May 15, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, we delve deep into the journey of President & Fractional CFO Josh Luebker, exploring the milestones, challenges, and insights that have shaped his career. From humble beginnings to leading innovative tech ventures, Josh shares invaluable lessons on entrepreneurship, resilience, and the future of technology.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, Welcome to another episode of c OPOD. I'm
your host, Caroline, and today I'm joined with Josh love Kerr. Josh,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm doing good? How are you? Caroline?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doing really good? This is a long awaited podcast guest
here everyone, this is super exciting to have Josh on today.
I know I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, last time we met, it was it was a
good conversation, just hanging out and it's always like, you
wait a month between that and this, So I'm glad
to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It really builds up that anticipation for this conversation. Awesome.
So let's start it out really really basic here, Josh,
how are you? What do you do? And tell me
a little bit about your journey to get to where
you are today.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, I'm Josh Loveker I'm the construction CFO. I hope
subcontractors really hone in their their finances and it goes
far beyond just numbers accounting all of that stuff. It's
it's operational, you know. We want to have a diligent background,
so everybody does things the same way. That's revocable and
(01:13):
scale people quick. But my background I started out as
an electrical subcontractor. So I have my master electrical license.
I started out of Google Data center. I've done I
want to say everything, but i haven't done every every
single thing. But I've done data centers, hospitals, hospitality, high rises, government, FAA, runways,
(01:37):
all that airport stuff. And I've seen it from the
highest level like three hundred billion or sorry, three hundred
million to one billion dollar subcontractors. And I'm trying to
make it simple for scaling and new subcontractors. There's a
it's really easy to get there. It's not corporate. It's
just a standardized way of doing things, so everything efficient
(02:01):
and that increases your production.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, definitely having those standardized procedures is super important for people,
you know, and subcontracting, contracting. I mean, we could literally
apply this to anything, and these processes were still so vital,
right right, So you know, why did you make that
switch from being out in the field to now helping
(02:27):
those that are out in the field, you know, with
these processes and streamlining all of this.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I guess I should have prefaced a little bit better.
I was a PM most of my career. I was
in the film maybe a year and a half. But
I wanted to command the respect or garnish that by
getting my license. So it's not necessarily that I was
out there, but I got into this side because the
human dynamic and then the pressure of being a PM
(02:52):
is so great and people just keep piling stuff on.
I got burnt out from that. So now you know,
I like spread sheets, I like numbers, I like to
doing I like doing things on my time, and I'm
very efficient with my time. So being just your own
business owner when you can, when you have that drive
and that lifestyle, it's it's nice Like last night, I
(03:15):
worked for two hours from eight to ten, and I
knocked out tons of different things for people that if
I if I was working eight to five and I
had that that streak at the end of the day,
I wouldn't have gotten anything done.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So now and having that flexibility also probably helps a
lot with that work life balance. I know you're also
a dad, congratulations, so it definitely probably helps with that
work life balance.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It does.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It does.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Just our our dynamic between my wife and I, we
put the kids down at seven, we have an hour
together and then she goes to bed and I stay
up in case the kids get up, and that's when
I try to get a little bit of work done,
and that's very beneficial. It's it's atypical in today's life.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, and I know, you know a lot of people
that don't have that same flexibility really really struggle with
worth like work life balance. You know, what are some
things that they can do to you know, help improve that,
just from like a general overview, because you know, there
are so many things that we can do, right, Well,
what are some of those big things that you found
that you know, maybe when you didn't have that flexibility,
(04:28):
that you would do to help with that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah. So I always was training new people, whether it
was an assistant project manager or other project managers. And
what I've found is everybody has a different level of
how much they can handle. But if so, you can't
just hire somebody and say, well, you get five projects
and they're worth this much money. But you can say, okay,
this is your baseline, and I'm going to help show
(04:52):
you how to do all of this busy paperwork that
the industry requires us to do, to be doing your
in thirty hours a week or twenty five and then
since your salary, you know, we're not the problem is
you get to that point, and then people pile more
on you. They're like, oh, we can make more money
off of as person. But at the end of the day,
it's it's like there's the ebb and flow and you
(05:14):
have to understand twenty hours a week, thirty hours a week.
That's like, that's hard to accomplish, and it's not always
going to be like that. When you start a project,
you have to work forty fifty sixty hours a week.
So what I've tried to do was hone in that
work life balance in process like we talked about, and
that drives employee satisfaction and happiness improves retention, and then
(05:39):
obviously your profits goes. Like it sounds counterintuitive, they're working less,
I should be making more off of them, but you
get more profits because people are happier and they want
to be there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, And usually that happiness and wanting to be there
translates into quality, good work.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, exactly, and a happy employee a happy customer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, I mean, happiness with all our employees is one
of the most important things. And you know, I feel like,
thinking way back, you know, years and years ago, that
really wasn't a big topic. It was more of like
you know, let's give them a pizza party and they'll
be happy. You know, I'm so glad we are away
from that model and actually focusing on the things that
(06:25):
do make people happy.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I think that I'll stem from my grade school. Remember,
they'd be like, hey, if you get an A on
your test, if this many people score high, then we're
gonna have a pizza party for the class. So what
happens we all graduate elementary school, finally get in the workforce,
and we're like, oh, that worked perfect for me when
I was five, let's do it now.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, And those pizza slices were always like yay, big
and big.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
They were on a teacher salary, so it's kind of
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, but I mean, you know what, at least they
were doing what they could for us as kids, but yeah,
exactly as adults, that doesn't translate as well.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
It doesn't know, we don't feel like we belong or
we have a sense of purpose. And when you feel that,
you really do increase your production.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah. Yeah, let's take it back a little bit and
talk a little bit more about what you do and
you know, some of the challenges that you've seen with
this work, so you know, you spent all that time
as an electrical subcontractor working on some really major projects
like the Google data centers. What were some of those
operational challenges that you encountered that really led to you
(07:31):
wanting to be the one to optimize those processes and
not have to deal with those challenges anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You know, I've worked for seven different companies, and I've
now worked with over fifty different ones myself independently, and
I've learned that everybody does things slightly different, and the
way they got there is because of the challenges they had.
They just made it work. And then we get so
committed to well, this is how I had to do it,
and this is this worked, and so I'm going to
(07:59):
just stay to it, and this is now my process.
I'm gonna teach everybody, But it might take four hours
longer than it should, right with ever evolving software, with
just the way that maybe it had to be done
for one specific one, Like at Google, we couldn't use
any kind of virtual at the time. We couldn't use
(08:20):
any virtual plans because they were worried about people stealing information.
Proprietory proprietary stuff. You had to sign an NBA just
to work on site. So it's it's crazy to me
that nowadays we still have that same mantra of like, well,
I'm going to have paper plans, like yeah, maybe my
(08:41):
super likes them. But at the same time, I'm going
to try to give him paper plans and this iPad
so that way he doesn't have to carry him around.
What I what I've really seen is because everybody does
it so differently, I've gotten a taste of like, hey,
this is ultimately like my third company, I was like,
what's the point in what I'm trying to do? And
then I figured out, Okay, this is the point of
(09:03):
something basic a submittal. This is the point of me
getting an AP report or an AR report. So it
avoids this long term in the business. And so a
lot of people, though I've learned, don't have that drive.
They just you know, we go to meetings and it's like, hey,
you're ar you need to go collect this money from
this client. Well, hey, I email them and they didn't
(09:24):
answer me. What do you want me to do?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But if you understood as a business, if you teach
this is what AR means. If we haven't collected it,
this is how much it's costing us. This is why
you're not going to get a bonus this year because
we don't have the finances in house. You know, sales
price does not equal profit or revenue or any of that.
So I really honed in on it's the EOS model.
(09:51):
And I don't want to advocate one way or the
other for that, but it's like, if we're all going
the same direction and we all have the same goal
and we understand where we're going, then we can get
there so much more effectively because it's not like accountings
trying to fight with the PM on how we're accomplishing something.
