July 12, 2025 • 39 mins
What really happened to Maura Murray after she vanished into the snowy woods of rural New Hampshire? In Part 2 of Vanished in the White Mountains, we dive deep into the leading theories: Was Maura running away? Was she met with foul play? Or did something even stranger happen on Route 112?
We unpack the search efforts, the cryptic clues that emerged in the aftermath, and the online obsession that turned this into one of the internet’s first viral true crime mysteries.
Join us as we examine the evidence—and the silence—that still surrounds Maura’s disappearance, over 20 years later.
Click here to see all listening options and links
Find us on socials:
Instagram: @chillworthypodcast
Bluesky: @chillworthypodcast
Skylight: @chillworthypodcast
Youtube: @chillworthypodcast
Tiktok: @chillwotthypodcast
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DISCLAIMER The content presented on Chillworthy, including all episodes, transcripts, social media posts, and associated materials, is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The podcast does not offer legal, medical, psychological, or professional advice of any kind. While the hosts—Brent and Talia—make a good faith effort to ensure that the information shared is based on publicly available sources and is as accurate as possible at the time of recording, Chillworthy does not guarantee the completeness, timeliness, or reliability of any statements made. Listeners should be aware that cases may involve ongoing legal proceedings or developments that evolve over time. The hosts are not licensed attorneys, journalists, law enforcement professionals, or forensic experts. Opinions expressed in the podcast reflect the personal views of the hosts and do not represent factual determinations or official findings. All individuals named or discussed are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Any resemblance to real individuals or entities, outside of those explicitly named, is purely coincidental. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by any legal authority, news outlet, or investigative body. By listening to Chillworthy, you acknowledge and accept these terms and agree not to hold the hosts or producers liable for any inaccuracies, misstatements, or interpretations derived from the content.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chillworthy--6229613/support.
We unpack the search efforts, the cryptic clues that emerged in the aftermath, and the online obsession that turned this into one of the internet’s first viral true crime mysteries.
Join us as we examine the evidence—and the silence—that still surrounds Maura’s disappearance, over 20 years later.
Click here to see all listening options and links
Find us on socials:
Instagram: @chillworthypodcast
Bluesky: @chillworthypodcast
Skylight: @chillworthypodcast
Youtube: @chillworthypodcast
Tiktok: @chillwotthypodcast
Click here to leave a donation to support the podcast
DISCLAIMER The content presented on Chillworthy, including all episodes, transcripts, social media posts, and associated materials, is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The podcast does not offer legal, medical, psychological, or professional advice of any kind. While the hosts—Brent and Talia—make a good faith effort to ensure that the information shared is based on publicly available sources and is as accurate as possible at the time of recording, Chillworthy does not guarantee the completeness, timeliness, or reliability of any statements made. Listeners should be aware that cases may involve ongoing legal proceedings or developments that evolve over time. The hosts are not licensed attorneys, journalists, law enforcement professionals, or forensic experts. Opinions expressed in the podcast reflect the personal views of the hosts and do not represent factual determinations or official findings. All individuals named or discussed are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Any resemblance to real individuals or entities, outside of those explicitly named, is purely coincidental. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by any legal authority, news outlet, or investigative body. By listening to Chillworthy, you acknowledge and accept these terms and agree not to hold the hosts or producers liable for any inaccuracies, misstatements, or interpretations derived from the content.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chillworthy--6229613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Chillworthy.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A podcast we're two best friends discuss mysteries, murders, and
anything in between for your enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So if you're ready to hear some chilling and unsettling cases,
you're in the right place, happy listening. Hello, Hello, everybody,
Welcome back to a two part episode of Chillworthy with
Brenton Talia. Hi, everybody, So we are back to back
(00:39):
to back on these episodes, right, Crazily enough, We've just
got a long episode again today. There's a lot going
on with the Marrow Murray case.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very nice, I mean, the case is nice, very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, So obviously for you guys, it's been a week.
So I'm going to do a very very quick recap.
And basically, Mara Murray was a college student. On many accounts,
she was very responsible and dependable. But during a time
she started to act a little more erratic. She was
(01:15):
kind of having some issues. She got into a car
accident two days before she disappeared. Then two days later
she gets into another car accident on a very desolated
area of road. There are two neighbors who see this
car crash happen. Well, I'm sorry, one of the neighbors
sees the car crash happen. She calls nine to one
(01:37):
one and says she sees the driver in the car.
There were some discrepancies over what she saw in terms
of who was in the car, but she says she
did see somebody in the car. The other neighbor was
a bus driver who was driving past. He sees Mara
next to her car outside in the cold, shivering. It
had just snowed. He asks her she needs help. He said,
(01:59):
I'll call nine one one. She is like feverishly telling
him not to call nine one one. We later find
out that there's open alcohol in the car, which is
probably why she didn't want him to call nine one one.
He asks her if she wants to accompany him back
to his house, which is a few hundred yards down
the road. While they wait for the Triple A, who
(02:19):
she had already said that she called. She declined Talia
was in favor of that. He goes back. Even though
she told him not to call the police. He was worried,
so he did end up calling the police. By the
time the police get there. In a fifteen minute span
of time, Mara Murray goes from being stranded with her
(02:40):
car on the side of the road too, never being
seen again. Did I miss anything you think?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I don't think you did. Know she took the alcohol
with her, which I found to be strange.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So they say, yeah, and of course there's just the
typical police didn't do enough.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Arguments did start for about a year to look into it.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, so there were you know, there were the normal
things that that always seemed to happen in terms of
it wasn't it was taken like, oh she wanted to
disappear and you know she was suicidal, or like foul
play wasn't involved, type of energy happening.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Nonsense.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So that's where we left off. So now to jump
back into this, you know, to be fair to the police,
they did follow up on some leads as they emerged. Okay,
so Mara's friends and family were interviewed, so good. Her
(03:40):
boyfriend Bill, he flew in to assist in the search.
When Bill arrives on February eleventh. Now for those tuning
in again, Marara disappeared February ninth.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You know, speaking of him, though, I will say I
think what you say. I think with just the distance overall,
like I'm not suspecting him at all in this. But
I just feel like, you know, a partner should come
when the other one goes missing, for sure, but we
weren't like good with them. I'm sure he feels ridiculous
(04:12):
guilt over this, you know, if that was sort of
like the precipice for.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
What Oh okay, yeah, really.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Got her not in a good place and making great decisions.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So when Bill arrives on February eleventh, he was interviewed
by police and then he joined in on the hunt.
So something of note here. Bill had turned off his
cell phone during his flight. Now listen to this. This
is shin interesting. Bill turned his cell phone off during
the flight, and when he landed and he checked the messages,
(04:46):
he found a voicemail that was deeply disturbing. That sound
could mean a lot of things from Tellia to me. Way, yeah,
we don't know what it means, just so it was
a very disturbing message. The message it was time stamped
(05:09):
sometime Tuesday, which was the ninth?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Was it the day that she got into the second accident?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
The ninth was a Monday, so the day after she
went with right, Yes, so a Tuesday, So it was
time stamped sometime Tuesday, and this voicemail was of a
woman sobbing quietly and whimpering on the other end of
the line.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It had her but didn't come through under her number.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So he was convinced that it was the sound of
Mara crying. So authorities did manage to trace the call
and it had come from a calling card issued by
the American Red Cross. Like, I don't know if that means,
like what a disaster.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Disaster relief and why would Mama ever have something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So to this day, no one knows for sure if
this voicemail was Mara on the line or not, and
if so, why was she crying like that? What was
she trying to say, if anything before the message cut off?
