January 1, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of the Beyond Substance Podcast, hosts Dean Babcock and Jody Miller explore the transformative power of harm reduction in addressing substance use disorders. They engage in insightful conversations with Erika Chapman from the Indiana State Department of Health and Aisha Diss, founder of project.ME, discussing the importance of meeting individuals where they are, the impact of stigma, and the various forms of harm reduction available.
Segment 1: In this enlightening conversation, Dean speaks with Erika Chapman, MPH, CPH, CHES. Erika serves as the Harm Reduction Program Manager at the Indiana Department of Health (IDOH) in the Division of HIV, STI, and Viral Hepatitis. They explore the concept of harm reduction, particularly focusing on non-syringe harm reduction programs, which provide essential resources and support to individuals affected by substance use disorders. Erica shares her background, the importance of reducing stigma, and how communities can implement harm reduction strategies. Ms. Chapman has been with IDOH since 2006 and has previously served in the roles of HIV Prevention Specialist, Viral Hepatitis Prevention Coordinator, and Surveillance Coordinator.
Segment 2: Aisha Diss shares her inspiring journey of recovery from addiction and her experiences with the criminal justice system. She discusses her early life, the trauma she faced, and how it led her to a path of substance use. Aisha reflects on her time in prison, the challenges she encountered, and the pivotal moments that motivated her to change her life. She emphasizes the importance of healing, education, and community support in her recovery journey, ultimately leading to the founding of project.ME, an initiative aimed at helping others in similar situations. Aisha Diss shares her journey into coaching and harm reduction, emphasizing the importance of supporting individuals in their recovery journey without judgment.
Episode Links:
Takeaways:
Chapters:
00:00 The Power of Storytelling in Recovery
03:05 Understanding Harm Reduction
05:51 Non-Syringe Harm Reduction Explained
08:55 Everyday Examples of Harm Reduction
11:57 The Role of Stigma in Substance Use
15:09 Grants and Community Support for Harm Reduction
17:59 Asha Dis: A Journey of Resilience
20:46 Transformative Impact of Harm Reduction Programs
24:12 Building Community and Support
26:58 The Importance of Dignity and Respect
30:01 Practical Steps for Community Involvement
32:55 The Future of Harm Reduction
35:53 Conclusion: Walking Each Other Home
Hosted by Dean Babcock and Jodi Miller
Interview Segment Producer: Angela Shamblin
Personal Story Producer: Shawn P Neal
Executive Producer: Shawn P Neal
Mixed at AvoCast Studio236
Segment 1: In this enlightening conversation, Dean speaks with Erika Chapman, MPH, CPH, CHES. Erika serves as the Harm Reduction Program Manager at the Indiana Department of Health (IDOH) in the Division of HIV, STI, and Viral Hepatitis. They explore the concept of harm reduction, particularly focusing on non-syringe harm reduction programs, which provide essential resources and support to individuals affected by substance use disorders. Erica shares her background, the importance of reducing stigma, and how communities can implement harm reduction strategies. Ms. Chapman has been with IDOH since 2006 and has previously served in the roles of HIV Prevention Specialist, Viral Hepatitis Prevention Coordinator, and Surveillance Coordinator.
Segment 2: Aisha Diss shares her inspiring journey of recovery from addiction and her experiences with the criminal justice system. She discusses her early life, the trauma she faced, and how it led her to a path of substance use. Aisha reflects on her time in prison, the challenges she encountered, and the pivotal moments that motivated her to change her life. She emphasizes the importance of healing, education, and community support in her recovery journey, ultimately leading to the founding of project.ME, an initiative aimed at helping others in similar situations. Aisha Diss shares her journey into coaching and harm reduction, emphasizing the importance of supporting individuals in their recovery journey without judgment.
Episode Links:
Takeaways:
- Harm reduction is more than a public health strategy.
- Non-syringe harm reduction provides essential resources.
- Harm reduction is a public health theory that reduces risk.
- Stigma is a significant barrier to seeking help.
- Compassionate conversations can save lives.
Chapters:
00:00 The Power of Storytelling in Recovery
03:05 Understanding Harm Reduction
05:51 Non-Syringe Harm Reduction Explained
08:55 Everyday Examples of Harm Reduction
11:57 The Role of Stigma in Substance Use
15:09 Grants and Community Support for Harm Reduction
17:59 Asha Dis: A Journey of Resilience
20:46 Transformative Impact of Harm Reduction Programs
24:12 Building Community and Support
26:58 The Importance of Dignity and Respect
30:01 Practical Steps for Community Involvement
32:55 The Future of Harm Reduction
35:53 Conclusion: Walking Each Other Home
Hosted by Dean Babcock and Jodi Miller
Interview Segment Producer: Angela Shamblin
Personal Story Producer: Shawn P Neal
Executive Producer: Shawn P Neal
Mixed at AvoCast Studio236
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:04):
Stories connect human beings to human beings.
[Music]
As we realize that our experiences are uniquely our own.
And yet somehow, a part of the bigger picture.
[Music]
These are the stories from a community that is building hope through recovery by going beyond substance.
(00:28):
[Music]
Hi, I'm Dean Babcock.
And I'm Jodi Miller.
We're your co-hosts here on the Beyond Substance Podcast.
In today's episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of harm reduction
and how that impacts individuals and communities.
We're honored to share two incredible conversations that shine a light on the important topic.
(00:54):
I had the chance to sit down with Aisha Diss. She's the founder of project.ME.
She shares her deeply personal journey from adversity to advocacy, showing us the power of resilience
and the impact of meeting people where they are.
And I had the privilege of speaking with Erika Chapman, harm reduction program manager at the Indiana State Department of Health.
(01:18):
She offers a fresh perspective on harm reduction, breaking down the myths, sharing practical strategies,
and reminding us all that even small acts like carrying Narcan and having compassionate conversations can actually save lives.
These interviews remind us that harm reduction is more than a public health strategy.
(01:40):
It's about treating people with dignity and respect, no matter where you are on your journey.
So, rather you're new to harm reduction or already an advocate, there's something here for everyone.
Absolutely, Jodi.
Before we get started with our guests, let's shift over to Angela Shamblin with a look at the numbers.
Today, our guests are talking about harm reduction, specifically programs that don't involve syringes.
(02:12):
There are many ways to reduce risk and negative outcomes for people that use substances.
Indiana had 27 non-surringe harm reduction partners that served almost 26,000 individuals statewide in 2023.
The state also reported there were 16 harm reduction street outreach teams that handed out harm reduction kits and connected individuals to treatment and recovery resources.
(02:35):
They distributed over 34,000 harm reduction kits in State fiscal year 2024.
Since 2020, the State of Indiana, through its partnership with Overdose Lifeline, distributed over a million doses in the lock zone.
At last count, there were also 430 non-locks boxes and 18 non-locks in vending machines across Indiana.
(02:57):
As with all prevention efforts, it's hard to estimate the number of lives saved through these efforts, but we know these efforts have made an impact in our state.
After experiencing year after year of Overdose's rising, fail overdoses began to finally drop in 2023 and they have continued to drop.
In November 2024, the CDC released provisional data showing a 19% reduction in overdose deaths in Indiana for State fiscal year 2024, higher than the national average of 14.
(03:26):
There are many reasons behind that drop, but one of the biggest reasons is Indiana's investment in harm reduction.
We'd like to thank all the people working hard to save lives. Back to you, Dean.
Thanks, Angela. And to all of our listeners, you can learn more about our guests, the podcast staff, and past episodes by visiting our website.
(03:47):
Just look for BeyondSubsysPodcast.org. Now let's get started and hear from our guests.
Today, we're going to be talking with our very special guest from the Indiana State Department of Health, Erika Chapman.
So, Erica, can we begin today by having you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about your background and how you became interested in helping people who may have a substance use disorder?
(04:17):
Yeah, hi. My name is Erika Chapman, and I serve as the harm reduction program manager with the Indiana Department of Health. I'm in the division of HIV, STI, and viral hepatitis.
I've been here for about 18 and a half years. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from St. Mary, the Woods College, and a master of public health from my IU School of Medicine.
(04:39):
And I then got a certification in public health and also a certified health education specialist during my undergraduate is what I really kind of got interested in supporting the health of people using substances.
I have some really dear friends that struggled with substance use disorder, and I also do a lot of internship work in the substance use space.
(05:01):
And so that's just kind of how it got started. I've also in my time had the opportunity to serve on a number of different outbreak responses, including the Scott County HIV and hepatitis C outbreak among people who use substances.
And so between that and this life experience, your advocate of public health because healthy communities are good for each of us both individually and collectively.
