June 8, 2025 • 25 mins
One of the biggest movies during the summer of 1980 was "Urban Cowboy." Want to know more about the history of this legendary movie? Bob talks with the legendary Sanford Brokaw about his role in country music history including the legendary movie "Urban Cowboy." Here's part one of this insight into one of country music's most influential movies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're gonna love this story. Hi, it's Bob Piket. Welcome
to Bob Pickett Radio. I've been sitting on this interview
now for about a week now, Sandy broke off. Just amazing.
You talk about a man who's been there at the
start of some of the great movements in country music history.
For example, you know, the summer marks the forty fifth
anniversary of the movie Urban Cowboy. How did it happen? Well,
(00:24):
I went to my friend Sandy for the interview. Listen
to part one of this conversation Bob Pickett Radio. You know,
I've spent a number of years in radio, close to fifty.
But the man that we're going to visit with today,
he's a friend. Now, I've never met you in person, Sandy,
but I feel like I know you pretty well. You
and I have had some great conversations over the years, right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah. That's one of the joys of what I do.
I get to talk to people all as all across
the country, in the US and Canada, and it's just
really fun to when you can connect with somebody eight
nine is uh uh. It brings me a lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Well, Sandy, Sandy broke off, that's who's on the line
with us right now. You and I have connected over
a lot of different subjects. I love for Coffrey music.
The other day we were talking about hockey and baseball
of all things. But when Sandy calls, it's a I'm
gonna spend a lot of time just soaking up all
of your stories and and that's I got to keep
reminding myself through this podcast today that this that were
(01:24):
that were recording this, This is just not like a
normal conversation that that you and I have. But I'm
going to invite our listeners to evesdrop on our conversation
today and it's and you're gonna tell I think there's
gonna be a lot of revelations, and you and I
may have a connection which I found out today and
I'm going to share that a little bit later. But
(01:44):
I think that you and I, well, I just let's
just get into it right now. You don't know Sandy personally,
but I know that you've known of a lot of projects,
a lot of people that he has represented it in
throughout the years, and probably in Texas, I'm gonna say
it's probably Mickey Gilly, right, yeah, and shut withoo. Crier
(02:05):
and of course the movie Urban Cowboys. So take us
back in time. How did you first get associated with Mickey?
I know you were with Mickey for over thirty years,
is that right?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, it goes back to nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Way back, Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
My twin brother, David decided he didn't want to be
a lawyer. So my father, who was a big time
agent at William Morris, he got him a job with
this PR firm one since that boulevard. The guy's name
was Jay Bernstein. And so David roll up his sleeves
(02:48):
and started working there. And within a short period of
time he had gotten close with Ricardo Montlebond, Lou Rawls,
and Loretta Lynn.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wow. Pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And so David left Jay's office and those were
our first three clients. And and you know, it's you know,
when you work for people on that level, it's hard
not to do a good job, not to look good.
You get like sort of an instant uh, you know,
(03:32):
people's you know, instant credibility.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, so.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know, as you go down the road, we all
need somebody to give us a shot. And Loretta Lynn's
manager is a guy named David Scheppner, and David and
Loretta gave us a shot. They opened the door to
country music and and we walked right into it. And
at that time I was still working at William Morris.
(03:59):
I would there. I was in the mail room and
training program from June seventy one until summer seventy three.
But I remember one night there was there was a
country music version of the Midnight Special. Bert Shugerman, who
(04:21):
was a producer, had love country music, and so I
showed up. It was at the old NBC studios in Bourbony,
and I just I loved it. I mean, I thought
that people were great the music. I loved the music,
and it just felt like a fit to me. And
(04:44):
you know in nineteen seventy two and seventy three that
I think music was morphing into some areas that weren't
appealing to me, like heavy metal and kiss and stuff
like that, and I said, this is really not for me.