So this is just another one of those eerie things
that is just what's what makes the case so fascinating
(06:22):
to so many people. Yeah, law enforcement couldn't trace who
used the calling card, and no further calls like that
were ever reported. So by the end of that first week,
as search efforts expanded, law enforcements tone shifted. After days
of combing the area with no success, New Hampshire State
Police Lieutenant John Scarnza he acknowledged this mystery publicly, and
(06:50):
he noted, quote, we certainly don't know why Mara left school.
We don't know why Mara left school. What clearly did
not make sense was that she didn't confide in anyone
end quote. The lack of answers would eventually lead the
case to be transferred to the state Cold Cases Unit
in two thousand and nine, So four years later.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So in those years since, the officials have maintained that
the investigation remains active, even if periods of intense search
have come and gone. As Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff
Strelzen he said in twenty ten, we don't know if
(07:33):
mar is a victim, but the state is treating it
as a potential homicide. It's being handled as a criminal investigation.
All right, but this is six years later.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Absolutely good luck to everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Uh no, I mean good.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I guess, yeah, but a little late, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes, And speaking of that, this was a cold comfort
to the Murray family, who from day one felt that
all of this basically precious time had been lost completely.
You know. The father became very vocal about all of
these missteps that he saw, and at one point he
even petitioned the governor, and he started filing lawsuits in
(08:15):
an effort to obtain police records and push the case forward.
But in those initial days of February two thousand and four,
no one could have predicted that Mara's fate would still
remain unsolved for literal decades. And well, as you see
right here, the true crime community would still be talking
about it to this very day. So here are some
(08:36):
of the theories and the speculations about what was going
on there. So the first one, abduction or foul play,
Now see, that's the first one that should have been
on the radar.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And I don't think like I just think it's it
had to be somebody who passed in the car. And
you know, she, I'm sure came across as someone vulnerable,
Butcher commented, she really wasn't dressed that great for the weather,
so she's like compromised in that way. I'm sure she
was emotional. I it had to be someone in the car,
(09:11):
especially the dogs, the fact that the scent was just gone.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So obviously, like I said, the first theory is that
some predator, either an opportunistic stranger or somebody local, perhaps
one of the motorists who passed by after the crash.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
They offered Mara a ride and then they harmed her.
Like you just said, The fact that her scent ended
abruptly on the road supports the idea that she entered
a vehicle. Over the years, there have been a few
questionable individuals on the radar. So in late two thousand
and four, for example, one man turned over a rusty,
(09:53):
blood stained knife, alleging that his own brother, who lived
less than a mile from the crash site and had
a criminal history, might have used it to kill Mara.
And this reminds me of who what was the case
where everybody, like everybody and their brother was turning in
this man.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I was gonna say it was with the brother and
the brother in law, but I don't think it actually
was the one who like what was that, Tamala. I
don't think it was.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That case though, because it wasn't dB Cooper. Well, I
mean his family, his family members were doing that. But
I could have sworn this with somebody else, I.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Agree with you, and I can't think of which one
it was.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
But there was something like somebody who didn't somebody take
the wife, saw the husband drop something into a river.
I thought it was yours, doubo dv it was doobu coopoo,
it was.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
dB Cooper well allegedly.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Well, yes, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think we should just leave him alone. He was
a gentleman, a gentleman and a scholar for the eight
hundredth time.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
All right, well, but that was the case. Anyway, this
guy is saying that his brother might have done it. Then,
in two thousand and six, there were cadaver dogs searching
an a frame house in the neighborhood where Mara disappeared
that was once occupied by that very brother. So when
(11:32):
they were in there, they reportedly went quote unquote bonkers.
I love that word, signaling the possible presence of human
remains in a closet. So this led investigators to cut
out some of the carpet for testing. Why didn't you
just open the door? I guess they don't know did However,
(11:57):
no definitive evidence linking these fines tomorrow has ever been
made public. The carpet samples did not yield any answers.
Now they might have checked it three years later, but
still didn't yield any answers, and the knife story was
never corroborated. So some family members of that man later
(12:18):
claimed that he made it up for attention or reward money.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Classless, yes, and cruel, Yeah, you know it.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Still, the foul play theory remains credible to many, including
Mara's father, who long to believe that what he calls
a bad guy encountered Mara on that road during that night,
and in his view, someone local might have quickly picked
her up in that brief window and harmed her. Disposing
(12:50):
of evidence in the remote mountains where this road was.
This theory is chilling, but of course it would explain
the total lack of trace left behind. And, as one
retired police detective said in an interview about this, quote unquote,
it appears that something beyond a mere missing person case
(13:10):
is happening here. Something ominous could have happened.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, yes, sir, absolutely, ding ding ding, We're the e
f and bells.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He ain't just whistling Dixie, of course, the next one,
the big old favorite, the old standby. She ran away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Wants to start again. Are we to interfere?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
We aren't. We shan't. On the flip side, many speculate
that Marra just orchestrated this on her own, that she
intended to leave her old life behind and start fresh elsewhere.
Proponents of this theory point to her actions that day
as evidence that she was planning. She lied about a
family desk, she withdrew cash, she packed her car with
(13:57):
her belongings, and she was researching places to stay in
both New Hampshire and Vermont. So could Mara have just
been escaping something academic pressure, legal trouble, relationship issues and
she just wanted to get away from it all? As
even her family initially thought this when they saw the
(14:17):
way she had packed her car. But that's a pretty
big jump from I need a break too, I'm starting
a new life exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And not to return or communicate with anyone. To not
have told a single soul about any of this, it
just scares me for her.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There are more extreme versions of this theory, Like one
of them talks about how Marra might have secretly met
up with another person, whether that was a friend or
a lover who was traveling separately and together they disappeared
and maybe went to Canada.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Where did that?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like, that's so specific Canada?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, that that's what she was up to. So arbitrary,
I mean, I guess she just went farther north, I suppose,
but like where the hell, Like there weren't even any
travel plans or like a passport was out or anything
to make anyone think she was going and leaving the country.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Maybe she did it great, maybe she did it very secretively.
Well yeah, I don't know. I guess they just thought
Canada would be the place.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I guess, like New England makes sense, like distance wise,
but it just is odd to me you would go
straight to that, And I guess they didn't go straight
to it, but like, you know, yes, it's the northernmost country.
Does that make sense to say, yeah, sure, from there?
But I just think it's like a bit of a leap,
I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I see, Well, oh right, right, who are any of us?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So okay, there was this in terms of the Canada thing.
