shareholders got tired of it.
So it really the exploration market is somewhat dead right now.
You have hundreds of stocks on the TSX, you know,
below ten cents. There's just a real struggle, and that's
kind of happened over the last five years, but it
really was a ten to twenty year cycle where the
majors basically do big deals among themselves, m and A
(20:58):
within mining dollar wise, it is massive, but the exploration
model is kind of gone. So that's one fundamental change.
The other one is the majors have gotten into larger
and larger projects, and that may be kind of dovetail
into what I just said. So the majors tend to like,
and we talked specifically about gold copper as well, very
(21:21):
very large, low grade projects. So the capital is massive,
which makes it a very exclusive crowd. The jobs are large,
so governments tend to like them, and the environmental footprint
is also large, so big companies can handle it with
this word of the government, but not ideal. Right, large
(21:45):
open pit mindes have issues, certainly not against it, but
it's very different than what we do right, which is
small underground primarily underground or open cut. But you know,
I mean to give you guys perspective the amount of
or that a I want to say, a proper mind,
but a large mine, a major mind Newmont Barrick. You
(22:07):
know these types of companies Ken Ross, EhP Rio tinto
what one normal mind would do would be say fifty thousand,
and that's a midsized mind. That's certainly not even close
to the largest fifty thousand tons per day.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
We will do less in a year.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So our target, what we're about we're starting to produce
now is about one hundred tons per day, say three
hundred days, so that's thirty thousand tons a year. A large,
a major mine would produce in access to fifty thousand
tons a day, so you can see, and profit wise,
we're still looking at about ten percent five to ten percent
of what they're doing, so you can see that's a
(22:48):
major difference.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I don't know if it's a shift.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
These large open pit mines have always existed, but that's
a real that's a real.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Certainly a difference between what we do and what they do.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So those are the two things I've really seen change
over the last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Jared, bottom line us this one. You are the CEO
of North Bay Resources, A snapshot valuation. What is all
that involved with the company that you are the CEO of?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So I took over the company from a guy I
knew for ten years from the mining business. He got
a bit older and the sun had beginn to set,
so I took over the company last February. In April,
we acquired the Bishop Mill, which I already had control over,
so we' vended in a controlling interest in operating control
to North Bay. That was in April. We joint ventured
(23:38):
a project which I also was involved with in Canada,
a very advanced project, I think one hundred and four holes,
already drilled, resource well defined, and then the big move
though to connect the dots.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So we had a backstop with the Canadian project.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And then obviously we're trying to get closer to home,
being based out of Bishop, so we acquired the Mount
Vernon mind which is what we were talking about, high grade,
already developed, fully permitted infrastructure, in place, tunnels, all that
sort of stuff. In July and the market caps started
(24:15):
out man, when I took it over, we probably are
at a million or two million. We just passed ten million,
So to put that in perspective, i'd say, we're just
kind of we're just getting going. So valuation wise, let's
say we do a half ounce per ton on those
kind of metrics that I told you about, you know,
thirty one hundred tons per day, which is what the
(24:37):
milk can handle mining, that's that's not a problem. At
a half ounce per ton, we'd be looking at what's
that fifteen thousand tons a year, so about thirty million
gross because the price of gold is quite high. So
our profitability on that is I would say north of
north of twenty million. There's there's mill, there's some meal
(25:02):
ownership payments. We have a partner on the mill, so
we've got to pay some of that out. But you know,
talk about you know, take home maybe after tax twelve
to fifteen million in earnings.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So you know, what's a good multiple.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean that the SMP trades it, I don't know,
twenty plus times price earnings we're mining, which is a
little more traditional. So I think the big companies tend
to trade it, you know, between nine and twelve conservatively,
let's just say ten. So you know, ballpark one hundred
and fifty million market cap. I know I'm kind of
whipping through the numbers here, but you know we're at
(25:34):
ten million un projected earnings.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You know we should be. Let's just call it, you.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Know, I don't want to say safely, that's not the
right word for the stock market. But let's just call it,
you know, one hundred to one hundred and fifty million
projected market caps.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
So just on snapshot, where we are where.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
We should be. Now, obviously this is forward looking. We
are in production at the mill right now, doing our
test runs. We are mining as of next week, we
have all our permits, so there are some milestones and
I'll you know, I always like to talk about the risks, right,
disclosures kind of you know what I'm about these days,
for obviously a variety of reasons. One, the grades at
(26:12):
the Mount Verd and Mind have come in between one
and five ounces, not grounds ounces per time. This is
very high, but there may be delution, so we may
get diluted. That's why I was using the half ounce number.
I think that's a fairly safe number. But the real
question is can we sort that or and just send
the good stuff down the hill. If it does come
in north of an ounce, then double those numbers. If
(26:34):
it comes in at two ounces, then that's a four x,
but I don't like to get into that. That would
be great, but that's not the numbers that we're writing
on paper. So mining dilution number one and then processing recovery.
We've done a testing or seems to recover very easily.
But there's a big difference between the lab and the mill.
