El siete de agosto de 2022 pasará a la historia porque ese día asumió como Presidente de la República de Colombia, Gustavo Petro Urrego, un ex guerrillero del M-19 que de la mano del movimiento político el Pacto Histórico, logró por primera vez el poder para la izquierda colombiana.
El Presidente Petro se abstuvo de dar su discurso, hasta tanto estuviera en el escenario la espada de Bolívar, la misma que el 17 de enero de 1974, hace 50 años, había sido robada por un comando del M-19, grupo guerrillero que nacía y se daba a conocer con el lema “Bolívar , tu espada vuelve a la lucha . Con el pueblo, con las armas al poder”.
El Presidente Petro se abstuvo de dar su discurso, hasta tanto estuviera en el escenario la espada de Bolívar, la misma que el 17 de enero de 1974, hace 50 años, había sido robada por un comando del M-19, grupo guerrillero que nacía y se daba a conocer con el lema “Bolívar , tu espada vuelve a la lucha . Con el pueblo, con las armas al poder”.
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What a cordial greeting friends listening tothe podcast and croniqueando with Jairo Tarazona.
On January 17, nineteen hundred andseventy- four, three men and one
woman arrived in a reindeer six tothe Quinta de Bolívar.Álvaro Fayat was
in command, who, along withthe monkey Pedro, Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
who was driving, and a Frenchwoman named Joel, had the mission of
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drawing the sword of Bolivar that restedin that museum located near Montserrate, in
the traditional town of La Candelaria.In the vicinity of La Quinta, other
armed commandos of containment were pending inthe event of any inconvenience or arrival at
the police. Carlos Sánchez, thedriver of the vehicle reports that they arrived
minutes before five in the afternoon andwith a deception, the monkey Pedro and
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Fayat entered the place that was theresidence of the liberator Simón Bolívar and reduced
to guards and the rest of thestaff. There began all the theft of
Bolivar' s sword and the birthof the 19th eMe. We invite you
to listen below in the podcast chroniclingwith Jairo Tarazona, the first episode of
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the fifty years of the robbery ofBolivar' s sword and the emergence of
the 19th eMe. Revelations by CarlosSánchez, one of the survivors and authors
of the historic assault. As Presidentof Colombia, I request the Military House
to bring Bolivar' s sword.On August 7, two thousand twenty-
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two will pass the story, becausethat day he assumed as President of the
Republic of Colombia. Gustavo Petro Urrego, an EM 19 guerrilla who, by
the hand of the political movement ofthe historic pact, first achieved power for
the Colombian left. President Petro refrainedfrom giving his albums until the Bolívar sword
was on the stage, the sameas on January 17, nineteen seventy-
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four, fifty years ago had beenstolen by a commando of the nineteen guerrilla
group EM that was born and madeknown with the motto Bolivar. Your sword
returns to the struggle with the people, with the weapons to power, a
spectacular action that not only aimed foran advertising end, but also the symbolism
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that implied seizing the sword, whichwould only be back when they conquered the
power. By means of armed struggle, which they did not achieve with the
bullets, but with the votes.Forty- eight years later, in the
polls along the democratic path, twoof the founders of the 19th century came
from the ranks of the ASFAR,of which Jaime Bateman and Luis Oteros and
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sources ceased, who initially created arebel group called Comuneros, and who since
then had the idea of removing thesword of the liberator resting in the Quinta
de San Pedro de Bolívar, locatedon the slopes of Cerro de Monserrate,
in eastern Bogotá. In October ofone thousand nine hundred and seventy- three,
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Comunero dissolves to give way to them nineteen, which was born with
the incursion to the Museum of theQuinta de Bolívar and that previously in newspaper
advertisements had started a campaign of expectationwith eye- catching warnings worms wait m
nineteen was one of the tires messages. Many thought it was a medicine against
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the worms of children and large.On January 17, nineteen hundred and seventy
- four, four members of theNineteenth EM arrived in the sixth Renoch until
the Quinta de Bolívar. Previously,a few weeks earlier. Two groups,
in which were the Monavera Grave andthe Black María Eugenia Vázquez, had been
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on several occasions in the Fifth doingintelligence work, to know the routine of
the vigilantes and the personnel who workedthere. Carlos Sánchez Méndez says that they
arrived when they were going to closethe museum a few minutes before five o
' clock in the afternoon with ahoax the monkey, Pedro and Fayat managed
to get the tickets sold to them. There began all the theft of the
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sword and the birth of the 19theMe. We are with Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
protagonist of the robbery of the Swordof Bolivar, one of the survivors
and authors of this historic assault fiftyyears ago. It didn' t all
start in a core that we hadthe first core, let' s say
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and we organized, no, notin all the emes a group, there
we were close. Finally that groupremained five and that was the core that
was in charge of the sword,because in it Jim daynman militated, i
e I wanted military in that group. I don' t know why.
In addition, we have known eachother for many years and had been imprisoned
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because we protested in the campin againstthe death of thirteen Panamanian students who lowered
the gringo flag. They burned herand the green berets came out and killed
them. Then we made a protest, and Jaime Bayman organized it. It
was juicy, I wasn' t, I was the youth of the MRL.
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And one of those was to enterthe camp with a flag of Panama
in an international and children' sgame, a children' s world championship
that even he was winning Colombia.We did a meeting, I mean,
we took him around the campin andthere he went into the police and picked
him out. Then we took onemore turn with the flag and gave ourselves
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to us did not stop like them, because they were of age. Not
me. I was seventeen and eighteen, maybe Bainmanzi. He took me five
years, not six years, andten years later, with Jaime we did
the sword thing. I think that' s also why he sought me out
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to be with people he knew moreor less. So, he was the
one who organized the m ilan.It' s the one that says we
' re going to take the scentout of olive groves. Yeah, that
' s not the idea very well. The idea was of the wrestler when
we were in school, because weall studied at the same school, Jaime,
not because Jaimer the manager of thejuco of that school and I was
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in charge of the auco of managingthe, the MRL the youth. One
day we were on a bus tothe house. We' re off the
hook. It has a very longjourney inside the same free to get out
to catch the buses. Then onthat journey I found myself struggling already on
the bus and said no, brotherme. What I think is a wonderful
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action is taking Bolivar Mano' shand. If you have her there in
the fifth exhibition, I thought theproposal was very interesting, and I think
the farts did not want it.And already with the m there was a
transition, because the em was notgoing to be called m nineteen and then,
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root of the closeness of the peoplewho were in Anapo, who were
left mind, we put movement nineteenApril. That name he made up.
It wasÁlvaro' s failure andbefore our action they had made two shots
at the sword. They' dalready made the trip twice and couldn'
t take her away. The firsttime the time and the day were mischosen.
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So there was a lot, alot of tourist, so they left,
they canceled the pod. No grouphad, not the same group,
the same em but with another group. Yeah, I think it was red
herman raulito boy. The first timethe tourists ran him out and the second
time the dogs, because they startedbarking a lot of dogs and it was
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unbearable. Then they said no andalso lifted the operative. They did not
and ours did work in one strokeseventeen January in a thousand nine hundred and
seventy- four. And how theyplan to do it. Well, as
I used to do Batman at thesame core, we' ll see each
other every time, because we didmeetings once or twice or three times a
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week, whatever it took. Therewere five of us in that group and
four of us participated in that group, because Ernesto Zendoya' s wife,
who kept the sword, is French. So did all four of us on
the eve. We started by puttingup some banners, doing some graffiti and
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papers that we were carrying today fromnineteen, we were just like one in
the morning or two, maybe doingthat the day before. The next day
the ad appeared on the front pageof the newspapers. That was a key
to saying that that was the daywe took them to be in the operation
to people who were not close tothis group. Let' s say people
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who were in containments or in thisalready they knew that when the sheath came
out on the first page they hadto appear better said and so it was.