(05:28):
And that's great. And today's conversation will fit in fairly well with some of our recent podcasts. And we recently talked with someone from Scott County and talking about what kind of happen in Scott County and previous to this episode.
We have spoken with Dr. Janet Arno about hepatitis C in this kind of population. So this will fit right in today's topic.
(05:52):
We're going to be talking about non syringe harm reduction. And I always kind of put a slash prevention, you know, when I kind of say those words is of some similarities in there.
And in a previous episode of Beyond Substance, we talked with someone from the Marin County Public Health Department related to their safe syringe access program.
(06:14):
But today we're going to take a shift and talk about non syringe harm reduction. So Erica, can we chat for just a few minutes to kind of talk about a little bit about what that is and how it emerged and what's important about that delineation between syringe and non syringe harm reduction.
Sure, non syringe harm reduction programs are those programs that provide the same wide range of services, resources and supplies as syringe service programs, except they don't provide syringes.
(06:48):
Because of the stigma and misunderstanding associated substance use and harm reduction, not every community may be able to go through the legal process to provide syringes.
But they do want to offer resources to help reduce the transmission of HIV viral hepatitis and other bloodborne infections along with a wealth of resources and referrals to the people that may need them.
(07:10):
Examples of non syringe harm reduction supplies can include but are not limited to things like bleach, stair water, cotton filters, wound care items and safer snorting and safer smoking supplies.
Anyone in the community can use these programs as well as syringe service programs to get sharps disposal boxes as well as a place to return those boxes for safe disposal.
(07:32):
Some examples of resources and referrals include but are not limited to food, clothing, medical care, substance use and mental health treatment options, as well as things like safer use education, overdose identification and reversal and a variety of community specific resources.
Most importantly, I want to remind people that everyone can access the services of both syringe service and non syringe harm reduction programs.
(07:58):
People using a list of substances, people using prescribed medications like insulin, vitamins and other injectables.
Or again, people that are just concerned about their loved ones or their community members and who want to learn more and get connected to different resources.
So can you help our listeners understand kind of in practical every day kind of terms, how non syringe harm reduction is operationalized, how does it play out in people's daily lives?
(08:26):
Non syringe harm reduction partners are either local health departments that have opted into the program to get supplies from the Indian Department of Health or our community based organizations that have written a grant to be able to get supplies from us as well as funding to support staff.
And things like outreach activities at the state health department, we provide technical assistance and support for everyone offering harm reduction programming, both syringe service programs and non syringe harm reduction programs.
(08:55):
We are comprised of myself and my colleague Sherry Brooks, we're a little team of two.
We provide technical support ensure data is collected and reported accurately and do anything else that we can to support the health of people using substances and those.
And sometimes the team of two is very powerful.
Yes.
So just a fairly just account for that.
(09:16):
So Erica, can you share some like other forms of harm reduction outside of the substance use disorder realm?
I think sometimes people think all these fancy words like non syringe harm reduction and harm reduction and all of that means something very formal and you know that you have actually programs for it, etc.
(09:37):
And sometimes other examples help make more clear of this concept of harm reduction as it could apply to anything, not just addiction disorders.
This is actually one of my favorite things to talk about.
I don't know if it's the first match today.
Yeah, there are lots of different options for harm reduction.
(10:02):
And then we're going to back up a little bit.
Harm reduction is a public health theory that essentially asserts that we as people are going to do things that are potentially harmful to our health and well being.
But harm reduction can potentially make these activities less harmful.
Some of my favorite non substance use disorder harm reduction examples are things like wearing a seatbelt when you're driving wearing sunscreen when you're out on a hike or in a picnic using condoms and dental dams to prevent HIV and STIs and.
(10:30):
So it's really kind of every day kind of things that we kind of keep ourself more safe.
Yeah, so it doesn't have to be overly sophisticated.
It's kind of like, well, don't touch the hot stove.
Correct.
Yes.
It's just a really simple stuff like making sure that you're brushing your teeth every day.
(10:55):
And again, my favorite is sunscreen because I like to go out and be outside, but I definitely need my sunscreen.
And I think it's something, you know, most people can kind of relate to.
And so it really is, you know, how do you protect yourself and how do you protect other people by by simple acts of being conscious of trying to lessen the damage that may be caused.
(11:19):
So in your mind, certainly I put these things two things together, but it doesn't, I don't want to put words in your mouth and it may not, you know, you may think about it a little bit differently, but do you think harm reduction is kind of a form of prevention.
Absolutely.
You know, in context, harm reduction's entire purpose is to prevent the transmission of infectious diseases and potential injuries associated with using substances or again going out and doing things like a hike.
(11:51):
That sort of thing.
But more broadly, again, the philosophy of harm reduction is to keep us as healthy as possible from the things that we're doing.
I remember going to a meeting one time many, many years ago and the facilitator of the meeting asked the question of the audience who here works in prevention.
(12:14):
And I just kind of remember it really changed my thoughts about that because, you know, certainly only people that worked in formal prevention programs kind of raised their hands and the facilitator kind of reminded everybody that, you know, everyone works in prevention.
In the sense that prevention can be things as simple as you obtain some education about how drugs and alcohol affect your body or affect your mental health or how they damage a community.
(12:45):
It doesn't have to be this very fancy formal kind of thing.
It can be that you calling and check on somebody could actually be considered a form of prevention or Narcan, the distribution or having Narcan at the hand.
I certainly I keep Narcan in my car in case I run into someone where I would need to have to help someone who may be having an overdose.
(13:08):
So you have other kind of thoughts about types of prevention that people may not think about.
Yeah, I mean, I think that you brought up an excellent example in having the lockstone on hand. I would also encourage people to, you know, whether it's for rescue breathing for somebody that might be experiencing an overdose or if someone has to provide CPR to someone having like the face shields.
(13:35):
You can get those on Amazon nowadays or lots of other places, but you know, having something like a face shield is always a great thing.
Certainly, we've learned over the last few years, very simple things like hand washing and having hand sanitizer.
Also, really, just kind of great tools to have on hand that, you know, can prevent transmission of disease and, you know, just keep people as healthy as possible.
(14:01):
We tend to talk a lot about stigma and stigma being such a barrier for people getting help and overall how stigma kind of keeps people out of care and keep people from doing things.
So when you think about that, how do you think that stigma has impacted substance disorder and either harm reduction or recovery in general?
(14:24):
Stigma and misunderstanding of substance use disorder and harm reduction are hands down the biggest barrier and my experience to people seeking support for substance use disorder and why there are not more harm reduction resources available in some harm reduction for substance use disorder specifically has been around and has been heavily studied around the world for more than 40 years now.
(14:50):
And in that time and with research, we found that not only does harm reduction significantly reduce transmission of infectious diseases, it also makes people more likely to be successful in their recovery journey when they're ready for it.
People who participate in service programs are five times more likely to be successful in their recovery journey because they're treated with dignity, respect and connections to people and resources, rather than just being stigmatized and other, which we know can have an adverse effect on mental and physical health.
(15:19):
We assume it's do better when we feel connected and included and stigma and misunderstanding of substance use as a moral failing or something quote unquote bad people do only exacerbates many of the underpinnings of substance use rather than discouraging it.
So we understand that the State Department of Health provides grants for some of this harm reduction work. Can you tell us about these grants and if someone if one of our listeners is kind of interested or their organizations that they work for may be interested in setting up some interventions.
(15:57):
How would they kind of go about that and could you give us an example of that?
So essentially non-surround harm reduction programs are kind of located throughout the state in lots of local health departments and some community based organizations and every one of those looks a little bit different, depending on where they're located in the community in which ones they serve.
(16:20):
So essentially if somebody was interested in starting a service program or a non-surround harm reduction program, they would certainly be welcome to reach out to you myself or their local health department.
And that's probably the best way to kind of get things started.
Can you share with us at all if you can think of any that are being aware of a few good programs that are kind of around the state that really are kind of a kind of model programs or whatever that kind of help this population that that we could include if people want to look at at an example.
(16:56):
On our website, we actually have a map of all the harm reduction sites that are kind of across the state and so folks are welcome to go to the website.
I think I've given you our web address and folks can go and kind of look at all those different programs.
The nice thing about all of the programs within our state are syringe service and non-surround harm reduction programs is that they are all established and run locally.
(17:23):
So each program has its own personality, its own unique flayer for that community.
And so each one is kind of a little bit different and I think that they're all fantastic, right?
They all are there to serve and really to take care of people and connect them with health resources, resources in general, not sort of thing.
(17:50):
And one size doesn't fit all this kind of what I hear you saying.
Correct, yeah. Every community has different needs and so each one of the programs kind of helps to fit those unique needs.
And that's one of the things I really like about how programs have developed over time in the state is that each one really does, they are run by people in those communities.