So so it's February seventy four I started working with David,
(05:07):
and I can tell you that no one has had
a bigger impact on my adult life than Loretta. When
how's that, Well, she opened the door to country music
and it was a perfect fit for me. And if
(05:28):
it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have I don't think
I would have been in country music.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But it's just.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm trying to think what my life would have been
like if I never met her. I can trace just
about everything going back to her, to our association with her.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It was just just, you know, mind boggling. But there
was a previous and we'll get there was a previous
association with Loretta and also your father, who's a big
wig at William Moore. So and when it came time
to negotiate her book, coal Miner's daughter, your dad had
a pretty big part in that and turning to a movie,
didn't he.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, my dad negotiation. Uh he took Hole miner his
daughter and negotiated Loretta's book book or the deal to
uh to turn it into a movie. Yeah, so that
was kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah. I still remember being a theater in Lovick and
watching that movie just amazed. And I was barely involved
in country music, but that's when I knew that there
was something there with country music. That was my life
right there, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, And I think my father was a certain a
funny story way was sort of destined to have to
have a relationship with Loretta Lynn because you know, Loretta
talks about her mother. When she was pregnant with her
With with Loretta, she had these pictures of some movie
(07:01):
starts up on the wall. It's a newspaper clippings, and
one of them was Loretta Young. So I'm going to
name my I'm gonna name my daughter Loretta. And so
fast forward to the early fifties. My my dad was
in on the ground floor of television and one of
(07:21):
the things that he did was he would he went
to h you know, the television did to our society
what the internet's done in the past twenty five thirty years.
It's just everything. Everything changed, and you know that, you know,
people weren't going to go to movies anywhere when they
could they could sit home and watch something on TV.
(07:44):
So Loretta Young became a client at William Morris and
my father went to her and convinced her that you should,
you should go into TV. And so he got you know,
he he put together the Loretta right a Young Show, Wow,
and it was on I mean it was it was
(08:05):
on every Sunday night. And one of the big deals was.
So she would open this door and come out with
with uh and some fancy interesting dress, and you know,
she was an iconic star. I mean she was, she
was huge, but but you know, the movie business was
changing and TV was coming on. So I always thought
(08:26):
that that was kind of an ironic.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So that's that's cool. Yeah, that's that's very ironic. Listen.
Another story about your dad, which there's a there's a
great book about your father, and the name of the book.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Is Driving Maryland The Life and Times The life and
times of legendary Hollywood agent Norman Broke.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
All your dad drove Marilyn Monroe was part of her
career also, right, Yeah, ibelievable.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, because because our family we you know, his his mother, Uh,
they were they were entertainers in Russia in eighteen hundreds
and they came here in eighteen ninety eight, which my
dad used to point out that was the same year
that William Morris opened. And so they were performers and
(09:15):
they were at vaudeville and my grandmother taught her brother,
John Johnny Hyde how to represent talent and he was
good at it, and he was at William Morris from
nineteen twenty six to nineteen the end in nineteen fifty
(09:37):
and he was really a big time Hollywood agent during
the golden age of Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
My dad had moved out here with his mother in
nineteen forty two and he wanted to work at William Morris.
So his brother called Johnny Hyde and said, wants a job.
So on July seventh, nineteen forty three, Johnny put Norman
(10:06):
into William Morris mail room and he just loved it,
you know, he was it was a great match for him,
and he you know, it was the only job he
ever had. And Johnny was found. He was in Palm
Springs in nineteen forty seven and he saw Marilyn Monroe
(10:26):
for the first time and he brought her to William
Morris and he left his wife for her.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And it got a lot of the early jobs for
her and Norman. Because Johnny had this heart disease. Norman
did a lot of the leg work and he would
drive her around and and and do a lot of
(10:55):
nuts and bolts things for it. In nineteen fifty two,
he booked her on a TV show called Lights Camera Action,
and they had three actors and each one would get
a scene to act out whoever got the best did
the best job, got a kinescope of that scene, and
(11:16):
she got it. So they were at the NBC studios
at Sunset and Vine, and so Norman took her down
to the Hollywood Brown Derby, which was at Hollywood and
Vine to have a little bite to eat. And while
they're sitting there, Fred Mertz of is love Lucy that guy? Okay,
(11:37):
William Frawley comes up to my dad and he said
to him, I'm with Joe Dee and he wants to
meet this lady.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So Marilyn says to my dad, who's Joe d He says,
it's Joe DiMaggio and he's one of the greatest baseball
players of all time. So he said, we'll come by