There was this investigative journalist by the name of James Renner,
and he was talking that he was like pursuing these
leads a Mara was alive in Canada under a new identity,
although nothing concrete ever emerged from this, and skeptics of
the runaway theory point out that all of Mar's personal accounts,
(16:10):
like her bank cards, her phone, everything went dark right
after she disappeared on February ninth, not to mention that
she left behind all of her items that can't be traced,
like books, stuffed animals, these things that she that were
left in the car. So like people are just saying,
why would you assume that she is just be bopping
(16:32):
around Canada?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Right, But those things specifically make me ysterrible as this
is make me think, like, you know, she was pretty
soon no longer with us after that all happened.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I assume so as well. So the next one is
accidental death. Of course, we always have the oldie but
a goodie hypothermia of the hypothermia, So this one is
that you know, she crashed. She sets out on foot
because she she so she does it purposely though she
still wants to run away. She sets out on foot
(17:09):
because she doesn't want to get caught for the dui,
and then she just succumbs to the elements because that
night was recorded to be around thirty two degrees fahrenheit,
so I mean it obviously, and she wasn't dressed to
be out there in the cold and all of that stuff,
so like not a good situation, and then being drunk
on top of it, you're probably not even feeling the
(17:30):
elements as much as.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I remember in college, Like you know, I went to
school in a cold climate, and yeah, we would be
waiting for the shuttle, like the drunk bus to take
us to like a city that all the bars and
like clubs and stuff were and it was like the
schools like initiative to get you there safely. Like so
(17:52):
nobody would drive the outfits that we would be in
in winter in this area, and like we of course
pregamed before we would go out, and like we would
be so scantily clad and waiting outside for this thing
to arrive. And I mean we did more than probably pregame, like,
(18:13):
but we didn't feel a damn thing. I mean, we
were like immune to the elements. It was insane. And
which back to her though in the car and what
she left in the car. And I may have said
this earlier, but I still it makes me wonder if
her intention was to return to the car at some
point and that is why she left certain things that
(18:33):
were important to her.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, I mean we'll never know,
So I guess there is so people who think that
maybe this death was accidental, right they I guess they
often talk about this one case and it's called the
case of the Old Swamps quote unquote yikes. Or I
guess another word for it is the old squaw walk.
(18:58):
I thought that said squawk walk, but it's not squawwalking, right,
which I'm assuming has to be Native American. I was thinking,
so Mara's father referenced this, and it's the notion of
somebody wandering into the snowy woods basically to die purposely,
like like sometimes they would like I don't know, it
(19:18):
says like, I'm assuming that's what they're trying to say
that this squaw walk is almost kind of like the
suicide forest, like culturally, right, I'm thinking, like the elements
are bad, maybe not even maybe it's just you're going
into the woods and you're just thinking you're gonna perish
in there. I'm not sure, So, you know, I guess
(19:39):
early on some law enforcement was thinking that Mara was
just distraught from crashing two cars in two days. She
might have been suicidal at that point, and then she
just walked into the dark forest to enter her life.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well can I interrupt you?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, Well, there were never any signs though in the
forest that she was in there to begin with.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So oh so probably not like because if you're.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
If she's gonna if she's planning on ending her life,
is she going to care that somebody follows her footprints?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
By that point, you'd imagine not, right she I wouldn't
imagine like if she wanted her body to be found.
But there's so much speculation in that. I was going
to say in terms of like that she potentially wanted
to commit suicide. Take out that she just got into
two car accidents in two days. I mean that obviously
(20:27):
is not good. But like I still think something was
going on with the boyfriend. I mean, you said there
were like issues with them, but like I think she
found something out and that's what led her to be
so distraught, not thinking clearly, like being distracted getting into
these accidents, drinking heavily driving and drinking like that was
it didn't sound like that was a thing that was
(20:47):
common yeah for her, like a habit. So I'm just
I'm thinking, if like she was feeling suicidal, I don't
think it was just because she got to or no,
she didn't get to DUI. But just like the accidents
involving drinking. I feel like it was maybe even other
things that were going on, Like I just there is
like a hopeless vibe in all of this, or like
(21:10):
frantic or like impulsive, like.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
A few Well, there's definitely facts to believe she was
deeply bothered by something, I mean with the drinking and stuff.
But one of the other theories is about like a
connection to possible other cases. So it says that, you know,
because of the bizarre nature of Mars disappearance, people have
wondered if it might be linked to other unsolved cases,
or if like a predator was stalking the region at
(21:32):
that point. The most often referenced comparison case to this
is the case of Brianna Maitland, who is a seventeen
year old who vanishes after her car was found abandoned
against a barn in Montgomery, Vermont, just five weeks after
Mara disappears and sixty six miles away. So both young
(21:56):
women went missing in two thousand and four under very
similar circlecumstances. Both people both women left the car behind,
it was a rural setting, it was nighttime, no traces
of the driver, so like people were wondering if there
was just something else. Serial killery right out there happening.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I mean the timing of that is kind of insane,
and the proximity.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Excuse me, I just have to say, quickly, what would
you like to say?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I would like to tell you that you recently said
a dream of yours was.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That you don't have to tell me. I know what
I said.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I'll tell the chillers. Brent informed me a dream of
his was that we are actively doing a podcast case,
episode whatever during a thunderstorm, and it's freaking.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Happenying man, Yeah, it is fally yeah, yes, right, speaking
of this serial killer. Yes, last night I watched a
not the best movie I've ever seen, but it's fair.
It was from nineteen.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Ninety nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Or maybe nineteen ninety five something with it was about
a serial killer.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You never saw this movie before now.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It was called Copycat with Sigourney Weaver. Segurny likes her.
I mean, I think she's a delight.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I don't mind her, I don't love her. It's fine,
she's fine. She's a three. Right, I'm kidding. That's terrible
funny about books, book ratings, all right, And.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And it's about her she's a gorphobic god because a
serial killer tried to kill her once because she is
like a psychologist who studies them. And then the other
person is and I don't know her name, but she
played she voiced elastic girl in The Incredible. Yes, I
(23:48):
instantly knew her voice. Wow, she's like, leave the saving
up the world to the men. I don't think so, ladies,
I don't think so. I'm not doing it good. But
you know what I do.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I know, I freaking love that movie. I never saw
the second one. I assume it was so so Okay,
that makes me feel better. I didn't watch it. The
Incredibles is one of like my up there favorite Pixar movies.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, okay, keep going. I know I have to tell
you something.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
But I mean, I'm just saying, so I watched it.
It had definitely I mean it was. It was hardcore nineties,
but in a great way.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I was gonna say, that can be very nice.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It was wonderful fresh, But I'm just saying, like it
wasn't it was no silence of the lamps, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of course not course, So speaking of movies, and like horror,
and you know, I feel like appropriate for our podcast.
Did you watch Sinners yet?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
No? I didn't. I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Ashley was very I feel like you would be into it,
but it's like super rich with history, which is not
totally your thing. This movie was freaking fantastic, Like it
was amazing. So it was an all black cast and
it you know, dealt with it. So it starts in
nineteen like I'm not sure, but nineteen thirties, so Ku
(25:06):
Klux Klan is a theme in the story. Segregation is
discrimination against black people is definitely their slavery, and vampires, so.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's i empiric.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I will say, like you know it, it's like supernatural,
but the history. Oh and also very like big into music,
specifically blues music, which was like the soundtrack was fantastic
in this movie. The storyline about the music was fantastic.
(25:43):
The cast was phenomenal and so many likable characters. So like,
you know, Ashley doesn't like horror movies and she was like, oh,
I think you're boring, but she really really wanted to
watch this. And she's like, you like horror and I
was like, yeah, but I'm like particular about it. I don't,
like I can't handle everything.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
We'll be watching Creeper.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Soon, right, absolutely, this coming weekend, absolutely right, so daylight only.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So she's like, you know, I thought you'd love this,
like you like horror. I don't, but I really want
to watch this, like all right, fair. So I loved
that she was into a horror movie wanted to see it.
So okay, so we get it. We're watching it. And
I said to her multiple times, like this isn't very
horror esque, like it took a while for there to
be the first like spooky thing that happened, and everything
(26:34):
that happened was manageable. I will say it did get
very gory at times, not consistently, but it was. It
was so well done, like I can't say enough. And
it reminded me of like how you know, like how
with certain books that I love. I'll say, like, oh,
I couldn't stop thinking about it. I thought about it
for days after. You can tell it's a sign of
a good one. Yeah, the movie, Like we've both been
(26:55):
coming like down in the morning and like waking up
and being like I was thinking about the movie again,
and we're both doing it it shows awesome, right, It's
the sign of a good freaking movie.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, I'm happy you're happy with Thank.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You, all right, sorry to interrupting getting the weeds as usual.