We do the same, we know the common goal, so
we work together to get there instead of well, this
(10:13):
is what I'm being yelled at to do and this
is what you're yelled at to be doing, So which
one's more important?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, and it makes things run a lot smoother too,
especially without all that yelling, all the you know, you
didn't do your job, so I can't do my job,
therefore our job's not getting done.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah. It was always passive aggressive emails when I saw
it in corporate.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Oh yeah, those passive aggressive emails cut deep.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, don't worry. I'm good at them. I just
I don't love to send them, but I'm good at them.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah. I feel like everyone has a certain degree to
where they take those passive aggressive emails and their skill
level with them. Yeah, it really really makes someone feel
something from that.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you know, if we focus our energy on it
instead of getting better at how am I going to
position myself to not be in trouble for this?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
How can I position myself to not have to deal
with this next time? That humility really helped me grow
and now I'm trying to put that into easy processes
so everybody can do it. Because at the end of
the day, like, yeah, I market the construction CFO because
cash flow is the problem. That's the sorry, that's the
(11:26):
symptom of all of these problems, and I understand the
underlying problem, so I fix them as I go.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah. You know, you talked a little bit about EOS.
I want to get into that a little bit more now.
So that is the entrepreneurial operating system. And you've implemented
this in you know, everything from mom and pop construction
businesses all the way to you know, probably bigger. But
can you share you know, a success story, or maybe
(11:53):
one that wasn't even a success but was a great
learning opportunity of how this really transformed a companies operations
or did it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, I'll give you two. One that I'm working with currently.
It's a newer contractor and they want to get into
the market and do all these different things. And like
I'm a business owner, I get it. I have the
shiny object syndrome. I'm like, oh, my website needs updated,
or I'm not marketing this well enough. I'm gonna get
into YouTube all the things, but which one moves the needle?
(12:27):
And so I helped him fill out the vto the
visual tracking organizer. I forgot what I think that's what
it's called off hand, but basically, it's your goals. What's
my ten year goal broken up into three year goals,
broken up into annual and quarterly goals, So that way
you know what am I doing to move the needle
(12:47):
to get closer to that? And it helped him with
some of the direction instead of coming to me, hey
can I afford to do this? And it's like we're
estimating something completely different than what his his market was,
what he wanted to be known for, just because he
wanted to chase you know, I want to build a
big company, and I see it happening over here and
(13:08):
over here. But you know, when you do, when you're
a master of everything, you're you're really good at nothing right.
So that the EOS really helped with that. And like
a solo entrepreneur or soloreneur, whatever you want to call it,
it helps in that aspect. But then I also went
to a I want to say now they're about a
(13:29):
four hundred million dollar company electrical contractor. Yeah, and I
got hired in to help. They bought a small company,
small mom and pop shop, and they used EOS in
their main company and they wanted to implement it and
bring them up to speed and all of that. And
it helped to take people from I don't know what
(13:52):
I'm doing, Like I work here, my my my title
is admin, but I do payroll. I do admin, I
do run things to the post office. I am the
executive assistant to the owner. I do project management, I
bill I collect aright, do business development, I do everything
(14:13):
to Okay, when your title is this, these are your
roles and how you help the business get to this goal.
And it helps people not feel like they're responsible for everything.
Because when when when you have companies that don't have
those clear guidelines, everybody feels like they're being taken advantage of,
(14:37):
and they think things and they say things like I
don't make as much as this person, and I'm doing
their job for them, like they're the PM, they should
do this, They're they're the accountant, they should be doing
collecting my AR for me. You know. But if we
stopped putting people in buckets by their job title, and
that's what the EOS does, we say, hey, the goal
(15:00):
is that we want to get we want to open
these many branches in this timeframe. And the way we
do that is the PM. You know, your rock for
this is to have AR under forty five days period accounting.
You know that that's their rock, but also yours is
to help them see when it's becoming a problem in
case they're not on top of it or they need
(15:21):
your backup. So it helped all of us get there.
And ultimately, what I've learned is when everybody's responsible for everything,
nobody's responsible for anything.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yes, yeah, accountability is super super super important. I can't
talk about that enough.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah yeah, but you know you can't. Sorry, I mean
you can't go out. You can you can't assign accountability.
You can assign responsibilities, but for somebody to be accountable,
it's an internal thing and they have to want to
do it. So when you have that EOS and you
have it helps people. Nobody in your company wants to
(16:03):
just be there and hate the company and all of this.
They want to succeed, They want to prove themselves, they
want to be an asset. So if if you give
them the capability and the environment to succeed, then you'll
you know, I've seen twenty percent additional profit from the
same exact team just by doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow. And probably team morale has gone up too. You know,
you're taking out that, you know, the confusion of the
tasks and who they're assigned to, and also a little
bit of the competition between those tasks too.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So yeah, it's it's I mean, I'll get into l
topics with you if I want. If we need to
do it's the infinite mindset versus the finite mindset, Like
is there only one promotion and I have to get
the foreman job or the PM job or is it hey,
once once we all are in alignment. There's going to
be five PM jobs and we're going to have to
(16:57):
hire outside people anyway, and I need to start training
people below me so we can constantly grow.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, you talk a lot about
bridging the gap between project management and accounting. So what
strategies have you found most effective for getting these You know,
traditionally very different departments to work together and work together
seamlessly and well without that competition, without that, you know,
(17:27):
any other of those factors.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's not a one size fits all. I can't go
to a company and say, Okay, I'm going to train
all the pms to do it this way, and I'm
going to train all the accountants to do it this way. Yes,
it helps to have like boundaries like that, but there's
also the nuance of people's personalities. I've worked with some
pms that are so good at the field side and
they can solve any problem, but when it comes to
(17:50):
doing a change order, they're like they put it off
for months or weeks because they're like, I hate Excel,
you know, in their mind they're like, it's going to
take me ten hours to do it because I'm not
good at software. And so when you meet that person
and you can kind of nuance help them learn their
(18:10):
little area, or maybe it's something that the accountant is
really good at and they can well help blur the
line go across and help do some of the stuff
for the PM, like pull the right data for them
to have immediately on who's on the job, how much
they cost, all that kind of stuff. If you get
(18:30):
people to work together and meet people where they are,
it really helps. And I always give the simplest example
where I was in my office one morning and I
had the office admin come in and just like stand
there with a stack of paper in my doorway and
look at me and like you dumb mffor why did
you cause me all this work? And I was like morning,
(18:52):
and she just slams it on my desk and says
like I needed to take care of this now and
walks out. And I mean she was younger, but like
that's kind of like the typical office to whatever mindset,
And I was newer, so I didn't take it personally.
But then what I noticed is I need to build
the relationship with that person so they feel like they
(19:14):
come into my office and they can talk to me,
and I'm trying to help them make their job easier.
I don't. I'm not trying to do it wrong. All
I did was click the button wrong, and so I
put I didn't. I didn't properly assign a PO and
so it caused all this backwork for her to dig
in and figure out what happened. But once I found
(19:36):
that out, you know, obviously I'll fix it. It's one button.
But I always start out. I started out every day.
Then I would go into her office because it was
on the way to mine. I'd just stop by and say, hey,
good morning, how what did you do last night? You know,
I got to know about her dog and her husband
and all these things. And you know, after my two
(19:56):
and a half years there, it was like, hey, we
like Josh. You know, he's different than all the other pms.
He he doesn't want to make my life out of
He's not trying to make me look bad in front
of everybody else.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Building the real personal relationships with people, you know, that
just extend beyond you know, what happens in the office
and what work gets done really helps to you know,
it helps with that communication. It helps with understanding each
other and understanding where they're coming from you know, I
didn't purposely do this wrong. I just you know, I'm
(20:32):
given make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Right, you know. And if I think back to the
efficiency of why I did the CFO stuff, it's like
that conversation and that that that threw off my whole
funct way for the day and it probably ruined herd night,
the night before and the day that day of Yeah,
and instead all I had to do was have a conversation.
Now I have a thirty second, not even thirty five seconds,
(20:54):
I click this box, this happens. And now how like
I we cumulate might have ten to twenty hours of
less stress, freedom to do whatever we need to do
because we're not trying to track down crap that didn't
need to happen exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, and you know, we're talking about this communication between
teams and meeting people where they're at. But you know,
a really big part of this also comes with trust
and transparency between team members. So you know, how do
you help companies build that between each other because that
is arguably so much more difficult than you know, putting
(21:34):
in an EOS system and training and you know, doing
all that technical stuff. Once you get down to the
person and trying to foster and teach that trust and transparency.
I imagine that's got to be a lot more difficult.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It sounds like it is, but it really isn't. There's
so many people in this CFO world or the COO
world anywhere, and they want to get involved in things
and then kind of delegate, like all you have to
do is this, come back to me next week and
we'll have our conversation about this. And I try to
take a different approach where like I'm an extension of
(22:12):
your team. I'm an employee for you, but you don't
have to pay me benefits and all of that. I
take care of my own because I want the tax
write offs and all that stuff. But anyway, what I
mean by that is people don't get into the weeds.