when we're done, we'll come by and say hello. So
Norman introduced Marilyn Monroe to Jodomagiel.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Your Dan's responsible for that relationship. Yeah, pretty cool man,
Pretty cool? Pretty pretty Yeah. Okay, now let's get back
now again. That book is on my to do list
to read this summer. But let's get back to the
connection country music. You grew up in an environment where
I mean everything comes natural to you. You're one of
the best publicers I've ever met, and thanks, you know,
(12:31):
a great conversationist. So it was kind of destined for
you also to be involved with all these stars in
country music. And it starts again, We're going to go back,
jump back a few minutes to Loretto.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
In Yeah, So getting back to country music. Conway Twitty
got booked in the Gillies Club one night, and this.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Is I think nineteen seventy four, so this is way
before Urban Cowboy, way before Nicky Gilly was a big.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Star, wait before. So Conway's playing Gilly's that night, and
it suddenly dawns on him, says, jeez, that this this
place is associated with Mickey Gilly, who's got this big
hit with a room full of roses. So Conway called
(13:21):
Jimmy Jay, who was the head of Conway. Loretta had
an agency called United Talent, and so Conway called Jimmy
Jay and he said, he said, I want you to
to sign Mickey Gilly to our, to our, I want
to represent him. So Gilly signed up with Conway and
(13:42):
Loretta and this seventy four seventy five, and he was
making thirty five hundred a night, thirty five hundred for
when he opened for them. And at some point David
Skepner said the Sherwood Crier, he said, you should hire
(14:04):
the bro cause they will get stuff for you. And
I came to the office one day and David said
to me, my twin brother says, I just signed Mickey Gilly. Yeah,
I didn't know who he was. I said, okay. So
Skeptner told me, he said, you you will not believe
(14:26):
that club. So I booked a flight down the Hobby
Airport in South Houston and somebody picked me up at
the airport and pulled me up, drove me up to
Gilly's Club.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You know it was.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It was not by design. It was not a paved
parking lot.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, I was going to ask you about that because
I went there in the late eighties, mid eighties. Actually,
and I'm not going to use the word duff. Okay, maybe,
I mean there wasn't spectacular. It wasn't like a Vegas
club at all. So I can't imagine what looked like
back in the early seventies.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Well, Sherwood felt that that sort of added to the ambiance. Okay,
So he didn't hit So the parking lot was some paved.
So the guy drops me off and and Sherwood walks
out in front of the club and I shook his hand,
and my life has never been the same since.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So that started an over thirty year relationship with Mickey
Hadley and Sherwood. Crier. Yeah, your first visit to Pasady
of Texas that I think you found out probably why
they called it Stinkadena because of the smell of oil
in the air, didn't you.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well they have a bunch Yeah, they have a bunch
of refineries there.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, paper mill and I guess oil refineries. And you know,
but I mean, I grew up and I still live
in Studio City, which is which is I'm near North Hollywood, right,
you know, when I walk my front yard and if
I look up to the to the south, up on
(16:11):
the hill, I can see this this tall building and
says it says, I'm there a NBC Universal Comcast. So
I'm I live like a couple of miles away from
Universal City and then a couple of miles on the
other ways. Uh it is the old Republic Pictures which
(16:32):
eventually became uh A CBS Radford and and that's where
you know they did leave it to Beaver, the Roseanne Show,
and and and Seinfeld and so I'm in the middle
of of you know, I'm right in the middle of
everything district. Yeah, and there was there was this the
(16:54):
whole Texas thing really appealed to me. I I just
it's just I felt I just fell in love with it,
and I fell in love with with Mickey Gilly's story.
I just I thought it was was great, you know,
it was I had a lot of things to to
mount my work on. I mean, here's he had. The
time I started working for him, he had four number
(17:16):
one records in a row. He had the nightclub, which
which was even back then, was starting to it had
a certain cachet about it. He's cousins with Jerry Lee Lewis,
He's cousins with Swagger, and he kept getting hit records and.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
He was a king in Texas at the time. He
was the king in Texas radio, and everybody knew Mickey Gilly. Yeah. Yeah,
but you were there to take him to the next level.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah. I was happened to be at the right place
at the right time, you know. And it's just again,
when you're in the middle of stuff like that, it's
hard not to. It's hard not to look good. But
you know, I went to work every day. What can
I do for Gilly? How can I get what can
I do to get him to the to the next level?
(18:09):
And I just was I loved his story, I loved
the music and and I had and it was just
fun being a part of it. I love going to
the night at Gilly's club, and I became friends with
everybody there and and eventually I just I just stay
at Sherwood's house, you know, I mean we we we
(18:31):
became very very close and and uh uh you know
it's we were moving along, you know. I just just
every day I looked for something I could do to
get the word out about him, like like one one.