That didn' t have any problems, because we got there about 5
00. I picked up the other partner who came in withÁlvaro on
the fifth. He blew himself offwork, we picked him up we went,
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I got there and I said itthere they didn' t want to
sell him the ticket because it wastoo late. They were going to close,
they were going to close in aboutten minutes, and this one was
wearing a Mexican tsarape.Álvaro Isay look I come from Mexico and I
' m doing a study on Bolivar. I' ve seen where he needs
what he needs. The book isopen just what I want. I go,
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I take a picture and I goout, but sell me the ballot.
He sold him the two ballots andhe broke in and he never came
out again. I mean, Idon' t know what would happen inside,
because I didn' t go inÁlvaro. I was waiting for her
that the other one who came inwas, then, taking the people from
the fifth to a bathroom or someroom, where they were put in all
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the administrative and all the people putin. Yesterday in that room I was
a little long waiting for what hadto be done. And that' s
why I didn' t have theadministratives. They took a while to get
them there. You were waiting outsidein charge, in the cart in is
a reindeer who renewed a kingdomj sixand there you were with who joel with
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the French. The other two camein to attack them yes and we,
who were out unarmed more and moreevery time he gave leme that, as
we were starting out. We didn' t have any weapons, we took
some weapons. I was never anoperative. That' s why I wasn
' t operational. I wasn't a RRILLE, I wasn' t
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a military, I was a politician. Then you operative fool. Yeah,
I did get a long wait.And it was that they were, then,
handling the administrative people, keeping allthat sheath and ensuring that they didn
' t unplug phones, surely andall that. And then they made a
sign to me and I picked itup and I turned off the car I
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was waiting for, because when Icame to the door to pick it up,
they would come down and like halfof that long journey that has the
fifth, as in half they wouldcome and I started looking there and I
sure got my foot out of thecloshis, my car went out because I
hadn' t put it in neutral. Then then I tried to turn it
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on and it didn' t hitme and some guys came in there,
like six high- fiber guys,like basketball players or something, but they
were supposed to be military, theymust be cops. They were passing by.
He told me what happened to him. I told him I was there
and I didn' t turn itoff and don' t turn it on.
Ayudo told me, he gave meneutral. I put it in neutral.
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Don' t do anything to her. Take off the foot I took
off the foot made rune and setand tore off. Thank you. Until
then I went and went down tothe other partner where I had picked him
up, because as he blew himselfout of work, he had to get
to mark cards to get out.But he wanted to go and do the
sheath to him. Then we leaveit there. I continued again to the
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Fifth, to the Fifth race,which was double day in that low period,
failed as to the height of SaintBartholomew. Over there and I got
back to 26 o' clock.I went to Ernesto' s house,
since I lived there in Quinta.It was a street that had side-
by- side buildings one of thelook and it was down there and it
had no way out. Then Icame down he came down with the sword
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left. That' s what youtell us after you' ve already drawn
the sword. Of course you pickthem up at the entrance and then they
leave with the sword there in thesane. I left the boy to mark
a card and went to the Quintato go near Ernesto, but I went
by, I mean, I wentto San Bartolomé, maybe I did and
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I told him to walk all theway to the fifth, brother that I
picked him up and started walking theguy and I went with meel we saw
where I erred. She dropped thetsarape because Fallat took it off and wrapped
the sword and left it there inthe car and what it was bagged in
the Zarape, which is like aMexican ruana. In the ruana they wrap
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the sword, train the cart andstart. So it was when he got
down fa there falaa Bat took offthe ruana, wrapped it up and said
there left them the sword came downthere in the fifth I turned myself,
he took the sword, got downentered where erneso and I heard him open
and come in. And all that, signa Chao, that' s where
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they were initially the sword. Yeah, there he tolerates what neighborhood it was,
that' s in the fifth withtwenty- six ay fence a few
blocks from the fifth, that isto say there was the first seat of
the sword. Yeah, and howmany minutes later or when it' s
already known about the robbery. Iwent there and picked it up where I
had picked it up, which wasin the seat. I don' t
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know what col I don' tremember if it was a fifth or a
seventh, a neighborhood that was barelybeing born and there was already a petrol
bomb. I picked him up inthat bomb and in that same bomb I
left the car I gave him thefa key there, I took a bus
and went to my house, buton the bus no longer required at that
time it was on the burglary alarm. Of course, then they stole us.
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They took us off the bus andeverything and I told them what happened,
because I said it wasn' tthat the fifth Bolivar was robbed and
some pods were stolen there. Idon' t know that the cop didn
' t know well I gave himthat Bolivar said he was there or not
or that famed legal I and thereI realized. Supposedly, we can say
that that day, the seventeen-nero of a thousand nine hundred and seventy
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- four, is the official birthof M. Nineteen the audience. Or
yes, yes, that is thebirth of M. That' s where
the story begins, because yes,well, it had started when we prepared
everything to be able to operate,that is, getting mimiographers, publishing teams,
weapons, everything we needed to operatecars and silver gives a lot of
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money for that. And that's where it starts, so Bolivar'
s is going to pass from handto hand, in Paris. Not so
much there. That was like amonth before the other day we went to
see her with Jaime, with Maymanand everything and we saw her I was
going to take a picture of thissheath and we had to take a picture
of her. Well chévere to accompanythe publication of the chest, because it
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came back about the two days thatthere was the photo and we hadn'
t done it, we hadn't spent it there screwing with ernesto and
we hadn' t done it.Then he didn' t get curious.
Oh, he gave me, I' d seen him, bravo, and
that day if he was upset andI swear to you, I' ve
got him by the first hour tomorrow. That' s how he wants eight
of the morning to be given tohim, I told him and we went
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we bought a map of Latin America, in Danarambo and there we were a
map that we arrived, we putleftover of the cartons that we carried to
stick on the wall had left usand erresto and I say there we got
nothing wrong. We put that sheathon it and we put it on the
bottom of it and he took amachine gun that Bainman had brought us for
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that, for the photo and Itook the picture. I went to the
thread and in the thread lab Irebelled the copy I made several copies and
burned the negatives and took the copies. Oh, that' s a line
I want. He took them all, I mean, they' re really
good. I don' t knowwhat. I see what we catch and
say the me, but I followedthem there. We were leaving a reasonable
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time to turn off the sheath andthe news and boom of the thing to
go, so we could move it. And so it was. Then it
was called ar Gemiro Plaza Yareemiro isa chess player. Then he was very
close to Boris de Greve, metoo, but that was another origin in
the friendship go Boris was more ofa family of the bass. With my
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family. They were my brother's companions, my two brothers were going
to have lunch at the house Sometimesthey got there and all Leon was very
dear to my sister and to us. He was a very kind guy.