(18:12):
And so they know how to take care of folks in their communities, their neighbors, their friends, that sort of thing.
And share with our listeners kind of a few critical things for people to think about.
Either a few examples of things that people can actually do to help reduce the impact of substance use disorder in Indiana.
(18:34):
Absolutely. Just by listening to the podcast and educating yourself about the facts and the myths associated with substance use disorder.
And learning about harm reduction listeners, all of us are doing something to reduce that impact.
I'd also like to encourage listeners to not only continue to take opportunities to learn about substance use and harm reduction, but also talk to friends, family, neighbors about what they're learning.
(19:01):
It's always great to learn something, but anytime we can share what we're learning, it spreads that net even further.
And also reach out to your local health department, community-based organization, a lot of recovery communities out there.
Find out if they need volunteers, supplies, if they've got things that they need to help them to be able to provide for program participants that are not currently covered under different funding resources.
(19:28):
We also have a program called Stitching Away Stick Met.
So if you or someone you know Knit, Crocheties, or Soes, we are always collecting handmade hats, scarves, and drawstring bags to provide to syringe service programs.
More information about that program is available on our website, and I provided the link to you as well.
And people can also email me, I'm a Knitter, so that's kind of how it came about.
(19:52):
And so I'm always happy to answer those questions.
But most importantly, spreading love, kindness, dignity, respect, just connecting with other people, like that is the most important thing.
So for all of you Knitters out there, you've heard a call to action.
So please find more information on our show notes and get knitting away.
(20:17):
And as we kind of wrap up here today, Erica, we are asking to ask, is there any kind of special thought or special message that you want to share with our folks that you think is kind of critical when it comes to understanding the impact of substance use disorder in our Indiana communities?
Yes, yes, yes, thank you.
(20:38):
I think I have kind of three main reminders for folks.
The first one is that anyone can be impacted by substance use disorder. It's not a moral shortcoming. It does not mean that someone is a bad person.
It does mean that that person could likely use some extra love and support.
It also means that anyone can access harm reduction programming.
(21:00):
Anyone, even if you're a loved one and you just want to learn more about substance use or harm reduction, you are welcome in our space.
And everyone is welcome in our spaces, harm reduction programs provide resources for all of us and they're not just limited to people using a list of substances.
So that would be one.
The second is you can help us eliminate stigma and reduce the impact of substance use disorder by learning and again talking to and educating others about the myths and facts of substance use disorder and harm reduction.
(21:32):
Finally, the third is that every community in the state and beyond has the ability to support the health and well-being of people using substances and can host their own harm reduction program.
And we here at the Department of Health are here to help. That's what we're here for.
So reach out and we're always happy to connect.
Well, Erica, thank you for your time today. This has been very kind of enlightening and I think hoping for all of our listeners and to kind of expand kind of their thinking about harm reduction and because everyone everyone can help.
(22:07):
And I think, you know, and certainly most people know someone who suffers from a substance use disorder or is in recovery from a substance use disorder.
And there are certainly ways for everyone to help. And so thank you very much for your time this morning.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for doing this work.
(22:29):
It's again, critically important that we end stigma and the best way we can do that is by having these conversations. So thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
[Music]
(22:54):
Asha Dess is the founder and executive director of Project Me, a harm reduction and peer support organization in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
She's also a person in long term recovery with a deeply personal connection to the work that she does.
Her story spans decades beginning with childhood trauma spiraling into substance use and incarceration and ultimately leading to resilience, healing and omission to serve others.
(23:27):
Asha's story begins with a childhood shape by both love and pain.
At just five years old, she experienced trauma that would follow her into adulthood.
I had some childhood sexual abuse from the ages of five to seven.
(23:50):
It was a family friend. And he used some kind of scary religious stuff would tell me that, you know, like Satan would get me if I told him.
I wish if I told anybody and I was very little. That's really negatively impactful for people for a lifetime.
(24:12):
Books became Asha's first escape. As a child, she found solace in the pages of stories, losing herself in other worlds to avoid confronting her own.
But by her teenage years, that escape took a different form, substances.
I think I was probably 13 when I had my first cigarette. I would really say that was like my first experience with, you know, using something that caused me to have a head change.
(24:41):
By the time I was 14, I was pretty regularly using marijuana, alcohol and smoking cigarettes.
Through her teenage years, Asha excelled in school, earning straight A's, but the effects of her trauma lingered.
As she grew older, relationships brought new challenges. At 17, she became a mother, and by 19, she had two children and a growing dependency on alcohol and other substances.
(25:16):
And I was during her second pregnancy that everything began to unravel.
When I was 19, I knew I was having a son, and I got it in my head somehow that I was going to do something to hurt him.
Because he was a boy, and I'm a woman, I felt like because I had been abused, I was going to do something to hurt my son, and I couldn't get it out of my head, even though I didn't have any feelings like that.
(25:43):
I just had it in my head because I had suffered trauma. I was going to do that to my child and I told somebody.
I told my mom about why I was freaking out because she didn't understand what was going on because I already had one child, and I was freaking out about this second baby.
So I told my mom about the abuse, and very shortly after that, I got my first OWA, which I 100% see a correlation between those things now, because I was spinning out.
(26:17):
I used alcohol very heavily, but I didn't necessarily like alcohol. It was more like the lifestyle. I liked going out and like drinking and being social with my friends.
I did that a lot, and when I started drinking, I didn't stop. So I didn't necessarily have to drink every day or anything like that, but absolutely when I did, I was going to get black out drunk, probably fight somebody and not remember anything from the night before.
(26:50):
Shortly after, Ash's life spiraled further, another DUI, and a felony charge deepened her struggles. An abusive relationship added another layer of pain and disempowerment.
She was emotionally abusive and physically abusive, and all of the things, and I just had no self worth, and had my first and second OWA. So I got my second one when I was 22, which was my first felony.
(27:22):
And that was shortly after I had my third child too, so I was just, again, spinning out, but I had been involved with the criminal legal system for about 10 years when all was said and done, because I would literally get revoked off of probation for committing the next, like the next charge or getting the next charge, get revoked, and then have to deal with whatever that next charge was.
(27:51):
On top of dealing with the revocation, and I had to say that until then.
After nearly a decade of cycling through the criminal legal system, Asha found herself in prison for many incarceration is just another chapter in a long cycle.
(28:18):
But for Asha, it became a turning point.
I did intake at Rockville, which I think women still go to Rockville for intake, and I was there for about five weeks.
I was very low level. I never had any like violent felonies or anything, and so I got a job at Turkey Run, and I worked at Turkey Run State Part.
(28:43):
Why was it Rockville for just a couple of weeks, and then I was transferred to Madison, and that was before Madison had offense around it, and that was really weird to me.
You would think that would be like, oh, this place is nice and free. No, it was like, I don't know. Everybody was just kind of doing what they did, and there weren't a lot of guards around, and I didn't care for it.
(29:10):
It was just very disconcerting to me. I felt like I was always going to get in trouble because people were just smoking in the dorms and just doing things that you weren't supposed to be doing in prison.
And at this point, I had already decided, like, I am done. I'm done with all this. I just want to get through this the right way and be done. Get this behind me.
(29:32):
So then from Madison, I went to the Indiana Department of Corrections Work Release in Indianapolis. I wasn't there for a super long time either, because I had a warrant, so I could no longer be at Indiana Department of Corrections Work Release.
So they took me to Indiana Women's Prison. There were people there that were serving life, and that was very impactful for me, too, to know that I was in a place where people were never going to be leaving.
(30:01):
I had my mind made up that I was never going to be back in this place, and just to know that there are people who don't have a choice, like they are there for the rest of their lives, was heartbreaking for me.
Then I got brought back to Allen County for the last warrant that I had.
With no formal recovery programs to guide her, Asha created her own roadmap. She began planning for a life free of the patterns that had let her there.
(30:33):
There was somebody that was at home detention named Norr, that was a person with lived experience, and she was the only person that ever even like touched maybe getting through to me when I was going through all of this, and she just told me you don't have to do this.
Like you know you have choices, and if you don't want this life, you don't have to keep doing this. She was really the only person in my life that had lived experience, and that was meaningful to me, that she was somebody who was in recovery, who was talking to me about this stuff.
(31:10):
When you don't have any hope, just somebody letting you know that there is hope, and that they see you can mean everything.
Asha set her plan into motion. She saved money, secured housing, and enrolled in college to study medical assisting, but life wasn't quite done testing her.
(31:31):
The loss of both of her parents during this time could have derailed her progress, but instead Asha leaned into her own resilience.
My father passed away when I was in the Allen County Jail waiting to go to court for the last charge that I had, and then my mom passed away that December, and I was released from work release in February when my mom was on hospice me and my sisters were taking turns just caring for her.