It was a great collaboration between Sherwood and Gilly and
(18:52):
David and I. We you know, everybody had an idea
and it was all part of what what what sl
led to the movie?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well how did that movie come up? Because it's if
you started with him in the early seventies, the movie
he was roughly filmed about seventy eight seventy nine, is
that right, That's right. I made.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
What happened was there was a Clay Felker was a
brilliant editor with Esquire magazine. He had a knack for
doing stories that were so interesting and touched the nerves
on the national level that they ended up being made
(19:39):
into films. He had a couple three before he got
to US. So in nineteen seventy eight he goes to
Aaron Latham. Aaron was a great writer, and he said,
you know, one of the this, this is the whole
(20:00):
essence of urban cowboy right here is one of the
great aspects of the American mythology is the cowboy. Right
and here we are in nineteen seventy eight. I want
you to go to Texas and find out how this
(20:20):
this mythology manifests itself today. And somehow, I don't know
how this happened. But Aaron ends up at Gillies Club
and Sherwood calls me. He says, there's a Yankee here
and he's going to do a story for Esquire. But
he doesn't want it, doesn't really want to, he doesn't
(20:44):
really need to talk to Gilly. And I say, hey,
just like roll out the red carpet. That's that's great,
you know. And so what Aaron deduced was, you have
all these these people in Houston, they're working in the refineries,
the factories. Uh. There there's working in offices. Uh. He
(21:07):
had a great cross section of people. And and and
then a few times a month they put on their
cowboy boots and the jeans and a belt buckle on hat,
cowboy hat, and they head out to Gillies to uh
to act out, uh, to be.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Like a cowboy. Especially.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, and you know when with Gillies, uh Sherwood. Sherwood
had Uh the place was called was remember what it
was called? It was it didn't have walls, and it
got he got rained out one night, so he went
(21:49):
down the street to see Gilly and he said to him, Uh,
once you, once you come to work with me. And
Gilly came over there. He said, well, you need to
tear this thing down. He said, well, what do you
want me to do? So Gilly gave Sure with it
like a bunch of ideas. And next thing, he knows everything.
He asked Sure what to do? What he's doing, you know?
(22:11):
And and so they get in the business together seventy one.
And Gilly was a great entertainer.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And pretty sure he was a smart businessman. I'm very smart.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, so uh, he's Gilly said, we need, you know,
should have pool tables in here where people can play pool.
And so the pool tables ended up, you know, it
was with all these all these pinball machines all around
the club. At some point, Surewood gets the idea to
(22:46):
put in a mechanical bull. That was Sherwood's idea, really,
and and so that that was that one idea led
to everything.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, that let be right. He did
lead every and of course the movie and suddenly there
were mechanical bulls in every nightclub in America. Yeah, which
I think sure we probably had a part of that too,
didn't Eve. He was smart. He bought him too. That
business he made him. See there what I'm talking about,
shrewd businessman?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah he was, he was. He was making them. And
and so so Aaron goes in there and he says,
what these these these guys, they come out here and
they have a few beers, and they chase women, and
they go on to go out and dance and they
(23:37):
and they ride this mechanical bull. So he he got this,
you know, he got the story and wrote it up
and September the twelfth, nineteen seventy eight. The cover Esquire
said the Ballad of the Urban Cowboy, and it was unbelievable.
(24:02):
And Irving, A's off the big manager record executive. He
got in on it and I think he I think
he had he bought the rights to it or something.
And that day he called me and he said, can
you come over here? I went, yeah, you know, I mean,
it's like I was so excited to have an audience
(24:23):
with the great Irving. Irving his career was built on
his He was the manager of the Eagles in the
from the early.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Seventies and Joe Walsh.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so all those guys he was and he's still
he's more powerful today than ever. So uh, Irving came
down looked at everything. And one day David and I
and our attorney was walking down wilsterm Boulevard in Beverly
Hills and we went into this room with Irving and
(24:59):
Paramount and we it was we hashed out the deal.
And I said to Irving and said, you know, we've
got this guy in the house band and I'd just
like to have at least one cut on the soundtrack
for him, as his name is Johnny Lee. So you
(25:20):
know what that turned out to be Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, wait a minute, isn't that amazing? And listen, we've
gotten part two coming up next week. You're gonna want
to hear some more behind the scenes action of the
movie Urban Cowboy. Join me for part two and join
me on Instagram. By the way, also and x I'm
at Bob Pickett Radio on Instagram at xit and you
can find me. Got a YouTube channel too, Bob Pickett Radio.