They don't get granular if you give If you set
those two people in a room, the accountant and the
project manager, and you're like, okay, here's here's the goal.
(22:34):
We want to make sure that this vendor gets paid
within this many days. What are all the things that
have to happen for this to happen? And you make
a flow chart, You're like, okay, we'll start with billing PM,
you have to bill this, this is what your contract says.
This is how much we need to build. This is
how you find it. This is accountant where you can
help teach your PM where we're at, how to project
(22:55):
that kind of thing. Okay, that's one branch. Next one
is you have to write the PO on time. You
have to then flow down is it written properly? Is
it invoice properly? Are they is it posted instead of
just draft mode? All of those kind of things, because
that's the one thing that accountants hate is when a
PM writes a PO and leaves it in draft, so
(23:17):
they don't know when they get the invoices that are
approved or not, can I pay it or not? Yeah,
And pms are so busy with fires they never answer.
So that's a big one. And then you get into
other things down the line. Is our specific software this
that or the other thing. Once you lay it all out,
then you can say, okay, which which responsibility is the
(23:38):
PM and they'll mutually agree like this is where it
stops and this is where the accountant should start.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Typically there's a little bit of a gray area of like, well,
I thought the account should be doing this part not me.
And that's where if you just say, okay, like what
do you think we should do? I don't like to
impose my will on companies and say this is how
it should be. It's more like who has more available time?
Does it make more sense to your AP or your
(24:05):
AR person does this or does it make more sense
that since the PM has a relationship, do they do it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And really stating those roles is super important.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, and it's just getting granular. It's really not complicated
if you if you draw it out because people are
so visual. Yeah, and have them tell you all the
little parts that have to happen. I don't even have
to be part of the company and I know this,
and then just have them not find it out but
explain it to me like I'm new to the company
(24:37):
and I'm stupid. And then pretty soon it's like the
light bulbs are going off and you're like, I think
you guys solved your own problem. You didn't need me anyway, And.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's like you were just sitting there as like, you know,
the the mediator between the two recently divorced parents and
they figure it out, but it's you know, it was
there the whole time. It exactly needed someone to facilitate
that conversation exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And that's why I say it's not hard. It's just
people are all about revenue and profit and using the
least amount of time possible. And it's like, if I
could solve this problem, if I have to solve it once,
I'm going to solve it and do it right so
I never have to do it again. Yeah, that's my goal.
And what I do is I never want to I
(25:23):
never want to talk to that PM and that accountant
ever again about the same conversation. If I do, I
just point them back. I'm like, you guys told me
this happened. Why don't you do this?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah? And then then you know, another big part of
what you do is fractional CFO is helping subcontractors scale
their operations. And you know, we talk about how scaling
is super important, but on the other hand, it's also
really important that you know, while we're scaling, we still
keep our company culture, our personal touch, you know, and
(25:56):
not lose out on that. So you know, what, if
you said, how do you help with that?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, it comes down to your hiring process, and I
know that that's kind of like a catch all and
a buzzword and whatever with so many people the culture,
but really what it means and what it looks like
to me being I've been in the PM role where
we had to hire ten people in six months to
take on all this work. What it means to me
(26:23):
is you're growing too fast. You can't. You have to
minimize your revenue to get people in place. And you
have to. It's that old saying, and I feel like
I beat dead horses all the time. But here's another
one plant the tree today that you want in twenty years.
So if you know you want to be at thirty
million and you need ten pms to do it, you
(26:46):
don't get thirty million and then backfill with ten pms.
You slowly get one per year and gain ten percent
or twenty percent and then eventually you're there. Right, it's
a process. It's there's no getting rich quick in anything
in the world, and if it is, it's typically unethical.
So yeah, if you follow the process that we all
(27:11):
know works. You know, if you want to be the
best football player, you practice. If you want to be
the best musical instrument player, you practice. You do the process,
trust the vision, do the process. That's it.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, take a step back and you know, really slow
things down to move things forward. It sounds counterintuitive, but
you know, from everything you've talked about, it works. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's I learned it from the military and when I
fought fire. I wasn't in the military. It was when
I worked on government projects. But they always said slow
as smooth, smooth as fast, and that means do it right,
even though it might take longer, but when you do
it that way, you never have to go rework it,
and so it's faster in the long run. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, and you know, we am switching gear a little
bit here. Last time we talked, we had a great
discussion about you know, mental health, and that is one
of the things in the construction industry that is just
you know, it's really hitting us hard and it's really
plaguing this industry. And you know, do you work with
your clients on any you know, mental health initiatives to
(28:21):
implement into their businesses, especially when scaling.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Not specifically, it's kind of like a byproduct because selling
mental health to a business doesn't necessarily work, and it's
you know, I'm never going to get clients to come
to me that want to work on that. But when
they come to me because they are like, my cash
flow sucks, and it's like, well, let me improve everybody's workflow,
which intrinsically makes their them happier, which makes their mental
(28:48):
health better at work all day.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
More work life balance for them.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
There's so many benefits to it. You know, you just
have to I hate I hate the marketing thing. If
I could just tell people like, here's your problem, here's
what I can do to solve it doesn't work. So
I have to talk about things that make people feel
frustrated and they need help on my cash That.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Is a good marketing strategy, you know, just being cut
and dry with it. Here's your problem, here's how I
can help.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
No one will listen.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
But it's like you go on LinkedIn and like you
think about the impression side, it's like that gets like
fifty impressions. But if you're like your cash flow sucks
and all of these things, and then all of a
sudden you're like, oh wow, I went viral.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Your comments section probably is crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, and then the more hot take you make, and
then it just like you have to get eyes before
you can really get ears.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, you know, You are pretty big on LinkedIn. I've
stalked your LinkedIn quite a few times. You know, you've
done a multitude of different webinars, podcast you just recently
did a webinar with lumber Yeah, about some cash flow
hacks and all of that. I had the pleasure of
being behind the scenes for that. That was great your
(29:57):
conversation with Lance. But you know, how did you get
started with doing your marketing? I guess we'll call it
on so like on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And everybody talked about your personal brand, and it's like,
whenever I've worked at a company, I've always gotten the
same feedback, like if I could just have a couple
more of you, and you know, that's such a big
compliment and it's it's humbling. But I I thought, like,
what do I do that's so different? And then how
do I help people who might not otherwise care about
(30:31):
the overall health of a business start to lean into
caring Because once people care, then all the dominoes kind
of Yeah, it's just it. It happened so fast, and
that's where I can say, like I've seen it do
twenty percent profit. I can't do a case study because
it's confidential information. Inside of companies, and you know as
(30:53):
soon as you say that, a GC is going to
be like, well, I want to discount because you're making
more money anyway, and it's like hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
That's not where we were going here.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But okay, well your culture is ruining our internal culture,
which is talking about more so you get a higher price.
Yea half an hours going with all that, but a.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Good conversation does We're just chit chatting.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And yeah, I've just seen a lot of things and
I wish I could prove it. I wish I could
do case studies, but that's not how it works in
the industry. Unfortunately, people hold things close to the best
because they want that competitive advantage. So I'm here to
tell you it works. I can show you how it works.
I tell you how it works, but for you to
(31:37):
see the results, you have to just trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, and you know, I've always heard you know, one
of the most difficult things to market is yourself. How
you navigated that?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Well, I leaned into my personality because.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
There's a lot there, So you got a lot to work.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
When I when I go to conferences, when I meet
with a bunch to people, like when I met with
PMS as we're doing business development all of that. I
learned that people kind of like to gravitate towards me,
and I don't know that it's I'm interesting. I make
stupid jokes when I'm listening to people. I I you know,
I just play on it. But I've learned that my
personality is polarizing too. Some people hate it and some
(32:21):
people are attracted to it. Yeah, it's it's like a
seventy thirty kind of split. And that's fine. Like, I
don't want to work with every single person in the world,
or in the industry for that matter. But if I
can meet with those four to ten people a year
that want to and and like we we vibe, it's
(32:42):
it feels effortless to have that working relationship great. And
so I lean into I'm going to be myself on
social media. I know that it's not going to get
a lot of clicks and whatever all the time, but
it's going to create the quality of who I want
I want to be perceived as and who I am
as a person. I don't want you to look at
(33:04):
that and think, like, oh, Josh does all these things
and you talk to me and I'm just some like
boring slock Like that's a like the typical CBA mind right, Yeah,
Like I'm fun, I'm energetic. I respond to emails within
thirty seconds, like you call me do yeah, text me.