(32:02):
I realized that the medical field maybe wasn't for me. I thought, "Okay, well, I do want to help people. What do I want to do?"
In my head, I wanted to help people who had suffered from trauma.
I went to college for a human services degree. My advisor told me that even people who have felonies can have good career paths in human services.
(32:31):
There are more opportunities for people who have a history in the human services field.
I tell people that I came home and I just put everything out there. That way, because I felt so embarrassed, and I was so ashamed, and I felt so guilty, I lost my babies, I went to prison, just all of these things.
(32:54):
I thought the best thing I can do for me is just put it all out there, and it will act like a natural filter. If people don't like it, then they cannot be in my life.
If people do stick around, then those are my people. That's how I feel felt then, and that's still how I feel today.
I put it all out there. My successes, all of the things I was having trouble with, that I miss my babies, that I was having trouble getting to college, because I couldn't get my driver's license reinstated.
(33:28):
Every single time I paid a ticket, I had a new insurance fee to pay.
All of those things, and I'm sharing all of this, well, I don't know this at the time, but people were watching that. People were seeing me say, "I have four felonies, and I got a job at scan."
When I got my job at scan, I had people message me from all over, like on Facebook.
(33:55):
How did you get a job at scan? Do they know you have felonies? How do I get a job like that? What do I do? One of my biggest coping skills when I got home from prison was taking pictures.
Because I could take my camera any time I wanted to, and I could go take pictures of whatever I wanted to, and then I would spend hours editing pictures.
(34:19):
Then I turned my photography into a business. People started asking me if I would do their senior photos or their family photos.
And so I started doing that, and then I formed an LLC, and when I was getting my bachelor's degree, I was just doing photography. I didn't work otherwise.
So I was able to supplement our income so that I could finish my degree. I did that, and then when I graduated from college, I got a job at a social services agency here in Fort Wayne.
(34:53):
And when my fingerprints came back for DCS, because I was a, I did like supervised visits and home-based case work. DCS said, "Hey, we don't need you to terminate her."
But we do need to know like how she is not the person that we see on paper. And so I had to write an essay, and they didn't suspend me, but I couldn't do any direct services.
(35:18):
So I could do like trainings and stuff like that.
As Asha built a stable life, she realized her story could inspire others. She started a Facebook page called Project Me to share recovery resources and messages of hope.
What began as a small outlet soon grew into something much larger.
(35:43):
People just started reaching out and saw I was working at scan at the time and I moved on to Brightpoint in their supportive services for veteran families program.
And during that time, I attended a forensic support class and heard about the peer recovery coach credential.
(36:05):
I just got the sense of like, that is what you're supposed to be doing. Like that is what you were supposed to be doing. And I put all my attention and efforts into that.
So I was working at Brightpoint. I immediately reached out to see about a scholarship for the training and certification. And I got a scholarship for the whole credential.
(36:30):
And got a job at day County Drug Prevention Coalition as their Allen County coach.
When COVID hit, I lost people. I lost people to overdose. And I knew about this narcan thing. You know, then I don't think anybody was really calling it in a lock zone.
(36:52):
And you couldn't get it here in Fort Wayne, not through the Allen County Department of Health. It was just really hard to get it. And so I registered as a distributor. And we were the first distributor in Fort Wayne that was registered outside of the Department of Health and the pharmacies.
And I was getting doses from a friend in Texas. So she was sending me like 20, 10 doses when she had them so that I could hand them out.
(37:19):
And then as soon as I think when overdose lifeline got their funding to start pushing out narcan to the state.
We because we were a registered distributor, we were able to start getting narcan and pushing it out. And so that was like my first kind of activity as project me outside of just kind of the general recovery support and loose coaching.
(37:44):
After I had my supervisor credential, I found somebody that could supervise me so that I could start coaching.
Today, Project Me is a regional recovery hub serving eight counties in Indiana. Asha and her team provide everything from street outreach and safe use kids to one-on-one coaching and harm reduction education.
(38:06):
Once upon a time there weren't seatbelts. People drove in cars, willing-nilly, no seatbelts, but car accidents were a leading cause of adult deaths.
So somebody said, "Hey, what if we had seatbelts? What if we had something where people were buckled in? It wouldn't necessarily fly through the windshield when they were a car accident?"
(38:29):
It's harm reduction. What that does is it reduce the risk of harm or death for people who choose to use cars.
Sunscreen is reducing the risk of harm or death for people who choose to enjoy the sun because skin cancer is a leading cause of death for adults.
(38:50):
Helmets is harm reduction. People knock their heads off and get concussions and traumatic brain injuries and all kind of things happen with sports related injuries.
But harm reduction says we can reduce the risk of harm or death for folks if they wear something to protect their heads.
So for people who use drugs, which is the population, the one of the populations that we serve at Project Me,
(39:19):
we reduce the risk of harm or death for people who use drugs by offering them safe supplies so that that decreases their risk of transferring communicable diseases to one another and to the community at large.
So our harm reduction street outreach team, we do unhouse street outreach where we go to all of the community meals that exist in Fort Wayne and we have at least one each evening or each day.
(39:46):
So we rotate those, but we try to hit as many as we can each week. We also do in can't outreach every week and we have a relationship with a city where they will reach out to us before they go evict an encampment so that we can go offer some support to them and kind of give them a heads up so they don't lose all of their stuff.
(40:07):
And then we visit hotels where people are staying so that we can offer support there. So our unhouse outreach is very much like our our focus is meaningful engagement with people who use drugs period and meeting them exactly where they're at.
Through her work, Asha has seen countless lies transformed not just by stopping substance use but by finding stability, housing and hope. Her message is clear recovery isn't one size fits all any positive change is a step forward.
(40:47):
We will meet people during street outreach they start working through our coaching program and because they feel safe, they start to ask questions about treatment about medications for opioid use disorder.
People don't want to be struggling but they also don't want to be judged and to be made to feel less than. And so I think if you just sit with people and listen and are curious about them and what they want their life to look like they'll tell you.
(41:21):
And so I think with us at project me were just very person centered and holistic in the way holistic minded in the way that we think about people in that it's always less about the substances and more about what somebody's going through or like trying to manage in their lives or cope with.
(41:42):
I think demystifying harm reduction is very important. Letting people know that harm reduction is evidence-based. Everything that we do is backed by science.
Asha Diss' journey is a testament to the power of resilience, love and community.
(42:03):
From her darkest moments to the incredible work she's doing today she reminds us that everyone deserves support, dignity and the chance to build a life they're proud of.
We are all humans and we're in this fight together. There's any one of us that is perfect in this world. We just need to love each other.
(42:30):
So if you're listening and you're struggling know that you are not alone know that healing is possible. That your story isn't over.
Know that there are people like Asha ready to walk beside you to hold space for your pain and to love you until you can love yourself.
(42:51):
Reach out, get help. Visit projectme-fw.org to learn more and begin your own journey of transformation.
Because in the end we're all just walking each other home.
(43:12):
To me the message is that many times we can't think of ways to help and we don't know of ways to necessarily help.
And that ways to help come in many forms.
I remember being in a room one time and someone asked the question, "Who here in this room works in prevention?"
(43:37):
And about two people raised their hand. And to me is many many many people work in prevention.
And you know if you do education and if you're in a school and you talk about the harms of alcohol and drugs in school that is a form of prevention.
If you educate your children in alcohol and drugs that is a form of prevention and that is a form of harm reduction.
(44:04):
We think it needs to be this very specific kind of program and kind of cans set of activities that people undertake.
And that and while those things are forms of harm reduction like non-surringe programs and syringe programs or whatever.
(44:26):
But many times it is those kind of little things.
To me like a form of harm reduction is if you work in the healthcare system and you're working with someone who has a substance use disorder.
The harm reduction may involve like calling them ahead of time to remind them of their appointments.
(44:47):
So they keep their appointments. Keeping appointments is a form of harm reduction.
Yeah, no, I just I like that how simple that seems where I think sometimes harm reduction gets you know there's a lot of kind of stigma around it.
But I really liked you know your interview talked a lot about prevention and about how you know seat belts and sunscreen and you know those type of things are harm reduction where ASHA my interview same thing.
(45:21):
You know she talked a lot about the different types of harm reduction just to kind of help give people a better understanding of what that means in general.
Right. In many ways the active being apparent is harm reduction.
You try to teach your children how not to get hurt and how you know be careful if you go out with your friends and all of that.
(45:52):
And so I don't think we need to get always kind of caught up in all the kind of the rigid programmatic kinds of things into what it when we talk about harm reduction and prevention.