I wanted everybody to know, so go watch it, especially
if you're into vampires and just I don't know, you
gotta see it, all.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, you heard it here first everyone. So basically, it's
like at the end of the day, just keep in
mind that like all these different theories, they're not even
mutually exclusive, because Mar's fate could have involved different elements
of all these things, like she might have intended to
start fresh quote unquote of course and then somebody grabbed
(27:43):
her anyway, or she might have been running to hide
and then hitched a ride with the wrong person. So
I mean, I don't know. I'm just saying, there's so
many different angles and so many different combinations. So like
it means nobody's ever going to know what this means.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No, exactly hitching the ride with the wrong person. I
keep thinking to like what I said earlier about I
wonder if like she intended to come back then wasn't
able to whether, like you brought up earlier, maybe it
was just as simple as hypothermia. But the fact that
the trace of her was gone and the dogs couldn't
find her, I feel like, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's why the dogs never even went into the woods, right.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like somebody got her. And then that's of course why
then she didn't return to go get her stuff, because
I just feel like she was going to go back
for everything, and you know, if somebody freaking I just
the whole thing is extremely sad.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
So in terms of the aftermath, in the weeks and
the months that followed her disappearance, her family and friends were,
I mean, it was miserable. Obviously, of course, they refused
to let the story fade. So Mar's father, Fred, he
became the driving force behind the search for his daughter.
He was on the ground in New Hampshire within two days.
(28:58):
He organized the search parties, He plassed at flyers around
the area. Uh. Fred returned, right, Fred returned to Woodsville,
which reminds me of Woodsboro.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Absolutely, God, now remind me. I'm so sorry. We're we're
getting in a lot of movies Weeds. There is not
another one coming out. And for those of you, oh
hell yeah, man, we're talking about Scream. For those of
you who are not familiar with.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
It, because I think they as they should have brought
Nev Campbell back because that that last one was bullshit.
I don't give a damn about the others, and I
said it, I don't dare to give a damn. Frankly, anyway,
all I want is Sydney or stop.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
We should watch that tonight. God, that's a good freaking movie.
That's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Man finished, Okay, yes, yes, So he returns to Woodsville
nearly every weekend for literal years, going through the forest,
knocking on doors, chasing any tip that comes his way.
So he was obviously very dedicated. On anniversaries of her disappearance,
he would stand vigil at the crash site, just handing
(30:10):
out missing Persons posters. In November of two thousand and four,
so nine months after Mara disappeared, Fred appeared on the
Montel Williams show, Oh My God.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And you know, how does something like this not consume
you as a loved one, as a family member. I
think it could just easily take over your life, and
just yeah, it breaks my heart for these poor people,
these poor families and loved ones of the victims.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
He personally petitioned the new Hampshire governor for more help,
but he felt like it was stoned wall by what
he perceived as a lack of transparency from authorities.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Like with the investigation.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, so Fred took the extraordinary step of filing a
lawsuit in two thousand and five against law enforcement agencies
attempting to obtain case files. So like, basically he could
see what they saw. I guess. And Fred's persistence, however,
sent a clear message that the Murray family, that the
Murray family was not going to give up on finding Mara.
(31:19):
Mar's disappearance gradually grew from a local news item into
a national true crime saga. And like I said, I've
seen this everywhere. I've just never I never looked into
it before. So in two thousand and six, two years
after Mar disappeared, her story was featured on ABC's.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Twenty Barbara Walters.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I'm Barbara Welsers and this is twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
That reminds me of Adam Barreley. Oh he is a man.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
God. I was gonna say, but we don't have the
time for them.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Tell everybody about them, so please. I think his last
name is b A R A L E. T.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I don't freakingness.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I'd imagine. I'm not sure what country he's is it Australia.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I was getting, I was getting a europe vibe, but
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, he's a wonderful man and he's like a crystal guru,
and he has YouTube videos and he has, like, you know,
a particular way of speaking that reminded me of that.
And this podcast that I listened to about crystals, which
I don't have the name of it with me, but
I'll find it. And then you met, will you I will?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I shall?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I sure do, I will do it before we end today.
But I it sort of shifted and it used to
be a girl who would talk about like a crystal.
She would do like a question from a listener. She
would give the crystal history. It was like a lovely
I mean it still is lovely, but it used to
just be her. She has a crystal school. Then it shifted,
(32:47):
like I hadn't listened for a while. I went back
to it, and now it's like she calls it the
Crystal Confab, and it's like her and I want to
say three men, possibly four, and Adam is one of them.
I think I told you this, Yeah, absolutely I did. Yeah,
so highly recommend it.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, if Adam's listening, we say high.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh my gosh. If he responded commented anything, can you imagine.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I'm still waiting to hear from David Archiletta, so I
don't know if that's gonna happen anyway. Right, So, yes,
it was done on twenty twenty, which was obviously, you know,
good for getting it out there again. But I mean
by that, by that point, you know, we're two years gone,
(33:35):
so tons of blogs and forums, you know, we were
sprung from this. There was an Oxygen documentary that you know,
happened later on.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Does that channel still exist?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I don't know. I wonder if it does so, but
like Oxygen, they made a point to say that this
was the first true crime mystery of the social media
age because Facebook had just launched, oh shit, like days
I think days after she went missing, So it was
super you know early.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
That's wild. Do you real quick remember, except I don't
mean quick at all. Do you remember when Facebook came out?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I mean very lightly. I remember it would be like
brent is and then you would fill that in it
instead of like remember that, Yeah, it was like because
then you'd say like doing the dishes.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Stupid, it would suggest that or like no, like.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That's like when you were going to make a post,
it always started off with like Talia is and then
you would fill out the rest.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I don't remember that.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And then one day they just got rid of it
so you could say, whatever the hell you want.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I remember when, like, you know, it obviously went to
colleges first, and we the college I went to was
not on the top of the list of Facebook. And
then when it was finally released or whatever you say,
say it was such like a huge deal and like
of course we all you know got it and did
our little profiles or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
But like I joined the Edward forty hands, Oh there
were right.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think that's when pictures kind of took off, like
you would upload these photos and like it was a
wild time. And then I don't have Facebook anymore. But
when I, you know, did post that time, it's like
insane how Facebook changed. I think it's said and you
could only get it in the beginning if you were
in college.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, that what a weird but whatever, oh that right.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Who the hell those were we to say?
Speaker 1 (35:35):
We're not so By twenty seventeen, interest in Marris's story
was like surging again, you know, because these stories get
like they kind of go away, then they like, you know,
come back whatever. Yeah, depending on like of documentaries, you know,
I'm sure The Tail and All Killer is probably back
to being pretty popular totally. So the FBI in twenty
(35:58):
seventeen conducted a fresh sweep of the area just to
kind of like, you know, I guess, just see what's
going on there, And they even excavated a basement of
a home near the crash site in early twenty seventeen
after they did some ground penetrating radar JAUSA, which suggested
(36:20):
that there was something weird under the concrete, like buried. Yeah,
but unfortunately nothing was actually found. So dead end, yeah.
Dead Oh and her father was like, he was quoted saying,
this one hurts because I thought we finally had it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That brops my heart from that Fred never gave up.
And what parent does I mean we hear that all
the time in these cases.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah. So yeah, that's basically that's what I have for
part two of mar Murray.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, you did a very good job.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Very very sad case.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
As they all are exactly as are they all exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Well, Friday the thirteenth wasn't too sad.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
That's correct. Neither was what was that thing called the murder.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Chair the Devil's chair? Right?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And what else? There were other things that weren't terrible.