The old man as a lion,he had that mess too. Then he
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lived in a chaotic disorder. Thebooks kept them on the floor, they
threw them out, so I knewwhere I had them, but in a
bookhouse, on the cabbage floor,then put a sword in any sheath.
That was not noticeable from the amountof pods where the poet León de Grey
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lived, in the Santa Fe neighborhood. There, after the sword is in
Ernesto' s house using already passesto the house of the poet León is
Zendoya Zendoya, Boris de Grege Itis the son of Leondrido de León was
for him also died the master ofadres, international master, a very famous
guy. And why Jaime Beynman decidesto keep the sword there. Well,
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because somehow, León de Graves isas iconic as the sword, or let
' s say he' s alsoa character and that in the guard,
because he was very interesting too,but it was also because, because they
were above the good and the mare, it was very difficult for them to
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be put in prison, to listento torture. Now they did suspect them
because a moment came to me theyhad me very, very close. One
night I went to Moris as badas my brother, I came to hide
them from me because it was quiet. Come boom and we started drinking wine
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and talking and I stayed there.I hid there. I knew the sword
had a lion, but Boris didnot know that I had taken him out
and knew nothing about the story.One night he told me, he gave
me an adhesion computer and told meto practice because tomorrow he threw him a
game Half a day when he comesto lunch read ready and Boris didn'
t arrive. No, no,no, no, no, no,
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no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no Came in the evening with aclub party, day of adre from
Denmark, Federation of Aderez, somethinga lot of guys came in and with
girls. There' s the ladiesof the guys. I hid I went
into the room of the service,which was where I was sleeping. Ton
came to Bori, I knew brother. That' s where I double-
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winned the Wlevon game because she's gonna wake up at lunch. He
told me he doesn' t knowwhere. I had lunch at the Hulevon
Brigade I was caught here at thedoor. When he went out for breakfast,
they grabbed him. I know thatif we were brought up young to
both of us and there the liganzowouldn' t have been any different.
He already took him away and questionedhim all day, very cordial, very
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then we had the party. Hewas carrying people to get me out.
From there, and about 2: 00 in the morning, the guys went (20:17):
undefined
out for coffee and let' sgo. I grabbed my pods and threw
them out. Boris did not livewith lions and the spast where lion and
sword were hidden, so that ifthey came to look for her, they
could not find her. No,if they' d searched, they'
(20:38):
d find her. I wasn't wrapped up in some sort of roll
of something and put it on topof a dresser and nothing else, it
wasn' t stored. And notall wrapped up in something like that,
in a roll of paper or something. As a result of everything that'
s going on, then you sayI' m leaving the country and I
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have to go if that' swhere I was ordered to get lost.
I had marginalized myself. The lemenwasn' t militating for long. I
was outcast. When the chase started. Baitman told me to tell him he
told me to tell him to goaway, he can' t eat it.
He was very afraid that they wouldtake the sword. You know,
I bought a ticket, I tooka plane and went to Ecuador. In
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other words, I went to pasture, because he saw a grass, he
had people and he helped me andeverything was very dear people who were not
of the em Also, then therewas a companion, a very important pasture.
Ademans was him and he had meall ready to take me out for
Ecuador. And that morning he calledmy brother and gave him to tell him
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not to come back, so becausehere the weather is I don' t
know how and told him it wasthat they were waiting for me there at
the airport, but I was alreadygone if he helps on the plane.
When that call and the plane couldnot land for bad weather and went back
to Kali and mouthed again on July11, nineteen hundred and seventy- six
died the Master Lion of Grave Yesand Bayman or Bateman, as we know
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him, He gives the command thatthe sword take her to his house,
where he was also with Batman.We tell him the ones we met many
years ago. The rest we callBateman Batman, because one day a journalist
read Beyman, not Wateman. Helikes to be called Baeitman, but I
like to be called Bateman. Thesword is then moved where some friends of
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Bateman, who is Valentina saen ifelvira ortiz, that is, begins to
spin. Batman starts moving her aroundin different places, because the detectives were
already following the traces of the sword. Yes, also had Teresita Gómez dians
A, the pianist the best pianistof this payo who is still alive continent.
I mean, she had it fora while. I think he kept
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it there on the bench where hesat to touch, but he was aware
that it was Bolivar' s swordor they just told him to keep us.
This. No. No, no, no, that wasn' t
what we were doing and delivering something. We said these are weapons and keep
them. Custody. Really yes,never, because it was like the type
of tromp can put us before weknow what they were guarding. And precisely,
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Teresita Gómez was one of the artistsinvited to play in the possession of
President Gustavo Petro. August seven,two thousand twenty- two. He played
this melody of Julio Jaramillo towards Calvary. They also say that the sword was
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for a time abandoned in a laneand then buried in a farm in Albana,
in Cundinamarca. Yeah, I thinkhe did. I don' t
remember well. It was if GaimeEsmeralda' s wife, maybe someone had
it. Yeah, she was carryingit in the trunk of the car.
There comes another historical fact or inthe 19th EMS that in the seizure of
the Dominican embassy and there it issaid that the sword then in that fact
(24:07):
is delivered to an ambassador of Cuba. The ambassador of Cuba was created as
the order of guardians of the Sword, who were elected twelve people in common,
but who also had other well-known ones, such as Fiel Castro,
Marto Rijos, the mothers of thePlaza de Mayo, José Figueres,
Ferrero, Monseñerón, Sergio Méndez,Eduardo galeano until Mario Benedetti, who were
(24:27):
like depositaries who trusted so that theywould keep the sword. Yeah, I
' m sure it is. AntonioNavarro Wolf, one of the founders of
the 19th century, remembers how thetransfer of Bolivar' s sword was.
Yeah, well, some fellows gotinto Bolivar' s racito. I'
m tied up. Jaime Bateleban consideredyou to be the best to kick her
(24:51):
out of the padís, he pickedthem up and, I repeat, asked
the Cubans. They kept it foryou, took it and threw or lowered
you from Panama. They forgot andtook her to Juba. When they saw
the invasion not being meditated, Panamawas on the sword. That' s
when I gave you up It wasprefinitely getting into the diplomatic validity, and
the sword finally started on the bade. In January of one thousand nine hundred
(25:11):
and ninety- one, following thepeace accords and the laying down of arms.
The 19th edition asks for the BolivarSword, which was in Cúcuta and
is initially received in Venezuela. Mariobrought her from Boba and there in Venezuela
and we were after two Andrés Pérezand Abril already called you from other side
people and I then in a protocolact on January thirty- one, nine
(25:33):
hundred and ninety- one, thesword is back by Antonio Navarro Wolf,
to the same place where our interlocutorCarlos Sánchez Méndez, protagonist of the robbery
of the Sword of Bolivar, oneof the survivors and authors of this historic
assault on the Quinta de Bolívar,was extracted. Fifty years ago he was
named one of the depositaries of thesword. A little while ago they gave
(25:57):
me a dip the plume, theSword Guardian. It was given to me
by the comrades who entered even laterby founders. I don' t know
how many we' ll give,how many initial founders they were. I
don' t know. I thinkabout twenty later that grew up and with
the NAPO. If the NAPO thinggrew, it was fundamental. That was
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one of the successes the em hadwas the alliance with ARAPO. Petro is
a product of the m At firsthe did not want to accept it because
he thought it took away votes andwhen he discovered that it gave him votes,
then he again recognized the sheath andhe entered after that time he is
(26:41):
already a member of the half nineteenGustavo Petro, which he began in Zipakirado,
where he lived. He was oneof the activists in the Zipaquiras and
there he was to see bustamante whowas founder of the em Amas. After
Patracio and left for the right,the arepa was turned and they built the
Simón Bolivar neighborhood in Zipaquira. Itis a neighborhood built by the m with
(27:02):
the people who live in the neighborhood. Gustavo Petro was not a guerrilla either.