It always reminds me to do really kind of do a deep think about different ways that I can help you know and that may be having Narcan in my car you know that may be that I tell my own personal story that someone might learn from that you know it may be you know sharing information on a social media post about something cool that's happening in the recovery community.
(46:31):
Because of that whole that whole kind of concept of attracting people to recovery rather than punishing them for their use and I so many things fall into this harm reduction bucket for me.
I totally agree with that too Dean and I love that just you know kind of breaking that stigma down and talking about treating people with dignity and respect.
(46:58):
You know that's harm reduction how we talk to people the words we use you know just sharing our stories like you said I mean this is this podcast is harm reduction you know I love that too just that whole idea you know because we're connecting people to resources you know that's harm reduction it's any way that we're helping people you know connect and save lives.
(47:24):
That's harm reduction so you know and it thinks like you know taking care of your health and taking care of your mental health you know all of that falls in this category of harm reduction and so how do we conceptualize and think you know what can we do to reduce the harm that may come from someone using alcohol or drugs someone we we you know may love or someone we may now.
(47:51):
Yeah I mean that's kind of reaching out and trying to make things just a little bit easier for them that's my takeaway to from hearing your interview Dean is just how simple it is and treating people with dignity and respect I mean I mean that's simple that's something we all can do you know we can all be advocates for harm reduction and not even realize that's that's what it is.
(48:18):
As we wrap up today please look out for you know upcoming episodes so we're planning episodes to talk about substance use disorder and pregnancy and how do we look at how do we treat pregnant women who may use alcohol and drugs and then we'll be also in another upcoming month we'll be taking a look at some drug trends and use patterns and kind of what types of drugs are out there and what are people using and how that may have bearing from different geographical area.
(48:46):
So we're going to look at some of the different geographical areas around the state as well as different populations and so look forward to those kind of coming out in the next few months.
Well thanks everyone for tuning in and thanks to our guest we learned a lot today about harm reduction I know I did so I'm hoping all of the listeners did also and looking forward to a lot of the new topics that we have in the new year coming up so stay tuned and we'll see you next time.
(49:14):
If you feel you need assistance please reach out to a counselor or other healthcare provider supportive loved one or contact resources in the community such as 211 where you can be connected to assistance or talk with a peer or counselor.
(49:36):
Beyond Substance is hosted by Dean Babcock and Jodi Miller. A look at the numbers segment is hosted by Angela Shamblin. Beyond Substance is produced by Angela Shamblin and the executive producer is Shawn P Neal.
[Music]
(50:11):
[Music]
[Music]
(00:04):
Stories connect human beings to human beings.
[Music]
As we realize that our experiences are uniquely our own.
And yet somehow, a part of the bigger picture.
[Music]
These are the stories from a community that is building hope through recovery by going beyond substance.
(00:28):
[Music]
Hi, I'm Dean Babcock.
And I'm Jodi Miller.
We're your co-hosts here on the Beyond Substance Podcast.
In today's episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of harm reduction
and how that impacts individuals and communities.
We're honored to share two incredible conversations that shine a light on the important topic.
(00:54):
I had the chance to sit down with Aisha Diss. She's the founder of project.ME.
She shares her deeply personal journey from adversity to advocacy, showing us the power of resilience
and the impact of meeting people where they are.
And I had the privilege of speaking with Erika Chapman, harm reduction program manager at the Indiana State Department of Health.
(01:18):
She offers a fresh perspective on harm reduction, breaking down the myths, sharing practical strategies,
and reminding us all that even small acts like carrying Narcan and having compassionate conversations can actually save lives.
These interviews remind us that harm reduction is more than a public health strategy.
(01:40):
It's about treating people with dignity and respect, no matter where you are on your journey.
So, rather you're new to harm reduction or already an advocate, there's something here for everyone.
Absolutely, Jodi.
Before we get started with our guests, let's shift over to Angela Shamblin with a look at the numbers.
Today, our guests are talking about harm reduction, specifically programs that don't involve syringes.
(02:12):
There are many ways to reduce risk and negative outcomes for people that use substances.
Indiana had 27 non-surringe harm reduction partners that served almost 26,000 individuals statewide in 2023.
The state also reported there were 16 harm reduction street outreach teams that handed out harm reduction kits and connected individuals to treatment and recovery resources.
(02:35):
They distributed over 34,000 harm reduction kits in State fiscal year 2024.
Since 2020, the State of Indiana, through its partnership with Overdose Lifeline, distributed over a million doses in the lock zone.
At last count, there were also 430 non-locks boxes and 18 non-locks in vending machines across Indiana.
(02:57):
As with all prevention efforts, it's hard to estimate the number of lives saved through these efforts, but we know these efforts have made an impact in our state.
After experiencing year after year of Overdose's rising, fail overdoses began to finally drop in 2023 and they have continued to drop.
In November 2024, the CDC released provisional data showing a 19% reduction in overdose deaths in Indiana for State fiscal year 2024, higher than the national average of 14.
(03:26):
There are many reasons behind that drop, but one of the biggest reasons is Indiana's investment in harm reduction.
We'd like to thank all the people working hard to save lives. Back to you, Dean.
Thanks, Angela. And to all of our listeners, you can learn more about our guests, the podcast staff, and past episodes by visiting our website.
(03:47):
Just look for BeyondSubsysPodcast.org. Now let's get started and hear from our guests.
Today, we're going to be talking with our very special guest from the Indiana State Department of Health, Erika Chapman.
So, Erica, can we begin today by having you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about your background and how you became interested in helping people who may have a substance use disorder?
(04:17):
Yeah, hi. My name is Erika Chapman, and I serve as the harm reduction program manager with the Indiana Department of Health. I'm in the division of HIV, STI, and viral hepatitis.
I've been here for about 18 and a half years. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from St. Mary, the Woods College, and a master of public health from my IU School of Medicine.
(04:39):
And I then got a certification in public health and also a certified health education specialist during my undergraduate is what I really kind of got interested in supporting the health of people using substances.
I have some really dear friends that struggled with substance use disorder, and I also do a lot of internship work in the substance use space.
(05:01):
And so that's just kind of how it got started. I've also in my time had the opportunity to serve on a number of different outbreak responses, including the Scott County HIV and hepatitis C outbreak among people who use substances.
And so between that and this life experience, your advocate of public health because healthy communities are good for each of us both individually and collectively.
(05:28):
And that's great. And today's conversation will fit in fairly well with some of our recent podcasts. And we recently talked with someone from Scott County and talking about what kind of happen in Scott County and previous to this episode.
We have spoken with Dr. Janet Arno about hepatitis C in this kind of population. So this will fit right in today's topic.
(05:52):
We're going to be talking about non syringe harm reduction. And I always kind of put a slash prevention, you know, when I kind of say those words is of some similarities in there.
And in a previous episode of Beyond Substance, we talked with someone from the Marin County Public Health Department related to their safe syringe access program.
(06:14):
But today we're going to take a shift and talk about non syringe harm reduction. So Erica, can we chat for just a few minutes to kind of talk about a little bit about what that is and how it emerged and what's important about that delineation between syringe and non syringe harm reduction.
Sure, non syringe harm reduction programs are those programs that provide the same wide range of services, resources and supplies as syringe service programs, except they don't provide syringes.
(06:48):
Because of the stigma and misunderstanding associated substance use and harm reduction, not every community may be able to go through the legal process to provide syringes.
But they do want to offer resources to help reduce the transmission of HIV viral hepatitis and other bloodborne infections along with a wealth of resources and referrals to the people that may need them.
(07:10):
Examples of non syringe harm reduction supplies can include but are not limited to things like bleach, stair water, cotton filters, wound care items and safer snorting and safer smoking supplies.
Anyone in the community can use these programs as well as syringe service programs to get sharps disposal boxes as well as a place to return those boxes for safe disposal.
(07:32):
Some examples of resources and referrals include but are not limited to food, clothing, medical care, substance use and mental health treatment options, as well as things like safer use education, overdose identification and reversal and a variety of community specific resources.
Most importantly, I want to remind people that everyone can access the services of both syringe service and non syringe harm reduction programs.
(07:58):
People using a list of substances, people using prescribed medications like insulin, vitamins and other injectables.
Or again, people that are just concerned about their loved ones or their community members and who want to learn more and get connected to different resources.
So can you help our listeners understand kind of in practical every day kind of terms, how non syringe harm reduction is operationalized, how does it play out in people's daily lives?
(08:26):
Non syringe harm reduction partners are either local health departments that have opted into the program to get supplies from the Indian Department of Health or our community based organizations that have written a grant to be able to get supplies from us as well as funding to support staff.
And things like outreach activities at the state health department, we provide technical assistance and support for everyone offering harm reduction programming, both syringe service programs and non syringe harm reduction programs.