Now this meal is very small, so it's not like
(26:54):
going from you know, a lab to fifty thousand tons
per day. It's going from a lab to one hundred
tons per very manageable. Uh, everything should work out. But
this is kind of the the you know, the story
of the next you know, let's say you know, sixty days, right,
it's going to be very interesting times.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
But all the pieces are there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And now you know, we're putting the cookies in the
oven and let's we'll try not to burn them, but
you know they should come out tasty.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
When you got your first check for all this was
it one of those really big big checks that said
million dollars on it from a gold vine.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Now, we're not there. We're not there yet. We're not
there yet. I just it's funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I pick up the phone yesterday and I said, it's
time to call the refinery, right, I called the guys
in Reno.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I called the gold refiner.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And it's like, look, we may be producing a fair
amount of gold in the next you know, month or
or you know, a few weeks, next next month or two. Here,
we may be producing a fair amount of gold. You know,
what are you going to give me on it?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Like, what do you take half? You know? Percent?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So they came in at a cool five percent and
that's completely on processed. That's that's just the raw we
run through the mill. We don't use the furnace, we don't, yeah,
anything like that. So we can just start sending truckloads
to the refinery because exactly, man, I mean, that's what
I came to the other day, is you know what,
this is all interesting, but we're not exactly pouring ninety
nine point nine nine bars. So I still need a customer.
(28:12):
I only need one, but somebody's got to cut me
that big check. So we now have a partner on
that as of yesterday. So yeah, we're that piece is
taking care of. So yeah, we're we're pretty much there. Well,
we will see.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Please please please, whenever you get that big check, just
let me know if it's one of those really big guys,
because I've always wanted to see it in practically use. Sure,
Jared Laser said, we appreciate you coming on before we
let you go again. This podcast is called Arguments, and
we're going to throw someone's your way that are that
are lined up with this this particular episode. So we
(28:44):
will throw this one at you for this argument. Best
cartoon millionaire tycoon of all time is who? When you
think of cartoon millionaires and the rich people that we're
used to seeing on television, who would you say is
the best one out of all of them?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I know it's the obvious one, but yeah, Monty Burns
is just that next level. So I think, I know
it's obvious. I hate to be that guy, but that
was that is brilliant beyond words.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I would say him, what's in the Peter Schmidt, the uh,
the Loess dad and family guy, But I would say
Scrooge rac Dunk is right there, and one that I
think is as a hitten gem and Joey. Maybe you
didn't even think of this one either. Batman, Bruce, Wayne,
that guy is a load of night, very nice dark knight.
(29:34):
I meanthough, like I said, I mean, and we didn't
even go make it a cartoon because Batman started for
me as a guard too. But maybe he is the
greatest billionaire out of all of them, Joey.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
But he's not like fun billionaire like mister Burns. Like
mister Burns evil, but Batman's just I mean true. You
can be enjoying it too much.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, that guy built up something to was superhero
for crying out loud.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But I will say Scrooge rac Dunck was able to
swim through his gold and not a single cut to
his face by doing so, So I am. I would
have to say Scooge McNuggets probably right there with Monty
Burns to me, is definitely hilarious. So Jared, that's a
good call by you on that one. Okay, for the
next one. The original California Gold Rush took place in
(30:19):
the Old West. We've seen a zillion different kinds of
movies and TV shows. What is the best Old West
movie or TV show of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Well again, I you know, I hate to be that guy,
but I you know, the good, the bad, and the
ugly I love, and I'd say it's it's it's mainly
mainly ironically, probably the music and uh and and and
that the uh, the ugly guy, I forget his his name,
but I will add that I do have an affinity
for for High Noon. I think that was my dad's favorite,
(30:50):
and and he definitely made me watch that many times. So,
you know, for both the genre of the strong silent type, though,
I think is the is my affinity with the old
last movies.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I would definitely say High Newon is right there for me.
And because I was not, I'm not that old over verse.
I'm only forty four years old. I still give me
a give me a young Guns. I'm always done for
a good young guns movie. Whether you're doing a billions
of kid and all that stuff. I know it's not
your typical John Wayne, It's not your typical uh, you know,
all all the all the old school guys.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
But I look good.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And then, to be honest, even back to the Future three,
I liked it, and Marty and Christopher Lloyd to Tod
took it to the Old West. Joe, what are your favorites?
I want to go a bit of a different direction.
You go with dead Wood dead Wood. Deadwood's not bad.
Dead One's not bad. Also True Grit. That's an old
original as well, John Wayne original, which I also enjoyed
(31:44):
as well. Jared, we thank you so much for coming
on the podcast once again. Jared Laserson, he is the
CEO of North Bay Resources, and again I think you
were taking time out of becoming rich and doing gold
mine stuff to hang out with us on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
We appreciate it. Thanks Dan, I appreciate it too. It's
great talking to you definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Once again, we want to thank everybody for listening in
to Barguments the podcast. We know we were on a
hiatus for a little bit, but we're gonna keep coming
back and we're gonna keep doing this one for you guys.
And once again, please share the podcast, make sure to
subscribe and tell all your friends about Barguments and if
you got anything that you want us to bargue about.
We have a Facebook group It's called Arguments. A lot
of good stuff gets going in there. We will keep
(32:25):
on barguing as long as you guys like it once
again for Joe Kelly. My name is Dan Levy. Don't
forget to Tippyr Waitresses. We out
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