(33:24):
I'm going to text you right back. Or from a meeting,
I'll call you right back. Like that's who I am
and that's what made me stand out. So I'm going
to show people that's how I am. They comment on
my post. A minute later you get a comment back.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, and you know it probably you know, it feels
really good to you know, be your authentic self and
have that space too, you know, be unapologetically you even
if you know three out of ten people don't like
it or you know whatever, that ratio is. Having that
freedom to be yourself and build a business on the
(33:58):
fact that you can be authentic self and help people
in that process, that's just that's the goal. That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And I will say it does take a toll
on your mental health, like those people that reject you
and control you and everything else. Like I've had to learn,
you know that trolls, betrolls and just ignore it.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I used to think, like, oh I look weak if
I'm going to let somebody walk all over me because
it's a PM. That's how it was perceived by the
field if I let the GC walk on me. But
now it's like I don't even have the energy or
the time to just go down rabbit holes with all
these trolls all this to ignore it. But it does
take a toll on me personally. I don't like to
(34:40):
be not liked. I don't like for people to point
out my flaws. And that's part of the problem. When
you put yourself out there, people will point out what
you do well, and they'll point out what you do
wrong in front of everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
What do you do to cope with? You know, that
feeling of you know, the the rejections, and you know,
especially probably when you first started out, it probably cut
a little bit deeper than it does now. But how
do you deal with that? How do you navigate that?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, I'd like to say drugs, but it's not. It's
it's they're done in from like my kids, right, or
all the things for me with life, Like I hear
my kid screaming my name and running over to me
every time I come out of my office at home.
You know, when we go feed the chickens in the morning,
like all of those things, all those moments I see
like I'm the dad that that he wants me to be,
(35:31):
and so like I want to be that for people
I work with, Like I'm the CFO. People want them
to want them want for themselves, wants for their growth
and their company. Not I'm gonna impose this box around
you and this is what's going to happen. I mean
it kind of some things have to be done a
(35:51):
certain way, but a lot of things are tailored and
I give I want to give that like BurgerKing approach
of I want to do it right for you, not
one size fits all and do volume.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Have it your way.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, but you know what that comes the cost of
I don't work with more than four people at a time.
I work with those four people and I know how
much time it takes. And it might be an eighteen
month plan. But you know, Romo, I'm built in the
day and if you want to pay me for two
of those slots, I can do it twice as fast. Yeah,
(36:29):
at the end of the day, like I'm going to
do it right, I'm going to build it up. I'm
not going to sugarcoat things. I I tell people all
the time like that's a really bad idea, I would
not do that, or hey, have you thought about this,
let's do this.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, it's that honesty that helps people move forward, and
you know, not just telling people what they want to hear.
You know, that's you know, I think something that I
don't know. I personally struggle with because I want to
be nice and be like, yeah, it's great, but no,
you have to have that honesty, that constructive criticism back
and say, you know what, you're not doing it in
(37:06):
the best way, but let's work together to find that right.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And it's all about the environment around that. Like trolls,
they can say the same thing like oh, I'm just
giving you constructive criticism, but it's like in the public
forum that's not okay because it's undermining who I am
and it's just disrespectful. But when it's me and the
owner and I can or you know, a group of
(37:31):
owners whatever principles, it's like I'm being honest with you
to help you, not to undermine you and take over
your business because the end of the day, like I'm
a partner, not a I'm not going to run your business.
I don't really cares a lot of risk and I
don't know anything about it. I just know how to
run business.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well, yeah, yes, I'm actually I'm going to ask you
one of the toughest questions you will hear today. It
is the easy but the toughest question, YEP. Or someone
who is just starting out who wants to do something
like you're doing, what advice do you have or what
(38:11):
is the best advice that you've ever been given?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
So as far as like posting on LinkedIn, like you
gained so much confidence by just doing it. When I
started a year and a half ago, I would beat
around the bush. I would like read something like eight
times and then post it and be like, oh god,
that's not good. So I'm going to take it down
all of that kind of stuff. But as I've done
(38:38):
it for a year and a half and I've had
some things not do well at all, you get like,
you know, fifty impressions. I've had some that have one
hundred and fifty thousand impressions. What I've learned is the
more you just do it, it's a skill. It's just like
a muscle. You go to the gym, you work out,
it's just the same thing. You got to just do it.
(39:00):
As far as like how you become a CFO or
anything really in that matter, anybody who's going to be
executive or leadership or whether that's project management or CEO,
don't just take the leap. I know everybody wants to
talk about like Alex Hermosi and just Burn or Tony Robbins,
(39:20):
burn the boats, just do it all these things like
that's great, that's fine, it works for some people. But
you need to understand what you're doing so you do
it so well that people want to work with you.
It took me ten years to get to this point
on my eleventh Like I'm a little bit I mean,
(39:42):
I could say it's fifteen years because I did so
much overtime to get here. But at the same time,
like it's just being around it and experiencing it, seeing
what doesn't work from different companies, seeing what does, and
then you take time to reflect and understand why did
it work, what's the purpose of it, like asking those questions.
(40:05):
I'm a how person. I remember five ten years ago,
I was like, how do I be at PM? And
I googled it. There's nothing online like nobody teaches you
how to do something, and so you have to really
look for those people in your organization that you trust,
that do it well at a high level, that everybody
(40:25):
wants to do it like them, and they don't have
the ego of I'm the best and I have to
improve everybody else's things. It's more of, hey, if you
want my advice, come ask me and I'll teach you.
But otherwise, like I'll let you feast your famine on
your own. I don't care. Those are the people that
(40:47):
I asked, like, what's the purpose of a submittal? Stupid question,
but it's very important. What's the like, how does the
business operate? How?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Something that nobody understands in the blue collar world or
the entry level position side, is how expensive a company
really is to a business. It's like one and a
half times your compensation rate because of payroll tax, because
of four h one k benefits, because of just your
(41:23):
health benefits, every single thing. So if a person makes
one hundred thousand, they really cost a company one hundred
and fifty thousand. So it's not like, oh, we just
need to go hire more people, it's I can't afford that.
Same with the how money comes in. Just because I
build something in January first, I can't or December first,
(41:45):
I can't pay a bonus if I haven't received it
till March, and then by March I might have to
pay all these other things because people quit and I
have to pay a head hundred to replace them, just
to stay in business. And I've learned the companies to
do that the best. They talk about that and teach
people business how they fit in that everything works more
(42:09):
cohesively and people are more patient with them. Yeah, really
long winded answer.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, And you know, one of the biggest things I
took from that in my own words is there is
no such thing as stupid questions. There is no such
I mean, okay, well yeah there is, but in this sense,
you know, even asking those most basic questions, I think really,
(42:34):
you know, you get that knowledge from people, you help
pass that down, and then you get to become those
role models and those leaders that you see in other
people that you want to be like. So I think
that's really really important.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, have that childlike mindset why not? How not? When? What?
It's like, why am I doing this? And maybe there's
a better way, and you know it, but you just
didn't know why you were doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, definitely awesome. Well, Josh, this was a great conversation.
Do you have anything else you want to add or
anything else to say.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm pretty open book when you ask me questions, but
when it comes to putting me open mic, I don't
really know what to say.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, that's what the guiding questions are for.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Awesome. So, if anyone in our audience wants to contact you,
wants to get in touch with you, how's the best
way to do that.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, you can DM me on LinkedIn, Josh Loveker, or
you can you can find me on YouTube if you
want to. If you're just hearing about me the first time,
learn about some of the things because I give away
so much free information and tools because I want people
to succeed and I can't help everybody. And at the
same time, like you can email me or find me
if i'd my website construction CFO dot net.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I appreciate you letting me have time to talk on here.
It's been fun.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, of course, I appreciate you coming in. And then
for all of our viewers and listeners out there, we'll
put all of those links down in the description for
you so you can find Josh easily. I mean, he's
not too hard to find, trust me, but I'll make
it a little easier for y'all. So, Josh, thank you
so much for coming on today. I can't wait to
(44:21):
chat with you next and see everything that you know
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to come back with some
case studies for you next time.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Oh, that'll be fun. That'll be a good one. We'll
figure out a way to make those fun on a podcast. Yeah, awesome. Well, everyone,
thank you so much for listening to this episode of
co opod. I'm your host, Caroline, and I'll talk to
you guys next time.