(25:43):
See you next week for another episode of Bob Pickett Radio.
Part two of our conversation with Sandy Brokeoff about the
movie Urban Cowboy.
You're gonna love this story. Hi, it's Bob Piket. Welcome
to Bob Pickett Radio. I've been sitting on this interview
now for about a week now, Sandy broke off. Just amazing.
You talk about a man who's been there at the
start of some of the great movements in country music history.
For example, you know, the summer marks the forty fifth
anniversary of the movie Urban Cowboy. How did it happen? Well,
(00:24):
I went to my friend Sandy for the interview. Listen
to part one of this conversation Bob Pickett Radio. You know,
I've spent a number of years in radio, close to fifty.
But the man that we're going to visit with today,
he's a friend. Now, I've never met you in person, Sandy,
but I feel like I know you pretty well. You
and I have had some great conversations over the years, right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah. That's one of the joys of what I do.
I get to talk to people all as all across
the country, in the US and Canada, and it's just
really fun to when you can connect with somebody eight
nine is uh uh. It brings me a lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Well, Sandy, Sandy broke off, that's who's on the line
with us right now. You and I have connected over
a lot of different subjects. I love for Coffrey music.
The other day we were talking about hockey and baseball
of all things. But when Sandy calls, it's a I'm
gonna spend a lot of time just soaking up all
of your stories and and that's I got to keep
reminding myself through this podcast today that this that were
(01:24):
that were recording this, This is just not like a
normal conversation that that you and I have. But I'm
going to invite our listeners to evesdrop on our conversation
today and it's and you're gonna tell I think there's
gonna be a lot of revelations, and you and I
may have a connection which I found out today and
I'm going to share that a little bit later. But
(01:44):
I think that you and I, well, I just let's
just get into it right now. You don't know Sandy personally,
but I know that you've known of a lot of projects,
a lot of people that he has represented it in
throughout the years, and probably in Texas, I'm gonna say
it's probably Mickey Gilly, right, yeah, and shut withoo. Crier
(02:05):
and of course the movie Urban Cowboys. So take us
back in time. How did you first get associated with Mickey?
I know you were with Mickey for over thirty years,
is that right?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, it goes back to nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Way back, Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
My twin brother, David decided he didn't want to be
a lawyer. So my father, who was a big time
agent at William Morris, he got him a job with
this PR firm one since that boulevard. The guy's name
was Jay Bernstein. And so David roll up his sleeves
(02:48):
and started working there. And within a short period of
time he had gotten close with Ricardo Montlebond, Lou Rawls,
and Loretta Lynn.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wow. Pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And so David left Jay's office and those were
our first three clients. And and you know, it's you know,
when you work for people on that level, it's hard
not to do a good job, not to look good.
You get like sort of an instant uh, you know,
(03:32):
people's you know, instant credibility.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, so.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know, as you go down the road, we all
need somebody to give us a shot. And Loretta Lynn's
manager is a guy named David Scheppner, and David and
Loretta gave us a shot. They opened the door to
country music and and we walked right into it. And
at that time I was still working at William Morris.
(03:59):
I would there. I was in the mail room and
training program from June seventy one until summer seventy three.
But I remember one night there was there was a
country music version of the Midnight Special. Bert Shugerman, who
(04:21):
was a producer, had love country music, and so I
showed up. It was at the old NBC studios in Bourbony,
and I just I loved it. I mean, I thought
that people were great the music. I loved the music,
and it just felt like a fit to me. And
(04:44):
you know in nineteen seventy two and seventy three that
I think music was morphing into some areas that weren't
appealing to me, like heavy metal and kiss and stuff
like that, and I said, this is really not for me.