You did that vampire one?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
You please?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I'm so sorry. I'm trying to keep the microphone by
my mouth and I was doing pretty well.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But that's well, I don't know. The vampire one where
the entire family dies, I don't know. That wasn't all
kicks and giggles.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But all right, it's pretty terrible. That example, That one
wasn't too bad.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I mean they did they did? You know what was it?
Unbury most of the family? What resumed bell?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The bell? No eg zoom egg zoom?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yes, they did exzoom the family they could like cut
off their head or something. But hey, that wasn't too sad.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Not that one I was.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Trying to Crampis that one's not sad?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
And murder road I think I was getting crossed. Yeah,
Olmder wrote us a book by some own Saint James
that I talked about, right, all right, I gotta go, Yeah,
I'm getting crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Oh, we don't want that now, all right, so everybody,
thank you for everyone. Okay, thanks everyone, As Talia says,
thank you for tuning in. It's been a pleasure. And
until we see you again, stay safe and stay chill.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Come bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Bye everyone, you've just listened to Chilworthy. Thank you for
joining us on this latest episode. While we strive to
keep our discussions engaging and lighthearted, we also wanted to
take a moment to acknowledge the real lives and events
that are at the heart of these stories.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
We try to approach each topic with a sense of
curiosity and respect fully, aware of the impact these events
have had on the individual and their loved ones. Our
goal is to honor their memories by keeping their stories
alive and shedding light on the mysteries that surround them.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate
and leave a review, and don't forget to join us
on the next episode of Chilworthy.
You're listening to Chillworthy.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A podcast we're two best friends discuss mysteries, murders, and
anything in between for your enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So if you're ready to hear some chilling and unsettling cases,
you're in the right place, happy listening. Hello, Hello, everybody,
Welcome back to a two part episode of Chillworthy with
Brenton Talia. Hi, everybody, So we are back to back
(00:39):
to back on these episodes, right, Crazily enough, We've just
got a long episode again today. There's a lot going
on with the Marrow Murray case.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very nice, I mean, the case is nice, very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, So obviously for you guys, it's been a week.
So I'm going to do a very very quick recap.
And basically, Mara Murray was a college student. On many accounts,
she was very responsible and dependable. But during a time
she started to act a little more erratic. She was
(01:15):
kind of having some issues. She got into a car
accident two days before she disappeared. Then two days later
she gets into another car accident on a very desolated
area of road. There are two neighbors who see this
car crash happen. Well, I'm sorry, one of the neighbors
sees the car crash happen. She calls nine to one
(01:37):
one and says she sees the driver in the car.
There were some discrepancies over what she saw in terms
of who was in the car, but she says she
did see somebody in the car. The other neighbor was
a bus driver who was driving past. He sees Mara
next to her car outside in the cold, shivering. It
had just snowed. He asks her she needs help. He said,
(01:59):
I'll call nine one one. She is like feverishly telling
him not to call nine one one. We later find
out that there's open alcohol in the car, which is
probably why she didn't want him to call nine one one.
He asks her if she wants to accompany him back
to his house, which is a few hundred yards down
the road. While they wait for the Triple A, who
(02:19):
she had already said that she called. She declined Talia
was in favor of that. He goes back. Even though
she told him not to call the police. He was worried,
so he did end up calling the police. By the
time the police get there. In a fifteen minute span
of time, Mara Murray goes from being stranded with her
(02:40):
car on the side of the road too, never being
seen again. Did I miss anything you think?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I don't think you did. Know she took the alcohol
with her, which I found to be strange.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So they say, yeah, and of course there's just the
typical police didn't do enough.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Arguments did start for about a year to look into it.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, so there were you know, there were the normal
things that that always seemed to happen in terms of
it wasn't it was taken like, oh she wanted to
disappear and you know she was suicidal, or like foul
play wasn't involved, type of energy happening.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Nonsense.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So that's where we left off. So now to jump
back into this, you know, to be fair to the police,
they did follow up on some leads as they emerged. Okay,
so Mara's friends and family were interviewed, so good. Her
(03:40):
boyfriend Bill, he flew in to assist in the search.
When Bill arrives on February eleventh. Now for those tuning
in again, Marara disappeared February ninth.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You know, speaking of him, though, I will say I
think what you say. I think with just the distance overall,
like I'm not suspecting him at all in this. But
I just feel like, you know, a partner should come
when the other one goes missing, for sure, but we
weren't like good with them. I'm sure he feels ridiculous
(04:12):
guilt over this, you know, if that was sort of
like the precipice for.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
What Oh okay, yeah, really.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Got her not in a good place and making great decisions.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So when Bill arrives on February eleventh, he was interviewed
by police and then he joined in on the hunt.
So something of note here. Bill had turned off his
cell phone during his flight. Now listen to this. This
is shin interesting. Bill turned his cell phone off during
the flight, and when he landed and he checked the messages,
(04:46):
he found a voicemail that was deeply disturbing. That sound
could mean a lot of things from Tellia to me. Way, yeah,
we don't know what it means, just so it was
a very disturbing message. The message it was time stamped
(05:09):
sometime Tuesday, which was the ninth?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Was it the day that she got into the second accident?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
The ninth was a Monday, so the day after she
went with right, Yes, so a Tuesday, So it was
time stamped sometime Tuesday, and this voicemail was of a
woman sobbing quietly and whimpering on the other end of
the line.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It had her but didn't come through under her number.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So he was convinced that it was the sound of
Mara crying. So authorities did manage to trace the call
and it had come from a calling card issued by
the American Red Cross. Like, I don't know if that means,
like what a disaster.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Disaster relief and why would Mama ever have something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So to this day, no one knows for sure if
this voicemail was Mara on the line or not, and
if so, why was she crying like that? What was
she trying to say, if anything before the message cut off?
So this is just another one of those eerie things
that is just what's what makes the case so fascinating
(06:22):
to so many people. Yeah, law enforcement couldn't trace who
used the calling card, and no further calls like that
were ever reported. So by the end of that first week,
as search efforts expanded, law enforcements tone shifted. After days
of combing the area with no success, New Hampshire State
Police Lieutenant John Scarnza he acknowledged this mystery publicly, and
(06:50):
he noted, quote, we certainly don't know why Mara left school.
We don't know why Mara left school. What clearly did
not make sense was that she didn't confide in anyone
end quote. The lack of answers would eventually lead the
case to be transferred to the state Cold Cases Unit
in two thousand and nine, So four years later.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So in those years since, the officials have maintained that
the investigation remains active, even if periods of intense search
have come and gone. As Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff
Strelzen he said in twenty ten, we don't know if
(07:33):
mar is a victim, but the state is treating it
as a potential homicide. It's being handled as a criminal investigation.
All right, but this is six years later.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Absolutely good luck to everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Uh no, I mean good.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I guess, yeah, but a little late, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes, And speaking of that, this was a cold comfort
to the Murray family, who from day one felt that
all of this basically precious time had been lost completely.
You know. The father became very vocal about all of
these missteps that he saw, and at one point he
even petitioned the governor, and he started filing lawsuits in
(08:15):
an effort to obtain police records and push the case forward.