(08:55):
We are comprised of myself and my colleague Sherry Brooks, we're a little team of two.
We provide technical support ensure data is collected and reported accurately and do anything else that we can to support the health of people using substances and those.
And sometimes the team of two is very powerful.
Yes.
So just a fairly just account for that.
(09:16):
So Erica, can you share some like other forms of harm reduction outside of the substance use disorder realm?
I think sometimes people think all these fancy words like non syringe harm reduction and harm reduction and all of that means something very formal and you know that you have actually programs for it, etc.
(09:37):
And sometimes other examples help make more clear of this concept of harm reduction as it could apply to anything, not just addiction disorders.
This is actually one of my favorite things to talk about.
I don't know if it's the first match today.
Yeah, there are lots of different options for harm reduction.
(10:02):
And then we're going to back up a little bit.
Harm reduction is a public health theory that essentially asserts that we as people are going to do things that are potentially harmful to our health and well being.
But harm reduction can potentially make these activities less harmful.
Some of my favorite non substance use disorder harm reduction examples are things like wearing a seatbelt when you're driving wearing sunscreen when you're out on a hike or in a picnic using condoms and dental dams to prevent HIV and STIs and.
(10:30):
So it's really kind of every day kind of things that we kind of keep ourself more safe.
Yeah, so it doesn't have to be overly sophisticated.
It's kind of like, well, don't touch the hot stove.
Correct.
Yes.
It's just a really simple stuff like making sure that you're brushing your teeth every day.
(10:55):
And again, my favorite is sunscreen because I like to go out and be outside, but I definitely need my sunscreen.
And I think it's something, you know, most people can kind of relate to.
And so it really is, you know, how do you protect yourself and how do you protect other people by by simple acts of being conscious of trying to lessen the damage that may be caused.
(11:19):
So in your mind, certainly I put these things two things together, but it doesn't, I don't want to put words in your mouth and it may not, you know, you may think about it a little bit differently, but do you think harm reduction is kind of a form of prevention.
Absolutely.
You know, in context, harm reduction's entire purpose is to prevent the transmission of infectious diseases and potential injuries associated with using substances or again going out and doing things like a hike.
(11:51):
That sort of thing.
But more broadly, again, the philosophy of harm reduction is to keep us as healthy as possible from the things that we're doing.
I remember going to a meeting one time many, many years ago and the facilitator of the meeting asked the question of the audience who here works in prevention.
(12:14):
And I just kind of remember it really changed my thoughts about that because, you know, certainly only people that worked in formal prevention programs kind of raised their hands and the facilitator kind of reminded everybody that, you know, everyone works in prevention.
In the sense that prevention can be things as simple as you obtain some education about how drugs and alcohol affect your body or affect your mental health or how they damage a community.
(12:45):
It doesn't have to be this very fancy formal kind of thing.
It can be that you calling and check on somebody could actually be considered a form of prevention or Narcan, the distribution or having Narcan at the hand.
I certainly I keep Narcan in my car in case I run into someone where I would need to have to help someone who may be having an overdose.
(13:08):
So you have other kind of thoughts about types of prevention that people may not think about.
Yeah, I mean, I think that you brought up an excellent example in having the lockstone on hand. I would also encourage people to, you know, whether it's for rescue breathing for somebody that might be experiencing an overdose or if someone has to provide CPR to someone having like the face shields.
(13:35):
You can get those on Amazon nowadays or lots of other places, but you know, having something like a face shield is always a great thing.
Certainly, we've learned over the last few years, very simple things like hand washing and having hand sanitizer.
Also, really, just kind of great tools to have on hand that, you know, can prevent transmission of disease and, you know, just keep people as healthy as possible.
(14:01):
We tend to talk a lot about stigma and stigma being such a barrier for people getting help and overall how stigma kind of keeps people out of care and keep people from doing things.
So when you think about that, how do you think that stigma has impacted substance disorder and either harm reduction or recovery in general?
(14:24):
Stigma and misunderstanding of substance use disorder and harm reduction are hands down the biggest barrier and my experience to people seeking support for substance use disorder and why there are not more harm reduction resources available in some harm reduction for substance use disorder specifically has been around and has been heavily studied around the world for more than 40 years now.
(14:50):
And in that time and with research, we found that not only does harm reduction significantly reduce transmission of infectious diseases, it also makes people more likely to be successful in their recovery journey when they're ready for it.
People who participate in service programs are five times more likely to be successful in their recovery journey because they're treated with dignity, respect and connections to people and resources, rather than just being stigmatized and other, which we know can have an adverse effect on mental and physical health.
(15:19):
We assume it's do better when we feel connected and included and stigma and misunderstanding of substance use as a moral failing or something quote unquote bad people do only exacerbates many of the underpinnings of substance use rather than discouraging it.
So we understand that the State Department of Health provides grants for some of this harm reduction work. Can you tell us about these grants and if someone if one of our listeners is kind of interested or their organizations that they work for may be interested in setting up some interventions.
(15:57):
How would they kind of go about that and could you give us an example of that?
So essentially non-surround harm reduction programs are kind of located throughout the state in lots of local health departments and some community based organizations and every one of those looks a little bit different, depending on where they're located in the community in which ones they serve.
(16:20):
So essentially if somebody was interested in starting a service program or a non-surround harm reduction program, they would certainly be welcome to reach out to you myself or their local health department.
And that's probably the best way to kind of get things started.
Can you share with us at all if you can think of any that are being aware of a few good programs that are kind of around the state that really are kind of a kind of model programs or whatever that kind of help this population that that we could include if people want to look at at an example.
(16:56):
On our website, we actually have a map of all the harm reduction sites that are kind of across the state and so folks are welcome to go to the website.
I think I've given you our web address and folks can go and kind of look at all those different programs.
The nice thing about all of the programs within our state are syringe service and non-surround harm reduction programs is that they are all established and run locally.
(17:23):
So each program has its own personality, its own unique flayer for that community.
And so each one is kind of a little bit different and I think that they're all fantastic, right?
They all are there to serve and really to take care of people and connect them with health resources, resources in general, not sort of thing.
(17:50):
And one size doesn't fit all this kind of what I hear you saying.
Correct, yeah. Every community has different needs and so each one of the programs kind of helps to fit those unique needs.
And that's one of the things I really like about how programs have developed over time in the state is that each one really does, they are run by people in those communities.
(18:12):
And so they know how to take care of folks in their communities, their neighbors, their friends, that sort of thing.
And share with our listeners kind of a few critical things for people to think about.
Either a few examples of things that people can actually do to help reduce the impact of substance use disorder in Indiana.
(18:34):
Absolutely. Just by listening to the podcast and educating yourself about the facts and the myths associated with substance use disorder.
And learning about harm reduction listeners, all of us are doing something to reduce that impact.
I'd also like to encourage listeners to not only continue to take opportunities to learn about substance use and harm reduction, but also talk to friends, family, neighbors about what they're learning.
(19:01):
It's always great to learn something, but anytime we can share what we're learning, it spreads that net even further.
And also reach out to your local health department, community-based organization, a lot of recovery communities out there.
Find out if they need volunteers, supplies, if they've got things that they need to help them to be able to provide for program participants that are not currently covered under different funding resources.
(19:28):
We also have a program called Stitching Away Stick Met.
So if you or someone you know Knit, Crocheties, or Soes, we are always collecting handmade hats, scarves, and drawstring bags to provide to syringe service programs.
More information about that program is available on our website, and I provided the link to you as well.
And people can also email me, I'm a Knitter, so that's kind of how it came about.
(19:52):
And so I'm always happy to answer those questions.
But most importantly, spreading love, kindness, dignity, respect, just connecting with other people, like that is the most important thing.
So for all of you Knitters out there, you've heard a call to action.
So please find more information on our show notes and get knitting away.
(20:17):
And as we kind of wrap up here today, Erica, we are asking to ask, is there any kind of special thought or special message that you want to share with our folks that you think is kind of critical when it comes to understanding the impact of substance use disorder in our Indiana communities?
Yes, yes, yes, thank you.
(20:38):
I think I have kind of three main reminders for folks.
The first one is that anyone can be impacted by substance use disorder. It's not a moral shortcoming. It does not mean that someone is a bad person.
It does mean that that person could likely use some extra love and support.
It also means that anyone can access harm reduction programming.
(21:00):
Anyone, even if you're a loved one and you just want to learn more about substance use or harm reduction, you are welcome in our space.
And everyone is welcome in our spaces, harm reduction programs provide resources for all of us and they're not just limited to people using a list of substances.
So that would be one.
The second is you can help us eliminate stigma and reduce the impact of substance use disorder by learning and again talking to and educating others about the myths and facts of substance use disorder and harm reduction.