So so it's February seventy four I started working with David,
(05:07):
and I can tell you that no one has had
a bigger impact on my adult life than Loretta. When
how's that, Well, she opened the door to country music
and it was a perfect fit for me. And if
(05:28):
it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have I don't think
I would have been in country music.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But it's just.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm trying to think what my life would have been
like if I never met her. I can trace just
about everything going back to her, to our association with her.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It was just just, you know, mind boggling. But there
was a previous and we'll get there was a previous
association with Loretta and also your father, who's a big
wig at William Moore. So and when it came time
to negotiate her book, coal Miner's daughter, your dad had
a pretty big part in that and turning to a movie,
didn't he.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, my dad negotiation. Uh he took Hole miner his
daughter and negotiated Loretta's book book or the deal to
uh to turn it into a movie. Yeah, so that
was kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah. I still remember being a theater in Lovick and
watching that movie just amazed. And I was barely involved
in country music, but that's when I knew that there
was something there with country music. That was my life
right there, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, And I think my father was a certain a
funny story way was sort of destined to have to
have a relationship with Loretta Lynn because you know, Loretta
talks about her mother. When she was pregnant with her
With with Loretta, she had these pictures of some movie
(07:01):
starts up on the wall. It's a newspaper clippings, and
one of them was Loretta Young. So I'm going to
name my I'm gonna name my daughter Loretta. And so
fast forward to the early fifties. My my dad was
in on the ground floor of television and one of
(07:21):
the things that he did was he would he went
to h you know, the television did to our society
what the internet's done in the past twenty five thirty years.
It's just everything. Everything changed, and you know that, you know,
people weren't going to go to movies anywhere when they
could they could sit home and watch something on TV.
(07:44):
So Loretta Young became a client at William Morris and
my father went to her and convinced her that you should,
you should go into TV. And so he got you know,
he he put together the Loretta right a Young Show, Wow,
and it was on I mean it was it was
(08:05):
on every Sunday night. And one of the big deals was.
So she would open this door and come out with
with uh and some fancy interesting dress, and you know,
she was an iconic star. I mean she was, she
was huge, but but you know, the movie business was
changing and TV was coming on. So I always thought
(08:26):
that that was kind of an ironic.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So that's that's cool. Yeah, that's that's very ironic. Listen.
Another story about your dad, which there's a there's a
great book about your father, and the name of the book.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Is Driving Maryland The Life and Times The life and
times of legendary Hollywood agent Norman Broke.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
All your dad drove Marilyn Monroe was part of her
career also, right, Yeah, ibelievable.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, because because our family we you know, his his mother, Uh,
they were they were entertainers in Russia in eighteen hundreds
and they came here in eighteen ninety eight, which my
dad used to point out that was the same year
that William Morris opened. And so they were performers and
(09:15):
they were at vaudeville and my grandmother taught her brother,
John Johnny Hyde how to represent talent and he was
good at it, and he was at William Morris from
nineteen twenty six to nineteen the end in nineteen fifty
(09:37):
and he was really a big time Hollywood agent during
the golden age of Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
My dad had moved out here with his mother in
nineteen forty two and he wanted to work at William Morris.
So his brother called Johnny Hyde and said, wants a job.
So on July seventh, nineteen forty three, Johnny put Norman
(10:06):
into William Morris mail room and he just loved it,
you know, he was it was a great match for him,
and he you know, it was the only job he
ever had. And Johnny was found. He was in Palm
Springs in nineteen forty seven and he saw Marilyn Monroe
(10:26):
for the first time and he brought her to William
Morris and he left his wife for her.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And it got a lot of the early jobs for
her and Norman. Because Johnny had this heart disease. Norman
did a lot of the leg work and he would
drive her around and and and do a lot of
(10:55):
nuts and bolts things for it. In nineteen fifty two,
he booked her on a TV show called Lights Camera Action,
and they had three actors and each one would get
a scene to act out whoever got the best did
the best job, got a kinescope of that scene, and
(11:16):
she got it. So they were at the NBC studios
at Sunset and Vine, and so Norman took her down
to the Hollywood Brown Derby, which was at Hollywood and
Vine to have a little bite to eat. And while
they're sitting there, Fred Mertz of is love Lucy that guy? Okay,
(11:37):
William Frawley comes up to my dad and he said
to him, I'm with Joe Dee and he wants to
meet this lady.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So Marilyn says to my dad, who's Joe d He says,
it's Joe DiMaggio and he's one of the greatest baseball
players of all time. So he said, we'll come by