Hello, everyone, Welcome to another episode of c OPOD. I'm
your host, Caroline, and today I'm joined with Josh love Kerr. Josh,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm doing good? How are you? Caroline?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doing really good? This is a long awaited podcast guest
here everyone, this is super exciting to have Josh on today.
I know I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, last time we met, it was it was a
good conversation, just hanging out and it's always like, you
wait a month between that and this, So I'm glad
to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It really builds up that anticipation for this conversation. Awesome.
So let's start it out really really basic here, Josh,
how are you? What do you do? And tell me
a little bit about your journey to get to where
you are today.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, I'm Josh Loveker I'm the construction CFO. I hope
subcontractors really hone in their their finances and it goes
far beyond just numbers accounting all of that stuff. It's
it's operational, you know. We want to have a diligent background,
so everybody does things the same way. That's revocable and
(01:13):
scale people quick. But my background I started out as
an electrical subcontractor. So I have my master electrical license.
I started out of Google Data center. I've done I
want to say everything, but i haven't done every every
single thing. But I've done data centers, hospitals, hospitality, high rises, government, FAA, runways,
(01:37):
all that airport stuff. And I've seen it from the
highest level like three hundred billion or sorry, three hundred
million to one billion dollar subcontractors. And I'm trying to
make it simple for scaling and new subcontractors. There's a
it's really easy to get there. It's not corporate. It's
just a standardized way of doing things, so everything efficient
(02:01):
and that increases your production.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, definitely having those standardized procedures is super important for people,
you know, and subcontracting, contracting. I mean, we could literally
apply this to anything, and these processes were still so vital,
right right, So you know, why did you make that
switch from being out in the field to now helping
(02:27):
those that are out in the field, you know, with
these processes and streamlining all of this.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I guess I should have prefaced a little bit better.
I was a PM most of my career. I was
in the film maybe a year and a half. But
I wanted to command the respect or garnish that by
getting my license. So it's not necessarily that I was
out there, but I got into this side because the
human dynamic and then the pressure of being a PM
(02:52):
is so great and people just keep piling stuff on.
I got burnt out from that. So now you know,
I like spread sheets, I like numbers, I like to
doing I like doing things on my time, and I'm
very efficient with my time. So being just your own
business owner when you can, when you have that drive
and that lifestyle, it's it's nice Like last night, I
(03:15):
worked for two hours from eight to ten, and I
knocked out tons of different things for people that if
I if I was working eight to five and I
had that that streak at the end of the day,
I wouldn't have gotten anything done.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So now and having that flexibility also probably helps a
lot with that work life balance. I know you're also
a dad, congratulations, so it definitely probably helps with that
work life balance.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It does.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It does.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Just our our dynamic between my wife and I, we
put the kids down at seven, we have an hour
together and then she goes to bed and I stay
up in case the kids get up, and that's when
I try to get a little bit of work done,
and that's very beneficial. It's it's atypical in today's life.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, and I know, you know a lot of people
that don't have that same flexibility really really struggle with
worth like work life balance. You know, what are some
things that they can do to you know, help improve that,
just from like a general overview, because you know, there
are so many things that we can do, right, Well,
what are some of those big things that you found
that you know, maybe when you didn't have that flexibility,
(04:28):
that you would do to help with that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah. So I always was training new people, whether it
was an assistant project manager or other project managers. And
what I've found is everybody has a different level of
how much they can handle. But if so, you can't
just hire somebody and say, well, you get five projects
and they're worth this much money. But you can say, okay,
this is your baseline, and I'm going to help show
(04:52):
you how to do all of this busy paperwork that
the industry requires us to do, to be doing your
in thirty hours a week or twenty five and then
since your salary, you know, we're not the problem is
you get to that point, and then people pile more
on you. They're like, oh, we can make more money
off of as person. But at the end of the day,
it's it's like there's the ebb and flow and you
(05:14):
have to understand twenty hours a week, thirty hours a week.
That's like, that's hard to accomplish, and it's not always
going to be like that. When you start a project,
you have to work forty fifty sixty hours a week.
So what I've tried to do was hone in that
work life balance in process like we talked about, and
that drives employee satisfaction and happiness improves retention, and then
(05:39):
obviously your profits goes. Like it sounds counterintuitive, they're working less,
I should be making more off of them, but you
get more profits because people are happier and they want
to be there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, And usually that happiness and wanting to be there
translates into quality, good work.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, exactly, and a happy employee a happy customer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, I mean, happiness with all our employees is one
of the most important things. And you know, I feel like,
thinking way back, you know, years and years ago, that
really wasn't a big topic. It was more of like
you know, let's give them a pizza party and they'll
be happy. You know, I'm so glad we are away
from that model and actually focusing on the things that
(06:25):
do make people happy.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I think that I'll stem from my grade school. Remember,
they'd be like, hey, if you get an A on
your test, if this many people score high, then we're
gonna have a pizza party for the class. So what
happens we all graduate elementary school, finally get in the workforce,
and we're like, oh, that worked perfect for me when
I was five, let's do it now.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, And those pizza slices were always like yay, big
and big.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
They were on a teacher salary, so it's kind of
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, but I mean, you know what, at least they
were doing what they could for us as kids, but yeah,
exactly as adults, that doesn't translate as well.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
It doesn't know, we don't feel like we belong or
we have a sense of purpose. And when you feel that,
you really do increase your production.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah. Yeah, let's take it back a little bit and
talk a little bit more about what you do and
you know, some of the challenges that you've seen with
this work, so you know, you spent all that time
as an electrical subcontractor working on some really major projects
like the Google data centers. What were some of those
operational challenges that you encountered that really led to you
(07:31):
wanting to be the one to optimize those processes and
not have to deal with those challenges anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You know, I've worked for seven different companies, and I've
now worked with over fifty different ones myself independently, and
I've learned that everybody does things slightly different, and the
way they got there is because of the challenges they had.
They just made it work. And then we get so
committed to well, this is how I had to do it,
and this is this worked, and so I'm going to
(07:59):
just stay to it, and this is now my process.
I'm gonna teach everybody, But it might take four hours
longer than it should, right with ever evolving software, with
just the way that maybe it had to be done
for one specific one, Like at Google, we couldn't use
any kind of virtual at the time. We couldn't use
(08:20):
any virtual plans because they were worried about people stealing information.
Proprietory proprietary stuff. You had to sign an NBA just
to work on site. So it's it's crazy to me
that nowadays we still have that same mantra of like, well,
I'm going to have paper plans, like yeah, maybe my
(08:41):
super likes them. But at the same time, I'm going
to try to give him paper plans and this iPad
so that way he doesn't have to carry him around.
What I what I've really seen is because everybody does
it so differently, I've gotten a taste of like, hey,
this is ultimately like my third company, I was like,
what's the point in what I'm trying to do? And
then I figured out, Okay, this is the point of
(09:03):
something basic a submittal. This is the point of me
getting an AP report or an AR report. So it
avoids this long term in the business. And so a
lot of people, though I've learned, don't have that drive.
They just you know, we go to meetings and it's like, hey,
you're ar you need to go collect this money from
this client. Well, hey, I email them and they didn't
(09:24):
answer me. What do you want me to do?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But if you understood as a business, if you teach
this is what AR means. If we haven't collected it,
this is how much it's costing us. This is why
you're not going to get a bonus this year because
we don't have the finances in house. You know, sales
price does not equal profit or revenue or any of that.
So I really honed in on it's the EOS model.
(09:51):
And I don't want to advocate one way or the
other for that, but it's like, if we're all going
the same direction and we all have the same goal
and we understand where we're going, then we can get
there so much more effectively because it's not like accountings
trying to fight with the PM on how we're accomplishing something.
We do the same, we know the common goal, so
we work together to get there instead of well, this
(10:13):
is what I'm being yelled at to do and this
is what you're yelled at to be doing, So which
one's more important?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, and it makes things run a lot smoother too,
especially without all that yelling, all the you know, you
didn't do your job, so I can't do my job,
therefore our job's not getting done.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah. It was always passive aggressive emails when I saw
it in corporate.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Oh yeah, those passive aggressive emails cut deep.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, don't worry. I'm good at them. I just
I don't love to send them, but I'm good at them.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah. I feel like everyone has a certain degree to
where they take those passive aggressive emails and their skill
level with them. Yeah, it really really makes someone feel
something from that.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you know, if we focus our energy on it
instead of getting better at how am I going to
position myself to not be in trouble for this?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
How can I position myself to not have to deal
with this next time? That humility really helped me grow
and now I'm trying to put that into easy processes
so everybody can do it. Because at the end of
the day, like, yeah, I market the construction CFO because
cash flow is the problem. That's the sorry, that's the
(11:26):
symptom of all of these problems, and I understand the
underlying problem, so I fix them as I go.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah. You know, you talked a little bit about EOS.