Let' s say he wasn't military, no, he wasn
' t military. He was apolitician, more activist, ideologist, his
work in Zipaquira and putting him intosomething else could hurt him from work,
so he didn' t do that. He was there. That was his
(27:22):
political work. He was very young. I also believe when the sword was
almost a child. I think andthen it' s just that he'
s been a very smart guy.I mean, I' m terrified,
because to get there, you haveto be very smart, because all the
sticks on the wheel that got youand you couldn' t stop anything.
(27:44):
This sword has so much history thattoday will add one more to why it
took so long. Tar arrived atthis square. Obviously, on August 7,
the two thousand twenty- two possessionwhere Gustavo Petro also marks a milestone
in the history of the sword,because it is the symbol of the M
nineteen, the Sword of Bolivar,when President Ordena must bring the sword,
(28:08):
that is, we fought and achieveda goal that was not for weapons.
With the weapons to power it wasone of the mottos of the 19th EM.
They could never take power for guns. They take it democratically. And
that day, when President Petro ordersto bring the sword, he did what
the 19th wanted to be in powerdemocratically now and the symbol the olive spa.
(28:32):
Yes, I did, I feltthat we were reaching the end,
because the ultimate goal, the strategicgoal, but not yet because we have
the Government and the Government is notthe power. Look at all the problems
they put on Petro using the powerthey have, is that they have it
(28:55):
two hundred years ago. We cannotexpect a democratic revolution like this that is
wanting or wanting to do, tobe released in this way, is a
revolution that is made in the conscience, not by arms, not by defeat,
but by reflection, by conscience.It' s a change of consciousness
(29:15):
and it' s very difficult.There is a paradox between the Fundación del
em nineteen of what we are talkingabout the fifty years of the extraction of
Bolivar' s sword and what iscoming now, because the m nineteen is
born into the peace process. Putdown the guns. In a thousand nine
hundred and ninety. We still seethe flags of the 19th Lem, of
(29:37):
people who are still militants of aparty that does not exist, but who
have achieved power. That Lem nineteenmade some mistakes that also led to his
disappearance, the murder of José raquelMercado, the seizure of the Palace of
Justices, errors that, in away, helped to blur that image of
the 19th and his disappearance. I' m not really sure about that.
(29:57):
You know why this country can standany sheath. But if it was a
mistake, if it was mistakes,it is obvious. I don' t
agree very much with the market.It seems to me that they opened a
left guerrilla by shooting a poor blackworker. That doesn' t have a
presentation. That confuses and that wasmy debate, but they put him to
(30:19):
the vote and won those who wantedto shoot him and shot him. And
that was a mistake. And theseizure of the Palace of Justice was also
a mistake. But I also sawa trap. That was induced by the
military. They knew there was goingto be that shot and they did everything
to make it happen. And wecan say that there is practically the end
(30:41):
of the 19th M. As such. I believe that the 19th M has
not had an end and people believein MS. People want it. I
believe that Petro is where he isalso for the 19- year- old
EM, not just for Petro's sake Petro has all the merits and
he' s the very smart guy. What will happen with the sword of
Bolivar when Gustavo Petro finishes his mandate, that sword that is there in the
(31:06):
house of Nariño, that accompanies him, which can happen after the end of
that mandate, on August 7 ofthe two thousand twenty- six. I
don' t think it' sgonna happen much, but it depends on
who happens to Petro. If it' s the right, I think it
pays them, they burn it,it doesn' t melt it, no,
there' s nothing. But ifit' s someone from the historic
(31:26):
pact, I think there' sno problem with that. That' s
a problem you should have taken intoaccount. This is when peace was discussed
with the Government. We must haveasked for a sword for us, but
it was very difficult. It wasalso like putting obstacles there to the lucidity
that dialogue required. What you meanis that when it is filmed, it
(31:47):
passes there in the cape in Marchof nine hundred and ninety, the m
nineteen must have asked the sword ofBolivar to have worn it as one of
the symbols. Of course, ofcourse, it was a symbol that we
owe ourselves and had been able todo. Inclus there are colleagues who have
projects. Well, we can't say goodbye to Don Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
(32:07):
one of the survivors of the 19themedia that worked Bolivar' s sword
of the fifth here in Bogotá.Without talking a bit about you as one
of the most important film photographers Colombiahas ever had. Brother of that great
director of cinema, also Pepe Sánchez, you were also a filmmaker and participated
(32:28):
in many Colombian series, in manyfilms that remain of all that, that
remains of television series like Don ChincheRomeo and Buceta, the inn that you
also made as productions like the peopleof the Universal, Colombia and Dreams and
many other documentaries Colombian drem the peopleof the universal. There is another one
called three scapulars that did not havea commercial diffusion. It is rather cinema
(32:52):
art is like the position of someoneand in front of peace, in front
of war. Rather, the photographscame to my family before I supported my
family and all my brothers, whoall learned photography. Not my sister,
but my two brothers, Miguel andPepe, if they learned, were good
photographers. My dad had a studiodowntown and he had a lab in the
(33:15):
house when I was about six yearsold, and then he would take me
and sit there in a high butacoand sink copies into the fixer. He
would reveal them, vote the guarantorand I with a stick one day copy
and he was teaching me. Iwas learning, I started doing photography and
(33:37):
at that time there was a boomin Latin American political cinema and then we
made a political film group here.Pepe Sánchez, your brother, knew that
you were in the middle nineteen,that you had participated in the events of
the extraction of the Estada de Bolívarin the fifth. The only one in
the family I knew was Pepe.My family didn' t know. Later,
Pepe knew if he knew he thoughtvery much but God is she waiting
(34:00):
to see if he came or becausehe was the sheath, he kept the
secret. He was in trouble becauseof that. Pepe Sanchez never chased him.
No, no, he had troublewith a documentary he made about the
fares when it wasn' t thefargas. It was the peasant movement,
the small river bombing, so Italywas a year earlier and the following year
(34:21):
bombarding a Chichi River and Pepe wasthere filming with two Frenchmen who had sent
me, Joori Sevens Yorisivellseyra, avery important documentaryist who documents all the wars.
He was in Vietnam, he wason the sides, in Cambodia,
of those short films we watch inblack and white when Mariylan Dances was going.
(34:43):
Many of those may be the onesthat were recorded at that time.
There wasn' t much film.There is no shooting interview Piu, where
the milk guy also Vainas to thebourgeois press. Later, when he'
s already beginning to be the greatdirector, the great actor. He never
had a problem, no, never. Never. No, he never had
(35:04):
a problem. No. I'm not doing it anymore. But to
my dad if they bothered him alittle bit they would go to his photograph
and ask Vainas and Don Carlos.Thank you very much, very kind for
telling us so much about this story, about your personal life as well but
what has been that meaning of Bolivar' s sword. Fifty years later.