(21:32):
Finally, the third is that every community in the state and beyond has the ability to support the health and well-being of people using substances and can host their own harm reduction program.
And we here at the Department of Health are here to help. That's what we're here for.
So reach out and we're always happy to connect.
Well, Erica, thank you for your time today. This has been very kind of enlightening and I think hoping for all of our listeners and to kind of expand kind of their thinking about harm reduction and because everyone everyone can help.
(22:07):
And I think, you know, and certainly most people know someone who suffers from a substance use disorder or is in recovery from a substance use disorder.
And there are certainly ways for everyone to help. And so thank you very much for your time this morning.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for doing this work.
(22:29):
It's again, critically important that we end stigma and the best way we can do that is by having these conversations. So thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
[Music]
(22:54):
Asha Dess is the founder and executive director of Project Me, a harm reduction and peer support organization in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
She's also a person in long term recovery with a deeply personal connection to the work that she does.
Her story spans decades beginning with childhood trauma spiraling into substance use and incarceration and ultimately leading to resilience, healing and omission to serve others.
(23:27):
Asha's story begins with a childhood shape by both love and pain.
At just five years old, she experienced trauma that would follow her into adulthood.
I had some childhood sexual abuse from the ages of five to seven.
(23:50):
It was a family friend. And he used some kind of scary religious stuff would tell me that, you know, like Satan would get me if I told him.
I wish if I told anybody and I was very little. That's really negatively impactful for people for a lifetime.
(24:12):
Books became Asha's first escape. As a child, she found solace in the pages of stories, losing herself in other worlds to avoid confronting her own.
But by her teenage years, that escape took a different form, substances.
I think I was probably 13 when I had my first cigarette. I would really say that was like my first experience with, you know, using something that caused me to have a head change.
(24:41):
By the time I was 14, I was pretty regularly using marijuana, alcohol and smoking cigarettes.
Through her teenage years, Asha excelled in school, earning straight A's, but the effects of her trauma lingered.
As she grew older, relationships brought new challenges. At 17, she became a mother, and by 19, she had two children and a growing dependency on alcohol and other substances.
(25:16):
And I was during her second pregnancy that everything began to unravel.
When I was 19, I knew I was having a son, and I got it in my head somehow that I was going to do something to hurt him.
Because he was a boy, and I'm a woman, I felt like because I had been abused, I was going to do something to hurt my son, and I couldn't get it out of my head, even though I didn't have any feelings like that.
(25:43):
I just had it in my head because I had suffered trauma. I was going to do that to my child and I told somebody.
I told my mom about why I was freaking out because she didn't understand what was going on because I already had one child, and I was freaking out about this second baby.
So I told my mom about the abuse, and very shortly after that, I got my first OWA, which I 100% see a correlation between those things now, because I was spinning out.
(26:17):
I used alcohol very heavily, but I didn't necessarily like alcohol. It was more like the lifestyle. I liked going out and like drinking and being social with my friends.
I did that a lot, and when I started drinking, I didn't stop. So I didn't necessarily have to drink every day or anything like that, but absolutely when I did, I was going to get black out drunk, probably fight somebody and not remember anything from the night before.
(26:50):
Shortly after, Ash's life spiraled further, another DUI, and a felony charge deepened her struggles. An abusive relationship added another layer of pain and disempowerment.
She was emotionally abusive and physically abusive, and all of the things, and I just had no self worth, and had my first and second OWA. So I got my second one when I was 22, which was my first felony.
(27:22):
And that was shortly after I had my third child too, so I was just, again, spinning out, but I had been involved with the criminal legal system for about 10 years when all was said and done, because I would literally get revoked off of probation for committing the next, like the next charge or getting the next charge, get revoked, and then have to deal with whatever that next charge was.
(27:51):
On top of dealing with the revocation, and I had to say that until then.
After nearly a decade of cycling through the criminal legal system, Asha found herself in prison for many incarceration is just another chapter in a long cycle.
(28:18):
But for Asha, it became a turning point.
I did intake at Rockville, which I think women still go to Rockville for intake, and I was there for about five weeks.
I was very low level. I never had any like violent felonies or anything, and so I got a job at Turkey Run, and I worked at Turkey Run State Part.
(28:43):
Why was it Rockville for just a couple of weeks, and then I was transferred to Madison, and that was before Madison had offense around it, and that was really weird to me.
You would think that would be like, oh, this place is nice and free. No, it was like, I don't know. Everybody was just kind of doing what they did, and there weren't a lot of guards around, and I didn't care for it.
(29:10):
It was just very disconcerting to me. I felt like I was always going to get in trouble because people were just smoking in the dorms and just doing things that you weren't supposed to be doing in prison.
And at this point, I had already decided, like, I am done. I'm done with all this. I just want to get through this the right way and be done. Get this behind me.
(29:32):
So then from Madison, I went to the Indiana Department of Corrections Work Release in Indianapolis. I wasn't there for a super long time either, because I had a warrant, so I could no longer be at Indiana Department of Corrections Work Release.
So they took me to Indiana Women's Prison. There were people there that were serving life, and that was very impactful for me, too, to know that I was in a place where people were never going to be leaving.
(30:01):
I had my mind made up that I was never going to be back in this place, and just to know that there are people who don't have a choice, like they are there for the rest of their lives, was heartbreaking for me.
Then I got brought back to Allen County for the last warrant that I had.
With no formal recovery programs to guide her, Asha created her own roadmap. She began planning for a life free of the patterns that had let her there.
(30:33):
There was somebody that was at home detention named Norr, that was a person with lived experience, and she was the only person that ever even like touched maybe getting through to me when I was going through all of this, and she just told me you don't have to do this.
Like you know you have choices, and if you don't want this life, you don't have to keep doing this. She was really the only person in my life that had lived experience, and that was meaningful to me, that she was somebody who was in recovery, who was talking to me about this stuff.
(31:10):
When you don't have any hope, just somebody letting you know that there is hope, and that they see you can mean everything.
Asha set her plan into motion. She saved money, secured housing, and enrolled in college to study medical assisting, but life wasn't quite done testing her.
(31:31):
The loss of both of her parents during this time could have derailed her progress, but instead Asha leaned into her own resilience.
My father passed away when I was in the Allen County Jail waiting to go to court for the last charge that I had, and then my mom passed away that December, and I was released from work release in February when my mom was on hospice me and my sisters were taking turns just caring for her.
(32:02):
I realized that the medical field maybe wasn't for me. I thought, "Okay, well, I do want to help people. What do I want to do?"
In my head, I wanted to help people who had suffered from trauma.
I went to college for a human services degree. My advisor told me that even people who have felonies can have good career paths in human services.
(32:31):
There are more opportunities for people who have a history in the human services field.
I tell people that I came home and I just put everything out there. That way, because I felt so embarrassed, and I was so ashamed, and I felt so guilty, I lost my babies, I went to prison, just all of these things.
(32:54):
I thought the best thing I can do for me is just put it all out there, and it will act like a natural filter. If people don't like it, then they cannot be in my life.
If people do stick around, then those are my people. That's how I feel felt then, and that's still how I feel today.
I put it all out there. My successes, all of the things I was having trouble with, that I miss my babies, that I was having trouble getting to college, because I couldn't get my driver's license reinstated.
(33:28):
Every single time I paid a ticket, I had a new insurance fee to pay.
All of those things, and I'm sharing all of this, well, I don't know this at the time, but people were watching that. People were seeing me say, "I have four felonies, and I got a job at scan."
When I got my job at scan, I had people message me from all over, like on Facebook.
(33:55):
How did you get a job at scan? Do they know you have felonies? How do I get a job like that? What do I do? One of my biggest coping skills when I got home from prison was taking pictures.
Because I could take my camera any time I wanted to, and I could go take pictures of whatever I wanted to, and then I would spend hours editing pictures.
(34:19):
Then I turned my photography into a business. People started asking me if I would do their senior photos or their family photos.
And so I started doing that, and then I formed an LLC, and when I was getting my bachelor's degree, I was just doing photography. I didn't work otherwise.
So I was able to supplement our income so that I could finish my degree. I did that, and then when I graduated from college, I got a job at a social services agency here in Fort Wayne.
(34:53):
And when my fingerprints came back for DCS, because I was a, I did like supervised visits and home-based case work. DCS said, "Hey, we don't need you to terminate her."
But we do need to know like how she is not the person that we see on paper. And so I had to write an essay, and they didn't suspend me, but I couldn't do any direct services.
(35:18):
So I could do like trainings and stuff like that.
As Asha built a stable life, she realized her story could inspire others. She started a Facebook page called Project Me to share recovery resources and messages of hope.
What began as a small outlet soon grew into something much larger.