But in those initial days of February two thousand and four,
no one could have predicted that Mara's fate would still
remain unsolved for literal decades. And well, as you see
right here, the true crime community would still be talking
about it to this very day. So here are some
(08:36):
of the theories and the speculations about what was going
on there. So the first one, abduction or foul play,
Now see, that's the first one that should have been
on the radar.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And I don't think like I just think it's it
had to be somebody who passed in the car. And
you know, she, I'm sure came across as someone vulnerable,
Butcher commented, she really wasn't dressed that great for the weather,
so she's like compromised in that way. I'm sure she
was emotional. I it had to be someone in the car,
(09:11):
especially the dogs, the fact that the scent was just gone.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So obviously, like I said, the first theory is that
some predator, either an opportunistic stranger or somebody local, perhaps
one of the motorists who passed by after the crash.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
They offered Mara a ride and then they harmed her.
Like you just said, The fact that her scent ended
abruptly on the road supports the idea that she entered
a vehicle. Over the years, there have been a few
questionable individuals on the radar. So in late two thousand
and four, for example, one man turned over a rusty,
(09:53):
blood stained knife, alleging that his own brother, who lived
less than a mile from the crash site and had
a criminal history, might have used it to kill Mara.
And this reminds me of who what was the case
where everybody, like everybody and their brother was turning in
this man.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I was gonna say it was with the brother and
the brother in law, but I don't think it actually
was the one who like what was that, Tamala. I
don't think it was.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That case though, because it wasn't dB Cooper. Well, I
mean his family, his family members were doing that. But
I could have sworn this with somebody else, I.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Agree with you, and I can't think of which one
it was.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
But there was something like somebody who didn't somebody take
the wife, saw the husband drop something into a river.
I thought it was yours, doubo dv it was doobu coopoo,
it was.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
dB Cooper well allegedly.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Well, yes, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think we should just leave him alone. He was
a gentleman, a gentleman and a scholar for the eight
hundredth time.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
All right, well, but that was the case. Anyway, this
guy is saying that his brother might have done it. Then,
in two thousand and six, there were cadaver dogs searching
an a frame house in the neighborhood where Mara disappeared
that was once occupied by that very brother. So when
(11:32):
they were in there, they reportedly went quote unquote bonkers.
I love that word, signaling the possible presence of human
remains in a closet. So this led investigators to cut
out some of the carpet for testing. Why didn't you
just open the door? I guess they don't know did However,
(11:57):
no definitive evidence linking these fines tomorrow has ever been
made public. The carpet samples did not yield any answers.
Now they might have checked it three years later, but
still didn't yield any answers, and the knife story was
never corroborated. So some family members of that man later
(12:18):
claimed that he made it up for attention or reward money.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Classless, yes, and cruel, Yeah, you know it.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Still, the foul play theory remains credible to many, including
Mara's father, who long to believe that what he calls
a bad guy encountered Mara on that road during that night,
and in his view, someone local might have quickly picked
her up in that brief window and harmed her. Disposing
(12:50):
of evidence in the remote mountains where this road was.
This theory is chilling, but of course it would explain
the total lack of trace left behind. And, as one
retired police detective said in an interview about this, quote unquote,
it appears that something beyond a mere missing person case
(13:10):
is happening here. Something ominous could have happened.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, yes, sir, absolutely, ding ding ding, We're the e
f and bells.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He ain't just whistling Dixie, of course, the next one,
the big old favorite, the old standby. She ran away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Wants to start again. Are we to interfere?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
We aren't. We shan't. On the flip side, many speculate
that Marra just orchestrated this on her own, that she
intended to leave her old life behind and start fresh elsewhere.
Proponents of this theory point to her actions that day
as evidence that she was planning. She lied about a
family desk, she withdrew cash, she packed her car with
(13:57):
her belongings, and she was researching places to stay in
both New Hampshire and Vermont. So could Mara have just
been escaping something academic pressure, legal trouble, relationship issues and
she just wanted to get away from it all? As
even her family initially thought this when they saw the
(14:17):
way she had packed her car. But that's a pretty
big jump from I need a break too, I'm starting
a new life exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And not to return or communicate with anyone. To not
have told a single soul about any of this, it
just scares me for her.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There are more extreme versions of this theory, Like one
of them talks about how Marra might have secretly met
up with another person, whether that was a friend or
a lover who was traveling separately and together they disappeared
and maybe went to Canada.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Where did that?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like, that's so specific Canada?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, that that's what she was up to. So arbitrary,
I mean, I guess she just went farther north, I suppose,
but like where the hell, Like there weren't even any
travel plans or like a passport was out or anything
to make anyone think she was going and leaving the country.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Maybe she did it great, maybe she did it very secretively.
Well yeah, I don't know. I guess they just thought
Canada would be the place.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I guess, like New England makes sense, like distance wise,
but it just is odd to me you would go
straight to that, And I guess they didn't go straight
to it, but like, you know, yes, it's the northernmost country.
Does that make sense to say, yeah, sure, from there?
But I just think it's like a bit of a leap,
I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I see, Well, oh right, right, who are any of us?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So okay, there was this in terms of the Canada thing.
There was this investigative journalist by the name of James Renner,
and he was talking that he was like pursuing these
leads a Mara was alive in Canada under a new identity,
although nothing concrete ever emerged from this, and skeptics of
the runaway theory point out that all of Mar's personal accounts,
(16:10):
like her bank cards, her phone, everything went dark right
after she disappeared on February ninth, not to mention that
she left behind all of her items that can't be traced,
like books, stuffed animals, these things that she that were
left in the car. So like people are just saying,
why would you assume that she is just be bopping
(16:32):
around Canada?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Right, But those things specifically make me ysterrible as this
is make me think, like, you know, she was pretty
soon no longer with us after that all happened.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I assume so as well. So the next one is
accidental death. Of course, we always have the oldie but
a goodie hypothermia of the hypothermia, So this one is
that you know, she crashed. She sets out on foot
because she she so she does it purposely though she
still wants to run away. She sets out on foot
(17:09):
because she doesn't want to get caught for the dui,
and then she just succumbs to the elements because that
night was recorded to be around thirty two degrees fahrenheit,
so I mean it obviously, and she wasn't dressed to
be out there in the cold and all of that stuff,
so like not a good situation, and then being drunk
on top of it, you're probably not even feeling the
(17:30):
elements as much as.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I remember in college, Like you know, I went to
school in a cold climate, and yeah, we would be
waiting for the shuttle, like the drunk bus to take
us to like a city that all the bars and
like clubs and stuff were and it was like the
schools like initiative to get you there safely. Like so
(17:52):
nobody would drive the outfits that we would be in
in winter in this area, and like we of course
pregamed before we would go out, and like we would
be so scantily clad and waiting outside for this thing
to arrive. And I mean we did more than probably pregame, like,
(18:13):
but we didn't feel a damn thing. I mean, we
were like immune to the elements. It was insane. And
which back to her though in the car and what
she left in the car. And I may have said
this earlier, but I still it makes me wonder if
her intention was to return to the car at some
point and that is why she left certain things that
(18:33):
were important to her.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, I mean we'll never know,
So I guess there is so people who think that
maybe this death was accidental, right they I guess they
often talk about this one case and it's called the
case of the Old Swamps quote unquote yikes. Or I
guess another word for it is the old squaw walk.