(35:24):
Yeah, thank you so much forthe interview. I also hope it will
be useful.
What a cordial greeting friends listening tothe podcast and croniqueando with Jairo Tarazona.
On January 17, nineteen hundred andseventy- four, three men and one
woman arrived in a reindeer six tothe Quinta de Bolívar.Álvaro Fayat was
in command, who, along withthe monkey Pedro, Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
who was driving, and a Frenchwoman named Joel, had the mission of
(00:23):
drawing the sword of Bolivar that restedin that museum located near Montserrate, in
the traditional town of La Candelaria.In the vicinity of La Quinta, other
armed commandos of containment were pending inthe event of any inconvenience or arrival at
the police. Carlos Sánchez, thedriver of the vehicle reports that they arrived
minutes before five in the afternoon andwith a deception, the monkey Pedro and
(00:46):
Fayat entered the place that was theresidence of the liberator Simón Bolívar and reduced
to guards and the rest of thestaff. There began all the theft of
Bolivar' s sword and the birthof the 19th eMe. We invite you
to listen below in the podcast chroniclingwith Jairo Tarazona, the first episode of
(01:07):
the fifty years of the robbery ofBolivar' s sword and the emergence of
the 19th eMe. Revelations by CarlosSánchez, one of the survivors and authors
of the historic assault. As Presidentof Colombia, I request the Military House
to bring Bolivar' s sword.On August 7, two thousand twenty-
(01:41):
two will pass the story, becausethat day he assumed as President of the
Republic of Colombia. Gustavo Petro Urrego, an EM 19 guerrilla who, by
the hand of the political movement ofthe historic pact, first achieved power for
the Colombian left. President Petro refrainedfrom giving his albums until the Bolívar sword
was on the stage, the sameas on January 17, nineteen seventy-
(02:05):
four, fifty years ago had beenstolen by a commando of the nineteen guerrilla
group EM that was born and madeknown with the motto Bolivar. Your sword
returns to the struggle with the people, with the weapons to power, a
spectacular action that not only aimed foran advertising end, but also the symbolism
(02:30):
that implied seizing the sword, whichwould only be back when they conquered the
power. By means of armed struggle, which they did not achieve with the
bullets, but with the votes.Forty- eight years later, in the
polls along the democratic path, twoof the founders of the 19th century came
from the ranks of the ASFAR,of which Jaime Bateman and Luis Oteros and
(02:54):
sources ceased, who initially created arebel group called Comuneros, and who since
then had the idea of removing thesword of the liberator resting in the Quinta
de San Pedro de Bolívar, locatedon the slopes of Cerro de Monserrate,
in eastern Bogotá. In October ofone thousand nine hundred and seventy- three,
(03:15):
Comunero dissolves to give way to them nineteen, which was born with
the incursion to the Museum of theQuinta de Bolívar and that previously in newspaper
advertisements had started a campaign of expectationwith eye- catching warnings worms wait m
nineteen was one of the tires messages. Many thought it was a medicine against
(03:38):
the worms of children and large.On January 17, nineteen hundred and seventy
- four, four members of theNineteenth EM arrived in the sixth Renoch until
the Quinta de Bolívar. Previously,a few weeks earlier. Two groups,
in which were the Monavera Grave andthe Black María Eugenia Vázquez, had been
(03:58):
on several occasions in the Fifth doingintelligence work, to know the routine of
the vigilantes and the personnel who workedthere. Carlos Sánchez Méndez says that they
arrived when they were going to closethe museum a few minutes before five o
' clock in the afternoon with ahoax the monkey, Pedro and Fayat managed
to get the tickets sold to them. There began all the theft of the
(04:19):
sword and the birth of the 19theMe. We are with Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
protagonist of the robbery of the Swordof Bolivar, one of the survivors
and authors of this historic assault fiftyyears ago. It didn' t all
start in a core that we hadthe first core, let' s say
(04:40):
and we organized, no, notin all the emes a group, there
we were close. Finally that groupremained five and that was the core that
was in charge of the sword,because in it Jim daynman militated, i
e I wanted military in that group. I don' t know why.
In addition, we have known eachother for many years and had been imprisoned
(05:01):
because we protested in the campin againstthe death of thirteen Panamanian students who lowered
the gringo flag. They burned herand the green berets came out and killed
them. Then we made a protest, and Jaime Bayman organized it. It
was juicy, I wasn' t, I was the youth of the MRL.
(05:24):
And one of those was to enterthe camp with a flag of Panama
in an international and children' sgame, a children' s world championship
that even he was winning Colombia.We did a meeting, I mean,
we took him around the campin andthere he went into the police and picked
him out. Then we took onemore turn with the flag and gave ourselves
(05:46):
to us did not stop like them, because they were of age. Not
me. I was seventeen and eighteen, maybe Bainmanzi. He took me five
years, not six years, andten years later, with Jaime we did
the sword thing. I think that' s also why he sought me out
(06:09):
to be with people he knew moreor less. So, he was the
one who organized the m ilan.It' s the one that says we
' re going to take the scentout of olive groves. Yeah, that
' s not the idea very well. The idea was of the wrestler when
we were in school, because weall studied at the same school, Jaime,
not because Jaimer the manager of thejuco of that school and I was
(06:31):
in charge of the auco of managingthe, the MRL the youth. One
day we were on a bus tothe house. We' re off the
hook. It has a very longjourney inside the same free to get out
to catch the buses. Then onthat journey I found myself struggling already on
the bus and said no, brotherme. What I think is a wonderful
(06:54):
action is taking Bolivar Mano' shand. If you have her there in
the fifth exhibition, I thought theproposal was very interesting, and I think
the farts did not want it.And already with the m there was a
transition, because the em was notgoing to be called m nineteen and then,
(07:15):
root of the closeness of the peoplewho were in Anapo, who were
left mind, we put movement nineteenApril. That name he made up.
It wasÁlvaro' s failure andbefore our action they had made two shots
at the sword. They' dalready made the trip twice and couldn'
t take her away. The firsttime the time and the day were mischosen.
(07:39):
So there was a lot, alot of tourist, so they left,
they canceled the pod. No grouphad, not the same group,
the same em but with another group. Yeah, I think it was red
herman raulito boy. The first timethe tourists ran him out and the second
time the dogs, because they startedbarking a lot of dogs and it was
(08:03):
unbearable. Then they said no andalso lifted the operative. They did not
and ours did work in one strokeseventeen January in a thousand nine hundred and
seventy- four. And how theyplan to do it. Well, as
I used to do Batman at thesame core, we' ll see each
other every time, because we didmeetings once or twice or three times a
(08:26):
week, whatever it took. Therewere five of us in that group and
four of us participated in that group, because Ernesto Zendoya' s wife,
who kept the sword, is French. So did all four of us on
the eve. We started by puttingup some banners, doing some graffiti and
(08:48):
papers that we were carrying today fromnineteen, we were just like one in
the morning or two, maybe doingthat the day before. The next day
the ad appeared on the front pageof the newspapers. That was a key
to saying that that was the daywe took them to be in the operation
to people who were not close tothis group. Let' s say people
(09:11):
who were in containments or in thisalready they knew that when the sheath came
out on the first page they hadto appear better said and so it was.