I want to get into that a little bit more now.
So that is the entrepreneurial operating system. And you've implemented
this in you know, everything from mom and pop construction
businesses all the way to you know, probably bigger. But
can you share you know, a success story, or maybe
(11:53):
one that wasn't even a success but was a great
learning opportunity of how this really transformed a companies operations
or did it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, I'll give you two. One that I'm working with currently.
It's a newer contractor and they want to get into
the market and do all these different things. And like
I'm a business owner, I get it. I have the
shiny object syndrome. I'm like, oh, my website needs updated,
or I'm not marketing this well enough. I'm gonna get
into YouTube all the things, but which one moves the needle?
(12:27):
And so I helped him fill out the vto the
visual tracking organizer. I forgot what I think that's what
it's called off hand, but basically, it's your goals. What's
my ten year goal broken up into three year goals,
broken up into annual and quarterly goals, So that way
you know what am I doing to move the needle
(12:47):
to get closer to that? And it helped him with
some of the direction instead of coming to me, hey
can I afford to do this? And it's like we're
estimating something completely different than what his his market was,
what he wanted to be known for, just because he
wanted to chase you know, I want to build a
big company, and I see it happening over here and
(13:08):
over here. But you know, when you do, when you're
a master of everything, you're you're really good at nothing right.
So that the EOS really helped with that. And like
a solo entrepreneur or soloreneur, whatever you want to call it,
it helps in that aspect. But then I also went
to a I want to say now they're about a
(13:29):
four hundred million dollar company electrical contractor. Yeah, and I
got hired in to help. They bought a small company,
small mom and pop shop, and they used EOS in
their main company and they wanted to implement it and
bring them up to speed and all of that. And
it helped to take people from I don't know what
(13:52):
I'm doing, Like I work here, my my my title
is admin, but I do payroll. I do admin, I
do run things to the post office. I am the
executive assistant to the owner. I do project management, I
bill I collect aright, do business development, I do everything
(14:13):
to Okay, when your title is this, these are your
roles and how you help the business get to this goal.
And it helps people not feel like they're responsible for everything.
Because when when when you have companies that don't have
those clear guidelines, everybody feels like they're being taken advantage of,
(14:37):
and they think things and they say things like I
don't make as much as this person, and I'm doing
their job for them, like they're the PM, they should
do this, They're they're the accountant, they should be doing
collecting my AR for me. You know. But if we
stopped putting people in buckets by their job title, and
that's what the EOS does, we say, hey, the goal
(15:00):
is that we want to get we want to open
these many branches in this timeframe. And the way we
do that is the PM. You know, your rock for
this is to have AR under forty five days period accounting.
You know that that's their rock, but also yours is
to help them see when it's becoming a problem in
case they're not on top of it or they need
(15:21):
your backup. So it helped all of us get there.
And ultimately, what I've learned is when everybody's responsible for everything,
nobody's responsible for anything.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yes, yeah, accountability is super super super important. I can't
talk about that enough.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah yeah, but you know you can't. Sorry, I mean
you can't go out. You can you can't assign accountability.
You can assign responsibilities, but for somebody to be accountable,
it's an internal thing and they have to want to
do it. So when you have that EOS and you
have it helps people. Nobody in your company wants to
(16:03):
just be there and hate the company and all of this.
They want to succeed, They want to prove themselves, they
want to be an asset. So if if you give
them the capability and the environment to succeed, then you'll
you know, I've seen twenty percent additional profit from the
same exact team just by doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow. And probably team morale has gone up too. You know,
you're taking out that, you know, the confusion of the
tasks and who they're assigned to, and also a little
bit of the competition between those tasks too.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So yeah, it's it's I mean, I'll get into l
topics with you if I want. If we need to
do it's the infinite mindset versus the finite mindset, Like
is there only one promotion and I have to get
the foreman job or the PM job or is it hey,
once once we all are in alignment. There's going to
be five PM jobs and we're going to have to
(16:57):
hire outside people anyway, and I need to start training
people below me so we can constantly grow.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, you talk a lot about
bridging the gap between project management and accounting. So what
strategies have you found most effective for getting these You know,
traditionally very different departments to work together and work together
seamlessly and well without that competition, without that, you know,
(17:27):
any other of those factors.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's not a one size fits all. I can't go
to a company and say, Okay, I'm going to train
all the pms to do it this way, and I'm
going to train all the accountants to do it this way. Yes,
it helps to have like boundaries like that, but there's
also the nuance of people's personalities. I've worked with some
pms that are so good at the field side and
they can solve any problem, but when it comes to
(17:50):
doing a change order, they're like they put it off
for months or weeks because they're like, I hate Excel,
you know, in their mind they're like, it's going to
take me ten hours to do it because I'm not
good at software. And so when you meet that person
and you can kind of nuance help them learn their
(18:10):
little area, or maybe it's something that the accountant is
really good at and they can well help blur the
line go across and help do some of the stuff
for the PM, like pull the right data for them
to have immediately on who's on the job, how much
they cost, all that kind of stuff. If you get
(18:30):
people to work together and meet people where they are,
it really helps. And I always give the simplest example
where I was in my office one morning and I
had the office admin come in and just like stand
there with a stack of paper in my doorway and
look at me and like you dumb mffor why did
you cause me all this work? And I was like morning,
(18:52):
and she just slams it on my desk and says
like I needed to take care of this now and
walks out. And I mean she was younger, but like
that's kind of like the typical office to whatever mindset,
And I was newer, so I didn't take it personally.
But then what I noticed is I need to build
the relationship with that person so they feel like they
(19:14):
come into my office and they can talk to me,
and I'm trying to help them make their job easier.
I don't. I'm not trying to do it wrong. All
I did was click the button wrong, and so I
put I didn't. I didn't properly assign a PO and
so it caused all this backwork for her to dig
in and figure out what happened. But once I found
(19:36):
that out, you know, obviously I'll fix it. It's one button.
But I always start out. I started out every day.
Then I would go into her office because it was
on the way to mine. I'd just stop by and say, hey,
good morning, how what did you do last night? You know,
I got to know about her dog and her husband
and all these things. And you know, after my two
(19:56):
and a half years there, it was like, hey, we
like Josh. You know, he's different than all the other pms.
He he doesn't want to make my life out of
He's not trying to make me look bad in front
of everybody else.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Building the real personal relationships with people, you know, that
just extend beyond you know, what happens in the office
and what work gets done really helps to you know,
it helps with that communication. It helps with understanding each
other and understanding where they're coming from you know, I
didn't purposely do this wrong. I just you know, I'm
(20:32):
given make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Right, you know. And if I think back to the
efficiency of why I did the CFO stuff, it's like
that conversation and that that that threw off my whole
funct way for the day and it probably ruined herd night,
the night before and the day that day of Yeah,
and instead all I had to do was have a conversation.
Now I have a thirty second, not even thirty five seconds,
(20:54):
I click this box, this happens. And now how like
I we cumulate might have ten to twenty hours of
less stress, freedom to do whatever we need to do
because we're not trying to track down crap that didn't
need to happen exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, and you know, we're talking about this communication between
teams and meeting people where they're at. But you know,
a really big part of this also comes with trust
and transparency between team members. So you know, how do
you help companies build that between each other because that
is arguably so much more difficult than you know, putting
(21:34):
in an EOS system and training and you know, doing
all that technical stuff. Once you get down to the
person and trying to foster and teach that trust and transparency.
I imagine that's got to be a lot more difficult.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It sounds like it is, but it really isn't. There's
so many people in this CFO world or the COO
world anywhere, and they want to get involved in things
and then kind of delegate, like all you have to
do is this, come back to me next week and
we'll have our conversation about this. And I try to
take a different approach where like I'm an extension of
(22:12):
your team. I'm an employee for you, but you don't
have to pay me benefits and all of that. I
take care of my own because I want the tax
write offs and all that stuff. But anyway, what I
mean by that is people don't get into the weeds.