(18:58):
I thought that said squawk walk, but it's not squawwalking, right,
which I'm assuming has to be Native American. I was thinking,
so Mara's father referenced this, and it's the notion of
somebody wandering into the snowy woods basically to die purposely,
like like sometimes they would like I don't know, it
(19:18):
says like, I'm assuming that's what they're trying to say
that this squaw walk is almost kind of like the
suicide forest, like culturally, right, I'm thinking, like the elements
are bad, maybe not even maybe it's just you're going
into the woods and you're just thinking you're gonna perish
in there. I'm not sure, So, you know, I guess
(19:39):
early on some law enforcement was thinking that Mara was
just distraught from crashing two cars in two days. She
might have been suicidal at that point, and then she
just walked into the dark forest to enter her life.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well can I interrupt you?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, Well, there were never any signs though in the
forest that she was in there to begin with.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So oh so probably not like because if you're.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
If she's gonna if she's planning on ending her life,
is she going to care that somebody follows her footprints?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
By that point, you'd imagine not, right she I wouldn't
imagine like if she wanted her body to be found.
But there's so much speculation in that. I was going
to say in terms of like that she potentially wanted
to commit suicide. Take out that she just got into
two car accidents in two days. I mean that obviously
(20:27):
is not good. But like I still think something was
going on with the boyfriend. I mean, you said there
were like issues with them, but like I think she
found something out and that's what led her to be
so distraught, not thinking clearly, like being distracted getting into
these accidents, drinking heavily driving and drinking like that was
it didn't sound like that was a thing that was
(20:47):
common yeah for her, like a habit. So I'm just
I'm thinking, if like she was feeling suicidal, I don't
think it was just because she got to or no,
she didn't get to DUI. But just like the accidents
involving drinking. I feel like it was maybe even other
things that were going on, Like I just there is
like a hopeless vibe in all of this, or like
(21:10):
frantic or like impulsive, like.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
A few Well, there's definitely facts to believe she was
deeply bothered by something, I mean with the drinking and stuff.
But one of the other theories is about like a
connection to possible other cases. So it says that, you know,
because of the bizarre nature of Mars disappearance, people have
wondered if it might be linked to other unsolved cases,
or if like a predator was stalking the region at
(21:32):
that point. The most often referenced comparison case to this
is the case of Brianna Maitland, who is a seventeen
year old who vanishes after her car was found abandoned
against a barn in Montgomery, Vermont, just five weeks after
Mara disappears and sixty six miles away. So both young
(21:56):
women went missing in two thousand and four under very
similar circlecumstances. Both people both women left the car behind,
it was a rural setting, it was nighttime, no traces
of the driver, so like people were wondering if there
was just something else. Serial killery right out there happening.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I mean the timing of that is kind of insane,
and the proximity.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Excuse me, I just have to say, quickly, what would
you like to say?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I would like to tell you that you recently said
a dream of yours was.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That you don't have to tell me. I know what
I said.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I'll tell the chillers. Brent informed me a dream of
his was that we are actively doing a podcast case,
episode whatever during a thunderstorm, and it's freaking.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Happenying man, Yeah, it is fally yeah, yes, right, speaking
of this serial killer. Yes, last night I watched a
not the best movie I've ever seen, but it's fair.
It was from nineteen.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Ninety nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Or maybe nineteen ninety five something with it was about
a serial killer.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You never saw this movie before now.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It was called Copycat with Sigourney Weaver. Segurny likes her.
I mean, I think she's a delight.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I don't mind her, I don't love her. It's fine,
she's fine. She's a three. Right, I'm kidding. That's terrible
funny about books, book ratings, all right, And.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And it's about her she's a gorphobic god because a
serial killer tried to kill her once because she is
like a psychologist who studies them. And then the other
person is and I don't know her name, but she
played she voiced elastic girl in The Incredible. Yes, I
(23:48):
instantly knew her voice. Wow, she's like, leave the saving
up the world to the men. I don't think so, ladies,
I don't think so. I'm not doing it good. But
you know what I do.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I know, I freaking love that movie. I never saw
the second one. I assume it was so so Okay,
that makes me feel better. I didn't watch it. The
Incredibles is one of like my up there favorite Pixar movies.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, okay, keep going. I know I have to tell
you something.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
But I mean, I'm just saying, so I watched it.
It had definitely I mean it was. It was hardcore nineties,
but in a great way.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I was gonna say, that can be very nice.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It was wonderful fresh, But I'm just saying, like it
wasn't it was no silence of the lamps, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of course not course, So speaking of movies, and like horror,
and you know, I feel like appropriate for our podcast.
Did you watch Sinners yet?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
No? I didn't. I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Ashley was very I feel like you would be into it,
but it's like super rich with history, which is not
totally your thing. This movie was freaking fantastic, Like it
was amazing. So it was an all black cast and
it you know, dealt with it. So it starts in
nineteen like I'm not sure, but nineteen thirties, so Ku
(25:06):
Klux Klan is a theme in the story. Segregation is
discrimination against black people is definitely their slavery, and vampires, so.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's i empiric.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I will say, like you know it, it's like supernatural,
but the history. Oh and also very like big into music,
specifically blues music, which was like the soundtrack was fantastic
in this movie. The storyline about the music was fantastic.
(25:43):
The cast was phenomenal and so many likable characters. So like,
you know, Ashley doesn't like horror movies and she was like, oh,
I think you're boring, but she really really wanted to
watch this. And she's like, you like horror and I
was like, yeah, but I'm like particular about it. I don't,
like I can't handle everything.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
We'll be watching Creeper.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Soon, right, absolutely, this coming weekend, absolutely right, so daylight only.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So she's like, you know, I thought you'd love this,
like you like horror. I don't, but I really want
to watch this, like all right, fair. So I loved
that she was into a horror movie wanted to see it.
So okay, so we get it. We're watching it. And
I said to her multiple times, like this isn't very
horror esque, like it took a while for there to
be the first like spooky thing that happened, and everything
(26:34):
that happened was manageable. I will say it did get
very gory at times, not consistently, but it was. It
was so well done, like I can't say enough. And
it reminded me of like how you know, like how
with certain books that I love. I'll say, like, oh,
I couldn't stop thinking about it. I thought about it
for days after. You can tell it's a sign of
a good one. Yeah, the movie, Like we've both been
(26:55):
coming like down in the morning and like waking up
and being like I was thinking about the movie again,
and we're both doing it it shows awesome, right, It's
the sign of a good freaking movie.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, I'm happy you're happy with Thank.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You, all right, sorry to interrupting getting the weeds as usual.
I wanted everybody to know, so go watch it, especially
if you're into vampires and just I don't know, you
gotta see it, all.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, you heard it here first everyone. So basically, it's
like at the end of the day, just keep in
mind that like all these different theories, they're not even
mutually exclusive, because Mar's fate could have involved different elements
of all these things, like she might have intended to
start fresh quote unquote of course and then somebody grabbed
(27:43):
her anyway, or she might have been running to hide
and then hitched a ride with the wrong person. So
I mean, I don't know. I'm just saying, there's so
many different angles and so many different combinations. So like
it means nobody's ever going to know what this means.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No, exactly hitching the ride with the wrong person. I
keep thinking to like what I said earlier about I
wonder if like she intended to come back then wasn't
able to whether, like you brought up earlier, maybe it
was just as simple as hypothermia. But the fact that
the trace of her was gone and the dogs couldn't
find her, I feel like, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's why the dogs never even went into the woods, right.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like somebody got her. And then that's of course why
then she didn't return to go get her stuff, because
I just feel like she was going to go back
for everything, and you know, if somebody freaking I just
the whole thing is extremely sad.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
So in terms of the aftermath, in the weeks and
the months that followed her disappearance, her family and friends were,
I mean, it was miserable. Obviously, of course, they refused
to let the story fade. So Mar's father, Fred, he
became the driving force behind the search for his daughter.
He was on the ground in New Hampshire within two days.