That didn' t have any problems, because we got there about 5
00. I picked up the other partner who came in withÁlvaro on
the fifth. He blew himself offwork, we picked him up we went,
(09:33):
I got there and I said itthere they didn' t want to
sell him the ticket because it wastoo late. They were going to close,
they were going to close in aboutten minutes, and this one was
wearing a Mexican tsarape.Álvaro Isay look I come from Mexico and I
' m doing a study on Bolivar. I' ve seen where he needs
what he needs. The book isopen just what I want. I go,
(09:56):
I take a picture and I goout, but sell me the ballot.
He sold him the two ballots andhe broke in and he never came
out again. I mean, Idon' t know what would happen inside,
because I didn' t go inÁlvaro. I was waiting for her
that the other one who came inwas, then, taking the people from
the fifth to a bathroom or someroom, where they were put in all
(10:18):
the administrative and all the people putin. Yesterday in that room I was
a little long waiting for what hadto be done. And that' s
why I didn' t have theadministratives. They took a while to get
them there. You were waiting outsidein charge, in the cart in is
a reindeer who renewed a kingdomj sixand there you were with who joel with
(10:39):
the French. The other two camein to attack them yes and we,
who were out unarmed more and moreevery time he gave leme that, as
we were starting out. We didn' t have any weapons, we took
some weapons. I was never anoperative. That' s why I wasn
' t operational. I wasn't a RRILLE, I wasn' t
(11:01):
a military, I was a politician. Then you operative fool. Yeah,
I did get a long wait.And it was that they were, then,
handling the administrative people, keeping allthat sheath and ensuring that they didn
' t unplug phones, surely andall that. And then they made a
sign to me and I picked itup and I turned off the car I
(11:24):
was waiting for, because when Icame to the door to pick it up,
they would come down and like halfof that long journey that has the
fifth, as in half they wouldcome and I started looking there and I
sure got my foot out of thecloshis, my car went out because I
hadn' t put it in neutral. Then then I tried to turn it
(11:46):
on and it didn' t hitme and some guys came in there,
like six high- fiber guys,like basketball players or something, but they
were supposed to be military, theymust be cops. They were passing by.
He told me what happened to him. I told him I was there
and I didn' t turn itoff and don' t turn it on.
Ayudo told me, he gave meneutral. I put it in neutral.
(12:07):
Don' t do anything to her. Take off the foot I took
off the foot made rune and setand tore off. Thank you. Until
then I went and went down tothe other partner where I had picked him
up, because as he blew himselfout of work, he had to get
to mark cards to get out.But he wanted to go and do the
sheath to him. Then we leaveit there. I continued again to the
(12:28):
Fifth, to the Fifth race,which was double day in that low period,
failed as to the height of SaintBartholomew. Over there and I got
back to 26 o' clock.I went to Ernesto' s house,
since I lived there in Quinta.It was a street that had side-
by- side buildings one of thelook and it was down there and it
had no way out. Then Icame down he came down with the sword
(12:52):
left. That' s what youtell us after you' ve already drawn
the sword. Of course you pickthem up at the entrance and then they
leave with the sword there in thesane. I left the boy to mark
a card and went to the Quintato go near Ernesto, but I went
by, I mean, I wentto San Bartolomé, maybe I did and
(13:13):
I told him to walk all theway to the fifth, brother that I
picked him up and started walking theguy and I went with meel we saw
where I erred. She dropped thetsarape because Fallat took it off and wrapped
the sword and left it there inthe car and what it was bagged in
the Zarape, which is like aMexican ruana. In the ruana they wrap
(13:35):
the sword, train the cart andstart. So it was when he got
down fa there falaa Bat took offthe ruana, wrapped it up and said
there left them the sword came downthere in the fifth I turned myself,
he took the sword, got downentered where erneso and I heard him open
and come in. And all that, signa Chao, that' s where
(13:56):
they were initially the sword. Yeah, there he tolerates what neighborhood it was,
that' s in the fifth withtwenty- six ay fence a few
blocks from the fifth, that isto say there was the first seat of
the sword. Yeah, and howmany minutes later or when it' s
already known about the robbery. Iwent there and picked it up where I
had picked it up, which wasin the seat. I don' t
(14:18):
know what col I don' tremember if it was a fifth or a
seventh, a neighborhood that was barelybeing born and there was already a petrol
bomb. I picked him up inthat bomb and in that same bomb I
left the car I gave him thefa key there, I took a bus
and went to my house, buton the bus no longer required at that
time it was on the burglary alarm. Of course, then they stole us.
(14:41):
They took us off the bus andeverything and I told them what happened,
because I said it wasn' tthat the fifth Bolivar was robbed and
some pods were stolen there. Idon' t know that the cop didn
' t know well I gave himthat Bolivar said he was there or not
or that famed legal I and thereI realized. Supposedly, we can say
that that day, the seventeen-nero of a thousand nine hundred and seventy
(15:05):
- four, is the official birthof M. Nineteen the audience. Or
yes, yes, that is thebirth of M. That' s where
the story begins, because yes,well, it had started when we prepared
everything to be able to operate,that is, getting mimiographers, publishing teams,
weapons, everything we needed to operatecars and silver gives a lot of
(15:28):
money for that. And that's where it starts, so Bolivar'
s is going to pass from handto hand, in Paris. Not so
much there. That was like amonth before the other day we went to
see her with Jaime, with Maymanand everything and we saw her I was
going to take a picture of thissheath and we had to take a picture
of her. Well chévere to accompanythe publication of the chest, because it
(15:52):
came back about the two days thatthere was the photo and we hadn'
t done it, we hadn't spent it there screwing with ernesto and
we hadn' t done it.Then he didn' t get curious.
Oh, he gave me, I' d seen him, bravo, and
that day if he was upset andI swear to you, I' ve
got him by the first hour tomorrow. That' s how he wants eight
of the morning to be given tohim, I told him and we went
(16:17):
we bought a map of Latin America, in Danarambo and there we were a
map that we arrived, we putleftover of the cartons that we carried to
stick on the wall had left usand erresto and I say there we got
nothing wrong. We put that sheathon it and we put it on the
bottom of it and he took amachine gun that Bainman had brought us for
(16:40):
that, for the photo and Itook the picture. I went to the
thread and in the thread lab Irebelled the copy I made several copies and
burned the negatives and took the copies. Oh, that' s a line
I want. He took them all, I mean, they' re really
good. I don' t knowwhat. I see what we catch and
say the me, but I followedthem there. We were leaving a reasonable
(17:02):
time to turn off the sheath andthe news and boom of the thing to
go, so we could move it. And so it was. Then it
was called ar Gemiro Plaza Yareemiro isa chess player. Then he was very
close to Boris de Greve, metoo, but that was another origin in
the friendship go Boris was more ofa family of the bass. With my
(17:22):
family. They were my brother's companions, my two brothers were going
to have lunch at the house Sometimesthey got there and all Leon was very
dear to my sister and to us. He was a very kind guy.
The old man as a lion,he had that mess too. Then he
(17:42):
lived in a chaotic disorder. Thebooks kept them on the floor, they
threw them out, so I knewwhere I had them, but in a
bookhouse, on the cabbage floor,then put a sword in any sheath.