when we're done, we'll come by and say hello. So
Norman introduced Marilyn Monroe to Jodomagiel.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Your Dan's responsible for that relationship. Yeah, pretty cool man,
Pretty cool? Pretty pretty Yeah. Okay, now let's get back
now again. That book is on my to do list
to read this summer. But let's get back to the
connection country music. You grew up in an environment where
I mean everything comes natural to you. You're one of
the best publicers I've ever met, and thanks, you know,
(12:31):
a great conversationist. So it was kind of destined for
you also to be involved with all these stars in
country music. And it starts again, We're going to go back,
jump back a few minutes to Loretto.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
In Yeah, So getting back to country music. Conway Twitty
got booked in the Gillies Club one night, and this.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Is I think nineteen seventy four, so this is way
before Urban Cowboy, way before Nicky Gilly was a big.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Star, wait before. So Conway's playing Gilly's that night, and
it suddenly dawns on him, says, jeez, that this this
place is associated with Mickey Gilly, who's got this big
hit with a room full of roses. So Conway called
(13:21):
Jimmy Jay, who was the head of Conway. Loretta had
an agency called United Talent, and so Conway called Jimmy
Jay and he said, he said, I want you to
to sign Mickey Gilly to our, to our, I want
to represent him. So Gilly signed up with Conway and
(13:42):
Loretta and this seventy four seventy five, and he was
making thirty five hundred a night, thirty five hundred for
when he opened for them. And at some point David
Skepner said the Sherwood Crier, he said, you should hire
(14:04):
the bro cause they will get stuff for you. And
I came to the office one day and David said
to me, my twin brother says, I just signed Mickey Gilly. Yeah,
I didn't know who he was. I said, okay. So
Skeptner told me, he said, you you will not believe
(14:26):
that club. So I booked a flight down the Hobby
Airport in South Houston and somebody picked me up at
the airport and pulled me up, drove me up to
Gilly's Club.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You know it was.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It was not by design. It was not a paved
parking lot.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, I was going to ask you about that because
I went there in the late eighties, mid eighties. Actually,
and I'm not going to use the word duff. Okay, maybe,
I mean there wasn't spectacular. It wasn't like a Vegas
club at all. So I can't imagine what looked like
back in the early seventies.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Well, Sherwood felt that that sort of added to the ambiance. Okay,
So he didn't hit So the parking lot was some paved.
So the guy drops me off and and Sherwood walks
out in front of the club and I shook his hand,
and my life has never been the same since.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So that started an over thirty year relationship with Mickey
Hadley and Sherwood. Crier. Yeah, your first visit to Pasady
of Texas that I think you found out probably why
they called it Stinkadena because of the smell of oil
in the air, didn't you.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well they have a bunch Yeah, they have a bunch
of refineries there.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, paper mill and I guess oil refineries. And you know,
but I mean, I grew up and I still live
in Studio City, which is which is I'm near North Hollywood, right,
you know, when I walk my front yard and if
I look up to the to the south, up on
(16:11):
the hill, I can see this this tall building and
says it says, I'm there a NBC Universal Comcast. So
I'm I live like a couple of miles away from
Universal City and then a couple of miles on the
other ways. Uh it is the old Republic Pictures which
(16:32):
eventually became uh A CBS Radford and and that's where
you know they did leave it to Beaver, the Roseanne Show,
and and and Seinfeld and so I'm in the middle
of of you know, I'm right in the middle of
everything district. Yeah, and there was there was this the
(16:54):
whole Texas thing really appealed to me. I I just
it's just I felt I just fell in love with it,
and I fell in love with with Mickey Gilly's story.
I just I thought it was was great, you know,
it was I had a lot of things to to
mount my work on. I mean, here's he had. The
time I started working for him, he had four number
(17:16):
one records in a row. He had the nightclub, which
which was even back then, was starting to it had
a certain cachet about it. He's cousins with Jerry Lee Lewis,
He's cousins with Swagger, and he kept getting hit records and.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
He was a king in Texas at the time. He
was the king in Texas radio, and everybody knew Mickey Gilly. Yeah. Yeah,
but you were there to take him to the next level.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah. I was happened to be at the right place
at the right time, you know. And it's just again,
when you're in the middle of stuff like that, it's
hard not to. It's hard not to look good. But
you know, I went to work every day. What can
I do for Gilly? How can I get what can
I do to get him to the to the next level?
(18:09):
And I just was I loved his story, I loved
the music and and I had and it was just
fun being a part of it. I love going to
the night at Gilly's club, and I became friends with
everybody there and and eventually I just I just stay
at Sherwood's house, you know, I mean we we we
(18:31):
became very very close and and uh uh you know
it's we were moving along, you know. I just just
every day I looked for something I could do to
get the word out about him, like like one one.