(35:43):
People just started reaching out and saw I was working at scan at the time and I moved on to Brightpoint in their supportive services for veteran families program.
And during that time, I attended a forensic support class and heard about the peer recovery coach credential.
(36:05):
I just got the sense of like, that is what you're supposed to be doing. Like that is what you were supposed to be doing. And I put all my attention and efforts into that.
So I was working at Brightpoint. I immediately reached out to see about a scholarship for the training and certification. And I got a scholarship for the whole credential.
(36:30):
And got a job at day County Drug Prevention Coalition as their Allen County coach.
When COVID hit, I lost people. I lost people to overdose. And I knew about this narcan thing. You know, then I don't think anybody was really calling it in a lock zone.
(36:52):
And you couldn't get it here in Fort Wayne, not through the Allen County Department of Health. It was just really hard to get it. And so I registered as a distributor. And we were the first distributor in Fort Wayne that was registered outside of the Department of Health and the pharmacies.
And I was getting doses from a friend in Texas. So she was sending me like 20, 10 doses when she had them so that I could hand them out.
(37:19):
And then as soon as I think when overdose lifeline got their funding to start pushing out narcan to the state.
We because we were a registered distributor, we were able to start getting narcan and pushing it out. And so that was like my first kind of activity as project me outside of just kind of the general recovery support and loose coaching.
(37:44):
After I had my supervisor credential, I found somebody that could supervise me so that I could start coaching.
Today, Project Me is a regional recovery hub serving eight counties in Indiana. Asha and her team provide everything from street outreach and safe use kids to one-on-one coaching and harm reduction education.
(38:06):
Once upon a time there weren't seatbelts. People drove in cars, willing-nilly, no seatbelts, but car accidents were a leading cause of adult deaths.
So somebody said, "Hey, what if we had seatbelts? What if we had something where people were buckled in? It wouldn't necessarily fly through the windshield when they were a car accident?"
(38:29):
It's harm reduction. What that does is it reduce the risk of harm or death for people who choose to use cars.
Sunscreen is reducing the risk of harm or death for people who choose to enjoy the sun because skin cancer is a leading cause of death for adults.
(38:50):
Helmets is harm reduction. People knock their heads off and get concussions and traumatic brain injuries and all kind of things happen with sports related injuries.
But harm reduction says we can reduce the risk of harm or death for folks if they wear something to protect their heads.
So for people who use drugs, which is the population, the one of the populations that we serve at Project Me,
(39:19):
we reduce the risk of harm or death for people who use drugs by offering them safe supplies so that that decreases their risk of transferring communicable diseases to one another and to the community at large.
So our harm reduction street outreach team, we do unhouse street outreach where we go to all of the community meals that exist in Fort Wayne and we have at least one each evening or each day.
(39:46):
So we rotate those, but we try to hit as many as we can each week. We also do in can't outreach every week and we have a relationship with a city where they will reach out to us before they go evict an encampment so that we can go offer some support to them and kind of give them a heads up so they don't lose all of their stuff.
(40:07):
And then we visit hotels where people are staying so that we can offer support there. So our unhouse outreach is very much like our our focus is meaningful engagement with people who use drugs period and meeting them exactly where they're at.
Through her work, Asha has seen countless lies transformed not just by stopping substance use but by finding stability, housing and hope. Her message is clear recovery isn't one size fits all any positive change is a step forward.
(40:47):
We will meet people during street outreach they start working through our coaching program and because they feel safe, they start to ask questions about treatment about medications for opioid use disorder.
People don't want to be struggling but they also don't want to be judged and to be made to feel less than. And so I think if you just sit with people and listen and are curious about them and what they want their life to look like they'll tell you.
(41:21):
And so I think with us at project me were just very person centered and holistic in the way holistic minded in the way that we think about people in that it's always less about the substances and more about what somebody's going through or like trying to manage in their lives or cope with.
(41:42):
I think demystifying harm reduction is very important. Letting people know that harm reduction is evidence-based. Everything that we do is backed by science.
Asha Diss' journey is a testament to the power of resilience, love and community.
(42:03):
From her darkest moments to the incredible work she's doing today she reminds us that everyone deserves support, dignity and the chance to build a life they're proud of.
We are all humans and we're in this fight together. There's any one of us that is perfect in this world. We just need to love each other.
(42:30):
So if you're listening and you're struggling know that you are not alone know that healing is possible. That your story isn't over.
Know that there are people like Asha ready to walk beside you to hold space for your pain and to love you until you can love yourself.
(42:51):
Reach out, get help. Visit projectme-fw.org to learn more and begin your own journey of transformation.
Because in the end we're all just walking each other home.
(43:12):
To me the message is that many times we can't think of ways to help and we don't know of ways to necessarily help.
And that ways to help come in many forms.
I remember being in a room one time and someone asked the question, "Who here in this room works in prevention?"
(43:37):
And about two people raised their hand. And to me is many many many people work in prevention.
And you know if you do education and if you're in a school and you talk about the harms of alcohol and drugs in school that is a form of prevention.
If you educate your children in alcohol and drugs that is a form of prevention and that is a form of harm reduction.
(44:04):
We think it needs to be this very specific kind of program and kind of cans set of activities that people undertake.
And that and while those things are forms of harm reduction like non-surringe programs and syringe programs or whatever.
(44:26):
But many times it is those kind of little things.
To me like a form of harm reduction is if you work in the healthcare system and you're working with someone who has a substance use disorder.
The harm reduction may involve like calling them ahead of time to remind them of their appointments.
(44:47):
So they keep their appointments. Keeping appointments is a form of harm reduction.
Yeah, no, I just I like that how simple that seems where I think sometimes harm reduction gets you know there's a lot of kind of stigma around it.
But I really liked you know your interview talked a lot about prevention and about how you know seat belts and sunscreen and you know those type of things are harm reduction where ASHA my interview same thing.
(45:21):
You know she talked a lot about the different types of harm reduction just to kind of help give people a better understanding of what that means in general.
Right. In many ways the active being apparent is harm reduction.
You try to teach your children how not to get hurt and how you know be careful if you go out with your friends and all of that.
(45:52):
And so I don't think we need to get always kind of caught up in all the kind of the rigid programmatic kinds of things into what it when we talk about harm reduction and prevention.
It always reminds me to do really kind of do a deep think about different ways that I can help you know and that may be having Narcan in my car you know that may be that I tell my own personal story that someone might learn from that you know it may be you know sharing information on a social media post about something cool that's happening in the recovery community.
(46:31):
Because of that whole that whole kind of concept of attracting people to recovery rather than punishing them for their use and I so many things fall into this harm reduction bucket for me.
I totally agree with that too Dean and I love that just you know kind of breaking that stigma down and talking about treating people with dignity and respect.
(46:58):
You know that's harm reduction how we talk to people the words we use you know just sharing our stories like you said I mean this is this podcast is harm reduction you know I love that too just that whole idea you know because we're connecting people to resources you know that's harm reduction it's any way that we're helping people you know connect and save lives.
(47:24):
That's harm reduction so you know and it thinks like you know taking care of your health and taking care of your mental health you know all of that falls in this category of harm reduction and so how do we conceptualize and think you know what can we do to reduce the harm that may come from someone using alcohol or drugs someone we we you know may love or someone we may now.
(47:51):
Yeah I mean that's kind of reaching out and trying to make things just a little bit easier for them that's my takeaway to from hearing your interview Dean is just how simple it is and treating people with dignity and respect I mean I mean that's simple that's something we all can do you know we can all be advocates for harm reduction and not even realize that's that's what it is.
(48:18):
As we wrap up today please look out for you know upcoming episodes so we're planning episodes to talk about substance use disorder and pregnancy and how do we look at how do we treat pregnant women who may use alcohol and drugs and then we'll be also in another upcoming month we'll be taking a look at some drug trends and use patterns and kind of what types of drugs are out there and what are people using and how that may have bearing from different geographical area.
(48:46):
So we're going to look at some of the different geographical areas around the state as well as different populations and so look forward to those kind of coming out in the next few months.
Well thanks everyone for tuning in and thanks to our guest we learned a lot today about harm reduction I know I did so I'm hoping all of the listeners did also and looking forward to a lot of the new topics that we have in the new year coming up so stay tuned and we'll see you next time.
(49:14):
If you feel you need assistance please reach out to a counselor or other healthcare provider supportive loved one or contact resources in the community such as 211 where you can be connected to assistance or talk with a peer or counselor.
(49:36):
Beyond Substance is hosted by Dean Babcock and Jodi Miller. A look at the numbers segment is hosted by Angela Shamblin. Beyond Substance is produced by Angela Shamblin and the executive producer is Shawn P Neal.
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