That was not noticeable from the amountof pods where the poet León de Grey
(18:03):
lived, in the Santa Fe neighborhood. There, after the sword is in
Ernesto' s house using already passesto the house of the poet León is
Zendoya Zendoya, Boris de Grege Itis the son of Leondrido de León was
for him also died the master ofadres, international master, a very famous
guy. And why Jaime Beynman decidesto keep the sword there. Well,
(18:30):
because somehow, León de Graves isas iconic as the sword, or let
' s say he' s alsoa character and that in the guard,
because he was very interesting too,but it was also because, because they
were above the good and the mare, it was very difficult for them to
(18:51):
be put in prison, to listento torture. Now they did suspect them
because a moment came to me theyhad me very, very close. One
night I went to Moris as badas my brother, I came to hide
them from me because it was quiet. Come boom and we started drinking wine
(19:11):
and talking and I stayed there.I hid there. I knew the sword
had a lion, but Boris didnot know that I had taken him out
and knew nothing about the story.One night he told me, he gave
me an adhesion computer and told meto practice because tomorrow he threw him a
game Half a day when he comesto lunch read ready and Boris didn'
t arrive. No, no,no, no, no, no,
(19:32):
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no Came in the evening with aclub party, day of adre from
Denmark, Federation of Aderez, somethinga lot of guys came in and with
girls. There' s the ladiesof the guys. I hid I went
into the room of the service,which was where I was sleeping. Ton
came to Bori, I knew brother. That' s where I double-
(19:52):
winned the Wlevon game because she's gonna wake up at lunch. He
told me he doesn' t knowwhere. I had lunch at the Hulevon
Brigade I was caught here at thedoor. When he went out for breakfast,
they grabbed him. I know thatif we were brought up young to
both of us and there the liganzowouldn' t have been any different.
He already took him away and questionedhim all day, very cordial, very
(20:14):
then we had the party. Hewas carrying people to get me out.
From there, and about 2: 00 in the morning, the guys went (20:17):
undefined
out for coffee and let' sgo. I grabbed my pods and threw
them out. Boris did not livewith lions and the spast where lion and
sword were hidden, so that ifthey came to look for her, they
could not find her. No,if they' d searched, they'
(20:38):
d find her. I wasn't wrapped up in some sort of roll
of something and put it on topof a dresser and nothing else, it
wasn' t stored. And notall wrapped up in something like that,
in a roll of paper or something. As a result of everything that'
s going on, then you sayI' m leaving the country and I
(20:59):
have to go if that' swhere I was ordered to get lost.
I had marginalized myself. The lemenwasn' t militating for long. I
was outcast. When the chase started. Baitman told me to tell him he
told me to tell him to goaway, he can' t eat it.
He was very afraid that they wouldtake the sword. You know,
I bought a ticket, I tooka plane and went to Ecuador. In
(21:22):
other words, I went to pasture, because he saw a grass, he
had people and he helped me andeverything was very dear people who were not
of the em Also, then therewas a companion, a very important pasture.
Ademans was him and he had meall ready to take me out for
Ecuador. And that morning he calledmy brother and gave him to tell him
(21:44):
not to come back, so becausehere the weather is I don' t
know how and told him it wasthat they were waiting for me there at
the airport, but I was alreadygone if he helps on the plane.
When that call and the plane couldnot land for bad weather and went back
to Kali and mouthed again on July11, nineteen hundred and seventy- six
died the Master Lion of Grave Yesand Bayman or Bateman, as we know
(22:07):
him, He gives the command thatthe sword take her to his house,
where he was also with Batman.We tell him the ones we met many
years ago. The rest we callBateman Batman, because one day a journalist
read Beyman, not Wateman. Helikes to be called Baeitman, but I
like to be called Bateman. Thesword is then moved where some friends of
(22:29):
Bateman, who is Valentina saen ifelvira ortiz, that is, begins to
spin. Batman starts moving her aroundin different places, because the detectives were
already following the traces of the sword. Yes, also had Teresita Gómez dians
A, the pianist the best pianistof this payo who is still alive continent.
I mean, she had it fora while. I think he kept
(22:52):
it there on the bench where hesat to touch, but he was aware
that it was Bolivar' s swordor they just told him to keep us.
This. No. No, no, no, that wasn' t
what we were doing and delivering something. We said these are weapons and keep
them. Custody. Really yes,never, because it was like the type
of tromp can put us before weknow what they were guarding. And precisely,
(23:19):
Teresita Gómez was one of the artistsinvited to play in the possession of
President Gustavo Petro. August seven,two thousand twenty- two. He played
this melody of Julio Jaramillo towards Calvary. They also say that the sword was
(23:42):
for a time abandoned in a laneand then buried in a farm in Albana,
in Cundinamarca. Yeah, I thinkhe did. I don' t
remember well. It was if GaimeEsmeralda' s wife, maybe someone had
it. Yeah, she was carryingit in the trunk of the car.
There comes another historical fact or inthe 19th EMS that in the seizure of
the Dominican embassy and there it issaid that the sword then in that fact
(24:07):
is delivered to an ambassador of Cuba. The ambassador of Cuba was created as
the order of guardians of the Sword, who were elected twelve people in common,
but who also had other well-known ones, such as Fiel Castro,
Marto Rijos, the mothers of thePlaza de Mayo, José Figueres,
Ferrero, Monseñerón, Sergio Méndez,Eduardo galeano until Mario Benedetti, who were
(24:27):
like depositaries who trusted so that theywould keep the sword. Yeah, I
' m sure it is. AntonioNavarro Wolf, one of the founders of
the 19th century, remembers how thetransfer of Bolivar' s sword was.
Yeah, well, some fellows gotinto Bolivar' s racito. I'
m tied up. Jaime Bateleban consideredyou to be the best to kick her
(24:51):
out of the padís, he pickedthem up and, I repeat, asked
the Cubans. They kept it foryou, took it and threw or lowered
you from Panama. They forgot andtook her to Juba. When they saw
the invasion not being meditated, Panamawas on the sword. That' s
when I gave you up It wasprefinitely getting into the diplomatic validity, and
the sword finally started on the bade. In January of one thousand nine hundred
(25:11):
and ninety- one, following thepeace accords and the laying down of arms.
The 19th edition asks for the BolivarSword, which was in Cúcuta and
is initially received in Venezuela. Mariobrought her from Boba and there in Venezuela
and we were after two Andrés Pérezand Abril already called you from other side
people and I then in a protocolact on January thirty- one, nine
(25:33):
hundred and ninety- one, thesword is back by Antonio Navarro Wolf,
to the same place where our interlocutorCarlos Sánchez Méndez, protagonist of the robbery
of the Sword of Bolivar, oneof the survivors and authors of this historic
assault on the Quinta de Bolívar,was extracted. Fifty years ago he was
named one of the depositaries of thesword. A little while ago they gave
(25:57):
me a dip the plume, theSword Guardian. It was given to me
by the comrades who entered even laterby founders. I don' t know
how many we' ll give,how many initial founders they were. I
don' t know. I thinkabout twenty later that grew up and with
the NAPO. If the NAPO thinggrew, it was fundamental. That was
(26:18):
one of the successes the em hadwas the alliance with ARAPO. Petro is
a product of the m At firsthe did not want to accept it because
he thought it took away votes andwhen he discovered that it gave him votes,
then he again recognized the sheath andhe entered after that time he is
(26:41):
already a member of the half nineteenGustavo Petro, which he began in Zipakirado,
where he lived. He was oneof the activists in the Zipaquiras and
there he was to see bustamante whowas founder of the em Amas. After
Patracio and left for the right,the arepa was turned and they built the
Simón Bolivar neighborhood in Zipaquira. Itis a neighborhood built by the m with
(27:02):
the people who live in the neighborhood. Gustavo Petro was not a guerrilla either.