(28:58):
He organized the search parties, He plassed at flyers around
the area. Uh. Fred returned, right, Fred returned to Woodsville,
which reminds me of Woodsboro.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Absolutely, God, now remind me. I'm so sorry. We're we're
getting in a lot of movies Weeds. There is not
another one coming out. And for those of you, oh
hell yeah, man, we're talking about Scream. For those of
you who are not familiar with.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
It, because I think they as they should have brought
Nev Campbell back because that that last one was bullshit.
I don't give a damn about the others, and I
said it, I don't dare to give a damn. Frankly, anyway,
all I want is Sydney or stop.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
We should watch that tonight. God, that's a good freaking movie.
That's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Man finished, Okay, yes, yes, So he returns to Woodsville
nearly every weekend for literal years, going through the forest,
knocking on doors, chasing any tip that comes his way.
So he was obviously very dedicated. On anniversaries of her disappearance,
he would stand vigil at the crash site, just handing
(30:10):
out missing Persons posters. In November of two thousand and four,
so nine months after Mara disappeared, Fred appeared on the
Montel Williams show, Oh My God.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And you know, how does something like this not consume
you as a loved one, as a family member. I
think it could just easily take over your life, and
just yeah, it breaks my heart for these poor people,
these poor families and loved ones of the victims.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
He personally petitioned the new Hampshire governor for more help,
but he felt like it was stoned wall by what
he perceived as a lack of transparency from authorities.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Like with the investigation.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, so Fred took the extraordinary step of filing a
lawsuit in two thousand and five against law enforcement agencies
attempting to obtain case files. So like, basically he could
see what they saw. I guess. And Fred's persistence, however,
sent a clear message that the Murray family, that the
Murray family was not going to give up on finding Mara.
(31:19):
Mar's disappearance gradually grew from a local news item into
a national true crime saga. And like I said, I've
seen this everywhere. I've just never I never looked into
it before. So in two thousand and six, two years
after Mar disappeared, her story was featured on ABC's.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Twenty Barbara Walters.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I'm Barbara Welsers and this is twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
That reminds me of Adam Barreley. Oh he is a man.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
God. I was gonna say, but we don't have the
time for them.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Tell everybody about them, so please. I think his last
name is b A R A L E. T.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I don't freakingness.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I'd imagine. I'm not sure what country he's is it Australia.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I was getting, I was getting a europe vibe, but
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, he's a wonderful man and he's like a crystal guru,
and he has YouTube videos and he has, like, you know,
a particular way of speaking that reminded me of that.
And this podcast that I listened to about crystals, which
I don't have the name of it with me, but
I'll find it. And then you met, will you I will?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I shall?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I sure do, I will do it before we end today.
But I it sort of shifted and it used to
be a girl who would talk about like a crystal.
She would do like a question from a listener. She
would give the crystal history. It was like a lovely
I mean it still is lovely, but it used to
just be her. She has a crystal school. Then it shifted,
(32:47):
like I hadn't listened for a while. I went back
to it, and now it's like she calls it the
Crystal Confab, and it's like her and I want to
say three men, possibly four, and Adam is one of them.
I think I told you this, Yeah, absolutely I did. Yeah,
so highly recommend it.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, if Adam's listening, we say high.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh my gosh. If he responded commented anything, can you imagine.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I'm still waiting to hear from David Archiletta, so I
don't know if that's gonna happen anyway. Right, So, yes,
it was done on twenty twenty, which was obviously, you know,
good for getting it out there again. But I mean
by that, by that point, you know, we're two years gone,
(33:35):
so tons of blogs and forums, you know, we were
sprung from this. There was an Oxygen documentary that you know,
happened later on.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Does that channel still exist?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I don't know. I wonder if it does so, but
like Oxygen, they made a point to say that this
was the first true crime mystery of the social media
age because Facebook had just launched, oh shit, like days
I think days after she went missing, So it was
super you know early.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
That's wild. Do you real quick remember, except I don't
mean quick at all. Do you remember when Facebook came out?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I mean very lightly. I remember it would be like
brent is and then you would fill that in it
instead of like remember that, Yeah, it was like because
then you'd say like doing the dishes.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Stupid, it would suggest that or like no, like.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That's like when you were going to make a post,
it always started off with like Talia is and then
you would fill out the rest.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I don't remember that.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And then one day they just got rid of it
so you could say, whatever the hell you want.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I remember when, like, you know, it obviously went to
colleges first, and we the college I went to was
not on the top of the list of Facebook. And
then when it was finally released or whatever you say,
say it was such like a huge deal and like
of course we all you know got it and did
our little profiles or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
But like I joined the Edward forty hands, Oh there
were right.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think that's when pictures kind of took off, like
you would upload these photos and like it was a
wild time. And then I don't have Facebook anymore. But
when I, you know, did post that time, it's like
insane how Facebook changed. I think it's said and you
could only get it in the beginning if you were
in college.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, that what a weird but whatever, oh that right.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Who the hell those were we to say?
Speaker 1 (35:35):
We're not so By twenty seventeen, interest in Marris's story
was like surging again, you know, because these stories get
like they kind of go away, then they like, you know,
come back whatever. Yeah, depending on like of documentaries, you know,
I'm sure The Tail and All Killer is probably back
to being pretty popular totally. So the FBI in twenty
(35:58):
seventeen conducted a fresh sweep of the area just to
kind of like, you know, I guess, just see what's
going on there, And they even excavated a basement of
a home near the crash site in early twenty seventeen
after they did some ground penetrating radar JAUSA, which suggested
(36:20):
that there was something weird under the concrete, like buried. Yeah,
but unfortunately nothing was actually found. So dead end, yeah.
Dead Oh and her father was like, he was quoted saying,
this one hurts because I thought we finally had it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That brops my heart from that Fred never gave up.
And what parent does I mean we hear that all
the time in these cases.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah. So yeah, that's basically that's what I have for
part two of mar Murray.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, you did a very good job.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Very very sad case.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
As they all are exactly as are they all exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Well, Friday the thirteenth wasn't too sad.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
That's correct. Neither was what was that thing called the murder.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Chair the Devil's chair? Right?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And what else? There were other things that weren't terrible.
You did that vampire one?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
You please?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I'm so sorry. I'm trying to keep the microphone by
my mouth and I was doing pretty well.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But that's well, I don't know. The vampire one where
the entire family dies, I don't know. That wasn't all
kicks and giggles.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But all right, it's pretty terrible. That example, That one
wasn't too bad.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I mean they did they did? You know what was it?
Unbury most of the family? What resumed bell?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The bell? No eg zoom egg zoom?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yes, they did exzoom the family they could like cut
off their head or something. But hey, that wasn't too sad.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Not that one I was.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Trying to Crampis that one's not sad?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
And murder road I think I was getting crossed. Yeah,
Olmder wrote us a book by some own Saint James
that I talked about, right, all right, I gotta go, Yeah,
I'm getting crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Oh, we don't want that now, all right, so everybody,
thank you for everyone. Okay, thanks everyone, As Talia says,
thank you for tuning in. It's been a pleasure. And
until we see you again, stay safe and stay chill.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Come bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Bye everyone, you've just listened to Chilworthy. Thank you for
joining us on this latest episode. While we strive to
keep our discussions engaging and lighthearted, we also wanted to
take a moment to acknowledge the real lives and events
that are at the heart of these stories.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
We try to approach each topic with a sense of
curiosity and respect fully, aware of the impact these events
have had on the individual and their loved ones. Our
goal is to honor their memories by keeping their stories
alive and shedding light on the mysteries that surround them.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate
and leave a review, and don't forget to join us
on the next episode of Chilworthy.
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