They don't get granular if you give If you set
those two people in a room, the accountant and the
project manager, and you're like, okay, here's here's the goal.
(22:34):
We want to make sure that this vendor gets paid
within this many days. What are all the things that
have to happen for this to happen? And you make
a flow chart, You're like, okay, we'll start with billing PM,
you have to bill this, this is what your contract says.
This is how much we need to build. This is
how you find it. This is accountant where you can
help teach your PM where we're at, how to project
(22:55):
that kind of thing. Okay, that's one branch. Next one
is you have to write the PO on time. You
have to then flow down is it written properly? Is
it invoice properly? Are they is it posted instead of
just draft mode? All of those kind of things, because
that's the one thing that accountants hate is when a
PM writes a PO and leaves it in draft, so
(23:17):
they don't know when they get the invoices that are
approved or not, can I pay it or not? Yeah,
And pms are so busy with fires they never answer.
So that's a big one. And then you get into
other things down the line. Is our specific software this
that or the other thing. Once you lay it all out,
then you can say, okay, which which responsibility is the
(23:38):
PM and they'll mutually agree like this is where it
stops and this is where the accountant should start.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Typically there's a little bit of a gray area of like, well,
I thought the account should be doing this part not me.
And that's where if you just say, okay, like what
do you think we should do? I don't like to
impose my will on companies and say this is how
it should be. It's more like who has more available time?
Does it make more sense to your AP or your
(24:05):
AR person does this or does it make more sense
that since the PM has a relationship, do they do it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And really stating those roles is super important.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, and it's just getting granular. It's really not complicated
if you if you draw it out because people are
so visual. Yeah, and have them tell you all the
little parts that have to happen. I don't even have
to be part of the company and I know this,
and then just have them not find it out but
explain it to me like I'm new to the company
(24:37):
and I'm stupid. And then pretty soon it's like the
light bulbs are going off and you're like, I think
you guys solved your own problem. You didn't need me anyway, And.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's like you were just sitting there as like, you know,
the the mediator between the two recently divorced parents and
they figure it out, but it's you know, it was
there the whole time. It exactly needed someone to facilitate
that conversation exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And that's why I say it's not hard. It's just
people are all about revenue and profit and using the
least amount of time possible. And it's like, if I
could solve this problem, if I have to solve it once,
I'm going to solve it and do it right so
I never have to do it again. Yeah, that's my goal.
And what I do is I never want to I
(25:23):
never want to talk to that PM and that accountant
ever again about the same conversation. If I do, I
just point them back. I'm like, you guys told me
this happened. Why don't you do this?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah? And then then you know, another big part of
what you do is fractional CFO is helping subcontractors scale
their operations. And you know, we talk about how scaling
is super important, but on the other hand, it's also
really important that you know, while we're scaling, we still
keep our company culture, our personal touch, you know, and
(25:56):
not lose out on that. So you know, what, if
you said, how do you help with that?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, it comes down to your hiring process, and I
know that that's kind of like a catch all and
a buzzword and whatever with so many people the culture,
but really what it means and what it looks like
to me being I've been in the PM role where
we had to hire ten people in six months to
take on all this work. What it means to me
(26:23):
is you're growing too fast. You can't. You have to
minimize your revenue to get people in place. And you
have to. It's that old saying, and I feel like
I beat dead horses all the time. But here's another
one plant the tree today that you want in twenty years.
So if you know you want to be at thirty
million and you need ten pms to do it, you
(26:46):
don't get thirty million and then backfill with ten pms.
You slowly get one per year and gain ten percent
or twenty percent and then eventually you're there. Right, it's
a process. It's there's no getting rich quick in anything
in the world, and if it is, it's typically unethical.
So yeah, if you follow the process that we all
(27:11):
know works. You know, if you want to be the
best football player, you practice. If you want to be
the best musical instrument player, you practice. You do the process,
trust the vision, do the process. That's it.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, take a step back and you know, really slow
things down to move things forward. It sounds counterintuitive, but
you know, from everything you've talked about, it works. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's I learned it from the military and when I
fought fire. I wasn't in the military. It was when
I worked on government projects. But they always said slow
as smooth, smooth as fast, and that means do it right,
even though it might take longer, but when you do
it that way, you never have to go rework it,
and so it's faster in the long run. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, and you know, we am switching gear a little
bit here. Last time we talked, we had a great
discussion about you know, mental health, and that is one
of the things in the construction industry that is just
you know, it's really hitting us hard and it's really
plaguing this industry. And you know, do you work with
your clients on any you know, mental health initiatives to
(28:21):
implement into their businesses, especially when scaling.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Not specifically, it's kind of like a byproduct because selling
mental health to a business doesn't necessarily work, and it's
you know, I'm never going to get clients to come
to me that want to work on that. But when
they come to me because they are like, my cash
flow sucks, and it's like, well, let me improve everybody's workflow,
which intrinsically makes their them happier, which makes their mental
(28:48):
health better at work all day.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
More work life balance for them.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
There's so many benefits to it. You know, you just
have to I hate I hate the marketing thing. If
I could just tell people like, here's your problem, here's
what I can do to solve it doesn't work. So
I have to talk about things that make people feel
frustrated and they need help on my cash That.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Is a good marketing strategy, you know, just being cut
and dry with it. Here's your problem, here's how I
can help.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
No one will listen.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
But it's like you go on LinkedIn and like you
think about the impression side, it's like that gets like
fifty impressions. But if you're like your cash flow sucks
and all of these things, and then all of a
sudden you're like, oh wow, I went viral.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Your comments section probably is crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, and then the more hot take you make, and
then it just like you have to get eyes before
you can really get ears.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, you know, You are pretty big on LinkedIn. I've
stalked your LinkedIn quite a few times. You know, you've
done a multitude of different webinars, podcast you just recently
did a webinar with lumber Yeah, about some cash flow
hacks and all of that. I had the pleasure of
being behind the scenes for that. That was great your
(29:57):
conversation with Lance. But you know, how did you get
started with doing your marketing? I guess we'll call it
on so like on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And everybody talked about your personal brand, and it's like,
whenever I've worked at a company, I've always gotten the
same feedback, like if I could just have a couple
more of you, and you know, that's such a big
compliment and it's it's humbling. But I I thought, like,
what do I do that's so different? And then how
do I help people who might not otherwise care about
(30:31):
the overall health of a business start to lean into
caring Because once people care, then all the dominoes kind
of Yeah, it's just it. It happened so fast, and
that's where I can say, like I've seen it do
twenty percent profit. I can't do a case study because
it's confidential information. Inside of companies, and you know as
(30:53):
soon as you say that, a GC is going to
be like, well, I want to discount because you're making
more money anyway, and it's like hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
That's not where we were going here.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But okay, well your culture is ruining our internal culture,
which is talking about more so you get a higher price.
Yea half an hours going with all that, but a.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Good conversation does We're just chit chatting.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And yeah, I've just seen a lot of things and
I wish I could prove it. I wish I could
do case studies, but that's not how it works in
the industry. Unfortunately, people hold things close to the best
because they want that competitive advantage. So I'm here to
tell you it works. I can show you how it works.
I tell you how it works, but for you to
(31:37):
see the results, you have to just trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, and you know, I've always heard you know, one
of the most difficult things to market is yourself. How
you navigated that?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Well, I leaned into my personality because.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
There's a lot there, So you got a lot to work.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
When I when I go to conferences, when I meet
with a bunch to people, like when I met with
PMS as we're doing business development all of that. I
learned that people kind of like to gravitate towards me,
and I don't know that it's I'm interesting. I make
stupid jokes when I'm listening to people. I I you know,
I just play on it. But I've learned that my
personality is polarizing too. Some people hate it and some
(32:21):
people are attracted to it. Yeah, it's it's like a
seventy thirty kind of split. And that's fine. Like, I
don't want to work with every single person in the world,
or in the industry for that matter. But if I
can meet with those four to ten people a year
that want to and and like we we vibe, it's
(32:42):
it feels effortless to have that working relationship great. And
so I lean into I'm going to be myself on
social media. I know that it's not going to get
a lot of clicks and whatever all the time, but
it's going to create the quality of who I want
I want to be perceived as and who I am
as a person. I don't want you to look at
(33:04):
that and think, like, oh, Josh does all these things
and you talk to me and I'm just some like
boring slock Like that's a like the typical CBA mind right, Yeah,
Like I'm fun, I'm energetic. I respond to emails within
thirty seconds, like you call me do yeah, text me.