Let' s say he wasn't military, no, he wasn
' t military. He was apolitician, more activist, ideologist, his
work in Zipaquira and putting him intosomething else could hurt him from work,
so he didn' t do that. He was there. That was his
(27:22):
political work. He was very young. I also believe when the sword was
almost a child. I think andthen it' s just that he'
s been a very smart guy.I mean, I' m terrified,
because to get there, you haveto be very smart, because all the
sticks on the wheel that got youand you couldn' t stop anything.
(27:44):
This sword has so much history thattoday will add one more to why it
took so long. Tar arrived atthis square. Obviously, on August 7,
the two thousand twenty- two possessionwhere Gustavo Petro also marks a milestone
in the history of the sword,because it is the symbol of the M
nineteen, the Sword of Bolivar,when President Ordena must bring the sword,
(28:08):
that is, we fought and achieveda goal that was not for weapons.
With the weapons to power it wasone of the mottos of the 19th EM.
They could never take power for guns. They take it democratically. And
that day, when President Petro ordersto bring the sword, he did what
the 19th wanted to be in powerdemocratically now and the symbol the olive spa.
(28:32):
Yes, I did, I feltthat we were reaching the end,
because the ultimate goal, the strategicgoal, but not yet because we have
the Government and the Government is notthe power. Look at all the problems
they put on Petro using the powerthey have, is that they have it
(28:55):
two hundred years ago. We cannotexpect a democratic revolution like this that is
wanting or wanting to do, tobe released in this way, is a
revolution that is made in the conscience, not by arms, not by defeat,
but by reflection, by conscience.It' s a change of consciousness
(29:15):
and it' s very difficult.There is a paradox between the Fundación del
em nineteen of what we are talkingabout the fifty years of the extraction of
Bolivar' s sword and what iscoming now, because the m nineteen is
born into the peace process. Putdown the guns. In a thousand nine
hundred and ninety. We still seethe flags of the 19th Lem, of
(29:37):
people who are still militants of aparty that does not exist, but who
have achieved power. That Lem nineteenmade some mistakes that also led to his
disappearance, the murder of José raquelMercado, the seizure of the Palace of
Justices, errors that, in away, helped to blur that image of
the 19th and his disappearance. I' m not really sure about that.
(29:57):
You know why this country can standany sheath. But if it was a
mistake, if it was mistakes,it is obvious. I don' t
agree very much with the market.It seems to me that they opened a
left guerrilla by shooting a poor blackworker. That doesn' t have a
presentation. That confuses and that wasmy debate, but they put him to
(30:19):
the vote and won those who wantedto shoot him and shot him. And
that was a mistake. And theseizure of the Palace of Justice was also
a mistake. But I also sawa trap. That was induced by the
military. They knew there was goingto be that shot and they did everything
to make it happen. And wecan say that there is practically the end
(30:41):
of the 19th M. As such. I believe that the 19th M has
not had an end and people believein MS. People want it. I
believe that Petro is where he isalso for the 19- year- old
EM, not just for Petro's sake Petro has all the merits and
he' s the very smart guy. What will happen with the sword of
Bolivar when Gustavo Petro finishes his mandate, that sword that is there in the
(31:06):
house of Nariño, that accompanies him, which can happen after the end of
that mandate, on August 7 ofthe two thousand twenty- six. I
don' t think it' sgonna happen much, but it depends on
who happens to Petro. If it' s the right, I think it
pays them, they burn it,it doesn' t melt it, no,
there' s nothing. But ifit' s someone from the historic
(31:26):
pact, I think there' sno problem with that. That' s
a problem you should have taken intoaccount. This is when peace was discussed
with the Government. We must haveasked for a sword for us, but
it was very difficult. It wasalso like putting obstacles there to the lucidity
that dialogue required. What you meanis that when it is filmed, it
(31:47):
passes there in the cape in Marchof nine hundred and ninety, the m
nineteen must have asked the sword ofBolivar to have worn it as one of
the symbols. Of course, ofcourse, it was a symbol that we
owe ourselves and had been able todo. Inclus there are colleagues who have
projects. Well, we can't say goodbye to Don Carlos Sánchez Méndez,
(32:07):
one of the survivors of the 19themedia that worked Bolivar' s sword
of the fifth here in Bogotá.Without talking a bit about you as one
of the most important film photographers Colombiahas ever had. Brother of that great
director of cinema, also Pepe Sánchez, you were also a filmmaker and participated
(32:28):
in many Colombian series, in manyfilms that remain of all that, that
remains of television series like Don ChincheRomeo and Buceta, the inn that you
also made as productions like the peopleof the Universal, Colombia and Dreams and
many other documentaries Colombian drem the peopleof the universal. There is another one
called three scapulars that did not havea commercial diffusion. It is rather cinema
(32:52):
art is like the position of someoneand in front of peace, in front
of war. Rather, the photographscame to my family before I supported my
family and all my brothers, whoall learned photography. Not my sister,
but my two brothers, Miguel andPepe, if they learned, were good
photographers. My dad had a studiodowntown and he had a lab in the
(33:15):
house when I was about six yearsold, and then he would take me
and sit there in a high butacoand sink copies into the fixer. He
would reveal them, vote the guarantorand I with a stick one day copy
and he was teaching me. Iwas learning, I started doing photography and
(33:37):
at that time there was a boomin Latin American political cinema and then we
made a political film group here.Pepe Sánchez, your brother, knew that
you were in the middle nineteen,that you had participated in the events of
the extraction of the Estada de Bolívarin the fifth. The only one in
the family I knew was Pepe.My family didn' t know. Later,
Pepe knew if he knew he thoughtvery much but God is she waiting
(34:00):
to see if he came or becausehe was the sheath, he kept the
secret. He was in trouble becauseof that. Pepe Sanchez never chased him.
No, no, he had troublewith a documentary he made about the
fares when it wasn' t thefargas. It was the peasant movement,
the small river bombing, so Italywas a year earlier and the following year
(34:21):
bombarding a Chichi River and Pepe wasthere filming with two Frenchmen who had sent
me, Joori Sevens Yorisivellseyra, avery important documentaryist who documents all the wars.
He was in Vietnam, he wason the sides, in Cambodia,
of those short films we watch inblack and white when Mariylan Dances was going.
(34:43):
Many of those may be the onesthat were recorded at that time.
There wasn' t much film.There is no shooting interview Piu, where
the milk guy also Vainas to thebourgeois press. Later, when he'
s already beginning to be the greatdirector, the great actor. He never
had a problem, no, never. Never. No, he never had
(35:04):
a problem. No. I'm not doing it anymore. But to
my dad if they bothered him alittle bit they would go to his photograph
and ask Vainas and Don Carlos.Thank you very much, very kind for
telling us so much about this story, about your personal life as well but
what has been that meaning of Bolivar' s sword. Fifty years later.
(35:24):
Yeah, thank you so much forthe interview. I also hope it will
be useful.
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