It was a great collaboration between Sherwood and Gilly and
(18:52):
David and I. We you know, everybody had an idea
and it was all part of what what what sl
led to the movie?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well how did that movie come up? Because it's if
you started with him in the early seventies, the movie
he was roughly filmed about seventy eight seventy nine, is
that right, That's right. I made.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
What happened was there was a Clay Felker was a
brilliant editor with Esquire magazine. He had a knack for
doing stories that were so interesting and touched the nerves
on the national level that they ended up being made
(19:39):
into films. He had a couple three before he got
to US. So in nineteen seventy eight he goes to
Aaron Latham. Aaron was a great writer, and he said,
you know, one of the this, this is the whole
(20:00):
essence of urban cowboy right here is one of the
great aspects of the American mythology is the cowboy. Right
and here we are in nineteen seventy eight. I want
you to go to Texas and find out how this
(20:20):
this mythology manifests itself today. And somehow, I don't know
how this happened. But Aaron ends up at Gillies Club
and Sherwood calls me. He says, there's a Yankee here
and he's going to do a story for Esquire. But
he doesn't want it, doesn't really want to, he doesn't
(20:44):
really need to talk to Gilly. And I say, hey,
just like roll out the red carpet. That's that's great,
you know. And so what Aaron deduced was, you have
all these these people in Houston, they're working in the refineries,
the factories. Uh. There there's working in offices. Uh. He
(21:07):
had a great cross section of people. And and and
then a few times a month they put on their
cowboy boots and the jeans and a belt buckle on hat,
cowboy hat, and they head out to Gillies to uh
to act out, uh, to be.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Like a cowboy. Especially.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, and you know when with Gillies, uh Sherwood. Sherwood
had Uh the place was called was remember what it
was called? It was it didn't have walls, and it
got he got rained out one night, so he went
(21:49):
down the street to see Gilly and he said to him, Uh,
once you, once you come to work with me. And
Gilly came over there. He said, well, you need to
tear this thing down. He said, well, what do you
want me to do? So Gilly gave Sure with it
like a bunch of ideas. And next thing, he knows everything.
He asked Sure what to do? What he's doing, you know?
(22:11):
And and so they get in the business together seventy one.
And Gilly was a great entertainer.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And pretty sure he was a smart businessman. I'm very smart.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, so uh, he's Gilly said, we need, you know,
should have pool tables in here where people can play pool.
And so the pool tables ended up, you know, it
was with all these all these pinball machines all around
the club. At some point, Surewood gets the idea to
(22:46):
put in a mechanical bull. That was Sherwood's idea, really,
and and so that that was that one idea led
to everything.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, that let be right. He did
lead every and of course the movie and suddenly there
were mechanical bulls in every nightclub in America. Yeah, which
I think sure we probably had a part of that too,
didn't Eve. He was smart. He bought him too. That
business he made him. See there what I'm talking about,
shrewd businessman?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah he was, he was. He was making them. And
and so so Aaron goes in there and he says,
what these these these guys, they come out here and
they have a few beers, and they chase women, and
they go on to go out and dance and they
(23:37):
and they ride this mechanical bull. So he he got this,
you know, he got the story and wrote it up
and September the twelfth, nineteen seventy eight. The cover Esquire
said the Ballad of the Urban Cowboy, and it was unbelievable.
(24:02):
And Irving, A's off the big manager record executive. He
got in on it and I think he I think
he had he bought the rights to it or something.
And that day he called me and he said, can
you come over here? I went, yeah, you know, I mean,
it's like I was so excited to have an audience
(24:23):
with the great Irving. Irving his career was built on
his He was the manager of the Eagles in the
from the early.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Seventies and Joe Walsh.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so all those guys he was and he's still
he's more powerful today than ever. So uh, Irving came
down looked at everything. And one day David and I
and our attorney was walking down wilsterm Boulevard in Beverly
Hills and we went into this room with Irving and
(24:59):
Paramount and we it was we hashed out the deal.
And I said to Irving and said, you know, we've
got this guy in the house band and I'd just
like to have at least one cut on the soundtrack
for him, as his name is Johnny Lee. So you
(25:20):
know what that turned out to be Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, wait a minute, isn't that amazing? And listen, we've
gotten part two coming up next week. You're gonna want
to hear some more behind the scenes action of the
movie Urban Cowboy. Join me for part two and join
me on Instagram. By the way, also and x I'm
at Bob Pickett Radio on Instagram at xit and you
can find me. Got a YouTube channel too, Bob Pickett Radio.
(25:43):
See you next week for another episode of Bob Pickett Radio.
Part two of our conversation with Sandy Brokeoff about the
movie Urban Cowboy.
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