(33:24):
I'm going to text you right back. Or from a meeting,
I'll call you right back. Like that's who I am
and that's what made me stand out. So I'm going
to show people that's how I am. They comment on
my post. A minute later you get a comment back.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, and you know it probably you know, it feels
really good to you know, be your authentic self and
have that space too, you know, be unapologetically you even
if you know three out of ten people don't like
it or you know whatever, that ratio is. Having that
freedom to be yourself and build a business on the
(33:58):
fact that you can be authentic self and help people
in that process, that's just that's the goal. That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And I will say it does take a toll
on your mental health, like those people that reject you
and control you and everything else. Like I've had to learn,
you know that trolls, betrolls and just ignore it.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I used to think, like, oh I look weak if
I'm going to let somebody walk all over me because
it's a PM. That's how it was perceived by the
field if I let the GC walk on me. But
now it's like I don't even have the energy or
the time to just go down rabbit holes with all
these trolls all this to ignore it. But it does
take a toll on me personally. I don't like to
(34:40):
be not liked. I don't like for people to point
out my flaws. And that's part of the problem. When
you put yourself out there, people will point out what
you do well, and they'll point out what you do
wrong in front of everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
What do you do to cope with? You know, that
feeling of you know, the the rejections, and you know,
especially probably when you first started out, it probably cut
a little bit deeper than it does now. But how
do you deal with that? How do you navigate that?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, I'd like to say drugs, but it's not. It's
it's they're done in from like my kids, right, or
all the things for me with life, Like I hear
my kid screaming my name and running over to me
every time I come out of my office at home.
You know, when we go feed the chickens in the morning,
like all of those things, all those moments I see
like I'm the dad that that he wants me to be,
(35:31):
and so like I want to be that for people
I work with, Like I'm the CFO. People want them
to want them want for themselves, wants for their growth
and their company. Not I'm gonna impose this box around
you and this is what's going to happen. I mean
it kind of some things have to be done a
(35:51):
certain way, but a lot of things are tailored and
I give I want to give that like BurgerKing approach
of I want to do it right for you, not
one size fits all and do volume.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Have it your way.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, but you know what that comes the cost of
I don't work with more than four people at a time.
I work with those four people and I know how
much time it takes. And it might be an eighteen
month plan. But you know, Romo, I'm built in the
day and if you want to pay me for two
of those slots, I can do it twice as fast. Yeah,
(36:29):
at the end of the day, like I'm going to
do it right, I'm going to build it up. I'm
not going to sugarcoat things. I I tell people all
the time like that's a really bad idea, I would
not do that, or hey, have you thought about this,
let's do this.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, it's that honesty that helps people move forward, and
you know, not just telling people what they want to hear.
You know, that's you know, I think something that I
don't know. I personally struggle with because I want to
be nice and be like, yeah, it's great, but no,
you have to have that honesty, that constructive criticism back
and say, you know what, you're not doing it in
(37:06):
the best way, but let's work together to find that right.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And it's all about the environment around that. Like trolls,
they can say the same thing like oh, I'm just
giving you constructive criticism, but it's like in the public
forum that's not okay because it's undermining who I am
and it's just disrespectful. But when it's me and the
owner and I can or you know, a group of
(37:31):
owners whatever principles, it's like I'm being honest with you
to help you, not to undermine you and take over
your business because the end of the day, like I'm
a partner, not a I'm not going to run your business.
I don't really cares a lot of risk and I
don't know anything about it. I just know how to
run business.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well, yeah, yes, I'm actually I'm going to ask you
one of the toughest questions you will hear today. It
is the easy but the toughest question, YEP. Or someone
who is just starting out who wants to do something
like you're doing, what advice do you have or what
(38:11):
is the best advice that you've ever been given?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
So as far as like posting on LinkedIn, like you
gained so much confidence by just doing it. When I
started a year and a half ago, I would beat
around the bush. I would like read something like eight
times and then post it and be like, oh god,
that's not good. So I'm going to take it down
all of that kind of stuff. But as I've done
(38:38):
it for a year and a half and I've had
some things not do well at all, you get like,
you know, fifty impressions. I've had some that have one
hundred and fifty thousand impressions. What I've learned is the
more you just do it, it's a skill. It's just like
a muscle. You go to the gym, you work out,
it's just the same thing. You got to just do it.
(39:00):
As far as like how you become a CFO or
anything really in that matter, anybody who's going to be
executive or leadership or whether that's project management or CEO,
don't just take the leap. I know everybody wants to
talk about like Alex Hermosi and just Burn or Tony Robbins,
(39:20):
burn the boats, just do it all these things like
that's great, that's fine, it works for some people. But
you need to understand what you're doing so you do
it so well that people want to work with you.
It took me ten years to get to this point
on my eleventh Like I'm a little bit I mean,
(39:42):
I could say it's fifteen years because I did so
much overtime to get here. But at the same time,
like it's just being around it and experiencing it, seeing
what doesn't work from different companies, seeing what does, and
then you take time to reflect and understand why did
it work, what's the purpose of it, like asking those questions.
(40:05):
I'm a how person. I remember five ten years ago,
I was like, how do I be at PM? And
I googled it. There's nothing online like nobody teaches you
how to do something, and so you have to really
look for those people in your organization that you trust,
that do it well at a high level, that everybody
(40:25):
wants to do it like them, and they don't have
the ego of I'm the best and I have to
improve everybody else's things. It's more of, hey, if you
want my advice, come ask me and I'll teach you.
But otherwise, like I'll let you feast your famine on
your own. I don't care. Those are the people that
(40:47):
I asked, like, what's the purpose of a submittal? Stupid question,
but it's very important. What's the like, how does the
business operate? How?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Something that nobody understands in the blue collar world or
the entry level position side, is how expensive a company
really is to a business. It's like one and a
half times your compensation rate because of payroll tax, because
of four h one k benefits, because of just your
(41:23):
health benefits, every single thing. So if a person makes
one hundred thousand, they really cost a company one hundred
and fifty thousand. So it's not like, oh, we just
need to go hire more people, it's I can't afford that.
Same with the how money comes in. Just because I
build something in January first, I can't or December first,
(41:45):
I can't pay a bonus if I haven't received it
till March, and then by March I might have to
pay all these other things because people quit and I
have to pay a head hundred to replace them, just
to stay in business. And I've learned the companies to
do that the best. They talk about that and teach
people business how they fit in that everything works more
(42:09):
cohesively and people are more patient with them. Yeah, really
long winded answer.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, And you know, one of the biggest things I
took from that in my own words is there is
no such thing as stupid questions. There is no such
I mean, okay, well yeah there is, but in this sense,
you know, even asking those most basic questions, I think really,
(42:34):
you know, you get that knowledge from people, you help
pass that down, and then you get to become those
role models and those leaders that you see in other
people that you want to be like. So I think
that's really really important.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, have that childlike mindset why not? How not? When? What?
It's like, why am I doing this? And maybe there's
a better way, and you know it, but you just
didn't know why you were doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, definitely awesome. Well, Josh, this was a great conversation.
Do you have anything else you want to add or
anything else to say.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm pretty open book when you ask me questions, but
when it comes to putting me open mic, I don't
really know what to say.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, that's what the guiding questions are for.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Awesome. So, if anyone in our audience wants to contact you,
wants to get in touch with you, how's the best
way to do that.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, you can DM me on LinkedIn, Josh Loveker, or
you can you can find me on YouTube if you
want to. If you're just hearing about me the first time,
learn about some of the things because I give away
so much free information and tools because I want people
to succeed and I can't help everybody. And at the
same time, like you can email me or find me
if i'd my website construction CFO dot net.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I appreciate you letting me have time to talk on here.
It's been fun.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, of course, I appreciate you coming in. And then
for all of our viewers and listeners out there, we'll
put all of those links down in the description for
you so you can find Josh easily. I mean, he's
not too hard to find, trust me, but I'll make
it a little easier for y'all. So, Josh, thank you
so much for coming on today. I can't wait to
(44:21):
chat with you next and see everything that you know
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to come back with some
case studies for you next time.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Oh, that'll be fun. That'll be a good one. We'll
figure out a way to make those fun on a podcast. Yeah, awesome. Well, everyone,
thank you so much for listening to this episode of
co opod. I'm your host, Caroline, and I'll talk to
you guys next time.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.